The Bossticks - Jen Atkin On Blowing Her Way To The Top, How To Break The Rules, Find Your Purpose, & Create The Life & Career You Deserve

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

#312: On this episode we are joined by Jen Atkin. Jen Atkin is an entrepreneur and celebrity hair stylist. She is also the founder of Ouai haircare. On today's episode Jen joins us to discuss how to build a career breaking the rules, finding your purpose and creating the life and career you deserve.  To connect with Jen Atkin click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that's reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you're ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your 'Lifelong-Health-401k'. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 25,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for free. That's right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to by Skillshare. So Skillshare, what is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people. You can explore new skills, deep in existing passions, and get lost in creativity. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you.

Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. You are going to be that person who has an idea who maybe doesn't have a like the power or the clout, but if your idea hits, you're then going to be that person that

has power and cloud, but do you own your business? So I think it's really important for people to know that like you need to be smart with your money while you're building your business model. Hello, happy Tuesday. Welcome back to the skinny confidential hymn in her show. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Jen Adkin, who owns way. She is a hairstylist, entrepreneur, and columnist, she is considered to be one of the most influential hairstylists in the world. She's a dog mom, a wife, and she is a fucking badass. And now an author. And now an author.

She has a book blowing my way to the top. Love the title. Love the title. How to Break the Rules, Find Your Purpose, and Create the Life and Career You Deserve. And guys, this book is so up everyone's alley. I feel like the entire audience is going to be so in love with this book. It gives so many tips and secrets for cutting the line. That's how she describes it, which I think is really amazing.

And the title is just so good. And I really love her story. It shows how somebody from humble beginnings can really go and build a global brand, a massive personal brand, a massive following, and become an author. It's a real testament to her in such an inspiring story for so many young people, or even old people, included. And one of the most frequently asked questions that I get in my DM inbox, Michael, is what you use on your hands.

hair. That's what people are bothering you about? Yeah. People want to know. Just give it up. Give up the secret. I've already told people a million times. It used to be Redkin Rough Pace 12 when I did the slick back. Now it's not because it's just... What is it? It's not, I can't use the rough pace anymore because it can't. It's too strong. Are you one of those people that's like, oh, I can't remember because you just don't want to give up the secret? No, I was using Redkin Rough Pace 12 and now I'm using just like basically water and spray sometimes. Sometimes I don't use a spray. Sometimes I use this like kind of gel, but it's, look at it. It's just long and flowing and flying everywhere. He does love Redkin Rough Pace.

That was when I did the slickback. But now he's doing half bun and you're using my silk scrunchy. Yeah, I told you. It's just free-flowing. Yeah, okay. Well, that's Michael Bostick's hair. Anyway, we do talk about some of Michael's secrets in this episode and your hairline we discussed. I'm sure that's what everyone's interested in.

We talk in this interview about working her way to the top, moving from Utah to California, the Kardashians. We even ask her which ones are favorites. And we get into her book. It's amazing. You guys are going to love her. With that, I'll introduce you to entrepreneur and celebrity hairstylist, Jen Adkin. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Who is your favorite person that you've blown on your way to the top?

My husband. Your husband. Well, you blew him in all different kinds of ways. My favorite person I've ever blown out their hair. I would say, God, there's so many. I'd say like a moment that stands out for me was doing Gwen Stefani for the cover of Vogue. That's a good one.

I'm sure that's in the book. That was pretty cool. I'm sure we get to get the juice on all of that. How many secrets have you heard? Should I just break the NDAs right now? I'm sure. I was thinking when we were talking to McCall's like she probably has heard all of the juicy secrets. How much money do you guys have for legal fees?

Not a lot. Not a lot. You're going to go on your own. Let's do this. I want to go all the way back to when you were little. Did you always know that you wanted to do what you do and be an entrepreneur and do hair? I was always obsessed with makeover scenes and movies. First of all, I grew up in a religious, like, Mormon community. And like, everyone watched Disney movies. My parents never watched rated-at-R movies. Like, we didn't hear swear words and music, like, nothing. But I remember, like, being so not into the Bible and Book of Mormon and being so. so into pop culture. Like I had to have like posters on my wall and I just loved the idea of like

glam like Madonna Vogue and like George Michael's like, you know, faith video or or freedom. Like I just like loved pop culture so much. So I always wanted to be creative. I had no idea that you could actually like make a living doing hair. So when did you realize oh shit like I'm going to beauty school. I'm going to do hair and make a living? When I took that leap of faith, and moved to L.A. in 2000 with my best friend. We'd like, Romy and Michelleed it up. It was very Britney Spears crossroads. We left, like, our Mormon community and moved to L.A., not knowing anyone. And I scored this insane job being a receptionist at a salon called Estilo that's still on Beverly and Martel. And I was, like, just learning the ways of the world. I was like, wait,

there's gay men. They just want to, like, dance with me and hang out with me, but not have sex with me. this is awesome. And I remember like feeding Bet Midler and Stevie Nicks meters and just being like, where am I? This is crazy. And then that's when I really like got to dive into the hairstyling, like world. When you grow up Mormon and then you move to L.A. and have the contrast between like, you know, what L.A. is compared to where you came from? Like, what does that do to the psyche in the beginning? Like, are you like, what the hell is going on? Are you like, is there a lot to figure out? Or like, how did that manifest itself? Yeah, I felt like in Encino Man. Like I fully remember just being so eyes open wide.

It's like different worlds. Completely. Yeah. I was like, you know, it's like going from Donnie Osmond show to, you know, at the time, God, I'm trying to think in 2000, like, what was all the rage? I just remember like sunset being so exciting, you know? And like Hollywood was like, was Perez Hilton out in 2000? Yeah.

I remember like being obsessed like Perez Hilton and Pink is. the new blog and like, you know, just everything about L.A. was brand new and so exciting. When did like things start to take off for you, the momentum? I'd say probably, well, here's, here's my timeline. Assisted in 2004 to like 2007, then went on my own in the salon, working at Chris McMillan salon. And then from there, I was like, okay, I have a steady business in the salon, I could just, you know, be happy and stay in the salon. But I was like, no, I want to learn how to do, like, editorial hair. So I started assisting again, editorial hairstylist. And then I was like, I want to go to New York Fashion Week and Paris Fashion Week. So I started assisting on those shows. And, you know,

all those things led me to, like, celebrity hairstyling and kind of, I just grabbed little tidbits from each world. And, like, that kind of created my, like, style of doing hair. I'm sure this is in the book. But who was the first celebrity that you did? And what was the experience like? So my first celebrity clients, I was doing extensions in 2008. And Nicole Ritchie tells the funniest story. She's like, you came into my house and you were doing extensions. And at the time, it really took a long time.

It was like a five-hour process. And she says it halfway through, you know, she was like, oh, my God, you know, this is hard. It's taking forever. And I was like, I know. Like, I would hate this. So she's like, okay. No shit. Yeah.

Yeah, it was like Nicole Ritchie and Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears were like my first clients and Misha Barton. So like that tells you kind of the time frame. You've done really well with really high profile clients. It seems like you have like such longevity with all of them. What do you think the trick is compared to other stylists or hair stylists or makeup artists that don't have that kind of longevity? I always say I don't think I'm like the best hairstylists out there. Like for sure, there's people who are. more skilled in different genres than I am. I think it comes down to your work ethic and I think it

comes down to your loyalty and you just have to work hard and not be an asshole. Really? It's hard though for a lot of people. I also think that with hair and makeup, there's so much in people's energy, like your space that you have to also like come with good energy and good vibes because you're in someone's like area. I actually write about it in the book because one of the lessons that I really learned is like it's not about you the chapter's called it's not about you no really it's not about you and being in the service industry you know i've seen it all i've seen people who have gotten you know some exposure and pre-instagram like we're like the hot hair people or makeup people or or styleist or whatever and i've seen people who have not been you know respectful to their clients or

they start to like believe their own hype and think that like one of my quotes is all the hair stylists that i kind of watched in the salon it was like they had so much money clothes in their closet, no money in the bank. So I kind of saw it all. But that's one thing that I think has really helped to drive me to my success as being able to be in that world, but understand my role in it. I think a lot of people, like, almost in every industry, they make that mistake where they're like, they hit a hot moment, right, and they get some popularity. And they think, oh, this is going to last forever. And I can just kind of go off my own and do my own thing. They don't think like, okay, maybe I'm just in a really good year, really good time.

And I think they end up like a lot of people end up shooting themselves in the footy that blow their money or they ruin the relationships or they blow the trust. And then it's like then you're literally back before step one. If people don't trust you, then you're done, right? Fully. Especially in that space. You have to learn how to like hang close to the sun but not get burned. That's a hard finesse though.

It's not easy. No, it's not. It's a lot of self-awareness. It's not just like you just said, it's not just all about talent. It's about energy. It's about self-awareness. There's like, it's a very, it's a recipe. When I imagine people talk a lot in your field, right?

Like, I've just seen Lauren and when she, you know, she has people doing her hair or whatever, like, everybody talks. And I feel like if you get a bad reputation, then, you know, all of your clients are going to know, right? Yeah. And you know, what's interesting is the more like books I've studied about anything that's like self-help or trying to better yourself, it's interesting the scientific like knowledge behind if you are, if you're gossiping about something or talking about someone, whoever you're talking to, they associate you with whatever story you're telling. So it really is like a bad reflection on you. And so I think, yes, it feels in the time, and I actually write about this in the book as well. It feels at the time like you're bonding over something that's negative, but it really is just like

tarnishing your whole, you know, reputation. So if I'm telling you like a bad story that doesn't have to do with me, you're going to associate that story with me subconsciously. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, and I always kind of like have gone by. One of my friends told me this years ago that if somebody's talking about other people to you, they're probably talking about you to other people. A hundred percent. Or if someone tells you a secret, they're probably telling, yeah. A hundred percent. How did you decide to start this massive company? Obviously, you were content marketing for it. You were doing hair. You're in the industry. You're a practitioner. You're an expert. How did you decide one day, okay, I want to take this to the next level and do a whole business? I think being in the right place of the right time was definitely part of my story. I have so many female entrepreneur friends that we all kind of grew up together.

So Jessica Alba actually is one person that I met when I was a receptionist at that salon in 2001. And, you know, it's interesting to watch, you know, her create the honest company. My other friends, Hillary Kerr and Catherine Power, started Click Media with Who What Wear. It's been so awesome to kind of have my clients also building their own brands at the same time. So I have been just a fly in the wall learning so much. So I felt like while I didn't go to college, I felt like I really understood social media and the power of it and how to really connect with your consumer, you know, through social media.

And I loved the idea of like being a disruptive, digitally savvy, socially connected brand, and it didn't exist in the hair world. So I did my due diligence. It'd been years of, you know, I was an ambassador for different brands. got to see what it was like working for like the big brands. And the more I researched who was behind the brands. This is before like we had brand founders that everyone knew. It was literally older white men who were the messaging was like making women feel bad about themselves, making women feel like, you know, we have the solution for your problem kind of thing. But

it wasn't like celebrating women or talking like you would to a friend. There were so many different aspects. I could go on and on. It came to packaging and sense. and formulation, all of it. So I knew that I had a good idea. I had to then raise capital. I had to, you know, figure out kind of how to balance my successful career while I'm building this brand, while I'm sharing it all on social media. And I have to give so much kudos to my clients and friends who have supported me because,

you know, without them and without that community that supports way, like we wouldn't have made it. I think people look at Way now and they like just assume like because it's such a successful brand. They're like, oh, that it just looks easier now than it probably was. And if you could go back a few years like when you were formulating the idea and raising capital, what would you tell your younger self and to that end? Like there's a lot of young people that listen to the show and want to do like something along the lines of what you've done. Like what would you tell them and especially now as the landscapes changed? I tell them to buy my book. No, I would actually tell anybody who has a great idea to really save your money so that you can invest in that idea. Like you have to be able to put your

money into it so that at the end of your journey you feel really good about where you're at. I would also say get a good lawyer. Yeah. You know, like I think that's one thing. Honestasha told me that early on. She like get a lawyer you can afford in the early days of signing contracts. And we just saw Dave Chappelle post something on his Instagram about like his dealings with Comedy Central and Biaccom. Oh, that was great by the way. So good. And I was like I really respected. he was being so honest about it because it's true. It's like you are going to be that person who has an idea who maybe doesn't have like the power or the clout.

But if your idea hits, you're then going to be that person that has power and clout. But do you own your business? So I think it's really important for people to know that like you need to be smart with your money while you're building your business model. Quick break because ritual just came out with something new. Essential, wait for it for kids. Michael Bostic, essential for kids. They got men's now. They got women. They got kids. They got the whole family involved.

Prenatal, postnatal, essentials. It is good. If you think your kids are picky, you guys, you have not met the parents at ritual. They are extremely careful. We even talked to the founder and she said after scanning countless labels for multivitamins that they could rely on for their kids, they decided that they would take matters into their own hands and create one for themselves. I feel like if there's any vitamin, I am going to be feeding Zaza when she gets older. It's going to be ritual because I know that there's no shady additives and weird shit in their vitamins. They're non-GMO. They're vegan. They got all the things. And you've been taking the vitamins for years now. No, a long time. I took them. And I just got on the men's this year.

So I took the essentials for probably a year and a half, two years, and then didn't know that I got pregnant, was on the essentials. And then when I found out I was pregnant, switch to the the prenatals. And now I'm on the postnatals. So they've got the whole program, okay? You got to check them out. And to get granular with you on the kids vitamin, if you have kids, they're perfect for picky eaters. Okay. They have a natural citrus berry flavor, so they won't complain. And they're also, and this is the most important thing about ritual, they're convenient by design. So each gummy features a three in one design that combines a daily multi-vegan omega-3 DHA, and it's a good source of fiber per serving. So check out their website. Everything is laid out for you. The science is laid

out. It's like I said, very streamlined, which we love. When it comes to what goes into our kids' body, they've got being picky down to a science. That's why Ritual is offering all Skinny Confidential him and her listeners 10% off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com slash skinny to start ritual or add essential for kids today. Check out their vitamins. You will not be sorry. Yeah, cheap legal bills scare me these days. In the beginning when I was starting out, I was like, oh, I need to go with the cheap because that's what you can afford. But when I see them now, it scares me. I'm like, what are we going to end up paying for later 10fold? Right? It's much better to get a competent lawyer up and spend the money, even if it hurts the bank in the beginning because cleaning up is miserable. It could literally save you millions of dollars. Yes. Yeah. Michael used to say, like his dad's friend used to say whenever you have a small business run it like it's a big business. No, yeah. What he was saying was in the beginning, run it. like it's already a big business and put the proper resources and assets in place, like, legal-wise, accounting, because you're going to end up having to do it later and it's going to be much more

expensive and much more of a headache. And it's just a matter of if, like, not now, like how much of a headache later? Damn, where was your dad in 2015? They used that advice. How's Michael's hairline? What? I want to know. He thinks so, too.

A very strong airline. Thank you. I didn't know what that's what we're going. That was just a little plot twist. I just wanted to know. I'm going to say he's got great hair. Yeah, he thinks so, too. Very many guys can pull off the longer hair sit.

We never got a meet before, but it was really short. And then this pandemic, I've just like let it. We don't need your whole history of your hair. Let's do it. Okay, it's like a family tree. Start from day one. Let's talk about it. I just wanted to know how you thought his hairline was.

I think it's really great. And do you have product in it right now? I have this stuff called... He won't share it though because he doesn't want people to buy it out. I have shared it. Then say what it is. Just say it's way mat pomade. I'll try that.

Let's sell it out. I've been using this stuff called Redkin, but it's just like this like It's rough paste. No, no, no. I used to use the rough paste on my hair short because I slick it back, but now I can't because it's too. Wait, maybe we should get him the palmade to try. Yes, I actually, I like to meet people in person and see what you need and I'll send it to you.

Okay. Okay. I'm probably better than what I'm using, for sure. I'm sure it's better. Retail values of higher. Check out way, everybody. Okay, so I have a selfish question. Raising money as a woman is, I think, more difficult than raising money if you're a man.

Just for me, my experience. By the way, you could go back. You could go broader and say life is more difficult for a woman that is a man. Sorry. I agree. I saw her give birth and I was like, we could, we could never do that. You complain about a paper cut, so you can never do it. So how did you go about doing that when you said, you know, you didn't graduate from college? How did you have the tools in your toolbox to do that? What did you do? Did you ask friends? What did you do? Yeah, again, I think watching my friends who had raised capital for their, you know, budding businesses helped give me like the confidence and guidance. I asked like some of my clients managers, you know, I actually just recently, Sophia Vergara's

manager, like long time manager, Luis Pallaguar, posted about my book and he was one of the first. He had pictures of me. We were flying private like in 2000 and probably 10 and me like on my computer because I was just always trying to kind of like keep my ideas organized and and taking notes. And I remember kind of just Googling business plans or I had been. sent some business plans to look at. So I kind of just used that as my template and my guide and put the idea out there. And it really was just kind of like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what stuck. How long from when you had the idea, like walk us through the timeline, you have the idea. Did it take

you three years to develop the product? So I'd say started passing around a business plan 2013, then met my investor who is incredible. We started formulating and traveling all over the U.S. to find the right laboratories for certain products in 2014. So it took probably about a year and a half. And then we launched February 2016. I'll never forget the day. It was like February 3rd.

And I remember just like my phone blowing up. Instagram was going crazy. February 3rd like Mean Girls Day? Yeah. Who knew? February 3rd. Yeah, February 3rd. So what would your advice be for someone that wants to launch a digital forward company, like using social media? What are some tips and tricks that you have up your sleeve that you think have really worked? I would say this. Don't be naive to the fact that the world is watching your page. You know, like I remember when we first launched at Sephora, US, I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting.

And the floodgates of like, when is it coming to Australia? When will it be in Germany? Are you guys going to be in Dubai? Like, it was, that was stressful for me. I was like, oh, my God. Now we have to like figure out how to do this globally. And Instagram is incredible because you can crowdsource with so many people everywhere. But it also complicates things.

Like I had to think about like environmental, the environment that people live in in different parts of the country and what they would need for the hair and now their body because now we're like a full lifestyle brands. I would say crowdsourcing using the tools that Instagram has. It's such an amazing gift. Being able to take polls. And, you know, I'll even sometimes go into my close friends and ask, like, which color of this jar do you like? You know, it's so incredible to be able to not only crowdsource, but also create

focus groups. You've built the products. So influencers and celebrities want them on their feed. Like, they look aesthetically pleasing. It's not something you wouldn't want on your Instagram feed. Yeah. I wouldn't say that I keep. just influencers and celebrities in mind.

But like, trust me when I get like a text from one of my friends that's like, oh my God, this is really good. Or like they post it in their gorgeous bathrooms. I'm like, oh, my God, this is great. I love getting like compliments from my picky friends too who are like the design snobs. It's really fun. But yeah, I think, you know, what we try to do is really just stay true to who we are as a brand, but also like learn from our followers and try to, we try to just like,

not do what everybody else is doing and just do us. You're very community driven, which is good. Very, yeah. Your husband's a photographer. He's also very successful. How did you guys meet and how do you guys work together? Michael and I need all the tips for working together. Well, you guys know, it's not always easy.

No, it's not always easy. What? He hates working with me. We met at an Oscar party in, let's see, 11 years ago through Lindsay Lohan. Okay. That old romantic love story. Wait, you met through Lindsay Lohan. She's like, you guys have to meet and set you up?

He was shooting her for a campaign she had. I was at my client's Oscar party and then people on set, mutual friend of ours and Lindsay's at the time was like, we should go to this party and they did. And I thought he was gay and we sat and talked for hours and I was like cute. He said that like I don't, it's funny. It wasn't love at first sight for sure. It was more like an L.A. combo.

just like talking about work. And then we just both happened to be in Paris for Fashion Week. I was working with John Goliano at the time. And my husband was in Paris. And so we hung out during Fashion Week and had like a very, it was kind of a Carrie Bradshaw moment. Like had our first kiss like with the Eiffel Tower in our peripheral vision. It was really fun.

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Whoever's looking at you, let's be frank. Is going to get excited. Michael is constantly trying to pinch my ass in these pants that are as comfortable as my pajamas. And succeeding. Okay, Michael. So if you're looking for a work from home outfit, that you can zoom into the office with, these are your pants. Here's a pro tip and one tip that a lot of successful people have said when they come on our podcast. And that is to put on some real

pants when you're working from home. Real shirt, sort of just feel like you're together. Whenever I put on these yoga pants, I feel like I've done something productive for the day. I personally like the black skinny ones. Those are the ones I always go to. I have like three different pair. But if black's not your color, then they have lots of different colors, okay? Like go on there. There's the rainbow on there, any kind of color. They also have bootleg, straight leg, skinny, cropped eight pocket, all of them. Okay? And they launched new styles weekly. There's nothing worse than feeling like you have to unbutton your pants. And you don't have to do that with these pants. And I can tell you from first hand experience, okay? They're comfortable as

shit. Right now, all skinny confidential listeners can get 25% off their first order when you go to Betabrand.com slash skinny. That's 25% off your first order for a limited time at betabrand.com slash skinny. Find out why women are buying five different pairs of these pants. Go to Betabrand.com slash skinny for 25% off. You're going to love how your ass looks in these. I'm telling you. But was he into you first or were you into him first? For sure, I think I got stoned and was like, are you going to kiss me? So I think I was into him first. And how do you guys work together now? Like, what does that look like? What's the day to day on that? I torture him and he doesn't charge me.

That's what it looks like. Why do you torture me? You think I torture you? Yeah. Oh, you torture me horribly. She finds like little tasks for me that don't have anything. Like if I'm, if I only give him one task at once because I don't want to overwhelm him. That's the trick.

If I ever get a moment of like. And then you check that off. Then you can move to the next thing. Yeah. Because if I try to put too much on Mike's plate here for sure is like, oh, I forgot about that one thing. I was like, no. I am such a perfectionist.

So when we're on set together, he hates it. I like to be director. And I do it even when it's not with Mike. And I need to like stay in my lane sometimes. But I also know what I want to get. You know, it's a hard process. You're a visionary. You have the vision in your head.

Yeah. But by the way, and I'm not afraid to say this, he gets credit for so many things. Like I might have like a little bossy tip or tidbit or ask him like whisper in his ear or something. And then he does it. And it's like, oh my God, he's all amazing. That sounds familiar. Yeah, it sounds so familiar. Like you get the credit.

I'm scared to give you an idea because then you repackage it. My favorite is you repackage it and repurpose the idea as your own. It's like giving someone a gift and then they give it to someone else and wrap it up. I learned a long time ago, always take the credit. He does always take the credit. Another tip from your dad. Thanks, Dad. I don't know if that was from him, but it's working well.

Okay, how long have you guys been together? 600 years. We've known each other since we were 12. But we haven't been together that long. We've been together for like 13 years. Yeah, she's been obsessing me for forever. Guys, I still feel the sparks between you, too. That's a good thing.

We have sparks. We have sparks still. We have to in order to get through this craziness. I mean, we didn't. The quarantine doesn't really make you want to get on your knees and, you know, suck a dick. If any marriage can get. It doesn't. It doesn't.

I was talking to my Pilates teacher today about this. The quarantine is not like the sexiest of situations. No, there's a global pandemic going around in a crazy virus. It's not the most exciting time for human connection. My friend sent me like a link to some. lingerie brand. This stuff is so pretty. And I was like, I don't want to see this. I'm in like, I'm still in banana bread face. Oh. Like, I don't need to see this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just sweats is fine for me. This year, any relationship that can get through this year, if you've been in a close relationship

living together this year like that, it's going to be able to stand the test of time because this is hard. Yeah. Don't you find yourself like, babe, we haven't killed each other and it's been seven months. I know. It's wild. We come on the edge of killing each other, though. Well, because people think Lauren and I are together all the time. Outside of this show, we run separate things, right? and this was my office and she was at her office. And so like we had that time when we do the show. I like absence makes the heart grow fonder. You know, we need to like read.

Then we come together. But now everybody's all day on top of each other. Guys, be careful what you wish for because once we go back to like being on that treadmill again, it's going to be we're going to probably miss each other a lot. The world needed the stillness. The world needed the reset for sure. Yes. It needed the stillness.

What is your morning routine, including with your products? If there's certain products that you reach for, like do you have a whole setup in the morning or is it different every single day? I have, like my beauty routine is pretty much the same. I only wash my hair like every two or three days. So here's a little tip for everybody out there. I shampoo because I have oily roots and long hair. So I shampoo with way detox shampoo with the roots. And then I use like our hydrating medium shampoo for the ends, like mid-length to ends. And then only do our treatment mask from mid-length to ends. And then like face-wise, I am really so boring. I use Barbara Sturm's products.

I love Shantakai and Shawnee Darden's products. Dennis Gross has these really cool pads that I use at night. And that's, yeah, kind of my routine. You're talking about the exfoliating peel pads, right? Those are the best. They're so good. You just see like a layer of dirt come off of your face. It's great.

Dr. Dennis is one of the best people. He's been on the show a couple times coming on again soon. I love him. If not, I would look like just like an old, you know, a piece of dust. Well, you got to get that face chilled doing that light thing. Oh, I got it. Oh, he hasn't. Me and Dr. D.

Dr. D did Botox on him on the show. First time. Are we calling him Dr. D? Dr. D. I call him, yeah, we're like, you know. Dr. D.G. Yeah, he gave me Botox the first time I ever had it on this show while we were doing the show. Maybe Jen should come back and wash your hair on this show because that takes about an hour.

Yeah, I don't know. You just get all my stuff done on the show. If there's a product out of all your products that you would recommend our audience starts with, what would it be and why? For your hair, our wave spray is like one of our first. products we ever created and everybody loves it no matter what your favorite product you guys have. I would say our leave in conditioner because everyone's like hydrating from head to toe, especially this year. And then I really love our hand wash and hand lotion that just came out. It looks so chic and it smells so good and it has like these biodegradable exfoliating beads.

And it was such a passion project for the team like during COVID and quarantine and it turned out so beautiful. Are you just as organized as reorganized makes it look like on her feed? or is your life not as organized? You know what's weird? My husband and I are both Pisces, and we are pretty organized. Yeah, I feel like when you have like a hectic work life, you need your home. Like we just had our house shot for AD and it was like looking at it from like everybody else's perspective, it's so cream and beige and white and like nothing's going on because

it just makes us feel calm. And with Ria, we organized shout out. she is so incredible at like putting everything in its right place and and we've been able to keep it up which I'm so happy about. I love the cream and nude and white vibes. Can I can I do that with a baby? Because I feel like is it possible? You know what?

So Mason Truvayay did our interior design and he has the best tip that if you have kids, you can live that life, but you need to buy outdoor furniture to have inside. Oh, that's smart because it's all resistant to the elements. Oh my God, that is such a good tip. Yeah, that is a good tip. We have this chihuahua that has this weird tick or every time he throws up, it has to be on the couch. And I'm not joking. It drives me.

It's the weirdest tick. He's never thrown up anywhere but the couch. It's not like real. It's like he like spits up. It's not like actual like chunky throw. But it's a weird, like he can't throw up anywhere. I don't know what's happening, but it's only on the couch. We either have to have outdoor couches or we got to get rid of the dog.

No, the outdoor couch is such a good tip. You just wipe it up. You cannot get rid of the dog. I know, I can't. I'll get rid of you before you get rid of the dog. That's a good tip, though, outdoor furniture. Outdoor furniture inside. And actually, there's, like, really chic, like restoration, even West Elm.

Like, they have really chic outdoor furniture. You would never know. That's a good tip. I might steal that. My redoing some things inside. Your dog will thank me later. Yeah, it's a poor dog. Is there, like, a ritual that you do in the morning at night, or is it just wake up, check my emails go?

Oh, no. Is it a whole routine? I have a whole, like, thing I do in the morning. morning. Jingle bells, jingle bells. It's the holidays. What are you getting people for Christmas, Michael Bostick? This year, I think I'm going to get them a class with Skillshare. Ooh, I feel like my whole entire family will love that. The gift that keeps on giving, go and learn something new. Learn a new skill, everybody. That is such a good gift. Instead of getting your aunt Susie some kind of pan or, you know, your dad, that new pair of slippers, get them the gift that keeps on giving. A skill, a skill they can

use to go and buy themselves 80 pans on 100 slippers. You know what? I'm not going to get my dad those flannel pajamas. You just inspired me. So Skillshare. What is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people. You can explore new skills, deepen existing passions, and get lost in creativity. Talk about a great platform for 2020. I mean, you know, so many people have been at home, more time on their hands. Many students are sitting at home, not being able to go to school. Skillshare is the answer for you. They have so many courses like Lauren said. One of my favorites is a course by Greg McKeown. He's been on this show. He wrote a book called Essentialism and it teaches you how to be more productive. I would definitely

check out that class. In addition to that class, they have classes on how to build websites, how to be a better photographer, how to do graphic design, how to start a podcast, how to manage your time, how to invest. Basically, they have a skill for everything taught by people like you and me. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning. So I'm going to tell you, pre-pandemic, just like chasing the day as always. I went, and this is a whole other podcast, but I went to the Hoffman Institute, like around this time last year. And so like I figured out a

schedule. For the first time in my life, I actually am not like on a plane twice a week. And I'm home. And I was like, I need a routine. I just Googled habit tracker. Printing. habit tracker and started using that to just like make sure that like I'm doing my gratitude journal. I use five minute journal I love. I do the Hoffman Institute's meditations in the mornings and like even drinking water remembering to drink water like I keep it all on my habit tracker and it's really I'm 11 months in now and it's been such a game changer. So I now have my mornings are so planned. It's actually in my phone every day. It's so I'm so cheesy. But I do gratitude journal, take the dogs, out, have coffee, meditate, shower, get ready. And then I now, instead of like being on my phone

on my computer and then like all the different things at once, like so many screens and constantly being disrupted, I now will take my phone and put it into airplane mode for 90 minute segments. And that's when I do emails and actually like get work done, zooms, whatever I need to do. And then take a break, do another chunk of like creating content in the afternoon. But I have it all on my calendar mapped out. So now I have like a full routine. Can you explain what how like so I've talked to one of my business partners went to Hoffman and had an like what he says was an incredible experience. It just burnt something that didn't they burn? Didn't we lose? It just burned. Yeah, but they've moved locations so they're up and running. Can you explain that experience and like to somebody who's

unfamiliar with what Hoffman is like what it can potentially do for for someone? Tell you the book would have never happened had I not gone to Hoffman. You know, I felt finally at a place where I was like, okay, I loved Hoffman and I'm like, I feel like a grownup now. And I feel like I can actually like share the tips that I got there. And also, you know, from my journey being a celebrity hairstylist and a business owner and like put it all together. So the book isn't just about, you know, celebrity. It's not just about business building and mentorship and all that. It's also about like taking care of yourself and spirituality and all the things.

So Hoffman, I will tell you going into it, it's a week. You give them your phone. You don't have your phone for a week. No electricity at all, right? What is Hoffman for someone that doesn't know? Because I don't know what it is. Katie Perry might have gone there. Is that who?

Does that where I heard about it? Yeah, Katie told me about it. Okay, I think I saw it in an interview. So what is it, though, exactly? I don't want to even say retreat because it's not like you're getting pampered. It is a, God, it's called the Hoffman process. And basically, it's a psychotherapy camp. So you go and you give them your phone for a week.

And I can't divulge too much about what you do. But I will say this. it, to sum it up, it's 10 years of therapy in one week. And I am a therapy goer. Like my husband and I both have, like, that's the one thing I can tell everyone. If you're in a relationship, go to therapy because it just helps you to like bring the best out of each other. So my husband's been a Hoffman. It really helped me to realize the bad things I was doing in my life that like I was a slave to my own busy schedule and getting validation from work and not, being connected to my family like I used to be, just so many different things that, like,

I couldn't really sit without my distractions and without, like, my busyness and the schedule and, like, look at myself and, like, think, okay, so some of the things I do, I learn from my parents. And, like, before I have kids, I don't want to pass it on to my kids, so let's figure it this out. And it's, we've had several friends and family members and members from our team go, and it's been awesome to watch everyone kind of come out. Did you go with your husband really quick? You cannot go with anyone that you know. Okay.

Let me ask you this. So like, and this is kind of what I asked my partner and we were talking about it. Say, like I know I probably have a lot of issues that I got to work through, but I would say also at the same time that I'm a fucked up person that's also high functioning, right? Like I feel like, you know. I got that vibe from you. Yeah. Like I'm kind of like out there.

But I also feel like things are going well. Like business is going well. Like I'm okay in a relationship. Got a good child. And so I feel like I'm functioning, even though I may have issues that I got to figure out. Going into a Hoffman, I think the fear would be from someone like me. It's like, what if you strip away the things that make you function while you're going into like whatever trauma or anything you got to work through your head?

Does it do that or is it like more like it amplifies the good things and gets rid of the bad? Like kind of just trying to understand it in that way. I'll tell you this. For that week, you are in small groups. You also have a big group that you, and I don't want to make it sound like it's like a rehabilitation center because it's not. but you don't talk about your actual name. No one knows your actual name and no one knows what you do for a living.

You're not allowed to talk about that because that is that mask that we wear of like our job. Oh my God. That sounds amazing. And you, yeah. So really, and it's not about networking. None of those things. It really is about. No one's an opportunist trying to like.

No, no. But you go in there. I remember being like, what am I doing here? I actually have the best life. Like I shouldn't be complaining about anything. This is crazy. and I left being like, oh my God, I was so fucked up. That's what I'm scared of.

But no, it feels good because they give you the tools to like recognize. To deal with it. Oh my God. Like I used to like be that person that like never. And again, like Mormonism. There was definitely a lot of perfectionist patterns for me. And I was a person that like never lost my shit. And I was like, oh, everything's totally fine.

Pheasantville, you know. And then would like burst because the anxiety just hit a level. And now I feel like I'm so glad I went. I think, you know, this year has brought out the best and the worst. And I think it's like had us all sitting and really reflecting and looking at ourselves. And it is uncomfortable for sure. I will tell you that. It's not easy.

Like I wanted to leave twice. It's not easy. But when you go through it, you just feel like, oh, my God, I'm an adult. I actually, like, I was 40. And I'm like, I feel like an adult. And I love my parents in a way I never have before. And it's just really, really amazing. You kind of generally spoke about something.

Is there other little things that you noticed about yourself? It could be something so little, like something so micro. Like, what were like some things that you saw that you kind of got through that have made you come to the other side? Like you said, for instance, you wrote your book. Like, what was holding you back from writing your book in the first place? It's interesting. Harper Collins actually, I had my first meeting with them and they pitched the idea and I was like, I don't really have a story to tell. Like I am not, you know, Phil Knight's shoe dog.

Like, I, you know, I felt like, what do I know? And as I started going, so I basically, after Hoffman was like, stay off your phone, be more present, be centered. Let's like really look and take time to reflect on your journey because I haven't had that time. You know, even running a business, like, and you guys know this as well. It's like you never really get to celebrate the wins because you're constantly thinking about new innovation, new, new, new, what's going to happen in like six months, eight months. And I was just planes, trains, and automobiles and Cannes Film Festival, Metball commercials, so many things were going on. And I have not had time to stop and reflect on my journey.

And so when I went through BlackBerry photos from 2006 to present day every year, I'm so organized. I wrote down every job I've ever done. And like the photographer I worked with, it's so weird. And I went through that and like reflected on what I've learned from clients and just it just flowed. It just all the stories and everything just came together and it was so, so therapeutic. What is your book about?

Tell us why someone should buy it. What value do you think people are going to get out of it? I would say the book is a coming of age story. You know, it's kind of like, I keep joking that it's like the Book of Mormon on Broadway mixed with like Romeo and Michelle, but also like a Ryan Murphy, you know, show. I don't know. It's really, it's, it's, it's. a guide to help you skip the line. And it's something that I wish existed when I moved to L.A. in

2000. You know, I felt like I needed all of this advice. And it's also, you know, done with like a touch of humor so it doesn't get boring. Is there something micro, like a little story you can tell us in the book that you, that just do you think that people just want to know more? Yeah, I'll tell you a couple actually. We touched on this by talking about being a woman, not having like any sort of degree and raising capital and having those like weird dates with like venture capitalists and private equity guys. And then I- Which is really, really fucking hard. Yeah, it's intimidating and also kind of, you know, annoying because a lot of times I was spoken to in a condescending way. And I remember just being like, okay, just grin and bear it. I tell a story about when I was young.

So Mormons give up 10% of their income every year for tithing. So that goes to help the less fortunate and the church. And I didn't realize once I got baptized that my parents have, they do like a family meeting with your bishop at the end of the year and talk about how much each family member has given for the year. I had been giving empty envelopes, saving my money to buy like, hello kitty erasers and probably John Stamos like T-shirts or whatever. And my parents found out and that was like, you know, that's when they were like, okay, we got to figure this out. Another fun tidbit, I go into the Dave Matthews band story. And you guys, it's, I can't make this up and I hope he doesn't take a restraining order out. But the reason I moved from L.A. to, or sorry, from St. George,

Utah to L.A. was because of Dave Matthews. I got to meet him on a movie set. And he was like, playing guitar for my friends and I. And he was like, like, what do you guys want to be? And she's like, I want to work in fashion. I'm like, I want to work in beauty. And he's like, you totally should. and I was like, what? Yes, he's right. Dave Matthews gave me the courage to follow my dreams. And that is why I'm here today. Dave Matthews crash into me.

Remember that song? That is the best song when you're just vibing in the car. Oh, yeah. Like in high school when I got my like brand new like Ford Explorer and like drive me. So sexy. Port Explorer. Crash into me Dave Matthews band. Her license plate said, Daddy bought it.

I got it. No. Yes, it was horrible. Did it really? Projectile. And I was dating this girl at the time and she pulled up and like this weird being bad. We're married now so I feel like the girl's forgiven me. She's married now. It's kids.

And like her car that said it said love for lore on the license plate and then the bracket said daddy got it. I bought it and it was parked right in front gave us a fully away. Yeah, I think that she was pretty mad. Oh my God. It was a very distinctive Ford Explorer. It was a very, with a heart crystal like hanging in the mirror. That, by the way, it was enough for me to, I would lose my shit if I was like, girl, a heart crystal. It's horrible.

It was pink. It was on brand. Okay. If you were giving advice to our audience, as Michael said, there's a lot of millennials. And they're just starting out. And obviously with the pandemic, there's a lot happening. What advice? What are a couple of tips that you would say?

Oh, God. I would say, try not to lose your momentum and to not lose side of your goals. Like we might have had a hiccup. There's been a pause. I think this year has not been about making money, but it's been about, like I said, again, like self-reflection and really connecting, I think, having an emotional connection with people in your life

because we can't hug and see each other. It's like, it's been hard. But I would say this. This is kind of another reason why I wanted to write the book is in high school, we don't really learn about finances and about, like, how to invest. We don't really learn about like what stocks are or, you know, how to budget your life. and I remember being in a lot of credit card debt when I moved here because my family,

literally I know it sounds so cliche, but like I had $300 when I came here. So it's like I was living off of credit cards. There's a whole story about that, how to get out of that credit card debt. And if you're not great at handling your own money, hire someone that is. So like that's my biggest tip is hire a bookkeeper if it's a friend that you can pay, whoever it is. I remember getting audited for like $45,000 and I was probably 26 at the time because hairstylists are incom fluctuate so much.

And I remember being like, holy shit, what am I going to do? Like, I don't have this money. That's the year that I hired my business manager. And, you know, I would just say, like, don't try to be good at all the things if you're not, you know, like outsource and get creative. It's a real disservice that they don't teach kids more about finances. Because even for me, like, and I've always been kind of more of a numbers guy, but like, it wasn't until the last like three or four years that I started getting a real handle on it and like understanding money. Tell her the book you read that change.

I do think that every, I mean, it sounds cheesy. No, that's a great book. But I think honestly for like an in-depth but also understandable and digestible explanation around money and index funds and savings and stocks and like how you set up like, you know, even how you set up your 401ks and like all the little things or how you participate in a company 401. Okay. Tony Robbins book Money Master, the game is long, but it's really, really good. And I think young people should, like, I think it should be taught. Because what he did is he spent a few years going and interviewing, like, all the top money managers around the country and basically just making it digestible so young people could understand how to take care of their finances. Today's podcast is brought to you by Tony Robbins.

It's a good, you know, like. And Hoffman. It's out of all the things he's done, like, that's the thing that I point to the most, because it is really digestible and it gives an understanding. And you're just not taught this in school. That's so smart, honestly. I remember my dad would like sit me down and give me like fake contracts to sign for like my car and insurance just so I kind of got into the rhythm. But really though, I feel like I just did not, I was not prepared for like building a life and then, you know, having money to invest in business. And it really is, that is really smart to

read. I love Tony Robbins. He's great. I mean, and I think even in line with rich dad, poor dad, like in paying yourself first. I think that's a concept people don't get. And like, when you say paying yourself, like putting that money aside to save to invest in the business or future, before you even pay your taxes or take on expenses or your rent, like you've got to set something aside. I think it's a hard concept for people to grasp. Totally. I mean, I joked with my business manager early on because I was like, I'm essentially paying you part of my income to do what like my parents did in high school, like give me an allowance, teach me about like savings. And it really is funny because I remember the first year with them, I'd like sneak my credit card

to buy things because I needed to be flossy and feel validated by wearing like cool things that I couldn't afford. And I remember my business manager is like you do know like you're stealing from yourself. I was like, yeah, okay, I'm going to stop doing that. But don't you feel like for young, I might need a business manager. Geez. For everybody though, especially young, I think especially this year, everybody's so anxious about their finances because like you said, it's been a really difficult year to make ends meet and make money. A lot of people are hurting. But don't you feel like once you understood finance a little bit more that it became much less scary? Like once you understood money, like, because I think people don't understand and don't know. So they're overwhelmed and shocked and

scared about what's going on with their finances. But if you just understood it and take the time to learn about it, it's become much less scary. I mean, guys, it really is true that like money can be the root of all evil. It can like, you can get obsessed with it. It can take over your life when you have a lot of it. It's an issue. And I think like not having it, but also like standing in your own way is a problem. And my shout out to Melissa Morton, a gal fan. That's my businessman. of probably 13 years now, she has a whole part in a chapter where she gave her tips for people that are just starting out. I need to read that part.

What's your favorite Kardashian? I can't answer it, Chloe. I thought you were going to say Chris. Oh, for sure. Come on. You know what? There would be no Chloe without Chris. What I like about the Kardashians, Scotty has been on this podcast twice.

And this is what I like about them. They made glam its own, like, I don't want to say entity, but like they, like branded glam and they started bringing them in front of the camera. And I feel like a lot of people have tried to make it seem like they effortlessly look like this. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like the Kardashians normalized it. Oh, for sure. Listen, I lived it.

My life has been changed because of it. I posted about this on stories the other day because it really is true. Like, I get sad when people don't give credit to their glam squad. because they really do work hard. And yes, they get paid. But also it's just like we live in a world now where Instagram is changing lives. And like you tagging that person, I can say first and foremost, like my life was changed because of that small bit of shine and gratitude that they would give us.

And it really is so important, I think, to support artists. I agree. I think it's so cool too. Like so many people are blowing up. It's so cool to see all, like you said, you never know. what can happen when you tag someone. So tag your glam squad. Yeah. Tag a glam squad today. Tag a glam squad today. Even if you don't work with them, tag them. Where can everyone find you? Where can everyone find your book? Where can they buy it? Pimp yourself out. Tell us your websites.

Everything. Oh my God. Okay. So if you want to learn more about me, you can follow me at Jen Ackin-Hare on Instagram, Twitter, all the things. The book, you can go to Harper Collins. I have a whole link for all the places you can get it worldwide. It's called a landing page. And it's sold wherever books are sold. Like, please support independent bookstores this year. They need it so much. But you can find us like Barnes & Noble, Target, Amazon. Blowing my way at the top is the title.

And then I also have at the way is the lifestyle brand, beauty brand. And at Maine Addix is another company that I have that is helping to support hairstylist and working kind of a younger audience. And we have younger stylists that work with us that are doing really cool, like how-toes and content and stuff. So main addicts is more content driven and way is obviously the product. And then for your Instagram, what can we expect there? Like what's the what are your stories? What's your vibe? What's your brand? You know, I kind of cleaned things up like three months ago. I was like, I'm just really, I felt a little scattered. So I was like, I need to like be a little bit more elevated and

elevate my content. So you will see what you want to see because I ask people they want to see on my page. It's going to be tutorials on reels. I've been having so much fun with that. I love kind of showing just my everyday on stories. And then the grid is, it's going to get, it's going to get a little flossy here and there, but also educational. You know what I think would crush it for you? This is just like my own, like thinking. Did you see the Instagram just recently's guides? Have you seen that? Oh, I fully have like 12 of them made already. Oh, okay. Overachiever. I feel like that's going to crush it for you. I don't even have the, teacher. Yeah, you got to get it. Well, for what you do, I was just thinking, like, there's so many

guides you can create. More content, though. I know, but you know, guides, I'm so, because I love to organize things. Guides for me. You love a good guide, huh? I, like, have holiday guides. I even have, like, a charity tab I posted yesterday, so you can give the gift of giving to someone that needs it. And how do you do that on your stories? It's in my guides. It's a guide. Okay. I'm going to show you. I'm going to look at your guides. I'm subliminally telling you to get on the guides. I have been wanting you to come on the podcast for so long. I'm so happy that you finally got to come on, come back anytime. Blowing my way to the top, how to break the rules, find your purpose and create the life and career you deserve.

Thank you so much for coming on. And thank you, Harper Collins for letting me call it that. Yeah, Harper Collins. It's a great title. It's a great title. It's a conversation piece. I love it. Thank you for coming.

Thank you. This is so fun. Hold up, wait, don't go. Do you want to win a copy of Jen Adkins' new book? blowing my way to the top. All you have to do is tell us who you want to see next. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode with Jen on my latest Instagram at The Skinny Confidential. And one of you will win her new book. It is so major. It is so cute. And it's perfect for your coffee table. Thanks so much for listening. And we will see you next time. This episode is brought to

you by a ritual. You guys know I'm a human guinea pig and I'm still here taking ritual and loving it. Okay? It's filled with iron, vitamin E, magnesium, folate, and omega-3. kind of everything. It's made in the USA without synthetic fillers. 95% of women do not get the vitamins and minerals they need on a daily basis, so Ritual created a smarter vitamin with the nine essential ingredients women lack most. Go to ritual.com slash skinny today to choose clean ingredients backed by science. Sign up now at ritual.com slash skinny. This episode is brought to by Skillshare. So Skillshare. What is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and

curious people. You can explore new skills, deep in existing passions, and get lost in creativity. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning.