The Bossticks - Melissa Rivers On Hollywood Life, Fashion Police, Joan Rivers, & Keeping Life Funny Through The Hard Times

Episode Date: July 12, 2021

#373: On today's episode we are joined by Melissa Rivers. Melissa is an American actress and television host. She is the only child of comedian Joan Rivers and producer Edgar Rosenberg. Melissa joins the show today to discuss the importance of laughing through hard times and making sure we never take ourselves too seriously.  To connect with Melissa Rivers click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by No Days Wasted Their hero product is called DHM Detox, which is the vitamin for people who like to enjoy their drinks. It's designed to help you bounce back the next day. Get 20% off your order and free shipping in the US. Just head over to www.NoDaysWasted.CO/SKINNY and use promo code "SKINNY" at checkout This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work.  This episode is brought to you by Joovv. Experience the benefits of red light therapy by one of the best in the business; JOOVV! To experience the Joovv and receive a free gift with purchase go to joovv.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

My parents were very clear that there were two parts of our lives. One was work, and it was made very, it was made very, very clear. clear to me that it was work and that is a different set of circumstances. And when you came home, though, we were the Rosenbergs. We were home. I was raised with expectations that needed to be met. I was expected to get good grades. I was not turned into a snowflake. I was expected to be blight. I was expected to get good grades. I was expected to be a good person. There were no excuses made. You knew what the rules were. How you doing, Michael Bostick? I'm doing pretty good, even though we got off of a 5 a.m.

flight, or at least we've been up since 5 a.m. Texas time flight to come out here to California. I got a lot of energy, though, because I'm mainlining coffee basically right into my veins. How gnarly is it traveling with the baby? Can we just discuss that? Yeah, I mean, listen, everyone's, here's what it is. There's the type of parents that says it's hard and just doesn't do it. And then there's the type of parents that says it's hard and just puts themselves

through punishment and suffering, which is the type of parents we are. It is not easy. I think people always out, they ask us all the time, like how do you travel with the baby. How do you do this? We suffer through it. It sucks. It's miserable. It's really difficult. You are those people on the plane when the baby's screaming that everyone's looking at with daggers wanting to kill. But we do it. Here are some tips that I found that work really well. We carry Apple crunchables by That's It. She loves those. We have a movie already downloaded on Michael's iPad. We have songs on my phone. We have little activities. We bring her bunny, her doll,

her Barbie, everything you can possibly bring. We go as early as we possibly. We go as early as we can or as late as we possibly can so that she can get some sleep. But listen, I don't want to tell anybody, everyone that's listening is like, oh, wow, they get like parents that are listening with young kids, no. It's not easy. It's not great. We're suffering the whole time. I don't want anyone to listen to this, be like, well, they got it figured out. We just gut through it and do it anyway. That's kind of the type of people where it's like, you know, it's going to suck. We're going to be miserable. It's going to be tough. We're going to be tired. We're going to be exhausted. The kid's going to be miserable. But we just do it anyway. So I don't want people to

listen to us and be like, wow, they make it look so easy. It's not easy. We just grid our teeth and do it. One of my favorite things about traveling as a parent that before when a baby would cry on a plane, you'd be like, oh, come the fuck on. Are you fucking kidding me? And now that your parents, the parents that are sitting around you, just look at you. And it's like a wink. It's like the nudge nudge you're all in on the joke. I don't think anyone has an easy time. There's three types of people. There's the people that have never had children that have no idea what it's like who we used to be. Weston. And a lot of people. And they're miserable. And they're like, what the fuck? What are you doing on the plane?

And they're staring you down with daggers and they want you to die and they hate your kid and they're like, what the fuck? Taylor. Then there's the people that are existing parents. When I say existing, like they have a kid that's anywhere between the ages of, you know, newborn to maybe, let's call it 10 years old. If your kid's screaming and whining after 10, then you got to do something about that kid. But between zero to 10, you know, and those parents are like, they empathize with you. They're like, oh my God. And you're kind of like camaraderie.

And then there's the old dogs. the old parents, the ones that have done it before and had the kids and are all grown. They look back and finally and they're like, and they fondly, like, you know, I remember those days. And they kind of like wish they still had them, but they're also really glad that they're not in them anymore. And they're just enjoying life because they don't have to deal with the shit anymore. Those are the three types I've encountered. And then it's the grandparents, like our parents that's what I'm talking about. No, no, no.

But the grandparents are a different level because the grandparents are like, oh, the baby's crying here, take her. She's all yours now. But then they want to see her when she's in a good mood. Yeah. Well, I was saying, I think like maybe the grandparents and like the older parents, they fall on that same bucket. I'm just talking about the flying type of people. Well, we got driven today by an Uber who had nine kids. And two sets of twins.

Listen. So we can't complain. As soon as you think that you have it tough, I guarantee you'll find a story where someone has it a lot tougher. I always remember that. I always think that way. And also the same thing with success. As soon as you think you're successful, look around and realize there's someone way more

further along the road than you. It's the same thing, you know, both with misery and happiness. Well, this is a really great intro for this show because we are talking. to someone's daughter who is iconic. The daughter's iconic, the mother's iconic. They're both iconic. It was a mother-daughter duo like no other. And that is Melissa Rivers. She is so major, you guys. She is funny. She's charismatic. She's dynamic. I can see Joan Rivers in her. I mean, it's very, very clear. What I love about Melissa is she's so open. She's so honest. She's refreshing, honestly. Just to give you a little background on her, she is an American

an actress, a television host. You might recognize her from fashion police or Joan and Melissa, Joan knows best. She's also a mother, a daughter. She is incredible. She's an author. She does all the things. And she is funny. You should also know Melissa has a podcast called Group Text Podcast. She kind of does it all. There's one thing for me when I meet a beautiful woman like her and then they open their mouth and they're funny, I just fall in love. You and me both. Funny is the way to be. And Joan Rivers, I mean, we can all agree that she was the definition of funny and her daughter is the same way. With that, let's welcome Melissa to the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her.

Actually, I'm going to say I could not be more excited for this podcast. Like, the reason I podcast is because of people like you and your mother. Like this, this to me is a real audio guru. And visual too, but, but I mean, you just know how to get on a mic. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. But can we discuss the fact that I've been following you forever? Forever?

Yes. What? Yes. I'm dead. No, and I'm always on your website. I know all about the little new pink face roller. I'm going to send you one. Yeah, I know that's what I'm saying.

Like, I'm a huge fan and being here is amazing. Like, I can't believe. I mean, you and I were in the elevator together. And like I feel like I'm instantly making a friend because you already told me I had to convince you to move to a different neighborhood. Yeah, you got to move me. Well, we move to a whole different state, but we're back here now. Yeah, state schmate. I need to be like feeling comfortable here too. Yeah.

Well, Melissa, you know, honestly, maybe if I would have met you a few months earlier, we could have changed our whole course of life. But we'll make up for lost time. We'll make up for lost time. But literally within two seconds in the elevator, she's like, where do you live? Not creepy or anything. No, not creepy at all. Like, where do you live? And I know that you have the baby.

And Lauren's like, well, I don't know if we're in the right neighborhood. No. No. And I'm like, oh, you're not. This is where I raised my son. You can walk. You can do this. It's a neighborhood.

You've been in LA since you were three. I've been in LA since I was three. And then got shipped back east for college. I love how you say you got shipped. Like, what is that? What do you mean you got shipped? Did you get put in a crate? Close.

Okay. I was sent kicking and screaming to the East Coast to University of Pennsylvania to Penn. I'm a geek in disguise. we always discussed that. And my, I didn't, who would want to leave? My parents had an amazing beach house

when you were a senior in high school and my parents were remodeling our house in Bel Air and I was living out at the beach house. I mean, seriously. Why did you leave? Well, I didn't really have a choice. I was sent.

But so who would want to leave? So my parents had, give us two years. Give us two years alone. No, give us two years. If you hate it after two years, you can transfer. And first semester,

senior year, freshman year was great, like, party on. Second semester, I hit a wall. I'm like, I want to come home. So I put out all these applications. I got into a bunch of different schools in L.A. UCLA, USA. But I couldn't start till second semester. My parents are like, you are not staying home for a whole semester and doing fuck all.

I'm like, all work. They're like, no, no. So I'm like, okay, I'll go back for one more semester. And I went back and I never left. They were right. And by the way, I made the same deal with my son because I really think it's important. especially for kids who are raised in L.A. that they get out of L.A.

for a minute. I know why I think that, but why do you think that? Because we live in an insane city. Yeah. We live in a crate, we live, as my parents you say, we live in the world's largest company town.

And everything from what people look like to business, to what's important, is so sort of hyper accentuated. I don't know if that's a real word. in Los Angeles, like, you need to go out and see what the rest of the country looks like. And you need to go live in it and understand. There's like, we moved to Texas recently and we split time, but like there's a currency here.

You went to Texas as like everybody else. Sure. Yeah. But I mean, we also grew up in San Diego, so we weren't like true L.A. locals. But San Diego is a similar. I mean, first of all, like my son, he only knows girls that look like ones that run around in bikinis. Yeah. So like he had this really like crazy sense of.

what girls are supposed to look like. But you know, there's a currency here in L.A. that I don't think exists even in places like San Diego, which is like there's this kind of like social currency. Does that make sense? Yes, totally. Where like you're, it's a fame level. Like you get what I'm saying about it?

It's a lily pader. So have you ever been talking to someone and they're looking over your head to lily pad to you to get over to the next person? Oh, I don't. Lily pad. I love that. No. My favorite is someone says hi and then immediately just start looking off over your life. And I have a couple of friends who are big executives that I went to school with.

And they, one of them in particular, does that I'm always like, hey, hey, hey, eyes here. Eyes here, buddy. I think what I like about, we'll just talk about our personal experience, Texas is like that social currency doesn't really exist. People are really nice. We're in Texas, though. We're in Austin right now. Maybe in Dallas. In Dallas. Sure. Now the Dallas people are going to come after me. But Dallas is fantastic. But it's not Austin. I mean, it's like, it's like San Diego to L.A. Sure. But you know what I'm saying? There's this kind of like weird social thing that's in L.A. that I don't think you have in other places. And I think it's good to get outside of it and

realize, like, oh, like, most, a lot of normal people don't give a shit about this kind of thing. Well, it's not that they don't give a shit. You find out that people work and everyone's not writing a screenplay. Yes, yes. You know what I mean? Everyone is in old years and years and years ago. There is this really funny t-shirt from CAA, the agency. And on the back of it was a dog sitting in front of a desk talking to an agency, but what I really want to do is direct. And to me, that's L.A. Yeah. Everybody, you know what I mean? Okay. I want to go. way, way back to like when you were a baby. Okay.

I want to know, like, what it was like growing up as Melissa Rivers. I'm very interested in when you were like two and three and four. There's no social media. Are you in trailers every day? Like, not when I say trailers, I mean like movie trailers, yeah. Well, my parents, first of all, the person you saw on screen and on stage was vastly different than who my mother was. Let me preface this was saying, up until the. day she died, the phones at her house were answered Rosenberg residence. And my friends, the ones that

didn't sort of shift to calling her Joan, still referred to her as Mrs. R. Or Mrs. Rosenberg. So my parents were very clear that there were two parts of our lives. One was work. And it was made, it was made very clear to me that it was work. And that is a different set of circumstances. And when you came home, though, we were the Rosenbergs, we were home. And, you know, I know it's like, so not PC, like, I was raised with expectations that needed to be met. I was

expected to get good grays. I was not turned into a snowflake, you know, and now I'm going to get shit for calling kids snowflakes or people snowflakes. I was expected to behave. I was expected to have rules. There, I got grounded. I got in trouble. I had

things taken away. I was expected to be polite. I was expected to get good grades. I was expected to be a good person. There were no excuses made. You knew what the rules were. And it was very different. You know, out in L.A., my parents were very, very concerned about, like, which school they sent me to because they didn't want me thrown into this sort of hyper-reality Hollywood mix because I had it anyway. So they wanted to make sure when I went to school, it was very traditional. Meaning that you had it anyway because their life was so public already.

Right. But also not just public. But also, I grew up in L.A. in the late 70s and early 80s. It was wild. It was wild. And my mom, my dad, you tell us, why? Well, it was just a different time. Seventies, the 70s in L.A. when I was a little, little, little was great. My parents used to say, they remember going to parties where there would be these giant bowls of Coke out. And it was just a different, you know, a lot of parents were very Lucy kind of ex-hippie. You know, it's coming out of that whole scenario. My parents were like, uh-uh, that's not who we are. You got to remember. My dad was German. And, went to school in England and my mom was raised in New York in a very traditional family. Both my mom's parents were immigrants. And it was just a different lifestyle and what they perceived as what successful life looks like is not necessarily what it match up very well with society here. Were you laughing at the dinner table all the time or was it not like that? Was it just a separate world?

Why are you smiling? Because I was going to talk. I'm going to figure out how I went into this, but I just feel good. I don't waste any time, Lord. I don't waste any days. And that is not because I'm so well behaved all the time. It is because I got a secret weapon. And it is called No Days Wasted.

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I mean, my parents were both funny. My mom was really funny, obviously. My dad was very dry. Very funny. I have much more my dad's sense of humor than my mom's. My mom's offstage sense of humor was incredibly sophomoric. What does that mean? Silly.

Okay. Silly. Sophomoric meaning silly, loved a good practical joke. Love to the end. She used to do these elaborate practical jokes that sometimes worked in sometimes. did. And her biggest disappointment was always when she would do it to one of her friends that they would ignore it. And it would make her crazy. Crazy. You know, my mom and, you know, my, perfect example. So my mom's best friend was this woman named Margie Stern. And Margie had hip surgery.

And they were out and they went to theater. And Margie was still on crutches. And my mom turned to Margie and said, throw down your crutches. So Margie took her crutches, threw them down and screamed, I've been saved. I can walk. And my mother and Margie were like crying and all these people are turning around looking at this two crazy Jewish women, all dressed up screaming about the fact that Margie can walk again. So my mom also one time one of her very good friends, a gentleman named Mr. Kenneth, who was a very famous hairdresser, very elegant. Never, he was Mr. Kenneth, very elegant. And so in the lobby of his apartment building, he lived in one of those great old apartments on Riverside Drive. One night went in and redecorated with, she told the doorman

too is doing it, the entire lobby, but did it in like a sailor theme and had a portrait done of Kenneth with a parrot on his shoulder and went in the middle of night and put all this in the lobby of the building. And Kenneth wouldn't acknowledge it. It made her clawing the walls. Do you think he knew it was her? Really? They were really good friends. Who else would be crazy enough to do that and like tip the doorman and say, she wanted a reaction. But it was hilarious, like the extent that she went to. Would she prank you? She would try. And I just feel like, Mom, stop it. Really? When you know each other that well, I would just, a lot of eye rolls. When did you start? It seemed like you two had such a sense.

special relationship. It seemed like you guys were always together. When did you start to realize, or is it from the beginning, how cool your mom was and how you wanted to hang out with her? Maybe when did she start to realize how cool you were and how you wanted to hang out with you? I love that you act like it was my choice. You were forced. You were shipped off and then you were held at gunpoint. Exactly. I love that people really think like, oh, isn't that lovely? It's like, really? We wonder why I'm in therapy? You guys seemed like two peas in a pod to me.

We were show everything. We were very, very close. You know, it was very typical mother daughter, you know, during the teenage years and this. And then after my father died, we had a major falling out, major falling out and didn't speak for almost a year. And then when we came back together, it was a different set of rules. And we had a couple. We would have huge blowups. We would have huge blowups.

You know, but that's part of it. But it's hard when your mother daughter. Andy worked together. Yeah. And my mom was always like she'd spit it out and like sort of verbal vomit it all out and then be fine. And I'm much more like my dad where I would be seething. So we would get offset like at fashion police when I was the EP and she was the host. You know, I would be so pissed at her because of being whatever.

And she would get in the car and be like, let's stop for a snack. And I'm like, oh my God, I cannot get home fast enough and get you the fuck out of the car and get away from you. She's like, just like your father. Our generation is missing the realness that you have. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Because, but that's why I think people responded.

It was a real mother-daughter relationship. You know, one time, and I know I'm over-talking, sorry. You are not over-talking. You take the mic. We'll sit back with a piece of hay in our teeth. You know, you'll enjoy this story, especially because you have a daughter. So all this is ahead of you. No matter how close you are, at one point, they will be a teenager.

Whether you like it or not. And kids learn to divide and conquer. So your life is over. I'm done, yeah. You're done. You are so easily manipulated. I moved her wrong. The other, like, and I still can't get the image.

I moved her wrong and she, like, looked up. And it was like, like, she was so sad that, like, I think I, like, heard her a little bit because I moved, like, her position when she was watching. And, like, it was, you know, total accident. And, like, oh, my God, a devastation. I was like, I'm done. And I was like, almost broke down. Oh, you start.

That's just to add that. You're going to feel guilty forever. Yeah. And then she's going to come to you when you guys don't get along and try and play you off each other. She's already kind of like doing that kind of thing. You lost your father the same way I lost my mother. To suicide. Yes, which is devastating.

And this is Mental Health Appreciation Month. I would love for you to talk anything about that. This is talk about mental health appreciation. I would really love that. Not appreciation. It's mental health awareness. Mental health awareness. You know, my mom and I were some of the first ones to really talk openly about suicide

and what we call suicide survivors, which are people that's lives have been touched by suicide. I went back, I had to go back to school about a month after my dad killed himself. And it was very awkward. And granted, the media was very different then. Thank God. But it had been the cover of people magazine. It had been this, it had been that. One of the upshots of the pandemic is talking about mental health now isn't as taboo.

Talking about people who have, you know, feeling suicidal is not taboo anymore. And we've seen such an uptake, especially in suicide with young people. and meaning like 25 down. I find it alarming. I find it terrifying. And I think the more we all talk about it, especially during the month of May, the better.

It's about erasing the stigma. And I don't know what you went through, but people make you, first of all, people are very uncomfortable and don't know what to say when you've had a parent that kills himself.

It's very awkward. And what you just want to say is just spit the fucking words. out. I know what happened. Let's not pretend. And don't tell me they're in a better place. Because guess what? I'm now in a shitstorm of unhappiness. And they did this to me. And I don't know about you, but it takes a long time to process suicide and decisions that people make till you're at peace with it. It took me a long time to be able to say, you know what? I really hate what my dad did. And it was wrong and it's affected me and it will always affect me. And it's completely

fucked up, but I accept his decision and it doesn't make me love him or have wonderful memories anyway. Are you at that point? I am at that point. I'm actually at the point too, and I don't know if you've ever felt like this where I have empathy. The older I get closer to her age, I start to have empathy and I start to, and I don't know if this is because I did mushrooms in the desert and put this together. But I started to put things together like, oh, maybe this. triggered this, then triggered this, then triggered this. And I almost come from a place of understanding rather than anger. You absolutely start to get it, whatever that means. And I think that's part of the acceptance of dealing with the grief from suicide. I think it's hard when someone has hurt you so

badly to get to a place where you say, you know what, I get it. I still think it's wrong. I don't agree with the decisions you made. But I get it. And I still. still love you. Isn't it interesting, though, how it experience stretches you to forgive people? Yes. I will not hold on to anything because I think it ends up hurting me in the long run. That sounds selfish, but it, it, you, you get to a point where like, you can sort of forgive anything because you've, the forgiveness has had to be stretched so much. And what I've observed from an outset with my wife and I kind of, like, we do this all the time and we say a lot of wild shit on here and like, what, and here's a way to caveat this. A lot of times what

people think are big deals or they perceive as big deals. And maybe that is truthful. Like they actually, it is a very big deal to those individuals. Some of those things that people think are big deals to someone like my wife pales in comparison to what was a real big deal in her life, which is her mother taking her life or your father and yours. So like in a way, like sometimes she's desensitized a bit to what other people think is important because it's like you've already experienced some of the worst things that a human can experience. Right. And I always felt that way and I still feel that way, but I hear my mom's voice saying to me, remember everyone's the star of their own movie. Yes. What does that mean?

Meaning that you, just because someone else thinks it's a big deal and you're like, whatever, in their movie, it's a big deal. Their life, it's a big deal. That is such a good line that needs to be the name of your next book. Everybody's a start, well, my next book, which I just turned in, is actually called Lies My Mother Told Me. Oh my God. I can't. The names you guys think of. That is so good. And it's, it's, and in the subtitles, a work of fiction, question mark. Speaking of your mother, obviously, like everybody, I mean, I think there's people throughout history that actually do have a,

like they are like a concrete character and actually changing the way culture interacts. Like, or changing culture. Your mother is probably one of those people. Yes. Not only for women, but for men, the way that you can talk about things, the way you can joke about things. What's taboo? What's not? Like, really somebody that like kind of like stepped out the bounds and like pushed the envelope.

Yeah, think? Yeah. I mean, fully, right? So are you though. You have the same energy as her. Energy, yes, but I know where you're going because we always discuss would she be canceled.

Yeah. And I wonder what, like when you're knowing your mother, as well as you did. I don't think she would because I think she's like Howard Stern where they can say whatever the fuck they want. And she's unapologetic. Right. And I think, as I like to say,

I think her and Howard and for sure Chappelle would be grandfathered in. Yeah, like they could do and say whatever they want and people are like, that's them. Right. The other day, I slightly bent over to pick up some paperwork.

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signed the books. I fucking am allowed to, if I need to, if I need. humor to deal with this, then I need humor to deal with this. And was very unapologetic about that. And I think, yes, we've all learned about sensitivity in certain lines and language and things like that that we cannot cross. And, you know, my mother on the other hand also marched in the 60s. So in the 70s with the women's movement. But it's like, if we don't laugh, we're going to die. If people were like, oh, she was caustic and mean. And it's like, first of all, she came from such a loving place of everything and she was always the butt of her own jokes.

She was self-deprecating. That's the best thing about her. So it's like she used to, towards the end, she would walk out on stage and my mom died six years ago. So it was sort of the beginning of you can't say that.

She would walk out on stage and unleash a string of racial epitaphs. Like, the worst you have ever heard. And then she'd say, we're all something. Now let's go on with the show. What do you think would happen

if she did that in this day and age? Oh, she would, people would have been trying to cancel her the whole time and her answer would have been like, fuck you. Do you think she would have been on social media? Oh, she was and it was a fucking nightmare. I hated her social media. Why? Can we bring it back? Can we go watch it?

I want to watch it. No, you don't. It was all goofy. You know, she tried to do what was not Zoom, not Zoom, but what was the one, Vine. Oh, my God. She would try and do Vine. Now, you have to remember my mother was not tech savvy. So when we tried to switch her from Blackberry to iPhone, it was a huge deal.

And like, I'm trying to teach her how to swipe up. And she would be going like this. Like, her, like, Mom, it doesn't work like that. Like gentle. She'd be like, I am swiping up. And she would be trying to push it with, like, her nail. She was answering the phone. Hello, Mrs. Rosenberg.

Well, no. And then when she would send emails, she would just write the entire thing in the subject line. She would like just start writing and the entire thing would be in the subject line. And then it would come up saying this message has no content. It's kind of endearing though. Yes. I did save all of her emails. We do have those on a file.

What's scary though? No, scary is that someone might get that file. Yeah, that's scary. If you want fucking scary. I think comedy comedians, people like your mom, people like Chappelle, like, I think they're kind of the first people to start. taking subjects that are really heavy and really uncomfortable and helping people heal through them, right? And if we're in a place now where you can't do that anymore, it's like, who is going to start broaching those subjects so that people can actually address real issues, right?

Well, Chris Rock also. Yes. I mean. But I'm saying comedians in general. I feel like the comedy is the first way, at least one of the first ways that we start dealing with really heavy issues. Well, if you want to go deep and engage that side of my brain, I prefer swimming around in the shallow end of the pool.

hence why I'm a fan. That's a Joan Rivers joke right there. I'm very happy with my life walking around the shallow into the pool with a cocktail. Every now and again I paddle to. You know what? I'm an outlet.

That's fine. I'm a fluffy pink outlet. Exactly. But we do. We paddle down and swim around a little bit in the deep end of the pool, maybe just hanging on to the raft because it's a good place to put your drink

and go from there. But if you want to get all deep and make me show off my education, which occasionally I try and do so I don't feel like my parents wasted all that money. Because being a history major really has helped me in life. I'm sure. I bet. Really? I actually bet. Michael always says history repeats itself.

Yes. But look at what I do, what I've been, I've done with my life for a living. But it makes you sharp. It makes me sharp. And thank you, you're very sweet to not agree with me that it does nothing for me. I can tell you, but if we do want to get serious for a second, comedy art in general, but comedy is also a reflection of life. And if you look back through comedy, you can actually trace all the big movements through comedy.

You can trace back and look at a Lenny Bruce, for example, was making jokes and coming out against the Vietnam War and doing it. Well, he went off the deep end. But you can go and look back on that. and trace social history through comedy. And I always say I'm going to write a book doing that, but that takes a lot of work. Well, I think that's what I was saying about cultural shifts, right? Like your mom was somebody that probably changed the way, honestly, a lot of women.

For women, for sure. She was the first one out there talking about going to the gynecologist. She was the first one out there talking about childbirth. Like my wife talks a lot about a lot of wild shit, but I think it's someone like your mom kind of paved the way. Yes. But you really can, if you want to get very deep, talk about comedy as a reflection of society through history.

Well, what do you think is going to happen when people look back on this year? That's a good question. And I think people are going to look back. Again, the short answer is, thank God it's over. The deeper answer is the complete, that we became much more enlightened and much more aware, but we're losing free speech, specifically. comedy. I'm not talking about hate speech. I'm not talking about degrading speech. I'm not talking about any of that. I'm talking about that we're not allowing laughter. And my mother always used to

say, if you could get a really funny Israeli and a really funny Palestinian at the border and hang out and make each other laugh, we would have peace in the Middle East because you can't hate someone that you laugh with. I agree. Do you think that- You can disagree with them, but you can't. I think about our daughter in social studies or history class in 10 years. I was like, do you think there'll be like images of people going crazy, like pulling toilet paper off shelves and being like, remember this period of time when they took toilet paper or when they wore a giant bubble to the soup? Like I wonder if people are looking back at this period of time 10 years.

I'm like, what the hell are these people doing? Absolutely. I think people are going to be like, what? By the way, and wasn't that always a thing? I mean, I haven't been married in, Jesus, my son's 20. I haven't been married in 19 years. But do you, and I don't know if it was with you guys. at bridesmaids at a wedding showers you used to make a toilet paper dress for the bridesma for the bride like now that's like you might as well just hand her over a check because toilet paper was so expensive you know what else are you supposed to do at showers now i hate showers by the way i always hated them oh i want to just do a public service announcement what showers i don't want to play stupid games my baby shower i had a boys a lot of masculine energy and it's just

I just, I wanted alcohol and. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I don't want to play games. I don't want to wear a hat with a big dildo on it. I just, I drink out of a penis straw. No, I just, it's not fun. I know. I'd rather just have cocktails and people and give me some gifts.

Yeah. Or watch some comedy. Yeah. But, yeah, it's like, at least the toilet paper dresses are gone. I'm glad the toilet paper dresses are on. RIP. Yeah. Thank God.

But also, like what you're saying, of course they're going to look back and be that this was the last, God, since Me Too. started. Are we the softest generation? Are we? What? Are we the softest generation? I'm not part of it. Yeah. I asked that question a lot. But you're not a millennial. No, that's true. What are we? Yes, we are. You're millennials? Yeah, we're millennials. 87 was my birth year. So what does that make me? I guess that does make you. I don't know what the cutoff is. I don't know either. I think you're 87. No, because my son was 2000 and he's a gen X. I know we're not Gen Z. He's a Gen Z. My son's a Gen Z. How did you meet your first husband?

I rode horses competitively for years and I met him through the... My first husband. My only husband? You never know. You never know. I mean, in L.A., what do you mean? People marry first for... What is it?

First for friendship, then for money, then for companionship. I don't know. I'm looking for money. Just skip the fucking friendship. Skip the fucking friendship. Companion, who? Yeah. I need jewelry and a private plane.

I'll be on the lookout for you. Yeah, please do. Because I apparently am repel people. What? Oh, I do. My friends are like, you're so intimidating. I'm like, no, I'm not. You are having you on the podcast, you are, I was just thinking when you started talking,

one of my most exciting guests we've ever had because you know how to handle a mic. It's rare. Yes, it is rare. But I'm not, I mean, I'm such an insecure, quivering fool that like I live half my life in what I call earthquake preparedness position. Oh, you're like Michael. Yeah, because something horrible is always going to happen. Like, enjoy the moment when things are good because you know what happens after things are good.

Things become really bad. That's called M-U-S. What? Made up stress. He does it to me. He brings it to me. Whoa. That's me.

Take it away from, I don't want this energy around me. Bye. Yeah, no. It's only downhill from here. Yeah. You know, in this moment, we're good, but you know that this moment's going to go away. Yeah, that's me. The other day, I caught Michael juving in his man cave.

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news. You're going to go to juve.com slash skinny. That's j-o-o-ovv.com slash skinny and use code skinny. You'll get the exclusive discount on J-Juv's next generation devices. Exclusions apply limited time only. Red light is going to become your new best friend. I fake. I'm a fake confident. I play confident on TV. I mean, I would never think that you have any spec of insecurity. Oh my God. But that's good to know. It opens to, this allows everyone to be like, oh yeah, this part of me is insecure. Who isn't insecure in some part? Everyone's insecure. But literally, like, when I used to go out on dates, pre-COVID, where I would go out on, like, a date or two, the first one I went on after ending a long-term relationship, I literally was shaking and sweating.

Why? I don't know. Ask Dr. May. What's your type so we can just put it out there into the ether? Got to be funny. Got to be funny. Not repulsive looking. I used to say attractive, but now I'm just going for, like, not repulsive.

repugnant. Yeah, I'm not, like, looks, I feel like we can work with. Yeah, good manners, bad table manners, got to go. Okay. I can't deal with bad table manners. Taylor's off the table, keep going. Good. Bad table manners, no go. I used to always just say, like, confident and successful, but that's sort of backfired on me. But they have to be successful and confident, but they also have to not be intimidated or put off because- Like self-assured. Right, because what happens is, and this happened to me, twice where, and one of them was in my one of my long-term relationships. In the beginning, they're all like, oh, it's, you're like, I'm like a novelty. I'm like a party trick. And then

they start getting really annoyed when they start making plans and people go, oh, well, is Melissa coming? And that gets, that gets, that gets. I would want you at my party too, though. Yeah, but at one point, you're like, their ego is getting the way. Yeah, you do, you have to find a very specific kind of man. Right. Which I can imagine was the same with your mother. It's the same with a lot of women, your dominant energy so I can see why you would need

someone who's very, very comfortable with himself. What I find fascinating is if you look at a lot of the actresses right now, all in that late 40s,

early 50s group, first of all, which I love is they're all still considered the most beautiful and the most glamorous. So fashion-wise, they're still winning,

which I love. A lot of them are single. Yeah, look at J-Lo. Well, as of today, she's back with, allegedly back with Ben. Well, Ben Affleck's dick and Gone Girl was a huge penis.

I mean, I could see why she went back. But you can see why she went back. So apparently, she doesn't stay single for a long. Yeah, but she kind of lily pads. Yeah, she totally, or not lily pads. She loves being in love. Yes. I think that you're going to find someone when you,

when you keep putting it out there that you want someone who's confident and comfortable. But are you saying that a lot of these women are single because a lot of the men just are not confident enough to deal with strong women. I mean, I was reading something about, I think it was Shirley's Theron, I never remember which it is, saying, really, some guy's going to walk up to me? Like, she's right. She's an Academy Award winning actress. She's 200 feet tall and staggeringly gorgeous. Yeah, and what do you say, hey, what do you do for a living? Or like, that's hard. Yeah. And not to like, do like, same with Angelina Jolie. Exactly. But I know Shirley's talked about it in an interview, like, really some guys just going to come up to me in a party.

know. But I think like maybe in that, like if you talk about like 40, 50, 60 year old men, I think they grew up or they came up in a generation where you didn't see, I mean, not that there weren't strong women, you didn't see as many women doing so much, so many powerful things, right? Like there's women doing a lot of really powerful things that kind of, if you're a man, you're like, oh, I thought I was going to be. It's a mind shift. All of a sudden you're like playing second film. You are unique though, and I feel like it's hard for you to speak on this because his mother is a ball buster. She's confident. She's, she's, She's like, she's like, you know, he's speaking from an observational point of you.

I'm speaking from an observational. And honestly, even what I see some of my friends doing, right? Like they get with a woman who is vastly more successful or known or has a better career. And it fucks with these guys. Because they're like, wait a minute. Like I thought I was that. And now you're with somebody that is what you thought you were supposed to be. Also, I think it's because you have to allow someone else's work, maybe take precedence over yours. Someone's. Someone's. Someone's. not at your beck and call. I had that experience where it was when I dated for a hot sec. Or you don't feel as needed, right? Well, but also when the second I wasn't at his beck and call, really unhappy. That's, I feel like that's not for you. No, totally not for me. Totally not for me. You're extremely entrepreneurial. Yes. Well, look who I'm sitting here talking to. You guys are super entrepreneurial. Entrepreneurial. I'll take that from Melissa Rivers. I'll take the compliment. Take them off the compliment. Oh my God. Like, like I said, like I follow you. you and I'm on your website and I knew all about our little skin roller and I'm getting you one yeah and your

your love of pastels she's wearing a pastel pink we need to take a moment for this one in happy shoes let me see oh my god those shoes are so major with the pink pastel yeah yeah yeah I dressed for you I love it so I'm blue dry my hair your hair looks great but I because I it got dried this Taylor tried to give you a hug during COVID and a kiss and I yeah elbowed him yeah well because you know yeah I think he's just you know yeah he's just you know he's So second nature now. But I was always real weird with germy things. Well, now this is a great opportunity for people who are germy, like a Howie Mendel.

Right. I mean, this is heaven for him. You know what I just put in the, and listen, I love that you just, like, just like showed up and you guys were in the elevator. But one of the rules I put in and I'm going to cite COVID for it, but it's actually very exciting to me is nobody's allowed to show up to the studio with entourageers. They get to bring one person. Because we've had some guests show up and there's like the role in 20 people deep. And I'm like, where are all these people going? Right.

Now with COVID, I could say, hey, listen, you get one. And it's, you know, some people don't like it. Yeah, we have to look for the perks. But it's, you know, I get to say the germy situation to get rid of entourages. But you have a small child, so you're really like, germy. I'm not. Oh, I let my son eat dirt. You know, stuff drops on the ground.

I'm like, everyone's like, oh, that's your second kid. On my first kid, I was like, yeah, she's going to be okay. Yeah. No, my son ate dirt. Yeah, it's, they all get to the finish line. You know, exactly. That's why his immune system's good. let him lick the pavement.

That's fun. Whatever works. I'm saying, I can't believe, like I said, I can't believe he's 20. How were you such an entrepreneur when you were raising a son? It seems like as a single parent. Well, again, I raised him how my parents raised me. And their whole thing was separate it. Separate it.

But also, if one parent was on the road for more than two weeks, the whole family went. My parents' offices were always in our home, except for very specific times. It was like if they had a production going on. They had production offices. So I was raised right there with them. And their feeling was always, I should be exposed, obviously not to the really crappy stuff. It's a family.

I've always said it's a family business. People like, how do you, how did you end up doing what you do? I said, well, at one point in college, I'm like, I'm not going into the entertainment business. I'm going to go into advertising because that's such a huge leap, right? And then I was with a friend or a couple girlfriends And they were talking about, oh my God, I love this person Or I love this actress.

And she's so nice and she's this. And I'm thinking, oh my God, I know this person. She's a raging bitch. And at that point, I realized, I only know the entertainment business And I don't think I could ever sit And not know what was going on behind the scenes. I mean, I'm sure you're like that now at this point too.

What goes on behind the scenes? But you know what I'm saying? What are we not seeing? No, but like you know how people really behave, who has a good reputation, who has a bad reputation. Like D-Bi, like mean. Yeah, all that. You don't have to get names.

But just like a bitch. Yeah. I mean, you start to know all that and you're here long enough. You know, this one's difficult and this one's this. And, you know, there's a couple of actresses that I've not been wanting, that may have been on projects that I was working on where you're like, oh, life is too short. Well, this is. You know?

Yeah. This is one of the only. And I couldn't, how could I not? It's like, everyone's like, I went to the family business. Like this is all I know how to do. I'm not qualified to do anything else. I feel like you were made for this, though. Made for a mic, made for video.

Maybe. I mean, I like to think so. But again, like I said, like with my son, it's like, it's very clear. And I'd pick him up and off we'd go to work. Or, you know, I had a nanny. I'm not embarrassed by it. And he would come to wherever I was shooting or go to wherever grandma was shooting. Or he would, when we'd have red carpet days and we'd have to be there super early,

he would, we would take his soccer ball or whatever. And I would turn him loose on the red car. carpet to blow out some energy. I mean, I would have loved to play soccer on the red carpet. Yeah, but I remember at that point, the carpet's still covered in plastic, and it's just a bunch of crew guys, and that's who he, it was like me. I grew up backstage. You know, this was like when I first started doing the Dear Media thing, it was challenging

because I didn't come from entertainment at all. Like, I was running businesses had nothing to do with anything in entertainment. And so I was used to putting deals together negotiating based on either something somebody created or something, like, and this was the weirdest thing. I came in and it was like you were expected almost to deal with people and negotiate based on like a character they either play make believe with or some or like some kind of person they know and in the beginning it was challenging because I was like I can't do business like I want to know who the person is right what they're about and that's what I talk about social currency I was like I think

you're in we're in this bubble here sometimes and for when you're trying to get to the course and like at the end of the day you want to know like are they a good person are they trustworthy are they are they can do the job they're hired it like all these things but it's one of the weirdest industries because you negotiate with things that are like make believe in many other places. That makes sense. Totally. Did you read, I mean, again, also a lot of bad behaviors accepted? Yes.

And it's like that, yes. And like, there's no way that these behaviors that have some of I've observed would ever be accepted in any other sphere of business. No. Not whatsoever. And I absolutely agree with that. And, you know, a lot has been coming out and starting with like all the Me Too stuff. But did you read that article about Scott Rudin?

No, but I know what you're referencing. Yes. What? Tell us. It was a started about this very, very powerful producer who has a reputation of being a crazy man and a screamer and throwing stuff. And finally there was just this, it was like two weeks ago, three weeks ago, a big expose by, they interviewed all of his old assistants and this, that they're calling it the reckoning after all these years to come out and say, this man is so beyond abusive.

Now, the joke is they can write those articles all they want. All he needs is another hit and everything. everything's forgiven. Is that really like how it is in Hollywood, you think? You're only, yeah, I mean, I, you know, it's like sports, you're only as good as your last game. Yeah, like, I think, yeah, what you're, in other spheres of business, you can't do that stuff in the middle. Like, okay, cool, you're good. You get away.

Like, this is a, it's a weird place where like. Athletes can. Oh, athletes can totally get away with shit. Athletes can. Yeah. I think some influencers can. Oh, absolutely. If I hear one more person, like, I'm sorry.

And it's like, really? How about don't be an. idiot. I would love to know, and this is really weird, your morning routine. You write a lot. Do you have a morning routine that you go to to get your mind in a place to write? Are you just waking up and writing? Summer is coming. And you know what I love during the summer, Michael Bostick? I love a cold beer, which is why I am so excited that Coors Pure just came out with an organic beer. It's simple, straight to the point. It has organic barley, organic hops, and water. But here's the thing. I'm a huge beer drinker, but I don't usually explore it because it can feel heavy on the gut and I get super bloated.

This one, tried it, guys, zero sugar at 92 calories. And it's the perfect beer for the summer. Like, I feel like it is the beer of the summer. Guys can drink it. Weston steals it out of my fridge every single day. Michael loves it. I'm telling you, if you want to enjoy a beer and not feel bloated, this is it, okay? I feel like we all are working out. We're eating healthy. We're doing all the things, all the wellness trends. If you're going to drink a beer, why not make it organic, okay? This is like the beer that you want to make a Michelado with. How I like to make my Michelado, just on a side note, is with lots of ice, a Coors Pure, a little bit of tomato juice, maybe a Tahoe rum, and I am ready to go. That is a skinny Michelotta for you, okay? Coors Pier is the perfect beer to celebrate the wins of everyday life.

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Oh, I don't wake up and write. I'll wake up and write something down. I wake up usually about, well, it depends. Am I sleep? I can sleep anywhere, so I'm a good sleeper like that. Like, I can put my head down right here and be out cold, not a problem. But I can't stay asleep. So lately, I've been waking up about 545, 6, which is like a nightmare because it's just awful.

And the dogs don't go get. Now, unfortunately, the dogs are getting up that early, which is a whole other issue. And I just, I have my coffee. I have to watch the news in the morning. Big Today Show person. Watch the Today Show. Got to make it through Pop Start because let's be honest, that's what I really care about. Check emails.

Every morning I play my solitaire game. First thing on my phone. Because I have to get crowns in all the dates. And if I miss a day and I get it and it doesn't have the little shiny parts in it, I'm not happy. It's like the only place of my life that I have control. And then I just start my day, depending upon what's going on. I have scheduled time at least once a week with my writing partner. And we go at it.

Writing partner is someone that you sit down and you tell all these incredible stories that you have to. Well, we go back and forth. Like on the most current book that we just turned in, we were like, it started out as a history book. Like my mother's version of everything in history. Okay. And then it sort of just morphed into a funny book where there is some retelling of history. there is just stuff that we make up that goes. There are a couple Easter eggs in there.

There are a couple stories that are true. But like we rewrite the first Thanksgiving. Do you tell us what stories are true? Giving it away. Oh, I want to read it. I told you I've read all the books. Yeah, but you'll have to read that one to figure it out. Say the name of the one that I just read again because it's so funny.

Oh, God, that was an old one. Men are stupid and like big boobs. I like diary. That was the book's name. I like Diary of a Mad Diva. Yeah, that's a good one too. That's a good one too. Very good story.

tell her. She almost got sued over that one. But you know what? What would it be of her not getting sued to write a book? That's what I would expect. Well, the thing was the person, and I'm going to remain nameless, got very litigious and their lawyer wanted all the books to be pulled and this and that and the other from a particular story, which was true that my mom told in it. And she said, that's fine. I will see that. I will go to court and I'm going to bring in an anatomically correct doll. And ask this woman to show us on the doll where she touched the alleged person she had an affair with. Show me on the doll where you touched it.

So what ended up happening? Oh, they, nothing happened. They were out. I love it. Yeah. She was smart. Prove that it's wrong. There's photos of you with this person that were all over the tabloids when you were cheating

and he was cheating and you're mad at me that I'm telling that story in my book. Here's a doll show. Because everyone knows everyone's going to read. that book because she was such a good writer. But the funny thing was, she's like, fine, show me on the doll. When you guys started Fashion Police, you started in the behind the scenes and she was on the camera and then it shifted, how did that work? In the original iteration, I was one of the co-hosts.

Then it went away. Then it came back. And that's when she came back as the host and I came back as the executive producer. And then after she passed, we went through a guest host. We tried to use Kathy Griffin, which was just a debacle. And then we put the show on hiatus for a minute, and we were trying all these different guest hosts. And the network came to me and said, we'll use you for the first one and the last one, but we want to try all these hosts in between.

And I just knew in my gut the only person that the fans would accept replacing her was me. And I said, no, I'm not doing the first one. And then you're going to try all these people. and then I get to go and clean up at the end. Like, oh, well, it's been a good try. See you guys. I'm like, you give me the show or I'm out. And I basically called the head of our network at that point and said,

I'm done. I can't take this anymore. It would be really hard. And by the way, I got the job within 24 hours. I just said, I can't. I go, it makes me too. I would literally sit in my car and sob hysterically after tapings. I would think one of the reasons that you were sobbing and tell me if I'm wrong is that you're

kind of like, like you can't really say all. the things you want to say because you're on network TV, that would be really hard for me not to say like penis and vagina. That wasn't that wasn't it at all. It was having to watch my baby get destroyed. It was having to watch. What do you mean? Because they were bringing, you know, they wanted to try all these different hosts and I knew now that we're going to work. And, you know, we went through the Kathy Griffin thing and trying it. It just, I felt like, you know, I'm watching my baby be slowly suffocated. That makes sense. And I would get in the car and just sob. How much control do you have when you're on a show like that for the behind the scenes?

Well, I was the executive producer of the show. So do you have all the control? No, the network has all the control. I was, they have to say, they were very respectful, but there was a lot of creative disagreements right after my mom died. And it just, we had to work through it. And, but it did get to the point where I was so unhappy. I called and said, I'm, I can't. And so, did you part ways after that? Was it over? No, after 20, they called me. I said, I'm done. They said, give us 24 hours. And they fixed it. No.

And they called me and they said the show's yours. That's how I started hosting it. And you could do full creative. Well, we always did the full creative. But, you know,

there are restrictions. You are on TV. You can't just goddamn motherfucking piece of shit. You can't do that. You know, you have to stay, you know,

within certain limits. So, but just like my own eyes used to joke, you can say ass and you can say whole, but you can't say asshole. Oh, you can say ass and you can say whole.

Right, but you can't say separately. Asshole. But you can say ass. Yeah, you can say someone looks like an ass or someone's acting like an ass, but you can't say they're an asshole. Looking back on your career and your mother's career, are there times that you can pinpoint where you guys got in trouble for not being politically correct? Oh, no, my mother, I spent quite a bit of time in HR.

I would love to know stories about that. Between my mother and some of our writers and things people would post, the other EP and I, would often have to be an HR just because someone would make a joke and someone else would be offended. And we had one that tried to, we had one producer that tried to sneak out of like our mandatory network sensitivity training. And he was like, oh, I'm going to the bathroom and hidden all of his stuff. And then someone else found him in the hallway and was like, really? You're not going like, you know, we were always getting in trouble for stuff like that. It's like, really mandatory sensitivity training wrong show.

I was obsessed with all your shows. The E1 is the one that's fresh in my mind, but you also did a show with your mother. Yes, the reality show. Tell us about that. Oh, that was a small slice of hell. Oh, my God, I loved it as a year. I know.

But again, my mother and I spent so much time together, the last thing we needed. Because first of all, my mother stayed in my house when we were shooting. So we were doing fashion police once a week. So she was always there. And which is great for my son, who was spoiled rotten by grandma and so close with her. So in that sense, I'm really happy. But when you're an adult and have a life and your mother's there three days a week and a mother that's controlling or opinionated,

like, my mom would come in and just move my furniture. I kind of love that. You love it for a minute. But years of it, you're like, get the fuck. Stop touching my shit. It's kind of amazing. she just come in and move everything. Yeah.

She was just, oh, this is, I'm not, and then I'm not telling you what to do. Did your mother ever, like, one of the questions and topics

that comes up a lot on this show is where to find confidence. And we, you know, there's been different guests to give different answers. And she was terribly insecure. Well,

that's what I wanted to ask you. And shy. And she's also like, you know, she gave it as good as she got it. And she was joking with a lot of men and comedians. They're like taking really strong.

I mean, even when she did some of those, like those roast, like people were brutal sometimes with her. And I wanted to ask you, like, did she just have the thickest skin or she just learned how to deflect? Like, what, where do you think that confidence muscle came from with her? You know, again, it was such a separation of work and the person. And I think that was sort of the saving grace. Because, and by the way, and as a season comedian, you know all the jokes people

are going to make. She's like, I'm not going to talk about that I'm old. They're going to talk about plastic surgery. They're going to talk about your dad. And that's something with the comedians. You're not making jokes about anything people don't already know. know that aren't sort of, my mom would say when people would be, how can you make jokes about so and so or someone would be upset. I would say, you have to understand to make a joke about someone and for it to work. People have to, yeah. You have to be such a part of the public Zygus, Zygus, Zike, Zike, Zike, Zike, Zike, Zikis. This morning, I'm that words alluding. It's a hard word. Just not working for me this morning. That you have to realize how big you are

for the joke to work. And my mom, one time she was friends with Cher, and my mom changed the name and took Cher out of the act. And she was like, why am I out of the act? Because that's someone who is smart going, I'm not making a big enough public splash that a joke about me works. Whoa.

That's a totally different way to look at it. That makes so much sense. Yeah. If you're big enough to be made fun of and have jokes made about you that work, you're huge. That means people have a working knowledge of you to a point that they get the joke,

that they get the humor. It's kind of like the Caitlin Jenner roast. Yeah. That worked really well. Yeah, or the Alec Baldwin one. I mean, something is you have to be so big for jokes to work.

Yeah, that makes sense. And people have to look at it that way, like, wow, I've arrived. Meaning like you're already saying things that everybody either thinks or knows or feels about you anyway, just calling it to light. Not just calling to light.

Can understand why it's funny. Yeah. It's a whole secondary. level that you can make a joke about someone in the world knows why it's funny. Yeah. That's huge. That is huge. It reminds me like the Kardashians too.

But that's a perfect example. Yeah. That's a perfect example. And that's why they take it because they know that's a sign of success. Yeah. Makes total sense. One thing your mom did for me and I don't know if she did this for you too and maybe your friends or whoever is she talked about plastic surgery.

I've talked about very old. openly since the time I started blogging 12 years ago. Like, let's talk about Botox. Let's talk about boot jobs. Now everyone's talking about it. It's the thing. She was the pioneer of someone who called it out instead of hiding it. Because we all know a lot of people in her generation got

all the shit done and didn't talk about it. Yes. And that used to bug the shit ever. It's like... I don't blame her. She'd be like, don't make me swallow this. You have a brand new face. You know what I mean? I'm looking at it. As she always... Who's your doctor? Yeah. But as she always used to say, you better, what's you say for women of a certain age,

better a new you getting out of an old car than an old you getting out of a new car. Whoa. That's a good one. That's a good one. Isn't that a good one? Yeah. But now, like, I feel like if she was here now, it wouldn't be weird that she's talking about the stuff. No, not at all.

But again, she was the first one to talk about going to the gynaecologist. She was the first one to talk about having children. What are you doing raising kids? Me? Yeah. I am doing great. I did not think I was maternal. I wasn't maternal until they put them in.

I had only held one baby or two babies in my life before they put Cooper in my arms. I wasn't maternal the second they put her in my arms. It took me. I need to get to know someone. She had to court me. By the way, my mom said my father really was like, oh, I love her, but really had no relationship with me until I could respond. I love it. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It took a little bit. But now I'm obsessed and I get it and I understand it. But I also think that for me, like, and I feel like you feel the same way, that it can't be your entire. Well, for me, it can't be my entire identity. No.

Like, I don't want to lead with, I love leading with that. I'm a mother, but I'm other things too. And that's what a lot of my friends and I went through when our kids went off to college. Like, I'm, whether you know it or not, being a mom is what you are. And especially for women, I think, who are professionals and spend so much time at work, the focus and love you have to give during the times that you are a part of. of it becomes so much more intense. Like I would take my son's lacrosse schedule, like when he was playing in high school

or club or we didn't when he's little, and I would block out the games. And I would be there. And I would go to school and you sign up for like room mom stuff. I would grab that thing, the calendar, as soon as I could on parents' day and mark out everything I could do and immediately text it to my office and say block these. What would you do when like all the moms wanted to get together? I had great, I have great mom friends. You found your group.

I found my group for sure. Now, yeah, I found my group. What was that look? That was the like... Because Cooper played a sport competitively so much, a lot of my group were moms or dads from our club system rather than school. Okay. So you just have to find your...

You just to find your group. I just had dinner with a bunch of our lacrosse parents the other two weeks ago. Are you the life of the party? No. You aren't? No. I am really lucky. I have amazing friends that are very funny and very interesting and very fun.

And by the way, none of them are only ones in the entertainment business. That's interesting. So it seems like you're attracted to people's humor and wit, obviously. That would make a lot of sense. And my closest friends are these people I went to college with, which is really interesting, I think. And just by chance, I'm the only one who was from L.A. and just by chance a bunch of them all moved out to LA and we all, again, accidentally all live within like three miles of each other

and have raised all of our kids together. It sounds like you are very well-rounded to me. One tries because mentally I'm just a hot mess, so at least I seem well-rounded. Yeah, it seems like that you have all the boxes checked. If you could leave our audience with a book, a podcast, or a resource that's brought you a lot of value, what would that be? A book, a podcast that brings a lot of value.

Or any just kind of resource along the way that you just thought like inspirational or helpful or provides relief, like whatever. Oh, God. I have to think for a minute. The most important thing that I've learned, how about a thing that I've learned? Yes, that's great. Is, and I'm always working on this is, well, I was a history major. My parents were huge history buffs, basically all we read in our house was nonfiction. And I still am like that. And a big Winston Churchill fan. Huge. You're going to love this. I love Winston Churchill. And it was sort of our family. We had two family sayings. And one was from Winston Churchill, which was when you find yourself in hell, or when you find yourself in hell, just keep walking.

It's a bastard version of it. Meaning just put your head down and keep going. It's going to get better. And the other thing my parents always would say, especially my mom, was this two shall pass. but it was for both good and bad. It means appreciate the good because it's going to change at some point and know that the bad is going to go away also. What a quote to leave us with. You are welcome back on this podcast

anytime you want to come back on. Honestly, I could have asked you 100 more questions. I really could have. I know we haven't even gotten into parenting. No, why don't you come back? I'm not joking. Come back for part two. I'll literally book it after this.

Come back and talk about parenting. For sure. You have a podcast. You have a book coming. out, pimp yourself out. Tell us where to find you. My podcast is called Melissa Rivers Group Text. So cute. Because it's all, when I was looking at all my different group texts, they were funny, and they were about everything. And I was always like, don't put me in a lane. I can't just be a Mommy podcast or a gossip podcast or whatever. Like, we're all much more than the lane people try and stick us in. So we talk about everything. But all my books are on Amazon and I just turned in the manuscript for Lies My Mother told me. What book would you start with of yours and which book would you start with of your moms? Of my moms, I would start with Enter Talking, which was her first autobiography.

Absolutely start with that one. Learn her story. And for me, I would start with Book of Joan, Tales of Mirt, Mishch, and Manipulations. I've read that. It's great. Thank you. I'm such a fan. Thank you.

Thank you so much for coming on. What's your Instagram handle? Melissa Rivers Official. And follow her. She's great, you guys. And you're coming back for part two. Yes. Parenthood.

We'll talk about Parenthood. What about parenting. Okay. I need some tips. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. Thanks, Melissa. By the way, do you want to win a copy of my pink cheeky new book that's available on Amazon Target Barnes & Noble and where all small books are sold?

It is called Get the Fuck Out of the Sun. All you have to do to win a signed copy is tell us your favorite part of this episode with Melissa on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic. We love hearing from you guys and we love all the feedback. We appreciate you. Make sure you've rated and reviewed the podcast if it's brought you any kind of value. and with that, we'll see you next time.