The Bossticks - Chris Harrison & Lauren Zima - The Real Bachelor Story & Life After

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

#675: Today, we're sitting down with Chris Harrison, former host of multiple Bachelor franchise reality TV shows, and Lauren Zima, comedian, journalist, and former TV host for Entertainment Tonight. We have a conversation about everything that happens behind the scenes of reality dating shows, how reality TV has evolved since the very first season of The Bachelor, and the original idea behind the show. We delve into their love story, how they began their careers, and the loss behind the art of true journalism. To Watch the Show click HERE To connect with Chris Harrison click HERE To connect with Lauren Zima click HERE To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Beis Beis has thought of everything you could ever want in a piece of luggage...360 degree gliding wheels, a cushioned handle, built-in weight indicator, washable bags for your dirty clothes, and all the interior pockets you need to keep organized. Go to beistravel.com/skinny for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Sun Bum Visit sunbum.com and use code SKINNY15 at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated organic formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Receive 15% off your purchase at cymbiotika.com/SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Squarespace From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business. Go to squarespace.com/skinny for a free trial & use code SKINNY for 10% off your first purchase of a website domain. This episode is brought to you by LMNT LMNT is a tasty electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. It contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio: 1000mg sodium, 200mg potassium, and 60mg magnesium. Get a free sample pack with any purchase at drinkLMNT.com/SKINNY Produced by Dear Media

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slash IRL slash. That's dearmedia.com slash irl slash. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the The ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. If you're just searching for that fame thing, whether you're an influencer or whatever,

if you're not like creating something, you're trying to share, it doesn't work or it feels really empty, really fast, and it can't sustain itself. But that was, you know, yeah, the working towards not fame but success, I think connected us really early on. I love what I do. I've always loved what I've done. But, yeah, I mean, starting out, I slept on the floor of the stuff. sports office because I would work the Friday night, high school football show. And then I would

spend the night and I had four sports cast starting at 6 a.m. I would edit, produce, write my own shows, do the shows, do your own makeup. You know, as soon as weather came on, you knew you had five minutes before you were on. And that was life. And it was awesome. But flash forward 30 years, and I'm doing The Bachelor, the biggest, you know, network show, it's as high as you can possibly get. I'm sleeping in a closet. Today, we're sitting down with Chris Harrison, a former host. of multiple Bachelor franchise reality TV shows and his wife, Lauren Zima. She's a comedian, journalist, and former TV host for entertainment tonight. We go all over the place. So we talk about what happens behind the scenes of reality dating shows, how reality TV has evolved since the first

season of The Bachelor, and the original idea behind the show. We talk about how to win The Bachelor, the evolution, how Chris got started in TV, how Chris and Lauren met, and her career. And her career evolution with journalism. Fun fact, we did a swap on their podcast. So Michael and I were interviewed by them on After the Final Rose podcast. Go check that out. On that note, Chris Harrison and Lauren Zima. Welcome to The Him and Her show.

This is the skinny confidential, him and her. This is going to be the most unforgettable, amazing, captivating podcast yet. I have Chris Harrison here and his lovely wife, Lauren Zima. Welcome to the show. Thank you. You left out dramatic. Oh, dramatic. Can you do it? Actually, can you enter the podcast? This will be the most dramatic podcast ever. Which is also the name of our podcast. So it's a really helpful plug. That was a nice, easy plug. Thank you guys. Four people are here. One will be leaving brokenhearted. Oh, God. In the back of a limo, crying. Let's make that come true. Let's deliver on one of your

lines for once and someone be in tears by the end of this. Let me tell you something about my wife. She firmly believes without a doubt that she could go on the Bachelorette and win the entire thing. It's a game. She literally, what are you winning? It's not, it wouldn't be about for me, like, winning the guy. I just, I think there's a full strategy. So like at the end, you would just, you'd get that proposal and you would just drop the ring and just walk up like, in your face. I won this thing. No, I would have, I would have Bethany Frankel situation. Like, I would have, like, my water that we're going to launch.

Like, sipping it. Or, like, you know, remember Shane Lomas had, like, the huge sunglasses? Yeah. Remember she used to wear those huge sunglasses? And when she was wearing them when I was little, I'd be like, she's got to launch a sunglass line. Like, I'd be content marketing for the bigger picture. You were doing this as a child?

Oh, that's, I loved branding. She actually believes that she can edge out all the other women. So what's the strategy? The strategy is you can't pop your puss the first night. Okay. But you can't pop your puss in real life, too? Can I get too excited? Can I ask the judges, can I get a definition of what that?

Is I just putting it all out there? I mean, that's the name of your new reality show that you're coming back with. Pop the puss? Pop the puss. Popping the puss is getting too excited too quick. Yeah. You got to, you want to fly into the radar. But here is the caveat to your dreams.

producers. We're going to get to the bottom of Lauren. We're going to push you. And if you're not, if you are playing the game and you're not playing it the way we want, we're going to make life very difficult on you. And they've been doing this for a long time. We're going, we're undefeated. I'm game. I'm game. I'm game. I still think all. That thing is if you will lean in. I'll lean into, no, I would definitely lean into using the producers to the advantage and doing what they needed. Right. You would be good. think you're savvy enough. I think that people get too stuck in the mud and the drama and the minutia. You got to be, you got to have big vision. I think what you just said is smart that you would align with the producers. I think when people try to break apart, the smart ones do. It doesn't

work out well. But wait, Michael, you just said, did you just ask how many women think they could? And I want to know that too. Like, how many people went on the show? How many everybody who's ever been on a reality show ever thinks they're going to come off like the hero, like, oh, I'll never be that person. I'll never do this. I'll never do this. I'll never be seen as this type of person. And you will. I don't need to be the hero. I'll be the villain. You be the villain. Okay. I'll be what it takes. The villain's not going to win though, probably. Okay. But then maybe that I'll be like, I won't be. I don't need to be the hero that's like the sweet girl. The thing is you want to be good enough TV. Okay. You're right. Fly under the radar. Don't pop the push night one. But at some point you got to pop a little. And pull that clip, Carson. And yeah, you.

You work with the producers. Don't try and be an enemy of the state and try and fight the system because the system will always win because it's their show. Yeah. The editors, the producers are always going to have final say. Who's someone who fought against the producers? Kelly Flanagan from Peter Weber's season comes to mind for me. She was always, remember how she just laid down? Like, she just took naps.

She just was not. I don't think she, I can't remember what Kelly's story of coming on to the show was, but I remember thinking, I don't know why she's here, you know? Yeah. One Pablo. Oh, okay. Kind of bucked the system and the system turned against him. Oh, so what happened there? How did that go? It was the first time that they turned against a lead and they decided we're just going to not make him the golden boy.

We're going to just show him as he is and it didn't come off well. You want the Bachelor of Bachelorette to be seen as perfect. This person that everyone in the Americas will be willing to leave everything to fall in love with. As the show evolved, did you guys need or did they need to start kind of move? moving away from that picture perfect vision to keep it interesting? Or is it? Well, they had to because we stopped being able to cast those people, right? The idea of the show was Andrew Firestone. You know, where in the world will you have the opportunity? Air to an American fortune. Right. Aaron Berge even, who, you know, was one of our earlier who owned a bank.

Even to the point of Chris Sol's farmer, you know, he's this very successful farmer in Iowa. and if it weren't for the show, you would not, you know, this guy wouldn't find love. He said, it was the diamond in the rough. That was the idea of this fairy tale. At some point, I don't know, just casting wise, we stopped casting quality people of that ilk, where it was no longer the diamond in the rough. And it was like, he's an influencer who hasn't really worked in six years. He's in tech.

And his name is Michael Boston. He does a podcast. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, gosh. You know, the fairy tale. He's in sales. Yeah, it was harder and harder to sell this fairy tale. And I've talked to people that have been on the show since I have left.

And they're like, yeah, you know, he doesn't have a job. And there's not much to offer. And why am I putting myself out there for this? And so now you just have these influencers that are on for someone who's unemployed. And it's not that attractive. And they just want followers. Right. Can you educate me?

because I am maybe not as well versus all of you on this. The early shows, the early days, how many of those relationships actually like stayed and stable and made? Not many. Not many. Trista? Yeah, Tristan Ryan. Boy, we hung our hat on Tristan Ryan. And then we got to Sean Lowe. And we're like, finally we have someone to hang our hat on with Sean Lowe. And he was another good one where he was still in that golden age of just had a great guy, really true conservative faith-based dude that football player yeah football player from kansas state and and so that those those relationships we weren't great at fostering you know we had a great show idea the producers like okay we got this great show and they did it was a phenomenal groundbreaking concept for television and it changed the

genre but what we weren't great at is being therapist we weren't we weren't creating a great environment for people to stay in love the idea of the show was fall in love and then the show ended and we're like, well, we need to facilitate these relationships and help them stay together. And we weren't great at that in the beginning. We got better over time. I want to go back before all of this. We just were on you guys' podcast and you talked about how when you were a little boy, you were narrating your brothers playing sports. Annoying as shit.

You wanted to be the host at the talent show. I would love for you each to tell your stories of how you guys got interested in hosting. separately and doing what you're doing before all of the glamour. We came about it in very different ways, which we talked. We just had this conversation the other day because I don't know if my path makes sense anymore. The way I used to tell people to get in this business is I went through the local news world.

I went to college, played soccer. I was a good soccer player. Not great. I was good. Got a scholarship. And when I was in school, I found mass comm and media and TV. And I had a guy there reach out to me and say, hey, I'm living. looking for someone to do play by play for the basketball team. I went to Oklahoma City University,

really small NAA school in Oklahoma City. And I started doing play by play for my basketball team and just, I don't do drugs, but it was like drugs. As soon as that hit my veins, I'm like, this is what I meant to do. I no longer cared about soccer. I no longer cared about that path. And this is all I really wanted to do. And I became a sportscaster for KW TV in Oklahoma City, the local CBS affiliate. I was a weekend morning guy. Then I became the third. guy on the team, the reporter. Then I took over the weekend, the number two spot. And I was working my way up and just wanted to move back home to Dallas, which is where I'm from and be a sportscaster. And I was on the road to doing that when I got a call to move out to L.A. and start

up a horse racing network for all things. And when I got to L.A., this whole world opened up. And I was so green and so naive. And I think I always say, you know, desperation is the world's worst cologne. When you're desperate and you're in Hollywood, you reek of it, right? You have this desperate. Like, I want to be an actor. And I had a good gig. I was making what I thought was a crap ton of money doing this horse racing thing.

So I just started auditioning for stuff. I was doing TV shows. I did movies. I was having so much fun. And I think because, A, I wasn't desperate and I was a fresh face. I started getting hired for all kinds of stuff. And I did a game show, did a home and garden show called Designers Challenge that did really well. Did a mall, was it mall masters at Mall of America and Minneapolis did that?

So did a bunch of stuff. And then The Bachelor came around. And I got that gig. And I was like, but it wasn't The Bachelor. It was just a reality show. No one had heard of reality TV. Survivor had just started when I got the gig. And, you know, you look back on it and you think, oh, my God, that was groundbreaking.

it was not at the time. But I will tell you as a little girl, I remember tuning into the first season of The Bachelor. Remind me who the first one. Alex Michelle. Alex Michelle. You may have not even tuned into the first. A lot of people think. I did.

I did. I can picture it. And I remember that the show was really avant-garde. And I don't know how I knew that as a little girl, but there was a- Well, because what else besides Survivor was similar to that? Yeah. Survivor was a game show. Survivor was groundbreaking, but it came out of Eco Challenge, which was a brilliant show that was on Discovery or something like that.

Burnett had done. And then he got Survivor on the air. He shopped it around town. Of course, the famous stories, no one wanted it. And he paid for it himself, which is why he made a butload of money because he owned, it was a timeshare, right? And so he owned the advertising. And so Survivor was on, but it was a game show that we could all understand, right?

It was groundbreaking, but understandable because it was a game. The Bachelor was no longer a game. There was nothing on the line. we weren't offering you a million dollars. We offered you nothing, in fact. The whole catch was, it was like Seinfeld. The show's about nothing. You were at the end left with,

are you going to choose love? And that's it. Camera stop, game over. You got a ring. Yeah, but there's no house. There's no million dollars. There's no, it's love. Yeah, that's it.

But people love, love. Is that important enough? And the answer was yes. We all have an insatiable appetite for love. You're right. You were asking that question. And the answer was, yes, everybody, like, that's, everybody's ultimate goal, right, is true love. I want to get back to that chapter, but I want to hear

Lauren about how you got into what you were doing. Yeah, I think I was the kind of the turning point of what he's talking about like this local news thing, not being a path anymore. Like, I studied journalism in school. He and I both did. I went to Missou, great journalism school at University of Missouri. And we, I was in school being brought up to learn like, you're going to start a really small market and local news and then you might get to like a Dallas or a Chicago or then L.A. in New York and it's this path. But then kind of by the time I graduated, that was when the recession hit. And that was when like online video was starting, like 2009. And everything was changing. And when I graduated, I got offered a weekend anchor gig and I turned it down, which felt kind of crazy. But I was like,

I don't want to, I was young. I didn't have responsibilities to anyone. And I thought, I don't want to make this local news choice. And luckily at that time, like, I could do it and it was fine. So instead, I took an internship at Variety in L.A. And then from there, I actually realized I didn't really love L.A. as much as I thought I would. So I took this startup job back in the Midwest at a company called Newsie, which was being very avant-garde and doing only online news video. And then, long story short, entertainment tonight, which was an older school brand, came to Newsy, trying to figure out how we were making all this online news video and offered me a job on the spot. And then I moved back to LA and started working at entertainment tonight.

I was looking at the date, but you asked me like the listener. And a lot of our listeners are under the age of 25. And I say that because I'm going to tell the story about Lauren and correct me if I'm wrong. She studied television broadcasting. And I remember when we first started dating 2008, 2009, 10 around that area. I remember her getting up early and going to news stations because you had to like go and guest and do things for those stations. A lot of work. Anyways, to get a chance to be able to be put on a show or television.

And the reason I bring this up is I don't think so many, I don't think people realize how fortunate we are now to live in a time where you can get on this and potentially get the same amount of eyeballs, if not way, way more, without having the gatekeepers of a news station to get you out there. The only thing is one thing I really admire about Lauren and I went through the same path. And I think it's lost today. It's a lost art. is how to be a host, how to be an anchor, how to be a journalist. You know, we approach things

very differently than I know a lot of people do. And look, one of the jokes on my show, every year, all I created was 25 to 30 people who wanted my job and thought they could do my job as well, if not better. And I think time has now proven. That's not the case. And so they, well, no, But it's, you know, people didn't work at it. They had no, they didn't have the talent and the skill set. They just saw what we were doing. They see what you guys are doing. Like, oh, that sounds fun. I want to do that. I think it's a job that can look really easy. Like, nobody looks at a neurosurgeon and thinks, oh, I could do that. But this is a job where you can make it look really easy. And he made it look really easy. The most powerful people, though, do make

make things look effortless. Yeah. There's an art to making things look effortless. Yeah, I think it's worth remembering any time you see, I think I believe this about everything, any successful field when you look at the people on the top of their game, there are probably some areas where like it is an quote unquote, like it is easy to talk on a podcast. It is not easy to get to the top of the podcast. It's a different thing. And whenever I see that, I'm like, there is some skill here that people are being naive about, right? I think one thing that connected us right from the beginning, like our first date, and probably even before we were dating when I was just interested. interviewing him, we had a mutual respect for each other. Like, we didn't know it at the time, but

neither of us got into this business wanting to be famous. We both studied and we both wanted to be successful. And I think we both wanted to be good storytellers. If you're just searching for that fame thing, whether you're an influencer or whatever, if you're not like creating something, you're trying to share or create a business as you guys have both done so well, it doesn't work or it feels really empty, really fast. And it can't sustain itself. But that was, you know, yeah, the the working towards not fame but success, I think, connected us really early on. Can you guys talk to me about the minutia of what you've built? Meaning, like, talk to me about, like, having to do your own makeup or waking up at 3 a.m.

because you have to host something. Like, I want to hear, like, the nitty gritty of what it's taken to get to the levels that you're at. Yeah, I did my own makeup on entertainment tonight for several years, and people couldn't believe that. But I did my own makeup for a while because I was technically. a digital correspondent. And then I moved up to a union job. And then I had to, like, union rules, I had to get makeup. So that was like a big deal for me. And I, yeah, I mean, but yeah, crazy hours, like your life's not your own. And there's a million harder jobs out there. I'm not curing cancer.

But like one thing that we almost, I mean, we talk a lot about how the pandemic really like helped us have a relationship. Because before that, I think our hours were so crazy. I don't think we would have had time to like actually date each other. Yeah. I mean, it's, I love, what I do. I've always loved what I've done. But yeah, I mean, starting out, I slept on the floor of the sports office because I would work the Friday night high school football show. And then I would spend the night and I had four sportscast starting at 6 a.m. And you would spend the night and get up and I would edit, produce, write my own shows, do the shows, do your own makeup. You know, as soon as weather came on, you knew you had five minutes before you were on. And that was life. And it was awesome.

But flash forward 30 years and I'm doing The Bachelor, the biggest network show, it's as high as you can possibly get, I'm sleeping in a closet. I would get dressed in a van in Thailand. You know, it's not like, oh my God, you now fly around on a private jet and you have the best. It's, trust me, if they can save $4, they're going to save $4 and you're going to get dressed in a van. So, you know, it's like people always laugh at the bachelor mansion. They asked me as like, was this really the class, the master closet upstairs where you would sleep and get just like, yeah, I would just grab a pillow and go crawl in the corner. The mansion is so much smaller than you think It's like that's the glamorous life.

And it was funny. I think Spade or somebody took over, you know, when the first year I was, I didn't do Paradise. And they thought they were going to get a big celebrity to do the show. And Spade went down there. And I had some people talk to him. And he was like, F this, man. He's like, who works like this?

I'm like, yeah, the conditions suck. We're up all night. And, you know, all night until eight or nine in the morning. And then you're two hours later, you got to be back. And so you're not sleeping. You're not eating right. You're away from your family. And again, like Lauren said, we're not digging ditches.

I've done that before and that sucks. But at the same time, the real work is never as glamorous. But the people on our show and the people probably you guys talk to sometimes, they think it'll just be fun. I just want to do the fun stuff. And it's like, okay. And look, there's some rewarding stuff and I love what we do. But it's hard work.

And it's hard to make it look good. You have to work at it. What is the off camera process? What does that look like when you're not filming? And I guess maybe not doing the quote unquote fun stuff. I mean, honestly, like Bachelor, it's a lonely existence. It was really lonely. What are you doing when you're not filming?

Nothing. You're on the road alone, you know? So I would, I would try to entertain myself. Like, I would go to soccer. I'm a big soccer fan. I'd go to soccer games around the world or I'd go to like, you know, play golf or do something. I'm in Africa, you know, during Brad Womack season. So I'm going to go on a safari.

But, you know, the first. You want on a safari alone? It was like two of us, you know, or I'd go with my hair and makeup team. You know, it's like, or wardrobe. Carrie and Gina and you're like, you see an elephant knock a tree over to get the worms underneath and your first thing is, oh, and you're reaching for your kids because you want your kid, you know, and you know, you're FaceTiming your kids back home at weird hours because they're up eating breakfast and you're just a little picture on the table. And so there's some weird lonely times. I spent

a lot of years alone traveling around the world. And again, I'm not saying, what was me? I had a great life and it gave me a wonderful life and it changed my kids' lives. But at the same time, that stuff's hard. I would go days without speaking English to anybody. Because you're just traveling, because the crew would go alone. And I would try and stay to see like my kids play soccer or lacrosse or a play or something. And I would travel alone. And you just get dropped off in the wilderness somewhere and you're just waiting to be picked up to shoot. And it's really weird. It's a weird life. Do you spend any time with the contestants when you're not filming or is it isolated where you're not really interacting with them? Not really hanging out with them. No. I mean, because they're in the

bubble and you want them to stay in the bubble. And that was our job is to create that environment and keep them in that mindset. And I could, they really hated me being around because I would break that bubble and give them kind of sign of life and hope and give them, you know, Ben Higgins talks. I could list like Ben Higgins. Bob Guinea, Andrew Firestone, all these bachelors have said to me since we've all become friends. They've said, the only reason I made it through the show was because of Chris. They're like, he was like the friend I needed. Like, Ben Higgins always tells the story of when Chris came to visit him in his hotel room. And I think Ben was like ready to quit the show.

We were in the Bahamas at a house. And you like watched a game with him or something. And he said it mentally brought him. I mean, I'm telling his story. Yeah, we just sat down to watch a football game. We just hang out. He's like, thank God. But you hung out with the leads.

I did. I would hang out with the leads. The Bachelor, the Bachelorette. I would see a lot more. The, say, contestants, the 25 or 30, I would not see them because they would use me as a trigger. Sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes emotional. So they wanted to like, when you saw me, you're like, oh shit, something's about to happen. You know, I would sometimes roll the proverbial grenade in the room of like blowing things up.

So they were very careful about they didn't want to normalize me. So it was really funny a lot of times the bachelor, the bachelorette or the contestants would fly separately. So I would be on one of those flights. Sometimes I flew with the lead. Sometimes I would fly with the contestants depending on our schedule. And oftentimes when I was with the contestants, they would, you know, all of a sudden just see me in a hat in the airport and they're like, shit, you're just normal. You're just real.

And we'd have these conversations and I'd get to know them. And I enjoyed getting to know them. I often said it wasn't until later after the show when I would see them at charity events or whatever where we would become good friends because I was used as a host and as a mechanism when I was taping the show. So it was really interesting. I have an upcoming trip that I'm packing for and I scoured the internet for packing cubes. And finally, I came across base. I mean, I've used base many times. I actually have their

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It's all in liposomal delivery. So you're eating the supplement actually like food. And that's going to be an incredible antioxidant to help your body just completely perform better. They also have an incredible magnesium L3a, night. One of the only magnesiums that crosses the blood brain barrier. It is an incredible product because, again, it is liposomal. The way that I take it every single day is I put it in my coffee. I have gotten rid of all sweeteners.

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You can save up to 15% off your subscription with our code skinny. Just go to symbiotica.com and use code skinny on your subscription order. Again, that's symbiotica.com code skinny. If you both could go back with all of the stuff that you've seen, what would you tell yourself? What do you wish you did differently or are you happy with everything? Career-wise or bachelor-wise? for both of you with your both of your careers. I think that, you know, really like sitting here talking to you guys has made me realize

like I need to go kind of back to that decision I made when I decided to not do the weekend anchor thing and to do the online thing again, like to keep embracing the change, you know, and sometimes it's a little hard because you feel like the change is happening so fast around you. But yeah, there were like, like I kind of wish I'd really leaned in. to like YouTube earlier, done some of these things earlier. And I think it's really important, like I always give this advice to say yes, like say yes to everything, especially when you're in your 20s and still figuring out who you are. And I think I did that. But like, I'm kind of trying

wanting to remind myself about it now. Like keep going. Keep like lean into all the new things are happening. Because sometimes the new things scare me. Gary Vee, I think is like such a good person to look to because he's always like yelling at you and being like, like he told everyone to get on TikTok like seven years ago. And he's like, I fucking told you to you to get. I'm like, he's right. Like, if we had all gotten on TikTok seven years ago, that would look different. He's, like, so, like, good at adapting. So that is really good advice.

Yes. I don't think I would change anything. I think I would tell myself, I would love to have the hindsight to know your show will have the longevity. It's had. You're going to be on air for 18, 19 years. That's crazy. Because it doesn't happen.

It doesn't happen in our business. And so I played scared. And it was probably a good. thing. The people I've met that I really admire in this business, the Joan Rivers of the world, the people that had that longevity, they also played scared. When you say play scared, what do you mean by that? They always assumed everything was going away. They played to the man. Yeah, you just, well, you just, you had this fear that tomorrow it could all be taken away. You wake up and you're just like, you know, the ratings are gone. Like, you know, that, I just always had the

belief it was never promised to you. Next week was never promised to you. I would wake up and I would get the ratings on Thursday morning or Tuesday mornings when we moved to Mondays. And I just remember being, you know, used to call a line. They would have every network had a number. I would get up in the morning at 6.30 in the morning. I would get the fast nationals and I'm writing them all down. I mean, every week. I had, I kept the papers for forever. I know the ratings forever. I still do this because now it's online. I get the ratings every day. What's the best season that's ever done? The best show, the single show, was the end of Aaron Bergey season, the phenomenal. Nali did 33 million viewers.

And he married, what is the girl? I forget the girl. They didn't get married. They got engaged. And then, but the biggest overall season was that we went from Aaron Bergey to Trista's season. Yeah. And that was from start to finish the highest ratings.

You know why? I think it's because we got, didn't we get to know Trista on another season before? Yeah. She came out of Alex Michelle season one. That's, that's the season. That's what I knew. I was like, how am I not remembering Trista came out of Alex's. And that was really rare because we never, you know, we weren't doing that back then.

Alex Michelle, Aaron Berge, Bob Genie was kind of our first repeat because he came off the Bachelorette with Trista Wren. Right. And he was kind of that lovable, you know, and Bob will kill me, but he was this kind of heavy, overweight guy. And he was mad because he's like, well, my foot was in a boot. I played football at Michigan State. And I was heavy because I was in a boot.

Oh, he was like, lovable dad. Yeah, but he was had dad bod. He's like, I don't have a dad bot. F you guys. I'm all fit. But so Bob was the first repeat guy, but Trista was from that first season. But yeah, if I could tell myself, hey, dude, relax, you're going to have longevity. You can have this show.

You're going to go for 18, 19 years. But I probably would have said no to stuff that I really jumped on. Like, I probably wouldn't have done. And I know you guys want to remember this, TV guide. I did a daily show for them. I executive produce and hosted the red carpet shows for the Grammys, Oscars and all that stuff. And I did that because I always assumed the Bachelor was waning and it would go away. And at one point, we kind of were canceled.

Lloyd Braun, who was president of ABC, this was around Dr. Travis Stork when we went to Paris. The reason we went to Paris that season was we said, F it, the show's canceled, we're off the air, let's go spend every dime we have and let's go live in Paris. And we did. And we thought the show was going to be dead. Travis Stork's season did good. Then we came back with Dr. Naval doctor. I'm my blinking on him.

Anyway, so we did this officer in a gentleman season with this naval doctor. and it did very well. And all of a sudden we were back. And we're like, crap, here we go again. Wait, what's the, what's the guy that's on the doctors, Travis? Okay, okay. So it was after that. It was a naval guy.

Yeah, the season after. Will you tell us who it was, Carson? That's going to kill me. Yeah. Andrew Baldwin. Andy Baldwin, Dr. Andy Baldwin. Right. Is he on the doctors too?

He was a swimmer at Duke. He was a naval doctor. It was great. It was a phenomenal season. So we did that. And the best thing I remember about that season, I don't know why this sticks out. We had them drive up in this amazing sports cars. It was like a silver Lamborghini or something.

And we shot it in just above Hollywood. And we were on this hill. And he got out of the car looking all studly. And he got out. And I guess he forgot to set the break. And so he got out in the car just started rolling backwards. And Big Polly, if anyone remembers Big Polly, he was the guy who was, he would come get the suitcases from time to time.

He was the Grim Reaper. And he would like, literally was holding the car from like sliding down the driveway. But Andy Baldwin did well and that resurrected the show. I do think in this business you have to be okay with big ups and downs. And no, it doesn't mean it's over. Like, you know, we live in this. Everything's really fast now. But like, I think about Robert Downey Jr. That man's career was like no one would hire him in the 90s because he'd had all these addiction issues and been in and out of jail. And no one would hire him. No one would insure him. And then he became Iron Man. And it's like now we all love him. And we get a two minute award show speech from him. And we're all such. Look at Rob Lowe. Yeah. I mean, that. I mean, I don't know if you guys are old enough to know the scandal. Go Google Rob Lowe and his scandals. And now he's one of the most beloved kind of middle-aged figures. And you guys think John Stamos is handsome?

I read Roblo's book too. Rob, Rob, you can come on the podcast if you want. Look into his eyes. Rob. I dare you. Rob, Roblo can come on the podcast. It's an open invite. I told this story.

I was back when I was single and I went on a date and I would escape L.A. With Roblo. And I went up, I wish. I would date Roblo in heartbeat. No, I was in Montecito because I would get a date. out of L.A. because I didn't want to be seen. And I had a blind date with this woman who lived in Montecito. And I met Rob Bo, because he had an ABC show at the time. Because he lives up there. Yeah. And we were friendly. And enough like if we saw each other, you'd give each other the bro hug.

And so he sees me from across the room. And we kind of do the bro nod, you know, and he gets up. And I was like, oh, like, don't walk over here. Like the last thing a dude wants next to me is Rob Lo. It's like, yeah, I'm like, I don't want, like, I don't want my date to see Roblo. Yeah. Like Patrick Dempsey walking over. I'm like, dude, stay away. Yeah. No, I don't blame me.

How do you think I look now? You're looking great. But like Roblo is like Roblo is Roblo. I just felt like the rest of the dinner. She's like, oh. But you're not Robloo. Yeah. He's right there.

Yeah, he's right there. How did you guys meet amongst all of this? You said you met five years ago or you started dating five years ago. We started dating a little over five years ago. But had known each other. professionally for a couple years before. Like a couple years. I was on entertainment tonight and I covered the Bachelor. And by the way, here's the thing. I think I actually had Becca Tilly, God lover, said to me at our wedding, oh my God, Lauren, you like made every girl's dream come true.

Like you grew up watching The Bachelor and then you married the host. And I was like, I did not grow up watching The Bachelor. I was a housewives girl. I still am. And the only reason I started covering The Bachelor was because when I got to entertainment tonight, and this is a say yes thing, no one was covering it. And I said, well, I can cover it. Like, I can watch the show and figure it out and cover it. So I knew nothing about the show. And there is, as he's sitting here talking, there's all this bachelor history. Like, you grew up why, I don't know any of these people. I started watching it, I think with Chris Solza season, maybe, or maybe Caitlin Bristow's, I don't know. So I interviewed him for three years or so. And I was married. He was dating someone else. Like,

and we only ever saw each other on red carpets, and that's the only conversation we'd ever had. And then we both became single. Then I did an interview with him, and I was like, was he flirting with me? Were you? Oh, yeah. Wait, but be honest. You heard it here first. Was there a spark the first time you guys met?

No. Nothing. No. She, you know, and not to be a dick. We were both so quickly like, no. No, but no. Absolutely not fully uninterested. I don't mean to treat people like this, but like you, when you're, you know, and not to be a dick.

doing the show, thousands of interviews. I've done thousands and thousands of interviews about the show. Like rinse and repeat. Yeah. And you would just, but I will say, I knew she was different only as a journalist. And I really respected her. And I looked, I remember looking forward to her interviews. Because when you do thousands of interviews, 99% of them are just so, like you said, rinse and repeat. They don't challenge you. They don't listen. They're just asking these questions on the paper and they're moving on and you're just saying, regardless of what they ask, you're giving the answer that you want to give and you're moving on. Lauren would listen and push you and do call, really call back to stuff you've said. I'm like, so I knew I had to be on my game when Lauren Zima came from

entertainment tonight. And I really enjoyed those interviews from journalists to journalists, because that was my background too. And I'm like, oh, this girl's good. And but I knew nothing of her. And I never, you know, as soon as we were done, you have a handler who's next, next, next. and you're just kind of moving on. And so I never saw her for who she is until there was one day. And we were at the studio. I took a break.

And she came out of the green room where we kept all the animals. No, all the journalists would watch the show. And I was on stage. So I came out and I was getting a tea. And she was coming out. And I didn't know why. But I found out later it was so hopefully we might run into each other

because we'd had a couple flirty moments before that. But he was really the first time. I looked at her, looked at her. And I was like, oh, damn, like, shit. Like, why have I not seen this before? Why, you know, but I didn't have those eyes on because I, I was either married or dating somebody and I just wasn't paying attention in that way, just being professional. And all of a sudden, I'm like, she's hot.

And then, yeah, okay. And we started talking. It was, I interviewed him. I thought he was a little flirty. And then truly, I was at this next taping. And I said to myself, okay. God, if he was flirting with me, I said, I'm going to go, this is a nine-hour taping, I'm going to go get a coffee at craft services right now. And if he happens to be there at this exact moment, then we're supposed to talk.

Like something's supposed to happen here. Get a little test. And he just happened to be there. And so then we had our first real conversation off of a red carpet. And then I'll be honest, I slid into his DMs. I was like, hey, so good to see you the other day. Yeah. I'm a big believer in.

Open the door. And if they walk through, keep going. I don't, like, I think it's unfair when people put the onus on other people to make the first move all the time. I think women do it with men. Like, I'm not saying, chase them. But I think open the door. Yeah.

Show interest. Let them know that there is an opening. Yes. And if, and then if he doesn't walk through, like, don't go through the door yourself. Keep going down the hallway. But if he walks through, okay. She said, hashtag send nudes. And I said, that's so adorable.

No. No, and you know what, timing, Lauren. I talk about this all the time. Timing is everything. I was at a place in my life. So was she, but I was at a place in my life. My kids were old enough because when I got divorced,

I really dove into my kids and being a dad and making sure they were taken care of. And then my profession was such a huge part of my life. I had these two boxes and that was it. I really want to be a good dad. And I wanted to be really good at hosting and I wanted to crush it professionally. And I was doing both very well. I didn't have time for that third box of myself. I knew I would. I knew I would get there. And so I dated, but I didn't really commit. And she,

we ran into each other, just kind of that perfect time of the bachelor was kind of on cruise control. I knew I, you know, killing it there. That's fine. The kids were old. They were really good people. They're both driving. They're in high school. Pretty self-sufficient, doing good there. I have time for myself now. And I'm kind of lonely. I'm like, I'm ready to like, I'm ready to put myself out there because you do. If you are single, you have to be will. to put yourself out there and truly be vulnerable in date. And so when she reached out, I was eager. And it was great timing because I was open to that. He was so deeply lonely. Yeah. Well, and I always respected, I looked forward to our interviews too because he was so good at doing an interview. Like, I knew I would get my headlines from him and my great

sound bites from him. But I think our love story is like I give the advice a lot that be open. Like, you don't know where this person's going to come from. Like, I have a friend who's single and I think she writes people off on that first look a lot. You know, it's like, she's one of those friends. She's really big on first impressions or like if there isn't the chemistry right away. He's not six three. Yeah. I'm like, we knew each other for like four years.

I mean, you guys have a similar story of you were to, you know, knew each other and then went apart and then came back. You don't know where that person's going to come from. Also, be open to not being with your type. I think there's like this thing where it's like, oh, that's not my type. Maybe you don't know what your type is and maybe your type is evolved. I think people put looks so high on the list. There's no way that if you had written down my stats and you gave it to Lauren Zima,

kind of a blonde's guy. That she would have dated me. Oh. No, older. Like, you know, I like I wouldn't have been. If you had said, okay, if we'd stopped back then and said, okay, Lauren, type of guy you're going to date. you probably wouldn't have said 50-year-old father of two.

Well, that's true. But I was always very open. I just am like a truly it's probably because like my dad died when I was younger in a very young age. I realize you don't know what life's going to throw at you. So I just was always like, because we don't know what's coming, stay open to whatever. But yeah, I mean, I have a friend who it's the same thing. She will, like, it's like if he's not a Christian doctor who she met at church.

I'm like, this is not a hallmark movie. and you're closing yourself off from a lot of potential, I think. You've narrowed it down to 0.0.01% of the population. Sarah Palin? Well, it's a really good question. I'm only dating people up in Alaska. I will tell you she is a 37-year-old virgin. So there's a lot of one on there.

But you probably didn't. Like, did you always want hair this slicked back, Lauren? I love his hair line. I tell him it looks like a mix between Teresa Juddice and Spock. What's the fucking? that thing in the Star Wars with the hair. The Widows Peak? No, the Widows Peak is the thing that curse down. Oh, the Klingon look? Is that what you're? No, I'm talking about what's the character. The character in Star Wars with the hair. The Hibaka? The one that has hair in space. Chewbacca.

No, but you know, I call me old fashion, but this is why, and on this show I've talked about, I am not a fan of any of these dating apps. And I have, we both have young sisters. And I get that this is, you know, people feel very pressured to date and meet people in this way. But what to your points you're making, I think people are first, delusional in many cases. And second, when you have applications that are all about the aesthetic first and you can quickly, ooh, that eyebrows off or that, no, or I didn't like that hair. He's, you know, not tall enough of this. You're missing potentially so much about what you actually, when you get in a relationship or really going to want. If you sit on a date and I'm looking it Lauren and I'm like yeah I can I can already be scrolling I'm already thinking about the next day I have a

question would you advise someone to where do you think people would have more success in love on a dating app or going on a reality dating show I I'm not going to poo poo on dating apps I I don't think I would say definitely not a dating show only because the percentages are so low maybe the intentions are off too well one girl one guy you know it's just yeah there's a lot to do with but Yeah, it's a numbers game. I'm a firm believer that, look, dating apps were, I know we know a lot of people who have met on dating apps. It's how quickly can you get off of that? Like when, even when LZ DM to me, I got it out of there as quick as I could. And I'm like, let's go out. Let's go have a coffee. Let's go have a drink. What'd you guys do? We went to Soho and Malibu.

Hey, and it was, we figured it would seem normal because it was like, why is the lady from entertainment tonight with the host of The Bachelor? But if you're at Soho House, it's like, oh, it's not. That's not weird. You know, they're just probably met up or talking or business or whatever. So that was our first date. She didn't love it because I talked too much. And then I later said, you asked me too many questions, Barbara Walters. And because she's interviewing. We went into interview mode. I started interviewing him and he started doing what he does and what he is doing right now, which he talks for a living. And he's supposed to give answers and talk and do all those things. And yeah, I left the date interestingly. And I don't know what.

this says about me, but I didn't really like him, but I did go in for a kiss at the end of the night. And I think it's because I thought, well, but let's see if there's a total fox. You're like, I want on my resume that I Chris, that I kissed, that I kissed Chris Harrison. Hey, we were, so we were in the parking lot at Soho House and I really liked her. I was like, really fascinated. I had dated a lot, been on a lot of dates. And I'm like, I didn't, it wasn't like, oh my God, I'm going to marry this girl, but I could tell this was different. I could tell she was different.

I was feeling different. And she, we got in the parking lot. And I knew in the business world this would be difficult for her. Not for me. Why? Because she is a journalist and she's, you mean, I know. There were some ethical questions about us dating. You know, she's not covering the White House and sleeping with the president.

But at the same time, she is covering the bachelor. And she's supposed to have kind of a journalistic integrity. And I said, look, this, you know, it's not the craziest thing in the world, but it won't. I think it was more I said. him. The perception. Well, and this is a bigger risk for me than it is for you. This is going to look like I'm trying to get ahead in my career. You're already very established. You're 17 years ahead of me in this career thing. I'm like just starting. And I was afraid of how would it look like, how will it affect my career that I've aligned myself with him and with this brand that's already

so established when like I'm still figuring out a lot of what I'm doing. Well, and the sexist double standard of who in Hollywood is going to give me a hard time for dating a hot young woman. Right. Who's going to give her a hard time for, you know, sleeping with the guy that she's interviewed. Did people give you a hard time? Well, I mean, again, I think it was helpful that, like, I had to talk to my boss about it. Yeah. And we talked through it. And they were ultimately okay with it. Again, I think it's helpful. It was entertainment news. Like, I was covering this reality show. It wasn't like whether people's water is contaminated in the Midwest, you know, no lives were at stake. But it's not like a case in Georgia where you're prosecuting the president, former president of the United States.

Yeah, that's true. I did, relevant. I did have to like sometimes say to people and I, you know, I don't, like, like truly I would, we did have to do a separation of church and state. And I would tell him, I also, I enjoyed covering the show. I was like, I don't want to know the spoilt. Like, don't tell me I want to cover it as I'm covering it. And sometimes I would stop him mid conversation because he was about to slip on something. I'm like, no, I don't, I don't want to know that because I wanted to maintain that boundary. But yeah, then we were at Soho House parking lot and I said, because of all this, I'm like, do you want to do this? And, you know, I'm like, you need to think about this if we want to have more dates and be seen. And that's when she laid one on me. And she kissed me in the parking lot at Soho House. God, I don't remember the kiss being the answer to that question. That was really dumb of me in retrospect. That was a really bold, quick answer to that question.

Did your relationship, like, take a lot of momentum quickly or was it a slow build? No. It took momentum quickly. Yeah. I think we both knew who we were. We had both been divorced. So when you find somebody you click with at that age, like I was 30. Like no bullshit.

Yeah, you just knew what you want. Well, we quickly found out we had good chemistry. From the kiss. Truly, the reason I kissed him was because I was like, I'm not totally sure about his personality, but like physically will we connect? Maybe we'll just hook up. I think I thought that to myself in my head really quick. But then on the second date, and I'm a big advocate of give people a second date,

everything changed. I think we both relaxed a little bit. First dates are weird, right? Yeah. It's so weird. It's like a job interview. It's a little tense, even though we knew each other a little and everything changed. And yeah, the momentum happened quickly.

We also talked about everything for like the next 30 years of our life on our first date. We talked about moving to Texas, which we just did two years ago. But that's cool. On the first date, it was like, do you want kids? Do you want to? And I wouldn't recommend that if you're 22. But if you're older, like, why waste time? I was like, what's your safety word?

How did you guys both have successful divorces? I don't know if we did. Is that an oxymoron, a successful divorce? I think in the scheme of divorces. Yeah, no, we had very different situations, very different divorces. Obviously, I had kids in the mix. Mine, I would say, is very amicable to the point where, you know, Lauren and she have are friendly and we'll text.

And we always put the kids first. And I will give this for my ex. She's a good mom. She puts the kids first. And if you always have them. that is your goal. You swallow a lot of pride. You're not going to win everything. You know, don't, if you can take yourself out of it, which, look, we, we still have our issues and our problems. There's a reason we got divorced. But all of us have committed and she's remarried too and

her husband does the same. And I give him kudos. The kids are first. Yeah. And so, you know, that we're going to see her this weekend because our, my, our son plays lacrosse up at TCU. So we'll go see him play. And it's mom's weekend. So we'll see her. And it's fine. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online, whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand. Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience,

and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all in your own terms. What the heck are you waiting for? If you've been listening to this show for years now or even just started, one of the major themes is to just launch. Get ready, go. stop waiting for things to be perfect. Get it out there. This podcast started out of our living room. I think we spent a maybe couple hundred bucks on equipment. Since then, it's led to a product line. It's led to a full-fledged media company. It's led to so many things, live events. And it all started from this

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And they have all sorts of blogging tools and analytics that you can use to go through all of your data and see if what you're doing is on the right path or if you need to adjust. Check it out and head to Squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to www. square space.com slash skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that is Squarespace.com slash skinny to save 10% off. Quick break to talk about element. Do you find yourself in the middle of the day feeling sluggish, tired a little out of it? Do you feel your workouts aren't as impactful as you would like them to be? Do you just feel a little bit out of it or that

you catch that kind of afternoon slump out of nowhere? It's likely because you are not hydrating properly. We've all heard about drinking a glass of water today. What's likely happening to most people is they do not have the proper electrolyte ratio in their water, which is why we love Element so much. Element comes in all these individualized packs that Lauren and I carry every day, and they have all of your electrolyte needs covered with 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, and 60 milligrams of magnesium. It contains enough electrolytes to move the needle toward each of these electrolyte goals. You're also guaranteed to find an element flavor you love. They have so many different ones. One of my favorite ones is Mango Chili, but they have a bunch of other ones, like I've said.

And the way that Lauren and I use this is every single morning when we go to the gym, we'll dump a packet of element in there, go through our workout. And then if we feel a little sluggish or tired in the middle of the day or maybe during that afternoon stretch when we're trying to get the last bit of work done, we'll take a little bit then. What I've noticed since taking element is I'm way more awake. I have way more clarity. I never feel dehydrated. I'm sleeping much better. And I don't get nearly as many headaches as I used to. I'm someone who's suffered from headaches for years.

ever since I started taking Element, they've pretty much gone completely away. Of course, Element just came up with a fantastic offer for us. Just go to drinkelement.com slash skinny to get a free sample pack with any purchase. Again, that is drink element.com slash skinny to get a free sample pack with any purchase. Enjoy. Did you guys talk about like, I mean, where you two are now? We're in very similar positions. You work together a lot. You live together. You guys have two kids together. How early on were you talking about like what you wanted your life to look like? I'm very hesitant to talk. I know that our story is not so common in the sense that like we've known each, we've known each other now longer than more than half of our entire time we've been alive, right? 12 and now are 36. But yeah, I think we've always, I think what makes Lauren and I work together is we're very open and aligned in what we both have ambition in life for. Even like not on the, even on the business stuff, but how we want to have kids and where we want to move. And we always talked about like, okay, we're going to have a life where we've bounce around, like maybe it's LA, maybe it's Texas, maybe it's somewhere else.

We, I think a lot of the stuff is easy, the other stuff is easy to figure out over time. If you're just aligned on like life's ambitions and what you actually want, you know, as parents or as entrepreneurs or as a couple. And we spend a lot of time making sure that we're talking about that a lot. I think you got to talk about the big stuff. Like our friends, I have friends who are, she's in a tough spot right now because she and her husband are married, have a kid, but they don't know where they want to live and they're in disagreement about that. And I'm like, did you guys talk about it before? She's like, I think we talked about like what our lives might look like, but didn't get as specific as where we wanted to live. What's interesting for you guys is you change.

Like obviously, I'm not even talking sixth grade. Obviously, you changed from that. But even when y'all got back together post college. Yeah. Different. Y'all are different than you are in your mid to late 30s. I mean, you've grown up and it's hard. Luckily, you guys have been able to somehow form this amazing relationship around creating businesses and you've gone on them. the same path as opposed to Lauren's going this way and Michael's going to go this way. Y'all are very fortunate in that way as you've been able to grow together. We have both probably changed even since we left California individually. I mean, before Lauren got here, I mean, I don't think she had a stake in her entire life.

Now she's a big meat eater out here. But anyway, small things. My bowl of meat. We've always been aligned on values and supported each other and the changes on those values. And, you know, even like, I'll give you an example. We work together and we tell couples all the time. maybe you start a venture together and your idea is like, hey, I want to have this small thing with five or six people and like, that's all I want and mom and pop. And the other person's like,

well, I want to go build the spaceship. You may think you want to work together, but if you're not aligned on where you want that vision to go, that's also a problem. Right. And so we get like really detailed. And whenever we talk about big decisions like, okay, does Texas make sense? Why? What would it look like? Would you be happy there? Would I be happy? Vice versa. I have a transition that I have to ask you that I have not heard you answer. Was there relief in leaving the bachelor? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it kind of like, you did it for 19 years? Not only just. There's got to be like, ugh, like, you almost like take your pants off. Do you know what I mean? Like, take your bra off. You take your bra off. You're like, your tits hang out.

You're like, I did it. I can check it. I did it the best I could. There's got to be a relief. I was ready to pop my puss. Is that the correct term? I don't think that's using it correctly. I think you're doing it. No, they're definitely. They're definitely. was a relief in that when you've done it for so long. And also, I've always loved being innovative and creating and trying new things and pushing myself. And it had become repetitive. Formulate. Yeah. It's hard to reinvent something. Like my favorite times surrounding the Bachelor were in the early days when you didn't know what a rose ceremony was. There was no such thing. We were creating it. We were creating the terminology and the words. And,

And you'd go in and say something and you're like, oh, my God, that was really stupid. Take that out. Let's try it this way. And so those were the fun days of you're building something. And we had long since moved away from that. It was fun when we started Paradise because it got to create something again or winter games or when you got to do new endeavors. I love the live shows because, again, those were always new and invigorating. So the show for me over that many years, I always called it dazed and confused where, you know,

I kept getting older. They stayed the same age because it was the same, you know, same group of 20-somethings came in and we're doing it over and over. So yeah, mentally, emotionally and I think professionally, a bit of a relief to kind of like change. Take the bra off. Yeah, take the bra off and hang my tits out. Hang your tits out. The world evolved too. And it sometimes feels like a lot of these shows, and this is my opinion, placate to what society is feeling. the one day society is right, one day it's left, one day it's here, one day it's there. And it feels like sometimes that these big corporations are like placating to like whatever the narrative is

at the moment. And that's exhausting. That's why I have my own podcast. Well, and when a show is created in 2001, 2001, 2002, it's going to be different. How much is the world changed, right? I mean, again, there was this innocence and naivete of reality TV. I mean, there was no such thing as a blog back then, much less Facebook. Then you get to Twitter. Twitter, then you get to influencers. So the world has changed so much, but when your concept and the formula hasn't changed, it's hard to keep up. Like, for example, the rose ceremony used to be such a big deal.

We would spend so much money on the cocktail party and the rose ceremony. And you realize now, 20 years later, that's not moving the needle. And you're tied to these things that are instruments of the show. So it's very difficult to evolve when, you know, you're known for something. It's like, say, you're McDonald's. That's what we were. We're the McDonald's of reality TV and you're known for this. And it's like, but we can't do this anymore.

We got to kind of ebb and flow and change with the times. Well, Andrew, you're dealing with, like, to your point, I mean, I'm speaking for you, but these are just things I've heard you say. It's you were, I know they were, you were, some producers were really trying to innovate, but you're dealing with really big corporations who are really thinking about money is their bottom line and it's really hard to innovate and change. And he and I both have to, like, there's also something in this business when you're in a situation like that, like, you're putting you. Like, this isn't an actor playing a role. It's like you're Chris Harrison on

this thing or I'm Lauren Zima on entertainment tonight. And you're putting you out there, all the risk of you, like being yourself, yet you are beholden to what all these voices behind you are telling you to say, making you say you're under a contract. Your social media is under a contract. So yeah, like owning and doing your own podcast is a much better out.

I imagine what you guys are doing now with your show and honestly doing this. Like, I don't think creators realize, and I just say creators broadly can be influenced or whatever you want to call it.

Like realize how fortunate they are to be able to produce stuff without how, like there's, you guys walked in. There is no approval. There's nobody else behind.

There's nobody's telling me what we can and can't do. There's nobody saying. It eliminates the politics. Yeah. Like whatever's going on politically or socially. like, I don't care.

Like, I just do my thing and some like it, some don't. But like that, the internet has basically democratized and made it possible for us to do whatever we want. You realize you, Lauren brings up a good point, that you, at first, you feel like, oh, they love me, they love me. And they're pushing you forward. And you realize you, I was the face and the voice of The Bachelor for 20 years. I did all the interviews.

Because everybody changes, right? The Bachelor leaves. There's new contestants. You're the constant. You're the constant. When I hear you talk, it's like, that's this. So you are. So what happened early on is say there's, and it could have been something benign,

but something controversial happens. Send out Chris Harrison. Well, as things grew, more controversy. Some stuff was very controversial on and off camera. Send out Chris Harrison. Send out Chris Harrison. What you realize later, because you don't think about it at the time, is you're being used for your face and your voice and your likeness.

And, you know, I was told many times, hey, go, go put that smile on. And what's put that Chris Harrison out there? you know, go do the dance, you know, make things right, go save it. And you realize your name is on the line here. And it's, you know, they're not. They're, they're back at the office. Their name's never going to be in print. And so, and if things go well, thanks, buddy, you did a great job. If things don't go well, you're on your own. You're on your own. And you realize you look behind you and you're like, oh, crap, nobody's standing behind me anymore. Before you go, how are you both creating your own future on your own terms without someone?

doing what they do. I think we're both really excited and happy about work right now in a way we hadn't been in a while. And like, again, we're both so thankful for every, we had very cool jobs. Like we had very cool, very glamorous jobs at the end of the day. But now like we feel really reinvigorated, liberated probably. Yeah. No, I feel like I had one of the greatest runs ever. And like, honestly, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, I got away with murder. I mean, I feel like I won the lottery a thousand times over.

I've loved everything from sports casting to game shows to, you know, Miss America, to the Bachelor, Bachelorette franchise. It's been a dream. So now the cool thing is being where I am with this amazing woman I love, it's more important to me who I work with and where we're going as opposed to that old fire and that, again, the desperation of, I just need to work. I need a job. I need a hosting gig.

Because, you know, back in the day, you're like, I just want to work. And what's next? What's next? Now I get to sit back and relax, let my boobs hang out, as you guys would say. Now I get to choose. And we can say no, but it's more important of like, what's that next step with us? And we do have some very exciting stuff coming up. Our next step is going to be amazing.

And we get to do it together. I wish we can announce it now. Okay, you don't have to announce it now, but tell us where we can listen to the podcast, find your social media. So when you do announce it, we know. Onlyfans.com. No. Or not slash Bachelor Voice.

We're obviously Instagram, Chris B. Harrison and Lauren Zima. She was... He is... Let's talk about... He made... I don't know how you didn't get at Chris Harrison originally, but he is at Chris B. Harrison. I'll tell you the story. Greg Grunberg, actor. He was on... Really good friends with JJ Abrams. He's been all these alias and lost and all these movies and the show Heroes and all that. We were friends because he was on a show called Alius on ABC. And he told me about this thing called Twitter. And it was brand new. And he's like, like, dude, you got to get on Twitter. And I was like, what? You're really aging yourself right now. So I was one of the first people on. But Chris, shockingly enough, there's other Chris Harrison's in the world.

I was like, I didn't know what a handle was or why it was important. So I just, my middle initial, B, Chris B Harrison. Not thinking it sounds like crispy Harrison. That's what I thought you said in the beginning. I said, oh, crispy. That's why I paused to clarify. The producers on the bachelor started calling me Krispy. Say Kris.

At least you didn't do at Bachelor, Chris. Like at Bravo, Andy. or we'd be in a really different situation. Yeah, that would have sucked, considering I left. I'm at Lauren Zima. He's at Chris B. Harrison. But we host the most dramatic podcast ever, and where all podcasts are found,

wherever that is in the ether. But we've been doing that together and it's been fun, but there are much bigger things ahead for us. Can I ask you a quick question before we go? I know we're running out of time. But you said that you thought you could win the Bachelor. Yeah, I can.

Did you ever think about? I still do, Chris. Sorry, I do. No, you could. I think, by the way, I think you could do. Did you ever think about being in the hot seat and like him grilling you? And like what should he ask you to grill you? We should have started with what Chris would ask me?

Well, I would become friends with Chris. I would manipulate a friendship in some way. I know you would be kept away from me, but I would charm Chris. No, people found a way. Like I formed friendships. And by the way, I formed friendships with people and I 100% looked after them. At this point, I honestly don't doubt the thing. So if she says she said she could have,

I just said I agree. How long do you think it would take me to make you cry? That's the thing. That's why I think I would win. I would take all emotion out of it. You don't win without crying. You have to cry. Okay, I'll do a fake cry.

If the producers want me to, I'll do a fake cry. I would do a fake cry, no problem. I could fake cry. Put a little onion in my eye. I think in under 10 minutes I could get to you. I don't think so, Chris. You should come back and we should just time around 10 minutes and see. Really?

I need a more intimate relationship in the interview. Let's put some rose petals around. Do you know how to make her cry? I don't mean sexual. I just mean like we got to be closer. You want to make her cry. Wait until she's like in a little bit of a deep sleep and wake her up and start being loud and chaotic and she will cry off her mouth patch.

When he turns the lights on in the morning without asking me, no fucking way. Thank you guys for having us. Thank you for coming on. You guys go follow them and go listen to their podcast because they truly have the two best voices. Chris's voice for me is just nostalgic and calming and reminds me of my childhood. And I mean, to me, you are The Bachelor. and then Lauren's voice is kind of like sexy and raspy.

You guys got great voice for podcasts. I'm like when Phoebe is sick on that episode of Friends. Perfect. I love a little cold. It gives you like a little. And you have to listen now because you guys will be on the most dramatic podcast ever. Yeah, we were on the show. Everybody go listen.

Lauren, Krispy, thank you for coming on. Good to have new friends in Austin, Texas. Yes, Austin, Texas. Two things before you go. You can watch us now on YouTube. So you can go on YouTube, search the Skinny Confidential and watch our entire episodes on your computer. TV. Also, you should know Michael and I are doing a him and her newsletter. So basically, it's a

him and her tip of the day, five days a week. And the tips are very specific, as you can imagine. And then we also have a monthly favorites. So basically, we collect all our monthly favorites, everything we've bought and used and tried and put it in one monthly newsletter for you. To sign up for that, go to shopskin confidential.com and sign up for the newsletter. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time.