The Bossticks - How Stress & Emotions Affect Your Physical Health: Understanding The Mind-Body Connection & How To Feel Better Ft. Nicole Sachs

Episode Date: October 12, 2026

#1,015: Join us as we sit down with Nicole Sachs – psychotherapist, bestselling author, speaker, podcaster, and internationally recognized leader in mind-body medicine. She is the creator of JournalSpeak®, a neuroscience-informed writing practice that has helped thousands transform chronic pain and other symptoms. In this episode, Nicole shares her personal journey with chronic pain and breaks down the connection between emotional stress, the nervous system, and physical symptoms. She explains how to recognize when stress and repressed emotions may be contributing to chronic pain, how to use JournalSpeak to process what's beneath the surface, and why self-compassion is essential to healing. Nicole also walks through a simple daily practice listeners can use to begin exploring the mind-body connection for themselves.   For Detailed Show Notes visit TheBossticks.com   To connect with Nicole Sachs click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Shop The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   To learn more about Nicole Sachs visit https://www.nicolesachs.com.    This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential  Reduce puffiness and boost radiance with The Skinny Confidential Mint Roller, now available at http://shopskinnyconfidential.com.    This episode is sponsored by Function Health Join at http://functionhealth.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY25 for a $25 credit.   This episode is sponsored by Tonies Toys Visit http://tonies.com to learn all about Toniebox Lite.   This episode is sponsored by Oh My Mahjong! Visit http://OhMyMahjong.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 10% off.   This episode is sponsored by Just Thrive Visit https://get.justthrivehealth.com/pages/skinny to learn more.   This episode is sponsored by Wayfair Join Wayfair Rewards today to get 5% back on every purchase. Head to http://Wayfair.com to shop all things home.   This episode is sponsored by Woo More Play Visit https://woomoreplay.com and use code SKINNY.    This episode is sponsored by Redken Shop Redken Acidic Grow Full System at Ulta Beauty.  Produced by Dear Media

Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostick. Together, they are the Bostics. Welcome back to the Bostics. This episode goes into the mind-body connection. If you are someone that has had any kind of pain in your body, you need to listen to this episode. If you've had headaches, back pain, neck pain, any kind of pain, gut pain, you need to listen to this. It will blow your mind. I have just started journal speak, which Nicole Sacks invented.

She is the guest of our show. She's a psychotherapist, bestselling author, speaker, and podcaster. In this episode, Nicole challenges the way we think about pain, symptoms, and what it means to actually heal. We're breaking down why the nervous system can continue producing very real physical symptoms even after the threat is gone. This is a must listen. Nicole Sacks, welcome to the Bostics. Tell us someone's listening. they have a pain. What is the first thing that you recommend? Okay. So if if you don't mind,

I'm going to start a little bit with my personal story because it helps invite in the answer to that question. When I was 19, I was at college and my back went out completely, not a little bit like I couldn't walk. I needed someone to take me and carry me to the bathroom, like a full-on. And so my parents came and got me and did what any responsible parents do. They, an MRI, x-ray, orthopedic surgery consults, all the stuff. And I had a very significant finding on my films, which was degenerative spondylolis thesis. And so, of course, everybody who looks at this is in 1990, keep in mind, are like, oh, well, that's the reason you're in terrible pain. And I was just like, of course it is.

I agree. Doctors are gods. Like, let's go. What do we do about this? I can't live like this. I have to go back to college. I was a freaking freshman, like just starting my life. And they're like, well, there's really nothing we can do about it.

Like you could get spinal fusion surgery one day, but you're 19 and otherwise healthy. Like not now, thank God. But it was like a major recovery. So they said, all you have to do is this. No more exercise, no more travel, no more sports, no more riding in the car for more than an hour because the bouncing motion will destabilize your back and The likelihood that you'll have a biological child is slim to none because of the months and months of bed rest that would be required for you to not completely destabilize your back. And essentially, and this was the subtext, that it would be like your fault that you'd be like in wheelchair.

And so that's 19 years old. And so I'm not going to go into like all the gory details, but just suffice to say I was a psychology student. I was contemplative. I was curious and I was a bit rebellious. And I was like, yeah. I mean, I took it seriously and I was definitely really upset, but I wasn't completely killed by it. There was something, some spark in me that was like, we'll see. And in the by and by, I found the work of Dr. John Sarno.

So at first, he was recommended to me, and this is really funny. And my whole life, when I look back, you know, life is so interesting being seen in the rear view. It's like all the things that transpired now have sort of a hilarious. like place in my life. So Rosie O'Donnell, back when she had her daily talk show when she was like at the top of her game, had an episode called Fix Jeanette. Now, Jeanette Barber was her producer and she was in a motorized wheelchair because she had foot, leg, and ankle pain that was so severe, but nobody could figure out what was wrong with her. So Rosie goes on air and she's like, my audience, this is a precious person to me. And like Jeanette like wheeled out in her wheelchair.

and she's like, can somebody help her? And people wrote in and said, check out the work of Dr. John Sarno. Cut to my mom, like sort of hysterical mother at this point, hearing this prognosis for her only child, is watching the follow-up episode. And Jeanette Barber had just run the New York Marathon. And my mom calls me,

and I was in grad school now at this point, and she's like, you have to get this book, Healing Back Pain, oh my God. So I got the book. And just to be totally honest, I was like 24, I didn't even read it. I read the back cover. I skimmed it. And I was like, what's the freaking point here?

And I was like, oh, if you're really, really angry, this is what I got at the time. If you're really, really angry and you have repressed rage, you may feel that in your back. That was all I got at the time. I'm a grad student. I was nannying for four kids. They were a huge pain in the ass. And like any four kids can be. And I remember my back would be killing.

me. Like I literally couldn't function. And so instead of lapsing into my failed life and am I going even have my own children and all that stuff, I just said, pause, what am I angry about? And I would have this little dialogue in my mind. Like, I'm allowed to swear on your podcast, right? It's been done before any time. I bet. I mean, I've heard it, but I always like to ask permission. I was like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? Why am I nannying for these kids? Like, fuck this one, fuck that one. Like, I just let this sort of rage dialogue go on in my mind. I was like, whatever, I'm a grad student studying to be a psychotherapist. I'll do a science experiment on myself. Let's see if this Sarno stuff holds water. Then I would attend to my back, like 10 minutes

later. And I was like, wait a second. It's actually like, it's something has changed. That's all I needed. I needed a crack in the shell. Something has changed. And that started me on this journey. And it's important that I tell you that my recovery has two chapters. And now that I've been in private practice, well, I was for 18 years in private practice really one-on-one hour to hour. And in the last several years, because, you know, be writing books and doing my podcast, I've moved that responsibility over to our coaches. And we have a global coaching situation. But at the time, I was like, okay, I'm going to do the science experiment on myself. I'm studying to be a therapist, let's see what happens. And I completely eliminated my back pain, kind of like you did

with the book cure. But, and the reason I say it has two chapters is because I always want people and you and you to be aware that if you, once you understand the neuroscience behind why all this happens, like deeply understand it, you'll understand why people get fooled. Like then they get migraines or then they get IBS or then they get something and they don't know that the back pain and the migraines are coming from the same place, and that can be really confusing. Well, that's what I took from the book as well, which keep going. Well, you actually read the book.

You did better than me. No, no, no. What's funny enough is people, well, first, the title is so simple that I think it just looks like I, I mean, all respect to John Zarno. No, it looks like a joke. It looks like a joke book. And it's also a skinny book. Yeah, it's like keeling back pain, like, oh, this one, you know.

And it also just like, like, I mean, it also just like, Okay, it's, yeah, good one. That's simple to just like do this. But no, the thing that I took away from it. And by the way, everyone I've talked to, so I had a business partner call me. He heard this episode that we just did the other day where we talked about this topic. He was like, oh my God. He read like eight pages and was healed. You just said you read the cover. I read maybe half and then I got healed. But I think the big thing that I took away from it outside of all the psychological things you're talking about was that really like this pain can be transferred into any symptom. Yes, indeed. And you can manifest in any areas. Go back to your second chapter. Keep going. Keep going. My second chapter is this. I had Isabella and I had Oliver and I exercised till the day they were born. And I was like, I am healed. Let the angels sing.

Like, go Dr. Sarno. Oliver's 10 months old. He's toddling around in his walker. And we had a deck that had like two steps that went to the driveway. And he kept getting a little too close. So I was like, let me just take the whole thing and put it on the driveway. And then it'll be fine because we were far from the road. I get halfway down.

And it felt like somebody was dragging. hot knife through my back. The pain rivaled childbirth. And so I'm in an L. I can't get up. I call out at the time to my ex-husband and I was like, something really bad happened. And this begins the worst year of my life. A year of chronic pain to beat the band. All the Sarno stuff out the window, right? Because that little skinny book, no thank you. I'm full of shame. I'm full of remorse. I did this to myself. I was told not to have children. And now I'm disabled and my children will never have a proper mother. Like the shame spiral was real. And so I go through this year and the year culminates. I'm in a deli. I'm trying to pay. My kids now, Oliver's walking. So now they're like one and a half and

three and a half. You know like the impulse bisection? The gummy worms. The chocolate covered pretzels. Like they're being wild. I am of course humiliated. And I have my diaper bag on my shoulder and I notice my back and it's locking and it's getting worse. So I was like, I have to get the fuck out of here. I take the kids by the wrists. It was an active parking lot. I get to the car and I can't get my kids in the car. So now I've got their wrists one and three. If I let go of either of their wrist, they could run into traffic. I can't get my keys. I can't get my phone. And I literally stood there and leaned my forehead against the driver side window of my car. And I just cried. I was like for my ruined life and my bad.

decisions. It was like low point of all low points. I honestly blacked out. Like I don't remember how long I stood there. I get back home somehow. I got them in the car, bath in bed, and I sat in my room and I remember looking out the window and just surrendering and being like, I don't know if Dr. Sarno's right with all that mind-body stuff that I really didn't understand. And I'm like, and I don't know if like I should get this surgery or I should go on opioids. I mean, this is before like the crazy epidemic. So like you didn't even know how bad. they were for you. And I was like, but I have to do something. And Dr. Sarno just popped into my mind. And I drove into the city. I was living in Westchester at the time. I drove into the city and I made an

appointment to see him in person. Thank God he was still practicing. This was many years ago. And so he takes one look at my films. I bring all my stuff and I'm such a type A, like a student. It was so embarrassing looking back. I wrote a novel for him of every time my back. I bend, I do this, after this, if I, you know, if I eat this, if I, like, if I take this supplement, like it was nuts. And I slide it across the desk, like solemnly to him. And he takes it. He does not lose my gaze and he throws it in the garbage, which was this like metal garbage can, those like university. And it was like, boom, and had like a clip on it and made this whole noise. And he's like, I don't need this. He said, I'm looking at your films. Let me examine you. Full medical examination.

come back, sit down. He said, there's no doctor in the world. Go to Mayo, go to Harvard, go to Hopkins. I don't care where you go. That's going to tell you that the abnormality I'm seeing on your film can account for the way your back pain moves. Sometimes it's down your butt. Sometimes it's up into your shoulder.

It moves from left to right because I'm explaining this to him. And he's like, mm-mm. He said, you have a condition called TMS. And I was like, what the hell is that? Because I hadn't read the book. And he explains to me. that when there are repressed emotions, and he explains this, by the way, all love to him and he would say this himself, so no disrespect poorly. But he explains it enough that I understand

that when there are repressed emotions, it's causing your brain to feel that you're in danger and the symptoms are more safe or more preferable to give you something to focus on. The way that I understood it again, like just after being a reader of the book, never meeting him and just in my brain, was that you have things. that happen in your life that are too painful for you to deal with from a with your mind. Yes. And so the mind says, I don't want to deal with that. I'm going to discard it and move the pain to a physical feeling in your body somewhere.

That could be headaches. That could be back pain. That could be whatever. Stomachymealgae. Autoimmune. Yes. I think it sounds crazy when people hear it. It would sound crazy to me if I didn't go through a similar thing that you went through

with my back, which is like, if you look at me, you know, middle-aged, happy, healthy person. I was like debilitated. Oh, like could not walk. Here, here. It would lock. I remember like I was going through New York when I had to tie my belt so tight just to walk down the street to get home. I hear that. And I was like and you, and it's when it locks up, it feels like you're almost like getting paralyzed. It's like it's crippling. And what I would tell people we were talking about like, for me, like the pain starts to drive you a little crazy where you know you're not actually crazy, but you start to do things like a crazy person would because you're just like you get so out of it. like go out on your way

like like like a little outbreak on the way no like just like outburst I mean definitely you have like no patience but no you just start to you just start to like not think rationally because you're just like so frustrated it's human suffering is only sustainable for a bracketed period of time

but to me TMS but the tension I think myosis syndrome is that what it's it used to be tension myocitis syndrome and he he evolved it later on to be tension myoneural syndrome so that's kind of what we're using these days But to me, I just understand it as like, you had something painful happen. You can't handle it in the mind or you didn't handle it in the mind.

So you repress it. And then now that pain is in different, it manifests in different areas of the body. We invest so much in our routines. Skin care, supplements, workouts. But hair care is the one thing most people kind of just default on. Totally. I used to grab whatever shampoo was in the shower. Then I switched to the red can acidic grow full system, which is designed for thin or flat hair.

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and it was such a hit. It's designed for kids. It's designed for kids. ages 1 to 12 plus and it could not be easier for them to choose their own song and story. He chose a story. It was so cute. He got to choose what he listened to. He felt like he had control over it. I have control. I'm like a co-pilot through the Tony app where I can control the playback and set volume limits and access the content library. It's designed for independent listening. It's made to go wherever they go. And to me, it's no screen. So it's awesome. I think it comes most in handy when I'm doing something like working or Zaz's at an activity and Towns needs something to do. And Zaza also likes it too. I love that there's no Wi-Fi and I love that there's no screen.

They also have a sleeper timer which makes winding down easier. And once you've played your Tonys for the first time, you can listen any time. Go to Tonys. That's T-O-N-I-E-S.com to check out Tony Box Light. Mahjohn is all the rage. Like, I cannot believe it. We are seeing it everywhere. And a big part of that is thanks to, oh, my mahjon. Let me tell you about this brand. It's completely reimagined the centuries old game. I first saw their beautiful high quality mahjong tiles on Claude and Jackie's Instagram story. They did like a collab with them. They had a party with Oh my Majan. You know Claudia and Jackie from the toast and they love their mahjong. It was like wild how beautiful the mahjong was. I was like, wow, someone's really pain.

attention to an aesthetic. Mahjong is a really great way to have a game that requires you to put down your phone, focus, think, I am in the midst of learning how to play. Michael wants to learn. We even might get our kids a teacher. That's how much we're looking into it. I think it's a fun way to find a new hobby. And if you're looking for the most gorgeous, aesthetically pleasing, high quality, Majon tiles, mats, rakes, and accessories, you have to check out this brand. They're have a network two of more than 2,000 teachers across the country who can teach you and your friends how to play. They also have books and a YouTube series. They make it accessible for anyone who wants to learn. exclusively for Bostic listeners, Oh My Majan is offering 10% off your first purchase.

Visit Omimajon.com and use Code Skinny at checkout for 10% off. That's O-H-M-A-H-M-A-H-J-O-N-G.com. Code Skinny for 10% off your first order. So Nicole, when he tells you this and he throws your papers away in the metal trash can, what do you take on of this? Are you listening to him? You know, those moments where you're open because you are so ready. You know, I love to call, you know, people are like the gift of desperation and they call it God. Like, you know, like, what's it going to take? I was there. I wouldn't have read the book if I wasn't there too. Yeah.

I was like, I did everything. Okay. And so this is what you guys are going to hear. hear for me as we have this conversation that my entire effort these days professionally is raising the bottom because there are so many people suffering that don't need to get to that point where it's so debilitating that they are desperate and that is truly my mission in life at this point in addition to many other things about like basically elevating, you know, the human condition because of all the wisdom that exists in this work. So what do you do after this appointment? Okay, so that's the best part of the story, even though it was such a shameful part for a really long time.

So he says to me, the best way to make the unconscious conscious, because that's what you have to do in order to stop the nervous system from protecting you from your own feelings is a great way to do it is to journal. Now, I cannot tell you the way I felt inside. First of all, I was like, you've got to be kidding me. First of all, it was like the most expensive appointment that I've ever gone to because he didn't take insurance and he was so expensive because nobody in medicine at that time referred to him. So he like had he couldn't take any like he had to cultivate his own entire practice. It was very expensive. Second of all, it was ridiculous to me that I am here in debilitating pain. I'm telling this man I can't take care of my children.

I'm in despair and he's like, you should journal. And I was like, okay, buddy. And I really like cursed him in my mind, but I'm a good student and I was desperate. And so he explained to me a little of the science, as best as he had words for it at the time, because the randomized controlled studies have caught up now. So I have so much at my disposal that he didn't have. But he explained to me sort of like the way you're explaining it. And he said, if you journal, you will bring these thoughts up and you won't be defended against them.

So I go home and I'm like making my lists, okay? Like childhood, like all my playing my tapes of all the woe is me, my parents divorce, the lack of money, the moving around, I've got all that. And then I have daily life, which is like the kids and, you know, my marriage and whatever. And then personality characteristics are the third list, which is like perfectionistic, goodness, want to be seen as it like a person that helps others, your own worst critic, blah, blah, blah, Okay? So I make these lists and I'm going down the list and I'm journaling and it feels like a whole lot of nothing. It truly feels like this is the biggest load of crap. I cannot believe that this is my only option at this point short of like catastrophic surgery. And then I put motherhood at the top of the page and I just didn't want to write about it. And when I teach and when I lead all these retreats, I say to people, when you're looking at your life and you see that thing and you're like not that, that. So I start transcribing. what my life is. I have two kids, two babies and cribs, two babies and diapers. I wasn't planning to have

the second one so soon, but I had little fertility stuff with the first. So like we thought it would take longer, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I felt something like rising. And it honestly felt the most, like the most unwelcome. It almost felt like you're when you're going to throw up. And like, you know you're going to throw up. And like the last thing you want to do is throw up. You're like, I'll do anything. That's how it felt. It felt like something was rising. And I just had this moment, call it spiritual, call it whatever you want, where I was like, no, I don't freaking care. I have to go wherever. And I wrote the first line of journal speak ever penned, which was, I hate being a mother, I'm totally failing, I hate my kids. I am trapped and I'm never getting out of this

and I'm fucking dying in here. And I start writing and I stop. I have chills all over my body every freaking time I tell the story because it's like, it was the most powerful admission. And I sat there and I was like, let's fucking go. And I just started journal speaking, which became journal speak, okay? And I start telling this story of myself. And quickly I came to this moment where I'm like, wait a second, wait a second. That doesn't feel true. Like I actually don't hate this.

What's up with me? And it went right at my parents. You know, fuck those guys and they did all this stuff. And they were so irresponsible and like really let them have it. But what was interesting and this doesn't happen. all the time, but it's just what happened to me, is I did come to a place eventually, I don't know how long I was writing, of compassion for them because they really were loving people, but they were fucked up in their own right, right? That's how people are. But then something happened. Oh,

and then I went at myself, the self-loathing, the like, what are you joking? You can't do this. Have you seen the morons out there being parents? Like you, you, this person who you find to be, you think highly of yourself, you can't do this. And then something happened. And this is the magic of journal speak. And you are going to get there. And you're back pain is going to go away, and it's not always revelatory, it's just something. I had a realization that if you had had my hand on a stack of Bibles, I could not have told you. I really didn't know it. I remembered that when I was around 11, I made this sacred, solemn promise to myself, which is, these people are a mess. I was an only child and my parents were all the things.

And I'm like, one day, I'm going to get out from under these people and I'm going to have my own children, and it is going to be magical. And I am going to be Mother Earth. And my babies, who are going to look exactly like me, are going, because I was always sad and have a sibling, no one looks like me, are going to stare up at me with their big brown eyes. And it's going to heal the wounds of this childhood. So you essentially thought, which a lot of us do, that you could make up for the gaps in your parents' poor parenting. Not only that, I literally had magical thinking that this was going to heal the wounds of my childhood. Got it.

Literally, like, it was that deep. Uh-huh. And I just sat there with, like, literal, like, tears in my eyes, but also, like, tremendous compassion for, like, a 32-year-old woman with two children, like, so lost. Like, I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I was trying so hard. And I woke up the next morning. My back pain was 80% gone, never to return.

And I was like, I have hit on something. And I just journal spoke. I was like, what else can I tell the ridiculous truth? about and I took things on my list. They don't stay true. They morph and they morph and you throw it out when you're done. So no one sees it. No one ever sees it and no one's ever meant to see it because journal speak is a living document that transforms your body but doesn't stay true because the thing is I never hated my kids. I hated that I was failing because I wasn't solving the main thing I promised myself I would solve, which is to heal the wounds of my sweet 11 year old self sad at night

listening to my parents' fight. It was such a revelation in that sense. And I eliminated all of my back pain, never to return. My kids are 24, 22, and 18. My youngest one just went to college. So I am literally two weeks into empty nest. One day it will happen to you. And it is the craziest ride what my life has been because I didn't parent them through the lens of my own dysfunction. It's almost like you have all of this stuff in your brain and the only way to emote it is to get it out on paper. And when it's out on paper, you can like move on. It changes your nervous system. It sounds like getting it out also helps you discover stuff that you may not be aware of.

Exactly. Because you just get, you go down this path. You start pulling one thread and then it makes you remember other things and then other things. Then you get it. It basically comes out. 100%. Think about your camera roll. Okay. We all take a ridiculous number of pictures because now we have these phones in our hands. Do you ever like scroll through your camera roll and be like, oh my God, those are like 50 amazing pictures? Why did I never do anything with them? We don't remember. I do the other thing. I'm like, what the hell of those pictures? Whatever. And we don't remember. We don't know so much of ourselves. Our brain only has the capacity to inform us about what's most important. And sadly, what's most important in front of us is usually something bad, according to our.

our brain because through the lens of neuroscience, we are literally built to remember the bad so we don't re-endure ourselves emotionally or physically. Quick break to talk about Wayfair. This company is incredible. We've grown to love them. And it's because they have absolutely everything when it comes to home decor, home accessories, utensils, whatever it may be that you need in the house. And one of the things that we're loving right now as a family is they have an incredible

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I never did the journal stuff because I just I went through the book and I'm open to the journal stuff. But what I found after reading it and you said bringing the consciousness like the subconscious to the conscious. Yes. I notice if ever my back starts to hurt I can catch it quickly. I'm like oh no, that's me because I'm having these bad thoughts or them repressing this thing.

And right when I catch it, it goes away again. So what do you think your migraines are from, though? You do get migraines. So I have been, so with those, I've had them my whole life. I have to look into what I think they started happening when I was a kid. And I'm trying to work on that. But what I've gotten better with those now is similar to the back painting. I'm like, oh, there's something here that I need to find that I'm reprim.

I know it sounds very woo-woo and strange. No, it actually, you know, here's the thing, guys. And this is the thing that like really is exciting about the moment that we're in. It did sound woo-woo and strange. To me, when I heard about it, and honestly, you guys, I'm 25 years into this career. Do you know how many years I have had to be like, I know it sounds that way, but let me talk about it. Now with the advances in neuroscience, I can explain to you, and I will if you'd like exactly why the pain channels. And then you realize, not only is it's not woo-woo, Dr. Sarno used to say, my methods are more scientific than surgery.

And now over and over again, what we're finding is people in significant back pain because they're doing these randomized controlled studies out of Harvard. I'm connected with a physician there who we're going to start a study soon on my work, which I'm really excited about. They're finding that the surgery is statistically significantly less effective than these techniques. And so it's actually, you're going to be psyched, not woo-woo at all anymore. Why do you think that people have a pushback to you that it's woo-woo? because to me it's almost like it's too easy your method for them to take on to believe it's real. Because I think a lot of people, one, a lot of people, especially these days, are very like, if it's not doctor stamped and doctor approved, there's not an exact medical reason you can point to,

they just, they write things off right. We've just lived through a lot of those years. But I also think, like, people get really funny about their trauma and their pain. You can never understand my trauma. You can never understand my pain. You don't get it. It's different for me than it is. Like, I think a lot of people, like, we hang on to those things that becomes part of our identity.

And if it's as simple as saying, you know, maybe you're repressing other things in your life and you're creating this pain for yourself. I think that's a really hard thing for a lot of people to face. It's very hard. So, Lauren, the answer to your question, the first easiest answer is because I use the word emotions because you have to use the word emotions because that is the only way that we experience feeling in any way. But when people hear that, they think woo-woo or light or simple. However, I think that Michael, it's kind of like both of you guys have hit on exactly why. It's that and it's the fact that we hold on to our stories as sacred because there are so many parts of us that have been completely exiled. When you're growing up, let's say you were bullied or let's say I had a very, very critical father. So although I loved him deeply, I also hated him deeply and I also feared him and I also was desperate to please him. So like all those things had to coexist in my experience of him. When I first understood this, I think the reason why it offended me or why I didn't take it

seriously is there is an unconscious resistance that comes when it feels like anything you're going to do is going to discard like these parts that have already been discarded by others. And that sounds woo-woo, but quite frankly, once again, it's straight science. But people are also addicted to their narrative. their inner narrative. And I can say this to my own. I noticed what I got cranial sacral the other day in my neck pain that I always have went away. And I almost, this is so weird. I almost was like, where's my neck pain? I know. Like it was an old friend. I like wanted the neck pain back. I'm like, what kind of fucked up individual wants the neck pain back? It's almost like I'm addicted to having the

neck pain because it's a story of the car accident and I'm addicted to the story. Do you know what I mean? Not only do I know what you mean, you guys don't understand. You are the most normal person on the planet. It's not weird. I work with thousands and thousands of people around the world, and I will tell you that part of the story. Like, you're so clear that you can even know that. You're already 10 steps ahead.

Because people don't understand that. They think, but I wanted it gone. And they don't understand that there are two things that can coexist. You can feel like something did care for you. And you can say, with grace, I'm ready to let it go. But that is a very normal thing and another thing. So I teach retreats all over the country, but we teach every summer at the Omega Institute in New York.

And we were once at an Omega retreat. And this girl, God, she must have been like 19, 20 years old. She was so sweet and so young. And she picked up the microphone and she said, I need to admit something. And we were like, yes, the whole million, many, many people. And she said, I'm scared to get well because I need my suffering to have mattered. And it was like, oh my God. Like if that's the thing you think you're giving up, of course there are people who are abused, neglected.

They've witnessed war. Like, I mean, if your suffering didn't matter and somehow this pain is holding space for that, you can understand why like unconsciously people don't want to let it go. Is there a pain that cannot be fixed by journal speak? So let's talk about TMS because I think people like Michael and me, when you get even, evangelical about this stuff, it's really hard not to feel like anything can be fixed. So here's what I'll say. There's a difference between acute pain and chronic pain. We all know what it's like to get injured, right? So if you tear your ACL, I'm not going to tell you to do journal speak. In fact, I'm not going to tell anyone to do anything until they get fully medically checked out. Like my first question is, have you been to the doctor? Have you had all the tests? If I break my arm right now, you're not going to say, think your way through it. Correct. It's going to be broken. It will be broken and that will be that. And you will need to get.

whatever you need to get done. However, there is an agreed upon medical healing time for pretty much anything that you can injure. And once it is, and like let's say you severed nerves, there's an, you know, I love Western medicine. Let's not get me wrong. Like I love antibiotics. I love like I'm not against anything that helps. But my people that come to me in droves are either told, we can't find anything wrong with you, which is a really upsetting diagnosis. really suffering or we can find something wrong with you. You have a bulging disc. You have an L1, L2, whatever all these things are. You have a CBO, you know, so that's like something that is involved in IBS. You have or stomach discomfort. You have, you know, a history of migraines because it runs

in your family, whatever it is. Which, by the way, as it relates to back pain, one of the things I was interesting in the book is they said, like, if you're an adult male or female, like there's a very high likelihood that the majority of the population has issues with their disc. Just degenerative disease as you age. So if a lot of people have that, they're not in pain, like, why? And to your point, one thing the book also points out is, you know, there is a trigger where you could have had a car accident or I could have actually injured my back, but to your point, then you heal, but you hang on to the injury. And it's like you have this phantom pain that lingers long after the actual injury as the physical injury is actually healed.

100%. And I want to answer your question so I don't leave it hanging. What does TM? What does journal speak not fix. Acute injury needs to be dealt with with whatever the medical system is. So that's a side. They say, so in 12-step recovery, I don't know if you guys have ever heard all the stuff about 12-step recovery, they say there are certain people that are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. We know these people. You've encountered them. And I don't mean people who are blocked or people who are stuck in their loop. I mean, we know these people. like significantly personality disordered, people who are, like, their narcissism is so great that they can't humble themselves or be vulnerable even by themselves in a journal speak practice.

It's not that there are things that journal speak can't shift. I think more often there are people that are not open to understanding, even wanting to understand the real science behind it. So they can dismiss it as woo or they can dismiss it as like too good to be true or whatever. So there's that situation. And then there are things that are just systemic. So for example, I was once giving a book talk in L.A. And a woman came up to me at the end of the talk and she said, I was diagnosed with breast cancer today. And I said, oh my God, you know, I'm so sorry.

And she goes, and I gave it to myself. And I said, okay, I'm like, let's not go there. I said, but say more. Like, what are you saying? And she said, I just know how I've lived, stressed about everything, like controlling beyond. never letting anything be okay. She's like, I feel like I gave this to myself. And I said, listen, I never, ever would say that.

But the energy of what you're saying has a kernel of truth in it, which is our immune systems are significantly affected, as we all know, by our levels of stress. When you live years and years and years with repressed emotions, even if they're coming out in migraines and back pain and stomach stuff, the immune system will be open to things that it wouldn't have maybe been open to.

at an earlier age. And so I don't think my work can cure cancer, but I do think it can prevent it. And I think that, so the answer your question basically is, if you have a diagnosis, let is already gone too far. Cancer, ALS, like things that are so severe, I can help people. And I have helped people unwind things like rheumatoid arthritis and different autoimmune diseases. But like, I'm not here as a fix-all, save-all, but I would say, like, I would say, like 98% of the population can be significantly helped by this work. Let's take a quick break to talk about one of our favorite longtime partners. That is just thrive. Here's the thing. You can dial in your sleep, your workouts, your supplements, your morning

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You said unwind. I unwind when I'm in cranial sacral, and cranial sacral is telling Michael, this is when your body heals itself. Is there a correlation between unwinding the fascia where the trauma is and what you do? Absolutely. It's very in keeping because the theory is the same. It's essentially you're going to quiet down and you're going to go into something that's tied like a knot and gently loosen it and make space for like in journal speak it would be make space for introspection. But like the body needs space because I unwind myself. Like I unwind on her table and put myself in these weird positions.

The simplification again like if I was just talking to people who are not, if they want to call themselves not woo-woo, The simplification to me is whatever method helps you work through whatever you're repressing and bring it to the surface and get it out of your body either so you're not focused on it or it's not in your subconscious, you're not stressed all the time. Like whatever method that is is good and will largely alleviate a lot of potential pains or symptoms you're having in other areas of body. Like that's how I think about it. And that is a correct thing.

But let me say one thing about cranial sacral. And every method that is a legitimately helpful, positive method, The reason why I think this actual work, and I'll say journal speak, but like mind-body work in general is even more effective and expansive because we're looking at constriction versus expansion, right? And we all need it all. Like think about the way a jellyfish swims, the way it like constricts itself and then expands. And like that's how it moves forward. We're all like that.

And so the thing with this work is not only will it really enduringly change your experience of having pain in your body, which cranial sacral can also help. It makes space for epiphany that literally leads you to like take off the winter coat on the 100 degree day. Like people don't realize what they're walking around with. There is so much to be changed. And then it's like your whole life changes. It's ease in parenting. It's ease in relationships. It's ease professionally. It's ease with yourself. You stop hating your body. Like it's wild. what power starts coming into your life when you understand what your nervous system has been doing to protect you. Let me ask you this. Is writing it down the same as if I wanted to go on my notes app and talk it out? Is that the same thing or is it different?

It's a question we get a lot. So essentially, here's what I'll say. I think writing is the best thing and I'll tell you why. Because even if you're typing, even if you're typing on your phone or if you're handwriting, it slows you down and it makes space for those moments of, of like the 11-year-old sacred promise that I don't know if I would have gotten to if I was speaking. Having said that, people come to me and they're like, I have carpal tunnels so badly I can't type.

I don't like to ruin my manicure. But what if you just typed off your thumbs on your phone? Do that ruin your manicure? Let me see your nails. No, no, no. I thought you, so you don't have to write it. Whatever slows you down to like write it? I can't even write it.

I can't even handwrite anymore. Okay, so you're typing it, so I don't have to ruin my nails. Totally. Okay. Yeah. Like I'm imagining. myself with a quill. I might not be Teresa Caputo, but I like my nails and I do not want to ruin them. Okay, so you're typing on the phone. I did. That's why I was saying it because her nails, like you,

somebody said, how do you change a diaper? I'm like, how do you wipe? I don't want to ask that question, but yeah, I think we're all thinking it. Yeah. High achievers, perfectionists, people who are people pleasers. Yes. Why are they in chronic pain? Okay. So I want you to picture in your mind. We all have these nice little glasses of water, a clear science speaker that lives between like your belly button and your chest. And this is your emotional reservoir. And there are many inputs to the reservoir, but let's call out the five big ones that nobody wants to talk about over drinks. Grief, shame, rage, despair, and terror. Okay. These are the five biggies. So you might like have a drink with a friend and be like, I'm so pissed off. But you're not going to sit there and be like,

I'm blind with rage. You know, it's like we take the like, top level of acceptable. Have a drink with me. Right, right, right. I'm just kidding. It's okay. Like, or like, oh, God, I'm like, I'm just like, you know, I'm really sad about that. Like, whatever, I'm fine, which is, or I'm drowning in grief.

I can't get over this relationship. Everybody's sick of hearing me talk about my ex. Like, these are things that we bank. So just picture the reservoir. So here's what happens. Every human being has this, by the way. This has nothing to do with chronic pain. This is a reality of being alive.

When your reservoirs, where hits maximum density, which maximum capacity. I was corrected once by a scientist. It's not density. It's capacity. And threatens to overflow. Here's what happens. By the way, this is scientific verified fact. Your nervous system goes into a state of heightened and sustained fighter flight because the overwhelm of emotions and most specifically the things that your brain perceives you can't control. Right. So if you have a problem that actually has steps for a solution, your brain is actually decently fine with that. But when the problem is like your mother or your child or your self-worth, these are

impossible to solve for. So the brain starts spinning like where's the solution? Where's the solution? It doesn't exist in the actual problem because the problem is too complex and vague. So what happens is in this fighter flight state, the human brain needs to look for a place to protect its human. So like if you think about it, in early humanity when we were like coming and becoming a species, if you were to run from a predator

and you were to step in a hole and break your ankle, and this is also scientific fact, you will run on that broken ankle with no pain until you reach perceived safety, right? You're in a cave, you don't think the thing can get to you. Then your ankle's going to explode in pain because whatever, the brain will do whatever is adaptive for the survival of the human being. So the brain can giveth pain and take it away. It's why you pass out when you get in a traumatic car accident, your body, your brain shuts off the pain. Exactly. And I have so many examples of that that are incredibly profound. So essentially what happens when the reservoir starts to overflow, you go into this chronic

fighter flight state and the brain goes into action. Number one responsibility for your primitive nervous system is to keep you alive, right? It's the reason we pull our hand off a hot stove. The reason you jump out of the way if something's coming at your head. You do it without thinking. So in that same exact reflex that would save you from burning your hand, the brain decides where can I channel something? And the reason that oftentimes it comes where there is a normal abnormality like my spondylolis thesis, which never was the reason for my pain, or a bulging disc, or migraines that you've had since childhood, is it's a neural pathway that's already formed. The brain will always use the path of least resistance. So when it goes to that neural

pathway, what do you do? You believe it. So the first thing you do is you're in pain. So it stops you in your tracks. You're no longer thinking about your mother, your body image, your kid. You're thinking about, oh my God, I have to do something about this because I can't live with this. Now the brain is happy because you have a plan. Even if the plan is just cancel your plans, you know, call into work, start Google, doctor Googling for like specialists, it's actually an actionable plan. And that's why people get stuck in chronic pain because the brain would actually, it's a safer space to keep you than dealing with the complexity of your emotions,

which is why when you journal speak and you slow down and you lay it all out and then you throw it all out little by slowly, it's like putting a ladle in the reservoir and dumping it out. And as it gets down, nobody's ever gonna empty the reservoir, like hello, it's like we're human beings. But when it gets below the surface, your pain signals, your inflammation,

your muscle constriction, spasm and neuropathy, stop firing. It is like a fucking miracle. But it's not a miracle. It's neuroscience. Why did Michael have such a profound experience with TMS if he didn't do journal speak? I will tell you. And this is why a lot of people get very enraged about the book cure, people.

But I'm going to hopefully help expand your lens because the migraines are on their way out. And it's because they're exactly the same if you're open to it. Sure. Definitely it would do it. When you read a book or hear a podcast or something, somebody's going to listen to our episode today and their pain is going to be eliminated that day. And I'll tell you why. Because something's going to click for them and they're going to move from fight or flight

to rest and repair. Your nervous system is not an emotional system. It's a reflex. It's either the switch is up or the switch is down. When you're safe, the pain signals are unnecessary because they're only there to protect you from that which is unsafe. So even though he still probably had plenty in his reservoir, remember, much of our reservoir is I'm upset that I'm in pain. I'm upset because I'm future casting and pre-grieving about what that's going to mean for my life.

What? Am I not going to be able to work out? Well, then I'm not going to be attractive. You were saying you needed surgery. I was like, that's what people say. People do say that. I mean, that's what doctors would say. That's what people say.

You get x-rays. The problem is with this like, then they told her the same thing that you need surgery. That's what they do. Yeah. And it's crazy. And I have to tell you, and I say this with real respect for doctors, because like I said, I'm a big fan. Doctors who are just doing surgery left and right for orthopedic stuff, it's borderline irresponsible

because these, I mean, I have leagues of people that have come through my door and have had not only no help from that surgery, but sometimes they have more problems. Why I had a breakthrough with the book. It's funny enough, he says in the book that you actually likely don't need to read the whole book, a funny thing to say in a book. Right, right. About your own book. What's frustrating a little bit about the book is in the beginning, they just keep going on and on and on about TMS. It's like over explaining. I barely even remember the book, but I believe you. It just goes on and on and you're like, why is it? It's like beating a dead horse almost. Like what the thing, you spend like

basically the whole first half. But what you realize is like once you understand what he's saying, that's the click. And when you get the click, then you're like, oh, that's what I have. That's what I'm doing. And that makes you feel safe. And that also makes you rational. It, it, it also makes you understand what you're doing with the symptoms. Yes. And as soon as my brain clicked and made that crossover, then I didn't need the book anymore. That's what happened. Yes.

So that's the answer. Some people, maybe I'm hardheaded. It clicks for some people like seven pages. It took me like half the thing. Let me tell you something. You are not at all hardheaded. Many people read the book and mine and listen to every episode of my podcast and do the journal speak.

And they haven't yet had the shift because it depends on openness and willingness. Because the nervous system, I think an important thing to say here that would really help both of you kind of like land the plane about this is that your perception is your reality and that is not like a woo-boo thing to say like it's funny I had an experience this morning so I flew in this morning from L.A. And I'm sitting there and the flight attendant is standing right in front of me. And it was one of the people from like the ground crew and she's got several boarding passes in her hand and she's looking through them and she's looking up looking through them looking up. And I thought to myself she's probably figuring out who to move to first class, which is what she was doing.

But then I thought to myself, what if I was a fugitive? What if I was an illegal immigrant? What if I was someone who was like almost out of there? You know, I'm on the plane. I obviously have a creative imagination. And I looked at this person flipping through, looking up, I would be in a state of abject terror. And what happens when you're in terror is all the systems in your body start to move

to keep you fighting and fleeing and freezing, right? circulation, heart rate, respiration, elimination, digestion, all change in that moment preparing you to fight, flee, or freeze. I was like, I hope it gets chosen for first class. But that was my perception. But if I was a different situation, I might have had a constricted stomach, a dry mouth, trouble breathing, like all the things that would be happening

because I'm preparing to fight for my life, you know, ostensibly. So the thing that people need to realize is, whatever it takes to move you from fight or flight to rest and repair is what brings down the reservoir. So although journal speak I find in my many years of practice, both in myself and many, many clients and people around the world, is very effective vehicle in itself. It's not the solution. It's like it's helpful because it helps get the reservoir down. But for Michael, the reservoir was significantly lowered by understanding TMS, by thinking this applies to me. me, right? This is me. And by having all that shit that was taking up space, meaning, am I doomed? Am I

going to need surgery? What does this mean for my life? Like, all those things were immediately removed because he already knew he wasn't going to have the surgery. So that's why that happened. I think also you like get to a place, I think you have to almost get to a place where you surrender because you do, like I was doing all the physical therapy and I was saying all the doctors. That really helps to surrender. And I was and finally, I was like, well, basically none of these methods are helping me and I'm not helping myself. So like I'm open to whatever else is out there that potentially. And I look at it as like if I haven't been able to figure out if somebody out there has a better solution, like that's why that's the place I got to. And that's, and I think when I got there,

if I would have read that book in the beginning when the pain happened, I would have discarded it. That's the thing. It's funny. I published a sub-sac yesterday. And the title is what happened when I asked AI if it was going to kill us all because I used it as a vehicle for helping people understand what radical acceptance is and how if you can just bring yourself to alignment. It doesn't mean you have to like it. Acceptance does an equal agreement. But understanding that here we are and what's coming is coming, whatever it is, not that we know, is the way to regulate. And so the reason I'm thinking about that is the whole, there's a whole piece of the article about brain's predictive structure. And when you're not predicting anymore that you are going to be, you know,

in some sort of despairing situation, it changes you. I have the symptoms that you're to whenever I have to give blood. Everything you just described about the fugitive happens to me. I have a visceral reaction like someone has done something horrible to me and they're going to take my blood. But if you think about it, you tell everyone you have vasovagal. Is that how you say it? So I wonder what you think about that.

But you have a narrative in your head that like, I have the narrative. You have a full narrative about why you can't do that. Okay. So your perception is your reality. I can't speak to. I mean, did you have a traumatic blood drug experience? I can't remember. Must have been something.

I mean, you know, maybe I should journal speak about it. You will find great insights into yourself. And even if it's just self-compassion, because here's the thing, we are the most unself-compassionate, like, I guess I'll say America, because I don't know, maybe Eastern religions are better. But like, we are just, like, we just beat the shit out of ourselves, left, right, and center all the time. and that is like bailing out a boat with a hole in the bottom, right? You're doing all this work, whatever it is. You can be journal speaking, cranial sacral breath work, you know, whatever food you're putting in your body, exercise.

But if you're constantly telling yourself that was a fail, you're terrible, whatever, it's just adding to the reservoir. And so that's another reason why journal speak will loosen that, like in that cranial sacral metaphor, because there's something going on when you give blood. I don't know if you expect more from yourself or you're like get it together, sis, like you have to be, you know, like good or I don't know. But something's in there that you might not be aware of that's happening. And it is causing you to have a mini panic attack, which is essentially what you're describing. Okay. So I'm in a journal speak about that. I want to go to John Sarno. Yes. Let's do it. After you had this epiphany with your own body. Yes. How did you go back to Dr. Sarno and how did he, involve himself in your life moving forward. Yeah. So I, um, I had my first like crazy journal speak. And I called him and I said, you're never going to believe it. And he goes, try me. And it's like, I've totally taken up the mantle because that's what people say to me all the time. And,

um, and I said, I can't freaking believe this. I said, you're stupid journaling. I'm like, I got to something and I am feeling like so much better. And he's like, yep, that's how it works. He was so nonplussed about everything. Like, have you ever seen a photo of him? I've only seen that on the book. Okay. He was Italian through and through. He was probably standing up as straight as possible 5'5. He wore the long lab coat, so it went down to like the bottom of his ankles. It was hilarious. He was just such a character and he was very gruff. Like you could tell he was full of love, but he was not having any of anyone's bullshit. Like one of my great stories is one of the women who has been like very transformed by my work. It's been on my podcast a couple of times. She once told me the story

the first time she saw Dr. Sarno. She drove into the city from Rye. She was lying in the backseat of her car. She could not sit. She could never sit. Her husband had to drive her. She gets in. She's standing with her hands on the back of the seat and Dr. Sarno sitting at his desk and he says, have a seat. And she goes, oh, no, no, you don't understand Dr. Sarno. I can't sit. He goes, if you can't sit, I can't help you. Like this was his personality. And you know what? She sat the fuck down and they talked. And by the end of the appointment, her back pain was like 75% gone. Now, that was not even slightly the end of her story. And I don't want anyone leaving this episode thinking that like Michael is the breed standard because I can't

have people feeling ashamed of themselves if they listen to the episode or read the book and like they're not well because it is an evolving process. I'm only just saying what happened to me specifically and personally. I like I don't prescribe to do anything for anyone. I'm just that this was my experience. And that's why I say my journal speak story is like, that's my experience. Not everyone is going to come to some crazy revelation in their first journal speak.

But all that to say, I called him up. And I said, this has been, like, I get it. I get it. And I said, use me. I want to be of service. I'm like, I'm young. I'm a therapist. I'm educated.

I'm a good public speaker. And he was like, come on in. And we started lecturing together at NYU. And that was the beginning. And I did it with him for years. And I would meet with him in his office. I was even slated to take over the program when he retired, but his wife who was so sweet, they had the best marriage, like, just like super in love in their 80s, said, I won't let you

pass the baton to Sarno because she's like, you won't be able to keep yourself from going. Like, he needed to slow down. He was in his 80s and he needed to slow down, like, for his health. And she was like, so basically I was going to carry on the program and I didn't. What did you see throughout your experience with him? that would blow people's mind. Well, it's less about what I saw in my experience with him and more once I started my practice and started doing the work with people myself.

Okay. I mean, you want some stories? Yeah, let's do it. Oh, my God. Okay. Let's talk about Natalie. So Natalie had head and facial pain so severe. And she had just graduated from college and she had just gotten into vet school.

And it was like, I think it started as a migraine, but then it landed in her face. and she was diagnosed with every headache, new daily persistent headache, migraine disorder, whatever, a lot of diagnoses. The parents had money. They flew her around the country, different in-hospital stays, experimental treatments, every drug you can imagine, IV therapy. They flew her out to South Africa, and she was doing this experimental treatment with a dentist in South Africa who was going through her mouth and severing the nerves in her head.

Okay, like, not-so stuff. didn't work, still in pain. They flew her back to the States. She was living in the Midwest, and she was on suicide watch. I mean, she was like a 22-year-old girl with, like, a really bright future, and she was, like, losing her hair. She was emaciated. And through one of the physicians that in my network that I work with, he was at Northwestern at the time, he contacted me. And he's like, I have a doozy.

I'm like, do you want it? And I'm like, bring it on. Because I am like here for that. They flew her to, like, basically, she's staying. in the hotel in the building with my office and I saw her like several hours a week for two weeks loaded it all in explained it she was doing her journal speak every day she was like coming down from the hotel in between my clients and like reporting to me I don't like to give a timeline because people will then be like so and so got well and so it was however long a small period of time

or a long one um she began that school in the fall she thought she was going to need like all these accommodations, note takers, whatever, if she even went at all, nothing. And she is now, my God, I mean, it's been about 10, 12 years. She's completely pain free. She's married. She has a baby and she's an emergency vet. Did you get to the route through journal speak of what was bothering her? Well, yeah, but it's not like bothering her. But yes, it's like very intense childhood stuff and parent stuff. And you know what? For her bigger than even the childhood trauma, because we all have it was very severe misalignment with her body. Like she wasn't anorexic, but she was definitely like a hater,

but like a hater to such an extreme that if she gained like two pounds, it was like she was in serious danger, like she was being hunted by a lion. And listen, most women can relate to these feelings about body image and stuff. And so she was like, that was a very big part of just admitting that and like working through it and just bringing the unconscious conscious. So it's almost simple. It's like if your brain and your nervous system are protecting you from these dark thoughts,

but you just think and feel the dark thoughts and it's like, oh, wait, it's not a predator, the pain is not necessary anymore. Before you go, someone listening, they're in pain. What are you prescribing specifically when it comes to journal speak tomorrow for them? Okay. So I have a theory of my work in that it's like three legs of a stool. So picture a three-legged stool. Without one of the legs, the stool will not stand.

And the three legs are believe. Under believe is like neuroscience education. Read the book. Listen to the podcast. Like do what you need to do to educate yourself exactly what happened to Michael after that, you know, excessive TMS chapters where you're like, I get it. Right. That's the first leg of the stool. The second leg of the stool is do the work, which is the journal speak practice. 20 minutes a day followed by 10 minutes of some sort of compassionate meditation. You choose like I don't really care. That's a 30 minute practice a day. It is not a life sentence. I know Elizabeth probably said the same thing to you. You don't have to do it for the rest of your life just until you get your reservoir down and you feel the relief. And then it's like a tool in your toolkit. Like reach for it whenever you want. And the third leg of the stool is self-compassion.

Something that I used to think was so cheesy and boring and unnecessary and like really it never occurred to me that had any value until I was years and years in practice with these people realizing why I'm always like a detective. I look at a person before me. Why isn't the person getting better? missing and oftentimes it was this just like relentless self-criticism and like shitting all over ourselves I should have done that I should have done that like whatever people do when those three legs are solid you will in time you got to allow your nervous system to regulate right it took you

30 years to walk into the woods you're not going to walk out in three weeks but like so that's the prescription in terms of journal speak I'll give you I'll tell you honestly I had a book come last year it's called mind your body i'm not doing this to sell books i'm doing this because literally it's 20 years of best practices case studies every instruction you will need in one place so i suggest you either read or listen to the book i'll read it to you you know and the three things in the journal speak you mentioned them earlier are what what and what the three lists yep childhood and childhood could also be past stressors because if like people start this work at 70 they're like okay childhood ended where so you can say my dad turns

on the lights first thing in the morning before I woke up and blasted the AC. I actually like the lights on and the AC going. Okay, go ahead. But if it was traumatic at the time, that would go on your list. The second list is Daily Life, which basically is the member, I would say, is the name of every member of your family. It is everything that you can think of that is a real thing, meaning like finances or career stress, but it's also on that list, that time at the grocery store where that guy was

such a dick. Like whatever it is that's like continuing to loop in your brain or like that conversation I need to have with my sister. Like whatever it is, that goes on the daily life list. It's bulleted and just expand your mind. What could possibly be in that reservoir? And then the third is just listing out those personality characteristics. And that is a great way to start. And also on my website, we have a free journal speak guide. So people can get that. What do you mean by I don't really get the last one. Like personality characteristics. Perfectionist type A high achiever. How are you described? My own worst critic, codependent, like I'm not okay unless other people are okay. To overly worrying, anxious. Yeah, things like that.

Where can everyone find you on Instagram and your book? The website is nicole sacks.com. Easy is that. The book is called Mind Your Body. Get it anywhere you read books or listen to books. I will read it to you. My Instagram is at Nicole Sacks, LCSW. And at the website, you could find, I mean, we created it. We read it. We read did the whole thing last year. My partner, Lisa and I, as like a hub. So it's like, if you want one-on-one coaching, it's there. If you want membership where I literally meet with people all over the world and answer their questions, it's there. Um, any, like, there's just so many free resources there as well. My back pain, we're going to journal speak. I'm crazy, Lauren, but I'm not that crazy.

See? What? Are you kidding? I love this woo-woo shit. Are you, Michael, no offense. I just let's let let the record state that when she was going through this. I'm going. I I said, take Louise Hay's book. In it is a list of every single body part and how you got what you got. So I'm just making this that maybe the paternal is attached to the right hip. The maternal is attached to the left hip. For me, I've had problems with my feet. And that's because I was not grounded at certain periods.

There's a, your body's talking to you. I told you to read that. That's true. You know what? Like guys oftentimes need like a little bit less of a woo. and that's why Dr. Sarno did a great service because being a man, being a medical doctor, he opened the door for a lot of people

that are also open to that because I completely agree with you. It's of the same energy. Well, you know, for the people that maybe, no, but here's how I actually found, I don't know if I told the story. I was going through the back pain, going through everything, and I went,

I was in New York working, and I went to get a massage at the hotel we were staying at. And there was a woman, an older woman. And she's great. And I was telling her about it. I was like, watch the back. Like, don't know what.

Yeah. And she said, oh, I had a client, she said he was a very successful and wealthy Upper East Side Gentleman. And she said, the guy had tried everything. He had access to all the best doctors, all the best resources, all the, all the, you know, surgeons, everything could literally go and spend on anybody. And the guy went through all that. And the only thing that worked was the book. And so she's like, you should check that out. And so in my brain, I'm like, oh, this guy has access to way more than I have access to. And that's the only thing that worked. I'm just going to fast track to that.

Smart guy. But that's what, but I think again, it's like, what, what, what, but I think again, it's like, whatever you get there, whether it's through woo-woo or it's through like, for me, like, it was rational because it's like, oh, this guy could do everything that I'm trying to do it, and maybe better. And it didn't work for him. I might as well to do that thing. I did it on a rash on my legs. Whenever I would get stressed, I would itch my legs. And I'm like, why do you have this rash on my legs? Every time my nervous system would act up, I would itch my legs, and then I'm like, oh, I'm creating it. So whenever your husband is annoying you, you just have to go in and realize it's something that you are doing. I'm telling you guys, you're both

so of the mind that this is going, this could potentially, like, profoundly change your life. if you really just commit to the practice, even just for a bracket period of time. I'm going to do it. I'm excited for you guys. If your journal speak doesn't say, my wife is so fucking amazing, she is so cool.

That's all he needs to say. You know why I like this episode so much? I think that, listen, like, hopefully everybody gets, but I think like the audience is large enough where it could have an impact on a good amount of people. Yes. And I think that's important.

This is why I like doing what I do, this kind of episode. because this is a free thing that anyone can do. If you're listening, it's accessible to everyone. This kind of episode lights me up and gives me energy. Some episodes can be draining. I'm sure. Some episodes I have to go scrub my body with a scrubber and lay on a PEMF mat.

This episode is why I do what I do. And you don't always get it like this. Can I tell you guys one story just to close the episode? Because it's so meaningful to me. And this is, it's a little dark, but it's worth it. I get an email on the regular that is something along these lines. And I'm going to quote one that is an actual email I've received. I was planning to take my life.

I was in so much pain and suffering. And I thought if I'm not well by Christmas, like I can't go on. I used to Google ways to take my life with my husband and daughter on the other couch. Okay, this is a real email verbatim. And one day at three in the morning, I did a deep dive on Google and I found an interview you gave. And I went to your website and I started the journal speak and I'm writing you six months later to tell you that I'm back to work full time and I'm having a second baby. And the last line of the email is always something like, I can't believe I didn't know this work was an option for me. So you then find my reason for being, which is I want to blanket the planet in this message.

I want every person to know whether they're going to pick up what I'm putting down. That's not my responsibility. I want them to know this work is an option for you. Because because you guys had me on this podcast, I'm just going to promise you, you will save somebody's life. And that's just an amazing thing. I agree. Thank you to Elizabeth who connected us.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you, for connecting us. Nicole. Thank you for doing the show. Thank you both for having me.