The Bossticks - Fyre Festival's Billy McFarland On Prison Life, Redemption, & How To Overcome Life's Greatest Setbacks

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

#623: Today, we're sitting down with the infamous Billy McFarland. Billy McFarland is best known for organizing Fyre Festival, the VIP party that became infamous when hundreds of attendees were left stranded in the Bahamas with half-built huts to sleep in and cold cheese sandwiches to eat. McFarland was sentenced to six years in prison for wire fraud charges in relation to Fyre Festival. Now, McFarland is free and has mentioned that a possible follow-up to Fyre Festival is 'finally happening.' Today, Billy joins us for a conversation about Fyre Fest, how it got started, what went wrong, and everything there is to know about his experience in jail. He also dives into what he's learned since Fyre Fest and how he's approaching Fyre Fest #2. To connect with Billy McFarland click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Branch Basics The Branch Basics Premium Starter Kit will provide you with everything you need to replace all of your toxic cleaning products in your home. It's really a no-brainer. Go to branchbasics.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off their starter kit and free shipping. This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby Use code code SKINNYBOGO23 at checkout for Buy One Get One Free off all Weighted Products at dreamlandbabyco.com This episode is brought to you by Armra ARMRA Colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, activates hair growth and skin radiance, and powers fitness performance and recovery. Visit www.tryarmra.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by WeightWatchers WeightWatchers is the #1 doctor recommended weight-management program and the trusted authority in evidence based weight-health. Visit ww.com/tsc to see if you qualify, and if you do, used code TSC25 to get one free month plus $25 off your second month. This episode is brought to you by OneSkin Visit oneskin.co and use code SKINNY15 at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

The pessimistic view here, I think that small failures are really good for you. I think that huge failures are actually devastating. And I think the reality is most people can't come back from huge failures. And like I saw it with a lot of capable guys in jail who just can't recover from it. And it's really, really sad. I think all the little failures I had leading up to that were very, very beneficial. And this one probably wasn't. But at the end of the day, I think there's so many times.

And after we failed and we want to get back started again, we predict problems, right? Oh, well, if we start doing well, in six months, this is going to happen. Well, nine months is it going to happen. In 12 months, it's going to happen. In reality, almost all of those problems end up sorting themselves if you just take action. So I think like don't think about what problems you might have in the future. Just like just start going now and this problem is most likely disappear. Welcome back, everybody.

Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. Today we have a fire episode, no pun intended, but I had to say it with Billy McFarlane. Billy McFarlane, as you guys may remember, is best known for organizing fire festival, the VIP party that became infamous when hundreds of attendees were left stranded in the Bahamas with half-built huts to sleep in and cold cheese sandwiches. I'm sure you guys all saw that documentary. It was a huge topic years ago that had a ton of attention, which eventually led Billy to prison. He was actually sentenced to six years for wire fraud, which we get into on this episode.

And I got to say, sometimes we have episodes on this show that are absolutely shocking. I don't know exactly how we get into these conversations. This show has taken so many turns over the years, but this was definitely one of the more fascinating episodes. I think a lot of people have their already preconceived notions about Billy or what they think he did or did not do. And I think this is one of the first interviews where he's really opened up and shared from his perspective. We definitely came away from this episode with a completely different perspective of what we thought. Some of the topics include how he grew up and made companies starting at the age of 10 years old, how the seed of FireFest began, how FireFest was planned and what went wrong, what it's like to go to jail for that long, what prison taught him and how he's moving forward, and how jail affected his entire life and those in it. This is a fascinating topic that I know many are interested in, and now we get to hear it right from the whole.

horse's mouth or from Billy's mouth and learn all about Firefest and what's next. Maybe even a Fire Fest too. With that, Billy McFarland, welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. All right, Billy, what the hell is going on here? What's happening now? Let's go back with you a little bit. We're super excited to interview first of all. Yeah, great to be here. Thank you for doing this. Thanks, Michael. Thanks, thanks, learn. I think most people know you from Fire Festival, but for those that need a little bit more context, or you provide a little more context, give us a little bit of background, you before Fire Festival. Like even when you were a little, like, were you an entrepreneur when you were a little?

Do you know Fire Festival was literally only four months? It was a trailer video of an idea in December with a promise for a date in April and then like four months of craziness. And all the stories are just from those like pieces of four months. But there was so much that led up to that moment that allowed all the good things and allowed all the really, really bad things, which were terrible to happen. So, yeah, so much more than just a four-month period and crazy how, like, your entire life story gets condensed into just four months. I want to get more than, I want to go, like, way back with you. Like, when you were a little boy, were you entrepreneurial? I think the biggest curse and biggest gift was I got a computer in fifth grade. And this is, like,

in the early, early days of, like, cable internet. So just transitioning from super slow dial-up to actually be able to do things online. And so I was, like, what, 10? years old and got this computer and quickly learned this was the place where I had no rules and had no boundaries. No parents, no teachers, no siblings, no relatives could tell them what to do and I can kind of go on the internet and it was lawless at the time and that was kind of my coming of age online. So what are you doing online when you're 10 years old? Like what is, are you watching porn?

Are you crafting a, like are you on, what's that game that you fucking guys all play Minecraft, Warcraft, whatever it's going? No, no. See, young people these days will never understand. the pain of dialing up through like a 56K motor. I understand that. I understand that, but are you just online browsing the internet? Are you like building something online?

I just build basic websites to start. Got it. And then I started building websites and basically pretending like I was an adult to all these business guys and I was like prating around with a really terrible fake deep voice. Like my voice now isn't even deep but as they're like as a 10 year old trying to have a deep voice. It's hilarious. Talk all these 40-year-old guys trying to start businesses from my basement in my parents' house. What kind of businesses were these?

So, and I guess what I'm trying to get at is, were you always a hustle? Were you always working for yourself, you know, always looking for new ideas to build businesses again? I think I didn't really know what a business was, but it felt like I could, if I had my own resources, I could create freedom that didn't have in my real life. So I wanted to put my website online and realize I had to pay somebody, like pay a server company to put the website online. Like, all right, I'll start a server company. So then I was 13, I started a server company and hired three full-time employees in India who each worked eight-hour shifts seven days a week. There it is, Billy. That's what I was asking. That's what I want to know. I knew there was something. I had to pull it out of you. I knew it. You created a fucking server company. That is wild. Yeah, I got in trouble when I got like a wedding invitation. The head guy's name was Rex. So I got his wedding invitation in India in the mail like two years later. My mom's like, what the hell of some grown man from India doing inviting to his wedding?

So house came from like down. I was way, I knew there was like there's, I feel like there's breadcrumbs that lead up to this moment. What were these other breadcrumbs that, that you remember looking back on your childhood like that? I started a website in the Myspace era and I called it your hot site. And it was meant to be a private Myspace for middle school kids. And it was like really, really awesome for four days until the principal called me in. And it was like, someone was going to die in here. You have to shut it down immediately.

So that was like my first like. introduction to like, wow, I can build something online that everybody in my life that I know at the time, like all my middle school friends, but I'll use. And that was just like the coolest feeling in the world. So I think like that kind of gave me the adrenaline that like, wow, I can actually like type something at home that impacts people's lives. Like that's really, really wild. You're hot. You should bring that back. Your hot site. Yeah. It's just called your hot site. Yeah. So I was 13. So 20, 2003, 2004. Yeah. And this is like a time. I mean, you know, it's interesting. I think a lot of people that kind of came up during this time, like the internet, to your point, was like a little bit law.

I mean, it still is, but it was like, there was no real guidelines, rules, regulation. People were just trying to like figure it out. You didn't really, you know, you're surfing around. You don't really know what you're doing. I think kids were sumbling around. At what point do you realize that using this tool, you can actually start making a substantial income? So in high school, I had a customer who I had known since I was like 11 or 12 years old who was paying me for like web posting for three or four years now. And he said he was like 35 living in London. And it finally came out like my junior year of high school. He was the exact same age as me, like same year as school. But like in London, like totally pretending as well. And we're like, all right, we got to build something together. So fast forward to my freshman year of college. I call him up. We create our first startup together. He ends up dropping into school and comes to America for the first time, moves in when we were 18. So it's like that connection from like our 12 or 13 year olds like lying in our bedrooms. But how old we were became like a tangible business in the U.S. So that was pretty wild.

Is this something that you're just naturally good at? Like, were you actually, like, doing the coding and stuff? I was initially, but this guy is way better than me. He works to Google now. He's like an absolute beast. And yeah, he was like way better than me at coding. So like, hey, come, like, take over and take me to the side and, like, build this thing for us. So you've essentially been starting businesses since you were 10 years old.

For sure. I think the internet was cool because you can just meet people that I wasn't able to meet. If I'm 13 years old and like a New Jersey suburb, I wasn't meeting some crazy programmer from London, right? But like the internet let me do that. So like a really fun way to just find different things that it couldn't access in my life. So what do you think? Okay. So obviously we're going to talk about fire and then what you're working on now.

But you said this all happens in a four month period. What was the motivation? Because it sounds like you had the music app and then you were doing the festival as kind of like, was it a promo thing or was it you wanted to get in the live event space? Like how did I guess what I'm trying to get at is how does this four month period that derailed your life in a lot of ways. One, take off so quickly. And then two, how does this all kind of unravel? So someone I'm working with now is doing due diligence on me. And they called a woman who I used to know in the four months leading up the fire festival who was basically talent that was like there

for some of the promo shoots. And they're like, oh, how is Billy as a guy? And she's like, yeah, things were great. Except I knew it wasn't going to work when he told me he'd only been to one music festival in his entire life before fire. So it's like, I was not a music festival guy by any stretch of imagination, which I think is kind of wacky. I was a tech guy and I built an app that was trying to be like the Uber for talent where anybody can book artists. And I was using like my love for the Bahamas and the ocean and travel to as a sales tool to bring all these talent and be like, hey, look, here's why you should sign for my company and not some other agency. And it was on one of these trips. I had a high school friend who goes, you just do a music festival here.

So it wasn't my idea. Wasn't any of my employees ideas. It was like a random high school buddy who's like, yeah, this place is incredible for a music festival. Okay. You guys. You go in with just blind ambition, no prior experience, you start, I mean, we have to talk about you, you start working with jaw rule and you get a lot of celebrities. Like, how do you even begin to start approaching these people and get them to sign on with, you know, I guess lack of experience? Yeah, I think the biggest misconception in like this, what bothers me the most, that people think I woke up one day, started lying. And I did lie and it was terrible. And like all of a sudden attract all this money and islands and talent, whatever you want to call it. Like, it took so many years

of having small failures and small successes to build this trust up, which I violated. And arguably, I think that's even worse. But it was moving to New York as like an 18, 19 year old entrepreneur when all of my peers were in college, starting businesses and just like finding myself in these crazy rooms and crazy scenarios that allowed these four months of fire, which, you know, have been told many times now to happen. How did you like approach draw rule and have him like, like, are you like texting his agent? Like, how does that even happen? So I had a. company called Magnesis that was building good experiences and benefits on top of your credit card. So our pitch was like the Amics black card for young millennials in New York City.

And for that card, we were doing private concerts for all of our customers. So I had booked maybe two dozen like smaller rappers to perform with these private concerts. And during this, I realized how broken this booking process was. Like you guys know this world where you speak to somebody who claims to be your manager, but it's really like the cousin of the guy's brother who knows your PR person. And it's like, it was all crazy, like, opaque world that makes no sense. And I'm sitting here after booking two dozen people. I'm like, dude, I can just build an app that removes all of these fakers throughout the process and allow people like me to contact these artists directly. So that was

the impetus of it. And I had most of my talent relations at the time through these magnesium events, which had gone well on a much, much smaller scale, obviously. What's interesting to me is you sound like a behind the scenes type of guy. Like, you sound like you like being behind the app and building the app, not necessarily in front of it. Is that true or no? Yeah, I think the issue and which there's plenty of bad decisions I made during fire, but kind of got lost in the excitement of the islands and the airplanes and like trying to do a music festival on one of the most beautiful places in Earth. I certainly was a, you know, as a 24-year-old, I was chasing after the shining objects and, you know, led me astray.

At what point when you're planning all of this, do you start to think, hey, maybe this is going to go astray? Or was there never that moment? There was never like that moment where like it's not going to work, but it was a total roller coaster of really bad and really good. And I just remember the moment where we launched, we had like 18 of the bigger talent on the island. We had them all posts as orange tile at the same time, like physically with us. And then hundreds around the world posted it right after them. And nothing happened for the first four or five hours. And like I'd put every dollar I had into this like launch moment. And this was for people to go and sign up and buy tickets. It's like, fuck, no one wants to go to this thing.

And I went to bed all depressed thinking, like, I'm now broke and having a festival and I'm stuck on this island. Like, how am I going to pay everybody $2 million dollars like next week? And then I met like, my guy comes to my door, wakes me up at 7 a.m. Pelly, we were screwed. I'm like, shit, we sold no tickets. Like, dude, we sold millions of dollars tickets. Like, how are we ever going to build this thing? So it went from like, we're totally screwed me.

You have nothing to, oh, shit, we've sold so much. How can we actually make this happen? And I think, like, that was pretty indicative of the emotions the entire time where it's always the extremes. but there's never like a time where you could set back and like, oh, shit, like, this probably isn't actually going to work. It was more like the extreme emotional thinking. So when you sell all these tickets in the morning, how do you even start planning? Like, what do you do? I mean, that's a lot of pressure. Yeah. So we were on a small island like in the middle of middle, like middle of nowhere in the ocean. So I like try it three or four. Where exactly is the island?

At this point, we're on Norman's Key, which is in the Bahamas. The population there might be like, at the time, like eight people, like, who actually live there full time. So we fly to the main, like, main capital island, Nassau. I like go into the private airport hangar. I'm like, all right, everybody has to wait like six hours. I just start making phone calls and have everybody come in. I'm like, where can we do this thing? Where can we go and just like start renting islands and striking deals from the airport in Nassau? And like, we have four months to put a festival together. And like, that just started a chain of events, which are totally wild. How much is it to rent an island? Oh, crazy. It was really bad.

probably spent a couple million dollars total on like rentals for four months, if not more. So it's like it's millions of dollars to rent an island. Yeah. So then you get so you get the money, then you get committed because you spent the money. And now you're saying they're like, okay, I got to get all these people here. At this point it was game on. We'd sold these tickets. We had every brand blowing up our phone. We had all the talent who had told us we were crazy six months ago. Now like we just wanted to come to the Bahamas for the fire app saying, oh, like, forget the app. Want to be part of the festival. festival, like, you know, we were in my own little world on top of the world at that point.

So it no longer became but the dollars or cents. It's like, how can we make this three days that the entire world will talk about for the rest of their lives? And it became this one track mindset. It sounds like your intentions were like to have a really incredible festival. But totally naive. Like just couldn't zoom out and be like, wait a second, you can't build a city here in four months. It doesn't matter if I had a billion dollars, which you did not have. Like, it doesn't matter if I was the best builder in the world, I've never built anything.

It's like, you just can't possibly do this and just didn't know how to do this. to understand that. When talent and people start showing up and it's not built the way, like, do you have a moment where you start to say, oh, shit, this is going to be a disaster? That really never happened. I think a lot of people in Heinz were like, oh, I knew on this trip. I think that's all bullshit. We had enough little things going for. It's like enough villas that actually existed there that we were renting out, like enough physical assets that were actually ours that were so good. And we were amazing at the best, like the 100 person festivals that we did every couple weeks leading up to it. Like every single one of those is

perfect. We just didn't have the expertise or I didn't have the expertise to do it with 3,000 people at the time. And when you're planning this, when people start arriving, are you freaking out as they arrive? Or were you still not, were you fine? Yeah, like for the first time, I thought I was screwed in my entire life was the night before the festival was supposed to start. And the storm came through out of nowhere. And like, I had probably like 10 or 12 core like actual festival people who were building the festival site who were all like super energetic, experienced. like nothing's going to stop us type of people. And I come into our main war room and all their heads are like down in the kitchen sinks and the tables are passed out in the couches. I'm like,

fuck, I just lost everybody. And that was when I knew that we were screwed, but it literally was not until the night before. And this is at midnight. And there was no way to stop people from coming at this point. So we chartered 2737. Like this is great. We chartered two seven 37 planes, set up a fire terminal Miami International Airport and had these planes scheduled to go back and forth all day long for four days, two weekends in a row. So they started to arrive at sunrise. So at 7.30 that morning, you know, the first 737, which was brand new with the fire logo on it. We had like girls in bikinis, like stenciled on the plane. Like it was absurd, right? So at like 730 in the morning, the first plane arrives and like, all right, we're still going to pull us off. But I made the final

decision there that crushed it. Like, okay, our festival site is not ready yet. So let's send them to a beach on the other side of the island, bring all the booze, the boats, the jet skis, like, give them a great time. And like, give us. all day to build a festival site. And by the time they came back, it was pitch black, they were wasted, we weren't ready, and just erupted. What happens when the chaos erupts? It's been a while since I've seen the documentary. But I remember it was just like absolute pandemonium and people posting. What was that like being there and experiencing all of that? So I think I should have realized when the top 10 or 12 management level people who were all incredible, when they gave up,

like physically and mentally gave up, I should have realized like I was screwed then. On your team. Yeah, they didn't verbalize it, but it was pretty clear about their body language. Like, they were like, they realized that their whole dream of making this happen was dead in the night before. And at that point, it's when I should have called it quits because I just felt like, where did everybody go? I have 700 people working here at this moment, like a lot of contractors and whatever underneath these 10 or 12. Like, I can't find anybody. And I could find, like, two people who work there. Where do they go?

I don't know. And it just like, it speaks to my bad management ability at the time. And like, clearly the 10 or 12 leaders were out of it. But I just felt like I was alone on this, like, whatever. milk crate or milk carton trying to direct traffic and everybody was gone. Where the fuck is everybody? Are you staying up all night like the night before? Like are you awake all night?

Yeah, for sure. It was a mess. And how many days are you awake for? Because I mean, how do you go to bed? Yeah, I think it was like two or three days where it was just pure, pure mayhem. Oh my God. You remember the sandwiches, Lauren? What happened with the sandwiches?

Remember those like the people? Why would the sandwiches like such a, such a thing? For someone who's listening that has no context, why? Yeah, the food actually. wasn't bad. Like the food was totally, it wasn't five stars advertised, but the food was like definitely pretty good. And the story is that two kids were high and went up to Andy King and said, hey man, all I want is a cheese sandwich. So he made that like those two guys a cheese sandwich. And my number one response here is if we served, I think there was like a thousand cheese

sandwiches, there'd be more than one picture, right? Like everybody would take in a picture. They were saying that cheese sandwich basically just got a lot of a lot of press. Yeah, it's like literally two guys asked for it and he made it for them. When you're actually in it and how you've seen it portrayed on social media, were there a lot of things that were inaccurate? I never watched documentaries. I think like... Never once? No, never once. I think the crux of it was wrong. Like, I think morally the biggest crime were these people who were backing me since I was 18 or 19 years old, who I took advantage of in the four months leading up to Fire Festival. And like, that's fucked up. I think as far as

the actual event, like, we all busted our asses to make this thing work. And anybody who's working the festival. No one thought it wasn't going to work beforehand. Like, afterwards, I can say it to make themselves look smart, but everybody working there thought the thing was going to happen. So I think the crime was more about like the abused trust and not the actual festival itself. And remind me, what were you actually charged and convicted of? So wire fraud for lying to investors to raise money in the, you know, months leading up to the festival. Is that, when you say you weren't out of integrity before the four months leading up to the festival, how were you out of integrity? Like explain it.

to someone who doesn't understand. So we just became desperate or I became desperate for the money to make the festival work. Is that what wire fraud is? Is to just, you just like raise money off false pretenses? Yeah. So like wire fraud is super, super broad. It's like, hey, you know, if I tell you, my apartment's worth a million bucks, you know, give me a loan against it and it's not worth that. And you give me money. Like, that's wire fraud. So like any, any exaggeration about like something's value or something's worth to get money is like technically wire fraud. So yeah, I liked to be invested about how well the company was doing. And like, it was really. bad. And I was saying we had more revenue than we did, blah, blah, blah, because I was

desperate for the cash. It's like, that was a true crime. But the money was spent legitimately trying to execute the festival. And like, that was pure, just stupidness in my part, not to zoom out. I'd be like, shit, this is not going to work. So it sounds like you made this kind of like public promise to do this festival. And then you realize it starts to get away from you and you're getting, and you got desperate to make it happen. And so you needed to bring in the cash. And so I think what you're saying is you exaggerated to the end. investors to bring that money in. But your intention was still then to use the money and pull off a successful festival. Absolutely. How much money did you raise? It's like 27 or 28 million. Wow.

Ish. You know what though? That's a lot of money to raise at 24 years old. To me, that's impressive that you raised that much money. I mean, what was your strategy with that? I was just, it was trust. That's why it's so fucked up. It's because these people, some of the investors were new, but a lot of them had backed me for five or six years. So when I call them and say, hey, listen, guys, like, this company is bigger than the previous ones are working on. Like, who are they to question me? Because they had seen me be honest and fail and succeed in little ways for so long. And are these celebrities, well-known people?

Are these people that are behind the scenes in business? More so in the business side. We did have some more like celebrity-type investors as well, but most of them were traditional like technology, venture capital, VC-type investors. Are the investors calling you when the festival is going on being like, I'm watching this on social media and it looks like a disaster? disaster or did they not even know anything was going on? The hardest part to handle as the festival is failing, or all the investors were, of course,

calling, and every single one had different directions and different feedback. And it's like, how do you handle 20 really, really smart people who are all great in their own ways telling me complete opposite things? And like, that was so challenging because I was trying to deal with a thousand people to get them home, X number of hundreds of, you know, contractors who were there. And now a couple dozen investors all telling me, like, that was telling me, like, that was trying to telling me, like, do this, don't do this, don't do this. And then I do one thing that one says and someone else yells at me. And it's like trying to learn how to deal with that is,

wasn't prepared for it. What were they all telling you? Like, what was some of the direction? I mean, the smart ones were saying, shut the fuck up, like, get everybody home safe and like say nothing. And other ones are giving me a complete opposite feedback. Like that you need to make a statement? Yeah, like go on all the media, like start selling tickets for next year. We want our money back. You know, I've heard every possible, like, piece of a device you can imagine. And then it really hit me the next morning, this one investor who I really respect at the time, this calls me and says, hey, you have to do this or else you're going to be in the cover of Walshie Journal and handcuffs. I'm like, I didn't fathom what I had done was a crime.

It was so obviously a crime looking back now. It deserved to go to jail. I did break the law, but I just like couldn't comprehend it. And he's like, you were going to be in handcuffs in the front page of newspaper unless you do X, Y, and Z. What did he tell you to do? Basically give him his money back. But at that point, I didn't have it. Yeah. Are you like turning your phone off after this? No, I didn't know what to do. I thought like I could work myself out of the problem. So I was talking to everybody trying to get feedback and come up with ideas and like just it was all stupid. And if I had to do it again, I would sit down, shut up, get everybody off, like say nothing and, you know, kind of plead guilty as quickly as possible

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Now that we've removed all of the toxic chemicals from our house, anytime I'm around them, I smell and notice and feel much different. I actually feel worse. Since we've implemented Branch Basics into the house, which is so easy to do, by the way, and I'll talk about that in a second, I feel way better, my sleep's better, my energy's better, I don't have any allergies. I just all around feel like I'm making a much better choice for myself and our family. It's such an easy change to make.

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of Branch Basics on this show. Save 15% and get free shipping when you use code Skinny at www. branch basics.com. Again, that is code Skinny for 15% off plus free shipping when you purchase starter kits. That's branchbasics.com promo code skinny. I truly have the hack to getting your baby to sleep through the night. I know this because I've been using this hack since Towns was born and it is an absolute game changer.

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What's it like to be riding that high in having that momentum and success in business and then get to the moment where you're about to, you know, in your mind, pull off this successful festival to the next day, nightmare scenario of being charged with the crime, having the world and your investors kind of turn against you. Like, what's going through your mind personally at that time? I think it was so weird was that I was running these businesses and had all these employees and all these people calling me, then all these investors I'm reporting to. And then news breaks I'm getting charged with the crime. And no one calls me. Like my phone goes completely silent. So it went from like constant stress is where I'm scared to check my phone every 30 seconds.

So now my phone is completely dead. How quickly after do you get charged? The investigation started like right after I came back to the U.S. And so it went from I'm in the middle of a shit storm to then my phone like I couldn't pay someone to pick up my phone call. Do you have a girlfriend or a partner or anyone at this time helping you through this or is it just you on your own? At this point it's just kind of you know no no no one's serious at that point no. Okay. And so did you have someone within the company that you worked with helping you like really by your side or was it really just falling on you? It really went from like I felt like I had 100 super close friends to like zero overnight. And why do you think so many people turn in

just because they found out that you lied and they were obviously disappointed? I think people are just getting really, I'm so scared of the government now. Like, you know, I would laugh. If you told me to be scared to them seven years, they would have laughed at you. But like, now I'm scared. And I think that people are just scared. And even if you're totally innocent, like, it's expensive to defend yourself, whether it's civilly or criminally, like just being involved in legal action is just not cheap and it's scary.

And like, if you are in the midst of that, and at that point, I was a lightning rod, whether it was getting lawsuits from everybody or like criminal actions, like, no one wants to be associated with someone. just kind of going through that storm. I'm like, I get it. When you say you're scared of the government, are you scared because you went to jail and saw like a different, a different side? What do you mean? Yeah, I just like saw what could happen, right? And like, I think I did 10 months total in solitary confinement. And, you know, I kind of, I grew up in a suburb in New Jersey, like being taught the world as fair. And of course, I was guilty and deserved everything they came of it. But like,

also to see that someone could snap their fingers and literally put you in a cage for 10 months. Like, that scared me. It's like, there is. someone out there who can literally go like this and like your life is over. I'm like, that's frightening when I didn't know that quite existed before. How are you managing your stress when you're going through all this? And what I mean by that is when you're being charged and there's people throwing lawsuits at you and you're having to go and defend yourself, like, how are you managing your stress levels? Because I imagine at that point, it's impossible to effectively run the businesses at all. So nobody's getting their money back. Yeah. The other side of that is you're

wondering every day if your freedom is going to be taken from you. What are you doing to manage your mindset? Yeah, it sucks. And arguably, like, that period when things are falling apart is worse than, like, going to jail or it's like worse than actually like knowing what the consequence was. So I imagine when you get to jail, it's like, okay, this is happening. Now you're going to do. It's like, okay, like, it's going to be absolutely miserable. But, you know, in this year, I can at least go home and still be semi young and, like, have a life. But not knowing is like certainly the hardest part. At what point do you think that jail is an actual possibility? Like, did you, when you were going through this, did you ever think that you were actually going to see the inside of a jail cell? were you thinking, hey, you'll go through here and a slap on the wrist? So I hired a lawyer. And then he's like, all right, let me see what the situation is. And then he calls me in a week later. He's like, Bill, you're going to jail. So he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, I talk to the government and, you know, they have you. And I was totally guilty. And he's like, you're going to jail. Are you at home when he calls you and says it? Yeah, I go to his office. I'm in his office.

And he's like, you're going to do some years in jail. And he's like, you're going to receive that news. He's like, he calls me and he's like, Bill, you should call your family. Like, you're going to be going to jail. And this is, this is like maybe like nine months before we actually go. So. But I mean, like when, when you get that news, yeah, what's your reaction? I would say, oh, like, why so long? And then like you'd explain to me because of the dollar amount, you get certain timelines based on how much money you lose, blah, blah, blah. And like, I'm trying to argue it. And like, still trying to fight back and not fully accepting the reality. He's like, oh, well, I only lost this much, not this much. And, you know, my mind said it was totally

wrong. It was like, yes, you were guilty. And like, shut the fuck. up. You're going to go to jail, but it's going to end. And like, I wish I knew to just like, just chill out. This is a total of six years, right? I was sentenced to six years served just over four. What did your parents say when you called them and told them this news? I think the biggest thing I learned from jail is the sentence is way harder on like your family and friends. Because when you're going through something, like at least you know what's happening in real time. But when you're not there and you can't see what's happening, your mind is goes to like the worst places. So I just felt the worst for all family and friends.

And I'm sure when you're inside, your parents are extremely worried for you as well. Yeah, they're scared and they just don't know what's happening, right? Like, you hear prison and you're just like, that's fucking awful. Like, what's going on? Like, what's he doing? Like, is he alive? And it's just, it's a tough time. Why did you have to go into solitary?

Is this nonviolent crime, right? I went twice. I went first time for three months, second time for seven months. The first time I was trying to write a book and I had like a USB recording device. So totally broke the rules and deserved it. Went to solitary for three months. The second time I tried doing a podcast. interview over like the jail payphone and that was not a good idea they caught you yeah they

don't like that are you not allowed to do that no you are but like it's kind of like the weird thing where it's like not against the rules like you still have even in jail you still have your first amendment rights so i didn't really break any rules but they weren't really sure what to do so they just put me in solitary for seven months and that was brutal because they were like fuck with me me mentally and like bill you're not getting out of here you're doing 10 10 years in solitaire confinement and they just fuck with me and i had no phone calls like no way to access the outside world. It was like going crazy. Like, fuck, am I literally going to be in this box for 10 years for doing a damn interview? They fuck with you on top of it? Yeah, so that was the hardest part.

That is twisted. Yeah. To say that. I mean, that's, that is like, that's mean. That's cruel. It's crazy. So, were you even allowed to read? You were allowed two books a week. And it sounds like a lot for a normal person. But when you have absolutely nothing else to do, you read, like, even if you're a slow reader, I read a book a day because like literally 24-7, you're locked in a cage. So I never I never understood that. Like, why can't we have more books, but wasn't the fight I was able to pick at the time? Growing up, a nice kid in New Jersey, your first day going in, what's that experience like? I imagine you're terrified. Yeah, I think I just didn't like, once again, didn't respect the prison etiquette initially. Prison is very, very behind racially, socially than the world is. It's probably like 50 or 60 years behind.

And then like growing up as an adult in Manhattan, it's probably 100 years behind like New York City. So not understanding that like there are these like weird social norms that you have to conform to. Like what? I mean, everything is just super fucking racist. And like if I went and talked with a non-white person, the white guys would get mad and like cause drama over it. And like, you know, it's like it's like as simple as that. And causing drama and like trying to explain to them like, well, I get along better with, you know, a 25 year old black kid from Brooklyn than a 60 year old like guy with a swastick on his forehead. So it's like, why I don't have to sit with this guy when I prefer to sit with this guy.

And like, I just didn't understand, like, how to balance. And what happens if you kind of step outside those balance? They check you pretty quick. I guess I was, like, too, like, I wouldn't say confident, but too, like, why can I? Like, why can I talk with a guy I'd rather hang out with in someone like you? I'm like, try to fight back or push back a little bit. And, like, it took a couple months to realize, like, at some point, it's got to stop causing, stop causing drama along the way. And do you ever fear for your well-being in there?

There was, like, a couple times early on. I was in the Brooklyn Detention Center, which is pretty rough where, like, you know, some guys would threaten stuff. And like, yeah, but it all ended up working out. Nothing ever terrible happened. But saw, you know, saw someone or like guy in the cell next to me got raped and like saw many people get stabbed. Someone commits suicides. Like it was bad. Like there was things happened. So how do you stay out of all that? Especially when you're doing as much time as you did. The biggest thing, it's all about money in jail. And a lot of people get in trouble because they owe people money. And most of the bills come from

drugs. And I've never been a drug person. Like never have done hard drugs in my entire life. But a lot of guys come in there. They're super depressed and they start doing hard drugs. and racking up debts to others. And when they can't pay those bills when the drama comes. So you stayed away, like, ultimately from the drugs and the gang situations. Like, no one's going to bother you because people are in there to do their gang stuff and make money from the drugs. And were you recruited to be in a gang when you were in there?

No. And I think, like, that's, like, a misconception a little bit, too is you don't have to, like, join a gang. And, like, generally, you hang out with people from your same area. So, like, there's New York guys. There's Philadelphia guys, whatever. So they'll hang out with the guys from your certain area. You're not in a gang, but no one really, like, bothers each other unless you're owing money you're trying to get into like if you're dealing drugs

people get mad but if you stay out of that whole business like no one really cares what was the most or who was the most interesting person that you met in jail there's got to be like a person so many yeah I bet so I think the biggest shock was you know we're taught in life there are good guys and bad guys and I get into jail and I think that like there's such a small percentage of the population it's actually bad people and like sure maybe five percent of the guys in jail are like actual terrible human being who should never get let out. The rest are just like somewhere else on the same spectrum that the rest of the world is. And, you know, due to circumstance, due to desperation, they committed a crime that somebody else might have too if they were put in that same spot.

So I think, like, that was eye-opening. Yeah, I had a friend from Chicago who at 19, he robbed a Walgreens. And since it was a pharmacy, it was a federal crime. And he got like 10 years in jail. And like the sweetest kid in the world, super nice, super talented. And like just got out now, like 28. So like lost his 20s from robbing. I think, yeah, like, $140 or something. which is just like absurd and like felt so bad for him, like an amazing, amazing human being. Because you're famous for all of this and you're in jail, was there a scarlet letter on your back because of that? Or was it like glitzy and glam to be famous in prison? I think it's tough knowing that at the end of the day, like people are after themselves in their own careers.

Right. So I think it's pretty obvious that like if you got me in trouble, you know, you're going to get a bigger star on your like on your desk. if you get somebody else in trouble who is in jail for 30 years and has no family, has no friends, right? So it did feel like I was a little bit of a target and like that sucks, just like sucks knowing that. Because you're saying like maybe the government had to make an example of you because it was so public. I think like once I'm in jail, though, even on like a micro level, right? Like, hey, hey, if a guard catches me doing something wrong, I'm sure he'll get a pat in the back type of thing. Like I certainly felt like I was being targeted in situations like that where they would, you know, come and try to catch me doing like stupid thing. So that was frustrating. This is a weird question

but I just want to know I'm obsessed with jail. I find it to be so interesting. If someone was going to jail, like what advice would you tell them? Most people who commit financial crimes will go to what's called like a camp, which is an insecurity place. Well, that's why I'm so surprised where you went. I started there. And like that's where I had the USB device and got in trouble.

In reality there, it's just like boredom and separation from your family are the two biggest, like, enemies. And you're not seeing any of the gang stuff, any of the violence. It was like due to my stupidity that I was escalated level. and exposed to different jails. And you went to Detroit? My last jail was in Myeland, Michigan, which is like outside of Detroit. Okay.

And yeah. So if someone was going to jail, what would you tell them? I think, like, they'll probably meet three or four great friends. And I'm like, that's a silver lining of it. Yeah, I think you definitely form a certain bond with people who go through a crazy experience together. But there also are, like, truly bad people, too, that just, like, don't know existed in the world. And for example, there were tons of these, like, child molesters. And I would sit there in these rooms and be like, if you offer me my freedom,

right now, I cannot go, go out in the world and find 20 of these guys. And like, somehow there's hundreds of them right here. So it's like, it is kind of like a crazy experience. When you are in jail, is that when the documentary came out? Yes, I was in jail when they came out. And did you see the press surrounding it from jail or no? So people watch TMZ religiously in jail. Like, that is the must watch TV every day. I think it's, it's a way to connect with the world. Yeah. So I was like walking by the TV room. I'm like, I saw my like, fat face pop up on TMZ. People saying like, they're, yeah, like, play, look, I turn around.

It's like, dueling documentaries. I'm like, oh, fuck. What do you mean your fat face? You're thin. I was so fat during this fire time. I was super fat. How did you lose weight? I think, like, once I got back to New York and the investigation stopped and they stopped,

like, going to four dinners a night. Like, just, you know. Well, I imagine the stress, too. Yeah, the stress too, for sure. So when you get out of jail, what is that day like? So I was sentenced to a five months and a halfway halfway half. house after jail, which is basically a jail that you can leave. And that was in Brooklyn. I just remember my parents picked me up in a rental car in Milan, Michigan. They give me a Timberlin wallet with

$200 and $20s in it. And they're like, good luck. It's probably not going to buy me a pair of jeans or whatever. So go to the halfway house and like just get to work and try to get back to life. And what's that transition like? It's so much harder than people think. And I thought I thought I would run out of jail. And then everybody who had believed to me before would like call me or like meet with me. The reality was like no one will pick up the phone. And it probably took like six months. I mean, some people picked up the phone, but I probably took like six months to get back to a place

where I can actually like have real relationships again. So that was hard. It's interesting. I've talked to people that have done stints in prison or in jail. And they say in some ways like a lot of the day-to-day stress of life kind of goes away while you're in there because you can't like you're not running your company. You're not paying bills.

You don't have a mortgage. Did you experience any of that while you were there? I think when you're in jail, you glamorize outside life so much where you just remember the best moments of their friends and your family and like, you know, that great birthday dinner you had and like whatever exciting life moments you had and you forget about the bad stuff. And it's like your body's way of protecting you and like keeping you going, right? So I think a lot of people are surprised by, you know, the reality of life. I think for me, just the hardest part was like the community I was in was not okay with like having a friend, right, who,

went to jail. So it was kind of like getting back to life was I was more prepared for like the stress of like life than like less prepared for like fuck these hundred people who I thought would be like running to me aren't picking up my phone call. Did anybody come back? Yeah, I had like four or five friends who really like who I probably didn't expect to step up like really, really stepped up and helped me right away and like forever grateful to them. And that that part was definitely tough. If I'm you, I wouldn't want those friends though in my life moving forward anyway. For sure. Like it's, you know, with all you've been through and they don't want to talk to you, it's kind of like, bye. Yeah. But it's hard. Like I've had friends get shit at work, right?

Like they'll work at a big tech company or at a big bank or at a law firm like, oh, why are we them? Like, you know, so it's still tough and it's not necessarily like their thought. It's like the social pressure they get to. And that just sucks. And I feel back for those people. There has to be though some kind of road to getting better. To redemption. Yeah. There has to be some kind of road. I mean, I think that it's unfair to just put you in a box forever. I don't think that's fair. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. I think what's sad, too, is a lot of really capable people who go to jail, like, they just give up, right? And they don't try to do anything with their lives after. And they kind of just like, sit at homes and play video games all day long. Like, oh, well, like,

the world's against me. And I think that mindset's, like, terrible. But I can, but I can see why that happens now, because it is tough. And it did take so much longer than I thought to, you know, get back to some sense of reality. You know, one of the reasons we wanted to, to have you on here is I think for this part, which is you have this experience, you have this failure that ends with your incarceration. And then now you're from what I'm seeing, you're back on the horse again. And I guess what we're wondering is like, you're doing this, you're doing fire festival too. So I can't, I can't tell if this is like one of the dumbest things or if you have some of the biggest balls in the world or like the motivation to go back is this

to kind of prove to yourself that you could, that you can, that you can, do what you said out to do the first time? Or like, why go back to this again after everything? Like, I'm obsessed with paying people back. And that is not just financially. And like, yes, it's a big part of it. But I think other part of it is rebuilding trust. I think there's like so much in me where I want to be like, hey, yes, I was totally an asshole for this period of time and I was totally wrong. But I'm not that bad guy. I'm the guy who you initially believed in. And I want to prove that I'm still that person. And that's why I want to do fire festival too. break to talk about Armra. We just had Dr. Sarah on the show to talk all about the benefits of

Colosrum and specifically Armour Colostrum. You guys know that I'm always on the lookout for great supplements and this one is an absolute game changer. If you want to strengthen your immunity, improve your gut health, improve your fitness metabolism and enhance your skin or hair, which everyone wants to, then I highly suggest you check out Armour. Not only do I take it, Lauren takes it, our children even take it, and we are on fire. With kids back in school, especially right now in the winter season. We want to boost our immune system. So everyone in the family is taking this and we have not been sick since. It's super simple to use. The way we do it was actually just dump the powder in our mouth. But if you want to just put it in water and stir it up,

you can also do that. And for those that want to know a little bit more about Coloschum, Colossum is the first nutrition we receive in life and contains all of the essential nutrients our bodies need in order to thrive. Armour has a proprietary concentrate of bovine colosherom that harnesses over 400 living bioactive nutrients that rebuild the barriers of your body. This is a every single barrier in your body to fuel cellular health for host of research-backed health benefits. Like I said, it strengthens your immunity, ignites metabolism, it's anti-inflammatory, it fortifies your gut health, and it activates hair growth and skin radiance. That's been an absolute game changer for myself and our family. To check it out, we've worked out a special offer for our audience.

Receive 15% of your first order. Go to tryarmra.com slash skinny or enter skinny to get 15% off your first order. That's T-R-M-R-M-R-A.com slash skinny. Let's talk about Weight Watchers. Weight Watchers is the number one doctor-recommended weight management program and the trusted authority in evidence-based weight health. Beyond the science joining Weight Watchers means you become part of a powerful, passionate community. They're all about community there.

We got to learn all about that when we had the CEO on our podcast. The company's purpose is to always inspire healthy habits and lasting weight loss. So how they do this is they focus on behavior change, nutrition, science, and real connections, while never giving up on the food that we all love. Personally, I really love how they've evolved their approach to weight loss over the years, and they're really like with the times, which I appreciate. Weight Watchers has helped millions of members on their journeys over the years, and recently they've launched Weight Watchers Clinic.

And this provides support to even more people across the weight health spectrum. Most importantly, I think that Weight Watchers knows that weight management is not a one-size-fits-all thing. There are behavioral and biological factors to consider, so they really have a multi-faceted approach when it comes to losing weight. Head to www.com slash TSC to see if you qualify. If you do, use our code TSC-25 to get your first month free. Plus, you get $25 off your second month. That's www.com slash TSC. You have seen me on Instagram story and you've seen a visual of my skin.

Probably 60% of the time I'm wearing like a really great oil, a serum, maybe some like under eye situation. And I'm always wearing a mineral SPF that's tinted. And the one that I've been using is one skin. So I've showed this on my Instagram. But basically I got to interview one of the founders of one skin and I learned all about their products. Their products are validated by dermatologists to significantly improve firmness, reduce fine lines and strengthen the skins barrier, which is all really important for skin health. And their products are designed around that. So to know that their SPF is vegan, cruelty free, fragrance free and it has a skin safe seal of approval, plus it has results is awesome for me.

I love this sunscreen. I've been telling my friends about it. It lays so nicely under makeup. And the ingredients are amazing. If you're going to check out another one of their products, I would get their eye topical. I have been using this eye cream. And I can tell that it's strengthened underneath my eyes. I know that sounds so weird, but the skin's so delicate. And it's actually firmed up the skin under my eyes. Go check out their tinted mineral sunscreen. and grab their eye topical, you won't be sorry. Visit OneSkin.co and use code Skinny15. You get 15% off your first purchase. That's OneSkin.com and use code Skinny 15 for 15% off your first purchase. So how do you even begin to start, okay, say that I'm an investor. Sure. And you come to me.

Pitch him. Pitch him. I want to hear what you pitch because damn, 27 million dollars. I know. It's great. Shitload of money, man. Because if you come to me and say, hey, I have an idea for Fire Festival 2. and I need to raise money

and I'm just a basic guy and let me Google and see what happened with Fire Festival 1 I would think that the chips are a little bit stacked against you

I disagree you know what Billy I disagree I want to start the fight I think that he has so much to prove no but I'm just wondering how you

I think he's going to have this moment where he proves everyone wrong I really do well I hope so he spent so much time thinking and being

quiet in jail and strategizing and planning, I actually think that he's going to pull it off. It looks like you are, but I'm wondering like how you even start approaching people with, hey, I'm doing this thing again after the first experience. It's a great question. Everybody asked that question, which I love. And I think since 2016, Fire has been the most talked about festival in the world. Coachella's in second place and it's like three and a half times many like mentions and, you know,

appearances that Coachella's had since then. And I was talking to some like some big festival company. I'm like, what would you have to do to start a festival next year and get the awareness of fire? It took spending $28 million, committing crimes, going to jail, having multiple documentaries. It was almost this perfect storm that was needed to create this brand awareness. So if a professional can come in and actually do it right, you don't have to worry about any of that brand awareness. It would cost you so much money and so much time otherwise. So I think that's the opportunity.

It's crazy to me. People know about it. So if it's done right, it's good. I'll be an investor. Thank you. Let's go. Are we going to Fire Festival, too? You guys are definitely coming.

I'm sold. I'm honestly sold. I think that you're smart. You have a lot to prove. You want to do the right thing. And I think you're going to do it. Well, it sounds like people wanted this thing to be a success from the beginning. Obviously, didn't get all these people to sign up and all these artists to participate.

Like, they believed in the vision. It's just the execution of it was not up to par. Yeah. The execution was terrible. The line of investors were terrible. But if I can separate myself from that and have like a professional company, do the logistics, have someone manage the money, then we have a really, really great chance to make a good story. You know what I would do? I would have it all set up. Like, say it's on Friday,

I would have it all set up on Monday. So you can just feel really good about it. And then you can go and like show on social media that it's already, the infrastructure is already set up. And you can feel good about it. I think where one of the, where you got in trouble in one of the instances is like, it sounds like a lot got procrastinated until the very last second. So you were like, fuck, what do I do? And that's where the scrambling happened.

If I would set it all up, so you're just chill that week. I like that. I don't know if that's like way more money. You might need a couple more investors to have it set up that long. But then you're like, you can have like actually enjoy it and savor it. And sleep the night before.

Yes. I have a personal question. Sure. So a lot of people that listen to this show, you know, they've experienced failures. And we all experience failures. But I think.

getting back up and continuing to try is the thing that in the end will make people either win or lose, right? I believe you don't really fail unless you just quit trying. Having the experience that you had and crashing and burning as hard as you did. And like, you didn't just lose a business. You lost your freedom. How do you get back on the horse per se? Like, how do you find it? How do you start to say, okay, like, I'm going to take another swing at this. I think the pessimistic view here, I think that small failures are really good for you. I think that huge failures are actually devastating. And I think the reality is most people can't come back from huge failures. And like I saw it with a capable guys in jail who just can't recover from it. And it's really, really sad.

And you would classify yours as a huge failure. I do. I think it's super hard to come back from. I think all the little failures I had leading up to that were very, very beneficial. And this one probably wasn't. But at the end of the day, I think there's so many times. And after we failed and we want to get back started again, we predict problems. right. Oh, well, if we start doing well, in six months, this is going to happen. Well, nine months, this is going to happen. In reality, almost all of those problems end up sorting themselves if you just take action. So I think like don't think about what problems you might have in the future. Just like just start going now and this problem is most likely disappear. And how do you block out

noise from the naysayers and for people? Because, you know, we're researching you read the comments and people, you know, there's a lot of people saying a lot of nasty shit, obviously because they have the perspective of the documentary. But how do you kind of block. out that noise and set out to prove those people wrong. Interesting. I think it's kind of like if you walk in light rain, like you're getting mad like when a little drop hits you, right? But if you go swimming in the ocean, you just like forget you're wet. So at a certain point there's just like so much shit that I stopped paying attention to like the bulk of it. So in a weird way, like once you have nothing to lose, now it becomes

more stress-free. I think that everyone, when it comes to online personalities, sometimes they build you up so high and then they tear you down. But I also think that you, you that people want to see like an underdog win. And I think the internet, when you do fire two and you do it right, is going to surround him with positivity. I'm going to just put that out. Well, no, I think it's good that you're doing these kind of shows because I think it gives people much different perspective.

Yeah. Right? Like when I hear your story, I'm like, okay, here was a young guy, very ambitious, that set out to try to create a great experience for people, but fell short on the delivery and also was out of integrity a bit. But I don't look at you like, man, this guy was out to rob people and he was out to steal people's money. And like, obviously you're not sending all these people to an island with the intention that they're going to have a bad time. And I think it's good that you're doing these because I think it humanizes you a lot more than, you know, somebody's showing

you on a documentary and giving their outside perspective. Yeah, unfortunately, the salacious stories are always better, right? Like, you know, he stole $20 million dollars and went and parted on a yacht. It's a better story than in the details. There's obviously a lot of issues in this country with the justice system, but I don't think anyone can listen to like, okay, like you made some mistakes, but six years of your life was taken from you. And that happens to so many people and they take much more time from a lot of people. And it's, you know, it's an injustice.

But I think people listening to this and saying, okay, he fucked up this festival. But like, you paid a really heavy price. It's hard. And like there are some days where you're depressed about the number. And then I go and meet someone. who has 30 years and never hurt anybody. And it's like, wow, like, I'm really grateful. So it's kind of like, Sundays are great.

Some days are terrible. It's just like hard to get there. I don't think people can contextualize. I mean, like, even when we were talking off air and you said, hey, you were, you know, you missed basically all of COVID and, you know, New York for six years and you get out and things are just completely different. Yeah, I don't think people realize. Is it really feel different?

New York's like dangerous now. What do you, like, what do you mean? It's weird. Like, when people, we've been coming here for the last like five years all, like all the time. So I don't know what you mean. Like, what do you mean? I think, like, New York, you know, you would never think twice about walking down any street

in Manhattan late at night six years ago. Huh. And like, now you do. And I was almost mugged one night. Like, some guy jumped out from behind the car to try to mug me. And, like, I've seen other guys, like, having been in jail, I know what, like, the Jack boys look like now. I saw a couple groups who are, like, looking for their big, like, looking for their targets.

Like, wow, this is like, the city has totally changed. So, yeah, it's gotten more to intercept for COVID. The one's oblivious to all that, which is. Yeah. I'm a little oblivious. Yeah. But, you know, what do you want me to do? My content guy here, he got mugged, you know, a handful of months ago, too.

This camera stolen. Oh, my God. That's scary. Yeah, Lauren, it could be scary. Lauren's like walking around, Lottie Dawn. I'm like, hi, how you doing? I used to be like that. Like, it's like legitimately changed now.

She's like, this dark alley looks nice. Let's go down this one. What's cool now is the outdoor dining. So all the restaurants got like the outdoor permits during COVID. Yeah. And they just all stayed. Yeah, that is cool. The summer was great.

So like every restaurant that used to only be inside. Now I have people outside all summer long. So that was like create a kind of fun. Fun vibe. Have you had good experience going out in New York City and being in public? Have people been like embracing you? 95% positive. I think people in general in New York are so caught up in their own bullshit where if they don't like you, they're not going to like even entertain the thought of like talking to you like, oh, they're too cool to acknowledge you. And then once you do say something you're one, too are supportive. So yeah. That's good. Just a New York mentality. When do you think that you're

going to do fire to? And in the next year. So 14 months first four. So, we better get this right. What are you doing differently this time outside? Yeah, I want to know all the things you're doing differently. Like having a real festival company do all the work. So I will not be doing logistics. And I think my job here is to tell a really good story and to help craft it. So it's three days that you talk about forever. Like if I can do that, I win. And I should not be setting up stages, building bathrooms, building tents, like let somebody else do all of that place. What does the day to day right now look like for an event at the end of next year? I think right now was just getting the best partners on board for everything, whether it's a festival, whether it's for

a documentary. We're also working on a fire Broadway musical with a totally separate partnership, which I think is going to be fucking wild and like the guys doing it are so smart and creative. I want to go see that. Yeah, I think that's going to be absolutely insane. It just takes time to get on Broadway. It takes a couple of years, but they're crazy. I think you have patience. You have, I bet you learned a lot of patience. Yeah, a lot of patience. A lot of long nights alone in a bunker. Yeah, you have time to think. You have space. How many people have already bought tickets, or have you not opened it up yet? We've sold, we did like the first 100 tickets at the end of August.

They were sold out in a little over a day. Cool. Yeah. And it's like that first drop went really, really fast. And do you know where it's going to be? I know where it's going to be, but have not said publicly yet. Okay. Is it going to be on an island?

It's going to be on an island, yes. Oh my God. I'm budding my tongue. Don't let me say anymore. We're rooting for you. I'm rooting for you. You guys will be there. You know what?

I like a cheese sandwich too. There you go. I like it on sourdough. Before I commit, I do want to know who the production partners are and who's doing this. Good question. I'm going to prove everyone wrong. You are. I know you are.

Thank you. Do you find humor in all of this? I think what my biggest dream right now is I want to go shake the hand of everybody I fucked over. And these are mostly investors and be like, hey, like I did it. I paid you back and not just money, but like you trust me now. I somehow like made up for your lost time. Like that'd be the coolest feeling in the world. So I want to get there.

It'll take 10 years. but that would be amazing. You're going to do it. Yeah, thank you. You got, you know what? It's not going to be fun. You can use this sound bite as an ad for Fire 2. Runic, you know.

In 10 years when they're all paid back, you said it here first. So is that all you're working, I mean, not all you're working on, but is that what you're like, is that your job Fire Festival too? And just do a bunch of marketing work to keep the lights on. Got it. So help like venture backed startups just do. marketing campaigns. And you're doing podcasts. And doing podcasts. Damn. Billy.

Go to hell of a store, man. Where can everyone buy tickets? Fire Festival 2.com and we'll see you guys there. Curveball. Didn't realize we'd be pushing out Fire Festival 2. There are no tickets for sale. You can't wear the website anyway? Can I help you brainstorm for creative? I have like, why don't you do like baguette like beautiful bread? Yeah. With like a delicious brie cheese and make cheese sandwiches like completely rebranded. Super high end. Yeah, make like the coolest fucking cheese sandwich anyone's ever seen. Will you serve them?

Yes. I'll serve them in a bikini. Deal. Yeah. Get me there. All right. Tickets back on sale. I'm just kidding.

Yeah. That's a good idea. It's a good idea. It's a good idea. Like let's talk. I have some ideas. Podcasts. You know who else should be on the billboard of this when you do a billboard?

What's the guy's name that you were looking at his Instagram? Andy King? The older guy. Yeah. Oh, he's, he's, he's great. Okay, can we get him on a billboard saying I'm back on board? For sure. Yeah, like, can we, like, I feel like we need to like,

why are we doing this now? Can we get your ruleback? I don't know about that, but we'll stick with Andy King. Yeah, let's stick with Andy King on the billboards all over New York City. We can do better. Yeah, be like, I feel like you need billboards to be like, I'm back. I love it. Or we could like take pictures of really pretty cheese sandwiches and put them all over.

That's what we should do. Yes. I'm so in. It's a good idea. It's a good idea. Should the cheese sandwiches be in the billboards and more like a gorilla thing where we're just like... I think you should do wild postings. I actually have a person if you want me to connect you. Please. Yeah, I have a great person. Okay. You should do cheese sandwiches on the wild postings. And then you should get Andy King's face on the billboards saying like something fucking cheeky and funny that everyone wants to post on their social media. So you get free PR and you say we're back.

I love it. I love it. We just got to get a huge orange billboard, Andy King's face and some great tagline. I think that you should just take everything that everyone made fun of on the internet and do it better. How couldn't you guys join the team? Let's go. Listen, I might have been convinced on this show. I'm telling you. I love a story. I'm going to shut this podcast down. I love a story of redemption. Yeah, I mean, let me dissect the documentary and I'll DM you a couple of my ideas. Why did you never watch the documentary? They came out in jail. And I think at that time, I would have been like so focused on what was true and what wasn't true. And that was the wrong response. But in hindsight, you've never wanted to. to go back and say like what it's too much and now I'm like now it's like my like ego it's like I'm not

watching the shit and so at some point I will I think after the next one goes well I'll watch I don't I don't think that he should let that negativity enter his ether on his next journey like why even let that into his space he's so focused on proving everyone wrong I just think to watch that would be just well not saying you should I was just curious why you didn't yeah like first like just to kind of protect myself and then like became a point of pride and also like in reality most of the real like management level people didn't interview. I think if you have like a real career going on that wasn't just fire, you didn't want to be associated like with the failure, right? So it was mostly like ancillary people who weren't

like there for most of the key moments. So I kind of felt like the true story wasn't told. And then that's something that I have. So whether it's a book or a movie or a Broadway show, like whatever it is, right? There will be a time and place to to at least tell different versions of the events. Did they ever try to get you to participate? I interviewed for the Hulu one. But I think I sat down for like nine hours and it was chopped up to a couple minutes. And so it's like, it's tough. right. Oh my God. You sat down for nine hours. I'm not sure how long my total talking time was in the actual dock, but it could have been more than what three, four, five minutes. And why did that older man get so famous? I forgot. He was on the dock and he was just like, why? Like what was so. I'm not

going to say it. I mean, he's just a character. You know? No, really. I don't know exactly why he got so famous. Why did he get so famous? He was just quirky. I think. I think he was quirky. I'm not going to say it. What? Can you say? I don't remember what he did. What did he do again? Why is everyone smiling? We could cut it out of it. There was allegedly a shipment of Evian water held up in customs. And he said that he was going to go blow the guy to get the water released. And like, you'd say, I'll do whatever it takes.

So that's like, that was his moment. He said I'll blow the guy. Was he being funny? Well, it was news to me when it came. All I remember this jail guard came out to me and goes, hey, do you tell Andy King to go blow some like government official? I'm like, wait, what? Oh, oh, oh. What are you talking about?

You could tell me. He's saying that you said to go blow the guy. Yeah, yeah. But there was. But like that's, that's being funny. I say that all the time. Who do I have to blow to get in?

I had seen him since. I'm like, dude, what actually happened? He's like, oh, well, someone called me saying that you said that I need to go blow this guy.

So it was like, they probably said, Billy said whoever you have to blow to get the water as a joke. Yeah. And it was taken like as a literal order. That's something I would say. So like, I was cornered in jail.

Like, what are you talking? Like, I didn't remember this ever happening. and now I'm like, wait, what? Oh, let me think about that. There's a slogan there. I know.

Like, you got to take that slogan. Whatever it takes. But Andy's back on board. I saw him, I saw I'm doing some social promo with you. And he's great. I can't wait to see you thrive. Billy,

thank you for coming on the show. What's your Instagram, pimp yourself out? P-Y-R-T Billy. Pirate Billy. Pirate Billy. I like it. Didn't want to go.

Didn't want to apply a little more under the radar with this. Straight up coming back as a pirate. That's the first mistake. It's going to crash. Thank you, Billy. Thank you, guys. Well, that was a story.

I hope you guys loved this episode with Billy McFarland. And I can't wait to see what he does with Fire too. We'll have to see. Make sure you're following us on Instagram at TSC Podcast. And if you want to watch any of our episodes, they are all up on YouTube. Simply search The Skinny Confidential. Enjoy.