The Bossticks - Kidnapped By Pirates For 93 Days - The Unbelievable True Story Of Jessica Buchanan & Her Captivity

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

#558: Today we're welcoming Jessica Buchanan to the show. In 2011, Jessica was kidnapped by pirates in Somalia and held hostage for 93 days, before being rescued by SEAL Team 6. Today we sit down with Jessica & discuss what all transpired, how she persevered through living in the desert for 93 days, and how she used her time as a hostage to heal her own personal trauma. She also gets into the role her intuition & inner voice played in her kidnapping, which she also discusses in her newest book, Deserts to Mountaintops. To connect with Jessica Buchanan click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Channel click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. The Skinny Confidential is 2 years old! Use code PINKBASH on April 7th to celebrate our Two Year Bash Sale.   This episode is brought to you by Armra ARMRA Colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, activates hair growth and skin radiance, and powers fitness performance and recovery. Visit www.tryarmra.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated organic formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase at cymbiotika.com This episode is brought to you by Wella Wella Professionals just released its most luxurious hair care line; Ultimate Repair. You can purchase The Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Ulta stores, or go to wella.com to learn more.   This episode is brought to you by Hatch Hatch taps into your circadian rhythm every morning with a gradual sunrise alarm that wakes you gently. Go to hatch.co and get free expedited shipping on a Restore 2 Alarm Clock. This episode is brought to you byTopgolf The Topgolf experience has a vibe – it's all about play and having fun. Download the Topgolf app today & book a bay. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. We never do sales or promotions. I think it happens like twice a year. So this is super exciting because we are having our two-year bash. This is to celebrate the Skinny Confidential product line being in business for two years. It's so crazy. We launched the ice roller two years ago.

So to have this sale is major. We're doing 20% off, excluding kits and gift cards. So go on shop, get all the tools and products that you need. You can even get gifts, what I do for birthdays. So like I'll order razors, ice rollers, pink balls to my house and wrap them up in cute wrapping. And then I just have a gift ready to go. We also have a huge giveaway going on to give back to our community as a thank you. You will win the entire skinny confidential line. The sleeping bag planner, face oil, razor, shaving cream, facial massager, ice roller, razor replacement blades.

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use code pink bash. Go to shop skinny confidential.com and use code pink bash. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a lifestyle. And he's a He's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. It's like the crate unknown.

It's just vast desert. We're driving down camel tracks and stop for the final time. We're ordered out of the vehicle. And I remember him ordering me to walk out into the desert. And so we do. We just start walking. we're like tripping over these bushes, like thorn bushes and rocks and picking ourselves back up. And it's just so dark that I can hear we're being surrounded and it feels like more of them are

coming out of the shadows. And we just walk and we walk and we walk. And finally we're ordered to stop and get down onto our knees. And I think, okay, this is it. This is it. This is the end of my life here on Earth. Hello, everybody. We have one of the wildest episodes I think we've ever recorded with our guest today, Jessica Buchanan. I am going to read the brief verbat, that I have right now just to kind of give you a ground floor look at what I'm talking about here. And then this episode, like I said, is probably one of the wilder ones we've ever done. Definitely one of the crazier stories I've ever heard on this show. And that's saying a lot.

On October 25th, 2011, while on a routine field mission in Somalia, working as the education advisor for her non-governmental organization, Jessica was abducted at gunpoint and held for ransom by a group of Somali pirates for 93 days. Forced to live outdoors in a deplorable conditions, starved and terrorized by more than two dozen gangsters, Jessica's health steadily deteriorated until by order of President Obama. She was rescued by the elite SEAL Team 6 on January 25th, 2012. Like I said, guys, this is a wild story.

Definitely different for us, definitely a different kind of podcast. But it was so intense while Lauren and I were listening to her. I was captivated. I always felt like I was in a fucking documentary. It was intense. Our producer Carson was on and he was like, what is going on here? Everybody was blown away by this story. I think you will be too. With that, Jessica Buchanan, welcome to the skinny confidential, him and

her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. This is one of the wilder stories that we've heard. We've done about 600 of these things. We have yet to have someone who has a story like yours. Before we dive in, because I have a feeling this is going to be an incredible episode, but let's go back with you a little bit. How did you grow up? Where did you grow up? And how did you even come to be working in Somalia? I'm a teacher by profession, actually, and I grew up, I grew up in the Midwest. I'm from Southern Ohio. I essentially grew up in the middle of a cornfield, is what I say. My parents were makers, so my dad still makes furniture and restores antiques. And so artists, my mom was

a jeweler, and they were your proverbial hippies in the 60s and 70s, and then they switched from that ideology to religion. Kind of grew up conservative in the church. Church was a big deal for us, went to Christian school and all of that. And I think, you know, just from the very beginning, it was instilled in me that to who much is given, much is required. You know, so I had been given this education,

and I had this skill set, and I had these gifts and these talents, and this home and this family. And so there was just something about the way we were raised that we were always very aware of less fortunate and people who were in need. And there was something inside me that felt like I wanted to give to serve something, do something. And I've had many lifetimes of college and professions. And I always say that I've taken the scenic route. But I finally went back to college for the final time, like in my early to mid-20s and got a teaching degree. in the first summer in between my college course, I, by luck, got this position to go teach in Honduras for the summer. And I spent all summer, it was super, it was the hottest I've ever been in my life, which is saying a lot. I spent all summer in a classroom with fifth and sixth grade kids, like 60 of them. Dogs were running through my classroom. And, you know, we couldn't understand each other because I didn't know Spanish and they didn't know English. But something inside of me came a lot.

live and I knew that this was the path that I was supposed to take. And so I finished up my degree, but I needed to do my student teaching. And I looked around at the options and it just didn't interest me to go sit in a public school somewhere outside of Philadelphia. So I thought, well, let me see where I can go. And I was the first student in my college, my education program, to get my student teaching degree overseas. And I got a job actually at an international school in Nairobi, Kenya, they offered me a position and I took it. So you get there and I assume you start teaching and walk us through what happens. So I mean, I start teaching. I'm just a regular fourth grade teacher in this classroom and I go out one Saturday night with some friends and I see this cute

guy across the dance floor at the club that we're at. And I motion him over and he ignores me. And I think, okay, that's, no, we're not going to do that. So I motion him over again. me comes over. I can't hear anything. It's really loud. I think he says his name is Oric, and he's from Sweden. I'd never met anybody from Sweden, so Oric seemed like a, you know, completely normal name. Turns out his name is Eric, and I ended up marrying him a year and a half later, and we've been together for 15 years. But he was really how I got to Somalia. He's the equivalent of a human rights lawyer, and he was working in Somalia and based kind of in Nairobi, which is kind of common, especially at that time, you'd be based in a place like Nairobi that was a hub,

and then you would travel in and out of these riskier. What is the, what's the distance? What's the, what's the, except I know the right next year. Yeah, I mean, we would take these little, like, propeller planes that didn't have bathrooms. And I mean, it was, there was nothing comfortable about it. So, I mean, it was like a five-hour flight. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was hardcore. And so he ended up being stationed or, like, positioned so that he was working in Hargasa, Somaliland more. And after we got married, I just decided I didn't want to be away from him all the time. We didn't want to have a long-distance marriage. So I quit my teaching job and moved up to Hargasa to be with him.

You know, again, teachers always find work. And so I started at the very beginning. And we had a bunch of Ethiopian refugees living on our compound. So I started working with the kids and teaching them English. And then before you knew it, I had a dining room full of grownups who wanted to learn English. And it was super fun. but work got around that there was an actually like a trained teacher in town. And so I started getting lots and lots of work. And then I started working for the Danish Dining Group, which was

the mine action unit of the Danish refugee council. So these, the town is full of non-governmental organizations like nonprofits essentially who are commissioned to go in and do humanitarian development work, you know, and they're from all over the world. I learned like the technical aspects of mine. risk education, conflict management, armed violence reduction, community safety, and then applied my educational and pedagogical skills to disseminating that information to these people groups who are largely non-literate. It's very nomadic. They're still out there like hurting camels and goats. What was the craziest thing that you saw that just shocked you and blew your mind at this point? Oh, man. I mean, I've been all over the place in East Africa, essentially. I will never forget

my first, it was my first trip to Africa. A friend and I were volunteering in South Sudan, and there was a little girl in the community, and we met her and her mother outside the hospital, and she had this, I mean, her stomach, she was like four, her stomach looked like she was nine months pregnant. It was so distended, and it was a benign tumor. They knew it was benign. It wasn't cancerous, and it would only cost $400 to get it removed. If you're right, in front of the little girl, is there a way to say, here's $400? We did. We went through proper channels. And that's why organizations exist, right? They have a standard checks and balances system. They're working with different governments and countries. And so, yes, right? I guess I would say that I feel like I'm a

bleeding heart in some ways, like I have this deep level of empathy. And when you see something like that, yeah, you're like $400. Like, that's nothing. Let me, yeah, fix the entire community. But then I think that there's a danger in that. Yeah. There's a lack of sustainability. And that's really what the development world is all about. That's that's there's a difference between humanitarian aid when you go in and you provide emergency services and then developmental assistance where where you're going and you're building up infrastructures and you're providing education and you're increasing access to education and health care so that people can learn and take over and take autonomy over their own their own country. their own. It's like that fish thing. Yes. It's like the fish thing. What is it? You always say that.

If you teach a man to fish, if you feed a man of fish, he only eats once. If you teach him to fish, he eats for life. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think. I was like a fish thing. He has all the different kinds of saying. That's all my saying. Okay. So, so, so you're there. Talk to us about what happens and this incredible story. Before you do, when you went and you knew there was risk, like did you have any idea like, like, I, I, feel like people hear things in life and you say, hey, this is, but I, maybe you disagree, but we never really believe it, it's us. Right? You're like, okay, yeah, it's risky. Right. Is it like, so when you're going there, you're like, okay, these are the risks. Are they telling you what the risks are. Do you, like, how are you thinking about it when you're first getting? Or did you not think there was any risk, really? Oh, no. I think you live in these places and you

understand that there is inherent risk. And you sign off on that to a certain extent. When you work for an organization, there are, again, those protocols. in the security and you have security advisors and you have people who are following the pulse of of the security in in the areas that you're working in and it's supposed to work. But some things just can't be predicted, right? So like just jumping into that day, October 25th, 2011, a few days prior, I had called my colleague who was a Danish gentleman that was working in the location that I was supposed to travel to in the southern part of Somalia. I don't want to get to in the weeds because it gets complicated. But I lived in the north. That's where I was stationed. And then I was

being asked to travel to the south, which was less safe. But we did have programs running there. I had canceled the training twice before because I didn't feel good about it. I had this gut feeling that I just didn't want to go. Right. So I call my colleague up. I say, hey, I don't feel good about this. I don't want to go. We cancel it twice. The third time I call to try to cancel it again because I still just don't feel good about it. And he says, you know, why did you not feel good? Was the reports of activity going on? Yeah, there had been, like, for example, a bus full of women and children, essentially, Somali women and children that had been blown up. There was a lot of, like, clan conflict.

So we weren't the targets. That's always, right? As expats, as aid workers, we weren't the targets. But there was always a possibility that you could get caught in the crossfire, you know, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I don't know. I'm a very sensitive person, and I just didn't want to go. And so I call them up, I say, I'll pay for, to fly your entire staff.

up here. Let's do the training up here. He says, no, part of our job is to be in solidarity with our staff. Like, we are supposed to, you're supposed to come down here. This is your job. Essentially, like, if you don't get down here and do your job, I'm going to report you to our supervisor. And, you know, it wasn't said, but the implication was like, if you don't want to do your job, we'll find somebody who can't. And I mean, that's a very real scenario. And I know it's not everybody's dream job. But for me, it was. Like, I was, I loved it. I loved it. I loved me. my work. I loved the people that I was working with. I felt like I was making an impact. And I, I think that particularly for women across the board in, you know, work environments, oftentimes

we do feel a little bit cornered, right? We do feel a little bit threatened and worried that we're going to, you know, lose our job for this reason or that reason. So that extends all the way to these field positions in Somalia. And so, you know, to your point, I was thinking, like, I'm a school teacher from Ohio. What's the worst that can happen? You know, like bad things don't happen to girls like me, which is such a, such a naive, privileged perspective to have. I get on a UN plane, fly south. The training's three days. The first two days are great because we don't have to leave the guest house. The office in the guest house are attached. The second night, I didn't sleep all night long because I knew we were going to have to travel to the part of the city. And what I was worried about was actually like being in transit because if something's

going to happen is probably going to happen when you're moving, right? Not when you're like in the place or in the compound room. Yeah, I mean, it could be, but it's guarded. You know, we have armed guards everywhere. And so I just felt like we were more vulnerable. And for someone, I'm ignorant about this. What do you, you have armed guards because why? If you didn't have armed guards, what would happen? Which is a deterrent, right? I mean, they're in a, war zone, essentially. Yeah, I mean, I think just for general protection, you know, like, would you ever go down there without armed guards? No, no, no. You weren't allowed. Even in the northern part, I always traveled with an armed guard. We had armed guards living

on our compound. I was never allowed to like walk around town by myself. I always had someone with an AK-47 following me. It was kind of like being famous, but not. No one really cares that you're there, but you've always got to have an armed guard with you. So I think in a way you get really desensitized because you're just used to traveling. this way. And it's your life. Like I had been there for two and a half years at this point. It's also kind of a maybe a sense of safety. Like, oh, there's somebody with an AKB. A hundred percent. It's a false sense of security. And here's why. Because what I was worried about was, yeah, traveling from that guest house to the other, the field office. And that night, I hadn't,

the night before I hadn't slept all night because I kept having these horrible nightmares. And I'm not a prolific dreamer. So I'm not one of those people that has these dreams. And I'm like, oh my God, like this happened and that's just not me. So it was very odd and the dream was very specific. And I did you not, I had dreams that I was being kidnapped by pirates. They had scaled the walls of the compound and they were trying to get into my room. And I woke up in the morning and I was just sweating like exhausted and sweating. And I can remember very clearly getting up out of my bed and walking to my bathroom and looking at myself in the mirror and saying outside out loud to myself, just do you want to do this? And I knew the answer was no. And therein in that moment when I was standing

there looking at myself in the mirror, I made the most important decision I have ever, I think probably ever made in my life. And I made the decision to abandon myself. And I walked away from myself. And I walked away from what I knew to be true. Because every, my intuition was like throwing up red flares and screaming at me to listen, giving me that that subconscious knowing and that, truth and I was still so afraid of what people would think about me or that I would lose my job. I let logic and the practical side, right, that we all do this. We all find ourselves in these positions at some point. I let that win. And so I remember putting on my headscarf and walking out of my room and that would be the last time I saw that girl. Because six hours later,

I've finished the training. Everything's gone great. It's, I'm like, I know I'm in the home stretch, right? Like, I just got a few more hours here in, in this part of Smalia. And then I'm leaving the next morning on a UN flight. And I'm heading back north to reunite with my husband. And it's around 3 o'clock in the afternoon. And we're waiting for the local security advisor. He's a man named Abdiwryzac to get our convoy of vehicles. Again, armed guards in the front, arm guards in the third vehicle. Paul, my colleague and I are in the middle. We have a driver. How many of you are there? We're two expats. Okay. Right. The rest are like Somali, their local staff that I had just trained in lots of guards. We've got drivers. Our local security advisor for that particular office, his name is Abdi Rezak. And he kept like getting on the phone and saying, okay, we're ready. And then stop, stop. No, we're not ready. Like over and over. And I thought, this is a little weird, right? How many, like when you say a lot of guards, like how many is this? Is this like five, ten, on you? Oh, I don't know, to be honest, maybe like eight. Okay. You know, we definitely had some in our

vehicle and then there were several. Yeah, maybe like eight. I'm just trying to get an idea of the size. Yeah. And we're in, you know, these old school land cruisers, diesel, you know, so, and it's dusty and it's hot. I'm like thinking about getting home, getting my workout in, what I'm going to have for dinner, you know, like just regular. I think I sent an email to my husband and we finally get into the vehicles and we pull through the gates and we're driving through the city and I use that term loosely. I mean, that's like there are people milling around. The streets are very narrow. They're rutted. And it had rained actually a couple of these before, which was, you know, a little bit out of the ordinary because this is desert. And we're driving. And then all of a sudden I hear like kind of sense

of vehicle come up on the right side of us. And then they cut us off and they splash water and mud up all over the windows in the windshield. And I can't see out the window. And I'm thinking, God, what a jerk. Who drives like that? Then I start hearing, like, yelling, like angry men. And they're coming closer. And it sounds like they've got the car surrounded. And then I hear the crack of the butt of it in K-47 on the car hood. And I'm sitting in the back on the left. And Abdi Rezac, the security advisor sitting on the right. And then his door is pulled open. And there is a very angry man. His face is like all pockmarked. And he's wearing a police. uniform and he's got a brand new, like very shiny AK-47. He grabs Abdi Rezac out,

slams him onto the ground, hits him in the head with his gun, and then he gets in and he points the gun at my head and starts screaming at the driver to drive. What about the armed guards? They've disseminated at this point. What does it disseminated mean? They've deserted us. So what's the point of having armed guards if they don't help you? Well, they got overrun. No. They were in on it. Oh, they were in on it. We were sold for $100,000. to be at this point in this place and time. So you were, you and your colleague were the targets because you were, okay.

We're worth money. And so they were basically holding you to ransom you. Yes. Well, they were taking us, right? And at this point, I have like two thoughts that are on repeat in my head, right?

I'm just like, this is so bad. This is so bad. This is so bad. I have no frame of reference for how bad this is. Like nothing in my life has ever prepared me for this. How would you? Well,

we go through trainings. Like we go through hostile environment awareness trainings and they even do these mock like kidnapping exercises so that you're supposed to know what to do in the middle. Nothing can prepare you for this. No, this is like something you see in a movie and you think there's no way that actually happens in real life. Yeah. Wait, I have a question. What is the $100,000 for? Is it because you're from the United States?

Is it because you're a woman? What is the currency of the $100,000? So we didn't know this at the time, but then we, you know, you're filling in piecing things together as you go along and then in the aftermath. Abnery-Rezak, that security advisor, had basically orchestrated the entire situation, that scenario for us to be in that place at that moment for this takeover. And they paid him $100,000. That's the figure I heard. And they still smash his head with the gun? Yeah, they were play acting.

And I remember feeling sorry for him in that moment. But now I know that he was he was the one who dropped us off there. It was essentially like, yeah, it was like a drop and we were being trafficked. But here's what I don't understand. Is it because you're a woman that they wanted you? Why is it $100,000? Like what is it because like what is the reason that they- 100,000 was for them to do the drop?

Yeah, that's just for him. That was just to get. That's not the ransom demand. That's, we haven't even gotten to the ransom demand. That was just for the security detail. Oh, because what they want to do is they want to have a ransom so they can get more. money. So it's about the ransom. They had to pay the security. I'm just trying to understand. Why do people get kidnapped?

Yeah. Because in a country like Somalia, the average life expectancy is 46 years. People live on less than a dollar a day, a dollar a day. We're talking, it ranks zero on, there's a scale of life, quality of life scale of every country in the world, and they rank dead last. There are zero industries. There's no farming. There's no export, no import. There's no way. to make money in a country like Somalia. It is very, very poor. So you have to get creative with how you're making money, and this is a way to get creative.

Yeah. So piracy, and again, I'm not an expert on the business of piracy. I'm an expert on my experience. But what I understand, do you remember that movie, Captain Phillips? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that happened like a year before my ordeal.

And essentially, what happened to him was his, ship, he had this Mars, Galabama, like a big huge container ship, right, worth like millions and millions of dollars. Because of all the goods in it. Because of all the goods. Yes. So they were off the coast of Somalia, off the coast of the Horn of Africa, in

the Indian Ocean. And that particular area of water had become overfished by other commercial fishing areas. And I think essentially Somali fishermen were like, hey, this is our water. This is our livelihood. You're overfished.

fishing it and you're taking away like basically the only industry we have. And so they started taking over these ships and holding them hostage. And then, you know, they'd ask for $45 million. The ransom demand would come down to a million. I mean, that's a lot of money, right? So this started becoming a very heavily cobwebbed kind of network industry, kidnapping and ransom. If all of a sudden you're making a dollar a day and then all of a sudden you get a million check that feeds you for, you know, your life. If you listen to the episode earlier this week with Scarlett Johansson, you know that I rub a lot of colostrum on my face. Here are the episode if you want the context there. I also take colostrum every single morning.

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It's symbiotica.com slash skinny for 15% off sitewide. It's like the mafia. Okay. So you've got people in the UK. You've got diaspora in the U.S. Who are the financiers. Like it's a whole, it's a whole crime ring.

It's heavily, it's very strategic. They're very, very smart. So when Captain Phillips, his ship was taken over, they were held, I think,

for four days. One of the SEAL teams came in. I'm not sure if it was SEAL Team 6 and rescued them. And they sniped some people, right? They did. And so that caused them to stop hanging out in the water so much and move more onto land and start taking humanitarian

aid workers and expats like tourists and stuff because we came in and started taking them out on the water so they moved to land okay so i want you to take our audience on this journey okay i'm in the land cruiser so i'm thinking like nothing has prepared me for this this is so bad and then the other thing i'm thinking is just like even if they stopped right now and kicked me out and let me walk back to town, like my life has fundamentally changed. Like nothing about my life will ever be the same again. And so we drive for hours. We stop. They change, it's like they change personnel, like a new shift of men get in. They're wearing belts of ammunition. They've got really big guns. Some of them are like big, huge machine guns that don't even fit in the car. So they're hanging out the windows. We drive some more.

They stop. They make us get in other vehicles. This goes on all night long. At one point, I remember hearing a high-pitched voice behind me. And I think that it's very odd because it sounds like there's a woman talking behind me and that would be very strange, just in general, but especially in Somali culture. They're very, very separate. And I turn around because I'm so curious. It's a nine-year-old little boy. And he's wearing chains of ammo and he's got a machine gun. And I later get to know him a little bit. His name is Abd al-Dhahy. He was nine years old. He was learning the family trade of kidnapping and ransom. And he was, was, had already killed three people. Wow. So like a child soldier, right? Essentially. We

finally drive into, you know, just like, it's like the great unknown. It's just vast desert. We're driving down camel tracks and stop for the final time. We're ordered out of the vehicle. And Paul is in the front seat. And I, I don't know other than I think it's just shock, right? that comes over me and I remember the man with the machine gun, he's got his head wrapped up in like a scarf. So it looks like a turban. And at this point, I'm not really sure who has us like what they want, right? Like is this an ideological thing? Is this like an Islamic terrorist group?

If that's the case, then I'm dead. Or do they just want money? And I remember him ordering me to walk out into the desert. And I'm like, nope. No, I'm not doing that. and we go back and forth and he's screaming in my face to walk gun to my head and I'm like, nope, because I have no idea what's waiting for me out there, but I can tell you it's not going to be good. In my mind, I think I'm probably going to be gang raped or something. And finally,

Paul comes around and he takes my hand and he says, Jessica, you know, we have to walk. I know he's right. And so we do. We just start walking and we're like tripping over these bushes, like thorn bushes and rocks and picking ourselves back up. And it's just so dark, but I can hear we're being surrounded. And it feels like more of them are coming out of the shadows. And, you know, I'm like saying goodbye to my husband. I'm saying goodbye to my dad. My mom had just died the year before. And so I'm just like in my heart, like calling out to her like, help me be strong. Please help me be dignified. Like something in head just like I don't want to beg, right? You know? And I think that all of us maybe don't spend a lot of time thinking about what the end of our lives are going to look like, but I never had ever thought

it would end like this. And, you know, the whole time I'm like, I'm 30, 31 at this point and I'm thinking, like, I didn't even have a chance to become a mom. You know, I put all that off for work. And we just walk and we walk and we walk. And finally, we're ordered to stop and get down onto our knees. And I think, okay, this is it. What is it's going to be like? This is it. This is the end of my life here on earth. And then I hear one word. One of them, it's so quiet. Like, it's just so still. One word. Sleep. One of them says, and I'm like, shaking my head. Like, what? Did I, what did I just hear? And he says, go to sleep. And they just want to sit down in the dirt and go to sleep. And I'm like, it's incredible how your body knows how to protect you. And it just takes over. And it just takes over.

and I collapse into the dirt, into the ground, and I pass out. Like, I think I sleep for a couple of hours and I wake up as it's starting to get light and kind of look around and evaluate. And I will always say, you know, it was like waking up in hell. We're just outside. This would, you know, end up. We thought maybe this would last for like a week, maybe two weeks. We're humanitarian aid workers. We're here to help. Like, you know, the communities are going to put pressure on these guys. And it's just the two of you. It's just the two of us. And Paul's quite a bit older than me. He had just turned 60 at that point. I'm like 31. Yeah, that would start my 93 days of the most extreme camping experience, I guess you could say. But we were kept outside. We were never taken to a house. We were never given like shelter or a tent or

tarp, sleeping bag, nothing. At one point, a couple weeks in, we were finally given a blanket. And does anyone come along the way from, you know, from that group and give you context of what's happening or why you're there or what they're doing? Or like, do you have any kind of conversation about, you know, what the hell you're doing there? It would take about a week for us to finally get some information. No one really spoke English and we kept being told we were waiting for a communicator. That was the word they used. And Paul and I were like, oh, they must mean the negotiator. And no, they really meant a communicator.

This creepy guy, his name is Jibril. He had come up from Mogadishu, and he spoke pretty good English. He said he had an NGO. I don't know. And he started doing translations and giving us information. And he was a pirate or just a guy they brought in? He said that he was a guy that they brought in. He wasn't.

He wasn't. But he then tells us, yeah, you're here for ransom. and the ransom demand is $45 million. Does that make you feel better in a way knowing that you're there for a ransom? Yes. Initially, yes. Because that's a strange question. No, it is because you're like, okay, money, that's better than an ideological, like ISIS or something.

Yeah, not to be morbid, but you would be worthless if you weren't living, right? Well, they would sell your body back, but essentially I'm worth more alive than dead. Sure. Yeah. Okay. During this first week, then to the following week, weeks. What are your days like, are you just kind of waking up and sitting tight in a cell? Are you just kind of out in the open? No, she's camping. No, I know. But like, so what's the supervision? Like,

what are you doing this whole time? You're outside, right? Yeah, we're outside. I mean, trying not to lose my mind. You know, I mean, a little bit. I mean, what it ended up developing into. We got a routine down. You know, we traveled. We moved around 50 or 60 times. Like, there was always this feeling that we were running from something, right? So I would sit for 12 hours underneath a tree or lying beneath a bush if the bush wasn't high enough to sit under. I had to sit undercover during the day. It was, you know, it's sunny. It's Africa. So trying to get some shade. And then we would sleep out in the open on a mat at night. The days, once things kind of settled into a routine of nothingness, of just this blankness, it became more of a mental battle of like trying not to just go crazy,

not lose my mind. I mean, I was not one of those hostages where they give you books to read and a notepad and pen to, you know, write letters or your reflections. I had nothing, you know. At what point, or maybe you didn't feel like this, did you feel like you needed sort of a strategy? And what I mean by that, like my brain, and maybe this is, I'm not in your circumstances, but like maybe I'm trying to befriend someone or get to know someone. What was your sort of strategy if you had one? I had a couple of strategies. Yes, absolutely. There were shifts of pirates that would come in and they call themselves pirates. I don't think they were fishermen, but they didn't have another word for it. They were just gangsters and bad people, but we call them pirates. And they would come in these shifts. like these five-day shifts. And so there were a couple that I knew that I needed to be really careful around and stay as far away from as if possible if I could. There were a few, like we gave them nicknames, Paul and I so that we could talk about them without them knowing about it. So there was a

man there who was a driver. His name was Dyer. We called him helper. He made bad decisions, but he was not a bad person. And he tried to help us as much as he could. I think he tried to protect me as much as he could use. He was very religious and prayed five times a day, a Muslim country, right? I think there was some respect for him amongst the other pirates as well. And so he slept next to me the entire time that he was there. And I think that that had a lot to do with why I wasn't sexually assaulted. And so I'm very grateful for that. So yeah, it was a lot about sitting there and studying. Like I've always had pretty good observation skills, but man, they're like killer now, you know, like, because I'm just.

Honing them because my life is dependent on it, right? So I felt like I learned even more how to happen to my sensitive nature and my intuition, even though I had told her to, we can curse on here. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like fuck off, you know, on October 25th. I had a really kind of like a moment of epiphany. I had several actually. And a lot of that had to do with just surrendering to things that were natural in me. Not too long ago, I met someone, you know, I live in Washington, D.C., so I meet people all the time that are like government or military and they had something tangentially to do with my situation. And someone told me not too long ago that they actually use my kidnapping, my captivity as a lesson in one of the classes that they teach in college

around building rapport. And I was like, okay, can you tell me more about that? And she said that, you know, they could hear, like at times, and we can get to the military component in a minute, but there were ways that they could hear some of the conversations that were happening and they could hear how I befriended and how I connected with several of my kidnappers. And they actually use it as a model for how to build connection and remember. poor with people. And she said to me, you saved your own life and Paul's at least five times.

Like, give us an example where they think that you saved you in Paul's life. I mean, I don't know the particulars on their end, but I can think of some times where, you know, things started to escalate. And they were really angry at us because negotiations weren't moving in the right direction. That was always what, you know, and if our people weren't offering enough money to counter their demand, then we got the brunt of it, right? So they, come over to us, they'd be raging and screaming at us and threatening us with their guns. And sometimes Paul would scream back. And I would just, like, come into myself. I wouldn't make eye contact. I would look down. I would say, you know, I would try to relate to them. I am sorry.

I know how frustrating this must be. This is frustrating as frustrating for you as it is for us. I know you don't want to be here either. Like just trying to appeal to them on a human level, right? I mean, it's the same as any of the stories that you're going to hear of, like when somebody is, assaulted or or anything like trying to make yourself and connect as to human beings instead of someone who's the victim in the captor, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. At any point, I mean, I can't believe that you're a one, you're the only woman out there and you weren't sexually abused. You're so lucky for that. I mean, so lucky. I don't know that I would have been able to recover the way I have if that had not been the case. I mean, that gives me chills for you.

Thank God. Yeah. Was. Besides verbal abuse, was there other kinds of abuse that, like, are they hitting you? Are they pushing you with the gun? Did you get hurt? I mean, not irreparably. But sure. Absolutely. Force was used a lot.

I mean, I have had a gun held to whom I had more times than I can remember. I've been threatened that I will be sold to al-Shabaab, which is an Islamic terrorist group. I mean, there was a lot of just emotional verbal abuse as well as the physical abuse. Looking back now that you're here, do you see things that you didn't see in the moment where they were brainwashing you? I don't think so. I don't think it was that kind of situation where I had to worry about like Stockholm syndrome or or anything like that. You were literally just an asset to them. I'm a commodity. I'm a dollar sign. That's it. It's not personal. But none of the men like try to like creep up on you and be creepy. Yes, they did. Yes, they did.

in the middle of the night. But you had, you had helper next to you. I did and I was able somehow, I mean, I don't know, like, where you stand on your spiritual beliefs and things, but I mean, every single protection out there had to do with the fact that my mom was protecting me. It was just miracle after miracle. I can't explain it other than I am just so lucky. I mean, I was woken up in the middle of night because someone was trying to climb on top of

me, but nothing happened. What did you say? get the fuck off me? I didn't. I just pretended like I was still asleep. I started kicking and moving and something came along where they were pulled away. You know what I think when you tell me you're camping

outside? What about the animals? Is there freaky animals too? I mean, you've got a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot of going on there. Lots of different. It's the least of your words. Well, you know, actually, I did kill a fair amount of scorpions with my Birkenstocks. I will say that Somalia is not,

it's not like Kenya, even though they're you know, next door to each other. So maybe you have to worry about some hyenas or some, we killed a couple of snakes, but it wasn't any, it wasn't a huge deal. When you look back on the experience, what's the most memorable day, good or bad? I remember, you know, when you were talking about strategies, I realized at some point, maybe 40 or 50 days in that we were in this for the long haul. Like, this was not going to end as soon as we were hoping. But you don't know, it's 40. to 50 days in because you don't have a calendar. Well, I can count the days. I don't know what day on the calendar it is, but you can be certain

I'm counting what day I'm on. You're counting what day. I'm counting what day. I'm just crazy to think about like to put in perspective, everything you've done this year since New Year's is not, is not even equaling up to the time that you were there. I mean, just think about that for people listening. It's like, you know. So 50 days in, you start to realize like this is, you're in it for the long haul. What is that, what does that look like in your brain? Is it an epiphany? It's a surrender to the fact. that I'm going to have to come up with some ideas here and get creative on how I'm going to make it through this because I'm determined to survive if I have anything to do with it.

There are some extenuating circumstances that I can't control. But what I can control is my mind. And I can control my mindset and I can control what I'm thinking about. So what are those things you start thinking about? Because I think, you know, we talk about this on this show all the time on a completely different tangent, how we like as a populace now have this constant need to be distracted, be in a phone, be stimulated constantly. when all of a sudden, you know, people talk on this, oh, I'm going to take a break from social media.

This is a break from everything. You have nothing. So where does your mind go? So I decided that I had actually a really interesting opportunity in front of me. I woke up one morning and I moved my mat from the middle of the field that I was sleeping into under a tree where I would sit all day. And I was really into yoga at the time. So I was really trying to do some stretches and work the kinks out.

I started thinking about the fact that after this particular training, I had been planning on taking some time off work and kind of going on a sabbatical. I had mentioned I'd lost my mom the year before and we'd lost her very suddenly and very tragically. And I was like until this really deep in my grief around that. And I thought, you know, I'm going to go sit in an ashram or something somewhere and just grieve for three months and just like, I don't know, get it all out of me or something. And I was sitting there looking around and I thought, you know, didn't the Buddha reach enlightenment while he was sitting under a tree? And didn't Jesus wander the desert for 40 days and 40 nights to meet, to like, you know, wrestle with this decision and all of the spiritual grades of all of the religions? There has been some sort of like point where everything has been taken away, whether they've chosen that or it has happened to them. and they have had this opportunity for transformation. So maybe this was my ashram, right? Maybe this was my

opportunity because you're exactly right. I had nothing. What a beautiful way to look at it. So you realized you were sort of forced into silence, so why not take advantage of it? I don't like to waste time. I don't like to waste opportunities, right? I get it. I mean, that's a great way to look at the rest of your time. It's like you can deal with your grief and silence. Right. And see what is what's out there. what was behind and what's in front. And so I feel like, well, what I did is I got really organized with my mind. And I decided that I was going to think about everything that had ever happened to me that I could remember, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it in those 31 years. And I was going to examine it. And I was going to reflect on it. And I was going to try to ask for forgiveness and

bury some grudges and like do some healing. I don't know. I was just like, let me just think about these things. And so I started with the memory of like the first time, one of my first memories when my mom took me to the movie theater when I was four and we went to go see Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. And I could, I got so detailed. Like, you know, when people talk about visualization and manifestation and everything and they talk about like being in it like so that you can feel it. Well, I did that only in reverse. And I was like became this like four year old child again and I could remember like the freckles on my mom's sun tan skin and I could remember how crooked her teeth were and the sound of her laugh and like over and over I just went back and I went back and I

forgave people. I forgave her and I asked her for forgiveness. I made some connections as to why I made some really shitty decisions in my life, that present one not included yet. And it became this like this escape, this place of freedom in my. mind that I have never experienced again. And I don't think I could have ever experienced if I hadn't been out there. So there was a therapeutic element to what you went through. Yeah. It sounds like. Well, it was transformational, really. Yeah. How could it not? Well, there's no distraction. There's no distraction. There's no time limit. I have complete autonomy. And so I think that that is one of my greatest truths and life lessons that I will carry with me. And it's the gospel that I

I preach is that you may not have a lot of options, but you've always got choices. What's interesting about all this, I'm just listening to you talk here, and all of the normal day-to-day distractions, obligations, responsibilities are gone in one instance. No more bills, there's no more bank accounts. There's no more car. There's no insurance. There's no rent payments. There's no maintaining the house. It's like, it's just all gone. What does it look like two weeks leading up to you getting rescued? Did you say, start to feel that something was changing? Could you feel it energetically? Or was it completely a surprise that you got rescued? Yeah, I was feeling mentally pretty strong at that point. And that would have been like

75 days in or something. And are they just like normal? Like now it's like, okay, you're part of the, you're like in the camp, you're there. Yeah. Kind of like maybe not as intense in the beginning. Yeah, exactly. Like I'm not a worry that they're going to shoot me essentially anymore. Like I think we've found a rhythm, right? I have a way to spend my days now. And we kind of know each other as much as you can. And it feels like we've settled into something because we're going to be here for a while. But what the problem was, you know, I'm living outside. I'm the only woman. There's no bathroom. Like, no one's bringing me toilet paper or anything, you know, so I'm just squatting behind a bush all the time. I get a urinary tract infection. Oh, no. And it, and I'm prone to those. So, you know, I know how this

show goes, they won't bring me anything. You know, I'm like, look, here's the situation. I need a doctor. I need antibiotics. I know exactly what I need. I write it down on a piece of paper that they give me. They take it to whoever. They say no because they don't need me comfortable. They just need me alive enough. You should have said, I'm going to die if I don't get this. Because if anyone's ever had a UTI, this sounds like the worst place on the planet to have a UTI. It's terrible. But what's even worse is that it moved into a kidney infection. Which is, that's happened to me before. And it's fucking.

I mean, people die. It's horrific. Yeah. So it's the worst pain. Like you're hallucinating. You're throwing up. Like, I can't walk anymore. They don't understand.

You have to go to the hospital. You need, I need an IV. I need to be in a sanitary environment. And so January 16th would be my last of six proof of life calls. I didn't know it was the last one. The proof of life calls would be, you know, they would drive us like out into the middle of the desert, put us on a satellite phone. And we would talk to somebody who was supposed to be a representative for our family and the organization.

And they were supposed to ask a series of security questions to make sure that we were still alive so that negotiations could keep moving forward because they're not going to negotiate if we're not still alive. And pause, pause on that. So when you're, what are you saying to these people when you get the phone? Are you only allowed to say certain things? Or you're like, go get me the fuck out of here? I mean, no.

That is not what I'm saying. I'm answering their questions. They want to know if I want to pass a message along to my, my husband. And it's usually like, which we haven't even talked about. I can only imagine what he's going through, what your dad's going through in your family.

Like, I mean, it's their own hell. Yeah, I'm sure. It's got to be the biggest feeling of helplessness ever. Yeah. Yeah.

And I knew, like intrinsically that my husband has worked in and with Somalia for like 20 years. And I knew that he, he knew the contacts very well. And he's also a bolder. dog. And so, like, you don't mess with him. And so I knew that if anybody was fighting, no one could fight harder for me and for my safety than Eric could. And I could feel that, that he was banging down every door and slamming his fists on tables. I knew that's what

was happening and it was. But I said that was probably the first time because usually what I would say is I'm not fine, but I'm doing okay. You know, please tell my family I love them. But that January 16th, that call I said, like, here are my symptoms. I have a kidney infection. I don't think I have much longer out here, probably a couple more weeks. If you don't get me out of here, I'm going to die. And it's going to be on you. And so that information was then taken to my husband, who then checked in with my doctor in Nairobi. And he said to Eric, like, you got to get her out of there. She's going to die. I give her three weeks tops. So he took that information to the FBI who was working the case. And Eric would say that it was like a movie, like Matt Espinche, the FBI director who was heading up the mission. And one of his colleagues just looked at each other and then walked out of the room. And he said he knew in that moment something that had set the wheels in motion. He didn't know what wheels they were, but he knew something was going to happen. Fast forward about nine days later. You know, I'm still just out there.

at this point, I'm not really able to walk, like, much. You know, I'm like, it's so pitiful and tragic, really, to think about, like, I'm, like, crawling, you know, to the nearest bush. I'm so sick. I'm coming back. I'm wrapping myself up in my blanket. You know, we would go to bed around 6 o'clock every night because the sun goes down. And I remember there were two stars that would come out at the same time every night. And they were really, really bright, really vibrant. And I named one for my mom. and I would talk to her every night. And this night, I was just like, you got to do something. Like, I need you to go and tell God that he needs to do something or else I'm not going to make it out of here. I am not going to survive. And so I go to sleep and I wake up a couple hours later with the need to be sick again.

And so I say the word toilet, which is how I asked to be excused from my mat to go do what I needed to do. And there were nine guys on the ground that night, nine pirates. And so like a smaller group than was typical. And always every single like 92 nights before, there was always one person who was keeping watch, who was keeping guard, you know, making sure we didn't escape or whatever. But everybody was passed out. Like hardcore passed out. I'm standing there like, toilet, like, you know, screaming it and no one will wake up. And I think, okay, well, you know, I need to go. So I have this small flashlight. like a little pen light that they had given me. So I start, I pick it up and I start moving it like, you know, around and I'm flashing it because I want them to know that if somebody does wake up, I haven't tried to escape. I'm here. I just am using the bush. And I come back and I roll myself up into my blanket. Sleep, you know, was so important to me. It was the only way I really could. It was the only relief I got from the pain and from the situation trying to go back to sleep. And I can hear something, like you ask about animals, right? I can hear something.

in the grasses. It's like breaking grass. Like a large animal is coming toward us. And I'm thinking, I don't really have the energy to deal with this, whatever this is. But I get up and I'm like shaking my blanket around. Maybe it's bugs that are coming out. I don't know what's happening. And I'm also thinking maybe I'm just kind of like hallucinating and losing my mind at this point. But I can hear something. And then I lay back down in about 30 seconds goes by and helper. He jumps up and he's holding up with his firearm and he's like whisper screaming to all the other guys to get out, wake up, wake up in Somali. And then the night just erupts into automatic gunfire. Oh, Jesus.

It like just like boom, blah, blah, blah. I mean, just like just like a movie, right? And I'm thinking, I'm just really never going to make it out of this thing alive, am I? Just like one set back after another. In my mind, I'm thinking it's probably another group who's come in. They know we're here. They're going to re-kidnap us. Then we're going to have to start this whole process. over again and I don't have it in me. I can't do this. I'm hearing Olive, I'm hearing, I mean, helper, he's shot. He falls down on the ground next to me. All the other guys, they're just dropping to the ground. I mean, they're dying. And I'm trying to get as low to the ground and cover up with my blanket as I can. And then I feel somebody grab my ankles and my shoulders. And I'm trying to

fight back. And I have my hands up in front of me to guard myself, try to protect myself. And then I hear the voice of a young American man. And he knows my name. Postpartum with towns, I was good as far as, like, thickness and shedding because I was doing a lot of different things. But what I noticed is I would put my hair back in, like, a slick bun. And I would get those little baby hairs everywhere, like popping up. So I needed, like, some kind of, I don't know, like a spray to help repair the hair damage.

It looked like it was from like maybe a straightener or a blow dryer or some heat. So I found this product. It's by Wella Professionals, and it's called Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue. What I do is I'll put my hair in a bun. I'll get a really good brush. I'm all about a good brush. And I'll pull my hair back into a ponytail and then I'll wrap it and put a claw clip in it. And then I'll put this ultimate repair miracle hair rescue on top of the sleeked back button. And sometimes I'll even rub it on the bun. But mainly you really want to get it on the top of your head. And what it does is it gives you really pretty shiny hair, but it also helps with the breakage. I notice just like a smoother coat. It looks really healthy and this should not surprise you because there's omega-9 in it. And every single thing is designed to create a protective barrier on the hair. This brand is vegan, cruelty-free dermatology tested, save for colored hair and formulated without

artificial dyes, which we love. This product by Welles Professionals is where it's at. You can purchase Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Ulta now. You can also go touela.com. That's w-e-l-l-a-com to learn more. As you can imagine, I am very detailed about the way I wake up, but also the way I go to bed. And a lot of people have DM'd me and asked me what alarm clock I use in the morning. And I do not use my phone. In fact, my phone is usually outside my room. It's on airplane mode. I don't want to touch it or look at it.

The last thing on the planet that I want is to be woken up by my alarm. So what I use is the Restore 2, and it's by this brand Hatch. And what it is is it's like a gradual sunrise alarm that wakes you up gently. It doesn't spike your cortisol. There's nothing worse being woken up by a loud, like vintage alarm. And it just rips you out of bed. And immediately you're like, where's the Sabretooth Tiger? No, this wakes you up gently.

And then it has this other feature. And this is a feature that I use for my children, too, when they're in our room. It's this little feature that you turn on at night and it helps you break your late night scrolling habit. What it does is it sort of turns red like a sunset and it has like a meditation. So it guides you to sleep. So what I'll do in my room is I'll turn off my lights. I'll maybe turn on my salt rock lamp and I'll put on my restore to and I'll set it to the sunset setting with a guided meditation. It is absolutely incredible. Make space for the rest in your life with Restore. store 2. This is one of my best sleep hacks. I can't even tell you. Head to hatch.com and get free

expedited shipping on your new restore to so you can start feeling well-rested ASAP. One of our producers, Carson, told us about top golf and I'm obsessed. This is such a good date night or a place to go with your friends. Top golf. It's golf. It's not golf. It's top golf. Let's get into it. Okay, so they have a bunch of stuff that makes them golf. Clubs, balls, tea, turf, they even have like a ball picker upper cart. They have a lot of things that make them not golf. Loud music, giant TVs, and handcrafted food and beverage menus. So you could like take all your friends and you could play. Even if you don't golf, it doesn't matter because everyone can play top golf, even if no one can swing a club. They also have food and beverage. So if you're more of a

leisurely luncher or diner, it's truly the only place you can play a round and then order another or hit a slice and then grab a slice. I'm into this. It's comfortable, it's heated. It's just like a really fun time. You know what I mean? I think this is super cute if you want to experience a vibe. Put down your phone and you can just play and have fun. You can eat. You can drink. And even it's so cool when you go, they have a bunch of arcade games. It's just a total vibe. So if you're looking for some fun and you want to do something different, then you have to check out TopGolf. We're going to do a Dear Media event at TopGolf. So we're going to bring the team and we're going to eat, drink, and maybe play. Like I said, it's golf, it's not golf, it's TopGall. Download the app, book a bay, and come play around.

And he says, Jessica, it's okay. We're the American military. You're safe now and we're going to take you home. Oh my God. You must have been like, thank God. Bad motherfuckers, those guys. Well, all I can say is he pulls a blanket down away from my face. And I can't see anything because it's really dark. Like this, it has clouded over. And I can see, like, sense that there are figures around me, but they're all black, right? They're black masks and stuff. All I can say over and over again is you're American. Wait, you're American? Wait, I don't understand. You're American. Like, how did you find me? How did you know I was out here? And he hands me a bottle of water and, and, and, and, I don't understand. You're American. Like, how did you, how did you find me? How did you find me? How did you find me? And he hands me a bottle of water and, and, and, and, and, some tablets like some medicine. He says, we've been watching you for a really long time and we know how sick you've been. And yeah, you're going to go home. What do you mean they've been watching you for? How long do they have to watch you for? Well, I mean, they've been watching. It's a very technical question to answer. But essentially, like, a military intervention is not anybody's first choice. It's very, very risky, right? There could be loss of life. You could lose the

hostage. There could be loss of life on the military side. And I, I believe that they had tried at least three or four times, but something had happened, and it wouldn't have been able to be executed. I mean, they got to get there at first and get in position. You know what's so interesting and Erie is you said that this was one night where everyone was asleep. And you mentioned the other nights, how people, someone would always be awake, but you mentioned, so the military must have known, however they knew that everyone was, like, knocked out. Like, then you can say what you want about the military, but when these guys go and they do, I mean, like, they take care of shit, right?

We don't even know the half of it. I had no idea that this was even a possibility. It's not like I was sitting there thinking, oh, that I'm an American and the military is going to come. I didn't know that they did stuff like that. I don't know. Maybe everybody else did, but I didn't. Again, it's something you see in a movie or hear about. You don't think it's actually real.

I'm like a lowly aid worker from Ohio. No one knows I'm out here. No one cares. With these stories on movies, though, you always see the person like you see the military coming and they help you. But my question is what happens in the next three hours. Are you transported somewhere? Do you see the people that had been capturing you?

Where did they go? Like, what is the... Do helicopters flying? You've got to go and get in a car and get to the coast? Like, how do you even get out of the country? Because I'm sure this is not... This is obviously not a warranted expedition here. Well, so one of them asks me if I can find my shoes

because we've got to get out of this proximity to this somewhere safe. I can't find my shoes. Like, I mean, I can't. Like, I don't even know my name at this point, you know? Yeah, when I say not warranted to, I want to clarify. The Somali government did not green light this or did they? I don't think I know the answer to that question. Okay. It's probably above my my pay grade. There are people think I know a lot more around that than I do. And I've signed lots of

papers that say I won't say anything. Sure. Sure. So he, I can't find my shoes. So he explains, okay, well, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pick you up. I'm going to put you over my shoulder and we're getting out of here. So that's what he does. He picks me up and throws me over his shoulder and I do have a very distinct memory of my head just like bobbing up and down and I'm just like how can this be my life. So he's just running just running you know and gets me to the place that's safe. My first question is is Paul here? Is he okay? Did he make it out alive? He did and he's sitting right there to my left and he leans over to me and he goes, Jessica, do you know who these guys are? And I'm like, I don't, I'm not sure I really care. Like we're getting out of here. That's all

that matters. And he says, this is a seal team. six. Like, these are the guys that got Osama bin Laden. And I mean, I just can't wrap my brain around it. And so at one point, they're not sure that what's happening over there. Like, the premises is safe. And so they have Paul and I lie down in about three or four of them actually lay down on top of us to protect us. And then the rest form a wall, like a shield. And we stay like that until the helicopters come in. There are these massive, like, helo, I don't know, the military terms for the aircrafts. should know by now, but I don't. It was important. I had to walk myself there because it was kind of far and, you know, my health is like deteriorating, but I do remember put my burkenstocks on. And like it was like all the adrenaline, right? Like this is my last, I don't know, like just this last act of survival, right? To like just get, they're helping me. We finally get onto the helicopter. I remember like throwing myself onto the floor on my stomach and scraping my way. to the other side and pressing my back up against it. And it wasn't until we were probably like

10,000 feet up into the air that I was like, I think I might have survived. I think I might be able to live through this. I think I'm going home. I have no idea of what I'm about to ask. So I would love to know. Why can't they, the United States just give the ransom money right away? Why do they have to go through 90 days of negotiation? Well, I imagine, I mean, that's pretty complicated, but I imagine it encourages more of that behavior then. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, the U.S. has a policy that they don't negotiate with terrorists or groups like this.

Most, I don't think there are any countries that would pay a ransom. So then why do the pirates even try to do it with the U.S.? If they know the U.S. doesn't negotiate with terrorists? They're not negotiating with the government. They're negotiating with the organization that I work for. Got it. My organization had kidnapped. being in ransom insurance. Most organizations should. If they don't, then they should be shut down.

And why didn't the organization? They did. They gave the money. You don't just pay. You have to negotiate. Why can't they just pay? Because it's an insurance company. So they, so it's like, it could take 90 days. It could take three years. Do you, do you think if you had not been rescued? What do you think would have happened? I would have died. Because of the kidney infection or because of the circumstances. I think the kidney infection would have gotten me first. But it happened as a result of the circumstances. I am sitting here having this conversation with you today because the U.S. government did put lives at risk and did go out there to save just this one.

And Paul, but, you know, he was an aside, right, because he's not an American citizen. I think that that is an important part of my message. You know, I'm not promoting going out and being reckless and putting yourself in unsafe situations. out all over the world. But what I am here to also say is that we don't have, we as Americans, I don't think largely have an understanding of what it means to belong to a country who will go at just unlimited capacity at what they will go to in order to bring their citizens home. And I remember after that helicopter ride, we were taken to an airfield in in Galkayo in Somalia and put on a plane and then we were taken to Djibouti to a military base where we spent 24 hours. We got medical

care. And I remember there was a young Marine in my hospital room. And he was, you could tell he was like Mr. Personality. Like he had been sent in there to like chat me up a little bit. And I haven't talked really to anybody in like three months. So I was having a really hard time with social skills wondering if maybe I'd lost them entirely. He says to me, President Obama is the person who called your dad personally to let him know that you survived and that you're coming home. I'm like, your information can't be right. Like that, that's not straight. And I, I was saying, you know, relating to him like, Paul throughout the captivity would be like, send in the Marines, you know, and I would get really mad at him and be like, Paul, you're from Denmark. There are like three million

people in your country. Like, I'm from America. We have like 400 million people. Like, no one knows we're here. No one cares. I was like Debbie Downer all the way. And I was telling him about that. And he said, that's, that's just so not true. And he held up his arm and he had a tattoo of missing in action and prisoners of war emblem on his forearm. And he said, this is for every American citizen. If we have it within our power to go out and rescue somebody, we don't leave any American citizen behind. You know, she's talking about the ones pound me in it. It's a black and white. Wow. When do you reunite with your husband? It would be about three or four days later. We were then taken to a military base in Italy and opted in to participate in the Department of Defense's hostage reintegration program. It was very regimented and had been very heavily researched. And I felt like, you know, they got me out of here. I feel like they're the experts. I knew I had made a commitment while I was out there to prioritize my mental health and my healing. from the get-go. So that was part of that for me. And so the first, I got a five-minute conversation with him on the phone when we were in Djibouti. And then a couple of days later, we had an hour together in the hospital. And then the next day, we were able to go to lunch, but it was supervised and everything was in stages. And I didn't understand at the beginning, but I understand, I understood during and then post why they do this because it's very, very overwhelming. Your loved one has had.

all this time to think about things and all the things they want to say and you've just been trying to stay alive. And so those mindsets maybe, those emotional states don't match up. And so it can be very overwhelming for the returning hostage. What else do they make you do? You said it's very routine. Yeah, like a lot of interviews with the FBI, a lot of intense like therapy. I had a psychiatrist that was assigned just to me and he was there to protect me. So if, the interviews were getting to be too much, then he would stop them and we would go take a walk. It was just a lot of like making sure for a long time, like days, they were, it was cold and snowing, but I kept insisting on walking around with no shoes and no socks because I'd been

doing that for so long and it felt very strange to have socks and shoes on. And so, you know, it was up to them to notice and be like, you know what, why don't we get you some flip flops? You know, because I, what I had on my body was taken into evidence. So I had, I had no clothes or shoes or anything left. So it was stuff like that, you know, bringing me toiletries for the first time and stuff. On a day-to-day basis now, what's different? What are the little tiny things that some people who are listening would not think about? Hmm. I mean, everything is kind of different. And I do. It's weird how like memories will just come out of the woodwork. I had a moment this morning, actually. And it's, I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened. I was, I had just showered. And I, I had just showered. And I

I was getting ready to come over here and I was laying on the bed in my hotel. And I had this overwhelming gratitude. And all I could say out loud to the universe and to Seal Team 6 and to myself was, thank you for saving me. You know, like, think that God saved me. You know, the universe was saved me and then Seal Team 6 saved me. And then I had to go back and save myself to. a large extent. And so I think that, you know, there are the very practical things. Like, I really do appreciate a shower, good shower, being able to take a bath. That still doesn't get old. Or knowing where my food has been a real big thing for me and I'm working through that with my therapist. Still, when you've been systematically starved for a long time, it's hard to regulate all of that when you come back out.

and it's been years, but it's still difficult. I'm thankful to have a food source. Anytime I get sick and I drive myself to urgent care, I am so grateful that I have access. Like on so many levels, you know, there's so many people in America who don't even have access to regular health care. So I think for a while I walked around and just shock. And then there was a lot of grief around having lost my job and my livelihood and having to rebuild a life that, you know, when you have you've suffered trauma, like it changes things fundamentally cellularly in your body and in your mind. But then the physical surroundings changed too. We had to leave Africa because it was too hard for me. I got pregnant a month after the rescue with my son, which also threw me for a loop,

but has, you know, been its own journey. I think the thing that, that has changed in me is that I am just really, really grateful and not like I'll take the table scraps and, you know, all this. I'm lucky for whatever I get. It's just like this really intentional gratitude to be in this body and to be in this chair right now talking to you. Like, it just feels so real. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, especially with what you've been through. So Paul is okay too? I believe so. I mean, he was rescued successfully.

We don't have a relationship. No relationship. Is that intentional? Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of negligence on his part in my organization around why this happened in the first place. There was a kidnapping threat that was not disclosed to me.

Oh, wow. So I would say that that has been my forgiveness journey, actually, not really the pirates. I bet you, after all this has. happened that you crave sitting in silence, I would think. Oh my God. How did you know that? I just, once you start sitting in silence, you want more and more and more. Hint, hint, hint. I am very committed to silence. It's nice probably to sit in silence and just be able to, with everything you've been through, sort of go through your thoughts. Well, we talk about, like I said earlier, all the time on the show, it's like maybe disconnecting and getting away and not being so hyper-connected.

Obviously, I don't think everybody should even, you know, like the example that you, the thing you went through, like nobody should have to go through that. But just, you know, once in a while getting a little bit less of this. I'm holding up my phone for people listening and a little bit less of just being so inundated with so much because I think, you know, as a species, we've gotten away from a lot of that, right? And it's hard to figure out who you are and connect with yourself and to your point, even kind of go back and think about and contemplate what you really want out of life. Well, and I think that these things happen so that we have the opportunity. to meet ourselves in a way that we couldn't have ever met ourselves before. And so I think that

can translate to anybody's darkest moment. You know what you're made out of. You know, yeah, what you want. And you can't do that to your point unless you spend a lot of time in silence. I had, it was, he was a veteran asked me once, is the only time anybody's ever asked me. And he works very much in veterans' affairs and PTSD. And he said, do you ever kind of want to go back to that place? Because you had reached a point of like such contentment and solitude within yourself? And I was like, yes, actually, yes. Because there is, I mean, outside of the guns and all of that stuff.

But for the most part, like, there's no, there's nothing. competing for my attention. There are very few demands. All you have to do is survive. That's it. You don't have to make any decisions. Same thing happens to prisoners. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It come out into the- It's very complex. This is very, it seems like it's a very complex situation. Yeah. People can't understand why sometimes, and listen, I've never experienced it either, but when people get out of prison, why they sometimes want to go back. Right. Because everything was, you didn't have to make any decisions, right? It's very overwhelming. And I don't think I was out there long enough for that to become my reality. Yeah, I'm very intentional. What happened to the pirates?

So the nine that were on the ground that night died? That wiped out. That was it. Yeah. So that must bring you a little bit of comfort, though, in a way? I don't think so. I think that things are not black and white. They get gray really fast. I don't feel like I've suffered Stockholm syndrome. I was not devoted to their cause, but I was there as an aid worker, right? So I was there to try to help build infrastructure and educate and all the things. And it makes me really sad when people don't have any other options other than crime to keep their children alive. Right. And so in a way, I kind of get it. You almost sound like you feel empathy for them. Yes. Well, because it's like, that's what I was, and it, it's a very hard issue, which I know you

have thought about way more than us. But to your point, if this all kind of originated because there's no resources, no way to make a living, then the fishing gets taken from. And there's literally nothing to feed themselves or their family. To your point, like help or make, like these guys, it's not like they woke up in the one day and said, I can't wait to do this when I'm older. Yeah, I don't think that the majority, some people are born evil. Sure. But I don't think these men did. They, they just didn't have any options. And the little boy? I don't know what happened to him. I'm glad that he wasn't there that night. I think that that would have been really hard for me to to cope with. I'm glad to. Yeah. You wrote a book. You've also written another book that was in New York

Times bestselling. Tell us about both books. So Impossible Odds came out in 2013. I co-wrote that with my husband, Eric. It's called Impossible Odds, The Kidnapping of Jessica Buchanan and Her Dramatic Rescue by Seal Team 6. And that's really an account. It's memoir of that particular, that slice of our lives and our experience. And then the book that just came out is called Deserts to Mountain Tops, journey to reclaiming our voice and it's an anthology. It is 22 chapters. It's 25 women's voices that I've collected. I'm the lead author and it's really written around this theme of recognizing that we all have a desert to mountain top experience and we probably will have many in our lifetimes. And that journey that we we go through to get to what our mountaintop is and for women I think a lot of

us feel like we have lived our lives with very little voice and at some point in time it was silenced. And so there are incredible stories in this anthology of strength and survival and inspiration and women who have reclaimed their voice. And the stories are as different as the women are. But I'm very proud the work that I'm doing now and that they have shared their stories in such a beautiful way. And where can you find your book and your Instagram? All the things. Anywhere you buy books. Instagram. Instagram.

Jessica C. Buchanan. I hang out there probably way too much. So have you gotten on TikTok? A little. I feel like your story would really resonate there. People love stories on that app. Yeah, that's true. I'll explore that maybe a little bit later.

Beautiful job. Thank you so much for coming on. Your story is so inspiring. What a story. Thank you for having me. Wild. Thank you, Jessica. I cannot wait to read your book.

Thank you. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you, guys. This episode was brought to you by the Skinny Confidential. Don't forget to go shop one of our only sales of the year. Use code Pink Bash for 20% off excluding kits and gift cards. Go to shopskinnyconfidential.com and use code Pink Bash. If you would like to win a copy of Jessica's book signed by her,

all you have to do is tell us who you want to hear next on the Skinny Confidential, him and her podcast on my latest post at Lauren Bostic and make sure you've rated and reviewed the podcast on iTunes. With that, we'll see you next time.