The Bossticks - Dr. Valter Longo On The Science Behind Dieting, Aging, Cancer Prevention, & What Really Extends Your Life

Episode Date: March 3, 2025

#813: Join us as we sit down with Dr. Valter Longo – an internationally recognized expert in longevity & age-related diseases. Discover the truth behind longevity, as Dr. Longo discusses the science behind living longer, breaking down the lifestyle & dietary habits that truly make a difference. In this episode, Dr. Valter Longo dives into the effects of fasting-mimicking diets on biological age & their potential role in cancer survival, the link between alcohol consumption & cancer risk, & how balanced eating impacts sleep quality. Tune in for a deep dive into practical strategies which may help you lead a healthier, longer life!   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with Dr. Valter Longo click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   To learn more about Dr. Valter Longo and read his book, Fasting Cancer, visit valterlongo.com. To learn more about Prolon visit prolonlife.com/skinny. This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn's favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential   Vacation or staycation, we've got you covered. Shop our Spring Break Sale, March 3 + 4, to get 30% off on products for your Spring Break checklist, visit shopskinnyconfidential.com.   This episode is sponsored by SmartMouth   Never have bad breath again! Find SmartMouth at Walgreens, Walmart, Amazon or visit smartmouth.com/skinny to snag a special discount on your next SmartMouth purchase.   This episode is sponsored by Fatty15   Fatty15 is on a mission to replenish your C15 levels and restore your long-term health. You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to fatty15.com/SKINNY and using code SKINNY at checkout.   This episode is sponsored by COVERGIRL   Superboost your laches with NEW Lash Blast Supercloud Mascara from COVERGIRL. Shop online or at your nearest retailer.   This episode is sponsored by Netflix - Running Point   Running Point, now streaming only on Netflix.   This episode is sponsored by Branch Basics   Visit branchbasics.com/SKINNY15 and use code SKINNY15 at checkout for 15% off + free shipping your first purchase.    This episode is sponsored by Dr. Diamonds Metacine   Visit DrDiamondsMetacine.com to learn more about the InstaFacial(R) Collection and use code SKINNY at checkout for a free sample of award-winning InstaFacial(R) Plasma with any purchase of $200 or more.   Produced by Dear Media

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And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Dr. Walter promised that I would live till 120 years old after I spoke to him. So Lauren's going to be stuck with me for a little longer. To start for people that are unfamiliar with you and your work.

How would you describe what you do? You know, what I've done for 30 years, actually, starting at UCLA here next door, is longevity, studies on longevity and aging, and particularly the genetic and nutrition that can make you live longer. So our genes affecting longevity and function, and how is nutrition controlling the genes

that control the aging process. Okay, so it all, from your perspective, most of this starts, with the food that we eat, and that's what contributes to a large degree how long that we live? Is that the hypothesis? Well, most of what you can do, right?

So the rest you're born with, and for a while you're not going to be able to change your genes. But the nutrition, and to a lesser extent, the exercise, that is able to control the genes, they control aging, and now it turns out also the genes that control rejuvenation, right? We're also starting, and we can discuss it, we're also starting to show that you can make organs

younger and people potentially younger by activating this reprogramming and stem cell-based rejuvenation effects. Okay. To start, and I know we're going to get very granular here, but high level, if you could wave a wand and prescribe a kind of diet to the majority of the population, what kind of diet is that? Yeah. So there are three things that are important. One is what I call the longevity diet everyday longevity diets, which is a pescatarian diet for adults, at least, pescatarian diet for fish plus vegan, right?

That seems to be the best. Let's say up to age 65 or 70, after that, probably you need to go more to a Mediterranean diet type of lifestyle. The second one is what's called time-restated eating, and this is how many hours you eat per day, right? And that should be 12, right? Some people, so 12 eating, 12 fasting, some people do it for longer, but we can discuss why that's not a good idea.

So 12 hours, 8 a.m. 8 p.m. That's it, right? Don't eat before, don't eat after. And the third one is what we've been focusing on. It's called fasting, mimicking diet. So is it possible that you can do this five days every maybe four months of a vegan fasting mimicking diet? So a diet that simulates the effects of fasting.

So you're eating, but it's as if you're not eating at all. And so now we have a lot of clinical trials that are indicating that these, reduces biological age and makes people more functional. We're also using it for cancer. We're using it for diabetes treatment and autoimmune disease treatment. So it's really also in the clinic for disease treatment, but there's a version that we've been testing on people that don't have diseases

to just stay away from diseases be more functional. If someone comes to you and they're like, my mom was just diagnosed with cancer, what do you typically recommend? Are you asking what kind of cancer or does that? not matter and what fast do you typically tell them to go on? Yes, for cancer patient, we followed thousands with the foundation clinics, which we have bought in Italy and here in Los Angeles. So it's a very personalized treatment, right? So we first

need to talk to the oncologists or, you know, learn everything they have done. And then we support the job of the oncologist. So usually we do three or four things, the same that we just described, time recidating eating. For cancer patient, we usually move it to 14 hours. because of data suggesting, for example, breast cancer women, they were fasting for 14 hours every day. They were living longer, right? So that's one of the things we adopt. And then the everyday diet, but we, for cancer patient,

is very different than everybody else because we want to make sure they don't lose muscle mass. They don't become what's called cacectic, sarcopanic, right? So we don't want them to be frail. We want to, and we want the immune system. The number one defense against cancer is the immune system. If the immune system becomes weaker, then the patient is less able to do that. So we adopt the everyday longevity diet, the fasting we're making diet, and also ketogenic diet. That's something else that we use, particularly with certain cancers, like glioma, brain, very aggressive brain cancers.

For that, we also use the ketogenic diet and we rotate all these different diets. You just make it very difficult for the cancer to adapt, of course, in combination with the state. standard of care. You know, and this has been working very well for many, many cancer. Of course, we have to wait and see where all the clinical trials show. But the initial clinical trials are very positive. And so, for example, for triple negative breast cancer, metastatic, so women that have this very aggressive breast cancer, which has gone everywhere in the body. The Vernieri group in Milan has just published that the four-year survival rate almost doubled. if they were doing the fasting, mimicking diet,

plus chemotherapy versus chemotherapy alone. Can you tell us a story about someone that had cancer, maybe talked with you, where you put them on a certain fasting diet and what happened? And can you also walk us through what you prescribed to this person to get them to the other side? Yeah, so it's a tricky world, right? Because obviously we don't want to give the impression that we, you know,

in a podcast we can treat patients. But I mean, I think, for example, a nice example is five cases. They came out of this larger study at the National Cancer Institute in Milan. And for example, there was one case where this was actually a friend of the chief oncologist who had stage four lung cancer. And it was just doing immunotherapy and it wasn't working. Then they added the fasting mimicking diet, which comes in a box essentially. So the immunotherapy plus the fasting mimicking diet, and this patient went into remission, right?

And then they published a paper on five cases, which were all stage four cancers, and all of them went into remission when you would not expect somebody in that advanced stage to go into remission. And so we've had a lot of cases like this, that we followed personally. For example, a judge here in Los Angeles that had a very aggressive cancer. And this is one of the first cases that maybe like 2009, I think. And then, of course, we followed thousands and thousands. But she was one of the interesting ones. She had a very aggressive cancer.

And then she did in those days long-term fasting, plastic chemotherapy, and she ended up being cancer-free. So it's one of our own stories. But I think, you know, I've rather rely on the clinical trial. Have you ever seen, and I don't know if you can answer this, the fasting work without the chemotherapy or is it usually together? We've seen it only for blood cancers and in a domain where we think it's very useful to talk to the oncologist and which is, let's say, leukemia's lymphomas in the watch and weight

period so where there's really not a treatment like for example CLL, a type of leukemia, a very common one we had a number of patients that have stayed for years without chemo because they keep the markers the lymphomaeum markers below the cut-off range right for chemotherapy so yeah so we I think in that case it's good to talk to the oncologists and these are published so these are in my book but there are also some of these cases are published and so I thought to the oncologist and see if in that watch and weight period, you can adopt just a fast-im-we-we-do longevity diet

and fast-emaking diet. And so far we've been very successful, at least with a number of patients. From all the cancer patients that you've seen, are there certain lifestyle factors that you can pinpoint that either contribute more or actually guard more against cancers? Like, is there a certain way that someone's living

that you can say, if you keep living that way, you have a greater chance of increasing cancer, or if you keep doing that, you have a greater chance of offsetting? Is there patterns or things that you see? Yeah, certainly there are hundreds of papers on obesity and overweight and the chance of developing cancer and the chance of the cancer progressing, right? So it's pretty clear.

It's not for all cancers, but for lots of cancers. And then, you know, 10 years ago, we published this paper, which got a lot of attention on people in the United States they eat high protein diet versus those they eat a low protein diet. And it turned out that those that had a high animal protein diet at a fourfold, increased risk of cancer mortality, which is a huge. Small group, but, you know, big enough to have a statistically significant effect. So did they determine what kind of animal protein?

Like what kind of quality? No, this was independent of the type. But in the group, and this comes from the CDC database, it's called Enhains. And so the Americans, the reported eating a high animal protein diet, had a much higher overall mortality, but especially higher mortality from cancer. Now, if they were 75, this is up to age 65. If the question was asked to the 80-year-old, then they didn't work anymore. So the 80-year-old reporting a very low protein diet did not seem to do very well. In fact, they seemed to do more poorly than those that had a moderate to high protein diet.

So I think it's, yeah, so young people are eating too much protein. Do you think that it's the animal protein or what the animal protein is injected? Like, meaning like, is it the antibiotics and the hormones and the non-grass fed and like, is it like McDonald's meat that's the problem or is it actually the animal protein? Probably more the amino acid content of the animal protein, which is very different. you usually uneveraged from that or the plant protein, right? So I think we, soon enough, we should move away from the idea of proteins and move into amino acid profile.

Some sources, even within plants, you can have a five-fold difference of content of certain amino acids from two different plant protein sources, right? And then clearly from plant protein to animal protein, you know, you can have up to tenfold difference in amino acid content, right? So you eat 10 grams of protein, one comes from legumes, and one comes from red meat. You can have a seven-eighth-fold difference in one particular amino acid. And so now we're going to publish, actually, a number of papers this year on that. And yeah, so amino acids seem to be regulating growth factors, which are clearly regulating aging, for example, IGF1, right? So something called insulin-like growth factor one has been associated with lots of

cancer for a long time and you regulate it with you make it higher with some of the amino acids that are high in the red meat but also in chicken and also in fish right so there's nothing wrong with animal proteins it's just the the excess of animal protein that Americans and Europeans now have adopted that's a problem in a book there we wrote about children in Italy we saw that children were eating two or three times in certain age range, more protein than every medical association in the world recommended, right? And so it's really a strange phenomenon because, you know, it's bad. It's not 20% increase. It's like a two-fold increase. And but, yeah, nobody's doing anything about it.

Can on that note, European versus American, as someone who looks at the data and obviously a big topic in this country is our food supply and figuring out, you know, the differences. And we spent, I told you, we spent some time over there. And when we go to Italy, we eat. kind of whatever we want without thinking about it and feel fine we come here and we have to be really thoughtful do you see the data sets presenting different numbers in terms of cancer presentations between European and American numbers but Europeans are very close to Americans now for almost everything Italians are a little bit better but not that much and they're moving very fast

so if you look at breast cancer incidents in Italy for women it was very similar to Japan right was very low and then in the last 20 years it's now caught up. The Japanese didn't, right? But the Italians caught up with the American thing. Why do you think that is? Well, I think it's because the westernization of the Italian diet. Now is very similar, right? McDonald's is everywhere. And so, yeah, there's just Western lifestyle is, it's almost the same in Italy and the U.S. A little bit better, but not that much. So when you look at somewhere like Japan that has lower incidents or lower cases, and then you look at somewhere like the U.S. and then now now following Europe, what do you take away from that information?

What are the big takeaways that we could? Well, I think Japan has somewhat been able to keep the weight down and the diet reasonably healthy still like Italians used to have and Italians have gone to high protein, high animal products. Yeah, so I think the Japanese now eat a lot of fish, but not necessarily a lot of red meat. you know so so I think that yeah the Japanese have generally they're moving in this direction like Okinawa for example now

is no longer used to be an island in Japan with record longevity and now not so much right so yeah they're they're also moving to the Western lifestyle but they're doing much better so far and they're still on top of the world for longevity right so Japan whereas Italy dropped a lot of positions I think to number nine now. Japan is still in the top one or two. What do you take from like places like Sardinia and Corsica that have that like why do you think that happens in places like that? Well I mean, Sardinia I think these areas of longevity I think had to do with genetics plus lifestyle right so they have it all like if you go little towns like Seuolo Villa Grande Stresaili

which were made famous for blue zones right so there is clearly this lifestyle was a lot of walking very good diet. And plus, they seem to have been born with the right genes. So you put it all together and that's where you get towns where, you know, people on average reach a hundred way more than any other town in the world. So, yeah. So I think that we've seen that in Calabria. We see it in Sicily. But we see it in a lot of places. This is probably everywhere in the world. So I think it's just everything combined. If you were to describe a fasting, mimicking diet to someone who has

no idea what that means in the most digestible, like, kindergarten way. How would you describe it? I would describe it as probably best to just get the one that is available, and you have to, essentially, because otherwise you will have to, you know, I have a professional following you the whole way. But it's a low-cut, it's a 800 to 1100-callery per day diet, right? It lasts five days is vegan, it's low protein, low sugar, and high fat. I have done prolon. Is that? Yeah, I cannot talk about products, but, but I mean, you know, because I'm the founder

of the company. So, yeah, I just stay away from that. But can you, so you can buy the fasting, mimicking diet through you that you. Not through me. Not through you. Okay. So you. But there's a company that sells it.

And, yeah, so I'm, yeah, I just have to stay away from any advertisement type of thing. If you were to do a fasting-mimicking diet yourself, which I'm sure you've done, are you curating it for yourself or are you using a company? No, no. The fasting-mitting diet, the recommendation for patients and non-patients is to do what's been tested clinically, which comes in a box. And, you know, of course, you cannot, well, now you, like for diabetes, there's a program and you can actually also get in a program for diabetes, a special fasting-making diet. soon enough there's going to be one for autoimmunities and there's one for people that don't have any disease and they just want to you know and so for example with this year we published a paper where we did three cycles of the

FMD and we showed that biological age was reduced by two and a half years so people became an average based on these markers that they were described by Morgan Levine at Yale people became an average two and a half years younger so So people can do it also just to be more functional. So these are a different version of the FMD, and they're all available commercially. I'm really interested to talk to you about this next subject because I feel like you'll have a different take. We've talked about this on the show a couple times, GLP1s. What is your thought on it?

Yes. So I just wrote an article for the Italian Corrie de la Cera on this, actually two articles. And my point was that GLP1 should be there if everything else failed with a professional that knows what they're doing. Now fails because you were on your own and somebody was overweight or diabetic and nobody really helped you and say, well, okay, good luck, go and change your diet and run. That's a system we have now. It says, is GLP1 or nothing, right? So I think that we should have that team that follows you, like we do in the foundation clinic, you know, and it's a nonprofit.

And so we can bring most people back. You know, so in the trials now, we show that with the fasting weekend diet, we can reduce drug use in by 70% of the patients. So that would be the idea. Even if you are in a drug, including GLP1, you should try to go back to full health. So you don't need any drugs. Now, if that fails and only after that fails with the team, the professional team, the follows you, and I'm not talking about a team very expensive.

I'm talking very inexpensive team, right? So it's something that could cost you literally $200 a year, right? So to be followed by the right people. So with a very small investment, now you have a chance to go back to your weight, the weight that you always wanted and the health that you used to have when you were 20 years old. And but if that fails, some people do need GLP1 agonist. and it might be psychological, it might be genetic, it might be epigenetic, right?

So people get modifications. So, for example, we work with these mice. It's called DBDB mice, right? And they have a mutation in the Leptin receptor. Technically doesn't matter. The point is that they're doom to become obese, right? There's almost nothing they can do. So, yeah, if you're born like that,

it's very hard, right? It's very hard. But that's a very small percentage of the population. Everybody else don't believe any of these stories that you hear. Your weight is fixed. We're taking so many people back to their normal weight. It takes about two years, though. It doesn't take two weeks.

When someone works with you and you're not using a gLP one and they want to get back to their weight that they were two years ago, what are the protocols that you put in place? What are the first things you have them start doing? Yeah, so we work with them psychologically first time. What can you sustain, right? So if somebody says, I have to have five stakes a week in my life is going to be miserable if you remove this, then we say, okay, keep the five sticks, right?

So we'll start with that, right? And then we try to figure out how close to the everyday longevity diet can you get. And by the way, the longevity diet is not a caloricided diet. It's actually a normal calorie, if not higher calories. So you get to eat more, but it may be normal calories, but now you're starting to get benefits weight loss wise and fat loss wise. But some people, say, for example, we always talk about a case of a doctor, doctor, Italian doctor, we put them on this longevity diet for nine months, nothing happens.

He has diabetes, hypertension, is overweight, nothing happens. And then we start with the three cycles of the fasting, making diet in one year, three in one year, and two the next year. So in one and a half years, it does five cycles, and now you see insulin resistance dropping, his weight dropping, and is now off Ozambic, he was an Ozambic, he was, you know, metformin, it did at all, nothing worked. And now he went back to normal weight and no drugs, right? So it's completely healthy.

He's been on like this for four or five years now. And I like that because he's a doctor. But you said it took nine months, nothing and then? Nine months of the diet, almost nothing. He lost like two pounds. And insulin resistance was high. His blood pressure stayed high, nothing changed. So this is the frustration of a lot of people because we change his diet, right?

And he was fine. He didn't mind to change the diet. So we made it this very strict pescatarian diet, nothing changed. Then we had the five cycles of FMD, fasting-making diet, in one and a half years, and now is that work. And it's only five days. If five days, yeah, five days by five. So 25 days in one and a half years that he had to dedicate.

But see, because the mechanism of insulin resistance and fat accumulation needs to be unlocked, This is why a lot of people say if you used to wait so much, you're going to stay there. That's true unless you unlock it. Once you unlock it, then you're ready to go into a fat burning mode. And this, of course, comes from our history, right? We used to eat a lot and to survive the winters

or the period where there was no food, right? So obesity is part of our history and it's part of our protection to stay alive. So if you don't become obese 10,000 years ago, you're probably not going to make it, right? So yeah. So that's the understanding that we need to treat people. I gained 60 pounds with both my babies. And would this be something that you, if I had met you, would you have said to help me get the weight off postpartum? Would you, is there a certain amount of time you should wait? Can you do it, you know, three months in? Can you be breastfeeding?

What are all the protocol for that? Well, first of all, and we discussed this in my book on children, you need to start earlier, right? You need to start with the mother and make sure that you help the mother not gain because it's very easy for women to say I need to eat so much because of the baby. But that's not true. And so the professional should help you gain only so much weight,

which is maybe like 15 pounds or something like that. I gained 15 pounds the first day I found out I was pregnant. Godtops going to go viral on TikTok, and it's not going to be me getting in trouble over one. Yeah, yeah. So, but, yeah, so there is, there are, there is a sad weight gain, right? And the professional, like, people in my foundation, the dietitians can help the woman just get there. And then, of course, you want to, as soon as the baby is born, then you want to start acting, you know, probably leave some time after that before the fasting, making diet. It would be like a month or two, you know, and then you can start.

And you can't do the fasting, mimicking. diet pregnant, I'm assuming. No. But to unpack that a little bit, what you're saying is there's, there's maybe a myth or a lack of understanding that exists where it's during that time you need to maybe eat more than you actually do. And it's careful. I'm being very, I'm being very careful.

No, but it's a natural. It's a natural. When I was pregnant, this guy tried to get in the way of me ordering Krispy Creams at 11 p.m. at 11 p.m. at night. And it was, I was like, literally move. He's like, you really think you need donuts at 11 p.m. I was, there was nothing stopping me. It was like a Pac-Man in my stomach.

No, I understand. And that's why we were saying, like I was saying, but the stakes before, right? Some people say there's nothing stopping me from eating five steaks a week. And that's okay, right? If that's something that you cannot do without, fine, you need to work with it.

And that's what the dietitians and the foundation are specializing. So they will say, okay, have that. But then let's work on maybe the bread or the pasta or the rice or, you know, let's try to counterbalance that we saw. something else. Or the 4,000 calorie smoothies. But I guess my question was, when you are pregnant, how much do you actually need to increase

your food intake, if at all? Or is it just you can still follow a normal diet and the baby and the mom are still going to be as healthy? It's not even more of like a food. It's more of like what is actually a healthy outcome for somebody that's trying to create a baby. Yeah, now I'm not an expert in a way, but it's in my book. But this is a standard. This is every doctor, every pediatrician in the United States is going to have that table and it'll say you only need to gain this much. That's it, right? But I understand it's not easy, right? And then most women gain a lot more than that. But I think it's important for people that listen, that may be in that situation to know, get a pediatrician or a dietitian that knows the exact, and they can follow you

and they can tell you exactly if you're, you know, even a pound above where you should be, right? And every week of the pregnancy. So, you know, I don't remember the numbers now, but, you know, those are tables that are well established and people should follow that. But, yeah, if you don't make it and you gain a lot more, okay, but now you can go to work after, right?

And yes, I think the great majority of people, probably not all, they gained a lot of weight, whether they were pregnant or for any other reason, we can slowly bring them back without drugs, right? In some cases, if they're already taking drugs, then our idea, as tested in the clinical trials, is let's try to get them off the drugs, right? And the trials so far, they remove in 50 to 70% of the patients, we were able to reduce drug use, right?

Or go to zero drug use, like I just described for that physician in Italy. This is really weird, and I don't know if you know anything about this, but what I remember from being pregnant is you get pregnant and like a switch turns on where you're starving. Like what first thing you wake up, I'm not ever starving when I wake up. When I was pregnant, you're starving when you wake up. And then whenever you need to eat, you get starving. And the problem is, is most people would say, well, maybe you need more protein or maybe, you know, you're not eating right, but you have aversion. So all of a sudden you have aversion to all these foods that you used to love. So I'll give you like an example. I love eggs, but when I got

pregnant, it grossed me out. So I couldn't eat eggs. So you have all these adversions and you can only eat certain things. So then you end up eating a bagel. But what does that do? It crashes the insulin. So then you're hungry again. So you're kind of in this weird spot where nothing sounds good and everything's gross, but you're starving. So you end up eating shit food. That was my experience. Yeah, no, obviously, so there are pediatricians and dietitians, especially dietitians that are specialized in this, right? And that's, you want to work around there, say, okay, you don't want to eat this, you have aversion to this, this, and this, try this, but you still need to get the nourishment. You still get the proteins, need the proteins, but you don't want to have excess products, right? And so, yeah, it's a job, right?

It's a job. And so in your case, like in any case, what should happen, which is crazy that it doesn't happen, is that the government and the insurances, have that dietitian follow you for so many hours a year, right? And there should be a lot of hours, especially in those nine months. This is not reimbursed. Most insurances and even government programs don't reimburse this. And this is why most women, you know, they don't have that. They don't have the person that you can call and say,

okay, I have a version to this, this, this, what shall I do? Like the question you just asked, there is nothing like that. And it's crazy, right? So I think that that's also, you know, with your podcast, it's something that you need to say this should be part of the healthcare system. Next time you want the Krispy creams, I'll show up with a box of Kiwis. I do like Kiwis. I mean, I like Kiwis.

Yeah, okay. Whatever you want. You kill me. You keep mentioning like teams to work with and you mentioned there's a team that's $200 to work with. Is this your team or is it a different team? Our audience is going to ask what team? Well, the Creakius Foundation.

It's a nonprofit foundation that we have clinics in Italy and clinics in the United States. Some people can contact the Creakius Foundation and say, I want to enter a program. And then, you know, it's based on income. Somebody cannot afford it. They can work with them. But the point is allow people to enter a program where you can be followed long term versus. just going to the hospital and, you know, and getting 15 minutes of a physician

and then going home and continuing to do the mistakes that you always made. So we could just link out this Create Cures Foundation and they can find the information. Yeah, CureCuse Foundation, and they can book an appointment. You can also do it, you know, online, and then, yeah, take it from there. But it can be fairly inexpensive if somebody cannot afford it.

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Only from easy, breezy, beautiful cover girl. What is your feeling on alcohol? What have you seen with alcohol? Yeah, with alcohol, you see that it seems to be fairly neutral overall. all, you know, for lifespan and, you know, there's some... Oh, I love Italians. Move me to Italy. I'm in the wrong country.

This is every American doctor would say, you can't do this, you can't do this. I'm going to Italy. Yeah, this is based on epidemiological data very extensive, right? So if you look at how long you live, people that drink a little bit, like say, three, four drinks a week or less, they live as long as anybody else, right? Now there was there's some data that suggested that people may have less cardiovascular disease That's pretty weak so the alcohol doesn't really protect you that much from from cardiovascular disease But yeah the alcohol truly it is a risk factor for certain cancers and a little bit higher breast cancer and a few others but very small effects

So what we recommend is always if you have told to your doctor and if you have other risk factors for that particular cancer for which alcohol is already at risk, don't combine two risks. So if you have a lot of breast cancer in the family, yeah, you might want to stay away from alcohol. And there is only four or five cancers for which there is a consistent association

of alcohol consumption and that particular cancer. So I would look at those and then determine, is this type of cancer something that was in my family? A lot of people in my family died of. And that's the case, yeah, stay away. But other than that, say up to four weeks, four drinks a week, very little evidence that it's going to do anything to your health span. What about sleep in relation to cancer?

Do you see people that are sleep-deprived spike more in terms of having cancer? Or do you see it not an effect as much as? I'm not very familiar with. I mean, in general, sleep is very, very important for longevity. and so for, you know, the number one risk factor for cancer is contrary to popular belief is aging, right? So by far, right? So even smoking disappears compared to 30 years of age. So the more you can reduce your biological age, the least chances you will have to get cancer.

So sleep is at the center of biological age is very important. So you need to find a way to sleep, right? So yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that we preach is, you know, stay away from food at three hours before you go to sleep. Oh, that's my problem. So if you can stay away, if you can't, it stays, you don't want to fast for five days. You would say stay away from food for three hours before you close your eyes. Well, I would say do eat for 12 hours and three hours before you go to sleep, right?

If you want to have the simplest of all. Wait, you have to, my brain doesn't think like this. So if I wake up at 7. Let's say 8 a.m. You can eat between 8 a.m. and 8 p.m. And then don't go to sleep until 11. If you want to maintain that. If you say, no, I have to go to sleep at 10.

Then you have to do 7 a.m. 7 p.m. Okay. So I like to go to bed at 9. Yeah, okay. Then you have to do 6 a.m. I mean, you can start at 7 a.m. And by 6 p.m. Okay.

You know what my husband, after this is going to be so annoying. Well, it's not good for you. He's going to be like, oh, why are you eating that assayee bowl in bed? He's going to be yelling at me. He hates it. Sometimes people think I'm strange. Like last night we went to dinner, but I knew we had a late day yesterday. And then I knew I was going to have to go to bed, like kind of right when dinner was ending.

And I just didn't eat the dinner. And it's not that I just, I don't feel good personally when I go to sleep, when I just ate. I feel like I get bad sleep. He's a fourth Japanese. Well, yeah, with that regard, I don't know how that matters. It does. It's the, I've seen the way that your mom is and your grandma with food. It's different.

It's different than Americans. I'm telling you, I've watched. He, they'll be the best cake you've ever had in your entire life. You've never had a better cake. He will eat it. Like I'll cut him a piece. And then I'll look down and he'll get up. And on the plate is like four bites left.

Me, if it's the best cake, I'm eating the whole cake. Well, I eat to be satiated. Yeah, he eats till he's, it's very interesting. Well, you're disciplined, right? And so it's good. I mean, you can do it. Most people can not. I don't even think it's discipline as much as like last night I just knew, like, I was a little bit hungry, but I knew I was going to just not feel great.

If I, I don't like eating that close and then running upstairs and going to sleep. I just feel like it ruins everything. But I was going to ask you, is it better in some scenarios to cut yourself off like that and then get the better sleep? Or is it more important to actually eat the meal? I don't think there is anything wrong with once in a while if you, you know, if you got to eat at midnight, eat at midnight. That's okay. Okay. I mean, the brain, what you don't want is to have this frequently.

I mean, I think it's good to keep very regular times, like the circadian rhythms, right? So you want to stick with a regular plan and the brain likes that. But then if once in a while you violate, it's okay. I mean, you know. You just want to be consistent. Yeah. I mean, you know, you don't want to violate every other day or three times a week, right? because then you lose the benefits.

And I think it's perfectly fine to not eat, right? You know, and people are obsessed with this idea. I'm always interested, entertained by when I see some movies and the, you know, and the people haven't eaten for like two days and they think they're going to start with that. It takes two months, right? To start to that. But it's funny, right? Because in the popular understanding of things, people think after two,

or three days, I just watched this movie about this rugby team that died in the Andes Mountains of South America. I don't know if you're familiar with that movie, right? And then like on day two or three, they're stuck in the mountains and the plane crashed, right? They start saying, well, we're going to starve to that. And, you know, they're like two months away and they, they were found then after 45 days. I forget what it was. But yeah, so, so skipping a dinner, my point is... Not at the end of the world. No, it's nothing. It's not the end of the way. And so it's good for you, right? It's good for you.

As long as you don't do it so often, they become malnourished. Well, I guess in this country in particular, the portions are so massive. And there's this pressure. It's like, you've got to finish your plate. I mean, a lot of people, like, finish your plate. And I don't know. I always just found that to be strange because I feel like you eat until you're satiated. And then if you're not hungry, like, it's more of a portion thing than is this.

But this is an Okinawa practice, right? There's an Okinawa. This is part of their rules, right? Yes. You live a little bit on the plate, right? So this is, yeah, so somehow you got that. It's great. It's great.

And most people don't, right? Most people don't, you know. So I would probably not leave anything. This is why, for example, Monday to Friday, I don't eat lunch, right? Because if I eat lunch, then I gain weight, you know, like everybody else. So, okay, we've talked about intermittent fasting on this show before, and we've had all sorts of different people come on and talk about these different windows. You mentioned right before we started that 16-hour windows may not,

tell me if I'm wrong, please correct me. 16-hour windows may not be great for many people. Right, for most people. Yeah, so the problem with the 16 hours is that in most cases, they involve skipping breakfast, right? And so you get more benefits than the 12 hours, because, of course, you're only eating for eight hours a day. And so a lot of people say, no, do 16 hours,

because look at me, look at the results that I got. But our specialization is making you live to 110 or 100, let's say, right? So we say, yeah, short term will be great for you. Long term is associated with increased overall mortality, increased cardiovascular mortality, and lots of other problems. So what does it mean? That probably it gives you benefits and then problems at the same time. You just don't see the problems until much later.

Now, and this is the breakfast keepers. We have very little data on the dinner skippers, right? But for breakfast, this has been known for 30 years as meta. It was called meta-analysis, the studies of all studies, very clear, right? Over and over and over in every country that has looked at it. So a breakfast keeper do 16 hours of fasting, they live shorter, right? Now, people argue well because the breakfast keepers also have other bad behaviors, and that's why they live shorter.

But yes, but my question to those that argue like this is why don't doesn't, if 16 hours is so beneficial, then why doesn't at least make you go back to a normalized ban? Why does it actually shorten it? This is not good when in epidemiology you see something associated with worse, right? Then probably forget that, right? Don't do that, right? So why do they think it shortened it? What is?

Well, one reason last year, several papers were published and and they took people to the hospital right and gave him the food right they gave him exactly the same food and so they fed them starting at 8 a.m. or the same food but started at 12 and the people that started at 12 they had the slower metabolism lower energy expenditure and more hunger right so just by and they fed him the food so they knew it was exactly the same food so yeah that could be part of it but it could be worse right it could be worse we know that for example cholesterol increases during fasting and then it comes back down.

So 16 hours could be affecting some bad risk factors that keep. So every day, let's say you have a peak of cholesterol. We don't know. Maybe it has nothing to do with that. But those are some of the things I think you need to be investigated. Is it possible that these peaks of cholesterol every day are now eventually going to increase your cardiovascular risk? But short term, do you like to implement a fast like that for people that want to do a reset

or want to manage weight a little more effectively. Do you implement it at all, or do you tell people to just shy away from the 16-hour fast? No, we tell people to stay away. We tell people the 12 hours. It's great. It's going to take you longer, but it's something you can keep for the rest of your life. Once you get there, you'll feel this is nothing. Like, I do it, and I don't feel like, oh, if I could eat for another two hours,

that would change my life. So to me, it's completely irrelevant. But you miss lunch five days a week, right? Within that. Yeah. Then I had to, because I eat a lot at night, right? And I have, you know, a good breakfast and then I eat a lot of night. And, hey, to me, there was the compromise.

You know, I like to eat. And, you know, I'm Italian. And especially when I'm in Italy, it's impossible. You know, dinners are all the time. And, yeah, so I had to go move to Monday to Friday, no lunch. And, you know, and we use this with a lot of patients to come to the clinic. And you suffer for the first couple months. because your brain is telling you for two months or so.

At least I suffer for a couple months. A lot of patients feel the same way because your brain is telling you where's lunch, right? But then after two months, it's just like the breakfastkeepers. Like most breakfastkeepers say it's really effortless. To me, I don't feel like you have to eat breakfast. But it happens to be effortless but causing problems. Lunchkeeping, there's no evidence.

But for the average person then, say, if they could stop eating from 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. and then eat in the window from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., go to sleep at 10 p.m. That would be like a healthy way to diet. That would be the healthiest way. And then also if you added no lunch five days a week, that's taking it up a level. And then what I'm hearing and tell me if I'm wrong, you would also add a fasting, mimicking diet at five times a year? No, no, not five times.

Not five times. Two to three times. I'll say in the 20 to 40 years of age, I would say two to three times a year, right? Unless you need them more, right? So somebody gained a lot of pounds because they were pregnant or for whatever reason. Then in the clinical trials, we've done once a month until phase B, right? And I think it's important for patients because for people, let's not call them patient. For people because you do the five days and then you can go back to your whatever it is that you do, right?

And no changes in lifestyle other than the five days. So, yeah, for people that have a bigger problem, we can start, we can do, we usually do once a month, and then we move them to, you know, maybe three times a year anyways or four or five times a year starting in a year too, right? So, yeah, if you're obese and you have diabetes, you're going to need to put more effort initially. So 12 months, consecutively, five days, FMD. And, but this is we taught there all other things, right? So the doctor that was telling you about it was implementing all of it, longevity diet, the 12 hours, and the fasting making diet, and only did five in one and a half years, right,

even though he had diabetes and he was obese. How much did he lose? He lose 30 pounds. So it almost sounds like to me, and I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but it has the similar effects that Ozempic has, but in a natural way and it balances your insulin levels. Yeah. So, first of all, I don't want to sound like a commercial or an infomercial. So we take, this is a university work. We take it very seriously. And we've let other universities do it independently of me.

So that's exactly right, right. So no limb body mass loss if it's not combined with drugs. The only time we see muscle loss or bone density loss is when we combine the FMD with drugs. If we do it in three or four trials now, no drugs, no muscle loss. OZAMPIC, etc., a lot of muscle loss. OZAMPIC, a lot of GLP-1 agonists, you know, Ozmpic, I'm not familiar with the OZMPIC-specific literature. I say, GLP-1 agonist overall muscle loss, bone density loss, and now the new study in JAMA optomology, a big increase in ischemia,

nerve is chemia, you know, which is just, I think, part of the side effects, right? Yeah, so I think that why drugs are overestimated and overvalued is because they're easy to do, right? But then I think we're not thinking the fact that they're interfering with normal metabolic programs, right? So now you gLP1, you're forcing this activation of this hormone, but the body is really in another modality. And so that's when side effects happen when you're either interfere with something or force

something that is not normally there, with that coordinated with the general response. So the first thing we're making that is basically going back to what we've always done and unlocking in a natural way, that insulin resistant, that fat storage modality. And of course, you know, 10,000 years ago, you wouldn't want to lose muscle while, you know, you switch back to a fat consumption modality. And sure enough, you don't lose muscle. And why don't you lose muscle? Because we see stem cells being activated, including muscle stem cells. And we see cells being reprogrammed, right?

So the evolution has probably already set a method to make sure you don't lose muscle mass. Or if you do, you lose it temporarily. And as soon as you feed, you regain the muscle mass. And that's exactly what we see in the trial. I love Netflix. Who doesn't love Netflix? Netflix, little popcorn, maybe some sour gummies. I'm good.

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Enjoy. On the note of muscle, do you see a correlation of greater cancer risk or less cancer risk with muscle mass? Or do you not see that data at all? Meaning as the people that present with cancer or with that, like, do you see any indication that muscle impacts cancers in the body or no? I think that, I don't know. I haven't seen data on that and people would normally not look for muscle and cancer.

But for sure, if you get into a state of frailty, that's a very bad sign for an oncologist, right? So if a patient loses muscle mass, usually that patient is getting in trouble, right? It means that the system is failing and, you know, the patient is becoming frail. And with the muscle, I think, is the immune system, as I was saying earlier, right? So, yeah, so you don't want, this is why in our trials, in cancer trials, we, so we published one with women with breast cancer, and we had an exercise regimen, muscle. And the women actually gain muscle mass, you know, during the one year of therapy. So, yeah, so it's very important to keep the muscle, but it's very important to keep the proteins as low as possible and keep the muscle. So in that trial, we got actually angry with some of the physicians

that were overfeeding the patients between fasting-emicking diet cycles. And this is probably why the women gain muscle mass. We did not want that. We wanted them to keep a normal muscle mass and then fight the cancer, right? So, but that's a special situation, but because you asked me about cancer. So ideal, you keep the diet, you know, in a way that keeps the growth factors, insulin, glucose, It's law, but not too law. And then, you know, you have muscle exercise so that the women or men can keep, you know, a good muscle mass.

Okay. And then the follow up, the second thing, which we haven't talked about, are there, when you run the blood work, are there any supplements or vitamins that you suggest people take or levels that they manage in order to stave off cancer or to combat it once it's there? I mean, different people, there's lots of studies looking at the U.S. population. Most people are missing something, right? So the best thing you could do is just make sure that you're not missing B12 or D or, you know, yeah. So I would say, you know, a multivitamin every couple days, omega-3,

those seems to be the ones that people are missing the most, you know, one of the many vitamins. And so if you have a multivitamin every other day and omega-3, fish oil, every other day. That's pretty good already. That's probably going to catch the great majority of the deficiency. It doesn't seem really to be anything that is confirmed to prevent cancer. Yeah, so the people that say have a lot of vitamin C, they don't see. Most studies would suggest that minimal effect on cancer. And that's the one that has been mostly talked about for cancer, right? Vitamin C. So, but yeah, having high vitamin C.

I mean, see intake or supplements that doesn't really prevent cancer. You know, there could be some things that they do, but none that after 30 years of people looking, I haven't seen a single one. Before you go, you have to tell us what you think made your book so incredibly successful. The Longevity Diet was an international bestseller. It translated into over 25 languages sold in more than 30 countries around the globe. and you were also voted one of the 50 most influential people in Health Care by Time magazine. That book obviously struck a nerve with a lot of people. What do you think about that book when you're reflecting on it was so impactful?

I think it was probably the first book that didn't just say, I'm going to use, let's say epidemiology, the studies of population to make decisions. That's what a lot of what you hear. It was, you know, 30 years of work with the centenarians, the mice, the people, people, the clinical trials. And so I think people appreciated that all of that being put together. Of course, it would be almost impossible for anybody to be able to put it all together. And so because it was my job, I think I was able to, and I work with some of the best people

like Roy Walford here, UCLA and some of the best scientists in the world in this domain, you know, collaborate, let's say, with the Harvard School of Public Health and there's great, great work coming out of that school. Yeah, so I think putting it together for people in a way that it was fairly straightforward for them. But also it was, I think they got the message that this is probably not going to be proven wrong in two years. It's not a fad that, oh, okay, he's got a new idea, a new diet. It was more, here's what 30 years of work by me and many laboratories and many people that we collaborated with. And also those that we didn't collaborate with.

Let me put it all in a book and give it to it. you in a way that tell you a story, first of all. And I think the storytelling was also important. I didn't make it about a manual. It was more like, hey, I got to Chicago from Italy. My relatives had diabetes, and I never seen diabetes. They came from Italy. They were all from Italy.

And a lot of them had diabetes and cardiovascular disease. And none of my family members in Italy had diabetes. So it's the same genetics, but all of a sudden, yeah, so that's a storytelling. that I think for people was also important to see that, you know, or me being a biochemistry, having a degree in biochemistry and still having a terrible diet until I went to Walford, I'd say, you have a biochemistry degree. Shouldn't you have a good diet? No, I didn't. I have a terrible diet when I first got to Los Angeles and I had high cholesterol, high blood pressure is a 25-year-old, right? I mean, I was starting to get there. So, yeah, so those are the things

that I think that made it successful. Where can everyone find your new book? where can they ask you questions. Fasting cancer is the title. Comes out February 2nd. Yeah, so Instagram, Professor Walter Longo, Instagram, Facebook and then the Create Curious Foundation

and please contact them and the book is by every random house. So, yeah. Thank you for coming on. I am going to talk to you about trying my fasting, mimicking diet twice the year.

Okay. Thank you. you.