The Bossticks - Dr. Justin J. Lehmiller On The Science Of Sexual Desire, Fantasies, Porn, Threesomes, & Stronger Relationships

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

#400: Dr. Justin J. Lehmiller is an American social psychologist and author. Lehmiller is a research fellow at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University. Lehmiller has authored books such as Tell Me What You Want: The Science of Sexual Desire and How It Can Help You Improve Your Sex Life and The Psychology of Human Sexuality. Today Dr. Lehmiller joins us to discuss sexual desire, fantasies, threesomes, and how sex can strengthen our relationship bonds.  To connect with Dr. Justin J. Lehmiller click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) Check Out Lauryn's NEW BOOK, Get The Fuck Out Of The Sun HERE This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by Wealthfront No One is great at something the first time they try it. And if you're unfamiliar with investing, getting started can be intimidating. Wealthfront does the work for you, so you can invest like an expert from the beginning. Wealthfront creates automated investment portfolios of diversified, low-cost index funds personalized for you. To open your account all you need is 3 minutes and $500 to invest. Right now you can visit www.wealthfront.com/skinny to get your first $5,000 managed for free.  This episode is brought to you by Bite Toothpaste Bite is reinventing personal care by making products that are good for you and the planet. Bite's hero product is their dry tooth paste tablets that come in a reusable glass jar and the refills come in home compostable pouches. You just pop one in your mouth, bite down and brush, it will foam up just like regular toothpaste but with no plastic tube or messy paste. Bite is offering 20% off your first subscription order. Go to www.trybite.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout to claim this deal.  This episode is brought to you by BEV Bev is a female-first canned wine brand that was founded to change not only the way a product is consumed, but the way an industry and culture have operated for generations. Their wines are dry, crisp, and a lil' fizzy, super refreshing and delicious. They have ZERO sugar and only 3 carbs and 100 calories per serving. We've worked out an exclusive deal. Receive 20% off your first purchase plush free shipping on all orders. Go to www.drinkbev.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout to claim this deal.  Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Pieces of advice to give is that a lot of people think that when it comes to sex, you just establish compatibility with a person, right? you meet somebody, you have great sex, and then, like, great, you're compatible. And they just assume that you're going to be compatible for life. And I think the way you need to think about it is that instead of establishing compatibility, you need to work at maintaining compatibility and have those continued conversations over time. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her podcast. This episode is juicy.

Might make you kind of horny. You never know. You never know with us. You know what I mean? It's sexy. It's hot. he gives some great tips for the bedroom. I mean, I wouldn't listen to this in the car with a kindergartner.

I feel like this is more of an episode that you and your husband should listen to on like a long drive. Or maybe just pull it up when you guys are at a hotel room. This is a sexy episode. We invited Dr. Justin Lemiller on and he is not afraid of the subject of sex. I'm very much about this. I personally think sex should be talked about way more. I don't get the tab. baboonness around it. I think it should be a very comfortable subject to discuss. It's how we all

got here. Most of us are having it. If we're not having it, we're watching porn. You know, you've got to do what you got to do. On that note, you should also know we're doing a giveaway for Wu at the end of this episode, the coconut oil loob. So make sure you listen to the whole thing. Okay, let's meet Dr. Justin Lemiller. Taylor's in this episode a little bit. We talk about casual sex, sexual fantasies, sexual health, lube, friends with benefits, how to make sex spicier with your husband, porn, all the things. And Dr. Justin Lemiller is going to guide us. He received his PhD in social psychology from Purdue University. He is the author of the book, Tell Me What You Want, the science of sexual desire and how it can help you improve your sex life. He's an award-winning

educator, super comfortable with sex, thank God. He's also a prolific research. He's a prolific research and scholar who has published more than 50 academic works to date, including the textbook titled The Psychology of Human Sexuality. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Justin, give our audience a little bit of context of who you are and what you do, because it's a very interesting profession. So I am a social psychologist and research fellow at the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University, and I studied the science of sex, something I've been doing for more than a decade.

And my main area is really, I try to translate the science for people in a way that they can use because most of us never got the sex ed that we needed or deserved. And so I want to try and fill in the gaps with science-based information. So if you were to be the micromanager of sex ed in 2021, what criteria and curriculum would we be receiving? Because I feel like what you're about to say, Michael would have been beating his meet in seventh grade. Well, listen, I'm thinking back to those classes are, they're not very helpful at that age. No, I mean, they're confusing. They are. I remember my sex ed really well. It was in the fifth grade and I was so excited the day that we were going to talk about it and I wrote sex ed

really big at the top of the page of the paper. And at the end of the day, I had written nothing because I knew less coming out of it than I did going in. So, Sex ed for a lot of people is pretty worthless. And so I think what we should look at are programs that actually work. And so there's one in the Netherlands that I love to talk about. I actually teach a study abroad course there pretty regularly. I have one coming up later this year. And we talk to the people who design this curriculum and it works. And the Netherlands, they have the lowest rate of teen pregnancies, teen STIs and abortions. It works. And so what they do is they teach people how to communicate about sex. They teach people the proper names for their anatomy. We don't

even say the word clitoris in sex education in the U.S. So, you know, they teach people what they need to know. And also, how do you have difficult conversations about sex? For example, what if your partner doesn't want to use a condo, but you do? You know, how do you navigate that discussion? And they actually equip people with the tools to do that. That's what we need. That is so smart. I completely agree with you. I even think in America, we're taught to tell our young kids, oh, this is like your woo-ha or your, I don't What do they call it for you? I don't know. Like your, like, your, your, your, your, your, you're, you're, your, I don't know what they call.

I don't think they call it a worm, but I want to raise my kids by calling everything by the real name from the beginning, not trying to sugarcoat our body and our anatomy. It's, it's, it's our body. Like, we can't say the word of what it is. I think it's so problematic. It just creates shame, right? Yes. Yes. Can you talk a little bit about shame and how you've seen maybe people that you've worked with experience shame?

There is a lot of shame. So one of the things that I study is sexual fantasies, the thoughts we have that turn us on. And it's really surprising how much shame and guilt and embarrassment people feel about their fantasies. And they feel this because they've never been taught what a normal sexual fantasy is. They are under the impression that, you know, it's just penile vaginal intercourse. And, you know, if you're into anything else, like, that's weird. So this is something that I see regularly. people write me all the time with questions from all around the world, is my fantasy normal? You know, that's the most common question I get. And so a big part of what I do is try and expand people's definition of what normal is. Odds are, you're probably normal and you don't have anything to worry about because most of us are turned on by and we want the same sorts of things. So I'm reading this book called Swing and it's this girl who is beautiful and young and she's

married and she has three kids and her husband and her starts swinging. And it's like a comedy how she writes it. It's very funny and light. I heard her on Juicy Scoop, Heather McDonald's podcast, and her book is just hysterical. What are some things that the general public doesn't know about swingers? Because she was enlightening me on this podcast about all these things that I didn't know about. So I actually do a lot of research on what we call consensual non-monogamy, which is any type of relationship where all the parties agree that you can have more than one partner. So swinging is one type of consensual non-monogamy, but there's also open relationships, polyamory.

It takes a lot of different forms. Something that I think people don't understand about swinging and about other types of consensual non-monogamy is that they kind of assume that if you have more partners, you necessarily have more STDs. And so I actually published a paper a few years ago where I compared STD rates for people who were monogamous and people who were consensually non-monogamous. And surprisingly, what I found was that there was actually no. difference in rates of STDs. And a lot of people would have assumed you would see the swingers,

the polyamorous, having much higher rates. But that wasn't the case. And so I think something people don't understand is that there's a lot of communication, a lot of safety precautions that people take when they're in some type of sexually open relationship. And so that lowers their risk pretty significantly. And then there's also the fact that when you look at people in monogamous relationships, there's a lot of cheating that happens. And when people cheat, they don't take. precautions. So cheating is actually a really high risk sexual behavior and higher risk than being in a swinging or other type of open relationship. Let me ask you this, because we've had people come on the show and talk about open relationships and we've had mixed reviews, different people

have different points of views. My only criticism of it is that, listen, it's a lot to manage one personality. I'm like 600 personality. So that's not fair. I'm a Gemini. I don't know what I'm getting each mind I got to figure out like what's happening. But I always think, okay, like if say Lauren and I were on the same page with that, when you add another person and another person, if they're like people develop feelings, right? And they might not be cool. Like how do, like how do these typically end? Like, do you, in your research, do they end fine, well, or is it kind of a shit Joe or is it kind of a mixed bag, a little bit of both? Like, how do you get everybody on the same page, especially as there's multiple people entering the stage?

So it depends. And it's, it's complicated, right? If you look at the overall level, people in sexually open relationships are just as happy, just as satisfied as people in monogamous relationships. And on some metrics, they're actually more satisfied when you look at things like sexual satisfaction. We see that those relationships can and do often work, but they can also get complicated and messy. Monogamous relationships can get complicated and messy. So my view is that any kind of relationship can work if you have the right skill set for navigating it and you have the right level of communication with your partner. So if you want to try swinging or some type of open relationship. You have to work really well in the beginning on communicating your boundaries,

like what is and is not okay. You have to recognize that things might not go according to plan and that you'll have to revisit your rule set. You know, that's something people often get wrong, is that they think the rules you create in the beginning are the rules that you have to stick to for life. And that's not necessarily the case. And if you decide it doesn't work, you can always go back to being monogamous. I do feel, though, it's a can of worms that once you open it, it's very hard to She'd kind of like be like, never mind, didn't work. Go back because, again, people are complicated. People are very complicated.

If being a sex researcher has taught me anything, it's that. What are some things that have gone real fucking wrong with swinging? And what are some things that you've seen that work really well? And maybe you can even talk about threesomes too, like both swinging and threesomes. There is nothing better than having canned wine on hand because there's so many times where you want to open a bottle of wine or you have friends over and you don't end up finishing the whole bottle. So if you have canned wine on hand, you can just give them a can, you can pour it over ice, you can add a straw to the can, make it super cute and bougie without opening the whole entire

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deal. That's d rindkbv.com slash skinny. Yeah. So I've actually done a lot of research on threesomes. And I've done this work because it turns out threesome is the most popular sexual fantasies. I published a book a couple of years ago called Tell Me What You Want, and I surveyed more than 4,000 Americans about their sexual fantasies. And threesomes were the most popular thing that people fantasized about. But threesomes were also the fantasy that were least likely to work out well when people actually tried them in reality. And part of the reason for that is because the idea of how a threesome would work,

it doesn't necessarily work that way in reality. And part of it is because I see that most people want to be the same. center of attention and say if you have three people going in and they all want to be the center of attention. You know, how does that work? I want to be the fucking center of attention. If I'm doing a first. Let's do a tangent. Here's my fear. It's like I would be in there the whole time being like, okay, like how much I got to do equal time? Do I disregard one person? No, no, no, no. I'm the star of that show. Yeah, but that's what, but then what happens the other person? It's my Broadway show. And then Lauren's like, maybe you could be off to the side.

I'm like, I don't really want to be on the side. If anyone's listening and they want to have a three-sum with me and Michael, okay, I'm the star. We need to go to like eight therapy sessions first. Let's just lay that rule out. I mean, so it's one of those things where you have to have a lot of communication beforehand so that everybody knows what everybody wants to get out of this situation. And a lot of people just have a few drinks and a threesome happens. And that's where it often turns out to be a bad experience. If you know everybody beforehand, you have communication, you can increase the odds of having a good time for everybody.

What about going to another country and legally hiring a sex worker? What about that? Is that something that you recommend over just getting drunk with your friends and like you end up having sex with one of your girlfriends with your husband? I mean, some people do that. This is a very specific question. No, well, I just want to know what the differences are. Well, so with the sex worker, you're probably going to know what you're getting and they're going

to want to make you happy. So in the study abroad course I teach in the Netherlands, my students also get a chance to talk to sex workers who do this legally and they talk about their experiences. And sometimes it's couples coming in who want to have a threesome. And they try to give them the experience that they want. That's an option that some people pursue. But, you know, it also, it just depends on the circumstances. So is it a couple that wants to invite a single?

Is it free friends who want to get together? Like, there's all kinds of ways to have a prism. For me would be... Wait, hold on. Turn on your mic because I have a couple. No, turn on your... No, I'm 100% having him jump in the show. I have a lot of questions.

Put your mic on. Once your mic's on, you come back on. Put on your mic. Yeah, you have to turn your mic on for this one because Taylor has some specific question. We've known Taylor since we were 12 years old. Okay. And he knows where all the bodies are buried. So I have to keep him back there. What I was going to say is for me, it would say, okay, ladies, there's two of you. You each get 30 seconds. Time to enjoy. Yeah. Let's talk about on that tangent. I remembered my question, which is why are guys so fucking lazy? Here's my experience with men. And I've talked to a lot of women, too. You get with someone. A little sexist, but.

No. It is a little sexist maybe. You get with someone and then the guy like just gets lazy. How can you like be like, come on? And Michael, by the way, I told Michael the other day, we were taking a walk. I said out of every guy I've ever been with, you're the best at foreplay. When you put in the effort and apply yourself, because sometimes it's like, don't roll me over and just stick your dick in.

Like that's not going to do it for me. You got to like get, you got to get something going. Taylor over here gives the girl 30 seconds, which is like, I mean, It's called the Quicky for a reason. No, I don't want a Quicky, though. How do we get guys... That's like lightning strike and I'm done. That's like I blinked my eye.

How do we get the guys to be a little bit more thoughtful? So I think part of that is changing the script for how sex goes. You know, a lot of guys approach sex following like this pretty standard narrative. And, you know, they see their orgasm is the end point of it. And it's all about how do I get to have that horrid? orgasm. And that's really a problematic way of thinking about sex. In the world of sex therapy, we call this the orgasmic imperative, where it's like you feel like an orgasm has to happen, and you put all this pressure on yourself to have one and kind of like have it as quickly as

possible. And I think a lot of men don't take time to just savor the other pleasure that can happen during sex and how just being in a high state of arousal for a prolonged period of time can be extremely erotic. Edgy. Egy. See? High five. Air high five. I've heard a lot of guys. You should actually do this. I've heard, and I don't know if you already do this, but a lot of guys are edging during sex.

And it's making it so much better to orgasm. Yeah. Not to get too graphic, but you know, there's sometimes I like stop, you know, and then I go, that's,

there's a reason. This is a show to get graphic on. This podcast could not come at a better time. We're going to Vegas tonight. Let me, I cannot wait to see your four places. I want to change gears. At least 45 minutes.

Sure. I want to change gears a bit here. So Lauren and I obviously very comfortable talking about sex. We do it all the time. we have a sex brand. Like we vary at the forefront of conversation. We communicate. We talk about what we like.

But there's a lot of people. And listen, our studies compared to yours are very limited, right? It's in a much more narrow view. But the biggest thing that we get feedback on from our brand woo and from, you know, people writing in is like they don't know how to talk to their partner. They don't have the confidence to just openly talk about sex. It's like this taboo thing. And a lot of what we try to do on this show is break down taboos in multiple areas.

In your research, like why are people so uncomfortable? talking about sex and how have you been able to either coach or work with people to be able to communicate with their partners about what they actually want. Yeah, we're at a weird place where people are more comfortable having sex than talking about it. And that's just really strange. And I think a big part of it comes down to the shame that we were talking about earlier, that people don't feel like they're normal. And when you don't feel like your wants, your fantasies are normal, then you don't talk about them. So the first step is really self-acceptance. You have to work on yourself and feel comfortable and confident in who you are and what you want. And that's a big

part of what I do in my book and in my blog and podcast, everything. It's all about normalizing this so that people can open the door to those conversations. And then when it comes to, you know, how do you talk more about sex? How do you talk about what you want? You have to choose the right time in place to do it for one thing. Ideally, when everybody's in a high state of arousal, because when people are aroused, their disgust response goes down. And so that sort of opens the door to talking about things like fantasies. Yeah. Like it doesn't gross them out if you're like, if I'm like, hey, daddy in the bedroom when you're about to edge. What? But how do you get people to that point? In your work, like, how have you seen it affect relationships when they do get to that point? Because

I imagine like our whole thing is that we feel like if you talk about it and you can communicate with your partner, everything's going to get better. You're going to have a better relationship. You're going to feel more connected, all those things. But I feel like, I feel like, like so many people get limited because they just, they're like so scared to tell their partner what they actually want. Yeah. So this is where you have to find some icebreaker, some ways to talk about sex, to start the conversation. And for example, if you want to talk about fantasies, that doesn't mean go out and say your biggest fantasy of all time or your kinkiest wildest fantasy. It's start low and go slow. Like start at the more vanilla end of the spectrum. Take turns sharing fantasies,

learn about what you want. Build up trust and intimacy. I can't wait for our dinner conversation tonight. If you think that you're going to get out of just eating sashimi, I'm going to quiz you. I want to know every single thing. What he means, Michael, is don't go from talking to Lauren about QuickBooks to then saying, by the way, will you toss my salad? No, that's what he does. He's like talking about QuickBooks. And I'm like, we're in bed.

He can't do that tonight. One of my fantasies is absolute silence from you. What is the most outlandish fantasy that you've ever heard? And I'm sure you've heard it all. I have. And I'm not saying you're judging the outlandish fantasy. I'm just saying what's something you've heard that you're like, wow, I've never even thought of that. Survey for Tommy what you want.

I asked everyone to write out their favorite fantasy of all time in their own words. They could say as much or as little as they wanted. And I read through all of those 4,175 fantasies. And there's one that stands out to me because it was just totally new. And it was the human cow fantasy. So this woman described her biggest fantasy of all time as being tied up. in the center of a town being force-fed hormones so that she would lactate continuously, and then people could come and have sex with her and milk her whenever they wanted.

Wow, that's specific. And it turns out she's not the only one with that fantasy. So I did a deep dive. I found that there are dozens of human cow erotic novels on Amazon. There are hundreds of human cow videos on porn tube sites, like this is a thing. And that's one of the things I like about my work is that I'm always learning about new sexual turn-ons. Hold on. So she wants, does she want to be a cow or does she want to be herself? It depends on the fantasy. You know, some people, they imagine themselves kind of as they are,

but they're sort of kind of taking on this role of a cow. Sometimes it's a woman's head on a cow's body. It kind of varies. How does the mind arrive to that? Because that's so specific psychologically to envision yourself as a cow. If you've never seen a cow or anything else, they obviously can't all. But you haven't seen a cow. Was Taylor, was Taylor the one writing anonymously about the cow fantasy. I'm not allowed to reveal that. So basically maybe. Just when I think this show that I've heard most of it, something like this comes up. I'm like, wow, wasn't expecting this on a Friday morning. Okay, everyone, don't be go Googling Red Tube cow. We need more cowbell. I'm going to put Taylor on the spot like I always do in every sexual episode. So Taylor's very open about

sex. He's come on this podcast many times and talked about his problem of coming too soon. We've gotten a lot of different tips for him. Yeah. Where would you tell Taylor to start? Like, what tools does he need in his toolbox? So there's little short toolbox, his quick toolbox. And is this a psychological, it's a psychological thing, Mosa, yeah? Or no.

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component and a physical component. Now the good news with premature orgasm, there are lots of things you can do to last longer in bed. So there are the self-help strategies developed by Masters and Johnson in the 1960s. One of them is what they call the start-stop technique, which is basically edging. Like, you masturbate to the brink of orgasm, and then you stop, you pull back. There's also the squeeze technique where it's like the stop-start, but you'd give the penis a squeeze to prevent the orgasm from happening. And basically, you're building up your ejaculatory control. And for some men, that works. You can also try the desensitizing sprays, the numbing. The numbing. agents to last longer. That works for a lot of guys as well. It just kind of depends what's right for you

in your body. The squeeze did not work for me. I tried the squeeze. Have you tried the desensitizing spray? Yeah, those work too. Some of them are a little bit more expensive, but they did work. Okay, Taylor. Taylor has a story, though, about the desensitizing spray, but one time he did it and he didn't tell the girl he had it, and then she performed oral and her mouth went numb, and she didn't know what the hell was going on. She thought I wasn't turned on. It was a whole ordeal. It was bad. She thought that there was something going because her mouth went completely numb. And I would been drinking, so I sprayed way too much and it just didn't work out well. Yeah, you also need to give it time to absorb into the skin so you can't just put it on and then

go right to it. So you put it on and your dick just went limp and she tried to blow you? It doesn't go limp. Why would it go limp? It doesn't go limp. It takes away. I'm sorry. I don't know. I'm not over here with a cock and balls. It takes the feeling away. Enlighten me. I would love for you to tell Justin and don't lie. And I don't act like you don't know because I don't believe you what your biggest sexual fantasy is. and I want Justin to dissect you on air.

I would say... Don't lie. Do not even lie. A blowjob from two girls at the same time. No, that's too vanilla. No, are you kidding? I don't believe it. I've even said that years ago, a fact check.

I've said that before in another podcast. You don't have anything like cow vibes? No, no cow vibes. So you're beating off four times a day and that's your fantasy that you found. No, that is just a fantasy that if we're talking about my greatest fantasy, that's it, for for sure, 100%. Hopefully no one's listening to this with kids in the car. What are some...

I think if they've gone this far with the kids in the car, then like, we didn't... We got bigger issues. Yeah, we got other things going on. What is the trick to a phenomenal blowjob? A phenomenal blowjob. And then I'll give you my tips. Well, so here's the thing. Like, I often get asked, you know, what's the best way to have this kind of sex?

And I think there's this tendency for people to assume that everybody's plumbing. Everybody's body responds the same way. And penises can be sensitive in different areas. And so there's not just one technique that's going to work for everybody. You've got to try and mix it up and do different things. So, you know, some people really like to have their balls played with at the same time. Some people like to have all the attention on the head. Some people like the full strokes, the deep throating.

You know, you kind of have to figure out what's right for your body. Taylor, what's right for your body? Ball fondling doesn't do it for me. There's not real much sensation there. I like a good ball fundle. Yeah. See? Everybody's different.

I just know over the years they're always like, because it works. Michael, I want to launch a product called Grab My Balls. How does it work? Like, no, the candles that we have, we have candles, sexual candles. Oh, yeah. Let's say, grab my balls. Yeah, we'll have to show you some stuff after this. Is there any tips for guys?

Because if there is women listening right now, they can maybe turn this part up a little louder so the guy can take a hint for going down on a girl. Yeah. So, yeah, this is one of those areas where guys don't know what they're doing because they're never taught oral sex techniques. And so I think it starts first, but guys have to learn a little bit about female anatomy. Figure out first where the parts are. Familiarize yourself with that.

And then it's a matter of trying some different techniques. So Debbie Herbenic at the Kinsey Institute published a study a couple years ago where she asked women about their preferred techniques during oral sex. And what they see is that just like with men, women prefer. a lot of different things. And so you have to mix it up and try different things. Don't just assume that because the oral sex you performed on your last girlfriend or partner, that your next girlfriend or partner is going to like it the same exact way. And I think that's where people run into problems is, again, they're following a script. They think everybody's body works the same. Everybody likes the same thing.

So you have to mix it up and try different directions, circles, like whatever. And pay attention to your partner's response and feedback because that's really the key. Yeah, I'm not the same as you're boring old vanilla girlfriends that you used to have. I'm different. I need a more dynamic eating out situation. Are you, is this directed at me? Yeah. I just don't. I feel like I'm all like, no, you're good in that department. You're good. I mean, I'm not like trying, you know, but I feel like it's, I can always improve. You could win an award. So what is the best, most sensual hottest sex toy that is new on the market that you like think is just so unique and different that's amazing and gives you tons of orgasms? Minus the ball grabber. That,

born's developing. I mean, God, there's been so much development in sex toys. And, you know, it depends what you're looking for. So I love all the different couples toys where you can get stimulation at the same time. And you can control them with apps on your phone. I love the remote-controlled sex toys where you can send your partner pleasure and how a lot of people use this for discrete public play. Like, they will go out and have a butt plug or something else in,

and their partner will send them vibrations during dinner. And so, you know, it's just a way that people can mix it up and try different things and be sexual without anybody else knowing it. That's one of the more fun developments that I've seen. Taylor, are you a butt person? No. Buts don't do it for me. Taylor's a little vanilla today, isn't he? I was expecting more.

He's back there lying. I know. You're back there like searching porn on the internet. I think that when it comes to sex and my friend Weston says this too, who owns Wu, he says that everyone is looking in every area to optimize this. their life. They're optimizing their sleep, their morning routine. They're being efficient with Uber and Postmates and Alexa. Their businesses. Everyone is like optimizing everything, but they're not optimizing their sex life. Why do you think that is? It's almost like people just get lazy as shit. But they take it for granted, right? They just think, oh, it's just like a thing. So it's actually kind of

surprising during the last year, despite how challenging it was during the pandemic, a lot of people did optimize their sex lives. So we actually did a study recently. recently at the Kinsey Institute, this was in partnership with Love Honey. And we did this nationally representative survey where we asked people what was going on in their sex lives. How are they feeling about their partners today? And a majority of Americans in relationships say they feel more sexually passionate about their partner, that their partner meets their sexual ideals now more than before.

They have an easier time talking about sex. And so there was something unique about this situation that kind of forced people to get in touch with their partner at a deeper level and a way that they did. didn't do before. And so that's one of the positive things to come out of the last year and half. You know, there weren't a lot of positive things. And that's one of them is that people got a little bit better at talking about what they want and changing the script a little bit when it comes to sex. There's nothing wrong with talking about sex. No. I came out of the womb talking about sex. Not really, but I think it's important for women to talk about sex. It's not a

dirty word. I want to talk about cheating. So I feel personally, in 2021, you can't get away with cheating. I don't know how. I mean, you have to be real good. You have to have hidden calculators, apps, all different kinds of things. I think that nowadays we're getting called out more. Why do people cheat in the first place?

So people are inherently turned on by sexual novelty. There's this thing called the Coolidge effect, which is basically the idea that the more exposure you have to a certain sexual stimulus, the less arousal you have over time. over time. So they've done studies where if you have people watch the same porn clip every day for a week, they show less arousal to each viewing. And so if you think about this in the context of a sexual relationship, if you have sex with the same partner in the same position in the same way, every time you do it, the novelty wears off pretty quickly. And so a lot of cheating is driven by that

desire for novelty to break the mold. And that's why one of the most common pieces of sex advice we give to couples is mix it up and try new things. Because if you're not adding that novel you're likely going to experience a reduction in desire, and that's going to open the door to cheating. Let's optimize this conversation. What are some new things that people can try in the bedroom right now? So in the Kinsey Institute, Love Honey survey, we asked people, what are the new things you tried last year?

52% of Americans said they tried something new. The most common new things they tried were to share and act on their sexual fantasies for the first time, to experiment with sex toys, to try role-playing, to try BDSM activities, right? actually I was surprised. The number of Americans who said that they engaged in BDSM increased by a third during the pandemic. So a lot of people on a pent-up aggression.

Can you explain what that is if someone's listening and doesn't know specifically like a really granular explanation of that? BDSM. It's basically when you eroticize power play. It can take a lot of different forms. Sometimes it's just one person taking a more dominant versus submissive role. It can involve bondage such as, you know, ropes and handcuffs. can involve blindfolds, so there can be some sensory play. And sometimes there's a mixing of pleasure and pain where one person is inflicting pain on the other and the more mild forms

that's spanking. And there are some who get much more intense than that. Let's take a quick break to talk about something that I am very excited to talk about. And we've been touching on this topic on this show for the last few episodes, namely episode 343, where I dive deep into how to invest in your future or save, achieve financial freedom. And then episode 385 with Ramith SETI, all about really diving deep into the topic of finances. So many people have written in saying they don't know where to start. They don't know how to save. They don't know how to invest. They don't know what their budget should be. And that's primarily because we're not taught these things in school, right? This is not something that's top of mind, but it is one of the most important topics and

something that affects all of us. That's why I am so excited to talk about wealth front. As you may know, if you listen to the episode on Financial Freedom, Lauren and I's primary investing strategy outside of putting money into our own businesses, is investing in low-cost index funds. What I love about index funds is anyone can jump in, and Wealthfront definitely can help you do that. And listen, I get it. You're sitting there saying, how do I save? This is daunting. This is overwhelming. I don't get it. I don't understand. And that's why I like Wealthfront so much. It is an easy-to-use platform that helps you create automated investment portfolios of diversified, low-cost index funds to open your account. All you need is three minutes and $500 to invest. There are no manual trades, no watching

the stock market, no more managing the details. Wealthfront's technology does it for you based on inputs that you control. So if you're ready to start investing and start saving for your future, I would definitely check out Wealthfront. Right now you can visit wealthfront.com slash skinny to get your first $5,000 managed for free for life. That's W-E-A-L-T-F-R-O-N-T dot com slash skinny to start growing your savings. Go to wealthfront.com slash skinny and get started today.

Again, this is how Lorne and I invest for our future. We save in low-cost index funds and wealth front is a great platform to get started. We have these candles that our friend Weston created and you can pour the candle. Like the wax goes on the body, which I think if you're just starting out, that's a good place to start. It can be, but it's important when you start to experiment with these things to do a little background research first, right? Because with candle wax, you don't want it to be too hot. You don't want to burn your partner. I kind of like being burned, though.

I like a hot shower. I like being burned. I'm fine with candlelocks. So our friend Weston, I know I keep bringing him up, but he owns the sexual wellness company. He came into our house and made our bed and on it is places for bondage, but Michael won't let me do it because he thinks I'm going to leave him there. And that's why you need to have a lot of trust in order to get to that point. I have to say, like, I'm not worried about being tied down in the bedroom. I'm worried about being left tied down. And what you need is a safe word. So, you know, when, you know, you're worried that you're tied up too long, you need a way to get out of that. There's a Stephen King movie about that where a guy and a girl, the wife gets tied to the bed

and then the husband has a heart attack and she's trapped there. Yeah. It's called Gerald's game and it's pretty freaky. Oh my God. He knew exactly what it was, Taylor. I'm impressed. There's a movie too if you want to get creeped out. Like a movie where they're tying people down and leaving them there?

No, a movie about that book. Oh, great. This will make me even more excited about getting tied down. I can't wait to watch it. How do you think that social media has changed the landscape of sex? For better and for worse, right? So in some ways, it's opened up new opportunities for sex ed and for conversations about sex. And so that's a big part of what I do every day, several times a day.

I'm posting about sex. And so it's a great avenue for sex education. We've also seen that people are more open about their sex lives in some ways, you know, where they're posting about what's going on. And so in that way, it's also normalizing conversations about sex. But at the same time, you also see a lot of sex shaming that happens on social media, where if somebody is open about their sex life, they will encounter a lot of criticism and pushback.

And that's especially true for women who are open and talking about their sex life. where they'll be judged more harshly than men are. It's a mixed bag in terms of its effects. Yeah, I notice that sometimes when I have conversations like this, I'll get DMs from people being like, why are you so polarizing? I'm like, I'm not trying to be, I'm just trying to be myself. Let me ask you this, because like, let's take social media and even in porn, we'll stretch it to porn.

Like a lot of these things are so sensationalized now. Do you think it's setting up unrealistic expectations for people in the bedroom and harming their sex life? A lot of people have a lot of things to say about porn. And most of what I hear is that people think that porn is addictive, it's bad, and the more porn you watch, the more problems are going to experience. What we actually see in the research is that most people report no effect of porn on their sex life, and you have more people who report positive effects than negative effects. And so I don't think porn is as bad as we think it is, but I do think it can give people unrealistic expectations for sex if they view porn as what sex is supposed to be. So one of my favorite analogies for the way you should think about porn comes from Tina Horne.

I was on her podcast a few years ago and she's a former adult performer. And she said, you know, the way to think about porn is like you're watching a cooking show and you're just seeing the highlights. You don't see all the things that go on behind the scenes like where they stop and apply more lube or take a break or, you know, have discussions beforehand about boundaries and consent. You don't see what happens afterwards. So, you know, you're just seeing those little clips and highlights and that's where porn can be misleading. So in the absence of sex ed, if porn is the only thing you have to rely on,

yeah, I think it can be dangerous and give people some wrong ideas. Wait, so you're telling me that when the woman bangs the pizza delivery guy, that's fake? I mean, that does happen sometimes. I know some delivery drivers who have told me about those experiences. I bet. I bet that happens. Yeah. I think porn is great. If the person's over 18, you got to say that. That's important for relationships. And it's consensual. Yeah, and it's consensual. I think it spices things up. But it's like anything, it's like you don't, you don't want to drink too much. You don't want to watch too much porn. I can see how it would be addicting.

I feel like you have to use it sparingly. But I think it's, I don't know why people are so, people are like so against it now. So there's a war on porn that's taking place. So we've actually had several states in the U.S. recently that have declared porn formally to be a public health crisis. And there are efforts to try and ban pornography outright. And I don't think that that's the right approach. I think...

Oh, good luck. Way to spend the taxpayer money, good luck. I think so much of it is that porn is just an easy target, right? Nobody wants to come out and be a friend of porn or an ally of porn. It's much easier to just attack it and say, this is the source of our sexual problems rather than actually looking at, why do we have the sexual problems that we do? Porn's the easy target. It's not the right target.

I completely agree with you. Taylor is a super active porn user. Taylor, when you search for porn, is there something specific that you're searching for? And do you have rituals when you set up your porn station three times a day? No, I usually just browse around. The good thing with the porn hub is from 9 to 5, he's browsing around. Is that they do a good job at putting the best of at the top. So you just browse through there. Wait, the best of though is the algorithm seeing what you've searched and curating them. top videos, not curated for me. These are just, I like to see what everyone else is in to.

Are you watching porn right now? What's that sound? It sounds like slapping behind that. Why are you clicking so fast back then? I would love to know, you mentioned that you spoke with a porn star. I'm sure you've talked to a lot of porn stars. What is sort of, I know you told us the behind the scenes during, but what is the behind the scenes in general of their lives?

Yeah, people have all these ideas about porn stars. One of them is that they assume that they're high. hypersexual and having sex all the time. And so I've actually seen some studies where, you know, porn stars outside of the sex they're having on screen, they're not necessarily having more partners in their everyday life. So that's one of the things that doesn't match up. There's also something that's called the Damaged Goods hypothesis, which is basically this idea that people assume that if you're in porn, you're a performer, that there's something

wrong with you, that you were a victim of abuse or that you have drug problems or something else. or that you have mental health issues. And the data doesn't support that either. The mental health of porn stars on average is indifferent from the general population. So I think a lot of the ideas we have about porn stars just they don't match up with the reality. They're real people.

And they have pretty normal lives outside of what they do on the set. As you know, I know you've heard it. I'm all about saving time. And this is a time saver. Okay. So let me introduce you to bite. Bight is reinventing personal care by making products that are good for you and the planet. Their hero product, which I have been using, is their dry toothpaste tablets.

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I get it, honey. It's your job. And then six months later, he's like starting to get jealous. Is that a thing that you've seen? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, being in a relationship with a porn star is not for everyone because a lot of people have a lot of insecurity about the idea of their partner having sex with someone else. So assume that means, well, they're not into me.

They're into someone else. Or they get jealous of, you know, their partner getting all of this extra attention. Yeah. And so that actually makes relationships more complicated for anyone who works in the adult industry. Have you seen the movie 8mm with Nicholas Cage? And the reason I'm asking this is because that movie takes a dive into what it's portrayed in the movie is a very dark sexual underworld having to do with pornography. What is that like? Have you ever come across anything like that at all? Oh my gosh. I have no reference here. So I'm just going along the ride with you guys. The human centipede.

No? No, no, it's not the human centipede. It's just he goes and he's trying to investigate a porn tape made on an 8mm film. So he goes to these very, very dark sexual. I don't know if they're clubs, but they're underground black market. He's like, I don't really know, but the writer's name. And the club's on 55th Street. I mean, I think with movies like that, there's a hint of truth to them.

And there is a dark underworld and porn and sex work, right? which we know about. But the problem is that I think everybody assumes that that's what all sex work and what all porn is. And that's where we run into problems because people automatically assume that any type of porn or sex work involves sex trafficking. And that's not the case. So, you know, we have to find ways to address the trafficking problem without stigmatizing the whole issue. Exactly.

Okay. This is my last question. In your life, in your sex. in your sex, do you feel like you're so equipped because of what you do? Or are you constantly working at it? And are you like a monogamous person? Do you have a girlfriend, boyfriend? What's your flavor? I did not get into the world of sex research until later. I didn't know that this was something I could do when I was growing up. And so it wasn't until my mid-20s when I was already in a PhD program that I realized sex research was a thing that I could do. What did you think you were going to be doing?

Back in the day, when I was in high school, I thought it was going to be a journalist or a lawyer or, you know, something, a psychologist. Like, you know, I had a lot of different ideas. And it's kind of fun that I've arrived at a career where I can combine all of those things into one. So I have journalistic elements. I work as an expert witness in a lot of sex-related court cases. And I have the psychology thing, too. So it's kind of cool that I have all of that, but sex is what ties it all together. I obviously my sex life started long before I was ever a sex researcher.

And, you know, I realized, like, when I was younger, I just, I knew nothing about it. And I think working in this area has taught me things that I wouldn't have otherwise known. And so I think it does have a positive impact in that regard. But in terms of my life, I've actually been in a relationship for 22 years. We met when I was a teenager. And we got married about a decade ago. So we've had to figure out, you know, how do you adapt things in a long-term relationship? And again, that's where the novel.

and all that other stuff is key in having that really solid communication with your partner and recognizing that you change, you become different people, different sexual people over time. And this is one of my favorite pieces of advice to give is that a lot of people think that when it comes to sex, you just establish compatibility with a person, right? You meet somebody, you have great sex. And then, like, great, you're compatible. And they just assume that you're going to be compatible for life. And I think the way you need to think about it is that instead of,

of establishing compatibility, you need to work at maintaining compatibility and have those continued conversations over time. Book, a podcast, a resource that you would leave our audience with besides your book, which I'm going to talk about in a minute for sex. Like if someone is feeling like they need to spice things up, where should they go? So there are lots of sex podcasts. I do run one. It's called the Sex and Psychology podcast. And I interview the experts about like the advice that they would give based on their research. And so how do you have a better relationship? How do you have a better relationship? How do you have a better sex life. And if you want to spice it up more, there's lots of other great sex podcasts. Sex with Emily is always a good, reliable bet too. Hi, Emily. Okay, tell us about your book.

Because this is why we wanted you on the podcast. You sent me a book. It's incredible. Tell us about your book, your Instagram, your website, all the things. Sure. So tell me what you want is the book title. And it's all about the science of sexual fantasies. Why are we turned on by the things that were turned on by. What are the most common fantasies? How do you talk about your fantasies with a partner? What do you need to know if you're thinking about acting on them? So it's really a how-to guide for sexual fantasies. And it's something that I think everybody needs to know more about because almost everybody has fantasies and almost nobody is talking about or acting on them. Oh, don't you worry tonight at dinner. I'm going to get him in the corner. And I'm going to say no business talk. And you think I'm kidding.

I'm dead serious. And I'm going to say, I want to know every single. single one of your fantasies. No, but, and listen, I think that's fine. That's great. We're going to do that. We're going to Vegas and, like I said, it's going to be a good time. But I do want to like point out, it's so interesting. It really is, Lauren and I obviously are outspoken people, which is why we do this show and we talk about all these things. But it's so interesting to me when we encounter people that are just so uncomfortable broaching this subject, right? Like they just can't, for whatever reason. And they can't do. And it's, it's, what's

crazy to me is, I feel like I've been with Lauren for so long. I could talk about anything under the sun, anything that's on my mind. And it's crazy to me. And it's crazy to me. And it's crazy to me when you get when you meet people and they've been with someone for 10, 12, 15, 20 years and they still can't talk about this thing. And it's like, you're sharing this life with someone. Like you've got to figure a way to break past that or else you're going to suffer in this area for forever. Absolutely. What is your Instagram handle? Where can everyone send you DMs about their sexual cow fantasies? I'm on Instagram at Justin J. Lay Miller, L.E.H. Miller. And my website is sex and psychology at sex and psychology.com. And you can find the blog and podcast.

there and I talk about the latest sex research and how you can use it to improve your own intimate life. I'm relying on our audience to send you something that you haven't heard before. Yes, send him something he hasn't heard and come back on the one. And hopefully you guys can all go follow at Human Cow. Your book is available on Amazon. It's available on Amazon. Anywhere books are sold. There's also an audiobook version that I narrated. I love it. Thank you so much for coming on, Dr. Justin. You're incredible. Come back anytime. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I hope you guys love this sex-filled episode. I know I did. It's so fun to have sex experts on the podcast. With that, we are giving away a bottle of Wu more play. It is coconut oil lube that's going to rock your world. I'm obsessed because not only does Boo look so cute on my vanity. It's also helped me so much with UTIs. I don't get them anymore because it has coconut oil in it. It's not that nasty, rat thick lube. Okay? This is great, chic coconut oil-based lube. You've got to try it. All you have to do is go to my Instagram at Lauren Bostic and tell us what you want to see next on the skinny confidential

him and her podcast. And of course, make sure you're listening to my podcast, get the fuck out of the sun. I just had Justin Anderson on and we go there. And if you're interested in grabbing the coconut oil loob and a vibrator, make sure you use code him and her for 20% off.