The Bossticks - Loren Gray On Blackmail, New Media, Parenting With Social Media, & Managing Internet Fame

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

#577:  Today we're welcoming Loren Gray to the show. Loren became the most followed person on musical.ly (now known as TikTok) at the age of 13 years old, and has amassed a following of over 55 million on Instagram and TikTok. Today we're sitting down with Loren to discuss all things internet stardom: how she handled sudden fame at a young age, the lessons she's learned about friendships & why she likes to keep her circle small and emphasize quality over quantity when it comes to her friendships. We also discuss growing up in the age of the internet and she shares deatils into how her parents supported her career & provided her with space to grow as a young creator, while still monitoring and protecting her as their child. We discuss everything from parenting in the age of the internet & how some parents in Hollywood will take advantage of their famous children, to how the industry sexualizes young female creators and what it's like to be taken advantage of by the entertainment industry. We lastly get into the positive side of social media and how she cultivated a supportive community of over 55 million, how she's taking charge of her singing career, and what's coming up for her in the future. To connect with Loren Gray click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE Subscribe to our YouTube channel HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Vitaclean Vitaclean is a triple-filter, Vitamin-C infused aromatherapy shower head that removes toxins from your shower, prevents product buildup in your hair, and calms skin irritation. Go to vitacleanhq.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off shower heads and starter kits. This episode is brought to you by Nutrafol Nutrafol is the #1 dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement, clinically shown to improve your hair growth, thickness, and visible scalp coverage. Go to nutrafol.com and use code SKINNYHAIR to save $10 off your first month's subscription, plus free s This episode is brought to you by Ritual Instead of striving for perfect health, aim for supporting foundational health. Go to ritual.com/skinny to receive 10% off your first 3 months. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business. Go to squarespace.com/skinny for a free trial & use code SKINNY for 10% off your first purchase of a website domain. This episode is brought to you by 21 Seeds 21Seeds Infused Tequila makes the most delicious and easy margaritas and cocktails so you can focus on the fun! Visit 21seeds.com to find 21Seeds near you & enjoy responsibly. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. Okay, I have to tell you that I woke up in Vegas the other morning and I was hung over and my face was just like so puffy and I used the pink balls facial massager by the skinny confidential. You should know that I designed every single facet of this facial massager to give you the best experience, especially in the morning. So it's going to contour your face. It's going to give you an instant facelift.

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confidential.com. Use code dreamy for 15% off. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to to the skinny confidential, him and her. Labels don't do what they used to do. Back then you'd pitch to a label, and then if they liked you and they thought you were marketable enough, they would market you, they would build you.

Now what happens is you make you, then a label comes along and goes, hey, I want a piece of that, I'll throw some money at you up front, and then just keep doing everything yourself. And the second that you need my help, maybe I'll do it if that's what I want to do. Your artistic vision completely goes out the window.

You're doing things you don't really want to do and everything just feels like you're a cog in this machine when you could have been doing exactly what you wanted to do and that's what I did because that was what made sense for me. So there are ways to do it without like giving your entire vision away. Hello, Michael and I had the pleasure of sitting down with Lauren Gray. You may have heard of her. She became one of the most followed people on musically, now known as TikTok, at the age of 13 years old.

And she is amassed a following of over 55 million on Instagram and TikTok. I love sitting down with people who have blown up like this on social media because it's really fun to see the other side and to hear what it's actually like living their life. And I think that sometimes we just see like the glamour and the positive side. and we don't actually see the whole picture. So in this episode, we're going to go all over the place. We're going to talk about how she created a supportive community. We're going to talk about being sexualized by the entertainment industry, the positive side of social media, but also the negative side.

Controversy surrounding parents of children in the spotlight, becoming internet famous at 13 years old. And she's really, really going to take you behind the scenes. I mean, I was shocked at how vulnerable she was. on this episode. You should also know that there is a discussion about sexual assault in this episode, and we talk about Hollywood blackmail. There's all different kinds of things in this episode, and I just think that this is someone who knows how to speak on a mic. She really gives you all the details. On that note, let's welcome Lauren Gray. She's a singer, she's a songwriter, and a successful entrepreneur to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. When you go out and you walk down the

street and you go out to eat, do people just come up to you all the time? Yeah. Yeah. And what's the energy of it? Is it like, is it like aggressive? Is it nice? I've had every interaction you can imagine. I've had obviously really awesome interactions with people. I've had parents that are like really rude sometimes. Why the parents upset? It's always the, it's always the parents that are the most because they don't know who I am. I don't expect them to. But they'll come up to me. They're like, my kid wants a picture with you and just kind of like shove their kid over at me. It's like, I don't know. I think.

Oh, I thought they were coming up to you and like yelling at you for their kids watching you. There could be. I hope not. There could be. I would invite everyone to consider that there could be an underlining energy that the parent, that you're so successful. And maybe the parent had dreams and ambitions when they were their age or your age, that they didn't get to live out.

And there's, there's almost like a. reflection of them. No, I could totally see that, which is unfortunate because it just makes me feel bad. I don't know. I feel like there's a certain expectation sometimes when people come up to you. And I'm always nice, not a mean person by any means, but there are certain times from like, man, I have to sit here and smile and you're being. Well, people sometimes too, like they don't pick the right pocket of time. Yeah. Like I, listen, it's not the same level, but, you know, we've been doing this kind of thing for a long time, putting ourselves out there for a long time. And I try to be super vocal.

Like, again, nice people, very appreciative of us. But, like, if I'm with my daughter somewhere, I'm not going to be as. Or your mid bite. Yeah, or, like, I got, like, a piece of steak hanging out of my mouth. Like, they're just like, they've got to pick the right pocket, you know? Yeah. And I, I really appreciate it. But, like, there was a time where I was at a birthday dinner and it was two really long booths.

and I was all the way on on the inside. And I had to make everyone in the booth get out to like take it up the train. I felt so bad. Wrong pocket of time. And it's it's less that I feel that I feel inconvenienced. I hate inconveniencing my friends and people who are with me because I'm like, man, I must be really annoying to be around. What is it like with all your friends that see the success that you've had at such a young age? I have very few friends.

I have two, I would say three best friends that I hang out with and that I see. see and that I really trust. But outside of that, I feel like everyone's just someone that I see every now and then. But two people that I hang out with every day, my best friend and her boyfriend, and my friend from back home, and that's it. And so are these friends that you've had for a long time? Yeah. So my friend from home, we've been best friends since fifth grade and then Brooke, who's outside, we've, I don't even remember we met maybe 2017. She would know better than me, but we've been friends for a long time too. And why do you think it is that you have? have a few good friends.

I used to have more friends. Before. Yeah, but there was like a lot of instances. It sounds so childish to say, but just like backstabby things and really unfortunate things. Like I had a friend who her phone broke and she was one of my best friends and I lent her my phone and she leaked like my camera roll to like drama pages. Yeah. So that was really unfortunate. I had another friend who, like, booked a show and then stopped talking to me because it wasn't

cool to be friends with me anymore. So there was, like, a couple just things that really hurt. So now I keep my circle pretty small. I like it that way. It sucks when things are happening, like my birthday. I'm like, oh, I'm going to point to this because I have maybe like four people that I like to hang out with and that I really trust. No, it's, it's, I imagine it's a strange thing.

And, you know, we see it on different levels when you start to develop a platform like yours. and then, you know, you're trying to develop authentic relationships and you're constantly siphoning through like, hey, who's here for the right reasons? Right. Yeah. I mean, it's, I've always had this problem. Like, I've, and I think it's more of a me thing. Like, I have a hard time trusting people, even when I was really young because I was bullied and there was a lot of things that may not trust people. So I've always kind of been that way. And my mom's that way too. She has like her two friends. My dad has maybe one friend. plus me. And that's, I don't know, it's just sort of how I was raised and I'm, I don't know,

I'm happy that way. Honestly, though, as you get older, like the smaller quality friend group that you have, I think it's very mature of you to have realized early that you really have to keep, you don't need to have 600 friends. Yeah. And it's not a choice I made. I mean, you have 27 million friends online. So I feel like you already get a lot of energy. I'm serious. You get so much energy from all that. Like at the end of the day, you probably want to just be around your close friends. I like the idea of having like three ride or die friends and like a thousand acquaintances. 100%. I agree. You know, so like when they see you, they're like really happy to see you and you can have fun, but then you leave and you don't have to like do much. It's just like it was good.

It was good and then it was gone. I have that a lot. I have people like there are so many people coming to my birthday party that I only see when I'm like something is happening. And it's just like. It's It's completely fine. Like, we're happy that way. But the people that are, I also feel like my life is pretty intense. So I feel like the people that are around me have to have to be okay and be able to adapt to that in a way and be understanding a lot of times. So, yeah, I'm really lucky to have the friends that I have. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

It's not like I chose to not have a lot of friends. I just, it happened naturally. And I also am not the person who has the energy to entertain a lot of people all the time. Well, you're into it all the time. So when I am with my friends, I just kind of want to, there's no pressure at all. I get it. It's like you don't want to overcompensate for the energy when you're already putting all this content out there for all these people on so many different platforms. You're tired.

Yeah. And it's like I'm a personality all the time. I don't have to be a personality with my friends too. I get it. I relate to this. When did your parents know? Like, what age do you have an epiphany of when they knew that? you were doing something that was different than the other kids.

Okay, I have a really funny story about this. And my mom has always been really into manifesting and her spirituality. And I love her for it. My dad's a scientist. And my mom's like manifesting and smudging the house. But my mom, when I was around 12, I started modeling. And I was acting kind of taking acting classes for fun. I grew up in Philly.

so I would just go to New York to take the train or my mom would drive me obviously I was really young we would go together my mom was not sending me to New York on my own you have to be so careful you can't say everyone yeah my mom's a great mother you have to clarify all that they just come in all of the time I have to pretty much clarify everything I say

she was opening the windows when she smudged yes so I we were exactly we would go there a lot and it was something that I enjoyed and as a kid so I was fun but you were in the car and I think I was about to turn 13 and I remember exactly where we were and my mom goes, you're gonna be famous. And I was like, oh, I don't want that. I don't want anyone my business. I would hate that. I was like, it's gonna happen. And not even

less than six months later, all of my stuff on Musically, which is now TikTok started to happen kind of naturally. And so I feel like My mom kind of always knew in a way. I always performed. I was a cheerleader and I did competitive cheerleading. And I sang all the time. And that's just what I enjoyed doing was entertaining. And I used to do like little acting monologues for my parents all the time.

From what age? Like, when are you starting to see this? Oh my gosh. Forever. I was always dancing, always singing. I had a little karaoke machine before that. I had a video game where you could sing a long. that my parents got me for Christmas.

As soon as I was in sports, I wanted to be the best at every sport. And I've never been good at anything naturally. So everything that I've been interested in, I've had to work really hard at. I'm decent at everything, but to be good at something, it takes a lot of effort for me. So to answer your question, I feel like I always was bound to do something performance-wise. But once all of the musically stuff started happening and people started recognizing, me in public. I feel like that's when my parents were like, okay. But as soon as I got on musically, my mom was, take this down. That's inappropriate. No. And I was, I will admit I was a little

out there. But my mom was instantly on it and figured it out and like was monitoring everything all of the time. What's the first video that like went crazy? To be honest, I don't remember because I didn't know that musically itself was a platform. So I didn't know that it was some, you know, somewhere to post. So I was saving the videos and sending them to my camera roll and uploading them at the same time. Wait, you were saving the videos on like TikTok, but it was musically. It was musically at the time. And I would save the videos to my camera roll, but they were also being uploaded. And I didn't know I was uploading them. Oh, someone else told me that they would save the videos thinking they saved it, but it was uploading. Yeah. So then I started getting a bunch of

random people following my Instagram. And you're 13 at the time. Yeah, I'm 13. And I'm like, what is this? Where are these coming from? And then when I finally, figured it out. I think someone told me I had like 30,000 followers on there. And every video of mine was getting featured, which is now the free page. So like logistically, it's there. It's, it was different but kind of the same except your videos were featured instead of just being on the for you page. I have like a personal question. So yeah, not for you. This is more like a personal question for me. I have a daughter. Okay. And when she gets on social media, what are things that I can do to protect her space, but also let her be creative because I don't want to micromanage to the

point where she's not able to create, but I also want to make sure I'm protecting her and doing my due diligence. What's the line? It's hard for me to answer because I don't have kids and I don't know what I would have done differently, but what did your mom do that you think was really great? So I'll give you like, I'll date us a little bit so you can like kind of see some of the, make, I'll make the wrinkles on the forehead make sense. So we didn't have smartphones. until we were graduating college. Right. Like we had the ones you flipped open and like played snake on.

And so we like our gender, like we're right on the cusp of or obviously we use isn't an understanding it. But we went through middle school, high school, college without this. So like nobody saw what we were like I remember when Facebook came out. We would take digital cameras and upload the entire album in of one night. Yeah.

And so I think it's like it's interesting for us to think about like, oh my God, what if we would have had what do you guys? guys grew up with at our disposal, like what we have done, what we do differently? And like, it's interesting to think about with kids. Like, I don't know what the balance is. Because I don't even know what I would do with my own kids to protect them because I was exposed to a lot. But I also feel like you can't completely protect and micromanage to an extent. I feel like for me, it was more so, okay, how do I go about this, knowing that there's going to be people that are weird and like, you know, there's going to be weird.

things and there's going to be people saying mean things, how do I be the best person that I can be on the internet? And how can I use the internet responsibly? So I feel like if you're on the internet, it's going to happen and you have to be prepared for those things. The thing that worries me the most is like the men and the predators and the like those sort of things that happen because it's pretty intense. I was watching like documentaries on it recently. No, I'm not worried about I think that we're equipped, especially with what we do to kind of, and listen, you never know as a parent, but to try to help our child understand and navigate what it means to put yourself out online. Right. Like we would basically understand the conversations that need to take place in order to kind of like teach them to be responsible. What worries me the most about this is exactly what you're talking about is predatory people that have access to young children. Yeah. You know, at an age, like we didn't think about that because we were grown adults, right? Like you guys are the first generation that. truly grew up with this. Yeah.

If anyone's seen predatory people on the internet, I mean. Oh my goodness. No, she's so beautiful. She's 13 years old. You're dancing. Like, how do you even handle that? You just block them? I mean, there are ways to filter and obviously do all of that.

But I also just kind of became immune to it in a way. Like I knew people were going to say disgusting things because, and I was just so used to it. But at what age? Oh my gosh. As soon as I started. Yeah. Like 13, 14. Those are like the prime ages that they love.

Yeah. So that's what, fuck, I'm going to go to jail. No, it's so disgusting when you see like someone post their child on TikTok and they're in the bath and there's like 120,000 saves. And then like there's like a video of them like just going to school and a full close. And there's like 300 saves. And you're like, what is going on? This is really fucking disgusting.

I think I, for example, would post a video in a sports bra, not thinking anything. And my mom would be like, take that down. At what age? 13. Because I was a cheerleader. And to me, that was like what I wore to practice. And I wasn't thinking. But the second I started getting attention, my mom was monitoring everything.

And she, I feel like the biggest thing as a parent that really helped and that my parents always did with me was they would tell me why. Right. Take that down. Here's why. Let's not do this. And this is why. And I feel like those are the things that stuck with me rather than just feeling like my parents were sort of hub. hovering over me. I had the freedom, but if I was going to make a decision, they were going to

tell me why. Because the internet has, I feel like the internet has made children adults so much faster. I mean, even I still had a chance before phones and things like that. I didn't get a phone really. I had a flip phone when I was like 10 to contact my parents when I was around in my neighborhood. But I wasn't posting on social media until I was like 13, 14. And even that happened really fast for me. But the landscape was different, right? It was like, I have a private account for my school friends and we're posting like collages and have our besties and our bio. That was the vibe. Now it's very much so. And it's kind of upsetting to see in a way because, you know, there's little girls who are like makeup and outfit and worried about those things

and worried about things that people my age are worried about because it's all on the same playing field because we're all on the internet. So there's no evolution. It's just they know what's cool already and they're there. And that's really scary to me. I mean, I guess I was to an extent, but I still had a little bit of difference there. I also think it sounds like you had a really good foundation at home and not everyone has that. Yeah, I was really, I mean, my parents are great. I wouldn't change anything about them. They were very protective, but they let me, live. They let me express myself and do my thing, but they were still protective and never forced me to do anything I didn't want to do. And that's something I've seen so often with so many kids who are influencers. I mean, there's a whole underbelly that people don't even know about about kids who are being exploited by their parents on social media. And it's terrible to see. And I've seen it with my own eyes. And it's... No, this is going to rub. I know this is,

even to people that listen to this show that are probably are just going to rub them the wrong way. I don't like when people use their children to make an income. I guess I am kind of passing judgment. I think it's... I don't think it should rub people the wrong way. Yeah, I think it's strange. Like, I understand wanting to share your family. And I understand, you know, there's a lot of money in this space, as you well know.

And it's a lot more money than many people seeing their entire life. And what starts to happen, it's like, they're, oh, this is good for... They justify by saying this is good for our family. but it's at the expense of someone who doesn't really have a say. Yeah. I've talked about this so many times. I've seen it firsthand where parents do not have their children's best interest at heart. And I can't speak on their experience.

But from my personal experience, I'm very blessed to be in the position I was in where my parents didn't touch my money. My parents never, my mom never came in my room and said, you need to make a video. Like, we need to film this. My mom never followed me around with a camera. I can't imagine how that would have felt. because everything that I did was at my own discretion, which is why I love doing it, because it's always been me. It's always been my words and what I wanted to say, my parents would monitor it to make sure I was safe.

But outside of that, there's more people, I think, than the public taking in and consuming these videos even realizes the kids are behind the scenes being like forced into it. Or bribed or say, you'll get a toy or you get to watch this. Yeah. And even older kids, older kids that are like 13, 14. 14, 15, their parents are sort of like ushering them around to these parties in L.A. and the kids are confused and they're not having fun and their moms are like, smile in front of the brand posters or else this person's not going to work with these. They're really young. It's almost like the new age, McColley Colkin parents. Yeah. Like it's, it's essentially the new

like child star with the parents that are pocketing the money and then McCollie Colkin never gets to see it. And then he has to sue his parents. And it becomes this whole. power dynamic and I can imagine as a parent that it works for you until it doesn't meaning like you want the kid to work like a workhorse and then you get the money but if they outshine you then that that's a whole different dynamic I think it has to also do with you know listen I think there's a few things I think some people use it as a as a way to kind of get attention that they may have never had themselves before right like hey now we have this family and we can do that I think some people greed plays into it right where they start making money and it's a lot of

of money they've never seen before. I think that there's other instance of it where parents start to feel and they start to kind of, again, delude themselves into thinking like, hey, this is good for the family. It's good for the other kids. And living vicariously through their children. Yeah. And so like to me, it's just kind of a, it's a messy, kind of dirty situation when you're using someone who doesn't fully have the faculties to make those decisions themselves to make an income. Right. And they really can't, they don't know what their future is. going to hold. And you're not setting them up for their future. You're setting them up for what money you can make right now. And like I said, I feel like I wouldn't be as passionate about it

if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But I'm very, very lucky. And it's almost 80% of the time. It's the parents. And I'm very, very lucky to be part of that 20%. My parents protected me. Now, I was sexualized and all sorts of awful things, but that wasn't at the fault of my parents. They were doing everything they could, and this was what I wanted to do. So, of course, I ran into those things, and it's really unfortunate. I'm really grateful for my parents, and I feel like I have to say that a lot, because sometimes people can't believe that, oh, my God, you're on the Internet so young. It's like, that's what I wanted to do, and my parents protected me to the best that they could.

And at the end of the day, I feel like I came out okay. And I definitely got the better end of the stick when it comes to being an influencer. I don't say this to discourage anyone, but I think you're somebody who's clearly made a career out of it. Right. There's a lot of people that put themselves out in the same kind of way, but they don't get the same kind of following response. They don't make a career out of it, but that stuff's still out there and there's still these kind of predatory actions that exist in the world, right? Yeah. So I think like it's dicey.

And I, this is, it's interesting because, and I was not trying to kind of like distinguish between age here, but you guys really are the first generation that grew up with it. And you're the first generation of kids that had parents that had to help them navigate it. We're like, our parents didn't have to think about this ever. Which is why there is a part that you have to have empathy for the parent. No, that's what I'm saying. Like, even now that I've become a parent, I have so much more empathy for my parents. I can look at them and be so much more pragmatic and be like, oh, I can.

and see why they did that. And I think with the same will be with a lot of this generation is like, your parents didn't have a manual of how to raise someone. Oh my gosh, no. Like they don't, they did the best they could with what they had. Even us. I mean,

this is like this outside doing the show. Obviously, we're surrounded by this. Do this professionally managed, produce. All that's like, you know, I've been here for a while.

And we are still as parents confused on how to handle this and what to do. Like we, like, I think if we don't have the answers and we're around it all day long and see it every angle. Like your parents, it's probably like, they didn't know. Yeah.

They were sort of thrown into it too because it was a, I mean, y'all have more experience with it because you've lived it, but they never lived it. So they had to learn alongside me. And like I said, very grateful. And I can't speak on anyone else's experiences or journeys. I just know what I've seen. And I don't know. I feel a little extra like I have to defend my parents because the Brooks Shields documentary just came out. And I was included in that. And no one talked to me about that. I was like included in what kind of way? In the trailer and in clips where I wasn't spoken to about it beforehand. Well, what, like, so what are they, I mean, what are they putting you in there for? I empathize with Brookshield story. It was a lot about being over-sexualized and being a child in the industry. And she was speaking on how sort of, I guess, things have, how it is now, how it is today.

And a video of me was used in the trailer when she's like talking about that. And a video of me was used in the actual documentary. And I had friends' parents sending me videos being like, did you consent to this? And I was like, no, no one brought that to my attention. And I completely empathize with her story. But at the same time, my narrative is my narrative. And it was kind of a weird slap in the face to be included in... It's ironic.

And that narrative, right? And that's what I'm saying. Because then there's... So she was talking about this narrative and that used you as an example of what she's talking about. She's talking about how she was sexualized as a child and taken advantage of. And then she spoke on it and they included her clip. No, they just included clips of me like on carpets and my TikToks. So you weren't talking about the Brook Shields situation.

It was just you... No, it was just me on TikTok or me on red carpet. But without your consent. No, they were using her as an example of, look, what happens to young girls like a sexualized. And absolutely, there have been instances where I've been sexualized and taken advantage of by the industry. But I also think it's unfair to include me in a narrative that I was unaware of until my friends and family and people that I know and parents of my friends are seeing it on this thing. And now people are asking questions of worried. And I have to sort of defend myself and my parents and my upbringing.

And there are aspects that I've spoken about about being, you know, sexualized and taken advantage of by people in the industry. But that's my story to tell, just as that's her story to tell. And I just didn't really love being thrown into that and being a part of someone else's story as like an example, as like a look what happens. Because I'm doing just fine. And if we would have talked about it, sure. And it was me alongside of other, you know, girls. And again, that's their story to tell. But I just, I feel like it was a little bit ironic.

Yeah, because the whole documentary is people being taking advantage of. And not for nothing, but there are videos of me underage as a child on red carpets. And if that's what you're going up against, then let's talk about it and let's compare stories. And before we just throw a video in of me to like prove your point, I don't know. Because I feel like I have a lot to say and I have a story of my own and then to have to defend myself to my friends, parents and people who have seen the documentary and just randomly see a video of me on there. And I didn't even know about it in the trailer even.

I'm like, man, if that's the point you're trying to prove, then like let's talk about it. But let's not just throw me into it. It's hypocritical. Yes. It's completely hypocritical. And just hurtful because I'm like, man, I do things like this all of the time to talk about the ways that I've been affected by the industry. But then people are watching this documentary thinking that, you know, my parents are bad people or that, you know, this is my truth. Or, you know what I mean?

It just makes that connection where it could have just been left up to me. to talk about my own. Do you think it's her putting this, or do you think the producers just found somebody? Oh, I'm sure it was the producers. I mean, I'm sure Brooke Shields doesn't even know who I am. You know what I mean? I'm sure she doesn't even know. But it's also just the principle of like someone on that team, if they knew what the documentary

was going to be about, right? It's about the sexualization, the sort of taking away agency from children in the industry. Well, that's exactly what you just did. That's what you just did. And that was kind of like, okay, I feel like someone should have been, you know, aware enough to notice that. No consent from them either. And listen, it's free. Like, it was videos of me on a carpet, right?

So they're free to use. But morally, like, if that's the point you're making, then there should, I feel like there should have been more. And it wouldn't have been as big a deal to me if there wasn't so many people asking me about it in my personal life. And I was like, no, I didn't know that. One of my best friends' moms was like, is this true? I'm like, well, no. I mean, I have had those stories, but that's my story. One thing that I feel like people are not talking about enough is their shower head.

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reason, they offer a 30-day money-back guarantee. That's viticlean.com, use code skinny. recently I changed my hair color from blonde to burnet. I'm absolutely loving it, but I wanted to make sure that I did it in the most healthy way possible. And so what I've been doing is three things. I have been doing tons of scalp massage, like I'm constantly stimulating my scalp. I've also been really focused on like hair serums and just making sure that I'm using products that support my hair transition. And then lastly, I am supplementing with Nutraful. Per usual, you should not be surprised about this. So Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement. Everyone is talking about it, like literally behind the scenes. My hairstylists are talking about it.

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and entering the promo code skinny hair. You save $10 off your first month's subscription. this offer is only available to U.S. customers for a limited time. Plus, you get free shipping on every order. Get $10 off in NutraFol.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code skinny hair. So from your perspective, as somebody who has been doing this now for a while and grown up with this, for the parents out there, like, what is the safe and responsible way, if you could wave a magic wand and say, hey, I'm cleaning up the internet and I'm going to make this safe?

What are people supposed to do? Or is this just, you know, something we're going to live with for the rest of time? I'm not expecting you to know that fully, but I just like, if you're a perfect world. There's a few different ways I could go with this. For one, I feel like a lot of the times, especially with everything we just spoke about, a lot of times it's, let's not exploit our children for money. But for the parents with good intentions who, like you're saying, you want your child to have fun and not be left out of the world and express themselves. I feel like you just have to make sure that your kid is as equipped as they can be to handle what's coming at them and be able to tell, okay, this isn't a safe person to talk to.

This isn't a safe person to interact with. And, I mean, I think monitoring to a degree, like I told you, my parents did. My parents knew everything that I was posting. Did they always agree with it? No. And then they would tell me to take it down and tell me why. And it was never, I never felt like I didn't have a voice or like I was being, you know, sort of constricted by my parents. I understood what they were saying because they presented it in a way that made sense.

This is also kind of a controversial thing. I don't think it's a platform issue as much as it is a parenting issue. And the reason I say that is the platforms obviously have a place to play in this, but they're not going anywhere, right? Like none of these platforms are going on. And you know exactly what to expect. you sign up for that. You know what I mean? It's just another thing now that parents are going to have to, they're going to have to parent for. Like it's, it's not going away. It's something our children to grow up with. You can't just blame platforms. You have to take active participating roles in your children's life that are, if they're going to be on these platforms. You have to educate them. And again, explain why they should be doing certain things, why they shouldn't. That's all you can really do as a parent. You can't, you're not going to be able to kick and scream and have these things go away. Like this is the world we live in now. Yeah. And I don't know. I just think. My parents did such a good job of raising me that I just would recommend exactly what they did because I feel like I did. I mean, I made mistakes, of course, and they couldn't protect me from everything, but they did the best they could.

Your parents should honestly write a book. I'm not joking. This is going to be a huge hot topic, I think, moving forward. Yeah. How to navigate someone who becomes famous on the Internet and how to monitor them in a way that's not overbearing, but that's not too little. Or even someone who doesn't who's just putting themselves. Yeah, your parents to write a book. It sounds like they did. They're like very, I mean, my never touched any money ever, nothing. All of my money was mine. From the moment I earned my first whatever it was $100 that it was mine.

And they never touched it. And my mom knew, because I had business managers by the time I was like 16. And she knew she was in everything and she could. see what was happening and where money was going. Still, to this day, if there is something, my money's being moved or something's happening, my mom, what's going on there? Because my mom used to work at a bank, so she's like, she's in it. But they, they protect me from afar. My parents do not like being on camera. They, like, both my parents have the worst anxiety. And they have always just helped me from behind the scenes and done what they could. And that's really all they could

do. I mean, they, it's just, I'm very, very lucky to have parents who didn't want to be famous. No, you're right. I mean, I think you're 100% right. There's nothing else they could have done. I think even if you try to take these platforms away from kids, it's like everybody knows the kids growing up whose parents like never touch drugs, never touch alcohol. And like as soon as those kids get a chance to go off and experiment, they, they, you know, pedal to the metal. Because they've been told no without being told why? Yes. I was never told no, but because my dad's a scientist, it was, okay, this is what this drug does. your body, into your brain. And my parents always treated it as, Lauren, you're smarter. Lauren, you're better than this. And they never knocked me down or made me feel bad when I made a mistake. And I always felt safe going to my parents. And that's another thing that's really important

is your kids have to feel safe talking to you. Because the one thing that saved me in so many different situations was I knew that my mom wasn't going to judge me or knew my dad wasn't going to judge me or make me feel bad about myself. It was like, Lauren, you're better than this. Let's learn from this and let's not do this again. You know? So I feel like I was, I wasn't really yelled at. I was just redirected and I don't know. I, I don't know. I love my parents. They're great. So what are the like, at this point in your life, what are the, we've been going on? on all the sexual trauma and parenting and what to, but what are the things that you're loving right now?

Like, what are the things that you're happy about with, with, you know, the successes you've had here on these kind of platforms? I think I'm really lucky that I've been able to sort of grow up alongside people. It's like a really special thing to be able to grow up alongside kids, my age, who have looked to me and sort of felt like they're my friend. And I kind of felt the same way. I did feel the same way because I still do because I didn't, have a lot of friends. So I sort of turn to the internet to surround myself with that community

and I grew up with those people. It's opened so many doors. I always wanted to make music. Now I can make music independently and go on tour. I'm going on tour with Hunter Hayes, which is like one of my favorite country artists ever. So things like that, the doors that it's opened, writing the music I want to write, doing the things that I want to do. I was just in a movie, which was awesome. But I think the main thing for me is just the community that I've gotten to build and the, I guess, the voice I've gotten to have and the fact that I can come on here and talk to you guys and say, this is my experience and I don't know, learned from other people who are going through the same things. Yeah, there's a lot of amazing things about it.

Well, yeah, I was trying not to paint a picture of just like, you know, terrible things. It's obviously like you wouldn't be doing it if you didn't love it. No, I love it. And I always have, and that's why I continued doing it. And that's why I've been doing it for eight years. Pretty much my entire life, my whole childhood was on the internet. I think the number one thing is the community. And that's why I couldn't ever stop because that's what has gotten, not just gotten me here, but gotten me here emotionally as well. Sort of growing up alongside people.

It says here that someone blackmailed you. Yeah. What happened with that? Is it like through DM? Like how can someone blackmail you on the internet? Like what are the ways? Yeah, I think what you might be referring to is when I was 13, right before I started social media, I was assaulted. And then I started social media and I sort of left everything behind me.

That's the really summarized version, right? I felt like I sort of left all of that behind me, started anew, and moved on. And I got a DM when I was 17, so four years later, that was like, I know. know you're a whore. I know you lost your virginity when you were 13 and all this crazy stuff. And it was blackmail in the way that it was like threatened to come out and in that way. And that was really, really scary to me because that's not what happened. And so I was sort of pressured into before whatever this person was going to do. I don't know. I was 17, so I was scared. And so I posted basically being like, hey, I didn't really want to talk about this, but just so everyone knows

to avoid the questions later. And so this doesn't get put out and twisted in a way that's not true, you know, whatever. It was scary enough to me and personal enough where I didn't even know how anyone knew because, I mean, very few people, like maybe four people knew. So at that time, I was not, did not know what happened or how it happened. But yeah. Looking back, do you know who the person was? No. So it had to be one of those four people that did that, though. Either that or the person that did it.

Or was the person. But did the person who DM'd you actually follow through with any blackmailing? Or they just, they threatened. The threat was enough for me. Of course. You want to get ahead of it. The threat that someone knew something that very few people in my life knew. And four years later had that as like ammunition of sorts.

It's your narrative. Yeah. And that's, this is a running theme with me, I think. Yeah, it's your narrative. But I was like, okay, I'm going to, I guess, put this out there before, at whatever, before it comes out. I'm going to guess that the support that you got when you shared that was incredible. Yeah, of course. And I mean, it's, I'm never going to therapy for any of that.

I've never, like I was saying, it's a really weird thing with, like, trauma and when things happen and how you're, brain rewires itself. But I genuinely, I'm really bad at timelines. I had to do something yesterday where they were like, what's a song that you associate with this part of your childhood? I don't know because I don't remember. Is that it like that's, there's a kind of, it's a kind of therapy, right? Is it? What do you mean? No, she's saying she was doing an interview. Oh, you were doing an interview. Yeah, I was doing an interview where they were asking me like, what's a song that you associate with this? I know what you're talking about. He's talking about EM. Well, we have our friend Dr. Aymann coming on, was it tomorrow or something? And he was telling me, like, I was trying to track

into my background. He's like, oh, you got to think of moments or stuff like that to be able to figure out what was going on. He thinks together. Yeah. And I've never done that because I just wasn't ready for it. Because my life basically started over and I don't really remember any of that. So people ask me a lot of questions. It's all kind of a blur. And until I started doing social media. And then I felt like I kind of flipped a switch and, okay, this is my life now. And then I left Pennsylvania and didn't go back. It sounds like a little bit of when you go through something traumatic, this has happened to me before it's dissociation. It's called something. Yeah, it's almost like your brain just chooses, you know, to block out periods of time. And my brain has done such a good job of protecting me. People will

always say, you need to go to therapy and you need to go. But I don't, I don't right now because I'm not ready to do that. And that's my reason in saying that is because I wasn't even really ready to talk about it. Because to me, it feels like a very, very, very, very distant memory that I've, my brain is just naturally blocked out. And I appreciate my brain for that. And I like to keep it that way for now because it's, that's very invasive of that person. I mean, yeah. And I mean, I have my suspicions. Not to say that it, that that whole experience didn't. change me or traumatized me because there are things now that I think are very different about me and my character than if that had never happened. But I don't know. I feel like I wasn't ready

to talk about it then. And I talk about it now openly, but I'm not, I've never really gotten to details or anything because A, I don't fully remember everything. And B, just not ready for it. You know what? I think it sounds like you are taking control. Speaking of taking control, It says that you said, fuck you to label records. Yeah. What is it called? I'm so old. Record labels.

You're not bad. I mean, Lord. Fuck you to record labels. Fuck you to record labels. For real. Fuck you. To record labels. Tell us about that moment when you sort of took control over your future.

Oh my goodness. So my whole entire career has just been one big learning experience. and I've had so many shitty managers back to back. I'm in a great place now, and I have been for a few years, but there was a long trial period for me. How soon after you start having success online, do managers start to... Oh my God, you know they're there right away. Yeah, quick, right?

Right away. They're like busting down your door. I had... My first manager was basically keeping like 80% of my money and only giving me like 20% And I knew I didn't know any different because they logged into my YouTube and basically took like most of my ad sense and would give me just enough to where I thought like $200. I thought I was making like good money and this is what it was. These are not like from companies. There's independent kind of sleeves bags or are they? I'm sure they had companies. But like they're not like.

Okay. Some of them have clients now where I'm like, okay. My second manager like basically signed me to shelf me so that I, so that they could basically keep me from being more successful than one of their other clients and like sort of. of redirect brand deals to their other client that were coming in for me. Like, oh, Lauren's actually so busy that day, but here's our other client that could happily take that. So that was another situation. And then I eventually went, I had another manager who, again, not great, but took me into the label because I'd started writing music. When I was 14, I started writing music and then

actually making music when I was 15. So we went to the label with, I think one song, maybe. there was no proof that I was going to be good at anything. And to be honest, I really wasn't. I was confused. No one was helping me. It was just like sing this song. And that's not what I wanted. I wanted to write music because I had always written poetry.

So I wanted to write music and I wanted to learn. And there was none of that happening. It was like, okay, you're blonde, you're skinny, you're pretty, you're Britney Spears. You can dance. You can perform and just be sexy baby. So that's sort of the box that I was put in pretty much right away. And anything that wasn't that was not what anyone wanted to see. So I signed to the label and he would put out like a single every now and then I cried the night.

My first single came out. I hated it so much. It was like kids boppy and I hated it. And I was embarrassed. I was like, man, I could have done so much better. And I just felt very restricted because I was like, okay, I'm being sort of diminished to like what I look like and what I look like I can do. And what I look like I can do is dance in people on and skinny and whatever. And I kind of feel like that was a theme my whole life anyway.

I wasn't happy. And then I came to them with a song called Queen. And I was like, this is such a good song. I'm so proud of it. Like, please. It was very empowering. And Q, I was 16 and I loved it. It was like, please.

And they were like, um, no, not a hit. I was like, please, just give me one chance to do one song that I believe in. My mom took the picture in portrait mode on her phone. for the cover art, like we did everything. My dress that I was wearing in the cover arts, we ran to like T.J. Max and grab something quick. I turned it in. It's my most stream song to this day.

So after that, I was like, hmm, maybe these 60, 70, 80 year old men don't know everything. Maybe I know a little something. So we kept releasing music. I wasn't happy. It just felt like another job. It just felt like something else that I was doing shit at the wall and see if it stuck. Finally, I was like, you know what? It was during COVID.

My whole team got changed around. No one knew me. No one gave a shit about me. They were like, okay, what are we do with this? And in the beginning, everyone was so stoked. They were like, oh my God, we have Britney Spears. Like, that's what we have. I didn't have it in me because it's not what I wanted. I could have done it. But I was never going to do it because it didn't align with anything that I had portrayed myself to be online because people already knew that I had more to say than that. Well, they want to put you in a box. Right. Or they want to replicate a past success. Like that's what happens with a lot of these guys.

Like they just like, oh, that was successful. Let's do it again here. But it's very, the landscape's very different. I love Britney Spears. But like the landscape's very different. People want to hear more from you. They want to know more about you. And they want the story.

And that's what I wanted to give people and give myself. So it was the perfect time. I was like, okay. Can I leave? And they were like, okay, perfect. So it's actually really easy. Like, but they didn't know what to do with me because I wasn't doing what they wanted. and it wasn't, you know, we didn't align at all.

So I left. And Helen, who's like, she's my manager, but she came into the picture later. And she will tell you, like, there is, she was like, I have never seen anyone be disrespected more in label meetings or in any professional setting more than you. And I just kind of grown accustomed to it. I was used to it. But people genuinely, I think, thought that I was just had nothing going on in my brain, even though I had marketed myself since I was 13 years old and built what I had. No one helped me with that. So I felt like I deserved more credit. But I was in a meeting once and they said, well, let's hear your take. And they're like, hmm, you know what you need to do.

What? This is the president, by the way, of the company that's supposed to know things. you just can't make bad music like that and I'm like sounds good and then they presented me with the song that they wanted me to cut that was a hit that was about being bisexual I'm not bisexual and I told them I said I can't sing this song this song people on the internet know that I'm not bisexual and I can't I can't sing this song it's like well it's a hit and if you don't sing it someone else well well let someone else sing it and after that they stopped bringing me songs they stopped caring it was just like I'm not going to do what they want to do you know what you know what what's so interesting, I'm obsessed with old Hollywood biographies. And the way you were treated is very

similar to a lot of the women in the 50s. This is what I'm saying, though. It's like, well, because the men that are, like, doing these things were, like, born in the 50s. So that's what they're used to. But also, like, people say, like, we've progressed. There's still so many undertones of what women experienced in the 50s in entertainment. And no one wants to call it out, because if you call it out, and you get cut by the studio. Yeah. It's still, the man still has the noose around the woman's neck. Yeah.

And it's... Going to be quiet now. Anyways, it's a joke. No, but it's like there's so many vibes of the 1950s. It's like we really haven't changed. It's just behind closed doors. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I was 16, 17 years old sitting in these meetings.

And I'd worked so hard. And at this point, I built like this thing. And I was marketing myself. I had done everything to that point by myself. Here's the thing. A lot of these people that come up in a different kind of way. And we see this, I see this in entertainment a lot. There's like this idea where it's, hey, you didn't go to acting school.

You didn't study music. You didn't do this. You didn't go to writing. You didn't put it in the chops. You're the musically girl. Right. But I built a following of 20 million people. of course, but I'm saying there's certain people that fail to acknowledge how hard that is to do.

And they think, oh, you're just the musically girl. You didn't go, you didn't come up this. So in there, it's a huge plan. It happens in acting. Like, like, and I try to use the examples of like you see Kim Kardashian now getting, you know, cast in American Horror Story. It's because that group of people knows that she drives attention. You see Logan Paul going in the WWE. He's actually extremely talented, but it's because that group understands that they drive attention. There is a group of people. that are decision makers in some of these organizations that fail to acknowledge and move with the times. They think, oh, like, it's the musically person, so I don't have to take them seriously. And it's a huge misstep and mistake on their part.

And even when I first started social media, I mean, in the past five years, even things have evolved so much to where I feel like I'm taking a little bit more seriously. But there were times where I was nominated for awards and I went to the carpet wearing my nominee bracelet and a woman who was working the carpet looked me right in my face in front of two boys that I thought were really cute. She looked at me and she goes, this is not the place for you. It was. I was nominated.

I could have been on the carpet. But it's so many instances of just being like not taken seriously when I, not many people can do. Or most of those people, why don't you have $20 million? There's a lot of people that complain about gatekeeping. but now they're actually upset that a lot of gatekeeping is being blown away. Does that make sense? There's a lot of like, who was it? Who was it?

One of these celebrities that was like mad about people. Jennifer Aniston's mad about TikTokers. Yeah, yeah. But that's what I'm saying. It's because it's some of these people, and I'm not just trying to pick on her, there's some people that are upset about people being able to build platforms on their own without having to go through the same kind of process or rigmarole. They say it's not fair.

Does that make sense? Yeah. It's actually more fair. Of course it's more fair. But there's certain people, and listen, I don't want to call too many people out, especially. They're upset because it's like, you don't have the credentials, you didn't go to the study, and you didn't do an idea, you just got this platform. And they don't understand that it's not easy to do what you've done. Right. Not only is it not easy. It's incredibly unique. It's like what you said. You marketed your own self. You essentially did everything a magazine and a network did by yourself. So the way I look at it, because I see why people, I see why traditional media actors, musicians who have been in the industry for a long time, I've always understood why they get upset because they don't understand how you can just walk in and book a role or book a show because of your following. Because they had to do it a different way. That's why they don't understand it. Right. Because you had to convince some big head.

of some corporation studio that you were good enough. I had to convince the world that I was good enough. Right. And I had to convince people to like me in that way. And you've been propelled by the people. And it's not who can do it better or who's more qualified. It's just different. Who's qualified to being the public eye?

Probably no one. I just wasn't given a script. I wasn't given a song. I had to figure it out. And that's the only difference is that I'm just kind of, saying my piece and people are listening and you were in an incredible movie and you're a very talented actor and I applaud you and it's incredible and I have people that I look up to who are actors and traditional musicians who went through the process but I don't think you should ever

be in a place to knock someone or discredit what they've built discredit what somebody's built because although you might not take them seriously if someone if someone can build an audience from nothing that's something to be applauded. than be impressed by, honestly. My advice to you would just be, and not that you need my advice, but my advice to you would just be use people underestimating you to your advantage. Yeah. Like use it to squeeze that tube of toothpaste so there's no more in it.

Use every, let them underestimate you, let them think you're stupid. Let them think all these things because you're going to have the last laugh as you are clearly already having. Use it to your advantage. Just having, I know this is going to sound strange. but empathy for people that just they just don't get it. Again, we go back to the conversation in the beginning, a little bit jealous that they weren't able to fulfill their bucket.

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Enjoy responsibly 21 Seeds, Diageo, New York, New York, 21seeds.com. Quick break to talk about an amazing service and our sponsor Squarespace. One of our favorite platforms is a one-stop shop for everything you need to build online, and it's called Squarespace. Squarespace is the key you have been looking for to develop your online presence, your website, your e-com site, and so much more. Long gone are the days of working with five different companies to build a beautiful, functional website. You can now do it all in one place. cost effectively and efficiently, all at Squarespace. Squarespace is an online platform that lets you build incredible websites,

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She's like, I would be using everything. Like she thinks she's like her perspective is like everything that everyone has exposure to now is amazing. But there's a certain camp of people that are going to like bah humbug about it and say, and they're going to disrespect the platforms. I'm not going to recognize like this is called. It's called evolution. This is called progress. Once it happens, it doesn't stop. It's sad because you're missing out. Right. And not just missing out on the potential like clout and money or whatever. You're missing out on opportunities to learn from people who are

new in the space and we're doing something different and who may know things that you don't know. And I feel like that's the part that people sort of debilitate themselves by putting, putting, other people into a box because you're also putting yourself into a box by doing that and sort of pushing away anything new. Well, you could have learned something. And I could have learned something from you. And yeah, it's just unfortunate because you could have, you know. Just never listen to the people that say you don't have the credentials. People are out to lunch. You're not. No, no. I'm saying anybody. Tell me about what you did with the record label. So you said, fuck you by. I'm doing it myself. Yeah. And then I, that's exactly what I did.

started writing my album two years ago, and I did it and I wrote it. And I learned the most that I've ever learned in that amount of time that I had ever learned in the music industry ever because I actually had people who were willing to listen to me and answer my questions. And I mean, I also think people just assume that I woke up one day and said, hmm, I'm going to be a musician. I'm going to dance and I'm going to sing. That's not what happened. I had already been writing music. I had already been singing. And then when I decided, and also what people don't realize is it's 10 times harder for me to want to sing because I know what people are going to say. So I have to work 10 times harder to get people to see, okay, I'm kind of valid. I'm kind of trying

here. And I did, I was in voice lessons for years and years. For like four years, I did voice lessons because I was not the best singer, and I worked really hard at it. And once I got sort of, I already knew how to write music, but once I got into this studio, I learned how to use Pro Tools, and I was asking questions, and does this make sense? And is this stupid? And does this, how do you use this? And what are you doing? And those are the things that I never got.

Because what would happen is with a label, they put you in sessions with people who are notable, who have done incredible things. And they say, okay, go write a hit song with this. person who also wrote a hit song. And then you get there. I had a man when I was 16. I just started making music. I went to his house to do a session and pulled it up in my Uber because I couldn't drive. And I was like, and I sat down at his kitchen table because that's where he took me, made a coffee for a really long time, like was crushing the beans and everything. I was like, man, just put a curate pot in for sake. And then he like made himself a peanut butter and jelly. And I'm so, you know, like, made himself a peanut butter and jelly.

still like toast of the bread. I'm like, okay. It's a really intricate peanut butter and jelly. He's turning the butter. Like, yeah, he's like milking the cow in the back. I'm like, okay. So I'm sitting there. I don't know. I tried to sort of engage with him. It's not really working. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to sit here. So finally he starts talking. I'm like, okay, well, I had this idea. And he cuts me off and he goes, so, did you call your Uber yet? And I was like, no. And he was like, okay, you should. And I was confused because, like, we didn't write a song, we didn't even talk. So was I just supposed to, like, accompany this man for, like, brunch?

Or will he eat his peanut butter and jelly? Or why am I here? So there's a lot of weird moments like that. I'm just like, what? What was it? Good question. Do you think he was waiting for a sexual energy? I don't know.

I think it's weird. And they get a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? No, but because maybe he's waiting for a vibe for her to put it out and she didn't put it out there. I was just, it was just uncomfortable. I don't know. Maybe I've never thought about that way. One of the more unique moves I've ever heard about. No, maybe he's just seeing what he can get away with.

But wait, was you supposed to write a song with him? Yes. I was there to write music. So I sat there for a while, like really uncomfortably watching and make this like peanut butter and jelly sandwich. It's the most intricate one I've ever seen. Like I said, it was like you had so many ingredients. And yeah, the second I open my mouth to like talk about music, he was like, okay,

I call your eber by. It's like, okay. It seems to me that you don't need all these like different layers. that they used to need. No. And that's the other thing that people, I feel like, that are more traditional, don't understand is that a record label at this point is a bank. That's what they are.

They put the money up front and they use it how they want to use it. My budget for my first single, my budget was blown on a, like, I'm talking like, six figures, blown on a vertical video for Spotify. Like, you know what Spotify is the canvases? Yeah, this is, this is something that I've, that I've noticed. I notice, I, remember I shot that, that thing for that company? I'll tell you the brand offline. There was a company that I shot that they, like, directed.

Maybe we need the publicist help too. Careful, careful. It was a soap company. I shot a soap company thing. And they had 45 different people on set when I literally could have filmed it on my tripod. Oh, I know exactly what you're talking. I don't need like someone to like butter my knees. Like it was just like it was it was so unnecessary the amount of people that they used.

It was almost like they use it to make themselves feel larger than life to overcompensate for the inadequacies. Right. And I completely understand what you're saying because I feel like a lot of the times there's just a huge disconnect. Right. There's the way things used to be and the way things actually are now. And the things that you're capable of, you know, like, I feel like I saw this video of someone speaking about this. And I feel like I have to say it because we're talking about this. Labels don't do what they used to do.

Because back then you'd pitch to a label. And then if they liked you and they thought you were marketable enough, they would market you. And they would make you. They would build you. Now what happens is you make you. Then a label comes along and goes, hey, I want a piece of that. I'll throw some money at you up front and then just keep doing everything yourself. And the second that you need my help, maybe I'll do it if that's what I want to do.

Your artistic vision completely goes out the window. You're doing things you don't really want to do and everything just feels like you're a cog in this machine. When you could have been doing exactly what you wanted to do, I mean, like, if you want a bank, if you want money, either get someone to invest, Or there's distribution deals. Like, I have a distribution deal where they put money up front and they go, okay, go do whatever you want with it. And then we'll take a percentage and you can recoup. And that's what I did because that was what made sense for me. So there are ways to do it without like giving your entire vision away for someone who didn't even create it.

This conversation is so important. It's so important, especially for women, moving forward to understand that you can have independence and you don't need to rely on all these outside sources because you can be your own brand from your social media platform. Warren and I started this show seven years ago with 250 bucks Amazon equipment. That's what it costs to do it. Like that was it. There was no fancy deal. There's no radio company. There was no plot. None of that is needed. I think so many people get that choice. It's important. I think it's good for people like you to say that because many people probably look at what you've built and to think, oh, like she had this and this and this and they don't realize

I could see you making your own documentary like Brooke Shields did put on your own thing about this subject. I feel like you need to get a whiteboard in your house and be like, this is the old way and this is the new way and explain it. And this is where we can all coexist happily. And everyone can be their own person and do what's best for them at the same time. I feel like you need to explain the old way and the new way because it is, there's a. blurriness right now that needs to be deciphered. There is, and I also just hate that people turn their nose up at it because it's like, why? People turn their nose up at things they don't understand and that they feel threatened by.

Like that's the way I look at that. Whenever I see people kind of like getting in a tithy online or getting upset about something, it's more about them than it is about you or me or whoever's saying something on the other side. There have also been so many things. This is the other thing that people don't realize. there have been so many things that I've turned down because I know someone is, and this is going to sound really, it might come across conceited, but I hope you understand what I'm saying, where I know people are just using me for my audience and not because of anything that I have to offer. It's just like shoving me in things. Like they're leveraging your audience. Right. So it's like, okay, let's throw Lauren into this movie and have her do something really insignificant. So then we can use her to market and to blast her. on social media because we know that obviously this person gets attention, but we don't want to admit that that's the case or that there's something about that that people, you know what I'm, do you know what I'm saying? I totally know what you're saying and you just have to be really savvy, which it sounds like you are with every single thing. And for you to already know this

at 20, 21 years old is incredible. I mean, I didn't know this at 2021. I mean, this is like, for you to be able to sniff this out, you obviously have an intuition for where to steer your ship. And I also feel like people have a hard time saying no, but there's... You have to say no. You have to say no, and you also just have to know what you want for yourself. Right. Like, for me, if I'm going to be a part of something, like, there was a movie recently that I was pitched, and I was like, okay, they always want you to play an influencer in the movie.

I'm like, yeah. So I did a movie, but then, so I was pitched on. I was like, okay, not that exciting for me. But the movie that I just finished was exciting for me because they actually let me act. I want to go in and take as an executive and like rip these people out of their seats and be like, listen, you don't take an influencer and put them in an influencer role. You take them and put them in something that you've never seen in them before. Thank you. That's why what you're seeing.

Put you in a black wig. And outside of that, people also hate to admit, God forbid, that I might be good at something. that maybe I do have a little ounce of talent and that I am capable of doing things. Well, say what you want about the Paul brothers, but one of them is absolutely killing it in WW. And I'm a huge, I used to be a big wrestling fan when I was a kid. And like, he's actually very, very talented and he's killing it. And I know people get mad about Jake Paul, but like, that guy can bust some heads. Like he knows how to, he's, maybe like, he's got to work, obviously, to go into boxing. But like, those guys have invigorated both of those two sports.

And so many people, all they do is chirp and doubt them because. they come from YouTube. Right? Like, it's a hard thing for that. It's a hard thing for people to be like, oh. I had a friend that was known on Instagram as doctor someone on Instagram. And she was put in this box that she was this doctor. Was she a doctor?

Oh, okay. I was like, is she just like that a reason name? Her name was like doctor something on Instagram. Okay. And she felt she couldn't drop the doctor because she felt like that's how she identified as a doctor. And that's what people followed her for. But she had evolved.

Her life had changed. She was interested in different things. And one day, her boyfriend told her, drop the fucking doctor, move on. Just because you did something for six years doesn't mean it needs to be the next 60. Right. And I think that we as a society with social media, just because someone did YouTube,

doesn't mean that they're not allowed to evolve into other things. Or that they're not good at anything. Yeah, we have to stop. Or that they're not multifaceted. Like, people are multifaceted. Yeah. Honestly, a lot of times, if someone, and this is what I wish people would at least consider,

if someone has the drive and the determination to post consistently and stay entertaining and stay in people's faces and they're able to cultivate that audience and keep that audience engaged, what's to say that they can't work equally as hard, if not harder, to prove people wrong in acting, and in making music. You can. Absolutely. And though, I mean, I've seen it with other people, even with myself. I push myself 10 times harder because I knew people weren't going to take me seriously.

I knew people didn't really, people didn't want to believe in me at all. So I had to push a little, like, not even a little, a lot harder to prove to people that this is something that I want to do. I've been making music for, how old am I? I'm 21 today. That's seven years that I've been making music and working at it. And I'm just now putting out my album. And people still don't take me seriously. And so there's always going to be that stigma.

And I wish that people just understood that if you took away the influence or label, would you think that someone's capable of pushing themselves hard enough to be good at something? I will say, I think conversations like this in long format on podcasts, I don't know if you have a podcast or if you ever considered a podcast, I think would be amazing for you because it's, I think it will allow people to hear you talk in a longer form. Yeah. They're so used to the quick beat with you. Yeah. Like for me even, like to hear you talk like this is like, wow, it's like we get to see all these different sides of you that maybe we can't see from a TikTok. Yeah, absolutely. No, I agree. We've covered a lot of ground. We've covered so much ground. No, I feel like I appreciate you saying that. It makes me feel like I'm saying something right. No, it's like, it's amazing to hear like hear you in long form content. Thank you.

You very articulate too. Very articulate. I mean that as a compliment. Thank you. I got to ask before we go. What does someone do that doesn't know shit about TikTok? It's constantly changing and things are always different. I mean, I've been doing it for seven years or eight years now, and I've seen it change so many times. So you kind of have to be aware, always, of what's happening

and constantly willing to evolve. And I feel like the biggest part with any social media a platform including TikTok is consistency and doing something authentic. And if you watch the video, you kind of have to think what I want to watch this and what I think this is cool. I feel like that's where TikTok is now. You sort of have to look at it from a third person perspective and say, okay, if I saw this, would I think this is funny or what I think this is interesting or engaging at all? And if the answer is no, then like other people probably won't think so either. That's what I sort think about when I watch my own videos or whatever. I think it's different for everyone, depending on

their niche, depending on what they're interested in. As long as it's like authentic and makes sense and it's consistent, then that's what I've seen work the best. Consistent, you want to watch your own content. It sounds like something different that you bring to the table than everybody else. Yeah. And just being willing to evolve. Like willingness to evolve is important because I started with lip sync videos and now it's like I've had to constantly reinvent and think of something different. and okay, what's a side of me that people haven't seen yet? And what's a new story that I can tell? Or what's something that people want to know?

I don't know. I just kind of keep those things in the back of my mind while also making content that I want to make. Because, boo, I don't want to sit here and make videos for other people. It's my page and I want to make stuff that I think is nice and cool. While it's working, where can everyone follow you? They already don't. Oh, my goodness.

My TikTok is Lauren Gray. My Instagram is Lauren. My Snapchat is Lauren. Lauren and my Twitter's, I'm Lauren Gregg. How often are you posting on Snapchat? All the time. Oh, Lauren, I have to post on Snapchat too. How often do you post on Snapchat?

I actually use Snapchat a lot. Snapchat I feel like is my most engaged audience, to be honest. A lot of people have been saying that lately. We started strong on Snapchat, Lauren, and then we kind of just... Well, Snapchat is paying people right now, which is why people are starting to use it. But I've always realized or always noticed, I guess, that my Snapchat audience is the most engaged. So if I post something on Snapchat and I'm like looking for a response, I get the most responses out of Snapchat. Because I think because it's a communication platform,

people feel a little more inclined to engage. And it just feels a little more personal. So I feel like people overlook Snapchat. Now they're not because now they're making money. But before that, and even now, it just seems like people are pretty active on there. Yeah, I got to go on Snapchat. Where can everyone listen to your music? Tell us all the things how we can support what you're doing. My album comes out in two days now, which is crazy. It comes out on Friday, April 21st. So I'm sure by the time this comes out, it'll already be out. You're a boss. Thank you for coming on. That was such a fun conversation. I feel like it hits so many different things. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I was like, I feel like I've been here for like four hours. Calling you in 10 years when our daughter gets

online. I'm going to figure this out. Oh my goodness. Yes. I would love that. Have your parents write a book. Thank you. Thank you. If you like this episode, you can also watch it on our YouTube. channel. How fun you can see the visuals. So go stalk us on YouTube. Just type in the skinny confidential him and her show.