The Bossticks - RHONJ's Jackie Goldschneider On Healing Anorexia, Trauma, & Turning Struggles Intro Strengths

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

#633: Today, we're sitting down with Jackie Goldschneider, an American TV personality known for her role in Season 11 of 'The Real Housewives of New Jersey.' Jackie joins us to discuss her struggle with anorexia and how that has impacted her life and daily experiences. She delves into her general experience with an eating disorder (ED), how her time on RHONJ has affected her struggle with anorexia, and why she's so public about her journey. She also shares insights into what helped her recover, what it's like to have an ED while being a TV personality, and how she gained her self-worth after years of struggle. To connect with Jackie Goldschneider click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Thrive Market Thrive Market is the go-to for all of your grocery and household essentials- and it's all conveniently delivered to your doorstep. Get 30% off your first order, plus a free $60 gift at thrivemarket.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Wella Wella Professionals just released its most luxurious hair care line; Ultimate Repair. You can purchase The Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Ulta stores, or Amazon.com. This episode is brought to you by WeightWatchers WeightWatchers is the #1 doctor recommended weight-management program and the trusted authority in evidence based weight-health. Visit ww.com/tsc to see if you qualify, and if you do, use code TSC25 to get one free month plus $25 off your second month. This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with fresh food. Get 50% off your first box & free shipping by going to thefarmersdog.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Butterbrush, specifically. If you have not tried dry brushing, you are missing out. It is the best part of my day, especially as a busy mom. So what I do is I wake up, I'll meditate if I have time and my kids are asleep and I'll go in my bathroom. And for two minutes, I will brush up under the heart and down over the heart and circular on

my stomach for two strange. minutes and then I will hop in a freezing cold shower. And the mix of these two things is like three shots of espresso. It is the best way to start your day. I am telling you. And butterbrush is so special to me. It's actually my favorite tool in the line. It's been something that I've wanted to create forever. It exfoliates, buffs off dead skin and rejuvenates your skin. It's like a whole skincare situation for your body. I'm absolutely obsessed with how butterbrush looks. It can hang from a hook in your bathroom so it doesn't get moldy. It's silicone, easy to clean, and has all natural bristles. You can shop butterbrush now on shop skinnyconfidential.com. That's shop skinny

confidential. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. You know, I had really, really broken self-esteem. I always thought if I get skinny, then I'll be happy. If I get long blonde hair, then people like me.

And if I marry someone who loves me, then I'll be happy. And, like, nothing was changing it for me. And it was just another cog in the wheel. You know, it was like, if I go on a reality show and I get famous, then people will like me. And then, you know, a few years into that, I was like, well, I'm still sick. You know, so like nothing was doing it. But I really did. I was always looking for what was going to make me feel good about myself. Jackie Goldschneider is on the show today. You may recognize her from the Real Housewives of New Jersey. You know I do. I love the Real Housewives. She was absolutely amazing on that show. But recently she wrote a book. And the book was one of the

raust, realist, open discussions I've ever read about a struggle with anorexia. I've never read anything that was more vulnerable about an eating disorder than this. It was wild. She talks about how anorexia impacted her life and her daily experiences. She is thriving now, and she's been really public with her journey of how she's gotten to this place where she feels self-worth. In this episode, we talk about her experiences with an eating disorder, how things changed when she had children, the BTS of Real Housewives, her struggle with never feeling good

enough, how she healed from an eating disorder, her experience with fame, how to maintain a strong marriage, how to pivot, and how to have a long game of recovery. I really enjoyed this episode. She is just as open on the podcast as she is in the book. On that note, let's welcome. Jackie to the show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Jackie, I was saying that, you know, you asked about the house.

I don't think it works out for the husbands. I like this environment where I control it. I know what's getting released. It's not, if I don't want it out, it doesn't go out. Yeah. You know, it's just a little different. Yes. Do you think it works out for the men?

You know, some men come out unscathed, but they're the ones that don't, aren't really as popular. Yeah. You know, so it depends. If you want to be a big personality and be known. I don't think I have it in me to be the wallflower. So I think with that, I'm not going to do very well because I'll be too out there. You know what? You say like you're going to be quiet and you're going to just be respectful and then you get two drinks in you.

And then all of a sudden, like you're doing shots off of like a blowup doll and it all goes down. Yeah, I've never said that I've described myself as quiet and respectful as the first two. You would not like though if someone was mean to me. You would not be able to take that and shut your mouth. You say that you would just be quiet and like blend. You would not. No, and listen, I am a viewer. Okay, I watch the watch.

And at times, I feel like people have been visceral to you. And I don't think that I could, yeah, to Lauren's point, like I don't think I would have the temperament to deal with that. Evan doesn't really get involved with the girl fights. Because then look, then all of a sudden, the next year, your friends. When also, look, it's like, it's hard a man getting involved in the ladies' fights.

They do, though. It doesn't look. They do. Evan, if you're listening, I think you've done a really good job. I think he's done a great job. He's done a good job. He's balanced. Yeah. Okay.

I read your book. I highlighted. I read it on my candle. You guys all have to go by it. It's very, very raw, real, vulnerable. And also very, and I told you this off air, detailed specific to what you were going through. It felt like you really laid it all on the table.

I think the best place to start is your childhood because the childhood, to me, tell me if I'm wrong, set up the eating disorder. Like it almost like it because of how your childhood was, I can see how you developed an eating disorder. When you look back, do you feel like that? You know, my younger years when I was in Staten Island and I was surrounded by friends, I could see that it was set up because of the food as love element of it where my mom would overfeed us. But it was really when I look back, it was really my teenage years. That was all the trauma where I got all the mixed messaging. You know, it all coincided where, like, I was heavy and the doctor took the most vulnerable

thing to me, which was I hated being left out. I still do. And I was left out of everything as a teenager. And he said to me, you're never going to enjoy your life. Like, he said, you're never going to have fun in college if you go to college fat. And to me, what I heard was you're never going to enjoy your life if you're heavy. So it was more my teenage years that I look back on as what formed the eating disorder, but I agree it was probably the foundation was being laid in the early years with the overeating. And when I say childhood, I think I also mean your teenage years, like a lot of interactions at school and bullying. Yes, it was definitely then. Not like not just your parents. I think like the school environment sounded like it was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah.

I mean, people were, I moved there, my freshman year of high school, I came in not, you know, I wasn't like a good-looking kid. I mean, I had a pretty face, but I was not, I didn't know anything about anything. I was with my brother. We were the same grade, and my brother was disabled, and people were just, you know, we were the new kids, and they were just brutal, brutal to us. What was the main reason that they decided to target both of you? I think we were new, so we had no friends, so it wasn't like we had any backup.

Unfortunately, it's easy to target a disabled kid. And I was not like a chic kid. You know, I had like big bushy hair. I was a little chubby. I wasn't a good dresser. I think it was easy. You know, the two of us together, it was just easy. How did your parents, like, help you guys go through this?

When you came home from school, would you tell them? No, I didn't tell them. Because I felt like they had a lot on their plate already. They spent a lot of time. You know, my dad was... always my brother was like the first priority in his life. And I was also obviously his priority. My dad and I have a great relationship. And I always know that my parents loved me so much. But my brother had a lot that he needed. And my parents worked full time. And, you know, we had

other issues in our family. And so I didn't want to put that on them. So I'm not going to come home and cry to them about, you know, feeling like I had no friends. So I just did my own thing. And what about your mom at this point? Like you mentioned that she was working a lot. lot. When I read that, I work a lot. And so that resonated with me. Looking back, are you, are you like, oh, that was really great. My mom worked a lot. It caused me to be independent. Or do you wish she was home more? I think when I was a kid, I wish that she was around more. But now I see the value in, I mean, I had a very financially secure childhood. Even now, like, I won't pretend that it hasn't contributed to my financial security. Even though

I work, I don't take anything from my parents. But, you know, I mean, they paid for college. paid for law school. You know, they had they had money growing up and and I don't discount the value of that. You know, so I liked seeing, I liked having a mom who was like a powerhouse. You know, it's interesting from a different perspective. I grew up both my parents worked. My mom worked really late all the time. It still does a lot now. But I think in a strange way, it has made me attracted to a different kind of woman like a maybe, how do I say this? like Lauren is a very strong woman and in our marriage it has not been strange for her to work and have her own thing and be, you know, very successful. Like I'm very secure with that in a woman

because that was what I viewed. And the only reason I mentioned this is I have sometimes some of my male friends whose girlfriends or wives have their own thing, their own career, get like a little bit flustered if they didn't have that same example. Do you know what I'm saying here? No, I've seen it too. Yeah. They like they don't like for me like the more successful she is. I'm a big cheerleader for like, good, great. It doesn't, it doesn't do anything to my ego. I'm very happy for her. Right. That's not every man. Yeah, I've seen a lot of guys sometimes get threatened by either your success or her success. I just think it's interesting. I think the reason is because I saw my mom work a lot. Right. Yeah, I would agree with that. When you look back on on everything

you went through, talk to us about when the doctor and you had that conversation because that was a moment in your book where like you just mentioned earlier, a switch flipped. Yeah, everything. Everything changed with that conversation. At this point in time, what exactly does that look like? Like, from a food perspective, like, what are you, what are you? Back then? Yeah. It was about like five bread exchanges a day. What is this? An exchange mean? An exchange is like a serving, and a serving is like maybe 70 calories worth of bread, you know, a piece of light bread. You know, it's not a lot of food. There was a few milks, which is dairy, you know, like a yogurt. There's a few proteins is a few breads, a few carbs. And then there's like bonus calories, which are like

so minimal. And so you, you try to gain the system and try to get as much food as you can with the lowest points. So it's basically, for me at least, it was like you try to, no matter what the nutritional value of it was or how it tasted or whether you liked it or not, you just just ate so that you could eat the most quantity for the least number of points. So food, food became, it lost all of its value as something that you enjoy. It lost, it just became a mathematical calculation to me. When I read your book, I told you off air too. It felt like I was with you like in the kitchen. Like you feel like you're seeing. And to me, it felt like you meet this amazing guy, Evan, who you fall in love with, but you're almost in a relationship with a third

person, which is the anorexia. Like, it felt like it's like even when you're on a date, you felt you said you couldn't even enjoy it. Oh yeah, it was my first priority. My first priority in life, until I had children, my first priority was maintaining my weight. And then after I had children, it was my children and then maintaining my weight. Did Evan feel that energy when he was in it? Or does he now look back and he sees it. 24 hours a day. My eating disorder was fully present. And I say, like, I thought that I was keeping it kind of hidden from everyone because

I did try to hide it as best I could, but I really did flaunt it. I mean, I would, you know, count my calories on the Post-it notes all over the place. I didn't care in my family who saw me do it. Outside of my family, no one ever saw me do it. But inside my house, I did it. I was always writing down my calories. My refrigerator was filled with foods with no nutritional content. I hardly ever ate with my family.

My freezer was filled with foods that were not meant to be frozen because I used to freeze all my food. So they would take me a really long time to eat. He's someone that I feel like needs a bigger explanation than me of this because his relationship with food is. You always say this. No, it is. It is. It's given no thought. Yes. Evan as well.

Yeah, it's no thought to it. Like you just, if he wants to eat, he eats, if he doesn't eat it. So I think if you could give more context, if you do in the book, he would, he would understand. He doesn't understand when you say froze your food. Right. I was so scared of eating that if I wanted to, I was afraid of food going away too quickly. So eating for me was not something that I was entitled to do in my life. It was a treat.

It was like an indulgence. So I wanted to make my food last as long as possible. So I would freeze things so that instead of chewing them and swallowing it, I could scrape it. It's like a way of it. I mean, it tasted like garbage. You don't even taste the food. But it was a way of making a meal that should take like a year. that should take like a yogurt.

A yogurt should take you about three minutes to eat if you're eating at a normal pace. It would take me a half an hour because I had to scrape the whole thing. When you look back at you then, did you know at the time that there was a disorder happening or did you not have any clue? I had moments where I was like, this is really bad. Like the moment in Mexico where I was eating the tuna on the toilet. That was towards the beginning of it. I was only, you know, two, three years into it at that point.

It lasted 18 years for me. When you're going through this, and I was just fascinated by how people come to the decision to go on television and you know that this is going on. Yeah. Were you ever worried about sharing your life? Well, when I got on TV, I had already had my eating disorder for 15 years. So I knew how to hide it. I also knew that I didn't look the way I looked at my wedding. So at my wedding, I was absolutely emaciated.

But once I had kids, I couldn't get back down to that week, even though my habits were the same. So I was still very skinny. Sure. But I was not like, you didn't look at me and go, oh, God. You know, because there were other housewives at the time that were also very skinny. So I knew I could hide it. I was concerned when I got the first phone call because I didn't know if they leave cameras at your house because I can't hide it 24-7. But I could certainly hide it if cameras are only.

beyond you for like a scene and then you go home. So I guess what I'm asking is like it sounds like you maybe weren't worried about it. But what is the motivation then to go on TV? I think my entire life up until the past, definitely the past year, I've been in recovery for two years. So I've been in intense therapy for two years. And that changed everything for me. I think my whole life I was chasing this like idea of like how to.

be successful, which was, you know, I had a really, really broken self-esteem. And so I always thought, well, if I get skinny, then I'll, then I'll be happy. If I get long blonde hair, then people like me. And if I marry someone who loves me, then I'll be happy. And like, nothing was changing it for me. And it was just another cog in the wheel. You know, it was like, if I go on a reality show and I get famous, then people will like me. And then, you know, a few years into that, I was like, well, I'm still sick. So, like, nothing was doing it, but I really did. I was always looking for what was going to make me feel good about myself. I think a lot of people feel like you just said, a lot of people feel like that. And I think it's really honest of you

to say that. Yeah. It's like an if, when then. Yeah. And nothing was working. Nothing made me feel good enough. With what you struggled with, I can imagine one of the most daunting things in the world is getting pregnant. It was horrendous. Because with I gained 60 pounds my first pregnancy and that it was horrendous for me. I can only imagine with everything you were going through. It's, yeah. It's really hard. It's hard no matter what. I don't think it's talked about enough. Like, you can simultaneously be so grateful that you have a baby, but also, you know, for me, really, really stressed out about all the weight I had gained. It's, it's a lot. Yeah. With what you were, going through to know getting pregnant, you have to gain weight. And then also you got pregnant

with twins is kind of a mind fuck. Yeah. I mean, the process of even getting pregnant, I was aware that I, and which goes back to your question about, like, I did have these moments throughout where I was like, God, I'm sick. But it wasn't, it wasn't enough to make me want to change because I didn't want to go back to what I was. But when I was trying to get pregnant, and it wasn't working and I went to the fertility clinic, I knew that I caused it myself, which was really hard for me to, you know, I used to just block out all the bad stuff so I could keep going,

but I knew that I did this to myself. So because I lost my, I stopped menstruating, like about a year in. And I just, you know, I knew it. When I was pregnant, I was anorexic while I was pregnant, but I made sure, you know, I go through this in the book, I made sure I went to a nutritionist. And I said, please tell me what the minimum amount that I have to eat with twins is. And she's, you know, she was like, Jackie, you know, you have to, you know, you want to be healthy too and you want to be strong too. And like, all of that stuff just went in one ear and out the other.

It made me angry. You know, I said, just please, just give me a fucking chart. Just give me a chart. And I made sure to eat the minimums on that chart. I don't know if that's why I had four premature children. I don't know if that's why. I didn't allow myself to think about anything bad that I might be doing to anyone else or to myself during those years because I didn't want to stop. One of the best gifts ever for every holiday is sunglasses.

Enter Sunglass Hut. So I recently had the opportunity to go to the Sunglass Hut in Austin and I got to go pick out glasses that I wanted. I found these like evergreen forest glasses by Burberry. They're so major. I love them so much. I'm actually bringing them on a trip that I'm going on. And I just was blown away at their selection. They have so many good brands. Like I'm telling you, they have Prada, Dolcangabana, Versace, Rayban, Oakley, all the things. Michael picked out Raybans for himself. He just loves Raybans for guys. So they really have you covered all the shades of holiday at Sunglass Hut. Available only at Sunglass Hut, I personally would go in.

and just see, you can browse all the gifts in person, and you can even get, like, customized engraving or even a gift card. So head over to SunglassHut and discover the special selection of shades in store and on SunglassHut.com. There's a perfect gift for everyone this holiday. Should also know we just did a gift guide bonus episode where Senglass Hats featured, and it's going up tomorrow. So stay tuned. Head over to your nearest store or go online to Sunglasshut.com and check out their unique selection of shades available only at Sunglass Hut. You're going to love what you find. Visit them in store or online. Sunglass Hut is the destination for all your holiday gifting needs.

AG1. I actually was inspired by Michael to add this to my day. He started doing it because of Andrew Huberman and he just swears by it. He does it every single morning with his coffee. He does a scoop, just like mixes it up with his spoon and swallows it down. I'm someone. who likes to do like crushed nugget ice and then I'll froth it up. I'll put a big scoop of AG1 in my water. I like it cold. I'll drink it down. It's so delicious. I love the way it tastes. I like to drink my AG1 always in the morning with my coffee. And I just feel like it's an amazing way to get prebiotics, probiotics, and digestive enzymes. You get gut support magnesium, B vitamins, all the things in one, even vitamin C and zinc.

And a lot of people are just obsessed with how it makes them feel so energetic and supports their gut. It helps with their stress levels. Again, Andrew Huberman is a huge fan. My husband's a fan. If you're a long-time listener, you know I've been drinking AG1 for probably about a year. I personally felt a surge of energy with my coffee. AG1 is a supplement I trust to provide the support my body needs daily. And that's why they've been a partner of our show for so long.

If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packets with your first purchase. Go to drinkag1.com slash skinny. That's drinkag1.com slash skinny. Check it out. One thing I like to personally do is save you time. And I've been using a thrive market for all my go-to grocery and household essentials forever. Like literally since this podcast started. I even have on my blog, like my favorite thrive market picks. They have the best raw almond butter. They have yum earth snacks, which are like this candy that I give my kids that's like a healthy version of candy. It's super low sugar. They also have non-toxic cleaning supplies, gluten-free snacks, all kinds of things. And you can

go on and just create and curate your own shopping experience. Everything, of course, and here's how I'm going to save you time, is delivered straight to your door. You also save money because as a Thrive Market member, you save on every single grocery order. So you can save like 30% every time. To me, while I love going to the grocery store, I don't always have the time. I'm a mom of two under three. I'm running a business. I'm a wife. I've got a lot going on. So this is such a nice way for me to be able to just go on Thrive Market and get everything I need with the click of a button. Join in on the savings with Thrive Market today and get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift.

Go to Thrivemarket.com slash Skinny. You get 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's T-H-R-I-V-E Market.com slash skinny. Thrivemarket.com slash skinny. And I'm telling you, get the Primal Kitchen ketchup. up. For you to talk about this and be in the position that you're in as a famous person is so incredible. There must be a part of you that feels really liberated to talk about this. Oh, I can't even explain it. I don't know that I would have made such a recovery without writing

this book because I was forced to really examine what pain I might have caused to other people and what I got to take all these traumatic, terrible things that I had in my head for 20 years and make them into something amazing and beautiful that could help other people. But I really did keep everything in my head. I've never in my life. We've interviewed a lot of people, heard someone talk about simultaneously being pregnant and anorexic. And I'm sure that it's not, I'm sure it's not rare. I mean.

I'm sure it's not rare. There's nothing that I went through that a lot of other people are going through. And have you ever heard anyone talk about that? I've never heard that talked about in my life. In fact, I never had anybody that I could look at. And this was the problem. I never had anyone that I could look at while I was anorexic and say, you were as bad as I was and you made it out and you didn't gain 200 pounds and you're not miserable.

And you're not, you know, you didn't have to go to inpatient for four years and leave your family. Like there was nobody who talked about this. And I think that's what kept me sick for so long. is there was no gray area. It was black or white. It was like, if I stopped doing this, I'm going to go back to the person I was in high school. And this tall, thin, blonde, famous, beautiful husband, great family is all going to go away. I mean, I had such irrational fears because I had no one to look at and say, oh, you recovered and, you know, you're happy. How does it feel that you're going to be that for people?

Oh, my God. It's like, I can't even imagine. I don't, I'm so, if I, I could be that for one person. Everything's worth it. It's going to help a lot of people. I mean, you're very open in the book. When you, when you start feeding your children, you mentioned that you almost like sort of got, and for lack of a better word, obsessed with what they were eating. Yes.

Do you think that that had to do with the fact that you were like obsessing with what you were eating but you wanted to like go the other way? Yeah. I mean, I had the unhealthiest relationship with food that you could ever imagine. I didn't know what. I lost all sense of hunger. So I didn't eat when I was hungry. I only ate according to a schedule.

So I couldn't. When you say that, like you would not get hungry throughout the day? I always felt a sense of hunger because I was never eating. But you just got so good at not. So it was like, of course I'm always hungry. So there was never anything like,

oh, I'm extra hungry now it's time for a meal. There was never that. It was always hunger because I was so mouth. nourished. So I never trusted hunger. I thought that food was the enemy and that hunger was the enemy. And everyone's always hungry is what I thought. Like, of course you're hungry. That's just what the body does. So when my kids, I also didn't trust fullness. I trusted none of it. So when my kids wouldn't want any more food, I would get hysterical because I didn't, if I didn't trust, I didn't trust them to trust their own bodies, you know. So.

It makes sense. Right. So if they were telling me that they're full, I thought something else must be going on. They must just, like, be resisting for another reason, you know. And I got, I was always very worried that doctors were going to think that I was underfeeding my kids because I was anorexic. Wow. Mm-hmm.

When you talk to your children now and they look back, did they see anything that they mentioned or said to you or did they, did they not understand? Oh, no. This is when they were like babies. What about when they got a little bit old? When they got older, I stopped messing with their food. So I go through this. I saw a therapist who, a nutrition, a dietitian, sorry, who was like, you cannot do that to your kids' food anymore. And I got scared over what I was doing to them. So I stopped messing with their food when they were babies.

But they saw me. So I stopped doing it to them, but they witnessed me having quite possibly like the most disordered eating ever. I never touched anything that my family was eating. I took them out for ice cream, pizza, dinner all the time, and I just had diet cook. That's it. Do they say anything about it? They would tell Evan, why doesn't mom, why does mommy eat that like the same food all the time? What doesn't mommy get ice cream? But they got very used to it.

It was just the way that I was and I think they were too young to know. What I worry about is what they internalized. And like one day when they're, you know, 18 years old. and they say, what did mommy do to lose weight? I want to lose some weight. You know, that's what I worry about. I think, though, you can point them to your book and they can have context of how it became such a monstrous disorder.

Like, I think they'll be able to see any empathetic, compassionate person that reads your book will be able to understand how you got to that. Oh, yeah. I think they would understand. I just hope that they don't, you know, I hope that they don't, do anything because they saw it for so long, do you know what I'm saying? I definitely try to talk to them about it, but more important, I try to model like really good behavior in front of them now. At what point did your husband say something to you? Was it really far into your relationship?

I know in the early. In the beginning, he said something I bit his head off. Yeah, but it was about the sushi. Yeah. You know, he was careful. He also didn't want to like push me too far. I will assure you there was nothing that you could say to me. Right. That would make me, like I say in the book, it's like telling somebody, telling me to stop is like me telling you, take a knife and cut off your finger.

You'll be fine, just cut off your finger. And as hard as it would be for you to actually pick up that knife and cut off your finger, that's what it felt like to me. Wow. This was part of me. Well, this is what I think people don't understand.

It's because like for somebody who doesn't struggle with this issue, they would look like, this is so simple, fix it. Right. Eat a cheeseburger. If I could tell you the number of times that people have told me,

just eat a cheeseburger. It's like for me, it felt like picking up a knife and actually going through the process of cutting off your finger because you wouldn't be able to do it. As much as I wanted to, I would go to the store and pick things up and stare at them and say, I want to buy this. I want to eat this. And then just put them down and walk out. I couldn't do it. I mean, it's really is all consuming. It is a disease that is all consuming. It is. So when you get on television, is it everything you hoped it would be? And listen, let me say, like I said, I'm a viewer. Yeah. The Jersey one is wild. It's wild. It's wild. So when you get there, you're like, okay, I'm like, I know what to expect here. I know what this is going to be or

no, I had no idea what to expect. My first two years, I really did love it. And I loved being, like the new kind of famous, you know? I thought it was just wild and so much fun. And then my third year when, you know, everything happened with that cheating rumor, I just lost. I couldn't handle it because I wasn't strong, you know? I also think the problem is, is anyone can say anything and make up anything. Yes. And then it's out there. And then it's out there. And it's like if you don't defend it, then you, and I think you said this at the reunion. If you don't defend it, it's like you're, you kind of just roll over to it. But if you do defend it, but if you do defend it, it, then it looks like you're being defa.

It's like you're kind of in a situation where you can't win. We were talking about like, okay, I brought up Steve Harvey. And Steve Harvey has this thing where he says in your marriage, like it should be a closed circle marriage. You only deal with your own issues in your marriage. You don't invite everybody else and you don't tell your friends, your family. Like you deal with the marriage. And it doesn't mean you can't have a counselor, but it means like I don't need to run to my

mom if there's an issue. She doesn't need to run to her dad. Like we deal with it. And that's how we kind of conduct our marriage. I think the interesting thing about doing what you do or going on any television property is like especially this kind of. property is like the world starts commenting on everything with no actual personal knowledge of you and they're for whatever reason even and this is why people watch the shows they want to see the

high drama on these things but they don't they don't also realize that there's like this is a human on the other end of it and they're commenting on real things that can have real impact or things that aren't real that could also have impact yeah and they also blame you because you went on it you signed on for this yeah it's like nobody if i come on the nobody really says well you signed up for the podcast. And on reality TV, it's like, you've signed up for this. I'm allowed to take any punches I want. I'm allowed to say anything I want.

Like, this is your life now. This is what you signed up for. Yep. I think as a viewer watching that, it looked to me like you were someone who had a really strong marriage in the group. And that was a really, I don't think this, but I think maybe some people thought that it was a strategic way to take you down because your marriage was so solid. It's like, go for the jugular with you.

Because to me, like your marriage like looks, it looks very strong. It is. It is. He's great. We're good. And so that's what they, like, they almost like take the strength and rip it down. Yeah. This is what I'm saying if it works for the guys.

Either you have a great marriage and you're a good guy and they're going to take you down or you're a total scumbag and they're going to take you down. Like there's no, like it doesn't matter if you're good or bad. Yeah. I mean, it comes for everybody. Unfortunately. I don't know anyone who gets out unscathed. You know, other people have handled it differently than I did. You know, and even.

Teresa has said to me, like, I thought you were just going to, like, have a fight with me and be like, my husband doesn't cheat on me, and then it would be over, you know? But I, I couldn't do that. I didn't know how to do that. Like, I was so scared of the world and I had so much anxiety over everything, which, of course, manifested as an eating disorder, but I had so much anxiety over everything that I turned it into just this, like, monster, you know? And I let it consume me and, and I dealt with it by starving myself. So even though I never got rid of my eating disorder, like it was always there. I was always anorexic. It got, it took a turn and I started to get like hysterical with it. So I would deprive myself of food because it felt like I was punishing myself.

Do you guys ever feel on that show that like, do you guys ever have a conversation ahead of time and be like, hey, some of this stuff just needs to be off limits or is it like anything goes? Because I feel over the years, it's gotten more and more aggressive. All the franchises. You know, your friends know that your friends wouldn't do anything like that to you. I almost feel like as a viewer that people that come on the shows now, it's like, well, on the past seasons, they did these. And for me to be relevant, I got to up the Annie. And it like.

I mean, it's hard, though. Look at the ratings. The ratings are wild when you have that kind of drama. Sure. You know? And I think there's no franchise that there's not a husband being a cheating rumor going around. I mean, Salt Lake City is all cheating rumors. Yeah, we produce some of the.

The Vanderpump shows. And I can attest, like, when that was going on, it's just, like, gangbusters. Everything is cheating rumors. So I think if you tried to say, like, no cheating rumors, like, they'd be like, okay, yeah. What was sort of the straw that broke the camels back with you deciding to get severe help? Like, when were you like, okay, this is, I've done this for 18 years. There must have been something that was like. It wasn't the emotional pain.

It wasn't the counting. It wasn't anything like that. It was the amount of physical pain that I was in. So my body was really failing. And I knew that there were things going on in my body that I was just denying. But like I had an abominably slow heart rate, like dangerously low. And I had, you know, I hadn't, I've been on hormone replacement since I was in my early 30s because I had no estrogen in my body. I had liver inflammation, all things from not even.

from malnourishment. I had a lot of things going on. And I had a hamstring injury, but one of the parts of my eating disorder was that I wouldn't allow myself to eat if I didn't burn off calories in advance. So I would run. Every day I would run no matter what. And I had a hamstring injury, and I was trying to run through it, and it was just so bad. And one day, and I had lost a lot a weight. Not a lot, but for me to lose anything was a lot. So I had lost like four pounds when I was going through all that trauma from, you know, the rumor. And I was running through an injury and I just collapsed in pain. And I thought to myself, what, if I don't stop now, I'm going to be 65 and still doing this. I'm never going to stop. I'm going to live my whole life

like this. And it was the first time that I let myself think what would, what would be so bad if I stopped and what might be good, you know? And I was at a point in my life where I was like, well, my husband's not going to stop loving me. And like, I might not make it to 65 if I don't stop. So I think I just spent some time on the floor there and really thought about things. And then the first thing I did was come upstairs and tell Evan. So that at least it was like, I thought, even if I changed my mind, if I tell him and I open the door and I open the conversation, I can never take it back. And then what happened after that? Was he relieved? Oh, he was so happy.

Did he, I mean, he must have had some kind of inkling or some kind of. Oh, yeah. Oh, Evan knew that I was anorexic. Okay. Everyone knew. Everyone around me knew. I mean, in fact, when the book came out, like all of me, you know. my friends, my college friends called me crying. And they said, Jackie, we were all so worried about you all the time, but no one knew what to say to you.

You know, it's hard to talk to somebody about this stuff. Well, what do you say? It's such a delicate issue. And it's, I mean, food. It's sensitive. From your perspective, what is the right approach? If somebody has a relationship with somebody that is going through the same thing. Well, I know for me, there was nothing you could do to stop me.

but I do think it's worth saying something. So if you're a family member, a loved one, I would say if you want me to help you, if you ever want me to help you, I'll help you find a specialist because there are, I didn't know that there were specialists out there who dealt with this kind of stuff. I had an inkling, but I didn't know how to find them. So I would just make sure the person who was struggling knows that you're there to help them if they want help. there's screening tools on the NIDA website, the National End Disorder Association website that you could see if the person that you love is actually has a problem.

I would just let them know that you're there when they're ready. You know, I mean, what's a point where you like where you need to intervene though? The problem is that unless somebody's a minor, you can't check them in to, I mean, you can't. I mean, I've, I've had friends who had issues with alcohol. You can't, you know, how do you intervene? And you could talk to them, but you can't send somebody to AA, you know. What was your first step after laying on the floor after hurting your hamstring, making it worse?

What is your first step? I told Evan, and I was still anorexic for a long time after that, because I couldn't stop on my own. But I told Evan, I told the producers on my show that I wanted to do it on the show because I had woken up probably once a month over the past like 16 years before that and said, okay, this week I'm going to start eating more. I'll just have a little more on Tuesday. And then the next Tuesday I'll have a little more than that.

It never happened. Because if I was the only one holding myself accountable, there were too many fears and too much unknown and I didn't know how to do it. And food was not important to me. Weight was important to me. So I knew that the only way that I was going to stop is if I had more, if I had all the viewers holding me accountable. Now, that's not to say that you can't recover if you're not like on a public platform.

But for me personally, I knew that if I put out there, I'm anorexic and I need help, I wouldn't show all the other people who might be suffering from the same thing. Oh, you know what? It's too hard. Not going to do it. when you were on the show dealing with this, what were things that you did to conceal this? Because I can only imagine the pressure of being on a show

that is watched by so many people and you're trying to disguise what's actually going on. And listen, like I said, with these kind of particular shows, you don't just have like casual viewers. Yeah, I'm surprised. You've got like spies. There's probably somebody outside the door right now. No, but none of the girls said anything on the show.

No, I don't think they really notice. You know, it's hard. Like, even during food scenes, Like a lot of people don't eat, not because they have eating disorders, because, you know, it doesn't look as good to be, like, chewing on stuff as, you know. A lot of times there's, like, an intense discussion or a fight going on. Or a table being flipped over. Yeah, right?

And the food, you know, the food is not, like, the focal point. So you can get away with it. You can get away with it. Yeah, you're not like going down there to sit down. You're going there to film a show. Yeah, like, no one's really watching. I think there's one blog that, like, keeps track of what people. order. But other than that, yeah. Oh, every, every part of your life's dissected. But, you know,

you could really get away with it. And I did get away with it for a while, but it didn't, it didn't stick because there were too many, there were too many times where it was outside of meals, where I got really weird around food and I'd be the only person not eating it and the only person who didn't take a bite of something. I couldn't even take a bite of something. Wella Professional's New Line Ultimate Repair is the most premium line. to date. And it was developed with 140 plus years of experience and research to deliver the very best. Miracle Hair Rescue Repairs Hair in only 90 seconds. So here's how I like to use it. I will do one of two things. I'll take it to when I get a blowout. Like I'll go for a blowout and

I'll bring it with me and I'll spray it in my hair before they dry my hair. Or, and this is a real move. When I go on vacation, I won't blow dry my hair. I'll give my hair a break. So like, I'll take a shower, I'll get my hair wet. And then when I get out, I'll spray the ultimate repair Miracle Hair Rescue in my hair. I do like five to 10 pumps. And then I'll put it in a sleek bun and leave it wet. And you don't have to rinse it out. So you don't need to rinse it. You can just put it in your hair. You can comb and you can put it in a sleek bun. And it's like a multitasking bun. So the product has key ingredients like AHA and omega-9. And these rebuild the hair bonds inside the strands and replenish the outside barrier of damaged hair.

So I have had a lot of heat on my hair. So this is really nice to have this bonding serum that repairs hair damage in 90 seconds. It's honestly incredible. I just gave some to my executive assistant, Katie, and she's obsessed too. You notice a difference very quickly. You can purchase Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Amazon and Ulta now. what is so wild to me is that people are so concerned about what they're eating and what they're ingesting and then they'll give their dog crappy food. Like I just don't understand that.

If you're going to give yourself the best food, you want to give your dog the best food. So enter the farmer's dog. They make and deliver fresh healthy dog food. So this is developed by vets, nutritionally balanced and made from real healthy ingredients to human food safety standards. I know that this is absolutely amazing because I give it to my dogs. This is the wet food that they like. They go crazy when I give it to them. But most importantly, I've noticed that my chihuahua boon, his eyes used to be super weepy. Like they had these huge, I don't know, it's almost like a black wetness underneath them.

And since having real dog food like the farmer's dog, it's all gone. Like it disappeared. His skin is shining. His coat is shining. His energy levels and his breath even smells better. I'm not even joking you. To give you a little background, traditional dry and wet dog food usually is really highly processed. And it's usually super low ingredients. So the farmer's dog, nip this all in the bud with real food. Get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at the farmer's dog.com slash skinny. Plus, you get free shipping. Go to the farmer's dog.com slash skinny. to get 50% off. That's thefarmer's dog.com slash skinny. I can only imagine that as you start to recover, that it's not sort of like, like, it's complex. Like, it's not like you just go into recovery and you get better.

Oh, no. Can you talk about that? Because I think people also think this with AA, you go into AA and you get better. That's not really how it works. There are setbacks. It seems. Yeah.

Like, how does that work? You know, and that's one of the reasons I also wanted to write the book because I felt like, even though I thought that the show did agree, job with my story. I think it was a little bit of a disservice to people who are struggling because, you know, like a reality show storyline has the best ones have a beginning, a middle, and an end, right? So I think that the way it was portrayed a little bit was that the beginning, I was very sick, and in the middle, I got help, and at the end to ate ice cream, and then it was done.

And the ice cream was just the very beginning for me. So that's why I didn't want to, like, give off the impression that it's just that simple. The recovery process for me was it took a it took a while. It was two parts, which is why it's important to be in therapy and to work with a dietitian because there's the food part, like the actual food that you have to learn how to eat again and like trust your body and trust your hunger signals and all of that. But then there's the part where you have to really dissect. And I'm not like a therapy freak or anything like that, like you need to really dissect like how you got here and why you would do that to yourself and why you would like essentially like slowly kill yourself to be thin.

You look amazing. Do you feel like you're in a really good place now? Yes. I say I'm about, I think I'm about like 80% recovered. And I don't have any kind of an eating disorder anymore. That last 20% is a little bit of like disordered thinking around food. So still some fears that I have around food. There's still some fears that I have.

have around specific foods that I labeled as like the worst of the worst for so long that I still haven't eaten. I get worried. I still probably get more guilt than other people after I eat a meal that I would never have eaten before. But at the same time, I have no more social anxiety around food. I don't look up menus in advance. I don't worry if I'm going out six nights a week. I'd never worry about what's going to happen if I have to eat six meals out. And that's, it's like a whole, it's like a full-time job has gone away. To sort of like kick this mistress out of your marriage because it's like kind of like it's gone.

It's gone. How has that been for your marriage now? I mean, it's just you get to share things that you never did before. We take longer vacations. We go away for a week at a time with the kids. Vacations were a huge, a huge stress. Vacations were a big thing. I would never leave for more than three nights.

Why? Because like you were away. from the types of food that you wanted. It was just too many meals out for me. I couldn't handle it. I would have like a nervous breakdown. I would go to a restaurant just not eat because I couldn't, I couldn't eat that many meals out. It was just, it was too much for me.

And also it was really unenjoyable because if I went out for breakfast, I would have to have, there were very few foods that I trusted. So every meal was so unenjoyable for me and so much work for me to get through. And then I was starving. So I only had hard boiled eggs and I would pee. the white off, leave the yellow, and just eat like 18 hard boiled eggs for breakfast. I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot of work. It's all consuming. Yeah. And it would, like the foods on vacation would make me feel sick. So I'd never had good time on vacation because I just couldn't

eat. I mean, Evan and I go out all the time now. I can go out to dinner six nights a week. I can do everything I could have. You know, we share a lot of stuff. There's also, I mean, all that time I spent counting things is gone. Oh, that must be so nice for it. It's like a weight off the shoulder. You know, I won't pretend that I'm like fully there because I still do get a little nervous sometimes around food, but there's no anorexia left. I never, ever restrict. I don't count. I take days off from the gym. So that's great. But I still, you know, I'm still with the same therapist that I wrote about in the book, the one that people saw on the show, same dietitian. You know, I never go backwards. There's times where my progress stands still for three weeks, four weeks, but I never go backwards.

And then I take baby steps. It sounds like all in all, as it relates to the show, it was a positive experience for you because it helped you. Oh, yeah. I don't think I would have recovered if I didn't hit a rock bottom. Yeah. Now your relationship with the show, how is it changed? Because you went from being full time to a friend. And in some ways, like a friend is like the perfect taste of everything because you can kind of

have a boundary and you're not so inundated in it. Yes. Last year, last season, I was miserable because the friend role coincided with, you know, the way that I gained weight in recovery. You're not on the main credits, but you're still on the show. It means I'm not full time. I'm part time. But I'm still in every episode. It's very strange. It's a different thing than I thought it was. When I, you know, the way that my recovery went was I gained a lot of weight in a very short period of time and it didn't start right away. So I started eating a lot more.

And I was excited. And I was so happy to be eating a lot more. And I hardly gained any weight the first three months. And then like, pow, like everything came on. I gained, I don't weigh myself. So I don't know how much. But I'm guessing a good, like 12 to 15 pounds I gained in a three month period. And I was beside myself.

And that was from like January to April. And then in April, the cast. decision started and it was clear that I was just not in a good mental state. This is April 2022, so a year and a half ago already. And I was not in a good place mentally. And I think the show knew that and I knew that. And we all felt like a full-time role was not probably the best thing for me. And I was miserable because I felt like I had failed like I had lost my identity as the thin person that now I was not only fat, but I lost my job. And I was just, so sad about everything. And it wasn't until I really got my head right around like valuing who I was

outside of what my body looked like that I was, I was like, oh, this is what I have to do to recover. Because when I was so focused on what everybody thought of my body, anorexia was just there waiting for me. So when I got the friend role, it was all just, part of me failing, you know? So I thought I was miserable the first year. And every comment online, no matter what I said, I could say, have a good day, everyone. They'd be like, shut up, you're demoted. You know, so for me, already with those self-esteem issues and with gaining all the weight, and I was just so sad, I was really sad. And then once I did all the work on my self-esteem, and it drastically changed who I am as a person. And this year, I would,

not change anything. I love being a friend. I love it. I had time to write the book. I am in it, but I'm not like super in it. But like when I Google the show, half the stories are about me. So I mean, and like you just don't have a personal storyline, but hey, personal storyline. So like what's the difference? Well, I feel like, you know, this would, like you kind of also got what you maybe needed already, right? Does that make sense? I did get what I needed from the show. And I actually love, I love the show, but I don't really, last year I felt a big difference being a friend this year. I don't feel it at all. Can I also say something? There's something chic about leaving the party early. Like, sometimes when like you don't know when to leave the party, it's like, it looks tired

and it's a little long in the tooth. Yeah. I mean, and the truth is, the truth is like, nobody gets to stay forever. Right. And it's kind of shit. Everyone's going to have to go at some point. Like, I got to actually like take a baby step down before, you know, before they just drop me off the roof. Well, I feel like here's what I, here's what I'm just like from an outside observing and I know know you that well, just meeting you today. But it's like you went on there, you were able to go through this incredible journey, incredible recovery. Your marriage is still intact. Your kids are doing well. Like you're fun. You're fine. Like my thing is I've seen it kind of go the other way with some people that go where it's like they start better than they leave. Does that make sense?

Yeah, of course. And like that to me would be a disaster. Like I think everybody's ambition when they do something like this is like, hey, I'm going to enhance my life in some kind of way. You don't ever go into like, I want to crash and burn and leave. No, I definitely feel like I came out on top. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of people we personally know that's like, oh, that did not go well. Yeah.

And then there's some people. I would agree with that. I can't believe as a viewer that you and Teresa are friends now. You have to tell us. It's a really, it's an interesting. I want people to watch it because it's, you know, everyone trying to guess what happens,

I don't want to ruin anything, but it's very organic. This season's really good. There's a lot of relationship dynamics that I think are really good. I don't think there's that much toxic drama, which is nice. Who is your best friend on the cast?

Jen Fessler. Yeah. She's fabulous. She's like my sister. When I heard that she fucked Tony Soprano, first of all, Tony Soprano, Yeah.

When she was in her, like, 20s. Yes. James, how do you say his last name? That's Lauren's crush. That's my crush. I think he is like so, I don't, I like have this weird obsession with him. Really? Yeah, I like want to marry him.

She has a weird obsession with the character he played. Yeah, I have, I just love it. Like the Tony Sopranoness of it. When I heard she fucked him, I was like, you lucky bitch. Yeah, she loved him. I'm just like sitting right over here, you know? Yeah. You don't care.

It's Tony Pran. That's okay. My husband knows that I have a huge crush on. Pete Davidson. He jokes about it. Listen, I think it's... Is it because of his huge personality? Actually, it's really bizarre. Can I tell you something? He looks just like one of my sons. And sometimes

I don't know if I like love him because I love my son so much. But like in every picture, people are always like, your son looks just like Pete Davidson. Well, maybe I could see that because you like, there's something that you like love about your son so much. It's like, I look at him and I'm like, I love you. We're singing our son a song about how she's going to be his only girlfriend for the rest of his life. I say he's living with his mom for the rest of his life. I'm booting him out. No, you aren't.

How old is your son? He's one and a half. Oh. Well, you guys say that to my 15 year olds. Yes, subliminally, I sing a song so he remembers that he's living with me and there's no one but his mom. Let me tell you something. He's getting the fuck out. I'll move out with him.

You have been so outspoken about Ozempic. and how there's a lot of housewives on OZempe and how they're not being honest about it. Is it what bothers you? Is that people are doing it and not being honest? Oh, no, no, no. That's not what bothers me. I don't care who's on OZempe. I don't know what anyone's personal medical reason is for going on OZembek,

and I certainly understand the desire to be thin. What bothers me is the drug itself being used for the purposes that it's not meant to be used for. So I'm not talking about the people using it for diabetes or for binge. eating or for, you know, obesity who really are obese. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people who are using it for the last 10 pounds. And the reason that I have a problem with it is because I have skin in that game. I know what happens when you try to stop. You can't. It's very hard when you get really thin to then go backwards after the whole world just told you for the past two years how unbelievable you look. How do you then go backwards?

So what's going to happen? I don't know. There's no long-term studies on it. Our friend Peter Atia, I don't know him. He's a longevity expert. He came on the show and he works with a ton of patients and he's actually taken, he said he's taken his patients off of this because of the long-term studies. And he said that in a lot of cases, he's seeing people's relationship with food completely

changed. Oh, it's gone. I mean, you don't have hunger anymore. And for me, when you artificially cut off your hunger, that's anorexia, right? That's everything that I did for 20 years was try to deny my hunger. And that's what these drugs allow you to do. So for me, it feels like an injectable form of anorexia. I don't know what the long-term studies are. I know that in the short term, it can cause intestinal blockage. I know that you lose a ton of muscle mass. You know, and none of those things

are good for you, especially as you get older as a woman, you know. So, but in the long-term, who knows. And if there comes a day when they start to realize that there are long-term things that make it very dangerous to be on this drug, then people are going to have to stop and you're going to have a world of people who never had issues with food before that are, you know, suddenly have eating disorders. I think like part of like the problem with, I guess, forever, is just like people not understanding that there just really is, are no shortcuts in life. Like there's just no shortcut. Like you have to do the things that you know. you have. They may be hard, but like the things that you, we all know you should be doing,

you need to be doing. And shortcutting your way there is going to cost you something at some point. And it's a scary when you don't know what that cost is. I think it looks like a miracle drug to a lot of people right now. And so I think people think that they did find a shortcut. I hope that there's nothing that comes out long term. You know, I also don't have any envy at all because I'm enjoying eating so much now. I'm like a kid. It's like really like a kid discovering food for the first time. There's a lot of foods that I have for the first time where I'm like, wow, I really like that.

Or like, wow, that's not as good as I thought it would be. You know, I'm like. What's the best? What's something that you're like? Oh, my God. I could eat tuna fish all day. I still have not had pizza, though. I think you should go to Ruby Rosa.

That's the best. I wouldn't even know where to start. Go to Ruby Rosa and get the market. I agree to pizza with a glass of wine. Yeah. So fucking good. Yeah. Tuna fish.

Tuna fish. You know what's good in tuna fish? Cornishins. Really? Yeah. Oh. I love tuna fish with cornishins. Yeah?

Yeah. Where can everyone find your book? Pimp yourself out. Where can they find your Instagram? So exciting. I love this book, by the way. Like, it just, I am so proud of it. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, every independent bookstore.

You can find it anywhere that books are sold. There's an audible. I did the I did the audio book myself. A lot of work. It was so nice though to actually sit down and read the entire thing beginning to end. Yeah. I loved it. Audible, e-books, you know, Amazon's the easiest.

I got mine on my Kindle, you guys. I highly recommend it. The weight of beautiful Jackie, thank you for coming on. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you so much. Thank you. As a friend. Thank you.

Thank you. If you are looking for a gift for Christmas, you have to go to shops, We have you covered body care. We even have all the face tools that you need. I personally think the ice roller is such a good gift. If you want a stocking stiffer, though, you could always go for the driving gloves. But if you're looking for something that will shock the person you're giving a gift to, you have to check out our new dry brush. Butterbrush is my favorite tool we've ever launched. To stock the site, go to shopspinneyconfidential.com.