The Bossticks - Jamie Kern Lima On How To Develop Self Worth, Believe You Are Enough, & Transform Your Life

Episode Date: February 21, 2024

#663: Jamie Kern Lima is not only one of Forbes' richest self-made women but also the author of the upcoming book 'WORTHY: How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life,' New York Times bestselling author of 'Believe IT,' guest teacher of the 'Life You Want' class live with Oprah Winfrey, and Founder of IT Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and grew to be the largest luxury makeup brand in the country. Today, we sit down for a conversation about self-worth and how to redefine the way you believe in yourself. She discusses how she was on the brink of bankruptcy before she got her first 'yes' with IT Cosmetics, how she had to rewire her own brain into finally believing in herself, and she gives us exercises on how to grow your self-worth and meet your own potential.   To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with Jamie Kern Lima click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Nutrafol Nutrafol is the #1 dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, clinically shown to improve your hair growth, thickness, and visible scalp coverage. Go to nutrafol.com and use code SKINNYHAIR to save $10 off your first month's subscription, plus free shipping. This episode is brought to you by The Squeeze Juice   Use code SKINNY for 20% off when you shop at The Squeezed Juice   This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated organic formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Receive 15% off your purchase with code SKINNY at cymbiotika.com This episode is brought to you by MWH As Melissa says herself, "Don't trust me, try me." Visit melissawoodhealth.com and use code SKINNY at checkout to get your first month free off your monthly membership. Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

If we have low self-worth, and this is for everybody listening, if we have low self-worth, it often looks like we're stuck. Like, we're stuck. meaning, oh, we have a crazy amazing business idea or we have a book we want to write or we have, you know, we don't want to be alone and we want to be in a relationship, but we literally are stuck and we don't know why. We don't get on the dating app. We don't submit the manuscript or even start writing it.

We don't register the domain for our business. And a lot of people think like, oh, I'm stuck because I just need to get more experience or more skill sets. It's like, no, actually underneath it all, you don't believe you're worthy of the thing. I mean, you don't believe you're worthy of it. Like your self-worth will become yourself. ceiling. Hello everybody. Happy Monday. Welcome back to The Him and Her show. Today we have an incredible episode with an incredible woman, an incredible founder, entrepreneur, and author Jamie Kern-Lima,

who is the founder of It Cosmetics. I'm sure many of you know about It Cosmetics. For those of you that are not familiar with It Cosmetics and Jamie, she became one of the first females in history to build a billion-dollar brand and sell it to L'Oreal, which landed her on the Forbes America's richest self-made at Women's List, an extremely incredible accomplishment. And in this episode, she talks all about her new book, Worthy, how to believe you are enough in transform your life. She discussed her journey as a Denny's waitress all the way to a self-made billionaire and what you can do to start feeling worthy yourself.

It's an incredible episode, ton of tangible takeaways. With that, Jamie Kernelimo, welcome to Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. From a Denny's waitress to America's richest self-made woman. Damn. I love me some Moons Over-Hammy, though. Let me tell you about Moons Over-Hammy. Have you read Moons Over-Hammy?

Yeah, of course. It's such a good one on the Denny's venue. Yeah, the Denny's right down in Salonah Beach when we were growing up. It's so good. Denny's waitress. How old are you when you were Denny's waitress? Yeah, in my 20s. Yeah, in my 20s.

It's funny. We were just talking about Oprah a second ago. I celebrated interviewing her last week by going to Denny's. By going to Denny's. I did not have moons over Miami, but it was really good. I had coffee. They have sweet cream coffee now. They did not have that when I was a waitress.

So I had that and just kind of sat there. I just needed to get grounded. I feel like, what is happening? And how do I make sure I feel worthy of this? And yeah, yeah, it was a moment. So it's so good to be here, by the way. Hi. Hi.

Hi. Thank you for having me. That you chose to come on here. I mean, I know you had probably a lot of different choices. So thank you. So grateful to be here. First time, too. First time.

I think I've harassed you since 2019 if you look back in your DMs. Thank you. I'm wearing your at Cosmetics Foundation. I wear it all the time. I've worn it for years and years. It is the best of the best of the best for coverage. There's nothing like it. You wrote a book called Worthy.

Are you at Denny's feeling worthy or what are you feeling like? Yeah, that's the thing. I wrote Worthy because, first of all, our self-worths are sealing, right? So many of us, like, we think, oh, I didn't need more skill set. I need to work harder and all those things are important, but our self-worths are sealing. I didn't know that for a long time. And what I know now, like, you want to double your business, double your self-worth. You want to double your success, double your self-worth. And for a long time, I didn't realize that really in life, like we don't necessarily rise to what we believe is possible.

We fall to what we believe we're worthy of. And so when I was in my days, waitressing tables, at Denny's, I literally remember moments where I'd look around and think, like, I could run this, have those kind of thoughts, but then my self-doubt would get really, really, really loud. And so, you know, a lot of people maybe Google my story and they see like, oh, you know, Denny's waitress builds a billion-dollar company, but my real story is like, and that happened, yes, and I'm so proud of it and learned so many tactical tools and takeaways. I'm so happy to share and dive into. But my real journey, I'm more proud of than that, is like going from someone who, a girl who

really didn't believe in myself most of my life to learning how to believe in myself and learning how to believe I'm worthy, you know, of the hopes and dreams I have. And I think that's the biggest thing, like for anyone listening is so important that we know what we want and why we want it and then take action and do all the things. But at the end of the day, like we don't become what we want. we become what we believe we're worthy of. And that's in life, in our business, and our goals, and our dreams. So when we raise our self-worth, we change everything.

Because if we don't, like, we literally, so many people sabotage things, stay stuck or doubt themselves out of their own destiny. Because our self-doubt gets so loud. So maybe before we go further, maybe talking about before Denny's, what was your childhood like? And maybe why did you not feel worthy? Yeah, I think, well, you know what's wild is you look at the data. right now. So like as the three of us are talking, 80% of women don't believe there enough. And 73% of men feel inadequate and not enough. And it's wild because we're so good at hide. A lot of people are really, really good at hiding it. It's funny. I was just talking with Ed Milet,

who loves the two of you, who was so excited for me to come on this show because he loves both of you. And he was saying right now, despite in his life having private jets, huge companies with success, all the things going on externally, which brings him a lot of confidence, he still struggles to believe he's enough. And it's sort of this lifelong journey because when we don't underneath it all believe we're enough, we can achieve everything and build all this self-confidence. And a lot of people think, well, if I feel like I'm enough as I am, will I lose my edge? Will I stop? Like, you know, will I become less ambitious? And it's actually the opposite. Like when you feel super, super enough, like strong self-worth as you are, you actually

become more fearless because you know, okay, if I fall, if I fall, if I fall, if I fall, if I fall, if I fail, if I have setbacks, like it might shake my self-confidence a little bit, which is largely based on the external, but like I'm unshakable inside, and it helps you become more fearless. And so growing up, I think, you know, what I will say, so in Worthy, there's like, I covered 20 different tools on how to build unshakeable self-worth, and a lot of them are lies that so many of us need to unlearn. And one of the lies, which I think comes from my childhood to answer your question, I grew up believing that achievement equaled love or that I needed to achieve to be enough and sort of like confusing achievement with love. Do that come from your parents

or do that come from a teacher? Like, where do you think that comes from? Yeah, I think so two things. I think universally, so many of us are raised even just seeing like advertisements and this Matt and they're great, but or well-intended people in our lives that are like, all they ask about is your job or your, you know, how's your job going? How's your work going? Are you married yet? Do you have kids? And we start to learn that if we get good answers to those things, then we've got their sample of approval. Like, then we're enough. And so that's there. And then a lot of us work so hard to finally get these big goals that we think will make us feel enough. And we arrive at them and still feel like something's missing and still feel like, you know, so then we just keep hustling

harder and it becomes this never-ending perpetual thing, which is what Ed and I both experienced for decades of our life, where we keep achieving the next level and the next level and the next level and to give you like a real tangible example, because for everyone listening to us right now, if they're like, oh, I'm super confident, I'm super successful, I kind of feel like I'm not enough or it's not enough, but I think I just got to work harder. It's actually a self-worth issue because a lot of people will give up on marriages. They think something's missing in their marriage when really they don't feel enough as who they are. A hundred percent go off on that. I totally agree with that. It's such a thing. Yeah, they want someone else to fill up their cup,

but what you've got to realize is an inside job. You've got to fill up your own cup. Exactly. Exactly. And so the number of marriages that end or the number of people that think, oh, I just need to quit my job and go to another one or this or that. I don't have the fulfillment I need. And they think that exactly that the enoughness needs to come from the outside. And that's a lot of the enoughness needs to come from the outside, and that's a self-worth thing. So three ways, like for anyone listening, like, if they're like, wait a minute, is a self, you know, do I need worthy? Like, do I feel enough? Is this really a thing? Because I think I'm crushing it on the outside, the ways, the three main ways that, like, self-worth become big issues in our life. If we have low self-worth, and this is for everybody

listening, we have low self-worth that often looks like we're stuck. Like, we're stuck, meaning, oh, we have a crazy, amazing business idea, or we have a book. we want to write or we have, you know, we don't want to be alone and we want to be in a relationship, but we literally are stuck and we don't know why. We don't get on the dating app. We don't submit the manuscript or even start writing it. We don't register the domain for our business. And a lot of people think like, oh, I'm stuck because I just need to get more experience or more skill sets. It's like, no, actually underneath it all, you don't believe you're worthy of the thing. I mean, you don't believe you're worthy of it. Like your self-worth will become your ceiling.

When we have low to medium self-worth, which a lot of people do, this is me most of my life, even after selling my company. For over a billion dollars cash, I was very confident. I had high confidence. I was crushing it on the Forbes, all these things. I didn't know that self-confidence, which fluctuates based on external things, if we're winning or losing, our skill sets and abilities, is different than self-worth. Self-worth is like the deep internal knowing that you are enough and worthy,

exactly as you are. And that self-worth level is our ceiling. And so when we have low to medium self-worth, we can be, you know, crushing it and doing all these kind of things, but we still hit ceilings and we sabotage them. We'll sabotage opportunities. We'll write the whole manuscript, but then not submit it. We'll hit six figures in our business, but not seven figures, and we don't know why. We'll have, you know, really wild ideas to put like our talent and offerings out in the world, but we'll scroll Instagram for eight hours a day. We'll hit a ceiling and we'll sabotage. We'll meet an amazing potential partner and then we'll be like, I don't know why, but I just am not attracted to them and we put them in the friend zone. And it's because underneath

it all, we don't believe we're worthy of the thing, so we'll sabotage it. Do you think that this is all perpetuated from childhood? Because we've had, funny this week, we've had a lot of people come on here who are very successful that have said something that their mom or dad or teacher said to them that replays in their head. I'll give like an example. Someone came on and said that their father said you'll never amount to anything. Janice Dickinson. She's in her 60s now. And she still replays. You'll never amount to anything still to the stay. Is there something that you can pinpoint when you were a little girl that was playing in your head for you to sell your company for the amount you did and still not feel worthy? Yes. Okay. I would love if you guys have to.

have a few minutes to actually go through this exercise where everyone listening can actually do that in their head to know what it is for them. Because here's the thing, some of us have a parent that said something or we have someone in the school play yard that said it for Ed Milet, for example, I don't know why I keep bringing him up, but he's like our mutual friend. For him, it was in, he remembers the moment when he was like pro level in baseball and sabotaged it. Like we have these moments that become these like that take root in our identity. For a lot of people, they've had failures or rejections that instead of thinking I failed or was rejected, they let it take root and think I'm a failure, I'm a reject. We all have different moments. And while some of us, like the one you

share with Janice, we have a parental figure that said something for most of us, it's us telling ourselves the thing and believing it. You know, so like part of why I wrote worthy is to unlearn all the lies that lead to self-doubt and like ignite the truths that wake up worthiness. And one example that I'll share with you and then I'll take everyone through how to do it because they can listen to us live and be like, oh, wow, this is a thing in my own life. It was after I had sold my business my whole life. Like I sat there's a little girl watching Oprah and dreaming of one day meeting her. Like I was home alone a lot as a little girl and I would watch her interviews. And I was like, oh, and that was like my mentor from afar, my entire life. And, you know, after all the years of sort of like working hard to, you know, pay my my way through school and finally get into what I thought was my dream job, which was anchoring the news, and then I took a detour and launched at cosmetics. What a lot of people don't know is that was a wild story. It was years and years and years and years of rejections, like teetering on bankruptcy, like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rejections, and learning how to overcome those and not

quit and eventually turning that business into a billion-dollar company. And through all of that, I built a whole lot of self-confidence. I am in my 30s, about to turn 40s. and I meet Oprah for the first time, which is like my lifelong dream. Then she invites me to lunch. Did you know you were going to meet her? No, at an event backstage in her green room, it was a whole thing. And I thought at best it'll be like two seconds on a step and repeat wall. But it ended up being this sort of private when I'm a meeting.

It was just a couple minutes backstage at her event. After it, I wrote her an email. She invited me over for lunch. So I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a whole thing. So I go to her house. Now, now, for anyone, for any way, it is, for everyone listening, like, if you've ever been in a great place in your life, like, you're crushing it, all these things. That was me in that moment. I thought.

I didn't know there was a huge difference between being self-confident, but not having self-worth. And I learned it the hard way in this moment. This is really a defining moment for me. And I think a lot of people will connect with this, no matter what their circumstances are, because we've all sabotaged stuff and not known why. But I go to her house for lunch. And I'm like, but I'm really confident. You know, I'm crushing it. Like the Forbes list had just all these things.

And we have a three-hour lunch. And at the very end of it, she hands me her cell phone number. And she's like, you can call me anytime. Call me anytime. And I left there and I did not call her for four years. Like literally my lifelong, like didn't call her for four years. And in that four-year window, I told myself stories like, oh, I just need to think of the right thing to say.

Like, I'm just got to come with the right thing to say, then I'll call her. Or, oh, like, people probably want stuff from her. Like, I'm going to prove I don't need anything. I'm not going to call her. I told myself all these stories until one day I realized it hit me, like, out of the blue. Like, I'm not calling her because deep down inside, I don't believe I'm worthy of being her friend. And that was the day where I was like, oh, wow. And that was the moment where two things, like every one of us, our thoughts, which are in our head and tell us self-doubt all day long, are not who we are, but they're so loud.

Like our thoughts are so loud. And that's our head is where self-doubt lives. And our soul, our knowing, our truth, whether someone believes in God and praise and hears God that way or meditates and gets still or believes the universe has your back or all of those things, our soul is where. like we know the truth. And I remember that day, like, that moment of knowing that was a lie, like knowing I'm a kick-ass friend. Like, I am a ride or die, kick-ass friend. Like, Oprah or anyone else would be so lucky to be my friend. And I know that is the truth. And in that moment, I remember like, like, imagining myself turning down the volume on my thoughts or my self-doubt and, like, turning up the volume on that knowing that knows I am enough. And that was the day I picked up the

and called her. And that's also the day I became obsessed with studying self-worth and understanding like, oh, wow, if just like me in that day, so many of us can have a lot of self-confidence, we could have put in the reps, like all the things. But if underneath it all, we don't believe we're enough, we will still sabotage stuff, whether it is a relationship we don't think we're worthy of, whether it is our business going to the next level, whether it's a health and fitness school. It could, or having great friendships. It could be any of it. And so that's really for me probably the, the pivotal moment on how I realized, okay, in life, we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. What did you say to Oprah when you called her?

Okay. So the first time I called, she didn't answer. I'm like, four years and she didn't answer. I'm not a big answer phone or either. I'm not either. I'm totally not either. And then we've talked since. We ended up teaching a class this last year. And then, and then. And now she's, now she's on your podcast and you're on hers. When she heard this story, but did she say anything to you about it?

Was she like, why didn't you call? Yeah, she read, she understands it clear. She's so clear about it. And she, her big thing is exactly that.

Like she'll say, you can work so, so, so hard. You can even believe something's possible. But if you don't believe you're worthy of it,

she says it in the way of it will not come. It's interesting because I think that, that why she's so attractive as a human and you have the same exact quality is that she's so successful and such an amazing person, but she has talked about not feeling worthy too in her past. And you've sort of almost got to watch her go through that on the show. And I think it's so amazing that you who have had so many accomplishments come out and talk about this too. I think a lot of people are struggling

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Sometimes people listen to this show, I believe, because I've seen the messages, and they will have, we will have people like yourself, high performers, higher cheapers, come on. And it's almost like, well, easy for them to say, right? You know what I'm saying? And it's not that they discount the message. It's like, well, that doesn't apply to me because this person has experienced this level of success and it's so far out of the reach of most people. But they're just like, okay, well, that message is maybe not relevant.

But what you're saying here is like, this is applicable to anybody. It could be dating. It could be, you know, getting a job, writing a book, doing a pod, anything at any level. Exactly. Believing you're worthy of a healthy friendship. Believing you're worthy of a healthy relationship. Whatever your goals and dreams are. And I think, you know, I talk a lot about Inworthy in the book about how our past, our past mistakes, our past failures, our past regrets, our past rejections.

so often the stories that we are telling ourselves about them and the meaning we're assigning to them, we've let them take root in our self-worth. A lot of us have had failures, rejections, and instead of thinking like, oh, yeah, I made it through that and having this meaning we assigned to it that's empowering and inspiring, we let it take root in our identity as like, I'm a failure, I'm a reject. And a lot of times we don't realize we're doing this. And so one of the, there's a whole chapter and worthy called when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your entire life. And by the way, I remember, you know, I'm adopted and I was raised in families where, I mean, I remember like hustling, working all these jobs in my teenage years and I was running a health

club. And it was the first time ever. So I was a receptionist in a health club. Then they had me give sales tours when the sales team was busy with other clients. And I started closing deals as a receptionist, not knowing what I was doing. And before I know it, I was promoted into sales. And then in management, not because I earned it in the sense of experience, but just based on numbers. That was it. And I remember I was making more money at 18 than my dad was in his 50s, who was working on an assembly line. And I said, you know, I think I want to, you know, go after these dreams. I think I want to do a television show one day. I'm going to try to figure out how to go to college. No one in my family had ever gone to college. And he's like, absolutely not. Like, do you see how

much money you're making. And now I look back and I was like, I was not even making that much money. But to him, to the circumstances I was raised around, it was a lot. And I always felt, and maybe everyone listening, a lot of people listening can relate to this. I always felt like I was a little bit different. Like I had dreams and goals and I needed to dim my light to fit into my environment. I was sharing dreams. What I didn't know, right, there's the saying, don't ask advice from people who have never been there themselves. And most of my life, I sort of had to, I thought I was odd or strange or different. And I wrote a whole chapter in this called, You're not crazy, you're just first. And it's when you are the first to show up in this world

is who you authentically are, despite your past or the environments you're raised around or the limiting beliefs around you, when you're the first to step into who you authentically are. Don't be surprised if not everyone gets it. Don't be surprised. Don't be surprised. if you feel like you don't quite fit in. But the things that we so often think are wrong with us are actually the greatest things right with us. And when we step into them, it's like so empowering. So when you say you read a lot of comments from people that feel like, oh, that's easy for them or it's easy for that, the tools and worthy are for everybody. It does not matter where you're at or what your life experiences are. At a human level, all of us have tell ourselves similar.

stories about rejection, about failure, about our past mistakes, about the things keeping us stuck, the things holding us back. And when we learn to change our relationship with rejection, we change our entire life. So there's like a four-part framework in Worthy because a lot of people are like, how did you go from your living room to building a billion dollar business, especially in all the years of constant rejections? And how many years was that? Yeah. So, okay, so I launched the business. From living room to exit. It's living room to exit eight years. Okay. Damn.

Yeah. Yeah. Living room to exit eight years. Living room to paying myself a single dollar close to four. So the first three years was like hundreds and hundreds of rejection. So we were teetering on bankruptcy. And in 2008 when I launched it cosmetics, I have this skin condition called rosatia, which is like when I take my makeup off, it's bright red, it's bumpy.

You can probably see some of the bumps right here. It gets really like sandpaper. And I'd seen every dermatologist, tried every medication, all the stuff. And I was anchoring the news. And I thought this what I'm going to do forever is other people's stories. Like I love other people's stories. That's what I'm obsessed with. You know, it's like I feel like it's why I'm here.

And anyway, so I'm like, I'm in my dream job. And I'd be live on the news. And I'd hear my earpiece. Like, there's something on your face. There's something on your face. Need to wipe it off. Need to wipe it off. And I'm live.

And I glanced down. I knew what it was. The makeup would be breaking up. And it would start to look like almost like desert clay cracking where you see the red come through. I know what you're talking about. When I'd acne, when I was. younger. It cracks. I know exactly what you're talking about. So I thought I'm going to get fired, right? And I entered this big season of self-doubt. And what I know for sure, I don't know who

needs to hear this today listening to us, but like I believe so often our setbacks in life are like our setups, right, for what we're called to do, what we're supposed to do. We just don't see it at the time. And I entered this big setback where I was like, every time I'd be on the air, I'd be here my earpiece, it's still there, it's still there. And I try to cover it up with makeup and nothing would work. And so I started this, like, I started getting this gut feeling of like, well, wait a minute, if you could create something that worked for you, it's probably going to help a whole lot of other people. But then my self-doubt in my head would be like, oh, yeah, but you've got no money, you've got no connections, you don't know anyone in the beauty industry.

And I sat in that place between having this knowing in my gut, like I'm supposed to like do the thing and launch it and what if I could do it? And then these knows in my head saying you don't have what it takes. I sat in that place for a way. I sat in that place for a way. I'm supposed to, I'm while and I eventually really had this deep moment where I'm like, okay, my whole life, I have never seen someone with rosacea selling products. Like, what if I could create a beauty company that worked for everybody, even if they had skin issues? What if I put all different types of people as models?

So I had this thing that felt bigger than myself to do. But when I took the jump and launched it in my living room, what I didn't know, because we poured, you guys will relate to this as entrepreneurs, my husband and I poured every penny we had into this thing. And I just thought, if the product's great, it's just going to sell. And so we put everything we had into the formula, into third-party chemists, into making our first product. And then what I didn't know is from that point on, it would be over three years before we would even be able to pay ourselves. And hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of noes.

Every place we sent the product to that I used to save my Denny's tip money to buy one product in their store. Sephora, Ulta, QVC, on television, all the department stores. it was no after no after no. And so many of them would say, like, no one will buy makeup from images like this. Like you need to use unattainable aspiration. You cannot use real people or people that have skin challenges. It's the whole thing. And so it was three, over three years in, and we got one shot on KVC after they told me, no for years.

And not only no, but they said, they said to me, you're not the right fit for our customers or for us. And it was no for years. And at the end of the day, what I know for sure is like knows are almost never personal. They just think like you won't make me money. And that's it. I'm not going to bet on you. There must be something though at this point that feels worthy in you though to go to go like there. There must be something that your self-worth is there.

It wasn't like it was non-existent. Yeah. So a couple things. So, okay. So yes. Yes, based on a couple things. one, prayer and starting to believe God's word over my own doubt, two, a big tool that I go into a whole chapter in Worthy, the book on how to do this in your own life. It's actually what I was going to share

earlier. So let me do it. So in the midst of that season, right? Because you're like, how did you, where was that worth in you to get through years and years and years of rejections? Because by the way, not to give up the punchline, but we eventually got one shot on KVC. We got one shot. We got a 10-minute window. And you guys to put this in perspective, oh, 10 minutes. And here's what's wild is especially, oh gosh, for anyone who needs to hear this today who's like, who's letting other people's doubts about them equate to doubt in their own head, or they feel like, why is my business not taking off? I knew in my knowing, like my, I knew this was going to be big. I knew it. But sometimes you feel like is my intuition wrong because I'm getting all these nose around me.

We finally got this one shot. Finally, after QV's. said no, forever. One shot, which meant I got a 10-minute airing live on TV. So they broadcast to 100 million homes. We get one shot. Now, to put this in perspective, you guys. Yeah. Well, and we were only selling, at that point, we were only selling like two to three orders a day on our website, barely alive. And I found out in this one shot, we had to sell over 6,000 units of our concealer to hit their sales number or not come back. Because when you're live on television, you have to hit the same sales numbers as, you know, Apple iPhone, Dyson, vacuum, anyone else. Because that inventory to them is worth that airtime. Yeah, that airtime. Yeah. Because it's not like a

store where a bunch of people can coexist. It's that one 10-minute window. And then I learned, okay, we have to sell 6,000 units. But guess what? It was a consignment offer. That meant we had to pay for all the inventory, manufacture it, ship it in, not guaranteed anything. Then I go live for 10 minutes in my one shot. If it does not sell, we take it all back, which means we go bankrupt. We didn't even have the money to say yes to this. And so we went out and tried to get SBA loans. And 22 banks said no, and they should have. The 23rd bank, which was California Bank and Trust. Here's a bank with them. Yeah, you did. Back in the day. Oh my gosh. Okay, that makes me happy. They said yes, they gave us an SBA loan just to cover this like one purchase order and a little bit more.

And so I'm like, okay, we're going all in. And then we took that little bit more and we hired third party consultants. And they all told me the same thing. They're like, in order for you to have a shot at this, at you hitting these sales numbers, here's what you need to do. Use this exact type of model, you know, etc., etc. And I said, listen, I'm really trying to like change the beauty industry. What if I put models in their teens and models in their 80s, and what if I take my own makeup off and show my bright red rosacea? And I can prove the product works on live TV. And they were mortified, like mortified, because it hadn't been done. And I sat in this place, and I just want to call this out for anyone listening in this spot where I had this knowing, like I knew why I was doing it. It felt

bigger than myself. And I had this knowing I was supposed to do it, but everyone else was telling me knows. Like, no, you shouldn't do it. No, you're not the right fit. And I feel like in life, when you learn to listen to your own intuition, your own knowing, whether you believe it comes from the universe or God or whatever you believe, I think every one of us are intuitions more powerful than anyone else's advice. And so many of us are in that spot between, oh, I have a knowing, but I'm getting knows from everyone else. Or I have this knowing, but I'm telling myself know in my own head that I'm not enough.

Do you think, though, people were saying no because they're projecting their own self-worth on to you? I, yes, and because they're, and because when you are doing something authentically in this world, by definition, it's never been done before. And that's, when I wrote this chapter in this book, um, in my new book, Worthy called, You're not crazy. You're just first. You don't have to have to be the first ever to think of something. Just right now, you deciding, you being one of the brave ones to show up, why so many people connect with you on media, well, I believe, Lauren, on social media, you freaking fully show up authentically as who you are. You do. And when you're one of the brave ones who shows up as who you authentically are, like it's never been done before, you're first.

And so for everyone listening, if you, there has never been another you before. There will never be another you again. Like, you are the first, you. And if you're one of the brave ones willing to show up in your business, in your ideas, in your art, in your show, in anything else as as who you authentically are, not everyone's going to get it. They're going to think because subconsciously it's never worked before, because it's never been done before. That's a really interesting observation. You're right. Yeah. That's 100% right. You mentioned there's an exercise that the audience can do. When you walk us through the exercise? Yes. Let's put Michael on the spot. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's do it. So in that spot, you guys, when, so I applied this exercise and then I'll take everyone through.

When I walked in the building, we got the 10 minutes. We had the one shot. And I applied this exercise about instead of attaching a certain meaning to all past rejections, I reframe them, believed in empowering meaning around them, and was able to walk in the QVC building in this one shot, which I learned, by the way, walking in, you're not guaranteed the 10 minutes. If you go live and you have to hit the sales numbers, by the second, if you're not hitting them, you might think you have eight minutes left in your 10-minute thing, but they cut your time live. So I remember walking in the building. I remember the 10-minute clock, and it started like 959, 98.

And I just remember like, okay, I can trust what other people are telling me to do, or I can go with my knowing and take my makeup off and try to connect with real women over what I know I'm supposed to do with this brand, over who I am authentically. And everything was on the line because if it didn't work, we would have gotten bankrupt. And I remember, like, I had on double spanks, not because they cared how I looked, but I was, like, sweating so much. because I was scared, shitless. Like, I was like, it was one of the most defining moments in my life of trusting my knowing over all the nose happening around me. And in that moment when the lights went on and the countdown clock started, I remember the moment when my bare face brightwed before shot came up on national TV.

I remember walking over to the models, like every age and shape and size and skin challenge that they were dealing with and skin tone and calling them beautiful and meaning it. And I remember we got down to like the one minute mark. And I didn't know how we were doing, but we weren't cut yet. And then the host says the deep shades almost gone. The tan shades almost sold out. It was the 10 minute mark because I had risked it all and went against everyone's advice and like try to stay true to the authenticity of the brand. And most people would never take their makeup off on live TV.

And so that's authentic. It's real. And it's also. Especially then. And it's showing you like you you also can see the transformation in real life as opposed to these airbrush. Images. Yeah, and it was just at that time it hadn't been done. And I just remember like at the exact 10 minute mark. I didn't know how we're doing. I knew we weren't, they hadn't cut me yet. And the 10 minute mark hit and the giant sold out sign came up across the screen. And I start crying on national television. And I remember they cut from me and like went to Dyson vacuum or something. And my husband comes rushing through the double doors. I thought he was going to hug me because I'm like, huh. And he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And I'm like, Real women have spoken.

And I was like sobbing. And that one airing turned into five that year, 101 the next year. And eventually we did over, I did over a thousand live shows on KVC. And we built. Holy shit. Yeah, we built the biggest brand,

beauty brand in their history. And it still is to this day. And I only share that because it was years of them saying, not only no, but you're not the right fit. And don't do that. Yeah. And exactly. So all the third party consultants that were like,

this isn't going to work. And so, so yeah, it was another huge lesson of trusting your own no. over everyone else's nose, but had I not learned how to apply this framework that it could have never happened. And so in Worthy, there's a whole chapter called when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life. And so here's the thing. As human beings, all of us, right, we're wired to avoid pain at all costs. Like for most of us, we're wired to avoid pain at all costs, which is why a lot of us will not go to the gym to avoid the pain of working out, even though we know we want the outcome or whatever it might be. And so for a lot of us,

We have a meaning, and you know how everything is the meaning we assigned to things. And for a lot of us, we have a negative meaning we assigned to rejection or failure, which makes sense that they both suck. But we assign a lot of pain to both of them, and so it keeps us stuck. It keeps us from going after things. A lot of us have let them take root in our self-worth, and we think we're a rejector, we're a failure because of past mistakes. And so there's a four-part framework.

So that totally flips this on its head. And it's how I was able to endure hundreds of rejections and still keep going and not think, oh, I'm a failure or a reject or I need to stop or my intuition's wrong. And this is big. So the first R is to, it's called reveal. And this is a question for everyone listening and for the two of you and me. And everyone listening, like answered this really honestly with yourself. So when you imagine yourself getting rejected or failing at something, what's the very first thought that goes through your head? Like without even thinking about it.

Like what's the first thing you think when you get rejected or you fail at something? On to the next? Literally, that's so weird that you just said that. I was going to say what's next? Good, good. But I've had hundreds of rejections too, so that's a muscle that I've built. If you would have asked me 15 years ago, I don't think I would have said that. You're talking to two people that have had a lot of.

rejection. But that's also six million hours of therapy on the podcast with people like you. Yes. So I don't think I'm the fair person to ask. I used to get, I remember early days starting anything like you used to we see it like personally offended. Like oh my God I can't believe somebody guys get it. I can't believe someone

doesn't see the vision. And you realize like they just at the time either believe it's not the right fit or they're not going to make money or whatever it may. It really is nothing to it may have nothing to do with you personally. Just like they don't believe. I've learned through meditation not to let history define future. Yes. But if you asked me 10 years ago, the answer would not be what's next.

No, no, no, no. But here's what I love. Okay, I want everyone listening to hear what's next, right? That's big because success leaves clues, right? That famous saying. And when people see where the two of you are right now and then they wonder, okay, what are the tools to get there? The fact that you both said, what's next. So that is your current definition of rejection or failure. Okay. Without us knowing it. Everyone, everyone listening when I said, what's the first thought you think of when you get rejected or fail at something? For me, most of my life, it's, oh yeah, there's proof I'm not enough. Three things that I travel with every single time I go out of town. One, I always have glutathion on me. This is amazing if you are going to drink alcohol. Number two, vitamin C. I have this

packet. It tastes so delicious. And number three is magnesium lavender spray. that I spray on my body. It smells so good. It helps me wind down. I even spray it on the bottoms of my feet. I have been talking about symbiotica forever, and that is because it is something that I seamlessly integrate into my day no matter what. They have the best supplements, and they taste so good. All of their supplements are all about supporting gut health, detoxification, skin health, and premature aging. We have the opportunity of interviewing all three founders. It is so amazing how thoughtful and purposeful they are with their ingredients. There are supplements I even give to my kids. Like I love putting their chocolate mushrooms on top of fruit and giving it to Zaza or towns. You should know they have a subscription

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using the workouts because sometimes I can't get to the gym or I'm traveling and I can quickly just do one. I don't even need a mat. It's so quick. The workouts that I like are a blend of yoga and Pilates and everything sculpts. It gives you these long, beautiful lean muscles. She also has a seven-day reset and renew program, which is really great if you just want to kick something off and practice meditation and resetting for seven days. There's a week-long nutrition program in there. In my opinion, this is the app, and as Melissa says herself, don't trust me, try me. Visit Melissawoodhealth.com and use code skinny at checkout to get your first month free off your monthly membership. That's M-E-L-I-S-A-W-O-D-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-com code skinny for your first month free.

One thing that I do every single morning, and if I can do it at night too, I do, is dry brushing. I cannot get enough of dry brushing and I cannot shut up about it. It's absolutely changed my life. So why I like it in the morning is because I do it like before my kids wake up for three minutes. I go up under the heart and down over the heart and then I'll get in a freezing cold shower for two minutes. And the combo of the dry brushing mixed with the freezing cold shower is seriously four shots of espresso. If I can't take a shower even, the dry brush just wakes you. you up. It stimulates your skin. It's going to give you the most buttery, soft, exfoliated skin.

It's all the dead skin off. The skinny confidential's dry brush is unmatched. It's superior in every single way. Sometimes I'll bring my dry brush in the shower and it gets wet. Never molds. This one is like silicone. It's pristine. It's beautiful. It's big. And the bristles are super thick. So they really get all of that dead skin off. If you have not tried this tool, I highly recommended it. it took a really long time to make sure I was creating one that really gave you buttery skin. I wanted the skin on your body to feel like the skin on your face. So we have a code for you. Go shop the skinny confidential drybrush. All you have to do is use code dry brush at checkout and you get 15% off the entire site. I was at a CEO summit recently.

Literally a thousand people in the room and I asked this question, the answers that came out of people's mouths? Oh my gosh. So when I said, what's the first thought? And maybe people listening can relate to this. What's the first thought you have when you get rejected or fail? Like, be really honest. Like, don't think about it and come up with the answer. Like, be really honest. Like, your first instinct. People are shouting out things like, I suck. I'm a loser. I'm stupid. I shouldn't have ever tried. You know, what was I thinking? I mean, it was like, and people were crying. And this was a business conference. And I think people had never actually even realized the first thing that they think. And for me, most of my life is like, yep, proof again, I'm not enough, right? I don't say that out loud. I don't admit I would never even be aware of that. But that was my first thought. For the two of you now, which is huge. And this is such a great example. I love that you share that. It's what's next, right? So, okay, everyone who just went through that, just take note of that first thought you had. For some of us, there's a few of them. For some of us, there's a few of them. For some of them. For some of you, of us we think, oh, I'm not enough. I suck. I'm a loser. I'm stupid. I shouldn't have even tried.

The list goes on and on. For Ed, I'm not enough still to this day. So you take note of that and that's your current definition of rejection and failure. And why this is important is because for so many of us, if our current definition is painful, we will not go for the things. We will stay stuck. We won't go after it because we'll associate so much pain with the potential of rejection or failure. And so the first step that I go through in here is, okay, what's your current definition? Then the next step is to redefine it. And so this is why I'm excited about what you guys shared because you've gone through this. You've gone through this. And success leaves clues, right? And so two things. When I shared like that season of hundreds

and hundreds of rejections, there was one super painful rejection where I was crying my eyes out under my covers. And I just decided to Google everyone I admired most in business who would like change the world or thought leaders who had helped heal humanity through love. And I just was Googling all of them one day and reading their stories. And I was like, they've all gone through countless rejections and failures. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyway. And we still get a ton of notes. Yeah, me too. Like all the time. Even for this show, for example. Yeah. Like we will ask all sorts of, I think people, like, we'll see guests like yourself come on and they don't realize for every one yes from someone like yourself, there's like 10 no's

like, it's not the right time, not the right fit. Yeah. You know, but again, it's like on to the next. Like, okay, well, who's going to say yes? So what I love, okay. So that day when I wrote, you know, when I was like, oh, wow, they've all gone through a million rejections too. They're just the brave ones that keep going.

I wrote in my journal, rejection does not mean I'm not enough. Rejection means I'm one of the brave ones willing to keep going for it anyway. Like, I'm not going to sit on the side. lines of life living in regret. Like every time I get rejected, I'm going to decide. I'm going to assign the meaning to it that like, oh, this is a victory. It means I'm one of the brave ones willing to keep going for it. And what happens is I no longer associate pain with rejection or failure. And I start to rewire literally the neuropathways in my brain to associate empowering thoughts with rejection or failure. Right? Another one is rejections God's protection. I mean,

I start stacking these up in a toolkit, and I teach everyone how to do that in your own life to build these new meanings that you believe are true. And then when it happens, you no longer let rejections take root as like, oh, I'm a failure. I'm a reject. They no longer impact your self-worth. You now are unfazed by rejection or failure. The way the two of you are with what's next, on to the next. Like that is an empowering definition, right?

For some people, their new empowering definition is like, okay, this is another rejection. I'm one step closer to the yes or I'm putting in the reps. And so going through this and then learning and I go deep in like this masterclass about how to do this in the book about, okay, you can write out a new one, but how do you really believe it to the point where you can fundamentally shift your business, your goals, your dreams, your confidence in relationships. The third part to this, and this is a big one, maybe I'd be curious if you guys have done this in your life yet, especially with the blessing of just so many incredible shows you've put out like over 600. shows, right? I think I read and just all the therapy or a lot of shows. In a weird way, it's been a lot of therapy on the show. But you know, quickly, I would, I also realize that I learned some of these lessons early on because I would see some of, not me myself, because I would have been born, but you would see some of my guy friends and you would see some other ones.

You'd like, that one's the ladies man and this one is not, right? And I'm just like, you would, but many times, the person who you would think would not be getting the girls would always get the girls. And the other one didn't have the self-work. to believe. But the key was the ones that did, I would watch them. And it was like, they knew every night, like, eventually someone will say yes to a date. And they would approach over and over, and they would get

a ton of rejections, but they just kept going. You'd have the other side, would go to one and get one rejection, and just crush them. And I would observe this stuff, and I'm like, huh, like, this one guy is getting rejected over and over, but it's like not phasing at all. And the other one takes one rejection. It's like,

the night is destroyed. Yeah, it's the meaning we attach to it. Exactly. Yeah. And so when you redefine it. And then the third R is my favorite, which is revisit. Here's the thing, y'all. So many of us have past rejections or failures. And I'm talking about somebody we dated who just crushed our heart or a person who did not know how to love us the way we needed to be loved in our family or friends, something that

happened growing up. Or it could be even like a recent rejection, like someone applying for a job and they wanted it's so bad and the person didn't see their value and they didn't get the job or whatever. I love to go back and revisit because a lot of us are hanging on to past rejections or failures that we've let take root in our identity without realizing it that tell us that we are a failure or that we are unwanted or rejected. And like two quick examples, you know, I was adopted and most, and growing up, my parents worked all the time.

And so between those two things, I sort of like had laid. I labeled myself in a way unwanted or abandoned. And that came out in some wild ways in relationships and in all kinds of things and me not firing employees quick enough because I didn't want to abandon anyone else even though they had betrayed me or whatever it was, just unhealthy ways. And I went through this process of literally redefining things. And I'm like, oh, I'm not abandoned. I'm not unwanted. Like I'm chosen. Like my birth mom chose to bring me into this world and my adopted parents chose to raise me.

And like, like, and God chose me to come. Like, I redefined it and I no longer let that take root. But my favorite one that I use actually almost every day, because we all get rejections. Like, to your point, right, a friend doesn't invite us. We're not invited the party. Whatever it is, my favorite one for someone who needs to hear this day. I already know, in my soul, someone listening to us needs to hear this today. For anyone who has had someone like, between.

betray them, pull the rug out from under them, not see their value, mistreat them, whatever it is. I literally, I will, when this happens to me in my life, which is all the time, all of us all the time, I will imagine my creator saying to me, oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny. And I believe that. And that definition I now have applied to past rejections or failures. this is life changing, it's business changing, it's relationship changing. When you can go back and look at those things that you realize, oh, wow, I've assigned this

meaning to them. But I'm going to revisit. I'm going to be like, oh, no, no, wait, I wasn't rejected. Like, oh, yeah, whatever you believe, the universe, God, your creator. No, you reframe it. Like, God, like, oh. We love a rebrand. You know art.

Yeah, yes, exactly. But it's empowering. And to use your example, I'm so fired up about that. It's so good because it's so true. The dude that gets. one rejection. It's like, oh, it's so bad. And then, end phase, end phase. I'm going to get the night. I mean. I watch these guys walking like ping pong balls. And it's just like,

watch them in the bar. There's something kind of hot too about someone who gets knocked down and gets back up. Yeah. It's knocked down and gets knocked down and gets back up. It's funny. My entire life I watched my dad, because he's an entrepreneur, like that. Get knocked down and get back up. Get knocked down and get back up. That's what you do. Yes. Yes. You just, what Jay-Z says the genius thing we did was we never give up. That's so, it's so true. Yes. Yes. I had a failure.

in my life. And at the time I was trying to explain it and it sounded a little bit psychopathic or arrogant, but listening to you talk. So when I had the failures, I think there's two choices when you have a stepback in life. You tell yourself you're a failure, in which case I think you become more of that. Or you tell yourself, hey, that was just a setback and I'm still a winner and I can keep going. But I remember I had family members that were like pushing me so hard to repent and be like, that was a failure and call yourself a failure. And I refused to do it at the time and the way I explain it is like if I start telling myself that story that's exactly what my story will be so I can't even look at it even though objectively there were failures and there were

things that were objectively setbacks but if I started telling myself that over and over my fear was like that will be what my life will become so I just started reframing me and saying you know what that wasn't a failure was a learning lesson to put me in the better direction and I just kept repeating that and I think like that's the distinction because and did you believe it at your core yeah no and let it take root yeah but but i so you know i have you have these friends and they'll say well every morning i manifest and i do gratitude i go yeah that's good if you do that for 10 minutes in the morning but if the rest of the day is spent telling yourself you're not those things that 10 minutes isn't going to be enough to offset which you're telling yourself the majority of the time so i just it's almost like i don't want to look into that abyss

because that abyss will become the truth yes and what you said to you is so powerful because you're a lot of people man i i love a good vision board, I manifest, I love it, and, and the other part of it, which is so many of us can manifest stuff on the vision board. But if we don't believe we're worthy of that stuff, because the story we're telling ourselves about ourselves is that we're not, and we don't even realize it, we can manifest all day long. We can have the best vision board. We could do all of it. But we will either sabotage the thing like I did with Oprah that day, or it will not come. Because if deep down inside we don't, our story, we're telling ourselves about our identity

and who we are. Yeah, it says we're not enough. Yeah, it's the, it's the meaning we attach to all of it. And so, and here's the thing that I love about building self-worth is it's so different than self-confidence. Self-worth, every single person listening to us right now is fully worthy. It's not about like learning something to finally be worthy. It's not. It's about unlearning all the lies that we believe that tell us we're not. And how do you unlearn those and build your self-worth back up? And it's huge. And I think a lot of times it might sound like, oh, is worthy the book or self-worth is that for people that are struggling or broken or whatever, which all of us are both. But oh my gosh, for anyone who is like super ambitious and an achiever has goals and dreams,

has hopes, and doesn't know like why they still feel like they're not enough deep down inside, it's almost all of us. It's the one thing. It really is the one thing that changes everything. And so I really believe that you want to double your success, double your self-worth. Yeah, I try to spend a lot of time now thinking about achievement in a different way because I think to your point, at some point it's good. It can be good. And it drives you to keep pushing to improve your life or your business or whatever.

But at some point, if you can't ever be happy with that goal or what you achieve, you're just going to be on an endless hamster wheel. And you wonder how sometimes you meet some of the most successful people in the world and they're not happy. Yes. And it's this, it's what you're talking about. Yes. So exactly. Who needs to read worthy? Who's the person?

Yes. Every person who has some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill. To everybody. Everybody. If you, I mean, oh my gosh, it is the, I think self-doubt kills more dreams than almost anything else. and it is a lie where we believe we are not enough, it is a lie, and the time to unlearn that lie has come. So anyone who knows like, oh yeah, I struggle with self-doubt and I don't want to anymore, because that's the thing is I think on a self-worth journey, you have to want to.

You have to want to unlearn those lies and you have to want to really step into that and believe you're worthy of it. But yeah. This is a big moment for you to have this book. I feel like you said it off air. Like this is, I know it cosmetics sold for a billion dollars, This is like, this probably feels really good for you. Are you feeling that? Or not because it's not out yet? You will feel it, I think. You know what?

Thank you for saying that. Worthy, this book is the best work of my life. I'm donating 100% of the proceeds to it. All my author, royalties, everything. I'm literally just doing it because I feel like I'm called to. There's a famous quote by Rory Vaden who says, like, in life, we're best positioned to serve the person we once were. and most of my entire life,

no matter how much success I was like accumulating, I still felt like I wasn't enough. And this is a book for anybody who wants to overcome that feeling. And I think like we were talking about purpose earlier and all that. And I think that like and people that have gone through hard things. And, you know, I believe that that all of us, we think sometimes, oh, I should get my purpose and my job and I don't.

And I should. And all the things. I think it's the things that we're going through, the hard things we're going through that become the things we've made it through, those things that then we can help other people make it through. And that's where I think we get our deeper sense of purpose. And for some of us, it's setbacks and horrible things we would not ever want to go through again or wish on anyone else, but we made it through them. We came out. We defied the odds. And then helping other people go through those things, I think is one of the greatest ways to find purpose. And I think, you know, for me,

gosh, I came so close to doubting myself out of my own destiny so many times, you know, so many times. And I think about, okay, so I'm launching my own show for the first time ever having Oprah as my guest. Like, what, as my first guest? That almost didn't happen because for four years I didn't call her. Like, and I think about, I think about everyone listening with us right now. What are the things all of us are doubting ourselves out of? You know what I mean? And so for me, I'm just, I'm fired up about the moment a man or a woman, the moment a person learns to believe they're worthy. That, I mean, I think about the unhealthy relationships that are going to end. Like the businesses that'll be launched, the ideas that will be birth, like the art and the offerings will be put out in the world because someone will actually believe, oh, I am worthy of it. That's what I'm excited about. Jamie, it's giving Oprah. Are you the Oprah of our generation? This is giving Oprah, what you're saying. I'm feeling. feeling Oprah vibes.

This is like, are you to make me cry? Yeah, it is. I'm really happy for you. I think this is so, I mean, you're really, you're really hitting the science of achievement and the art of fulfillment that Tony Robbins would say. You're checking both the boxes. I'm really happy for you. This is cool.

Someone in your position does not need to do this. That's why it's so cool. And I think people will look at what you've done in your life and they would have expected a different book. Does that make sense? and to see you write this book even with every I think it it shows to people that like

you know of course achieve and do all the things but this is really going to help people at every stage maybe do the same things that you've done and like you said you can't get to that place until you do this kind of work I also feel like this just adds another layer for you that's so cool I mean it's a whole you're like an onion

where can everyone buy your book as are you as are both of you this is so great to be here So Worthy, it's out. I'm so excited. You can get it anywhere books are sold, and I don't sell anything on my site, but at Worthybook.com, there's lots of free gifts. Just thank you gifts for anyone who picks up the book, and it's on Audible and it's on Audible and it's on Audible and where can everyone follow you on Instagram? Yeah, at Jamie Kernlema. at Jamie Kernlema on Instagram and then the Jamie Kernlema show launching anywhere you get your podcasts

or on YouTube. With Oprah Winfrey as her first guest. Go listen. Jamie, thank you for coming on. Come back anytime you want. You got to sign our books before you go. Yes. What we're going to read.

Thank you so much. Hope you loved this episode. Make sure you are subscribed to the Him and Her newsletter, TSCPodcast.com. And also, if you want to watch this episode, we are on YouTube now. Just search the Him and Her Show.

show. I think that's so fun that you can now like be in the room with us, sort of. And on that note, we'll see you guys next time.