The Bossticks - How To Manage Your Health & Use Holistic Health Practices Ft. Veronica Max

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

#724: Today we're sitting down with Veronica Max. Veronica is a holistic nurse practitioner and the founder of UltraPersonal Healthcare, a concierge healthcare practice that prioritizes the sovereignty of the individual. Today, we talk about holistic health and what it means, where traditional medicine has gone wrong, and how to start working towards complete health.   To connect with Veronica Max click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn's favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase.     This episode is brought to you by Branch Basics The Branch Basics Premium Starter Kit will provide you with everything you need to replace all of your toxic cleaning products in your home. It's really a no-brainer. Go to branchbasics.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off their starter kit and free shipping.   This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby Use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off sitewide & free shipping at dreamlandbabyco.com   This episode is brought to you by ServPro SERVPRO is the #1 choice in cleanup and restoration. Visit SERVPRO.com or call 1-800-SERVPRO today.   This episode is brought to you by Amazon.    Everyone knows that Amazon Prime Day is July 16 and 17. There's no better time than Prime Day to support your favorite small businesses selling on Amazon.   This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with fresh food. Get 50% off your first box & free shipping by going to thefarmersdog.com/skinny

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

The growth in my life and my journey has been working through my trauma and social programming to come home to myself and to know myself. And I hope that my children are going to have their work to do, right? We each have a journey that we're on. But at least I'm not going to be dumping the same things onto them. And I've learned a few things to where I'm not going to expose them to that system. I invited our family practitioner onto the podcast today. This episode is fun because Veronica Max knows us from a deep level.

She is the person that I go to for my entire family. family here in Austin, Texas. She's a holistic nurse practitioner. And what I like about her is she works with the family to figure out what's best for them. She does not have a one size fits all approach to the medical world. And I appreciate that. Veronica Max is the founder of ultra personal health care. It's a concierge's health care practice. So whenever I meet with her or I text her or I call her, I just feel like I have an opinion and a say, and she also helps to guide me without telling me what to do when it comes to my health and my kids' health and Michael's health. This was really important to us. I don't want to just make decisions for my family when it comes to medicine because someone tells me I have to do something. I want to know all the options. And she's been an incredible mentor for me when it comes to health.

In this episode, we talk about her health issues growing up, how she discovered that traditional medicine wasn't the right road for her, the holistic healthcare industry and what it really is, all different kinds of aspects of health, being open to different ideals of health. And we talk about how you can't separate your emotional, spiritual, mental, and holistic health from your overall health. I love this episode. I think it's really beneficial to anyone, especially if you have a family, give it a listen. On that note, Veronica Max, holistic nurse practitioner and founder of ultra personal health care.

Welcome to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. If you would have told me that Michael would be on a podcast passionate about grounding, non-toxic deodorant, tallow on his face, non-toxic cleaning supplies, and he would be excited to talk to a guest about it, I would have said you're crazy four years ago. So this is a big deal. No, you're right. He's evolved.

I'm an evolved man. I can see that. I want to get a little bit of context on your story, Veronica. Tell us your background and how you even wanted to go into this profession. Like, give us the childhood spiel. You know, I grew up suburban, middle class, nothing super interesting. My dad, I feel like, was very open-minded, though, and an out-of-the-box thinker. He was an entrepreneur.

I was just always, I was an athlete growing up from a very early age. and, you know, I had some health issues, first acne, which I went to a dermatologist, and, you know, I don't know why, but I asked about food. I just suspected that that must be involved. I also had geographic tongue from a very early age, which is where, like, taste buds fall off of your tongue. And so I was just wondering if these things were connected. And I asked, you know, the dermatologist about, you know, should I not eat chocolate? I think I'd pick that up somewhere or dairy. Like, oh, no, no, no, you know, diet, food doesn't have anything to do with your skin. Here's some birth control. You know, it just didn't make sense to me, right? And then prescribing different medications that made, created other symptoms and didn't really solve the issue. And so eventually I addressed that through. I continue to do research and eliminated things for my diet. And, you know, my acne improved significantly. And then just other things that came up in my life from, you know, playing sports and wanting to optimize my health and wellness and my performance. I played college basketball. Had ankle sprains, found proletherapy. That was before. PRP existed. And so rather than have surgery, I ended up doing prolotherapy and that, you know, cured my, you know, chronic ankle sprains and ankle issues. You know, from there, it's just been kind of an evolution of my journey and finding not just how to be physically healthy, but really understanding that emotional health is a part of that. Before we started the show, and, you know, and I should mention that we work with you for our family's health and our health, why do you

think in the healthcare space, which you're obviously in, people go to the nuclear option first. And what I mean by that is, you know, you have an illness and it's, it's, you know, this prescription or this surgery or like before, you know, I told you, I had a friend came to me and who was talking about hormones. And the first thing was like hormone replacement therapy. And I was like, well, there's maybe he's young guy. And I was like, there's maybe 18 other things to try before that. Like, it's not like it's critical that you do the other, If all those options exhaust, maybe, but it wasn't even presented to him that there's maybe a bunch of other things you could do first. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

I mean, I think it starts with, you know, most health care providers aren't aware that there are other options. They're only educated on the pharmaceutical options. And, you know, there's a lot of opinions on why that is. I mean, we can be very direct. And, you know, I think it's well known that a big pharma, right, funds a lot of medical education. So I think that's part of it. And then also it's, you know, there is responsibility on the consumer too, right? I think a lot of people want a quick fix.

They want to, here's some testosterone, you know, and that's going to, now you're going to have more energy and recover faster, etc. When you went into your practice, it seems to me, and you can speak to this, that you were sort of doing what you were supposed to be doing in the medical field. And then you saw that there was something missing and you made a pivot. Is that what happened? Yeah. I mean, I entered the medical field. So I had my first degree was in biochemistry. And I thought I wanted to be a doctor.

And then I realized, wait a second, I've always wanted lots of kids. I knew I wanted like four kids. And my dad was an entrepreneur. I thought maybe I wanted to own my own business someday. And it just didn't make sense to me as a woman and, you know, someone who wanted to be a mother to invest that much time, you know, an investment in my schooling. And so then I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. and I came back around to, okay, I do, I'd move to Austin at that point. I do want to be in the health industry.

You know, what's the fastest way for me to do that and stay in Austin? And so, and then also what's a little bit more holistic route? So I found, you know, the nurse practitioner role. Yeah, so I worked in, I think I always just, you know, talking about my story, I just had a more open-minded kind of view of things and knew that, you know, even when the doctor tells you, oh, well, you know, food doesn't matter. here's a prescription, that just never made sense to me. So I came at it from an open mind. But I definitely saw having worked in, you know, hospitals here that just the way that the

insurance, just the way the whole model works, it does not foster health. Whenever we do these episodes, there's, I want to always say like there's a lot of great doctors out there. And I don't want to like blanketly say that like don't trust doctors. There's definitely amazing doctors out there. But I think some of the frustration, with us, and I'm sure some of our listeners and just the world in general, is that, it's what I was talking about earlier. It's like there's, it's, it's the nuclear option first before talking about some of the stuff that we discuss on this show. And I think that has put the world in a, in a dangerous space because we, we've kind of gotten away from some of the

more natural, maybe Eastern approaches that, that are, that are also options. When you said earlier, like, they're just not taught. I wonder, I just wonder why they're not many taught about some of these things. You know, that's an interesting and also a difficult question. I think that the, first off, when, so I believe, and I've come to this through my own healing journey and a lot of emotional work and trauma work, but I believe that each of us has an innate healing capacity. The system, like, you know, when you opt into the medical system, when you decide to engage

with a medical system, at that moment, you are giving us. up your power and you are you're saying that okay you the expert whoever the doctor whoever you're engaging with in the medical system please save me from you know whatever my issue is and you know you're the expert you know more about it than me so can you please save me so you're not taking the power into your own hands and becoming your own your own advocate and your own guru you're you're giving the ball to someone else correct and most people don't even know that they have that power Right. Well, because they've been brainwashed from birth, and I think that's where it starts. That's one reason why I'm so passionate about home birth and, you know, all of the other options. I mean, I don't care what you do as long as, you know, because I don't think there's the right choice for everyone, but there's what, you know, there's what's right for you. I think women need to know about all of their options, but that's one reason why I'm so a big supporter of home birth is because I think that birth is the moment that so many people opt into the medical system and the brainwashing that I need to. somebody else to save me from my health issues. It makes sense. I mean, and the way that sometimes

you're given a diagnosis is so matter of fact that it's intimidating. Like to say there's nothing else you can do about this except this is, I mean, it's a little bit problematic. It's like you don't have any options. A diagnosis in and of itself is super problematic because I mean, you guys know you're successful entrepreneurs. Your thoughts create your reality. So when someone tells you then that, hey, you have bipolar disorder, right? You've got a mental illness and you need this medication to fix you. And then you fixate on the fact, well, oh, I've got a mental illness. I'm ill.

And you're going to create that. Michael, do you want to speak about what you're reading right now? Because this is so... No, I will understand it. But our friend, Dr. Conover, basically has a saying this is like the diagnosis becomes the disease in many cases. I'm reading Louise Hay, how to heal your life. Yeah. Lauren wanted me to read.

She's super passionate about me reading. I'm really passionate about I'm reading it because it's exactly what you just said. In our marriage, Lauren gives me book recommendations and I read them. And then I give her book recommendations and she doesn't read them. I peruse the recommendations. We had another doctor come on the podcast and he said that there was a woman that wanted to get a brain scan. And he was like, why do you want this brain scan? And she's like, I just want this brain scan for peace of mind.

So she gets the brain scam and there's like a little something in the brain. Little calcium. but little calcium deposit. And then she has such bad anxiety that she has the calcium deposit in her brain that she goes and she wants to get it removed. So she gets it removed out of her brain and that caused a huge host of issues. Had she just had not even gone there to begin with, it's just like it's kind of like a momentous spiral. Well, again, it's about opting into a system and it's just like birth when you opt into a hospital birth and there's all kinds of intervention. that come with that. And then there are consequences to those interventions that often aren't talked about.

So, you know, you bring up preventative screening. A lot of my patients, you know, have means and they're interested in these pernuvos scans and these preventative scans. You know, and I'm all about having the power to do what you want with your health, right, and having that be an option to you. But I'm conflicted about that. And this is exactly why, because I see a lot of, you know, anytime we scan something, there's a lot of, you know, incidental findings. And then, but the problem with that is, well, that creates more medical intervention. So what do you do? I mean, it's a good question for me.

I think that's a question for each individual. For me, that means I don't, I don't think I'm interested in ever doing a full body preventative screening. You know what? I'm not either. I'm not interested in that. I completely agree with you. And I've thought about this a lot. I think that it's just looking for something.

And I also think you have to be careful with those scans that what you feel. find doesn't become your identity. There you go. Like if it starts, it's almost like some people are searching for like a layer of identity with it. Have you found that? Or it's a, that they have this belief inside of them that something is wrong with them and they're going to find that.

Right. They almost like if they identify it, then they can fix the thing. Right. So, and this gets into, it's just like so many layers of this and it gets so complex. And that's where, like I said, you can't separate the physical from the spiritual and the emotional, like people just feeling unsafe in their bodies. I mean, I see it's like a, I mean, so many people are so anxious and are, feels so unsafe because they have, I mean, we all have trauma, right? And it hasn't been, it's living in their subconscious and it hasn't been addressed.

And so they go, if they have this idea, well, I feel unsafe. I am, I'm safe. Something's wrong with there, there is something wrong, right? And maybe it's just the, the trauma that they haven't processed, but they go look for it in ways that, you know, they go searching for control. Okay, let me do this scan. I can find, you know, prevent, you know, this bad outcome with cancer. And there are incidents, right, of finding brain cancer, for instance, in a 30-something-year-old woman, right, that they wouldn't have found had they not done the preventative screening. But I think those incidences are a lot more rare than the harm that actually comes from all of these things.

I'm going to say something controversial. Okay, you do it. I have talked to a lot of doctors off air. that will not say this on air and you don't have to agree or whatever. But I have heard that some of these scans actually cause things, specifically the mammogram. Yeah. I've heard a lot of fucked up shit off air about how the mammogram squishing and squeezing and manipulating your breast isn't great. Is there radiation in a mammogram?

There is radiation involved there. I mean, there are studies. And I think what's the, is it Dr. Connolly? Do you all are all familiar with her? She's a cancer expert, more holistic cancer expert. but I think she posted something about this recently. You know, there are studies that it actually increases your, want to be careful about saying this,

but increases your risk of breast cancer, these preventative screenings. I feel like it was Switzerland or there's some European country that actually doesn't recommend them because it, you know, if anything, it didn't decrease outcomes, mortality from breast cancer. So what, if you don't mind me asking, what do you do when it comes to that? You're a woman.

So I'm not, yeah, I'm just, I'm turning 30, I'm turning 40 this year. I'm how old I am, but I'm not interested in a mammogram. I don't play you to do that. Now, some of my patients do ultrasounds, you know, some of my patients opt to do thermography. I don't know that I'm really interested in any of it. I don't know that I'm interested in getting a colonoscopy. Actually, I'll just go ahead and say I'm not. That doesn't mean that's the right decision for everyone, but for me and my risk factors in how I live, I'm, you've got to be so careful about opting into the system. I want to talk about how you live in a minute, but I think, like, the core of this and where my perspective has definitely changed over the last four,

definitely the last four years is instead of going to all of these solutions once there's a problem or, you know, having to colonoscopy, whatever it is, it's like going back to the root about what, and understanding like why these things can start to happen in the first place. Like one of the things I was telling my buddy, I was like, okay, well, you're drinking municipal tap water and you have all of these fallates in the house and all these bad cleaning supplies. Like maybe get rid of all that before. I think what the problem is is we have these things that we're doing that we don't realize are so unhealthy. We talk about a lot of these things on the podcast.

And if you can kind of eradicate some of those things, maybe some of these other things don't become as necessary. And what he said to me is like, oh, that's not sustainable, like to not drink that water or to not use those clean. And I go, what do you, like, of course, it is sustainable. We just have to make some systematic changes. It is. And honestly, it really doesn't have to.

And I think it goes even so much deeper than that. But you're clearly on to something, right? It's not that there's something wrong with our body. our body isn't malfunctioning and breaking down. We live in a very toxic modern environment. And that's the chemicals, you know, that's in our water and in plastics that's, you know, surrounds our food. But it's also, you know, the fact that most people are indoors 90% of the time.

You know, they're on screens and under these artificial lights after dark. Like, that's not how humans lived for millions of years. And to think that that's, that we're going to be healthy in those situations is just, Not in my house. Naive. Because you know what? This motherfucker tries to turn on a light in my house at night after seven. And I don't do it anymore.

My daughter now says to him, she goes, ew, dad, that hurts my eyes. She's like, we have blue eyes. No, but it's funny because you guys maybe aren't as into maybe the measurement. And I kind of go back forward to this. But we did live in L.A. And I would say our environment was like all the bad stuff. All the stuff that we were doing. Not just the city, just the way we were living.

You can live well in that city, but we were just not. And I've since... I'd argue that you can't even live well in the city. In a city, I would argue maybe the same thing. I just don't want to shit on L.A. so much. But I had blood work and physicals done there. And I've had, since I've been here, the same thing. And my markers have gotten better and better and better as we've made these changes

and changed our environment. And I've gotten older and older, right? And so to me, it's like, okay, the reason I'm so on board of this stuff now is like I'm a data-driven person and I see the data and my own blood work over the years after making these changes and like hormones are better blood works, better health, better, more energy, better sleep, all these things. And it's not just because, you know, we're working out a little it's like it's the whole environment shifted and changed. Yeah. That makes sense. Absolutely. I wanted, I was attracted to as, as a doctor for our family because I feel like you are neutral in all

different kinds of areas. Like you're open to different ideas and you don't close it off. Do you actively work at that? Is that something that you thought about? Like how did that come to fruition? Yeah, like I said, it really started with my dad. You know, my dad had plenty of flaws, but I loved my dad and he was an extremely open-minded person. And he did not trust authority at all. And so I think that's where where it really comes from is a distrust of authority and a willingness to take responsibility for my health and, you know, when it comes to my patients, you know, providing them with all of the options that are, because really, when I, you know, I talk a lot about sovereignty and health care. And what I mean by that is that sovereignty is having the power to make just all the power,

that someone else doesn't have the power over me. I have the power and the response, and 100% of the responsibility over me in my domain, right? And so I believe that everyone else should have that too, or at least that option to choose that. And in healthcare, that means that I view it as my job to provide you with all of the available treatment options for anything that you're dealing, any symptom that you're dealing with, and the risk and benefits of those treatment options

so that you can make the best decision for you or your family member. I would love for you to talk about toxins in the house and what your opinion is on each thing and what your swaps are in your own home. I know you're very into grounding and earthing. Just talk about how you run your own house. I mean, first I try to be outside as much as possible. I'd love to have the windows open, et cetera. But in Texas, you know, that's a little between the heat and the bugs. That's difficult. So, you know, like for instance, laundry detergent, I use branch basics. You know, I'm not perfect with this. I use castile soap. We were talking about face stuff. I use tallow. You know, my friends make a biodynamic face serum. It's primally pure. This show is filled with morning routines. And one of the things that's in my morning routine that I have not been able to live without for the last eight years in running is me drinking my AG1. I drink it every single morning when I wake up with a heaping glass of water. This makes me feel hydrated, energized. I get my daily vitamins and nutrition, my prebiotic, my probiotic, all in one place.

First thing in the morning, and I've done this for eight years. I've trusted AG1 for years because unlike so many products, their entire formula is backed by research studies, not just the ingredients. For over 14 years, AG1 has been focused on innovation with a trusted nutrient-dense blend. That's the perfect complement to my healthy diet. AG1 has been third-party tested for safety for years and is trusted by the experts and medical professionals. If there was only one supplement that I could take that would give me the most bang for my buck, it would definitely be AG1. They've recently been posting results online from

their studies, and it was really interesting to see how many of the studied participants had the same feelings of energy, focus, and supported digestion that I've had using AG1 myself. I've also noticed that the under-eye circles that I used to have under my eyes are completely gone. It took me years to figure out how to get those resolved, and AG1 definitely contributed to getting those taken care of. So like I said, if there's one product I trust to support my whole body health, it's AG1, and that's why I've partnered with them for so long. It's easy and satisfying to start your journey with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first purchase at drinkag1.com slash skinny. That's drinkag1.com

slash skinny. Check it out. If you would have told me a few years ago that I would be screaming about household cleaning supplies, talking about hormone regulation and better living and better health, I would have looked at you like you were crazy. That was until we had the founder, Allison, of Branch Basics on this podcast talking all about the benefits of using cleaner, better for you ingredients when it comes to household cleaning supplies. This is why we love talking about Branch Basics so much. We have done two episodes now with the Branch Basics founders talking all about the benefits of using better for you

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starter kit replaces all of your harmful cleaning products in the home and Branch Basics now has a new luxurious gel hand soap made with only the safest ingredients to nourish your skin. Of course, we have a special offer, say 15% on your starter kit or their new hand soap when you use code skinny at www. branch basics.com. Again, that is code skinny for 15% off when you purchase a starter kit or their new gel hand soap at branch basics.com. Every single new mom on the planet needs this.

I gift this to every new mom. I harass my friends about it. And that is a gently weighted sleep sack. I don't mean to brag, but my son sleeps 7.30 to 7.30. And I attribute a huge part of that to his gently weight. sleep sack. First of all, when I pull that thing out, he knows it's time to wind down and he immediately like his eyes start closing. I put it on him and it just is like this association with this sleep sack makes him tired, which is amazing. And it keeps him sleeping through the night. The one that I

use is by this company, Dreamland baby. She invented this gently weighted sleep sack when she had her son in 2018 and he was waking up every hour and a half, which is so exhausting. And actually, I can't imagine it because that hasn't happened to me because I've had this sleep sack. I really think it's such a great way for you to get more sleep and your baby to get more sleep. I also will do an all-dark room and I keep it cool and I have his air filter going. I don't have any light in the room or any music besides 5 to 8 hertz. And these tips mixed with the gently weighted sleep sack have changed our lives. True. like Michael's in such a better mood that he actually gets to sleep and so am I.

Go to Dreamlandbabyco.com and enter our Code Skinny at checkout. You receive 20% offsitewide plus free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers. Go to Dreamlandbabyco.com and enter Code skinny. Anything for the kids that you do that you just think is really great for toxins? Honestly, I just leave them alone. Yeah. I don't, they, my children probably bathe maybe once a week.

Can you talk to him about this? And when they don't use, I mean, you know, Michael's a fourth Japanese. He thinks they have to bathe every day. Can you? One time we had somebody on and they were talking about this. And when the clip went viral and they said we were abusing people, like. Oh, Lord. They said something about privilege too.

I was like, what? I didn't know how that works. What were they doing? I did delayed bathing with both, bathing with both my kids. After they were born. Yes, that's because why would you need to, why are they dirty? They're not dirty. I want them to sit in my vagina juice.

Yes. Just just even think of, sorry. There is a thing, you know, where they seed, like, if a C-section birth, like, uh, anyways. They put the vagina juice on. Anyways, the thing went by. Somehow, I never really understood why. People were very angry about it. Talk to us about how you only bathe your kids once a week. I want to know more about that. Well, first off, I just let my kids do what they want to do and they don't, like, why?

I have four children. I'm not going to fight with my kids over little stupid things like bathing. Agreed. What's the age gap again? almost 10, 7, 5, and 2. You're in it. So you don't make them bathe every day. You'll just do when they want to once a week. If it's once a week.

So they swim. We have a pool and they swim in the summer. So I guess we call that bathing. So it's probably even less than that, you know. But no, we tell it like our kids have autonomy over their bodies and their rooms assuming, you know, and they can make all the choices around. that, assuming they're safe. I think that's cool. Zaza, we just read this book that my friend sent me about being the boss of her body. Yes. And yesterday, she was like acting up and I said,

who's the boss? And she said, well, you are, mom, but I am the boss of my body. So you get, yeah, I love it. So this is great. And that gets difficult. But like, I'll tell you this, my daughter this year, when she started school, she actually, it was like the second week of school. And I picked her up and, you know, she had been to the office like twice that day. And I'm like, what is going on? Because here I am. I was like a goody two shoes in school. Like straight A's, you know, star athlete. Like let me just make everybody happy. Right. And that came from a kind of a traumatized place. But so I picked my daughter up and I'm like, what like, I've never been to the office sent to the office or been, you know, discipline like that. I'm like, what did she do? And it's like, well, she didn't want to come in from the playground is when

it started. And then, you know, I tried to tell her to come in. And she was saying, know my body, my rules, I can do whatever I want. You know, and she just, like, she was leaving the classroom because she wanted to go out to play. And so it gets into this, you know, because I want my kids to have. Be a free thinker. Yes. And to have, you know, autonomy and to make decisions and deal with those consequences. And that's when we, you know, we've been trying to guide her. And, you know, well, you can certainly make that decision. But they're, you know, if you want to be around your friends in class, there are consequences to that. And that might be.

that you're at, you know, homeschooling next year or, you know, next week with mom and dad, you know, and you don't get to be around your friends. Talk to us about homeschooling. I know that you have talked a little bit to me off air about it. What are the pros? What are the cons? What have you seen about it? So I never thought we'd be homeschooling our kids at all.

We have several. We started a school out in dripping shortly after 2020 when everything, you know, happened. And they were masking kids at school and all of that jazz. So a couple of my kids, two of my kids are at that school. It's a Waldorf style school. And then my oldest is at home. And my husband this year has primarily been running that. But like, you know, and we started with like a Waldorf curriculum, but that doesn't, my, that's, Waldorf, I don't know if you're familiar with Waldorf teachers, but they're very kind of more hippie-ish, I guess, if you're going to describe them in some way and that is not my husband at all. And he just has

a different way of teaching. So he's kind of just abandoned that and is doing his, own thing. But, you know, that looks like he's working around, you know, the ranch with my husband. Like, he was digging holes, like operating the tractor and digging holes to plant trees for the orchard the other week. You know, he's welded, was learning to weld. Like, my husband had someone come over to do that. You know, I've got him in a crossfit class with some of his other friends. He does jujitsu now. He just recently got into that. And it's competing. Oh, he loves it. And it's been great. to your dad board? Because I'm going to need you to teach

towns how to use a tractor. I want you to keep going. But then, yeah, I have a couple of thousands, but I want you to keep going. Yeah. So it's just, what else?

You know, we have them in. He does handwork. So that's a very Waldorf thing. Like, you know, once a week he goes to, one of his teachers has a class out of her home

where they learn to, you know, crochet and knit. And he makes like, you know, felting stuff. And he just learned to read, by the way.

And the reason he learned to read is because he wanted to be able to, you know, read Harry Potter to himself. And how old is he? He's nine. He's about to be 10. Like, we're not in a rush. We know our kids.

I'm an intelligent person. My husband's an intelligent person. What's the rush to get there? Your husband has a book publishing company, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's fine. My husband's a published author.

Like, it's going to be okay. Why are we rushing to have children read in kindergarten when they need to be playing? I feel like that with all the milestones, though. Like, I literally have no idea when my kids first started walking. If you asked me and pay me a zillion. a zillion dollars. I have no idea. I feel like they'll all, that's healthy. They'll get there when they get there. I can't sit there and fixate on this fake milestone that someone put on the internet. And if you're anxious about that, your kid's going to feel it, feel it. And that's going to create

issues for them. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I go back and forth with this because I was terrible in school. And I was in the office every day. I had so many detentions that they had to convert the time to then lunch detentions. Oh, wow. Clicked them off. Then they had to convert it to Saturday schools for four hour blocks.

And then, anyways, not because I was so bad, but I just wanted to do my own thing. And anyways, the reason I go back and forth, and it's not my parents' fault. They just,

this is the modern school system. It's like that environment, looking back, was probably not right for someone like me. No. And you should have been welding and doing jujitsu. And I even look back on college.

And I, this is going to sound really dumb. I'm going to sound like an idiot, but hopefully my accomplishments now speak for themselves a bit. It ought to be arrogant. But I don't remember one thing really that I learned in college. Meaningly, I don't remember what I took away from it. I just remember being there. I learned angles. I hope my children don't go to college. I remember partying a lot. I remember

being there. I remember sitting in classes. I remember thinking the whole time I'm never going to use any of this and don't care. I remember being in high school thinking to myself, the only class I cared about was English and history. Like math, you know, I'm like, okay. I need to know math. But to a point, I'm like, I don't know what I'd all the, I just knew I wasn't going to use it. And I just was getting in trouble all the time. So I think this approach where it's like one size fits all for every kid is, it's not healthy. It's not healthy. No. And I mean, y'all know the origins of the school system. I mean, it's just to create obedient worker bees. Which then is not necessarily. Do you want an obedient worker bee for your child? No. And also,

I don't even want an obedient worker bee for any of the companies that I run. I want people that are thinking and bringing, you know, ideas to the table and looking at what's wrong in the organization to improve it, not just to like, be like, hey, I'm going to do exactly what I'm told all the time. That's a great point. You know what I mean? Like, I think like in any endeavor too, I mean, maybe in some, but I don't want to cog in the wheel. I want someone like, I don't, I want Carson over there to be like, hey, I have a better idea or I want to do something differently or like, hey, we've been doing it this way, but let's try it differently. I never want someone to just follow the rules. Right. Well, that's, you know, a lot of people want to have power over others.

And the whole system really is designed to traumatize children and to keep them from themselves, really. And, you know, because I believe so much of the growth in my life and my journey has been working through my trauma and social programming to come home to myself and to know myself. And I hope that my children are going to have their work to do, right? We each have a journey that we're on, but at least I'm not going to be dumping the same things onto them. And I've learned a few things to where I'm not going to expose them to that system. Yeah. I mean, if I see one of my children going through school the same way that I did, I'll probably look to do something. Because looking back, and again, I don't pass any blame on it.

I take accountability for everything that's happened to my life. But sitting as a child for hours and hours quietly in a room with your head on a desk. As a little boy? And having someone lecture to you, that's not. interesting. I'm in a, like, he was, like, banned from the Disneyland trip. I remember all this being, I remember, I was his girlfriend. Every year. He's banned from the Disneyland trip. He would have to sit in, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, come on. I love some color. Anyone that's colorful, I'm like, come to me. He, he would have to literally sit there for eight hours. I don't even think they gave you a book.

But what did that do to your, what you, how you felt about yourself? So as I've gotten older, I've thought about this a lot because I kind of just, I kind of just like ignored it for a long time. And then I was like, wait, if every day you don't go to lunch with the kids. Okay, so they say you go to school to be social. But if every day, instead of being social, you sit at a desk with your head quietly in a room. And then every day after school, everybody goes home and you sit an hour after. It was horrible. And then on Saturdays you come and sit for four hours.

And then everybody goes on the school trips and you don't get a go. And your parents allowed this? They didn't say anything. I don't think I don't blame them because. I think they just did. They were so like academic that they just didn't know. My mom is-you-safe, you said, you said, okay. Yeah, she's half Japanese straight-A student, straight-day college, all that.

My dad never went to college, military. But I don't think. But still military is very authority. Yeah, I think they just told them like, yo, your son is like. It's bad. And this is like the consequences. And they accepted that? I mean, my, I'm sorry, Mom, I'm going to part.

At the end of the- I'm not bashing your mom or your parents. I'm just curious about. I think it was a time when like they, imagine, like, I don't know what you're, like, I just don't think parents that they just trusted the school, right? I also think that. as social media has given us more information, we've been more open-minded and been able to grow as people. At the end of all of it, they handed, like, I got out of all the school and there was a binder.

I'm not kidding. It was like this thick full of just all my detentions. She was so she was so I wish she would have kept him. So I could like go back. Yeah, I wish I could go back and like read what the hell they were for. I'll tell you, I'll give you like, I mean, thank God my dad did this. Like in kindergarten, like I was getting in trouble every day. And so my dad, my parents eventually like, she's not a bad kid. like what's going on here?

And so they went and had a conversation with a teacher. And they had her write notes like a report every day as to what, you know, what'd been going on. And when she had to do that, I no longer was getting in trouble because I was getting, she did not, she was projecting some things on me, like some unresolved. And that's what happens, like some of her own unresolved issues on me. And when she was held accountable to detail exactly what was going on, it became very apparent that the problem was not me. So, like, give us an example. I think, generally speaking, what she was, I was very much, I mean, my daughter Vaughn is who I was, a very free kind of wild child.

I wasn't wild, but just a free child that wanted, you know, very independent. And that had been squashed out of her. And she didn't like seeing that in me. Oh, there it is. And because I've seen that mirror for me, like, and I've had to reflect on that being a mother, seeing how, like, because my daughter Vaughn, this is the one. one that got, you know, sent to the office twice in the second week of school. And I just could, you know, immediately when I was, well, she was bad, like, oh gosh, I don't want a bad child. You know, and I had to really evaluate that thought that immediately came. Wait a second. She's

not a bad child. She's expressing. She wants autonomy and freedom and, you know, and I get, and that's healthy. I want that in my children. And so having to look at me in the ways in which, oh, actually, that was suppressed in me. Yeah. Because I was given the signal that if I acted in that way and was a leader and free and allowed to be like wild, you know, and just fully expressive, that I wouldn't be loved. Yeah, I can relate to that, especially as a woman. It's very challenging when a woman is really confident and independent and confident within her independence. And it also is challenging. I've noticed when I was younger too for male.

Yeah. Like it's, they don't, they want the woman to go back in the perfect box with the bow. And if you challenge that, it, it, it makes them insecure. No, I think what, I think it challenges anyone when people fall outside of like the pretty box, right? Where it's like, this is the orderly way to do things. No, we'll listen to our podcast. And the way that as, you know, the reason I'm not angry at all about what happened with me, it's like it's not like some crazy trauma. People have it way worse. But my, the way I handled that. was like, I'm, I think they were like, we're going to break this guy down so that he, and I was like, I'm going to go the opposite way and see how far I can take it. Is that, and so. Yeah, no, you handle, and not that you should like, like, you're handling it in a very healthy way because it's like you can't, you have no control over these things that happened to you, but it's how you react to it, right?

And it's now your responsibility to heal and, you know, whatever it was that happened to you. Yeah. And I, but I guess the long point is that as I've gotten older, I don't pass blame on my parents, but if that was going on with my child, I would say, okay, this is probably not the right environment. And, you know, I think whenever you talk about homeschooling or alternative schooling or not going to college, people get so up in arms because the norm is like, you go through the school system, you go to college, you graduate, you get a job. But that may not work for everybody.

Well, it's the norm. It's how, because most people are concerned with their status in the community, right? And getting a college degree, even if it's, you know, some nonsense, you know, I'm not going to, you know, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, right? But, um, Like, it doesn't, status, like, what does that mean? Status from your college that you went to college? No, like, I would prefer that my kid learns how to do something that enriches his life, you know, their lives and other people's lives, like having a trade or creating a business or, you know, whatever.

My godfather's a guy. He graduated eighth grade and that's it. And he's done really well. I won't say him by name, but he was in an argument one day with a bunch of, like, Ivy League lawyers and they were going back and forth about something. And the guy was throwing all his degrees and whatever in his face. He goes, yeah, yeah, I got a bunch of you pencil pushers working somewhere in my legal department. And I thought about, and I just think about that because to your point, like some of those people are great and wonderful. And then there's people like him that

don't have any kind of like real education, but go and make it. And to each his own, right? I don't think, I think it, there's no, there's no like one size fits all and there's no like this is best for everybody. It's different. College may be the right choice for some people, you know, but a lot of people mindlessly choose these things because it's what's expected of them or it's what brings them status or, you know, like, you know, and growing up, right, vocational degrees and, you know, these kind of like blue-collar jobs were not considered high status. And I think those times are changing. Yeah. Because we couldn't reach the world. Like, yeah.

And do you want a man who's able to fix shit? or, you know, is helpless when, you know, they hit a pipe and, you know, now your water shut off. Like, because, and my husband's had to look like, he's made this shit. Like, he has a JD from Duke Law School that he has never used. And now he knows how he's taught himself, right, how to fix a pipe. Is that your puppeteering? Oh, no, no, not at all. So he just has naturally done that.

Yeah. Okay. When did you guys kind of go in that direction? So we have to give the audience context. You're married to Tucker Max. Yes. Who I read his book, I think when I was in college. I hope they served beer in hell, which turned into a movie, right?

How did you guys meet? His CrossFit coach had trained with me in CrossFit. And she met him at a party one time. And basically she said, well, he was with some girl. And she said, you know, who was? Who are you bringing to my party? Like, this girl just, she's not good enough for you. And he said, okay, well, introduce me to the girl who is.

And she said, well, I know someone, but I don't think you could handle her. And he said, introduce me to the girl that I can't handle. And so anyways, I didn't know. I'd never heard of his books. I'd never read them. That's perfect, though. Yeah. So she texts me and she's like, hey, I've got, you know, this guy I want to set you up with.

His name's, you know, it's the Tucker. It's like Tucker Max. you know, like I'm like, it's someone. And I said, who is that? She said, Google him. And so I Google him. And then I go to his website and it's like, hi, my name's Tucker Max. I get inappropriately drunk and, you know, sleep with all these women.

And I'm like, I thought you're my friend. Why, like, Jen, why are you wanting to, you know, set me up with this guy? And so I said no. And then she kept asking like over a period of six months. And eventually I just had nothing to do on a Saturday night. And I was like, okay, if he calls himself an asshole, he must at least be funny. And then I went on a double date. with them and, you know, the rest is history.

Did you like him right away? I did, because when I met him, I was like, oh, this, he was kind of busting my balls because he, there's a whole story about, he called me a pretty little prepper. What is pretty little prepper? So I, I don't know how we got talking about it, but, like, I had some, like, gold at that point in time and also some. Like, physical gold? Yeah.

Okay. And some, like, freeze-dried food, you know, that I'd bought from Costco. but of course it was like healthy. You know, I didn't want the prep packs that had, you know, TVP or like the soy-based shit in it. It was like, you know, I needed meat and vegetables and stuff. So anyways, I don't know how that came up, but he like was totally busting my balls over that. And I realized, oh, I see you're an asshole because you're direct and you're honest. I'm like, I got it and I can deal with that.

My dad was like that. Let's take a quick break to talk about serve pro. ServePro can make any size disaster like it never even happened. Lauren and I recently had a complete disaster at our house. For those of you that live out here in Texas or hot climates, we had our AC running and the window open. When this happens, sometimes the AC units can overrun and we had a flood in one of our rooms. Luckily, a partner of this show is ServPro. So, and like I said before, ServPro can make any disaster like it never even happened.

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60% of sales in Amazon store come from independent sellers? Most of which are small and medium-sized businesses, just like the Skinny Confidential. And let's talk about Prime Day and the dates. Everyone knows that Amazon Prime Day is July 16th and 17th. I'm personally really excited as a small business owner as there's really no better time than Prime Day to support your favorite small business selling on Amazon. So what I'm going to do, like I said, is I'm going to make a section in my storefront for you guys to shop Prime and for you guys to shop small businesses that are on Prime. I went and picked out all my favorites. I went and bought a bunch and I'll have everything all organized for you. Of course, you'll also see the skinny confidential in there.

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Get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmer's dog.com slash skinny. Plus you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmer's dog.com slash skinny to get 50% off. That's the farmer's dog.com slash skinny. When you knew all of this history that he's had, Was that easy? Was there any bumps in the road with that? I don't care. Let's move forward. I mean, it wasn't like that's who he is. You know, that was a time like most guys are out, you know. He's just honest about it. Yeah. Yeah, most guys are disgusting assholes before they get married. They're all doing the same thing. They're all dogs. You guys are all disgusting. Let's not act like all the women out there are so innocent.

That's true too. You are absolutely correct about that. I'm not saying women aren't innocent. We're just talking about guys right now. I have now been privy because of this show to a lot of the conversation. that you women have behind closer. I'm in there now. I'm like I hear a lot of them and I'm like, in some cases it's much worse than the men. I think women cheat more than men.

I don't know the data on that. I know women precipitate divorce 70% of the time. I kind of like to give that stat all the time to him to be like, you never know. You better be on your toes, buddy. It gives them a little like threat, you know?

Oh, Michael. So how long have you guys been together and how has your relationship evolved as you've evolved as a practitioner. We've been together, what, so 20, 13, 11 years now? Wow. It's a long time. Yeah.

I don't know, time's kind of flown. In some ways, yeah. You know, we've each been, I mean, Tucker will say, like, we've had, like, three marriages almost, like, you know, as we've evolved. I mean, we've evolved tremendously as individuals. We've both been on our own healing and growth journeys. But we've done that together, you know, because clearly, you know, I don't think back in 2013, we were living in a, you know, a penthouse on rainy street. You know, I don't think

we ever envisioned either of us that we'd be out and dripping on land. And, you know, Tucker would be digging holes to plant trees in and come in covered in mud, you know. Yeah, I mean, he was always about, no, just, you know, hire someone else to do that work for you so you can spend time, you know. But there's some things actually, it makes sense and feels good to get your hands dirty. Why do you think he was called so much to that? Like, you know. You know, I'll speak for myself on that one. Well, I can kind of speak for him too, but I mean, for me, as I did more of my emotional healing work, I just had this inner voice. We'd go, we had a place in Tennessee in the mountains that we bought in 2020, backs up to the Smoky Mountain National Park. And we'd come home to the burbs at that point we were living in like, you know, Barton Creek. And it just like felt yucky. And I just had this, this. This. or, you know, voice that said, you cannot be separate from nature and be healthy. And I didn't really know what that meant at the time. Now I have more of an idea of what that meant and why. And that gets into

grounding and sun and being outside and all of, and all of that. But 2020 and COVID happened. And it was just like, screw this. Let's get on land. Let's become more sovereign, you know, as like actually, you know, when we're, we say we want to be sovereign, but we're living in the birds. you know, buying our food at Whole Foods. Right. Let's actually do it. You know, and we were waiting. We'd kind of, we'd have that inkling for a while,

and we were waiting for like the perfect moment to do it. And eventually we just had to say Tucker came home from a trip and was like, I think we just, you know, need to do it. And let's do it. I said, okay. And so we just took the dive, sold our place. It took us a while, you know, we were without a house here for a while. And then until we, six months or so until we found the place on tripping.

What are the biggest challenges about kind of living that way versus more suburban city, Whole Foods life? I mean, I would have said in the past, you know, like, I have to commute to Austin occasionally, to my office there. Maybe challenge isn't the right word, but I guess maybe the biggest differences. It's like it's the conveniences that are of living in the city. I mean, because I had this idea, even like when we moved to Barton Creek, I, like, it's funny that I love living further out now because I was kind of, you know, I didn't want to move to Barton Creek because that wasn't like, that was out of the city to me, which is just suburban for people who don't live in Austin. But it's just, you know, the idea that, oh, I like to go to Uchi or Uchiko or, you know, these restaurants and, you know, easily be able to run to the grocery store. So you just have to change the way that you think, you know. So when you go to the grocery store, you know, it's 30 minutes away.

So you're going to just, you know, buy what you need for the week or whatever. I am inspired by that. You have mentioned you each one on your own path of healing. What was specifically that looking like? Yeah. So one of the things that I didn't mention this, so when Tucker and I met on our second date, so on our first date, you know, he'd asked me all that. He was asking all that, just as like my husband does,

very probing, like questions about my family and my upbringing. And he wasn't trying to be probing per se. He's just very direct and interested. And I was kind of like squirming in my seat at like later. like now I can look back and I was like super anxious, you know, but also, you know, interested at the same time that, wow, this guy's so interested in me that he's asking these questions. So on our second date then, and he had told me that he'd been in therapy. And so I asked him, you know, I said, I've been thinking about it. And, you know, there's some things that, you know,

that you came up in our conversation. I think I need to probably address, you know, do you have any therapists that you'd recommend? And that like gobsmacked him. You like, you know, that was shocking for him that I was actually, you know, going to take that kind of self-reflective step. And so he'd been in therapy at that point, and that's when I started my kind of therapeutic journey. And I was doing, he was doing psychoanalysis, and that's what I got into, which is very, really, very intellectual. And I think that's kind of, you know, when it's, when you're staying in your head and not connecting with your body, there's limitations to, you know, the benefit you're going to get out of that. You know, so personally, and then I've, you know, moved on to trying, you know,

craniosacral, which is breath work. And, you know, and then I've, you know, done some therapeutic work with psychedelics. And he has as well. And all guided and facilitated, right, and safe settings. And yeah, and that's kind of, you know, and then, you know, finding different, you know, talk therapy and therapeutic modalities like somatic experiencing and NARM and internal family systems and things like that are that are more embodied, you know, and that's kind of, you know, been, kind of how that's gone. I have to ask you off air some questions about this. Before you go, I have to get, because I've asked you this off air, your take on raw milk. So just to get a little background, I started posting about raw milk and how much I love it. It's amazing. I think

it's the best pre-workout because I put it with my coffee and it's a little bit of protein, a little bit of sugar, a little bit of carb. Yeah. And it keeps me really satisfied. And I noticed that my body was craving it. So then I came to you and I was like, hey, like with my son, I'm giving him milk. Can I give him raw milk? And you were like, let it rip. Give your take on this because for some reason, people think it's so weird that I would want to give my family raw real milk. That's funny. So, you know, it's like the circles that I run in now. It's like, oh, that's the, the weird thing would be to give the pasteurized milk, you know? I think we're in those circles now. Yeah. Oh, good. No, I mean, like raw milk is the more natural version of milk with the live enzymes and, you know, all the things that help you digest it, all the, you know, the, all of the reasons that you would drink milk, raw milk has those things in it and it's alive, right?

So pasteurized milk, they heated up at high temperatures and it kills all of those enzymes and probiotics and things like that. And that actually makes it more difficult to digest. You know, like, I can't drink pasteurized milk without getting a stomach ache. Neither can you. I never drink pasteurized milk. Well, I don't drink it anymore because, but like if I were to have ice cream from like lick per se, I'm going to get a tummy ache. Yeah. But my husband makes raw milk ice cream literally like every night and it doesn't cause me a problem.

Wait, hold on. How does he make raw milk ice cream? Is he like milking the cow and bringing it in and churning the butter? How does he do that? So we get, our neighbor makes it. This is where community comes in handy. Like, so my neighbor around the Sunday. France Farms. They, she met, she has a Jersey cow and I get my raw milk from her. Okay. You know,

it's all legal through a co-op deal here in Texas. But, uh, and then, you know, he has, we have the, I think it's winter, W-H-Y-N-T-E-R. It's a machine that like freezes it. You don't have to put it in the freezer beforehand. It makes, you know, from start to finish, you've got ice cream in like 30 minutes. And what does he put in the ice cream? Raw milk, heavy cream, maple syrup, honey, vanilla, salt. I think. That's it. I am doing a blog post called Veronica and Tucker Max ice cream recipe with raw milk. I swear. That sounds so good. Oh, he does actually these these chocolates, like 90% dark chocolate that has a little bit of toffee or something in there that he throws in the blender and then throws it in. Well, you text me exactly the thing.

Yes. What should people look for when they're buying raw milk? Like, is there anything that is a red flag to you? Because I know sometimes like it needs to be from the right source. Yeah. I mean, I think most people who are doing. that like a small farm right that I don't I don't know in the world that I live in I feel much safer going with the neighbor down the street who I know you know the conditions the cows living in and what she's doing and you know her cleanliness practices then I do some corporate entity who doesn't know me and has no responsive but like like say I got sick from the raw milk like she would feel horrible she would know about it and all of our community would know about it. There's like very real repercussions there for her. As opposed to like, you know, purity dairy or whatever. Cudson's. Yeah. Yeah. Like they don't. Cudson's milk. How do you say it? Is it nuts since? I don't know. My mom, every mom in the 90s had the blue non-fat milk. Nudson's, whatever the fuck it's called milk. And they thought non-fat milk was healthy. I got turned off to that kind of milk because I had a friend who would always tell me like if you don't drink milk,

you're going to break your bones. You have weak bones. And this guy, I swear, he had bird bones. He would these things would snap left and because he wasn't drinking raw. And so I was like, this guy's drinking all the milk and like his snapping left and right. And so I was like, no, no, no. It was because it wasn't raw. Well, and also we were joking. There's other things in there too. But yeah. I was talking to my dad and I was explaining this and he's older and, you know, like he's maybe been told that this is a, you know, you reads the headlines like bird flu, raw milk. And you realize like there's actually been no cases, but I digress. I've had people, yeah. And so I was telling I'm like, you know, like when you grew up, my dad's turning 80, I'm like when you grew up as a kid,

there was no such thing as raw, it was just called milk, right? It's just what we come up with these weird terms now because there's all these new ways to, but like milk was just normal. It was just milk. Just like homebirth was normal. All babies were bored at home. I'm not going to actually talk to you if I have another baby about homebirth. I think it's amazing. I actually am not that scared to do a homebirth. I'm more scared that my home will get messy. Well, the cool, see, you don't know this about midwives, but midwives will make sure that your houses, they won't leave until, like, laundry's done, you've been fed, everything's baby's breastfeeding, that everything is in order.

Wait, so could I have Townsend Zaza there watching? Yeah, it doesn't scare them. I invited my kids to, when I had Cardinal, my two-year-old, and it happened I, like, had her at, like, 8 p.m. or something, and so they were in, like, they didn't, they weren't that interested. No, like there's all kinds of, you know, I've seen women having their babies with their younger children there. And I think for women especially, that's super important for children to see that that's possible. It's not scary. There's so much fear, you know, around birth. And being able to witness that, I mean, I think that is the way that you dispel that fear that we have in society.

Does it hurt? Yeah, it hurts. Like really bad? I mean, I can handle pain. I just want to know, like, I've had four kids at home. All natural. Yeah. And I'm not some, you know, we like to create these stories. Oh, well, she's a, you know, she's a superwoman, whatever, because she did this, you know, like look at her. But no, like, you know, my first, I remember having Bishop at home. That was my first.

And had I been in the hospital, hell yeah, I would have asked for some pain meds. Like, it hurt. It's almost like you couldn't because of where you were. So it's just like it wasn't an option. So I wasn't going to ask. And you know what? I knew myself. I think that's part of the reason I, I, I chose.

was a home birth because I knew that these interventions have consequences and at home it's just not an option. Would you, what if I had a home birth? What would you do? You would be so like, I don't know, I could, would you be anxious? I would have to talk to- I could see you pacing around. I would have to talk to Veronica for a while.

We'd have to do a couple sessions. So the midwives actually handle you to. And so he was funny, like, he is the type that like, he doesn't, you do not tell him what to do. The midwives, like, he realized afterwards like, shit, they had me like, you know, doing whatever they, you know, they were like ordering me around and I just did it and didn't even think about it. And they asked him like, what, you know, spengali stuff were you doing like, like, you know, techniques were you using on me? But they just have this way where they just kind of like whisper suggestions from the side, you know.

In that situation, I'm doing what I'm told. Yeah, they had him, you know, they had him. I'm not going to be like, I got it, guys. I'm just going to do what I'm told because I don't know. So initially, so it started with like he put his hand on me. He's like, oh, like I was going through a contraction. He's like, oh, you're going to be okay. and I was like, get off of me. Like, this hurts, you know?

Like, I got pissed because you don't tell someone who's in pain it's going to be okay. Fuck you. And also, like, what are they doing? Like, sitting, eating your pickup sticks. No, I'm in pain and it's not okay, you know? And, you know, and so they got oriented him to just, you know, provide me with water and making coffee and being pre. And just, you know, and that was like, that was great. That's exactly what I needed and supporting me when I needed it.

You know, so they'll put you to work, Michael. I do like the idea of not having to sleep on that. shitty cot that's in the hospital. Yeah. This is literally not about where you're sleeping. You go get you a cot and make you see. You go straight to your bed and you go to sleep. Yeah, like, I bring a whole-

Poking and prodding you all night long. The first time I went to the hospital, I was unprepared. The second time, I looked like I was camping for a week. I could only imagine. I showed up with all this stuff. The nurse, like, moving in. I was like, I know that caught. I know what's waiting for me.

I'm kind of like, Michael's dying. I actually am kind of like thinking about a homebirth. To be honest, they don't really take care of the men in those hospitals. Of course I don't. How are you literally making this about you? You know, the food's not great. I literally don't care.

Go stay in the hospital while I give birth at home. All the women are listening. I just want you to know like we are sitting on that cot and it is painful during birth. Okay? And it's not nice and it's cold. What if you need like stitches or like? They can do.

So let me and I want to come back to the pain thing too because yes, it hurts. But there are things like, you know, you can't discount the sense of safety by being in your own home and have, you know, like, that is, that creates safety and that relieves pain. Being, I gave birth to all of my kids in water, like warm water, that relieves pain. He set up like a pool in your house? Yeah, yeah, like a blow-up, you know, birthing pool thing. How do they get the water in? You have to have a special adaption for, and you put a hose on the, you know, the sink and you got to prep all this stuff beforehand. I don't know that I would like all these people in

my house. You can choose who's there. But think about all the people in the hospital. In the hospital, you don't have a say in who's there. at home, you can say who's who you want there and who you don't want. And honestly, in the hospital, and this is an important point. And I think a lot of people don't know this. In the hospital, you can tell people to get the fuck out. Oh, I did. Okay. The interns came in like, the interns came in like, Drisela and Anastasia from Cinderella. Yeah. They were like, hi, I'm like, out. Yeah. Like, people, you. I was like, you guys want a tini's cookie? I mean, you were like, do you want a signed book? He like gave me a book here. I was like, do you have a, do you have an upgrade on the sofa?

I was like a free book for anyone that's got an upgrade. I can't. Like Michael trying to work the, work the system. I'll do whatever I got to do. Veronica, we go to you for our families, medical care in Texas. We were attracted to you because I love how you pair Eastern and Western together. And I love how you give us choice over the direction of where we're going. I don't ever feel like there's been any pressure.

If someone wants to work with you, where can they find you? I, one thing I do have to say that I love about your services is I can text you whenever. It's like an open channel. If I have a question, you've come to my home before. It's very like personal. Yeah. Our website's ultra-personal. Healthcare and all the information's there.

Yeah. Instagram. They want to DM you. At ultra-personal. com. Perfect. And go by Tucker's first book. Thank you, Bronica.

Thank you. Thanks, guys.