The Bossticks - Dr. Gabrielle Lyon On How To Lean Out, Boost Your Metabolism, Build More Muscle, & Increase Your Longevity

Episode Date: October 6, 2022

#503: On today's episode we are joined by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Dr. Dr. Lyon received her doctorate in osteopathic medicine from the Arizona College of Osteopathic Medicine and is board-certified in family medicine. She earned her undergraduate degree in Human Nutrition from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign where she studied vitamin and mineral metabolism, chronic disease prevention and management and the physiological effects of diet composition. Today we discuss how we can leat out, boost our metabolisms more effectively, build more muscle and increase our longevity.  To connect with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. The PINK BALLS Face Massager is great for defining the jawline. The unique shape and automatic grip takes the guesswork out of the lymphatic drainage technique. Pair it with the Ice Queen Face oil for the perfect snatched, glowy look. This episode is brought to you by Ritual Protein powders can be intimidating. But the fact is, we all need protein. Get 10% off your first month at ritual.com/SKINNY. This episode is brought to you by Dr. Dennis Gross Help correct and prevent signs of sun aging with Dr. Dennis Gross Vitamin C Lactic for firmer, brighter, stronger skin. The quality of Dr. Dennis Gross ingredients, formulation, and delivery system all add up to you seeing real results– both immediate and long-term. Use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first purchase at www.drdennisgross.com This episode is brought to you by Lexus The Lexus RX is the best-selling luxury crossover of all time and the best-selling luxury vehicle every year since it was first introduced. Never lose your edge with the all-new Lexus RX. Experience Amazing at your Lexus dealer. This episode is brought to you by Hiya Health Hiya vitamins are designed for kids of all ages and sent straight to your door so parents have one less thing to worry about. While most children's vitamins are filled with sugar and can contribute to a variety of health issues, Hiya is made with zero sugar and zero gummy junk, yet it tastes great and is perfect for picky eaters. Go to hiyahealth.com/SKINNY to receive 50% off of your first order. This episode is brought to you by Steve Madden This season, Steve Madden is getting ready and going out; we're taking whoever wants to go, and whoever's game for a good time. You can now get ready for any occasion in head-to-toe Steve Madden. The brand has you covered from apparel, to footwear, handbags, and accessories. Use code SKINNY20 at checkout for 20% off your first purchase at www.stevemadden.com. Promo code excludes pre-order items. Produced by Dear Media

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And again, the shoes you want to check out are the VALA. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

As individuals age, they typically lose muscle. And we've seen it, right? You're like, what happened to that guy? So is that inevitable? Probably components of it are inevitable. But the reality is what we do midlife and how we create those habits and establish habits of proper resistance training. Muscle is the organ of longevity because it is also your body arm. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show.

This episode was getting me so excited because she basically talks about the importance of weightlifting and eating protein. And muscle building. Which I have been doing my whole postpartum experience with Towns. With Zaza, I did not lift weights and I did not eat a lot of meat. And I have noticed, you guys, an exponential difference this time with Towns. I'm eating a lot more meat. I'm weightlifting. And so this episode, like solidified that I am on the right path. I'm going to make a blanket statement and say most people and specifically women have been misled for so long about the

importance of weightlifting, building muscle, dare I say eating meat, the right kind of meat. And some people may have a certain reaction that right when they hear it because there's been such an effort to give misinformation around these subjects. But I think if you keep an open mind and you listen to this episode and Dr. Gabriel Lyme, who is an absolute expert in this, field, it's going to maybe shift some of the way you look at some of these things because it is undoubtedly, in my opinion, so important to get the right meat products for the right aminos and the right vitamins. And it's also so important to build muscle for your overall health and well-being and longevity. And we get into it in this episode. Dr. Gabrielle's whole

mission is to discover how your muscles drive your metabolism and hold the secret to lifelong weight loss. I have to tell you too, seeing her in person, I was so inspired. Her body is rocking. She looks great. She's glowing. She's all the things. Her mission is to improve your long-term health, restore your metabolism, reduce chronic disease risk, and slim and strengthen your body. She's also all about boosting energy. And in this episode, you're going to learn all the things from the woman herself, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. I was telling you off air that I was completely clueless when it comes to muscle and building muscle and how much protein to eat up until two

years ago. I think a lot of women especially are. Do you have that experience with women? Absolutely. Do you think that you haven't heard about muscle? I think that you're, you know what I'm going to say. I do. I think that we've been told for so long that when you build muscle, you bulk up. Exactly. And what I realized in the last two years on my weightlifting journey is you, you shrink up if you do it in a certain way. I feel like when I put on my pants even, it's like your composition changes. Absolutely. So basically what I'm hearing you say is that it's really difficult for a woman to put on muscle and be, quote, bulky. And you look amazing in person, like just amazing. So basically, I did slip her five under the table to have her say that.

So I guess that's a great podcast. We've solved it. You're not going to get bulky. Yeah, bye. Good. When I was telling, so the majority of the workouts I've done throughout my life have been weightlifting, right? I've never been like a big cardio guy. I probably should implement more. But I was telling, I was saying to Lauren, I was like, you know how much weight you have to lift consistently to get the bulk you're talking about? Like, this is what people, men try for. It's not like you just lift a few weights and all of a sudden you're huge, right? It's really hard to put on that kind of muscle. It is. And I think that the discussion in the paradigm around women and weightlifting is kind of fringe, right? We think about the weightlifting women. And when you see them, they're really. masculineized. And the reality is muscle is the organ of longevity. And you have two little children. Congratulations. Thank you. And the goal for many women post-baby is to really get in better shape than they were before they had their baby. Which is a plot twist and changing, I noticed. I am on a mission to get in better shape. I want to go, like, I want to look like I looked in high school. But like with muscle, like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. We've been told that like there's kind of like this underlying.

thing that like we've been told that we should just like settle for what we have and be happy. I don't agree with that at all. I couldn't agree with you more. And muscle is not only going to change the way you look. Okay. So from a vanity perspective, but it is this organ of longevity. It is an organ like the thyroid is an organ. And what we really miss is that it really determines the trajectory of your health and your aging and the way in which you consume food. It's all about skeletal muscle. So when did you get into muscle? A long time ago. I was really into fitness. And I graduated high school early. I graduated high school at 17. I graduated in three and a half years. And I moved to Hawaii. Moved in with... From where? From Chicago. Okay. Oh, that's a change of climate.

I don't know why people talk about island fever. I would have never left. The funny thing is, is I moved in with my godmother. And she is a PhD in nutritional sciences. And I became very interested in the way nutrition interfaces with the body in terms of health and wellness. That changed the trajectory of my life. Then I went and I had already planned on obviously going to college and I went and I did my undergrad at University of Illinois. Back to the cornfields. I did it in human nutrition, vitamin mineral metabolism. I had the good luck to land into one of the world leading protein experts class. His name is Dr. Donald Lehman. Because of that from a very early age, it changed my perception and perspective on health, wellness, and muscle.

And what was your relationship with food before this? Was it? What a great question. Nobody has ever asked me that. Look at me. Hey, do you like do this often? No one has ever asked me that. And I would say I was food obsessed. Yeah, a lot of women are, I think. High carb, food obsessed, could never get enough. I was constantly thinking about how I was going to curate whatever was organic or healthy at the time. And it was a really unhealthy relationship with food. I think a lot of women have that unhealthy relationship with food. But what I've noticed is the more protein I add in, the less hungry I am for craving things that I wanted before adding a lot of protein in. And also if you have a sweet tooth in the new supplement protein and said you'll probably

kill your sweet tooth. You know what else kills your sweet tooth? Just a little side magnesium. But that's a different story. I was going to say my cooking, but yeah, that works as well too. You know, I noticed the same thing. And that was one of the things that really began my obsession with dietary protein. I know it sounds silly, but it was this and still is this underrepresented macronutrient. So you have muscle, which is largely thought about in the fitness arena, completely devoid in the health space, especially as a physician. And even going through medical school and training and beyond, then you have everybody vilifies carbohydrates. This is true. Are you going to be high carb, low carb? Is it going to be the food guide pyramid? Whatever it is.

And then, of course, fat is so controversial. We're finally seeing a lot of heat around protein, but for decades, it was kind of pushed to the sidelines. As I think that you, unless you are into bodybuilding, I'm sure that you can appreciate. I mean, a lot of young guys, you know, in college, 18 years old, they're thinking about protein shakes. But after that, it's kind of like to the wayside. When you look back when you first started implementing protein into your diet, what was some easy things that you did to get more protein? Because if someone's listening and they're like overwhelmed by adding more protein, what did you do when you started? Yeah. Well, the first thing is I identified what was a good protein source. I was vegetarian for many years.

And I was also a macrobotic. Do you know what that is? I was macrobotic. But maybe just explain it if someone doesn't. A macrobotic is eating locally, eating with the seasons. It's very low protein. Maybe there's a little bit of fish, but it is largely a plant-based diet. And I couldn't support my training. I was really into fitness. I still am arguably into fitness. And I needed to learn what were some good sources that I could recover. I just struggled with recovery. And I started with fish. I started with eggs. You know, when we think about high quality protein, we do think about chicken and beef and bison and fish and eggs and weigh and dairy. These are all. We're all high-quality protein sources.

When we think about protein and the quality of protein, that simply relates to the amino acid content. Without getting too scientific, really, we don't eat for protein. We eat for those amino acids. There are 20 amino acids, nine of which are essential, meaning we have to get them from our diet. The other, or just obviously non-essential, we can get them, make them. when we think about protein quality, we're really eating for those essential amino acids. And it's hard to get, and tell me if I'm wrong with medicals, it's hard to get those essential amino acids without protein of high quality that would be meat, mostly meat products.

Well, you can totally get a dietary protein from plant-based sources, but it doesn't mean that it's high quality. And when we talk about, and this is just, this is a non-emotional conversation. It's really just based on the essential amino acids and the scoring. there's scoring systems of foods that really relate to these essential amino acids. So from a scientific standpoint, it's not to say you can't get these others, but if you want the highest quality of amino acids, you need to get them from most likely a meat source. Yeah, a meat or a like an egg or a way.

And for people that eat plant-based or a vegan or a vegetarian, what can they do if, like, say they have a moral reason why they're not eating meat. Where do you tell those people to start? Legumes, soy, pea protein. this is where the isolates come into play. Because the tricky part is if we're all looking for optimizing body composition, which I think is fair to say that we do and we want to, we need to be very careful about overconsumption of just calories.

And with calories, we need to think about overconsumption of carbohydrates. With plant-based sources of protein typically also ride along carbohydrate intake. Again, this is not to say that there's anything wrong with carbs. It's the amount. For an individual who is plant-based, you are looking, at there's rice pea blends, there's obviously legumes and soy. Those are kind of the things that you would think about when it comes to protein consumption. And also the other thing is you're going to need more. Well, that's the thing is you need to eat a lot more. You're going to need to eat,

you know, the current recommended dietary allowance is a 0.8 grams per kilogram, which is really low. Soy for some reason. This is like weird, but I just feel like it has estrogen in it. There are estrogen-like activities in things like pea and soy. It's not necessarily estrogen, but it does have estrogen-like activity. You bring up a really good point. Have you ever seen a pea isolate exist in nature? No. I haven't either.

That makes me think what are the long-term consequences of a food source that we haven't eaten over a period of time? I don't know what those unintended consequences are if individuals are over-consuming or making the isolate it's their primary source. We just don't have the data. It hasn't been around long enough. So if you have to eat a protein powder, which brand are you reaching for? Well, as you know, we were talking about this earlier, I work with First Form. I love their natural weight protein. Okay. I think it's incredible. I also think that if an individual is going to rely on powders, then you can do a rice pea blend. Okay. But if it was you when you were first starting, it sounds like I would do weight protein. But you slowly implemented fish, you slowly implemented

eggs. Oh man, and I cried when I did it. I just felt so guilty. I remember. Why? Well, at the time, I was largely vegetarian and I felt really, really guilty. And I made, there was a defining moment where I realized I just wasn't able to perform the way that I had the potential to perform. It's interesting that you say that because what I've noticed with vegans or vegetarians is if they decide to implement eggs or cheese, they'll post themselves eating it, but there's this six-page explanation. And I'm like, I don't need an explanation for why you're eating eggs. Eat eight eggs all you want. If you wake up tomorrow and you decide you want to stay, good for you. Like, it's your prerogative of what you want to eat. But I notice there is like this shame and guilt surrounding

maybe if you're deciding to add more to your diet and not be a vegetarian and vegan. Well, I also think there's a little bit of a lack of information and understanding around how many animals actually die when it comes to a vegan or vegetarian, like to produce all of these. I mean, think about how many bees get taken out just from almond milk production. Right. Right. And so cows are more important than maybe some of this other insect or animal life that takes, that takes the form of like killing all these crops that kill all these other animals. Right. So there's like, you're not getting out from a moral standpoint, Scott free without taking lives in anywhere. That's absolutely true. And when we wait into agriculture, there are issues in any industry, whether it's beef or cropping, there are challenges.

And not only that, we have, what, 8 billion people in the world to feed? How are we going to do that? Well, and that's what I'm saying is like, I think there's maybe just a lack of information. If you do choose a plant-based diet, not understanding how many species get taken out in the production of the products that most of those people are consuming. Yes, I would absolutely agree with you. So, and then I think on the meat side, people are saying, well, one, cow or bison or whatever can feed X amount of people for X amount of time with a lot less production. And it's not just about the meat that it is providing soap and leather. There's

regenerative properties. You can use the whole thing. You can use the whole thing. Cows are upcyclers of nutrients. They take low quality proteins and low quality food like cellulose, which is grass, and make it into something high quality that humans can consume. Let's talk about muscle a little bit. You were talking about. talking about longevity. I want to stay on this first thing because I think people, this conversation is now starting to rise a lot more. And people are talking about more prominently. My dad's almost 80 years old. Like he's really starting to lift again. And he's done wonders for him. Like he was, he was not feeling so great. And now he's lifting. He looks great, feels great, has way more energy.

And I want to talk about muscle as it relates to longevity. Yeah. And you're seeing where the message that I've been trying to get across forever, when we see our aging parents, that's really where something clicks. For us that are younger, for individuals that are younger, your dad has now, because he is training, has now increased his survivability across nearly any illness. And that is incredible. You can see it? Yeah. And not only can you see it in his energy, right? His energy is probably improved, right? The muscle, as we gain more muscle, we gain more mitochondria, healthy mitochondria, especially as we're doing that through training. You know, you kind of get rid of the old mitochondria and you get smaller, more mitochondria when you are training. And of course,

perhaps resistance exercise isn't the primary focal point of mitochondria. Maybe that's more interval training. But the reality is he's increasing his mitochondria. He's increasing his strength. He's increasing muscle, again, as this organ of longevity that is responsible for the majority of glucose disposal. As individuals age, they typically lose. muscle. And it's something that we commonly see and also have named sarcopenia, which is a decrease muscle mass and strength. And we've seen it, right? You see the aging individual become, you're like, what happened to that guy? That guy was such a stud. And then you see him 20 years later. And, you know, we can think about certain celebrities that we, that were super jacked and tan

with good hair. And all of a sudden, over decades have become much tinier. So is that inevitable? Probably components of it are inevitable. But the reality is what we do midlife and how we create those habits and establish habits of proper resistance training. I think about hypertrophy, which we'll get to, I'm sure. But staying on the longevity conversation, muscle is the organ of longevity because it is also your body armor. If your dad were to fall. Yeah, and this happens.

Yes, it does happen. Yeah, we have friends that have passed away, unfortunately. from, you know, older friends from falling, hitting their head, don't have balance, you know? Absolutely. What he's doing now is training him up. It is training him up to protect himself both from a mobility, flexibility, strength, and proprioception standpoint. But the other thing is he's also protecting himself metabolically. And when I say metabolically, I mean, as individuals lose muscle, they typically have changes in glucose regulation. We've all heard about diabetes, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's disease. While we think about these diseases as it

relates to adiposity, which is excess body fat, I would argue that these diseases have the potential to begin decades early, decades earlier in skeletal muscle, an unhealthy skeletal muscle as a primary site for the diseases that we're seeing later on. All right, I have protein powder probably five days a week, especially after I lift heavy in the gym. And I like it two ways. So I make these oats that Ariel Lord told me about, which I'll tell you about in a second, or I make pancakes out of it. And I just feel like it's an extra way to get protein in a delicious way, because I am not like a big, big, big shake fan. So what I do with the oats is I'll do two scoops of protein powder, a third of a cup of oats, and then I'll put chia and hemp seeds in there.

and then almond milk, it's absolutely delicious with some blueberries. And then for the pancakes, I'll do sort of the same thing, but I'll add two eggs to it. And the protein powder that I use is ritual. Ritual has a protein powder that they launched recently. It's the Ritual Essential Protein. And it's absolutely delicious. It's not chalky. It's plant-based.

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Visit ritual.com slash skinny today for 10% off your first three months. All right, I recently did a master class with the master himself, Dr. Dennis Gross, and I learned all about the two most important things that everyone, and he said everyone should be doing to their skin, and that is vitamin C, Taylor Take Note, and LED light therapy. He said this is a one-size-fits-all. everyone needs vitamin C. He said, it's kind of like your diet and eating healthy. Vitamin C is like a pillar of that. And then he said the LED light therapy is absolutely amazing for anti-aging. So he broke it down for me all the benefits. So you're going to see reduced hyperpigmentation, which I have

especially noticed, reduced wrinkles. And it's going to give your skin more of a moisture barrier. But most importantly, it all protects against free radical damage. So he told you, me out of all his products if he were to start with anything, it would be the vitamin C. The lactic acid in it increases absorption and enhances the performance. He's really perfected his vitamin C recipe and he went on and on about it. And then he said at night when you're winding down, maybe you're meditating watching a show, throw that LED light mask on, you've seen it all over Instagram, or even do the chest one on like your boobs and chest area and you are golden. He said this is a really strong foundation for a skincare routine.

So if you're overwhelmed where to start, that's what he says. And you guys, he's really seen it all and he's a master chemist. So I feel very confident with this advice after the masterclass. Of course, we have a code for you. And if I had to tell you just like my own personal preference, one product that I like by Dr. Dennis Gross, that's the oil-free moisturizer. It's like this lightweight bouncy moisturizer that I put underneath my makeup. and it just feels so good. It's like in a blue tub.

So check those products out on his site. He has a code for you. You can use code skinny at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. You're going to visit Dr. Dennisgross.com for more information. And I will be using my own code. If you wanted to sort of, quote unquote, dumb this down for someone and prescribe something when it comes to muscle to everyone. Like if say you could prescribe like in your dream world with a wand,

what would your three places to be to start? Is it strength training three days a week for this time? Like what is your prescription? Yeah, I actually do have a magic wand. I have just a few of them because of my daughter. I found one recently in my suitcase. The first place I would start is planning and focusing on hypertrophy, which is really the kind of the growth of muscle tissue as opposed to say strength. And when we think about hypertrophy, that's pretty easy no-brainer, especially if you are new to training. It's going to be easy for you. Well, I don't know what that means. What does that mean? You keep saying that word. Well, hypertrophy is growth of muscle. So, you know, like when you're going to go and you want to work on your bicep. Okay. So you're saying strength training. What you're doing?

Like you go and you're focusing on a muscle group as you're training. And maybe you're not going to extreme failure and lifting super heavy weights where you're doing four to six reps or something. But you're maybe doing 8 to 15 or going to failure. You're focusing on hypertrophy. I recommend individuals do that. three to four days a week to start. I also recommend working with a fitness professional. Okay.

The real magic is going to come when medicine marries muscle through the fitness professionals. That's where everything is actually going to change. Well, especially if you've never done it before, it can seem overwhelming if you're looking at someone deadlifting or squatting or doing bench, whatever, and you've never done that to kind of work before. I think you should work with somebody that can actually help you because form's important. Yeah, I'm really glad that you brought that up. because we didn't talk about exercise choice.

Now I'm a trained geriatrician, which means I am trained, actually fellowship trained in taking care of individuals over the age of 65 through late life and eventually death because apparently nobody gets out alive. It's a sad thing. And my perspective is how can individuals do exercises that translate to functionality?

For example, you have two little children. You need to be able to. to carry your two little children, one on your shoulder, one on your hip, and a stroller, probably a bag, and be able to get the keys and into the car. And blow my husband. Not all at the same time, though. And cook dinner. Right.

Not all at the same time. And bring an income. Right. Yeah. It's like a fucking octopus. It's, yeah, it's impressive, isn't it? Oh my God. Yeah.

And you need to be able to think about, okay, so that's what you need to do during this time in your life. And then as the kids get older, you're still going to be able to and need to be able to choose movements that when we think about training, we think about training for a lifetime. So you should be squatting, deadlifting, bench pressing, being able to do kettlebell carries, farmer carries. And next time I'm in town, we'll go work out. I would go work out. I would go work out. I would love to work out with you. It would be great. I just was doing things I've never done before. I was picking up stones. I would love, love to work out with you. It was great. And that's a, so you asked me what are the

three things people should do. Number one, hypertrophy training. Okay. And, This is not to say that strength training isn't important. You know, you'll cycle through different phases and different training programs, which is essential. And then some kind of sprint interval training. It's the worst, right? You're doing it correctly then. And also, I feel like it sags my boobs and the knees. Don't worry about it.

Really? No, there's solutions for all those things. Okay. Can you give us specifics? The sprint thing just puts me over the edge. Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying the running. No, no, no, it doesn't have to be running.

Okay. Have you ever seen the devil's tricycle, the Airdine bike? Is it like an air assault? Yeah, exactly. An assault bike. Yeah. An assault bike. Okay.

God, those things are rough. Rough. You just do that. Maybe do it for four minutes total, 30 seconds on with a rest period. I mean, you're talking about going all out. And how many days week? Oh. Just one session.

Four minutes? Maybe four minutes. Not all at once. Can you distinguish the difference of benefits? And I know that we haven't got to the third yet, between doing that kind of like sprint, training versus long periods of endurance running. So that is actually the third recommendation that I have.

And that is building a cardiovascular base. No, that's easy. We'll do that. Are you kidding? You can like, I'm going to listen to this podcast. We're going to do this. No,

no, that's easy. Is that like zone two? Yeah. Zone two training. Totally boring. I get a lot of reading done. Okay.

Oh, okay. You're doing it. Oh, that's fine. You're doing it. I do that. I just walk on the treadmill and return emails. Exactly. What speed, though.

I mean, this should be, you should be able to have a conversation like this. You should be able to have a comfort, but your heart rate should be like 4.0? I mean, what are you doing? You're going to be like 8.0. So I, I'm what we call a NARP for any fitness professional, a listing. That's a normal athletic real person.

So I am not doing anything crazy. Okay. I will do the stair mill. I will do, you know, last time, you know, my husband is training for the New York Marathon. I had mentioned before he's a Navy SEAL. So he jumped in training at week five, although he's like been sitting on the couch. So I'm not running anymore because I hurt my calf trying to keep up with him.

So are you doing your sprints for four minutes a couple of times a week? I know one day a week, maybe, maybe once every two weeks. And I do it on the air done. And for only four minutes? Oh, yeah. I mean, you go all out. You got to tell me. Wait, wait, no.

Just four minutes? That's all I have to do. I mean, it depends on, okay, you and I were going to do this next time. And you're going to be like, that was the worst experience of my entire life. And you're going so all out. You just want to quit. And you eventually, and listen, if you can go more than four minutes, great. But you, you know, from my perspective, I want to be able to put in 100% effort.

So I want to, I have a certain metrics that I, that I want to meet. I want to be able to, you know, hit all out, recover, and do it again. And as soon as I start to see kind of that drop off and maybe I'm in a more just high intensity interval, you know, and when I think about that, I think about where my heart rate is. So a sprint interval training, you're talking about 90% of your heart. And it's horrible. And it's only four minutes. Total. I mean, again, you asked me to give general recommendations.

Okay. So, and yes, total. But you just like dread it all week. It's horrible. Oh, it's horrible. Well, that's another topic. I think people get so overwhelmed when it comes to fitness. And you see these people are in the gym for like two, three hours a day, every day.

It's like you don't, if you're doing this kind of training, like I took Lauren through some workouts with me when we're in San Diego. We were just doing strength training. Hyper, hyper preferrophy. How do you say it again? her perpetrate. You got it. Sometimes it would be like 30, 40 minutes, max. But your heart rates up.

And she was like surprised that that's all it took. You know what was kind of what you're saying and correct me if I'm wrong? We did the Stairmaster and after seven minutes I was dying. So is that like was that what you're talking about? I couldn't believe it. I was dying. Unless we were pushing it up. Right.

So max effort. I mean, the Stairmills a little difficult because you don't have total control of what you're doing. You couldn't go higher to really push that. max threshold. But yes. But what you were doing is probably that high intensity interval training, maybe 80% or less, or, you know, around 80%. Yeah, what I like about this type of training is like, time is precious. I don't have three, four hours to go into the gym all day. So if I can get in for an hour for any of these activities once a day, that's perfect. Yeah. And you're talking about efficiency.

Yeah. Talking about training efficiency, which again is where a fitness professional comes in, because you're going to go and you're going to do targeted training. And there's many different ways to design a program. But I do think, for example, we have to think about the other aspect. If you are sitting in front of a desk for eight hours a day, you need to be moving for at least an hour. On TikTok, they have these treadmill desks that people just walk at while they're working. Like, they just put it under their desk. People walk like 10 miles a day. I mean, that's pretty cool. Yeah. It'd be totally distracting for me. And I'm sure I would trip at least seven times. But yeah, I mean, that's a little hack, 300 bucks for a little treadmill under the desk. Let's say the foundation,

is what you just said, which is growth of muscle. You said sprints, and then you said zone two. Yeah. What's the icing on the cupcake things in your perfect world that you could add in extra tools that make you grow muscle in an effective way? So that's a good question. If I could add in something else above and beyond that, I would add in some kind of physical training that would incorporate everything, whether it's jiu-jitsu or whether it's some kind of skill-based learning. I think that that's very valuable. And then what about protein? How much, how many grams of protein would you say that everyone needs? I am going to go out on a limb and say from a higher perspective, one gram per pound ideal body weight. Most people then, and I'm just going to make a general assumption,

are probably eating way less protein than's optimal for their bodies. The average American female eats about 75 grams of protein a day. And the average male maybe 100 grams. And so everyone needs to So say like average weight 150 as a man or 150 as a man. That'd be a light man. But you're eating basically half of what you should be in terms of protein. And again, when we're talking about protein, why does it matter? When you're young, listen, you can get away with a lot. Remember the Twinkie diet and when you're in high school, you literally could eat anything that you want. And you're like, my abs are great. This is amazing. That changes. That shit changes. When we account for the change, right, we're not driven by hormones as much anymore. I mean, arguably some people are.

The reality is that hormonal milieu changes. And we have less hormones. So we have to account, how do we keep our body composition where we wanted to be? Well, we train and we consume high-quality dietary protein so that you can build, maintain muscle. And right now the current recommendation is 0.8 grams per kilogram that literally has not been updated for the last 30 years. I would love for you to walk us through a day in your life and how you fit it in with two children and how you're eating enough protein and how you're working out. So give me like, give me a Monday you wake up. It's fucking nuts in the morning. There's two kids. What do you do? So it's nuts in the morning. My husband gets up at 4 a.m. And he tells me that if I cared about what I was doing,

I would also get up at 4 a.m. Oh my gosh. And I wake up around 5, as I was mentioning earlier. to you guys, I don't know if I was, but I'm finishing my first book. I will write for an hour. Then the kids start making noise around six and we leave them in their bed. So I've now worked for an hour. I'm up at five. I've worked for an hour. I may get them, hang out with them for a little bit, and I'm out the door by 645 to train. Out the door by 645 to train. I train from 7 to 8 and then I come home, get the kids ready, take them to school, and then I start my day. But what about food? I haven't eaten yet.

You haven't eaten anything? No. So how long? I won't even eat until probably 10, 30 or 11. Okay, this is where I get confused, though. There's so much conflicting information on this. I was told that I need to rush home and eat protein right after I weight lift. Not.

Absolutely not. You are young. And the reality is, as long as you're getting that protein in within a 24-hour period, within that day, you're good. Okay, because we have... Because you're mostly building while you're sleeping too, you know? You are recovering. And the reality is when it comes to dietary protein, we have created such huge barriers.

Right. And I wonder if these barriers are just distraction from being able to execute. You know, I often wonder, because these, if we can simplify everything, okay, so we're going to train three to four days a week, we're going to put in a particular amount of effort and focus. We're not going to be on our phone. We're going to be there executing. We're going to have goals.

we're going to hit. We're going to do our zone two training, which that's where we can get our work done, kind of like tune out, and this is fun. Then you're going to do one suck fest a week. And then maybe you're going to do something else like, you know, I do gymnastics with my daughter, something like that. As it relates to nutrition, having good nutrition and foundational principles are great. You don't have to rush home and have your protein shake. You're like, holding your protein shake. The kids got their milk. You don't have to do any of that. As long as you are eating your dietary protein amount within that day, you're good. Okay, so you're home, it's 10 o'clock, you're going into work. Wait, so to clarify, if you're somebody that fast and you eat within like an eight-hour

window, you can, as long as you're getting that amount of protein in that, you know, based on the grams that you need, you're fine. Yes, and. There's the yes-and aspect of fasting. It depends on what an individual's goal is. If your goal is to build muscle, that's probably not an ideal strategy. To fast. Correct. Because there's two ways to stimulate muscle. The obvious, which is training, and then dietary protein, stimulate skeletal muscle. When you eat it in a particular amount, you know, that's where I talk a lot about this 30 gram minimum. It stimulates protein synthesis. And over a period of time, the goal is for not only building muscle, but also maintaining healthy skeletal muscle. So I get home and I go right to work. And you haven't had coffee. You haven't

No, no, I've had a, yes, I've had like a coffee IV. A coffee IV, okay. Coffee IV, so that's all you've had so far. Not really an IV, but yes, I've had coffee prior to training, probably two major cups of coffee. Okay. Train, I get home, take my kids to school, and I start work. Then around 10, 30 or 11, I'll have my first meal. And that is either going to be a beef patty, believe it or not, certified Piedmonties, lean. So I do, I choose lean cuts. You know, oftentimes when we think about red meat, we think, oh, this is so baddy. Calories matter. I choose a lean cut and that'll be, you know, either I'll eat a lean burger or some kind of filet, maybe some fruit, some berries, make it super easy. That's it.

And then I'm back to work. And my time in between seeing patients, I will do kettleball swings for fun. I will do push-ups for fun or pull-ups. Even though you already trained in the morning. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. And here's why. Because the reality is I've been up since 5 a.m. The effort that I put in it, it all just depends on the day. I mean, it really takes me a long time to warm up and get ready. And if I just wasn't, you know, I don't believe that we were meant to be so sedentary. Right. No, that makes sense. Am I doing something extra? Yeah, totally. Am I doing things because I believe that we are very domesticated as humans totally. So what can I do instead of having more coffee to increase my energy? That makes sense. Think about how much we sit nowadays. We weren't

designed to do that. When is your next meal? Probably around. So if I had 11, 11 o'clock, it might be three. And then what is that more protein? It'll be protein and fruit, maybe some vegetables. Again, nothing crazy. Maybe it'll be a large yogurt. Okay. And then I will get my kids. And then dinner? I will probably have a snack with them when I get them, nothing major. So it's not going to be a huge protein meal. The reality is, is for the listener. The first meal and the last meal are the most important to really nail. So if your listener walks away from nothing else, they're going to know two things after this podcast. Their ass better be training, number one. And number two, they're going to have very specific, easy things that they can do to help help,

support their health. And they should eat first thing in the morning protein and last thing at night. The first meal. I don't care when it is. That first meal. If you're going to start at one o'clock, fine. It's just what's frustrating for me, and I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, is there's so much, there's so many conflicting things. But on top of that, there's so much content being through to you. Like, I've had so many people come on here and be like, eat fruit first because of digestion. And then I've had people come on here and say fast. And then I've had people come on here and say have celery juice. and then a shot of apple cider vinegar and then eat your first meal. So it's just,

it's so hard to like decipher what is actually working. Can I help? Go. Love it. What is your primary goal? For me? Yeah. Right now.

Well, I have a three month old. So mine is to lose weight and tighten up, but tone up at the same time. I don't want to just get like super skinny. I want to get toned and tight. I love that goal. What's your primary goal? For me, it's honestly, to be a good husband.

What you, what you touched on earlier is like, I want to be able to carry all the kids without effort. all their shit without effort. I want to have, I want to be able to age gracefully and for a very long time. Great. It's less to mean,

a byproduct is obviously if you have the vanity metrics and you can have, you know, abs and chest and bias, but like the main goal is overall health for me. Great. Right. I have a solution,

which shockingly is the same for both of your goals. And it's not salary juice in the morning. Okay. Okay. And that is your first meal of the day. Whenever that is, you need to hit a minimum of 30 grams of high-quality protein. You care about body composition. If you care about metabolic regulation, if you care about aging well, you cannot deny

the dietary protein for that first meal of the day. And there's tons of research. In fact, when you look at the feeding studies, they typically look at that first meal of the day in terms of muscle protein synthesis. and also hunger for the rest of the day. There is no downside to nailing that dietary protein, but there is downside to missing that. So what if you drink 30 grams of bone broth protein? Is that count?

No. Why? Because it's missing some of the essential amino acids. It's an incomplete protein. Collagen protein, while I love collagen, has a protein score of zero. Oh, even though there's 10 grams of protein in a cup of it. Zero. Oh, my gosh.

Because it is missing the primarily some of the essential. essential amino acids. It's very low in the branch chains and it's devoid of an amino acid called triptophan. So waking up with like eggs, waking up with like you said like some kind of beef, waking up. Eggs, yeah, eggs, beef, yogurt, weigh protein. If you are plant based, having a, you know, whatever the shakes are, pee, rice shake. What about a little bit of oatmeal with like two scoops of protein butter? Great. I don't care. Protein at 30 grams. That is your target. And it's super easy to do that. And when you get that right, everything will change. It will change not only from a physical perspective, because you'll be able to manage your blood sugar, right? And when I say

manage your blood sugar, your carbohydrate threshold, that carbohydrate meal, I like to keep in a one-to-one ratio. So if you are going to choose to have carbohydrates at that first meal or that last meal, not around training, right? Or, you know, maybe it is around training. It could be potentially in a one-to-one ratio. So you can have 30 grams of oatmeal and 30 grams of protein. Let me ask you this. If someone's waking up with three eggs and a piece of toast, you'd rather put the toast later in the day. Is that what you're saying? I would say if you're eating three eggs, you have 18 grams of protein and maybe the toast has two grams of low quality protein. That's not enough. See, that's why I always make six eggs and you're like, what's going on? You're hitting it. So you're

actually hitting the lusine threshold with six eggs. So you would want me to have six eggs in the morning. Because then you'll have roughly 36 grams of protein there. Oh my gosh. six six. Yeah, but I mean, when I talk to people privately in my life, like friends or just people that come to me for this kind of stuff, but most of the time I can tell they're not getting the results they want in two ways. One, they're most likely not doing any kind of weightlifting at all. Like they just like, oh, yoga, I play tennis or whatever. And they're not eating any protein really. Or they're supplementing protein sources that aren't quality, like you say. And I think like those two things, if you can just implement them, you'll be so much further ahead

than the majority of people that don't. Absolutely. And again, we have to think about the long game of life, what we do now really matters because it doesn't get easier to build muscle. No, it's what I, I mean, people 20, 25, I'm like, oh, I look good, I feel good. I'm like, wait till you get to 30, 35, 40, beyond. Like, it gets, you decline quickly, especially if you don't have a base. So you are correct. And that's one of the reasons why I think hypertrophy training, strength and hypertrophy training early on is very important. And if you want to add in extra things like yoga and Pilates, which do have benefits, do that later when you're unable to or don't have that capacity to put on the tissue that you need, right? I get a lot of heat. I've gotten a lot of heat

from the Pilates and yoga community, not saying that these things are mutually exclusive. Are they beneficial? Yes. Do I believe it's your primary hypertrophy mechanism, your modality for hypertrophy? Not necessarily. Building muscle now what you can. For example, your dad, who is 80, it's amazing that he is training. Yeah, and if you, like, he wasn't doing it for a few years and he started getting a little frail, starting, dad, if you hear the, sorry, starting a little smaller, right? Like, wasn't as, you know, I don't think he was feeling as good about how he was thinking, you know, he's very sharp now.

As soon as he started lifting, he's like, now, I mean, he doesn't look like it that old, right? No, he looks hot. He can lift more, he can lift more weight than most 25-year-old men, right? Barry, you're hot. So, yeah, and he's 80, right? And he runs around and still works and, you know, acts like a 15-year-old, you know. So I think it's important.

And that's, to me, the goal, right? Like, I don't want to become a frail 60-year-old man, especially with how long people can live nowadays. Absolutely. And you're thinking forward, the time to address that is now. And that's hard. It's hard. It's hard.

And it doesn't get easier. And that, you know, the wave of youth closes. That's why making sure dietary protein, you know, that you're getting it in and doing it right and not being distracted or confused by all the narratives out there because it really creates a smokescreen for what needs to happen. I am very familiar with Lexus because I have driven two in my lifetime. And I just think it's an incredible car. I actually became a fan when my dad drove the car throughout high school. And I've just like always been a Lexus fanatic. So I am very excited to tell you about the best selling luxury crossover of all time. And that is the

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color. But the point is, it's a great vitamin that she's taking. It's non-GMO. It's vegan. It's dairy-free. Allergy-free. Geloton free, nut-free, and everything else you can imagine. And it is high a health. I started to do a deep dive into vitamins after getting really serious about my own supplementation. And I was like, what am I going to give my kids? And so after digging, I found out that typical children vitamins are basically candy in disguise. So some of them are filled with two tablespoons of sugar, a lot of chemicals. There's like gummy junk, all these things that you just don't want your kids eating. And so then I found high a health.

And this is made with zero sugar, zero gummy junk. But it tastes great. And how do I know? I tried it. Michael tried it. It's very good. And it's filled with amazing vitamins like vitamin D, B12C. zinc, folate, and she likes it. Like, that's so important, too, that they like it. Haya health vitamins

help support energy, immunity, brain function, mood, concentration, teeth, bones. So you're, like, hitting all the points. And I just feel good about giving her this vitamin. I know what's in it. I would recommend it to other moms, obviously, like, do your own research, but this vitamin, to me, has stood out amongst the rest. And of course, we have a special deal. So we worked out this deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. You receive 50% off your first order, which is insane. To claim this deal, you must go to Hayahealth.com slash skinny. This deal is not available on their regular website. You have to go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-H-E-L-T-H-H-H-T-H-com slash skinny and get your kids the full-body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. So what are the pushbacks that you get? Because

to me, this is all backable by science. I mean, this is very science-back stuff, right? Like, this is not, this is not like speculative like, hey, like, you know, this is how we've evolved. Yeah. I get a lot of pushback. And it's interesting. So I've been doing this for 20 years, right? None of this pushback really. And, you know, happened until social media totally took off. Remember that you might be your young term reminds but there was like card catalog and you actually had to go to the library and look at the medical journals. It wasn't as available. The information whether good or bad was not as available as it is now. The major pushback and

this is actually quite new in some regard is that there are longevity experts that are not necessarily trained geriatricians who have been at the bedside of dying individuals at the end of life that are saying really midlife to restrict dietary protein. And you'll see these guys, the very thin, they're small. And that is one of the arguments I hear over and over again. But if we believe the paradigm that healthy muscle

equals healthy life, then we're not going to sacrifice tissue. The other thing is people will say, well, how much muscle is enough? And I'm not sure that we'll ever know that. We know how much is too little. We can look at some of the sarcopenia data and look at some of the appendicular skeletal mass indexes. But the reality is we don't know how much is enough necessarily or optimal, is a better word, to support mechanisms of healthy aging. We just don't know. Here's my thing with the Internet, what I realized.

Confirmation bias. If you're looking for something, like say like you're, like, you're going to be a lot of, you're like yoga, you can lose a shitload of weight. And you Google yoga weight loss. There's going to be people on the internet that you can find that have lost a lot of weight from yoga. If you're looking for something, you can find it. So, I mean, sometimes people I think are just Googling their point and finding that and trying to throw the fact at your face, even though how do we know it's even true? Right. And that's where I think, and it becomes really important to find individuals that you trust and understand what their motives are. When we understand where their motives are and what an individual

has to gain or what a group has to gain, think things become much more clear. And that becomes really relevant. You know, I trained from, I've been trained by one of the world leading experts in protein metabolism. He doesn't have an agenda. He's a scientist. He's written hundreds and hundreds of papers. When I did my geriatric training, people don't care if it's, plant-based or animal-based or the smokescreen about agriculture versus fossil fuel. None of that was discussed. Where the challenge becomes really big is when things become emotional. And when it becomes emotional, it really takes away from any kind of factual information and then being able to make good decisions. The pushback I get in terms of longevity is people say, well, you should

be plant-based and restrict dietary protein. I can't think of a worse recommendation for an aging individual. Because how are you going to maintain healthy skeletal muscle? Did your dad eat as much as he used to? Yeah, but you know what's funny about my dad? And everybody was giving him shit for so long. He largely eats primarily mostly meat, his whole life. Very little vegetables of anyway.

I have a joke. The guy's never met a salad. He's like in his life. He would think that his diet is, But like as he's aged, and the more that I think this conversation around high quality proteins has become more and more prominent, if you look at his eating patterns throughout the majority of his life, it's probably 80% meat-based, right? And he now has been able to keep muscle on for 80 years. He's still training, like I said, like a young man. And, you know, to me, I've seen people that I've gone with alternative diets and they don't look close to as good as him. Obviously, like, I'm not comparing everybody to that model, but. I think you start to see some of these guys that are in the longevity space or guys like Mark Sason who are 70 years old and they look like a 30 year old man. It's like there are high quality protein sources in their diets and they shy away completely from these kind of like fad diets on the internet. The other aspect to that is when we talk about longevity, we have to talk about the end of life.

would you rather live five years longer, completely weak, wheelchair-bound, bedridden, and not able to do your activities of daily living? Or five years less. And I'm just picking arbitrary numbers. Five years less. Strong. Of course. Capable. Cognitively intact.

Yeah. To me, there's no quality of life where if you can't stand up any longer, can't move, you don't have function of your mind or your brain, right? To me, it's like, what's the point? Like, I would much rather live high. And I think when you were talking about how much muscles too much. To me, the minimum should be an amount where you still have your balance and your function and able to walk and have your bones be strong enough to not be brittle and break at any kind of fall or, you know, something like that. It's your body armor.

It's also your amino acid reserve. If an individual gets cancer, if an individual has any kind of major health crisis, the healthier and the more muscle mass an individual has, the greater their survivability. Keto, paleo, what do you think of all these diets? Are you just like get the protein in, stop with the diets? Just get the protein in. I am. I feel as if, I feel as if we're creating more division. Right. And more work around it. But when we create division, okay, and I'm a health care provider. And with that, I want to see a healthy world. We are never going to get there if we are all arguing. We are never going to get there if we're having camps and zealots and these fringe groups as opposed to, okay, what are the macronutrients that I need?

Or number one, what are the outcomes that I want? We probably can all agree upon. We shouldn't be eating ultra-processed foods. A whole-food diet is great. I can argue. Maybe we can argue that. I don't know. Someone would find a way. I know. They will. I guarantee it. Then the next thing that we have to think about is what are the foods that are going to provide that? What is the macronutrient balance? From my perspective, I take a muscle-centric approach to health and wellness. I am not concerned about body fat. My focus is not losing fat. I think that that is a misnomer. I think that that is also a distraction because that's not root cause. You focus everything on being proactive and muscle-centric from a health and longevity standpoint means you optimize for dietary protein.

If you want to get it from plant base, okay, fine. If you want to get it from animal base, okay, great. I think that there are food matrices within those things that we also have to consider, for example, the bioavailability of an animal based product has high levels of iron and zinc, B12, selenium. It's just a full food matrix. If an individual wants to have weight protein, there's alpha lactalbumin and immunoglobulin type proteins in there that are great. If an individual wants to go plant-based is going to have a decrease in its bioavailability, but it's going to have phytonutrients. My argument would be why would we not just combine the two?

It doesn't have to be incredibly extreme. Also, people can cycle through different dietary patterns. That's fine. With the understanding that for the most part, you should prioritize the protection of skeletal muscle. with that everything else falls into line. What I got out of this podcast is so many things. But one thing is I'm going to start my day with protein 30 grams. I'm going to add my four minute horrible sprints in more zone two cardio and focus more on protein,

high quality protein. I love it. Well, I think at a minimum, if you're listening to this, and again, if you can try this, you know, just trying this for a month, seeing how you feel after, because we didn't even get it dive into all the things that it'll do for your mind and what weight lifting can, you know, how good it makes you feel from all of the just dopamine and all the stuff that you get from lifting weights. But then adding more protein, you'll see, I think people will start to see results so much faster than without. Absolutely. I love that you're bringing up the brain and cognitive

function aspect. Muscle is an endocrine organ. It's an organ. It's the largest organ system in the body. It's not skin. Muscle is an endocrine organ. And when you contract, it, it releases myokines. What's myokines? It's a protein release from skeletal muscle during contraction. It's why if you're ever, especially people that are like struggling of anxiety or depression, like go get in the weight room and see, you know, focus for one hour and lifting heavy weights and watch it go away. Yeah. One reason is this effect on BDNF, which is brain-derived neurotropic factor. And when you contract skeletal muscle, it releases these myokines. One in particular, I rescind and there's another one that actually cross the blood brain barrier. So it actually

crosses the blood-brain barrier and stimulates BDNF, which is this brain-derived neurotropic factor in your brain. And it's important for neurogenesis. It's important for brain function. That's incredible. The idea that muscle is so much more than fitness, it's so much more than fitness. It's so much more than, you know, being strong. It is actually an endocrine organ that interfaces with the immune system, when you exercise and you release these myokines, there's one, which is also interleukin-6, it can lower over a period of time systemic inflammation. It interfaces with the immune system. It interfaces with nearly every organ system in the body.

That is incredible, and that's actually what we're missing. if we can bring that concept to the mainstream, we can change medicine because we can change the trajectory of aging. You're incredible. I know you have a podcast. Tell us about your podcast what we can expect from that. And I would love for you to come back on another time maybe when you're in Austin, New York, to talk about the mental benefits even more. But pimp yourself out. Tell us about your podcast, your Instagram, all the things. Yeah. My podcast, it has a very original name, very different. It's called the Dr. Gabriel Lyon Show. I unfortunately named it that just so that people can find it. And are you ready for this? The goal of the podcast is to have transparent conversations. To really cut through the noise and the narrative, but to have transparent conversations. Everyone I bring on is very well-bedded. People can find that on iTunes, Spotify. It comes out every Tuesday. And then I have a YouTube where we do shoot it in studio and that comes out on Thursday. You can find me on Instagram, Dr. Gabriel Lyon. You can find me on my website. I have a free newsletter where I bet and curate new research that's coming out. And of course, that's free to the public.

If an individual wants to apply to be in my practice, I do see patients and I have a whole team. I have a great physician. His name is Brian Stepanenko. He is former military. Nearly everyone in the practice is either military or has a connection with the military. They can also find me on, did I miss anything? I don't think so. If you did, we'll link it all out.

Yeah. Well, thank you so much. You were great. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I know, I got to go eat eggs, six eggs. No, actually five. I did the math. Five, right? Okay, five. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for coming on and everyone go follow her on Instagram. Wait, don't go. Do you want to win a copy of my book, Get the Fuck Out of the Sun, signed by me? All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic. And make sure you're following at TSC podcast on Instagram. On that note, we'll see you next. time.

All right, Steve Madden, it's iconic. I've been wearing their shoes since I was in, like, seventh grade. Anyways, I got the opportunity to go on their site and pick out two pairs of shoes, and I wanted to tell you guys what I got. The first pair of shoes I got are called the Vala Lime, and they are like highlighter lime shoes. They're patent leather, they're plain, but they just immediately sucks up any outfit. So I'll wear them with, like, a black trouser and, like, a black turtleneck.

And then I have these like bright neon patent shoes. They're so cute. I went out the other night in Austin and I kid you not, I had like two people come up to me and ask me where they were from. And then I also got a more neutral pair. And it's the Vala natural Rafia. So it's the same Vala shoe, but it just looks different. So it's like nude, it's chic, it's elevated, it's more business.

I would definitely recommend going on their site and checking out these shoes. They look so expensive too. and they're 5999, which we love. And of course, we all know Steve Madden, your favorite footwear brand for over 30 years. They have just launched apparel. So while you're on there, checking out the shoes that I just recommended,

go check out their dresses, their jackets, their coats, their tops, their shirts, their bottoms, their jeans, all the things. You can literally get ready from head to toe, which is awesome. Steve Madden is focusing on memories we create, like getting ready and heading out with friends. This season, Steve Madden is all about

the occasion to redefine yourself. And there's no better way to do that than decked out in Steve Madden head to toe. You can go on there. You can get all the things. Check out the two pairs of shoes that I recommended. And of course, we have a code for you. So you can use code skinny 20 at checkout for 20% off your first purchase. You are going to visit stevemadden.com and use code skinny 20 for 20% off your next purchase. promo code excludes pre-order items. And again, the shoes you want to check out are the VALA.