The Bossticks - Coco Mocoe On How To Stand Out, Build Credibility, Market Yourself, & Anticipate What's Coming

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

#640: Today we're sitting down with Coco Mocoe, a digital trend forecaster and marketing specialist with a background in entertainment. Coco has a unique talent for predicting the rise of stars and trends across the internet. Today, she joins us to delve into the world of trends. We explore the impact that fame has on the average person, uncover strategies for growing and maintaining a following, and receive valuable tips on anticipating trends and building credibility in any niche. Lastly, we discuss the essential elements of growth and how to succeed as a creator.   To connect with Coco Mocoe click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Our products are now available at Free People! Click HERE to start shopping. This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase.   This episode is brought to you by Branch Basics The Branch Basics Premium Starter Kit will provide you with everything you need to replace all of your toxic cleaning products in your home. It's really a no-brainer. Go to branchbasics.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off their starter kit and free shipping. This episode is brought to you by ProLon Nourish your body without the hunger by ordering the ProLon Fasting Shake today. Go to ProLonLife.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your order. This episode is brought to you by Beis Beis has thought of everything you could ever want in a piece of luggage...360 degree gliding wheels, a cushioned handle, built-in weight indicator, washable bags for your dirty clothes, and all the interior pockets you need to keep organized. Go to beistravel.com/skinny for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Canopy Canopy just released a new filtered shower head that greatly reduces contaminants and odor in your water, leaving you with glowing hair and skin. Visit getcanopy.co and use code SKINNY for an additional 10% off your purchase. Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a dear media production. The Skinny Confidential products are now available online at Free People. Guys, you can go to Free People and you can search the Skinny Confidential. They have so many of our products on their site. You can get the iconic ice roller, the sleeping bag, the driving gloves. You can even get the face massager. It's all on Free People. I am so excited to be on their site.

I've been a Free People lover since I feel like I was in high school. So this is a major moment for everyone to be able to shop seamlessly on their site. Go to freepeople.com and search the skinny confidential to shop. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride.

Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Aha. I remember thinking like this is a little. going to ruin my career. Like, if I have TikTok on my resume, like, no one's going to take me seriously. But I was like, I need the job. I'm just going to try it. And then one of Charlie's videos, like, were coming up on my feed. So I emailed her and I remember she was like, hi, like, I think my dad's coming to L.A. for business. Like, I'm going to see if I can come with him.

There was one video where it was Charlie and Chase Hudson. And I think right now it's at like 40 million views on YouTube, like four zero, not 14. And that was the video that like changed the trajectory in my career just went so viral and I was kind of the person behind the scenes that produced it. And then when I applied to BuzzFeed for an internship, I didn't get it. But I had that video listed on my resume and they reached out a month later and we're like, oh, we're trying to figure out TikTok like, well, you just come full time. So I got an even better job than the one I had applied for. Today we're sitting down with the Cocoa Moco. You've seen her all over TikTok. She's a digital trend forecaster and marketing specialist.

and she has a background in entertainment. She used to work for BuzzFeed, and on this episode, we're really diving into it all. She tells you how to create your own future, how you can kickstart your career from scratch, the next 10 years of trends, how to grow on TikTok, creating longevity as a creator, up-and-coming marketing trends, and how fame has evolved in the last five years. We do a deep dive on fame and fame in 2024. This episode goes all over the place, but there's a lot of golden nuggets in it. On that note, let's welcome Cocoa Moco to The Him and Her show.

This is the skinny confidential, him and her. You have had a crazy career, and I feel like we talked off air. I do feel like you've blown up, but it sounds like there was a lot of bricks that you laid to get here. And I think it's amazing that you used to listen to us at San Diego State and now you're here. I feel like that makes people feel like they can sort of create their own future. Yeah. And like I know for me, especially just in the context of college, I was always so sad that I wasn't like in a sorority or things like that. And I was like, I'm not going to have any connections to get into marketing and stuff like that. And then I mean, I think part of it was luck when I did get into it. But when I got my marketing degree, I was like, I will do marketing for a lawnmower company. Like I don't care. Like whatever I can do. And I saw a Craigslist ad and it was like, we need someone to do marketing at this company in Santa Monica, but we can't tell you like what it is. And so I applied. And then it ended up being famous birthdays, which is so funny. It's like a hot pink website for like 12 year olds. And so I went in and at the time they were interviewing a lot of like musically and YouTubers and stuff. So that was kind of how I got my start. And that was where like the whole entertainment side of it came in. Does all that site does is just pull known people's birthdays?

Yeah, it's honestly so fascinating. Like, I always sing their praises because I think they're so interesting. It basically, it's a website about famous people's birthdays. But when the guy who made it Evan Britton, he thought it was going to be people searching like Beyonce and Lady Gaga. And he thought that there was typos because people were searching like Jacob Sartorius and like Lauren Gray. And he's like, who are these people?

And then he realized that no one was covering like, like these influencers. So he started reaching out and then they would send them their birthday, some info, and then he would invite them into the LA office and interview them because no one else was interviewing them at the time.

Like it just mainstream media wasn't really looking at influencers that way. And so he just built this devoted following of like Gen Z when they were like in fifth and sixth grade. Yeah, I mean, it's it's just so fascinating. They can always tell when someone's going to get famous because they get like the data of like searches and stuff. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, my God. That's crazy. They reached out to me like my fourth year in my career to put me on their site. So do you think that they use the data of people searching to reach out to me?

Yeah. So if they reach out to you, it's because your name was spiking in searches. And they like wanted to get you on the site. So then they would have a landing page. Carson, go see if I'm on there. Let's actually see if Michael's on there. Carson, tell us if Michael's on there. Oh, my God. It's going to not be good for me if I'm not on there. I think it's going to really be calling. I hope he's not on there. I hope it's just me. I don't think I've talked to anybody over there. So.

Nope. I don't. But I guess they could like pull it anyways. Yeah. Like they'll sometimes if there's someone super like growing and they really want a landing page, they'll kind of guess it. And they'll like go on people's Instagram and like see when they posted like a birthday thing and like around what day that was.

And so yeah, there's different ways that they'll like kind of guess. Carson, what's the verdict? I'm on there. He's on there? Well, I'm relevant. I'm relevant. Yeah. That means people are searching.

Oh my God, we cannot stroke the ego. Do not even stroke the ego. I hope it says he's 87 years old. He's about to die. But, you know, we were talking about right before it. And I thought it was an interesting topic to bring up, as we're discussing, fame in general. And you were saying that, like, you watched or you read the Brittany book, obviously. Yeah.

So I'd been, I mean, like, who had it been following her story? But I ordered the book on Amazon. It arrives when I get home from my flight. But I feel like she's such a good example, I guess, where I kind of got my rise on TikTok is I would tell people like how to get famous or like what I thought was going to be trendy. But I also realized that there was this double-edged sword of like I felt like I also had to warn people that I feel like famous, like one of the most traumatic things that can happen to someone. And also for some people, sometimes the most dangerous thing that can happen to someone. And I think Brittany is such an example of that. Like she's even someone that like I don't even make many marketing videos about because I'm like,

I feel like she almost doesn't even want the attention in a way. Like I don't think it's ever intentional or strategic with her. I think she just was so unique. And like for whatever reason, everyone like became obsessed with her. And I think it was weaponized in some ways too. I just finished her book. It's really a tough read because she is a victim. Like when you're reading it and you read what she went through, it is an unusual life with a lot of abuse.

There's cult-like behavior happening. Her father, who was a horrible alcoholic when she was a little girl and was horrible to her, her entire childhood, grew up and essentially took control of her money, took control of when she went to the bathroom, put video cameras in the room when she was with men. he recorded her phone calls. He paid himself $6 million a year out of her money and then would distribute her money to other people. He would have bodyguards for himself that he paid for.

He was controlling every minute of her life. She wasn't allowed to have any alcohol. He put her in a mental institution and rehab. I mean, I could go on and on. And the craziest thing is she could do nothing about it because she was in this conservatory ship. Is that how you say it? Yeah, conservatorship.

Conservatorship. And she literally could do nothing. Like there was nothing. In the book, I honestly don't know what advice I would give her. She's helpless in the whole. Well, she's like the most extreme example. But I think what's interesting on, like on this topic, we get to meet so many, I guess, different walks of fame doing this show.

You see people that are like, quote unquote, the A list down. People are like just kind of breaking through. and what we've talked about here is I think there's a point in fame where if you want to peel it back, you no longer have the possibility to do so. Like I consider Lauren and I known entities, but not quote unquote famous. Like we can walk down streets without people. Some people know, but you know. And I think that is kind of like a healthy space to be in, at least for us.

But we've also met people where they've become so famous that they're at the point where even if they wanted to peel a bag, like, I don't want this anymore. It's almost, it's too late. It's too far. I think that's when people sometimes, at least that we've met, reexamine their relationship with it because they're like, shit, now there's like, you're famous. You can't do anything about it. Yeah. My friend Nikki said it perfectly. He was like, celebrities almost become so superhuman that they become subhuman. Like people no longer see them as human and that in a way kind of hurts them. And like, I definitely believe not for everyone, but it's not my own original thought. I've just heard it before, but that household name type of fame can stunt people at the age that they become famous.

And it really makes you empathize with a lot of people that, like, it's someone like Michael Jackson, he had the mannerisms of someone who was maybe eight or nine. And like that was the age that he became super famous. And like Britney Spears in some way, I think sometimes seems like maybe 16 or like seems very young. And it's like they, I feel like part of that is they'll never have another normal interaction ever again. Like they can never just meet a stranger and like learn about themselves through that person or like everyone always sees them as the person that they were when they got famous. And so they never really get to grow unless they have a good system around them.

Yeah, I think the problem is people don't stop to ask. Do you really want to be famous or do you want the things that you perceive to come with fame, right? Whether that's money or access or whatever. And I think in a perfect world, you would have all the stuff without. that kind of node. I mean, because to your point, like, I think my personal hell would be to be stuck in a restaurant to the point where, like, you can't walk through when people are just staring at you. There was that video and she talks about it in her book, too, of when Britney Spears is

getting out of an Uber and you would die. She's, she is pregnant and she's holding her 18 months old in her hands. And the paparazzi is not letting her go through. They're pushing her. and she is so defeated that she just goes into a restaurant and starts crying. And she's this pregnant woman. She's not wearing makeup, which is just like, leave her alone. Like she just, she just wants to be left alone. And her baby's in her arms and she's just sitting there just crying. And she can't leave the restaurant because there's so many people outside.

Like it was just, it was very, very suffocating. I'm curious to know because you are so on the pulse of trends, how you think people who have gained a huge TikTok following quickly. What's going to happen to them in five years, in 10 years, in 20 years? Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting. I feel like the most recent example would be someone like Alex Earle. I think that we're also at a point where, like, fame is so fragmented now. Like, it's not as likely to have so many different, like, back then there were maybe

five people that got famous a year, if even. now there's like 30 to 100 people. I mean, there could be someone with a TikTok following of 10 million and I meet them at an event and I'm like, I've never seen that before. So I think that it's not going to be as extreme because of how many people are famous. I think specifically gen Alpha, they're like the middle schoolers. They're the ones under Gen Z. I feel like they, of course, are obsessed with influencers, but they almost are going to see it. is like not as interesting as maybe Gen Zian millennials sought influencers.

Because I think to them it's going to be such a common job. And of course, it's still unique and there's a lot of luck and prestige that comes with it. But I think that it's just going to be so many people are famous that it's not as catastrophic when it does happen to someone. Isn't it interesting that Andy Warhol said that in the future, everyone's going to have their 15 minutes of fame? Yeah. I think about that every day.

Like the Roman Empire thing on TikTok, that's my. Roman Empire. Think about that quote every single day. Don't try to talk about the Roman Empire. Don't try to get on trend. I'm not trying to get on trend, but how often do you think about it? No, no. I mean. How often? How often? How often? How often? If I'm not, if I'm not trying to even follow the trend, honestly, like maybe once every two

months. And it's because, well, I'm interested in those books. Like I read, I read a lot of history. And so I, you know, and also because it was like the greatest empire. Well, my Roman Empire is Andy Warhol. You know, you're so right because doing what I do now at your media, not to knock anyone, but sometimes talent or whatever will come through this door and they'll be huge. Like, they're huge names in their own kind of niche of fame on the internet. And I'll have to do research and be like, who is that? And it's most likely because maybe I'm not the target.

But to your point, like back in the day, there was only a select few people that kind of broke through. This happened with musicians too, right? If you were a band, only a few bands broke through. Now everybody. Like, they could be the biggest band in the world. You have no idea who they are. And I think there's just because there's. many fragmented audiences online and there's so many more people online that accumulating an audience

of a few million people is extremely hard and it's sizable, but there's a billion people online. Right. Yeah. I'm more interested in people that are able to like hold on to it because I feel like going viral isn't that interesting anymore, but people that can like stay in the public conscience for like a long period of time. Like to me that's so fascinating. I think very difficult to do. The people I feel the worst for. That's to your point. I mean, not to age ourselves, but Lauren I've been doing this for a while and we've seen a lot of kind of people come and go and some, you know, come quicker and go faster than others. And I always find it to be a shame when you see somebody garnish a ton of attention online early and they grow really fast. And then the sharks swarm

and you get all these different managers and agents and people. And they're like the hot thing of the moment. And then a year later, like they're kind of just like spit out and washed out. And unfortunately, I think that happens because, and you can see how it happens. They think like this never ending growth is never going to stop, but like you have to figure out how to have some longevity and whatever space you're going into. Yeah. You have to like always reinvent yourself and to the point about managers, like I felt like even at famous birthdays, I saw that so much where it sounds so funny. Like famous birthdays you think is this kitty site. But like we would have all of these TikTokers come in and YouTubers that were getting famous and maybe only 10% of them

would have longevity, like the Charlie DeMilios and the Addison Ray's. And there were so many of them that had just like the shadiest managers. And it was worse when they were like young, like when they were like 15. And not that anything like bad was going on. It was just like they didn't have like the tools to like know how to intuitively tell if it was like a bad manager or not. And that's why I always say to. I'm like, I feel like people should get famous after their like frontal cortex is like finished developing. Like people that get famous when they're like 25 or older, I think are able to sustain it more because they're just like more aware. 100% agree with you. If you had tried to get me famous at 12, I like would have been represented by

John Robert Powers. You just don't know what you don't know. Well, and I think like, listen, there's a lot of phenomenal agents and managers, but I think for every good one, there's 10 bad ones. And I don't mean to knock on it. But they're just people that maybe they're in that space. They're a little predatory. They don't have talents, best interests at heart for long-term decision-making. They put them in deals that are going to bring short-term dollars but aren't going to build their brand long term. And again, it's like, I think if I was speaking to any young person that find success in the space, like, you really have to do your homework and find vetted talent and management agencies and companies because there are some really good ones out

there, but there's some people that get in the space. Like, I meet people and I'm like, how the hell are you, like, I've never heard of your company, what are you doing? But they have this really big talent for that moment of time. And you're kind of just like, how did this person get in bed with this person? Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, the worst is like when you can tell they just hired like their friends who like maybe don't have the best intention. Like, I'm like, if someone would come in for an interview, I'm like, like, why do you have like 30 people on payroll? Like, and they're all, like, are they really doing anything? Are they just like here? Like, like, I felt like the worst was like when they had like a lot of their friends around them that they were paying.

And I felt like that was always where it got like super dicey. It's kind of like an athlete. Yeah. I want to talk about how you became a digital trend forecaster and a marketing specialist. But let's go way back to when you were a little girl. you always been someone that was curious about what was up and coming? Like, how does one even fall into this? Yeah.

So I always, I always reference also just like my astrology. I'm a Gemini moon, Aquarius sun. And are you- I'm a Gemini and my daughter's in Aquarius. That's the best mix. Yeah, see, I love Gemini. But how do you be both? I don't know.

I don't get. So, yeah, there's like different parts to your chart. But yeah, so Gemini involves technology, Aquarius involves the future. So for me, when I was super young, I remember when I was in middle school, that's when MySpace came around. And I was like sickly obsessed with it. Like I remember I'd be at school and I would like speedwalk home so that I could figure out how to go on Google and make glitter fall from like the top of the page when you, as if anyone was going on my profile. They weren't. But to me, I thought that like millions of eyes were on my MySpace profile. And so I was

just so obsessed with the internet and like why certain people would get attention. But of course, I was like young. I didn't understand exactly where that was coming from. And then in high school, it was the tumblers that I was obsessed with. And then college, I thought I was going to be a journalist. I even studied or I read the books of like Diane Sawyer, Christine Armappor, all these journalists. And then I couldn't pass this grammar spelling and punctuation test. Like I took it multiple times. And I could not pass it. And so I got kicked out of the journalism. So, school and I went to a counselor and they were like, well, something similar is marketing, like you could try marketing. And I cannot imagine myself as a journalist now. I think journalism is

so hard. So then that was how I got into marketing. And I mean, I had always been just obsessed with like why people's attention goes to certain areas. And with trends specifically, I think when I first started blowing up, it was because I was talking about makeup and fashion trends. But I think I was like, put into this bucket of a trend forecaster in terms of like fashion and clothing. But that's not really what I am. I think I'm more of a digital forecaster. And I remember even some like verified, I think she's like a freelance writer for some big publications. And I was so devastated because she made a video and was like, stop tagging me in that girl's videos. Like she has no credentials. She's never written for a fashion magazine. Like she doesn't know what she's talking about. And I remember being like so

sad because I was like, we're talking about like smudged mascara and like glitter eyeliner. Like, like I don't want to discourage anyone who maybe like doesn't have access to a Vogue internship to like start posting videos and come in our lane. But anyway, so I got put in the fashion bucket when I started blowing up like last year. But I've always been a digital forecaster. I was at famous birthdays and then I went to BuzzFeed for three and a half years. And my job was to really just like go into meetings and tell them like what I thought was coming. how they can make videos with certain brands regarding different trends. And how are you figuring most of that out?

Just spending time on it, really listening. I always say like every platform is its own language and you have to learn the languages and also being a good listener because what I see a lot of brands and even celebrities that try to get on TikTok or whatever do wrong, I use the analogy of it's like going to a small like kickback or party. And if you want to get attention and you. You want to make friends and be the coolest person in the room. Like, that's fine.

But you can't just walk up to a group of people and be like, hi, this is me. I'm funny. Follow me. I'm so cool. They're going to like ignore you and then turn around. You have to stand there for a few minutes. You have to listen to what they're saying. What are the conversations?

Do you have something of value to add? Then you can maybe chime in. So I think of platforms like that. Like I'm just the listener because brands or celebrities don't always have time to listen to what all the conversations are. I think that's super smart. And that's why I came to you and was like, I need to hire you.

So Coco and I've been working together for like three months. And you have helped make it digestible about how to come into the party, if you will. Yeah. There are three drinks that I drink every single morning. One is my raw milk with coffee with nugget ice. I also love a lemon water. Sometimes I add my de-blooding drops to it. And then I drink AG1.

Okay. I started drinking this daily when I heard about it on Kuberman's podcast. And then my husband, Michael, was like, you need to drink this. You need to try this. This is such a great morning ritual. And it's a great way to get a bunch of vitamins, prebiotics, probiotics, probiotics, digestive enzymes for gut support. It has magnesium, B vitamins, basically all the things in one beautiful scoop. And I sort of started on my own. I froth it up with a lot of ice and water. And I'll just drink it down. I think it tastes so good. I've recommended AG1 to a bunch of my friends and family. I recommended it to my dad. He's implemented it into his day. If you're a long time listener,

you know that Michael and I have been drinking AG1 for like the past year. I think Michael even two years. He likes to do it first thing in the morning. I like to wait about an hour. On that note, AG1 is the supplement I trust to provide the support my body needs daily. And that's why they've been a partner of the show so long. If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and 53AG1 travel packets with your first purchase. Go to drinkag1.com slash skinny. That's drinkag1.com slash skinny. Check it out. When Morn's right, she's right. I have to give her credit here. Let's talk about branch basics. If you're like me, one of the many unfortunate people that grew up with all sorts of chemical household

cleaning supplies, never knowing the difference, never knowing a better way, well, then I have something for you, and that is branch basics. Clean without compromise, branch basics is free of fragrance, hormone disruptors, and harmful preservatives that wreak havoc on our health. It wasn't until Lauren battered me down and said, we're changing all of the household cleaning supplies that I absolutely notice a difference. Now, anytime I walk into a house that doesn't use natural cleaning supplies or a hotel, immediately I can tell the difference. I feel lethargic. I feel slow. My brain gets a little foggy. And what I've noticed since I've implemented Branch Basics into the house is that I feel much more energy. I don't feel brain fog. And here's the thing. Once I got educated on all the terrible

things that they put into most household cleaning supplies, even the ones that they greenwash, it was to me a no-brainer to switch them out. Why would I want my dogs or my children having chemicals in their system are being exposed to them? Their premium starter kit replaces all of your harmful cleaning products in the home. Branch Basics now has a new luxurious gel hand soap that we just implement into the house as well, made with only the safest ingredients to nourish your skin. It really is a no-brainer. It's cost-effective. And of course, we have an offer for you. Get those nasty chemicals out of your house and save 15% on your Starterkit or their new hand soap when you use code skinny at www.branchbasics.com. Again, that is code skinny for 15% off

when you purchase a Starter kit or their new gel hand soap. Branchbasics.com, code skinny. I was introduced to Prolon the cleanse from Tinks. Tinks was on Instagram story and she was just talking about how much she liked the specific cleanse. It's kind of like a fast. And I started trying it. I did it like probably four times. Loved the cleanse. And then Prolong recently launched a fasting shake. I think this is so interesting because the Prolon fasting shake is scientifically proven to mimic the fasting state. without spiking blood sugar. It's also designed to maintain a fasting, fat burning state longer while keeping the body satisfied. So if you want to intermittent fast, I know Brooke Burke came on and she raved about intermittent fasting, this is such a great way to do it because it's not going to take you out of your fasted state, but you're going to feel satisfied. Of course, their shake is vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free, soy-free, and it's also, which I think is so cool, packed with 21 vitamins and minerals. So if you're looking to sort of step your toe into intermittent fasting and

you want the benefits such as weight loss and increased energy, this is a good way to do it because you won't feel like you're hungry because you have this prolon fasting shake. Get ready for 2024. Order the prolon fasting shake today. Right now our listeners can save 15% off when you go to prolonglife.com slash skinny and use code skinny at checkout. That's 15% off at PRO-L-O-L-N, longlife.com slash skinny. Prolonglife.com slash skinny. You get 15% off your order. When someone tells you that you don't have the credentials to come into a space, how do you respond? Because someone, when I first started blogging, said, what do you mean you're blogging? You don't have the credentials of a nutritionist. And I think a lot of people get deterred by that if they hear that when they're

entering a field. Well, they've said it to us every turn on every kind of me. Like, you know, I think that's a lot of, a lot of people who have had success have sort of paved through that. Can you talk about that? But I also think that as part of that, though, is I also think that we've grown up in a culture where people feel you need like permission from some kind of degree or some kind of person that's been, like to be able to enter a space. And I understand that if you're going into a medical field or whatever. But I don't, like for me, I don't, I never felt I need a permission to just start doing

this on a mic. Yeah. No, I mean, it's such like good questions because that's something I'm like so. passionately feel is that one, like if you are, again, of course, like trying to cure cancer or telling someone how to build like a rocket ship, you have to have a degree and like have an understanding there. But with the fields that we're in that's more like creative and storytelling, a lot of times it's, it is intuitive. But what really got me is I'm very privilege that, like, I had a college education. And I'm very privileged that, like, I am a

white woman who was able to get her foot in the door at huge companies like BuzzFeed. But when I first started blowing up, I didn't think that I had to disclose that info. One, because I've always been, like, super private. And two, because my videos spoke for themselves. Like, I was like, I don't need to, like, tell you my resume. If you think my video's good, you think it's good. if you think it's bad, you think it's bad. And what I always, like I always say my number one mission statement is to make people feel seen and heard. When that specific video, it was like my villain arc because I was like, I'll be fine. But there's probably a girl out there who's working, you know, a dead end job in the middle of nowhere who maybe didn't have access to a college education, maybe not even access to a high school education.

And they see TikTok or whatever platform comes next. is like, this is my one chance at maybe having a career in makeup or like Cocoa Moco isn't credentialed and she's a BuzzFeed employee with, you know, a college degree. Like, if she's not credentialed enough, then I don't stand a chance. So for me, it was really being like, I don't know. I just, I think though, if someone's saying that you're not credentialed, you're probably like doing something right because you're disrupting the industry in a way. And they're scared.

Like, I feel like when you're disrupting, it's like, wait. But that's usually what. what's going to catch on that. I also think that they're projecting onto you something. And how about this? I don't think credentials are just from college. I think credentials can be found as a bartender. Yes.

Learning energy. Learning how to multitask. Learning how to engage with people and listen. I think credentials can be found working at McDonald's. There's different credentials, quote on quote, that you can get from interacting with people in certain industries. And also there's things. maybe in your day-to-day life that don't even have to do with work where you can find credentials

and you can put it together to create a certain kind of sort of career for yourself. I'll give you like a different like a counter like something outside of the creator economy. Like when we started this business, most of the people that that work in this business are young, like sub-25, maybe a little older not because we've been doing it for all. But when we first started doing this at the time, like people were talking about podcasts, but not to the degree they are now. And so we didn't have like, I didn't have a list of like all these credentialed people that have been in other podcast businesses, or if they had been, they're usually like older and coming

from radio. So I mostly looked to very young people that had no experience or quote unquote credentials, but that just what I felt had like a good pulse on this type of digital content. And that's how we hired. Right. And so like if we would have quote unquote gone for credentials, the company would not exist. Yeah. I mean, I feel like truly at least what I've learned, even in like my path to I'm at like almost a million followers. I think I'm at like 9, 9,98. And I learned so much more from like my lunch breaks at work where I was just posting and like seeing what stuck versus like being in seminars or like I'll travel to seminars and panels and it's really great. And I learn a lot. But I learn a lot from just doing. Like I think I always say behind every viral video is like 30 bad videos that you had to like private or like refill. And that's like really like just doing. And I like whenever I was hiring people around me at my old job or were or having people. come onto my team within the company. It was like, I didn't really care about someone if they were like the A plus student that like, like, of course, those people are important. But I just wanted the

person who was like just like trying whatever they could and like just willing to be the first one to like volunteer to do the scary thing. I was like, that's the person who's like, like going to find the next big thing. I know a lot of people with a lot of credentials that have absolutely no execution. Yeah. And don't know how to execute that are stuck. And I think that. that conversation is not had enough. If you cannot do, like you just said, you are in your own way. And I don't give a fuck if you have all the credentials in the goddamn world. If you have all the credentials and you're not doing, it's not going to come.

Well, here's the thing. Listen, I don't want to knock A students. I am not an A student. But what I would say- You were flashing the principal in detention in Saturday school. I think this is something that's interesting to observe and for people to really think about, especially if they're still in school. if you have spent the majority of your life being told and being trained that success means

you get closest to a perfect score as possible, then there's an opportunity where you have to go and you're thinking about trying something on your own. And it's very likely that you're not going to get a perfect score. I mean, my first four or five businesses were disasters. That's just what happens, right? But if you're trained to think that success means you get a perfect score all the time, it is very hard to break out of that mindset and go and try things on your own. And so I sometimes empathize with people that have been taught that a degree in perfect scores on a test equates to success because in my personal experience and the entrepreneurs and people that I've met in the creator space or in business, it's a lot of micro failures that eventually lead to a success.

And I think if you're not equipped to handle that from an emotional standpoint, it becomes debilitating. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas like maybe I relate to that because I was like always like the kind of like not reckless in a bad way, but I was always just the kid that would like just had so much energy and just did everything. And like two quotes to that of what you guys said that I love. One, I think was from Mark Cuban. He said it takes 10 years to be an overnight success. And then another one, I think it's from Victoria Perez. She's an influencer. And she said that perfectionism is a form of procrastination. And like those two I just live by. Like I'm like, I just need to get like 10 bad videos out there. And then I'll have that one video that changes my life. Yeah, we know a lot of people

that are in that perfection space where they like start to do something and they're getting ready to launch it. And then in their eyes, it's not perfect. So instead of launching in a potentially failing, you know, I'm moving on to the next thing or I'm not going to try that thing. And, you know, I was listening to you talk. And I think it's important for people to think about, like, you could study your formula or our formula or another person's formula all day long, but it's not until you actually start doing the thing and getting a bunch of repetitions in that you can actually figure out what works for you. And so I think to Lauren's point, a lot of people do themselves a disservice by thinking it needs to be perfect or they need the credential or they need permission

to get going. Like we will say on this show like launch fast and adjust because the first 200 episodes were disasters. You know what I mean? Like it's just how it is. Yeah. What are the trends that are up and coming? Let's start with podcasts since we're here. What do you see in the next five to 10 years for podcasts? And you have your own podcast. So I think you're the perfect person to ask. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I feel like at least right now, I'm seeing that. I'm seeing resurgence of like live streamers that aren't just gamers. And I think that we're going to see someone crack the code to like whenever I go to film a pod or even like a YouTube video, it's so hard and like no one talks about it. Like it's literally like just learning that kind of

realm is hard. And so I think that like a meta live stream with pod, like I was on, I was filming a YouTube video recently and I put my phone in the corner of my desk and just live streamed on TikTok. And I didn't even acknowledge the TikTok. I think in the beginning, I just told them what I was doing. And I was looking at the camera away from the phone. And like that TikTok live got more views than even the YouTube video. And I was like, whoa, like I think that there's something there. That's super interesting. So like putting a camera up, not acknowledging. I've seen what you're talking about. And it's like live on TikTok. Yeah. And people can just, that's a really good way for people to find you too. Yes. And. And,

And, Mark. Yeah, and there's two things about live streaming. And I think we'll see more of that connection with podcasting. But one, I always say with live streaming, it's not about entertainment. It's about companionship. People just want to be in the room with you. They're probably watching Game of Thrones on their TV. And they just have it up. And also, if you think about the type of personality who's going to watch a live streamer, they, like, not in a bad way. They probably have a lot of time on their hands. They might be a little bit lonely. Maybe they live alone for the first time. And they're probably adopters of new technology. So they're the ones who, when you announce that you have a Patreon or like some new app, they're going to be the ones that try it before everyone else because they were the ones watching live streams before everyone else. So I think we'll see more lifestyle live streamers blowing up that are like filming their podcast kind of in like a like a fly on the wall way. Damn, that is smart.

That is smart, smart, smart theory. Thank you. TikTok. Let's pretend someone is listening. They have 100 followers. They have no idea where to start. And let's pretend like they hire you right now to tell them what to do. What tangible tips are you giving them?

Yeah. So there's two that I always tell people when they're new. Number one is the niche you go, the quicker you grow. And like, of course, people don't want to be put in a box. But if you're going to stand out, you have to have something unique about you. And like I always say, if someone is like, oh, Have you seen the girl that does her makeup online? You're like, well, that could be anyone.

But if you're like, have you seen the girl that does get ready with me? You're like, Alex Earle. Like, of course, she didn't invent that. But you have to have something unique that if a stranger on the street said it to their friend, have you heard of this person? They would know exactly who you are. And if it's too broad, it's not unique enough. And then number two is just, I know people hate this,

but it really is consistency because you have to train the algorithm. So like when you first start posting videos, the algorithm isn't going to know where to pump you out to. So it takes a few videos or even a few weeks or a few months of you posting. Like if you want to be a popcorn reviewer, like you're obsessed with popcorn. And you post 10 videos about you reviewing popcorn. They're probably going to get no views. But eventually the algorithm is going to be like, okay, this person has posted 10 videos about popcorn. I feel like they're taking this seriously.

I'm going to pump them out to 300,000 people who liked a movie snack video last night. So it takes time. Like I always say like the algorithm is like a robot on the other end. And you have to like tell them what you want to make videos about. And then eventually they'll pump you out. But people put out one video and they're like, this is it. And nothing happens. It's not because it was a bad video.

It's just that the algorithm like doesn't really know if you're like taking it. seriously or not or like what niche you're in. When you say consistency, I like to get very micro here. Yeah. What would you suggest that someone does with 100 followers? How often what like what's the duration? Let's get really detailed. So for me and at least brands I've worked with, I always say three a day, five days a week. Not because it's even about the number, but because if you have to make three videos a day, it forces you to stop overthinking and spending an hour on one video. Like if you have to film three a day, you're like, okay, I have a 30 minute lunch break. That gives me 10 minutes to like quickly do a green screen video about something trending.

So I like saying three a day because it forces people to have those off the cusp videos that are usually the most viral. But if you're like, make one a week, then they like, they just brainstorm. And then by the time they film it, it just, it feels forced. What are some things that you've seen go like viral, go crazy? that you just can't even believe it. Honestly, so many of live streaming, I'm like, what? Like, it's just a bizarre world.

There's a girl that makes candy. Yeah. Who's that? The girl, she's like pulling taffy. Yeah, it's so bizarre. And, like, live streaming, like, isn't to the point of, like, TikToker fame yet.

I would say, like, anytime there's just something super niche, like, there used to be this dog. I think it was named, like, Doug the Pug. And I don't know if you guys saw it, but they would call it, like, is it a bones day? Like, it's just like a, it's like a saying that they would do. And if the dog was

an elderly dog and if he woke it up in the morning and it stood up on its own legs, that meant it was going to be a good day. But if he stood up, dug the pug and then he fell over, it was like a bad day because he didn't have bones that day. So, I mean, I remember like, it's like me every morning. Yeah, exactly. And I remember at work, like people would be like, is it a bones day or a no Bones Day. And like things like that are just so random, but it like makes sense when it does go viral because you're like, duh, like, why didn't I think of that? Like, it's just so niche. Like, yeah. Where do you think that blogging is going and Instagram? Where do, if you could predict in the next five years? It's so interesting. You asked me that because I just finished reading glossy,

which is like the book. Did you read it? I read it too. I don't understand why. Like, I felt like everyone wanted that brand to fill and I thought Into the gloss was like so fascinating and such a cool concept and still is. But I mean, in terms of blogging, I don't know, that's hard for me to say because I myself am not a huge blog reader. Like I read a lot of books. I don't know. I mean, maybe this isn't answering your question. I feel like we're just going to see a lot more influencers like publishing books and stuff because we were on this memoir kick right now. But I don't know about blogging. I just am not a consumer of it. You know what's interesting for me, though, that I look at a lot. I think everybody's very aware of kind of, like, quote, unquote,

the big names that break through. But again, being close to this space and sometimes being on the other side of the veil and seeing the businesses people have built, like Lauren and I just spoke at a conference. And there was 200 creators there, many of them not mainstream, but all of them are making seven figures a year, if not more. And I always tell people this. It's like, do you really want to, this goes back to our fame thing. Do you really want to be the biggest or do you want to really build a business? And I think that like you read the headlines of like the Forbes 30 under 30 and 40 under 40. To me, it's just a bunch of horse shit. You know what I mean? Like I always think it's just like, someone paid for that press. But I, it's true. Did you see my video about it? No, I didn't.

They had to change the article. Well, because it's just like, listen, like I know how to get like, it's, if you want to go and you want to flip some numbers and like it's, I understand those. I did see your video on that. I did see your video. Not to diminish. But I know, I know, I know people that are in the creator economy that are maybe not as known, but like they're powerful and they have substantial businesses with a lot of revenue for many years. And so I think like, again, like sometimes people, their focus is like, can I be the most well known? And I think to your point earlier is like the goal should be can you really build a living doing this for a long period of time? Yes. It has to be sustainable. Yeah. No, I, I, 100%. I think that the creators that like

really dive deep with their audience. Like some creators will have 100,000 followers, but like those followers are so loyal to them that that's the equivalent of someone who has 10 million followers. And like it's so, it's that discussion of like surface level fame versus like diving deep. And I always like to say all these different quotes.

My manager calls them the cocoaisms. But when it comes to fame or virality, like do you want to be great at one thing or good at everything? And I think people that become very like surface level household names sometimes it's because they're like they dip their toes in everything but like they don't dive deep and like maybe the people that dive deep don't have the most recognition but they have the most power and like people show up like I think the biggest sign of how influential someone is is if they can like throw a pop up event and like people physically show up like that's crazy

to me like that's so hard to do I think a great example of that is indie from Lonely Ghost Indian Brana they've done a really I mean they have people, they did like a haunted house and I think they had like a thousand people show up and they've built such an incredible community. And to Michael's point, you were saying that we spoke at that conference. Like the people in that audience were very powerful with what they were doing and maybe they don't have millions of followers. Well, I think my fear, my fear for a lot of people that are looking at this space and like maybe glamorizing it a bit is like I think it can also be really unforgiving. Like if you build a huge platform and then you have an audience abandon you and there's, like,

You know, we all know these stories. Like people like have this, one calls it astronauts. And they go super fast, rise at the top. Everyone's doing deals with them. Then they go away. And it's like, you've had this level of quote unquote fame. You've got a bunch of brands throwing money at you. And then it's gone.

So I think it's like it's also really important for people to think about like when they're building a career in this space. Like what they actually want to be known for. Like not just be known. Or they get really popular, really fast. And they give their brand equity away too easily. So all of a sudden you start seeing all these co brands with every like there's like 15 co-brands. And they're working with every single brand. Yeah.

And slap their name on it and it ruins their equity. Totally. I really do feel like your glass ceiling is like who you collab with. And I interviewed recently, Greg Goodfried. He's the DeMilleos manager. And he's like behind so many crazy internet lores. But he's one of those like mysterious, powerful people behind the scenes. And he said that part of the reason the DeMilio signed with him is he told them,

you're going to get a lot of offers. Like this is when they were blowing up in 2020. He's like, you're going to get a lot of offers from a lot of people. And it's not about what you can do. It's about what you don't do. And like, I'm the person that will tell you what not to do. And I was like, that is like the best advice. I think people get so excited and they want to do everything.

But like the moment that you do a brand deal with like a hokey tea brand or like some random like thing that is a weird, you know, the product's not good or whatever, like your fans don't really trust you anymore. I totally agree. And I think that that conversation is going to be up and coming for like in the next 10 years. I think we're going to hear a lot of that kind of conversation. Base, guys, luggage that is designed to fit everything effectively and efficiently. It was invented by actress and model Shay Mitchell. And she's just like all of us. She was looking for ways to make travel a breeze. She created base, the perfect luggage that is fashionable and functional.

Here's the thing. I really like this luggage because it's functional, yes, but it also is cute. So you get both things. I personally am a huge, huge fan of their cosmetic bag. It's always sold out. I actually saw it on TikTok first. I bought the black one. I fell in love with it so much that I went back and bought the beige.

How I use it is I'll travel with the black one. And then the beige one I use for my skincare. care. So I pack like my hyaluronic acid, my vitamin C, my mist, my castor oil, brow situation. I'll do my skinny confidential depuffing oil. Everything's organized in this case. And it sits in my car or the garage or even the laundry room so I can just grab it before taking Zaza to school. And sometimes they make Michael Drive and I just like do my skincare. And it's all perfectly organized with my base cosmetic case. I could not do it without this specific case. Every piece is made to look better with miles, so you don't have to worry about it in cargo or overhead.

Right now, Base is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase by visiting basestravel.com slash skinny. Go to base travel.com slash skinny for 15% off your first purchase. That's B-E-I-S travel.com slash skinny. We have had some people on the podcast that have talked about water. water that you're showering in or water that you're bathing in. And they say it can be really, really hard on your hair and your skin. It can even give you rashes if it's unfiltered. So basically when I heard that Canopy launched a new filtered showerhead, I knew I had to try it.

So this one is dermatologist recommended. It's in a unique three-stage filtration system and it gently reduces contaminants and odors in your shower water. So if you've been using unfiltered mineral filled water, maybe this is why your hair is dry, or maybe you have like a dry itchy scalp or a rash. It could be from the water in your shower. This one is hassle free. I set it up myself in Zaz's room. I wanted to try it out to see if she liked it too. She loves it.

And it has a unique quick release filter replacement feature, which allows for a seamless filter replacement. Go to get canopy.com to save $25 on your canopy filtered showerhead purchase. You should also know they make the best humidifiers on the planet, and they have diffusers. Go to getcanopy.com to save $25 off your canopy filtered showerhead purchase today with canopy's hassle-free filter subscription. Even better, our listeners can use code skinny at checkout to save an additional 10% off your canopy purchase. Hurry, I'm telling you, your hair and skin will thank you.

Go to get canopy.com to save $25 off your canopy filtered showerhead purchase today with Canopies Hassel-Free filter subscription. When you interviewed Charlie DeMilleo, her first interview in 2019, what was that like? I had been working with someone close to her recently, and I don't even know if she'd remembered, but I was at the event and I'm like, I don't know if you remember because, you know, my first name is this and that's how you knew me, but now I'm Coco and that's how you know me now. but like you, that interview that I did with you like changed my life. And so I really think of that moment is like why I'm in this room. Like that like interviewing her was and I wasn't on screen. It was

what happened behind the scene. So I was at famous birthdays and I was when I got the job, I was assigned to run the TikTok. It was musically and then it switched to TikTok. And I remember thinking like this is going to ruin my career. Like at the time, everyone was doing Instagram marketing, YouTube marketing. And I was like, if I have TikTok on my resume, like no one's going to take me seriously. But I was like, I need the job. I'm just going to try it. Again, going back to like the person that just tries the new things and is like figuring it out for everyone else. And so I was on TikTok and then Evan Britton, the guy who founded famous birthdays, he was like, if you see anyone on your for you page who you think might be famous, like invite them in,

just like you have full invite control, whoever you think. And I remember it was when TikTok really started to take off in late 2019. And then one of Charlie's videos like were coming up on my feed. And there also weren't that many videos back then. Like it wasn't, but anyways, but the moment I knew she was going to be famous is I saw people duetting her and like talking about her hype. And I always say that's like the moment you have like a third party talking about you, not like a friend or a coworker, but like someone unrelated to you, they're going to be famous. So I emailed her and I remember she was like, hi, like, I think my dad's coming to L.A. for business. Like, I'm going to see if I can come with him. So we were like, okay, great.

So then she came in and they filmed the interview with her. And the video was starting to go so viral that I remember one of my managers being like, I don't know if these numbers are real. Like we thought YouTube was just like inflating our numbers. But I was like, no, I think she actually has this audience. And no one had heard her talk before because she was blowing up dancing. So no one knew her voice, her mannerisms. So I think that was where the fascination from the audience came in.

And then because of those videos, I remember she went on like a Gary V podcast a little bit after that. And he was like, when did you know you were famous? And I think she said something about like when famous birthdays reached out for an invite. And then from there, I started working with her manager and her dad would reach out to me and be like, hey, we're in town. Like, can we come in for another interview? And we would just stop everything and be like, we'd have to play it cool. Like on email, they'd make us be like, if we had the whole day free, we would have to be like, well, we have an opening at 11.30. or like 215, just so they thought we were important.

I mean, I guess at that point we were, but when the demilies would come in, we'd play cool, but like everything would stop. And there was one video where it was Charlie and Chase Hudson, another TikToker. And I think right now it's at like 40 million views on YouTube, like four zero, not 14. And that was the video that like changed the trajectory in my career. It just went so viral and I was kind of the person behind the scenes that produced it. And then when I applied to BuzzFeed for an internship, I didn't get it. But I had that video listed on my resume.

And they reached out a month later and we're like, oh, like you made these videos. Like, we're trying to figure out TikTok like, well, you just come full time. So I got an even better job than the one I had applied for. The recruiter at BuzzFeed was asleep at the switch there for a second. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it was like I, and I'm guessing they put like TikTok in the resume finder and mine came up. And then I had the like data to prove it.

But I always say like that that the the video. that I made with the demilios, like, they might not even remember me or like, I've, but like, to me, like, those changed my life. And I got to go to, like, the Sway House, which is so, like, it was like Bryce Hall and like Jaden Hostler, but it was like, it was such a time. And it was, like, right before COVID happened. And famous birthdays was just getting the interviews with all these kids before they were like really taken seriously by like mainstream media. So it was like this little bubble. What marketing trends do you think are up and coming? Right. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Go off. I think we're going to see the rise of like super long videos on TikTok, like the 10 minute feature. And I know that sounds crazy. People like, I hate watching long videos. But I think that I said this earlier this year at a panel. I'm calling it short form fatigue. I think people are going to have short form fatigue on social media, which is like when I'm scrolling on my for you page, like I want to be able to just find a long video and then like brush my teeth like while it plays. You know?

And like YouTube, sometimes the discoverability is really hard on YouTube. And like podcast discoverability is even harder. Like I found like my few good podcasts that I love and listen to. But like I think TikTok, the videos are just so short. So I think that we're going to see audiences like in the next year in 2024. Like we're going to see someone blow up on TikTok who makes like eight minute videos. Like that's going to be their thing. That's not surprising to me at all. I think, you know, history kind of repeats itself. And I think what happens is, this is maybe, I mean, now TikTok's aged up a bit, but it's a, I would think it's fair to say it's a younger generation of viewers. And I think what happens over time is your interests are broadened and you want more depth from the people you follow. And so you want more where it's like a dance video at one point was enough. But then you're like, I want to know what you're wearing and what you're thinking and what you're eating. And then like you don't want that in a 30 second form and where you're like, I need to actually hear what you're thinking about this event or this day. I think that's just like the natural progression of things as people age up. Yeah, well, and like from a user perspective, when videos are really short, like I hated whenever people would say, oh, vine is big.

Like, people's attention spans are only seven seconds. It's like less than a goldfish. I'm like, I think it takes more brain power to like scroll every five seconds. And your brain has to process a new video, a new face, a new caption, a new topic, a new maybe sentence structure, a new comment section. And you have to decide in a split second if you want to watch it. And so every five seconds, your brain is all this new. info, info, info. And it's exhausting. And I think that from a user point of view, they're just going to want to be able to open the app and find like long videos and enjoy them. And I even on the TikTok beta version, like if you go on their website on your desktop, they're testing out these podcast features. So I think there's going to be like a for you page, but like for podcasts. Sometimes I want to listen to a podcast when I'm cooking or doing laundry or whatever I'm doing.

But I also want to see the person. So to put on a TikTok would be amazing. there's this book I read a long time ago, and I always recommend it's called The One Thing. And in that book, it talks about how multitasking is facade and how we're actually as humans not good at multitasking. If I said, hey, do this podcast, but then let's sit down and go over a spreadsheet and then let's sit down. Like, your brain is not, it's not equipped to do that. And there's a guy we're having on the show named Michael Easter, and he just wrote this book called Scarcity Brain. And he's, a lot of it's about this endless scrolling and how it's like, it's actually maybe not the greatest thing. What we know, it's not the greatest thing for the human brain.

And so that doesn't surprise me at all because I think, Like I was in the car today. I was like, I find myself sometimes endlessly scrolling on stuff like, this is useless and this is not feeding it. And there's no takeaway. Because it's just so many things that I can't be like, oh, that one thing I'm taking something. If I asked both of you, what are the last five videos that you saw scrolling?

You guys cannot remember. That's crazy. But if I asked like your last YouTuber podcast you clicked on, you know exactly who it was why you would listen. Like there's just no object permanence on TikTok. Yeah. And these platforms are really good about giving. the dopamine hits. And so I think you get to a point where you're just like, people get so fatigued

because to your point, there's like not a takeaway, even though the video might be valuable, it's just too many. You can't remember. There's no retention. I also think like how many people can you actually like consume when you're consuming like six million? It's like too many people. It's like pick your, pick your players. Yeah, that's why sometimes like I'll get comments. It's so divisive, but I say the intro in some of my videos like, hi, I'm Kokomoko. I work in media. da-da-da-da. And it's so repetitive, but I do it because it like, it's memorable. Like, people can remember it. I almost feel like it's hypnotic. And when someone sees a hundred videos, if they hear me say that, like, 10 times over the course of a month, they're going to like

remember that. And so that intro doesn't work for everyone and it's not for every video, but it's just like a little thing that I do to try to like stand out and like people remember me. It reminds me of a jingle like in the 60s, like a commercial. Yeah, like what's the Like there's so many good jingles. Yeah. I remember like rice, a Roney, a San Francisco treat.

Yes. Or I remember like two and a half men. Like Charlie Sheen's character was like a jingle writer. I don't know if you guys ever watched two and a half men. I didn't watch that show. Oh. Charlie Sheen was doing more than jingle writing.

I know, right? Yes. Jingling his balls. Charlie, come on the show, Charlie. I know. That'd be a crazy podcast. Are there any other marketing trends

that we should be paying attention to? I guess I'll like end on this. note, which is so counterintuitive to like what I do, but I always try to say this to people, which is like, I like to report on trends. I think that they're really great benchmarks to look back in history and be like, this is why people's attention was on this thing. But if you really want to stand out, like if you really, really want to build a loyal following, don't pay attention to trends. If anything, like, do the opposite because people are going to have that itch for it. And like culture swings like a pendulum. So like what we're talking about right now,

Everyone's doing short form, TikTok, you know, 30 second videos. But like the pendulum's going to swing. So if you're the person doing eight-minute videos and you have that muscle, when the pendulum swings in six months, you're going to be the one that knocks it out of the park. So like, I guess like it's not even a marketing trend. It's just like a philosophy, which is like pay attention to trends so then you can give people what they're missing. That is damn good advice.

Before you go, what is a trend that you have predicted or trends that have been 100% right. I would say my first ever video that I did, I was talking about how I think the Tumblr, like, aesthetic and just like talking about Tumblr and stuff is going to come back full force. And I swear, like, no one was talking about it back then. This was like last August or September. And since then, like the whole vibe has come back. Like the 1975 has trended again. Like, Lana Del Rey is bigger than Tumblr. I'm like a lot. on a fan. But like she's had this resurgence of this new audience that didn't really find her from Tumblr. But like, and this one random sound on TikTok is trending and it's a G-EZ Tumblr Girls.

It's literally called Tumblr Girls. And like the aesthetic of like the like messy makeup and this kind of grunge like side bangs that was really big on Tumblr. Like so I really think that just the Tumblr discussions and aesthetic and vibe like I called it last fall, I guess, late, summer and I feel like it's been such a big trend this year. If you've been following, Kim just said Tumblr or Tumblr Kylie's back. She said that, Kim Kardashian. I think so. I think she said that.

I know she said like King Kylie, but King Kylie was Tumblr. Yeah. I'm pretty sure she said that. Michael, you don't even know what Tumblr is. I even said it wrong. I said Tumblr, but Tumblr. When Michael does a side bang, when you do it do a dashboard confessional cyber rate. Did Kim Kardashian say Tumblr Kylie is back?

I think she did. Michael, you're spending too many too much time. Yes, scrolling. Where can everyone find you follow everything you're doing, pimp yourself out? Thank you. Yeah, I mean, my biggest platform, of course, is TikTok at Coca-Moco.

I was right. Carson says I'm right. There we go. Told you, learn. Get on the tram line. Yes. And no, you're so good. I'm happy that that was correct

because I was like saying the word Tumblr, like that it was going to come back and then anyways. And then my like ultimate pride, like where I really love. of making videos and my best quality work is my podcast ahead of the curve with Coca-Moco. And that's where I get to like interview really cool people and dive into like whatever's trending and stuff. So I'm going to be doing a deep dive on the glossy book in my upcoming episode and what I think about it. So yeah. Thank you so much for coming on.

Two things before you go. You can watch us now on YouTube. So you can go on YouTube, search the Skinny Confidential and watch our entire episodes on your computer or TV. Also, you should know Michael and I are doing a him and her newsletter. So basically, it's a him and her tip of the day, five days a week. And the tips are very specific, as you can imagine. And then we also have a monthly favorites. So basically, we collect all our monthly favorites, everything we've bought and used and tried and put it in one monthly newsletter for you. To subscribe to the him and her tip newsletter, all you have to do is go to tSCpodcast.com. That's TSDpodcast.com.