The Bossticks - My Fair Junkie Amy Dresner On Sex Addiction, Drug Addiction, & The Road To Recovery

Starting point is 00:00:00 The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Starting point is 00:00:22 If you say you're an AA and then you relapse, it makes it look like AA doesn't work. And my thing is, A.A. doesn't work for everybody. And relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. And if you know someone who has cancer and they go through chemotherapy and they still die, do you think that chemotherapy doesn't work? No, you fucking don't. You think it just didn't work in that case. So I think it's crazy to not talk about it. I don't know how it can be a thing of attraction when no one knows you're fucking in it. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. We have such a fire episode. This show, I am so excited. It can. goes all over the place. We talk about addiction. We talk about sex addiction. We talk about meth. We talk about crack. We talk about squirting. It goes everywhere. If you have kids in the car, I would probably not listen to this episode in front of kids. On that note, that clip that you just heard was from our guest of the show today, Amy Dresner. She's a journalist, an author, and a former comedian. She's also a recovering addict and alcoholic. She wrote one of my favorite addiction memoirs,

Starting point is 00:01:28 which is why I wanted to have her on the show. It's called My Fair Junkie. And I was so attracted to how transparent she was throughout the book that I just knew the audience would love her. There's something so beautiful and just sharing your truth and owning it. And she totally does that in the book. One of my favorite things about this episode in particular is, you know, what we love to do on this show is have unfiltered conversations with things that aren't

Starting point is 00:01:53 necessarily explored regularly and aren't explored in such a raw and unfiltered way. Amy is definitely raw and unfiltered on this episode. And I think what these conversations do is they open people's eyes to other experiences that people may have. And it also takes subjects that may be taboo and brings them to the light so that people can actually discuss them. I think it's so important, especially in this day and age, where people actually start to listen and discuss things and keep an open mind. And so having Amy on the show to shed light on addiction, sex addiction, and all the things that we dive into is so helpful because there's so many people that struggle with these things and aren't able to have comfortable conversations with everyone in their lives. And so hopefully conversations

Starting point is 00:02:30 like this make it okay for other people that are struggling with addiction and any other thing else that's uncomfortable or a struggle so that they can actually start talking about this in an empowering way to seek help or heal or seek comfort. And that's why I love being able to do this show is that we can highlight things like this that can potentially help someone. I think that to just playing off what Michael said, it's normalizing conversation like this and not, like Michael said, making it so taboo. I personally have really, really struggled in my family. A lot of people in my family are addicts, and it runs in my family.

Starting point is 00:03:05 My sister came on the podcast. A while ago, you can Google the skinny confidential Faye. She came on and shared her story with addiction. My mom had addiction in her family. And so to have Amy on and be so transparent, like I said, and real, especially during quarantine when a lot of addicts are struggling, was really powerful. All right, let's meet Amy. She is dynamic.

Starting point is 00:03:26 She is a firecracker. You're going to love her. She's a freelance columnist and author of the addiction memoir, My Fair Junkie. She's also the co-host of Rehab Confidential podcast. With that, let's meet Amy. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, so I was just saying that I am obsessed with reading addiction memoirs. It's honestly a hobby.

Starting point is 00:03:50 I read scar tissue by Anthony Kedis, favorite one, and then I read yours. And I was like, holy shit. You have a lot of masculine energy in the way you approached writing it. It was so honest, especially for a woman. I have a lot of masculine energy just in general. Yeah, I wanted you on the podcast immediately after I finished it. And I was like, I mean, I'm straight, but. And my voice is really low.

Starting point is 00:04:15 You know, I was raised by my dad. And it's just like, I don't know. I was, I don't know what masculine energy regarding writing is. I just was like, I got to be honest. I've never had a really good filter. And when I wrote the book, I was really like, I have to be as honest as I can. Otherwise, I'm not going to help people. If I'm trying to look good, then it's just vanity writing.

Starting point is 00:04:34 And then, like, who's it going to help? Like, I wrote it to help people. I'm waiting for your next one. I know. I know. I know. Can you, like, go have some experiences? Oh, I know.

Starting point is 00:04:43 Well, I mean, like, stay safe, but also. Well, like, I know. Well, I've got some stories that I didn't, like, I didn't blow my whole load in that first book because everyone's like, don't blow. And I was like, so I still have some horrible stories. But, you know, a lot of people want to know what happened after because, like, my whole world exploded in a horrible way after. What? Yeah. Well, I can't tell you because I'm going to put it all in the book.

Starting point is 00:05:06 You have to give us a tease. But let's go back, though, because I think context of, you know, Lauren's, Lauren's read the book. Yeah. A lot of the audience is unfamiliar with their stores. I want to go like, way. Yeah, well, they need to go buy it. Hi. Hello.

Starting point is 00:05:17 Stop the podcast right now and go buy it. Right. And go buy it new on Amazon. Okay. Like, I'd like to get a royalty check, please. Yeah, my fair junkie, you got to buy it. But just to give us context of your childhood, take us way, way back so we can sort of meet you and meet Amy because they're going to buy the book because I'm telling you guys it's the best book. But first tell us where you grew up, how you grew up, what your childhood was like.

Starting point is 00:05:39 I grew up in Beverly Hills and Laurel Canyon. My mom was a designer. My dad was a screenwriter. I was an only child. My parents divorced when I was two. I just kind of was shuttled around between the two of them. I went to Westlake when it was all girls private uniform school in Bel Air. Yeah, right.

Starting point is 00:05:54 So I was like, but it was weird because my parent, my mom, there's a lot of addiction in my family and there's a lot of depression in my family. And I got the double whammy! I hit the genetic lottery with both of those things. I was kind of like a pure girl. Like I was like very obsessed with purity when I was growing up. And my father was like, if you don't drink or smoke or do drugs before you're 18, I'll give you $1,000. And I was a joke.

Starting point is 00:06:19 Like, that's how Jews raise each other. We just bribe each other. And I was like, $1,000. dollars excellent i mean i was fucking young then you know so i waited till i was 19 and i'm in college and uh god and i show up at college it's like sophomore year i went to santa cruz then transferred to emerson and i'm in college and i'm like i'm a virgin and i've never drank and everyone's like what's up freco you know and i was like oh shit it's nothing cool it's like this horrible albatross around my neck and i was like i need to get laid and loaded like immediately so

Starting point is 00:06:48 i started drinking and i lost my virginity it was a horrible experience and in the book. What happened? Oh, okay. You got to read the book. You got to read the book. Come on, man. We got to tease these motherfuckers. Horrible, horrible experience. I mean, does anyone have a good experience? I don't know if anyone really, some people may be. Mine was vanilla. Yeah, mine was not vanilla. Mine was, if you read it, you're just like, oh, wow. And so it wasn't until I just kind of didn't know. I was just like, so good. And then sort of at 24, I moved to San Francisco. And I was like, I don't know who I am. And I'm going to find out who I am by who I'm not. I'm going to say yes to everything. Whatever comes my way. Performing and drugs and girls and I'm going to just say yes

Starting point is 00:07:27 to the universe. And it was like, I think Shonda Rhymes wrote a book called The Year of Saying Yes. And like hers turned out really well. Mine, not so much. I turned out to be a fucking full-blown speed freak at the end of my year. Was that the drug of choice speed? Well, I didn't, I didn't know what my drug of choice was. I didn't smoke pot until I was like 21. And then I'm in San Francisco and I'm like, I had grown up really privileged and had a trust fund and all this kind of stuff. And I was like in San Francisco is like the way like, it's cool to be homeless, man. And it's cool. Like so I was like, I got to throw all that off and be like, fuck yeah, man.

Starting point is 00:07:58 Everyone's like, are you on like GA, like general assistance? I'm on, I'm like, I'm on grandpa's assistance. You know what I mean? So it was like I got. So I did all the things I never. My father, I got a job in a restaurant. My father was like, oh yeah, you got a job in a restaurant? That's nice.

Starting point is 00:08:14 Graduated Magna Cum Laudey, right? Just totally completely lost my shit once I graduated. I thought I was going to be an actress, like every jackass kid in Hollywood. Realized very quickly I could not, I could be only myself. So that's why I ended up doing comedy later. But completely like had a nervous breakdown, was drinking during the day, got fired from every job. So I moved to San Francisco and I get a job. My dad says, oh, you got a job in a restaurant?

Starting point is 00:08:37 Are you a hostess? And I said, no. You said, you waitress? And I said, no. I said, I'm a dishwasher. You said, did they know you've watched about 10 fucking dishes in your whole life? So it's just this whole kind of removing of like the princess. thing and I sort of dove into this whole other world and I was waitressing one night.

Starting point is 00:08:54 I was tired and because I'd stayed up doing Molly with this couple. Because I was in the year of yes, man. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? Like why do you think you wanted to rebel so hard against like the way you were, you know, obviously raised? I have a really, yeah, I have a good relationship with my parents, specifically my dad and I are really tight. I think I wanted to please them really badly.

Starting point is 00:09:16 I think I felt really repressed kind of growing up and was like, Like, my father was sort of my main paternal, my mom and my dad. My mom moved to Mexico when I was 13 to weave rugs and stuff. So I went through puberty with my dad. So it was like, I think I just didn't want, I had to like submerge all my sexuality so that he could be my mom and my dad because I don't want to become a woman and be sexual and then him pushed me away. You know what I mean? So I sort of submerged all that. Wow, that is some soul searching. Oh, well, it's, holy shit. It's a zillion years of fucking therapy is what it is. Yeah, I bought people limos with the fucking, yeah. So, okay, so you stayed up doing Molly with a couple. Yeah, and this guy, this neighbor was like, hey, man,

Starting point is 00:09:57 I'm like, I'm so tired. I got to go waitress at this Ethiopian restaurant. And I'm like the worst waitress in the world. I'm like, I'm so uncoordinated. I'm really clumsy. I'm really uncoordinated. But Ethiopian food's all in like one platter. Just one platter. It's like one manhole. I was like, well, that I can do. Like, then I was, but I was, I knocked shit over. I was totally like, but I got the highest. tips because I was funny. So anyway, I'm tired. Eventually, I got fired.

Starting point is 00:10:24 And then I worked for the quadriplegic guy, which is really an intense part of the book. That is such a good part of the book. And you really go into that. Yeah. And that probably in a way, I don't know if humbled is the right word. Oh, yeah. Well, then I got really humbled when I tried to stab my ex and then like ended up on the chain gang.

Starting point is 00:10:44 I'm telling you this book. Well, we're bouncing around it. I want to... Michael's got his pop. Michael's like, okay, wait, stay on track. Quadrilegic. Quadriplegic, stabbing, chain game, Marley speed.

Starting point is 00:10:57 So, anyway, my neighbor goes, here, do a little of this. It'll give you energy. And I was like, okay, I didn't know what it was. I was just like, okay. It was just like the pink powder. And I was like, it was in the 90s. And I was like, totally tweaked out. And I didn't like it.

Starting point is 00:11:13 And I was like, I'm not doing that shit again. And that speed. Yeah. I was like... I've never. done speed. Does it just make you feel like you're on Adderall? What is it? No, Adderall, well, I don't like Adderall. Adderall makes me really like, broughamphetamine for me made me feel confident and beautiful and give me energy and creative. Adderall just makes me feel sort of agitated and weirdly energized because

Starting point is 00:11:34 it doesn't have the methyl compound. So like every good drug addict, I know everything. Yeah, I'm so interested in this. I know about everything about drugs and like the science and like, you know. So you liked speed immediately? Yeah. Well, so the second time I did it, I was like, someone offered it to me again. I was hanging out with all these gutter punks and skinheads and like just like slumming it. I thought I was like a Tarantino movie, man, this is cool. It's just like such a fucking poser. And so out of my league. Someone offered it to me again and I did it again and it clicked for me. And I went, oh my God, I feel normal. I had been on psych meds. I'd had a nervous breakdown in 19 and another one at 22 and I'd been on antidepressants. What caused those? What was the, what was the root of the

Starting point is 00:12:13 of the breakdown? Biology, not being set up well for life. I mean, you name it. I just didn't know. Once I got out of college, I just was like, I don't know how to function in the world. And how does that manifest itself? How does a nervous breakdown? I'm sorry, I'm interjecting her, but I just like to get a clear picture. Crying, drinking during the day, not being able to get out of bed, wanting to kill yourself. So yeah, when I found crystal meth, it made me feel like I could be on the planet. I was like, this is what I need to be on the planet. Like, fuck Prozac. Like, this is what I need. And it made me feel normal. And who doesn't want to feel normal? I think that's a big misunderstanding among drug addicts is like, I mean, some people are trying to numb a pain

Starting point is 00:12:55 or get high, but most of us just want to feel normal. And there's, I've dug into the science of this. And a lot of drug addicts, and you're not even supposed to say that. You're supposed to be a substance use disorder. I just can't. Did that become like a new, is that, oh, yeah. I got so much shit when my book came out because people are like, we don't say clean. We don't say dirty. We don't say junkie. I'm like, it's my story. Motherfuckers.

Starting point is 00:13:18 Write your own book. We've had some, we've had some addicts. I don't even know if I'm being politically correct. We've had addicts on the show and we've talked about this. And like, I think like they also say junkie. So maybe we can say. Yeah. I mean, I've never heard someone be like, hi, I'm Dave.

Starting point is 00:13:29 I have substance use disorder. Like no one talks like that. God, we're getting good. God, we're so coddled now. You know, but I also, they think it's going to change the stigma. I disagree with that. I disagree with that. I think the stigma is going to be changed by people coming out. Celebrities coming out with addiction, people seeing people recover.

Starting point is 00:13:48 It's not the addiction and also the biology catching up where people realize it's not a moral issue. It's mostly a biochemical or genetic trauma or issue of trauma. That's, I feel like, just started to happen in the last eight years. Absolutely. People have just started to realize that it's something that you can't control. Yeah. It's a pretty tight community here. I'm sure you know Bob Forrest. Of course I know Bob.

Starting point is 00:14:08 Come back on the show. love Bob for us. I've been on his podcast. I've known Bob for years. He's one of the best human yeah. He doesn't give a shit. No and he's like he's one of the people I was referencing junkie. Like he'll say that. Oh well he's totally like. Calil like all these guys. He's like, well then what if it's substance use disorder then what's orderly use? And I'm like oh my God. Well, I just feel like it's it's really kind of what we do when we're using that that fucks people up. It's like you can say and I wrote an article. Dr. Wetzman, I quoted him and he was just like Dave stole my car and fuck my wife and, you know, blah, blah. And they're like, well, Dave has

Starting point is 00:14:43 substance use disorder. And like that makes it okay. Like, it's our behavior. Like, no one gives a shit. Let's talk about our new sponsor, Butcher Box. Who likes quality meat? And who likes quality meat delivered straight to their door? I know Michael and I do. We are huge, huge fans of Butcher Box. Ever since we started working with them, every single month, Butcher Box has shipped a curated selection of high quality meats right to our home. And this is a big deal because it's almost like they do all the work for you. So all their meat is free of antibiotics and added hormones. Each box has nine to 11 pounds of meat. You guys, that's enough for 24 individual meals. It's packed fresh and it's shipped frozen and vacuum sealed. So it stays that way. What I love about butcher boxes, it's not only better for you,

Starting point is 00:15:36 the meat quality, but it's also better for the environment. It's better for the animal. It's just a better way to consume meat if you're going to, which many of us do. So the ones that Michael and I like are the grass-fed and finished beef. We also are a huge fan of the sugar nitrate-free bacon. We make eggs and bacon like every weekend, sometimes pancakes, and this bacon is legit. And then I also love the wild-caught Alaskan salmon. I always go for wild-caught and they have the best salmon. I'm telling you, put a little lemon, some olive oil, some garlic. It is legit. I'm telling you, you guys, butcher box is the most affordable and convenient way to get healthy, humanely raised. meat. If you're going to be eating meat, butcher box is honestly a no-brainer. Instead of going to the

Starting point is 00:16:14 store and wondering if you're getting the highest quality, know that if you get butcherbox, you are getting the highest quality, best meat possible, ship straight to your door. Right now, Butcherbox is offering new members ground beef for life. That's two pounds of ground beef in every box for the life of their subscription. Just go to butcherbox.com slash skinny. That's butcherbox.com slash skinny. I'm telling you, try that nitrate-free bacon and the wild caught Alaskan salmon. It's so hard, though, like, I feel like with kind of going with the amends, it's hard when the attic makes amends to you. And this is like maybe a question we could ask later in the episode, but I just want to know, are you as the sober, I don't want to say sober person, as the non-addict

Starting point is 00:17:00 supposed to be like, that's fine and move on. No, you can absolutely not accept the amends. I've had people not accept my amends. But what if you do, accept the amends, does that mean you have to just get over it right away? No, absolutely not. Isn't it, it's more about, oh, I thought it meant that you have to get over it right away. Well, tell me if I'm wrong here. I mean, it's, isn't it, it's about the addict being able to move forward and not carry, is that what it is? Yeah, it's mostly for us. It's like, whether you accept or not, like, I've had people not accept my amends and I have to live with that, but we want to clear our, like, the wreckage of our past. So it's like, so you make amends when you're not doing

Starting point is 00:17:33 that behavior anymore. It's not just so, it's like, I've done this. I've done this. I've done this. and da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And also, how can I make it right? Is there any way I can make it right? And if there's a way to make it right or not. And sometimes it's just time. It's a living amends. It's just like, don't fucking get loaded again. Like, don't fuck me up again. You know what I mean? It's like, I've seen friends die. I've seen, we do it for us. And it's hard when people don't accept your amends. I've had people not accept it. And I've had to just like live with that and go, well, I tried. And I'm a different person. And I'm sorry that they can't. You know what I mean? And now that you've been sober for so long, do you think that they would

Starting point is 00:18:06 accept it again? It's, they won't accept it. No. One was, I was seven years and they said they wouldn't even respond. You almost have to look at it like, though, that's hurting them, not you. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm mad at X's. And who's that hurting? It's hurting me. I mean, the other thing that I've realized is a lot of addicts are, you can get tested for this. It's called the mutation in the MTHFR, motherfucker mutation. And you can get tested. And basically what happens is we have a mutation in the, in the gene that creates the enzyme that breaks. that breaks down L-Methyl-Folate and folic acid from like green vegetables into L-Methylate,

Starting point is 00:18:44 which is the building block of dopamine and serotonin. So we're born not having enough dopamine and serotonin. So we're born with this brain that's craving dopamine and serotonin all the time, specifically dopamine. So of course, we want, so then when we find drugs, the problem with drugs is that it shoots your fucking dopamine so fucking high and then you come crashing down. And also when you have so much dopamine, like when you're shooting Coke like I was or smoking meth like I was or whatever, like basically your brain goes, whoa, like way too much dopamine and starts to shut down dopamine receptors and all that kind of stuff. And so you can get tested for it. And of course, I've totally have this mutation, which is like not a surprise because I felt weird before.

Starting point is 00:19:27 That is such a good tip. People need to talk about that. Yeah, I do. I've written about it and you can take a supplement. I take an L-Methyl folate supplement. It hasn't fixed it, but once we can see it on a scan, like an x-ray or whatever, people won't think, be like, she's just a weak person. And it's willpower.

Starting point is 00:19:45 It's like, no one wants to end up a fucking under a bridge shooting dope and losing everything. Nobody. That's like that's not the intention going into it. Yeah, never. And it's like, people are like, well, you knew you were. It's like, I can't describe to you. Like, when you have addiction, when you, it's like a. A vacuum opens up inside of you and you can't stop.

Starting point is 00:20:06 It's really kind of terrifying. And then it happened with me with sex addiction too, which I talk about in the book as a, as a woman. Like, I just, and it happens to me with kind of anything that's addictive. Like, I just quit jeweling. I'm like, smoking related illness is the number one cause of death in people in recovery. And I was like, I didn't get fucking sober to fucking die of like the jewel. Like sorry.

Starting point is 00:20:27 Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah. So I was like, I quit jewling and I fucking, it was the gnarliest. We have some people in recovery. and I noticed that there's like, there is a lot of smoking, a lot of cigarette use. I used to be a smoker when I was younger.

Starting point is 00:20:38 It was like, it's obviously tough. But why you, like there's so many things like no alcohol, no substance, but like smoking is okay. And not to like put anyone in a corner and say it's not,

Starting point is 00:20:46 but like it's, you see a lot of drug addicts or. Because they're fucking still searching for the fucking dopamine. But where they're getting it from, they're getting it from fucking other people. But recovery doesn't say no to smoking? No,

Starting point is 00:20:57 unless you're nicotine anonymous, who wants to go to nicotine anonymous. I had a friend who said, if you fucking relapse on the jewel, I'm going to take you to nicotine anonymous. And I was like, fuck that. You know, I used to make fun of nicotine anonymous. And then I tried to quit fucking vaping and I wanted to blow my head off.

Starting point is 00:21:10 Was there any tip or trick that helped you quit? Or was it just willpower? Again, it wasn't willpower. I put it out there publicly. And I wrote an article about it. And so I felt accountable. And then I also inspired other people to quit. And so then you can't be like.

Starting point is 00:21:30 You're like, fuck. Yeah. So then I was. Like, I got a jewel. Like even yesterday, I was like, fuck this. I got a jewel. And I was like, I can't. I can't.

Starting point is 00:21:38 So it's like you helping other people helped you. Yeah. And I just had made it fucking everyone's like, you can do it. I got a lot of support of people just going, it gets better, it gets better, it gets better. Because the first month you just really want to blow everyone's head off and yourself. You're just like, holy fuck. Your brain's all fucked up. I was doing four jewel pods a day.

Starting point is 00:21:57 That's like 80 cigarettes. It's a shitload, yeah. Yeah. And so I was having chest pains. And I was like, what am I? fucking doing. And then I was like getting the empty cartridges out of the fucking garbage and being like, one last hit. And I was like, wow, is this familiar? Like, really? Like how embarrassing? Like I was like, it's over, bitch. It's over. You put a beat up your nose. No more beats. You fucked up. You have a kid. You know, I just was like, it's over, done. It's done. It is over. So going, okay, so going back. Yeah, I want to go back to her story. So, okay. So you, you, you, you, you, you try speed for the second time. Sorry. And it clicks. And it clicks. And then I'm using every day. But I think I'm experimenting. And just speed? Or you're doing like whatever comes from? Yeah, no, I'm drinking a little bit, but that's it.

Starting point is 00:22:34 It's mostly speed. Mostly speed. Because if you're a tweaker, like, you don't fuck up your fucking, like, your meth high with anything else. And how long do these, like, vendors last? Like, is it like, days? Days. Okay.

Starting point is 00:22:43 The longest I ever stayed up with 17 days. Holy shit. Oh my God. No sleep, not even like doze and awful. How did you do that? It's in the book. And I wrote a new Bible based on Emerson. Wait, 17 days.

Starting point is 00:22:54 I don't remember you saying that. I wrote a new Bible based on Emerson and Nietzsche. And I thought I had the mathematical equation for God. So I was like on the. edge of like a psychotic break. And now I have epilepsy. I don't remember that part in the book, but you have it from the 17 days? I have it from Crystal Matthews. There's no epilepsy in my family. I developed it in my 30s. I didn't have a head injury. And the guy was like, I was in France living Paris. And he was like, they started doing a bunch of tests. I started having grandma seizures out of

Starting point is 00:23:23 the blue. It was like five years clean at the time because I've had time before and then relapsed. And they said, he goes, did you do a lot of drugs? And I was like, well, what do you mean? He's like, you do a little of cocaine? And I was like, oh. I mean, fucking meth is made with like gun bluing and draino. It's really gnarly. Shit.

Starting point is 00:23:41 It's super bad for your brain. And so there are other people who have developed epilepsy. And so he goes, yes, this is a, from that, I have hyperactive lesions now in my frontal loath. And I've been on medication for 15 years. But I've cracked my head open. I've lost my license twice. I've had maybe, I don't know, 12 grandmall seizures or broken teeth. I had one outside swingers.

Starting point is 00:24:00 That was a good time. Just like on the phone with my now ex-husband and just face planted. I don't have an aura or anything. Oh, shit. Okay, so you get addicted to speed and then do you stay in San Francisco? No, my parents drag me back. I get an infection in my face and I call my parents from a hotel and I'm living in like lower hate, which is. Why do those infections?

Starting point is 00:24:20 Because I've always wondered this. Like, what does it come from? Because it's dirty. That shit is like cut with so much dirty shit. And I got an infection and I called my parents and I was like, I have an infection. in my face, in my nose, and my whole, and they'd given me moxicillin. I found out I was larger to moxysilin. So it was just like elephant man shit. And they came up and they took me in the doctor and the doctor looked up my nose and he goes, what are you putting up your nose? He knew.

Starting point is 00:24:47 Yeah, yeah. And I said, Afrin and spade occasionally. And he goes, yeah, this is from that. And if you do it again, it'll happen again. And my dad flipped out and he didn't know I was using I hadn't told them. And you don't expect your kid to become a hardcore drug addict in their 20s. You think that's, that period's over. So they dragged me back to L.A. And then I just navigated the fucking speed scene here. And then...

Starting point is 00:25:11 The speed scene here. Well, this was years ago. I mean... But what was it like years ago? Hold up because I have to tell you what I'm wearing at this current moment. I am wearing Beta Brand's dress pant yoga pant. I have talked about these pants forever, but they're so, so. relevant right now because we're all on Zoom and in Skype and we want to look cute, but we also want to

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Starting point is 00:27:03 You're going to go to betabrand.com slash skinny for 25% off. Enjoy. It's gross. It's fucking gnarly. I mean, it was skater punks and fucking, like, it was like, like, guys on Hollywood Boulevard were homeless. It was, like, all criminals. It was like, it was a lot of Mexican gang members. Like, I was super out of my league.

Starting point is 00:27:31 It wasn't. It's not like the cocaine crowd. Like in the in the in the in the in the in the fucking 90s the meth crowd here is if unless you're a gay man, that's a different thing. If you're like a gay man like that's very popular among among gay men. But that's a whole different scene. The straight meth scene is gnarly. What do you mean? It's just like what do you think the reason for that is because is it because is it because is it because maybe the people that are inclined to take that or a different type of like what like what? Like, what do you think separates the coat crowd from the meth crowd?

Starting point is 00:28:03 Is it just pricing? Yeah, partly. And I think that if your meth is like, you're considered bottom of the barrel. Like if you, in the hierarchy, if you're an Ivy drug user, you're bottom of the barrel. And if you're a meth head, you're bottom of the barrel. Like, everyone looks down on you. And I'm both. That's so interesting, though, that there's like a hierarchy of-

Starting point is 00:28:21 It's a different crowd. It's just a different crowd. It's more, you go dumpster diving. It's not like you doing like champagne and lines at the fucking sky bar. or wherever it's cool now with that catch or whatever the fuck, you know. So I walked into a market. I mean, I was hanging out with like Mexican drug cartel guys. And I didn't even know.

Starting point is 00:28:42 And they were like, hey, you know anyone who wants to buy this? I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And he goes, oh, it's a gun silencer. And I was like, I'm so fucking out of my league. What did they want to do? They wanted me to know if I knew anyone who wanted to buy it. Yeah. I was like, I don't know people who have guns.

Starting point is 00:29:00 You're like, I'm here to do drugs. Yeah, I mean, so I walked into a market and I woke up in an ambulance and I'd had a seizure. It was the first seizure I ever had. And I went in a rehab, first of seven rehabs. And who, and what was the decision behind putting you in rehab? Was it you making that decision or somebody? Oh, my parents had been pushing forever. And how old were you at this time?

Starting point is 00:29:20 24. 24. Okay, you're still young. So then I went in a rehab and I got out and I stayed clean and I tried to drink at about a year. And I was in a blackout for three weeks. And I was like, okay, I can't drink either. I was like, okay. So talk me through what it's like telling yourself in your head you can drink.

Starting point is 00:29:39 So you get out of rehab. Do you start to think, I could have a glass of champagne? I could have a glass of wine. Yeah, because you're like, I'm a drug addict. I'm not an alcoholic. I really thought it would be different. I thought it would be okay. And I didn't realize there's a spectrum of addiction.

Starting point is 00:29:52 You know what I mean? Some people, and I know some people, because I have a podcast too about that I talk about addiction. And I'm sorry, it's called confidential also. Why I didn't come up with it. It's called. It's called rehab confidential. I love it. I love it.

Starting point is 00:30:01 Also, like the stuff no one talks about. I love it. There's a spectrum of addiction, and there are people who can do opioids and then fucking get clean and fucking drink and do pot. And no one,

Starting point is 00:30:11 people in AA fucking go bananas when you say that because absence is the holy grail. I can't do that. I've tried it all. I've tried opioids. I've tried smoking pot. I can't even fucking vape. Like, I can't fuck people without like,

Starting point is 00:30:24 you know, if they don't call me, I'm like fucking losing my shit. Like, everything is addictive. to me. So I'm way the fuck over here in terms of the spectrum. But I think that the idea that one size fits all in terms of recovery is just not true. So what's the other end of the spectrum? If this is like so addictive, what's the other end? Not addictive? Addictive to some stuff. Like I have a friend and she can't drink, but she can do smoke, she can smoke pot. She can do coke occasionally. And just when she drinks, she goes bananas. But she can do other shit once a year, no big deal.

Starting point is 00:30:57 So you start drinking again. You black out for three weeks. You honestly don't remember the three weeks. No, I remember bits of it. I want to, this is going to be like a curve. We're going to get it. But I want to talk about sex addiction because there, I think you see. What do you want to know?

Starting point is 00:31:09 I want to know everything. I think you. Careful. Taylor's going to pop a boner. I want to know everything. Well, because I think you see a lot of people like in the tabloids and they get in trouble and they're like, oh shit, oh shit. I'm a sex addict.

Starting point is 00:31:19 And I want to know like what real sex addiction is compared to like people that are just saying it to maybe get out of trouble. I think it's a nice PR. move to get out of like if you're... Like you got caught cheating. Yeah, of course. That's not... I mean, it could be, but I think it's a nice, like, out. When you're a millionaire, a billionaire athlete with girls throwing themselves at you.

Starting point is 00:31:42 Like, oh, shit, got caught. Yeah, and you're fucking traveling all over and you fuck some people. And then you're like, I'm in for sex addiction. It's like, sex addiction for me is just like drug addiction. It's used despite negative consequences. It's lack of choice. So it was like, I don't want to do this. why am I doing this and okay I'm never going to do this again here I am doing this again like almost

Starting point is 00:32:02 outside your body watching yourself do it my sex addiction began when I was going through my criminal trial and my divorce and I had nothing I'd lost everything just penniless at 42 years old what was the criminal trial for um not criminal trial yeah I tried to stab my ex oh yeah yeah he touched on that okay and why he just like you were in an it was it was it wasn't a good marriage and it got physical and I pulled a knife on him I was high on oxy and for Loco because I'm classy like that. And I pulled a knife and I was like, I'll gut you like a fish, you fat motherfucker. And he called the cops on me and I got arrested for felony domestic violence.

Starting point is 00:32:36 And that's how the book starts. Correct. Yeah. I was like, I'm going to grab these bitches by the throat. You grabbed me right by the throat. I think it was like, I was born on a Monday and I was like, oh shit. She was a whole night reading it. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:32:49 I would wake up at like three in the morning. Do not give her any ideas about gutting me like a fish. I need to preserve myself. I'm like, oh, shit. Okay, so I went to jail. Eventually, that whole marriage, he, I had a nervous breakdown again, because that seems to be one of my favorite things to do. No joke. It's, you know, I lost everything. I lost my everything. And I was also had a felony charge. And I'm like a nice Jewish girl. I'm like, what the fuck? I have a violent felony too. Like your background doesn't match up with what the

Starting point is 00:33:18 store. Not at all. My parents are like, what the fuck is happening now? Your dad must have been beside himself. They were not happy. They were just like, what's going on? And so I go through a divorce and all of that shit. It got strapped to a misdemeanor. I'm given a year of domestic violence counseling and 2004 hours of community labor while I'm in treatment. So, and I'm left, he pays my health insurance and gives me no money at all. So I'm 42 and I'm on Medi-Cal disability. And that's a big part of the book, too, is like getting to live, having had money and then having no money.

Starting point is 00:33:50 And you talk about in the book how you were doing community service and cleaning the streets. and cleaning leaves up off the streets with huge criminals. And you just talked about, you sort of, it's, you made me feel like you were very humbled by that experience. Well, I showed up when I was like, I mean, I was like, oh my God. I was like, oh, my God, these are criminals. Like, what am I doing here? I get my hair colored at Sy Hersberger.

Starting point is 00:34:13 Like, you know what I mean? Like still totally entitled, completely in denial, whatever. And it's like 40 fucking Hispanic guys in hoodies and me. And I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? And this one guy was like, he came up to me. And he's like, what, you're here for what, huh? And I was like, I'm here for felony domestic violence with a deadly weapon. They're like, oh, shit, you know, I was the only one.

Starting point is 00:34:37 I had more time than anyone else. I had the worst. I was one of the few violent offenders. And I was like, I'm the fucking criminal. Like, these guys had DUIs. It was like nothing. So sweeping the streets was like, in a clean team uniform was just like, fucking mind blowing.

Starting point is 00:34:56 I remember having a moment. First of all, no one would talk to us because we're criminals. We had a tan dickies as a clean team. We had a fucking broom. And everyone ignored us, except for like drunk, almost people who were like,

Starting point is 00:35:08 Good morning. I know it sucks, but it beats the pen. And we're like, oh, thank you. You know what I mean? Like, just anyone to pay attention to us. And other people with like,

Starting point is 00:35:16 dumbasses are like, I love the environmentalism you're doing. Like, how do I become part of that? Oh, Jesus. Only in LA. And I was like, right. Yeah. And I was like,

Starting point is 00:35:23 oh, it's really easy. actually. Just go stab your husband. Yeah, right? It's not that hard to be part of the crew if you want to be part of the beautification team. And I remember just Iranian as someone I knew in AA. Broke anonymity, oh my God, because

Starting point is 00:35:39 A is a secret society. It's skull and bones. Fuck it. You know what? I'm in AA. Like, hi. And I also support harm reduction. And I also, like, I'm so over, I don't think it's, I think it's harming the sobriety community. I think we all need to come together and come out of the fucking closet. Yeah, I mean. Interesting because it's like, the whole thing with AAS secrets make you sick.

Starting point is 00:35:59 Right. Let me tell you guys about one of the easiest things you can do in the most responsible way to make sure that you are going to live a long, prosperous, healthy life or at least do whatever you can to try and live a long, healthy, prosperous life. It's one of the easiest things we've done. And that is sign up for ancestry health and bring them on as a partner of this show. Lauren, take it away. Let the people know how easy this is.

Starting point is 00:36:23 Okay. So what we did is we got our kits in the mail. you get two boxes, one for me, one for Michael, and then you take out this little tiny tube and you spit in it and you spit to a line. And then after you spit in it, you seal it up. It has like a seal. And then you put it back in your box and you send it to ancestry health. And then they have the most advanced genetic testing technology. And then you get your results back and you can learn if you're lower or higher risk for some commonly inherited conditions linked to breast cancer, colon cancer, and heart disease. Ancestry health does this all. It lets you understand what those risks are. And if they're passed down from one generation to the next, I just feel like preventative care is in. So obviously we have some really solid pathways to understand what we're at risk for. And that is our ancestors, our parents, the people that came before us. Many of us, though, aren't privy to what our ancestors and our parents' health conditions were and what they had.

Starting point is 00:37:16 So we go through life in the dark, not knowing what to look for. With ancestry health, it does all that work for you. It lets you know what you're predisposed to, what you're at risk for, what you potentially need to watch for, which obviously helps you take better care of yourself and your children. We've had a lot of experts on here talking about breast cancer and women. So I think especially if you're a woman, that this is a very important test to take. Smarter health decisions start with ancestry health. Find out what your DNA says about genetic risk with ancestry health.

Starting point is 00:37:44 Head to our URL at ancestry.com slash skinny to get your ancestry help kit today. That's ancestry.com slash skinny. It's so easy, guys. It takes a couple of seconds, and you just get all the information to be preventative about your health. With that, let's get back to Amy. Huh. Well, part of the thing is they think that when AAA started it, they didn't have the manpower to handle all of the inquiries. So that was one of the reasons to remain anonymous at press radio and film.

Starting point is 00:38:19 Secondly, another thing is that if you say you're an AA and then you relapse, it makes it look like AAA doesn't work. And my thing is, A.A. doesn't work for everybody. And relapse is part of recovery for a lot of people. And if you, my dad, my dad is just in remission from cancer. So if you know someone who has cancer and they go through chemotherapy and they still die, do you think that chemotherapy doesn't work? No, you fucking don't. You think it just didn't work in that case. So I think it's crazy to not talk about it. I don't know how it can be a thing of attraction when no one knows you're fucking in it. So I just, I think it's outdated. Well, and I think then other people that are maybe outside of it don't know how to deal with people that are. So I think conversations like this are helpful. And we've had a bunch of people on this show because I think there's people that are in recovery. And then there's people that are outside of it and family members or friends love. And a lot of people don't know how to deal with someone in recovery. And it's because they don't have the information.

Starting point is 00:39:14 They're not part of it. They're like, okay, what the fuck do I do? Well, I can go to Allen on. But I mean, I just also just think like, you know. But that's after you get involved in the problem. But like if you're just an everyday person, you have a friend going through something. You're like, like, like you said, hey, you're weak minded to get it together. You may not understand all of the chemical balances or all the other issues.

Starting point is 00:39:27 Yeah. I mean, I just, I don't know. I'm just not, I've always been open about everything and I got shit for that too. I got a lot of Greek for. But you need people like you speaking out to make change. Well, also someone was like, wow, you seem cool and you're in AA. Maybe I'll check it out. Maybe it's not some weird Christian cult.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Okay, like you're a Jew. Like, let's, let me check it out. Like, I don't also, I think you can take what works for you and leave the rest. I'm not a hardcore person about that. Like I said, if you takes a box in and that works for you, fucking awesome. If you, you know what I mean? I'm down with whatever. If you get fucking sober doing yoga with llamas, like, yay.

Starting point is 00:40:05 Like, who gives us shit? We're all trying to go to the same place. Kristen Johnson from 30 Rock. Oh, yeah. She was just on our podcast. She and I are like the same person. I know. Okay.

Starting point is 00:40:15 I just read her book too. I like, can you tell I have like a thing with. Yeah, I can. Fucking hi. I'm addicted to reading addiction memoir. There are worse things. But she says in her book, she says someone told her if pushing a peanut up a hill with your nose keeps you sober, then you push a peanut up the hill. Like she says that you have to do whatever works for you.

Starting point is 00:40:37 And sometimes it's not AA. I thought that was cool. It's like what you just said. It's not one shoe fits all. Well, yeah. I mean, I think there are people who are like, it's AA or like you're not really sober. And it's like, really? Does AAA own recovery?

Starting point is 00:40:50 Like, A work for me. But I'm also involved in other things that aren't AA-based and I support all kind of stuff. And there's stuff about AA I don't like. So when you were in AA, you were struggling with sex addiction, right? Like when you were actually working the program. Yeah. So how does that work? So to clarify, like, does sex addiction, like, so you're addicted for drugs, but then it, like, does it like, does the addiction move from one thing in your case?

Starting point is 00:41:18 But it's not, everyone's like, it's cross-addiction. It's not cross-addiction. It's addiction. It just transfers to whatever the neck view. No, it's not a transfer. It's you've taken away your drug of choice and your brain is going, I want dopamine. So where do we get dopamine? Attention, sex, sugar, nicotine, shopping, gambling.

Starting point is 00:41:38 It's not cross addiction. In my mind, it's all addiction. It's all the same fucking thing. And we're just, we just closed off that avenue. And so my brain's like, well, where else can we get dopamine? So then I was just like, I was like 42 going on on Tinder and it was just like fucking shooting fish in a barrel was gnarly and it was just too easy I was living and sober living and I just had to get the fuck out

Starting point is 00:42:03 of my body I just could I was in so much pain I was so scared about the future I was smoking and vaping and wearing a fucking nicotine patch I'd smack it and then fucking I mean I was just such a lunatic and I wanted validation I wanted to know I was still lovable I was still hot I was still this. I was still that. And I also wanted to get the fuck out of my body. And so I started having, sleeping with people that I met online. And it was always like one night stands.

Starting point is 00:42:35 I had some that were kind of my friends. And I talk about it in the book. And I always would cry at leaving. And like, so you didn't, it's not like you fell in love with one or two people. It's like you were just. Well, I would get attached. Well, I'm a woman. So if someone puts their fucking dick in me, I'm going to become attached to you.

Starting point is 00:42:49 Even if I don't even like you, my body is like, yay, we like this. person, they're inside our body, like for me. That's my experience. I bond to people. So then I would like be bonded to this person and I didn't want to be bonded to that person because they didn't want anything to accept to fuck me. So then I would fuck someone else to break that bond. And then I have to fuck someone else to break that bond. And it was this horrible change. Yeah, that's a problem. You're very self-aware. Yeah, that's what. That's what I think the difference of your memoir is. That's what, that's what, but that's made it harder. That made it harder because I knew exactly what the fuck I was doing and I couldn't stop myself. But that's a distinguished, I mean, listen,

Starting point is 00:43:24 not to be sexist, but that is like, I mean, we have this him and her aspect. I have young sisters now, I have a daughter. And like, it is true as a man. Like, you can put your dick in something and actually not be attached to it at all. Like, it is, it's not a mean thing. It's just a biological thing. Of course. We can, we evolve to me. And like, you can do that without an emotional connection. And not to say that women can't do that. Some women can. Some can. But I do think that. I don't think most, I think we're wired because we're. We're. We're. We're. We can get pregnant and we have to have a baby. And so it's like we need a provider who's going to show up.

Starting point is 00:43:54 That's just the evolutionary shit. And some people like they're sex positive and feminist. And it's like if you could fuck people and not have them call you again and not give a shit, power to you. I can't do that. If I don't, if they don't text me, I cry. Yeah, it's fucked up. I think about like my relationships before Lauren. I'm like, you know.

Starting point is 00:44:10 Your relationships. Is that what you call them? But it's like, but your relationship. You mean you stuck your dick in someone? But I think about it and I feel bad sometimes because I would. went into it with the mindset of like, this is just fun. Do you feel bad? No, no, I actually do because I'm like there was no.

Starting point is 00:44:25 That's not self-aware. No, no, I do actually in some cases. There's like no emotional connection with a lot of my previous relations. But I mean, Lauren and I've been together for so long. But there was with Lauren. But I think like that's, it's not necessarily like I was trying to be unfair. It's just like there wasn't the emotional connection. It was just I was having fun.

Starting point is 00:44:40 And I think a lot of men do that. And like when I talk to women, I'm like, you got to understand. Like it's just a like sometimes we don't. But that's why for women you've got like now. Like I've been celebrated for three years. I mean. By choice or? Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:44:52 See, I haven't read that part because I haven't read the next book. So I'm waiting for this thing. I'm waiting patiently. I need a new book. Well, I need a donor. So why don't you sponsor it? Like, I need to get off my ass and do it. I mean, a lot happened.

Starting point is 00:45:04 So I basically, what happened after the first book, there was the happy ending. Well, that person's gone. That person left and broke my heart. And so I love that happy ending too. I know. Everyone did. And everyone. And so everyone who reads a book is like, I love it and I love, are you still with dad?

Starting point is 00:45:23 And I'm like, oh, my fucking heart just like. So I really got my heart broken. I was really open and I really got my heart broken. And I kind of just, you know, shut down. Also, my father got cancer. Also my mother broke her hip and got dementia and had a heart attack and a pulmonary embolism and ended up in a home. But look what you've stayed sober for. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:44 That's pretty. That's pretty. That's marly. But my whole life fucking fell apart. Like literally. like I thought I was going to like have a Tesla and a mansion and I was going to be and like people put me on a pedestal but like literally I'm like eating chili out of a can like fucking in my like one bedroom with Colonel Puff Puff my cat and people are like you're such an inspiration. I'm like am I really bitch like I think you are and I think that maybe all of this is happening to you for a reason to help more people with your next book. Well someone said to me they just said I gotta know about like being sober in your 40s and I was like that's the next book. There's a huge developmental delay. I spent 25 years. in rehabs and fucking psych wards and people taking care of me. My parents taking care of me and then my ex-husband taking care of me.

Starting point is 00:46:26 And then all of a sudden I'm dropped on my ass in my 40s with nothing and I don't know how to do taxes. And I don't know when you put an oil, you put oil in a car. And I don't know how to be self-sufficient and I don't know how to do a budget and I can't cook except dope. Like you know what I mean? Like I don't know how to fucking do anything. Like I showed up at Jiffy Loop. They're like, hey, so when was last time you put oil in this car? I was like, seven years ago?

Starting point is 00:46:50 They were like, oh my God. I'm like, but I can make a crack pipe, crack bong out of a mountain dew bottle with straw and gum. And they were like, please just sit in a living. Please just sit and waiting. Let me make you feel better a little bit. I guarantee my wife has no idea what you're talking about with oil in the car. The whole time you're talking, I'm like, I don't really know how to budget. No, I don't know any of that shit either.

Starting point is 00:47:12 And it's like, I mean, my friend tell me with taxes, but it's like, it's a weird thing where I'm 50 now, 50. You do not look 50. Thank you. You do not look 50. Thank you. That's gnarly. You do not look 50 at all. I know. That's a fucking gift. That's like my pact with the devil. The devil's like, I'm going to give you epilepsy and you're going to keep your teeth, but I won't. Oh, your hair looks great. I'm weirdly well preserved. You look great. What is the difference between a psych ward and rehab? Are you serious? Yeah, I'm serious. Because you, how are we supposed to know? I've never been to either. Yeah, a rehab is a rehab center where you check in voluntarily for drug problems or dual diagnosis. Like you're bipolar and you're like shooting crack because you can't shoot crack. Like or whatever.

Starting point is 00:47:59 Psych Ward is a psychiatric hospital where you're usually put against your will held on a 72 hour hold against your will with people who think they're Thomas Jefferson or the fucking moon is controlling their fucking dick. Is there anyone though that that doesn't think like that that's like more normal that's. there against the will. Yes. Yes. So it's not every. We read it in the book. I mean, there were some people that were there. One girl was in there just to change meds. And there was another girl who they thought they had to try to kill herself and she hadn't really. But there's also a lot of people who are really very, very mentally ill. And I think it's odd that you take someone who's depressed or tries to kill themselves and put them in the psych board because the psych word's fucking depressing. It's so depressing. What would be the alternative? Like for people that

Starting point is 00:48:45 don't know like okay someone tries to do that like where do you put those people you have to you have to put them i mean if someone tries to kill themselves you have to sort of commit them because to protect themselves from from themselves you know what i mean i mean it's just but it doesn't necessarily like i don't think it's yeah but it's not it's not it's you get out you're 72 hours and you get the fuck out and then you can kill yourself and then you're like shit i was just in a psych ward and that was even more depressing and i mean yeah and then you're you know and people are totally freaked out and it's like, I mean, everyone who's in meetings and in 12-stop meetings has all been in the fucking psych ward. That's what I love about that community. It's like, no judgment.

Starting point is 00:49:21 It doesn't. No, I mean, yeah, you're like, they're at a restraining order. They're like, me too. You know what I mean? Like, I shot coke in my neck. They're like, me too. Like, it's like all, uh, everyone gets it. We're in the real world. People are like, ew. Why do you, why do people start like, so when you get into addiction, like, why is, why do you start finding different body parts of shooting? Is it? Because you just like exhaust the. Yeah, you blow out the vein. So you just have to find any vein that we're still received. Yeah, you blow out the vein.

Starting point is 00:49:46 Did you have the epiphany that you were a sex addict in the book? You talk about this horrific, transparent scene where you're talking to your sponsor. That was such a hard scene, right? I can't even tell you. I think that's why I've never been fucking. Well, the people that are interested in me are not some people I'm interested. Also, I just, I really think that coming out as a female sex addict, a female intravenous drug addict, Someone who's been in the psych ward.

Starting point is 00:50:13 But also grew up in Beverly Hills and looks the way you look. So it's like... I'm also a lot. I'm a big personality. I'm strong. I have a lot of masculine. It's going to take someone who's got a lot of fucking... And I think I'm low maintenance and I'm high maintenance.

Starting point is 00:50:26 That's what another ex-boyfriend. Well, you guys have a lot in common. Is the sponsor, though, the place where you thought, okay, this is a problem? Like, is that where you had an epiphany? No, I had. I knew. You knew. Oh, God.

Starting point is 00:50:37 Yeah. But for some reason, in the book, that was a turn in that scene. Like you turned a corner. That scene was so hard to write. I just was like, and I remember right before the book came out, this is their talk, they're talking about where I hit my bottom and my sex addiction. And it's a very, very, very, very graphic, mortifying scene. And I just was like, I don't want to fucking write this.

Starting point is 00:50:56 And I just thought there is somebody out there who will identify and go, fuck me. I felt the same way. I've been in the same situation. I did something I didn't want to do sexually. And I felt ashamed of it. Like, I'm like just. There's a lot of people. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:09 Everyone can identify with that. the feelings of just like, oh, I just did something I didn't want to do and I feel gross. Like, why didn't I say no? What? Because they'd be mad at me? Like, everyone's been there. I already knew and I just, I didn't go, I went to Slaw. I went to Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. I went to SAA and it just didn't really click for me. And so again, it's the same steps. And so I also think that for that point, it was sort of a coping mechanism that I needed. And then I fell in love. So then I got into my love addiction. And then he left. And then I was kind of like left with nothing. And so. thing. So then I'm looking at that stuff now. I'm working with a relationship coach in Paris. And

Starting point is 00:51:47 it's really painful shit. Sex addiction and love addiction comes from childhood trauma. It comes from it's much more painful for me than my drug addiction was. It's am I lovable? If there's something wrong with me, are you going to leave a fear of abandonment, you know, emotionally unavailable parent like it goes to childhood stuff. So it's super, super, painful stuff. But I know that if I don't deal with it, I'm not going to move forward. Like, I want to get married again. Like, I want to be in a relationship again, you know. Do you have any friends? Yeah. Come on, man. Yeah. Are you friends? You do? Yeah, let me think. I think also being 50 is weird. Like I went on hinge and it's like, I got mostly

Starting point is 00:52:29 older friends. Oh, good. Yeah. Well, don't go too old. Yeah. No, but I mean, like, like, like a nice, like 40, 45-year-old guy. That would be great. Yeah, you don't want, like, you don't want some old bat. You want me. Well, I'm also, like, weirdly immature. Hi. Yeah. So what is it like to be in rehab and have relationships in rehab? Do they allow that?

Starting point is 00:52:49 No. They don't. You totally can get kicked out for that. No, don't you remember the scene where I got pulled outside for making out with that young 24-year-old kid and I got grabbed by my hoodie and dragged outside? And he's like, are you a fucking predator? And I was like, I think they call it Cougar. And I lost my fucking phone privilege.

Starting point is 00:53:06 And the other time when I snuck out over the gate to meet that. British comic. Yes. And he was totally coaked out. I think that's someone that people know too. But you can't say, I know. No. It's not who you think.

Starting point is 00:53:18 Oh. He's been super a billion, zillion years. Okay. I thought it was someone that I was like Googling British comic. I have done speaking gigs with who you think, the famous one. But that wasn't who this person was. He's tall.

Starting point is 00:53:29 This guy was short. Remember? He got out and I was like, he's kind of short. I don't remember the short part. I was Googling British comic. No, he showed up. Well, I'll tell you after who everyone is, if you want to. know, like, who all the famous sweaty movies.

Starting point is 00:53:41 You have some famous people in the book. I know. I was trying to Google who it was. When you read a book like that, do people, do people know you're doing it? They're people from like, that are the best people. Are they like, oh, shit, like, they reached out like, hey, don't put me in that fucking book. I had to get, okay, it's from certain people.

Starting point is 00:53:57 Certain people we just, I went. This book was thoroughly legally vetted. So we had to change, like, like the night of the incident, there's much more to it than that. I had to pull out a lot of stuff to protect. me and the publisher from lawsuits. And then, like, also with certain people, we disguised their identity so that we wouldn't get sued. And other people had to send them the part of the book about them and be like, are you okay with this? But if it's anonymous, why, like, why does it

Starting point is 00:54:25 matter? But you know what's interesting now? It doesn't know. Because it's not, what do you mean? Because I just changed their name. It was exactly who they fucking were. Oh, that's crazy. he's gone now. And this, in moving 2020 and beyond, like, if you do something, like, it's going to come out. Like, it's not the days of the past. Like, it's out there. People need to know about it. But that's why it's so cool that you own. You know, people Google my age,

Starting point is 00:54:46 who my ex is, who my dad is, what my net worth is. My net worth is supposed to be $1.5 million. Turn my fair junkie into a movie or a TV show. It's already a pilot and we're shopping it right now. See, okay. Well, don't laugh too hard. I know.

Starting point is 00:55:04 So next time you guys will have to be like, I'll be like, I'll be like, the skinny confidential is coming. I'm like, they're like, this is Stacy, Amy's assistant. I'm sorry. She doesn't have any availability. She's shooting her. Yeah, you, I can totally see this. Oh my God, it would be the best.

Starting point is 00:55:19 It'd be so fucking funny. It's a great name. There's, there's scenes in there that are just, you're like, did this, is this real? Yeah, I thought half the book I was like, there's no way. Because you read so many memoirs and you feel like they're not being 100% honest. you can feel it as the reader. Really? Yes, which is why scar tissue,

Starting point is 00:55:36 I felt like he was pretty honest. Like, it was, it was real. I hear it's pretty fucking good. It's good. It's good. And you could tell that he was very involved in every single page. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:55:47 Well, I wrote that thing by myself. I was involved. I wrote it. Involved in every page. Like, I fucking wrote it. I don't know if he wrote his. I mean, like, he wrote it with someone.

Starting point is 00:55:57 That's fine. Hey, I can't fucking sing or play a guitar. Yeah, that's true. Everyone thinks being a right, like writing a book is easy. It's not fucking easy at all. That's why you're like, rank to thank him one. And I'm like, I know, I know. No, I need to.

Starting point is 00:56:09 It's been three years. Everyone wants it. And everyone wants to know what that fuck happened. And everything, like a whole, like the universe was like, oh, you don't like responsibility? You don't want to grow up, honey? Here, I'm power of attorney over my mom. Both my parents get ill. The love of my life leaves me.

Starting point is 00:56:26 Like, a fucking whole new level of reality. Yeah, but I also think. that you have to really give yourself credit for dealing with it sober. But does that, yeah, does that level of responsibility? Does that entice you to potentially, and I don't like trigger anything to use?

Starting point is 00:56:40 Or does that be like, okay, no, I don't, totally. Or it doesn't like motivate you like, okay, I got responsibilities,

Starting point is 00:56:44 you got to take care of it. Just give you like more of a purpose or I guess it's going to be good. It's both. Yeah. I want to escape and but it's like, what am I going to fucking really shoot Coke at 50? Like really? A lot of people are like,

Starting point is 00:56:55 you're not an inspiration. And it's like, I don't, I can't let these people down. Like, I gave them hope that they could fucking get it after years and years of trying. And it's like, I can't let them down. It would kill my dad.

Starting point is 00:57:06 That's why I think having it not be anonymous is a good thing because it holds you accountable to other people that you're helping. That didn't stop fucking DJAM. Yeah. It was way too much pressure and the guy ended up fucking overdosing and dying. That's the other thing. It's so much pressure. You're like on this pedestal and it's like, hey, me, like people go, when I write them back

Starting point is 00:57:25 and I just go, oh, I'm so glad you enjoyed the book. Thank you, man. And they go, oh my God, you wrote me back. They'd like fan girl out. And like, I'm like, I'm just a next junkie that wrote a book. No, you're a success story. It's inspirational for them. I know, but I'm just a fucking junkie that wrote a book.

Starting point is 00:57:40 I don't, they're like, you're the nicest celebrity ever. I'm like, bitch, I'm not a celebrity. All my friends are like, they think you're an asshole. Like. So it's weird. It's both. The responsibility, again, they took care of me for years, right? How many reacts did they fucking put me in?

Starting point is 00:57:57 How many times my mom fucking fly to fucking London when I slipped my wrist with a box cutter after drank a bottle of wine? Yeah, I mean, I owe them. When you did that, did you actually feel like you wanted to die in that moment? Yeah. That one I would say yes. I mean, I was having a nerve's breakdown. Who wants to date me? Don't let anyone listen to this fucking episode.

Starting point is 00:58:22 Don't let anyone who's going to date me listen to this fucking. I got my shit together now. Don't send this as the tape to be like, hey, I got this amazing. I got this girl. I want you to check out. You're like, she has a really good body, though. Don't take it from me. Take it from her.

Starting point is 00:58:37 I, yeah, I was, I had gotten off Prozac, and I had been brought in my heartbroken again. And I was living in London. And that weather alone will make you want to fucking slit your fucking throat high, right? I told you that. I took it there for Christmas. It's not. I was, I couldn't get it. London's cool as fuck, but the weather.

Starting point is 00:58:55 Oh, see. Yeah. If you're, if you have anxiety or depression. It's so gnarly. Yeah, you're just like, yeah. I couldn't even open my eyes. Look how beautiful the Christmas lights are. She's like, well, I can't get out of bed until full appearance. I know. So I basically, I got off Prozac because I thought that was keeping me from having an orgasm, which just was totally not the case.

Starting point is 00:59:14 Prozac supposed to keep you from having an orgasm? Well, it can. For a lot of people, they don't like antidepressants because it keeps them from coming. Oh, I didn't know that. I learned something new every day. Okay, so go on. But I'm, that, that, well. That's not true. No. Okay. It was inside of me. it was someone also I needed someone who like knew what the fuck they were doing. Oh, got it, got it. You needed to feel safe. I mean, I needed to feel safe. Like a girl needs to feel comfortable too. I mean, so. That's another thing. See, because guys don't need to feel like they

Starting point is 00:59:43 Yeah, you. Yeah, they'll just fucking fuck you and like leave. And it's like, I mean, I understand that men have that, but it's like, that's why now I'm like, I need to go slow. Like I tell someone they're like, well, I go to fucking, they're like, hey, good morning. I woke up thinking about you. I'm like, oh, that's so nice. They're like, no, I woke up thinking about you. I'm like, and then they, I'm like, oh. Yeah, we're fucking creeps. Yeah, I'm like, gross, dude. Like, you know.

Starting point is 01:00:03 And when you guys send a penis picture, it's like, oh. Oh, my God. I have a lesbian friend, and she uses my talking pet to make it into a talking penis picture. That's amazing. And then, yeah. I thought, like a cowboy hat on it and stuff. It's the fucking funniest thing. That's amazing.

Starting point is 01:00:19 It's like, hey, you hungry, you like Wendy's. You're going to like Wendy's nuts drag across your face. And I'm just. And I literally. cry. I want to... I want to... I want to...

Starting point is 01:00:31 I want to... I want someone to send me a dick pick and I want her to have it, like, like make it talk and put a mustache on it and send it back to the person.

Starting point is 01:00:38 See, I never send the dick pick ever. I've never done it because I... No, he doesn't send the dick. There's no way to make that look at. I don't like... There's no angle. No, we don't like want to see your throbbing dick

Starting point is 01:00:48 with like your weird vein. Oh, right? Oh, like... Greasy all with coconut oil, all shiny. And you think I'm gonna be like, ooh, like... I always think what these guys are thinking. I'm like, what did it?

Starting point is 01:00:57 Like, I think about like the asshole that's sitting there like, okay, let's the angle. No, can I tell you? On Snapchat, I got this guy that was fucking a dildo off the bathtub. It was like this huge dildo and he was fucking it up his ass and he sent it to me while he was beating his meat. And I messaged him back and I said, I've screenchotted this and I'm going to make a collage on my blog. Like, I have so many dickpicks in a file to make a collage. If you're going to send me a dick pick. They're doing that now that you're married and have a kid?

Starting point is 01:01:25 Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. That's so fucking disrespectful. Send me their address. Taylor, Taylor, was that you? Taylor, was that you? That was Taylor.

Starting point is 01:01:35 That was Taylor. Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, that did work for me a couple times when I was a sex addict. The dick pick? Yeah, because I was like, oh, this guy's packing. Okay. Yeah, if they're not fat. What if they send you a, like, a mic girl?

Starting point is 01:01:46 Do girls send vad shots to guys? Yes. I have done that in the past. I have done that in the past. I have done that the past. I've sent you some naked shots. No, but I think it's a completely different. I mean, again, this can sound sexist.

Starting point is 01:01:56 Guys are visual. though. Guys are visual. Yeah, it's a different thing when girl says, oh, that could get a guy turned on. But like, I just, again, I just think about the guy that's like, how do I get this girl? Like, okay, I've never really met her. Yeah, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's got the best idea. I'm going to take a picture of my dick.

Starting point is 01:02:11 Yeah. I'm going to get it. Like, God forbid. The weirdest thing is those people lead with that. They lead with the dick. That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's a weird. You got to think about the guy that's leading with that. And Taylor has a razor burn issue. It's like just a public service announcement. No one wants to see your razor burnt dick with a vein throbbing out of it. Also, what girls get hooked by the dick pick lead in?

Starting point is 01:02:29 That's what we're saying. Taylor, you for sure sent so many nasty dick. Tyler, send me some of those so I can make him sing. Taylor, put a cowboy hat on them. Answer me truthfully on our friendship. Have you ever sent a dick pick? Yes. Were you beating it?

Starting point is 01:02:47 It depends when. What, were you dating the girl? Yes. See, that's different. I don't know. I don't send, I don't go out like sent rampant dickpicks like, email blast dick pics no way yeah that's a different that's a different yeah but you're not like it's okay if it's a relationship so you haven't just sent a dick pick to a random girl no no no no I absolutely

Starting point is 01:03:06 never I would believe you no are you kidding I agree with Michael too that the dick pick lighting thing isn't like a thing it's not like oh you just need to get that natural light it's just very difficult what do you get a ring light or like you're gonna like stay it right someone should make diva lights for dicks because honestly it's so flattering. Well, that's what I'm saying is like, it's not like, with a filter for your dick. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:29 Even if that was, like, chill out the veins a little bit. Exactly. Oh, that's shit. Dick tune. Fucking smooth. Dick tune. Oh my God. A million dollar idea.

Starting point is 01:03:39 And Vaghtune. Yeah. We just kind of like, like, just like clean it all up a little bit. If only we had more time to execute on these other businesses, we would be getting there. But we just, we just don't. We don't have enough time in the day. I want to go back to win.

Starting point is 01:03:53 And I know this is like a total twist. but I want to go back when you said that you took care of a quadriplegic. Okay. What was that like? It was fucking life-changing. It was amazing. I was so fucking strung out at that point. But I needed a job and I, this guy put an ad in for a video director seeking assistant.

Starting point is 01:04:11 And I was like, oh my God, like back to my Hollywood route. It's like, cool, you know? But like I don't sound like that at all. And that's my fucking voice of my inner fucking jap, I guess. And so I showed up and it's like a loft in San Francisco. I knock and I'm like coming down from the day before and I'm like so fucking like uh from from like just tweaked out for days and a guy a quadriplegic in an electric wheelchair opens the door and I was like I never I didn't have handicapped other abled friends whatever the fuck you're

Starting point is 01:04:41 supposed to say I don't even know and anyone who's going to give me shit like I read it in San Francisco and people like freaked out and it's like have you ever been a fucking paraplegic no have you ever put a fucking gloved finger up someone's ass to help them to help them shit, no, then don't fucking talk to me about the language, because I've lived this. Have you done that? No? Shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? They got really weird about it. Yeah. And I was like, so he said, hi. And I said, I, I didn't know any handicapped people or other able, whatever the fuck it is. And I was just like, I tried not to show anything. And he was like, come this way. And he was zh. And we were like, went through his thing. And he said, I said, I thought, I thought,

Starting point is 01:05:24 this was a video director or assistant job. And he goes, it is. You're the personal assistant to me. And I was like, oh. And so there was this girl who worked in an AIDS hospice. And she goes, have you ever, like, worked in an AIDS hospice or worked with the elderly or worked with paralyzed people? And I said, no.

Starting point is 01:05:45 And he goes, have you ever dealt with shit? And I was like, I have a cat. I don't, you know what I mean? I was like, no. And he goes, well, I think you're really fucking funny. And I want you to try it. Like, I like your energy. And like, if it's not right for you, you can not.

Starting point is 01:06:01 And I was just like, again, it was the year of yes. So I was like, bitch, don't be a pussy. Let's do this. I was like, let's show up. And it turned out to be the most incredible job of my life, truly. I bathed this man. He had a catheter. I did exercises with him.

Starting point is 01:06:18 I dressed him. I made his, I fed him. It changed the way that I saw. disabled people, it changed, it made me see how fucking entitled I was. I was needed for the first time in my life, someone really needed me. Like if I didn't show up at 8 in the morning, that guy was lying in his own cold piss. Like I had to show the fuck up. And I was strung the fuck out at the time.

Starting point is 01:06:41 And I never was late and I never missed a day. Give you purpose. It was, and also he had been fine and he'd been to motorcycle accident and fucking. And it just made you feel like, you know, you're bitching about your life like you can walk bitch like you can walk and it was just like yeah and i just it just became just his body and his personality was so fucking amazing i mean he was just like you knocking boots and i was like not really he was like you better get through it because you never know you're going to be on the bike and someone's going to hit you boom then you can't and i was like okay

Starting point is 01:07:15 i'll get right on it and he like loved jimmy hendricks there was jimmy hendricks like posters all over his wall he used to sing and it was like he was the most joyful fucking person do you still talk to No. Would you? Yeah, of course. I called him when I was in treatment for the second time. You just had a falling out or just? No, well, I came to work and he looked at me and he knew I was high. And he said, I really love you as my assistant. I've lost way too many friends to speed and I can't be around it. And so unless you need to quit if you're going to stay with me. And I was sort of in the first sort of love affair. It was early days of my love affair with meth. And I didn't deny it. And I just said, well, I'm not ready to stop it. And he said, okay. And I think I called him a couple

Starting point is 01:08:07 years later from treatment. And I said, hi, I'm clean. And he was like, that's great. He said, I said, I just wanted to tell you, you're my favorite job. And he said, you're my favorite assistant. And I've never spoken to him to him since. It's like 25 years ago. I bet you he was really, happy that you were sober. Yeah, he had also just done acid and ate some girl out. So I was like, all right. I mean, you know, he's, you know, it was San Francisco. Yeah, I was like, I, I'm clinging. I'm in treatment. He goes, that's so great. I just did acid and ate some girl. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, I want to ask you something about. That guy sounds like a fucking character. Yeah, he sounds like a character. He was wild. I want to ask you about COVID with AA because.

Starting point is 01:08:48 How about just COVID and depression? Oh, my fucking God. I was talking to my sister about this. She's in recovery. She's been eight years sober. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm really proud of her. And she said that it's hard because you're so used to going to the meetings and stuff and having interaction.

Starting point is 01:09:04 And now it's like you're home. Yes. What do you think that's going to do to the AA community? Well, I know what it's done. So basically, and I've written articles about this too. So basically a big part of recovery, especially through 12-step and just in general is connection. And because when you, again, we're going to talk about dopamine. When you're with other people and you don't feel less than and you feel connected, your dopamine rises.

Starting point is 01:09:29 So now a big thing that drug addicts and alcoholics do naturally is isolate, especially when we shouldn't. When we're depressed, we isolate and we shut down, we don't answer the phone, which is exactly what we shouldn't do. And now we're being told to isolate. So what we've seen is a huge increase in overdoses, a huge increase in depression, a huge increase in suicide heights. I've just, a lot of my friends have relapsed. A lot of friends have really been depressed. There's Zoom meetings, but it's not the, it's not the fucking, it's like the Brady bunch, man. It's not the same.

Starting point is 01:10:05 It's like everyone's face in a box. You have no interaction. It's just not the fucking same. And I rehashed this quote all the time on the show. I said, The Road to Hell's paved with good intentions. And it's like, with this pandemic, I did this story the other day. And I was like, people are looking at it from the frame of reference. Like, oh, got to stop the spread. Got to stop the spread. And like, that's how we started. And it's started with probably good intentions to be safe and protect people. But they're not factoring in all these things. Like, what's going on with the suicide rates? Like, there's like, what's going on with people's business? Like, all these things are. Restaurant owners. Like, they're putting so much into the world right now. And they're like looking at this one stat of what happens if you get sick and get this illness. And there's a 0.0.0.0.1 chance. And also. So if you have a preexisting condition that you go, but like they're not looking at like what's happening to people in addiction.

Starting point is 01:10:48 What are happening to people that are seriously depressed? What's happening with suicide? Like nobody's bringing up those stats. I guarantee you this year all of those things are skyrocketing. Oh, well, everyone's drinking. I mean, the amount of porn and every well, okay, liquor stores are considered essential. So everyone's day drinking. So if you drink long enough, you're going to fucking create a physical addiction to alcohol.

Starting point is 01:11:09 So I think that there's going to be a new wave of alcoholics. for me it's been really hard. I've been extremely depressed. I want to see what happens with the numbers this year with all of these. Like, because I think you're looking, the people are looking at this one subset of numbers with COVID. They're not looking into like what's happening in these communities. Rehams are full. I mean, rehabs are full.

Starting point is 01:11:26 And there are some outside in person meetings. But, you know, you have to think a lot of people who are in treat or who are in recovery are going to have fucking other issues. They're going to have fucking hep C. They're going to have diabetes. They're going to have other stuff. You know what I mean? It's like, I've been really paranoid. You're the first people I've seen, really.

Starting point is 01:11:45 Yeah, I moved it once already. I pushed it once. We're the first people you've seen. Yeah, I mean, aside from my eyelash girl. Wait, so you said that you feel really depressed. Is it because you haven't seen anyone? Well, I work from home, first of all. So that's one thing.

Starting point is 01:12:00 I live by myself. And, yeah, I've been kind of quarantining. And so it's been really depressing. It's not how humans are supposed to live. No, so I do a lot better when I have a partner. And just I do better when I even when my roommate was here and he went back to New York, even when he was here, I just did a lot better. Are you sure about that? Because honestly, sometimes it's so fucking annoying living with someone.

Starting point is 01:12:21 Oh, I know. I've lived with some. I've lived with people. I was married and I, my, there are pros of living alone. Of course. People go to me, they go, and this guy's not a doctor. He's not an economist. He's not all these things.

Starting point is 01:12:32 I'm like, yeah. But like, it's that mean I'm not somebody that's able to ask the, like, the questions that we're asking here, which is like, is this pandemic doing the policies we've put in place? which legal, not legal, that's up for debate. Like, are they actually helping? Are they hurting more and are they agitating other problems in a much bigger way? Like, if we look at just the community, the addiction community, and like, and we look at suicides and we look at people in recovery, like, what's happening with those numbers? I guarantee people look at it.

Starting point is 01:12:58 Part of that's the isolation. Part of that is the financial strain. But it's all fabricated through all these things. There's been an upside, too, where it, now I can go to meetings in England. Now I'm connected to people. all over the fucking world. But how many are actually going into these meetings via Zoom compared to people that are just like, fuck it, I'm not, I can't go, I'm not going.

Starting point is 01:13:19 People go. When there's other things that have popped up, like the luckiest club out of Laura McCowan's book. And I lead that. What's that? Do I need to read that? Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can read that. The luckiest club. But show her book is called We Are the Luckiest.

Starting point is 01:13:37 I think other like pandemic pop-up support groups have shown up. and stuff like that. And I don't know, some people have gotten sober during the pandemic. There's a good time to work on yourself. Like I just, I dove in. I was like, let's fucking deal with this like attraction to fucking emotionally unavailable people. Like, I can't. Yeah, I think my only are people like, I haven't been in a relationship in 17 years.

Starting point is 01:13:57 I'm like, challenge accepted. I'm like, I can't do that any fucking more. I can't do it anymore. Yeah. No, I think like there's going to be good and bad stories, but I think like it's important for people to not just look at one. set of stats, right? Like you're like, okay, like people that are sick or how many are recovery. But like I think it's also important to say like, okay, like what's happening to suicide rates?

Starting point is 01:14:18 What's happening with depression? What's happening? Like I think we got to look at all the numbers, not just this one subset of. What do you do when you feel depressed like in quarantine? What are your tools? Sleeping. What is it? What about do you, do you call a sponsor? Do you take a walk? I call my sponsor. I've cried a lot. I need to write the second book. I mean, that will help me through it. is the perfect fucking time to do it. I got nothing to do. Fucking do it. How did you do the first one?

Starting point is 01:14:45 Did you do it an hour a day? No, but the first book was 20 years of them fucking making. You know what I mean? It was like I had been chronicling that stuff while I lived it. All that dialogue is real. It's a pressure to write the second one, huh? Yeah, because also everyone loves the first one. And it's so gnarly.

Starting point is 01:15:02 And it's like where I feel like I kind of blew my load. Like I have some crazy stories. But it's like, but everyone's like, we just want to hear your voice. Like we just want to hear your voice. And it's like, it's not going to be the same book. It's not going to be like all the crazy stories. It's going to be different. Tell us about your podcast.

Starting point is 01:15:16 It's called Recap Confidential. It's with Joe Schrank who started The Fix, the magazine The Fix. He's a clinical social worker and an interventionist and a sober companion. And I guess we have like, we've done about three and a half months worth, one a week via Zoom. So it sounds like, we just sort of learned everything. He's like, let's start a podcast. Like, okay. And it was like, I.

Starting point is 01:15:41 no idea how fucking much work it was. What a similar story. I was like, oh my God, this is like having, now he and I have like this child together. Do you know what I mean? And there's a sound guy and there's a this and the website and the there. And I'm like, oh my. Do we know what you mean? And I was like, holy fuck.

Starting point is 01:15:58 And then the booking and the this. And it's like, yeah. So it's basically we talk to politicians. We talk to celebrities. We're having Colin Quinn on. We're talking. We talk to Kristen Johnson. We just talked to the principal of, did you see 16 in recovering, the MTV show about the North Shore Recovery High School? No. Oh, that's totally your world.

Starting point is 01:16:18 Oh, my God. I got to watch it. It's like, it's a school for, for, for, you're going to recovery. Yeah, or trying to. It's on MTV? Yeah, it's called 16 recovering. We had the principal Michelle Lipinski on. We had on Ryan O'Callaghan, who was the first NFL player to come out as gay and who had a fucking oxy problem.

Starting point is 01:16:36 We had on just, we've had amazing. guest and we're also not like the AA like yay and I got sober and my life was happily ever after with sparkles and unicorns yay my higher power like we're talking the real shit and we're talking about how rehab doesn't work and we're talking about fucking body brokering and we're talking about drug policy we're having politicians on we recorded an episode with Chris Swanger the uh the head and uh CEO of the spirits lobby going hey man like 8% of people can't fucking use your product safely. What are you going to do about it?

Starting point is 01:17:12 For a lot of people, it's sort of what they've been looking for. Like a real shit, a real shit. I don't understand why everyone, like, you don't become, like, angelic when you get into recovery. Like, you can still be cool and a badass and, like, swear

Starting point is 01:17:27 and, like, be curious about things and push back on things. Well, probably in a clearer way than you could if you were using. Yeah, but a lot of people get in recovery and they feel like they've got to fucking follow this narrative of what it looks like. Even online.

Starting point is 01:17:41 And religions are a big part of recovery. I mean, I don't know if you saw this morning. I was like totally nervous about coming on. I'm like, I don't know why these fuckers want me on. But like, it's a really big podcast, you guys. People tell us that. I don't know. I mean, I feel like, what I always tell people, like, it's like, it's like, it's

Starting point is 01:17:53 be like if we were having a really long intimate dinner and just like. I know. But I was like, why wouldn't we want you on? You're so interesting. But my requirement to come on this podcast is don't be boring. That's the requirement. Let's all get mayor. What are you talking about?

Starting point is 01:18:08 Like, what do you mean why we would want you on? You want more. stories? I want to bring them out. Please. Listen, we want to me, we'll come back on. You wanted to ask, you wanted to ask some sex stuff. Oh, well, no, I wanted, no, I think, oh, my, my question was, was, I'm talking about squirting. We could talk about squirting.

Starting point is 01:18:25 Um, listen, where you can I love you guys? Taylor does. Taylor's beating off in the Taylor, you want to talk about squirting? There's certain people who like to have, I've heard people say it's fake. Yes, I am a squirder. I became a squirder at fucking 42 years old. It's fucking, is squirting? Is squirting piss or is it, is it, is it not pissed? Like, that's the, there is, There is a debate. It's a mix of fluids, right? It's a mix of fluids. Okay, so I would prefer to think that it is not piss.

Starting point is 01:18:46 Might have a little layer of piss. Yes, I think it has a tiny bit of piss in it. My ex-boyfriend was like, I don't give a fuck what it is. It's fucking rad. It's different than piss. It's very clear and sweet. It is the sweet nectar. It's divine nectar.

Starting point is 01:18:59 Taylor loves it. Taylor's drinking it in this awkwardness. It's like the thing that feeds the hummingbirds. It happened to me out of the blue, and I was like, what in the fuck's going on? I was like, how do I? You can't do drugs, but you can't do drugs, but you can. can squirt. So that sounds fun. Yeah, well, not right now. I haven't squirted for anyone for three years.

Starting point is 01:19:17 She's available. You're available. I know, but I don't want people who just want. I know, right? What did you say? Old faithful. Fucking, you know, you've got to get like a special, like, thing for your bed. It's like a whole deal. Like some guys would, I was a squirter when I was a sex addict and some guys were kind of like, you got to give people a heads up. Like, not everyone wants to be waterboarded. Like, get down there.

Starting point is 01:19:36 You know what I mean? Like, you got it's like a clown flower. You're like, it's so pretty. you've got to give people a heads up. What was the first time you had a encounter with it? Taylor, calm down back then. He was like, tell me more. I know, God. What's like a hidden town? Like, did you just all of a sudden you were just

Starting point is 01:19:53 in having intercourse? This is why I put like, normally like producers have the glasses. I put this way the fuck up. I don't want to make, I don't want to make any eye contact with him who he's back there. Taylor wants to know all the history of how you start.

Starting point is 01:20:03 Okay, so I didn't put this in the book because I wasn't out with it yet. But during my sex addiction, I didn't even tell. dated this guy for about six months and he was older than me and he was really kind to me and uh he I felt really safe the first time I was with him I came seven times and squirted and I had never come with really anybody like very rarely and I was like are you a wizard like what the fuck's going on like and he was quite large too I was like you're fat I was like but my pussy was like we like him and I was

Starting point is 01:20:34 like what's going on he knew what the fuck he was doing he'd been super studly and I felt really safe with him and he thought I was just like the hottest thing on the planet. But I was like, what's going on? He's like, you're squirting. And I was like, I don't want to do that all the time. And yeah, well, now, so I went to the gynecologist and I said, so this has started happening. And how do I stop it?

Starting point is 01:20:54 And she goes, one squirter, always squirtor. And I was like, fuck. So people have made me do it in public and it's not fun. What do you mean in public? What? Yeah, like you're at dinner and all of a sudden you're just squirting. One guy I dated could do it just with eye contact. No way.

Starting point is 01:21:11 The polyamorous guy in the book. Yeah, Zander. He would look at you. He would just be like, squirt for me. You don't, you can't do that to me with that contact. Is it, fucking work harder. Talk about feeling an adequate. No, I was.

Starting point is 01:21:23 So it was awful. And also like, so then all of a sudden you're just like, like a bucket of water is going on the fucking concrete. And you're like, you look like you've pissed your pants. You're like, I want to fucking die. Do you have to carry pants around with me? It's fucking weird. And have you ever. slept with someone that blows their load in 30 seconds every time?

Starting point is 01:21:42 No. Okay, hold on. So you're telling me that you, you, she was a sex addict, Taylor, and she has never encountered your problem. No, but I think a lot of women have. Yeah, it's, I think it's, it's something that's more or less not, it's less noticeable. You may like, for instance, if you ever, something that's not really, 30 seconds is noticeable.

Starting point is 01:22:01 Well, yeah, 30 seconds a minute. I mean, potato, potato. Oh. I mean, I think he means, I think you need, I think you. you need to be in like therapy for that. No, I know, edging helps a lot.

Starting point is 01:22:10 I no longer have an issue with it. Well, what happens? Edging. Yeah, no one knows that is. I'm surprised. I'm surprised. What's edging?

Starting point is 01:22:16 I kind of heard of it. There is very much, I agree with you. Like there probably is, you're almost coming and you stop. Yeah. See, I know. Yeah, you know.

Starting point is 01:22:24 Yeah. I think there is probably therapy in his future, if not tomorrow soon. Like, I think like that would be. Well, it's better than fucking someone losing your boner, which has happened to me and fucking killed my fucking soul.

Starting point is 01:22:35 Hey, but let's not fine. But sometimes. You're like, oh my God, I want to die. Sometimes that has nothing. I cry. I cry every time. Yeah, that's not fun. And then guys are like, it's not about you.

Starting point is 01:22:44 Like, it's fucking terrible. But that's true. Sometimes it's not about the woman. It doesn't happen too often. Well, that's a whiskey dick is a thing. And it's definitely has nothing to do with that. Just like you drink too much. You're like, oh, no.

Starting point is 01:22:55 So you, it happens to you a lot. No, it's happened to every guy at some point in their life, like from just drinking a lot. Okay. Well, anyway. Whatever is to sleep at night. So. So I was sell up for two and a half years and I went and had coffee with someone that I was attracted to.

Starting point is 01:23:11 And I just was like, you know, I warned him. I was just like, hey, like heads up. Like, I haven't fucked anybody or even kissed anybody in two and a half years. So like, but I was a squirder. And like, so I don't know if like dust is going to come out of my pussy or what's going to happen. Just like heads up. And he was just like, why are you even telling me this? For coffee. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:31 Of course. So I was like, oh, cool. I'm still a sex addict even though like right now. That's a hell of an icebreaker. I know because I was like fucking trying to hook him, right? And I was like, also I wanted to see if that was his kinkery. He was creeped out by it. And then I lunged at him at that parking lot and kissed him.

Starting point is 01:23:47 And then I was like, I got to go. I got to go. Like I feel something weird happening. Like, I got to go. And I got in my car and he got in the car and he reached over and he like touched the zipper of my pants. And I squirted it all over the fucking car. And I wanted to fucking die. So when you unleash it, it just unleashes.

Starting point is 01:24:04 It's like a fountain. Like, I was like, he goes, oh, wow, you weren't joking. And I was like, how bad is it? And I showed him my ass. He goes, do you have extra jeans? I have a friend that told me she can fill up a gallon of milk. I believe it. Jesus Christ.

Starting point is 01:24:17 It's a lot. It's very weird. It's very weird. Chamu's going to get in the splash zone. No, never, never. My ex was super into it. He would drink that shit. He was totally into it.

Starting point is 01:24:27 Because you know what. I'm sure there's guys listening right now that are into it. Well, you can't fake it. Yeah, I'm sure. How do you fake something like that? You can't fake it. Well, they do in porn. They'll take like a thing that like like what is it?

Starting point is 01:24:38 A fake squirder. A fake squirder. You guys are all beating off to fake squirters. You mean they're not real orgasms and porn? What? My whole life's alive. Anyway, I don't want all these creepies getting next. I think you're going to get a couple creepies in your inbox.

Starting point is 01:24:53 Sorry to tell you. So yeah. Let's let's change track. Yeah, well no. I mean, I think there's a million angles we could go here. The thing I wanted to know about sex addiction was how to disqual. distinguish between, like someone that actually has a real problem compared to people that are just doing as a cop on. I think you kind of answered it. It's like, well, it feels, yeah, it's you fuck people you don't want to

Starting point is 01:25:11 you fuck. You fuck when you don't want to. It's affecting your life. There are negative consequences. You're not using protection. Because we all have those friends in life like, oh, my partner did this, but like they're a sex addict or they're a porn addicts. Like, no, they got caught and they're like trying to get the fuck out of it. I mean, you're not, it's not an enjoyable thing. I would come home and cry and it was like, it was awful. It was just, it felt exactly like my drug addiction. Like driving. I would be shaking. And like, it was like going to meet the dope man and stuff like that. And then I would go home and I'd feel like fucking garbage. If someone is listening and they're struggling with sex addiction because we've never had

Starting point is 01:25:44 someone that has talked about this openly on the podcast or drug addiction, what are some steps that you would tell them to take? And I know you can't give blanket advice because that's kind of like it's not like. I would say don't feel fucking ashamed about it. Like it's something. It's a process addiction like gambling. So anything that you can trigger like, anything that gets you a flooded dopamine you can become addicted to shopping it's a process addiction so

Starting point is 01:26:10 you know it for me it was about validation for me it was about escape it's usually not about sex it's usually about avoiding intimacy there you know what i mean and then so it's like it's like it's exciting it's like it's like it's very on the deal and blah blah blah and like whatever but it can become really dark i would say to seek out help i mean you definitely need to seek out some help mine I fell in love and it went away and then, well, it didn't go away. I just channeled it into like being like a super aggressive, horny person in my relationship where I was like, are you going to fuck me tonight or what? And he was like, oh my God, like, well, that voice is hot.

Starting point is 01:26:47 So, but then after that, I just completely shut down. So now I'm called with sexually anorexic, I guess, where you're not, it's not healthy. It's not recovery. It's me being shut down. It's me being afraid to act out my old behaviors. it's me being afraid to be hurt again. So now I just have shut down until he finds my soulmate. Yeah, Michael, start looking.

Starting point is 01:27:11 Michael, come on. You're going to look around. Michael, look around. I like tattoos. Michael does have some cute friends. Michael has some friends. I want someone who's smart and funny. And if someone has a strong personality, I'll be like, ha, ha.

Starting point is 01:27:22 Like, I can be that weird girl. Like, if you've got a lot of masculine energy, I'll go into my feminine. I'll be like, hang on. So I'm not always like, yeah, what's going? going on, you know? I'm not always like that. No, I want to find you a dude that's like they got to, I think that you would, I don't know you that well just today, but like I think you need somebody that can match your energy and not be insecure if you were putting out that. Like I think a lot of guys that can't deal with a woman that has a little bit of masculine energy. Like there's an issue there with that guy. Of course. Yeah. Like I like, for me, like, I like strong women. It's not that I don't want a woman. It's just like I also don't want someone that's going to be like doting over me or like not checking me if I get out of line. Yeah. I would walk all over that. person. I couldn't do it. I need someone with my wife that's going to be like, no, no, no, motherfucker. Like, get it together. Yeah. And I mean, I want someone who's not threatened. I mean, I don't think I'm successful.

Starting point is 01:28:10 Why is that so hard to find? I don't know. It's so, I don't know. Especially in L.A. Like, what is going on? Why was born and raised here? I mean, I don't know. I mean, you're lucky you're married. And it's like, it's just. Yeah, but he's from San Diego. That's why I want you to, I want him to look around because he's from San Diego. It's a different energy. What's weird is young guys are really attracted to me. And I'm kind of, You don't look 50. Well, yeah, and I act like I'm 13. So it's like,

Starting point is 01:28:37 Taylor's like, Michael, do you know the tattoo? He's like, he's going to do. I love that Taylor talks so openly about his fucking just like, like premature ejaculate. Taylor has talked about fissing on this podcast. Wow. You asked if you could cuss before you came on this podcast. He's talked about his problem. He's talked about how he stripped at my wedding.

Starting point is 01:28:54 Listen, there's been some wild shit set on this show, but I would say like not, this might be some of the wildest, but it's not. It's aligned with some of the other things we've done. Taylor has a while. I think we, I mean, I'm not saying this stuff to brag or anything because it's not like, some people are like, ew, gross. Like some people are like, that's fucking gross. Fuck those people. Taylor's obviously in the screen.

Starting point is 01:29:14 And also, by the way, but it's like, I can't help it. It's a bodily thing. Like, what do you fucking want me to do? Like, it means that I'm super hot for you. Like, it started on its own. And I, there's, I don't know how to control it. We got a review the other day and it said, like, there's some cussing on the show. I can't believe it.

Starting point is 01:29:27 I think I just think about that. Imagine that person tuning into this episode. You know what I think it's important The paplov's bell where he ring a bell Give the dog a treat Ring the bell and then the dog starts salivating You're basically You've been conditioned like that

Starting point is 01:29:40 Because now you don't get the treat But you ring the bell and you start to squirt He's right Remember you said that I don't get what he's saying When someone explain it in English The way he explains things is super He's saying she was conditioned in a way But then like you take that conditioning way

Starting point is 01:29:52 But he's right I don't even need to be fucked Like someone can just like touch the fucking zipper Of my jeans and I'll fucking squirt I mean I get that I hear a vibrator And I'm like oh my God need to have sex. Like, you start to, yeah, like now, like I'm like, huh, but it was like, I mean, I haven't squirted it since that weird incident.

Starting point is 01:30:07 Okay, we got to get you some coconut oil loob. I'm going to get your address. Oh my God. I used to, that's what I used to just use coconut oil. Okay, well, we got to get you some loob. We got to get you the new vibrator that just launched. Yeah, but when I was, when I used to have vibrators, then I couldn't come with anybody. Like, it makes you, it has the bar so high.

Starting point is 01:30:25 Like, yeah, but they're fun to use with somebody. Did you use that Hitachi one, that big thing? Yes. How did you know? Fucker? I like totally desensitized my pussy. People are like, do you have a callus on your pussy? I had that big fucking shoulder massager. When I was married, I just lay on that thing like fucking five times a day.

Starting point is 01:30:45 And then like nobody can compare to that. So I stopped. Yeah. That thing's too much. Yeah. And then now I can come with people again. That thing's meant for massaging. Yeah, because it desensitized.

Starting point is 01:30:54 Yeah. That thing is meant for massaging massive knots out of your back and neck. Maybe you won't like the, maybe you won't like the woo vibration. Nobody's using that to massage anything. The woo vibrator is like a six-knit. I live in a building where my fucking friends can hear me on the phone. I don't want to fucking be like, ah. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 01:31:10 But we'll send you Lou. Just like find some, the guy that's his own place. I'm on the hut. No, I'm fucking, I'm a rad girlfriend. Yeah, I bet. I can't cook, but I'll do your fucking laundry.

Starting point is 01:31:20 I'm a good fuck. I'm a very loving person. I'm super loyal. That's the clip I'll say. We'll just put that. That's what I'll say. Don't let them read the book. Somebody was using the Hattachi one last night.

Starting point is 01:31:30 blew the power out in LA. That's how big they are. That is not true, but that did. I mean, did you got, yeah, the walk for two minutes, all of West Hollywood. I was like, what's happening? Taylor knows two minutes too well. Okay, so you can read her book. Oh, they're having so much fun. You can come back anytime. We're going to have you back.

Starting point is 01:31:46 We can come back twice. You can come back anytime you want. Yeah, but he's Bob Forrest. So, we don't, we love to have interesting dynamic people on here. I don't care how many followers they have. I don't care how famous they are. If you're interesting and dynamic, like you, you can come back anytime you want.

Starting point is 01:32:02 Like message me. I literally live around the corner. Good. Great. Great. So if someone drops out, you'd be like, you guys can be like, Amy, get your fucking ass over there. Be careful.

Starting point is 01:32:11 Be careful. Perfect. We'd have to kick some of the barring people off. You honestly can come back anytime because I had a hundred more questions. Michael's going to find my boyfriend. Michael's going to find your boyfriend. I need to start writing my book. No, you're right.

Starting point is 01:32:21 But I also think you and Michael need to talk offline about it. See, this is the fucking energy. All the guests that come on the show need to bring, Amy. Like, I'm pumped. You are welcome back open invitation anytime. you want. Well, you guys are fucking lovely and you just made me laugh and just made me feel open and fucking safe.

Starting point is 01:32:36 And I just think it's really important to talk about all this shit. It's so important to talk about it because it takes the stigma out of it. Of course. That's, see, that's what breaks stigma is being open about it and saying, hey, man, you know what? I fucking recovered. And now I'm like, I'm a little fucked up. But if someone comes around and I like you, I like you, yeah, and it's like,

Starting point is 01:32:53 let's work through your shit and I'm seeing this coach. Like, I'll work through it. You know what I mean? You have to talk about it. I hope that we can continue to break barriers with this podcast and talk about things that people think are taboo. So any time you want to come on, if you have a, if you want to text me an ideas list, come back on anytime. Read her book, you guys, My Fair Junkie.

Starting point is 01:33:13 I got it off. I got it off Amazon and I also have it on the book. Maybe we'll get like three candidates and they'll be another mic and we can have them come in and you can, we can show their dick. You can, we can all, we can interview them together. See who makes their score. And I'm going to make it. I'm going to make it sing and put sunglasses and mustache on.

Starting point is 01:33:30 Whichever one makes her score. But I want to make sure before they do the dick pick that we get that app going to make the, you know, face tune for the dick. And then we get the ring light for them. Right. Dick tune. Yeah. Taylor, trademark dick tune. What's your Instagram handle and what's your website?

Starting point is 01:33:42 Where can everyone find you? Amy Dresner. I'm Amy Dresner on Twitter. Instagram. You'll see this morning where I was like all like doing blowing out my jufro and I'm like, what's up with my puffy eyes? I'm like, look. Look, look. Look, look.

Starting point is 01:33:54 That's putting prescription hemorrhoid cream. Because I'm puffy. That works. That works. Under the eyes. It does work. It tightens the under eyes. It's hemorrhid cream.

Starting point is 01:34:01 Yeah. Right? It works. Prescription. You have prescription? I don't have prescription. I got to get prescription. Don't tell that to anyone either.

Starting point is 01:34:07 Yeah. We'll cut that part out. I'm on, yeah. Amy Dresner everywhere. Amy Dresner is my website. Rehab confidential on Instagram. Rehab confidential on Twitter. And your Twitter's funny.

Starting point is 01:34:18 You're funny. I'm funny. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yeah. If you're in recovery, I think, or know someone or just want to learn more, my co-host is a total. I'm going to listen to your podcast. He's a fucking dick.

Starting point is 01:34:29 I want to listen. I can't wait. We're very different, but it's interesting. We laugh a lot. Well, you're a hoot. Come back anytime. Thank you, honey. Thank you, Amy.

Starting point is 01:34:38 That was fun. Let us know your favorite part of this episode with Amy on my latest Instagram at the Skinny Confidential and someone from the team will slide into your inbox and send you some new cheeky skinny confidential stickers. Make sure you've read it and reviewed the podcast and we'll see you next Tuesday.

The Bossticks - My Fair Junkie Amy Dresner On Sex Addiction, Drug Addiction, & The Road To Recovery

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