The Bossticks - Heather Rae & Tarek El Moussa - Flip or Flop, Selling Sunset, & How To Create A Happy Life

Episode Date: April 1, 2024

#680:  Today, we're sitting down with Heather Rae and Tarek El Moussa. Heather Rae El Moussa is a top real estate agent for The Oppenheim Group, known for selling luxurious million-dollar properties to affluent buyers in Los Angeles. She also stars in the popular Netflix series Selling Sunset. Tarek El Moussa was previously the co-host of the HGTV hit series Flip or Flop. With their latest show, The Slipping El Moussas, the couple joins us today for a raw conversation about their love story, the real estate industry, and all things related to living a happy life. We dive into everything from things to look out for in a house you want to flip, to why you should live every day like it's your last.   To connect with Heather Rae El Moussa click HERE To connect with Tarek El Moussa click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Toups & Co Visit www.toupsandco.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off your first order This episode is brought to you by Kerastase Visit Kerastase-USA.com and use code SKINNY15 to receive 15% off your purchase. Offer valid through 5/31/2024. This episode is brought to you by Ritual Start a daily ritual that you can feel good about. Visit ritual.com/SKINNY to receive 25% off your first month of Ritual. This episode is brought to you by Vanderpump Villa Watch new episodes of Vanderpump Villa every Monday, now on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by Clean Simple Eats Clean Simple Eats protein powder is non-GMO, gluten-free, 3rd party tested, always grass-fed and made with zero artificial ingredients. You can get 10% off your first order by using code SKINNY10 at checkout at cleansimpleeats.com. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with fresh food. Get 50% off your first box & free shipping by going to thefarmersdog.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Aha. America followed our journey. Like, Flip or Flop became the number one show on TV. Like, we were beating NBA playoffs. It was wild. And I mean, there'd be days I came home to him, like, crying from the stress of everything. And then you film it, you go through it. It's your real life.

And then the show comes out. You have to watch it and then deal with all the stress again. And then you have to hear from all the fans. And you get attacked for, you know, almost everything you do. Because the fans are so vocal and on social media. And so it's like you're going through the stress and you're filming. And then you get a little break. And then it comes out and you go through it again.

Tarek Al Musa and Heather Ray Almousa are on the show today. This episode is like an octopus. We literally go everywhere. There's tentacles everywhere. We talk about real estate. We talk about reality television, wellness, skin care, fitness, relationships, marriage. They have been in the public, both of them, separately and together for so long. And I think it's a really cool thing to see behind the scenes in this episode.

You may recognize Heather from the popular Netflix series, Selling Sunset. and I'm sure you recognize Tarek from the HDTV hit series Flip or Flop. And together they have a show The Flipping Al Muses. I learned a lot about real estate in this episode and I think you will too. But you'll also just learn about them as a couple together from a real perspective. With that, Tarek and Heather, welcome to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. We are doing a him and her

on a trifecta. We're having a foursome. We're doing him and her foursome. Another foursome. Another foursome. We're so happy to have you guys. We wanted to interview you both together. And I feel like there's a lot of parallels in your story. So let's just first start out. Maybe we'll start with Heather. Talk to us about how you got into real estate. Because I know that you've like, I've seen you, I feel like everywhere, even before I saw you on selling sunset. Well, that's good. Yeah. Maybe from. modeling. I did some modeling. I did some acting. And it was kind of just an easier transition for me. Like, what was the next step for me? I was sick of being in that. It was auditions all the time. I would be in like five to ten auditions a day. And sometimes you don't, most of the time you don't make it. And you're told, you know, you're too fat. You're not right. You're this, you're that. So it was a lot of, like, negativity. So like, what am I going to do next? And someone in my life told me, like, why don't you get into real estate? You have a good personality or bubbly. Like, I feel like you do well with it. You know, I'll get you a mentor.

And I, and that's how I transitioned. And then I moved from Manhattan Beach up to Los Angeles, met Jason Oppenheim, and then I got in the Oppenheim group. Wait, so I have a question about this. What do you mean you met him? You go into his office to, like, interview? It's it natural? Is it for the show? No, it wasn't for the show.

The show wasn't even thought of at that point. Got it. So we were already all in office. I was already doing real estate. So I brought some clients to a listing up in Los Angeles. I think it was like a $6, $7 million listing. And Jason was a listing. agent. He was the broker on it. He saw like, oh, wow, young girl. She brought in, like,

high-end clients. And he actually called me up and said, will you come to my office and meet with me? And then he was like, will you join the Oppenheim group? And I was looking to transition from Manhattan Beach up to L.A. And it was like the perfect fit for me. And then I'd say probably about two years later is when the show actually started. Do you think being in auditions and being told no and being told you're to this, you're to that, you're to, like set you up for a really successful career in real estate because you did have that resiliency. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I think it was just that natural transition.

Like it was a, it's kind of like the same type of industry. And, you know, real estate is really tough. You have to deal with a lot of negativity as well. And I think being a young woman in real estate, not so much anymore, but back, you know, seven, eight, ten years ago, it was a lot harder. A lot of men in the industry would just say, oh, you're young, you're pretty. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what you're saying.

And, you know, you just have to come in with your, facts and prove them different. I'm going to guess that you have a different story of how you got into real estate. Much different. Yeah, what's your story? Have you always been such an entrepreneur from a young age? Yeah, so 100% entrepreneur from a young age. I mean, I remember being five years old, going door to door, trying to sell things to my neighbors. I started my first company at 15. It was a clothing company. I went to the courthouse, filed the paperwork, printed like 500 shirts with my life savings, and then turned out, I filed it wrong, and someone already had the company name. So I think those shirts are still at my mom's house.

Getting into real estate. And you sold knives. Wait, the knives. Cutco. Yeah. That's entrepreneurial. Oh, yeah. People used to crush at Cutco. I mean, we probably still do, right? I bet you were the top. I was one of the top in the country, but that's what led me to real estate because I was one of the top salespeople in the country slinging knives.

You know, I was like a drug dealer, but instead of drugs, I had knives. And I lost my lead book one day. So like every client, every lead, everything I was working on was gone. And I wasn't going to start over my, you know, rebuild my knife business. And I was at this Washington Mutual ATM and Cerritos. And I'm looking at the account. It's not looking good. And I had one of those moments. I was like, shit, what am I going to do? And I looked to the right. And there was this crooked sign that said, wise old owl, real estate school. So I had what I like to call a defining moment, which is a moment in your life that

changes the trajectory of your life. So I thought to myself, I was like, well, I can sell knives. I could probably sell houses. And that's how I got into real estate. I walked across the parking lot and signed up. So if someone's looking to get into real estate the way that both of you did, what are some tips that they could apply immediately? Like, let's say they want to start today. Go online, sign up for a course, and start working on your license. Step one. Yeah, you have to take the courses. They're boring. They take time. The test is awful, but that's your first step. You have to get that done. What do you have to have? What's the recipe? Like, you guys have been around the block? What's the formulaic recipe? Like, is it talent? Is it beauty? Is it one thing.

There is one thing that's needed. Drive. Drive and confident. I've seen people show up to real estate office looking half homeless, never sold in their life, barely speaking English, but they had to put their kid through college. And they became the number one agent. Like mothers, probably single mothers are probably like hustlers. I'm talking about people you would never think. And then you'll see someone with a master's degree coming in an Armani suit and they can't sell a house that their life depended on it because they don't have the hustle.

And you said confidence. Confidence. Yeah, because in the beginning, you know, you don't really know what you're doing. And for me, it was working with a mentor. Like, that really helped me because, you know, you don't know how to do the paperwork. You don't know what you're doing. But I, you know, showed up at every listing appointment. Like, I was there at the house all the time. My first listing was $7 million listing and my second was one and a half million dollar listing, which is really rare in the beginning. And I didn't know what I was doing. Very. Yeah, very rare. So I didn't know what I was doing. But I showed up every day. I drove to the appointments. I was there all the time. And I sold the house, both of them, within three months. And they had been on the market for almost a year. Well, think about it. I mean, if you're on the other side and you're the owner of that property, who do you want? The person that's kind of like half-assing it or the person that you know is just going to break their back for you to get your house sold at the best price.

And the way I got that listing is, was the confidence. I said, you know what? It hasn't sold in almost a year. Why don't you let me try? And I was brand new. That was my first time. And he's like, okay. And I did it within three months.

I'm sure if I asked that question, it would have been a big, big no. It probably didn't help that, you know, I mean, I just put my sweet voice on and said, why don't I try? So her first sale was a $7 million house. I think my first sale was a $50,000 condo in Rialto. And I think I made a negative $200 after paying all the fees and paying for the guests. Is there fees? Because when you watch the show selling Sunset of someone who doesn't know a lot about real estate, me, and you see a $50 million house that they're selling. say like whatever commission. You guys can probably do it quick. I'm just going to make it up. $500,000. Yeah. With that $500,000, is there a lot of fees that are paid out that people don't understand? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, it depends on the volume of the agent, but typically, you know,

anywhere between, you know, 20 to 40 percent of that is gone in fees and to the brokerage and then the agent keeps the remainder. Damn. I mean, it's still like good money. It's still amazing, but it's just crazy how much they take. And it takes a long time just sometimes sell a house of that You know, it's not like, oh, within three days, it's sold and you make the money. Like, sometimes it can take, I've shown clients homes for, I mean, I showed the Dubros, Heather and Terry Dubrow. How many months? Eight months, seven months.

I showed them properties. And finally, we found one. And the next process is like four months, you know, so it takes a long time. Is this their new condo or their huge house that they had in Orange County? No, their new condo up here in Los Angeles. That looks beautiful. I have a big housewife. Yes.

It's gorgeous. And they negotiated one heck of a deal. Props to them. They did a great job. What makes a good negotiator? Saying no. Yeah. Be able to walk away.

Being able to walk away. That's what it was with this one. Yeah. 100%. Why did, and I want to hear both of your stories separately because they are separate, did you guys decide to do television? Oh. Well, yours is, yeah.

Also very different. Well, mine was just totally random. I'll just, the fast version is I was at a real estate convention of 5,000 people. Somehow I got invited to sit in the front row because seats opened up. At the break, I met a guy who was on stage talking about how he made a million bucks a year, told me he had a local TV show. And then I said, TV, wow, that's interesting. And I couldn't stop thinking about it.

And then I said, I want to get a TV show. So I just jumped on Google. You want to make money. Yeah. So I wanted to get on TV to build a brand to make money. So I came into TV as an entrepreneur. So I was like, well, if I can get on TV, people are going to know me, and then I'm going to make more money.

It was marketing. It was marketing. So I literally went on Google and I typed Hollywood production companies. they came up and one by one I just sent, hey, my name's Tark, I want to flip houses, call me. What year was this? 2010. Okay. So it was still early enough when TV looked a little bit different in some ways.

Yeah. Because I have tuned in a few times to the show that you were on. And I'm sure there's marketing, but there's also a lot of other stuff that you are forced to deal with. We've had Christine on the show. We've talked about a little bit. Oh, my favorite person. Which we could talk about. Hi, Christine.

And no, Lauren and I was like, we have seen doing what we do some of these opportunities over the years. And I'm like, I am not equipped to do. I like this environment. I control it. I do what I want. I say what I want. There's nobody telling me anything. I don't have to get permission.

We own the company that produces. I don't have to, you know, it's like it's our. I don't have to think about it. Depends on the show. You kind of sign your life away on reality TV. Depends on the show. At this point, I'm like, why? Right.

But I can also understand. But I don't know if I personally would be able to hand. handle all of the stuff that you guys are forced to handle. I think you're talking about two different shows, too. I feel like yours is, I don't know that you would tune into yours for drama. Yours was more business focus. It's like house drama. We're like, oh no, oh shit, the plumbing broke. Oh no, we got a squatter. It's not like the production company trying to like, you know, pin us against each other and ruin our life. Nobody's screaming your bad father if the pipe broke. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What are the pros and cons when when you look back on how you first got into TV? Like, what did you take away from it?

that you really liked and what were you like, I fucking hate this. At the beginning? At the beginning or middle or end? Oh, I mean, at the beginning, I mean, I like the fact that, you know, I made it happen, got a TV show. That's impressive how you, I've never heard of anyone. You're very entrepreneurial.

I mean, that is like next level shit. Every thing. Giving Gary B. Yeah, yeah. Every single thing I've done it, it comes from, I call outbound prospecting. Like, I pick up the phone and I'll ask the question. Like, every single thing I have in my life is not from waiting. It's from going out there and doing.

The cons were, you know, you're literally on camera all day. So like when are you going to work on the houses, when are you going to work on the business? But here's the craziest part about my story is I pitched getting a house flipping TV show before I ever flipped a house. So then I got a contract to do 13 houses in 10 months and I had two problems. I didn't have money and I didn't know how to flip houses. So I literally taught myself how to do it and raise the money while filming a TV show. my first year on TV. So it was a wild year. I didn't sleep. Like I worked 20 hour days. As a tangent, because I think there's a lot of people listening that think about flipping houses,

or maybe they're in a house that they want to then upgrade. What are the like maybe two or three key things that people need to keep in mind if they're going to consider either flipping the house they're in or thinking about getting into the flipping business? Yeah, I mean, honestly, like flipping is not that difficult. There's four steps. Step one, you got to find it. Step two, you got to fund it. Step three, you got to fix it. Step four, you got to flip it, right? So what are the mistakes, I guess, that people make most commonly when they're trying to trying to flip something successfully. Two mistakes. Very easy to fix. People did that. Their life would change. Mistake number one, they need to learn what to pay for these houses. So that's what I teach

at my program called homeschooled with TARC. I teach people how to analyze properties, how to flip properties. And then the second thing is they choose the wrong contractors. And that is one of the biggest mistake. That is the biggest mistake behind paying too much for the house. Because if you have the wrong team in place, a house that should take you eight weeks is going to take you eight months. How do you find the right contractor? Research. So you don't call a custom build. you don't call the kitchen and bathroom guy, right? You want to find out who is the contractor that's been working in this market for 10 years that has worked on a thousand flips.

Yeah, my buddy came. I'm going to say who my lawyer knows what. My buddy came and was like, hey, I found a flipper we're going to do. And we're out in Texas. This thing was like, I'm like, this ain't a flipper. Like you got to tear this whole fucking thing down. There's like black mold. I was like, I don't even know anything about it.

We're going to maybe improve some of the fixtures. We're going to like, we're not tearing down the whole thing and running a construction site. Like, we don't have time for that. Probably not for your first flip either. That would be challenging. This thing I looked, I think someone died in this house. I'm like, you gotta get the bad juju out of here.

You gotta tear the whole thing down. Be bad jujuju. Yeah. But anyways, like I looked at it at the time and I was like, this is not going to be an eight-wheat process and this is going to be way more expensive. And it's basically like we have to build a whole new house. It was like out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And that's what happens. And people lose their asses because one, they pay too much. They underestimate the rehab and then they choose the wrong contractor. It's like the perfect recipe for the perfect store. Like impossible. You make it really digestible. Like, sometimes I feel like to me, real estate is not my brain language, but you make it, like, I understand.

Yeah, because honestly, it is simple. And like, that's why I'm so passionate about it. Like, I went from delivering pizza to selling houses to flipping houses on TV. Like, that's my story, right? And the house flipping is there's two ways to find a house to flip. One, you talk to people that own houses. Two, you talk to people that sell houses. Yeah. That's it. If you talk to, if you asked 50 people a day, if they knew anyone that's looking to sell a house, you're going to get leads and you're going to be a house flipper. You're not allowed to do one fucking thing with flipping a house until you talk to him. So you're going to have to ask a couple questions because I'm not getting some black-rolled tear down. Here's why, and I actually have flipped a house before, but here's why I... Before me. Here's why, for me, I think that there's also some people that think that they can just passively do a lot of this. And for everything that we're doing right now, I'm like, it has to be such a great opportunity that that opportunity is going to replace some of the other stuff we're doing. and I'm also of the mind I cannot just trust some random contractor

or some random person to do this for me like if I can't actually be focused on it I don't even want to think about it 100%. You know what I mean? Like you can't I don't think any, by the way I don't believe in quote unquote passive income. I think a lot of people like how do I get passive income? It's like passive income comes from being very very

active in stuff prior. Yeah so like this is what I tell people I mean the reason like we flip houses is to make money to buy more real estate. So there is passive investing through the syndications that we're doing but I know what you're talking about. Like if you're hands on in real estate, there is nothing passive about it.

Now, if you invest with like a syndication like my company, TEM capital or Heather's HM Capital, then it truly is passive where our partners are relying on us to go out there, find the deals, do the work, and get the job done. And of course, they're part of the owner, so they get part of the upside. Because you guys are the GPs then. Yeah. Okay, for people that are just listening and wondering what a syndicate is, that maybe they're unfamiliar with real estate.

Can you explain just quickly what a real estate syndicate? is. Yeah, absolutely. All it is is we pool investor money together to go buy commercial real estate together. So if we want to go buy a $20 million off market distress building and we need, you know, $6 million down payment to buy it, we'll go out and we'll raise $6 million from other investors who want to buy it with us and together we buy it. Okay. That's cool. And then so for people that are thinking about getting involved, this is obviously they find a syndicate that they feel good about and then the tradeoff is that syndicate will take care of all of the active work. They become a passive investor in real estate.

I'm sure there's management and fees or whatever that are discussed ahead of time, and then they get to participate in the real estate market but without getting their hands dirty. Exactly, because here's the thing. Everybody needs to invest in real estate. Okay, but you brought something up in a minute ago. Like, you're working on so many opportunities. You can't leave these opportunities to go learn how to flip houses. So because you don't want to lose your opportunities,

it doesn't mean you shouldn't invest in real estate. but that's why we exist because like everybody's seen what real estate's done over the last two decades, right? I mean, it is just skyrocket. And it's not going to stop. Yeah, it's a way to get an active real estate portfolio, but without having to actively be a real estate developer. I have to get Heather's pros and cons. I'm sorry, guys, of being on reality television. I want to know because your experience was very different.

It seems. Yes. This is a hunch. Very, very different. Gosh, how juicy can we get? Well, you know, when the show first started, So I was there from the very beginning. We shot, well, first of all, we were just an office.

We are a real estate office on Sunset Boulevard. Different producers would come to the office and offer us a show because, you know, you have a lot of pretty girls in the office. They're all real estate agents. Most were past models. And then you have two twin brothers that are, you know, the Oppenheim group. So it was an interesting office. And at first, like everyone was like, no, we don't want to do reality. And then we're like, you know what?

Let's try it. And we shot a pilot and Netflix picked it up. And then in the beginning, we're like, this is not going to go anywhere. Because this is back when, like, Netflix didn't have reality shows. Like it was, you know, Bravo and it was MTV, like things like that. It wasn't Netflix. So we're like, it's probably not going to go anywhere, season one. And then that's it.

By season, I met him right after I filmed season one. It was like the summer after. Can you keep her hands off? Yeah. Sure. Can you hold hands here? I could use a break from you up this morning, to be honest. I don't even realize we were holding hands.

Stop. By season three is when Selling Sonset really got known. And in the beginning, it was just all, like, fun, not crazy drama. It was just, we were all friends. Like, any drama was just, you know, simple. And then it just got worse and worse and worse. They started adding in more girls. it just became out of control.

And I mean, there'd be days I came home to him, like, crying from the stress of filming. Yeah, and everything. And then, you know, you film it, you go through it. It's your real life. And then the show comes out. You have to watch it and then deal with all the stress again. And then you have to hear from all the fans. And you get attacked for, you know, almost everything you do because the fans are so vocal and on social media.

And so it's like you're going through the stress and you're filming. And then you get a little break. and then it comes out and you go through it again. But, you know, some of these girls are still my really close friends. So that was a really positive that I took away from it. I filmed my show on Selling Sonsa and our show together, The Flipping El Mousas, up until I was basically about to give birth. I was two weeks before I gave birth to Tristan.

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and what feels toxic. I guarantee you there was an energy that you were putting out that was like maybe protective over you and your son that they felt and that they realized that they couldn't penetrate anymore. It was better. I mean, you know, it was a blessing that I wasn't asked to come back because I'm so much happier filming my show with Tarek. And, you know, we get to, we're co-producers on our show. So we pick the hours.

And with selling sunset, I never knew when I was going to be filming. it was last minute. It took over my life. It was hard to do my real job. Real estate was hard to do anything else. And I was away from him all the time. I was away from our kids all the time. And I was, you know, I'd be gone for like 12 to 14 hours someday. It was crazy because we live in Orange County. So I had to drive up to L.A. And so it was pretty brutal. And it's like, you know, they just want more and more and more. And, you know, you saw me on the show. I pretty much was level-headed almost the whole time. I was kind of, you know, first. friends with everyone and more like the chill.

Like I kept things like pretty chill in my life. And but yeah, it's very toxic. You're around a bunch of women that everyone wants to be stars on the show and number one. And, you know, they'll kind of do anything. I feel like maybe some of our other or future guests won't, that a participant in reality won't like me saying this much. But I feel like it's one of those things where if you can use it as a tool to build a great platform and get some exposure great, but then some people get so sucked.

into it. They like almost stay at the party too long. It's like they think it's their real life. And obviously it is our real life to an extent. Yeah. I was wondering like, hey, it's season 13. Maybe it's time to hang it up. You know what I mean? Or like, hey, maybe it's season eight. Like, have you not figured out how to expand beyond. And again, people might hear me say this and get offended. But I just, I think everybody that we've talked to, most people have an intention going into these. But I think some people over time lose sight of that intention. Like, this is my new world. And this is who I am. Yeah, you're so spot on. Yeah. You're so spot on. And I think that was like, like, me and a few other other girls, we didn't let that take over our real life. Like, he's more important to me than our kids and our happiness than, you know, film me a reality show. But I, you know, I got amazing benefits from it. I have a great fan base and touch so many different people's lives and all around the world and got my platform. And, you know, it was such a great transition to now be on HDTV and filming with him. And I'm thriving. I'm obsessed with what I do. I'm now designing homes. I'm flipping homes with him. Like, I have a whole new craft and I'm so much more passionate about this. And she is so damn good. Oh my God. Wait till you guys see season two. I swear like these are the most

gore. And I flipped a lot of houses. These are the most gorgeous houses I've ever done. I have an eye for design because I came from luxury real estate. But it's, you know, it's a very different craft because we're flipping homes. So you have to figure out how to make the most money. So return on investment, but also make the homes beautiful. So we have a really good way about finding materials for the houses that are inexpensive that looked very high end. I think it sounds like you squeeze the juice out of the orange and you got what you needed to get out of it and you left at the appropriate time to do what you wanted to do. She leveraged it into a career.

That's the way to do it. It's like either do what you did and go in with a mission where you're like, I'm here to promote my business or use it as a stepping stone like a lily pad to get to where you want to be. And I didn't know in the beginning, like, I, you know, we just all signed up for this. We didn't know what it was going to become, like, if anything. And so, you know, when I met Targ is when my career really, I feel like started. And I was, what, 31 when we met. And then I feel like my career just got stronger and stronger because he's such an entrepreneur.

And, you know, I was right there. I just needed someone to come into my life and really like help me flourish. I would say he really helped me flourish. That's true. I needed someone. Were there things that happened on that show that maybe got you to a place where like, I'm done with this and I don't want to keep tolerating it? Or is it like things that you felt were inappropriate? Or is it just like, it just kind of?

I've never talked about those type of details because I feel like, you know, it's just not appropriate with how I want to portray certain things. I'm just not there in my life where I would talk about those things yet. But maybe one day. Yeah, there's some pretty nasty shit. There's some nasty things that happen. Yeah. Maybe I'll write a book. Yeah.

How well. Yeah. You guys should write a him in her book. Yeah. And spill all the juicy secrets. How did you guys meet? Aw. We met Fourth of July, 2019.

What was he wearing? Were you wearing American flag boxers? He was wearing these board shorts that he still has to this day. He wanted me throw him away. He is like a creature of habit. He wore the same flip-flops, board shorts, black tank top or t-shirt, Brixton. You still have it. I'm simple.

I'll wear the same outfit five days a week for five years. That's the way to do it. You don't have to think. It's decision fatigue. I met Lauren when we were 12 and I still wear the same underpants because I feel like that's what keeps it going. That's the excitement. Every day I've never taken them off.

So did you go up to Heather? No. Well, we'll tell the story. Let's hear his version. It's a good one. So, you know, confidence is key. All right. So it's 4th of July.

We're at a bar in Newport Beach called the Woody's where all the, you know, there's like four spots for votes. You're already missing some of the points. So I was living in Los Angeles. Story lost in four seconds. We can do it together. We're better when we bounce off each other. So I was living in Los Angeles at the time because I think like you guys know you're San Diego, Los Angeles. There's a distance. People that live in L.A. don't go down to Orange County that often. And it's like a Dubai. She's going way back. She's just like four score and seven years ago. Go ahead. Four score. Go pull off the scroll. I like to like. Wait, hold on. Let's get the map. So before we met on Fourth of July, she was born September 16th, 1987.

Hey, don't age me. But yeah, so I came down to L.A. for Fourth of July, and it's a big party down in Fourth of July in Newport Beach at this place called Woody's. It's like a famous little dive bar, boat dock area, and it's hard to get a boat slip there. So his boat was parked there, and the boat I was on was next to him. A girlfriend of mine who was living in Los Angeles was on his boat. And I saw her and I was like, oh my gosh. So I went and jumped down on his boat. And I'll take it from here.

It was a good party, by the way. I still get in trouble for all the girls on my boat that day, by the way. Yeah, he was a player. So I'm like mid-conversation and I just see like this blonde hair and this braid. And like mid-sentence stop talking. And I look and I'm like, who is that? I was fresh meat. I haven't seen her around here.

So like I just walk, be lined right to her. Of course I'm feeling good. I'm on my boat, my yacht, right? So I'm like, okay. I'm ahead of the game here. confidence. Confidence. I needed the boat. Trust me. So I put my hand. I go, I'm Tori and she goes, she shakes my head. She goes,

I know who you are. So the first thing I'm thinking is, yeah, you know who I am. Of course, you know who I am. And then she goes, you asked me out two years ago. And then I'm like, oh shit. On Instagram. Retreat, retreat, retreat. I was like, where'd I ask you out? She goes, Instagram. I go, hold on. My DMs, guys. Hold on. So then I spun my back to her. I pulled it up.

I looked and she wrote me back that she had a boyfriend. So I spun back around. I was like, well, you still got that boyfriend. She goes, no. Yeah. So then he asked me, like, no jokes. He says, next weekend, do you want to go to Paris with me? Wait, pause for a second. What is the appropriate DM slide in?

The appropriate. Let's see. Videos. Ew, God. It used to work for me all the time. I'm just kidding. No, videos that I got on Snapchat were like pulsing penises. I can't with videos.

I've been with Lauren for so long. I missed the whole era of online. What's the appropriate DM slide in? It's a really hard one because it's a very, There's a fine line between being... Well, I turned him down, so I don't know. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you didn't turn nothing down. You had a boyfriend.

I don't know. I mean, I do remember, like, seeing the DM from him. Because, you know, this was years ago back in 2000. When did we meet 19? So it was probably 2017 then. And I saw, like, his name. I knew who he was because of TV and, like, the divorce. I remember, like, that was like a...

Oh, his divorce was everywhere. So I knew who he was from both. And then, I don't know. I think he was just... You asked me to go to drinks or something. No, no. I butchered this story. this okay so I asked her to go to Paris she goes

we're not there yet they're asking about sliding and DM oh the DMs is a good that's a good move yeah I was thinking that's a hard to yeah you guys swing for the fences I'm not at home I'm not gonna go I told you we get sleep in separate beds I told her I said we'll get separate beds no problem not separate rooms separate beds so you didn't go to Paris no so then I said what about Vegas and she goes no I'm not going anywhere with you overnight

and I said okay in Vegas is a big that's a despair he's like let me try Vegas then a little closer listen you swing for the And you just, you start at the top. I was very, like, skeptical because, you know, I'd have been single in L.A. And most, yeah. And I'm like, guys are just douchebags. So I just thought he was going to be another one of those. Like, he's on TV.

Like, I knew his story. You know, you hear different things about people. And, you know, I judged, obviously. But we did have a connection. And we started having, like, a deeper conversation on the boat. And then this girl comes up. We were talking, I think, something about your divorce. Yes.

this girl comes up and she goes, like, drunk, there'll be no talk about divorce on this boat. And I just said, you know what? I was 31 at the time. I'm like, you know what? I don't need this. And I was like, I'm going to leave. And so I left the boat. So this is where I'm picking it up.

So now I'm like about to cry. I'm sulking. I walk downstairs on the boat. I'm sitting there feeling like miserable and sad. And then I realize, I'm like, well, wait a minute. You're not a pussy. Get out there and do something about it. So then I ran upstairs and I went to the wheelhouse.

And I found the button that said horn because I looked across and she was talking to some handsome dude on the front of the bow. He was making her laugh. I saw her throw her hair back. I said, oh, hell of know. I was a hot commodity about that day. I said, I am not going down. I hit that horn so loud. The whole dock, the whole bar, the whole restaurant.

He did, you guys. We have it on video somewhere. And I stuck my head on. I yelled at the guy to get off my girl. And that was it. Oh, my God. You know what I like about you? You know what you want.

Oh, he does. I'm going for it. He goes for it. Yeah. So what did you do? I went back on the boat. And the best part. I walk up with the guy

he goes, big fan bro, watch on the car. Couldn't have been better. We went back on the boat and like, he took a picture with me. He took like a selfie with me and posted it on social media. And I tagged me and I was like, that's weird.

Like guys, especially him would, you don't usually do those things. But then we exchange numbers. And he asked me to. It's a territory grab. Yeah, exactly. I guess so.

I respect it. Exactly. And then he asked me to go on a date. And I said yes. But then the day of our. date, the first, the day of the day, I texted in that morning and I just said, you know, I can't do this and I'm going to, I have to cancel our date. Man, making me work.

And he said, you guys love it when they make them work. Right? Yeah. I don't even know I was playing a game when I was. It's the best game. It was a game. And he wrote me back and he said, I'm different than you think I am, give me a chance. And I'm like.

And I am. And he is and he was. And that statement right there, I'm like, you know what? And he kind of pursued, kept pursuing me without being like annoying about it. Because if he would have bombarded me, I would have been like, ugh, you know. And we went on our first date and I made him work. I said, I'm only going to go to drinks at 8 o'clock on a Monday night. And he's like, okay.

I got back from South Africa the night before, by the way. But he did it. And he picked me up and we went to somewhere here in Beverly Hills. It was a disaster. It was a disaster. Why? I mean, do you guys want to hear really? I love the details.

Oh my God, it's such a disaster. Like, I'm so excited for this date. So before the date, I'm supposed to be, like, the main host at this big golf event with the helicopter dropping the ball. And as the helicopters there, I'm sneaking out the back door because I got to get to this date. So I, like, bailed on my event. And I know I look good in this one blue sweater I have. I wear every Christmas.

It's like the closer, you know, it's my go-to. I don't know if I wear the sweater, she's going to love me. Yeah. But I forgot the fact that it was in the middle of summer in LA. during a heat wave. So you sweat a lot. Yeah. So the whole dinner, I can feel beads of sweat coming down, down my forehead off my nose

onto my lips. In every two minutes, I'm like, I got to go to the bathroom. I got to go to the bathroom. So I'm leaving her the whole night. And I'm vaping in the corner. He's like, are you on cocaine? He's going to the bathroom. Did you just think he was nervous or what did you think?

Honestly. And he kept putting, he also, he's kind of, yeah, he's kind of kooky, you know, and you don't really know that about him. But he's also very swaggy. So, like, I always thought he was kind of dorky, even on TV. I called. I told my mom, like, mom, he's kind of a dork. Like, I don't know. And he kept putting on chapstick. He'd like, put it on and he'd wipe it off. And I'm like, what are you doing? Wipe it off. Like over and over and over. He's like nervous energy and sweating and he'd go to the bathroom. It was a disaster. But she was having fun. Like, she was enjoying the show. Here's the thing. In his defense, I think sometimes when men, like there's a, there's a pursuit of loss and there's a pursuit of like, hey, I want. want to be with somebody.

You had a couple, like, nervous moments. Don't talk about me. Yeah, you know what I talk about. You're a nervous moment. It's a different kind of nervous. Okay. This is going to be really fucked up to say, but maybe some of the men and women listening will get it.

I think the pursuits of lust are very easy because you don't have as much skin in the game. You don't really care if it goes south. 100%. It's like, I want to sleep with this girl. Yes. I liked her. But if you like someone, you're just like, and also you've put this whole other framework and this whole other thought and you're thinking of like the building a lot.

It's like, it just comes with this whole group of pressure. Because, like, I felt that I was fine with women. But then when I first started pursuing, like, there was a bunch of that shit that happened to me. And I was like, what's happening? Yeah, what is this? And I didn't understand why. Like, I'm not normally like this.

She's like, what do you talk about? Get it together. She looks at me. So finally, I come back from the bathroom after like 700 times. And she looks at me. She goes, are you okay? He's like, I'm not okay. And I look at it.

I go, I am not okay. And she goes, let's get drunk. I said, I'm in. We started just doing shots and, like, having, like, a good time. And then we ended up going to, like, a speakeasy bar after and FaceTime the whole way home, like the two-hour drive home he had. And that was kind of it. It was like.

And then I think it was four days later, I picked, oh, no, no, a few days later, picked you up for our second day. Well, I sent the van to get you in the boat and you and your girlfriend. And I got caught filming, so I missed most of the day. And then a few days after. that, I showed up for our third date and the new Ferrari that I got her. I got her Ferrari on the third day and then we moved in together. I wonder if the Ferrari helped. I think so. Wait, hold on. You pull up in a Ferrari and it's yours. A white porophino.

He brought me a Ferrari. Why did I get my third date? I did this part out. I got like P.F. Chang's Calamari. But you guys were younger, right? I'd like a white furor. I was trying to figure out which pot to piss in back there. Wait, so does he show up with a white Ferrari with like a pink bow? Like what was the thing? Not yet. So he had asked me, first he asked me, like, what my dream car was. And I said, like, a white sports car, white, you know. And I think, did I say a white Ferrari? I can't remember. I think, no, you think you just said a white sports car. Yeah. And then he shows up in this white Ferrari. And at first, I'm like, is, is he fucking with me? Like, is this really, like, for me? Is it, I am I borrowing it? Like, I didn't know, like, what was going on. And I think, like, so driving around in L.A. and a Ferrari is very scary. I remember ruined the wheel. like right away. And then a little bit later,

he ended up getting like brand new wheels put on it. And for my birthday, he had it like wrapped in a bow. It was all like tinted out. Like he like made it mine like because it was like stock, you know, or Ferrari when it came. And then he like souped it up and made it mine.

And then it was my car. Thoughtful. Yeah. Did you know you were going to marry her the first time you met her? Yeah. Yeah. Well, too. Like as I was pushing the horn,

I knew that was my wife. Well, also because like, you know, I think a deeper, deeper side of it was he went through a really rough personal life, rough divorce, and he was not planning on getting married again. You went through the roughest divorce that I've never seen anything like it. Was that just because all of the cameras were around? We get context, rough because of just so public. Yeah, Michael doesn't understand.

I don't even know how to describe it. It was awful paparazzi chasing me on the freeways waiting outside my house. And then like the thing is like most couples in Hollywood or whatever, when I'm not in Hollywood, but I guess I am. You know, they get pressed for two weeks, three weeks, and it dies. They wouldn't. It was relentless. It for years. Why do they care so much about this particular one?

I have no. Because I think like America followed our journey. Like, Flip or Flop became the number one show on TV. Like we were beating NBA playoffs. It was wild. And people watched us from being like these broke kids to like, you know, what we became. And I think they were really invested in our family. And then I think the world was shocked when everything exploded.

It was like an innocent couple. And then all of a sudden they divorced. Yeah. Exactly. It was very similar with Rachel Hollis and David Hollis when they went through that divorce. People like had followed them for their relationship. And then they broke up. And it was almost like a projection on to other people that they were maybe were worried that they would break up because this couple broke up.

Does that make sense? 100% what they can't make it. How are we going to make it? Yeah. It's also what's happening with Kyle. Maricio, like, there's like this, like, energy of, like, it's like they project their own insecurity onto this reality couple that is in a marriage that they perceive a certain way. And during the time, were you and your ex, was there, was there a contention there too?

Or was it just like there was so much attention that you guys were both just bombarded? Or was it like, also you guys were not. I mean, they were getting a divorce. I'm sure that's going to. Oh, no. You guys have no idea. Like, if people were on set with us, like, we, it was the wildest thing for years. Because they had to continue to film together.

We didn't say one word to each other. We wouldn't look at each other. Oh, wow. The second the cameras were on, bam. Cameras off. Bam. Like, literally, we did not communicate unless it was on camera for probably three years. And if we were communicating, it was not good communication.

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Plus you get free shipping. Just go to the farmersdog.com slash skinny to get 50% off. That's the farmer's dog.com slash skinny. If someone's listening and they are in a position, I have a step mom. And I know how hard it is to come in to my dad had two kids. She had two kids to merge that. It was hard for her. How did you deal with that?

Well, before I met him, I mean, he wasn't even in the picture of my life. I always had said, I think it would be very hard for me to date someone that had kids already and had that situation. And then fast forward, I meet him. Ferrari didn't hurt. Stop. The Ferrari does help. I mean. No, but taking all that.

away, you know, like, I mean, he was very romantic, but I, we just fell so deep in love, so fast, and I met the kids right away. I met his whole family right away. We moved in together within, like, what, two weeks? Less than two weeks. Yeah. And from the very beginning, he made me so comfortable with the situation. And the kids loved me right away. So I got really close with Taylor, who is my stepdaughter. She was eight at the time. And Brayden, my stepson was three. So right away, they welcomed me in. It wasn't like this awkward transition. Like she was singing the song like Tark and Heather sitting in a tree kissing, having babies the first day I met her. So and that he right away integrated me into his life like our life, we, what do you want to do to the house? Like it was

never this awkward situation of me coming into their life and becoming a stepmom. Sorry. My daughter Taylor just knew like dad had been real sad for a real long time and Heather was like The first person that, like, you know, I brought around as someone I was interested in. That wasn't a friend. So it was a big deal. She was ready for, like, a woman in his life. And that's very mature for an eight-year-old girl. How many years since you divorced or separated from your previous partner?

This was. You guys were separated. About three and a half years. Okay. So the kids, they had a lot of time between that. They had time. Yeah. And, you know, they were still filming their show together, which I knew.

So coming into the life, like, I knew, like, he still has to have film. with this woman. You know, he still has kids with her. Like, I wasn't coming in to change his whole life. I was coming in to be a part of his life. And, you know, it, it now five years, almost five years later, I look back like a lot of things are different, so different now than they were back then. And even my confidence in his life as his wife and the kid stepmom, my confidence is so much better because you are coming into kind of like a chaotic situation, right? Like, I took on a lot. But I love it. I I mean, I loved it from the beginning. I loved being a stepmom.

That's really what made me want to be a mom because I never, I always said, like, I didn't want kids, but I also don't think I met ever the person I wanted to have kids with until I met Tarek. So how did that conversation come up? Did you bring it up? Or did you bring it up about having kids? We actually talked about it in the very beginning. I remember I was sitting at, this was before I moved in together. And he came into my house I was living in.

And I could tell like there was something like really bothering him. And he sat me down and he's like, I just. just want to be really clear with you. And I hope this doesn't like ruin our, you know, our situation, but I don't want any more kids. And I said, it's okay. I don't either. And then fast forward to, I think I started kind of talking about like, maybe I want a baby. And, you know, I just love being a stepmom so much. I love you so much. And then at first he was like, I don't know. I don't think so. And then I don't know. And then we decided yes. Yeah. And then after we got married, we just, it was you know yeah like weeks no it wasn't weeks but we had a lot of fun

a lot of fun and how do you guys like being parents together now oh I love it yeah Heather's honestly like the best mom like for real is like the best mom I mean the the kids are number one and you know for me this is just a different experience you know I'm older I'm more established I'm a little calmer I have a lot more life experience you know with my my first two I was you know my first one I was 29 years old overwhelmed never home working and never even saw her my second one i was right going after cancer is going through the divorce like so this time it's just been different and it's it's been a beautiful experience like he loves me like he loves me loves me and it's it's nice to know that you know 13-month-old baby

loves me because i really didn't have that with my other two when they were really really young how did you deal with having cancer and everything you have going on with two young like that's a you've been through a lot yeah how did you deal with two cancers actually so i found out so a nurse out Texas was watching my show saw a lump on my throat. That's how I found out through research that I had thyroid cancer. And then because of that, I checked old medical records. And then through more research, I found out I had testicular cancer. So in 2013, I had both cancers at the same time. So I was really messed up. About a year and a half, two years. And then I finally started feeling better for like six weeks. And then I hurt my back on the golf course. And that was worse than the cancer. Like,

I couldn't barely walk for over a year, lost 60 pounds. and then after that I had complications with the surgery and then after like it was just hell so I was really banged up I would say for about five years and then emotionally banged up for another you know four years so looking back in my life I kind of feel like I lost nine years of my life but that's why today I'm in like hyper mode overdrive because I'm trying to make up for lost time when you get those kind of diagnosis or you get that news how do you manage that stress and information man you just you just deal with it so like when I

I found out I had the thyroid cancer. I was like, okay, we're going to start the fight, right? A few weeks later, I found I had testicular cancer. So there's two different cancers. And then that was the moment where I actually said, okay, I'm going to die. And I didn't know anything about cancer, but when I hear I have two cancers, like, I'm in big trouble. Most people would assume go to that same space. So I thought it was over. So then I made a decision in that moment that I was going to ride it to the end and burn the boats and work my ass off and leave my family with as much as I could. And that's what I did.

And I filmed through, I mean, I filmed through, I filmed the entire season with the cancers and the surgeries and the treatments, like, in between scenes, I'm throwing up in the bushes, you know, like, but I did it. I imagine, though, that perspective, you know, I feel like, and you guys might relate to this, having kids, like, the worst thing that can happen is if you hear, like, when your kids is sick or there's something going wrong. I don't think there's a greater hell on earth. And I've said on this show, like, I don't, would not wish that experience even on my

worst enemy. There's nothing worse. But then second to that is like something like this going on with you personally, I think it puts everything else in perspective. Like all of the work, all the money, all the material stuff becomes so much less important. I mean, in this case, it's important to leave something to your family. But you know what I mean? And I imagine that's created tremendous drive in your life now because you're probably so

grateful to have health. Oh man, I can't even tell you guys like how much, you know, gratitude I have in my life because of all the hell I've been through. And you know what? I tell people, you know, you want to live the full. this life possible, make sure you go through a lot of really hard times because it gives you a new appreciation for what you have. And most people, they're not grateful and they're not appreciative because they don't know how bad life could be. Sure. And I do. And obviously your cancer free now.

Yeah, yeah, 11 years. Good for you. Thank you. I would love to go in to routines that you guys have. To be this successful, there's a lot of stuff that goes on to set you up to thrive. What are some things that you guys do in the morning that you think make a big difference, like maybe habits? My life has changed a lot since having Tristan, and I've really had to kind of figure out a new routine for myself. And this is something I'm still figuring out. You know, I'm on my first baby. So life, as you know, you're a mom of two. It's very, very chaotic in the beginning. And so for me, I'm, you know, early riser no matter what, but I'm usually up by like 5.30 in the morning. sometimes like 545, Tristan's usually up right around that time as well. So my mornings are just busy with Tristan. I usually have my workout with my trainer. She comes to my house about three days a week. I don't drink caffeine ever. No, I mean, I'll have tea, but I don't drink it to get myself going in the morning. It's just not something that I need. I'm plant-based, so I eat a full plant-based diet. And I've been doing that for like since I was 22 years old. I'm 36 now. But fitness, health.

health, wellness has always been a big part of my life. But going through pregnancy, you know, there's a lot of things of my beauty routine that I had to stop or things that I was taking that I had to stop. And so I really am like getting back into my beauty and my health and wellness routine right now, now that I'm having like a little bit more time. But, you know, both of us are really big on routines. I'm a perfectionist. Sometimes too much of a perfectionist. So, you know, we have assistance that really help keep us balance because our life is so crazy with filming. Like that adds a whole other layer to life. it's not just taking care of the kids and meetings and zooms and appointments. It's filming as like a crazy gnarly thing that we have to deal with. And him, he's, I mean, he is, I'm so proud of him

because he used to, he loves sleep. And like now he's changed his whole routine. I do love sleep, but you know, interest rates doubled. Things have changed. You know, I used to wake up. It had 6.50 in the morning. Now I wake up between 3.30 and 4.30. What? Yeah. Wait, wait, wait. You wake up at 3. Between 330 and 4. What's how do you guys go to bed? Usually we're in bed by nine. Okay. I go to bed though at 8.30 and I don't wake up at 3.30. Normally fall asleep 10 to 11.

No, 11? Are you insane? No, we're usually asleep by 930 to 10. No, never 930. I'll pull up the whoop right now. You know what? You just got to say yes, dear. Yes, number of course. God, you guys, when are you going to learn?

Actually, let me correct you. The other day I looked at you, it's yes, dear. Yes, ma'am. I'm going to deal with a fight. So, but I wake up, you know, if I wake about 3.30 in the morning, every day, I go straight to work. Like, the first thing I do is go to work. I'm checking all the emails, the social media messages, leads coming in. So the morning is my time to actually think and create because I'm so busy through the day, there's no time to actually think and create.

So the first half hour is checking what came in since the night before. And then from like, you know, four to six, 15, that's my time to study. Like last week, I was studying about AI and recreating myself in an AI version. and I found a software where the eyes look at the lens, even though I'm looking at the side. So I'm always like, that's my research time. Yeah, that's his quiet time before. It's usually Tristan and I come down around 6.05 or so. And then he has his little moment with Tristan while I get his bottle ready.

And, oh, I go on walks every morning. Like, I mean, like this, I hate to like be like, oh, kids, no kids, we can do that. But I do not think it is possible to be, people ask, like, is it hard to race? It's not easy, but we're not the first ones to do it, right? But what I say is if you have kids you have to do things like you're talking about

You cannot get up at the same time In the house and just run out Like what's that show Was that shameless? Yeah But I was like throwing the toast That your kids are gonna become like that You have to have isolated time

By yourself to get away Because as soon as the day gets going Like you just I was telling my buddy The other day who doesn't have kids And like You in the morning What do you do in the morning?

You get up you do your routine You walk out of the house Like that's not what happens When our kids wake up I have to have isolated time For hours to get away To get my mind straight Yeah, no, 100%.

If you're not doing that as a parent, I think you're just at a serious disadvantage because you're just stuck into the chaos of the day. And you either have to do that. The only time for that is mornings before everyone wakes up or at night when the kids go down. And that's the big problem, though. People are not taking care of themselves, right? Right. Like, life is overwhelming, especially when you have a family. Like, I'm so much happier with that, you know, two hours of me time in the morning.

And if it wasn't for that, like, I mean, I would be just so overwhelmed. And then, you know, they come down and then I get to the gym. leave the house about 6.30, go to the gym from, like, I get there at like 650 to 8 o'clock. I listen to audio books on the way. I do cardio for 20 minutes. I work out until 805, 17 minute drive home, listen to audio books. Have a protein shake, and then it's zoom, zoom, zoom, zoom, then I get ready, and then I go film, then I come back. And normally, like my scheduled work normally ends around like six, I would say. But then I work through the rest of the night just, you know, working. Yeah, so people listening when they hear that time,

that sounds insane. But when I heard it, I was like, oh, you have to do these things, or else the other stuff would just fall apart. You know who you remind me of? Rob Deer Deereck. Someone told me that recently. He's so like that with his time. Brian Holliday posted this thing about you. People don't have enough silence in their life.

And the reason that they don't have enough silence is because they don't actively seek out solitude. And it's so true. As parents, you have to actively seek it out. For me, it's at the foot spa. The hole in the wall foot spa where I'll go work for two hours. I'll ask for... I'll see you work while you're there.

I say, can I have two people, one on each foot for two hours? And that's where I, like, I literally... I've built my business in a footstball. Like, I'm not even joking you. But whatever it is... I want to try this. It's the best thing ever.

It's got to be, like, a real hole in the wall foot spa where you're not going to run into, like, Stephanie from high school. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm talking, like... I mean, the last... I went to a happy ending in the back end of it.

I was going to say, the last time I went to one of those spas. I got in big toes. Yeah, you know, honestly, If you don't tell me, I don't know about it, okay? No, but I, you know, I think I tell Lauren all the time, the worst version of me is the version of where I haven't taken that time to be in solitude by myself.

You don't say. Especially for what we all do. There's a lot of stimulants. Get the fuck away from me and go. I'm like, go take a walk. Go have your time. Go. But I think everybody has to have that time.

Like, I don't think that's an individual. I think everybody has to take time to just be alone with themselves and be comfortable being alone with their own thoughts and silence. You know, it's without this or this and they get, you know, podcast, audio books, TV, this, like, social media. People, people are just not good, I don't think, at sitting alone with themselves. I think that leads to a lot of chaos and unhappiness. Agree. Tell us about what you guys are working on your new book, Flip Your Life.

Tell us about all the things where everyone can find you. Give us what's coming up. Yeah. So Flip Your Life just came out February of 2024. And it's my story. I know, it's the story of how I got to where I got. and all the lessons I learned along the way. How did I go from being broke to where I am today?

How did I get started in real estate? How did I get my shows? How did I raise money to flip houses? How did I get through my cancers, my divorce? And it's really a guide to help anyone turn their life around. You know, I used to be a chain smoking, overweight alcoholic. Yeah, sleeping 14 hours a day. That was my life.

How old were you then? Late teens, up until I was about 20. Yeah. But no, I was real rough on my body until I was about 31. A big drinker, big smoker. When I got my cancers, I quit smoking and drinking. Wow. Well, not cold turkey.

I just a lot less. No more smoking. But yeah, like the book is there to help people. Like, no bullshit. Like, if someone's going through a hard time, this book is a book that can help with the mindset and help get them back on track. And with all the stories, it gives great ideas on how to get into real estate and how to make money, how to start businesses.

I cannot wait to read it. It sounds right up my alley. Heather, what are you working on right now? Oh my gosh. I am working on life. No, I'm kidding. You have a surprise. Oh, we do.

Yeah, but we can't talk about it. No, we can't. I know. I wish we could, but filming on HGTV, the flipping L. Mousas, that keeps me really busy. Being a new mommy and really like getting, figuring out my life as a new mommy. New mommy with a baby.

I mean, I've been a stepmom now, but it's different when you have a baby in the house, you know, and a newborn and an infant. But I am really getting more vocal again on social media. I feel like I'm myself again. It took about a year working on something in the beauty industry. It's ready to launch. We're just putting all the things together right now.

And you can find me on my social media. It's Heather Ray El Moussa. You guys are so fun because Michael and I can really relate to both of you guys because you guys seem like you do a lot together. Like you work, you do business together, you film together. We podcast together. And you also have to make time for the marriage and the kids. There's a lot of layers to the onion.

Yep. And you don't meet, I mean, I don't meet a lot of couples that work together the way all of us do. I think you have to be really like best friends with each other in the end. Like, that's so important. Yeah, you have to like each other. Yeah, sometimes people will give us like shit because of the banter we have because it's maybe not as common, you know, other people in like boring relationship. No, this is normal. But what I always say is like, imagine if you were with your childhood best friend in the ribbing that takes place.

that's how Lauren, we've known each other since we were 12. Like we say we do things like as best friends. And, you know, I wish that everybody in relationship has that kind of relationship. But I think from that perspective, like that, of course, that's why we have kind of the dynamic and banter we have is like, it's like my best friend, right? That's how we, that's how we communicate. Yeah. Can't get rid of him.

Thank you guys for both coming on. Flip your life. Cannot wait to read it. Thank you guys. Thank you. Come back anytime. Yes. Thank you guys.

And of course, if anyone wants to buy real estate with me and my amazing why you got to check out TEM capital.co and HEM capital.cotele. And we talk about it on our Instagrams a lot too. I see maybe a podcast in your future. We've actually been exploring

that. We're the four of us. We just take shots into a podcast. I like this one. I know a place that produces them. Yeah. I know, right? Yeah. Beautiful place.