The Bossticks - Kenzie Ziegler On Dance Moms, Mental Health, Family Dynamics, & How To Navigate Social Media In A Healthy Way

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

#600: Today we're sitting down with Dance Moms alum, Mackenzie Ziegler. Kenzie is an American singer, actress, former dancer, and internet personality. Today Kenzie joins us on the show to discuss all things Dance Moms, being placed in the spotlight at 6 years old, and what it's like growing up under the Hollywood microscope. She talks about her relationship with the other cast members, how her family dynamic evolved over the years, and why she decided to write a song dedicated to her father. We also dive into all things therapy, growing up and making friends as a famous teenager, and what she's learned over 10+ years of being a famous kid. Lastly we dive into how today's social media atmosphere affected her & how she's dealt with trolls, fake friends, and how Dance Moms changed her life.   To connect with Kenzie click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby Use code code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off all Dreamland Baby Co items and free shipping at dreamlandbabyco.com This episode is brought to you by eBay Ensure your next purchase is the real deal with eBay Authenticity Guarantee. Everyone deserves real. Visit ebay.com for terms. This episode is brought to you by Deloloa Spritz Visit DelolaLife.com to find a store near you that carries Delola and follow @delola on instagram to learn more! Please enjoy responsibly. This episode is brought to you by Barefaced Visit Barefaced.com and use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Ring Concierge Shop fine jewelry at ringconcierge.com and use code SKINNY for 20% off your fine jewelry purchase. Offer valid until 9/14/2023.   This episode is brought to you by Westin Hotels At Westin hotels, there's amenities and offerings aimed to help you move well, eat well, and sleep well, so you can keep your well-being close, while away. Find wellness on your next stay at Westin Produced by Dear Media.  

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

I mean, I started when I was six. So I was like, why is this man with a camera in my face? I just completely, like, I did not understand what we were doing. But as time went on, of course, it got more, I got used to it. It was like, this is my life now. It got to a point where it was a lot for me because I didn't even have any time for myself even, just because it was dance, dance, dance. So I even quit dance one time just and quit the show because I was like, I can't do this anymore.

It's like a lot of pressure. But on the show, we would compete every single week, and that's not normal. Kenzie Ziegler is on the Him and Her show today. She's an American singer, actress, former dancer, and internet personality. She is 19 years old and she has built a massive following. I feel like she has like 14 million followers, a massive brand. And she is really killing it with her singing career. You may recognize her because she appeared as a child for six years on the Lifetime Reality Dance Series dance moms. To see her come on our show, as a 19-year-old blows my mind. At 19, I was showing my tits somewhere in Cabo. So props to her. In this episode, she's going to walk us through growing up in the spotlight, how she manages her business, and how she manages all of this in the spotlight, because it's a lot. Let's welcome singer and songwriter Kenzie to the Him and Her show. This is the skinny confidential, Him and Her.

Taylor, don't get excited. She's 19 years old. She just became legal, Taylor. Don't even look at her, Taylor. Don't even look at her. Okay. So we have someone I think is one of the most successful 19 year olds I've ever met. Thank you so much. The amount of success that you have had at 18, 19 years old is crazy. I was like with a fake ID on the bar half naked at your age. I love that though. Yeah, it was fun. But like I feel like what you're, doing. You're on the right path. Thank you. Thank you. I was under the bar on the floor. You were under the bar looking at my skirt. I was trying. Yeah, you were. Okay. So I would love to just, I told you off air, just tell your story. And I would love to go, Taylor makes fun of me that I say this. I would love to go all the way back. I would love to go back to your childhood before dance moms.

So talk to us about what your family dynamic was before dance moms even came about. You know, it's honestly really hard to kind of go back and remember everything just because I was so young. But my family dynamic was kind of complicated just because my mom and my dad, from when I can remember, were going through a divorce very, very young. I think I was around four years old. And it was just my sister and I in the house. But I think when I turned five is when we moved out of my dad's house and moved into just like a random home, just the three of us. And what was that like? Do you even remember at four and five years old? I don't fully remember, but I remember that it was a very hard time because I was such a daddy's girl when I was younger. So I think it was definitely more difficult for me than it was for my sister for sure.

I have a three-year-olds and I sometimes look at her and I'm like, is she going to remember this period? And I could never figure it out because I can't remember being three. They probably just remember like feelings and emotions, you know, like not specific things. Totally. I remember core memories, like just important memories when I was younger. So when you moved in with your mom and your sister and your dad was away, was that easy? Was it difficult? It was hard because I still didn't really understand what was going on just because when you're four, like you don't understand divorce. And all I just remember was just my dad not being there and it was just really strange. And I didn't see him that much. So. And what about your sister? Are you close at this point? My sister and I are best friends, yes. But she was the one that would like constantly get me ready for school when I was. was younger and like when my mom was at work she would pour my cereal for me and like she my sister was she's always mentally been way older than she is like she seriously was like my second mom it was

really awesome what's the gap in age we're 20 months apart oh wow close oh super close very very and is she still like that today yes yes even more now than she was before so at what point do you start really getting into dance we both started dancing when we were two years old Very, very young. Because of your mom or your dad. My dad actually went to college with my dance teacher. So we kind of decided to go to dance because of how he knew her. And also my mom just loved how we looked in a tutu. So, of course.

Do I need to get my daughter into dance immediately? Yes. I took her to dance class and she like was off in the corner doing her own dance. Like not the dance, not the dance. No, I loved it. I loved it too. It was hysterical. She's off in the corner making up her own thing

Like I don't even know what she was doing She might not have even been dancing She gets up from me That's what I used to do in school I would just kind of be off in the corner doing my own thing Were you guys taking dance really seriously When you were really little

Or was it something that sort of evolved It kind of evolves I mean when you're like two Of course you've seen like You kind of just like don't really learn anything It's more just fun And we started with like tap and acro So we would just like have little tap shoes

And we had so much fun But Maddie took it very very seriously when she was around like six. I never fully took dance seriously. I feel like it was more of, you know, all of my friends were there. I also wasn't,

I was homeschooled for most of my life. So that was like my main. Oh, what's that like? I want to talk about that actually. You know, I, it's a hard question because I loved being homeschooled.

I mean, my sister was like my only classmate and we got to go in our PJs and like go at any time. And, you know, my stepdad was like my teacher. So it was like very, it was very nice to have, like a one of teacher that like kind of helps you through everything. But I did miss out on, you know, all the school things like football games, homecoming. But were you able to go be social

at those kind of events or because you're homeschooled, you're not able to go? You are able to go if, of course, you have friends there. So I attended some football games, but it wasn't the full experience, you know? And most, most people would be like, who, why is she here? Like, who is this person? From an education standpoint, do you feel like you got a proper education or do you feel like? Yeah, because you know, I think like there's a lot of people are debating the homeschool route these days where I feel like back when you did it, it was still a little, I mean, we all started being homeschool way back in the day. And then everyone started going to school. But this is becoming more popular now. A lot of parents are talking about this, especially because people are trying to figure out school choice and what curriculum they want for their kids to learn. But I always wonder like, one, the social aspect, if you feel you got it. And two, like from an education standpoint, if you feel you got maybe a better education or.

You know, I, we went to school till I was in third grade. So, but we actually got kicked out of school because we missed so many days of school because of dance. Because dance kind of consumes your whole entire life. So we got kicked out of school. Then we did home, we did homeschool. But we started online, which was the easiest thing ever. Like, I swear I cheated through the whole fourth grade. Like, it was so simple.

And I just felt like I wasn't learning anything. And my stepdad, like I'm very lucky. He was, he was retired. So he started teaching us. And I, he was so smart and he really helped me. And it's kind of nice like knowing your teacher on that kind of level. Yeah, I feel like I got a better education. I did like two grades in one year. Like I, I, you get like a ton of personal attention. Yes, of course. It's so nice. Like having that like hands on attention for sure. And I guess you can like kind of pick the curriculum to follow. What do they do? They just go through what I guess the required curriculums are to get credits. Right. Because you still get credits to go to college if you want. Right. Yes. Of course. Yeah. I did all. I did everything that I would be doing in school. So I kind of I did textbooks. I did all of the text books. I did all of the text. books I would be doing in school. No, I think I mean, honestly, we're parents. And I think, especially now with school safety and all sort of, like, people really like question where they want to put their kids. Absolutely. It's like kind of scary times when a kid's in school.

I am very lucky, honestly, that I didn't go to school because I would be terrified for sure. So there's pros and cons. There's pros and cons. Okay. At what point does the dance mom's, the dance mom's producer approach you or your mom? How does that even work? It's honestly really funny, but basically the dance world on the East Coast is like pretty huge and take it very, very seriously. There's crazy moms everywhere on the East Coast. So they went around to a bunch of different studios. They wanted to create a show on, you know, dance, dancing, but it was supposed to be a documentary. So they went around with a bunch of studios and our moms were the craziest.

So they went with our studio and we, they interviewed everyone at our studio. They picked us. We were super excited because we thought it was just going to be a docu series. And then the first episode we were filming ended up, there was a fight between two moms. And so they made it into a reality show that day. And so help me through this, guys. So the moms are fighting because they are competitive and they want their kids to be the stars. Is that essentially summing it up?

They want the best outfit. They want the best hair and makeup. They want their kid to have a solo. The leg to kick the high. I mean, I could lie to you and pretend I was regularly tuning in. It's not, I just, maybe I was not the target. Now that I, so I have a weird thing. We should do dance dads.

No. I agree. I agree. I have a weird thing. When people come on the show, this show, if I haven't seen their show, I almost can't watch it, but now that I've met you, now I might have to watch it. It's the same thing with like people from reality shows come on or docuseries. Right.

Now that I know you, now I'm like, okay, now I have like a connection point to the show. Totally. So I'll be tuning into dance. Oh my gosh, please no. But I honestly was, I was like six years old. So I look very different than I do now. You mentioned that your mom was crazy. Why was your mom crazier than the other moms?

My mom was not the craziest one. She was that. I will say. No, she, I think the reason why people thought she was so crazy is she just wanted the best for us always. That's not so crazy. What's the base level crazy? Like if you're,

if you're rating your mom one to ten, compared to the other moms. I think, I think there were a few moms on the show that like obviously we still talk to. I mean, when we were younger, the producers would obviously like make them yell at each other. whatever, but sometimes like the moms would get in fist fights. Sometimes the mom would like throw drinks at one another.

Like they would, they just fight over their kids and who's better constantly. So like there was this one episode where like they were in New Orleans and like one of the moms like throws a drink on the other one. Mothers are fist fighting on this show? Oh yeah. Now I'm definitely tuning in. Oh yeah. I'm seeing it.

I mean, I get it. I've never seen like a full episode. So I feel like I need to go back and watch it just for that. Okay. So outside of just the dancing, it's also the drama of these mothers that want their children. to be the best. Yes, absolutely. Dance moms.

Got it. Yeah. Haven't you seen like cheerleading moms? It's like pageant moms. Yeah. They're like, it's almost a little bit to me and correct me if I'm wrong that the mom's almost living vicariously through the child.

Most of the time. Did you feel like that or was it not like that with your mom? My mom, no. My mom never wanted to be a dancer and she never really thought that we were going to be doing it professionally. But my sister was like really wanting. wanted to pursue it. I was just there for the fun of it, you know. So looking back, it sounds like you're happy with how your mom handled it because she just wanted the best for you and had good

intentions. Absolutely. Yes. And did those, did that, I mean, it obviously worked out because look where you are now. Right. I mean, she obviously was on the right trajectory. What about the other moms that were like crazy and fighting? How did their kids turn out? Are they amazing? They're all amazing. Yes, they're so amazing. You know, most of them are, you know, went to college and, and, and, started becoming like a normal kid, which I totally understand. And yeah, we still talk to, we still talk to all of them. We're still very close. My mom, like, has a podcast with all the moms. So it's like, yeah, it's hilarious. So they all podcasts together? They all podcast together. And it's great. It's honestly so great. I bet it's funny. It is funny. Because now they're like

so past the point and they just like all love each other because we have like all grown up with each other basically. What was it like having all these producers in your ear at such a young age? Did you think it was weird at the time or just normal? I mean, I started when I was six. So I was like, why is this man with a camera in my face? I just completely like, I did not understand what we were doing. But as time went on, of course, it got more, I got used to it. It was like, this is my life now.

And did you still be homeschooled while you were doing this? So you're homeschooling or doing dance. What was like a big epiphany or break that happened when you were on the show? It got to a point where it was a lot for me because I didn't even have any time for myself even just because it was dance, dance, dance, dance. So I even quit dance one time just and quit the show for like two days because I was like, I can't do this anymore. It's like a lot of pressure and especially competition is very hard.

But on the show, you know, we would compete every single week and that's not normal for an actual dancer. It's like once every few months. You said you quit, but every single day did you wake up and were you like, dreading it or was it something that you really loved? I definitely did dread it for sure. Yeah, it seems like to do that all the time when you're that little, it's essentially like you have a full-time job. Of course. Yes, totally. So looking back, would you recommend, like would you want to put your kids through this or no? Dance, I think yes. I definitely, when I have kids later, later, later in

life, I would definitely put them into dance. In like 20 years. In like 20 years, not right now. But I feel like honestly, dance, just kind of being in that world. has made me mature, has taught me a lot of things and taught me how to stand up for myself as well because the dance world is like crazy. Like other girls are mean. So I feel like I got like tough skin from it. So I, yeah, I would recommend it. When you started to get recognized from the show, was that a trip? It was so weird. How old were you when this happens? Six. Oh, so it's really weird. Yeah, I was in school. I was in school for like the first year of it. And it was like so weird seeing all my friends be like obsessed with me.

Like it was just like, wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, what do you mean? It was so weird. Just because the show like blew up so fast and I didn't even know really what was going on. But then, you know, everyone would be like, so what's this? And ask all these questions and all these questions. And I would just be like, wait, you watch the show? Like, you actually watch the show?

Like, this is crazy. That is a trip. Yeah. So people like doing things for the wrong reasons are just being really intrigued by you. I think they were just really intrigued by it. just really intrigued. I mean, we were so young that they were probably just like, this is so cool that you're on a show, you know? it's interesting we've met so many people doing this and there's a certain thing like if you reach a certain level of notoriety you almost like people just a lot of people don't know how to treat that person in the way that they would treat other like people that maybe don't have those platforms and people behave differently around people with those kind of platforms and it's like you know being on the receiving end of that at times like it's it's awkward because at the end of the day you realize like everybody's just a person just some people have a little bit more of I guess like a platform or or But it's weird because I think people just don't know how to engage around people that have that level of exposure.

Completely. I totally got why people were so weird with me when I was so good. As that's evolved and you've gotten older and you've gotten even more followers and you've gotten even more famous, how do you sort of like gatekeep that? I feel like for me, I'm very, it's just been my life. Yeah. Like really? My whole life is on the internet. So I feel like very okay with it. And I feel like I'm very authentic with my followers or whatever you want to call them. Like I feel like they know everything about me, which I think is really cool because most of them have grown up watching the show and are watching what I'm doing now. And they're, you know, my age.

And it's really, it's really awesome. Throughout the show being on, how did your relationships with all your family members evolve? It was a hard dynamic with my family because, of course, they didn't understand. And from just being little kids to being just like on one of the biggest like TV shows, it was like very weird for them. And they also just felt kind of awkward reaching out because I feel like they thought that we had this ego that we were better than them, which never. Like it's a reality show. Like it's not, you know. That's interesting. I've never heard anyone say that, but that makes so much sense. So instead of over reaching out and being like all up your ass, they were complete opposite and they stopped reaching. out because they thought you had an ego and that you wouldn't want to hear from them. Of course. Huh. Is it still like that now? No, I feel like, you know, we've definitely grown closer to our family now, but it was just like a weird dynamic. And it was just like when we would go to like Thanksgiving, it was like kind of awkward

just because they were like, they probably don't want to be here or whatever. So that makes total sense. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's opposite of what you normally hear, but that makes a lot of sense. What about with your dad? Were you able to stay in touch with him while you were filming the show? Yeah, he would sometimes come to our like dance competitions to support, but he, it's slowly and slowly as we got older, kind of just no communication really. He chose to kind of just not come around anymore. Yeah, I mean, my family is like a complicated dynamic where like I have like eight other siblings. So they've, he's been remarried like three times.

So he has like a whole new family. Yeah, yes. And you guys were the first ones? So my dad was married before he met my mom and had two boys. And then now, you know, my mom married him. And so then it was the four of us. And then he remarried has three kids. But my stepdad had two kids before he married my mom.

So if that, when I explain this to people, they're like, can you repeat that? So there's nine total. Yes. Yeah. But your dad has seven kids. Yes, basically. Yes. Got it, got it.

Four real kids. But yes. like three stepkids got it i think i think i got it it's i know right it is complicated it is complicated so so during dance moms did you know that you were sort of building the brand that you have today obviously you were six but as it went on did you know that you were building something like bigger absolutely not no idea no how did it go on like when when you finished all this like what what age were you i was 12 okay so we yeah we left we left earlier than the rest of the show ended. Like, we were just like, we can't do this anymore.

Yeah, but it's smart to leave the party early. Of course, I know, right? It's hard to leave the party early. So when you leave, you have this social platform. And when did you know that this is going to be a massive thing that it is today? I mean, you have 14 million followers on Instagram. Like, it's crazy. It is crazy to me still. It is crazy. I still, I don't think I really ever like was like, I'm going to be massive. I feel like it was more just like, this is genuinely my life. Like, it's just been my life for so long that it just felt normal to me. Like, I, yeah, I don't know. It felt super, super normal. And after we left the show, it kind of made us have just more fun with, like, reacting, like, interacting with people and doing more things and, like, doing

brands and just, like, doing a bunch of things that we wouldn't be able to do on the show because we were so busy all the time. So when did you start sort of adding in the singing? And, adding in what you're doing with American Eagle. Like what you are, you're obviously building a brand and being thoughtful and purposeful about it. When did you start to do all these things? When I was on the show, they actually put me into like making a music project when I was like eight years old, which was like I had still, I had no idea what I was doing. So I, I loved singing. So they kind of just like put me into that.

But when I, I stopped for a while after the show because I just thought, you know, I probably only did this because of the show. I don't think it's actually a passionate of mine. But when I turned like 13, I realized that it's something I really wanted to do. Just because I love sharing my story in like a different way and being relatable. And I feel like music is kind of like therapy for me. So it's, I don't enjoy therapy as much. All right. I'm going to tell you something that changed the game when it comes to sleeping for my son.

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near you that carries Dulola. And you can also follow at Dulola on Instagram to learn more. Please enjoy responsibly. How does one even start going about a singing career? I mean, you said you started when you're 13, you're 19 now. So it's taken a lot of work, clearly. Yeah. How did you even start to put those pieces together? You know, I got signed to a label very, very young when I was 13, I think.

And they kind of just like put me in a bunch of sessions with people. And I was meeting new people. I was making so much music. And it was kind of difficult because I was so young that it was kind of like a scary. it was a whole new environment because I'm so used to the dance industry that the music industry is completely different. So yeah, that's kind of how I started. I left them as of now, but I was with them for quite a while. When you get signed to a label, is that like, we were talking to somebody else about this on the show. What kind of relevancy do they play in your career now? Because, I mean, things have changed so much where like literally you could just create something and share it with your 14 million people right away.

Like, so do you, what do they do for you specifically at this point? They basically put you on playlist. they get you in rooms with different, you know, writers and producers. And they overall just push everything just a little more because, of course, social media can do so much. But now, like, TikTok is a thing where it's like, if your song blows up on there, then it will blow up outside of TikTok. But, you know, they... Is that the goal now? People try to get stuff on TikTok and have it blow up?

I guess so. I mean, I'm honestly not, like, I love TikTok, but it's kind of, it's weird for me just because when I was younger, music would just be. you would go buy someone's CD and play it all the time. And it was like that kind of thing. You would just support one person. But now it's like there's so many new artists, which I think is really cool. But it's just like a different thing. It's like Taylor Swift songs, I feel like whenever they're on TikTok,

it does blow up way bigger than I think it would if there wasn't TikTok. Totally. It's weird, huh? But no, you're right there. Like we used to go buy albums. Right. You know, I used to go to the warehouse and buy CD. And I used to have my no skip disc jockey thing.

What is no skip disc disc? You know, like, people don't even remember this. It's you put the CD in there. Taylor, remember these things? And if you hit it, you were like fancy if you had one that didn't skip when you were playing it. Mine skipped. I never noticed it. Yeah, you had the, you had that crusty version. I had the, I had the no skip. The crusty version. You could drop this thing on the cement and still be, still be good. But you listen to like the whole album. Right.

Now I feel like a lot of it is just like listening to one song, right? Yeah, of course. So many. What is it like coming from the East Coast to Hollywood? It was definitely very weird for me. Jarring, huh? Yes, because where I lived, it's very, everyone knows each other. It's like very small town. And so when I came here, also, I always tell people this because I think it's so funny. When we first moved here, we thought Hollywood Boulevard was like the only thing in L.A.

So like we only went to. No, I get that. Like, you think that that streets like the like famous street. Yes, it's it. We're going to see celebrities walking by. And now I drive by and I'm like, this is so dirty. and like scary. Don't want to hang out up there.

Right. It's like what? But yeah, when I moved here, I honestly, of course, I was so excited because this was kind of the place to be. But we moved during the show. So we had to like live out here for like a long time. It's a weird city to break into. Right.

Like I think a lot of people struggle with this city because one, they don't realize how big it is. Right. Like New York, you can kind of bounce around and do that. Like the transportation is not great here and it's massive. And then you kind of don't really know where to go when you first. come and it's hard to find your people. I mean, you probably experience it. Of course. I think a lot of people have a much different notion of what L.A. is compared to what it actually is. Right.

I don't know how to explain it better than that. No, I get it though. Like it has a lot of the great things you think about, but it also has a lot of tough things about it. So what was that like? Was it how did you make friends? How did you break in? What do you do? I met a lot of people because, you know, our dance teacher opened a studio out here and this was when the show was really big, I And it's so weird saying that. But it was pretty big. And we had a dance studio where everyone would just come and take classes because of the show. And so there was just a bunch of random people.

And so I started making friends with kind of like kids in the industry that were doing music or acting or whatever. Because there are so many kids here like trying to make it in Hollywood. So I made a lot of friends. And I made too many friends. I feel like I was like making friends with the wrong people when I was younger. Some of those people were there for the wrong reasons. Definitely. Maybe they like saw your platform and thought, hey, I can kind of hang on here and develop something for myself.

Definitely. Or even just like, you know, there's a lot of fake people here. And I don't think I really understood that until I grew up. Like I just wanted to be friends with everyone. Well, it's a weird city. And I got to say this kindly. But it's a weird city because it's one of the only places in the world where people come with the idea that they're talented. enough to have the world watching them or listening to them or caring what they're saying. And so you get these kind of like, you know, you're not pursuing a normal career path. Like it is, it's a strange career path to come here and be like, okay, someone's going to discover me or I'm going to get in the right group and then they're going to watch me. I'm going to get in a movie or I'm going to get in a show or I'm going to get some music. It's just a weird.

Like it attracts kind of a weird person to begin with. I'm not saying we're some of those people, right? But it's not like other places like, okay, I'm going to go work in a job and work up in the company and like put in it. It's just a different thing, right? And so you have these kind of strange characters, many of which are looking for fast track opportunities. Like maybe they see you and like, oh, here's this young girl with a big platform. Like, I'm going to come in and be her friend, but it's really like trying to get something from you.

It's like it's a lot of that. So I think like it gets a reputation of a lot of fake people. But it's just because there's a lot of these kind of people that are taking this awkward career path. Of course. Well, I think that people are using three things in the city. They're either using their talent. their looks or other people. And it sounds to me you're using your talent.

Of course, you're beautiful too, but you're using your talent to get to where you want to be. And then you maybe meet up with someone who's using other people. Yes. Well, there's an element of the city that everybody comes with the mentality of like, I need to be discovered. And so if you think if you've found somebody that can help do that for you, you maybe latch onto them for a reason outside of just being their friend. Of course, of course.

That's probably a tough thing to navigate as a young girl being new to this type of city. Yes. And funny enough, my mom always knew, because moms have this weird intuition thing. My mom always knew when someone walked through our house, she would be like, Kenzie, they're not. They're not going to be good for you. And I would always just be like, what do you mean, mom? Like, what do you? I'm going to prove you wrong.

I'm going to prove you wrong. And I would always be like, you're right. Because, of course, I feel like here people grow up so fast here. So, like, you know, bad things start to happen when you're younger. But in Pittsburgh, that would never happen. So I, like, got in with the wrong crowd. I never did anything bad. But I just was, like, surrounding myself with wrong people.

And my mom always knew. Yeah, you're just exposed to a lot of here really fast. Yes. What about your sister? Is she sort of doing the same thing you're doing at this point? No, my sister has always been an angel. She has never surrounded herself with bad people. It's crazy.

She's just always been amazing. I think she, when she moved out here, she was, like, keep my circle small, which is like what you really should do. She told you to keep your circle small. And so how did you cut out anyone who was toxic? Were you just hurt with it? Or did you back away slowly? I think I backed away slowly.

I'm too nice to be. I'm like, I'm really scared of confrontation. Bethany Frankel said in this episode of Housewives, she goes, she goes instead of severing it, really like instead of cutting it, she said always back away slowly. It's easier to back away slower. Because if you just sever it, then it's like this big to-do. And I feel like if you just back off slowly, sometimes it's easier.

I agree. Yeah. Because then there's like less ego for the other person. Right. Less hatred, even, you know. Yeah. So you wrote your song about your childhood story. Talk to us about that.

You know, I started doing therapy when I was, when I first turned 18 years old. And I didn't know I had all of these feelings about my dad growing up. I feel like when I was younger, I would just kind of be like, I have daddy issues and like joke about it with my friends because, I mean, it is a normal thing that, you know, parents are divorced, but it didn't really hit me until I turned 18 and I was bawling my eyes out every day in therapy over him. It was just a weird moment. And she told me to write a letter to my dad. So I can kind of get all of that emotion out. And I did not want to do that. I felt really weird doing that. So I ended up just writing a song for her to hear. Like it was just for her to hear. And, And I ended up, like, loving it more than anything I've ever done. So it was very scary to put it out. But I honestly feel like I'm helping a lot of people as well. Has your dad heard it? Yes, he has.

And what does he say? He, you know, he actually called me about it. And we kind of didn't really talk about it. I think he was like, I heard your song. It's really pretty. Like, it's beautiful. And I was like, thank you. Do you hate it?

And he was like, I don't hate it. And he was kind of just like, there's parts that I don't like about it. But he apologized, which was like, never really heard that from him. That's kind of very cathartic. What were the circumstances that got you into therapy at such a young age? Because we talk about that a lot on the show, too. That's young to start. Yeah, I think, honestly, just like, I feel like I have a lot of anxiety.

And so, like, it got really bad at one point where my mom was like, you need to talk to someone about this. because it was getting so bad to the point where I would like drive in my car and like pass out just because I was so anxious. Does it like panic attacks? Yeah, I would just have massive panic attacks. My sister and I both are the same. Like we've just been dealing with it. And I genuinely think it's just because of us being in the public eye so young. Like it's just a lot on a young girl. And there's a lot of things that we haven't really come to terms with. I think we're just, we kind of bury it inside, which is something you should absolutely not do. Well, you know, again, we've had people with similar stories here's on the show. I think, one of the benefits that Lorne and I have had is, you know, we're almost twice your age and we kind of grew up without any of this stuff. And then as it's, as the platforms have grown, like, we're fully adults with all our faculties and we've got a lot of experiences. And so we've been able to kind of like almost curate and manage that experience. But to be in it since you're six years old and know

nothing different. I mean, I know how people are. People can be crazy and wild. And if that becomes your life, like you may think you're managing a well, but I imagine that can compound and compound and all of a sudden you're sitting there like one day like hey like I feel I think what could what would be hard there's a lot of asks from a lot of people and it's a lot of outrageous asks and it's it's almost like Chinese torture with the asks it's like this person asked this but it's like death by a thousand cuts it's like so many asks over and over and over by different people right that managing that at such a young age seems overwhelming because like michael said you don't you don't you don't have the tools that you have when you're an adult.

And people can be assholes about it. They say, well, this is what you wanted. You should be grateful, which you are on one hand grateful. But at the same time, like sometimes people don't understand personal boundary. Totally. And I think, yeah, I mean, I am so, so grateful. Like, honestly, I really am. And I'm very humble about everything that I have.

But it was just, it was hard not really having like a full on childhood. You know, like I see all of my friends, like just being normal with their friends. And I didn't really get to have that. So it was like, I felt like I really. missed out a lot in my life. You're almost mourning something that is in a way owed to you. Like a childhood it's like it should be owed to a child. Of course. So that makes sense of why it gives you anxiety. I can totally understand that. So when do you start talking to your audience about mental health issues? I started very young actually. I started talking about anxiety when I was like 13 because I feel like it was so it was just so awesome

to see other, you know, social media influencers or whatever, talk about it. And it honestly helped me so much that I felt like maybe someone else can relate to this as well and make me also feel like I'm not alone because I felt I felt like I was the only one that was having anxiety when I was younger because it wasn't talked about as much until I grew older and it's now like a thing. Thank God. There's nothing natural too about having a camera shoved in your face and producers telling you what to do. I mean, like it's very, very intense. There's nothing natural about. that. And I think growing up with that would be very, very overwhelming. It seems like you've handled

it very eloquently. And the fact that you have the awareness to go to therapy is incredible 18 years old. Do you still do therapy? Are you still, like, are you an advocate for it? Oh, I definitely think everyone should at least try therapy at least once. I mean, sometimes it doesn't work out for people. But I, it has helped me tremendously. I just am, I feel weird talking with, you know, someone that I've paid to listen to my feelings, you know? Like, I feel like they're only listening because they're being paid. And that's what that's, we're not, we're not, we're not, we're listening. No, not you. Not you. I know. I know. I'm saying, please, I will. No, you guys are great. I didn't know that payment was an option. Yeah.

No, I get that. I would, I struggle with that kind of thing. I've never done therapy. I'm not saying that I'm, listen, I don't know. You do therapy every single day with me. I'm a therapist. You should pay me. When you have friends that are your therapist, you don't need a therapist. But what I do do to your point is like I keep the circle tight. Right. Right. I feel like that's super important. I mean, a lot of times people just like especially people in your position.

We've had people come in this studio and the entourage is bigger than the, like I don't know that many people in my life. Right. It's just like, I'm like, what is going on out here? And I think that could be problematic. You got to keep it tight. But no, I mean, I can understand why it might feel strange for some people, not just you or me to get into therapy. be like you're just listening to me because it's your job when at the same time you're like burying your soul to this person. Exactly. But again, like we've had so many people come on here and talk about how beneficial

it really is. It really is. Like it helps me tremendously. Like I don't get I don't get so worked up anymore because it's just so you should talk to even if you're scared of therapy. You should talk to your mom. You should talk to your sister. You should you should talk about your feelings because I feel like bottling them up has just made me like explode, you know. But in a way I can imagine also with you and tell me if I'm wrong, you've probably felt at times where like, this is a hard thing to complain about.

And not a lot of people relate to it because it's like, here I am, I'm upset because all these people are coming up to me and I'm famous and like I'm on a show and the majority of people

from the outside are looking at that like when I'm way, too bad for you, like they would die for that opportunity because they haven't experienced it. Right. And so you're in this weird position

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Influencers are obsessed. Celebrities are obsessed. You see so many with her jewelry. I'm sure you guys have seen it on Instagram or on your for you page. And if you haven't listened to the episode with her, I learned so much about buying any kind of jewelry or buying an engagement ring. I just feel like she's a wealth of knowledge. You can check her out at ring concierge on Instagram. Shop fine jewelry at ringconcierge.com and use code skinny. You get 20% off your fine jewelry purchase. That's ringconcierge.com. shop find jewelry at ringconcierge.com and use code skinny. I am someone who travels a lot. And I'm constantly trying to be healthy when I travel, but it is a struggle. But leave it to the Weston hotels to fix this issue. Okay, you guys, first of all, they have over 200 destinations around the world and they're committed to all things wellness. So what they've done is they've made travel an opportunity to actually enhance your well-being. They have like this whole situation that's dedicated to move, eat, and sleep well. They even have a Weston workout fitness studio. It's equipped

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okay, but you're privileged and you and you blah, blah, blah, and you can pay for therapy and you have this. So you can't deal with these struggles like I do. And it's like I completely, I completely understand. Like I do have a lot going for me and I'm so blessed to like have this life. But of course, everyone goes through struggles no matter what you're doing in life. So I feel like that was hard for me to be like, maybe. I don't, maybe I am not qualified to have these issues or like maybe I can't

feel this way because I have so much you know. The privilege police though the problem with this the privilege police is that who's deciding what you're allowed and what you're not allowed to do and what box or which category of income or like there's not like a manual

for what you're, do you know what I mean? Exactly. They come out and they give you these sort of like boxes that you're allowed to be, you're allowed to have anxiety if you have this, but you're not allowed if you have this. Like, I just don't know who invented this. Personal perception is obviously very different for everybody. And there could be the same, like maybe we, Lauren and I could have the same issue. That issue could devastate her and maybe

not upset me at all. It doesn't mean that the issue to her is not important. Right. And I think people, you know, their worst experience is their worst experience where if something happens to somebody like, I don't know, I use something extreme, like the loss of a child, they're going to feel like that type of loss is out is so devastating the person complaining to that person about losing their job as no the perception is so far gone right but if the person that lost their job the worst thing that ever happened to them is that they lost their job then the still the perceived trauma is still just as strong of course so like going in from the outside and telling people what they can feel sad or mad or upset about based on your experiences is is a bit insensitive right

of course because it doesn't you know like you may you get a what I'm saying here? Yes, totally. And that's the problem with people. And also those people that say privilege, like there's people in other parts of the world that have it way worse than those people. That's what I'm saying. It's not, yeah.

It's like people in other areas of the world have it way, way harder than the people are saying that you can't feel this way. So this is like, there's this fake scale that people have just made up on the internet. The reality is, is what you said, everyone feels differently about different experiences. and you have to hold space to let people go through what they're going through without constantly attacking them privileged police. Of course. Privileged police.

How do you do? Again, and I asked this actually curiously selfishly for my own daughter, when you're that young and you're on these platforms and the world is commenting on what you're doing, how you're behaving, you know, what you're wearing, you know, what you're eating, like all of these things. Like basically the world is being a voyeur into your personal life at a young age. how are you able to kind of cipher through what to listen to and what to block out? It was really hard for me when I was younger.

I mean, when I was a teenager, like I, I, of course, was still trying to figure out who I was was and what I wanted to do and the people I wanted to surround myself with. So, of course, like, everything that I did was on the internet. Like, say I said a bad word when I was 11, like, it got exposed and then I would get in trouble and then, like, people would hate on me. Like it's, there's so much hate in the world. So it's like social media and having myself on that so young, it was really hard trying to be like, I, these people are bored and they don't mean this stuff. And they, it's, you know, they're just trying to get a reaction out of you.

Like, I feel like it took me a really long time to just come to terms with that and be like, I'm, I know who I am and I know I'm a good person. And if these people are hating on me, then they get lost, you know? Do you ever take breaks? Yes. So do I. I take breaks. I love breaks. And if I didn't have breaks, that I wouldn't have peace of mind. You have to take breaks. How do you do that? Is it something that you plan out? Is it something that you just feel day to day? I, you know, if there's like one day where I'm like, okay, this is, it's getting too much. I will just genuinely call my team and be like, okay, I'm going to take a two week break. And they're like, okay.

Two week. No Instagram stories, nothing. You know, some, it's, it just depends if I want to, if I don't. It's kind of just like from everything, from work, from, from, you know, writing sessions from, you know, anything. So you'll just say, I want to take a break from it all. Yes, all of it. And they respect that. Yes, absolutely. I mean, I've been with the same, basically with the same team since I was six years old. So, like, my manager is like my second, like one of my moms.

Like, really, she really, she knows us from the back of our hand. Like, she believes in us. And if we want a break, she doesn't want to burn us out. So she lets us take a break. Well, my thing is, too, if you're playing a long game, which you are, you're building a brand, you're becoming a singer too, you are a singer. You have all these different things that you're doing.

Absence is just as important as presence. Of course. And I think that we're about to see a huge shift with people understanding that absence is just as important. People have put such a fucking emphasis on presence and showing up to social media every day and posting on Instagram every single day that what it's doing is it's completely exhausting.

Right. And it's making people feel like they have no capacity. for anything else because they're showing up day after day after day. For me, I'm building something that's long term. And if you're going to run a marathon, you have to realize that the importance of breaks and being absent is just as important as showing up. Totally.

It's almost like an athlete. So I'm happy that that shift is about to come. I have a sideball question for you. There's a lot of new young parents listening. And I think one thing that we all think about now, which we never thought about before, is this is not going on. away, right? Like, it's busier and busier. Having the experiences that you've had, if you had your

own little one and you knew this was going to be part of their life, like, how would you navigate that for them? Or what would you allow them to do or not do? Because again, Lauren and I didn't have these things until we got out of college, right? It's like, we weren't exposed to it. And so now you think like, okay, you can't shield them from everything. Right. But at the same time, like, there's got to be some healthy balance. Do you ever think about that? I do all the time. I mean, I have my my baby cousin she was on social media she was kind of on tic-tok and she would post and she would do all these dances and everything and at like nine and and and it was like you know tic-tok for example like you can't really you don't know what's going to show up on your phone so she of course would

like be making these like cute like twerking videos and dancing and like doing all of these things and of course my her mom didn't know about it but it's just like you can't really shield your kids from that. So she obviously, we made her delete it. Like she was not allowed to have TikTok until later in life. But, you know, I feel like it's so hard to shield your kids from like the stuff now because everything is just so exposed. Like I feel like nowadays it's like there's just, it's just too much now.

What age do you think is appropriate? I was just going to ask what age is the appropriate age for a little girl to go on TikTok? Oh my gosh. 25. Yeah, I'm like 13, 12? like 11? I don't know. Like it's, it's crazy. I feel like Instagram is kind of different where like you can follow people, you know what I'm saying? Like it's kind of generated to your own liking a bit. But the problem that I have with it is that what pops up on the 4U page and on the Instagram,

whatever, explore page, I just feel like it's not reality. And what I, people always ask like what I'll tell my daughter and what I will tell her. is that it's a movie set. You are in a movie set when you were on social media. It's makeup artists that have done people's makeup. It's people who have had plastic surgery. It's people who have filtered their image. It is a directed and produced movie set. So you have to look at it like that because if you're not looking at it through the eyes of it being a movie set, it can really fuck you up. Totally. Totally. And I think growing up also in the public eye and seeing all of that on Instagram, of all these girls that were so tiny and had big boobs and, like, were perfect.

And, like, it was so hard because, like, I would always just be like, wow, I'm not, I don't look like that. Like, I don't, I will never look like that. And, like, I'm ugly compared to them, you know? And it just sets this false reality where it's like, if I don't look like that, I'm not good enough. And I feel like that's what a lot of teenagers have gone through where it's like, I would die to be you and I would blah, blah, blah. And it's like, but no one actually looks like that. Instagram's a highlight real. Like, you know what I'm saying?

You're not going to post a picture of you, like, just waking up with droll on your face and, like, in your PJs. Like, no one's going to do that. I do post a picture of me wearing mouth tape. Which, by the way, it's way cooler. Like, I feel like my friends and I, like, we don't care about social media. Like, I genuinely post, like, ugly photos of me and I make fun of it and, like, whatever. And people don't do that. And I'm like, wow, this is honestly so funny.

I look like a joke on the internet because everyone's posting, like, bikini photos. photos and I'm just like not at all. I think people want that now though. I think like... A thousand percent. I think like the bikini images, it's just like so overproduced. People are just scrolling past it. Well, I think the difficulty in why I'm asking is I think the previous generation that

didn't have access to this. And we're like, now we have it. Obviously we use it. But like your parents, for example, like there, it's probably very difficult for parents who grew up when this technology did not even exist to try to contextualize. So now I think your generation, our generation. you're going to be able to go to the next generations of young people and say, okay, like, this is how you have to look at this stuff in a healthy way.

Well, like, if you're just going through this and nobody's giving you any kind of insight into what's going on, it can start to mess with your head because you think this is reality. And that's not my reality. So I must not be good enough. Okay. You said to if you grew up without a parent, I hope you know that you're not alone. And this record can provide some type of peace and safe space for you all. There's a lot of people that only grew up with one parent, many that grew up with no

parents. What is your advice? You know, I think my, what got me through kind of this whole situation, I think it was just surrounding myself with really good people. I feel like my friends were like the people that really got me through everything in my life. And, you know, having my sister was just like such a good support system because we both were experiencing it. And I, I honestly think, you know, going to therapy, I feel like would definitely help. And also surrounding yourself with good people and doing things that you love. I feel like there's so many things that, you know, with having one single parent, there's so many things that you think about that's like, I'm not loved or I'm not, my family doesn't want me or my dad doesn't want me. Or it just kind of puts you in this like spot where you just feel

unwanted. And I feel like that's just not true. I feel like everyone will, Everyone loves someone. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like my friends love me more than anyone in this world. Where can everyone find everything you're doing? Tell us about American Eagle. Tell us all the things you're doing. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So my sister and I are doing a collaboration with American Eagle. And we are so excited because obviously we don't work together as much anymore. We kind of are going in separate past. She does acting. I do music. And so it's really nice for us to kind of do something together. It's kind of like old. times it's very nostalgic but yeah so it's finally coming out we've done it we've been doing it for like a year now so it's it just feels amazing did you guys design clothes together all of it cool the whole collection cool yeah is there anything that will look cute on me absolutely everything like seriously everything this collection i feel like we since we're dancers i feel like we're so specific on what's flattering

and what's not because we're moving around so much like we really wanted to make this a perfect collection for everyone to wear. No matter what your body type is, we want you to feel comfortable in it. Love it. Yeah. Okay. And where can everyone find your album, your Instagram with 14 million followers, your TikTok, kimp yourself out. Oh my gosh. My Instagram is Kenzie. My TikTok is McKenzie Diggler. Everything is mainly Kenzie other than my TikTok. And yeah, my Spotify is Kenzie. I'm excited to see where you are in 10 years. Thank you. To be this. far along at your age, business-wise, is incredible. And also not just business-wise, but in therapy, it sounds like you are evolving and evolved. So thank you for coming on. Thank you for

having me. You guys are awesome. Thank you, Kenzie for coming on. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. If you want to watch us on YouTube, you can now come hang out with video. Simply search the Skinny Confidential on YouTube and you can see all of our episodes there. Cheers.