The Bossticks - If You Find This Conversation Uncomfortable... It's For You. Featuring Topsie VandenBosch

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

#280: On this episode we are joined by Topsie VandenBosch. Topsie is a mindset coach committed to helping female entrepreneurs who are struggling with toxic thought patterns, negative thoughts, and beliefs. On today's episode we discuss how to be anti-racist, how to invite others into hard conversations, how to listen and learn from another persons experience, and how to educate yourself to be a better person. We also discuss mindset for entrepreneurs and individuals looking to improve their circumstances and break through mental walls.  To connect with Topsie Vandenbosch click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Each & Every Each & Every's gender-inclusive deodorant is formulated for sensitive skin–made without aluminum, parabens, baking soda, alcohol, and synthetic fragrances. With just 6 simple ingredients (plus essential oils), Each & Every uses natural ingredients like coconut oil and Dead Sea salt that work together to reduce body odor. Try it risk free with a 30 day money back guarantee and receive 30% off your first purchase by visiting eachandevery.com/skinny and using promo code skinny.  This episode is brought to you by Daily Harvest Daily Harvest is a life saver. They help you stock your home with clean, delicious food that's built on real fruits and vegetables. They're farm-frozen to lock in peak nutrients and taste. With Daily Harvest there's tons of options for anytime of day, from Smoothies, to Harvest Bowls, Flatbreads and more. And The best part? It's ready to enjoy in minutes. Keep it simple this summer with Daily Harvest. Go to www.dailyharvest.com and enter promo code SKINNY to get twenty-five dollars off your first box!  The episode is brought to you by Embark The Embark Dog DNA Test Kit is the most comprehensive kit on the market, looking at over350 breeds, types, and varieties and 175 genetic health conditions, to help you best care for your pup this summer, Embark has a limited time offer just for our listeners! Go to www.embarkvet.com now and use Promo code SKINNY to get $50 off your Dog Breed and Health kit.  Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Aha. Sometimes people don't hear the little people until you actually say something out loud and not all the hush, hush behind closed doors. because I think that that's why systematic racism and just systemic racism has been rampant in our culture since the beginning of time is because there's a lot of behind the scenes discussions about things and nothing's really brought to the light. Made it to Friday, everybody. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show back in the studio. Feeling good. That clip was from our guests of the show today. Topsie Van and Bosch on this episode,

we are diving into a lot of topics that's been long time coming on this show talking about systematic racism, talking about prejudice in the office space, talking about. Talking about, how to be woke or learning how to be woke. For those of you that are new to the show, my name is Michael Bostic. I'm a serial entrepreneur and brand builder. Most recently, the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And to my right, not across to me because we're in the studio, my wife, my wife, my rock. You're rock. You're rock? I don't know. Just introduce I'm Lauren Everett's the creator of the Skinny Confidential. I'm so excited for this episode. Topsy is a fucking badass. You guys are going to be obsessive.

with her. I actually met her on Instagram. She's a mind coach. She works with female entrepreneurs who are struggling with toxic thought patterns, negative thoughts, and beliefs that prevent them from showing up and making bank in their business. And I cried on this episode. And he cried. Like a little bitch. Yeah, you cried. That was cute. It's okay, Lauren. It's okay to be vulnerable once in a while. Yeah, I like that. I think that's really cute. Am I going to get some later? Don't make me cry again. Don't make me cry again. It'll be crying for a different reason. So guys, stay tuned. Listen to why I cried. Listen to why my wife just finds me so incredibly irresistible. Okay. Like I said, Topsy is a mindset coach. She's a clinical therapist and she's also true crime

obsessed and she is going to drop some major realness on this episode. With that, let's welcome the incredible, beautiful, gorgeous Topsy to the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. It's nice to be back in the studio with Taylor because you never know if he's actually doing his work or if he's watching porn. masturbating. Listen, don't get me in trouble. We're already trying to get the soft opening of the office. We're taking, listen, listen, people, we're taking the proper precautions, but I don't,

he's not watching porn back there. He's, he's social distancing, he's sanitizing, he's wearing masks. I don't know about that. I'm so dead. Yeah, I just, and if he's not, we can't see him, so it didn't happen. Suspicious sounds are coming. Okay, so we have Topsy in studio. I was just going to tell Michael this off air, but I guess we'll talk about it on air.

I made her put it on air. I love it. Okay. So how we met, I put that in question. Quote, we were talking over Instagram before everything that went down with Black Lives Matter. For sure. And when that all went down, you went on your story and you were talking to the camera about multiple different things. And you were talking about creators who you think can do better.

Yes. And in one of them, you tagged me. And so I went to watch it. And I thought she's right. We can totally do better. We can definitely have more diverse guests on the show, on the blog. And just really agreed with you. So I messaged you and I said, I think I said you're right or something.

I don't know exactly what exactly. You were like, this is really, this is really, this is good feedback. Because that was my whole point was to create like conversation and not to like block it off. Because I do think when it comes to anti-racism education and like, especially for your listeners who are not familiar, there's a method of calling out racism in a way where number one, it invites people into a conversation. So that can be calling out, but creating actual steps. Like, hey, here's what you could do to improve. There's calling in where I don't recommend that people of color or black people feel like they

have to call people in who are demonstrating racist behaviors. But I think that calling in could be reserved maybe for white allies who are calling out other white allies. Like, hey, let's have a conversation. How come you did that? Why did you think that that was okay? So that's like calling in. So my method is a mixture of both.

But I really want to create conversation because I think that sometimes people don't No, unless I hate to say it that way because I love you guys. I fuck with your podcast. But unfortunately, sometimes people don't hear the little people until you actually say something out loud and not all the hush, hush behind closed doors. Because I think that that's why systematic racism and just systemic racism has been rampant in our culture since the beginning of time is because there's a lot of behind the scenes discussions about things and nothing's really brought to the light. All this is based on ignorance. People are ignorant. Yes.

You know, we are ignorant as a people. We don't know. And two, people get uncomfortable all things they're ignorant about it. They get uncomfortable making other people uncomfortable. So they think, okay, I'm not going to address it and talk about it because they don't. And so I think there's a, here's what I've exhibited here or what I've observed throughout this whole process. I choose to believe that there's a, the majority of the people in this country are well-intentioned good people. There is a handful.

And I think we'd say that's the minority. There's a handful of people that are not well-intentioned people and bad people. And those people should be called out and there should be light shed on them and we should know about it. But the majority of people I choose to believe are well-intentioned, but scared to have hard conversations. And so what happens is the conversations don't happen. And what we think is like, okay, since we don't believe, we don't say we have just saying, as a people believe, we're not contributing to a problem. And by not contributing to a problem as we see it, we're not part of it.

But part of the problem is that people are unwilling to have these conversations. So in a way they are contributing to the problem. 100%. First of all, the pitch you sent in was incredible. Well, thank you. We haven't got there yet. Hold on one second. Lauren's like, wait.

We can touch on it. But I think, you know, what I realize through this process is what I believe the power of this show is what Lauren and I try to do well and of course can do better at is have conversations and share these conversations with people that want to listen. For sure. It's not necessarily like what we, what Lauren and I do on this show most of the time is learn. Right. We talk to people like you and we learn. And so and hopefully the listeners get a benefit of that learning. And hopefully what these type of things do is they start conversations.

and get people more comfortable around them. I agree. So you started the conversation on Instagram story. I responded. And when I responded, I was very peaceful. Oh, you were, yeah. Not to you. I mean, I felt very peaceful.

Yeah, I could sense it. Yeah, and we kind of talked over Instagram story. And then I went and looked at your page and you've got all this cool shit going on, which we're going to get into, life coaching all this amazing stuff that's motivational, inspirational. And then I said, listen, send me your pitch. Yep. And you can talk about that because the pitch was insane.

Oh, thank you. It's the best pitch we've ever gotten to the show. Oh, get out. Tell us about the pitch. You guys have gotten so many good fish. Paul Fisher had a good pitch. I think that's his, that's true. He had a really good pitch.

I remember that episode and I remember being like, I need to do whatever he did. You had a great pitch. So tell us about how you put that together and what your, like, what your vibe was with that. Creating the pitch? Oh, man. I was like, what do I want people to hear for me on this podcast? Because I think for many of my black women, who I work with. They have never heard of this podcast or if they do go to listen to it. They're like,

I don't know if I'm going to have anything in common with this like, you know, blonde girl and her white, in her white man. Like, what kinds of stories could they have that I could relate to? And I think that that comes from a place of privilege, whether you realize it or not, even though you guys are doing really good work in this world. And I love the, like, every single interview is like a knock out the park. And there's always really good conversation. However, is it relatable? Like, I really think about it from the lens of the people that I grew up with, if I can't refer them to this podcast, you know, like, this is how it'll tangibly help you in your career or whatever. Like, they're going to look at the two people on the picture and be like, all right, I'm already

triggered. First thing they're going to think is, man, that's a handsome man. Exactly. Lauren's so over it. No, but I fully get, I mean, you know, the brand is built in a way that, like, it was built off the skinny confidential. It's light and it's pink. And like, listen, I didn't have a lot of input in putting myself on a bright pink cover

up. But I get it. Like, it looks a certain way. Even in a weird way, like with some men, like, I think, I was talking to a friend yesterday and I was like, man, of all backgrounds could listen and find some. For sure. But they look at that pink cover and they're like, this isn't for me. See?

Yep. So how did you come up with this pitch and how can people out there do a similar type of pitch? Oh, this is really good. Okay. Thank you. I'll get back to it. Okay.

So I'm being really humble here, but I'm really not a humble person. So let's just, let's just not do that, Tapsie. So the pitch, I was like, okay, so what do I want people to know? What I want them to know about me, I want them to know that I'm not an anti-racism educator. I want them to know how I help six and seven figure female entrepreneurs and their businesses. But I also want black women to know that they belong here. They can take up space. They can send in these types of pitches and they will be considered, right?

So I wanted to be that example because I know that pitches get lost. I know that. They get lost. You guys get a sea of like 800. 900 pitches. But I think what happens when it comes to guest selection, this is where I think some systemic or systematic racism kind of comes into play or like white supremacy because of the proximity you guys are to maybe people who are in my tax bracket or whatever or my career. Like you get limited as far as what stories you're hearing and how relatable are they to

your current audience or the audience that wants to listen to you, but they don't, they don't hear about a, you know, West African immigrant me, West African immigrant who, you know, is the product of really educated parents and who made their way in America. But I was taught that I will always have to work harder than my white counterparts, right? And that's not something I've heard on your podcast before. But because I did grow up with a level of privilege within my own community, I understand. And I have empathy. And I get it. Oh, hello. I am just sitting in my sweatsuits. smelling so good, which is rare for me because I haven't worn deodorant in a long time until I was

recently introduced to each and every. We've discussed this on Instagram stories. We're going to pull it to the podcast because I feel so confident to recommend this deodorant to you guys. I have been using it every single day for the last two months. I am personally a fan of the ginger one. There's something about the smell of ginger that I just really, really love. So basically as all always, but even more so I did all my research on this. So this one has six simple ingredients and essential oil. So it uses natural ingredients like coconut oil and dead sea salt that work together to reduce body odor. I have been looking for a deodorant like this forever. Just ask my husband. If I knew that all I needed to do was chop down some coconuts and go into the sea for some

salt, I would have done that a lot time ago. And add a little bit of ginger too. So just some background for you. Each and every was founded by two women in the beauty industry who were frustrated by the lack of high quality and natural deodorant options. This has been my problem forever. I mean, I couldn't believe after 11 years of blogging that I hadn't found a deodorant that I was absolutely in love with. I mean, I've tried every single thing. Nothing was working. So to actually have something that works is amazing. I can understand the founder's frustrations in the beginning. It goes on really, really smooth, too. I think that's important. So it's not like chalky or sticky. And this is something that my husband, again, is just so happy about.

It keeps me odor free all day long. You should also know it's vegan and cruelty free. Visit each and every.com slash skinny and use promo code skinny for 30% off your first purchase. Note that that is not eligible to combine with other discounts or subscriptions. That's promo code skinny at each and every.com slash skinny for 30% off your first purchase. Try the ginger one and thank me later. Wow. That's a very like broad. Well, I want to talk. I know. There's so many things I want to cover on this episode, but I want to learn more about a little bit about you. So you touch on your child a little bit. Let's get a little background. What was your childhood like? Where'd you grow up? What was your background? And how did you get into the space that you're in now? Yeah. So I grew up with a dad who's in higher level academia. So he's a assistant vice provost at Spelman College in Atlanta. And he, he's a assistant vice provost at Spelman College in Atlanta. And he, he, He had humble beginnings. He came to the U.S. on scholarship, I believe, for his Ph.D.

He went to Cornell. And so we ended up winning the lottery and being able to immigrate here to the United States. So I came to the States when I was... Wait, you ended up winning the lottery. What does that mean? So it's like a term for people who want to gain citizenship. Taylor's ex-girlfriend. Taylor, didn't she win?

Here's my guarantee. It's very interesting. Yeah, yeah, yes. Turn your mic on, Taylor. You never have your mic on. But it's like you basically get granted. citizenship by just like like a lottery type system. Yeah, basically like a lottery type system. And so I think I believe Cornell footed some of the bill or I'm guessing. I don't quite know how all of that

works since they were sponsoring him because he was coming here to, he was coming there here to go to school there. And so I've lived in different states. I've lived in Maryland. I grew up in Michigan, mainly. We lived in New York. So we moved around quite a bit. But my dad was always in academia. My mom, I believe she started working in the state. because the way it works, again, the educational system's different here than there. So they were already pretty educated. But in order to come to the states oftentimes as an immigrant, you have to go back to school, which it's just so insulting, but they kind of look at the educational system and say,

you're not up to our standards. And so that's just kind of how it is. And so my mom already had her bachelor's degree, but she ended up getting her master's degree here in social work. And so I grew up in a very, I was very aware of many things growing up that I think a lot of people may not have been exposed to, you know, and I think just me and an African immigrant was hard. So much racism. Go deeper there. What were you exposed to that you don't think people? Racism, a lot. Give it, give me an example. Yeah, I'll give an example. Oh my gosh, teasing about my

hair, my hair texture. I remember for a long time, it took me a long time to really be proud of being African. In fact, I, I remember growing up. I really wanted to avoid the conversations of where I'm from because my name was so different. You know, my legal first name is Tamie Toppe. And so God's blessing is upon you. And so I remember never, so I started going by Topsy very young. And I loved it, to be honest, growing up, because it just, I ended up avoiding so many stupid conversations about my name, but Topsy still got shit. So it's like, no matter what, it didn't matter. And so growing up, I was teased a lot. Oh, my God. It was just not. So a lot of racism. So a lot of racism, a lot of overt and covert racism. You know, like, did you grow up on trees? And these

were always white kids. Always. They were always white kids. So if there is someone out there that's young that's listening to this that's experiencing racism like you did when you were little, what are your tools in your toolbox? Ooh, we, yeah. I think what I did growing up, this sounds so shitty, but I feel like as black people, we've had to develop a very thick skin. And I would definitely say to really rely on your support system. And I would definitely say to really rely on your support systems, know who you are, get educated about your culture, and just fall in love with it as much as you can. It's hard shit. It's really hard. I think something that was helpful for me is that, you know, I just tried to think about the fact that they have never been

exposed to anything. And so that's why they feel like it's okay to tease people and make fun of their hair. But the shit never went away. I mean, when I got older, I mean, I've experienced discrimination because of hairstyles. You know, this isn't professional for the workplace. These, this, this red, these red braids, oh my God. Like, I would have been so mortified in the corporate world to wear this. In some corporate settings, they still don't respect black hair, black texture. It's just, it's bizarre.

It's wild. I think I'm opening my eyes so big because I just, I can't comprehend that. But when I hear the story, I'm like, immediately I'm like, okay, I need to educate myself more because just like Michael said earlier, because I don't see it, I think it's not there, but it is there. It's very much there. So off of Michael, what you had to say, I heard you, I heard you say, you want to believe. And I love that you said that. You want to believe that most people want to do good things. I don't know that I buy into it. I think that there are people who have well-meaning intentions. But intentions don't have shit to do with the impact, right? And so like I think even

as white people like shutting down conversations in regards to white privilege, right? Like, does that mean that you're a human that wants to do the right thing? Or are you afraid to really realize, like, what exactly you've benefited from? It's not about being ashamed of being white, but what have you benefited from? Yeah. Yeah, I did this small video. And I don't have a big social phone, but I did a video on my account. And they're like, the basic point of the video.

And we can talk about this in a second with like all these people coming out of statements and company on any PRPs and all that's like, which is complete bullshit in my opinion. I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. some of my partners are going to come in and yell at me. Whatever. But here's the thing. Per usual. I'm going to get trouble for that per usual. But here's the thing. I, you know, I did this video and like the point of it was shut the fuck up for a second and listen to someone else's perspective and story. And so like for me, like it's been a lot of like, I've been just observing. I haven't said a lot. I haven't taken like huge things. But I want to

have these conversations because again, I think they're going to be the most impactful for this platform. But it's been about, okay, listening. And like you said, it's not necessarily someone's fault for the privilege that you don't know, you don't choose the circumstances you're born in, but it can be your fault if you're unwilling to listen and learn to something new. Like if you're not willing to grow and evolve and learn and listen, like, then you are a big part of the problem. Exactly. You can't just shut things down.

Yeah. How you go about that and what you take away, like that's a process. Agree. No person of privilege is going to learn this in a month's time or a week's time. Like, this is something that you have to practice in your daily life. It is. It is. It is.

And my husband's white. And so even for him, I mean, he's always been down for the cost. You know, but he's had to, oh my God, I remember a few years ago, your white people came out on Netflix. And I was like, let's watch it. He was so triggered. I mean, steam. Because he's like, this is divisive. And I'm like, oh, no, oh, no.

Did I marry a Trump? Like, what just happened? You know, you guys still talking about politics. But I just remember being like, what the fuck? Why does this trigger you so much? I thought that you've gotten desensitized and gotten educated on a lot of this shit. Because it's because it calls us out and it makes us feel uncomfortable. 100%. He was like, well, why does it need to be? Dear, oh, he's going to lose his shit when he hears me out of him like this. But I love him to death and he's great. I mean, he gets it now. But I mean, how have you taken it upon yourself with everything that's going on to have conversation with him? Oh, my God. That's actually been hard. It was really hard. But I'm like, I'm his wife and I married him because I know he's woke as fuck. I know he cares about me. It's not just for optics or anything like that.

you know, he's always been for the culture and he's always given back to the culture and he's just an incredible human. So I just felt like it was my responsibility to talk to him and he respects me. And so he listened. And now he's like, holy shit, I can't believe some of the stuff that I used to say and think. And he's a doctor. So I told him like, you have a whole other level of privilege. Your primary care doctor. Can you give me an example maybe because you know I like details of what's something he thought that now has changed or can you not think of something else?

So there's a lot of talk right now, which is cool about anti-racism. And I think it confuses a lot of people because they're like, what are you talking about? I'm not racist. So if I'm not racist, why do I need anti-racism education? And the reason for that is, so my husband, he thought he, because he wasn't racist, that was enough. So he's like, what are you talking about this anti-. So that was the first time he's ever. And I realized, like, I've, I've just taken it for granted that I didn't think white people gave a fuck about this type of stuff. So I never. So I never. talked about it. So he's like, what is it? And I'm like, anti-racism education is the practice of being an actual, like being on the journey of being an ally. Like, are you actively speaking out? Are you donating? Are you divesting into, you know, black businesses? Like, what are you doing in order to because this is a crisis in America? Black bodies are being murdered on the street. So it's not enough to just be not racist. You have to be anti-racist. And that's a practice. So I think a lot of white people and white companies are waking up to, who shit. Like personally.

Yeah. And, you know, maybe some people disagree with this. Lauren and I have had so many different perspectives on this show. And like, honestly, in our personal life, like, I don't care if you're black, white, blue, green. I don't see it. Right. And I, and, you know, gay, straight, trans, it doesn't matter. And so because we think like that.

Yes. And maybe people will say, no, you don't. But like, because, like, I'm telling you, we think like that. Yes. We assume, oh, we're not part of the problem. We actually are like the good guys. Yeah, yeah. The solution.

And it wasn't like, the thing that I'm grateful for with this event is like, it got me to realize like, wait a minute, just because like I choose to not like the way I'll hire, the way I'll get shows, like I'm not looking at anything. I'm just like, is this a talented person? But then now I've realized like, okay, as somebody that's leading a company, a forward facing company, that's media that can change narratives. Yeah. Not only do I have to think about this, I have to be proactive about it. Yeah. So most of the things I'm doing in these interviews and we could talk about some of these companies and statements right now, which would be controversial. But every interview I've been doing lately said, I'm not participating in cancel culture. I'm not going on apology tour. Judge me by my actions in six months to a year and see what dear media does and what I do.

Because that to me is much more interesting. Where like these companies that go and they're like, here's my statement that's written by somebody. All of us as consumers from every background. Look at this. I'm like, what the fuck is this? I would love to know your opinion. But listen, it's like, who the fuck wrote this? And it just doesn't feel. So like for me, I'm like, I will be your face. We'll just go do something. Yeah. And I want to ask from your perspective, and again, this may get me in trouble. When you see statements like that, you see like, how do you feel about it? Like, you're like, you're rolling your eyes. Like, that's, oh my God. I, like, I'm like, can we like stop being reactive? Like, I get it on one hand. I really like, this is why I like, I love your brand is because you guys aren't going to get bullied into doing anything that you don't like, you're going to think it through. You're going to educate yourself. I'm not posting a black square. You're very strategic and I love that. If I don't know why I'm posting a black square, I'm not going to post it because everyone. doing it. I actually want to go out and do the work. And then, like Michael said, talk to me in six

months. Yeah. I love that. I love that. And that's what I wish that some of these, because I understand saying like, you know, we stand with Black Lives. Black Lives Matter. I think that mattered because so many of us were looking for that. But beyond that, it was like, do the work. Just do the work. We do want to know where you stand because we want to know where to spend our coin. But it's not, but it's not like I could do this. No, no, no. Exactly. Because we notice that shit too. Yes. It's not like I could put the statement up and put the black square and then go back to normal life. Which a lot of people did. My thing is like I'm going to proactively choose to not do the short things. I'm going to do the longer things and talk to me in six months to a year to five years.

Like that's just. But like this wasn't like I'll just be transparent. A lot of this just didn't pop up on my personal radar because of my privilege because of this. Yeah. And now that it has. I'm like, okay. So now you know, right? That's the whole point.

And this is where I think people in this country should reserve some space for people. if you see them trying. Because what I don't like, and I did a Facebook, Instagram Live with a guy I'm friends with, and we talked about like, make sure, like, if people are trying that you acknowledge the trying

and that you support them, you don't just shut them down and attack. There's a lot of attacking going on right now. There is. Then you're scared. I agree. I think it is a double-edged short. I do have,

I hear you though. And I have empathy and I think it's because of what I do. I have a lot of empathy and I hold a lot of space for people. So I understand that it's important to encourage people if they're trying. I do that. I believe in that. However, it's another perspective. I think another perspective is, I think for so long, we have had to dance around topics and just like fucking tap dance all the goddamn time. So I'm like, it's okay if white folks have to play double Dutch. You might get some black people or people are a person of color that's like completely not with it. Like they're like, you know what? Do what you want to do. Do the work. I'm going to cut you when you're down because our lives are like, we're going through shit. So I don't have the energy or the same. space to coddle you on your journey. But then there will be some people who are like, because

everyone's personality is different, right? Black people are not a monolith. So then you're going to get some people who are like me that are like, I get it. I'm married to a white husband. I've had to have patience with his ass. So I can offer that to other people who I see are continuously trying. You know, so it's just another perspective that black people are like, you know what? Like, we're fucking sick and tired. Yeah. You know? I guess to clarify what I'm saying is, like, I'm willing, When I say I'm not participating in cancel culture, apologies, I'm willing to take the short-term punches for people being like, hey, fuck this guy, he's not with it. Right.

But what I'm saying is like, let's see what happens in six months ago. And I'm willing to in the short term, not look the best, but in the long-term, I think. Yeah, yep, and that's what it's about. Okay, I'm going to tell you about Daily Harvest. You have seen it all over my Instagram stories. Now, this is like the best invention ever. Basically, you open the door. there's a box on your door from Daily Harvest. You take the box and you open it up. And inside are these

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That's promo code skinny for $25 off your first box at daily harvest.com. Dailyharvest.com and try the strawberry peach one. You will not be sorry. How did you feel during that whole week? What does it feel like? It was a fog. My account went viral. My account went viral, which was not my intention.

I just wanted to speak out about shit that I felt. I felt like I had been muzzled for fucking years. And it was like the muzzle. was off. I was saying whatever the fuck I felt, but I thought about everything I said. Because I believe that you can speak from emotion and still be very strategic. So I had a lot of emotion, but I knew how to channel it in the right way. And so I felt like that week, it was just a fucking fog. Like, I'm connecting with people that I've always, like, I've always, you know, supported their platforms, whether it was a podcast, whether it was a book or whatever.

But I'm saying like what it is I've always wanted to say and now they're listening. And it was very surreal, very bizarre. My account gained so much traction, which was not the point. And it was just like, really? Like, is this for real though? Like, you know, it was just a, it was a very weird feeling where it's like companies and people were listening and wanting me on their podcast. And it was like, is this for real, though? Like, I don't want to be your token.

I have a friend that called me. Yeah. When all this was going on. Okay. And she says, you need to get more diverse people on your podcast. And I go, hold on. I am not just going to do something to check a box. Yeah.

So I'm just going to be honest. If your pitch was not something that I think the audience would have gained value, I would have said I love you as a listener. You're amazing. Right. But this just isn't a fit. As you should. And I think that there was that respect.

Yeah. I have a question just going back to. But what we were talking about, do you feel now that there's weight lifted off your shoulders because of that cathartic sort of transformational week? Or do you feel like things are going back to normal? How do you feel right now? I think I feel a lot settled in like, I feel like I've said a lot of what I wanted to say. And now I'm just going back in to do the work like I've always been. So I can't say that the fog got lifted, but I just learned how to just maneuver through these weird times. We're just in a weird time. And I think I'm just going to have to be very selective

as to, you know, what companies I decide to work with or, you know, what podcasts I decide to go on, what books I read, what businesses I buy from. I think it's just part of the Black experience. It's just figuring out how to how to make sure that your works and who you are and what you stand for is respected, you know? A lot of our audience messaged us and message me during all this and said, can you please have someone come on to educate us? And I started listening to all these different podcasts and reading. And I heard it's not your job to educate us. Can you speak on that?

Yeah, I can. If you agree or you don't agree. I do. Let me call out a bunch of white women right now because I get the most shit from the white women. What the fuck is going on with these white women? I don't know. Am I allowed to say that? I don't know.

No, you're allowed to say that. You're white. Yeah. But I mean, like, listen, I'll do like a video. I'm like, okay, like, it's not just listening. And then like, I get attacked by the white women. I'm like, what the fuck's happening? And I think it's probably because of that passion of them, like, just waking up and realizing.

But I also think there's another side to it, too, where I remember observing on Jenna Kutcher's platform, there was a lot of people who were going after her. And I noticed that there was a lot more white women. But I also think it was her following. Her following, they're very white. And so I think that it's just an interesting phenomenon. I feel like you had a question. The education.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Do I think? Do you agree? It's, it's your job, too. educate us. No. Do you agree it's not your job?

It's not my job. Yes. I do believe that it's on the on any black person's job. Yeah. I think it's on there's so many resources out there. There's so many incredible anti-racism educators who have been doing this work for a long time. And I think that that's also why there are many black people that are just fucking tired.

It's because we've been like we've been here. You know, we like generations of us have experienced, you know, generations of people who have, who have family members who were in the slave trade, right? Chateau slavery is real and it still affects us today. The effects of it is just, it's just heartbreaking. So I think that white people have the opportunity, the resource, the wherewithal to be able to do their own research. Look up anti-racism educators and start from there. There are so many amazing black businesses you can invest in. It's always been there.

So we're not here to spoon feed you. If I choose to educate, that's because I want to. But it's not because I have to. So I think that that's something that's going to be important for your listeners to know. When we were talking, I was thinking just about education. One time I got interested in salt because my dad told me that at one point it was worth more than gold. And I was like, what the fuck?

Salt. And like, I didn't, like, this sounds really stupid and off topic. But, you know, I went on to this soul searching mission to like learn about salt and read all these history books about it. And I think that like in anyone in any field in any area, if you want to learn something, it's your responsibility to put it upon yourself to go and do the research and learn. Agree. And in any aspect. And I think this attitude of like, okay, like I'll learn like, but I'm going to put the burden on someone else to teach me. It's like, no asshole. Like you go figure it out. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, go figure it out. Yeah. And you'll be fine. And I think that

this is something else too. I was talking to my friend the other day. I was like, I also think that it's very strange that a lot of white people are not used to being called out on stuff and being corrected and being wrong. And also let's even go further with this. And taking accountability. Oh, taking accountability is a good one. I'm going to take myself out an outside perspective.

A lot of influencers aren't used to being called out either. Not used to being saying, oh my God, your eyebrows are so great. Your skin's so dewy. I think when we were going through that week. Specifically, I'm using that week. For sure. I was like, this is an opportunity for me and all the influencers out there to exercise a muscle that isn't used enough. Yeah, there we go.

What do you think about that? Oh, I think that that it's so, I think being able to use your platform in a way that amplifies black voice. is always the vibe. But I just don't think it's happened enough. Right. Like I don't, I follow a lot of black influencers and I follow a lot of white influencers. I don't see amplification of black voices happening on those platforms. I agree with you. I just don't see it. I agree with you. I think, I think collectively, everyone can do better. Yeah. I'm sick of saying do better. I get it. Yeah. I wish What else can you say? Yeah. It's just the most layman's terms to say. Yeah. So if someone's out there and they're listening and you and they're a friend. Let's say they're a friend of yours.

I'm not saying it's your job to educate them, but is there a direction that you could point them in? In terms of how to get started? Yeah. And maybe it's Google. I don't know. You might say Google. Google is, Dr. Googles is always good, but I think I know an account that has been just amazing for me to follow. Rachel Cargall. She's an anti-racism educator. Layla Syed. I think me and white supremacy, I believe that's the name of the book. That's a really good book. I would recommend also reading and doing research from the black perspective. There's a lot of anti-racism work that has been done by white people, but I think it's really important to listen to the actual voices. It's not that they didn't have good things to say because they do. There's one that got really, that did really well on the bestsellers list, the New York Times. I believe it's called White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo. And that's one that I think, I don't think it's bad to read it. I think it had amazing points. And I think it's...

I've seen some controversy on the black community. I've seen some black women really like it. Some don't and some don't because they're like, what are you doing with that income that you're getting from that book? Like are you investing it back into the black community or are you using it to profit your pockets that contributes to, you know, systemic racism and dismantling white supremacy? What are you doing with the profits? So I think that's where there's a lot of distrust, where it's like, are you profiting

off of our pain? in our trauma, and that's not your intention, but does that end up being the impact? I haven't been worrying about like the bottom line of the company or the listeners of this show. I've been staying up at night, not even thinking about our child as much, worrying about the exact DNA of our dogs. Yep, that's true. We are so excited because we got to do a test that tests our dogs DNA. Who doesn't want to test their dog's DNA?

You may be sitting there thinking like, why the hell do I care about my dog's DNA? And let me tell you why. All of us, you know, if you think about all of us as humans, we're all different. We're all made up different. We all have different genetics. We're human beings that we all are different makeups and we have to figure out what works right for our bodies. But when it comes to our dogs, nobody spends any time thinking like what is right for my dog's DNA makeup. How do I care for them properly?

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will thank you. Well, I want to get your thoughts on a few things. Because you're somebody obviously that you coach people. Yeah. And you have a bit just online. Like we all are all online. Yep. And I think there's a like here's what my, what I've thought about a lot. I think there's a time for reaction. Yes. There's a time for for thoughtful planning. I agree. And so obviously with the death we saw George Floyd, like that was a good time for reaction. Yeah. Like what we saw the country react to and how people took to the streets and how they like, that was appropriate reaction to get a conversation started. Where I was disappointed on some level with the online community is they carried that reaction through with more reaction, reaction, reaction, and not thoughtfulness about

what they were putting out, what type of content, how they were framing the conversation, how they're framing. And like the reason it's taken some time, like, Lauren and I address it briefly. Yeah. And the reason it took time to start having these conversations is we wanted to be very thoughtful about the presentation that a platform of this size presents to the world. Absolutely. And I wish more content creators or brands or people in the space would say, okay, don't worry about your short term bottom dollar revenue. You're front facing that right now. Say your piece quickly.

But then like really be thoughtful about the way you start a narrative or change a conversation or get people involved. I have a real problem with people that are just like constantly reactionary. Yes. And I don't think it's, I think the intention's not necessarily wrong, but I also don't think the intention's right. I think there's a little bit of like better save my ass, better also get in. that are also, like, it's a little bit of interest.

And I wanted to kind of get your take on that as you coach people. I do. I think, yeah, I think that I really like the concept of saying something, but then I think to continue to educate yourself before you say further. Like you're going to fuck up. That's the one thing I think white people need to know is like on this journey of to being an anti-racist, you are going to fuck up. Sometimes big time.

So I was a part of a Facebook group and they really fucked it up. because there was someone that was a part of the group that was asked by the group leaders, the podcast hosts. They were asked to speak on, I believe, to educate their audience on the effects of racism, I believe. So it was a listener, but she was also acquaintances as well of the podcast hosts. And so the podcast host requested this of a black woman to. to educate their primarily white audience on racism.

And then the white women asked to be compensated for having... No, the black woman has to be compensated for educating the white audience. Sorry, yes. And so the podcast host said, no, we don't do that. And we want to be thoughtful as to who we work with in that way. That wasn't a part of the initial agreement was you get you to get paid. So let's just call it good. And so the black woman posted the emails on IG and was basically like, this is fucked up.

This is fucked up. You want me to educate your audience on racism. And when I asked to be compensated for my emotional labor, you tell me no. Okay, what are some other. And she had suggested to the podcast host, what are some other ways? So that's okay that you don't like anything, anything. She was like, what about in kind? What about just anything?

And they said no. What is in kind? Trade or like, you know, like, probably, you know, whatever. Yeah, like, I don't know. Donating the ad that you had in the podcast. Something like that. Yeah. And they still said no.

So I thought that that was problematic because it's like if you want to hire black people to educate your audience in any capacity, whether it's podcast or whatever, they deserve to be compensated. I didn't ask for compensation from this because I'm not an anti-racism educator. But there are people who are being asked, influencers, people with platforms that are being ask to educate why audiences and it's just it's not okay you know I think like this is like you know I was talking to my team and I was like people are so fucking weird I'm like people like like can't just be normal like I think the problem comes down to with like and it comes down to

the ask in the beginning like the audacity that you ask somebody come on to this platform and educate my people like that is the wrong way yeah right that's not the right way to go exactly I mean I would be irritated as anybody to come on someone if someone approached me like Michael come on this thing and educate I be like what you talking about yeah Yeah, exactly. So I think it's, I get where you're coming from, I get where they're, but it's, it's, it's the way that people go about things to begin with. Agree. Agree. Agree.

Fucking weird. Exactly. So there's a lot of that happening and it's just, it's unfortunate. There's a lot of people listening with kids. Mm-hmm. I just had a baby. Yeah. And again, I don't want to ask you what I should do.

I want you to say what a good direction is. Is Google a good direction? Honestly. Or like, where do I go with this? I want to raise someone who's a compassionate, open-minded, non-judgmental, accepting person. Well, the beautiful thing about children is racism is learned. It is not, you are not born racist, right? Like, you could look at a pure two, three-year-old child.

They don't have a racist bone in their body. They learn it from the behaviors of the people that are around the parents, the environments they're in. Which is why I think these conversations are so important. Yeah. Because, you know, essentially the difference of our skin care is a pigment. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, if you don't tell children like, hey, there's something wrong or different about that picnic, they don't learn it. Right.

So we're teaching people. So the better thing to do as a parent is to understand, like, you lead by example, you are the person potentially teaching your own chalby racist. And if you catch them around environments that are exhibiting that, like you need to correct it. Yeah. And I also think, too, for especially I'll speak to, I'll speak to white mothers. I think it's important also to recognize the privilege and not have. having to teach your children that it's the shitty world out there for black people and black children. Black children are often adultified very, very much so. Timir Rice is a really good example.

He was murdered, I think, just playing in the park. And he was killed by police. And so I also think that kids can handle hearing tough things. It's all about the way in which you communicate it. Because I also think that's a lot of what's happening now is that how come I was taught from a really young age from my West African family that you'll always have to work harder than your white counterparts. It's the way that the system is set up. I think that white kids also need to know that this is the reality for many black and brown bodies in the U.S. And they are not, their innocence isn't going to be taken away from them. That's the biggest, I think that's like the biggest misconception when it comes to parents teaching their children. And I'm also a mental health

therapist. So I've done, I've had clients who are stay at home moms. And I mean, I love, I love my mothers that I've worked with. But I do think that that's a misconception. is that you talking about some of these topics, you can water it down so that they understand and that they're not traumatized walking away from the conversation. But they need to know. They need to know that this is not okay. This behavior is not okay. Not saying that you don't see color is not okay.

Right? Did you hear that? There we go. That's a good one. That's something you and I need to learn. Listen, my follow-up question to you was going to be, as you've heard us, talk, number of us, like, where are we wrong? Oh, that's a good question. This is good.

Do you know why? Because this is, to me, this is the conversation that is happening. Just say Michael's all wrong. No, but really like, you know, because I'll say something like I don't see color. And if that's wrong. I didn't hear you say that in this conversation. He did. Oh.

He did. I'm so, I think I'm just so used to hearing. I'll say in my own life, I have not seen color or race or create or sexual. That's okay. That's okay. I want to know where we're wrong. Go. Yeah.

I would say that's probably the number one. thing is to see it, to see it, to honor it, to respect it, and to it, yeah, because I think, I think also, I mean, you can, what is it? Is it Pride Month? I think that there's also, I mean, let's talk about, you know, black trans lives matter, right? And so just because I don't judge people based off of their, you know, their gender, sexual orientation, et cetera, et cetera, doesn't mean that I don't need to make it very, very paramount and important in my life to make sure that they know that they're important and that I don't understand, but that I stand with them, you know, I think that there's a difference. We have to see it in order to acknowledge it into order to call it out. And so even when we're talking about, you know, white privilege, it doesn't mean that white people have never struggled or that you don't have, you know, that you haven't worked hard for everything you've gotten. That was what my husband was really triggered by is he's like, yeah, I'm a doctor, but like, Like I had to bust my ass to be here. No one's debating that.

That's true. But there's built-in advantages in the system that you are not aware of and that you're kind of been blind to where you're continuing to perpetuate these beliefs and these, you know, behaviors because of what is already like the system was built for you. Yep. There was one time I cried running dear media. I don't even know if you know this. It might make me tear up a little bit here too. Honestly, it might make me tear up. I have some black women that worked for me here.

Okay. You saw something out there. And when this first happened, it was the first time I had to acknowledge and like, you know, and we did a team meeting. I was like, we're going to be fucking better. We could like, yeah, yeah. She was on the meeting. And she blacked her screen. And I know, like, some of the things I'm saying here is upsetting because we have a lot of white people.

We have some black people. But she was definitely like minor in the group. And I realized at the time, I'm like, you know, I'm saying things here and it's probably upsetting to her. It's upsetting week. And I called the phone and she was crying. And we cried together. And I almost crying now. Yeah.

But it was the first time I had to face realistically. Like, this is the. experience that's something close to me that's worked with me for years as face. And I just didn't see it. Yeah. I was blind to it. And I felt terrible because it's not that I was trying to not see it. I just didn't see it. Right. And when it hit me in the face like that, I almost hit you know, we see it on the snow. Yeah. It pulled my fucking guts out of my stomach because I'm like, this is a real experience that people. Yeah. You and Topsie want to go to another room to have a life coaching session? No, but no, but you know, but it got deep real quick.

No, but it gets deep for me because what it pointed out to me, and like, I don't talk, this is the first time I've actually talked about it was that, holy shit, I've been so blind to this, this part of the world. For sure. This experience that someone else could go through and me just thinking that I'm not part of it and not contributing to people's pain. Yep. It was just like a wrong assumption.

Yeah. And so like I think that like when I choose to think that people are optimistic, like I'm like eternal optimist. I choose like something like this that this experience in this country is going. gone through. Yeah. It's like, this is such, this is the first time on such a huge scale that people are, yeah.

And people like myself are opening their eyes and be like, wow, this is for sure. This is a, this is experience that people in this country, black women, black men have experienced. And like, there's no way you can not see it anymore. Right. You can't, you can't just like not see it. And it's emotional because like, and this is like where like I think when you talk about white people and being frustrated, I wrote the book.

But it's okay now to be like, yeah. This needs to fully be acknowledged. Yeah. And we need to recognize it. And it's going to be. painful. Yeah. But we're going to experience that pain in a sharp, quick, like, in people of color in this country, black, white, black, brown, you know, they've experienced for a very long time. So, like, a little bit of short-term pain to get, for sure. It's okay. Yeah. White people got to

toughen up and say, like, okay, we're going to, we're going to listen for a little bit. Yeah, and you'll be good. You'll be good. I want to know how you are being an example with your community, and then I really want to get into what you do because it's so interesting. I want to know, like, how you personally, Topsy are taking everything that's going on and being a good example for your, you have a big community. I do. I do. And they are loyal. They are very loyal. So I think what I've been doing is I have a lot of white people in my community. And that's been very interesting. But actually, I've gotten really barely any hate DMs, nothing like that because they already know not to come in my inbox with that bullshit. So you will get fucking blocked. You might get blasted. I don't care. If you're bold enough to send me

some stupid shit in the DMs. You're bold enough to, you know. That kind of girl. That's what I do the same thing. I'm like, block it the fuck. I'm the worst. I have like no tolerance for it. But I just really have taken it, especially those two weeks, I really took it upon myself to just educate because they were hungry. They wanted to know. And I'm like, I have the bandwidth. I have the boundaries within myself to know when, you know, when to say something, when to just rest. It's not my responsibility. But I want to. And I just educated a lot on my platform about the wealth gap in the U.S. between whites and blacks and just gave them actual statistics, redlining, mortgage loan, you know, like all of the

systemic versus systematic racism that goes on and what's the difference between the two. And I really infuse that into my content. And then, of course, I let them know, like, this is not, don't just follow me to get educated. Like, this is a bonus. This is not what my platform is built on. Like I actually, I'm a mindset coach. This is what I do. But I also realize that I have a lot of white people in my following that they have never hired a black coach.

A lot of people had just have never, I've gotten passed over for white coaches all the time who charged more than me. But it was, it's very interesting. But that's how racism happens. It's like the subconscious bias. They don't even realize that that's what they're doing is they're intentionally or unintentionally not hiring, you know, black people, black entrepreneurs. It's bizarre, but that's just what my reality was. And so educating a lot has been something that I've been infusing into my content, especially for educating CEOs and just helping them understand how to navigate as much as possible

from like as far as mindset shifts, like how to look at owning your shit when you fuck up, you know, how to look at what's coming up for you emotionally because that's my specialty is talking about emotions. And I understand that it's got to be tough. of running a company and trying to do the right thing, trying to make all these calls. But at the same time, here's some insight for you. Here's how to address being called out. Here's how to address, you know, shit happening in your company and you didn't realize it. And how do you continue to repair those relationships that you've damaged with your white privilege

and not realizing, you know, the importance of dismantling white supremacy? So let's talk about your platform and what you do. You obviously are, I mean, you're very, very educated in the life coach situation. And you said you worked in mental health. Yeah. I was a mental health therapist. Okay. So we didn't get to get that story.

That's okay. Can you walk us through that? You spent too much time listening to me cry. Yeah. Yeah. She is. Oh my God. Oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. So I have been a clinical mental health therapist for nine years. I have my master's in social work. So my goal was to help people on a clinical level. one-on-one therapy. That was my goal. And so I did that. And I have my own private practice on the west side of Michigan that I'm actually closing down this month because my coaching business blew the fuck up. I've had my coaching business since 2017. I love therapy. That's what I do. That's my heart. That's my love. But I love helping entrepreneurs with just their mindset shifts.

And so I noticed that there was this gap in people who came to me for therapy, who actually needed therapy, but there were a lot of people that they needed help with things that were not clinical. They didn't have a clinical depression. Can you give an example? Yeah, yeah. I used to have a lot of business owners contact me wanting to know whether or not I could just help them with some of their confidence issues in business and just like self-esteem stuff. And it was stuff that, yeah, I could have, you know, build for it and build the insurance company for it and it would have been fine. But they weren't clinical issues. So clinical issues are things that areas of your life have to be severely affected.

And so in order to bill insurance companies. And so these people were just struggling with self-esteem. They didn't have depression. They didn't have anxiety. It was just more so situational stuff that would come up in business. And they were like, how in the hell? Like I have no idea what to do with these fluctuating numbers in my business. Like, you know, like one month I'm making this.

The next month I'm making that. I want to make sure that I'm always making the same amount of money. So then there was that comparison piece that comes in, comparing themselves to other business owners who were doing the same thing. And they were all dealing with a lot of shit that I'm like, I, this isn't like a therapy. This is coaching. This is something completely different. This is goal-oriented coaching.

Like they just want to like, how do I move forward? How do I move forward? And so I decided to use some of my clinical therapy skills, psych-based, evidence-based skills. And I incorporated that into my coaching business. And so they're two separate businesses completely. And I just love the coaching industry. I think it's just one of the fastest growing industries on. line. And I help six and seven figure female entrepreneurs just address and identify.

Yeah, for the most part. But there have been some men that are like, I would love to work with you. And I will work with men. I do enjoy working with men. But women are my shit. Let's say Kristen in Louisiana has a mental block towards doing something entrepreneurial. Yeah. What advice are you giving her? Ooh, mental blocks. So I would talk to her about what, I mean, what is it that you're afraid of? Maybe she doesn't have the confidence to put herself out there and actually execute. So I would look at what exactly is coming up for you that makes you feel like you can't do it? Where's the evidence for it?

Maybe she feels that she has fear towards putting herself out there in front of her peers. And she only has 100 followers. And she feels like it's not worth it. There's a lot of young people. Let's say like college graduates, listen to this show. Give some mindset. This is good. They have ideas.

They want to launch. But they don't because they're fearful of either rejection or failure. They're like, they can't get past the wall. Okay. Getting out there. And one of the things that I, that Lauren and I have tried to talk about is like launch fast and adjust, like throw it out there. Agree. Get it out there.

But there's this block where people, you know, they wait for the right time. And then what happens is that time never comes. The time never comes. Yeah. So I think, number one, I would agree that I love doing like the mindset work plus action at the same time. I don't really believe in the whole like think about it, think about it, think about it, because you could think yourself to death. So I think that something that's important is to really identify what exactly is it

that's what exactly is it is causing you to believe that you can't, you can't create the life that you want. What's getting in your way? Is it the fear that you're not going to make money? Well, that's a fallacy because I was monetizing my account long before I ever had 3,000 followers. I've been making bank online since I've had like, you know, 300. So let's just, so let's debunk that myth. So I think so a lot of it is myths. What are you buying into that's causing for you to believe that what you have to say isn't worthy of getting out there. And what they're going to find is a lot of people. So this is why I love coaching is because I really look at evidence. Where's the evidence for what it is that you're feeling? We operate off of feelings so much, but feelings aren't facts.

So just because you feel like the market saturated, just because you feel like you're not going to make money and you have 200 followers, so why bother? It doesn't make that true. So how can you look to find the evidence of it not being true? Sometimes it might mean going on your stories and saying, hey, do any entrepreneurs follow me that, you know, have less than 500 followers and they are making money? Or what about going to stalk certain hashtags and finding entrepreneurs who have smaller followings who are making money off of their platform? That's happening. But I think sometimes we allow our feelings to determine what it is we do. And that's like my whole mission is that feelings can't rule the decisions that we make. We have to think from logic, you know,

strategy, et cetera. What is the common denominator that you see across the board? of where people are going wrong. Ooh. Or where people are coming to you for coaching and you just see like this is so Oh my God. I think money is a, I think money is one of the biggest ones where especially with women.

Lack of money or fear of like what? Fear of not being able to continue the success that they've had with their business or with their company. Like I've worked with so many CEOs that have scaled, you know, to millions of dollars and they still have those fears of like, what if my business can't sustain this? What if this is it for me? What if this was a fluke? What if people find out in the next two months that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing

and my whole business crashes? I mean, it's just like these problems that we make up in our head when we've had so much success and you're just hoping you just continue it. And that's the number one thing I see is that there's so many CEOs that have made lots of money and they don't believe that they can sustain it. And it breaks my heart. What's the common denominator with success? You obviously work with very powerful women. What do you see that's very similar? I would say, so with success, I would say that there's a trait you see in these women that like, I would say that the trait I see is a lot of imposter syndrome.

A lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of fear that they can't continue the, you know, the role that they're on with outsourcing and hiring team members. and employees. They fear that they don't know what they're doing. That's the biggest one. Like, I'm just figuring it out day to day. What about with success? Is there one that's an opposite of that?

Yeah. But that's what she's saying? People that are successful. Like, listen, I have imposterous. I tell people. Oh, you're saying that people are successful. I'm saying, I get what you guys are saying. I'm saying, is there like a tip that they do?

Like, they all wake up early. Oh, okay. I get what you're saying. Consistency. Consistency. I would say this consistency is what I've seen. create success. Yeah, is like just being consistent in whatever it is that you do, even if you're not getting. See, I like to tell my clients, like, you know, especially the ones who were, I mean,

I don't work with so many now who are just starting, but when I used to work with newbies, it was pretty much like what you do with the few people that enter your programs is what you'll do with the many. So if you're not grateful for those two clients that you've had to be quite honest, I mean, I just had like a crazy successful launch. I created this program called Destroy the Mindset Drama and is teaching online coaches how to implement evidence-based mindset strategies into their programs. Because part of business coaching is dealing with the mindset. But there's so many business coaches that just really don't want to touch it. They just, they're all strategy. They're like, just do the work. So basically using like psych principles, like what I've built my whole career on

and using some of that inside of coaching when you're coaching people through their mindset issues. It's all of everything I do is based in science. Everything I do is based in psych. So that's smart. So you're saying that most, entrepreneurial coaches they are using just strategy strategy strategy. They don't want to acknowledge. Yes. It sounds like you're breathing feminine energy to it too. Yes, because I do think that there's a, and I mean, I think masculine energy is incredible,

but I do think there's a lot of that when it comes to business stuff. And it's like, just go do it. Like I know, like you are following the path that you saw me going on. And that's why you hired me, right, as your business coach. So just go do what I said. And it's like, yeah, well, it's not quite that simple sometimes. You need to talk them through their mindset shit. You need to get right with yourself.

You got to get right. You got to believe that it's even possible. There's audience members out there that are listening and there's some kind of homework that they can do at home. Any tips? Any tactics? Okay. So any tactics for listeners who want to launch a business, start a blog? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. We're going to have to do another fucking podcast. No, this is really good. I would say first, I would say, first, I would say, first of all, like, who is it that you want to serve? Like, who do you want to serve? Because if you don't know who you're talking to, then, I mean, what are we doing here? So who do you want to serve? What are you passionate about? What do you know your people want to learn? What do you know that people want to learn? I don't do like market research really anymore because I know my shit.

I know what people need. Even if they don't realize it quite yet, I'm going to help you, I'm help bring it to the awareness that this is a problem that you're having. So I would say, if they're wanting to start, who is it that you want to serve? Why do you want to serve them? So what's your why? What's your biggest underlying reason? And then really identify like what are some of the mindset blocks that you know are going to get in your way of accomplishing that goal? Because oftentimes it's not the strategy that's the problem. It's getting in our own heads of can I actually do it, right? Identifying like what are the automatic thoughts that are coming up for you? Do you actually believe that this is possible? You're very confident, which I appreciate so much.

Thank you. You're confident, too. Thank you. Do you have any things that you do, daily practices, morning rituals, nighttime routines that you do to work your confidence muscle? Skin care. That's literally, and I talk to myself in the mirror. Like, I tell myself I'm a bad bitch. I like, listen, you got beautiful skin, but I was not expecting that answer. I was like, I was not expecting that answer.

I know you appreciated that. You know I love skin care. Oh, I know you do. I use my, what is it, the roller? I can't think of it. Jade. Jade roller. I love to use my Jade roller. I love to listen to affirmations on my Spotify. That's like my shit. That's like honestly my, as I talk to myself in a kind way, oftentimes we're looking for validation from everyone else. You're not going to fucking get that. You're not going to fucking get that. So you need to speak life into yourself, into what it is that you want to get accomplished for the day into how amazing it is that you get to serve three people in your programs or in your services or whatever. and you need to speak life into yourself and into your business because that's what's going to sustain it. Your internal self-talk.

Huge. Topsy, I'm really happy we've got to do this conversation. I'm really happy we've got to have it. Thank you so much for coming on and reaching out. I mean, like this was fun. This was incredible. Before you go, pimp out your whole coaching courses. Tell us what they're going to get.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a course called Slayer Imposter Monster. So that's teaching. I coined the term Slayer Imposter Monster is copyrighted. But is teaching online entrepreneurs, especially new ones, it's an introductory course teaching online entrepreneurs how to identify and defeat their imposter syndrome that shows up. And so I walk them to tangible action steps of how to do that. I have a course called Escape the Escape the Thought Spiral. And it's teaching online entrepreneurs, but entrepreneurs in general,

female entrepreneurs, but anyone can buy it, how to identify and overcome the toxic negative thought patterns that happen in entrepreneurship. So it's very, very, very, very, specific to online entrepreneurs, but any entrepreneur can identify with it. And then I created a program called Destroy the Mindset Drama. That's like, that's going to be probably my signature program and is teaching online coaches how to implement evidence-based mindset strategies into their businesses. So, yeah. And shout out a black owned business that you fucking love. Like the lip bar. The lip bar, Melissa Butler out of Detroit, that brand is the shit. Do you know flavor or do I need to go on and look? You might have to go on and look.

It's called the lip bar. The lip bar. She's incredible. Yeah. That brand is incredible. And where can everyone follow you on Instagram? You're a great follow. You have an incredible Instagram story.

I spent like an hour. I spent an hour looking through your Instagram stories. You got your shit. Like dialed in. Thank you. I do. Yeah. I do.

You can find me on Instagram at Topsy Van and Bash. Come back anytime you're out here. Oh my God. This was so much fun. Thank you guys for having me. Yeah, have fun in Palm Springs. And next time you come on, we need to do like maybe we'll actually get a reader on so you can coach the reader. That could be good. We've got to bring in,

we got to bring Collins back on. Maybe we actually bring a skinny confidential reader. That would be so dope. On like an actually coacher. That would be so dope. I'd be down. And maybe we'll do a giveaway for one of your e-books. I'll talk to you off there. Yeah, absolutely. I promise I won't cry again. It's all good. I love vulnerability. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Follow you on Instagram at Topsy. The Topsy Van and Bosch. The Topsy Van and Bosch. Thanks, guys. And guys, don't go yet. Topsy has offered to give away her course. It's called Slay Your Imposter Monster and it's $97. She is going to give it away to one aspiring entrepreneur. All you have to do to win is leave your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram and follow Topsy on Instagram. It's T-O-P-S-I-E-V-A-N-D-E-N-B-O-S-C-H. You guys won't be sorry. She's an amazing follow and get excited for next week because we have this.

the one and only, Dr. Jason Diamond. He is a major plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills coming on the podcast. With that, we'll see you on Tuesday. This episode was brought to you by Embark. This summer, EmbarkVeck has a limited time offer just for our listeners. Go to Embarkvett.com now and use promo code skinny to get $50 off your dog breed and health kit. So visit Embarkvett.com and use promo code skinny to get $50 off today.

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