The Bossticks - Sara Brooks On Branding Strategies Every Brand Needs To Survive, Grow, & Stay Relevant

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

#817: Join us as we sit down with Sara Brooks – co-founder of Goldilocks, a brand consultancy specializing in consumer packaged goods. Throughout her career, Sara has worked with nearly 200+ CPG brands – ranging from pre-revenue startups to post-IPO giants – dedicating her expertise to founder-led business looking to disrupt the status quo. Previously, she founded & led Covet PR, a powerhouse agency that quickly rose to become an industry leader before being acquired by leading performance marketing firm, Power Digital. In this episode, Sara shares valuable insights on effective brand positioning, the power of creative branding & consistency, meaningful consumer connections, leveraging marketing insights for innovation, & must-know tips for aspiring entrepreneurs. If you are looking to elevate your brand, this one's for you!   To Watch the Show click HERE   To Watch the Show with Kira click HERE    For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To connect with Sara Brooks click HERE   To connect with Goldilocks click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Get your burning questions featured on the show! Leave the Him & Her Show a voicemail at [phone].   This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn's favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   To learn more about Goldilocks and start working with them visit itsgoldilocks.com.   This episode is sponsored by YNAB   TSC Him & Her Show listeners can claim an exclusive three-month free trial, with no credit card required at YNAB.com/skinny.   This episode is sponsored by ARMRA   Go to tryarmra.com/SKINNY or enter SKINNY to get 15% off your first order.    This episode is sponsored by Caraway   Visit Carawayhome.com/theskinny10 or use code THESKINNY10 at checkout to take an additional 10% off your next purchase.   This episode is sponsored by LMNT    Get yours at DrinkLMNT.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Squarespace   Go to squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you're ready to launch, squarespace.com/SKINNY to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.    This episode is sponsored by Cymbiotika   Go to Cymbiotika.com/TSC for 20% off + free shipping. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

Hello everybody. Welcome back to the skinny confidential, him and her show. Today we're sitting down with Sarah Brooks. Sarah is the co-founder of Goldilocks, a brand consultancy specializing in consumer packaged goods. Throughout her career, Sarah has worked with nearly 200-plus CPG brands, ranging from pre-revenue startups to host IPO giants, dedicating her expertise to founder-led businesses looking to disrupt the status quo. Previously, she co-founded and led Covet PR, a powerhouse agency that quickly rose to become an industry leader before being acquired.

In this episode, Sarah shares the valuable insights on effective brand positioning, the power of creative branding and consistency, meaningful consumer connections, leveraging marketing insights and innovation, and must-know tips for aspiring entrepreneurs and creators. If you are looking to elevate your brand, create a brand, get your brand discovered, or just get your messaging honed in, this one's for you. This is for anyone that wants to learn how to build and stand out online. Enjoy. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Wow, I just got out of an incredible two-and-a-half hour meeting with you and your team, you and Heather. We just,

just did a full brand deep dive on everything branding. Yeah. And you did a deep dive into the Skinny Confidential and you guys did this gorgeous presentation about the consumer and testimonials and, you know, what the core mission is. And it was absolutely mind-blowing. Thank you. It exceeded my expectation. Seriously.

Oh, that means a lot. I'm obsessed with, I've been curious my whole life. And I am so obsessed with figuring out why a consumer. we'll purchase one product over another product. I think it's like it's the most interesting kind of experiment I think in humanity is like you go to a shelf, you're at whole foods. There's 300 kombuchas. Why are they going to pick one kombucha over the other? So that's what I get to do this phase in my life is like understand what a brand can offer that is absolutely magical that no one else in the space can and then how to kind of have that come to life. And tell us about

the Halo study. So at Goldilocks, we focus a lot on like figuring out that magical connection between a consumer and a brand. And Halo Top, we like to use this as an example. I always think, like, how can I explain what I do to my mom who still thinks that when a product is on sale at Whole Food? She's like, good job. It's Bogo, honey. I'm like, Mom, I have nothing to do with that. But Halo Top is a super kind of like sleepy ice cream brand in like the mid, you know, 2015. It had a lot of claims on front. It had how many net carbs, how many calories per serving? And it was not doing great. And we had nothing to do with this work. But what happened was they went, oh, they kind of had this huge brand evolution where

they really started to get in the mind of a consumer. And when a consumer is shopping the ice cream category, it's usually a celebration, kids' birthday, they're how to raise at work, or they're like depressed. And they're like, I just want to eat ice cream. And what the work unlocked was that people who are shopping ice cream, they want to just eat the whole damn pint. They don't want to have to think about, okay, there's, you know, seven grams of carbs for this. So they simply took off the claims at front and said the whole thing of ice cream is 270 calories.

Eat the whole pint. They didn't change what was inside. They changed what was outside and how to communicate that. And the business experienced a 2,500 percent growth in one year and just exploded. And I think that's such a powerful example of what the nuances of brand positioning can do. And you really get to know the consumer and you really get to know the category, how to unlock like explosive growth with just, with a shift in positioning. And they sold for $400 million or they did $400 million?

They know. I think they were doing close to $400 million in sales after that. So the tweak in the messaging on the outside, the ice cream didn't change itself. It was just the tweak and the messaging to appeal to the consumer. No one, and they became the best-selling Pite in America. And think about legacy players like Ben and Jerry's and dryers and briars. Everyone else in the category was talking about calories per serving. And like no one wants to know about calories per serving when you eat ice cream.

You just want to eat the whole thing. And so it was a brilliant move that I think really kind of crystallizes what effective brand strategy can do. In 2025, what mistakes are people making and branding? And what would you advise people against who are listening who want to start a brand? I think trying to be everything to everyone is like such a pitfall that brands do. There's, it's, it's, you know, 15 years ago was really hard to launch a consumer brand. People, it was like these, these big kind of, you know, incumbent players like the Kellogg's and the General Mills and the Mondalese and they were the people launching brands. And then with like

people learning how to use the internet and influencer marketing, all these people started launching brands, which is great. It democratized the process. But people in order to kind of survive, and I'm not talking about fundraising, I'm not talking about any of that, you really have to figure out your singular point of difference. And if you're trying to be going back to Halo Top, if you're shouting all these claims, it's really confusing for the consumer. They don't understand and why you and not someone else. And so what we do is like really try to like dumb down in the most simplest terms what you offer that no one else can offer and why are doing it best.

Like brand strategy is you think about consumer demand, you think about competition, and you think about what you uniquely can offer. And that kind of middle part is where all the magic happens. What are like the main things that brands that win have? Like maybe there's a lot of things. But like what are like some of the, when you think about why a consumer would choose one thing over the other. Like what makes those brands win at the core?

I think clarity. I think community. I think, you know, I often get asked like, what brands are killing it these days? And like some brands that I love are like Graza, the olive oil brand. And they went to a category that was a commodity, like olive oil. And they are, their messaging is not like, we harvest, you know, olives from these like, you know, ranches. Maybe there's not ranches in Italy, like fields in Italy.

They just made it in a squeezable format like chefs use. And it gave people to have fun in the kitchen. And they had really fun branding. And they had a character that was a mascot. So again, for them, it wasn't what was inside? It was like, what was the white space? Fishwife is another great example because it's tin fish. Like if you think about tin fish and like caviard, no, it's such like a stodgy category.

And they brought fun to it. So it can be a mix of fun branding. It can be a mix of clear positioning. Going back to, I think, what brands sometimes do that isn't, isn't good is it's so easy to get caught on the trend, like on the bandwagons of trends. We talked about this earlier. With the constant 24-7 news cycle, so many things come out and people have shiny object syndrome. So they're like, oh, well, if we just did this and we just did that. But again, you're starting to kind of fragment what you offer people.

So I think it's some of what we always tell people is stay focused, you know, stay focused, stay consistent while also giving like 20% room for fun. You at Goldilocks work with some of the biggest brands in the world. And before that, you also worked with huge influencers and we're going to get into that. What is the unicorn brand? When you see all these huge brands, where do you point and you look and you say that's a unicorn and why? It's a really good question. I think that there's brands that I think like if you look at like an apple or you look at like a Patagonia,

those brands, those like huge, huge brands, everyone knows what they stand for. The product experience is exceptional. The way that they foster community is great. And I think those are like icons in the space, even like Subaru. like Subaru sold love and they sold love through safety of a car and all their commercials are about like taking care of family. And so I think it's these brands that like time and time again, no matter what they launch, there's an expectation and quality because they have just cemented what they offer that no one else can that they do the best and they hit consumers over the head with that time and

time and time again. If there's an audience member that's listening right now and they want to launch a brand today, how would you guide them? Say like your cousin texts you. What is like the Sarah blueprint that you're giving them? I think it's a it's becoming absolutely obsessed with the consumer. It is like you, you cannot, you cannot, like you don't have necessarily a right to launch a brand unless you know like who's going to buy it and why do they want to buy it. Especially if you're going to try to charge more. Like with the rise and not right, but like with Amazon and with the commodification of everything. Like people can get almost anything, anytime, anywhere, just with their fingertips. So you have to have a strong case for like why they should pay for a premium product,

why they should buy your brand, not that brand. And I think it's just, you know, it's a million things all at once. But I think it's going back a lot to simplicity. It's going back to the consumer and just being knowing what makes them tip. When they're shopping in the category, what are they looking for? What are they trading in? What are the universal truths about the category? And so I think what's really powerful about that is like you don't need like a Bain or McKenzie.

Just go talk to people. You know, my Uber driver on the way here was a 41 year old from Russia. And I was talking to him and I was like, so tell me what you do because I cannot not ask people questions. It's my most favorite thing to do. And he was saying, I really, really want to launch a sourdough bread brand. And I was like, oh, are you interested in sourdough? And we talked about this the whole way. and he has this great idea for sourdough bread.

And I was like, go to farmer's markets. Just start talking to people. Like, before you're trying to sell it at sprouts, like go to where the people are at. And I think that is the most powerful thing you can do. And this is so funny, like, even just like, I'm hearing you say this and I'm thinking about just the way we work into your media. And it's like the same thing for people that want to create a content business.

Everybody's always trying to figure out all the bells and the whistles and the money and all that. I'm like, just go and start speaking to an audience and put them first. And the rest of the stuff will kind of take care of itself. It's so true. Like all these, everyone's always like, how do you go viral or what's the marketing or what's the PR? Just focus on the person that's actually listening to. Oh my gosh.

If I had a dollar for every time a brand calls me, it's like, I want to go viral. Like the brands that go viral did not intend to go viral. They went viral because they did not intend to go viral. That can also be a double-edged sword. Going viral people don't realize when you go to the moon, it's hard to come back down. I actually think it's more strategic to build a house of brick. Or even worse, like if you're a new brand and you go viral. and you don't have the inventory or the ability to set.

Like, then you're, right. Then you've lost a huge opportunity. 100%. We've worked with a lot of brands that are in Shark Tank. And like when there's, and that's like one example. I would say that's like a comp to going viral. But you have to have the operations behind it to sustain that because the worst thing that can happen is you go viral and then you get pissed customers because they can't buy the product. It's so funny like coming up on almost a decade of doing this show.

It's weird to even like think that we've been doing it this long. But we get asked all the time like, what was the most? And I'll say like there's no moment. It's just been this like long trek. But I'm so grateful because now as we get access to to different people with maybe deeper conversations, if we would have had that in the early days, we wouldn't have been prepared for it. We wouldn't have been like there's when you laid eyes on me on the playground. That was your moment. That was my moment.

Yeah. I don't know if it was like on you specifically. It was like what was. No, that was your moment. But you know what I'm saying is like we're all in such a rush to have this success. But there's something to be said about. the build and the practice of building and getting prepared for when these moments actually happen. Totally.

I think now there's so many, a lot of the recent conversations we've been in, if we would have done them in the early days by going viral, we would have been underprepared. We would have been way too nervous. We would have not had the plot. There's just so many things. So I'm grateful now that it's taken time. That and I would also add grateful for all the things that didn't work. It's like I've learned, and I mean, this sounds so trite in terms of talking about entrepreneurship,

but I've learned so much more from like all the bombs and all the failures. I also think that sometimes, you know, when people are trying to figure out what their brand is and what they change along the way. And so having a little bit more time to kind of really get clear about who you are and what you want to convey is important. So like having all these viral moments where then like the market's dictating what you need to do as a person. And there's no flexibility to evolve and change. Talk to us about how you founded Covet. it, what was the epiphany to finding it? And then I also, to founding it and then also talk to us about it getting acquired, because that's pretty major that you do that it's such a young

age. Oh, thank you. And it's funny. I think back to, I think it was 2017 when you came to covet and you're like, this is what an influencer does because we both were living in San Diego at the time. I think, you know, going back to like what makes something or someone successful, it's never like they're the world's best. It's perfect timing. It's like market conditions, if you will. And so when I had been doing PR, I started my career in television and e-news and MTV, I wanted to be a talk show host. So I was like, I'm just going to, you know, work behind the scenes and figure out how TV shows are made. And what reality shows were you on? By the way, Sarah, you're good on a mic. I could see you doing a talk show. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.

I was on the really the cinematic masterpiece that was Room Raiders. Okay. I was given my own black light. It was very exciting. To look for semen. You know, at the time I was so naive. I thought I was looking for like not semen, but now I realized I was probably probably looking for semen. That is kind of fucked up that they give you a black light with no context. Yeah. Like what if you do like how are you supposed to know you're looking for semen? I found dust with my black light and I think that was anti-comatic for the producers. I went through I rated three rooms and that was fun. I was on dismissed which was like do you remember that? Of course. Of course. And then one and he says no to one of them? Yeah, I was dismissed. I was two

Bubbly. I don't think they can make that show these days. I don't, oh, there are so many things when you go back to MTV. That guy made the wrong bet. He would be like, he'd be really happier. Blaine, wherever you are. You made the wrong bet. And then Wheel of Fortune. Wheel of Fortune where I should have watched Harry Potter the night before because the fictional, the category is fictional place. It was Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. If you did not watch Harry Potter, you were just not knowing.

But I won $7,000. I did lose my Ford Focus as I turned over the wedge and I got bankrupt. But I did all of this because I was just so curious. And I wanted to understand if I'm going to go do something, I want to start like on how it's made versus trying to do it. So I started my career in PR and probably 2006 or 2007. I moved to New York. I wrote a book on dating, not published because I said yes to anyone who asked me out on a date because I just was so curious, like, where are you from? What's your story? So I mean, yeah, that's a whole other episode. So my goal was to move to New York to become a columnist like Carrie Bradshaw, Sex in the City, and just do that. And I'm so lucky with how naive I was because I just like one thing I don't have a problem with is like I have blinders on and like I'm not worried about feeling.

I'm not worried about rejection. So I went to New York. That didn't happen. I did not get my own. I did not publish my book. And I kind of stumbled into PR and I did PR in New York for a long time and I moved back to Southern California. And how to answer your question, I'm obsessed with consumer products because there's no personification. Like unlike celebrities or talent, it's just sitting on a shelf.

So I think it's like such a challenge, like how to make a product speak to on shelf. And I, this was kind of when the wellness boom is happening like, you know, cold press juice and kombuchas. And there was no firm that was hyper focused on Better for You brands. You had the idea and started covet. And you got Soudra as a client. No, no. I mean, now it's all connected. for me. But you're so right because there was that moment in time when a lot of those businesses

started emerging and they were like new. Now everybody sees these, but there was nothing. We didn't have these options. We didn't. It was all like crunchy granola. It wasn't like mainstream. And like now you go to Airwant and you pay like $40 for an assayable and like consumers are okay with that because they've been prime for 10 years to pay more for food. But back then it was kind of an anomaly. There wasn't really anyone focused on that. When San Diego was I was wondering like, okay, New York But now that I think about it, like it was a little hub for that health stuff. Oh, totally. Was Suja like a huge client for you at the time?

Or was that something that you guys sort of built up together? What was that like? So Suja at the time, and I know we're both friends with Annie. And Annie and her business partner at the time, Eric were just delivering juice. Like, he on a skateboard. That's amazing story. She worked in, you know, she worked at a yoga place and they were delivering it. So it was, it wasn't even wasn't in real like, I think like commercial packaging at that time.

We had some of that early juice. Yeah. It's so good. Wouldn't they making it out of the kitchen? Yeah. Yeah. At Enlightenment hospitality. Yeah.

Yeah. And so that was my first client. I mean, they were at that point, you know, when you think about revenue, I don't eat hundreds of dollars a month in revenue. I mean, they were a baby. And I took kind of the same approach I did for beauty brands in New York. And I applied it to a juice brand. And I was trying to get like beauty editors talking about juice when historically they were talking about mascara. And so that was a really, I think a big opportunity to kind of say like pay attention.

like this isn't just a food. This is like a lifestyle brand. And I was very, very lucky. Sujo was my first client when I went on my own and you always have to kind of, the rule of thumb is you kind of have to, when you start a firm or an agency, like you need one big marquee client. And I was super lucky that Suja took a chance on me. And that was kind of the beginning of it. What were the next sort of momentum with the clients? Who were the other clients that you started signing? And why do you think you were acquired? Like what was that like unicorn? Well, I think what was unique about us is, and it's the same thing when we do at Goldilocks, which is like we're revenue agnostic. So we work with brands like Epic Bar, which was based

in Austin. And we took them through their acquisition with General Mills. But we worked, we started with them and they were really small. And like we, I just would fall in love with the founder and their mission and like didn't really care what they were paying. I was just like, could this be the next big thing? And then I think that loyalty went two ways. And so as the brands grew, we grew. And like, you know, I took Beyond Meat through their IPO, which at that time was like, you know, everyone in their mother was talking about it. So we, you know, I think though, like my favorite brands are the earlier stage brands, the ones that are still trying to figure it out. It sounds like you really like the build and the early messaging. I love to build. I love to build.

I love that like messy process in the beginning figuring it out. I love it. And then explain how power digital, which is a marketing performance in San Diego, a company. Explain how you start sort of, did you merge with them or were you acquired? I was fully acquired by that. So, yeah, I, Power Digital at that time is about 150 people. I know you know, Grayson. I think you guys both went to you of A together. Yeah, we don't talk about those days.

Your wildcat days. So I had been approached over the years to be acquired, and I had no interest. And I think that actually was a great thing looking back. I did not build a company to sell. And you could argue, was that, you know, the right way or the wrong way? but I think there was something like really beautiful in the fact like I had no idea what I was doing. I like still to the day. Like I know what I'm doing, but like 80% I know what I'm doing. And so I had this kind of like leeway of I would take conversations, but I wasn't really interested.

But what was happening, I sold in 2020 and it was becoming increasingly obvious that I couldn't just be a PR firm. Like I had it in corporate performance marketing. Like if you think about PR now, there's affiliate, there's PR. And to be just like a traditional media. firm, like I knew my biggest fear in life is becoming antiquated, whether it's like my services or my, like, I always want to be ahead. And so for me, it was either do I acquire, do I like go out and buy another firm or do I merge? And Power Digital was phenomenal. They had the same values. And so it acquired me in 2020. It became the chief brand officer. And then we scaled to about 800 people

during the height of COVID in like 16, 17, 18 months. They were already owned by private equity. And then we sold again to private equity in 2022, which I again, you know, I had no idea how lucky it was to sell twice. Most people like, you know, you sell and you get some cash and then you roll over some equity. And most people think, okay, that equity rolled over. You're probably not going to see again. That's kind of the thought because it's very hard to sell twice. And I was very lucky. I mean, the team was incredible.

Like I learned so, so much. And then I left in 2022, thought I was going to retire for like three seconds. And then I was like, I'm antsy. I want to go do something again. then be honest yes because this part is not talked about enough and i we had the founder of primal kitchen on yeah morgan yes and we asked her this yeah when you sell yeah your celebration with your with your champagne and you like feel like you're going to retire for three seconds yeah what's the come down because there's a come down oh it's like having a wedding oh my gosh on sunday you feel like

you want to right on the railroad track my husband and i were in the car like when the wire hit you know and we're like driving and blah blah blah and it's like you're so excited you're so excited and then it happens and like you enjoy it for like two minutes and then you're like you know and it feels it feels like it feels like it's like you're just stripped yeah and i think you know you guys i imagine feel like this so much too like your work becomes part of your identity good or good or bad it becomes part of your identity and i was you know for so long that was like such a focus that i think part of why i was like why next is as i was i was to be totally candid i was uncomfortable in the unknowing of just not doing anything.

Like I, I, and I'm not good in those moments of just kind of like waiting. I'm a very impatient person. And so for me, I think it was this incredible achievement. But then I'm like, okay, what can I go do next? Here's like the mind. Fuck, I'll use this thing. People get mad when I cuss. But the mind fuck is that most people that we've met that go on to build a great

business and sell it are highly productive. ambitious people. Yeah. And then to then have that exit and sell the thing that you took so much time to build and then say like, okay, now you're done. Like it just, it doesn't work with those kind of people. So I think a lot of people that see people like yourself that sell companies, like, oh, I wish I could do that. But the reason you did it is because you're ambitious and highly productive and curious and all these things. And so you're not all of a sudden going to turn all that off because that's your personality. And it's impossible to turn it off. So you can't enjoy like people like there's no enjoying sitting on the beach. Totally. Totally. And I think for me,

you know, I had two babies during covet. I got married during covet. My husband and I stayed up so many nights being like, okay, how do we do this? How do we do that? I mean, it was like the third partner in our marriage. You know, it'd be kind. I mean, you guys know this better than anyone. Yeah, it's a threesome. And so I think it's just a total dynamic shift in everything and it takes some time to get used to. When did you start to see white space for Goldilocks? What propelled you to do that? Yeah, so I had a non-compete. So, and people are like non-competes are BS. But, but I, I don't, I'm like very afraid of the law. So I just like really honor things that are in legal formation. And so for me, it was like I can't do PR anymore. And I've been doing PR for 20 years.

And it was like, what's PR adjacent? And my, I have two brilliant business partners. And when I started, it was just Heather and I. Now it's Heather Rachel and I. And Heather really like open my eyes to brand strategy because so many brands would come and they would have this great brand. And like the PR wasn't hitting. And you and I talked about. this. Like PR is not this like silver bullet. Like you really have to know what you're offering, what you're giving that no one else can. And so we together were like, okay, is, is there an opportunity here to like really help brands with like the most critical part of their business, which is the foundation for why they exist? And it was PR adjacent. It's the same

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Go to tryarmor.com slash skinny or enter Skinny to get 15%. percent off your first order. That's T-R-M-R-M-R-A-com slash skinny. We spend a ton of time talking about ingredients and foods to avoid and things not to eat on this show and things to eat, but are you aware that your actual cooking supplies and utensils could be a big culprit in bringing microplastics into your life? This is why Lauren and I love Carraway. It's why we've switched all of our household supplies when it comes to cooking and food storage to Carraway. We had the founder of Carraway on this show. If you just search the skinny confidential caraway, you can find that episode where we dove deep into what they're doing and what they're building at caraway.

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I've hired a PR firm and then you expect them to go do the research on the brand along with a lot of conference calls. And there's something that's there's a link that's not. missing. And what's missing is what you just said. So what I've decided to do is I took a beat on PR. We worked with you guys to get so dialed out and have such clarity around our mission and our brand. So now when I do decide to bring on PR, I can go to them with this beautifully tied present up in a bow and say, here's on the silver platter, everything you need to know. These are the guidelines. I'm curious at like, let's say there's someone who's listening. that has a brand. Let's pick on Michael. Okay. Michael has Dear Media. Yep. I want you to work with Dear Media. So maybe you could use

this as an opportunity to multitask. Let me pitch you some business right now. So Michael has dear media. He also has PR. I believe that he needs like this, this, this guideline that's done. I also think it should be done by someone who's outside of the organization because people inside the organization are too close to the picture. You need someone to step back and look at it pragmatically. How would you pitch to him to work with him and what would, you offer if he already has PR? Well, you already told me you just, when you fall in love with people, you're cheap. Yeah.

I have, yeah. Oh, man. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's evolved. I think, so I, one, I would say I am by far not a preeminent, you know, podcast network expert, but when you think about, like, Lemonada and you think about Spotify and you think

all of those, like, being here in the Dear Media Office, I can already tell what you do is so different. Like, looking at the wall of the. host that are framed. Like you guys have found like the preeminent experts in the most interesting categories that people want to listen to. Is that properly getting communicated? No, because she just called it a podcast network. There you hear that? She just called it. And what is it? It's what's funny. So I'll, I'll explain it. So I think like when people bring up, and listen, no shade, like if it's serious or I heart or Lemonade or whoever else is creating audio like primarily producing

podcast, we operate so much differently. A lot of these companies, they're in production. Maybe they don't do their own sales. They have no focus on commerce. They sell in a very singular lane, which is audio. Use a lot of programmatic tools and a lot of that. They're not really... Not vertically integrated. They're not vertically integrated. And, you know, their focus is really on the success of that audio property. For me, it's like we're multi, we're audio, video, we're live events. We're invested in commerce businesses. I recognize that really just the attention of capturing a dedicated audience, which in our case happens to be primarily female, then is you're able to aggregate that audience into. other monetizable opportunities, whether that's products or live events or whatever it may be premium content fast. But it's like I just, I look at almost like, I look at the media channels as kind of just the flywheel to service other opportunities. A lot of people don't realize like dear media is on, you know, 12, 15 cap tables of commerce businesses. What did Emily say from FeedMe? Oh yeah. I mean, so we were reading Emily Sundberg, Substack, who, who I love. And basically just like, She was saying if you were to take the headphones off, every girl walking down 14th Street in Manhattan, they're probably listening to a Dear Media podcast.

Well, that's nice. Emily, thank you. But I would say the flip side is like you probably haven't gone the attention you deserve if you pair that fact. So where is there areas of opportunity in terms of crystallizing the message? Did I win the business? And actually, we should talk. We should talk. I have been. Productive meeting.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Maybe my so-called competitors or other people in the space will hear this. I've been very intentional about not participating in anything having to do with the podcast space. I don't go to the summits. I don't participate in like the things. I don't talk for podcast reporters really anymore. Like I understand that like we're doing a podcast, but I look at this as a show. As a show. Yeah. It's audio. It's video. It's all. And I think the podcast space in general has done a really good job of pricing itself down and getting very little attention. Like if I was to pick on the executives that is, that existed here before me. I would say you've lost. in early negotiation with agencies and have allowed them to dictate the pricing of the market.

I would say you've only focused on one subset of the creators channels, which is audio. I think that you've done it in a very like, hey, go to skinny.com. There's such greater opportunity. And for me, like I just like the goal from Dear Media is to basically bring this into the mainstream, which I think it's like this, if election did anything, it's helped kind of articulate that these are important platforms, but that they're not just limited to some audio app and they're widely distributed across every relevant platform. And so I think like that's nice to hear Emily saying that and I think she's recognizing maybe that we just operate differently than a lot of the people that were here. I mean, and then I'll shut up. A lot of these companies

that started playing in this space were radio companies first and they're now just trying to figure out this kind of medium, but they're using radio tactics to do it. Right. And we don't, and we just don't do it. Well, and I think just by default of what you said, like live of event, you're right, you're 100% right. It's so much more than a podcast network, but like, does the world know that? And how can we let the world know that? So, so say, let's just say you work with Dear Media, what's the process look like? And how can someone emulate the process at home? Yeah, I mean, I think if we're talking about brand strategy, like we always start like what we did today, Lauren, like we start by interviewing diehard consumers. So like, who are the people that like

listen to 14 Dear Media shows? Who are people that go to events? Why are they coming to you? So If you want to do that at home and you have a brand, like go stand in front of your local farmer's market and interview people after they buy your product. I mean, it's so easy. You know, you can get much more sophisticated by like, you know, when we do it, we ask 200 questions and we're looking for little nuances and body language. And we're probing more. And so there definitely is an art to that interview to get more.

But you could certainly start like very grassroots by just talking to your heavy users. And then alternatively, if you talk to people who have never heard of your media, but only listen to Lemonada shows. Why haven't they heard of Dear Media? What is Lemonada offering? And so you talk to people that are diehards and you talk to people who are shopping the category or in this case listening to other podcasts.

And that's where you start to get a lot of kernels of truth that then you can build upon. Well, you know, it's funny. Even if I'm thinking as you're talking, like looking at Lauren's business, I was talking to somebody the other day. And we talked when you interviewed me when you were doing the dive on her.

And I think what makes her company unique is that she's not looking at like categories and then saying, like, she's kind of just working with the community she has and filling a void that they're asking for. I call it my flow. Yeah. It's a flow. It's flowing with, it's not being like, I am just makeup. Right.

I feel like that's limiting. Yeah. I think like one of the best qualities of an entrepreneur and consumer products is being nimble, but focused. And it's the balance between the two, right? Gillian helps me be focused. Amazing. My COO and my husband. And I definitely, I do think being nimble is so important.

But what I've realized is that the way. the formula, quote on quote, of how to sell that all these people are copying is it's like, it's doing like the five step of this and launching that and then launching the next five step. And I don't want to do it that way. It doesn't light me up. But most importantly, it doesn't like the audience up. If I were to just launch like 60 different beauty tools, I don't think that's what they want. They want to see other categories and perspective. And I want to hear their, as you know, I want to hear their feedback, which you did. And I think, too, like now that you're, not now that you're a mom, Zaja is obviously not brand new, but,

you know, now that you're a mom to two, I think that you think about what's in your home, you know, like what are the products that you're putting on your kids? What are the household things? Like, you've evolved as an entrepreneur, as a media mogul now as a mom. And so like the things that you now are seeking out, you probably weren't seeking out 10 years ago. And the, the listener, the consumer gets to go with you on that journey. And that's so powerful. Can you give them a behind the scenes of what you did for me for the brand? Yeah. Absolutely. Well, it was so funny because I think the conversation started when we ran into each other and you're like, help. What should I do about PR? And where did we run into you? No, you weren't there. We were in. We missed you. We missed you. We was having a bit of a tantrum. Yeah, with the floaties. We needed the floaties. She wanted me to get in the pool in my full clothes. Yes. And I said, honey, I can't get in the pool with my full clothes on. I think I was wearing a full workout outfit. And she didn't understand. Yes. Go ahead. So we were chatting and Gillian's a friend. And we were all just kind of. talking about it. And just in the two or three sentences that you share, like, it's not working.

Like, these are the, these are like, why is this not being communicated? Like, this is what we're doing, blah, blah, blah. I was like, I don't think you have a PR problem. I think you have a brand strategy problem. Yeah. And not everyone, you know, some brands have it nailed down. Sometimes it's the inverse. And so what we started with is really trying to figure out like what, what is the, what is the absolute magic that the Skinny Confidential offers from a podcast's experience and a product experience that no one can. And in order to get there, we had it back way out and talk to consumers. We first started with stakeholder interviews, which is like talking to people who have a very heavy hand in the brand. Then we talk to some amazing super fans that you have that are like

just had the most amazing things to say. And then we talked to people who were familiar with the skin and confidential, but maybe we're buying the products. And that really kind of formed. And it's, it's so powerful. You know, this is qualitative research, but you talk to the fourth or fifth person and you're starting to like hear the same things. There's a thread. There's absolutely a thread. And so what it did for me, if anyone's listening and they want to do like a brand deep dive, is I intuitively know where I think the brand should go, but it solidified and articulated what I was feeling. It made me have immense clarity. So I could look at it and be like, okay, you're right. There's this common thread of people saying the same thing in a different

way, maybe. It also helped me and I thought this was, and you can talk about this more, is it helped me really get clear on the mission statement, which is really important. What are the tips that you would recommend to our audience to get a mission statement? I mean, it sounds so cliche, but like if you're not authentic, like a consumer can sniff out bullshit so easily now. And it's like the biggest turnoff when it comes to like connecting a consumer to a brand. And so I think what we discovered, which we knew and it just validated is like being vulnerable, having this opportunity in these different channels to like say it like it is by bringing in experts by sharing your own point of view like that has that has cemented the authenticity that you have with your audience and we always like

to start there but not everyone has that and sometimes you have to build that but when we think about it at the highest order it's like why you get up to do what you do on a very very like you know 100,000 square foot it's like your your vision and then you start to distill it more okay well then how does this translate to what I say how does this communicate what how is this communicated on product, but you always start with that like big lofty vision, the B-Hag, you know, I want to change the future of food. Like if you're a food brand, you're probably not going to do that tomorrow, but in 30 years you want to do that. So then how do you like kind of dial back to that and reverse engineer that? Go ahead. I have like maybe a different question, but when if you were

consulting somebody who was thinking of starting a brand and they're and they're just like, and they haven't even figured out the category yet, is there any direction you would point them in or or do they have to kind of know the category in the mission? Or can you say like, hey, there's some white space and people, like, but there's a lot of people just think, like, I want to be an entrepreneur sort of business. Yeah. I mean, so like one of my secrets, I think in business, and I think a lot of people do this is like take every call and be curious.

And so I talk to like 100 entrepreneurs a week. And it's my favorite thing to do. I do some screening. Like this week, two days ago, I got a call from like a guy in a basement who was like, I need $100,000. I was like, okay, I'm probably not the right fit. But I still like, love talking. to him and hearing about his food brand. And so I think that there has to be some level of like

preliminary research in the category. You have to know what category you're playing in. And like there's very sophisticated tools that people use once they're ahead, like getting spins data or Nielsen data, or like actual data that like retailers report, you're not going to have access to that. But I think there's ways like information has been so democratized now. I mean, there's trade publications that report on like the decline or the growth of a category. I mean, you can get very crafty on your own. for sure. Yeah, as I was thinking like, you know, as we, when we look at things, we're not, we don't jump necessarily on trends, but we try to figure, one of the things that I think is interesting

about running dear media is you, you sometimes get access to conversations earlier than they pop into the mainstream. Does that make sense? Oh, totally. Like I remember like, you know, obviously this is a fringe one that we're known for, but like these raw milk conversations that are becoming so topical across so many things. Like you start to see those kind of conversations populate amongst a few different shows and you're like, oh, this thing's going to go.

Yep. And I look at that data and I was like, okay, like people that are thinking, like, if I was thinking about which kind of business is going to, you can like kind of watch the cycle of these conversations and it indicates like which direction you should go. Not that it should be wrong. Totally. No, I totally agree. Like, and you start to have five or six of the same conversations with really smart people.

And three years later, you see that category. It's boom. Like if you look at like the olipops and the poppies, like they looked at what big soda was doing. And they also looked at the rise of prebiotics and probiotics and gut health. and they brilliantly combine the two. And now there's like every other, you know, soda is some sort of like gut health-oriented soda. And then those players are too late, obviously.

But absolutely. I think that's spot on. Yeah. And then like you start to see conversations. Like there's a lot of conversations about limiting alcohol. There's a lot of conversations about enhancing sleep. And then you start to see these different people kind of start winning in the categories. And I just, I just find that interesting to observe.

Hot tip. I think male fertility is going to be huge. this year. And I think, you know, when we think about like GLP ones and we think about supportive products, like there's categories that I think are just really, really interesting that actually still have room for innovation. It's hard to innovate too now. Like it's actually hard to find something where there's not something in existence. And so those are two that I have my eye on. Okay. And then my follow up question is say you figured out a category and you want to sort of like what are the things that you would caution people against in the early days? Spending too much money, raising too much money,

not having enough proof of concept before you spend too much money. I think that there's a very, very like, when I think about, you know, growing covet, like it was methodical. I think it's what you guys have done. It's like, it's like being obsessed with the market response. It's being iterative,

but it's not like, you know, there's the balance of like going full steam ahead because you're confident with an idea, but also being like, you know, capital conservative and making sure. And I think that's what I see a lot, like people overspending in one area, people going way, like spending way too much on Instagram or way too much on paid media,

putting all their eggs in one basket. Like when you think of the marketing flywheel, like you want to spend a little bit in a bunch of different places and A, B, test and see what works before you spend more. What do you think that Suja did really right? Because that was a brand that obviously crushed it. Like you said, we both know Annie. And I think they did a good job. And we talked with Heather off air about this of really listening to their consumer. Yeah, I think, I mean, gosh, Suja, I think that's also an example of right time, right place because back then, like, people who are drinking cold press juice, like Annie talked about this all the time. She had this

like Norwalk press that was like a 400 pound clung thing. So they took a process that historically had been very labor intensive and they put it in a bottle. And I remember there was this beautiful story in the Wall Street Journal that we got that was like how much for salad in a bottle. And it was this idea that you could pack. It's like what AG1 is doing a little bit right now. But it was like taking all the things you should be eating. And then they made it take. good. And I think that was like for me, I think there's lots of like case studies to be learned about Suja, but they were able to take something that historically was punishment. Like, oh, I got to like plug my nose and like, you know, drink kale and celery. And they were able from like beautiful recipes to

figure it out. They also, I think like helped to democratize organic. They were able over the course of their of the brand, able to introduce lower price point items to Walmart to places that historically didn't really have things like this and to really kind of broaden the brand to be much more mass. Are you someone who suffers from headaches or that midday slump or you feel like your energy levels just aren't what they should be? Maybe you're somebody that drinks a ton of water, but you never feel like you're really hydrated, you're going to the bathroom over and over, and you feel like you're actually not getting hydrated at all. You're likely not, and it's probably because you don't have the proper electrolyte ratio in your hydration plan. This is why Lauren and I love Element so much. Element helps anyone stay hydrated without the sugar and other dodgy ingredients found in popular electrolyte and sports drinks.

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great way to try all eight flavors or share element with a friend. Get yours at drink element.com slash skinny. This deal is only available through our link. You must go to D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash skinny. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online, whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand. Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website. engage with your audience and sell anything from products to content to time all in one place, all on your own terms. If you're somebody who's been sitting around procrastinating, waiting to start that online brand,

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all of that information in one place. It also helps you build these things cost effectively. If you think about the businesses we've built, we've built our own podcast that is hosted on our own RSS feed, our own websites and blogs, which we control and own, our own e-com channels. These are all platforms that we control and we own. Then we use third-party social platforms to promote them, but we're not at the mercy of those platforms, because we can distribute across all of them and then direct to the things we do own. Squarespace can help you do this. So whether you want to collect payments online, you want to

build a course business, you want to sell content, you want to use SEO tools. Squarespace can help you do all of this. Of course, we have an offer for our listeners and viewers. All you have to do is go to Squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, Squarespace.com slash Skinny to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Again, that's squarespace.com slash skinny. So one of my friends got sick and I saw her today after she was recovering and I brought her some of my favorite supplements. And amongst those were symbiotica's vitamin C, no brainer. Symbiotica's elderberry, my favorite. And then symbioticase glutathione. I tell all my friends and family about this brand because it's just creme della crem. Symbiotica is really, it's as clean as it gets.

there's no seed oils, there's no preservatives, there's no artificial junk. It's just high quality real ingredients that actually do something. I'm telling you guys, when I take this stuff consistently, I feel a difference. I know you will see a difference. How I take it is like my own way. So I'll do the vitamin C with beauty water and put it in water and froth it up. I just think they make products that are designed around energy, glowing skin and gut health. I'll do the vitamin C with beauty water and and they have a lot of integrity behind their products. I also think they taste amazing. My kids love the chocolate mushrooms that they have. What I'll do is I'll be like, do you want chocolate and strawberries? And they're like, yes. And then I put like a little bowl of Symbiotica's chocolate mushrooms

and I'll do strawberries with it. I've just found really fun creative ways to use it. Symbiotica, wellness made simple. Go to symbiotica.com slash TSC for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash TSC. You get 20% off plus free shipping. I also think what Annie's done personally so well is she, when she was done with Soudra, she went into a different category, but with a similar mission. Totally. And I thought, I think we're people that sell their company and then hop to something else do wrong is they'll like sell their company that's like, I'm just making this up, like an online, an online shop site. And then they'll sell it and they go and open a restaurant.

And you're just like, what right do you have? Yeah. And you've done this really well too. It's like you take all the tools that you learned from Suja and then you use those tools and apply it in a category that's synergistic. She's doing clean makeup. And she's really passionate about the ingredients and the formulations. It's actually so similar to what she did with Suja.

It's just different category, which is what you're sort of doing with Goldilaw. Yeah, and I think back to the early covet days, no one was setting beauty editor's juice. Right. And it's like, you know, beauty from within. You guys got Victoria's Secret. Yes. Yes. We were backstage in Victoria's Secret.

And it was all being sponsored by like Orbe and Revelon. And it was like, no, like actually like if you want your skin to look good. And so it was popping up a kind of unexpected areas for sure. And then, yeah, I think with Goldilocks, it's like, you know, a second career. But it's really not. It's just a slightly different, you know, lens of what you're doing it. But again, like, I wake, like, why I do what I do, you know, I'm a mom of two kids. I'm in my 40s.

Like, I could probably slow down. But, like, I just love building brands and, like, and finding that magic that a founder has. There are a lot of young people that want to establish a career in PR, branding, marketing. What would you, and a lot of them listen to the show, what would you tell those individuals that are looking to establish a career in your space? Oh, my gosh. I mean, be obsessed with concerns. media. I think that if you don't know the end product, you're sending me more articles than anyone. Yeah. If you don't know, I know every, I'm like, Lauren, look at this. If you don't know the end

product, you don't, it's like, it's like a doctor who's operating on someone without going to medical school. Like, if you don't know, like what you want your end product to look like, which maybe it's a glowing story in the New York Times. So like, read, read, read. I would, I, I, I still read the newspaper, like the actual print newspaper with the highlighter. Like, I'm dating myself, but like, I become obsessed with people's bylines, who's writing it, what makes them tick. So I think you have to literally be obsessed with the end format, which in PR would be media platforms. You have to ask a lot of questions. You had Kira on your show. Kira was my first intern. And I mean, Kira is a one in a bigillion, but I think something that helped Kira that I did was I BCC'd her on every email.

I wanted her to see how I communicated. I wanted her to see my tonality. I wanted her see my response time. And I think just like finding someone that will like let you behind the curtain, I think is so finding a mentor, finding someone that will like show you how it's done, I think is really important. Just so people can go back and listen with Kira. Tell us now what what Kira was working at Kovet and then tell us what she does now and if people want to go listen because this episode is complimentary. Yeah. Kira worked for me for seven years or so. And she is so smart. And she was very similar in the sense of we have this innate curiosity. And she'd been working with all these brands that got funding. And she was kind of adjacent. And she worked really closely with me when we sold again the

second time. So she was in the management meetings. And there's not a lot of women in, you know, venture. And so she left the agency world. She could have had any job she wanted. I mean, she must have gotten poached like 20 times a week from me. I mean, she's just dynamite, you know? And so she had her opportunity. And to this day, if you're listening, I still think you should start your own thing. because she's so smart. But so she went and she worked at RX3, which was a growth stage equity fund. She learned so much there.

And now she's the chief brand officer at set. And so think about it. She went from agency to investment to brand. And it's like who knows more than her having gone through this whole life cycle. Yeah, she really should start her own brand. She does like a little ecosystem. 100%. Michael, I wanted you to talk about your take that you told me about in the car this

morning when I almost, when I told Sarah that we got in a little fight in the car today. But before we got in the fight, you were telling me about how you looked at X. And I thought it was really interesting and I think she would love it. How I looked at X? Yes, Twitter. What about it? You were telling me like how you think X is supposed to be used. Oh, well, I think like I've analyzed over time, not just on our show or our properties, but other properties. And like what makes something like really hits? And not necessarily go viral, but like what, because I think going viral and like having something like hit and stick are two different things. Like there's a lot of things that go viral

and then you can never hear. It's like sticky. Yep. Yeah. Not like the what you were looking not like the Rader. Yeah. I think I don't know why. I don't know if this is so relevant to what we're talking about. But what I think it is. But what I was saying about X is. X is like is the pulse of what's going on right now today in real time in like what people feel is most important in that real time. It's where people go to get the most up to date. Like, for example, these fires were just going on in L.A. and I was on X in Scessantly because we were actually in L.A. during that. And I was like, okay, well, where is it? What's going on? It's like, that was like, that was like, that was like, the most reliant place. I know people feel a bias about some things, but it was the real people

commenting on the real thing that was happening in real time. And then, and then so there's that. And then there's these other platforms that you curate content on, whether it's Instagram or TikTok. And you like basically create something and then post it and leave it there. But I think there's a moment when you can interject into real-time conversations and then curate content within those moments to actually become more relevant. And I don't know why you wanted me to bring this up. But what I was saying is that I think brands sometimes spent all this time creating all this content and then they kind of like miss a moment or they're too late or they're too-

It's too curated. It's too edited. It's too performance. That's what I want to know. I want to know how you would leverage something like X with a brand right now. I think so it's funny. And I still will call it Twitter forever because I just, I mean, hot topic. I don't love the name. But with X, for instance, like it's interesting. Of all the social platforms, editors in particular, that's still their platform of choice.

Because it's quick. It's you're not worried about what you're saying. I think it's a really, really engaging platform. I think that I think less relevant for consumer brands, although there are brands. Like, I don't know if you've seen what Nutter. butter has been doing. It's like an acid trip. I'm going to be honest. I have not been up to speed on nutter butter. Well, let me tell you. I love a nutter butter. So this is not, this is on TikTok, but like if you're talking about using platforms an interesting way, like if

you go to nutter butter TikTok, it's like a clown and an acid trip. And it's so weird, but it's getting so many people talking because it's just weird enough. I don't think they paid more than like $4 to do it. And so I think maybe what you're getting at is like the pendulum has swung to like over curation. And like not only can people like sniff out the BS, but people don't want that anymore. What I was saying is like there's certain, and this was the context we were talking about, like there's certain big name guests that go on shows. But just because they have a big name, it doesn't always like quite land. But then once in a while you'll have somebody that's got the right profile and the right name and the right kind of platform.

And then it's also the right moment in time. Yeah. And it collides. And it's like you could have that same person go and do a show or be. beyond something six months earlier or six months later and it wouldn't land that way, but because it's, it collides with a specific moment in time where something's going on around them or something they're involved with with their profile, that it like, it happens. I guess my point is, if brands are looking to go viral, I think that mix of what you just said is, is important. A hundred percent.

And it's like there's all these memes going around. Like if, you know, social media managers, like it's the worst job in the world right now because they're just being hired so they can make a brand viral, which just doesn't really happen like that. And I think it goes back. to like the flywheel and it goes back to like you can't manufacture virality. Who are the brands and the creators in your opinion to look out for? Someone is people that you look at brands that you look at and you're like, they get it. So I mean, I think that I'm I'm much more probably I would say like educated on their brand space. We were just joking.

I have like one follow on Instagram. I'm like I'm like busy behind the scene. I am. I talked about this. Do we want a plastic surgeon dancing in the surgical room? We kind of want him in the surgery. Careful we know some of those guys. Yeah, it's like the shoe cobbler's son with no shoes.

I think there's really, I think there's really interesting brands. Like a few brands that I'm obsessed with Brami, which is a protein pasta, which you guys have to feed your kids. It's, it is like, it's made with two ingredients. And it's like you'll feel good about giving your kids macaroni and cheese because it's like 12. Oh, I like live on it. It's like 12 garrams and protein, but something that and like full disclosure, they're a client of ours. But something that they've done so beautifully is take like the aspirational, the Italian culture, the founders. Italian, but also like protein is everywhere. Like when you think about like what's trending,

like candy is getting into protein. Like I don't need my sour patch kids to have protein, but like everyone is making a protein. So I think brands that deserve to have protein and then normal usage occasion are ones that are really interesting. Coyotes is a brand that we've chatted about. It is an amazing four ingredient tortilla brand and it's just simple. And they have a beautiful, beautiful founder story. We have it in our fridge. You do? Yeah, we do. Yeah, it is delicious. I think it's, it's, I get asked like what makes a brand tick. It's just the like magic combination of all the things working at once. It's a recipe.

It's a recipe. And it doesn't happen overnight. Does not. I think that's so important. I just did a post on this about our podcast. I saw that. It's been around for nine years. It takes a minute.

Like if you think you're just going to throw something to the wall and think it sticks, that's just not the way it works. No. And you're so much better and smarter because you've been doing it for nine years. Like you have such a leg up from people. who are just getting started and think it's an overnight success. But you know, it's funny because I think a lot of people will listen to you and look at what you've done in your career. And some of those people will say the takeaway is like you build

something you sell it. But the more I'm listening to you talk is like the real happiness and excitement and fulfillment exists within doing something that you really love consistently. And like at some point, like even though the money and everyone has to make an income and all that, it almost becomes somewhat irrelevant once your bills are paid and you're kind of like, like, you know, being able to, you know, live an abundant life. It's like, you have to have the thing that lights you up. Yeah. If you don't have that, then it all doesn't really matter. I feel so lucky that I get to get paid for what I love to do. And it's, it's like, I think that's like hitting the, lighting the life lottery, if you will. It's like, yeah, some days are annoying, but generally

speaking, I wake up and I'm like, who can I talk to today? What can I learn today? Like, what unlock can I have today? And I feel so lucky that I get to do that. What are Sarah things? Meaning what are your tools, habits, tactics, wellness, beauty, all your little things that you like. Like if we dissected your life. Oh my gosh. I'm a basic beauch at the very core. But I use lip smackers Dr. Pepper. It gives me the best red lip. I mean, it's so funny. It's like if you open up my refrigerator, it has like all the brands we work with. But like I, because I was in PR for so long, I got sent so many things. Like I don't have a lot of loyalty to anyone because I hope you have an ice roller in the freezer.

I absolutely have an ice roller and I just got some face oil, some new face oil to put it on. I mean, I like live on the same aid. It's like a joke. Like I am a person by habit. I start every day with two eggs and an English muffin. I mean, I like people know, I eat like a six year old. Like I order off the kids menu. I'm not an adventurous eater.

It's decision fatigue. It's decision. It's decision. It kind of is. It's like why Mark Zuckerberg always wears, you know, the black turtleneck. There is something like that. I'm a mom, so I have a seven-year-old and a four-year-old, and so you know it's like mayhem at all times, which also makes a routine hard. I keels ultra facial moisturizer, my go-to facial moisturizer.

Any tools and habits, books, anything that you really love that you would recommend to our audience? Yes, I mean, I'm into a ton of substacks. I just find, like, the writing is super interesting because there's no publisher attached to it, so you can really, like, speak freely. We were just talking about Puck. Like, I'm a big fan of Puck. I'm a big fan of podcast. I love to write. I kept a journal every day of my life starting at age six,

and I still journal every single night. Yeah. God, that's gnarly. Yeah, I have like probably 500 journals. I, and there's no format. I just kind of like write whatever. So I love to write. I usually fall asleep listening to like a New York Times audio podcast.

I run. That's it. Pretty simple. So it sounds like you're simple with what you do because what you do for a living is a lot of, it's a lot of weaving. It's a lot of. It's a lot of layers. It's an onion.

Yeah, 100%. I, like, I didn't grow up playing team sports. So I have, no, I was not, I don't have an athletic bone in my body. My, my passion, my whole life has been just talking to people. And so everything I do is like is very simple. I think to give me like the mental capacity to like talk to people all day and learn about people. Well, you came to the right show.

I did come to the right show. If someone wants to work with you, I know you guys have probably. a huge scroll of a waiting list. You do work. I don't, I'll have to ask you off air, which brands I can say in the intro, you work with some huge major brands that everyone would know. I don't know if there's NDAs. But if someone wants to work with you who's listening or they already have a brand, what does that process look like? Where can they find you guys? It's Goldilocks. It's our, so www. It's Goldilocks is our website. My Instagram handle with my one or two followers is at the Sarah Brooks. And the best thing to do is just reach out. You'll probably talk to me because I'll probably I'll pick up any call.

I love it. And Michael, get on it with dear media. We're going to talk. I was letting you do your thing. Lauren gets mad at me because she's, she meets people and then I kind of like weasel my way in. No, this is what he does. I'll brag for a second. I'm the tastemaker. We're all find like a really smart person. Yep, like a gem. Like my interior designer that I just found. And I'll get them and I'll use them and then Michael will see what I've done. And then, and he'll take it and rebrand it to be his own. Absolutely. So he'll be telling me about you.

Like in six months he'll be like, well, Sarah said. And Heather told me, and I'll be like, bitch, I told you about them. But on the reverse of it, I also let her sometimes do that. And then if it's a disaster, I can be like. I've had some disasters. Like we're going to redesign this whole set. This whole thing is a disaster. She had, and I don't have to take any blame for it because it was all her.

Someone told me that our set looks like. Alice in Wonderland when Alice was in the tiny little, the tiny little cubicle. Oh, I love it. And I think the cards are interrogating her. The level, the levels got set wrong. Of course, you have to pull that image for YouTube. Anyways. So, yeah, for the good ones, I kind of like, slide. I'm like, oh, what did I just? Isn't that what marriage is, though? You start to lose count of what's your ideas, what are their ideas. It's just part of it. And when we get off, I'm going to, I'm going to ask you honestly what you said about this morning in the car because you were losing it. You know what? I'm hormonal and I could use a nutter butter. That sounds so good right now. The pregnant sow

Absolutely. Get ready for a little acid trip. This was like, oh my God. It felt like I was dealing with a three-year-old of a tantrum. I told you guys. You said the sentence in the brand deck about how people respect our marriage and how lovely it is. Absolutely. I'm going to put you on blast. She opened the car door like she was going to leave in the middle of the intersection. We did hear that. We did hear that. That is a powerful move. It works. That is a powerful move. He looked at me like, oh, this kind of crazy. I was like, that's what we're doing. dealing with today. So get us some nutter butters. We'll leave them in the glove box. Oh my gosh.

So great. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the show. Go listen to Kira's episode now because very synergistic. And go DM Sarah. If you have a brand, thank you for all your help with my deck. I look forward to see what you're going to do with your media.

Thanks, oh, yes. Thank you for getting me my next client. I really appreciate it. Maybe really consider getting back on a talk show. You're pretty good on a... Yeah, you guys want to give me a podcast? Get her contract.

That's the way to get out there. All of my favorite product. mouth tape, brow peptide to grow my brows and lashes, the ice roller, and even the caffeinated sunscreen can be found on shop, skinnyconfidential.com. You guys, if you have not tried mouth taping, you have to try it. And while you're on the site, that brow peptide has changed and transformed my brows. Go to shop skinnyconfidential.com to check out all my favorite goodies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.