The Bossticks - Riley Keough On Love, Loss, & Continuing Lisa Marie Presley & Elvis Presley's Story & Legacy

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

#784: Join us as we sit down with Riley Keough – Emmy, Golden Globe, & Independent Spirit Award–nominated actress, & author of "FROM HERE TO THE GREAT UNKNOWN", a heartfelt memoir about her mother, Lisa Marie Presley. Riley completed the book using tapes her mother left behind, capturing the vibrant, joyful, and authentic story of Lisa Marie's life—from her upbringing in the iconic Graceland, to being the only daughter of Elvis Presley, & all of the in between! In this episode, Riley shares her mother's true story, opens up about navigating grief and loss,reflects on growing up in the spotlight, & speaks candidly about the complexities of life, addiction, & healing.   To connect with Riley Keough click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697)   This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn's favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   To purchase "From Here To The Great Unknown" by Lisa Marie Presley & Riley Keough click HERE.   This episode is sponsored by Cymbiotika Go to cymbiotika.com/theskinny and use code SKINNY to save 15% off of your subscription order.   This episode is sponsored by Dreamland Baby   Go to dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping.   This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol   Go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code SKINNYHAIRGIFT to get $10 off any order & free shipping when you subscribe!   This episode is sponsored by Aura Farms   Save on the perfect gift by visiting AuraFrames.com to get $35-off Aura's best-selling Carver Mat frames by using promo code SKINNY at checkout.    This episode is sponsored by Good Ranchers   Subscribe to any Good Ranchers box and use my special code skinny to get a free gift of chicken breasts, ground beef, bacon, or salmon for a year plus free express shipping.   This episode is sponsored by Bloomingdale's   Right now, when you shop Brooklinen at Bloomingdale's online, use code SKINNY20 to get 20% off your purchase.   Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Well, I've never done anything. Like, I've done a lot of heavy work as an actor, but never anything that's, like, real. When I'm acting, I don't like recall my own trauma. Like, I don't really use my own stuff. So this was a very different experience. And it was very intense and very heavy. And so honestly, I was like very happy for it to be over. And I was happy to be done writing it.

But it was really cathartic because I think that there's really something in sharing your story and just being really honest and open that helps you process what happened. I first discovered you. What do you think I'm going to say? I don't know. Like something weird. I was sitting at home alone. I was looking for a show to watch. This is years ago. Okay. And up pops. The girlfriend experience. Yeah, if that feels on brand. And I was like, this is so juicy. I'm like, who is this girl? She's amazing. That's so funny. What if that makes sense. It was. It was really fun. Tell Michael what that is so he can, you're not going to have a girlfriend experience. I've heard you talk about it. It's just about, you know, women who are escorts, but offer like a full girlfriend experience, basically.

I'll put it on my up next. I could use a break, too, if you could find one of those. Sometimes I just need a little space. All right. I'm going to watch it. I'll watch it on the plane ride home. Riley, welcome to the show. Thank you.

I'm so happy to be here. We're so happy to have you. I have told you multiple times your book was so amazing. You and your mother's book that you both wrote together. It was so beautiful and so open and so vulnerable. And it was honestly shocking because sometimes you read celebrity memoirs and you're like, you're like, you're not telling me anything. I'm not going to name the person that I'm talking about, but there is a very famous person

that I was just reading her biography. I was so excited to read it. And the whole entire, I had to stop it halfway through, was positioning herself as a hero. There was no, there was no, like, openness about anything. It was just about how great she was. which is awesome, but like we need to see a little behind the scenes. Yeah. I think that that, like my mom was so like raw and authentic and herself that the only version of an autobiography would be a version where it was kind of just everything

out there. And when I got the tapes that she'd recorded, she'd basically recorded 16 tapes of her entire life story, you know, because she was going to write her own book. And then she passed away. So I got these tapes. And like the honesty and the tapes, she's talking to somebody who she doesn't really know well, who she's planning on writing this book with.

And her honesty in the tapes was everything that's in the book. So I kind of, you know, if she didn't want it in the book, she wouldn't have said it in the tapes. So I think that she had always just planned on being really, you know, straightforward about difficult things, like her addiction and her, you know, grief and the loss of her father. And, and I was quite surprised at how open she was willing to be. How did you even go about getting, like, listening to those tapes? Was it, you had to, you mentioned

off there, you had to, like, pace yourself into it. Yeah. Well, it was like three months after she died. So it was, or a couple months after she died that I got them. And I, I, I, was putting it off because it felt very intense. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure many people listening of lost parents and just hearing their voice is really jarring. Like a photo is jarring sometimes if you're not expecting it, but the voice is very like visceral. And so I prepared for it and I like put my headphones in and laid down because I knew it was going to be like emotional. And then I started at like tape one, which was her first memory and her childhood. And did she film these all like in a period of time or was this throughout her life that she was built?

It was over the last like five years of her life. And she was, it was all being recalled actually after my brother died. So she was in grief for a lot of, like a lot of the tone of her book was through the grief of losing her son. And so I think that one, with that said, like there's so much humor and like, and love and and all of those things in the tapes as well. But the weird thing was is that after a few minutes, it started to just feel like she was on the phone and there, which was then hard to like hang up, you know,

because I felt like I was just in the room or something while she was chatting with a friend or something. And then slowly, like my method sort of, changed and I switched into like the writer brain part of me that was like okay and I need to structure this and here's this story and this is great and whatever she writes screenplays too oh no I'm aware but how how long through throughout your grief process till you jumped into like how long after it passed until you decided to like go into that it was pretty quick and I think that that's because it came from a place of like when someone passes away and you feel like there's all these

loose ends that you need to tie up. That was one of them. Like this book was something she was mid-process and it just felt like this thing I needed to do. And it wasn't like, I wasn't like, oh, I'm so excited to do this. I was more like, I don't want to do this. But I'm going, but I have to, it kind of felt like. So at the beginning, yeah, it was very much like just felt like a task sort of. And then I started enjoying it. The book, maybe it doesn't start, but it begins. with your mom being nine or seven years old, I can't remember, and seeing Elvis being carried out in front of her. And it seems like your mom had had so many intense things happen.

There's like a string throughout her whole life. And it seemed like that was the thing that- That was the age when he passed. I hope that's how old she was. She was nine. She was nine when he passed. Which, by the way, side tangent, like we were thinking about this on the show.

Like, all right, and then we talk about this. And we're like, okay, like fame has changed. Yeah. Now, I was saying that's really important because in this time, it's important context. There's like five people. And I was sitting here the other, we were in the car literally yesterday. Ariel was there. And I was like, it's crazy because sometimes we'll meet people doing what we do.

And I'm like, how do I not know more about it? They got like 30 million people following or 25. And I think it's because the world now can follow so many people and we see so many. But Elvis, your grandfather, is arguing. maybe one of the most famous people throughout in the history of the world. Yeah. Right? Like there's not people like, people like, people like, that had to be strange for not only

you but your family, it's seeing that level of fame compared to now. Right. Because, yeah. And then also Michael Jackson too, but like there's certain people that like, that, I don't think that level of notoriety. It doesn't really exist. It doesn't exist. It doesn't really.

It's kind of, I mean, it's, yeah, it's a. It was definitely, I think, a really singular experience. And that I think that maybe it exists for like Kim Kardashian or something. No, I don't even think that. Lauren and I went to Beijing China one time. Yeah. It's not a comment on that. We were there.

And like they didn't know who at the time. They didn't know who she was. And there were certain people they didn't know. And there was like, you know, people knew like Ronald McDonald, Santa Claus and Elvis. Right, right. Yeah, totally. Like Jesus or something. Yeah.

Totally. Now, I mean, maybe you could say someone like Trump is known throughout the world. But there's very few, and he's the president of the United States, but there's very few people that I think the entire world knows about no. Right. And the crazy thing about that is he didn't even travel internationally or tour internationally because he just toured America. Isn't that wild? It's interesting seeing Elvis through your mother's eyes because to her, that was her dad. Yeah. And it was interesting how your mom sees everyone around him.

and I also got to read your grandmother's book. Yeah. And your grandmother had a very similar perspective of Elvis. It was her significant other. Yeah. It wasn't like Elvis. Yeah. So that was interesting.

And it seemed like through the book that your mother idolized her father as a daughter, not as a fan. Totally. Totally. I think she would get like a kick out of the, like, certain moments with him, like, coming to her school or whatever. But she was the kind of person who, like, was kind of the wrong person to be born into this life, like hated attention, didn't want anything to do with it,

wasn't, didn't want to be famous, you know. And so I think that, but they had a really special relationship, and I think that he was a really loving father to her and the best father he could be. And I think that the loss of him was really like dictated her life in a sense. Do you think that maybe your mom didn't like attention because she saw what attention did to her dad? She probably just got so much of it, you know, that it was like intense, I guess.

I think that like speaking of like the grief in the book, she kind of talks about the funeral service and like fans coming into the house and watching people fainting and getting carried away by ambulances and like the this sort of like. global grief of someone that's very personal to you, I think was a really strange experience for her because I think that it didn't really leave room for her to have her own personal grief. And therefore, I don't think she ever really processed the loss of him. And it was something she kept very close to her vest. And actually, until this book, like, she never talked about the day that he died. It's almost like other people took ownership over his death. And so it's like she, like you said, she wasn't left to have the feelings that she could have.

Right. It's interesting to me that, too, that she ended up dating Michael Jackson. Like, just mating. Marrying. Marrying. Because he, he like, like, it's the same kind of thing. Yeah. It's almost like you're always attracted to one of your parents. Right.

It's like Freud. It's weird shit. But it's like we're just, I'm just trying to think like who, like where that would response would exist in this. really people would be it's just so it's it's a crazy thing to think that the entire world is paying attention to the passing of a family member yeah i know yeah it is crazy when when i mean i don't know any different so like it's just regular it's regular but i i i appreciate i can understand that it's uh crazy when you were a little girl and your mom would tell you about her her dad and her mom how would she describe it in the same way she described it in the book kind of i mean she

just would tell us stories about him and a lot of the stories that are in the book she would just tell us as kids like especially if we were in Memphis she'd say like this happened here and this happened here and there was so much love there but she wouldn't really talk about her grief very much until I was you know in my mid-20s but she would talk about him often and you know how much she was a daddy's girl and the loss of him did you really really? I realized when you were, when you guys would go to Graceland and stay in the room and there was tours out, like there was like tours happening and she was in the room with her mom and brother. And they would like, you have to wait in the room. Did you realize how crazy that was at a young age or do you have no concept of it? So we didn't do that when we were little. That was more in our 20s. Oh, I thought it was when you were little. No, we were actually like, me and my brother were like probably 20 and 23. Okay. Yeah. But we would, my mom went through a phase where she wanted to. stay at Graceland upstairs in her dad's room, which is not part of the tour. And if we didn't get out of there early enough, then we would basically be stuck there until the tours ended. So the security

would kind of like bring us McDonald's or whatever. Did you understand like Graceland when you were that age? Did you understand how why there was people touring it? Did you understand how people were so like attached to the story of it? I don't. think there was ever a point when my mom like had a conversation with us. I think it was just the around always. So I think that I I never know how to answer this question because it was just something that was normal to us. But I was aware of the like love and the the fans and the whole thing. It seems like she did a good job of protecting you guys in your childhood from all of the like the stuff that comes along with Hollywood. Yeah. She did. I mean, look, like, the 90s were really crazy for her and especially,

like, right before she married Michael and after she married Michael was really intense, like, with paparazzi and, like, people in our trees and, like, a million security and, like, just very, like, people kind of throwing their bodies at the car, like, just really kind of chaotic. And how old were you during all this? Probably like when I was born until well probably like three until 12 it was the craziest. Yeah I think for people that are like listening it sounds insane but for you it was probably just like this is just my childhood you don't know because you don't know any different. No I don't and I reflect on it and I I know that it's unique but but at the time it was just like this is just you know and now like my life is very simple

So I think that definitely it had an effect on me. You know, I don't want that lifestyle. Do people tell you that throughout the book, you seem like you're, there's like a element to you that you're like the one that's in control, even as a child? Like you're, you seem like you're organized. You seem like, in a way, like a little bit of a parental energy. I definitely felt that. Like, though my mom was very parental and very maternal and strict.

and like very much our mom like you know we'd never talk back and like it was very different kind of parenting than there is now but you know there wasn't gentle parenting. There wasn't gentle parenting though she was really loving

you know she was firm and very... I think you could be loving and firm. She was, you know what? She was loving and firm I actually think it was very effective parenting because we all turned out pretty great but like we have good manners we felt really loved.

Like I loved. my parents while at the same time I was also scared of them yeah like me and my husband talk about this all the time yeah I don't think that's a bad thing yeah right I look like I wasn't scared for my safety I will say I was scared that my mom had a sort of southern like mama strength where we would never like never like so I have friends who grew up saying calling their parents names and stuff like that would have never flown in in my house one time one time to my dad And I'll just say, I'll just say that was the person last time I ever did it. Exactly.

Yeah, that wasn't fun to see you after that. Also, my mother was like a black belt and tongue sudo. So she would just, they're just like, I watched her one time break a brick with her head. Right. Never, never mind. Exactly. With, it seems like that you had such a good experience with Michael Jackson. And you talked, like it seems like he seemed like a great guy.

Is that correct? The only context in which I can talk to him about is like my actual experience as a six-year. year old. And in my experience as a six-year-old, he was my stepfather who I was really attached to and I really cared for. And, you know, they were very much married and very much a sort of normal couple, even that sounds, I know that's, you know, people have a hard time conceptualizing that for, you know, but it was very like they would stay in the house together and would take us to school. And so it was very like normal. And I think at that age, my mom had multiple partners. And I did find myself being emotionally attached to almost all of them because it's like, I don't know. There's like someone in your house who's caretaking, you know, that, yeah. So I did feel close to him. And I did really love him. I understand that my dad had, if he's listening, sorry. He had a lot of different. different mates. Right. And you do, you form like a bond with them. Even if it is for six months.

Yeah. Or six days. Yes. Yeah. I know. So I understand that. Yeah. At what point of your childhood, did you let your mom know that you wanted to go into the career that you're in? And was she like, no, or was she supportive? Side note, is it weird for my wife to still call her dad daddy? Yeah, I call him daddy. I think it's okay. My dad's in my phone as daddy. Yeah. And you like when I call you daddy. No, but they want you to. I'm like, I don't know. I think you have to choose one or the other. Papa?

Papa and daddy. Big Papa. Or I could call you little Papa. When you told your mom that you wanted to get into your career, was she like fuck no or was she like let it rip? She was definitely like fuck no, but she also. She also wanted to be supportive. I think that she didn't want me. She had so much, like, I think being the daughter or a child of a celebrity at that time

was more kind of embarrassing than maybe it is now. Like I think now it's kind of everyone does everything. And there's like, I think that she, I think that her view on like celebrity children was, or nepotism was like very cringy. Like she was like, oh, don't just be like a celebrity kid who's out there trying to act. If you're going to, if you're going to do anything, you have to be the best at it. And you have to be really good and better than, you know, than or as good as your peers. And so I think there's a lot of, she put a lot of pressure on us to not sort of be a dilettante, I guess,

or try things and like just to take it very seriously. Well, you know how some people will be like, oh, that's that person's son or that's person's daughter. I think all three of the generations, especially having Elvis as a grandfather, has done a good job of differentiating themselves. Like, I look at you as an actress. I look at your mom as her own, like, sort of entity. And then you look at Elvis.

I think that's cool that you guys have been able to like establish. your own niche and do it the best. Well, it's always like people that come from prominent families or wealthy families, or they're always going to be from an outside perspective short change in a way because no matter what accomplishments they have, either some people are going to say, well, they didn't deserve them or they were given them. Or they're going to look and say, well, or they're not this person. And, you know, it's not like, I don't think people are crying tears to these people.

to these people that have platforms or come from wealthy families. But it's an interesting way to go through life when you are constantly being compared to a previous generation that was well to do because it's kind of like, hey, I'm here and I'm doing really great things. Like I'd like some credit.

Yeah. But it's just, you know, I think that comes with anything. Like if we do well in life and later in our kids do things, they're going to be like, there's always going to be the people that say, oh, well, they have this. Yeah.

And you're also building a future for your children. So I don't know. I think that like in our case, it was very different generation to generation because you had my mother who is Elvis's only child. So her ability to like have a career and be her own person. I think it was really hard for her. It was like they look like each other. They have the same last name.

It was like very much, you know. And it was of that time. It was of that time. And it was kind of like there was never really a chance for her to like have her own identity, I don't think, whereas for me, we have a different last name. I kind of wasn't, I didn't grow up as famous as she did, kind of. Like, I didn't, we were photographed all the time, but it was for my mom. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like they were chasing, I mean, for the most part, me and my brother around. So I was able to like have an acting career before,

you know, for many years where it, like, people didn't necessarily even know, know, my family, who my family were, which I felt really lucky about because I watched my mom really struggle with that. And so I think in her case, it was much more of a hindrance than in my case, I think that it's been, I've been luckier with that. As we head into Christmas and the new year, what better gift that you could give to people than the gift of health, which is why I'm so excited to talk about Symbiotica, one of our favorite companies, one of our favorite supplement brands. We absolutely love every single thing that this company creates. We've had to the founders of Symbiotica on this show so many times to discuss all of the amazing

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I think the comparison. I think it was mostly like she didn't want us to fail or feel. like, have the experience she had, like when she, you know, she, she wrote records and put music out. And she was a beautiful lyricist and a beautiful poet. And it was just, you know, the record labels, trying to make it more Elvis-y and wanting her to do Elvis songs and duet. You know, so I think that, and, you know, she had wonderful fans, but she also would have a lot of, like, Elvis impersonators at her shows.

And so it was, I think it was hard. Her own career was hard for her. And I think that she just didn't want us specifically to do music. Like I very early on asked for music lessons and wanted to play piano. And I think her and my father both were a bit afraid of us doing music. So I think in a way, the film was a little more like, oh, that's a little less scary. How crazy would it be for her to see this book, though, that stood on its own two legs, nothing to do really with Elvis. It's you and her. Yeah. I think she would have been really like blown away by it

because she was actually incredibly insecure and like didn't really feel deserving. Like she felt she she was she was it was interesting because she was extremely strong um headed and and strong-willed and tough but also really fragile and and deeply insecure. So I think that she would be truly shocked that the book was a bestseller, that she, you know, that her story mattered, that people were interested in her. How did that affect you when she was insecure when you were little? That's such a good question. That's such a good question.

It didn't, I felt sad for her. I don't think it made me insecure. I think I felt a sadness for her. but it was crazy because she was really insecure about her physical appearance. And she was so unbelievably beautiful. Like one of my first memories of her was her putting on her lip liner in the mirror. And I just remember thinking she was 28 at the time. And I remember thinking that she was the most beautiful woman in the world.

Like I, she was her whole life so stunning. But in that particular era to me, like she was like just like beyond beautiful. and she was just never saw a photo of herself she thought was pretty. I think I just felt sad. You seem so secure and confident. So it's interesting. And throughout the book, you feel that too. Like you just feel to me like a, you feel secure, even when you're little, when you're

talking about yourself when you're little. Maybe it's like because I felt really loved. Yeah. I don't know. I do feel secure. Yeah. Of course I have like I'm human and like I feel insecure about many things but I would say for the most part I that is there is truth in that and I think that maybe I was raised by parents who were like unconditionally loving you know. And what's so cool too is about how your dad and your mom were able to maintain this beautiful friendship throughout. I mean I've barely heard that in my interviewing everyone. I've never heard that. I know it's it's really impressive and I think that like

that was also really dictated, like, the way I approached relationships in my life. And I would, like, my parents basically got divorced and when I was six, and then on and off lived together. And then until she died, basically. He was there with her in the house. And I think they just tried to, like, they were very platonic. They didn't, I asked her at dinner, like, a few years ago, when the last time they hooked up was.

and she was like, it wasn't, you know, it was in like 19, I don't know, 98 or something like that. So they mostly just like drifted into friendship. They just drifted into friendship and they were awful married, I think, but they were great as friends. And he would live in the backhouse when she had different husbands and boyfriends. And I think it was uncomfortable for a lot of, he was fine. I think some of the boyfriends had a hard time. But he was fine and we were fine. I mean, we were, you know, really lucky, I think.

And is you, are you still, like, have a great relationship with your dad today? Is he so proud of the book? He's, I think he has a, he's, he also grew up in a time where, like, our family story felt so protected. Like, it was, like, growing up, it was, like, never put your name on anything. Don't, don't put your address anywhere. Don't talk about anything. Like, it was very secretive. so I think he still has a lot of that like oh it's like very unnatural to like share so much

and what I mean outside of the obvious reasons for safety and stuff like why did the family feel the need to be like that I don't know we were just raised that way I guess it was safety mostly yeah safety and um probably just again I think celebrity at that time was much more private in a lot of where now it's everyone's just shares kind of everything. You also think that like everyone was so entitled to every single little last thing that Elvis did that that his daughter was probably like this, I'm gonna go the other way. Also the stakes were higher, right? Like you leave the house and you go to the grocery store and the photo's like 50 grand or something, you know?

Like did you ever as a child, do you did, was it challenging to become friends with other kids? Like did you have instances where people like, oh this person's not here? for the right reasons. You had to like kind of watch out for that. Definitely. But I always could perceive it, you know, but there was a lot of like, is your mom home? Can we come over? From the kids? From the kids. I mean, which would be from the parents because how would they know, you know? Oh my God. But there was a lot of like, can we see your house? Do you have a big house? Like that kind of stuff. And then as I got older, just like ridiculous questions about, you know, so, but those kids were always very, uh,

transparent. I feel like you get a nose for it too. You do, yeah. You're like, eh, next. Yeah, exactly. Some kid in their dad show up in Elvis office is a dead giveaway. Yeah, right. With what happened with your brother, you seemed like you had the most amazing relationship with him. My mom committed suicide. Oh my God. I didn't know that. Truly, I would not wish it on anyone. Yeah. Really. Wow. It's really obviously devastating for the person. to go through, but it's really hard in the aftermath. How have you dealt with that and how did you talk about that? You seem like you're such good friends with your brother.

Yeah. Well, as you know, it's like the most fucked up experience. Yeah, it really is. And I don't know I'm only a few years out, but if it's something you ever can shake, because it's so intense. We had a grief, not a counselor, but it's, what do you call it? expert specialist on the show literally yesterday. Oh, wow.

And he was basically saying it's like it never leaves. You never shake it. It's just like you learn to live with it. So you learn to live with the pain and the trauma and the fear and the anxiety and the like all of the things that accompany grief. Because I think it's like grief is so big. It's, it's, it's, and changes all the time. And I think that that's something.

I realized like when I think that I have a handle on it, it shifts. And the next year it's a totally different experience. But I just try and stay present in like the uncomfortable moments, really, is all I, all I, when it happened, I kind of had this, like, feeling that if I wasn't extremely present through the pain of the grief that I wasn't going to make it through it. So I felt like I consciously was trying to feel everything, I think. I don't know what that did, but that was my method. It's overwhelming.

I think the suicide is so overwhelming because you start rewinding the tape of like, you know, the last time you talked to them, could you have said something? And then the last month that you were with them, did you see a sign? Yeah. And then you're like, well, why? why, like why? And then you start thinking about for me, I start thinking about like years later, or years before, two years before. Like, was there something there? That was weird. You start putting it together and it's kind of like a mind fuck. It is a mind fuck. Yeah. In your situation, was it something

that was totally shocking or was it from your perspective? Now that I'm an adult, not at all. Right. Now, you know how you have like the perspective? You can see how that could have happened. Yeah. I can, I actually, this is really, weird. I've never said this to anyone but Michael. I actually understand it. Okay. This is a long time ago though. So I can I actually understand it and I feel empathy for it. And what you said about your mom about how you said she was insecure, that you weren't insecure. You felt sorry for her. Empathy. Yeah. That's that's how I feel. I will tell you that when I had a daughter, it brought it back up like yes to the surface. Yes.

And I think like you just the same with you. It never, grief sort of never ends. And like, for instance, if you were to have a little boy and you have your daughter and you see that relationship, it's kind of bring stuff up that you think is shoved down. A hundred percent. And like I also had a daughter and my mom passed away when she was five months old. And so I have spent a lot of her life in grief so far. And it brings up a lot of like fear and, you know, like, irrational fear and going, oh, God, am I going to, is this going to happen? You know, I think the fear of lose, like, the loss of connection between a child and a parent is, like, so terrifying.

Yeah. That it does bring up, like, am I going to end up like that? Is this going to happen to, like, somewhere, you know, yeah, it's definitely been an interesting time parenting. It's because it's like, like you said, everything is a reflection. It's like, especially with what you've been through with double. I mean, I can't even imagine. It's like hitting you from both ends and then you also have to show up as a parent, but then you're looking at yourself as the mother. It's a mind fuck. Totally. It's totally been a mind fuck. And I think it's funny because a lot of the interviews I do, everyone kind of is like, well, do you feel like so proud of yourself for breaking the generational trauma?

you feel like like putting me or like giving me this responsibility that I've you know that I are a weird question and also people keep saying like how did you break your family's curse or something and I'm like that's so intense but also I'm like I definitely am a human and having like very human experiences of grief and sadness and and difficult emotions and I definitely don't feel like I've like done anything special I think they don't know what to say. I know. I think that it was suicide specifically. And can you imagine how long ago, this was so long, no one wanted to even touch that word.

Yeah. It was like, someone told me to lie and say my mom died of brain cancer. It's crazy. People did not want to touch that word. So I think even now, they don't know what to say to you. And so what they do is to overcompensate is they'll put you on a pedestal. Right. As you're like, wow, you're alive.

We just said, it's time. I mean, this is not obviously timely, but we just did this episode with him yesterday. And he was saying just this. He's like, people just don't know how to behave or what to say or how to say it or how to respond or even how to have. Totally. We talk about so many things as a people, but like people are so uncomfortable talking about death. Death. It's crazy.

And also like, you know, things that are considered, especially suicides. Like, we just like, we're so uncomfortable with it. It's so uncomfortable. And I'm like, hate to break it to you. Like, you're going to have to confront it. point you know yeah not not that it has to be such a violent experience but like I think also it's I was saying to someone recently like it it's viewed as like a failure too like that then people are constantly like I'm so sorry and of and of

course it's tragic but like everyone's gonna die and so I think that the sort of like like my feelings around death have changed so drastically in the the last few years losing two family members and I just feel like the conversation around dying like first of all it like doesn't happen but also like I I actually went to I found it so isolating what you're what you're saying how nobody really knew it to say and it was really uncomfortable for everybody else and I'm like yeah of course it's uncomfortable for you but it's also extremely uncomfortable for me and not being able to talk about it is you know, it isn't great.

So I went and I had to like find people, I had to find podcasts and things that were, you know, that made me feel a little bit less alone in that experience. And through that I found out that there's something called a death dula, which is basically like a birth dula, but for, you know, people who are dying. And so I went and like trained to become a death duel. And so I was like, how can I like help people be less uncomfortable

talking about, you know. That's amazing. I've never heard of that. Well, it's just like, again, like, we were just talking, this is a universal thing that everybody is going to experience at some point, whether it's to a loved one or to a friend or to yourself, obviously to yourself.

Like, nobody's escaping it. Specifically with suicide or drug addiction death. Sorry, I wasn't saying suicide or, no, I know. No, I'm just, no, no, no, we kind of went like totally off course. They just don't even know what to say. Yeah, I think that suicide's really specific because people are really afraid of it. Yeah.

It feels really violent and like, I don't know, people just are really, really, really scared. There's a taboo now. There's a taboo. Didn't he say yesterday? Oh, we were with David Kessler yesterday? He's my grief therapist. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

That's amazing. That's who I went yesterday. Yeah, awesome. He's amazing. So I found him. I found him, and he was the only person I could find, and I called him. And I was like, can you please come help my family. And he, I bet he was there a second.

He drove over from wherever he lives. and he was like, I can be there tomorrow. Like, I was like, please mop us up off the floor. And he really helped. He really helped. Some people you meet like that, and we do a lot of these shows, obviously. And you meet some people like that. You're like, that is like a good person.

Yeah. Like, just like a good person. The most amazing thing was, so I found him because I searched in podcasts, like, what did I search? Grief. Like, what did, I don't know. I don't know what I searched, but his name came up. and I showed it to my husband

and I was like, find him. Like, I don't know how, because we were, this was days after. Is your husband like Dog the Bounty Hunter? Yeah, literally. And I, I, uh, we were in such a state of shock. This was right after my brother passed.

It was I couldn't, I literally couldn't lift my body off the, like I would just lay on the ground in the summer and I couldn't get out of bed and my parents were just like destroyed. And, um, and so he reached him. And I was so,

surprised that he was so responsive. He wrote back in a few hours and then he was like, I'll come over. And so he came over and he did his grief therapy and talked to us. And when he left, I was like, how do I pay you? And he was like, I don't charge. That's not saying that. I'm telling you. I was like, what? He came in yesterday. We spent a lot of time with them on and off camera. Yeah. And like you just, some people you meet you like that, like person is a, certain people like that.

Yeah. The book that helped me with my mom's death the most was you can heal your life by Louise Hey. Oh, wow. I'm talking to him yesterday and I'm like, your energy reminds me of Louise Hay. Yeah. She's dead now. Yeah.

He's like, Lauren, I wrote a book with her. That's amazing. He ran down to his car. I've read every single book by this woman. For some reason, the one that he wrote has never been served to me. He brought me the book. It's called You Can Heal Your Heart and it's all about death. Wow.

So now I have to read that one. Those are my two books that I would recommend for anyone dealing with grief. The book You Can Heal Your Life is amazing. But he does have that energy of Louise Hay. It's a really pure energy. And the fact that he deals with grief on a day-to-day basis and helps so many people is really incredible. Yeah. And your mother was still alive when your brother passed.

Yeah. My mother and David were very close. she kind of came over all the time and did like they would do grief groups together for other parents and she wanted to do a podcast with him like they were very close and he helped her immensely wait did you realize that that was the guy when you found him on the podcast for grief the guy that your mom did stuff with no I found him oh you found him and then your mother connected and then my mother connected with him got it got it and he just was at our he basically was at our house every day for a few months and really helped my family through like the worst part of of the grief.

And so what was your relationship like with your mother when all that was going on? Were you? We were all living together in her house. Me, my dad, my mom, my sisters, and some of my friends would stay over and it was during COVID. So it was really isolating. What an uplifting time. I know. So it was pretty gnarly.

And the thing is, is that he would come over, but really all he would. would do, not all he would do, was talk to us about my brother and be there and sort of just witness the grief. And so it's not like he was like doing some magic spell, you know, like, you want to tell all the friends. Yeah, exactly. Just be present in the other person's pain, you know. But he was remarkably helpful and is a truly wonderful person. You say in your book, You said that when that happened with your brother, one of your immediate thoughts was about your mom. You thought, like, you knew. How did you know that?

I think that she and him had a really special relationship. So there was that. Only son. She has two twin sisters, two little sisters. Yeah. Only son, and he was like her favorite, you know, to be, you know, straightforward. would not out of me and out of me and him well probably was like reminded her of her dad for if i i'm sure you know and they looked really similar yeah they did he looked a lot like her father and they

had a really incredible bond and she also like wouldn't watch movies where parents lost children like couldn't handle like even conceptualizing a parent losing a child um and she it was like her worst nightmare. She would talk about it. She had a friend, friends who lost children and she was like, I wouldn't make it. I would not make it. I would die. I don't think I would make it either. And she would say it all the time. So I kind of just knew. I knew that she would, wouldn't make it. So how did you show up for your mom then? Like how, how are you even strong enough to show up for your mother knowing that and also just losing your brother? So the amazing thing that happened, or the unexpected thing that happened actually was when my brother died, I was,

like, we were all grieving differently, of course, but I needed help, like, from them. And I was really not doing well. And so our dynamic changed a bit. Like, my parents kind of were being the sort of responsible ones, handling the funeral service and all of that. And and I was like I can't get out of bed. And so I was in a different role than I normally was, which was not what I would have anticipated, but they were actually taking care of me through that because it was really hard on me.

But that was probably really nice for you. It was. And so I think that, yeah, they both kind of stepped up, you know, in this beautiful way together as like a non-married couple. And, you know, obviously they were devastated, but I think in that moment they were taking care of me more than I was taking care of them. Such a cute gift that my mother-in-law got me.

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So we all upload images and they circulate throughout the family. So I can see what's going on with my nieces and nephews or my kids' grandparents. And then I can also pepper in our family. And so when anyone comes over, everyone has a picture of themselves. It's amazing. It's in my guest room. I also have one downstairs in the family room. My kids absolutely love it. It's white. It's chic. You can personalize it and preload it, which is cool. So if you wanted to give a gift of a bunch of photos to a friend or family, this is a really special way to do it. How I would do this and how I think I will do this for the holidays is like I'll gift this to my dad. And I'll upload a bunch of different fun photos that we've taken throughout the years. And then I'll also do ones from when I I was little so he can like have his whole memory bank right on an aura frame. Save on the perfect gift by visitingoraframes.com to get $35 off or is best selling a carver matte frame by using promo code Skinny at checkout. That's AuraFraFraimS.com promo code skinny. This specific deal is

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supported you? It seems like you have a real solid relationship with him. We do. He's like, he's like the most solid person ever and very like stable emotionally. Amazing for you. Yes. And he feels sort of like an angel in a way that I was kind of given to help me through all of this stuff. Better talk about me like I'm an animal. And so I don't know.

I just feel very grateful. Like he's a kind of person like I'm a, I can get anxious or catastrophe. catastrophize things. He's very like, very calm and stable. So it's been really nice to have that. Did you hear that? You're calling an angel? No, that's offense. And how has it been being a mother balancing everything you're balancing, the book, how do you, how do you juggle all these balls and do it effectively? A lot of work. It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And I do work a lot of work.

You know, like I like working. So I'm really busy. I work more than my husband. He has been amazing. And he's not a stay-at-home dad. He works, but he's like, he's travels everywhere with me. So I, you know. So, yeah.

So he kind of holds it down a bit and lets, allows me to work, which is amazing. And I don't know, we just make it work. It's really hard. So at this point, do you like writing more? do you like acting more do you like what do you like I mean now that you've done like I feel like she's an octopus well you've had success obviously as an as an author yeah and as writer and as an like what do you find your kind of like sweet spot now or is it just kind of they're just different like I I love performing as an actor um a lot I love writing it's a very like um isolated experience

whereas acting is like very you know more social I guess you're doing with the team you're like with around people um and directing is also very fun. I really enjoy all of those things. Writing a book was really different and hard. I don't know if that's something I would, you know, do again. Only a cycle. Why did you do it? Like what was the, like in the beginning when you... It's like she had to close the gap for her mom. Because my mom, okay, she literally started writing a book. Okay. And she, uh, in the middle of that my brother died and she was like I don't want to write this book anymore I don't care about

this book I only care about writing about grief and your brother and I was like well you have to write this book because you're in the middle of it so you needs to be finished and had you read any of it or you I hadn't I had read like I'd read like the proposal and like a few things um and but not really. I was kind of actually staying out of out of it. And then she in December, like a month before she died, came to me and she

called me with her manager and she was like, I don't want to write this book. I know I have to finish it. I don't want to talk about myself. Like I think she was feeling very like why am I writing a book about myself? And I kind of was like, I think the problem is you are expecting this to feel

like like a salation. celebrity, like you're expecting this to be like another like star magazine kind of a thing. And I was like, and it needs to be something really elegant and beautiful about your life. And she was like, well, can you do it? And I was like, I'm sure. Yeah, I can, I'll help you for sure.

And then she died. And so I felt like I had to. Yeah. That makes sense. And when you read it like there's different fonts. So like you can like see her writing who's writing and who's and actually the audiobook's really cool because you can hear Julia Roberts is my mom and then I'm me and then you also there's intros to each chapter that is my mom. Why did Julia Roberts do it? Just like did you?

I don't know. I just asked her and she said yes. Do you have a relationship? No. Oh, you didn't? I didn't. I just sent it to her and she like responded to the book and she said yes. but she was the only person, like, they published.

Not that she's not amazing. I was just like, oh, is this like someone that you were like close with? No, I never matter in my life. She just, there was a list they sent of actors who could read my mom's part. And she was the only person that I felt had this sort of strength that my, like, in her voice that felt right to me. And so she was the first person we asked. And she said she would do it. And I was just like totally blown away.

What has surprised you the most after this came out and it's become such a huge hit? What are some things that are surprised you about it? Well, I mean, it surprised me that it was like a bestseller because I wasn't exactly. You didn't think it was going to. I like to be like, I don't know. I was trying to be like cautiously optimistic, but I didn't know. See, that's my problem because every time I release one, I'm like, this is going to be a huge hit. And then when it's not, like, I'm the opposite.

I'm like, this is going to be the one. But I think there's something to that. Every time I'm like, I think that your, the positivity like, holistically is probably better. It's a lot. Like when we're out to Derni's looking at the mirror

behind me instead of me, it's a lot. I'm going to go through life constantly disappointed as opposed to pleasantly surprised. I think that's my method is I'm like always undersell. So it surprised you that it was a bestseller? Kind of.

Yeah. I did. And I think also the response that people had, the like very human response people had because I think a lot of the time my family has been interacted with in a way that feels not very human. And I think that how much people were relating, surprise me. Are there things that irk you or bother you that people say about you and your family to this day?

That's just like so off base. Oh, that's a good question. I think that it's just not really because I kind of grew up hearing all kinds of. kinds of things all the time and most of it was totally off base so it just kind of felt silly. But recently I think like the idea with this book that like I keep getting asked like I said about like a curse that like a family curse or something. And I just find that so annoying because I'm like it's it's like very human experiences. Like everyone I know has somebody who's like suffered from addiction or lost a parent or lost a sibling or. Well, this is like what I, you know, to observe all this, like we were saying the other day, if you were just anybody else with different grandparents or different parents.

You'd be like, that's a person who has. Yeah. Like I was giving an example yesterday. We had somebody that's got a very well-known, prominent platform. And they talked about like how they sleep with their children. And it was like somebody machine gun firing publications. Like, oh, my God, this. And I'm like, if anybody else on the world said they slept with their kid.

Right. No one would think about it. Exactly. Because it was this person. It was literally like news article after news article. I'm like, does anyone really give a shit? Yeah, exactly. And everyone's commenting on their opinion.

I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, yeah. So I think that that like the dehumanizing, I guess, a little bit where it's like can bother me. Sometimes you know what? I also don't care. Yes, because it's like exposure therapy. You've put yourself out there so many times. It's like, doesn't, it's like, I'm good.

I've done it so many times I'm over it. Yeah, I think that there's the truth is, is there's not. much that it bothers me in terms of like press stuff I don't really doesn't really affect me well the press people are going to hate me saying this but like it's not really even relevant anymore

like everyone when people say like oh look at it you got featured in this or I'm like nobody care I mean also in this time not going to get me anymore story I was going to write about the fucking podcast right but every time I see I'm like great maybe that'll like give me a boost I would make the argument that a lot of these old publications they need these kind of things more than we need them. I mean, it's not like the old days

when you pick up on us weekly or people. Nobody's paying attention anymore. Yeah, I know. And then that's the other thing is things are just sort of come and go and I just like don't care. People are like, you need press. And I'm like, why? Well, because you need it. And I go, why? Because it's important to

have them talking about. But I'm like, nobody is paying attention to them. But I will say I pay attention to podcasts. But that's different. That's what I'm saying. Oh, you're going to put yourself in a different category? Of course, I always do. But the public, the point is, is like, I think that kind of like salacious, clicky, let's pick apart.

Totally. I think people don't care anymore. No, no. Like, everybody's got flaws. Everybody's got a human condition. Totally. Nobody. Which is great.

I think it's the downfall of people that are hanging up. People want substance now. They want to know who the person is, what they have to say. Yeah. It makes sense, though, why everyone's damming you in a humanized, a human way. Like, it's like the book did that. It made. your story like approachable?

I think that's, that's, to rephrase it, like, what I'm most proud of is that it's, like, there's a sort of, like, mythology of my family. And I think that the, like, the DMs, I'll read my DMs and people will say things during the book tour. And it's very, like, I also experienced grief or I also experienced addiction. It's not like, oh, Elvis and Lisa or whatever, you know, it's very human stuff. And I think my mom, like, that's why she wanted to write a book, really. About grief.

About grief and addiction and her struggles and just her life as a human being and wanting to connect with other people. Well, I think what people would, you know, they see someone who has that kind of platform and comes from the background. She comes from and they're like, oh, like these people are human and they struggle with the same human things that we all. And I think it's relatable, right? It's like, oh, like everybody has problems. Everybody has struggles. But what's cool about all of it is that it sounds like your mom wanted to focus on grief. and the book did that.

It didn't make it, like you said, about Elvis. Lisa Marie. It's like the book helped people. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. Like that's so full circle. Yeah.

Okay. Everyone needs to go check out the book. What are you working on? Where can they get the book? Tell us all the things. I'm sure you already follow Riley. I love following her. You can get the book like anywhere you get books.

The audio book. and I'm not just saying this is really beautiful. Like I think that it's on Audible. And I really recommend it just because you get, it's a totally different experience. I recommend both, but I really enjoy the audio book. What am I working on?

Like, you know, I'm just finished filming a movie. I'm still an actor. When you go and you do something that heavy, do you have to like go into something a little lighter after or can you keep going on the heavy subjects? Well, I've never done anything. Like I've done a lot of heavy work.

as an actor, but never anything that's like real. Like when I'm, like my real life. Like when I'm, when I'm, when I'm. Who's acting? When I'm acting, I don't like recall my own trauma. Like, I don't really use my own stuff. So this was a very different experience. Like, and it was very intense and very heavy.

And so honestly, I was like very happy for it to be over. And I was happy to be done writing it. But it was really cathartic because I think that there's really something in, like sharing your story and just being really honest and open that helps you process what happened. It's partic and amazing. Is there anything I forgot to ask you this that you wish you included in the book that you didn't? Anything I wish I included in the book? Anything.

Like is there anything that you were like, I wish I included that? Or do you feel like you got it all out? I think there was a lot of things that felt like my experience that I didn't put in the book because it was my mom's book. Uh-huh. And so there were moments where I was like, I want to really share this thing, but that's for another time and place and maybe for my memoir when I'm 80. Maybe you and your daughter will write a memoir together.

That's a really good idea. And she can do the same thing that you guys did. Don't you think it's strange when people write a memoir when they're 35 and they're still going? That's why I didn't write my memoir. I just like focused on her. Because there's some people that are like, this is my memoir. And I'm like, dude, you're 35 years old. Like, you got to keep going.

I know. And that's another thing on this press tour, people keep asking, like, when's your memoir? I'm like, hopefully not soon. I feel like we got to mix the questions up with the process. I know. Like in my memoir, Lord, I think about this. We got to get creative. I agree.

In my memoir, I would like, because I fantasize, I'm like, one down. When are you going to write a memoir? Well, so I'll tell you. But this would be like, we would be like 20% into the story in my memoir at this point. Okay, like this. Like, we'd be like if the book was a thousand pages, this is like two, page 200. Yeah. That's my hope.

Okay. So that I got like 800 more to go. Wow. And I'd be like, there was this one old time when I used to talk on this microphone to people. But it would be like a blip on like the thing. Because I got a lot of shit I got to keep doing. Okay. I can't wait for that chapter.

You can make it. Maybe I'll do the commentary. That would be cute. Yeah. Well, let's see how long you make you in the memoir. Like, hopefully you can get past the 20%. Are you in the memoir? I can't get away from the memoir.

I'm on every fucking page since I was born. You guys have been together for a long time. I was thinking about this as you were talking. Let's just make it about me for a second. Okay, please. I'm enjoying this. I was thinking about this as you were talking. I was like, well, you got to listen to your mother talking in these tapes.

And then I was like, holy shit. Like, our kids could potentially like listen to it all sorts of weird shit. Yeah, that's kind of creepy. They will. They'll listen to every single thing. Like, if my mom had hosted a podcast, I would definitely be listening to everything. There's like 800 things they can hear. So be careful. You've got to delete all the sex ones before I go.

Yeah. Before they're like, yeah, able to. Hopefully my son or my daughter, like, as I'm like, they can like help me finish my memoir, too. Yeah. If you're listening to this son in 20. It's not about your memoir. You're 2016. You better help me.

But you know what? You reminded me like something that was so special was having all these hours of my. my parent telling their whole life story. It's amazing. And I'm like, everyone should do that. Do you know how bad I wish I had that? You were so lucky. Everyone should just like take their parent and give them a day and be like, okay, let's start from the beginning.

You know what we've thought about doing. It's hard to get some of them to focus. I know. I'm like, Dad. You know what we've thought about doing? Daddy. Daddy. Little Papa.

Daddy. Thank Papa, Daddy. We've thought about doing this and I want to do this, but anyone can do this. Because podcast equipment these days, or just even recording equipment is not that expensive. I've thought about with Lawrence sitting each of our parents down and doing what we do, but not releasing it. You absolutely should. And doing actually conducting an interview with them about their life and going through it. You don't have to release it.

But I think like everyone could do that with their parents. I mean, most people like that lose a parent have the voicemail. Yeah, I know. The fact that you have all those tapes, I'm sure it's like it's also, there's different dynamics to it. You also feel a lot. But it's amazing that you have that forever. Yeah. But if you think about it, like, people can just buy equipment and sit down with their parent and, like, record and ask them things about their life.

I think it's like a good thing to do. It's a great thing to do. I, for some reason, feel a documentary. Do you think a documentary is going to happen? I would be open to it because I'm a movie person. So, like, that's more my, I don't know, like, exciting. I mean, I love books, but I think that the idea of a documentary, like, would excite me. It's not something I necessarily would want to direct because it's so personal, but I think that I would be open to it.

When I read it, I'm telling you, I was like, oh my gosh. The phones are going to start ringing. No, they're already ringing, Michael. She's Oprah's Book Club pick, number one national bestseller as well as a New York Times bestseller. Go buy the book from here to The Great Unknown. Riley, thank you for letting me stalk you on Instagram to come on the show. I also stalked you through other people. I was like, she needs to come on, please, please, please.

So thank you for taking the time. Thank you for all of the, like, health recommendations. And I'm pretty sure I found colostrum through you. So thank you for that. From the tit or from the skincare? Is it cowboy colostrum? Did you post that? Armra.

I don't know. You posted one that my daughter's been on and she has not been sick in eight months. You know, I don't get sick anymore either. Oh, we got an end in about you. Okay. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Riley.

Thank you.