The Bossticks - How To Increase Your Energy, Focus, & Fitness Ft. Michael Brandt, CEO of HVMN

Episode Date: April 3, 2024

#681: Today, we're sitting down with Michael Brandt, CEO and co-founder of Health Via Modern Nutrition, avid runner, and biohacker. With the launch of Ketone-IQ, Michael and his team created an entirely new category of ketone shots, which have taken over elite sports and high-end workplaces. Today we dive into all things high-performance, energy development, and entrepreneurship. We discuss everything from ""losing"" on Shark Tank turning into his biggest investment opportunities, how to hack your morning routine, to the truth and common denominator of successful entrepreneurs.   To connect with Micheal Brandt click HERE To connect with HVMN click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential & HVMN    Visit hvmn.com/SKINNY to save 30% off your first subscription order of Ketone-IQ™ This episode is brought to you by Armra ARMRA Colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, activates hair growth and skin radiance, and powers fitness performance and recovery. Visit www.tryamra.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Saie Saie: Award winning Clean and Planet Positive makeup brand sold exclusively at Sephora. Shop now at sephora.com This episode is brought to you by Vegamour Give your hair the power of the little pink bottle. Visit vegamour.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by Nerdwallet NerdWallet lets you compare top travel credit cards side-by-side to maximize your spending, some even offering 10X points on your spending. Visit nerdwallet.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by Arrae Visit arrae.com and use code SKINNY to receive 15% off your first purchase or autoship order. This episode is brought to you by Nike Find your feel with Nike Bras & Leggings that deliver supportive flexibility and comfort for whatever your day brings. Shop now at nike.com/women Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

You want to be memorable. You want to be something that's not remembered. It's like when you think about great art, Like half the people think it's ugly, stupid. Like, this shouldn't be up in the museum. But like all this stuff that's like very good. Yeah, that's what's like hanging up at the, at the Hyatt. Like that's, you know, nice art.

That's, but like the really good stuff that like changes the world. It's like, yo, that can of soup is stupid. That's not art. I could do that. But then like it's that the really provocative, remarkable stuff that like flips it on its head that like no one's really done before. As an entrepreneur, you got to be tough on it because I think four out of five people, especially in the early days, like the reporters or the investors or people

you're pitching your product to be, they're not going to get it. So you really have to find your tribe of people. And you have to, if you're going to buy the ticket of being weird and out there, then you've got to take the ride of the fact that like a lot of people aren't going to get it at first. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. Today, we're sitting down with Michael Brand, who's the CEO and co-founder of health via modern nutrition, also known as HBMN. Michael is an avid runner and biohacker. And with the launch of ketone IQ, a product that Lauren and I both love, which we're going to talk about in this episode, how to get into better ketosis.

Michael and his team created an entirely new category of ketone shots, which have taken over elite sports and high-end workplaces. Today, we dive into all things, high performance, energy, development, and entrepreneurship. We discuss everything from losing on Shark Tank, then turning into one of his greatest investment opportunities, how to hack your morning routine to truths and common denominators of successful entrepreneurs. This episode's for anyone that's interested in striking out on their own path, taking better care of themselves, building a business of their own, doing things differently. It's really

an inspiring story. And Michael is an inspiring character. With that, Michael, welcome the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. It's like if you sit down to buy Coca-Cola and like Pepsi's the top ad, like shouldn't Coca-Cola be able to win that customer more easily? Like, you should be willing to pay more than your competitor for that ad. Are you talking about ads or like the actual pages? Just to give the audience context, I'm saying that when you search skinny confidential mouth tape on Google. Yeah. Mouth tape competitors are trying to steal my SEO.

They're scared. They're shaken in their boots. Yeah, they're skimming it. And we're just having a conversation that you guys are privy to and I'm just asking both of the Michaels their opinions. Yeah. I used to work at Google actually. Well, there it is.

I can't fix the problem for you, but we can postulate on what it might be. I love it. Let's pause. Let's pause. When I first got connected and met Michael, We went over Zoom. I was like, this guy needs to come on the show because we've been talking about HBMN and on the show for a bit. And we've been aware of it. Many of our friends use it, take it. My sister takes it religiously now. People love the product, which we're going to get into.

But you personally have a wild background and an eclectic life. And I just thought having you on to tell your story and talk about everything you're doing with an interesting. So if you were going to give like a broad overview or brief introduction to who you are, where would you even? and start at this point. Before we do this, can we please take our shot? Let's do it. So what are we doing? Tell us how we're going to feel when we take this shot. We're having a shot of ketone IQ, high performance energy. I created this with a large multi-million dollar contract with the Department of Defense Special Operations Command. No big deal. And this is not going to make me stay awake all night. It's not going to make you stay awake all night.

It's energy where the energy is coming just from ketones, no sugar, no caffeine. Your brain loves ketones. We'll get into all of this. But the one sentence is, is high performance energy comes from ketones. It tastes a little crazy. You guys don't mind. Some people, it tastes really crazy because it's fermented. It says appetite control. I love a little appetite control. No, it doesn't, it doesn't bother me, but I'm also one of those guys where if I know it's good for my body and I know, like, oh, my brain is telling me like, I like it. Yeah, yeah.

What if fisting up your ass was good for your body? Would you let me fist you up your ass? I don't know, Lauren. Let's let's not go there. Okay, so let's get into it. So your background. Yes. Okay. I studied computer science at Stanford, got really into technology and then biohacking in particular. So a decade ago, I was early on wearing continuous glucose monitors, tracking my footsteps. Seeing that basically all these sensors on and in the human body, that was a real trend that was taking off. Like a decade ago, no, not as many people were doing it. Now it's like 50 million people have wearables and devices. And it was obvious to me that if everyone's objectively measuring their health, that the things that we eat are going to change drastically.

Like, I don't know what a goji berry does for your health. Like, it doesn't register necessarily. I'm not trying to, like, poop on anyone's startup. There's a lot of, like, health and wellness trends that, like, don't measurably move anything. But when we're all wearing some sensor in our human body, our body's becoming this, like, platform, and we can see our sleep score, our heart rate variability, our blood glucose. And in that world, like, what actually moves the needle?

Like, what actually makes you perform better that you can actually observe and measure? So I came in as a big nerd, like a big computer science guy looking at the human body as a platform and like what should exist that doesn't exist that can move performance and health outcomes and looked at a lot of stuff. Look at like hundreds of different ideas and came to ketones. Got this large contract with the Department of Defense to develop a pure ketone drink and have been building that for many, many years. Hold on, Michael. How does one get in touch with this department? Like you don't just email them cold. Right. It's the biggest like organization on planet Earth. The US DOD is a trillion

dollar a year budget. It's like the people talk about selling in a Fortune 500 companies. Like if the DoD was a company, it'd be like number one. It's huge. So you got to like, you got to knock on a lot of doors. You got to network in a lot. You got to fill out a lot of paperwork. You got to, yeah. How long did it take you to get them? It took years. And yeah, it took years. So early on we got investment from a group called Andrewsson Horowitz. It's their large Silicon Valley investor. They really liked our thesis of doing like tech-based nutrition. And we were still early.

This was like pre-ketones. Like we were still kind of incubating ideas. They have really good connectivity into the DOD. And then we just found other ways. And as an entrepreneur, it's like hard to explain it. It's like you kind of manifest it and you just get it done. You find that you find how to do it. Yeah.

Once you put your intentions to it, it's like you meet someone who knows someone and this person, this other investor knew someone else at their firm that was an ex commander of seal team seven. You just like meet people and when you really have a goal and you are extroverted founder type person, you just meet like it ends up kind of falling into place. I don't know if that's the best answer because like everyone's path is so special. It's like how did you guys end up here? Like everyone would love to host their only super popular podcast. Like how'd you do it? It's like your path is pretty special to you. For us, it's just like, we had this intent of like, hey, let's do really hardcore deep.

tech inside of nutrition and it would be cool to work with a DOD and kind of manifested it. Let me ask you a question. As you were looking at all of this data and think in the early, early days before you decided to go down ketones and you were looking at everything else and quote unquote like what actually moved the needle with the body. What were other things that you saw that you found interesting that maybe that wasn't your path, but you're like, hey, that is still interesting or, you know, maybe I should have looked at that harder or anything that sticks out? Sleep is really interesting. There's a lot of different supplements around sleep with like magnesium and L-theneen and different

types of mushrooms and different and not just on like the nutritional side, but on the like sleeping at a cooler body temperature or sleeping in certain times of the day. So I think like the whole area around sleep and like sleep is super impactful as well to your performance. Sleep is super interesting. Sleep's an area where if I wasn't thinking about ketones and like metabolic health there that I think sleep is super interesting. So why did you land on key?

What was the thing that tipped it for you? I'm a big marathon runner. I run six minute miles for the marathon. And I'm just really into endurance sports. And when you get good at running and your body does these certain adaptations, you got to get really good at metabolism. And your body gets really good at, among other things, your body gets really good at making and using ketones.

So I kept seeing that coming up. And I was thinking like, okay, if your body's making and using all these ketones and you're pushed to its limits, why can't you just go to the store and buy a, buy ketone. It's this great energy your body makes. Why can't you go buy it the same way you can buy a collagen or protein or apple cider vinegar or anything else? If you were going to explain ketones to a kindergartner, not that our listeners are kindergartners, but if you were, I'm a kindergartner when it comes to ketone. You put the glasses on. We're getting, we're like, I'm getting, I'm getting serious. If you were going to just like, before we dive and everything,

just, you know, talk about ketones to the audience. How would you start? It's a form of energy. your body needs energy all the time. If you're running, you need energy. If you're lifting weights, you need energy. If you're thinking hard, you need energy. If you're sleeping, you're recovering from the day's activities. You need energy. Your body's always using energy.

The process of making energy is called metabolism. Maybe people remember that. Maybe more advanced than kindergarten, but maybe remember high school biology. Your mitochondria is the power plant of your cell. So you're always turning the stuff that you're eating into cellular energy. And ketones are really good at that. ketones are a really good source of energy for yourselves. They're really efficient. They don't require as much oxygen. They feel really nice. Like when you're drinking ketones, like your

brain especially likes ketones, so they feel really nice. So they're form of fuel. The same way sugar is a fuel. Ketones are a fuel. They're macronutrient. There's calories inside of it. And it's a fuel. And it just works really efficiently. How did you become this smart, man? Like, have you always been this smart? Are you just a smart kid? Like, what was your childhood like? Are you just naturally smart? Because you, I mean, the first thing I noticed about you is you're smart. Thanks, Lauren. You got to ask my parents.

I don't think I was the easiest kid growing up. And it's something I reflected. I have a two-year-old daughter. And she's pretty high functioning too. Like, she's a very curious cat. And like, I see some similarities or just like everything's super interesting to her. I think everything's just interesting. I was, I got in a lot of trouble as a kid.

I was like, I was always standing up. And now everyone's got like, they're standing down. But I would just always get yelled at for like standing too much, being asking too many questions. Like I remember like I would like correct my teacher because they'd get like the math problem wrong and I'd be like I'd like make fun of them and then I'd go to detention and like I think that I was always I've always just been a little bit. I was curious.

I don't think I'm like that much smarter than people. Maybe I'm more curious and I like follow things through all the way. And yeah, I don't. It's not like I just like wake up in the morning and know all the answers to all the math problems. I just like, I think I just. just like spin a lot in my head. It's a hard question to answer. How do you, I don't know. I don't know if I'm smarter than. No, I just think I think it's like it's not as, I mean, listen, there's a ton of brilliant people, but there's into your point about follow through. But I think what's interesting

about meeting people like yourself is, you know, you've also become an entrepreneur and you've taken something out of thin air and an idea out of your head based on science that you've followed and you've created a product that's groundbreaking that so many people we know are taking it love. And I think like that is, that's what's interesting because it's like seeing it in action and creating something from nothing, right, that actually could drive a positive impact. I think like that is, that is less common than just being smart. It's also unique to cat, like it's a unique category. It's super unique. And I think there's nothing quite like it. And one of my favorite books is this book called First and Thirst. It's the Gatorade book about how they created electrolytes in

1965 with the Florida Gators and they had this whole insight that if you're sweating balls in the Florida swampy heat that water alone doesn't hydrate you as well. Your sweat clearly contains things besides water. So what if you had electrolys? And the whole story of how it took them decades, right? They were working on it since the 1960s. And it was like decades before they got like Michael Jordan and all the cool like 1990s Gatorade ads. Remember those ads where like they're like sweating blue and red like beads of Gatorade? That was like three decades into their story. This is that idea of taking something like this hard science insight and then building a really cool, like the coolest brand, at least in like the 90s. I was like the coolest brand, them and Nike.

It was like the coolest brand of the 90s. And that took a while. And I think it was cool that it came from like real science. I think generally maybe what makes us different is that like it's really like science at the core. Like I didn't come from like a marketing background or like a CPG background or anything like that. I came in as kind of like curious nerd ball. And then I've learned a lot about, like, we're now in Sun Life Organics. Our friend Khalil's spot, we're in Sprouse, we're in every equinox in America.

Like, I've learned all that stuff. Like, where I came from was the more just like hard science world. Yeah, and well, I think that's the product speaks to that because you could tell this was something that wasn't like, this didn't just exist on a shelf or in a white label. Like you've actually like created and invented something here. To go deeper on ketones, how, you know, what happens as we progress through life? and do we start producing less? Is there a reason? Do we start, like, is there instances where we produce more? If it's, if you're talking about as an energy source, what are things people can do naturally to start boosting it more often? That's a great question. Yeah, a couple of things

that make your body make its own ketones already. Like, ketones, your body's made ketones for forever, for 300,000 years. Like humans make ketones. We always have made ketones. The things that make your body make ketones are cardio. So being active, eating generally lower carb, like less sugar. What happens in either of those cases, whether you're doing cardio or whether you're not eating a lot of sugar to begin with, is that your body will run low on blood sugar,

and it will start burning fat and turning into ketones. Because I know people want to put themselves into ketosis and me not being a scientist, and I know there's a lot of prominent health professionals that talk about that being beneficial at times. Is that partly the intention for this? When you take it in, what happens to the body when you do get into ketosis. So we're all in ketosis right now because we just had a shot 10 minutes ago.

Oh, okay. See, I don't understand that. So because I took this shot, my body is in ketosis now. Yeah, meaning that you have elevated ketones in your blood. Got it. And that's the main intention is to get elevated ketones in your blood by taking this product. So you can basically instantly get into ketosis. You're instantly in ketosis and now you have ketones flying around your bloodstream that your muscles can use, your brain cells can use, cells and your heart can use. Like, Your body can use those ketones for fuel for all the things going on. And your brain especially likes ketones. When I was like, I want to say I was like 25, I did Lindora, which is like a weight loss program.

And you had to take like a P test or something to check that you were in ketosis. They wanted you in ketosis to lose weight. Yeah. When you say I'm in ketosis from this shot, does that have to do with weight? It kind of does because it's replicating a lot of the things that you're doing. when you're doing a keto diet or doing a lot of cardio. It's interesting because you don't have to do, I'm not doing the keto diet right now,

but I'm in ketosis because I just drink ketone IQ. And it replicates a lot of the effects of a keto diet. So, for instance, it helps to control appetite. Like when you have ketones in your system, your body's not as hungry. There's this really interesting study done where they had people have drink the same amount of calories from ketones and from sugar, like 100 calories of both.

And the group that had ketones was significantly less hungry, and when they did blood tests for ghrelin, the hunger hormone, the ketone group also had a lot lower, just objective scores of ghrelin. So ketone IQ is this way to like get into ketosis and replicates some of the things that people like about the keto diet. The keto diet's a pain in the butt, like for a lot of people, I don't know, carbs are good too. I'm not, I think it's good to avoid too much excess sugar, but I also don't recommend for everyone to like go do a hardcore keto diet. I don't think that's great either. What's interesting about ketone IQs, you can get some these benefits without doing the full-blown keto diet.

What are your thoughts on the semi-glutide that's happening? Because I feel like you are someone that would know about everything that's going on because of the business that you're in. It's interesting for sure. It's definitely like more hardcore. I think if what we're doing is a hammer, that's like a sledgehammer, the ozambic, semi-glutai, just the general like hard pharmaceutical stuff. I think it's interesting for some people, but it's definitely more like,

hardcore. Yeah. There's definitely like more side effects and things to consider with it. It sounds like with this if you wanted to like this is a good way if you wanted to start managing your energy levels a little bit more and you wanted to potentially suppress your, I don't want to say suppress, but manage your appetite and your hunger a bit. This is maybe like an initial step you would take besides you before deciding to take the sledgehammer approach. Yeah. Yeah. It just helps you control your appetite, feel nice energy, especially mentally.

And yeah, you're not that hungry. It's cool. How do you integrate this into your day? I'm a big runner. So when I'm running, I have ketones on top of the, like I'll have like a banana and ketones in the morning. And I just like a really nice form of fuel. Ketones are interesting because they go through this different pathway than carbohydrates. They're just a different form of fuel.

So a lot of athletes like it because I'll have it on top of their normal stuff so that they have more metabolic substrates going through more different channels in their, body. How many can you take a day? On our package, we say limit at three and a half. So walk me through an ideal day. Is it three in the morning or is it three throughout the day? I have one in the morning. It's a nice way to just like wake up and feel energetic. I just feel like clicked on. A lot of people like have replaced their coffee with it or they'll have it on top of their coffee. It's just like a morning stack. You know like bulletproof coffee or like MCT coffee? A lot of people are familiar with that. The whole idea of MCT is it's a medium chain trigly is a form of fat that turns into ketones. That's a whole reason people are interested in MCTs, is that it's a type of fat that because of the chain length of the triglyceride, it turns into ketones relatively easily.

We've just skipped this step. So this is just like a straight ketones. So a lot of people have ketone IQ with their coffee or they'll have it instead of their coffee and just feel this energy rush in the beginning of the day. And then they'll have it like, yeah, once or twice else throughout the day to kind of re-up, like before a podcast or something. Can you fast and take this too? Is it going to break you out of your fast? That's something people love doing because it extends your fast. You're not having any sugar. You're not spiking your blood

glucose. You're not spiking your blood insulin. So it's fasting compliant in those ways. It makes it really easy to carry over your intermittent fast until noon or whatever you're trying to do. What are some mistakes that you see because you know so much about ketosis that people make when it comes to ketosis. Because everybody says like keto season when they're like, maybe like it's like summer's coming up or spring break. Like if you were going to, if you were going to follow that diet, like what are some of the things that you've learned?

Yeah. It works really well. I've seen for people who do it in like a sprint. They do like 60 days to get beach bod ready or to like fit in the wedding dress or like I think it works well for those like if you got to shed some weight, like do the keto diet. I think people have a harder time doing it long term. some people truly love it. They just truly feel good

or their body just does not deal well with carbs and they just are, they've been, you know, keto since 2017. Like those people definitely exist. I think for most people, keto diet is more of this like tool to use on a, on a temporary basis to like hit some weight loss goal. And then when you return to normal diet,

what I would say is what works really well for people is like, incorporate maybe some of the learnings where, again, if once you go back to normal diet, you're incorporating carbs and stuff. But like, I think on a keto diet, one thing that everyone should try it, I think, once. Again, I'm not doing it hardcore. Like, I'm not a big keto diet ban, but I think it's worth trying because you start learning their sugar in everything. There's sugar in your salad dressing. There's sugar in your ketchup. There's sugar

everywhere. And then when you, if you try that out, then when you return to a normal diet, like carry over some of those like, oh yeah, when I have tacos, like, I don't know, the, the taco itself. It's almost like an awareness of what all the ingredients are that you're normally eating. Yeah, exactly. That, like, there's more sugar in things than maybe you thought that, like, pasta is actually like, yeah, that your body just turns that pasta into sugar right away. And, like, there's different forms of carbohydrates. Like, certain carbohydrates are more fibrous. Like, a potato is not the same as a bag of candy, even if it has the same amount of carbs, because the potato has starches and fibers in it that basically slow down the release of sugar into

your bloodstream. So, like, not all carbs are the same. I think you learn a lot when you try, like, a keto or lower carb diet that you can, like, reincorporate back when you do a normal diet. it later on. Let's talk about Armoura Colostrum. Lauren and I have been absolutely obsessed with Armour Colossum ever since we interviewed the founder on this show. Check out that episode. If you just search Armour, The Skinny Confidential, it will pop up.

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If you do a pee test after drinking this, so you're saying you will be in ketosis. Oh, definitely. I often carry around. I might have it even in my backpack is like a blood test. You can do like a blood finger player. I have like calluses on my whole finger like a guitar player,

except I'm not a guitar player. I'm just a big nerd. And I do like blood testing. Because we've done like so many different variations on our product and tests over the years and with all the running idea. I'm always like testing my blood ketone levels and blood glucose levels.

And you can, the best way to do it is like the finger blood stick. The next best way is you can do a P test or there's breath tests. The best is blood. blood, but you got to actually pick yourself. Wait, doesn't ketosis make your breath smell? Does this make your breath smell? Not really. Like the ketosis is when you're like deep in ketosis. Yeah, people will have like acetone breath because like your body's like, yeah, some people will get

like keto breath from being deep in ketosis. But you're okay on this? Yeah, people don't really get like bad breath from it. I think like. Why don't you launch a keto breathment? Yeah. that you can have after you have your keto shot. Yeah. That would like help you to get the Department of Defense to fund it. To fund the breathments. Yeah. You have built a multi-million dollar brand.

I want to talk about the entrepreneur side. Oh, I'd love to. Yeah. First of all, tell us how you sort of had the intuition to get into this and how you've maneuvered throughout this whole entire journey. Because as we know, it's not easy. How did you start? What's it been like?

what's your day to day like? It started off as curiosity is very much a science fair project, me and my co-founder and trying things out, very small team, very science-driven. And it's been really important to get partners, like great partners help, like, especially because where we come from is like more of a technical world is like, is really important for us to work with people that can help get the word out. I think a lot of entrepreneurs, you have to have some home field advantage. Some entrepreneurs have like awesome platforms and maybe they need like a technical co-founder to help like build something interesting or some people are like really technical. They've invented a flying shoe, but they have like 12 followers on Instagram that got known to

tell about it. Usually I would say like usually entrepreneurs fall into one of those camps where they're like either really good and like extroverted to have a lot of like people, friends and platform or they're like just technical wonk and can do incredible stuff but like maybe haven't figured out how to get it out there. I think the best companies have both. The best companies truly become both. You become like Apple where it's like technical and sexy. We definitely start out more technical for sure and then have like figured out, man, we've gotten some cool people like Joe Montana's investor, Jake Paul is an investor. I'm here with you guys. Like we're like, we get like just cool different partners and the works never never finished. Like once you're

in sprouts, it's like, oh, let's get into Whole Foods. Once you're in Whole Foods, it's like, oh, let's get into Costco and Target. Once you, cool, you, like, can we get Taylor Swift drinking it? Like, you're always, like, trying to, like, figure out the next level of the game. Does that help answer to a question? I thought it was a good question. Totally. What's been your coolest moment?

Ooh, I was on Shark Tank. Yeah, tell us all about that. Wait, first, you have to tell us, because there's people who listening that want to get on Shark Tank. Tell us, like, the whole process of how you got on, then you have to tell us the during, and then the aftermath. Yeah. We've had Barbara on the show, and we've had a few people on the show that have been on Shark Tank. Some had deals that didn't happen after. Some actually did get funded out.

Yeah, I would love to hear the. Shark tank's super interesting. So, yeah, I'll just say up front. Like, we ended up not getting a deal. But I was still like do it again in a heartbeat because this is cool. It's like free sets and reps for telling your story. It's really important to do as a founders. Get out there and tell it.

Probably kicking themselves now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we've raised it a higher valuation than what we were pitching the sharks from like other, you know, big, legit investors. So like, it's all loved. though. It's like, I think we learned a lot. It's a free ad for your product in prime time. Because even if the sharks don't invest, you'll still like, people will still like text me, tag me all the time. Like, they see it on a rerun on the back of their like Delta Airlines,

like flight, you know, the TV there. They'll like see. I'd like to pitch the sharks and they'm not invest. You're right. It's a free commercial. Why did you decide to do it? Like, tell me about the application situation. So I, we got a little lucky where they reached out to us. We're like, hey, you guys are interesting. Well, like, I don't know, it can't. It's hard to replicate. I think we were making a lot of noise at the time. Like, we were just very, like, biohackers from Silicon Valley. We were talking a lot about intermittent fasting. And it was because I'd worked at Google, which at the time was, like, very famous for like free food, delicious chefs, like, and I left Google and was like running this biohacking company.

And I had this large community of intermittent fasting and out of Silicon Valley. And it was like a funny story in the press of like, oh, his ex-goalers not like starving his employees. I wasn't starving anyone. But like it made a right. It made. It made. a good, like, headline. So I think we're just making good, good amount of noise. And then Shark Tang's is like, oh, what do you guys actually do? Like, do you want to come pitch it on our, on our show? So I think, I think that's one thing I've learned is just like, yeah, how to like, you got to, like, be kind of, and as an entrepreneur, you got to be an idea virus. You got to figure out how to be a meme. You got to figure out how to get like into the consciousness. Like, you have to,

because like Pepsi or whatever has a way bigger budget. Like, the attention economy is nuts these days. It's really hard to stand out. You have to do something that's like a little bit weird and were the insights. We started doing that stuff and then Shark Tank caught wind. And then it kind of like replicates because now it's like, oh yeah,

like once you're on Shark Tank, then the next person wants to talk to you. The next one is, I don't know, it's kind of a video. Why did they not invest? What was the, was the,

you'd have to ask though. I think what they would say is that I think we came across a little technical at the time. Yeah. And I think they were like, you guys need to. Well,

yeah, because like even the reason I wanted to have you on the show is there is a real, to your point, technical element to this and how it was created. But I think, you know, what we try to be is filters sometimes to, at least to our audience

in kind of in a way, and I hate to use something, but like dumb things down to make it. So this is understandable. For me, the way I'm hearing this is like, if I want to have manageable natural energy levels and not maybe have to go to other substances, you can do this, if you want to potentially manage appetite and not jump to the sledgehammer, as you could use this, if you wanted to have maybe more productive workouts or productive podcasts and have your brain off. part. Like this is, it's just a quick way to do it and it doesn't disrupt your sleep and it's a natural way with no sugar and no chemicals, right? Did I just nail it? Yeah, it's really well said.

Yeah, you should pitch the sharks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but, but I think like we're always looking for stuff like this innovative stuff because to your point, there's like there's so much, there's so much information out there, even when it comes to diet, which I think we could talk about in a second. Like, people are just confused on what to do, what not to do, what works, what doesn't work, you know? But this is what I've realized. I just, got off the phone with with my PR and I was talking about mouth tape. I launched mouth tape, Skinny Confidential mouth tape. And they were like, well, people don't really know what to do with this. Like they don't like the editors are like confused about it. And to me, that means you're on to something

because it's the most disruptive things that actually make the noise in the end. I know that mouth taping is going to be like a toothbrush in three years. I think people will be taping their mouth shut like they scrape their tongue and they use a toothbrush. And there's kind of something that gets you off or gets me off. And I'm wondering if you feel the same, that your product, it's hard to take in at first because it's new and people are like, there's uncertainty around it. And it needs explanation because it is disruptive. Yeah. And it's so much true to what you're saying, Lauren, it's the mouth tape that you're doing is remarkable. Right. It's, it's hard to look away from. It's different. It's weird. There's all really good things. And like,

There's this, you want to like polarize people. Like the, I think the enemy as a entrepreneur is to be like very good. Like that's the worst spot to be where you're like, you know, seven and a half out of 10. It's like a deuce. But like you want to be like, this is amazing or like what the hell? Why is this lady sending me mouth tape? The best idea start out like that. Like liquid death is like a crazy name of Cala Water Company. Like the first iPhone, you go back. It's so funny. You go back and like look at the early reviews of the iPhone. Everyone's like, this is so stupid. This is only for. for like tech millionaires. It was like $1,200, didn't have any apps. It was stupid. What does Apple know about phones? No, thank you. I'm going to stick with my Blackberry. Like, the new ideas always sound completely insane. I think that's such a good insight, like, how it should really feel. Like, if your idea makes too much sense on day one, like, generally ideas get watered down over time as you build out your business. Like, if it doesn't start out with like 11 out of 10 spicy, weird, remarkable, there's that book Purple Cow with the guy Seth Go, in if people have heard of that one. It's like you, you see cows all the time. If you saw a purple

cow, you would remember it for the rest of your life. Like you want to be that. It's a great book, you want to be that purple cow. And if you're not on day one, you're only going to get more like normie over time. So you got to start out weird. So true though. Your product is a purple cow. It is. Yeah. And I'll give you like even like, I'm doing something different than both of you in a lot of ways. I'm running a media company. And a lot of the way we started this business, like a lot of the pushback I would get either from publications. or media agencies or advertisers is like they would be very flustered about the way we conduct some of the business here at Jemeter, the way we do things or some of our processes.

And they're like, well, it's always been done this way. You have to conform this way? And I was like, have you looked at all the media companies and legacy media companies that have just like crumbled and burned and fallen apart? It's like if they told me, hey, good for you. You're doing everything like everyone else. I'd be like, this is a cause for concern. Like we might have to shut this thing down.

And the whole thing is like, and I think this is good for any. entrepreneur, when you start something and you get that pushback and people tell you, this is not how things have been done or you're not doing it like everybody else, that should be taken as words of encouragement, not as words of despair. Because like if you're just coming in and doing it like everybody else, you're probably just a second rate version of what already exists. And some of those things that exist could be going away. If you're getting that pushback, it's likely because you're breaking the status quo and onto something new. And Michael, you always say when when a show pitches themselves to Dear Media.

And they'll be like, I'm going to be the next Joe Rogan. And Michael immediately is like, no. Like, don't be, use your own formula. You're not going to be, like, don't be the next anyone. Yeah, whenever I hear someone say they're going to be the next any, like, if somebody came and said, I'm going to be the next ketone IQ, I'm going to be the next HVMN. I would say, like, why? It's already, they already is the one.

You know what I mean? Like, I kind of just tune out. I had this amazing literary agent tell me today that when he decides to take on a book, that he wants people to either absolutely fucking love it or absolutely fucking hate it. He doesn't want indifference. Yeah. He wants an extreme reaction. And to your point, he doesn't just want good.

And your product, he doesn't want a seven. Your product is, is, reminds me of that. And it's like that mouth tape conversation I just had like reminds me of this. It's like people don't get it. But I kind of like love they don't get it. Yeah. How do you respond to that with your product? That you want to be memorable.

You want to be remarkable. You want to be something that's not remembered. It's like when you think about great art, like half the people think it's ugly, stupid, like this shouldn't be up in the museum. But like all this stuff that's like very good. Yeah, that's what's like hanging up at the hallway at the Hyatt. Like that's, you know, nice art. That's, but like the really good stuff that like changes the world.

It's like, yo, that can of soup is stupid. That's not art. I could do that. But then like it's that the really provocative, remarkable stuff that like flips it on its head that like no one's really done before. So I think you got to, as an entrepreneur, you got to be tough on it because I think four out of five people, especially in the early days, like the reporters or the investors or the early people that you're pitching your product to, they're not going to get it. So you really have to find your tribe of people. And you have to, if you're going to buy the ticket of being weird and out there,

then you got to take the ride of the fact that, like, a lot of people aren't going to get it at first. Like, if you're out there selling your iPhone on day one, like, most people are going to be like, that stupid, no thank you. I'll stick with my BlackBerry. And you just got to have, I mean, we all know, like, you got to have that thick skin to that. And then over time, it's just interesting. Like, I've been talking about ketones, ketone IQ for a while and like more and more people like, oh, like two years ago were like, oh, that is like, doesn't make sense.

Now they're like, oh, cool. Yeah. interesting. My trainer told me about that. Like, you see it like kind of trickling in and you just got to be good vibes about it. Like I truly like, if it wasn't the right thing for someone two years ago, if they wanted to stick with their Blackberry, like, it's all love. Like I'm not like judgmental. Like I'm a late adopter on a lot of stuff too. I'm early adopter on the stuff that I, we are all early adopters on the things that we like really care about if that's like health or fitness or beauty or fashion. But on a lot of things like I'm not trying to be the earlier

adopter on like stuff I don't, I don't really know about. I want to go to the restaurant that like people have already said is cool. Like I'm not trying to like go to every restaurant in town. I go to out to dinner like once a week with my wife. Like I want to go to the spot that's already like known good. So like we're all earlier later adopters. So there's no judgment on on people being late adopters. But within your area, you want to be like really targeting the early adopters. I think people are afraid of uncertainty and anything that they feel scared of. And so maybe the word ketone feels it feels it feels scary because they don't understand it. But I think you're right. Once you have more context around it and more understanding, it makes it easier.

to adapt to. And it's our job to make it, you know, more and more normal. It's just like layers of paint over time. Like what's, what's new to people now? Like, you know, one of our recent investors is Kurt from vital proteins and nutritional collagen wasn't a thing. Like collagen was something you put on your skin, right? It was like a topical cream. The idea that you would like eat it for stronger hair, skin, and nails. Like in 2010, that wasn't really a thing. And that had to really be explained, like, why am I doing that? What is that? And, and I think the best business is fundamentally, they have that. They have that, like, weird factor of like, no one's done this. It's going to seem weird to a lot of people, but, like, hang on with me. And then when you

keep on doing it for, like, years, decades, then, like, if what you're doing has, like, core truth to it, then I think you can just be patient as an entrepreneur. The early adopters become, like, the slightly less early adopters, become the normal people, become the late adopters. And, like, you just got to be patient with it. Here's what I want you guys to do. I want you to put your pink mouth tape on and a sip. In reverse order, you got to like, your ketones through the slit. Okay.

But you know, the way I describe sometimes, and this may sound arrogant, even some of the things we're involved with is I will tell people, whether it's an investor or a partner or a retailer or whatever it is, that these things are inevitable. And what I mean by that is whether like reporters or a market or an investor likes it or not, like it is happening to your point. I think a lot of entrepreneurs sometimes get discouraged because it doesn't happen right away. And so they're like, wait, the market's turning it down within my first year or first years.

The thing you, like I believe these things are inevitable, but that also is tapered with like, it may be inevitable, but it might take 20 or 30 years. I think we're just, we're so impatient and we're so quick to abandon something when we get a few nose right away. And so people don't stick with it. And to your point, like, you've been working on this a long time. You know, even when people talk about this podcast, like, oh, I love. love when you had so and so. I'm like, that was episode 700 or whatever, 600. And like,

you know, same for you. Like, you're, like, now people are talking about this. Now people are really liking it. Now it's in every equinox. Now it's in every, you know, won't food or wherever it is. But like, it didn't, it didn't, it didn't just happen. You know, you're patient. It's such a good point. Some of the best advice I've gotten is you want to find the secret that you know that no one else knows yet. And you need to have that duality. And it's hard, I think, for a lot of people exist in that duality of like something you know to be true. That your approach to media is in, It's like such a good word for it.

Like this is inevitable. And even when in the early days, it's like you got to like, like ask your mom that please subscribe on YouTube and like leave a comment, right? Like in the early days, like you're fighting tooth and nail for everything. We used to have to create social assets to show people where the podcast app was on their phone. Yep. Yep.

It's like here you go. And that idea that like how can it be inevitable? Like this is clearly going to be huge guys. And at the same time you're like explaining to people how to get the app on their phone. Like how can those both be true? Like there's like a duality to it. that you have to be able to occupy as a founder, if you have a vision that, like, this is inevitable.

This is a fundamental truth, but we're not there yet. And I think a lot of people get discouraged. Like, they, I mean, I don't know. I think you can, you just got to be able to listen to your own voice and, like, have some conviction on stuff. I think if you're, if the first, if you think it's a great idea, but then, like, the first five people you tell about it are like, oh, it's a bad idea.

And then you, like, what are you going to, like, wag your tail and go home? And, like, that's no, that's no way to build anything cool in the world. I think the duality is extreme. patience mixed with extreme persistence. And you have to like balance those. And then you also have to put your blinders on. Everyone's going to have an opinion. Yeah. I have another question for you that is in relation to this that I think many people. So you mentioned you were working at Google. I'm assuming that's a very like big company, stable environment, cushy work environment with massive buffet or whatever it is. Don't tell my team members hear that. We don't, we don't.

Don't get any ideas, Carson. And, you know, taking the leap from having that job stability and having an outlined potential growth path and all these things. You know, what are some of the biggest takeaways you took from working in a massive organization like that to entrepreneurship? And what was the thought process leaving something like that to go into this world of uncertainty? You know, I'm really glad I did it. I'm really glad I had time. I worked at YouTube actually. And it was cool to see like the inside of like the algorithm, like why, how do videos? get recommended. Like, what's the actual kind of machine behind all of that? I thought that was really cool. And just the ability to know how big company works. Because when you start your startup,

you're not going to have a product marketing team and a bunch of engineers and a PR team and an HR person and a legal team. Like, you're not going to have all of those parts. As a founder, maybe if you have a co-founder, a couple early people, like, you're just doing everything. You are customer success. You're the one emailing the reporters to get press coverage. You're the one handing out samples, like, you're doing all of that stuff. I mean, even still to this day. Like, we just got a giant inflatable keto and IQ, like, life-sized suit that arrived at my house. I'm like, dancing. I'm going to L.A. Marathon, handed out to people. So, like, you're always doing all these things. And I think it was, it was important for me to work at YouTube,

which is just a best in class business and see how all the functions work so that I know, okay, well, even at a company of like two or four, 10, or 20, like what all needs to happen. So I think big company experience is super important. helpful for any kind of entrepreneur. And then I would say the biggest thing I always say to everyone trying to make the jump is like build a platform because you can do that without quitting your day job. Or you can like build a following on pick your favorite platform, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, whatever. You can build a following while keeping your day job. If you like talking about, if you want to be a, if you want to get into parenting stuff, you can share like mommy recipes while

keeping your day job. If you want to get into health and nutrition, you can share fitness tips while keeping your day job. You can get 100,000 followers while keeping your day job. We started this podcast when we both had separate jobs and separate careers. So you know, yeah. And we started Dear Media when we had separate companies. We've never jumped into anything without having a little bit of stability. I think like that's worth being said because to your point, you can moonlight and create on all of these platforms on your time, you know, when you're not working at your day job. Yep, yep. And there's certain things that, like, I think, do demand full commitment that you really do need to take the jump. So it's, I think, helpful to think about, like, if you're trying to take the jump in, like, a year or two years or whatever, like, what can you start doing now, like, making a platform, getting a following, probably pretty good. I think when it comes to, like, physical production or really, like, deep design or definitely if you're going to, like, manage other people and those people are working full time, I think you kind of start going, but I think as well said, Michael, like, that you want to find the aspects that you can do while you still have your day job and, like, get the momentum going. What are the secrets of YouTube?

How do you get your videos, Jones? Tell us all the juicy secrets. They're always updating it and even they're opaque about it. Is galaxy brains you want to go on it, it comes back to like making really good content, like making stuff that people like and comment on and share. Shares are really big right now because people are more and more engaging with platforms in the DMs rather than like publicly liking things or publicly commenting. So it's really important to get like bookmarks and shares.

And this is changing all the time. Like two years ago, it would be different advice because people were more public about their actions. And it was less important to get the shares and the bookmarks. It used to be more just straight likes and straight comments. But good content is the key. And then there's, you can kind of optimize for little things.

But I think it's helpful to think through like what, whenever I'm making content is like, I mean, you guys are way better at content. But what I've learned in my less, expertise in you guys is that you like think through like why would someone bookmark this? Why would someone share this with a friend? Like is this just like pumping my own shit making me look cool or is this like actually delivering value to where like someone would share it to a

friend for a laugh or they're going to bookmark it for I do a lot of running content? Is someone going to bookmark this for when they're training for a marathon? Like is it actually meaningful or is this just like like me pumping my own? Oh, I look cool today. Quick break to talk about nerd wallet and I use them all the time as a resource when it comes in making financial decisions. One of the most financial decisions you can make is which credit card you actually want to use. There are so many different options out there with so many different rewards and benefits. They all have different perks and rewards and benefits that they offer. So having a platform like NerdWallet to kind of lay it all out on the table and figure out what's right for you

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sun every day. SunBum's new sunscreen thinks it's a moisturizer and that's a good thing. So they have three products. I really like the daily gel. This one is truly invisible. So how I use this is a makeup primer. I'll actually prime my skin before I put on makeup, which is amazing because I know I'm getting that 24-hour hydration with SPF 50 and it's sheer and invisible. Really, like it's actually sheer, which is awesome. They also have a daily face and this is more like your one and done moisturizer. This is awesome if you are on a time crunch or you're a busy mom and you just need to get something on your face. And then, and I'm really passionate about this, they have daily body. So this feels like your favorite body lotion, but with SPF, you can put it on in the morning and forget about it.

To have a body sunscreen that you go to, I think is really important because so many of us are so focused on our face that we forget the body. So you always want to have one like on your vanity ready to go. You can visit sunbum.com and use code skinny 15 at checkout. You get 15% off your first purchase. That's S-U-N-B-U-M-com code skinny 15 for 15% off your first order. Sunmum.com code skinny 15. You know what I've realized too, Michael and I have realized this? Like, I want to look smart, right? So what I notice when I share content, I want to look like the person who like has the information, even though it's not my information. Let me give you an example.

I'll send my dad Dr. James on Instagram, which is like lift weights, get your sunlight, eat your magnesium, and I'll send it to him. And as it's sending, I'll feel like I'm adding value to my dad's life, which makes me feel self-important. So what I've realized is like when people are sharing content, there's an aspect of feeling self-important while they're sending it to someone. Or like, I'll send Michael something about. how it's like bad to be on your phone in the morning.

While she's sending it from her phone in the morning. And but all feel there's like some kind of like dopamine hit that I get that's like I'm the one that's like being the educator or the facilitator is the right word of the content. Does that make sense? What I believe it is is people want to feel like they take part ownership over things, which is not a bad quality. It's like I will send a funny WWE wrestling meme from it says like some 90s account of like what you're doing in the 90s.

And that is my way of like passing my sense of humor to my friend, even though it's not my content. Or maybe you and I are talking and somebody sees like, hey, this was a really smart point that I think could help my friend. And it's in a way them taking ownership of this piece of content to help their friend. Does that make sense? So that's how I look through it through a lens now. And then how do you reverse engineer that as content creators? How do you tap into that? I think it comes back to creating things that are of a not so self-serving and are of value to

even when we think about this show, like there is a lot of self-service and we get a media interesting people and have the conversations we want. But our thought is always like, could one of these conversations go and impact someone's life in a positive way, whether they're laughing or they're taking something that changes their business or in this instance, maybe they're looking to take that entrepreneurial step or they're looking to have a more managed appetite or they want to have a better time in the gym. Like there's things, there's elements here where I believe if people are listening, they can take and like have a positive change, which is why like on this show, we never really get into

kind of like stuff that I think detracts, which is maybe like gossip or stuff that's harmful. Does that make sense? Totally. Like we take on heavy subjects, but I like, I always am trying to think about it and we're trying to think about it from the lens of like, if somebody turns this on in three or four years, could it still have a great or good impact on them or somebody they share it with? It reminds me, honestly, a lot of like fashion. Like when, if you're making, for people or coach or whatever for people that like you're giving them a way to express their identity like they're picking Nike today or they're picking Ralph Lauren today like why are

they picking that like they're using what you created as the creator of the fashion brand as a way to express their own identity because not everyone has it in them to like make their own total like fashion like who's making their own clothes right but that we use the the brands around us and the content around us as a way to convey parts of who we are. So ideally every day you could write a poem to your dad or whatever. But short of that, like, that's a lot of work, can you like send him something that's like pre-made by someone else that still conveys like 80% of what you would do if you made it yourself originally?

Like can you convey your identity by using the content that's around you? And then as content creators, it's like how do we provide people with those fundamental building blocks to let them express good things about themselves to the people that they care about. I also think it shows the person that you're like thinking about them. Like it shows my dad I care about him. I care about his health. It's, it's interesting. You and my dad's DMs are literally the weirdest shit I've ever seen. You screenshoted me something from my dad the other day that I these are things. You guys are sending each other like what is that? This is not appropriate. This is not appropriate. Let's put it this way. The DM meme that my dad sent to Michael is so inappropriate.

The fact that I'm married to, I mean, what are you saying? Brad's her dad saying. Brad, the DM you sent me the other day. Let's just put it this way. About eating pussy. It was, oh God. It was, have you ever seen Ace Ventura too? The pet detective or when nature calls? Why is my dad sending my husband DMs about eating pussy? It is a, it is, do you remember when Ace Ventura comes out of the rhino, the mechanical rhino in his face, what it looks like, it was a meme of something like what she sees when I'm down. And it was like, I'm like, I cannot believe my father-in-law is sending me this. Sorry, I'm sorry, immediately. I don't think my dad gets it. I was like, this is so fucking funny. I was like, I have to text my wife what her dad is saying. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Sorry, Brad. Talk to me. I'm going to pull that clip and send his mind. Talk to me about what it was like pitching Jake Paul and Kurt. of vital proteins. I want to know how you pitch them and how you got the deal done. Because those are some people that you might be intimidated to pitch. Yeah, you got to just talk to people like their regular everyday people. I think that's the biggest thing. I've learned like just meeting interesting stars or people who are at the top of their game is like everyone's just a person. And I

don't think people really like having too much smoke blown up their ass. I think that people want to just be talked to like a person. And like if you're excited about what you're excited about, then yeah, just like meet people where they're at. I try to just get to conversations as like soon as possible. Try not to like fan girl too hard. Try not to stand too hard. Just like talk to people about what's real with Jake Paul. So my co-founder, Jeff Wu, met Jake. They met in Miami. Jake was getting into boxing at the time. And a lot of elite athletes had been using our product. So Connor McGregor had been using it. His trainer was big into ketones for increased stamina, better energy, all that in the gym. And then,

my co-founder showed Jake was like, yeah, look, legit. Like, Connor follows me and like using ketone IQ for training. And then Jake was, oh, that's interesting. Let me start trying it. For us, we have the advantage, too, if it's like a real product, like people can kind try it around. You can, like, hand someone to sample in your pocket. And then Jake got into it and then got it just kind of rolled from there organically.

And then my co-founder, Jeff and Jake, they started something called anti-fund, which is, they do consumer investing and a bunch of interesting different stuff. So it just was natural from there to like cut in a check. And it's kind of like you can't force things either. When the fit makes sense, it makes sense. When he's investing and you're, you're getting these high profile investors, are they seamlessly integrating this into their content? Like is he drinking this on his stories or is it not like that? Is he primarily an investor?

And that's it. With Jake, it's mainly an investor. Like there's levels. Like when someone's like as big of a star as Jake, there's definitely levels to the game there for sure. because like there's just a lot of surface area when you're that level like mega sled. There's like, I don't know,

you're boxing. There's a logo on the, in the center of the ring. There's just on five podcasts every single day. What's in there? So like there's a lot of brands kind of around him. And so there's definitely levels to it. There's a difference between like cutting a check into a business that you're like,

you know, into or you like the team there versus like your, you're like title sponsor for your next big fight. So like, yeah, there's levels to it for sure. He's a businessman, huh? He's,

cool he's very multifaceted i would just say at this point anytime people hate on those guys and listen they know how to play like they know how to they know how to grab attention which is i'll say but like anybody that's hating on those guys like what they have done is remarkable like they you know one of them's in the wwe's got an amazing you know beverage line and one of them is boxing like people can say what they want about the boxing but he actually knows how to box and actually knows out of fight and he's knocking out some serious people like all of this this stuff is not like, hey, just fall in your lap. Like, you, you can't not be intelligent and on your game to get to the level they've gotten

He's on ketones. They're on ketones. Hey, he's on the ketones. They're mad, smart. They're living the American dream. They're two brothers from Ohio that made YouTube videos in their basement until they just got really big and famous. Like, you can hate them or whatever.

Like, cool. Like, they don't need to be your favorite creator that you like all their posts or whatever, but I think you've got to respect the game. Like, they are doing what I think a lot of people are. trying to do or wish they could do. And yeah, you might not have their exact same affect or sense of humor or whatever, but like, you know, they took what they were passionate about and made a full, like living lifestyle. They're creating a lot of jobs for a lot of people around them. Like, they're doing their things. I don't know. I think it's all love. What I, would I,

not to go on a tangent with them, but what I respect about both of them is breaking, like, take all the digital content aside, which is hard in itself. But like, you could tell both of them are passionate about the things they're doing now. Like, you know, it's not easy to break. into the WWE and get to be one of the, you know, biggest grossing names in that sport. And it's not easy to just all of a sudden say, I'm going to go into pro boxing and start having huge, you know, paper views. Like, these are, these are, like, these are lanes that are, have been traditionally a ton of gatekeepers in the way. And now these two guys have gotten it. Like, it's just, that has to be respected in itself. Before you go, you're the perfect person to ask

this. What are some other things that you do in your life to biohack your mornings and your night. What are some things that we need to start paying attention to that are these ketone mouth taping weird things that you're doing? I'm really into barefoot, like spending as much time barefoot as possible. Love it. Your feet are incredible machines. You have 20,000 nerve endings in your feet. Your feet are just like your hands. And there's all sorts of sensory deprivation that takes place if you're just inside of a shoe all day. Like you're supposed to interact with the world around you. I do a lot of running barefoot because it just makes me a better runner. It forces you to do things like take quicker steps, your foot hits the ground the right way. Like a shoe with all the

chunkiness rubber and all that, it can really mute your foot's ability to read the ground around you. And so then that leads to your foot's hitting the ground the wrong way. And then your knees hurt and your chin's hurt. The more I started barefoot running, the less, like all my pain went away. And it's totally counterintuitive. Because I want, you go from having like two inches of rubber between you and the cement to like, like it's you. I'll wear like, like, um, like VVos or Vbrums, like the kind of super minimal shoes. And you run in those. You're just like on the freaking, I can feel every pebble on the ground. And all my pain went away. You should check out our friend Mark Sisson's friend, Paloova. Yeah, Mark's homing in. That's a TikTok clip. People are

going to want to know about what you just said. And you know, my husband, I would really love for him to not be muted in his shoes in my house. Maybe you can start walking barefoot before you get in the house instead of walking half in and dragging all the drugs. I got the fucking Texas shit kickers on right now. It's probably not the best. Yeah. He walks in when his like, heavy boots. I'm like, out. What else do you do? What else are other biohacky Michael things? Magnesium for sleep is just fantastic, especially if you exercise a lot. You're pretty depleted on electrolytes in general and magnesium in particular. I just think like night and day for sleep school. I don't sell any magnesium or anything. What are your brands that you go to?

There's one called like triple magnesium that I like a lot. Yeah, it's like, is it's a powder or a pill. It's a powder. I've been looking for a good pill because like the powder's kind of like like flu here. Momentus has a good magnesium three and eight. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Cool. Check that out. Like moment. I have some other momentous. They have a good sleep hack too that has the magnesium in it. I'm big into mouth date like you know, prior to this. Wait, you mouth tape. Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. I got to give you some skin. I would love to try it. Yeah, yeah. I love it. It's huge. I got my wife into it. We just, we're big, we're just nose breathers feel really, really good. Good sleep. Good sleep. You know the wild thing is like... I take it on runs sometimes too. Yeah. I see a lot of runners now working to do more nose breathing.

And I imagine because that is probably like the more efficient way to breathe. Why do you like nose breathing? Let's hear it from you. Okay. So, well, this also ties into one of my other hacks. It's just like sometimes I exercise where I try to exercise. I'll try to run as fast as possible while keeping my heart rate low. I'll try to see how fast I can go while keeping my heart rate up under 140.

And so I'll wear a heart rate monitor. And I'm a big marathon runner. So that for me is like part of my training. It just makes you more efficient. Like if I can run a seven minute mile while keeping my heart rate low, that means that when I really, really try, I can go really fast. What's the fastest you've ever done a marathon? Two hours, 40 minutes.

Holy shit. What is that a six, like averaging a little bit more than six? Yeah, it's like six or something. Trying to get under six. Like that's, I'm cracking. I don't think people understand how hard that is. Go on the treadmill, put it at 10. And do that for 26 miles. That's what I do for fun. That is gnarly. I mean, that is an accomplishment in itself. You follow Casey Nyset at all? Yeah. Yeah. Did you see that video he just came out with? Yeah. He just broke three hours. Yeah. But I mean, just like, I mean, it took him. I mean, what he did is an accomplishment in itself. I mean, you are on the, I didn't realize. That is intense. It's my happy place. I really like running. That's basically like going outside right now. Try running first a six minute mile. Now try doing it 26 times in a row.

So why do you like nose breathing? It forces you to breathe more from your diaphragm. You have to take these deeper belly breaths. It forces you to breathe more slowly. You can feel yourself more relaxed. More parasympathetic activation as a result. So you're just more like you're, when you're breathing like mouth open, you're almost hyperventilating. You're in this like sympathetic fight or flight mode.

When you're nose breathing, you're in this parasympathetic rest and recover mode. So you just way more chilled out, like vibrating at a better. frequency. There's some chemicals too. Like you get more, I forget what it is. Body makes more, I want to say nitrous oxide when you're breathing through your nose. Generally, you just feel more more calm and better in control. I am going to give you some pink lip mouth tape and I want to see you in your one minute marathon that you run the fastest marathon ever wearing your mouth tape. I would love to. The one I have is like, it's like black. I don't know. It's not pink. It's not interesting. You and your wife need to be wearing pink. Yeah, yeah. If you were going to start with

this, if people are going to start with ketone IQ, HVMN, if they're going to start using it, maybe give me three buckets of like the, of a profile. So for me, I mostly am interested because I'm really trying to like up my, my workout game right now. And so I'm taking it prior to my workouts and going and training in a more focused harder way. But if you were going to say, okay, there's three kind of ideal profiles to start using this. Yeah. How would you tell people to start? Yeah, I'm giving you right now. So the one, okay, I wanted to work out harder. I want to be more focused, more dialed in in the gym. That's bull's eye for sure.

Next is I want to be, I want to have less cravings, more appetite control. I want to be able to just like work and do stuff and not be hungry all the time. Really solid there. I want to be doing intermittent fasting. I want to be able to keep a longer intermittent fasting window, all that like some kind of appetite control. And then the third one is just getting in the zone at work. Like mentally I want to be able to just sit and focus and think and like have my, I don't want to be tired.

If it's two, three in the afternoon, I don't want coffee. I want to just have something that's going to get me in the zone into flow state. That's why I say this is great for podcasting too. I'm going to start doing these more in podcasts. We have a bunch of podcasts coming up. These are solid to take. Yeah. Someone told me it's like low-dose Adderall the way they make it feel.

I always talk about it is like it kind of feels like runners high in a bottle. So yeah, people like it. Yeah, it does feel great. I like it. I'm going to definitely take one every single day. I personally am going to do it before I waitlift. Cool. We have a discount for 30% off your first subscription order of

ketone IQ. Go to HVMN.com slash skinny and you will save 30% buy some for your significant other or your friends too because they're going to try to steal them. Michael has so generously said that he is going to give away a month supply to five winners. All you have to do is follow on Instagram at HVMN and tell us your favorite takeaway of this podcast on my latest post at Lauren Bostic. Michael, thank you for coming on. Thanks for the shot of energy and the appetite control. I actually don't feel hungry. No, feel great.

I'm in ketosis right now. Yeah, I'm in ketosis. Thank you, Michael. This is a lot of fun. Thanks so much.