The Bossticks - How To Get People To Like You More, Create Connection, & Develop Personal Confidence Ft. Vanessa Van Edwards

Episode Date: January 1, 2024

#641: Today, we're sitting down with people expert Vanessa Van Edwards. Vanessa shares tangible skills to improve interpersonal communication and leadership, including her insights on how people work. She has developed a science-based framework for understanding different personalities to improve our emotional intelligence (EQ) and help us communicate effectively with anyone. Today, we sit down for a conversation about charisma and how to connect with people. She gives us tips on how to elevate people skills and what not to do when your goal is connection. We dive into the best ways to communicate, and she shares insight into the top qualities of charismatic people.   To connect with Vanessa Van Edwards click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. This episode is brought to you by Hiya Health Hiya Health fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diet to provide full-body nourishment our kids need with a yummy taste they love. Go to hiyahealth.com/skinny to receive 50% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase.   This episode is brought to you by Hinge Hinge is the dating app designed to be deleted. Download Hinge today & find someone worth deleting the app for. This episode is brought to you by MelissaWoodHealth As Melissa says herself, "Don't trust me, try me." Visit melissawoodhealth.com and use code SKINNY at checkout to get your first month free off your monthly membership. This episode is brought to you by Primal Kitchen You can find Primal Kitchen products at Target, Walmart, or your local grocery store. Or go to PrimalKitchen.com and use code SKINNY for 20% off your entire order. Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hello, everybody. Happy New Year. Welcome to him and her show. Some quick announcements to kick off the year. Lauren and I will be switching to a Monday, Wednesday, Friday cadence. I know that sounds like a lot of content, but hear me out. First, we're going to keep regular programming on Monday and we're going to switch the Thursday episode that's typically an interview or a long format episode to Wednesday. Now, the Friday episode will be a little bit different. Lorna and I over the years have got so many requests to do all sorts of different topics and solo episodes, but some of these topics are just not full-length episodes. It doesn't mean we don't want to address the topic or the issue or the idea.

So we thought it'd be interesting to leave Friday open for bite-sized episodes. Think 8 to 12 to 15 minutes, shorter episodes on very specific ideas or bonus episodes that we, you know, if we have a phenomenal guest or we want to do a different solo. is just going to free up some more space so that we can get some of these quicker bite-sized ideas to you and not have to interrupt regular programming. So look out for the new schedule. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, the Friday episodes will be a little bit shorter, more bite-sized content. If you have any specific requests or topics you'd like us to cover, kind of getting back to our roots on how this show started, be sure to write us in, go to the TSC podcast website and just

shoot us a message or DM us, and we'll be sure to try to cover any topics that you guys are interested in. Second announcement, Lauren and I have a brand new show coming out called The Morning Quicky. Not to confuse everybody. It's going to be a completely separate show. You're going to have to follow or subscribe to that. What the Morning Quicky is is we have had close to 700 episodes at this point for close to seven or eight years.

I don't even know how long it's been since 2016. Many new listeners, I think, would still benefit from some of the evergreen content with some of the amazing guests that we've had on the show or some of the ideas that we've shared. but it's hard for people to go back and listen to every single episode. So we've had the team start pulling some of the most meaningful moments of the history of this show. Think bite-sized clips that you can get three to five minutes, seven minutes, whatever it may be from past episodes to remind you of very prolific or inspiring or exciting ideas that guests have shared. And if you check out our YouTube channel, that'll be there as well.

So you can check out the morning quickie episodes on the Skinny Confidential YouTube channel. Check it out. It's going to be a daily show. It's called The Morning Quick. You can go subscribe to it now. We're going to drop the trailer so you can listen to it. So check it out. The following is a Dear Media production.

It's Lauren Bostick. And Michael Bostick. And this is the Morning Quickie. A new type of daily show. Presented by the skinny confidential him and her show, where we bring you micro takeaways from over five years. And things that we've learned from interviewing over 600 of the most successful people in the world. And we're sharing them all with you every single day.

You don't want to miss this. Think Daily Bites delivered right to you to save. you time. It's kind of like a bag of checks mix. You never know what you're going to get. Enjoy that morning, quickie. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. Our brain is a super

Q reader. Like we have this superpower. Like if I could tell people you have a superpower, all you have to do is name it. We've been taught to ignore our intuition. We have been taught to ignore these cues. Oh, they said they were happy, but they didn't look happy. Or you know what? I was with my friend, but I left feeling drained, burnt out and not supported. That is because your super cue reader in your head was picking up on the eye rolls, on the contempt, on the disrespect, on the scorn, on the scoff. And somehow your body went, But we're friends. And so my goal is to actually teach people there are names for these cues. If you know how to name them, you begin to listen to your tuition.

One subject that I am absolutely intrigued by is charisma. It is my number one obsession when it comes to people. I love someone that eludes charisma. I have since I was little. I remember watching certain celebrities and being able to pinpoint the ones that really gave off charisma and I would be obsessed with it. I remember like dissecting how they were so charismatic and what they were doing that made you feel so comfortable in their presence. I even took it to a different level as I grew up. I would find people in my high

school or people at my dad's restaurant that had charisma and I would study it. My father, if he's listening, is a master of charisma. Ever since I was little, he just has this personality where it makes you feel at ease. There's a finesse to it. He keeps his arms open, his body language, his tone. He's always asking people about themselves. And it's like very much an art. So I've been looking for someone to come on this podcast for so long and explain the art of charisma and the qualities of a charismatic person. Essentially how to be more likable. So that's what this episode is about. I searched high and low and I found Vanessa Van Edwards. She was a guest on the Mel Robbins podcast and I thought her interview was insightful and educational when it came to the topic of charisma. This episode is

going to give you tangible skills to improve your communication, your leadership, you as a parent, It's even going to help you with EQ. Your emotional intelligence is going to go up after this podcast. It's also going to teach you how to communicate effectively. I learned a lot of really great tips from this episode that I've been able to apply to my own life. And I know that's what you guys love. So, on that note, Vanessa Van Edwards, she is going to tell you about what matters in the

first seven seconds of any conversation. She's going to teach you how to cultivate confidence. the importance of body language, how to meet people. She's even going to teach you about those subliminal cues that we aren't even paying attention to that make all the difference. And she's going to give you the three steps of connection and how to change and adjust yourself narrative. So you are the most fucking charismatic person on the planet. Vanessa, welcome to the him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. So who's more charismatic after meeting right away. Me or Michael. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Let me warm up here for a minute, you know.

Also, I should preface this. I take it with me. With my son, who's one and a half, woke me up eight times last night. I'm so sorry. You can't blame that on my my 10 month old woke me up twice. Yeah. I mean, hello and she still walks in. Lauren does this thing and we're rolling, but Lauren does this thing where she's like, wow, like I slept great. Like he didn't wake up once. I'm like, I went up eight times. I look like shit. Look at me. I'm falling apart. amazing. Thank you. You look amazing. It's incredible. She can sleep through a thunderstorm and I have like a pin drop. Or am I pretending to sleep? Okay. I like it. That's the question. That's next level. Or is it a fake? And I have a bone to pick with you one time before and I don't want to get two couples there. I like and then we got to start the show properly. She sleeps with this Kindle on top of her. Like she'll fall asleep at the Kindle. Oh God. And then she'll move in the night and the thing crashes down on the wood floors. And so finally when I get to sleep, it's like it sounds like someone's breaking into the house. It is. I have an idea for the holidays. you could just wrap it in flannel. Oh, that's a good idea. A little flannel. A little cushion.

A little cushion for your Kindle. See? Yeah, something. Anyways, welcome to the show. We're solving problems every day. I can't talk when he gets mad at me either because I mouth tape. Okay, Vanessa, I am so excited for this episode. I think that every single person on the planet should listen to this episode.

And that's not always the case for certain episodes. This is one that is so important, in my opinion, to have. have this tool or tools in the toolbox. First of all, how do you describe what you do? Well, most importantly, I'm a recovering awkward person. So social skills do not come naturally to me. If you are an awkward person or an introvert or an ambrovert or you're a social overthinker, I got you.

Okay. I got you. So my entire mission is I realize a lot of the communication advice out there being charismatic is written by extroverts. And if you're not naturally extroverted, you're basically telling people, to pretend to be something they're not. And it is impossible to connect with people, be charismatic, socialize, express your ideas if you are not being yourself. We pick up on that inauthenticity. We smell fake. And so I'm like, there has to be a better way. There has to be a way to communicate

with confidence. So I call myself a recovering awkward person turned behavioral researcher. All I do is research human behavior, body language, facial cues, conversation patterns, blueprints, formulas. Unfortunately, I don't, I can't read people naturally. And so I have to do it a little bit like a foreign language. And so I realize I'm not the only one who is sometimes in these awkward moments. And so I just try to translate that to folks. It makes so much sense because you'd assume, and not to make a blanket statement, but most of the people that are out there creating content like this or writing books or giving speeches

are more than likely extroverted, confident people that don't have a problem putting themselves out there. But if you're someone who hasn't gotten to that place, it becomes overwhelming. You almost can't even get past step one to get to the other stuff. You know, what's funny about that is I actually think that right now we have a huge problem, which is that very, very smart people, the smartest people, the most talented people, they focus so much on their book smarts, on the talent, on being the best graphic designer or the best researcher, the best writer, and they don't know how to share that talent. So I get so frustrated by seeing the smartest people I know are often not the most charismatic,

and they cannot get adoption on their ideas. They cannot get a podcast. They cannot get their book. They're putting out content that is incredible, but no one's listening because they are delivering it the wrong way. And that is the mistake I made for the first 25 years of my life, is I thought, if you have great ideas, they'll speak for themselves. Unfortunately, this is just not true. You can have the best idea in the world, but if you don't share it charismatically, people cannot hear it. There's an author that I like named Morgan Housel. He wrote that book, The Psychology of Money. And now he just came out of the new book. And it's funny you say this. I was on the airplane reading this. And he was saying, best story wins. Best storytellers win.

And he was talking about, you know, Ken Burns, the documentarian, he was saying all he really did was kind of, not to take anything away, was he regurgitated a lot of stuff that had already been shared maybe in a drier way by writers or whoever. And he created these beautiful documentaries with music and soundtracks and he was cutting sentences, but like everybody tuned into this civil war. And he's like, literally, it wasn't the person with the best or smartest information is the person who can tell the best stories in the most concise way possible. Okay, this is it. And actually, there's a really famous story about this, which hopefully. Hopefully, if you're someone who's tried to pitch ideas and they fall on flat, you were ignored, my people are underestimated, overlooked, and often not taken seriously. But those are my folks.

And they're so smart. And the reason is this. So ring doorbells, ring doorbell, right? I have one on my house. It's on billions of doors around the world. That is a great idea of a doorbell. Jamie Siminoff is the founder of Ring. He went on Shark Tank very early on in, I think, 2013.

And he pitched Ring, which is a great idea. idea. We know. He went on shark tanky pitchering and I knew I was watching this pitch in 2013. I knew within the first seven seconds of watching this pitch that it would fail. It was a great idea. It burned in the tank. I mean, the sharks didn't get it. They were asking him terrible questions. And six months later, he went on to get an investment from Shaq, Jack, Richard Branson, and Amazon eventually acquired it for over a billion dollars. Meaning he had a great idea. But the way that he pitched it in that tank made him completely overlaught. looked. What did you do in the first seven seconds? Let me tell you. So I coded this. So one of the,

my research team and I, we coded. So thanks, shout out to Jose Pena. He led this. We coded 495 shark tank pitches looking for patterns. I wanted to know why is it. These are all good ideas for the most part. I would say 80% of them are good ideas. Why is it that some, every shark is like me, throw my money at you. And others are like, and they get the hardest questions. So we found there are patterns. And Jamie Siminoff is one of the negative ones. Here's what he did. He made the mistake of using the question inflection. Research has found that we decide how confident someone is in the first 200 milliseconds of hearing them speak, which means you can have the best pitch, the best presentation, the best podcast, but if you say, hello, wrong, people don't think you're

confident. And we don't like to buy from, hear from, or be with not confident people. It's contagious. So what he did is his very first word, he gave away all of his confidence. He said, my name is Jamie and he asked his name. Actually, even shorter, he said, it's Jamie? Like that, he asked it. What they have found is when the brain hears an accidental question inflection. So a question flexion is when I go up at the end of my sentence, like I'm asking a question, but actually it's a statement. When the brain hears an accidental question reflection, it flips from listening to scrutinizing. And that is because liars use the question inflection. liars, they're not, they don't, they don't believe their words, right? So they ask their lie as if to say, do you believe me? So when I play truths and a lie with people, two truths and a lie with people, which is a game I love to play, almost always they'll ask their lie because they're asking, do you believe this? So when he said it's Jamie, our brains went from just listening positively to scrutinizing. And that is exactly what the sharks did. The entire pitch, they were just peppering him with questions and he didn't get a deal. What is the right way to say, my name is Jamie? Okay, so first, I want everyone,

everyone please, please do a voicemail audit. Go listen to your voicemail. Make sure you're not accidentally using the question inflection on your name and on your ask. And then whenever you introduce yourself in a video call and a meeting on a date in person at a networking event at a holiday party, I want you to use the downward inflection. So here's the difference. I'm Vanessa versus my name is Vanessa. So I'll do it even more hard for you. So I'm Vanessa.

I'm Vanessa. Right. That first one is good. The second one is here. Hey guys. It's Lauren Bostic. That's it. That was it. So the second one, it's like, you're certain of yourself. That's what I hear.

That's it. And so when people are speaking, maybe they're nervous, they're not certain of themselves. They're not even sure they believe what's coming out of their mouth. That uncertainty is conveyed in the other person's mind as you're lying to them. Or you're not confident. Not both, right? It triggers all these micro cues in our body to think you're not confident. Well, I don't want to catch your not confidence. Are you lying to me? Like usually a name, we don't think someone's lying. We think, is this person a liar? because it triggers without even realizing it all those things. What I hear how often happen is in the first 20 seconds of interaction, the most important for your entire first impression setup

is someone uses the question reflection all the time. It sounds like this. Hey, everyone. Good morning. I'm here to talk about our agenda today and we're going to be going over all different kinds of things. That is basically telling someone, I don't feel confident anything I'm saying.

It feels weak. It feels so weak. And so we do sales audits where we, find that oftentimes in sales situations, there's the same people who get pushback over and over again. Typically, salespeople who have the lowest close rate and the worst confidence and the most pushback ask their number. If you were going to ask for a salary raise or you are charging a rate, never ask your number. So don't say, here's what it sounds like, hey, we'd love to have your business. We'd love to work with you and the cost of that price is $5,000. If you ask your number,

you're telling people, I don't think I'm worth this number and you should question me to. So tell us how you would say. Okay. So not this. So not, I love to work with you and my cost is $5,000. Instead, I'd love to work with you. My cost is $5,000. Wow.

Same person. Like it's not, it's not open for interpretation. No, this is my price. This is the number. So boundaries, numbers, timelines, prices. Say it. Don't ask it. It's almost an energy, too.

It's like a, it's an undertone that you can't really put your, your finger on it. It feels like even like, you know, in the dating world, like I, when people, when they ask a question, when they say, like, will you go out with me? And it's like they're saying in a way, we're like, I'm surprised that if you would say yes. Like, it's like almost like, I can't believe you would say yes to me. When Michael asked me out, I actually remember this. You said, go out with me. Oh.

Yeah, that's what you said to me. In sixth grade, that's how you said it. And then I took a club out of my pocket and I hit her in the head. Perfect. Perfect body language. No, but that's it. Like, you remember that. Like, you remember the way you asked.

The authority. That was a statement. Well, it was, I think, I think confident, I mean, listen, there's a million, you're going to tell me more about this than I know. But I think at that point, I remember just being certain that she would go out with me. And listen, it could have been, I could have been completely delusional and it could have been, I could just be like way out there. But in my mind, it was certain. Or like, I'll give you another example. We'll talk about getting guests on the show.

Sometimes we'll see someone like, oh, I'd love to talk with them. And I'll say, like, well, we'll get to them soon. One day we'll talk. Like, it's not like, oh, if or how. I know it'll happen and maybe it may not happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen. That is the confidence that we are all trying to be infected with. Maybe a little delusion. But is it if it's happening for you?

I think that if you personally, if you don't really believe it can happen, it won't ever happen. I also think if you don't believe in yourself who is supposed to. Exactly right. And that is leaked in all of our cues. So I think that there's two parts of this. One, I want you to believe in yourself because you're smart and you're talented and you're amazing and you deserve that person or that deal. Yes. The second is how can you match your body language, your voice, your vocal power, your facial expressions to that inner confidence. There is often a mismatch. And this happens because really smart people have great ideas, but they're not

confident in themselves. And so they go to pitch an idea or they go to ask them on a date or they go to set up their boundary and their lack of confidence in themselves is translated onto this idea and then no one believes their idea. Okay. So in your case, as a self-reclan one of these kinds of people back in the day. Yes. What did you do to change? Yes. I take a very methodical approach to confidence.

So I hope for those listening, if you're a list taker, you like... That's helpful, though. I think, like, it's not ambiguous. I like that. Yeah. And also, I can't, like, there's all these, you know, self-help book out, out there that are like, you know, be yourself, you know, just smile more. And, like, I was like, what?

Like, if I don't, if I don't like myself, how can I be more like myself? right? Like that that that was fundamentally the issue on a very deep level that I was dealing with. So for me, I thought, okay, I can't just be more confident. I can't just find my passion, right? But I can find confidence in control. So control is something that I think is a backdoor into confidence. What I mean by this is in an interaction, there are a couple things that you can control that can give you confidence. So one being your social intention and your social energy, the very first step is to figure out, are you an introvert, ambrovert, or extrovert? There's actually a middle category, and this is the one that's most often forgotten. Introverts, you're a true introvert, and not many people are.

True introverts, they only get their energy from being alone. They can only recharge from being alone. So they have a bad day, they need to be alone. They have a good day, they want to savor it alone. True extroverts, and again, there aren't actually many true extroverts, only recharge and get energy by being with people. They have a good day, they want to celebrate with people. They have a bad day.

They want to commiserate with people. Most of us, 82%, are ambiverts. I don't think I've ever heard someone talk about ambiverts on this show ever. Okay, this is going to change your life. No joke, I think it's going to change your life. Ambivirts are able to flip into extroversion and introversion based on their goals. But if you don't have a social goal, you're not in control. Okay, so give an example.

Okay. So if you say, okay, I'm going to this networking event and my goal is to close three ideal clients or to find three ideal clients. That social goal just flipped you into extroversion for a reason. that's going to make the event way less draining for you. It also value tags for you. It tags the kind of person that you want to see. So you're not going to waste your energy on the person who is a bad conversationalist or doesn't vibe with you. You're going to be like, no, excuse me. I'm going to go try to find someone else. You're not going to say that. We're going to have a nicer ways to say that. You're looking for your people. That flips you into extroversion, which makes you conserve your social battery. And if you're really smart about it, you make the event work for you. For example, ambiverts should always stand where, people exit the bar. The reason for this is because a mistake you will make at a crowded event at a bar, nightclub party, office event, conference is they try to meet people right when they get in the room. It's way too hungry tiger. Tiger. Hungry Tiger Beaver. You got it. That's it. That's not the hungry tiger beaver combo. No, but it's like, dangerous. Yeah. Don't sit. Don't sit. It looks like a

dog waiting for like its owner at the window. Like we can't. And you're going to get people who excuse themselves. They're looking over your head. They're trying to find someone better. So do not stand right where people come in. That's the worst place. You're going to get people who are excusing themselves. Don't stand by the bathroom. And I also wouldn't stand by the food. That's another critical mistake people make is because people are focused on their eating. They're not really focused on you. And they often are they going to take their meal and go to sit somewhere else. It's like, John, I'm trying to eat a pig in a blanket. Like move. Leave. I can't talk to you. I have a pig in the blanket. I can't do it. Right. Yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. You're like,

I need to focus on this pick in the blanket. It's my snack. Right. So your best bet is, first of all, go always stand in a line. I love standing in lines. Amboverts. Lines are our friend. Why? You're in line. It's so easy to talk to the person ahead of you and behind you. Like so easy. Like no social pressure. You're like, so what's you going to get tonight? What brings you here? How do you know the host? So like low social energy. It's like neutral ground. Everyone knows they kind of have to be in the line. There's a reason. And also you look a little bit. You look like you're not an interesting person if you're in line just scrolling your phone all the time. So you're almost like off your phone because you don't want to look like disinterested.

Yeah. And also it gives you a purpose. You look very purposeful. Confidence. comes from purpose, right? So if you're in line, you have a purpose. So what I would use to do in the very beginning of my awkward stage is I would go to these networking conferences and I would just get in every line I could. So I would like get in the Starbucks line, the longest one. And then I would get my coffee, a really small one that I'd get back in line to get a snack. I would just like getting back. And I met. That's smart. Dozens. I mean, dozens of people. And that's why during the breaks, because the breaks were so overwhelming to me to try to walk up to someone and strike up a conversation, that that purpose worked. So you could either get in the longest line possible, which always works.

And then once you get your drink or your food, stand where people exit because that's your money moment. That's your charisma moment. That's where people turn to the room. You're in a room. You have a drink in your hand. You're like, who do I talk to? Who do I talk to? You become the social savior.

You're like, hey, that drink looks great or what brings you here? Or isn't this a great night? It's like a win-win for everyone you have the best conversations. So we can hack an event. We can hack where you stand, what you say. And also, you can build in your social energy to make sure that you have recharge time before or after. The other thing ambivorts have to do is look at your calendar. Open up your calendar and scan what you have in the next month.

Who do you see on your calendar that immediately causes you dread? Who is the person we were like, I don't really want to go to coffee with them, or I don't really want to have happy bar with them, or I don't really want to go to their home? Those are people who are going to drain your social energy so quickly, and they're going to leave you worse off. And so it's also about social energy maintenance. Amberverts, we do not have unlimited social energy. So we have to be able to maximize our time with people who fuel us.

And there are people who give you energy. You just have to figure out which ones they are. Wow. I mean. That makes a ton of sense. So if you were to line up 10 people, out of those 10 people, how many would you say? 82% or 8 out of 10 would be ignorant. Yes.

Wow. I also think that and you are the perfect person to ask. There is also a way to, and you could tell me the tools to do this, to allude a confidence where people actually want to come up to you at a social event instead of you having to go up to them? Yes. How do you do that? Okay. So now we're getting into the advanced stuff. So we are constantly doing this. We're in advanced settings. We're in advanced settings right now. So let's just do body language cues. Okay. So there's a couple of cues that indicate approachability. This is not just romantic situations. This is any situation where we are reading someone to think,

could I approach this person? So actually it begins with our feet, our toes. Typically when we angle our toes to is the person we're most interested in. I can almost always, my favorite game is to go into a room and try to guess who's the boss. It's like my favorite game, my friends and I play it, my husband and I play it, where we try to look and see, because usually people's toes are pointed towards the boss. They're subconsciously oriented towards that person. Are your toes pointing towards me right now? I can see your toes.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I also can usually tell office crushes typically by where someone's toes are pointed. Like if you're sitting in a big mixed room and you want to see if someone has a crush on you, see if they angle their toes towards you. It's a subconscious reason. The reason for this, by the way, is because if as humans we're interested in someone,

we're kind of like wanting to see, like, what are they doing? Right? We're kind of like glancing over, but glances are hard to see. So our toes will, without even subconsciously realize it, point towards that person because we're like, our mind is with them. So it happens with crushes, it happens with bosses.

So you want to angle your toes towards the room, right? Instead of towards a person you're speaking with, if you're open to approachability, you want to make sure your body and your toes are angled out and or the person, you want to approach. The toes being angled. I feel a lot of people subconsciously know about a lot of this. Meaning, Lauren asked me all the time, like, hey, when you're not with me, do you get hit on? And I honestly do, like, I never do. And I think, and it's, and like, what might be nice once in a while.

But I think, like, there's an, I think there's an energy when it comes to dating that you put out to to show like, hey, I'm ready and I'm available versus like, I'm not. I mean, at this point, I got two kids and I'm just tired and lazy. I'm so tired. I'm probably hunched over some kind of disgusting meal and stuffing my face. They're like, what's going on with this guy? I'm meeting their meal. Yeah, exactly. I'm meeting whatever they did not eat for dinner. Exactly. But I think that there's an energy when it comes to dating. Like I see my single friends, they go out. I'm like, well, why aren't girls coming up? I'm like, if you're closed off and you're hunched over and you're away and you're, you know, like it's just, it's not inviting. Okay. So one of the secret motivations for my career

is I think that we all have this amazing intuition on these cues. That's what I'm saying. Yes, our brain is a super Q reader. Like, we have this superpower. Like, if I could tell people, you have a superpower, you literally have it. All you have to do is name it. And so I think that what I want to teach people is we've been taught to ignore our intuition. We have been taught to ignore these cues for our, oh, they said they were happy, but they didn't look happy. Or you know what? I was with my friend, but I left feeling drained, burnt out and not supported. That is because your super cue reader in your head was picking up on the eye. I rolls on the contempt, on the disrespect, on the scoff. And somehow your body went, but we're friends. Your brain went, we're friends. And so my goal is to actually teach people. There are names for these cues, right? There's 97 cues.

That's what we've just studied in our research. There are 97 cues. If you know how to name them, you begin to listen to your tuition. Yeah, I think, no, I couldn't agree more. And I grew up and I've said this before, I have two younger sisters. And I always would tell them with men, like, they would always be like, I need to know if he likes me or not. I'm like, I don't think it's like a, if you're wondering that, you don't, it's not a verbal thing you need. Like you, you could tell from the nonverbal stuff quickly.

Yeah. And so, so that was a study that I love that kind of proves how this works. It's, it's a very gross study. Are you ready for a grotes? I love gross. Okay. Gross is better. Okay. They brought people into their lab and they sold them up into two different groups. The first group wore a sweatsuit, so a suit that caught their sweat and they had them run on the treadmill. The second group, they had them wear sweatsuits and they had them skydive for the first time. Okay. So the samples collected were two different kinds of sweat, exercise sweat and stress sweat, right, where someone was scared and stressed. Then they took these sweat samples and they had unsuspecting participants come into their lab and they had them smell them.

Disgusting. And they had no idea what they were smelling. So they put them in an fMRI machine. They gave them these two samples and they went, they had no idea what they were smelling. But when people smell the fear sweat, they felt more afraid. Their amygdala where they process fear lit up. In other words, somehow they caught the fear without knowing what they were smelling. This study changed the way I think about people because it made me realize if you are afraid and anxious and nervous, people pick up on it and they catch it. If you are confident and grounded and know your worth, then people catch that and they feel more confident. That is the definition of charismatic people. You started the episode by saying, I think everyone

should have this. We have to have this because the definition of being a human who helps people, who cares about people, is that you show up and you make people better. And how does that work? If you are better, you make other people better. Lauren and I are absolutely insane, as you guys know, about what we put in our body, what supplements we take what we recommend. And we're even crazier when it comes to what we recommend for our children, which is why Lauren and I love Haya so much. Haya are some of the best children's vitamins on the market. Typical children's vitamins are basically just candy in disguise, filled with two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, and other gummy junk growing kids should never eat.

That's why Haya was created. The pediatrician approved superpowered chewable vitamin. Lauren and I, every single morning we wake up and look at both of our children say, who wants a vitamin? They come running and screaming. They both love the vitamins. so much. Why would you not want to give your child the best possible supplement that they could take with the best possible ingredients? It's non-GMO, vegan, dairy-free, allergy-free, gelatin-free, nut-free, and everything else you can imagine. Haya is designed for kids of all ages and send straight to your doors so parents have one less thing to worry about. Like I said, this is just one easy thing that you can implement into your children's health routine. So if you've been on the fence,

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Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-H-T-H-H-E-A-L-T-H-Hat-Hat-E-Hatheatheathe. slash skinny for 50% off. A little while back, I was on a podcast called the Meat Mafia podcast, and they asked what my morning routine was. And I started to think that I didn't really have a morning routine. But one thing that I realize I do religiously, and I have done now for years, is that I always, without fail, every single day, no matter if I'm traveling, if I'm at home, wherever I'm at, I'm at, I drink AG1.

Prior to drinking AG1, I felt a little sluggish. I felt a little tired. I had under-eye circles. I wasn't doing enough to get my prebiotics and my probiotics. I definitely wasn't getting my minerals. And I was for sure not getting my vegetables in. And so what I should have said on that podcast is I don't really have such a crazy morning routine outside of drinking my AG1. I feel like this kicks the day right off to a great start.

It doesn't break my fast. I get hydrated at the same time. And I get so much bang for my buck. I've said for years now on the show, if I could only choose one thing, one thing to invest in for my health, it would be AG1. This is because it does so much more than typical products. You have your multivitamin, you have your adaptogens, you have your prebiotic, you have your probiotic, you have your probiotic, you have your greens, you have your minerals, all in one simple scoop that you can take with water, whether at home on the go. I use their travel packets as well as their at home bag. So check it out.

If there's one product I had to recommend to elevate your health, it's AG1. And that's why I've partnered with them for so long. So if you want to take ownership of your health, start with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3 and K2 and five free free. AG1 travel packs with your first purchase exclusively at drinkag1.com slash skinny. That's drinkag1.com slash skinny. Check it out. Let me tell you about a success story on Hinge. It actually has to do with my producer, Carson, who's listening right now. Carson what up? Carson met a beautiful, lovely, amazing,

charismatic, funny woman on Hinge. If you don't know about Hinge, you're missing out. Hinge is the dating app designed to be deleted. Why? Because Hinge gives you a sense of someone's personality and it lets you share your own. You get to know potential dates through their unique answers to prompts. Plus, you get a sense of someone's dating intentions and what they're looking for. So I got to talking with Carson and he says, and he's tried a lot, that it is the best dating site ever. He says that it actually is a place where he could find a partner that he wanted to date. and potentially, Mary, can I say that, Carson? He's laughing.

He said I could. Okay, so basically, Hinge gets straight to the point. Carson told me that his favorite specific feature on Hinge is that it cuts straight to the point. So when he wanted to reach out to his future girlfriend, he was able to go directly to her without having to go through a bunch of BS. He is a huge fan and for my next husband, I will be going to Hinge. It's the place to be. It's the place I would be if I was dating.

You can download Hinge and find someone worth deleting the app for. Download Hinge. With what you do, you're obviously so good at it. When you walk into a party, what makes the most captivating and compelling person in the room to you? Well, I'm not invited to parties. I'm just joking. I know because you're like, so you're like surveying, whose toes are pointed where, who's in line, you're analyzing the party. I think you were for a minute. You were like, oh, no, is she really not? No, I am invited to some parties.

Austin's like the place, right? Like everyone, like people are like, come, you're the most interesting person. Okay, so the most cap-needing person is actually not the life of the party. So I think that there's a myth, which I would love to bust if we can bust it, which is that you have to be the life of the party, have the best stories. I think being good story tells good, but be funniest, be funniest. That is not to be. be hungry tiger-ish. Yes. In a different way. Yes, because, yes, that is one flavor of charisma. But my work is finding the different flavors of charisma. Yes, the boisterous extrovert is one flavor. But there's also the quiet, contemplative introvert. There's also the compassion, empathetic, question asker or healer. There's all these different flavors. So the most captivating person to me might be different than the most captivating person to you. For example, I love deep one-to-one

conversations that last into the night. So for me, I'm actually not looking for like the person who's holding court. I'm not going to the person who's making everyone laugh. I'm looking for the person who just got their drink, right, like they just exited the bar. They're looking for a social savior. And they look like they could be a good question askers. What do that look like to me? So that is approachability. We can also call it croissant feet, right? Like their feet kind of angle out or like open to the room. It's also someone I really think that eye contact is a critical component of connection. And that's because it produces oxytocin. So when we're in a good conversation, there's three chemicals flowing through our body. Oxytocin, dopamine, and serotonin.

So when I teach my students is you want to actually create a DOS dopamine, oxygen, serotonin cocktail in people. That's what you should be going around giving people. Dopamine, excitement. This means that they're asking you about exciting things. They're breaking social scripts. They're not saying, how's it going? How's the weather? Oh, what do you do? I want to do. I want to do a what do you do diet. That question is so terrible for charisma. It's low-hanging fruit. It's fruit rotting on the ground. Okay. I'm actually going to put it down there. You know why? It's wine. No, you keep turning into something good. It's a whole thing horrible. It's vinegar. It's vinegar. It's bad wine. Here's why. Because when someone asks, what do you do? Your brain goes on autopilot.

You've answered that question so many times before that you are answering brain dead. Right? Like, there's no activity in your brain. There's no dopamine. There's no activity. So you answer it on autopilot. And then you ask it on autopilot. What do you do? And also, deeper, I think this question is actually asking. What are you worth? Like, that's what that question is asking. Where do you stand in the social? Yeah. Not even what are you worth money wise, but what are you worth socially? What's your capital? And what a terrible thing to do for someone. For someone, like, I love what I do. But for someone who isn't defined by what they do, who doesn't like what they do, what a horrible thing to do in the first five seconds, right? So when you say, what do you do? What do you do? What do you do? You're so right. So when you say, what do and someone hates their job, or they're scared, or they're afraid of losing their job, or they don't know if they like their job. You are putting them in a position of cortisol right off the back. So instead, I no longer ask that question. I want you to ask, working on anything exciting recently. This is still a safe question. Like, it's not like, what's your greatest fear, which you don't want to go too deep. It's giving them permission to tell you what they do if they want to. Or also, you could be like, I'm working on a

butterfly exhibit outside my house. Like, it could be. It could be. It could be. It would be anything. So for me, if someone says working on anything exciting recently, I'm going to tell you about what I do because I love it and I'm excited by it. But if it's someone who is not excited about what they do, you give them permission to talk about their butterfly exhibit or their rock climbing or their kids. Right. And that, one, gives them permission, which I think is a gift.

But two, you're actually secretly triggering dopamine. So dopamine is a very complicated chemical. But for our purposes, Dr. John Medina found that dopamine makes us chemically memorable. When you're with someone and they trigger dopamine, it creates what he calls a mental post-it note. We love people to create trigger dopamine for us. And so if you ask someone working on anything exciting recently, I have just juiced something that already gives you dopamine, but I have associated it to myself. Also, if you ask me that at a party, if you ask me that, I'm going to give you so much more detail about something that's really important to me as opposed to just like I'm an entrepreneur. Like it's just like it's it feels like awkward almost.

I think also and maybe you might agree with this like to me that question also forces people to put themselves in a box. Right? Like if you just said what do you do? It's like I automatically have to put my, because there's a lot of things technically that I do and many of them not related to business, right? So I think that's difficult because it automatically makes you have to maybe make yourself seem small.

Absolutely. It forces someone to be small. It's like a very beautiful way. of putting it. And my goal in interactions is to help people be big. No small talk, no small box, no small labels, big talk, big exciting things, big dreams. Like big is better. I think. I'm from Texas. No, no, for sure. No, it's so funny because we come on this, so we do this show and we refuse to do it now over Zoom. Yeah. And sometimes people get really upset. And we've passed on some quote unquote, I guess, like names in the space that refuse to do it in person. But to your point, like, I need

exactly what you're talking about in order to have what I think is a conversation that people are memorable. Yeah, because we've had some great people on Zoom in the past. And I honestly cannot really remember anything about those conversations besides they weren't as pleasant as I think they could have been. Yes. Okay, so that was a chemical reaction. So you are not remembering that because one, you had less opamine. It's much harder to create excitement when you're through a screen. Two, you had less oxytocin. Oxytocin is a second chemical. Simplified, very simplified. it's a chemical of connection. It's that feeling of like when you're with someone, you're like,

I really like this person. That's actually oxytocin. It's very memorable. And the last one is serotonin, which is a sense of belonging, very simplified. So it's extremely difficult to that over screens. Like we do produce it. You can do it. So you can, they've actually studied it.

You can produce oxytocin through a webcam. But it's so much less. So much less. Well, only fans does it too. Only fans when they do a strip tease on camera. that's a different type of thing. But no, it's what, you know, I barely know what you're talking about. Only fans is like when, when like a girl or a guy is like showing their, they're like webcams.

Yeah, they're like webcam people. Anyway. Okay. You know, I, a little tangent. COVID was weird running this company because we obviously, everyone was forced to go remote. And then we've kind of come back and it's been a little bit more of a hybrid. But I personally running an organization like this feel, and I haven't been able to articulate as well as you just. that the reason you can't maybe get the bet and listen a lot of people really get bad to say this

I don't think you can be as productive when people aren't working together all the time because of the reasons you're mentioning it's like you have these screen barriers I don't think people are having these releases I don't think that they're jiving as well I think that it's a little bit foreign it's not to say you can't get stuff done but I think being in a group with people and working together and looking people in the eye and being around that energy is just a whole different kind of thing. Also, there's a crazy setting. I don't know if I'm going to get these stats right off of memory, but they did this across 11 different companies with thousands of different employees, different sizes, different industries. And what they found was the number one indicator

for performance was actually who you sat near, who you sat next to. What they found was a low performer is contagious and infects the people that they sit near. And they lower their performance. I think it was like by 35%. I don't remember the exact effect. And high performers are also contagious. You sit next to a high performer and your own performance boosts, which means that the lowest and the highest are affecting us. Right. So it's very also important, one, where do you think you are? Right. If you think you're a low performer, like there's certain things I'm bad at, I'm actually better off sitting next to a high performer to catch their high performance vibes. High performers are actually more powerful than low performers. But I also want to make sure that I'm

strategically thinking about my team and who's being, who's being contagious and whatnot. Now, all my team members are high performers, so they wouldn't be on my team. But We have to remember that even our efficiency, our productivity is contagious. When it comes to getting people to like you, I know, I know we've covered a few of these things. What are some of the, what are three things or three traits that people can start working on today? And maybe they can't change it right away, but three things they can start working on tomorrow. Oh yeah. I'll give you really easy ones.

I'm going to give you really, really practical ones. They're a little in the weeds, but they work. Okay. So one is the phrase. I have like five favorite phrases that I use that are immediate likability. So one of them is, I was just thinking about you. This is the best phrase in the English language, almost as good as I love you. Because, one, everyone is worried, do you think well of me?

Everyone. And so the gift you can give to anyone you interact with is not only to think of you, but I think well of you. And also, we're always thinking about people. Right. So if I think of my friend Sarah, right, I will text her often be like, I was just thinking about you when I saw this new Netflix documentary. or when I see her, I'm like, I was thinking about you this week. I said this amazing Netflix documentary. Everyone in my life, I tell them every time I think about them.

That is like the fastest way to be more likable. So anytime you think about someone, text them or save it for when you see them, it's like the best compliment you can do. I want 300 texts every single second that you think about me of every cell day. I was going to hit a copy, paste. I was just thinking about you, blah, blah, blah. I was just thinking about you, blah, blah, blah. Look, can we just do a little experiment?

Like, if I say, oh my gosh, I was just thinking about you, aren't you kind of excited for what I'm going to say? 100%. Who is not? It's like magic. It's almost like lube for like the ego. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. What were you thinking?

Yeah. Right. Well, you're like, what was it? Right. So one, you can say I was just thinking about you, period. But it's even better if you can tie it to me, you know, it creates excitement for them. Like the master class, like, the, my, I teach my advanced students is like, it's a formula. I was just thinking about you plus dopamine moment.

you mentioned earlier. It's like immediate dopamine bomb, right? Like it's like, it's like hits. So that's one I hear of phrases. A really small one is, have you ever had that awkward moment where you get interrupted by like a waiter or someone else and like you don't finish your story

or your thought? It sucks. Everybody has. It sucks. So a gift you can give socially is like when you're at a restaurant or you're like in someone and someone gets interrupted and you're like, oh, you were saying something so interesting. Finish your thought.

Like gift? Like immediately likable. And the third one that I can remember off the top of my head, I have these written down that I use all the time, is giving someone a compliment that isn't complimenting the tall guy I'm being tall. Oh, this is so good. Go off on this. I think we're told. Like give someone an authentic compliment. But like the tall person, one, they can't control their height.

And two, like they're told that all the time. Right. So like it's horrible. So if you're going to give a compliment, I'd rather you give a compliment that's super unique and validating them in the moment. So if someone says something interesting, be like, you are so. so interesting. Or every time I talk to you, it's so interesting. Or if someone says something funny, oh my gosh, you always make me laugh. You're so funny. Or if someone says something really vulnerable, you always make me think. It's always like the hot girl wants to be told she's smart. Right.

Right? Or like the guy with the good hairline wants to be told he has a big dick. I think that's universal for every guy. I think that every guy would like that compliment. What is the third one? You have a third one. No, I got him. I got him. Don't interrupt my story. I was just thinking about you. And like, that's, you're so. Oh, you're so. Got it. You're so. It sounds like a lot of this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is not stating the obvious all the time or not going for the low-hanging fruit that everybody else goes for. What do you do? Oh, you're so tall or you're so pretty. It's just like boring stuff that you could universally apply to almost anyone you encounter. Yes. And I just saw someone do this by, mistake on Bachelor in Paradise. I don't know if you ever watch that show. I watch it for work. You're like writing shit down every second on that show. I mean, yeah, it's like the best. Yeah. And I saw a guy use a social hack and I was like, interesting, but it didn't really work. And here's what it was. So he came down if you watch Bachelor in Paradise, like for work. Like you could always say that you like blame me. Be like, oh, Vanessa Van Edwards told me that I should watch it for human

behavior research, which is great. He comes down the stairs to like this room, this group full of singles. And the first girl he sees, he's like, oh, that, that blue looks great on you. I was like, Oh, great. That's all right. Like, that's a good comment because she probably thought about her outfit. And I thought to myself, that's a good kind of like not obvious compliment. And the next girl he saw, he was like, man, that orange looks great on you. And I was like, oh, dude. That is your, that is your comment. It's not authentic. Lazy. Lazy. And then he did it again to the same girl. No. With the same compliment. Because he forgot. So later in the day, same day, same girl, same blue. He was like, God, just love that blue. And I was like, but it sounds like to me, it's like almost something. you can't, I mean, you might have some of these cues, but to me it also sounds like you have to just become a more interested person. I mean, that's the secret. Like, right? Like, every type I'm giving is not easy in the sense of like, I'm not giving you a line that you can't just be like, you're so interesting if someone wasn't just interesting. So all I'm doing is creating, I'm trying

to create a like radar in your head that's looking for moments where you can be very charismatic. You have to wait for your moment, right? You have to wait for the moment where someone's exiting the bar. You have to work that at that. You also, have to wait for the moment where someone says something actually interesting. Because there is, there is a thing where you can over compliment. And that's, that's also too hungry tiger too, because it's like when you're complimenting something on everything, it feels overwhelming. Yes. And I don't want you to do that. I'd rather you wait for the moment where they say something funny or interesting or heartfelt or vulnerable. And that's like your capitalization moment.

Think of it as like a bold or a highlight. If you highlight the whole page, nothing's highlighted. If we are going to Vanessa's advanced settings masterclass, what are some tips that we're getting from the advanced layer that are maybe not in your book? Okay, so this is not in my book. It's in my advanced module in my course, and I'll just share it with you. We have a whole 45-minute lecture on it, but we can do it together, which is the three steps of connection. So I'm actually considering doing my next book on this topic because it's so powerful, which

is this. So I've always wondered how people connect. As an awkward person, I sometimes have trouble getting past that acquaintance phase. Like a problem I used to have in my life is I would meet people and I like couldn't like, we didn't go out to lunch, right? I wasn't like actually making connections. So I found this research by Dr. Dan McAdams that found there are three levels of connection that to actually connect with someone, you have to move through these three levels chronologically.

The first level is called general traits. This is your occupation, your hometown, your family status. This is why in every early interaction you go, what do you do? Got any kids? You're married? And then you're stuck. You're like trapped there. Because in that general traits like bracket, you stick with the basics. The next level. But do you have to go through like you have to. You have to. You have to. You have to. I had you ask working on anything exciting recently because you do have to talk about something that excites them. You can't skip that. You can't. You can't. If I met you for the first time and I said, what are your hopes and dreams? Yeah, yeah, too much.

You like what? No, it's like I tell Michael. fill me up before you fuck me. Like I, you got to like, you got to like, you got to like, like you got to get, you got to get, you got to go slow. So no one wants to be like, when someone comes up to you and starts to tell you everything about them within five seconds of meeting them, it's too much. You know what also and I'll just like, Lauren and I have been together a really long time. And we, a lot of our friends, I mean, it's just, it's, it's, it's, we met at a really young age. It's just, it's somewhat, I guess, unique how long we've, I mean, we've been together over 16 years and we're, you know, my husband and I 17 years too. So, so. So you. So, it's just, it's just. So, it's, it's, it's, it's. So,

get it. And we have a lot of friends that are like, it's nothing. They're mid-30s and they're dating and they're just getting. And sometimes they will, like, say they want to start settling down. They like want to sometimes almost skip over the dating phase. Yeah, you can't. And go straight to the end. And it always. I know you were finishing a thought, but go off on that tangent for really quick. Because we need to play this on TikTok. Yeah. It's like they almost are like they're trying to play house and settle down. And I'm like, this is 16 years. It took a 16 to get here. And you've been two months. And it's like, it's like, it's. It's like, it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's going to look different. You can't. The research has found there's a hierarchy of facts. There is something that I do every single day that is a non-negotiable that has absolutely transformed my life. And it is so simple, but it has been so profound. I take a walk every morning with my son. I put him in the stroller and I do a walking meditation. And the app that I use is by Melissa Wood-Tepenberg. It's called M-W-H. This is a walk. is a platform that has the best meditations, you guys. They have legs up on the wall meditation. They have sound bowl meditations. They even have a walking meditation. And the one that I like is

16 minutes. It's so beautiful. And it truly sets the tone of my day. I am so obsessed with MWH. I screenshot it. I send it to my friends. It's all about strengthening both your mind and your body. The platform has workouts, meditations, nutrition, and lifestyle. I personally am drawn to everything on this platform. I'm so obsessed with it. I have been a fan since Melissa came on our podcast years ago. Melissa's workouts offer a blend of yoga and Pilates, and her meditations are just so calming. I love Melissa's voice. I meditate with her every day. And as Melissa says herself, don't trust me, try me. She's right. Visit Melissawoodhealth.com and use Code Skinny at checkout to get your first month free off your monthly membership. You guys, free.

That's M-E-L-I-S-A-W-O-D-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-E-L-T-H-H-E-H-E-L-H-E-H-E-L-T-H-E-E-C-E-E-E-R-E-E-E-E-E-Cchins ketchup. It is so good. Like I'm telling you, it is the best ketchup. It's not made with cane sugar. It is the ketchup that I give my kids on their burgers. I eat it every single night on my burger with no bun. Michael eats it with his french fries. We go through bottles of this ketchup a month. Like, this is the ketchup. The other thing that we use is Primal Kitchen's avocado mayo, but I'm also not mad at their whipped mayo. We use the avocado mayo on Zaza's sandwich every single day. She likes a turkey sandwich. And then I'll use the whipped mayo on a BLT. It's so good on sourdough. And then lastly, we also use a primal kitchen's dressings. We have the best dressings for salads. Sometimes we'll

marinate chicken. I also really like their avocado oil. If you cook for your family, I'm giving you the skinny on why Primal Kitchen is one of my go-to brands. All my other busy moms out there know how crazy life can get between work, taking care of kids, staying fit, and all the other things on our daily to-do list. Eating right is really important to me and Michael, but let's be real, I don't have a lot of time. I'm sure you don't either. Primal Kitchen makes it super easy to whip up delicious family meals that we feel good about, and even picky kids will love. I always keep some of their grilling sauces in my pantry, their ketchup, one of my favorite mom hacks, like I said, is marinating chicken in their dressings to add more flavors. And of course, we have a code for you that I

will be using myself. You can find Primal Kitchen products at Target, Walmart, or your local grocery store. I stock up at Target all the time or go to primalcitchen.com and get 20% off your whole order with our personal code skinny. Use code skinny at checkout. That's primalcitchen.com. We have to move through the hierarchy of facts before we can actually feel connected. It does not make us feel safe if we jump to hopes and dreams without knowing who are you. And so we have to actually hit that level as quickly and as on a non-autopilot as possible. So I don't like what do you do because you're on autopilot. It's scripted.

But you can ask what exciting things are you doing? Do you have any fun plans this weekend? What's been good? What's the highlight of your week? Those are all great questions that break autopilot, but you're getting to, are you married? I would rather you ask on a Monday and a Friday, do anything fun this past weekend, Friday, do anything fun this upcoming weekend? That's a secret way of asking, do you have kids. Are you married?

What do you do for fun? But it's not socially scripted. Right? Even on a date asking someone, what do you do for fun? Like, it's like someone is so, that's so scripted. So that's level one. You have to go through it. But don't do it on autopilot.

Level two is where things get more interesting. This is personal concerns, what Dr. Dan McAdams calls personal concerns. Personal concerns are goals, motivations, worries, values, personality. It's a big bucket. You know, so if you think about exercise I do with my students, so we can do it right now, pull it a pen and paper, write down the five to ten people you interact with most. It can be in person or virtual like texting. So the 5 to 10 people you interact with most.

And I want you to ask yourself for each of those people, do you know what keeps them up at night? When they are very worried, what are they worrying about? Do you know what gets them up in the morning? You know what motivates them, it gets them excited. If you know the answers to those two questions, you're on level two with them. If you don't know the answers to those two questions, you're probably on level one with them. That's interesting. That's like a very quick self-time.

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking they're further alone than they are. And that's why you have them to do the exercise. Yeah. Okay. Is there level three? Yeah. What's level three? Okay.

So most people stand level two their entire lives. Like, you are lucky if you know your partner and your best friends and your kids, level three. Level three is very hard to get to and you have to work towards it. I think this is why you'll have couples who fall out of love or you have couples who feel disconnected and they don't know why. It's because they're not on level three and they don't know it. So level three is called your self-narrative.

Your self-narrative is the story you tell yourself about yourself. It's how you make sense of your journey and purpose in the world. This is how you explain your actions, how you explain who you are. It's the answer to the question, what forces shaped your personality and made you who you are today? So what's really important is one, you have to know your own self-narrative. Like, some people don't even know their own self-narrative. Like, what is the story you tell yourself about yourself? I'll give you three examples.

So in my work right now, I'm researching what are the common self-narratives or common archetypes. One of very common self-narrative is a hero self-narrative. You really like, you want to be around people with hero self-narratives. It's a great one to have. This is, the story you tell yourself about yourself is I've had a lot of challenges. I've had a lot of really difficult times in my life. But through smarts and hard work and grit, I overcame. That is a beautiful hero self-narrative.

What we've found is that if you have a hero self-narrative, You have it in every area of your life. And does it fall anywhere into arrogance or ego or is it still, because I think many people are listening like, oh, that sounds egotistical to have that narrative about yourself? No, because you still have the challenges. And it was really difficult. People who have a hero self-narrative will say, man, those hard years were hard. It was not easy to overcome.

I had to use grit and be creative and get lucky. And no, so it's a lot about like that. The struggle is actually the hardest part for a hero. and then when they've overcome, they feel like redemption. And everything is like this. If you work with a hero, I have heroes that I work with. And every project is the same. This project is hard.

Man, we don't have the resources. It's too expensive. It's too hard. And I go, you can do it. You can do it. It's like someone who figures it out and also doesn't have a victim mindset. Okay. So victim is another self-narrative.

And this is one where you really have to be careful of being in a relationship with someone with the victim self-narrative, working with someone in a victim self-narrative. Victim self-narrative has the same start as a hero. But they don't overcome. They have challenges and mistakes and difficulties. They work. They sweat. They try to use their smarts.

And they cannot overcome it. And they typically repeat that pattern over and over again. And here's a study that proves that idea. So one way that you can tap into your own self-narrative is one is a starter question, which is I ask this to all my students. Do you think you're lucky? You don't have to answer it. I think this is actually a personal question. Do you think you're lucky?

And how lucky do you think you are in a one to do? 10 scale. So Dr. Richard Wiseman did a study where he had people come into his lab and he tested them on their perceived luck. He asked them a series of questions and had them like ranked on a scale of 1 to 10. There were certain people in his lab who thought of themselves as super lucky and some people thought of themselves as super unlucky. Then he gave them a little test. He handed them a newspaper and he had them count the number of images in the newspaper. And there was a trick. There's always a trick. On the second page of the newspaper in giant letters and an ad. It said, there are 43 images in this newspaper. Stop counting. Every single one of the lucky people

saw the ad, closed newspaper, and said, there are 43 images in this newspaper. None of the unlucky people did. So people who perceive themselves as unlucky, literally see the world differently. They missed that ad. They kept counting and got more wrong answers. This is so weird, but I have this weirded version to people who use negative words. So, like, if someone emails me and says, unfortunately, I immediately tune out. If someone starts texting me, it can't be done. I don't know how to do this. This is the problem.

It's an undertone of negativity. And I would choose the word lucky just because it was a positive word. I know that sounds very weird. The word unlucky turns me off and like, get away from me. Get away from that. Yeah. But I think, like, even the words that you talk, like, if you're like, I can't afford it, I can't make it.

happen. Like, what a drag. It's like a fucking anchor dragging you to the bottom of the ocean. The research proves this. The reason you don't like those words is it's a symptom of a victim mentality. And we don't like to be around victim mentality is because they don't overcome, that they feel unlucky. And we are primed by the words we are sent. Right. One of the things we do in our advanced class is doing a priming audit of your email sent folder. So a little quest you can do right now. Open up your email sent folder. Pull up five emails you spent some time. on that like had some stakes, right? Like not all emails do.

And I want you to count the number of positive words and the number of negative words. Even if there's a no in front of it, it doesn't count. So if it's like no worries, worries is a negative word. I don't know. I don't think we can make that happen. I don't think this time it'll work. Uh-huh. Oh.

Even, even I can't wait to see you. I'd rather say looking forward. Yes. Like it's just like using those words to like make the whole experience more productive. Yes. The thing, like, I think, and I've never said it this way, but I think the problem I have with quote unquote victim mentality is it also indicates a level of ignorance to me.

And I know this is going to go, these people aren't going to like me saying this. Ignorant in the sense that there's too much data and too many stories and too much written in history of people that started as extreme victims and terrible circumstances that went on to go and be incredible successes. So, like I as an individual, if I look at all that data, I say, look at how rough this person had it. Or look at this person who immigrated with nothing and became something. Or look at this person who, you know, had the worst family upbringing and went and made. As long as you see that that data exists, you understand that it's possible if you have the right mindset. So to me,

a victim mentality is just not self-serving enough to have. Right. It's just, it doesn't, it doesn't harm anyone but yourself. Yeah. And people with victim mentalities, they, all the data, they say, I am so unlucky, I'm going to ignore the data. Which is a terrible thing. Or I'm so different and so much more unique than everyone else. And that's actually more narcissistic. Yeah. It's actually more narcissistic to say, I am so above everyone else's data. I get such, I'm so unlucky that I can't have the success. So I need more help. I need more, I need people to make excuses for me, right? They're constantly making excuses. There's actually one more narrative I would love to talk about because I bet you, I bet you people listening are this one. The one that interests me

the most actually is the healer self-narrative. A healer self-narrative is someone who, their entire story, their entire way of seeing themselves as being of service. Typically, they pick service-based industries, teachers, counselors, doctors, coaches. And that is because, maybe because their parents or their childhood, they have found that helping people being of service of others is the only way that they can find value. So a healer self-narrative is beautiful because they are givers, they are changers, they are teachers, but they struggle with people pleasing. They over-extend. They say yes to two much and burnout, and they also can attract takers. Dementors? Dementors. Yes. Like, like Dementors. That's all I can think of. I would like to know if you were to wave a wand and give everyone who's listening

six quick things. On your book, there's six. Maybe you could go through the six of things that they can do. And I know Michael asked this a little bit, but I want to go really broad. I want to do six, that people can go leave this podcast with. Okay. First would be check your profile picture and never, ever show contempt. And that is in person, that's on face, that's on video, that's in your photos. So contempt, one of the cues on Captivate, is a one-sided micro-expression. So I have a very symmetrical face on that book.

And profile pictures, the big mistake you will make is they do like an asymmetrical smile. And asymmetrical smile is actually a universal expression of scorn. So if you actually hold it, they'll end up feeling kind of like better than contemptuous. It's a very negative expression. We don't like asymmetry in the face. So it's a very weird one. But I would wave my wand and I would get rid of every contempt or smirk in profile photos, in meetings. Dr. John Gottman did a marriage study and he studied married couples for 30 years.

And he wanted to know which couples was together and which couples would get divorced. And he found that there was a predictor of which couples would get divorced. He can tell you with 92% accuracy if a couple will get divorced within 30 years by looking for contempt. He found the couples who got divorced in the initial intake interview showed contempt towards the other. Contempt to me is so vague. Like what does that mean? If Lauren answered a question here and I was like giving her like, oh, it was stupid. Right.

So like contempt would be like. Like making me feel stupid? What is it like? Explain how like we could show contempt. Okay. So it would be like in a couple and Dr. Dr. John Gottman's research, it would be like the couples were talking about how they keep their home. And the wife might say, oh, he's just so dirty. He's so silly about that. And so like, there's this one-sided

mouth phrase, which is like, I am better than him at that. And I feel disrespected. Contempt is a sign of disrespect. I feel disrespected by how he treats our home. It's like a not a great example, but it gives, it's a very direct, right? It's like, it shows a little bit of disrespect and a little bit of better than. So you, We see contempt in our lab. I love watching like lie detection videos where I have people lie to me on video and then I watch their facial expressions. Contempt usually happens when someone feels like they bested you. Like I would never do that. I would yeah, I would never, I would never do that.

It's almost judgment. Judgment, for sure. So the marriages that break down are the marriages where there's a seed of better than disrespect. I can do better than you. I'm judging you. And so if I could wave a magic wand, it would be to get rid of that judgment piece. get rid of that better than peace because no one is better than you. No one is better than you.

We think differently. We have different opinions. But even if someone has a victim self-meritive and you have a hero self-narrative, it doesn't make you better than, which makes you different. So I would waive the feeling of I am better than you and judgment. And I would also waive the physical symptom that shows up on dates and meetings and interviews and negotiations on profile pictures. Where can everyone find your books?

Captivate the Science of Succeeding with People and also master the secret language of charismatic communication cues, small signals, incredible impact. Okay, so if you're into body language, if you want to know the 97 cues that we coded, you want to read cues. That's all about very microhacks to changing your behavior. If you want to read more about being likable, being captivating in conversation, I would try captivate. I do the audible if you like my voice. There are, of course, wherever books are sold. And all of my YouTube videos are free and I have tons of stuff on sensitive people.com. One last question before you go. Why is John F. Kennedy so charismatic. Okay. So this is a case.

study I did in my book, and this is that the reason why we like John F. Kennedy is because he uses poised, elegant, nonverbal. And this is, we like people who don't have extra movement. It's like a crazy thing. But nervous people, like nervous gestures are people who fidget a lot, or they have gestures that don't help their cause. Kennedy, or people who use gestures, are using their gestures to help you comprehend. So the best TED Talkers, John F. Kennedy, would say, I have three big ideas and hold up the number three. That was a gift to you, the listener, to be like, wow, every movement is purposeful. So we can actually use that with, if you want to come across as powerful or elegant, you want to control your movement to make it extremely purposeful.

So it's almost like grounding movement without a lot of fidgeting. Yeah, no fidgeting. I would actually say no fidgeting and no self-touch. The self-touch is really, I'm trying really hard to not flutts with my hair. Like this whole interview, I'm trying so hard to not touch it. And that is because research shows we touch our face, our confidence scores immediately go down. Immediately. We touch our hair, confidence scores immediately go down. That's so interesting. So I am trying very hard.

If I'm using a movement, I'm using a purposeful gesture. I'm using a punctureator with my hands. I'm not self-touching my face, my hair, my wrist, my ring. I don't have pockets of my dresses because I don't want to touch them. So purposeful controlled movement shows purpose of movement. Wow. Damn. Because I've always wondered ever since I've always wondered ever since I've.

was a little girl, I always like, like, associate charisma with him. And I, I wasn't even alive when he was, like, that's wild. The memory. Oh, also another purposeful movement is nodding. So nodding. So look at the difference. So if I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh, I look like I'm really interested in engaged versus, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, like a bobbleheader. That is a purposeless movement, right? Bobbleheading is a really, another wave of my wand would be no more bobbleheading versus a purposeful. triple nod shows, I am agreement. And Kennedy was very, very good at that. Tell me more. Yeah, and the bobble almost makes me feel like you're speeding me along. Yeah, it's in patience. That he knew what he was doing innately? Or do you think that it was actually strategic? I think he was very charismatic naturally, but I know from history that he was coached very specifically before his, that he, Nixon believes he lost the entire presidential election in the first 30 seconds of their debate. So I break down the first 20 seconds of the debate in my book. like second by second because Kennedy is very still.

He does a very slow nod, which we love, whereas Nixon is like self-touching. He has like jerky gestures. He's like touching his legs. He's gripping his chair with like a white knuckled fist. All those cues before they even speak, you've decided who's the winner. I think what's so interesting about this is even if you're naturally charismatic, you can always refine it. Always.

And I think the real pros are constantly refining it. And if you're not, you're not evolving it. Yeah. Well, I think the worst thing, and again, I say this to my... I just fidget it into my hair. It's okay. It's okay. Lauren says this is harsh, but like what drives me nuts sometimes is when people say like, well, that's just who I am. It's like, well, you can change who you are. Yeah.

Like that, if you know who you are is not working for what, for where you want to go and, like, listen, if you, if you're being who you are and you're happy with where you're at in your life, God bless you. Yeah. But if you're being who you are and you're not where you are, which, where you want to be in life, like, maybe you got to change a little bit about who you are. You've got to improve yourself. You've got to change it. Like there's nothing that drives me more nuts when my friends and I'll just relate it to dating are maybe trying to date a girl. And they're like, well, I'm just being myself and like this is who I am. I'm like, buddy, that's why it's not working. You got to change a couple things, you know? Yeah. And also I think the most charismatic people are constantly working on their charisma.

Constantly. For sure. I love this episode. I find this whole topic fascinating. You're welcome to come back on. I know you'll write another book whenever you do. Yeah. And I'm four minutes down the road. I know you're local. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to fidget. You look great.

I was just thinking about you. I love it. I'm working on anything exciting lately. Vanessa, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you, Vanessa. Thanks for having me. Two things before you go. You can watch us now on YouTube.

So you can go on YouTube, search the Skinny Confidential, and watch our entire episodes on your computer or TV. Also, you should know Michael and I are doing a him and her newsletter. So basically, It's a him and her tip of the day, five days a week. And the tips are very specific, as you can imagine. And then we also have a monthly favorites. So basically we collect all our monthly favorites, everything we bought and used and tried and put it in one monthly newsletter for you. To subscribe to the him and her tip newsletter, all you have to do is go to tscpodcast.com. That's tsdeepodcast.com.