The Bossticks - Rainn Wilson: From The Office To Soul Boom — Finding Purpose, Spiritual Growth, & Meaning In Life

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

#914: Sit down with Rainn Wilson — actor, producer, comedian, and author of Soul Boom, a powerful exploration of spirituality, healing, and meaning. Known worldwide as Dwight Schrute from The Office, Rainn opens up about the years he struggled as an actor, the unexpected rise of his career, and how humor became both a shield and a compass. He dives deep into his spiritual awakening, the inspiration behind Soul Boom, his search for purpose, and how he believes we can build more meaning into our modern lives. This is a candid, inspiring, and surprisingly emotional look at one of Hollywood's most beloved actors — far beyond the character you think you know. To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with Rainn Wilson click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   To learn more about Rainn Wilson's Soul Boom, including his latest workbook & podcasts, visit https://www.soulboom.com.    This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential Your skincare routine, reimagined. Shop The Skinny Confidential Face Towels today at https://shopskinnyconfidential.com/products/face-towels.   This episode is sponsored by Squarespace Go to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, http://squarespace.com/SKINNY to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.   This episode is sponsored by Cymbiotika Go to http://Cymbiotika.com/TSC today to get 20% off plus free shipping.    This episode is sponsored by EBay There's always more to discover – eBay has millions of pre-loved finds, from hundreds of brands, backed by eBay Authenticity Guarantee. eBay. Things. People. Love.   This episode is sponsored by Higher Self Go to http://thehigherself.app/skinny and get 4 months free or 30% off the yearly plan. That's literally 53 cents a day to reprogram your subconscious and completely upgrade your life.   This episode is sponsored by The RealReal  Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to http://TheRealReal.com/skinny.   This episode is sponsored by Rebel  Spread some holiday cheer (and serious savings) at http://FromRebel.com.   This episode is sponsored by Neiman Marcus If you're looking for gifts that are guaranteed to surprise and delight, head to Neiman Marcus.   Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Skinny Confidential, Him and Her Show. Today we have the one and only Rain Wilson. Rain is an Emmy nominated and SAG Award-winning actor, writer, producer, and New York Times best-selling author, best known as Dwight Shrewt on NBC's The Office. He gained early acclaim on HBO's 6 Feet Under and has appeared in films like The Meg, Jerry and Marge Go Large, and Code 3, as well as a series including Star Trek, Discovery, Dark Wins, and Utopia.

Lorne and I have wanted Rain on this podcast for a very long time, not just because we're a fan of his work as an actor, but we love what he's doing now in the spiritual, mindful space, and we love what he's done with his soul, Boombook and now The Workbook. So check him out. This episode goes all over the place. We talk about the office, but we also get very spiritual with rain. We go into wellness.

We go into health. We go into mindfulness. And it was a really great impactful conversation that I think you guys are going to enjoy. With that, Rain Wilson, welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. It is strange sitting with some people because, like, we grew up watching you. And it's weird to sit here with you. Not that, like, you're not that, like, you're not.

So you're not so young that you say you grew up watching me. It's not like you were four watching the office. No, we were like 18. Still growing up. But you know what I mean? Like we're young. All right. Fair enough.

The way he got me to be his wife was through the office. We binge watched it together. And I made her like sit down and watch it with me. Because when I saw the office and I saw that that was his sense of humor, I was turned on. Wow. It was like an early Netflix. That's like the highest compliment the office has ever gotten as a show. And it's gotten plenty of compliments.

So you guys in and firmly. That's amazing. We were making out to you and Michael. Oh, that's, okay, that's gross. It is really full circle to have you here. And I was excited when we got the opportunity to interview you because I love to tell people's stories. And I think that it would be really cool to get all the behind the scenes and the context of everything you've done. What was the first moment that you knew you wanted to be an actor?

Wow. You're going way back. Way back. Wow. The first moment that I wanted to be an actor. You know, this sounds crazy because I played an iconic role of a comic sidekick on the sitcom. But when I was a kid, I grew up watching sitcoms. I mean, that's kind of all my family did night after night after night. Even the bad ones through the 70s and early 80s. You know, Bob Newhart Show, MASH watched every episode, Taxi. I love cheers all of these great shows and it was always like the comic sidekick characters that I would be like I want to do that now I had no idea how to get there I didn't know like like what does that what does that mean my dad worked in the sewer construction in suburban Seattle I didn't know any professional artists he was kind of a wannabe artist and he would paint and write weird books and stuff like that but But I had no idea how to be an artist, but I was like, you know, I want to, I want to be like Radar O'Reilly on MASH. He says all the comes in and just says a bunch of funny lines and is kind of a clown. And I always knew I was a little bit of a clown myself.

And, you know, maybe I could do something like that. So fast forward to high school and especially this one high school, I went in suburban Chicago. We moved and I started doing theater. And I was kind of like, oh, this is the next best thing. At least I can perform. I can make people laugh. I can improvise. I can do physical comedy and stuff like that.

But even then, it wasn't like, oh, this is my trajectory is to be on a sitcom. But I just kind of, I kind of knew it in my bones. I was like, I think I could do that. Did you ever think you could make a living at it or you just wanted to do the thing? I had never met a single person in my life growing up that had ever made a check from doing art. So I knew a lot of people doing art. Like I knew people that played guitar. My dad painted, you know, some big crazy paintings.

I knew people that aspired to be artists in some way here and there. But I never knew anyone that had gotten paid for it. So it just wasn't on my radar. Then I went, you know, then I was a theater geek. I kind of gave up being a chess team geek and a bassoon playing geek and model United Nations dork. and went all in on the on the theater geek world and then i started going to theater of classes and training and you know ended up at NYU for theater training but even then i was like well i guess i'll be an actor in the theater i'll go do a christmas carol at some theater and i'll get

380 bucks a week and you know play uh bert von hooverstein or whatever so out of curiosity what did you think you would do to support yourself like it sounds like the acting is like your passion but you You obviously had to live. So what were you doing at the time? I really did. I worked so many odd jobs. I mean, it's crazy. I worked.

I was a handyman's assistant at an apartment building. I delivered marine supplies. I was a bus boy, a dishwasher bus boy, then waiter at a variety of restaurants. I did cater waitering. My wife and I had a dog walking service that lasted all of a month. The list goes on and on and on with a crazy job. I once had a job counting, cars from a freeway overpass on the carpool lane with a clicker for a study from the University

of Washington. I spent a couple of weeks sitting on a freeway overpass. You name it, I did it, just to kind of pay the bill. So, you know, in terms of being an actor, I didn't know what I was going to do. Maybe teach acting on the side. I didn't know how that worked. Do you learn how to be funny or is there an art and a science behind being funny? Both. Yeah. So you can learn a lot about being funny. You could take an improv class and you kind of, it's a laboratory to study like what works, what's funny, what's not.

It's like, oh, specific things are funny. Oh, yelling is not funny, you know, unless it's Steve Correll, then it's pretty funny. But, you know, and so acting class as improv, I suppose if you tried stand-up comedy, you'd kind of learn what's funny and what's not. But, you know, I also think that comedy

in a lot of ways for people like me, I was kind of a dork. I never really fit in. You know, had a, you know, troubled childhood home life. You know, it's a coping mechanism. It's a survival mechanism. Like, I was never going to be the best looking guy in the room or the most popular or the most successful. But I could make people laugh.

And then I took my first acting class. And then I made the girls laugh. And they invited me to sit at their lunch table. And then I was like, okay, I'm in. So it's almost like you have. When you associate that. You would have invited me to see your lunch table. I would have made you laugh in an action class.

By the way, this is my friend behind here, my producer, Taylor, since I was 12 years old. And the reason I keep him around this long is because he's making me laugh. He's an absolutely terrible producer. Taylor seems very stressed out, though. He is stressed out. He is the Dwight of the office. He is? Yeah.

This is true. Let me like, so we've worked together. We've known each other since we were 12, all of us. All of you guys? We haven't been together that whole time, but we've all known each other since middle school. Where was this? In San Diego. In like Del Mar area, you know, as we grew up down there.

Wow, I didn't know successful people came from San Diego. Yeah. Zing on San Diego. San Diego people are punching the air right now. I love San Diego, especially old school. Like, San Diego in the 90s was like magic land. So good. I will say now that if I discovered San Diego,

San Diego as a grown man with like I would be like I'll never leave him but since we grew up there the San Diego people are but yes you would have sat at my table I would have wanted you on my table because funny there's nothing better than funny yeah but yes Taylor is he's worked with us for forever known us forever and he has his own HR department siloed specifically around him yes there's a whole team that just makes sure yeah okay so so you associated like happiness sort of with being funny. Well, I wouldn't say happiness. I would just say it became a survival skill and a coping mechanism.

So I don't know if you know the great social scientist about happiness, Arthur Brooks, Dr. Arthur Brooks. He is amazing. He has a column in the Atlantic. And he always talks about how, you know, people that grew up in kind of difficult situations often use comedy as a way to cope and to get by because you can't laugh and cry at the same time. Or you can't, you can't, but you can't laugh and feel despair at the same time. And so laughter is something you bring to yourself to get by difficult situations. It's not like I was

beaten or tied to a radiator or anything like that. It was just an unhappy marriage that I grew up in. Is that what you mean when you said troubled childhood? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just my parents, they got divorced the second I left for college. They never should have been married in the first place. It just was not a happy household, that's all. And in school, I found that it was a way for me to get noticed, get attention, make friends. So I leaned in.

You know, I think that's that way with a lot of people that, you know, are funny people are considering themselves working in comedy. Being funny is number one. I think it's number one. Wow. I got to tell you that. It's important. That's why I told you I had to gauge a sense of humor before I dated him.

It's really important. He passed. Yeah, he passed. Well, I think, like, you know, I believe one of the corners starts to, so like a long-term relationship was being able to laugh together a lot. Sure. And share the same kind of jokes and inside jokes and sense of humor around things. So, yeah, I mean, like, I think, and, you know, like when the world starts to go to

shit, which it does time to time, comedy, I think, is what brings everybody kind of back together. It's like, everyone starts to kind of look like, okay, this is a, absurd with laugh about it. Right. Right. Like it's the thing, it's the great connector of people. What was the first big break that you had when it came to comedy? Well, listen, I went to theater school. So I was doing, I was just making plays and playing characters. You know, I played Hamlet, you know, in, in acting school. I wasn't necessarily like funny guy. Got it. Now, did I excel at doing comedy? Yeah, I did better and, you know,

comedic roles and stuff like that. But I didn't do stand-up. I didn't do improv. I played characters. And then I spent 10 years doing theater in and around New York on tours and regional theaters and stuff like that. So, you know, my career was about transforming into characters. And if you need to get a laugh, you've got to find a way to get a laugh.

And a lot of the characters that I played were funny. And then when I came out here to L.A., you know, I found a niche. You know, I had struggled making a living in the theater. In fact, I was in New York 10 years. and I think your audience will appreciate this. I calculated it. For those 10 years, I never made more than $17,000 in a year doing acting. Wow.

For the first 10 years of my career. Now I had unemployment and I would weigh tables and cater and drive a moving van. That was another one of my big jobs side hustles. It wasn't until I came to L.A., doors started opening for me because I had this ability to create weird, interesting characters, hence eventually Dwight Shrewt, but I played a lot of other characters before and after Dwight. I think people don't understand how hard and difficult the theater is. It's, to me, it seems like, and again, I don't know, but like the most difficult kind of form of acting, it would seem, because it's live.

What advice do you have for someone that has to get up in front of people, in front of a live audience, and be comfortable? Well, you know, the whole idea of acting and a lot of acting training is figuring out how to not be self-conscious. Yeah. Right? So, but you can, this applies to public speaking. It applies to being on camera. It applies to having a conversation on cameras and with microphones in a podcast. Public speaking used to be my biggest fear in the world. Yeah. And that's now I obviously do it a lot. But it used to terrify me. Right. And probably because you're so self-aware. You're like, what do they think of? me, how am I standing? Should I put my hands in my pockets? Oh, I was going to say the other thing. Why did I say that? I should have said the

like it's a self-consciousness that makes being up in front of people difficult. So when you study acting, part of the study of acting is learning how to sink yourself in your character so that you're living, breathing, thinking as that character. And you're not kind of going like, how do I look? Is it, do I look okay? Does that sound weird? Maybe I should stand more like that. You're just, you're in the bones, you're in the skin, you're behind the eyeballs of the character, and you're pursuing what the character wants and pursuing that intention. So you can bring those same skills in terms of public speaking and in front of an audience. You're also in service to something larger. When you're an actor, you're trying to help tell a story. It's bigger than you. It's not, it's not about you. It's about the scene. It's about what's the point of the scene? Where are you trying to go? What's the style that the scene needs? to be played in. So there's something bigger than you driving it. And it's the same way with

public presentation. It's like, let the thing that you're trying to impart be the most important thing. So it takes away from that self-consciousness. This is like, is the Daniel Day Lewis characters? He just like sunk in too deep and too far. Is he just like so deep in there behind the eyes? There's a lot of actors that, there's a lot of actors that do that, that go in way, way deep. Like he becomes Abe Lincoln for like a year. For a year. And you imagine being married to him? You have to like turn into the wife. What's her name? Martha?

I don't know. George Washington. You have to like really like really get into it with him. What would- Do you do that? Is it like that, I mean like when you're playing someone for a long time, is it like that deep or is that you can kind of come in and out, take the pants on and off? No, I mean, obviously I wasn't like walking into the set of the office as Dwight Shrew

and like living as Dwight for 10 years. But I have tried that on films before. I did this film no one saw, even though it's really good. It's called Hesher. It's with Joseph Gordon Levitt and Natalie Portman. And it's in a legion of independent films that I've done smaller films that no one ever saw. But, and I played this kind of pill-popping dad who was kind of catatonic with grief. And I was like, you know, the only way that this is going to work is if I'm just like, if I stay there.

I'm not going to like go. And action. You know what I mean? Like I have to just, I have to bring it with me, you know? So because it was such a heavy kind of emotional thing. Yeah, and it's not something you can fake and it's not something you can push or indicate. You know, no, I'm so sad. Like you have to, you have to go there, you know.

And so I spent several weeks on that film just, and I told the crew and people like, hey, I'm going to just kind of be in my own space and just kind of in my own. And crews are pretty good with that, you know, leaving you alone when it's clear like you want to have some space. And I feel like it helped the role, but I don't, I don't do that a lot. That's a hard one to have to play catatonic person that's like, Yeah, that's a tough one. Yeah.

When you get out of that kind of role, how do you undo it? Yeah, you have to exercise it and really let it go. I have friends who have really struggled with, with that, like letting roles go or taking it home with you even, you know, and, and it, and it bleeds. into your real life, but I think people that struggle with that are mental defectives. Sometimes you take home a role. I would love to hear, I would love for you to elaborate on this. I'll elaborate later.

Okay. Sometimes you take home a role. What role is that? What role is it? It depends on the night. But I don't know what you're just. Let's go there. Let's go to it.

Okay. When you had your first big break, what was the audition like for that? Well, the break that I had came before the office, and it was a show called Six Feet Under, and it was on HBO. Of course. And that was a really big show, and HBO was just breaking open at the time. The Sopranos was on, Sex and the City, Entourage, you know, all these incredible shows were coming out, the wire, all at the same time. And it was like a new way of experiencing television. That was a crazy moment in time, all those shows coming out at that time.

There were so many good ones. And it was all in the early 2000s and people were like, holy shit. Those are still like when you look at like top 20 lists, like eight of the ones you just named are still on the list. Yeah, they're still up there. Yeah, absolutely. So six feet under was another great show that was at the time. There were a couple of guys on the show already, Peter Krausa and Michael C. Hall who played Dexter later. And they were on six feet under.

And I just wanted to be on the show. And I auditioned. This was when I was a really struggling actor, just trying to pay the bills. I auditioned for small role after small role and kept not getting cast. And it was so frustrating. I just wanted to be. And I think there's a life lesson here. By the way, you're waiting for it?

Yeah. Buckle up, kids. So I auditioned for like, you know, the flower shop owner. I auditioned for the pizza guy and I auditioned for like, and I remember auditioning for a gay choir member number three. and I didn't get cast as gay choir member number three. I'm like, geez, what do I have to do? I just want to get on the show somehow, just a role on the show.

And as I was leaving the audition, I saw this breakdown of a new character they were introducing named Arthur, who was a mortician's intern and was very young, but was the love interest of the older mom, and it was very kind of naturally odd. And I read the description. I was like, oh my God, I could totally play that. So I went to the casting person.

And I bravely kind of sucked it up. And I went over to her and I was like, hey, do you think that maybe I could audition for this other role? And she's like, I don't know, let me check. And she went and talked to the producer. She's like, yeah, come back in an hour and you can audition for it. Like, here's your pages. So I had like an hour to like get a sandwich and like prepare. But I just like, I know I can do this role.

I know this role is mine. And, you know, I went back. And after two or three auditions, I got it. I ended up doing 13 episodes on the show. And that's what opened the door for the office. So the office didn't come out of nowhere. It really came out of me playing the supporting role on six feet under. And the showrunner of the office, Greg Daniels, had seen me on it and was very interested in me.

And so the life lesson here is like rejection is God's protection. Yeah. Right. Had I gotten to play the pizza guy or gay choir member number three, I never would have gotten to play Arthur and I never would have played Dwight Shrewd. So all that rejection was there for a reason. It was there for a purpose and, you know, opened up a career for me. What was that like getting the call to play such a big role on the office?

Or was it big when you got the call or did you guys not even know if it was going to? Yeah, I mean, we were a little show when we started and NBC didn't know what to do with us. And when our first season, as you know, is six episodes. So that's how much they believed in us. Like, we're going to order six episodes of this weird show. It was a very weird show. At the time, everything was big, bright sitcoms like friends, you know? And we were like, you know, mockumentary and fluorescent lights and bad haircuts and beepers and cubicles.

That's what it was so great about it. The essence of it felt real. Yeah. It's relatable. Yeah. It was like it was. It didn't feel like it was a set. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. So when you start to see the moment. of the office, what does that look like? Was it a long time or did it pick up quick? Well, the first season, we barely stayed on the air. The second season, they ordered like another like six episodes. I mean, it was just the minimum that they could order, very low budgets. Steve Carell had quietly become kind of a movie star during that time because 40-year-old Virgin had come out and Little Miss Sunshine and Anchorman. So he was kind of on his way already.

And then we just got one more episode here, one more episode there. We kind of thought we'd be canceled and do kind of be like a rest of development. Like, oh, we did a season or two of a really funny show. People will eventually discover it, but that's, that's all it's going to be. And then little by little, we just started picking up momentum and the ratings just started going up. I remember back in the day, there was this hotline you could call to find out the ratings, the TV ratings of the night before. if you called after like one o'clock p.m.

And I remember every time, every day, every week at one o'clock, we go, boop, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo. Like, these are your ratings for last night's television. And we'd hear if we went up or down. And we were ticking up. We're like, we're ticking up. You guys were ticking up. And then all of a sudden we got the back nine.

Then we won the Emmy. And then we were just off to the races. Did you, did you always get it? Like, did you always get how funny and amazing. the office was or did it take the public court of opinion to oh no we knew you know oh yeah yeah we knew we knew we were creating something really special and outrageous and unlike kind of anything on tv before how much input i'm sure on a lot but did you have on your character and like presenting the way that dwight presents or was it the right or like did you know like yeah this is the way

i got to do this thing i had a lot of input on it and i at that point remember I remember I had spent 10 years doing theater in New York, so I played lots of different characters. I had spent three or four years in LA doing little crappy little roles on like Law and Order and CSI and other pilots that no one ever saw. Little crazy horror films like House of a Thousand Corpses and stuff like that. So I had a lot of experience playing characters, but I came in with a haircut and the glasses I wanted and the beeper and the little calculator wristwatch. and the kind of the look and feel of Dwight. And, you know, I even, I brought in, I had a meeting with the writers,

and I brought in pictures of my family, because a lot of them were farmers back in the day. And that contributed to Dwight being a farmer. And Greg Daniels' relatives had been farmers, too. So he was really interested in, like, having, like, a socially awkward farmer in the workplace. Like, how does that work? You know, there's some comedic value to that.

So I had a great deal of input. And let's not forget, we had an, an amazing template, which was the British office, which is a brilliant show in its own right. And Mackenzie Crook, who played Gareth on that show, Dwight was a kind of a mirror image of him. So there was so much great stuff that he brought to the table and creating that character as well,

that frankly I stole some of his best bets. Do you have any favorite or favorite episodes or Dwight, when was that you remember them, and like, that was the best version or the best one? You know, I think one of the reasons the office has stayed alive for so long is that it has these little human moments that are maybe just 5, 10, 15% of the show. They're very small percentage of the show, but that's what touches the heart and keeps the audience coming back. And there was an episode called Money where that's the first time they visit Dwight's Airbnb at Shrewd Farms. and he's heartbroken because Angela has left him

because he put her cat in the freezer. And he's sitting on the stairwell with Jim and they have a scene and Jim gives him some advice and like pats him on the shoulder. And Dwight is looking the other way and doesn't know that Jim has left. And then Dwight just, and Paul Lieberstein who played Toby was,

I think wrote it and was directing it, brilliant director. And then Dwight reaches out to put his arm around Jim and Jim is gone. And he didn't know it. And then he kind of fumbles and, like, looks around, like, that was weird. And, like, he would have hugged Jim, but Jim was gone. And, like, that kind of, like, missed connection, like, is this beautiful little human moment that a lesser show would have had Dwight hug Jim to have, like, oh, look, they're hugging.

And then you wouldn't, where do you go from there? Once Dwight has hug Jim, how do you continue to tell stories where they torment each other? You're so right. You're so right. So it's just one little moment that in that moment was kind of the key to the whole show, to the brilliance of the show. It had depth. It wasn't just like, ha-ha laugh comedy story. It was like there was depth and feeling to it.

And you see it and you laugh a little bit like, oh, he missed him. And it's like a ha-ha, but you're also touched and it kind of gets, it plays both. And that's the one where you're like crying, the ghoul and then he opens the door and you're, acting like is that that right yes yeah yeah when you thought about him as a character like what are the personality quirks and traits that you really wanted to bring to the role well i really love the idea of someone who's utterly unselfconscious takes themselves incredibly seriously no matter how ridiculous what they're saying is we all know someone like that we all know we all know taylor We need a camera on Taylor.

So I knew that that would be funny. I always, you know, I'd always beg them to write me more physical comedy, too. I always liked it when Dwight hurt himself or tripped over something or got to do something with some physicality. Because I had studied in theater school, going back to theater school, a lot of, like, clowning. Like, again, learning about comedy. Like, clown is a way to learn about comedy. Not like Ringling Brothers, giant red shoes and big red nose, but, you know, building physical comedy routines. You know, the Italians call them lotsies, you know, and I wanted to do more and more of that.

So I think that was amazing. And then the writers were so great and they gifted Dwight with this incredible love story with Angela, you know. And the Dwight Angela story, I never would have thought to do that. And they brought that to the equation. And, you know, that ran for like, you know, eight of the seasons. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed

online. Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website, engage with your audience, and sell anything from products to content to time, all in one place, all on your own terms. I love Squarespace as a platform so much because it gives you the individual the ability to control your destiny, owning your own content, owning your own platform, whether that's an e-com store, a blog, if you want to sell courses, subscriptions, if you want to build a newsletter. This is so important. One thing about Lauren and I personally is we control the platforms

we distribute our content on. We have our own e-com sites. We have our own newsletters. We have our own RSS feed that produces this very show that you're listening or watching now. And we own the platform. So many creators and entrepreneurs are dependent on third-party social platforms. Here's the problem with that. These are tools that are great to grow, but they're also tools that you do not control. You're at the mercy of their changes, their algorithms, their bans, whatever it may be. With Squarespace, you don't have to do that. Squarespace makes it easy and cost effective to stand up your platform right now. In the early days of the internet, you had to get all these different designers and coders and

platforms and hosting, and it was a total mess, and it was so cost prohibitive. So now you can do it all cost effectively and in one place at Squarespace. So check them out. Go to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, Squarespace.com slash Skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that is Squarespace.com slash skinny. Let's take a quick break to talk about one of our favorite supplements, one of our favorite brands in general, and that is symbiotica. Taking symbiotic supplements is one of the easiest ways I found to stay consistent with my health goals,

even during a busy summer. This weekend, we had to travel to Florida. I had to go to Tampa with Lorne, and then we had to go to Miami. We were seeing friends. We were doing dinners. We were having meetings and we were running around. But here's the biggest problem right now, traveling in this season. everybody is sick, everybody's coughing, everybody's sniffling in the airport, everyone's blowing their nose. It is obscene. It is absurd. And I'm not going to lie, I was nervous to travel because I hate getting sick. I'm the biggest baby. I would rather break my arm than get sick again, Carson. But I didn't have to worry this time because, of course, I had my trusty symbiotic products. Some of the standout favorites that I always travel with, they have this elderberry syrup that comes in these individualized packets that is incredible. They also have this vitamin C packet that I think is the best vitamin C on the market. They also have a liposomal glutathione. This is going to be the master antioxidant for the body. And, of course, they have the essential vitamin D3 and K2 supplement.

These are things that I take without fail every single time I'm traveling. They're things that I'm using constantly in the winter seasons when sicknesses are on the rise and when people have all these viruses. And I take them because I do not like to be sick. And I like to give my body the best fighting chance to fight off any viral disease or illness or sickness or whatever is going around, especially with kids in school. So check them out. You can't go wrong. They have such an incredible slate of products.

Go to symbiotica.com slash TSC today to get 20% off plus free shipping. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com slash T-S-E to get 20% off plus free shipping. All right, tell me if I'm alone here, but shopping used to feel more fun. Before all, the algorithm-fed blah and the inlist sea of dupes. But I have a confession, I've found that fun feeling again on eBay. I love eBay. Because on eBay, it's not just shopping. It's a fashion pursuit. And when you find the real thing, that adrenaline hit is real. So recently,

I decided for Christmas, I wanted to do a bear theme. So I went on and I found different vintage Ralph Lauren Bears from the 80s and the 90s and the early 2000s. And I got some vintage plaid pillows and I did a whole setup downstairs by our gold tinsel Christmas tree. It is so cute. and each of these bears I've found on eBay. You can find St. Laurent's, Stella McCarthy, The Row, Tom Ford, Valentino Versace, they have everything. It's all about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me, and I want you to find pieces that feel like you.

There is always more to discover. eBay has millions of pre-loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay Authenticity Guarantee. eBay, things people love. All right, you can do all the skincare, the workouts, the supplements. But if you don't reprogram your beliefs, nothing changes. The higher self-app is the ritual that makes all the others work. We had the founder on our show, and she basically was saying that you don't need years of therapy to shift your life. You can clear a money block, a weight block,

or even relationship fear in just 20 minutes. They've seen women manifest $2,000 overnight, get engaged within two months of clearing a love block and land dream jobs with massive pay raises. These transformations are insane. She was telling us all about them. So it's not a meditation. It's a subconscious reprogramming backed by science. So you're really changing the way you think. And the Higher Self app is so popular that it's been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, Business Insider, and it holds a 4.9 app store rating. You should also know it's basically 53 cents a day, so it's affordable. And I think it's a good one if you're looking to add something to reprogram your subconscious. I am all about bettering myself. I like to be 1% better every single day. So this app is a real vibe for me. Go to the higherself.com app slash skinny

and get four months free or 30% off the yearly plan. That's literally, like I said, 53 cents a day to reprogram your subconscious and completely upgrade your life. That's the higherself.app slash skinny, the higher self.com slash skinny. We had Oscar on the show. Okay. And he came in and we did a whole accounting bit in here in this office. It was actually pretty funny. Okay. But he was saying like you, you guys over time, it like became like a really tight-knit group, like almost like a family in some ways. Like you guys were with each other so often for so long. Yeah. Yeah. That it's like, And I imagine when that ends, that's got not only from an identity perspective, but also just doing that together for so long, that's got to be kind of challenging.

It was, it was amazing. I remember we had this guest director come on the set once, and we were on season like six or seven or whatever. And it was in the morning. And we were all like hugging, high five. Hey, how was your weekend? And like just getting along laughing, goofing around. And we hadn't been working together for like, at that point, like, a hundred. 30 episodes into the show at that point.

And the director was just like, oh, my God, I've never seen this before. It's like, I've shot on 100 TV shows. I've never seen a cast that loved each other as much as this. That's what he said. Yeah. And then he said, like, you know, I just came from this other show. I won't say what show it was. And, you know, and half the cast wouldn't talk to the other cast and they, the other half

and they wouldn't come out of their trailers unless someone else was there. and there was like all this kind of like, you know, a competition and some people refused to work with other people. And I won't say what show it was. Desperate Housewives. There you go. There's your headline on People magazine, people.com right there. We just had Terry Hatcher on the show.

Uh-oh. I did a thing, I did a theater thing with Terry Hatcher. She's wonderful. Wonderful. She's delightful. We had a great time with her. And a very talented actor. It seems to me, too, like that there was almost like a really,

an energetic vibe of gratitude on the set. It seemed like you guys were so excited, but also at the same time, so grateful to be there. And so it felt like you guys were like really just appreciative. And sometimes on a set, you can feel as a viewer when there's like diva behavior going on. Does that make sense? That totally makes sense.

Yeah. I think us almost getting canceled like three or four times made us like really grateful, like, oh, we get to do this. And every day it was a gift. We get to, are you kidding me? We get to do these incredibly funny scenes. I mean, it wasn't always, sometimes it was grueling and long days and sometimes it was boring because you'd just kind of be in the background of each other's shots all day long, you know? And absolutely, there was, there was, we knew we were, we got to be part of something really special.

When you're in the background, I've never asked an actor at this. When you're in the background of shot for like hours on end, are you, are you sitting there like just pretending to do something or are you actually doing it? Well, one of the things we clamored for was like, get these computers working, please. So you could do something. So we can at least like surf the web and look at like fantasy football scores. Taylor would not be looking at that. He'd be looking at something else. Uh-oh.

Fantasy. Uh-oh. Not football? Different kind of fantasy? Yeah, different kind of fantasy. Oh, HR department. Uh-oh. So did they get the computers working?

They did, yeah. And then everyone's just on the web looking at whatever they want. Part of the problem is they got the computers working and then there was a while when you could play poker online and you could spend actual money. And then they kind of shut that down. I figure you can do it in certain states from like that. Yeah, it's legal in some states, but not. But for a while there, it was floodgates were open.

The floodgates were open for a while and I was on these poker sites with like actual money that I had put in, like being in the background. And then they'd be like, we need a reaction from Dwight on this. And I was like, just give me a minute. I just went all in on this hand. And they're like action. I'm like, and I'd have to, that was, that was not good. So I stopped that.

That was very short-lived. What was it like for you guys to win all these awards and get all this acknowledgement and accolades? Was it as amazing as it looks from an outside perspective? You know, the first rush of going to those first award shows, first couple of like Emmys and Golden Globes and stuff was, was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing.

And especially, I mean, think about it. I'm like, I never made over 17 grand in a year. 10 years doing theater in New York and then cut to like five years later and I'm on an Emmy winning TV show and going to like the Golden Globes with like George Clooney. Like it's, it's,

you're just like, whoa, what the? You know? And it's, it's, it was pretty crazy. Yeah. But it is astonishing and people are going to roll their eyes at home, but it is astonishing at how then it starts to become work, you know. What do you mean? Well, you do two, three, four years of the award shows and, like, you got to get dressed up.

And it takes an hour and a half to get in. And then you're waiting in these long lines. And then you can't get to your table. And you keep losing the award. I lost three Emmys in a row. But you have to be there. You got to be there and be smiling. And like, even if you don't feel like it, and even that starts to become work, going to an award show.

If you lose, like, do you practice your face if you lose in the mirror? You have to sit there with, like, a show. a smile on your face like this? It's the worst. Like, what do you do? Have you seen that clip of, I don't know if it's real.

I don't know if it's, maybe it's real. That clip of Quentin Tarantino when he was, when he was up against Best Director, it was, it was him and then Ben Affleck one, and it pans the Quentin Tertino

who spits out of his water. He was like, and it just stays everywhere. I don't know if it was, he probably planned that or. He was joking or a joke. Do you have to keep like, oh yeah.

Yeah. So you're like, and they, because everyone has a camera on them, you know, and they're like, and the Emmy goes to and I'm like

and inside my heart is going like and the Emmy goes to tearing open the envelope Jeremy Piven and then it's like yeah way to go Jeremy right on bro

right on do you guys really like have no knowledge of who's going to win until that moment yeah no one does nobody knows when you're at the award ceremony was there tons of actors

that are really famous coming up to you guys being like, I love the office. I mean, there had to be like, yeah, I can imagine. That's also got to be crazy. That was amazing. Yeah, that was pretty cool. That's kind of iconic.

Yeah. Ben Affleck was one. He came up to us at the Golden Gloves. Like, love your show, man. Oh my God. I've seen every episode. How do you know what to do when the office ends? Did you have a plan?

Did you want to take a break? Like, what was your energy when it went away? I was just, you know, again, like, it's kind of a hard thing for some people to understand. because they'll see me like on the street and they'll be like, Dwight. It's like, I'm not Dwight. Right. Like I played Dwight.

I get that. For nine and a half years. Yeah. Of a long acting career, tons of roles before Dwight, tons of roles after Dwight. Like, be a little more respectful. Like, I'm the guy who played Dwight, but I'm not actually that. Dwight is a beat farmer in, in Pennsylvania. But a lot of, for a lot of people, they don't quite get that.

And I, and I understand that. And I completely understand. So I just wanted to play other cool roles. That's it. You know, I had enough money. So it wasn't really about like, oh, I need to kind of like chase another show. But, you know, I did a bunch of shows that didn't work out. I did a show on Fox called Backstrom.

That was a detective show. It did 12 episodes. And then we didn't get high enough ratings. And that went away. I did another show on Amazon called Utopia that no one saw because it was a show about a pandemic that came out during a pandemic. Dicey. And that was no fun. And I did a bunch of independent films. I did some bigger films and studio films too. But yeah, I wanted to develop stuff. And at the, you know, at the same time, like, I had this interest in spirituality. So I started a digital media company called SoulPancake.

That was a YouTube channel for a long time. And now Soul Boom. I wrote this book, Soul Boom. We had the Soul Boom podcast. And so, you know, and we did stuff with Oprah and we did stuff on mental health and that's another interest of mine. So I really wanted to also do, make sure I'm spending some of my focus, not just playing wacky characters, but trying to make a difference in having kind of deeper conversations about what it means to be a human being. So there's a lot of my work in the last, you know, 11 years since the office has been in that space. How did you initially become so interested in mental health and the things surrounding all of the, though? Can I swear on this podcast?

because I was really fucked up in my 20s. And I went through a really hard time. And we talked earlier about the artist's way. And the author of the artist's way, Julia Cameron has a quote that's attributed to her. And as soon as I saw it, I was like, that's so brilliant. She said, I come to spirituality, not out of virtue, but out of necessity. And when I was really struggling with mental health stuff and, you know,

anxiety and depression and alienation, loneliness, addiction, especially like in my 20s and early 30s, I turned to spirituality as a salve, as a path forward, because I didn't know where else to turn. I didn't have any money. I couldn't afford therapy. There weren't like podcasts and apps and all of the resources that there are now back in the 90s and early 2000s. So, you know, it was 12-step meetings and reading Buddhism and trying to meditate and pray and find a spiritual path that really helped me out of some really dark times. And I've always had an abiding interest in like, you know, why are we here?

What's the meaning of life? Like what, you know, even when I was a kid, it's like, yeah, but why? Well, we're here. We just enjoy it. And you have consciousness. and there's life. And then you live 80 or 90 years. Why 80 or 90?

Why not 800 or 900? Like, what, where were we before? Where do we go after? Like, these kind of larger questions always were a part of my life. And then when I found a spiritual path, it helped me a lot through some difficult times. And I wanted to share that. So what is something that you have learned that you wish you knew in your 20s that maybe some of the younger listeners, or even listeners that are struggling right now could,

or viewers could benefit from? Oh, my gosh. I guess there's a lot, but there's so much. I think, listen, some really basic stuff that anyone can start with. And people, probably your viewers are already on board with this is meditation and gratitude. So I fitfully tried meditation, but I didn't have an active meditation practice. Like, I have to meditate every morning for me to have a balanced day. I just, maybe other people don't.

I just have to. It's kind of like going to the gym. You never feel like doing it. But then you go and then, you know, 45 minutes later, 14 minutes later, you feel, no, you feel great the rest of the day, right? It stays with you. You know, you feel like in your body and meditation works the same way for me. And gratitude, like learning a gratitude practice. I have a text chain with a bunch of buddies every morning. Just turn your mind out of like what's not going right to what is going right. And it's a tiny. little shift and it doesn't feel like anything. But if you start practicing gratitude and sharing gratitude, you know, my wife and I do this thing. We've kind of, we used to do it back in the day and now we do it. We're starting it up again, which is like three, at the end of the day, three things we are grateful for about the other person, especially being very specific, not like you're so kind or whatever, but like you were really nice when you'd said X, Y, Z. And then one thing that we wish we had done different over the last 24 hours. So you take a little bit of accountability for yourself.

Whoa. Are you going to be able to do that? Because we're going to start tonight. We do a thing called like Rose and Thorn with our kids. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then somebody else said, we go do Rose Thorne and then Rose Bud. Like what the thing that, what is that the thing that's true? It's a thing that, like there's something that bloomed in your day.

Oh, wow. That's cool. We try to do, I mean. But I kind of like what Rain's saying. I think that you and I could start saying three things that we're grateful for about each other. Is that what you said? And then one thing that we could have improved on. And to try and keep it specific, like when you brought me that coffee when I was really stressed out, that was so nice of you to do.

As opposed to like, you're so kind. You're not a big, brought like a specific thing. And then to say, I wish today that I had, and it doesn't have to be about the other. I wish that I could have just breathed more throughout the day because, you know, I wish I wouldn't have looked at my phone so much. I wish that I would have given you a hug, you know, in between podcasts, you know, something like that. But it sounds like also with your gratitude practice, you have invited a group of trusted friends into that. Is that not only for accountability, but I guess also to remind each other. It, and it increases intimacy, too. Because when you say,

like, I'm really grateful for hummingbirds, you, you're let in. to someone's heart. You're led into their experience that they love hummingbirds or they're grateful that their kid came back home from college and, you know, they went surfing or whatever. You learn about people. And we have so many devices and obstacles getting in the way from us connecting and having deeper intimacy and vulnerability. You know, anything we can do to deepen that is crucial. I also think that the practice that you're saying that you do with your wife, that it would be cool to do that in front of your kids, too. Because with my kids, when they hear me talking about my husband in a positive way,

I think that's really healthy. So I even think, like, we should try what he did in front of our kids. I think they would like that. It sounds like, too, like even what you told us about your family. Like, it's important for children to see a loving household and parents. I mean, if they're, if they could see something positive, like that's the relationships they're going to later hopefully seek, right? Yeah.

And so, like, sometimes, you know, a lot of parents, like, go in the room to show that affection, or they go in the room to kind of show the argument. The kid never really understands what the parents are people. To model it. Yeah. One thing I did with our son, Walter, is anytime I struggled, I shared it with him. So I don't want Walter to just see the positive. A good one. So I would go to him and say, hey, Walter, I just want you to know.

Like, I spent a month trying to get. this role on this movie and I auditioned and I met with the director and then I auditioned again and I really wanted it. I thought I was going to get it and I didn't get it and I'm really disappointed right now. And my heart is really sad. I'm really hurting and it was it was really hard and sometimes this business that I'm in really sucks. And just let him witness that and understand that the parents are they're dealing with stuff and and guess what? And then they move on because we get disappointments and we get obstacles. We'll get failures even and we move on.

And that's what builds resilience. So the kids need to see that in the parents. In modeling that in front of them is so important. That's a really, really good point to show what you're struggling with instead of trying to hide it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I like you, love meditation.

I would love to know what your specific practices. Is there a certain amount that you like? Is there someone that you meditate to? Do you just sit with your thoughts? What's your practice? I have the simplest meditation possible. I'll set an alarm for anywhere from like what I feel like for nine to 16 minutes. And I always, I would say always, but 90% of the time I do it outside

because I find it to be much more powerful outside than inside. And I'll sit in the yard and I just close my eyes and attempt to quiet my mind. that's it. Focus on my breath, you know, let my spine be long, have an open heart, have my palms up on my lap. And, you know, for me, it's this kind of shift that happens when I recognize that I am not my thoughts. My thoughts aren't me. I spend a lot of time with my thoughts kind of bouncing around like popcorn or like a pachinko ball, you know, throughout the day. But that's not Rain Wilson. That's just. something that my mind does a lot throughout the day. So when I can detach from my mind and almost kind of like see it from an outside perspective and kind of witness myself thinking and then

witnessing my mind quieting and witnessing myself being in peace, there's this kind of like perspective shift. You know, in Hinduism it talks about like meditation is like letting your thoughts be like a candle in a still room. You know, and the idea that that we, our consciousness can be a still candle, despite all the chaos around us. So I get a taste of that for 15 minutes in the morning. I won't say it stays with me all day, but it greatly helps my day.

I'd love to do it twice a day. I know people that do it morning and then late afternoon or early evening, and that's also a lot of benefit to that. I've been doing this trick to my husband where I pretend like I'm still sleeping, but I'm actually meditating. So he gets up and makes you a coffee then? So he'll go deal with the kids.

We have a bunch of kids, right? But I pretend like I'm to pretend like I'm sleeping, but I'm really just closing my eyes and meditating. It works really good. It's a mom hack. The kids, yeah, it's like five, three and four months. Our mornings are. Oh my gosh. With you, if you have a monkey mind that's chaotic, you're so right, though.

Being still with your own thoughts is it's like a way to like just clear your mind and check yourself almost and it's so helpful throughout the whole day or even just to recognize what you're thinking about constantly and kind of acknowledge that and kind of like you're like oh that's recurring over and over like maybe there's more to that a lot of people say well i can't meditate because my mind is just so busy and crazy and it's like everyone's mind is busy and crazy that's not the point you but you you witness your mind being busy and crazy let it go and even if you just are allowed a few moments of of stillness and quiet. That can be enough to kind of revitalize you. You wrote a workbook, Soul Boom

Workbook. What is in the workbook that people can do to encourage spirituality, especially in such a digital world? Oh, you mean this little thing right here? That little thing that I happen to bring with me. Yep. So I wrote a book called Soul Boom, Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution two years ago. Will you read it? Yep. I love to read. I will read definitely both of them. Do you guys ever listen to like audio books because it's on audio too. Do you read the audiobook? I did. Okay.

Then I can do it. I prefer to read it. You know, the weird narrator. The one that's the weird narrator. I can't, I need it to be like the author. It's got to be the author. I want the book. I'll read the book.

So there's that book. And then this is a companion workbook that's coming out now in November, 2025, whenever you're listening to this. And we wanted this to be like the artist's way for spirituality. We wanted a workbook that can be your job. journal, there's journal entries, there's, there's art, there's, it's interactive, it's about anxiety and mental health. There's a chapter right there. There's beauty, nature, and art. It's finding your soul, finding values, virtues, and morality. It's an exploration of all of these

spiritual themes. Whether you're a born-again Christian, whether you're an atheist, whether you're something in between, we want it to be for everyone. Even if you already have your faith, it can deepen your faith, but for those who are on some kind of spiritual journey, we want the Soul Boom Workbook to be a catalyst for them to kind of explore issues of the soul and meaning and purpose on a larger scale. This to me right now in this second of time is more important than ever because the problem is whenever you feel bored or you don't want to sit with yourself, people are immediately picking up their phones and they're distracting and in you had jonathan height on your show we did i was

listening to his episode that was a great conversation it's so important yeah it's so important it's it's it's a it's a we love talking to him it's alarming in a lot of ways scary but also what i liked about talking to him is and with you too is there there are tools and there is hope to kind of navigate through these and and get back to kind of some of how we maybe were i guess designed to engage on this platform, or in this world, right? Like, and I think there's a lot of escapism going on, and I think some of that escapism is causing stress and anxiety and anger and obviously our attention spans.

And so I think this is really important right now. Yeah, but Lauren, I kind of, I interrupted you. You were talking about this day and age with all the devices, that's something like this, where you kind of slow down and go deeper, and it requires kind of a deeper level of attention. If I didn't have spirituality in my life with everything I do, I don't think I would be able to perform at the level I perform it. I think it's so important. At the same time, it's like I don't want to be preachy to anyone. I'm just saying what's worked for me is being able to sit with myself in the morning. I cannot wait to fill out your workbook. I'm a huge fan of the artist's way. I love the morning pages. If I don't have space to sit with myself and my own thoughts, I don't have a life. And I think that to me why moving to Austin has been so good for me is it's been like it's almost been like it's eliminated a lot of distraction and I've been able to sit with my thoughts and so I'm like

you when I get asked like what's the secret what's the hack it's like meditating and you could have your own version I mean Gabby Bernstein says she meditates for five minutes in the car some people meditate for 20 whatever it looks like just being able to sit still is such an important way in my opinion to spend your time so let's not forget about nature like sometimes people just take a dog walk in the woods or on a path or in a park or something like that and that's its own kind of meditation and you know nature is everything it recharges our batteries it reminds us about god it reminds us about what's important and where where beauty lies and you know this fragile ecosystem that we have to take care of and tend you know with a great deal of of attention so there's

You know, throughout the book, too, we try and like always bring, you know, nature and getting back in touch with nature as a way, as a remedy for what you're, all the distraction you're talking about. Can you give the audience a tool that's from your workbook that they could do tomorrow? Maybe your favorite? Something that they could do in the morning when they wake up. Here's a great one. We have two ways to use your phones. that have spiritual underpinnings. One is a sacred photo swap.

So taking a photo of something that is sacred to you. Because I love that word sacred. Like we think about sacred like, oh, as a church or a cathedral or a mosque or a synagogue or something like that, or maybe it's a battlefield or Gettysburg or something. But there can be a sacred tree, you know, or a place where you got married.

or a brook that you stand by, you know, and remember a loved one or something like that. These places can be sacred to take a photo of something that's sacred to you and send it to someone and ask them to send a photo of something that's sacred to them. So having a sacred photo swap is one. I'm going to start sending you sacred photos, Lauren. It better be of my face. He's going to send you pictures of his butt.

You know, and they're like, this here's sacred. I got your sacred right here. But we have another one similar to this of like beauty alert, you know, and it's the same thing, like something unexpected moments of beauty. You'll be in a parking garage and you'll see like the swirl of the architecture and it'll be like, wow, that's like a stem or a leaf or a shoot of grass. Like, can you take a picture and then send it to your gratitude list or to your loved one of like a beauty alert that you saw? It could be, you know, a dandelion growing through a crack or something like that. So that we start to attune our minds to see what's sacred around us and to see what's beautiful around us and to be able to share that. That's a way to harness the phone for good.

I think that's genius because the more little moments like that that you can be grateful for that are simple, it builds a muscle. Yeah, exactly. And it adds up, just like you said, meditation adds up. So you can only meditate. And gratitude adds up. It adds up. And it sounds like, and it does, it gets you to look at the world in a more positive way. We are wired to see things as threats and dangers and as something of potential sources of unhappiness.

We're wired that way. That's what kept us alive for millennium, you know. Oh, a twig snapped. That could be a bear. It's going to eat my face. Or, oh, I'm stuck in traffic. I'm going to be late. They're not going to like me.

Oh, did you spin out? in your head, like we're wired for anxiety. And the modern world is making it harder and harder and harder to get out from that. And you know, for all my talk, you know, I spent a good deal of my day like overwhelmed, freaked out. So, you know, these tools that can counteract that natural inclination to look for the worst

or look for bad outcomes or to, you know, look for what's wrong, broken or where potential threats are. We have to hone those habits. You do them enough times. They become habitual. Let me give you a hot take. The perfect holiday gift is found on the Real Real.

Seriously, I found the most beautiful gifts for both my sisters on The Real Real. They have every single luxury resale item you can possibly think of. The Real Real really has a thought of everything. Not only do I sell my clothes on there, I also find pieces. And like I said, the holidays, I go to the Real Real. If you're unfamiliar with The Real Real Real, it's the most trusted name and authenticated luxury resale. And it's my source for finding real gifts for special people in my life. I don't like when a gift doesn't lack depth. I want it to be thoughtful and purposeful. And this is a really great way to have a gift feel like you really thought about it. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I don't like. I want it to be thoughtful. I want it. I want it. I someone. Real gifts are exciting to give because you know what they'll be truly loved. And sometimes the best gifts are the ones you give yourself. Seriously, I have found the best Hermes Vest on the Real Real. I've also found a baby blue product coin purse, even a row trench. They have truly everything. So if you're looking to shop smart because you get up to 90% off retail, go to the Real Real. The Real Real is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale.

With thousands of pre-loved luxury arrivals daily, no one does resell like The Real Real Real. And no one makes the holiday shine brighter than The Real Real Real. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreel.com slash skinny. That's thereel.com slash skinny to get $25 off. Start shopping now at the realreel.com slash skinny. Did you know that you can save up to 70% off on the best brands this holiday season just by shopping at fromreble.com? So they have toys. They have espresso machines.

They have all the brands that you want. They have an espresso, kitchen aid, lay crusay, all of them. And I know this because I've been shopping on their site. So how it works is every single day, Rebel drops thousands of new products on the site for up to 70% off. It's like a constant stream of amazing deals, like the ones I just mentioned. There's so many different brands, but you have to add it to your cart before it's gone because it might not be there tomorrow. So what I recently did is I went on and I got my sister some caraway pots. I got my girlfriend a kitchen aide. I shopped with Lalo, which is this baby site that has the best baby stuff. You can really get everything that you're looking for. So whether you're checking off your gift list, upgrading your home for

holiday hosting or just treating yourself, Rebel has it for way less, up to 70% off. This is some holiday cheer, which we love. Check off your list with some serious savings at fromrebel.com. That's from rebel.com. This episode is brought to you by Neiman Marcus. When I think of holiday shopping at department stores for the most exceptional gifts, I think of Neiman Marcus. And I'm sure you do too. There's something truly special about the store and there's something truly special for everyone. They have everything from Botega Vanetta's new it bag to gourmet goodies to elegant timepieces, stunning jewelry, ultimate stocking stuffers, and those gorgeous coffee table books. I also love their beauty section.

I could get lost in there from their perfumes to their lip liners, to their skin care. They really have thought of everything. If you have a friend who's impossible to shop for or a family member, Neiman Marcus has you covered because they have holiday gift guide. They also have a legendary fantasy gift, which is a one-of-a-kind item that surpasses every expectation. And if you need a little help, like sometimes we all do, Neiman Marcus style advisors make finding the perfect gift at every price point completely effortless. Everything at Neiman Marcus is just streamlined for you.

I have been a fan of the department store since I was a little girl. I shop online a lot with Neiman Marcus. They have me covered. categorized and streamlined, they make everything so simple. I just like to do a big order. If you're looking for gifts that are guaranteed to surprise and delight, head to Neiman Marcus. Do you guys hear that? That's fresh. New skinny, confidential drop. Okay, this has been something that I have been working on for the last year. Introducing face towels. Your skincare routine has been reimagined once again. There is no more using butthole towels on your face. There is no more using

the towel that your boyfriend is used on his balls. You are going to be using the cleanest face towel on your face with no formaldehyde, no inks, no fragrances, no dyes, no BPA. Our towels are so thoughtfully designed. They're vegan, they're cruelty-free because your skin deserves the best. I a long time ago wrote a blog post about how a lot of people are washing their face and then they're drying their face with the same towels that they're using on their body. Or they're using a towel that maybe has a bunch of, I don't know, detergent in it. So I wanted to create something that was fresh to remove your makeup, to remove your oil without irritation. I wanted it to be buttery soft. I wanted it to be 100% sustainable bamboo, silky soft. You never have to worry about build up with

these towels. It's just like a breath of fresh air for your face. So how I use them is two ways. The first way is I will cleanse my skin with an oil cleanser and then I'll exfoliate it. And I'll do this in the shower or in my sink. And then if I get out of the shower or I'm done with my sink, I'll take my towel and I'll pat it across my face and my neck to dry my skin off. My skin feels so much cleaner doing it with a facial towel than using some random towel that who knows where it's been. So if you want to support a healthy skin barrier and you want something really sensitive, especially If you have acne or you have hyperpigmentation, this has a really gentle texture. It's absolutely beautiful.

I'm such a fan. I've been using them for a long time. I know you guys have maybe seen them in my Instagram stories. Each box includes 50 disposable face towels. And like I said, they're made from 100% sustainable bamboo. This is the travel size. It's like a little box that you can throw in your makeup bag. And then we also have the one that can sit on your vanity.

It's a box that you want out. It's so cute. It's baby pink. And I should tell you, the towels are shaped like a doily. So that's fun too. Go to shop skinnyconfidential.com to grab your face towels today. It seems like you're really lit up and excited about this. Like you can feel the energy of you being so excited about it, which I think is cool.

I could tell. I could tell. Yeah. It's almost, it's like what you, it seems like office, same thing. You had such a passion for your acting and everything. But it seems like this is almost like a. new era for you. That's like, really exciting. And I think the world is in dire need of this. Well, you're so kind of. And I don't say that in a self-righteous way, because I'm in dire need of it,

too. I'm just saying, like, it's, it is so important. We're so caught up and scrolling and worried about what other people are thinking. But also, let's not, let's not forget how broken, like our political system is right now. Yes. And how just clips of you recently talking about it, I wanted to bring yourself. And how disunified it is. So what is a unifier between the political left and political right? Like gratitude and what's sacred and what's beautiful and what we appreciate and connecting heart to heart with people.

You know, the internet does not underline that. So we have to really lean into that, getting to know our neighbors, building community at the grassroots. You're absolutely right. This is stuff that's really turning me out. to play kooky characters for the rest of my life. And I hope I get to getting to have conversations like we're having now is, you know,

we do that on the Soul Boom podcast as well. Like it, I get so jazzed about it. You've done this publicly, but I'm also curious privately. When you have people in your life that come to you and they're highlighting the negative and how terrible things are and the reason things should be, like, how do you kind of walk them back to a place of gratitude and get them to kind of see the world in a more positive light.

What do you say to them specifically? That's a great question. I don't have an answer for that. I don't know what to say to people. We have to look for that precious point of unity that unites us because everything in the world wants us disunited. You know, Jonathan Haidt talks about this all the time, but what gets us to click on our phones is outrage.

So you have these media companies, and you have Facebook and meta, Google, you know, TikTok and and and and and and all the news companies and entertainment companies, you know, what what is outrageous and is outrageous gets us. And the more we click, the more ads they sell. So they're in the business of outrage and they're winning. You know, so if you find yourself outraged a lot and there are things to get outraged about. Don't don't get wrong. There are great injustices in the world that we need to deal with. But if you find yourself living in outrage, you have to think about like they're winning, you know? The phones are winning. The algorithms are winning. The news media is winning. The social media is winning. Politics is

winning because partisan politics wants us feeling the same way. It wants us outraged at the other, the enemy at that person who's wrong on the other side. There was a congressman or a senator. I didn't, I didn't catch the whole thing from Tennessee. Maybe people can look it up. And he was talking about how years ago, you know, left or right, they'd fight like cats and dogs, but then like someone's mother would pass away. And either left right, they'd call and say,

I'm so sorry, and they'd cry together at the funeral. They'd still came together. Or like, they'd fight and cats and dogs disagree vehemently. But then they would come together later and be like, okay, we're going to the picnic this weekend. And he says, unfortunately, we've lost a lot of that. But now because of the attention, some of this polarization gets,

in the business of that polarization, his worry is like, I don't know if it ever gets back to that because the business, to your point, from a lot of these companies, and Scott Galloway talks about this all the time, of the polarization and the inflammatory content that's out there makes money and it gets us to click, click, click more and more. So he was like, I don't know if we're ever going to get back to that place. I think it'll get back there if people demand that it gets back there. And if they elect people that are good, common sense, decent people and loving people that want to build bridges and actually be public servants. So if we're electing people that don't fuel outrage but are actually serving the interest of their constituents, you know, they'll listen.

Politics will listen. But it's the constituents are going to drive that conversation. I'm going to give you a weird example. Okay. And what alarms me about some of this. I'm going to use a housewives franchise reference. Here we go. So these franchises over the years like the energy, the fights, the whatever, it gets amped up every year, right? And so new people come on the show. And if you're a new cast member, it's like, well, how do I stand out?

I got to come in in an absurd way and create a lot of rage and collateral fights and drama because that's what gets attention. I worry that that's happening now in politics, right? you're getting people that are representing us both sides that know some of that polarization and absurdity is going to get them the most airtime, which is then going to get them the most attention, which is then going to get them in their world more power. And I think that like many of these people have figured out how to do that. And unfortunately, I worry that it's it's the less rational people in that world than, you know,

maybe the more moderate middle where we all kind of like more identify. And so it's like, it's almost like rewarded if you, yes, if you're acting in absurdity or anger or polarization. Same way in these reality shows. You'll get more news items. You'll get more outrage. You'll get more clicks, even if you are on the extreme right or the extreme. Because if I came into one of these houseways, franchise, like, hey, I just want to be friends with everyone. I don't want any drama.

I just want to kind of play. They'd be like, you're off the show, buddy. Like they want, they want that night fear that that is now playing out in our political system. I think though it starts with self accountability, turning off the news and instead choosing to spend 20 minutes with your own. thoughts, putting down the phone and instead consuming all this negative content. I think there has to be some kind of self-accountability that you have for yourself, which is why I think this workbook's so important. Because you're in charge, in my opinion, of what you see. If I want to put my phone down and put it on airplane mode for five hours before I go to bed, I can do that. Yeah. I don't have to let it

enter my space. Right. So I think there has to also be some type of self-audit. Or our friend Gary V will say, like, listen, my algorithm is like baseball carts and garage sales and like wine and like your algorithm is telling you something about yourself. It's telling you who you are. It's a reflection. It's like it's true. If you get on there and it's just people screaming. It's like looking in a creek. Taylor, what if you open his? It's just like. Buttholes. Well shaped. Porking. Helfily shaped. Oh my God. Gladly dressed women. Cladly. Pull your algorithm. When I pulled up your, because I wanted to like prove a point about about Taylor's algorithm, it is literally all ass. Like, that is all it is. I recently rigged my phone

to be a dumb phone. So using the screen time on my iPhone, I gave someone else a screen time password. I don't even know my screen time password. Okay. I don't have an app store. Okay. I took off email off my phone. Good for you. So, because I was talking to this guy and he had a flip phone. I was like, I'm not ready to do a flip phone. But he's like, just because you get an email, that means you got to answer it. You're answerable to just all these people that want something from you. And he's right. Like, I'll sit down and look at my emails when I damn well, please, on my laptop later.

And I'll spend 15 minutes or half an hour or whatever responding to emails. And then I'm done. I don't want you to be able to kind of get your hooks in me all day long. And I took off social media. I took off all games. took off the YouTube app. I still look at my phone way too much just with texting. I took off news. I just left one or two news items so I can just get news updates. Which are the one or two that you left? Like, I don't want to say because then you can't say anything because everyone's everyone's

going to assume. Well, I'm just wondering if it's hold on. No, because if I say Fox News, people will be like, oh, that's who he is. And if I say CNN or MSNBC, we're like, oh, that's who he is. Like, so I literally can't. say what new sites are on my phone, but I try and get news from reliable sources and not biased sources off as hard as that is. It's true social, isn't it? It's true social. I do it off social media. So I still can get, I can get podcasts and I have, you know, Google Maps and I can, people can text me and that's called protecting your peace. I hope everyone does that, except anyone that works here at your media. Keep that email on lock. No, I think that when someone

comes into your text message or your inbox and expects a response that is being reactive. If I don't want to respond to text, I'm at the point. If I don't want to respond to a text, I'm not responding. Lauren, you're absurd though. You've had the same auto responder of email saying you're working on a project. It's been the same one for six years. Six years. I have an auto responder.

So I thank you so much for reaching out. I'm working on creative. I'm sorry. I don't want to live in my inbox. And then she will respond to an email chain three months later. What do we got to do here? We solve this three months ago. Sometimes I'll text like three months later.

Listen, I think though, I have to live in the moment. More absurd actually than email is the text because the email everyone, there's like a little bit of an understanding that it'll take time to get to, but text people want. They want it right away and it's and I find that actually harder to keep up with

because with email you can kind of categorize. I wish there's an auto responder for text. Thank you so much for reaching out. Text is hard especially now. I'm busy living my life with these spam accounts that get in. It's like it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I'm very. You have a beautiful watch. But you're wearing it on the wrong wrist. It's driving me crazy. Why is that not on your left wrist? It drives me crazy. Because I'm left-handed and I know they make watches like Rolex will make one

for the left-hand so you can wear it. But it's a when you're left-handed, I got you. You don't have to say anymore. And you can't write. But if you're right-handed, I'm going to punch you. I'm sick of this left-handed excuse. Every single time we sit down at the restaurant, we have to sit in certain places. I'm over this narrative. I read a statistic. I don't know if it's true that left-handed people die earlier because- Dad, stop fighting. The world is designed for, I'm grateful. Right handers, the doors, the way they also dinner. No, nobody wants to sit next to a left hander at dinner because right and left

we're banging elbows the whole time. So I go to the left. I've never noticed once. I've never noticed. That's because I will sit to the left. Okay. All right. You never get banged on the elbow.

But yeah, that's why. And I know, like, it is annoying because these, like, the pushers or whatever are supposed to be on the other side. They're designed that way, but I have to. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah. But thank you.

Sacrifices we make. Anyway, sorry. No, I love it. Looking ahead, going ahead, what kind of legacy do you hope that all of the work that you're doing right now leaves behind? Well, one of the things I talked about in Soul Boom is that we've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater. What does that mean? So a lot of folks have jettisoned religion over the last 30 or 40 years, right? In our generation, I'm a little older than you, but my generation and your generation and younger generations.

Stop going to church, stop going to organize religion. And in the doing, in getting rid of that, because there's, you know, religions have done a lot of bad in the world. Yeah. You know, and there's a lot of good reasons why people have left their church or their mosque or their synagogue. And but there are spiritual truths that we've also jettisoned. That's the spiritual baby we've thrown out with the religious bathwater. Like the, like, you know, getting back to compassion, building community, the importance of family. family, finding what's sacred, the stuff that we've been talking about, like, you know,

understanding that we're here, we have a purpose. There is what they call psychologists now called, this is the saddest thing you're ever going to hear, call a hope deficit. Young people have a hope deficit. They don't believe that change is possible. They don't believe that there is hope in the future with climate change, with political division, with mental health epidemic. And so we, We can, you know, spirituality teaches us that there's something larger than ourselves, that we have souls that are on an eternal journey, that we're here for a brief amount of time, and that we can be of service to others and bring joy to others. And these are tools that we can use that gives our life meaning and purpose. And you have a generation that is unmoored from meaning and purpose. So these spiritual tools in Soul Boom and in the Soul Boom workbook, I think they're just crucial for our personal development, but they're crucial also for the bonds that we create and the connections that we make, the community that we make.

And it's not just an airy, fairy, oh, it feels good and oh, kumbaya, we should hug more. Like they're very specific tools to make your life better and make your family better and your community better. And we need it now more than ever. This isn't about like convincing anyone to be a part of any church, although organized religion has a lot to offer. And I'm not saying don't be a part of any church. I'm a member of the Baha'i faith. And that's very important to me and has brought me a lot of purpose and meaning and focus.

But these tools we've kind of jettisoned and we need to get back to them. It's funny because as you're saying this, I'm thinking what I want to instill in my children. And I think one of the number one things is a spiritual practice. I think that's really, really important. And you're, especially when it comes to hope. Do you pray with your family? I don't. I don't pray.

But I meditate every single day with my kids in the morning. And why don't you pray? I pray for my family. I pray. I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not religious. I wouldn't describe myself. You don't have to be religious to pray. I pray in my head.

But I don't pray with my family. I'd be open to that. Yeah, that might be, first of all, meditation is more powerful when you do it in a group and more effective. As weird as that sound, we're all kind of like connected. And when you sit in a circle

with a group of people that've done brain scans, meditation goes deeper, lasts longer, and is more effective in a group. So you can try meditation. I know you have a four-month-old. No, the four-month-old loves it. By the way,

but meditating with a four-month-old, when they're calm is one of the most calming things. Oh my God. It's so energetic. It's like a little. Like I did it this morning with them. It's amazing. So Anne Lamont, the great theologian thinker, writer, humorist.

She has a book called that I love called Help. Thanks. Wow. And it's the three kinds of prayers. Help. Like God help me. Something, you know, creator, spirit, source. Love, universe, beauty, science, art, whatever you want to call it.

you know, help me. I'm struggling. Please help. Thanks. It's like to the universe. Thank you for this incredible conversation and getting to meet two incredibly well quaffed new podcast friends. Thank you, universe. And wow, which is like, look at the stars. Wow. Is that, is that, the willow tree. Look at, look at all these butterflies. You can share that with your kids. Is that, would you, is that praying to you? Yeah. Huh. I'm, that's amazing. Yeah, it doesn't have to be our father, thou in heaven, hallowed be thy name, which is a beautiful prayer, but it can be connecting on those three levels. I love that. Share that with your children, you know.

Hey, look at these beautiful butterflies. Where do you think they came from? The creative source that made all of this incredible beauty and love and nature and science and art and music. And thank you for that. Let's just open our hearts to that for a few minutes. It wasn't on my bingo card for really. reign to encourage me and to inspire me to pray with the family. Well, listen, I'm very...

I love this. This is amazing. Dwight Shrut got you to pray. No, and I was thinking again... And got you laid. Bringing it full circle. Dwight Shrewt got me laid and got me spiritual. But I mean, life is...

I mean, listen, meaning this, I'm very grateful to you, one, for coming on this show and doing this with us, entertaining us, making us laugh, early days of our relationship, but also for helping us think in a deep... in a deeper and different way about a lot of it. I think what you're doing is really important. And I think more of it is needed. So thank you for doing this. You guys are awesome.

You're so good at this. You're so genuine. Well, gee. There's not like a fake bone in your body. Both of you just like the most. They are so genuine. Like what you see where you get. I love that.

You have good hearts. Well, I mean, funny. I mean, we like. Incredible hair. It's very nice. I wish you could see their hair. It's just incredible. The collagen quotient in this room is off the charts.

No bullshit. We started this show, and I tell the audience all the time. We've been doing it a long time, but we started it because we were, and still are, trying to figure out the answers to life, right? And we want to meet interesting people that can help us along. And so the benefit we have is we get to meet so many different kinds of people, the Jonathan Heights, the world, all the people. The yak farmers.

The yak farmers. Yeah. But you, you, it's, I think at the core of it, It is like, you know, we get to maybe learn the lesson before it airs, right? But we're learning at the same. Like, the message here is just as relevant to us as it is to the audience we're trying to present for. So in a selfish way, we're doing it, but also the benefit of a few people listening here and there. You guys are so sweet.

Thank you. Thanks for the kind words. Everyone go by your book, Soul Boom, but also get the Soul Boom workbook. Out now or out soon. I don't know when this is a relation. No, we're going to make sure it's, it's where you could say out now because we're going to make sure it adds right up. Or at least for pre-order, though, we'll get it all. By the way, I just want to tell you that if I had heard this podcast and heard you speak,

and I'll say this on air, I would be running to buy this book. Like, I think this is amazing. Wow. That's incredible. I have an idea for you. I'm just going to throw it out there. Okay. Can the next one be for kids?

Oh, that's good. I know. I know. Oh, I did it with a co-author, my good friend Shabna Mugara Bee. when we do a bunch of work together I'm going to call her as I'm walking out we like we need a slow boom kids

our kids do these workbooks now and they and they we get them and they and I think because my daughter's journaling every morning she's five years old like what if I could give her

something that would light her up spiritually at a young age what if you could start it before we go through all of the you know what I mean like I got to clean up a lot of shit from my earlier from my earlier years

it would have been nice if I could have had a little more gratitude when I was like between that five and 25 range I would love one for kids. Hey, get a kid exercising gratitude at age five and they're going to have a much richer life. Right? Yeah.

Okay. So please, if the next time you come on the show or you can come on any time, but the next time I would love to talk to you about kids specifically. Right. To be preventative instead of having to be reactive. Thank you, Rain. Where can everyone find you? Where can everyone find you in your book?

Available everywhere. Yeah, go to Soul Boom podcast, the Soul Boom book, Soul Boom workbook, at Soul Boom on all the social medias and substack. Don't email him. He won't respond. Do not email me, please. Don't email me, please. Don't email me.

If you want to email me, you can email Michael. I want to delete my email app. Rain, thank you for inspiring us for coming on. Your amazing comeback anytime. Really? Anytime. You guys are the best. I am your new biggest fan.

I am going to go watch that episode of the stairs. Yeah, it's called Money. Check it out. Good name too for the episode. Thanks, guys.