The Bossticks - Emma Grede - Founder & Partner Of Good American, Skims, & Safely On How To Build A Career Of Your Dreams, Network, Hustle, Communicate, & Get It All Done In Style

Episode Date: April 22, 2021

#350: On today's episode we are joined by entrepreneur and all badass Emma Grede. Emma is the founder and CEO of Good American as well as a founding partner of Skims and Safely. On today's episode we discuss what it takes to build the career of your dreams, how to network, how to keep hustling, and how to communicate effectively. We also discuss how to go from humble beginnings to absolute business boss and the sacrifices you need to make along the way.  To connect with Emma Grede click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Sakara This year, turn your resolutions into reality. Whether you're looking to try plant-based eating, build an empowered body, boost skin's glow, or simply feel your very best, Sakara makes it easy to create rituals that last. Sakara is a wellness company rooted in the transformative power of plant-based food. Their menu of creative, chef-crafted breakfasts, lunches, and dinners changes weekly, so you'll never get bored. And it's delivered fresh, anywhere in the U.S. And right now, Sakara is offering our listeners 20% off their first order when they go to www.sakara.com/skinny and enter code SKINNY at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Coors Pure Things are hard right now. But, to be honest, living a healthy life has always been hard. When it starts to get overwhelming, grab a Coors Pure. Coors Pure is an organic beer that is aggressive about balance and meets people where they are with enthusiastic positivity. It's organic, but chill about it. Visit www.coorspure.com to see where you can find Coors Pure. Celebrate Responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Albany, Georgia.  This episode is brought to you by Phexxi Phexxi® (lactic acid, citric acid, and potassium bitartrate) Vaginal Gel 1.8%, 1%, 0.4% is a hormone-free, prescription birth control used only before sex. Phexxi works to maintain the vaginal pH level to prevent pregnancy and you only use it when you need it! Be sure to tell your healthcare provider if you have a recent history of 3 or more UTIs per year. Learn more, including all risks at Phexxi.com Produced by Dear Media 

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help you guys fucking love it. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

And again, I employ a lot of people. So there are the Googlers and then there are those that will come and ask. And either is completely fine. but you definitely have a different path if you're a person that's just going to figure it out. And so again, I talk a lot about knowing what you don't know and that being like a superpower that I think I have. And so I've always surrounding myself with people that know what I don't know. So it's like then get people that are really good to support you around you, Emma, that will be, you know, running the finance department or doing the things that you're not so good at.

Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her podcast. We have a good one. you today. Emma Greedy. She is the co-founder and CEO of the inclusive fashion brand Good American. Chloe Kardashian is the other half of the label. She also works on skims. And boy, oh boy, does she have a story? She's also a founding partner of Skims, no big deal, and Safely, which is Chrissy Teigen and Chris Jenner's new clean living line. She's major. And boy, oh boy, does she have a story for you guys? It is wild how she got to where she is.

She is a hustler. She's cool. She is beautiful and she is here to switch up the game. What she's doing with Good American is so cool. They have product sizes ranging from 0 to 24. It's designed to fit and flatter all body shapes. I know I've talked to tons of women and they have all said across the board how incredible good American jeans are.

I have heard it from every different size. They're so flattering. I've tried them. They're body suits. They're all amazing. And skims, we know this got me through postpartum. I told Emma this. It really holds you in and just makes you feel like your best self. So both of the companies she is working on are badass. She's a mother. She's a wife. She also works with babyto baby.org. And I think you're going to love her. I personally, when I was listening to the episode, sort of forgot that I was even in an interview with someone. I was so intrigued with her story. And it's something that I would totally listen to while I was getting my nails done or folding laundry or cleaning the kitchen because it's so informative and so motivating.

Like the whole time I was like, wow, this woman's a hustler. She is so inspiring. I know our entire audience is going to love this episode. With that, let's welcome the Emma Greedy co-founder and CEO of Good American and founding partner of Skims and Safely to the Skinny Confidential, him and her podcast. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. I feel like we have a ride or die entrepreneur in studio. You have done everything. For those who are doing everything.

Doing everything. Doing the most. So I would love to know when you were little back in your childhood, were you always entrepreneurial? Can you pinpoint little things that you did that you look back on that you're like, oh, I am entrepreneurial. I've always been. 100% no it's the truth you know i definitely was a kid you know i wasn't a good kid i didn't make friends

easily i don't think that you know in that traditional sense you know i didn't have this like climbing outdoor like childhood where i started businesses really young that wasn't my journey at all i came out of school i was a dropout actually like a college dropout as you would say in this country And I had a fixed vision of what I wanted my life to be like and the idea that I wanted to work in fashion. But I never thought, I didn't know any entrepreneurs. The only entrepreneurs I knew were like people that were doing things they probably shouldn't be doing. Like drug dealing. Like those.

That's an entrepreneur. They're the only ones I knew. So I didn't have like an example of what that meant or an example of really starting your own business. But I just thought wherever I'll work like, I'll claw my way to the top of that. So I was very, like, focused. I loved fashion. Like, I loved clothes to the point where I would, like, cut things out and collect them and any kind of glamour, those supermodels that were so big, like Kate and Naomi when I was little,

I was so drawn to that. But I definitely, entrepreneurialism just wasn't even in my vocabulary. So where did you grow up because you have the most beautiful accent? Oh, thank you, darling. If you were an English person, you would know that it's not the most beautiful accent. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, as I should say. So this is not the Queen's English that I'm speaking. Well, can you do the Queen's English accent first?

I wish, do you know what? I wish I could. I'm not even, like, I can't even get it out. You can't. They speak very, very nicely, you know, and very gently. And I drop all the airs and the T, so I say water instead of water. And then I've like softened it since I've come to America. So people can actually understand what I'm saying.

And that they know I'm not Australian or South African. I'm English. So you try to, like I've seen. speak with better accent here than I probably did at home. But I'm from East London, which is the equivalent of coming from Englewood or the Bronx. It's like the kind of rough side of London. And actually I credit kind of being born there to a lot of my kind of attitude and aptitude in the way that I approach life, because it really was a tough place to be brought up. But by the same token, I was surrounded by all of these brilliant people, like by characters,

and by a way of living that was like truthful and honest. And it taught me that hard graft, right? That you just, like, there was no choice but to work. I didn't grow up thinking, oh, I wish, like, I could be, like, famous. I grew up going, I wish I could be rich. And I'm going to have to figure out, like, what is the work that's going to get me there? Because there was just no idea of, like, you know, that stuff happening to you. It was like, what journey am I going to go on?

How hard can I graft to get to work? where I want to go. I think that's, I mean, we talk about this all the time. I think it's such, in a way, and maybe you don't feel this when you're growing up, but I think it's such an advantage to come up the hard way because, one, you appreciate hard work, two, you're looking, you know you have to work. And three, your drive is so much higher than someone that's maybe been given things. 100%. I think about that, actually, in relation to my own kids, right? Because I'm like, oh, like, we live in Bel Air. Where do you get the drive from? I really wanted things. Like if I was going to get a pair of LA gear sneakers, I was going to have to figure out where

that money was coming from. And it does drive you. You know, I've worked nonstop since I was 12. I had a paper round when I was 12 and I have not not had a job since then. When you said that growing up there was like Englewood or the Bronx, what are some things that happened that were similar? Or are there shootings? Are there drug dealings? Like what was happening that you see the parallels? You know, it's all going on in those areas, but I was lucky I have a really, really good family. Like my family was my foundation. So in a way, I was sheltered. I don't think I was sheltered from what was going on, but I felt very safe growing up. Also, the people that may have been doing things were my friends and my neighbours. So there was never anything that I felt scared. I was part of it.

I was part of a neighbourhood and, I guess, a community that was just a bit rough around the edges and they did what they had to do to get by. So there was never anything where I was like scared to come out of my front door. It's just, you know, perhaps not where if I was moving back to London And today I choose somewhere else to live. And that's the honest truth. But again, I think that that character just gets in you, right? The way I do business and the way I think and the way I approach things were all really informed by having that childhood, by having this idea that your word was king, that being

really honest had some kind of weight to it. Like, I still believe those things now. And also, like, this idea of just like a way to treat people. Like in East London, you treat people. really well unless they show you otherwise. And that's what I do every single day now. It doesn't matter if I'm employing you or you're somebody that I meet through someone. Like I immediately assume everybody is good and everybody is interesting and everybody has a story until I'm proven otherwise. I love that assumption. I think like it's the same thing with trust. I'm one of those people like

I trust you 100% until I don't. I feel like it's so it's so much harder to interact with people when you go in and your guard's always up and you're like, I'm not going to trust you until you prove it. I'm not going to really give you my respect until you earn. It's like, that's a really difficult way to get into relationship. But I think a lot of people approach it that way. A hundred percent. And also because the way we meet people now, right? You're not just bumping into people on the street or meeting them through your family or acquaintances.

Like, I'm speaking to random people online in my DMs. And so I have to assume that you're a good person and not an axe murderer for me to engage with you. And that's just like part of how we're living now. And I think that you're going back to my kids and how I'm raising children. Like, I teach them. Like people for the large part are good. Like most people are. And then you have to be wary and have your defences and know what to be looking for.

But I don't think that's the way to go into anything. And I think actually, again, as an entrepreneur, I'm very trusting of situations and of what I'm trying to create and that people are going to come along on a journey with me. And I think you have to be that way inclined and be very open by nature if you're going to be an entrepreneur. I totally agree. Michael and I talk a lot about intention. We always think that people.

most people, I would say 95, 98% of people go into something with the right intention. Yeah. I like to assume that. Doesn't always mean they land on that attention. But they start that way. I think the intention's right. I want to know college dropout. I have been very outspoken about for me how I think college was a complete waste of time. Listen, I'm not saying everyone, if you're going to be a doctor or a lawyer or whatever and you think college is the right path for you, you do you. But you mentioned your college dropout. I would like to explore that. did you drop out? What did you pursue when you dropped out? It's a great question and I think about

this all the time because I have so many girls that say to me, I'm having a really hard time or I'm not following. I was never a good student, right? I'm dyslexic, which I didn't find out until I was 21. So while I was in school, I was just like a bad student. I also was a bit of a bad student. It's like I was more interested in honestly like boys and going out and different outfits that I can put together than math. I just thought, math is a waste of time. Like we have calculators. am I learning algebra. So I was never a particularly good student. And then I got to the London College of Fashion, which for me was like my big calling. I was like, I'm supposed to be here. I'm in the centre of London. And then I just wasn't feeling that either. And for me, the big

unlock was that I went and did a work experience placement. And I thought, I learned more in that two weeks than I've learned in the first eight months of college. So what am I doing? But the big deal breaker for me was the money part. I just couldn't afford to be in college. My mom had moved out of London. I was like, how am I paying for this? Like, I just, I wanted to stay and I was at that point, like a trained King student, but I just couldn't afford it. And so I dropped out with a bit of regret at the time, but I just thought, I've got to make ends meet. Like, I need to live and it just wasn't working for me. So that was the main reason. In hindsight, and hindsight, it's a great thing, but it didn't, it didn't hinder me in any way. I was just like, I'm not going to fall off of my path.

I think often the choice for people is that if you're all dropping out of college, because you don't have enough money. You also, that correlates with you not being able to pursue your dreams. And for me, I was like, all right, taking it really back to basics, I want to be in fashion, I'm going to work in a store. And then in a store, you meet a stylist, and then you meet someone in show production, and then so on and so forth. But I think I was focused enough to let it not pull me out of, like,

where I intended to be entirely. I want to stay on this a little bit because we get this question a lot. There's a lot of young people that listen to this show, and they talk about school. And our answer always is if your parents are paying for it and you can go enough. Like by all means go, have fun because you're not going to take on the burden. But if you're someone that's taken on massive debt and you're not quite sure about what you want to do, maybe think about that or take a few years off because you get out of school and you have hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. And you're still not even sure if you like the path you're on, but you still got to pay back that debt.

And it's like to get a job that can pay that debt right away is it's going to take a while. Hold up. Let's talk about cores. That's right. Cores. Michael and I have been Coors fans forever. Like I'm telling you for so long, but they just launched a Coors Pure. This is organic beer. I don't know if you know this about me, but I'm a huge beer fan. I always have been, but I'm just really careful about what beers I drink because sometimes it goes to the gut, if you know what I'm saying. But this one is an organic one. It has zero sugar,

okay? So it's guilt-free. And you can get your work out. in, you can eat healthy, you can do the wellness trends, but sometimes at night you just want to wind down with a beer. And I was so excited when Kores told me they're launching Kour's Pure because, like I said, it's an organic beer with zero sugar, but it only has 92 calories. It's also crisp. There's nothing worse than a beer that isn't crisp, and this one is crisp and refreshing, okay? I'm telling you, you're going to love it, your significant others going to love it. It's a simple beer with organic barley, organic hops, and water. 92 calories, like I said.

How I like to drink it, if I'm being real, is I like to pour in a cup over ice, maybe a little tahine rim. Add a lime. It is delicious. Coorspeer is the perfect beer to celebrate the winds of everyday life. So when you want to enjoy a beer without the guilt, reach for Coors Pure. It's organic, but chill about it. So go to Coorspeer.com to see where you can find Coors Pier. Celebrate responsibly at Cores Brewing Company, Albany, Georgia.

If you're a wellness freak like me, you're going to love this beer. I'm telling you, organic is the way to go. Cheers. 100%. And also, like, what I realized very early on, I remember being in this particular PR agency, and it had no one had qualifications. I would ask the boss. I would ask the account director.

I'm like, how'd you get here? And I was like, well, I used to work at Ralph Lauren. And then they put me over here. And I literally was like, it's just about who you know. I want to fake it until you make it, bitch. Literally fake it until you make it. So it was either they'd come for a connection. And again, I was from East London.

I had no connections. Or they had just happened upon a job or they'd come from a brand. And so I quickly looked at my situation and was like, everybody here has no specific training to be here. It's all about getting in, networking, having some passion. I thought, I have all of that. Like, I didn't have the people. I was like, I'm going to figure it out. And I just did.

And so I think in certain industries, like you say, if you want to be a doctor, like, God help you. If you're not going to be in college, like, don't treat me. But for a lot of jobs and a lot of the things that we're doing, like, for me, it was also, like, practicing what I preached. I was working in a clothing shop. And there was a lot of access. So when a stylist came in and I'd be bagging up their order, I'd also ask them, like, can I assist on the shoot? And they'd be like, yeah, like, but we're not paying you. And I'd be like, all right.

Like, then you would do things like that. You would just stick your neck out. I worked seven days a week for four and a half years, like just no holidays, no days off. But that was fine because I was just trying to get my foot in the door and I thought that was the best way to do it. Don't you feel as an entrepreneur? Sometimes I feel like a fraud because I was also a terrible student. And not that I'm so successful now, but I think to myself, like I feel like a fraud, sometimes

I'm like, I was a bad student, but what I'm good at is I'm good at hustling and going after and I'm good at networking and getting to me. And I feel like that's like the majority of what entrepreneurship is. business, like meeting the right people, working your ass off. It's also creative angles. I think you have to have creative angles. Seeing things that others don't, but I think you guys are 100% right. There's also this other thing, right, that again, going back to the background, I had emotional intelligence. I could read a situation. Oh, please talk about that. I want to talk. I'm listening to a podcast on this right now. Yeah, talk about emotional intelligence. It's so important. So I didn't know,

I definitely didn't know the term, right, ever until I read that brilliant, brilliant book by this Daniel Goldstein or whatever his name is, but incredible book that if you haven't read, you should read But that idea of being able to read a situation and understand what other people are thinking in any given situation, but not reacting immediately, right? I was very, very good at seeing what was needed and understanding the situation, even if, I'm being really honest, half the time I was in these work experience placements, I had no idea of the bigger picture. You know, you're told to pack a bag, send it out, do some cuttings, be part of this event.

and you really don't know the broader strategy of the brand because you're on the agency side and you're really uncoupled from the bigger picture. But I had enough sense to know when I was adding value. And I think that emotional intelligence is something, and again, which is why I like to imply so many women in my business, emotional intelligence can get you really, really far. And actually, I think that most super successful people that I know have both sites, right? They can be super analytical with an amazing education and great experience. but without that emotional intelligence piece.

Like robots. Yeah, you're not going to get anywhere. So much of my job is about understanding people, reading the situation, knowing when to talk, knowing when to come in, knowing when not to, knowing who to partner with. And unless you are really, really switched on in your emotional intelligence, you're never going to get there. For someone that maybe doesn't know a lot about emotional intelligence, can you maybe point to an example? It could be any story in your life where you used emotional intelligence. Yes, it's a great question.

I wish I was one I was more prepared for. Well, don't worry, we can cut it if you have to think of time. I think I'd probably use that every day, right? I look at the younger people in my office, for example, and I'll often find myself in a situation where it will be the time for staff assessments, for example. And it can be a very tense time, right? You've got a bunch of, we try and do it all in one week because these things drag on

otherwise. And you can see, you know, people want to talk about them. money that they're getting. And there's that, you know, literally, that is what they want to talk about. But actually, the way we do it, a good American, is that we uncouple the two things, right? So we give you an opportunity to talk about your wage. But also we want to understand the performance aspect of what you're doing. And I think when you take the two things apart, it's an amazing tip because they've got that out of the way, like what they need to live, this big, like, elephant in the room, which is what everybody cares about, like, how do I get

from X to Y? And then you have a really intelligent discussion with somebody around, their career and what it is that they are looking for and what you need as an organisation to get out of them. And I think it is probably a really emotionally intelligent way to approach something like that because it's really important when you're running your business, your people are everything, right? We have the product and then we have the product. And the product coupled with the people is so, it's everything, right? You need your people to be able to perform at an optimum level for your business to be able to go where you want it to. And there's a lot that goes into that, it's certainly not just about people management, but it's one huge, huge part of it.

There's something you touched on briefly in the first part of the answer, which with emotional touches you said, waiting to react. And I think it's such an intelligent thing to say because we live in a time when people are so reactive. Everything, something happens on social or on the news and like people have to react and say something and do something right away. And I think it's really important for people sometimes to take a step back and think about what their reaction and response will be. And I wanted you to touch on that a little bit as it, plays into EQ because obviously you're a thoughtful person. And it sounds like that part of it, the EQ match with timing your reaction is just as important. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And again,

it's something that I think you get much better at with age. For sure, I didn't have that in my 20s or maybe even in my early 30s. But again, a lot of that comes, I think, with some level of experience, right? We know that we've been wrong in the past or that we've misjudged a situation. And hopefully as you're older, you've done the work. I have a brilliant therapist actually and he says, you know, you do the work or the work does you. And hopefully you've done enough work both on yourself and been in situations where you know that that kind of knee-jerk reaction often isn't the best one. It also is so much about you than the situation, right, how you intrinsically react to something. And so that might not be what you want to bring to a situation in a professional capacity. So for someone like me who has done a lot of work on their anger and their very quick thinking, I know that default, the first thing I might think, is probably not the way to react to a situation. I love when people who are so successful and seem like they have it all together talk about therapy. How has therapy helped you become a better mother, better businesswoman, better entrepreneur? In every way imaginable, because I just feel like, again,

our lives move so fast that to be introspective is something that's really hard to find time for. and the work ain't getting done unless it's on my schedule. I know, but it's like eat healthy, have sex, run a business. You got to like have connection time with your husband, your kids. It's impossible to get it all again. And you don't. And that's the big thing that I told myself like super early on because I think especially for women of our generation, there is this notion.

You know, I grew up watching sex in the city and it was like, you can have it all. That was an underlying message to me of the entire series or the entire. higher thing. And I just don't think you can. And I'm not sitting here saying, you can have it all. You absolutely do not have a banging career and a banging sex life and be the best mom ever and put your outfits together every day and read on the side and indulge in your hobbies and then like make it for cocktails. It doesn't happen. And so this notion that you can have it all is just false. And actually it's setting women up for a fall. You can have a lot. You can, I'd almost say, have it all, but not all the time. And you've got to reckon with you.

that. This is real life that we're living in. Nobody lives like that. It's just BS. Do you know what I mean? So I just sit here and say to myself, I don't want to be one of those people that perpetuates a myth of having it all. That is not the case. I moved to America three and a half years ago. And guess what? I don't have a lot of friends here. And all of my really great mates that I would probably be going out with however often you go out in London, don't see me very much because I'm in that point in my career where my kids and my job and my husband in that order probably are like the most important thing and so I don't like have a bang in social life like that's the truth wow you and michael to get along real long real I don't think i don't think you i love that you say you can't because people always talk about

balance I'm like there's no way because there's no you have to be out of balance like if i'm focused so heavily in work or my wife like the other thing has to not be in focus like michael i'm so with you because i just i often say this it's like if i have a sick kid i have a sick kid where's the balance in that i'm like my meetings all get canceled and i have to go to the doctor because I don't like the nanny to go to the doctor with the kids because that just feels like bad mom vibe. So, you know, it's like then I do that. And if I have a deal to close or something massive going on at work, then I'm not home at 5.30 like I usually am. But again, it's like it's all part of the myth and the bubble that tells you you even should and you deserve. Like,

what we're living is life. It's not perfect. Like that's just the point. You don't have it all together, but nor should you. And it's that idea of having to keep up with the Joneses or stay on top of everything. It's like, I'm absolutely not on top of everything. But I make, like, rules in my life as to how, like, how I'm going to approach it. So I'm much more in control. Instead of like, you know, what is that great saying? It's like you either make the day or the day makes you or something. It's much said much better words than that. It's like I literally am so focused with what I'm doing that I don't allow myself to go off track. I get that. I fully get that. But I think you couldn't do what you do unless you were focused like that. It's impossible. It's impossible. It's the only way.

And to have that level of focus means that something's got to give. You can't have everything. Well, I think a lot of people feel guilty about that, but I don't think they should because it's not necessarily meaning that you're lacking in other areas. It's just when you're focused on one thing, you have to be focused to be the best you can be in that area. There's this article by Mark Manson. It is such a good article. And it's a lot of what you're saying. And it says, what is worth the struggle?

And like, it's the same thing. You have to pick and choose what you're willing to struggle for. And it's exactly what you're saying. You can't have it all at once. I think that's so smart. So I want to know the in-between of when you were assisting stylists to when you moved here three years ago. What happened in between there to get you to America? I could not be more excited to partner with Sakara. I am telling you, the skinny confidential has been obsessed with Sakara since I started blogging, which is so gnarly. That was like 12 years ago. I've been obsessed with their mission. I think you. You guys will love it. Basically, it's a wellness company rooted in transformative power of plant-based food. They have these organic ready-to-eat meals, you guys, that are so powerful in plant-rich

ingredients, and they're designed to boost energy, improve digestion, and get your skin glowing. I am such a fan, too. I have to shout this out of their tinctures. They have this beauty water tincture. I put a couple squirts in my water. And I also use their sleep tea to wind down. So not only do they have this amazing food delivery process. program with plant rich meals, they also have all these little wellnessy cute things on their site

that you have to check out. And like I said, each thing is targeted for energy, digestion, and skin. The two founders of this podcast have been on our podcast before and they've talked all about their journey and they really put their heart and soul into this service. I'm telling you, if you're at home right now, a lot of us are and you want to jumpstart healthy living, you've got to check out Sakara. They have the best plant rich meals. Like there's a menu of creative chef-crafted breakfasts, lunch, and dinners, and it changes weekly, so you never get bored. It's delivered fresh.

They do all kinds of cool things. There's like microgreens on top and all different kinds of vegetables. And they also deliver anywhere in the United States. You should know they have rave reviews from Vogue, Goop, and the New York Times. They also have rave reviews from me. I have to say I'm a fan. I've got Michael hooked on their stuff. I order it.

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and healthy living. Enjoy. Oh, so much. It sounds so glad. It sounds so glamorous. Like assistant stylist, I probably did that like a handful of times. I was really working on the shop floor selling clothes. So I want to get that bit right. So I worked in a lot of stores for a long time while I was like trying to get an education before I dropped out. And then I stayed. I got a job in a fashion show production company. And that was really great for me.

It was basically event planning, but for fashion shows. So you would meet everybody that you needed to meet in that business. But the end of the day, it was my job to like take the stage down, like take the catwalk apart after. thing. It was not a glamorous job. And I was very quickly like, oh, this is the worst. It's also really soul-destroying to work in a job where you do something for six months. And then the show happens in 10 minutes and you're der-rigging. I was like, this is the worst job ever. It was awful. But actually, I learned tons. And then I fell into this, like, strange world of sponsorships and brand partnerships, which at the time was like, you have to go back, God, I feel so old. So, like, maybe 15 years now. And it was the early, early days of those things happening.

There were no such thing as influencers. They were just really massive celebrities. Like, you were either Angelina Jolie or you were no one. And, you know, and they were just big brands. Like, it seems now there's like a billion tiny, like brands. Like there was like Laurel and Chanel and Dior and HM. Like, you were either a big one or you just didn't exist. And so my job was working with fashion designers and artist to partner them.

And I did that for maybe five or six years, but I was paid terribly. And so when I went to ask for the pay rise, because, you know, you can, you directly see the income you're bringing into a business when you do sponsorship. You have to talk a little bit about that. Seeing all the income that these celebrities are making, I mean, I think about that a lot. Yeah. And so did I at the time. And I was on no money.

And I'm talking like I was on no money. You know, when I started my first business, so I came out of that business and kind of set up on my own. And the reason I came out of that business was because I was being paid really poorly. And I thought, well, I'm just going to set up my own company. So I went from earning 25,000 pounds a year, which is like $30,000 to $35,000. And I was like, wow, I just made a 10 grand increase. That's the best thing I've ever done.

And then you have all the pressures of having your own business, which I wasn't aware of. And I found really, really good partners that could essentially give me like all the back office infrastructure, HR, legal, accounting, all the stuff that as a very dyslexic person would make me stay up at night. How old are you at this point? So I'm 22. So you're 22 and you're figuring out you need infrastructure to build a business. That's very young. Well, someone told me you needed infrastructure. I honestly do remember, let's make a correction, I was 24 just to get the math right.

So I was 24, was still super young. And the guy who wrote my deal at the new company who is now my husband, Yen's greed, which is not more interesting stuff. Yeah, seriously. That was pre-me too. He literally wrote down on a piece of paper, you know, you'll be in charge of your own P&L and, you know, you'll get this and that and this is your deal. And I went home and Googled like, what is a P&L? Like I had no clue what anyone was talking about. I want to point this out because there's so many people, and I'm sure you experienced this too, that drop in my DM and say, how do I start a blog? How do I do I do quickbooks? How do I do things like this? And what you just said is the easiest answer. You Google it and you fucking figure it out. You figure it all out, and I really did. But again, that's instinctive, right? Because a lot of people, and again, I employ a lot of people. So there are the Googlers. And then there are those that will come and ask. And either is completely fine. But you definitely have a different path if you're a person that's just going to figure it out. And so again, I talk a lot about knowing what you don't know and that being like a superpower that I think I have. And so I've always surrounded myself with people that know what I don't know. So it's like then get people that are really good to support you around you, Emma, that will be, you. you know, running the finance department or doing the things that you're not so good at.

But I found that actually I was really good at contracts. I just had a knack for being able to negotiate. And again, comes from the background. You're a hustler at heart. So you know how to give and to get and how to, you know, advance a conversation and make like a mutually, you know, beneficial outcome for all parties. And that was to me what I was trying to do. It's like, I'm not trying to beat one side against the wall. That wasn't negotiation.

or trying to bring people together. And I happen to be really, really good at speaking to either side. I think that's so important, though, the contract stuff, because I think so many young entrepreneurs, they'll get a deal presented and on surface, it sounds like a great deal. But if you negotiated the wrong where set up the wrong contract, like it could be a terrible deal.

Oh, we're terrible. I mean, it can be terrible. And also it can last forever. You know, if you do the wrong deal, I've had so many friends approach me and say, you know, I'm doing this and they're talking to me about IP and they're talking to me about rights or they're talking to me about in perpetuity.

I'm like, go. that? Like, do you mean you're coming to me? Like, Google it and figure it out and definitely don't sign contracts. But I was really, really good at the contract piece. So I found myself in this little company that I'd started by myself initially and then got a little bit of backing. And I started to employ people. My job was really brand partnerships. That's what I did. I was in the early days of like celebrity partnerships commoditized how they are today. And then found myself kind of six years in in this wave of influencers when influencers had no, there were no agencies. What was that like when you had to evolve your business? It was really tough,

but again, I didn't really see it as a change. I feel like there's been this red thread for everything I've always done. And to me, a contract was a contract. It didn't matter if I was like negotiating coverings for catwalks with some, you know, a builder's merchant or if I was doing like a deal for like the hottest fashion blogger of the moment. Like for me, it was all one of the same. I love the red thread. That was genius. And it's true. it's really interesting. And even when I think about it now, you know, I got really, really good at saying no a lot, right? That's just what I did. You had to really think about it and say, is this the right thing to take now? Because it's like a ton of money, like probably not. And so I said no to some clients. And then you'd be like, damn, you know, we could have had this retainer with X, Y, Z. Lo and behold, like something else would be around the corner. So I really, really learned how to like to pace the business and to see a bigger picture and to have a long term plan. But again, that's a was because I was surrounded with good people who were like, hang about Emma. Like, maybe, maybe there's another way. Maybe we shouldn't look three months out. You could probably

look three years out. And how long did you start dating your husband while all this is going on? So I started dating my husband about a year and a half after I joined the company. Okay. And so simultaneously, it sounds like he's good at one part, you're good at the other part. Did you guys start building something together or did that not come to later? No, it came much. Much later, actually, Yens had a really big company that he then sold to, it was called the Saturday Group, and they sold it to Omnacom. And I was one small cog in the wheel there. So there were many me's and him and his business partner, Eric Torsdinson, they're at the helm of that. And so there were lots of people or managing directors running various divisions of this company. I definitely couldn't take credit for that. And I also never thought that I would work with Yens like that. You know, like I never imagined there was no. like grand plan to go off and and do businesses together. And it's actually only very recently that we've looked at each other and went, oh, look, we have all these things together. How interesting. Well, you guys know what that's like, right? I get it. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. I get it. So,

so at what point did you decide you wanted to go to America? I did the kind of business, like, thing that you should never do. I started a business while living in another country. And the business was predominantly based here. So when I started good American, I was a good American, I was At the end of my... And it was a US company or was a English company? It was a US company. And obviously it was Chloe and I. And I honestly thought it would be a slow burn.

Oh, sorry. That's what it was all about. You're talking about good American. I thought there was another one before. Well, and in fact, in my agency business, you know, I had offices here. Actually, right here, this was my first office building in L.A. And I had an office in New York. And I failed miserably in L.A.

I had to close it down. I underinvested. I pulled the wrong staff in. So I'd had like this, to me, it was like a huge failure because I had, this very successful company, probably like the best company in that space, or at least the second best company in that space. But I failed miserably when I came to LA and New York was a thriving, growing business for me. And so I'd no intention to believe in that. I'd spent 10 years as the founder and CEO of that business. I loved every person in it. And what

happened is I started working, I'd already been working with talent and influencers. And then I started doing a lot of equity-based deals. And I thought, I'm going to do one for myself. That's how good American was actually like the seed of I'm going to start a business. When you say equity-based deals, you were setting celebrities, influencers into deals with brands like a good American and getting them equity in that business. Absolutely. Much bigger brands. I mean, Good American was a startup.

Yeah, that's what I was doing, you know, because the tide had turned, right? It had gone from these endorsements that were big and meaty and lovely, but talent wanted different things. Sure. The kind of, it had all moved on. And I was very successful in putting those together. But of course, then you see the other side. It's not just a commission check for me and my agency.

It was like, wow, I've just created, like, real value for someone. And they're going to be cashing that in for the rest of their lives. And what did we get? We got, like, a one-off payment and off you go. And there was also this thing that you feel, you know, you're so involved in those early stages of, like, creating those things. And then you step away and you're like, wow, kind of watching from a distance. So there was a little bit of, like, the green-eyed monster that came out.

It was like, I'm not part of it anymore. Now they're going to be off. And, you know, I thought I was so, and as you often do, you believe that you're at the center of the universe, you're like, I've got all of that. Wait a minute, I'm not. It was my dear. You can do it without me? So that was a bit of a shocker.

And actually, it's another thing that I feel like I've never spoken about. But when I sold my company, so fast forward in, so I had ITB, that was 10 years in the making. I started good American way I was still at ITB and then decided to sell ITB. And, you know, when that company was acquired, they, there was no, you know, I'd always set it up in my head that there was going to be an earn out and that I would stay there for a number of years. And that didn't happen to me. I was really surprised. I was like, oh, you're going to do this, you're going to do this company, my company without me. So they got it and you were out like the next day? Yeah, and it had been discussed. I knew that that was going to happen. But I couldn't imagine that the company would exist without me and that that would be the choice of everybody in. And does it still exist today? It does. And it's thriving and it's wonderful and I love the people in there. I was shocked and surprised. And I'm sure they're a little shocked and surprised now.

So how do you even start to go into business and do good American? Like, how does this even transpire? Quick break because I need to discuss birth control. I've recently had so many DMs from women all over the world asking for more resources and information and discussion around birth control. So I learned recently that there are more than 21 million women who are not using hormonal birth control, and I'm one of them. But now the FDA recently approved a birth control option that's completely hormone-free. You guys may have seen me talk about this on Instagram already. So it's called fexy. And it's this combination of lactic acid 1.8%, citric acid 1%, potassium biderate, 0.4%.

it's this vaginal birth control gel that comes in a small applicator like a tampon and it works immediately and can be used up to an hour before sex. So basically you apply the gel before you have sex and only use it when you need it. But you have to apply it again before each act of vaginal sex. So when you try it, remember, one dose, one hour, one act. And I have to tell you guys how it works because it's insane really. Like I kind of geeked out when I learned this. And you know me, I had to overshare. We're going to go there. Normally, without Fexi, when a guy comes and semen enters the vagina, it causes the pH of your vagina to increase, which allows sperm to keep swimming and make their way up there to fertilize your egg. Are you listening, Michael and Taylor? So Fexe works by

maintaining the vaginal pH to a level that reduces the mobility of the sperm, reducing the chance of the sperm reaching the egg. How awesome is that? Well, Fexe could be a great option for many women like me who are seeking hormone-free birth control, it isn't right for everyone. So be sure to tell your health care provider if you have a recent history of three or more urinary tract infections per year. And obviously, as with any new birth control, be sure to check for any ingredients in Fexi you or your partner may be allergic to. The most common side effects reported by clinical trial participants are vaginal burning, itching, and yeast infection. Some male partners also reported local discomfort. And remember, Fexi only works when used before sex and it doesn't

protect against STIs, including HIV. To learn more about Fexi, ask your healthcare provider and visit fexy.com for complete product information. That is P-H-E-XX-I.com. And Michael, don't pop a boner. So, I mean, the story is so, I feel like it's so well documented in so many ways. You're always speaking to different audiences. So the genesis of the idea came from the thought that I wanted to do something outside

of my agency that was mine. So it was like I had full ownership of it. But then the thinking was much, much more rooted in this idea of I predominantly worked in fashion and a bit of beauty and lifestyle. But fashion really was where my client base was. And I was very aware of like the idea of how fashion brands or what you wear and the way you feel are like intrinsically linked, right? It's like I just said to you, I've come from Lake Tahoe for the last three days.

So I've got these lovely shoes on because it's going to make me feel better, even though nobody can see us. Like, I'm going to feel good and sit tall during this podcast. I saw the shoes. They're so magical. They're so good. I mean, Maldi can send me anything she wants. I pay full price. But anyway, so I started to think about that a lot. And then being a black woman, you know, I was very aware of the fact that I'd often been asked to like cast and I'm doing air quotes now, you know, like give us a diverse cast for this season's campaign, Emma. And I'd really like, okay, I know what that means. You need, you know, you need a black girl, you need a white girl, you need a Latina. You've got a bunch of boxes to tick. And so I was aware that

diversity was something that was a marketing piece for most fashion brands, right? It wasn't intrinsically in there. It was like, we need to take a box and therefore we're going to do it. And in all of that, I started then doing a lot of research into the plus size market. And I thought, wow, well, if I have this idea that representation really matters, then that shouldn't just be in terms of skin color or somebody's ethnicity, but it ought to be about women and their sizes as well. And then when I started to look into it, like the figures like were just staggering. 68% of women in America are a size 16 plus and yet none of the retailers are. They're just not thought about, not catered for.

And then I thought about all the brands that I'd worked for for so many years and I'd never done a plus size campaign. I thought, how have you been in fashion for 10 years? And you've never hired a plus size girl. This is crazy. And so all of those thoughts and feelings started coming together. And I had the idea of thought, I'm going to do like the world's first fully. inclusive fashion brand. So it's not plus because in my head that there is a stigma, I thought, how do you get the tiny girls to want to wear the brand if it's a plus size brand? So I was like,

I'm just going to do all the sizes. And I'm never going to talk about what that piece of it is. I'm just going to like dress every woman of every different size. And that was the genesis of it. And then, of course, I found out that I was pregnant. And so my idea just like shrunk and shrunk and I was like, okay, what can I get done in like six months, four months, two months. And that's really how it, how it ended up just being two skews of jeans on launch day, because I was like, it's a fashion brand. No, it's a denim brand. And maybe we should just do denim bottoms. Maybe I've only got time to do two fits. And that was it. Was it called good American to start? Yeah, right from the beginning. It was you only to start. No, I went, I approached Chloe with it right out of the gate because the idea,

again, was doing this. I wanted to do an, you know, I'd done all of these equity deals. And I knew the power of talent. I'd been doing that for 10 years. And so for me to work with someone that I knew could immediately accelerate the business was in my mind's eye from day one. And I didn't have a list like I would present to clients. I had one person. I was like, I know who I'm going to work with. It's Chloe Kardashian. I think I know why you chose Chloe, but can you tell us what attracted you to her as a face of the brand? Absolutely. So she and you know, in fairness to Chloe, she is way more than the face of the brand, though I understand why people think. that, but she's my business partner. You know, we text every single morning. My first text in the morning is sales and it's Chloe and I going back and forward. I thought about Chloe at that point, I think she was just my favorite Kardashian. She was everyone's favorite Kardashian. And so I'd done a lot of work with the family. I'd never worked with Chloe. And for me, she definitely epitomized all the things that I thought, wow, she's been way, at that time, she was so famous that everyone knew who she was, right? So that was like the first thing that is just a box tick if you're trying to start a brand.

But, you know, she'd been thinner, she'd been fuller. She kind of seemed just like happy and confident any size that she ever was. And that was what I was trying to put across, this idea that your size shouldn't define how you feel about yourself. But if you can't get the right clothes, then that's an immediate roadblock, right? The two things are completely connected. And so I just thought, I'm going to ask her. She's never done anything like that before. And I kind of remembered back to a meeting that I'd had with Chris, where she said, well, you know, Emma, the girls were in a different stage in their lives now. They're starting businesses. And I thought, oh, well, maybe Chloe wants to start a business. So how does the day-to-day work? So it sounds like you guys are

both very, very involved. What's your day in a life? And obviously, COVID, like, let's pretend COVID. Let's pretend COVID didn't happen. Before COVID. Like, do you wake up, do you have a morning routine? Are you in office? Explain your day to day. Yeah. So I am a really early riser. I get up a like 5, 5.15 every single day. And I usually, yeah, I'm an early bird. Well, do you know what? I don't need that much sleep. I'm in bed. I'm always in bed by 10, 30, 11. I don't necessarily go straight. You know, I'm not like, hit the pillow. I like, wind down. I read a bit. Chat to my husband. I get six hours. I need six hours. Five 15 is not really. I know. It's very L.A., isn't it? Yeah. That's all my friends say. Keep going. What do you do? That's what nice about being in Texas is we can be 7.15 and then it's a 15. I love it. That's just, yeah. I mean, and that's the other thing, right? Because I'm used to being on the other side of the world. So I feel like I wake up in tomorrow anyway. Like I'm like the whole day's gone everywhere else. So I do wake up very early. I try to get a workout in. Doesn't happen every single day. But I do try to get a workout in at least four or five times a week. And I like to do that before the kids get up. My kids get up about seven. So I would have finished my workout. I'm like halfway for a smoothie and the kids are there. And I'm, and I'm, always with them in the morning as much as I can be. So like I'll like, do my hair at the dining room table just so I can be in their vicinity because otherwise I just feel like I'm gone. So my

trick is like if you're in my vision, like we are all together. That's how we do it. I do not take my kids to school every day because I just don't have the time. I can't squeeze it in. But I try to do each child once a week. So when they're in the same school as of this September, I'll be a two week a day mom. I mean, it's amazing. I'm crushing it. So I take one of the kids to school or I could just go straight into the office. So for me, COVID was really interesting. I only spent about six weeks out of the office. I'm in a product-based business. If you're not in with the product, like, you're basically not in business. You're not doing anything. And so I was very lucky that me and the MVP of Good American, Melissa Anderson, my president of product or chief products officer,

as she should, she likes to be called. She and I just went back in the office and we masked up and gloved up, we were basically in hazmat suits the whole time, which we thought was hilarious, but we were in the office working. And that's what I do every day. How important is it to build a good team around you? I am launching product after 12 years of being in the podcast and influencer space. And I think that people don't talk enough about the team around them. How have you built that to really make things work like a well-oiled machine? It's everything. No one can do anything. I think I'm like pretty good operationally as a CEO of Good American. And I think I'm pretty good at marketing, but there's loads of stuff that I'm not good at. And you have to surround yourself with experts.

So I'm also pretty good at poaching people when I need to, right? So I really stalk people. I probably see a like prospective staff member once a week, whether they're looking, whether they're ready to move, whether I'm in the market for that higher because I'm always looking. Talent is the most important thing to any business. And so talking of somebody like Melissa Anderson, you know, she is everything that I'm not. She's in the technical detail of the fit and the fabrication has taught me absolutely everything that I know about denim. And if you don't have like a master merchant when you're trying to start a product company, then you're just not very smart. And so on day one, the two people that I launched the company with was Melissa Anderson and then Mehmet, who now is over at Skims, that Momet came in as my head.

head of e-com, director of e-com. And so essentially, you know, built the site, built the back end, figured out all the logistics. I don't know what warehouses are. I have no idea about customer experience as it relates to actually having people that answer phones and are available to deal with like the hundreds and thousands of tickets that you get from customers on a daily basis. But it sounds like you, I mean, you do something that's extremely smart where you kind of look at the overall thing as a machine and you place the right people and the right assets into the machine to make it work. Yeah. And as a CEO, that's your job. right? Like you are the manager and you've got to play the best team. And there are fantastic parts of that because I love meeting talent and I love being around with talented people. And then sometimes, you know, when you're in a very fast-growing business, the people that kind of you start things with are not the people that are going to get you to the next stage of the business. So you've also got to know when to play your team and then when to change your team. That's part of what you do. That reminds me of the book that you made me read scaling up.

I read that book. He said, you need to read this. Well, you know, I think that's, I think both for the individuals that are working in an entity and the people that are running them, it's like, I always look, there's like, there's, like, seasons. And you have the people that are going to be like the lifers that are going to stay and they make sense for every aspect. And then there's other people that are like, they're better for a team of five to ten, but not so well suited for a team of 30 to 50 and so on. And that's okay.

I also think that's true. You've also got to take that to heart with yourself, right? I know when you need to be switched out. And again, it's about knowing what you don't know. So there are lots of parts of Good American that I perhaps had my hands on in the beginning. I've just had to let go because it's completely outgrown my capabilities. And so I'm very, very aware of that. You know, I don't want to hold, I believe in Good American as a concept,

whether there is me there and Chloe there or if it's in 30 years time. I want the brand to win. And I know it has that it has the ability to be like a generational, shift in the way people see fashion and see that category and look at women and that we're doing so much more than just making jeans. I get people come up to me all the time that say, I've just never ever seen someone looks like me in a campaign like that. And I'm like, well, wow. And when you really break that down, what you're saying is that representation doesn't just matter to people. It really matters. It can change the way people feel about themselves, the way they go on and do

things in the rest of their day and indeed in the rest of their life. And so I think that that part of what we're doing is really, really important work. I would love to know the behind the scenes. How involved are you and Chloe in the creative? Like if there's a gene that's coming out, have you guys picked every single detail from the zipper to the fit to the flare? Every single detail. I mean, we're girls about it, right? So we're definitely not in the pattern room and like cutting patterns. That is not what we do. But from a stylistic point of view, I'm the operational day-to-day CEO. So I oversee every part of the company. What Chloe does is much more rooted in product and in marketing, because that's where she sits, right? Chloe definitely doesn't work on

logistics and oversee the design room. That's just not what she does. But she is in product. So take the latest launch, actually, which was one of our most successful denim launches, good 90s. That was Chloe. She was like, I feel like we need some, like a really baggy fit, and I'm thinking this and I'm thinking that. And so I will bring the design. design team to her and around her to figure out exactly what she wants, to conceptualize that. But then from a fit, from a fabrication standpoint, actually like the way that it looks and it sits and then the marketing and who's in that campaign and how we shoot it and what. That whole thing is Chloe and I, the whole thing. How does skims fit into all this? Did you launch with skims when

they launched? Yes, absolutely. Okay. So how did you, did that cause any turmoil between Kim and Chloe or was it like the more the merrier? How did that work? Absolutely not. I'm sure they had a good conversation about it before I was asked to be involved. So actually, Skims is Kim Kardashian's brand with my husband and myself. We're founding partners in the business together. My role there is a little bit different. In that, I am more like a chief product officer. So I oversee design, merchandising, planning, product development, those areas of the business. I have to tell you, I gained 55 pounds when I was pregnant. And I was so, like, puffy after being pregnant. And that was the only thing that made me feel confident was skin. I'm so glad you say that. The way that you guys have done the fit and how it's

all one color. And it's like, it's just so flattering, is so empowering. And I love the way you guys do the website and everything is so on the pulse and youthful. Same with Good American, by the way. I'm just not wearing jeans quite yet. I feel like I need like a couple more months. I have jeans for you. I have an always fit thing that just works. of any size you are. I need like, tightened everything in. I've got it. I've got you.

I should have come delivering jeans. You know, we take the same approach. I think when you're a product person, you're a product person. What I'm really, really good at is that product piece. I understand intrinsically like what customers want and then I know how to get there. I know the building blocks of how to get that done. And so I think I've just applied exactly the same thing to both of those brands. I'm really good at getting an idea from zero.

So something. That's what I do really well. How's working with your husband? Be honest. It's, you know, it's so interesting. I wasn't really. They say interesting. It's challenging, but rewarding. No, do you know what? That's such, yeah, that's, that's not what it is. So Yens and I had our work relationship figured out before we were together as a couple. That's nice. I was his staff member, right? That's like basically what it was. And so that's been very, very helpful. It also helps that my husband is Swedish, and like Swedish society is very equal, equal, right? It's hugely feminist society. Men, you know, are allowed to take as much maternity leave as women. They really come to the table. They're very equal partnerships, equal society, very, very progressive society. But at the end of it,

it's like we do different things. What does he do? And we don't cross over. Well, Yen's is, I mean, and again, different things in different businesses. So if we look at Skims, for example, Yenz is the, again, the operational CEO. of that business. He runs that business and I am a cog in the wheel of that business. In good American, I run that business and he is on the board of that business. So we don't cross over Judith. There's no friction because you're not both trying to do the same thing. No. And we also know our place in each of the businesses. So I don't run into skims and try to make decisions because the likelihood is Kim and Yens have had a discussion and that's the way they're going.

And so like anyone at that kind of level, if you're like in the C suite of a company, you take your leadership from the CEO and you march towards that vision. But a good American, it's my vision. And he's a board member and like a board member, he will give his advice and steer me in the right direction. And so we actually, weirdly enough, have a very professionalized relationship. We don't cross over. Like, that's just not what we do. I often seek his advice in things that are like outside of the areas that we've set for each other. But we tend not to cross over. Like we wouldn't be sitting here together doing. It's probably smart. Yeah. That's why we're smart.

Like you two, sorry. You see, there's a little distance here. There's got a, you need the distance. Arm length just in case. But you know what it's like, right? We talk about work all the time. People always say to me, said, you just like switch off.

I'm like, no, we don't switch off. Like, we're in bed at 11 talking about like whatever's dropping tomorrow. Like, that's the reality of our relationship. But that's when you do something that, and I hate this, like you when you do something you love. But I genuinely have a job that I love. I have no ambition to like get to a point where I stop working. I love what I do.

And so for us, it's more like it's our hobby, it's our passions, it's what we do to make money, and it's all of those things wrapped up. And so you end up, I think what I've got is like a built-in mentor slash husband at home with very easy access. Well, it sounds like you guys are very aligned in where both your lives are going and where your family's life is going. I think a lot of couples they start doing business together and like maybe one person wants to go this way, another person wants to go this way, or maybe one person's idea of success is like this high and another person's success is like this. And if you're not matched, it's this whole mismatch of all sorts of issues.

100%. We're very, we're very matched. I can imagine, although I do think, like, when I think about Yenzi, he has very different goals and ideals than I do, right? I don't think he's somebody that necessarily, like, cares about money. Like, that's not what gets him out of bed and what drives him every day. And I just think, I really like to make money. Sounds like me and Michael, but you're Michael. No, I think probably if someone establishes both you are in that career. At some point, the money doesn't become the driving factor. Because once you hit your base level, your family's taking care of your... Things don't, yeah, they don't get much,

much better. How much further can I push the envelope in terms of accomplishments? Totally. Totally. I get that. I would say as someone who's in the digital space, that the Kardashians are some of the most influential people in the world. And why I really respect them is I feel like they've opened space for other women and other influencers to create things. Like, I feel like they're, you know, really big trailblazers. Would you agree with that? And then furthermore, do you think that social media has played a really big role in building these businesses marketing-wise? It's a great question. I mean, I definitely, I was and am a fan of the family, right? I always watched the show before I was in business with them and I've worked with them for a really long time. And so I work with Kim and Chloe

and of course Chris, who is incredible. I'm wowed by what this. they've done because I think about it in the sense of like popular culture, right? I feel like they have shifted and put their kind of mark on popular culture forever. And people will argue, you know, for right reasons, for wrong reasons. My view is that I work with a bunch of incredible business women that work really, really hard. And I've been around and working with talent for so many years that I know the difference between the people that come and kind of like half do the work and like meet their contracted obligations to the people that really, really work it. And also the people that go beyond that to really build it. And I'm working with a group of people that are

builders. Kim, Chris, Chloe, they are builders. They're going to build an empire. And for me, it's, it's a privilege to work with women like that. If you're going to work, if you're going to talk about female empowerment and you're going to work, you know, that into the kind of idea of the businesses that I'm creating, then why wouldn't you want to work with some of the best women out there? So I'm very, I'm very, very pro what they stand for. And I think they've been enormously impactful for not just the businesses that I work with them in, but also just for popular culture at large. Yeah. I think for the people that are critics that would make arguments against the case you just made, it's like, there's people that get to the top and they stay there

for a year or two, but you can't be on the top and still growing for 20 plus years if you're not working hard. No, you can't. Not incredibly smart, right? No, you can't. There's no way you just stay there. Like, hey, you're not really doing much and just happened, but it's doing 20 years and we're still growing and still getting bigger. There's no one that has.

And I think like anyone, right, there's transitions in your life. And no doubt they've had those transitions too. They've just done it in front of the camera. I'd hate to think if you were following me at the age of 22 what you might have seen or like, see. I would have been naked on the bar, shots. It's so. crazy, right? I mean, but that's it. And I feel like the phase of the life that I can see right now, right? Because I'm a business partner is one where you're dealing with incredibly focused people that give 100%. Like, and that's, that's, I can only speak to my experience. How is Chris Jenner so fucking gnarly? Like, she is so g. She's such a G. I love her. She's like with everything. I think it's so funny because when all said and done, like I feel like Christiana will go down as like the great.

manager that ever was in Hollywood. You know? I've said on the show, they're going to make books and all sorts of studies on her. She's not just a business woman and, you know, an incredible, because she really is the most incredible mother. But she's somebody who I, when I moved here, we had a joke in my house. We'd like, call Chris. Like, you know, you've got a rat in the garden or like, you need a doctor recommendation.

We'd be like, call Chris. Like, she has an answer for anything. And she's like the most generous person in the world. So she would take her time to make introductions and, like, get my kids in the school, make a phone call, you know. And I think there's something to be said of people that, like, go out of their way for other people. And my experience of Chris is one that we should be asking her this question. How does she do it? I have no idea. Emma, this is a real question. No one's ever asked you this in an interview. Go on. Have you received a leopard barefoot dreams blanket

from Chris Jenner? And if you haven't, she's going to have to send you one over because I heard that's the gift. I have got a lot of gifts from Christ Jenna, but there is no leopard blankets. She needs a levered blanket. Maybe she knows that that would not work in my house. Like, I'm very neutral, neutral. There's a white leopard one. Well, listen, I'm slightly offended and I'll send a text and ask. When she turns into this one. She'll be getting it out, no doubt. I mean, she's so generous. I would never ask for anything. She's so, so incredibly good with the Kardashian blanket. It's, it's, we have 40 in her house. No way. It's so warm and comfortable. Wow, I can't believe I'm missing out. You're missing out. You need a blanket. I would love to know you have beautiful

skin. Your eyebrows are full. What are your beauty secrets? I'm obsessed with beauty. Like I really, like beauty products. I absolutely love them and have always like since I was so, so young. I mean, so weird. I have not got my things sorted out since I lived here. Like, I was so good in London, like with my facelist and like who would do me. And I just don't have that here. So I kind of hop around until I find like the right people. Pelicure. Lauren's going to give you a bunch of stuff now. It's pelicure.

The Kardashians are always there. Really? Pelicure does the Korean Vichy shower with the cupping facial that drains your face and just makes you so tight. I've never ever had that. You would love it. I need to do it.

This is the other thing like with the whole like regime. Again, I don't have that much time. Like I always feel like when I book a facial here, they're like, so it's like a two and a half hour. I'm like two and a half hours. Take your phone in the facials. Oh, you can. The whole time I return emails for an hour and a half.

It's the most relaxing. Tip from the top. I could do that. I'm telling you. Yeah, that's what I do. My hands have no blood in that matter, but who the fuck cares? I got an hour of emails done in a facial and I'm tight. I pass out.

If I get one moment of relaxation, I'm out like a switch. Do you have any beauty favorites, skin favorites, eyebrows favorites, beautiful eyebrows? Do you know, I use, it's Anastasy Beverly Hills. It's the most boring answer. I use, I'm so bad, I use the stuff people send me. Thank you to Barbara Sturm. I literally, like, I don't shop for products. I use the stuff that gets sent and I hop around.

I'm a bit of a brand whore. But like nothing specifically. Like, I'm obsessed with lip balms because I have really like big lips. Okay, tell us the favorite lip balm. My favorite lip balm is the Dior one, the Dior lip glow or whatever it's called. No, but I'm going to look into it. It's the best. I can adjust to the natural shade of your lips.

Okay. It's very special. It's your lip-low. So that's, yeah, I'm, I have to, like, if I don't, if I don't eat and I don't have lip balm, like, you're not going to be able to have a good meeting or session with me. Like, people often come to meetings with me, like, with a snack or with, like, a bunch of lip-bams. I used to work with this guy who, like, literally bought, like, 100 lip-bams and would have them all over the office so that I wouldn't be distracted.

Does Chris Jenner bring you a salad and a mango green teeny? She doesn't bring that stuff. But an assistant, absolutely. We'll call ahead of the meeting and make sure whatever you want for lunch is there. Have you had a Kardashian salad? I've definitely had my fair share of Kardashian salads. I'm not going to lie. Because if you get that in the blanket, that's more than the show.

Even me and my sisters used to talk about that. We're like, why are they always eating out of like plastic? Like, because you'd always see that on the show. Now I live in LA. I'm like, oh, that's why I understand. The health nut, I feel like that's the Postmates move tonight. It's so good. They have the best sandwiches.

If you could leave our audience with a podcast, a book, a resource that's brought you a lot of value. I know you mentioned earlier emotional intelligence, but if there's another one, what would that be? Oh, I'm such a huge reader. And I'm trying to think about what would be. There's all the really obvious ones, right? I love anything by Bernay Brown because I feel like what Bernay does is really works like on the deep stuff that is quite difficult. You know, when you're talking about somebody who's like, doctorate is to work around shame. That's some really deep, heavy stuff. But plays out in your everyday life. There's a really old book, actually. It was written by, and I'm so bad at remembering everything. I've got the cover in my head. It's the 10 things

they don't teach you at Harvard Business School. And I think it's Mark McCormack that wrote it, the original founder of IMG. No one's ever recommended that. It's a thin book. It's maybe like 150 pages, but it's so good. And it's one of those ones that's like almost falling apart in my house because it's been so well read. And I've like circled. things. It's a very, very, very good book. I'm downloading it right now. Yeah, you'll love it. It's a really, really excellent one. What is next for Good American? Pimp yourself out. What can we expect? I have to shout out your body suits. I think they're incredible and everything you're doing at Skims. All of it just makes so much sense and you're so on the pulse. What are you guys doing?

What's next? You know, there's so much. We're constantly developing product at Good American. That's what we do. So we're always figuring out like what is the problem that we're trying to solve. that's really the genesis of where all our product developments starts. Or it can just be like, how can we make something like way kudos? Swim was not something that was in our product pipeline, but Chloe really wanted to do swim. And she had all of these ideas and all of this stuff that she thought could be like very good American in terms of like adjustables and fabric that grows with you. And so we were like, okay, we'll do swim. And so that's something that I love because it's like, it's just like denim. It's a really tricky category to get right. And so I feel like in good

American, we love to make things difficult. We love to go into the product categories that women find really difficult and really troublesome and try to figure those out. So we'll probably do more of the same. You're definitely someone that doesn't strike me as someone that goes the easy way. No, never the easy way. We're like, what do people hate trying on? Swinware? Let's do that. I have to acknowledge your execution. It's very impressive. And I feel like it's 0.000,0001% of the world. I love that you say that. No, and honestly, like, I think that that's what we're one of the most important things about the brand. At Good American, there is a mission, there is purpose, and there's a set of principles. And when you have that in your business, there's always

something to fall back on, right? So you can get, like, products can be right and wrong. And that's just part of life. We make things that are really great and we make things that are not so great. But did you stick to your principles? Did you sacrifice something that you believe was really key to the business? And I think that those are the reasons we're really successful because customers understand why they buy good American. They really know what they're going to get. They know that they can be really proud of what the brand is doing and how the brand operates. And they also know that what we're doing isn't marketing. Our company looks exactly the same on the inside as it does on the outside. And actually what we do is never, ever take shortcuts. We

never go, do you know what? Let's just do that in half the sizes because it would be easier and we'd make much more money. That's just never been what the brand's about. It's like we set out to do something that was exactly to give women a really great idea of themselves in how they can feel through their clothing. We really actually believe that being good, doing good, feeling good is all linked. And actually, if you can be a brand that sticks to those principles, then actually people are going to love it. And I think that's what's happened with Good American. People absolutely love the brand because they know that we're honest and we're doing what we say. You're amazing. What's Instagram handle so everyone can follow you. Oh, it's Emmergreed. And at Good American, right? No, I don't think it. It's just

Emma greed. Emma G-R-E-D-E-E-A-E. But you also have Instagram at Good American too. Oh my God. Yeah, see, look, here's that, so you can tell who's the social media person. You know I didn't have social media when we started Good American. Ah. I'd maybe done one post and Chloe was like, you should post. I was like, but I have you. Who's looking at me? So yes, of course, Good American. And skins. Both good follows. Absolutely good follows. Come back anytime. I feel like I could have asked you a hundred more questions.

I love it. Very good to speak to you both. Thank you. Thank you, Emma. Take care. To win some skinny confidential, cheeky merch like pop sockets, stickers, bookmarks, tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic and someone from the team will drop into your inbox and send you some swag.

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