The Bossticks - Genie Bouchard - How To Develop A Winning Mindset, Thrive Under Pressure, & Stay On Top Of Your Game

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

#759: Join us as we sit down with Genie Bouchard, a Canadian professional tennis player who became the first in her country to be ranked Top 5 in the World. At a young age, Genie was destined for greatness and made the life-changing decision to pursue tennis professionally after qualifying for a tournament in France at just nine years old. In this episode, Genie opens up about her journey, the sacrifices she has made, her mental preparation strategies, & the pressures female athletes face in the world of competitive sports.  To connect with Genie Bouchard click HERE To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn's favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes. This episode is sponsored by JSHealth Vitamins Visit jshealthvitamins.com/skinny and use code SKINNY to receive 20% off your order or first subscription order. This episode is sponsored by Philadelphia Cream Cheese Visit creamcheese.com. This episode is sponsored by BILT Earn points by paying rent right now when you go to joinbilt.com/skinny. This episode is sponsored by Origins Prepare your skin for the future with Youthtopia™ by Origins. Available now at origins.com and ULTA. This episode is sponsored by Cotton: The Fabric of Our Lives Cotton is The Fabric of Now. Learn more at TheFabricOfOurLives.com This episode is sponsored by LMNT Get your free LMNT Sample Pack with any purchase at drinklmnt.com/SKINNY. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

The number one thing that stands out to me is the capacity to deal with pain. And I mean physical pain. Like we push ourselves through training every single day, and it is brutal. Actually, another book I read that I liked was the David Noggin's book, and he in there wrote Schedule Suffering in Your Day. And that kind of helped me accept the fact that I have to suffer to do my job. You know, it takes a strong person to be able to do that. And so I look at all my fellow tennis players, and I'm like, yep, we all have accepted the fact

that, like, we have to go through physical pain almost every single day. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. Today we have Jeannie Bouchard on this podcast. and boy, is it timely because I am working on my tennis game. I'm getting very competitive. So for those of you who are unfamiliar with Jeannie Bouchard, she is a Canadian professional tennis player

who became the first in her country to be ranked top five in the world. At a young age, Jeannie was destined for greatness and made the life-changing decision to pursue tennis professionally after qualifying for a tournament in France at just nine years old. In this episode, we talk about human performance, how to compete, how to become an athlete, how to take care of your body, how to have a proper mindset, it, all the things that it takes to be great.

This is an episode that's applicable not only to athletes, but anyone that wants to perform at the highest levels, live better, feel better, and crush the competition. Hopefully that's everybody. With that, Jeannie Bouchard, welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

We are really into, we told you, this off-air, getting our kids to play tennis. And I feel like there has to be a little bit of manipulation involved, meaning like someone told us that we need to put them on the court, and then at like five minutes be like, time to go, right when they're having fun. Oh. Yeah. So you want to play mind games with your kids?

Kind of. That's interesting. My parents didn't do that with me, but... She's like, that's not the way of it. So give us advice on how to get our kids to play. Well, I think it's great for kids to play all kinds of sports. First of all, I played a lot of different sports growing up. I played basketball, soccer, swimming, ice skating.

I'm from Montreal. I'm Canadian. So I think it's great to just develop all kinds of athletic skills. And I just really love tennis. And that's how it happened for me, where I just, only wanted to play tennis, and then they realized that. And so I started doing, you know, group lessons, private lessons, and I played my first tournament when I was eight. So I started at about four and a half five, played my first tournament when I was eight. Very quickly, it became

like another full-time job on top of school and a sacrifice and a complete dedication to trying to become a professional. But I would say get them started early and young, because you need that good technique, that good, like, foundation. It's like golf, I mean, like most sports to, to, try to become, if you want to become, if you want a little prodigy, it depends what you want for your kids. I'd like a prodigy. It's a nice to have a prodig. No, because you know, it's hard. We were joking around. We are trying to learn tennis now. And it's nice because we have to travel a lot. And when we travel, you can always find a tennis court. And it's something as we get older and you don't want to hurt yourself too bad, even though I know tennis can get intense. Yeah. It's something we can do together

and something you can always find and something that I think you can age with. But it's hard because we're trying to program like all of the skills and the coordination and the form and all that into our brains now like well into our 30s. And I feel like it would have been much easier to just grow with that. Yes. It's so much easier to start early. It's like learning a language or anything. You know, when the kids are young, your brains are sponges and you can absorb so much. So I would say definitely start early. And yeah, tennis is such a lifelong sport. I mean, you're not going to be playing football when you're seven years old, right? But you're going to be going to the tennis port with the girls and having a little social time. So it's an amazing sport because

of that. When you're four and a half years old, does your dad like hand you a tennis racket? Explain, like, when you say you played tennis at four and a half, I have a four and a half year old. What, like, what does that look like for you? So I probably have swung a tennis racket since before then. I remember going to the basement with my, like, I have a twin sister. So my dad would, like, throw us, like, soft balls and we would swing a racket. And this is probably at age three. So, you know, you want to give them rackets and balls and things right away to get that hand-hydrogenation. going. And then I started doing these little, like, after kindergarten, like one hour a week lessons, or group kind of lessons. And all the kids loved it because it was games, right? It was a lot of, like, bouncing balloons or jumping in hoops. And we only hit tennis balls for 10 minutes at the end. So all the normal kids loved it, and I hated it. I would get off the court, I would go crying to my parents. And I would be like, I want to play more tennis. We only hit tennis balls for 10 minutes. I don't want to bounce balloons. And they were like, okay, she's not normal. Let's, you know, like adjust my twin sister retired at age six and I just kept going.

And what does it look like to become what you've become? Meaning how rigorous is your day to day when you're like eight? Are you waking up early before school? Like what does it look like to become this level of professionalism? A lot of that. Exactly right. My mom would drive me to training before school and pick me up, drive me to school, pick me up early from school, go to more training,

and then go home, dinner, homework, bed, and start all over again. It was really a lot. I missed a lot of, you know, family, you know, Christmas, vacation, sleepovers with my best friends, which as like a 10-year-old is a big deal, right? So there's a lot of sacrifice that's involved. I have three siblings, so we're four kids total, and I joke that, like, my parents trying to deal with me is, like, three kids in one. And so I don't know how we all manage this, but it's a real, like, family sacrifice.

And I moved to Florida when I was 12, so I went to go train at an academy there. Wow. Yeah. That's gnarly. So when you look back, are you grateful or are you like, oh, I wish I could have, like, had balance? Or what is your energy now when you have this prospective bird's eye view? So grateful.

I think I lived a very unique life so far, and I would not change it for the world. But I do recognize the sacrifice I took to get there. And that's the thing that people don't see as much, you know, they see you playing in the finals of Wimbledon. and they see you on a red carpet in L.A. And they're like, oh, yeah, your life is so glamorous. But it's like the hours of work every single day for 15 years, for 20, 25 years to get there, people don't realize that.

And so I just explain that to people. And, you know, I would not change up for the world. But I do feel like I missed out on some things in life. Like I never had, went to prom. All my friends went to college. I didn't experience that. And then my friends are like, yeah, well, you were, you know, traveling around the world playing amazing tennis tournaments.

And it's like, yes, of course. But there's always a part of you that wants to like feel a little more normal, right? Sure. And so when you are playing at that level, are you able to have any fun? Like when you said you didn't go to college, like were you ever to ever have like college-like experiences? Or were you just so rigorous with the training? So the only similarities I would say is so sometimes when we play tournaments and you lose, you have like maybe a day off or so before you go to the next city for the next tournament.

And sometimes you like text another place. who lost and be like, okay, like, let's go out. And you kind of are both just sad and miserable about losing and try to blow off some steam. So every once in a while there's like a fun, like night out or like we have sometimes player parties. And it's few and far between. But sometimes, yes, I would definitely, you know, try to experience being a little bit normal. But it wasn't that often. And do you feel when you were a kid, do you feel that sense of competition?

Like are you obviously you have to be a competitive person to what you do? Like, has that always been ingrained in you? Like, if you would lose when you were a kid, would you get upset or how did you manage? Oh, completely. And to the point where I'm like, I'm 10 years old and I'm like, okay, I'm quitting because I lost, you know, because I'm so mad that I lost the match. I mean, I can't help be competitive. My whole family is as well. I was actually just at my sister's bachelorette this past weekend.

And we had games of, you know, competition. And when I tell you, like, I could not lose. It was like, it's bad. It's almost like I need to like relax a little bit. What do you think that comes from? It's genetic. You just think it's just coded in you. Is your sister like that?

So my younger sister is a bit more like me and my younger brother as well, but my twin sister, who is obviously my twin, we're so different. And so it's just really interesting to see because obviously we were born at the same time, raised the same way with the same parents, and we're totally different personalities. And so that's why I believe a lot of it is just internal. That's wild that even when you're not playing tennis, there's like a competitiveness. So listen, I got to be one of the gals at the vatsy rep party and I got to go up against you and I'm just like, I'm going to pin the tail on whatever.

Is that what they do? Yeah, no, I would just opt out. I wouldn't. If someone's like, we're playing pickleball, I would just be like, you know, you won. Yeah. No, it's funny. We separated into teams and everyone's like, I want you on my team, but it was like a random choosing of teams.

But we did like, like, backyard school games. You know where you have like the, you have to attach your leg to like your teammate and then do the three-legged race and the spoon with the egg. Like we did like the old school stuff like that, which obviously my team won. That sounds pretty tame for a bachelor's party. Well, I'm, I'm... What else did you do you? You do a little. Listen, this is an open and this is a show.

These are the daytime activity. The daytime activity. Yeah, nighttime was a whole different ballgame. Taylor's getting a little excited back there. So we have to just calm him down. We had a checklist of, you know, tasks we had to complete on the night out and, you know, find some boys to complete them with. And so that's what we had to do. That sounds fun.

Like a scavenger hunt. Yes, exactly. It was exactly that. Listen, they think the bachelor parties are crazy. It's the bachelorette parties. I see these people out. I know what's going on. My bachelorette party was crazy and wouldn't you like to know?

You never are going to know. You know? I like to keep you guessing on that. You never told him the details? A little detail here and there. I like to let the details come out over the years. I think it's like more spicy. Interesting.

Okay. So the sacrifice that you have put in to do this is crazy. And I think I feel like everyone in their life has some kind of sacrifice, whether it's they sacrificed not doing tennis. there's outcomes of that. When you look back on all your sacrifices, are there moments where you actually really wanted to quit? Like you kind of said you kind of did,

but did you actually want to quit? There were moments in the heat of the battle of after just losing a match where I'm like, okay, this is it. Like, I can't go through this pain anymore because it's so hard. If you think about a tennis, you finish the match and you either won or you lost.

It's a really emotionally volatile sport or job. It's not like you go to the office, you work eight hours and you go home. It's like you end the day on a high or on a low. And so it's a tough emotional roller coaster. And I remember feeling, you know, so down after matches, like, okay, I'm really going to like stop playing. But it was never real because, you know, by the time I sleep and wake up the next day, I'm like, hey, life is okay. It's just a tennis match.

And when you put things in perspective, it's not so bad. And I'm like, look, I'm going to keep playing until I don't enjoy it anymore. And I still kept enjoying it. So it was not real. One day it will be real. One day I will really retire. But I mean, it's also crazy because it's just you, like other sports. You know, it's a team sport or whatever.

You have, like, the rest of the team is, you know, I know you have coaches and people around you and stuff like that. But, I mean, it's really at the end of the day. It's like you out there. Exactly. So I try to explain to people. It's like one player with like a little mini team as opposed to being on a real team like a basketball or soccer or something like that. And it makes it so much mentally harder because it's only you out there. And yes, when you win, it's all you.

But then when you lose, it's also all you. And I feel like I would take losses really hard because of that. But there was no way I could play a team sport. Like I don't have to depend on anyone else. And I think that's part of the reason I love time. Yeah, I would like that too. It's like you have to depend on yourself. Yeah. Was there a point when you started winning and winning and winning? And did you always know that you wanted to go pro? Yeah. So, you know, soon after I played my first tournament at eight, at nine years old, I qualified for this 12 and under tournament in France. I got to travel to France to play a tournament. And I was like, I can play tennis. I can travel the world. Like, this is going to be my job. I just decided at nine years old. And I know that's really young. And I don't recommend people normally doing that. But it's just kind of the way it happened to me. And I was like on a mission, one track.

like I'm going pro and there's no other option. I've heard you, we've seen you talk about perfectionism before. Where do you think that comes from? Was that from your parents? Is that just something, again, genetic? Or like, what do you think that's about? I think it's a lot of just how I was born. Yeah, because, I mean, I can remember coming home from school before, you know,

tennis was really taking over and I was still pretty young. And I would go home and I would do my homework right away. My twin sister would go home, would want a snack, would watch cartoons. And then like at 9 p.m., my parents have to, like, wrestle her to get her to do her homework. And so it just shows you that like I had that kind of innate like discipline, like wanting to work, wanting to get the job done. It just, I was just like a nerd, you guys. Like I'm sorry. I just want to do things right.

What do you think that's from? Have you ever had like step back and thought about why your program like that? You know, I'm a big rule follower, which sounds really lame. And it's like if my parents told me to do something, like I did it. You know, I really wanted to like make sure I did things right. Like I don't want to do anything wrong. I don't want to break the law. I'm fun, I swear, but this part of me is like a little nerdy.

I feel like that's the why you probably like tennis so much. It's in or it's out. There's no, there's rules around it. Is it proper form or there's not? And you win or you lose. There's not like this tying BS that happens in soccer, right? It's like you got to. You can't tie in tennis.

No. And that might be a dumb question, but I'm just new to the sport. I didn't know that, that you can't tie. I guess it's impossible, right? Well, not many sports. can tie, to be fair. In most sports, you have to go to a tie breaker or overtime. Okay.

But soccer, you can really end the match with a tie. With a tie. Michael and I, like you said, are picking up tennis. Now, I don't mean to brag, but I used to play tennis when I was little. Nothing like you. It's like when someone says they did ballet or tap dance. So I have a little bit more of an advantage. But that's like me saying like I used to play tennis when I was little too because I hit a ball once.

No, no, I didn't hit a ball once. I went to tennis camps. No, no, no. Six times. No, no, no. Tennis camp. Went to tennis camp every single summer for like eight years. I went like twice for like two years.

So what would you give your advice to a brand new tennis player like Michael? My first advice would be keep your eye on the ball. I mean, it's all about that hand-eye coordination. And so it sounds so cliche, but you really have to do it. Like as a professional, I remind myself to look at the ball. Because that's how your brain knows where to put your body to make sure you hit it properly. Okay. You know what's hard for me about?

tennis? No. Well, there's a lot of things that are hard about tennis. So I used to box. Okay. And with box, you don't want to be out.

Like, you don't want to be like out like this all the time because you're going to get waxed in the head. Right. The footwork's very similar, actually,

tennis. Like, you know, you're not crossing over and you're stepping and all that. But that, it's hard for me to, like, be out with time. That's the thing I got to program

into myself is like when you swing, you're out. Yes. You don't like, your hands aren't tight. No. You want, you want a lot of space between

you and the ball. Yeah, so that's something, I mean, obviously when you have impact of boxing, you want to be having space. Keep making excuses. Go on. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, mentally it's hard now because the form of imagine if you're trained to be like in. I know. Life's hard. No, totally. It's just a movement pattern thing. Exactly. And it's something. I used to play hockey, so I can track the ball. Okay. So you have that. You have the athleticism. I'm sure. You think so. I think so okay. Sounds like a pro athlete over here. Yeah. Seriously. But yeah, so that's number one. I mean, the footwork is very, very important. Like, you can focus on hitting the ball as much as you want,

but you have to get to the ball to hit the ball. And so for me, it's like movement. It's a very physical sport. Oh, depends. Are you guys playing singles or doubles? Both. Both. Okay.

So singles is obviously a lot more movement, and so it's really physically hard. But the difference in the close and the far thing is funny because now that I'm playing pickleball as well, pickle ball, you hit things much closer to you. And so I have to like rewire my brain every time I switch from one sport to the other. That tennis, you want a lot of space between you and the ball because you'll get more power.

Yeah, That's what I'm trying to learn that. I can get to the ball better than her. I know that. I can move a little quicker. You know what? If you want to brag about how you're better than you. You know what?

I've been looking for a new coach. Maybe I might, maybe I might consider it. I can get both of you guys on the court and then I can decide who's better. I think that's fair. I think that's fair because I'll judge. Yeah, Lauren,

you know, she has her perspective and I don't want to say it's wrong, but it is. Okay. I want to talk to you about the pressure of being a professional athlete, especially as a woman, woman, I mean, I can imagine that there is a lot of pressure, not even just with winning, just like being on camera. It's just a lot. It seems like a lot of different moving parts. What's that like? So, I mean, I grew up, you know, starting, I technically turned pro when I was 15 years old. Tennis is very young. And so that's when I signed with like an agency and

my first endorsement, like clothing contract. And you kind of act like a mini professional, even at that age before you're like fully on the pro tour. So I'm playing like junior tournaments, but I'm playing junior Wimbled and Junior U.S. Open. And there's a whole tour for like 18 and under before you really go pro. And so my first year on the pro tour would have been 18, 19. But yeah, it's just interesting how you start having to get used to doing things. Like I've done interviews since I was that age. And so I feel quite comfortable in front of a camera and used to being able to handle any question I get thrown at me.

So if you guys have any tough questions, I'll be ready for them. But yeah, it's just, it's interesting because people focus on a lot of other things as well. besides just the tennis, right? So, you know, years ago there was this, I got asked by a reporter to, like, do a twirl to show off my outfit. And then afterwards, there was a lot of outrage because people were like, oh, my God, he wouldn't have asked a male tennis player that.

They're so focused on the looks. How did you feel at the time? So, I mean, at the time, I was like, yeah, I feel like really cute in my outfit. Like, I want to show it off. And I love fashion. I love outfits. I feel like when you know, or if you feel like you look good,

you play well. And so it just showed that there's like a different kind of focus on female athletes than the male athletes. And part of that is like the marketing, the looks and things like that. But at the end of the day, that's also something I've used to my advantage. And I've been able to explore so many opportunities because of that. And so I'm like, I don't think it's such a negative thing. But let me just set the stage. If I was a professional tennis player like you and I had on a really cute outfit and the reporter was like do a twirl,

I would like catwalk down the, like, because it's like gives you a moment to show your look. And I also think, and maybe this is a hot take, that it's, there's so much energy spent on you winning or losing or in or out that it's like fun and light to show your outfit off. Totally. This is what I've said often. And no one wants to see like some guy like do a twirl. Like, you know, like sorry. Right. Men and women are different for a reason, right? I don't know. I don't really want to see Michael do a twirl. I'm good. Well. Do you know what I mean? Right. Now I know that's probably not what everyone thinks.

That's my hot take. Yeah. No, and I've been asked like, oh, like in interviews, you know, sometimes I get all these questions that are totally non-teness related. And then I get asked, oh, my God, are you annoyed by the non-teness questions? I'm like, it's actually more fun for me. Like, how many times are you going to ask me about my forehand, right? Well, I think like, let's talk about other things. Don't worry.

I have questions that are not tennis related. You know, I think it's hard. I've always struggled with the people that are offended for other people who aren't offended. Does that make sense? Right, exactly. Like, I understand certain people have a perspective on the way things should be done. But in that moment, if it was between you and this reporter, and I didn't see it, and you were not offended, and he wasn't trying to be offensive and you enjoyed it. I don't then get the point of everyone else being offended.

Right. Right. It's kind of like me not being at a dinner and then seeing somebody get angry at a dinner. And I just said, I'm then going to be angry at a dinner that I wasn't at. You know what, though? here's what I'll say. If you had just told me right now, I didn't like it. It bothered me. I'd be like, okay, that was unacceptable.

But if you didn't mind, personally me, I wouldn't mind either. So we do this show and we force people to do it in person. And the reason we do that is because when you're doing it on a screen, I can't get this interaction. I can't tell if you're into a line of questioning or if you're like, you know what I mean? You just can't feed. It's just like a screen. And I imagine like it's similar for a lot

of these people doing that work and yourself. if you were somebody that was giving off an energy, like, don't ask me that kind of thing. It likely wouldn't have happened. Does that make sense? Not saying you're asking for it, but meaning like they're kind of like playing off the energy of like, hey, is this okay? If I ask this, is it okay? Will it be received well? Do you get what I'm saying? I totally understand it. Yeah. And the whole, you know, Zoom thing that happened a lot more in the recent years has been such a buzzkill. Like, I personally don't like that.

And I'm very, you know, open and outspoken and love to talk about other things besides just tennis. And I think people know that. And I'm always talking about. fashion and my cute outfits. And, you know, that's what's so fun about tennis is you can wear cute outfits. We don't have to wear the same uniform as like 20 other people in the field. So I'm like, why don't we, it's a way to express ourselves. So why don't we talk about it? I'm fine being asked about it. If you guys like magnesium at night when you're winding down like me, you have to try this specific magnesium blend that I've been drinking at night. It's like a raspberry lemonade flavor. And it's an advanced magnesium powder. It contains 400 milligrams of

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When this all happened and he asked you that and everyone gets mad and everyone's pissed off and outraged, what do you do? Well, my 20-year-old self in the press conference was like, look, I'm fine if you asked me to twirl if he asked the guys to flex their muscles or something. I was like, just give me a little something back, you know? So what does the audience say? Are they mad that you said that? It was like a big deal. I mean, is the audience pissed at you then? They called it twirlgate, learned.

They did, yeah. Okay. I see that on my notes. I remember seeing this on TikTok, but are they mad at you that you're not mad at the reporter? You know, I don't know. I try to not like read too far deep into like comments. I tried to move on from this. I'm trying, yeah, not to. But I do remember the next, actually a month later, I was in L.A.

for some like Oscar, pre-Oscar parties and stuff. And Mark Wahlberg came up to me and he was like, you're the Toralgate girl. And he was like, I got so annoyed that the guy asked you that. And he was like, I just want to like, you know? And I was like, whoa, first of all, this is like, you're really exactly what I thought you would be like in person. All your movie characters are really accurate. And I just thought it was cute that he like wanted to defend me.

And I was like, but it's okay. I was okay with it. You know? But he was like mad on my behalf. You understand? Yeah, he's one of those guys I was talking about earlier. Exactly, exactly. He's exactly one of those. What is the cute tennis outfits that you're wearing?

What are the brands that we need to look at? And I'm asking this question selfishly for myself. Well, I'm only going to give you one answer and one answer only New Balance, because I'm endorsed by them. Are you wearing New Balance right now? No, so this is like a tennis core outfit, but this is like casual. But I have lots of cute new balance outfits. And recently my outfit is like a little crop top with a skirt, which I think is fun and cute. Yes, I've been begging them for crop tops for years, and we finally got one.

And they're really trending right now, too. And we all know the dad shoe has been popular for years from New Balance, but now their clothing is really like catching up. The lifestyle stuff is so cool. The female stuff is really more feminine and cute now, which is important for me. I have a different line of questioning that is more serious line. Him and her. When you go and you get ready for competition and you've been training all this, like,

are there things you do to mentally prepare yourself before you see? step on the court? Are there things like leading up to that? What do you what do you those practices look like? Yeah for sure. Something one of my long time coach taught me was um visualizations. So that's something I would do actually the night before the match and then I would wake up and do it in the morning as well. And then if I had time even kind of right before the match while waiting in the locker room, it's something I would just take a few minutes, close my eyes and imagine how I wanted to play and just you know, positive reinforcement of like playing well, winning, executing the right shot. So that was a big learning curve for me and it really showed me that it's effective and it helps. It's kind of like

doing mental reps without doing physical reps. So that was a huge one. Besides that, I like to listen to music and just really get like pumped up. I got to be like sweating when I get on the core. I want to be warm because I want to be ready to go from the first point. What's the music? Like what kind of? So randomly I like I like Latin music to like get moving, which is super. That makes sense though because you move your hips. Right. Exactly. And I'm like I'm not a great dancer, but I was like, okay, I got to move my body because I need to that's what we do on the court. It's literally my job

and so it's kind of a way to loosen up. That makes sense. What about lifting weights, working out, what are you doing around the tennis or is it just tennis for the workout? No, that's a great question, and it's a lot more than just the tennis. It's like a full day job. We basically

play, I used to play when I was younger two times two hours of tennis a day, which is a lot. Yep. Wait, so four hours. Four hours of tennis. Wow. Yeah. And then Then fitness, which is an hour and a half, and then some kind of like therapy. So it's massage therapy or like a specific like physical therapy for like an injury if I had one. Or even you know those Norma Tech boots, the compression sleeves, all of that stuff, ice bath, all of that's important.

Now as I'm older and most pros will not play four hours a day because it's just too much wear and tear on your body. And we'll do a bit less on the court, but actually more in the gym. The gym is super important. What kind of stuff are you doing in the gym? So a lot of strength because on the tennis court we're running around. So we get that cardio. We get that exercise that way. And it's more like you need to be strong enough to be able to withstand hours of like the repetitive hitting.

Tennis injuries are really more overuse injuries. So you got to make sure your muscles, your ligaments, all that are strong enough to just withstand the thousands of reps you're going to do. And I love lifting. I find it so fun. Like I love feeling strong. How do you, so I was talking to one of these tennis pros that I was working with and he was saying like, it was being nice. He was like, hey, man, like, these are not going to be so great for you.

You don't want these big muscles. Hold on. You are not asking this. You're asking her why you can't play tennis ball because of your big muscles. Well, I'm trying to say it in a way that didn't sound like that. But yeah, that's it. She's getting straight to the point. But he was basically saying, like, tennis players are long and lean and how they're

and so I'm wondering, like, as your strength training, like, what are the things you're doing? Yeah. So when I say strength training, I mean, you know, strength training to be strong, but not to have huge muscles the way you do. That's what I was looking for. Pull that clip, Taylor. Pull that clip. Keep going.

It's really, I mean, look at Djokovic. Okay, the guy is slim. He is small. In person, he's even smaller than he seems like he's on TV. So we need strength, but we also need endurance and flexibility. But for me, like, I'm, you know, a thin girl. Like, I need those muscles. Like, I need a bare minimum of strength.

And so I'm not trying to really bulk up huge, but I'm trying to just be strong enough. So what kind of like, what does the strength training look like? I know I'm just getting nerdy here, but I just. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, look, we'll do like, we'll do like squats. We'll do the dead bar lifts. We'll do, like, I like doing a lot of lower body because I feel like you just need that to be able to move.

A lot of glute hamstring work because that's really like your motor to like run, especially if you've got to run for a drop show. You've got to run forward. You've got to be strong. And is the rep range high or low? It's not, it's like, I would say medium because I want enough weight, right? So if I go too high, I'm not lifting enough weight. So it's kind of medium to low when I'm really trying to like gain strength.

And the reason, because Lauren got into strength training the last three years and she's been really into it and has completely like changed a lot of things for her. But we're trying to play tennis more. And so we're talking about like what is the ideal? Michael thinks I need to work out my hamstrings more. Yeah. So people often focus a lot on the quads, you know, it's easy to do squats and stuff. But you forget about the back, the posterior and you got to really do that a lot. Well, now that you're saying the word hamstring to a tennis, it sounds like that's important. It is, yeah. What is your routine around the morning and the night, especially.

with being such a high performer? What are those things that you go to? Well, morning I would say it's very important for me to get a good breakfast. I know some people, people love doing the fasting or like skip breakfast and stuff like that. I am a huge breakfast person. I cannot function if I like don't have food immediately after I wake up. What are you eating? So I need to eat things with like protein and I definitely need things with like salt. So playing tennis, I sweat a lot. And so I really need to make sure I replace that. If I have only like, I don't know, fruit loops in the morning, I'm going to like go like that. and then I'm going to crash in the middle of practice, and I'm going to, like, not have the energy.

So I need, like, eggs, ideally as much as possible, avocado. Sometimes a breakfast kind of meat, like bacon, sausage. Just, like, protein and salt is what I eat in the morning. Yeah, good. What else? Any other non-negotiables that you have to do in the morning? I try not to look at my phone too much, especially right away when I wake up,

especially when I have a match, because I feel like it's just so, like, opposite to what I'm trying to do that day. You know what I mean? I get distracted. I start filling my brain with like useless information. And even just looking at a screen is like bad for your eyes. It's bad for, you know, I don't know. I feel like it's, I look at a screen, then I go try to play tennis and it's just totally not the same. And so I try to limit screen time. Well, it's interesting because I think Huberman said this, but like to really

work out your eyes, you need to look out long ways. And tennis is so good for that because you're not staring at a screen, which is why another reason I want my kids to play. Because it's taking it away from the screen, away from the TV, and you're looking out. Does that make sense? I had a problem with my eyes, and I talked about it in the show. Oh, my God, he's going to talk. And fortunately, like, we know people like Andrew. And he, one of the most important, one of the things he told me that was most important,

as I was texting with him, and he was like, hey, you have to start tracking things with your eyes in the distance because we get so used to staring at this screen. And I felt like I was actually, he said it's like kind of like a camera retina or like a, you know, a lens, I mean, where it like moves in and out. your eye does the same thing. Yes. If you don't track, which is why I like tennis so much now because I'm tracking a ball back and forth. And I feel like it's like one of the things that's helped improve my sight.

Oh, it's probably like strengthening your eye muscles. I once had a concussion years ago and I had to do eye retraining therapy is what it was called after that to kind of get back to the quick reactions on the court. And I had to do all these exercises for your eyes, which were so fascinating. It was like they put a paper in front of me and then like I had to focus on that and then also focus at like a point in the distance. And it was really, really fascinating. And so I think we should all just do eye training therapy, even if you don't have an issue. And you can just get better at it. Also helps your reaction for tennis, especially at the elite level.

You need that. And yeah, so having a phone here is just totally opposite to everything we're talking about. When I do those eye exercises, I have someone that helps me do them. And it almost makes you feel sick. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. You feel like, not like you're going to throw up, but just like you don't feel normal. Yeah.

I remember once I was facing me with my friend in the morning I'd gone out the night before and I was kind of like hung over and I had to go to my eye retraining therapy and then I was like going to this makes me feel drunk on its own

and now I'm going and I'm a hungover like I'm going to not survive like it almost makes you feel a bit nauseous because you're really like working your eye muscles and like looking at different things and yeah so fascinating. Our friend Doc Amin was on the show

and he was saying people that play rocket sports is like correlated for you know less instances of dementia and longevity and all these things. But as you're talking, it's making me think, like, if you're doing that kind of tracking in your eyes part of your brain, you know, it has to be,

it has to have benefits as opposed to just staring at a screen all day. No, they said tennis, people who play tennis live the longest. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That makes actually so much sense. We're going to be number one. Do you have anything that you do

post tennis at night to wind down? Like, what are your non-negotiables? Well, I love, like, getting some kind of bodywork. So whether that's a massage or physical therapy. Yeah. It's, and when I say massage, we're not talking a nice fun, like spa, like retreat, massage.

Like rolhing? We're talking with what? Like rolhing where they like go at you. Oh, like hard. Like elbow into, you know, but hamstrings, back. Like it's painful. And that's what I feel like I need to loosen up because we train our muscles so hard. They get so tight that like just like softly massaging is not going to get you anywhere.

You need like it needs to hurt for it to have a benefit. And so I need to do that as much as possible. How do you combat failure? This is a topic that comes up on this show a lot when someone, you know, failures and micro failures and coming back after feeling. Like, what do you do when you take a loss or you feel like you've failed? Looking back, look, I think I've certainly taken losses too hard at times. And that's something I would say I have a little bit of a regret over. Like, I don't have to, you know, stay hold up in my hotel room for two days after losing a match.

And sometimes I would like literally do that. And my mom's like, what are you doing? Like, it's just a tennis match. Stop it. And I just, I have, because of the perfectionism thing, you know, I want to do so well. And if I make mistakes, it's just so hard for me to accept that. So I think learning to accept the losses, not being so perfect, is one thing. But the next thing I would say is just, you know, I feel like sometimes success actually masks problems.

And so sometimes failures are just so good to see what you can improve. And I've had, you know, successes and I've had failures throughout my career. And sometimes there were problems even during the successes, but you don't even look at it or think about it because you're like, oh, well, I won this tournament. I'm winning these matches, everything's fine. It's like, wait, no, there's a serious, like, issue with a technique in your forehand or my trainer is not, like, training me the right way. But, like, just because I'm winning, you don't really address things. And so I've actually learned to kind of appreciate failures because it shows me what I need to do better. When you look back on everything you've done, where is a moment where you were, like, where you felt like it was a big challenge and maybe you could be really specific with what that challenge was?

Just in general in my tennis career. It doesn't even have to be tennis. Just a challenge that you had. And whether it's like to me when I'm hearing you talk about all these trainers, like, what do you do when you outgrow the trainer? Like I'm sure that's a whole thing. And you have, I mean, right? There'd be trainers that are training you that you almost have to like scale a business, scale what you're doing. Yeah. Tennis is a really unique sport because you're kind of the CEO of your company. Right. So like I hire and fire everyone I work with. I'm not like going on a team where, the team owner has, you know, the coach in place and the trainer in place. It's like, it's for me. So it's, it's hard actually dealing with, with humans, right? Isn't that one of the hardest things in all jobs and works of life? And I feel like it's especially a unique relationship when I'm like a 20-year-old female and I'm hiring a 50-year-old male who's a coach. And I hire him to tell me what to do, but then ultimately I'm, I'm the boss because I could, you know, stop working with him. So it's a really weird dynamic. Weird dynamic.

And sometimes, you know, like an older coach who thinks he knows more, like will, you know, not, we'll try to decide everything for the player. And then, but it's like at the end of the day, it's an individual sport. I decide what I do. So as the player, I can decide to work with you or not. And I've definitely had, like, issues with coaches who, like, have egos or don't want to be told what to do or don't want to, like, let me have a say. It's like, no, we're doing this for training at this time and you don't get a say,

well, you know, I'm the player. Like, I don't want to, if I play all my matches at 7 p.m. at night, why are you trying to make me go train at 7 in the morning? Like, I need to, you know. So they'll say come train at 7 a.m. but you play at 7 at night. And you're like, no, I need to be playing at 7 at night. Right. So I want to sleep in the morning and, like, get used to their kids. So what do you do? Do you have to fire them yourself?

I mean, yeah, it's really hard to do. I have like an agent or like when I was younger. My parents, my mom was more involved, like helping me. Like, you know, you're a kid. We're a kid who doesn't know anything who's undereducated. We didn't go to college, and we're like trying to basically run this company. Wild. It takes a village.

I mean, it has to take a village. What's something that would surprise our audience? And again, this doesn't have to be tennis related. Just surprise our audience about your day-to-day. Something that I think is super weird in the tennis world is the fact that we all, like, share a locker room. So it's like, I'm about to play against you, and we have lockers right next to each other. and you go to take a shower and I literally just saw you naked

and then 10 minutes later we're walking out on court, on center court. Are people nice when you're doing that? Are they like higher people like different every time? It depends. You need every single time after you do a match, you should record into like a recorder of what it was like

and then you could just do like a book called like the locker room. Locker room chats, yeah. No, it's an interesting experience because again, team sports, they have one team has a locker room, the other team has a locker room. And so in your locker room, you can kind of like let your hair down and relax because it's your teammates. In tennis, it's like you have to have your wall up all the time because you're going into the locker room.

It's full of all your opponents. And so you're not chatting at a break. You're not like, hey, like, this is going well or not. You just kind of like segregate yourself. I think it depends on who it is. Yeah, it depends on the situation. It depends on who it is. So some girls are like friendly with each other.

Some are less friendly. Well, how do you act? Do you like conserve your energy or are you kind? Like, what's your vibe? So I'm, and I've actually said this and some people have not like that. I said this, but I've been a little bit more like not trying to make friends as much on tour just because I'm, you know, playing against them and I find it hard mentally and emotionally to like be really good friends with you. And then I get on the court and I'm trying to like kick your

butt. You know, to me, it, my brain is like, that doesn't work. I get that. And I also think you only have so much. This is like to give. And you're, you have to give a hundred percent to the game. So to then make friends with someone is like almost giving up a little bit of your capacity. And also, if you get like in the dynamic of one wins, one's loses, like you're about to go crush someone's dream. You can't be like, you can't like in a way feel so bad about that. Correct. Exactly. That's what I always said. I don't want to look across the net and like feel almost like guilt or something because I'm playing my friend. And if I happen to be winning that day, then it's like, oh my God. Of course, you know, I'm friendly with some of the girls. And I'm Canadian. So like the Canadian girls or the Americans are the ones. A lot of them don't even speak English.

First of all. So like the ones who speak English I'm more friendly with. And then, you know, it's like more like the Spanish and South Americans hang out. out and like the Eastern Europeans and the Russians hang out. So it's a little culty. It's a little bit like mean girls at school. It sounds a little sorority. A little bit. Yeah. That's wild that there's all these different dynamics even with tennis. I don't think you'd like that dynamic. I don't know. What do you mean? I don't think you'd like to, I don't think you want to like deal with all that. No, I would be like you. I'd be like you. I'm there to play the game. That's I'm, I go in with my briefcase and I leave with my briefcase. I'm there to play the game. I like her. Yeah, you got, I go in with my tennis racket and I'm, I leave with my tennis racket. Like I just think like,

like you're there to do a job. Exactly. Can you like, can you like talk shit in the locker? Like, yo. No, why talk shit? That's going to waste your capacity though. That's what I'm saying. You want to be indifferent.

I would be indifferent. That's the way that I would describe it. Well, because I think it was someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger and he wasn't like mean talking shit. But in his world of bodybuilding, he was like, he would like, people would be like, oh, I've been training really hard. I know you have. But so if I, by the time you catch up, I'm like already still so far ahead.

He would like fuck with people. He would like. He was like a mental thing for him too. This is a weird question. but are you reading books like Art of War and like things about opponents or is it, are you just primarily focused on the game of tennis? It's both. So we're obviously focused on the strategy and like before I play a match, my coach will like have

researched the girl and tell me, okay, this is generally what her strengths are, weaknesses, things like that. But I've read books that have just helped me mentally because for me, you know, obviously you play an opponent, but I play my best when I focus on myself. And so sometimes it doesn't even matter who I'm playing. Like, I just got to play my game and be in the right mindset. And for me, that's not focusing on winning. So it's really being in the moment and taking it.

It's very cliche, but we say one point out of time in tennis. And that has helped me a lot. So a book I've read actually many times, sometimes I finish reading it, and then I open it and start reading again is the power of now. And it's just helped me, like, stay so much more present. Because being worried about the outcome doesn't help you achieve the outcome more. It actually helps you achieve it less. I have been a fan of this brand since, gosh, I want to say like middle school origins.

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Of course, we have an incredible offer for you. Get your free element sample pack with any purchase at drink element. slash skinny. Also try the new element sparkling a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water. Again, that's drink element.com slash skinny. What kind of traits mentally do you think an individual needs to have to compete at the level you compete at? And what I mean by that is, are there things that you recognize across the board in your competition and yourself that you think you need to have? And if you, maybe if you don't have it, you just should maybe think about doing something else? The number one thing that stands out to me is the capacity to deal with pain, especially,

and I mean physical pain. Like, we push ourselves through training every single day, and it is brutal. And actually, another book I read that I liked was the David Gaggin's book. And he in there wrote, schedule suffering in your day. And that kind of helped me accept the fact that I have to suffer to do my job. And, you know, it takes a strong person to be able to do that. And so I look at all my fellow tennis players and I'm like, yep, we all have accepted the fact that, like, we have to go through physical pain almost every single day. Do you find it hard to relate to girls your own age who aren't doing some kind of competitive sport? I would find that, and just from my own life, sometimes it's hard for me as an entrepreneur to relate sometimes to people who aren't. And

that's being really honest, women who aren't. It's sometimes hard to relate. Do you find that? So I find, yeah, someone who is maybe not as ambitious. I think that's the biggest, like, quality is like, are they even if no matter where they are at their stage of life if they're trying to achieve more accomplish more that's like something I can really relate to so if it's more if they don't have that drive whether they've accomplished it or not already is a little bit irrelevant it's more about like the values and like the character trait if they have that ambition that makes total sense I totally get what you're saying it's like you it sounds like you want to be around people who are constantly progressing yes I think it's really honest to say it might not make people feel

great, but for me, and I think for Lauren, probably for you, it's like, if I'm going to spend energy and time with people, I'm not looking for somebody who's just kind of floating by. Like, I want somebody, to your point, it doesn't have to be like they've got the thing or they're like, I'm looking for someone who's pushing life. I think the word too is maybe intentional, but with the ambition. I think the word is ambitious. I think like you have to be like pursuing something great in life. And I was, you know, we had the pleasure I did this week.

I got to spend time with a former Navy SEAL. And then I got a tour that SEAL Team 3 operates out of. It was really cool. And I got to go through and see all the men that have like in women of a sacrifice there. It's mostly men actually in SEALT. But anyways, that have sacrificed there.

And like the common theme there is like they're like, there's great and there's exceptional. And like sometimes great is not enough. And I like, and you were sitting there. Like it's really humbling to go and sit with those kind of people. But to me like it's inspiring to see that kind of thing. And it's very interesting.

Like those are the kind of people. I want to be surrounded by. Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, I'm such a workhorse, and I truly enjoy working hard and pushing myself through pain. So to see people that do it on an insane other level is so fascinating. And David Goggins was one and talks about it bit in his book as well. So that's, I love that. But lucky you.

Well, this guy was even like he writes his three kids. I'm not going to say who it is, but he has, and he, like, writes letters to them. And he says, like, hey, you know, not only do you need to be great, but like, you need to go beyond great. And it's like the way he talks. And I just think he's, you know, I've heard his sons are like exceptional human beings. And it's just, I just think it's important because you, we live in a time where many people, I think, phone it in. And it's like, okay to phone it in. It's like, okay to just sit within yourself and like, you know, not pursue that kind of stuff. And I don't know, people could do what they want, but I personally don't find it that interesting. How do you think about your time? Meaning, like, how do you decide what comes around you besides tennis? Like, how did you be like, okay, I want to come on this podcast today. I'm sure you have to be very cutthroat with your time. How do you pick and choose? I do. It's tough. Yeah, as soon as we're done, I'm getting on a flight and getting out of here. So it is hard. And it's a big balancing act. This year, I've started doing pickleball events as well. So it's weird because I feel like I have multiple jobs, you know, and I've never really

felt that before because it's always been tennis my whole life. And so with the different schedule that pickle ball has afforded me, I've been able to do more off-court stuff. So, one of the things I love doing, I've done some of, some broadcasting, like TV stuff, like the tennis commentary, things like that, and, you know, other off court, you know, whether it's appearances or endorsements. And I've really enjoyed kind of expanding outside of tennis. And but I've actually happened to in the last couple of months really like worked a lot. And I forgot that like, I actually need to schedule time off because I'm like, okay, I have, okay, this opportunity came up. Oh, I have those two days off. I can go do it. And then I'm like, wait, at one point, I do have to say no and I do have to have

like a work-life balance. My therapist told me the other day, he was like, I wasn't able to speak to you for like an entire month. Like, if I can only speak to you for one hour a month, then how are you even able to like go on a date? And I was like, yeah, you're right. I haven't been. He was like, you need to have a life balance. I was like, okay. What kind of dates are you going on? What is a guy need to do? What is someone's listening? Um, well, so, you know. Do you know? Play a sport? No, not necessarily. They don't. They don't have to play a sport. No. Okay. I mean, I've dated athletes in the past, but they don't have to be an athlete, but I think that word ambitious is important. So no matter what they're doing, what kind of career that they're just doing something and really trying to achieve something that I can really relate to. And having the discipline to wake up every day and work hard is something I can really relate to. Taylor, you're out because sometimes you don't wake up until two on the weekend. Do they have to be famous? No. But hey, every once in a while, when I do get a rare day off, I'm okay with sleeping until two as well. don't think there's anything wrong with that. You're allowed to sleep in tell two. You're,

you're, we'll give you that. We'll give you that. Before you go, you have to tell our audience, skincare, beauty, any like health, wellnessy tips that you have. What are your hacks? Your brows look great. Tell us what you're using on them. Like, give us a little secret. Um, I just quickly did Anastasia earlier today at my hotel before coming over here. Um, but, you know, the number one thing is sleep. Number one by far is sleep. My family were all big sleepers. Like I said about sleeping in, I could sleep like 10 hours every single night. Taylor, you might have a chance. I'm telling you that's my favorite thing to do.

Big, I think people who sleep longer, live longer, and people who say like, oh, I'll sleep when I die. Like, I don't buy into that. We agree. We just had Matthew Walker on this show. Actually, the episode's out today. And we just all about sleep. Oh my gosh.

I'm going to listen to it on my flight. He's great. He's great. Go ahead. I want to hear her secrets, Michael. Okay. I have to contribute something. I don't know if I contribute to the eyebrows.

Although my eyebrows are not brat. They're not. Stasia, did my eyebrows on this show, remember that Lord? Yeah. Did she really? Michael, can we get her beauty tips? The eyebrows, the muscles, the tattoos. I like to weave myself in.

We know. We don't say. I like to thread myself right into the storyline. The next one for me, because I'm always in the sun, is suncare, is sunscreen. Like, it is just so important. I've been obsessed with sunscreen since I was, like, a kid because I knew that I've, you know, back in the day, we didn't realize how important sunscreen was. And we, I've seen like older players, like legends of the game who have talked about the fact that they're like, oh my God, we didn't know we had to like wear sunscreen all the time. And you can just tell. And it's like it prematurely ages you. And besides obviously like, you know, cancer risk and things like that. So I'm like really obsessed with sunscreen. I used to use more of the bad kind where it's like has all the chemicals that like absorbs into your skin. And now I'm like fully zinc. And I will walk out on court with my face zinced out. And I don't care what I look like because I am trying.

to preserve my youth or what's left of it. You know what? Can you just wear one of those masks? I sometimes wear them when I'm skiing. Like they have the two eyes. You could just walk out. I know. That's what she wears skiing.

Should I start a trend in tennis? And then it'll really like show how important taking care of your skin is. And I feel like we could start like a revolution and just help avoid so many people who have maybe. I actually had that question for you. I was going to because every time I play tennis, I'm like a psycho. You know what I got that like it. really works that you and New Balance should do together. I went on Amazon and ordered like vintage bodyguard rash guards. So when I can just throw it over and like it's fine for sweating,

but they go all the way down past your hands. And you can wear them swimming, you can wear them playing tennis, but they're like a rash guard so they protect you from the sun. Yeah. If I was playing tennis, I would come out in a hazmat suit. Right. As much as you. Then that defeats the purpose of like wearing cute outfits. That's true. Oh, see, I have. I don't know. Yeah, that's hard. How do you, how do you do both? I don't know. I'm going to give you driving gloves. I wear sometimes a long sleep shirt because, you know, yeah, but it's different. Like I feel like you, like you said, you have to walk out in full sunscreen. It's different for a girl. Don't, you can't insert yourself in the sunscreen on. I put on my neck, put on my face.

Okay. That's very important. Any other beauty tips that you have that we need to know. Well, so then, I mean, the next thing is just, I mean, just moisturizing a lot for me. I just want to like feel like my skin is just like not dry. I travel so much. It dries you out. Sometimes we're in crazy locations where it's like super dry. And so that would be it. I have not, I historically was not really much of like skincare routine girl or even like makeup girl because I spend my life chain to a tennis court and I never had time to like be a normal girl and like explore all of these worlds. As I've gotten older and cared about turning 30 and not, you know, trying to avoid wrinkles. I've been more into it now.

But, you know, I feel like my skin does the best, literally when I sleep, when I drink water, and when I put sunscreen on. I love it. You're amazing. I love it. Himp yourself out. Yeah, no. So I'm playing on the pickleball tour this year, the PPA.

I'm going to Vegas this afternoon to play a tournament starting tomorrow at the Fontainebleau. So that's fun. And, yeah, just playing tennis as well. And on TV, hopefully, doing some tennis channel commentary for you guys. You know what I'm excited for with you? You're, I feel like at some point, you have to. to launch your own whole tennis line. I'd wear it. You would? Yeah. We'll have like little crop tops. We'll have like cutouts. We'll have cute stuff. And then when you want to train. So this is what I do.

For a match, I wear the cute outfit. But then during training, I'll wear the long sleeve. Yes. Training, if no one's watching me and it's just tedious hours upon hours, it doesn't matter. But then for the match, of course, you want to be cute. So you got to have both. And make a rash guard in white. Question. For the train. If you're trying to learn tennis, it's just selfish. You probably shouldn't do the pickleball stuff, right? Or am I wrong? I am in both worlds. So I think, first of all, we can all be friends because some people, you know, tennis, people hate pickle and it's a little, that's a little contentious.

And I'm trying to be some like neutral middle ground of like, hey, we can all work. Because we can help each other. Someone starts in pickleball, hey, they might transfer over to tennis. And people in tennis are playing pickleball now. So I think it's great. But I'm saying selfishly just to take. Yes, the technique is different. So it might screw me up if I try to learn pickle and tennis.

Yes. So I've literally switched back and forth this year, like when I have tennis coming up. I train tennis and play tennis. Then, boom, I have a pickleball tournament, so I go to pickleball. Pickleball, you hit the ball closer. It's less like full swings, and then the dinks and the drops are what's so different than tennis. Like, you want to hit those short, soft balls. And in tennis, that's a terrible shot, right?

So it's a totally different skill set. People thought I would be so good right away at pickleball, and I wasn't at all because it's very different. But you have to give yourself time to, like, change back and forth. So it's been tough for me this year because I'm like, oh, my God, I've like have so much on my plate now that I'm literally playing two professional sports that seem similar but are actually quite different. Every time I go back to tennis after playing pickleball, I'm like trying to hit the ball here,

way too close to my body. The one thing that doesn't get messed up is the serve because there's no overhead serve in pickleball. So at least every time I go back to tennis, I'm like, okay, my serve is still there. But I need some days to like get my forehand and like backhand back. Taylor's literally Googling how to play pickleball for beginners. I got to step my tennis game up, Lauren.

I can't. Yeah, we've got that. Thank you so much for coming up. the show. You're incredible. Thank you for having me. Thank you. You make it the trip. Thank you. You're great on a mic. If you want fuller brows and longer lashes, you have to check out the product that we just dropped at shop skinny confidential.com. It is the brow peptide. I'm so excited about this. It's organic, cold pressed castor oil with a peptide in it. It's all natural, non-toxic and clean. I have been using this product for six months and I am blown away.

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