The Bossticks - Straight Pepper Diet, Sex Addiction, The Prison System, Alcohol Addiction & Redemption With Joseph W. Naus

Episode Date: March 8, 2021

#337: Joseph W. Naus was living the American Dream. He'd survived a brutal childhood, graduated from Pepperdine Law School, and become a successful attorney. Then one night, his American Dream-life became a nightmare when his sex and alcohol addictions collided and exploded."On Tuesday, I was a respected civil trial lawyer making six-figures. On Wednesday, I woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed charged with attempted murder...and then it got worse To connect with Joseph Naus click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by No Days Wasted Their hero product is called DHM Detox, which is the vitamin for people who like to enjoy their drinks. It's designed to help you bounce back the next day. Get 20% off your order and free shipping in the US. Just head over to www.NoDaysWasted.CO/SKINNY and use promo code "SKINNY" at checkout This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work.  Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

All of this is a blur to me. Most of it is from the police report. But I put him in a chokehold from my martial arts days. The LAPD recognized the chokehold I put him in was a deadly chokehold, so they charged me with attempted murder. That's where that's where straight pepper diet. My book begins. Welp, this episode goes all over the place. I think you guys are going to love it.

We talk about addiction. We talk about alcoholism. We talk about an addiction to massage parlors. We talk about prison, prison reforms. Prison, prison reform. It goes all over the. the place. I am such a big fan of this guest today, Joseph Noss. He wrote the book Straight Pepper Diet. I found it through Amy Dresner, who's been on the show. She writes so candidly about her

addiction story in My Fair Junkie. And she told me to read this book. I fell in love with it. I just thought it was so real, but also so hopeful. And he was truly so honest. Joseph talks about how he was raised by his mother, who was a heroin addict turned shut-in depressive. And he talks about crime, poverty, like Michael said, jail. We kind of go all over the place. And this interview is candid. He also happens to have graduated from Pepperdine. He is a lawyer.

He's an author of two books, The Straight Pepper Diet, and the Paul's Graph Revelation. What I really love about his story is there's a real arc to it. Obviously, it follows somebody who grew up in very hard circumstances who had to overcome those circumstances who along the way dealt with addiction, prison, all sorts of problems. But really, you know, if you look at Joseph's life now, you know, successful author, successful marriage really turned his life around. And I think these are the type of stories people need to hear, you know, if you're in a dark place and you're looking for that bright light at the end of the tunnel. Stories like Joseph's are really, you know, powerful because it shows somebody who really was

struggling and who came out the other side. So I hope everybody enjoys this episode. And just to tease it a little bit, he was a lawyer. He went out for a couple of of drinks. He woke up the next morning handcuffed to a hospital bed and charged with attempted murder. So this episode goes all over the place. And I would say if you have kids in the car, maybe this isn't the episode to listen to right now. With that, let's welcome Joseph to the Skinny Confidential, him and her podcast. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. I am so excited to have Joseph here because I read his book, Straight Pepper Diet, a while ago and fell in love with the book. It's so good. And he just wrote a new book and he's here and we're

going to ask him all the questions. First, can you just tell the audience a little bit about how you grew up? Your childhood was gnarly. Can you give us a little peek behind the scenes at that? I grew up, well, first of all, I'm 50. I just turned 50 and I was born in 1971. I grew up in Riverside, California, which is in the inland empire here in California and Southern California. mom and dad were really young. She was 17 when she had me. My dad was 19. I grew up really poor in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. My dad left when I was six weeks old and my mom was a heroin addict. So we grew up on welfare and poverty. And you know, it's funny when I look back on it, you don't know what you don't know. So whatever your life is is what you think life is like,

you're fish and water. And so my mom and I used to drive around. She had this old beat-up VW bug. And we used to drive around and singing songs and stuff on the radio. And I thought it was all great. And I remember one of my first memories is going to score dope with her. Of course, I didn't know I was scoring dope. And she left and I was in the car for a long time. And then the next thing I know, she's arrested and she's taken to the police station. And I'm taken into custody in the police station, too.

And then after that, she got out and she went on methadone and stuff like that. What age were you when this was going on? When she was arrested, I think I was in first grade. Okay. So it's like six, five, six, seven years old. Yeah, yeah. At what point did you realize in your childhood, my mom's a heroin addict? Was there an epiphany where you saw her doing it in front of you?

Like, how did you start to know, oh, there's something wrong here? Or did you, or were just, you just didn't realize it was wrong because you were, that was all you knew. Well, I guess after she got arrested, she would go, we would go to the methadone clinic. So I kind of knew what methadone was. I mean, one of my, another fun experience I used to have is my mom and I would take the bus to the methadone clinic. And they would always give, I'd be in the waiting room and they would always give me Kool-Aid. Or no, not Kool-Aid, high C. And it looked the same color as the methadone.

And so she would take the methadone and I'd take that. So I kind of knew that she was a heroin addict. And then after that, she kind of became a shut-in depressive. So it actually got worse. And she started taking pills and speed and stuff like that. So that actually kind of was kind of worse. When you're on heroin, you just sleep all the time. You know, I'd come home.

from school sometimes after she got off of heroin and she'd be like cleaning and stuff and the windows would be open and be like what the hell is going on you know that was really weird because my mom didn't clean or open windows and stuff she basically slept till you know two in the afternoon i'd come home from school sometimes she'd still be asleep and what would you do with like as a young kid when she was just sleeping like what like how did you did you have any friends any siblings like any what were you doing to entertain yourself well i was by myself i didn't i didn't have any siblings. Actually, my dad went on and had a whole separate family. So I have a whole, I have like five brothers and sisters who I didn't know until way into my 20s. And so now I have a relationship with

some of them, which is great. But when I was a kid, I didn't have anybody. You know, when I was a kid, I had a lot of techniques which were geared around getting food because we didn't have enough food to eat. And somehow I had figured out that if I went to a better school, that I could do better. So I got, I used one of my friends' addresses to sign up for a better school, which meant I had to ride my bike three miles to school every day, but I got to be around kids that were not super poor. So I would spend the night at their houses as often as possible and go to their houses after school to eat.

And then during the summer, I would go to the boys club, which is like, I don't know if people know what that's like, but it's kind of like the YM's poor version of the YMCA. It was an old Safeway supermarket that had been abandoned or whatever and converted into a boys club, and they would get donations of pinball machines and stuff, and that's where all the kids hang out and they would give away food during the summer. So that's how I was able to eat.

I mean, it's not like I was starving. You know, it's America. It's not Africa. It's not, it's a different type of food. Sure, but it wasn't maybe as abundant as the people that, the school that you were going to, right? Like they, like if you started going to a school with people that had a little bit more means than you, they were, they were not struggling like that. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, no.

So did you have. I went to grant, this nice elementary school. I remember, like, had a friend whose dad was a lawyer. And we'd go to their houses and I'd just be like, oh my God. Like I remember one of the kids had a two-story house. And I'd just be like, this guy's like, him his dad must be a billionaire or something. And now I look back on it and I drive around that neighborhood and stuff. And I realize, oh, those are just lower to middle class kids.

But I was so poor that I didn't know. You know, I kind of knew the difference because my aunt, I used to go over my aunt's house. And she, they had, they were kind of middle class. But I thought they were super rich too. They had a pool. And it was like, it was like Disneyland. What are some tools in town? tactics and good things that came out of your childhood. Like, for instance, like, did it cause you

to get really creative with things, like independence? Like, what are some good things that you look back on that you're grateful for? Oh, perspective. To this day, when I get into a car that I know is going to start, I feel grateful. And I've had a car that I know will start for many, many years now. And yet I still get in and go, like, this is really cool. So just like not taking things for granted. I was very lucky to have them to have some aunts and uncles that I would see everyone in a while and the kids that I spoke of. And so I did see a different way of life. So I think that was something that that probably was beneficial and a turning point for me as opposed to maybe some other kids that were less fortunate who didn't see that as much. There's neighborhoods in

right around here and South Central and stuff around Los Angeles where these kids like never leave a mile radius and they have they don't ever see anything but poverty. And I actually got to see some other things. So I did know it was possible. And so the long answer to your short question is education. Like I realized like, hey, there's a way out of this and it's education. And so I was good at liberal arts type stuff, English and things like that. So I knew that if I could do well in school, I could get out of poverty. What was your first drug or alcohol experience?

Do you remember it? In high school, I had to drink a couple times and maybe a couple joints or whatever it's called now. marijuana. But my first time getting drunk wasn't until when I was in New York for the first time when I was in college. So I didn't get drunk until I was 20. So you stayed away from drugs and alcohol for a while. Yeah. I mean, I saw my, I saw my mom and my dad and what it had done to them. And so drugs were totally verboten for me personally. But I thought alcohol wasn't drugs. And so I still stayed away from them because I was straight edge in high school, which is more a musical thing than a I don't know if you guys know.

You have the X on your hand? Yeah, yeah. I used to wear the X on my hand and all that stuff and go to these little gigs and stuff. So that kept me out of trouble for a while. But when I got into college and I realized, okay, now I'm on my way to law school and I had my first experience in New York and that was like the first time I ever got wasted drunk. And I always say this like, in one night I cheated on my girlfriend, first time I'd ever been done that, smoke cigarettes, first time I ever done that and got wasted on alcohol.

hall and first time I ever done that one night in New York. And it became the new best thing ever. Like I realized like everything I've been doing that I enjoyed, none of it came close to the experience of that, of feeling like that, looking up at those sky rises in the cold, smoking a cigarette, drinking and cheating. So when you cheated on her, did you guys break up? No, no, she didn't know about it. So you just kept it a secret? Yeah. And then did it become the new norm to go out, get drunk, cheat on her. You said that you loved that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it did. I was terribly, I was a very principled person. I always have been. I have these ideas of what I want to do with my life and how I want to live. How did those principles manifest themselves? Like, what, give me an

example before? Like, what was one of your principals or two of your principals? Well, I'll give you a kind of controversial one, right? And this is a good example. When I read Diet for New America, when I was in high school, I immediately became vegetarian. And we were super poor. I didn't have no resources to do it. I just believed that was the right thing to do. But then when I started drinking, two years later, when I started drinking, that all went away. So it shows you like, there's a principle, it's very specific, hardcore.

And then immediately it just washed away. And so, but I don't know where like just basic spiritual principles, practical spiritual principles of honesty, integrity, love those things. If you ask me where they came from, I don't know. I just thought they were the right thing to do. And I thought like a wholesome life. I mean, ironically, given what you've read in my book, I just love wholesomeness. Like when you're around poverty and heroin and that type of stuff, the last thing in the world I wanted to do was exactly what I ended up doing in my addictions.

I just wanted a wife and a two-bedroom house and a good job. And I'd be happy forever. You just wanted some sense of being normal. Right? Yeah. What was going on with your parents during this time right before you went to college? Like, had they, your dad came back in your life? Your mom was still around. Like, what were they up to? I didn't meet my dad until I think I was like eight years old or something. And he was always gone. He never came back. You know, he had his own trajectory of not good trajectory. My mom just. And he did drugs or no?

Well, according to my dad, who doesn't talk to me anymore, I mean, he doesn't. He said he didn't. My mom told me that she first did Harry. because my mom, my dad turned her on to it when she was 14, but he denies that. But yeah, he's a, he's an addict. No question about it to this day. He's amazing. He has great genes. So he's still alive. But yeah, well, yeah, they never got to back together. When you're growing up in this environment of, of your mom using heroin and then she switches to speed. And is there, like, I imagine like the house is like disheveled? Like, there's, is there like needles open? Is there like paraphernalia everywhere? Like, what is the environment? Or was it, is it like a clean thing where you don't see anything? and you never saw anything.

Well, I do remember, okay, well, here's a couple examples. We live in a one-bedroom apartment in the alley. We call it the alley. She slept on the sofa, and it was one of those vinyl plastic sofas. And there was always holes. I mean, it had more holes on it than it had not holes because she would nod out while smoking a cigarette and burn the plastic. Luckily, it didn't catch on fire because the plastic would just burn out.

And I do remember a few times seeing Bent. spoons, like she would take a spoon and bend it this way, like an S, so it stood up on itself and it would have burn marks on it. Now I know what that's from back then I didn't know. I guess you heat the heroin in that. But other than that, no, no, I mean, I do remember these little tinfoil packets that my mom used to get Valium from a psychiatrist, that, you know, but yeah, that's it. And the mood changes. When she was doing heroin, she'd just sleep. And when she would do the speed, she would be like in these weird moods where I'd get home and she'd be like, cleaning the house and cooking and stuff is really strange.

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So if you don't love it, they'll refund you on your first box. But I know you guys are going to be obsessed, especially after my night the other night. This is such an easy decision. I got you a 20% off code, 20% off your order and free shipping in the United States. Just head over to no dayswasted.com slash skinny and use promo code skinny at checkout. That's no dayswasted.com slash skinny for 20stestestes. 20% off your order. Cheers. I remember when I was in college, I lived with someone who was an addict and there was aluminum foil all over the house everywhere. And I didn't know what it was. I was like,

what is this? I'd find aluminum foil everywhere. I want to jump forward to, so your first drink. So does it spiral quick or is it a slow addiction happening? Like did you immediately, when you started drinking was like, I want to do this every single night or was it slow? No, not at all. I was a, I was I was in college. I was kicking ass. I was the president of this and the president of that. I was 4.0 and I had my trajectory. I was trying to get into law school. I went to a decent undergraduate college, but nothing that was going to pull any string. So I had to get really good grades and I did everything. And I worked for this really great lawyer, trial lawyer. I mean, I was doing great. I was kickboxing at the time still. And I said this whole kickboxing career that ran parallel to my academic career. But it was. It was just in the back of my head. Like, this is the best thing. So when you have time, you can go do this. And then when I got into law school, I got really depressed, and that's when I really started drinking.

I ended up in law school. I lived at the dorms. And I was one of the few people who didn't have anybody in the dorm with me because my fellow dormmate had a house in Malibu. His parents lived in Malibu. And so he would just stay there all the time. So it's by myself all the time in these dorms. And I got really depressed. And I started drinking a lot at that point.

And I still graduated and passed the bar, but slowly it got worse. By the time I got to Oceanside, I was full on. And was it just alcohol at this point, or did you start graduating to other substances? Just alcohol. Alcohol and cigarettes and sex, sex addiction in all different forms. You talk about that in your book. You're so open about how you talk about how you sort of got addicted. And I don't know if that's the right word, but addicted to like massage parlors. Yeah. I've never heard anyone talk about that.

So my first question is you just walk into a massage parlor and say I want a massage and then it ends with a happy ending. Massage parlors are this fucking, are these crazy thing in American culture that it's come out a little bit lately in the last 10 years. But it is phenomenal how many massage parlors there are and how it is. Our producer just popped a boner. He's Googling massage parlors right now. So you got to be careful of that. He's in the back, napping them out. Yeah. Well, yeah. Okay, so massage parlors, actually when you asked me that question about addiction, probably my first addiction was 9-7-6 numbers. That came before drinking. I actually got-houtlines. Sex hotlines. I remember I actually, when I was in high school, I called a bunch of sex hotlines. I got off from it and I got totally addicted to it. You wrote about that in the book. Yeah. I totally got addicted to it to the point of where I had to, I had such a huge phone bill that I had to pretend I was my dad and call them and tell them that, you know, that this is, you know, use a deep voice and got them to reduce it and paid it off.

They said like, hey, this was a minor. You were doing this way they better cut it down. Yeah. And then I had picked up a street prostitute several times in Riverside when I was in college. And it was just such a rush. People describe, like I've been in meetings and people describe what heroin's like, like going to the dealer and then scoring. Like they'll talk about going to the dealer is almost as much of a rush as the actual drug itself. And that's exactly what it was like, like the rush of it.

So that was really love. lucky I never got hurt or got a disease or anything. But yeah, I did that quite a bit. I have a severe addiction to foot spas. I'm actually going to one today. What the hell you've been doing in those spas? Now I'm going to be wondering. I go to the foot spot and I get two hours uninterrupted of work done on my phone

because you can just get your feet massaged. Oh my God. Is that the kind of like parlor that you're talking about, the foot spas that I go to? Like if I ask for a half. And it's, I'm honestly asking. He's like, no, that's not it. This is not the same kind. I fucking hope not, Warren.

If you went to a massage parlor, they would just turn you down. They would just tell you, oh, we're busy. Okay, but let me ask. Usually they're unincorporated areas. There are some still. Like, interestingly in Santa Monica where I had moved to, they had some that were grandfathered in because they'd been there so long because Santa Monica used to be a military town. And so on Pico, they used to have these massage parlors.

They probably couldn't get in there now. But so anyways, the point is, as you go in these massage parlors, it's all immigrants. Asian immigrants that work 90%. You go in there for a massage, and if you know the right lingo and the right things to do and you put the money in the right place, then you can get whatever you want.

What's the lingo? I need to know the lingo. Like you say, do you wink? Like, what is the lingo? Wink. You know, I had a friend in recovery who I told what I'm about to tell you to, and it spiraled.

He went into a whole thing of it. So I don't want to get anybody in trouble, but, you know, the reality is. Listen, let's put a disclaimer. You got to use your best judgment here, people. Don't spiral, but I think people do want to know. No, I'm curious.

That part of your book, I'm very, very curious. It's human nature to be curious. I want to know, like, is there a little thing? Like, what do you do? Well, okay, so I remember the first time I ever saw when I was driving with my dad, I went to work for him. He had a fence company. I went to work for him.

And we drove down this unincorporated area out by Pomona, poor area. And I remember seeing it. I was a kid and being like, this. isn't right. Like, why would a massage parlor be out in the middle of nowhere like this? And it looked real weird and stuff. And so that caught my attention. It wasn't like two years later, I did it for the first time. As soon as I turned 18, I drove out there. Basically, what it is, you go in, it's always very clandestined. It's very dark and closed. And there's big security gates. You walk in. There's a little lobby. Someone opens up the door. It's usually an older Asian lady. And she says, have you

been here before and you say yes and she asked you who you saw if you've never see anybody you make up a name like sunny or April or May some something like that and then they take you back and if you put a towel they give you a towel you undress if you take the towel off and you completely exposed with your chest down on the table then they know and you put the they it costs like $40 at least I haven't done it many many years but if it costs $40 to go And if you put another 40 or I think it was 40 the time, maybe 60 down on the table, then they know that you want to have sex.

And then that's that. That is so crazy. So you just take the towel off. Well, the other things I think get you there too. You have to like, because the most important thing, especially if you look like me, is that they want to make sure you're not a cop. Oh. And the cops don't bother these places.

First of all, they're good neighbors. They pay their taxes. They're in unincorporated areas typically. It's kind of a quote unquote victimless crime. Now I don't purport to that at all. Now I know what I know now, I believe that a lot of these places are very, very dark places and a lot of these people would qualify as sex traffic victims. What do you know now? Can you educate the audience on what is actually happening? Well, I believe based on just what I've seen in the news and stuff, that a lot of these women will get here illegally and then their passports will be held and they have this deal where you work off your passport. You've heard about this stuff before. I haven't. I have not heard this. Well, okay, say you're living in a third world country where you can't, you can barely make a

living or barely survive. You come to America. Next thing you know, you're living in one of these places or a place next to it. And you're working off your passport. They say, we'll take you here. And for 20,000, we'll get your passport and we get your place to live and you have to work it off. And of course, they never credit you. And their intention is to keep you there forever. And you're basically a prostitute. It's not like, I doubt any of these people wanted to to be there because they prefer to do this than I, you know, another job. I mean, I didn't think that at the time. I just thought, oh, this is harmless. Maybe I supplant or suppress that in my mind, but now looking at it, I mean, it's pretty obvious that was the case. I think it's cool you wrote

about it because talking about it removes the judgment around it. And I think that it's, it was really honest and bold that you wrote about it. The first time that you went, were you automatically addicted to that? Was it an automatic thing or was it something you're doing? every day? Are you doing it once a year? Like, what does that look like? It depends on how much. I mean, it cost $100 a pop. And a lot of the times I was a college student. So it wasn't like I had that much money. But once a week, twice a week, it was bad. I got to the point where certain ones I would have more than one at a time, more than one masseuse at a time. And so that kept up in the ante of what you did and how many people you did it with. Kind of like experience stretching.

What's experience stretching? We talked about on the show, experience stretching. Sorry to the audience that's heard me say this before. But experience stretching is like the example I've heard. I think a guy that did is Kevin Rose. He's like, you can go out and see the most amazing sunset in the world. And I apologize for people that've heard this. But in the, and you say, you look to your partner or whatever, you say, oh, this, life couldn't get better than this.

This is the best sunset ever seen. Life, this is the best. And then a year goes by and you see that same sunset, but maybe you have a drink in your hand and you're making a little bit money. You're like, well, life can't get better than this. And then the next time, you're like, maybe you're in, you know, an exotic location. And you see that same side. You're like, but can't get better.

You just keep stretching and stretching. And like, maybe you're on a yacht one time. I can't get better. And then what happens is you see that same sunset that originally made you happy and it actually makes you depressed because you've stretched the experience so far that the stuff you used to think was great has become actually like it makes you feel like you're regressing or going back. Right.

It upsets you. This isn't a weird example to use. But in the massage part, it's like you go and you have one the first time. You're like, okay. And it's like you can't go back to the one because you've stretched the experience so far. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The original experience is actually depressing or not, or in your mind, not good anymore.

Right. I see. So it's like tolerance. Like the for a drug addict be like tolerance. Exactly. Like an addict can't have like a single drink anymore because they've gone so or like they can't just do alcohol anymore. Right.

Like it's called experience stretching. Gotcha. Oh. Learn something. Yeah. I mean that sounds kind of like what happens when you just keep going and going. Were you simultaneously drinking when you, the massage parlor was happening or did the drinking come after. Here we are back in familiar territory, Lauren, with the beta brand dress pant,

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Rinkle resistant stretch knit fabric, to be exact. Write down all skinny confidential him and her listeners get 25% off their first or when you go to beta brand.com slash skinny. That's 25% off your first order for limited time at Betabrand.com slash skinny. Find out why women are buying five different pairs of these pants. All you're going to do is go to Betabrand.com slash skinny for 25% off. They kind of like I consider myself Omni addict. What does that mean? Cigarettes, alcohol, sex. And then within the sex, it would be like a hierarchy.

One night stand probably the best. Massage parlor. Two. and then porn, a far distant three or whatever. And so whatever combination of whatever I could get would be what I could get. Sex addiction probably was my first addiction, my first love. And then alcohol kind of took over. I did realize the danger of sex addiction. I mean, that was one of the parts that made the massage partner. So much of a thing was like you got the rush, almost the rush of like straight prostitution,

but you also got the protection because those places are very, very careful about security and stuff. So it's very hard to get busted at one of those places, unless you just break into one in the middle of the night and attack somebody or something. At what point do you start to feel like, hey, this is a problem? Because it sounds like you had your life. I mean, if you're in law school

and putting yourself through and getting good grades, it sounds like you're also functioning. At what point did you say like, well, I'm no longer functioning. This is actually a problem. Or it did it take a while for you to realize that? Well, with the sex stuff, I always thought it was immoral.

And so when I became a lawyer and I moved to Oceanside, I, for the most part, stopped. I had a couple relapsed. I stopped that. And I had a girlfriend that lived with me, so that was pretty easy. And then the alcohol and the cigarettes ramped up. And I didn't really think the alcohol and cigarettes were an addiction. I knew that sometimes they were a problem, but I didn't know they were necessarily an addiction.

I mean, to be honest with you, I didn't really want to stop any of this stuff until I got in rehab and was charged with attempted murder. And what are the circumstances behind that? That sounds like that's an escalation. Sorry, that's not that. writers are supposed to slowly dull this out. I apologize. No, I like that. I like, like, like, okay. So, so, so, so maybe that's the period of time. You almost kill somebody and, and then you get arrested. That's, that's the catalyst, or? You know, I was working at this law firm in the Inland Empire, one of the best law firms out there.

And I got a DUI and I rolled a car off the side of the freeway at 85 miles per hour with a passenger, charged with a felony DUI. I thought to myself, okay, I'm really embarrassed. I need to move. Do the law firm keep you? Are they? They kept me. Funnily enough, basically every part in the law firm took me into their office after it came back, a huge black eye and basically said, ah, don't worry about it. Just take it easy when you drink. And they told me stories about their clients that had DUIs that they represented them. And they thought it was funny, quite frankly. The DA didn't think it was funny. They were going after. They were trying to put me in jail. They were trying to make an example of me because I was an attorney. So it was very clear to me at the time that I had a driving problem. So I moved to Santa Monica where I could walk to bars. When I moved to Santa Monica, I got a better job, making more money at a better firm, and I could walk to bars at that point. So the drunk driving was no longer an issue. So I just drank and drank and drank. And then when I was about to fail out of that law firm, I started my own law firm with a friend of mine. And we made

even more money and we're doing better and better. And I had more time and more money. So I drank more and more and more trips to Vegas, et cetera, et cetera. I ended up, there was massage parlors around there. I lived on 34th in Pico in this condo over there and there was these massage parlors that I frequented over there. And one night I got drunk out of my mind into a complete blackout and I went to the massage parlor. It was like two in the morning. I'd stopped at a bank and got $100 so I could pay for it. I pounded on the front door. It was like in this motel that had been one leg of the motel had been converted into a massage parlor and the others had been converted into single residence occupancies. And I went to the pounded on it and woke some people up and went to the back

door. Nobody was in there. It was like three in the morning. And I climbed in the window to the massage parlor. Go in the bathroom like you do. They give you a towel and you change. And when in the bathroom I changed and took off all my clothes and walked in and it was not the massage parlor. It was the adjacent room that was occupied by some dude. And he had a industrial fan going because it was really hot. So he didn't hear me. And he was a neat freak. So it looked like a business bathroom. It was completely devoid of any personal objects. So he freaks out. I freak out. And we get in a fight. And he chases me out of there. So he finds you naked in his bathroom through the window? No, I walk into the living room. He wakes up.

naked. I might freak out too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You might kill me. Which very well could have happened. I'm lucky it didn't happen. I had put him in a, he was freaking out and I was trying to quiet him. I mean, all of this is a blur to me. Most of it is from the police report, but I put him in a chokehold from my martial arts days. The LAPD recognized the chokehold I put him in was a deadly chokehold. So they charged me with attempted murder. That's where that's where straight pepper diet. My book begins. It's so good, you guys. You have to read it. What do you think when you wake up the next morning? Are you like, oh, fuck? Or are you like, I need a glass of water. I'm hung over. When I woke up, I woke up with a doctor stapling my head shut because the guys had hit me over the head with a skateboard a bunch of times. The guy that you broke into his house. I broke in the house. He and his neighbor chased me across the street. And one of them had a bat and one of them had a skateboard.

And because I was so anesthetized, they were hitting me. I was trying to get out of there, but they were trying to trap me because the cops were coming. There was a huge crowd of people, and there was a helicopter over above, but the cops hadn't got there yet. So they were trying to keep me there, and I was trying to leave, putting on my clothes. And they kept hitting me to keep me still, and I kept on trying to go. But I was so anesthetized that I was like a tranquilized bear. So this guy kept hitting me over the head with a skateboard. And I do remember thinking, like, oh, I'm going to die.

Like, if he hits me again, I'm going to die. So I skateboards are fucking dangerous as a weapon. No really. People like people like people don't realize like with those trucks and the wheels and the metal like oh god. Yeah. Yeah. So he cracked open my skull and I woke up in a hospital with a with a doctor stapling my head shut. And so to answer your question, I guess I didn't go to sleep after that day.

It was like this nightmare. You get taken to Twin Towers and it's just Twin Towers. It's like this just absolute. Twin Towers is the jail in downtown L.A. It's one of the largest jails in the country. It's one of the most dangerous, horrible places in the world. Outside of maybe Kandahar or something, you get checked in there. And it's just a walking nightmare.

I mean, I was, to answer your question, I was suicidal. I was basically like, man, I had a really good run. I did some experience stretching. You know, I'd been to some. You did a little bit. I'd been to Europe. up. What age was this? Sorry? Let's see. This was in 2003, so I was 32. Okay. And I had been to Europe and I had started my own law practice. I had won some trials and I had far surpassed anybody's expectations of me,

I think, at that point. And so I thought, this is it. I'm done. Some people died at 80. Some people die at 30. Whatever. I think another question that a lot of people would have that is human nature to be curious about is jail. I am so curious about jail. I'm watching that show with my husband. What's it called again? 30 days in. 30 days in. Or 60 days in. Or 60 days in. And like, what is it like? What is the food like? What is the like? What are the guards like? What's the atmosphere if you could really describe it? And I'm sure they have to read your book because the book, you guys, is so good. And you do go into detail, but I would just love to know. Yeah, yeah. You know, I wrote the book, Straight Pepper Diet in first person present. And because I wanted people to step into my shoes and experience what it's like to be in jail and prison.

And I got a lot of people like those sections a lot because it's something that normal people hopefully don't experience. And I had two experiences. I had jail and then I had prison, which were two different things. I write extensively about that both in the book. Twin Towers is this dangerous, a horrible place. You are brought in there and you're stripped and you're put in these orange jump. I was put in a special color jumpsuit because I was a suicide risk. You walk. It's basically like this weird maze. There's literally lines, different colored lines that go through the whole

institution and they tell you follow this red line. And sometimes you follow a line and you're not even around any COs or correctional officers. You just follow the line until you get to wherever next is locked and they take you there. And so you're with a bunch of other people. And some of them are very experienced and they feel like, you know, you feel like they're at Starbucks and they've been there so many times, it's no big deal for them. And some people are like me where they're just terrified out of their mind. And the CEOs, the correctional officers in jails are deputies. They're sheriff officers, right? They're deputy. So when you're a sheriff officer, at least the way it used to be is you go to the sheriff's academy and then you have to spend

two years in a jail before you go out on the town. Some of them are okay and some of them get desensitized. They get really desensitized to, to us, to, to, to the criminals that are in there and they don't treat them like humans and they're brutal. Do you empathize it all with that? Or do you think like what, I mean, putting yourself in their, I mean, not, I don't one way or the other, but what do you think causes that desensitization? Is it because they're just dealing with this stuff day in, day out that at some point it's like they got to disconnect or do you think that there's a way to correct that and make it so they don't get desensitized? Can we do another podcast on that? Yeah, we can. You know, I have a criminal justice degree. I have a jurist doctorate. I have a lot of

friends who are cops, one of my best friends of cop in LAPD. I worked at a gym that was full of cops and I was a lawyer. So I had a lot of experience with cops and what it takes, and I was going to become a cop. At one time, I was in, I was kickboxing at the nationals in Long Beach and I was waiting to go on to my fight. And there was the cops. They were recruiting there because it was a big martial arts thing. And they were, they were breaking down. And they came over to me and started talking to me. And, you know, they were telling me like, oh, you can make 50 grand a year. You have a bachelor. his degree and all this stuff. And so I was really into it. But I look back on that and I think that maybe there's a problem that the LAPD is recruiting at martial arts academies. You know, at martial

arts things, maybe they should be recruiting at math events. So I think personally that there's a long tradition of cops officers being kind of from a demographic that is that takes more physical machismo into into value than emotional and mental strength. and when you are put in a situation where you're around dangerous situations and dangerous people and those people tend to look alike, whether it be by color or demographic, you, if you are not trained properly and have emotional and educational strength in this regard, you will end up to start seeing those people as inferior or as criminal. And so I think a lot of that is where it comes from.

And I don't think most of them, maybe some of them, definitely some of them start out like that. But I think a lot of them become that. There's a reason that Twin Towers has been under federal mandate for, what, 20 years now. What does that mean federal mandate? Federal mandate means they've been sued under a Section 193 case, a civil rights case, and that the attorney general of the United States, I believe, is who has jurisdiction over it, has said, you guys are not following, you guys are not basically complying with civil rights guidelines. And that so the feds have jurisdiction over them and they're supposed to do certain things.

I mean, Lee Baca is in prison now, I think. He was the sheriff during most of this time. I think he's in prison now. Funnily enough, I saw him at Alhambra the other day playing golf, like before he was about to get sentenced to go to prison. But anyways, that's a long thing to answer a question, but something I feel. No, I think it was a thoughtful answer. And I think that you're probably spot on there. It's the root cause of, you know, you got to correct this. You need EQ. Yeah, you got to correct this stuff at the.

at the root, right? Like it's, and I think that that's a very difficult thing to do. I don't have the answer. I don't think any of us do, but, but I think your, your answer is pretty spot on. Do you think the way that, that the inmates were treated was fair, that you saw, or do you think that there was a lot of things wrong with it? Oh, no, no, no, they're not treated fairly at all. It's just, you know. That's what I observed when I watched that show, and I know it's a show, but that's, it doesn't seem like they're treated very fairly. If you ever look on Facebook and somebody will commit a crime and then you'll see somebody who, who, who, you, who you think is like a normal housewife or whatever, and they'll be like,

so-and-so did this, I hope they get raped in jail. That's kind of the American, a lot of Americans feel that way about certain criminals. They're just like, fuck them, I hope they rot in hell. Whatever they get in jail is what they deserve. And I just think to myself, and this is before I was a criminal, I think to myself like, man, that's not what this criminal justice system is for. Maybe you believe in revenge and maybe you don't. Maybe you believe in deterrence. But the bottom line is our justice system is supposed to take freedom away from this person. It's not supposed to torture them. And going to where I went, Chino and Twin Towers, that's torture. Now, I'm not blaming that on the CEOs there. A lot of them are understaffed. There's not enough money there. It's a failing institution. Both of them are failing institutions. If you look at other capitalistic first world countries, you don't see what we have in. in our prisons and jail. And a lot of it has to do with public perception. Yeah, I think all,

I don't know how they go about fixing it at this point because obviously the prison populations are getting bigger and bigger. And in those populations, they're getting more and more segregated, right? And you get into this situation where there are certain demographics of that criminal base that are just going to do, they're straight criminals, right? They're not interested in being rehabilitated. They're in there, they're going to be there for a while and they're going to do what they're going to do. But there's a much larger segment, in my opinion, that is there doing their time trying to get by, maybe made a mistake. And what I think is scary about the prison system is we need to be able to rehabilitate those people that are maybe nonviolent offenders that are trying

to turn their life around. But the system is maybe holding them down and not letting them escape it, which is, one, a burden on taxpayer money on the states and on the Fed. And two, also holding these people in a system where they don't have a chance of getting out, right? And I don't know how to go, I don't know, I don't know if anybody knows how to go about solving that, but it's a big problem in this country. Well, we can start at the DA level, and we've done that in Los Angeles. We got rid of Jackie Lacey, and we elected a new DA who has the principles that most people in Los Angeles believe with. We've gotten bail reform. We've getting rid of private prisons.

I think the new administration just put some type of federal regulations out, or maybe complete, I don't know exactly, but limiting private prisons. I mean, so many people, like, do you guys know anybody who's been to jail or prison? Sure. For a significant time besides for just a DUI or something? My best friend went to prison. She had a eight-month-old. And they put her away for about a year and a half. And she also, not only does she have an eight-month-old, she had two other children, too.

So three children, she was a mother. She went to jail for selling jeans. Something about selling jeans and the goods weren't delivered. And the way they treated her, she's beautiful. And she writes about it in her book called Fuck My Life was despicable. And it just stripped her of everything exactly what you're saying. And it was torture. And thank God she got out.

She got to write about it. And she's living a beautiful life now. But from what she's told me, the prison system is fucked. We also have, I mean, rest of soul and now, he just recently passed. But our nephew's father, he had been, he went. in the prison system young. And he's been on the show and told the story, but he had been, he'd been in San Quentin. He'd been in Folsom, and Chino, like, from a very young age, and he got to the point where he, like, he had been, it's, you know, it's called getting violated,

violated, like, the maximum amount of times where eventually they had to get him out, but they spent the greater part of his adult life going through the system and basically just not being able to get out because of how the system operates. And he was an addict, right? So he was not necessarily a violent offender, but, like, drugs just overtook and he just spent the majority of his life in the prison system. Right. You just hit on something that's really important for people to understand is that most a great deal of people and I don't have the exact stats that are in the prison system and jail systems are there on violations. They're there because they violated their terms of probation or parole and so they go back in. And the probation and paroles, you can violate those

without even committing a crime or you can violate them by committing a misdemeanor, not showing up to your appointment of testing dirty for marijuana. Especially if you're an addict. drinking, you're an addict or whatever. And you can do them for other, or showing up, someone who has a restraining order against, something like that. And so that's a lot of resources and a lot of, you know, I always think of it as like, we're a capitalistic society, right? You're entrepreneurs. You believe in the capitalist system, right? So I think we should follow the money here. And I don't think it's good to have us have the highest population of prisoners in the entire world. I mean, that's a huge brain drain. That's a huge economic resource. And I know why it's

happening is because there's money flowing towards these prison systems. The prison unions are very strong. It's all these things. But that is not a very smart allocation of capital. We need these people to be rehabilitated while lowering the crime rate. And we need to adhere to our Bill of Rights and not be torturing people. Don't tell me that you can, that you don't have a responsibility not to torture somebody. If somebody is in your custody, they cannot, they should not be tortured on a regular basis. I don't care if it's Jeffrey Epstein or it's a white collar criminal, the worst person you could possibly imagine. Either we believe in these spiritual principles or we don't. Do you believe in torturing people? Is your answer yes when they're really bad? And if that's the

answer, then I think you need to check yourself. It's also great. What I consider really bad, you might not consider really bad. So that's hard too. It's like you can't torture some and not all of them. Because what is really, really bad? I think there, like, I think there obviously needs to be a deterrent for people that are going to commit violent crimes against regular citizens, right? Like, if you're murdering people or hurting people, like there needs to be a deterrent.

There needs to be a penalty. If you're harming children, like, I don't have a lot of sympathy for you there. I've been very vocal on the show. Like, there needs to be deterrent. But, you know, we have people in the prison system that are in. there for things like marijuana that are now legal. Or selling jeans. Or like you can go get marijuana anywhere in LA.

And there's people that are in the prison system for 20, 30, 40 years now for nonviolent crimes. That to me is a waste of resources or waste of capital. It's also people are doing this normally now and sitting in the people that are sitting in the system because maybe they were a few years before it became legal. To me that's crazy. To me like federally people should look across the board and say, okay, like maybe those people shouldn't be sitting and being wasted, wasting federal resources and state

resources for non-violent crimes. Yeah. No, I agree. But I don't know the answers for the other violence. I mean, there's got to be some deterrent for violent crime. Oh, of course. I mean, taking your freedom away forever is a pretty big deterrent. But I don't think being shanked by a gang member should ever be something the state condones. Sure.

No, of course. And if that's a high probability of that, then they condone it. So, and I don't care what you did. So, yeah, it's a messed up system and we got to do something about it. And it seems like we are doing something about it. It seems like the tables are turning and people are starting to realize because you can't have this many people in prisons and jail and not have people like you guys who are directly affected. I mean, you just told me two people that are close to you that already have had these horrible experiences. Yeah, it's wild.

Right. Can you on a micro level tell us what kind of torture you're talking about? Are you talking about they take your food away or they hurt you? Like what are the actual micro things they're doing that is torture? Well, what happens in prisons is the, in jails and prisons, but is that the guards will put you in dangerous situations. So if you're in there on a sex crime, even if you just been charged with one and not convicted of one, they'll put you in there with a gang, a gang, which is guaranteed to get hurt. Or they'll go in there and they'll take everything you have and throw it away under a search. Or they'll be on the yard and they'll allow someone to beat you up until they break in.

It's just everything like that. I mean, people, it's well documented. People get raped in prisons and shanked and all kinds of stuff. It's just a very dangerous place. It's just very, very dangerous. How long were you in prison the first time? Or jail, I should say, right? Not prison. Yeah. I mean, my total time in jail was only like, boy, now I think of it. It wasn't long at all. It was about a month and a half. I did jail in the front and back into prison. A month and a half seems like long. though to me. Like, that's a, each day seems like it's dripping water. Yeah. I mean, oh. In jail, you put it, when in jail, I was in a pod, what's called a pod, and that's where a bunch of, it's like a dorm. And that was crazy and dangerous and just wild. You literally have, you have a station where the cops are, and there's two of them in there. And they're watching a bunch of pods, like watching a fish bowl.

And, you know, each one of those pods could have up to 90, 100 guys or something. And so they're watching each of them. So clearly stuff. happens that they don't they can't do anything about or they don't have the manpower to deal with it like what i'm so curious in the book and in straight pepper diet i wrote about that kid stephen who was in there he was a man child he was a mentally disabled or mentally challenged severe i think he was severely autistic and he had was accused of of some child molestation and i think he was maybe 18 years old but was like 11 year old mentally or six years old or something and he was raped by a big bad gang guy. The guy literally just took a bunk bed, put sheets up, so the cops couldn't see it,

and he took him back there and raped him. I mean, it's just horrible. Stuff like that, and nothing ever happened of it. You know, if you told on the guy or reported it, you'd be, you'd be subject to retaliation. The politics in jail amongst the prisoners seem crazy, too. That seems like a whole, I feel like that's another book that you have to write, like the politics with. Yeah, I don't know enough about it to write anything. Like, I wasn't in there long enough, but, I mean, it's funny. My, my wife. was saying today she's like you need to write a book about jimmy everybody loves jimmy like do you remember jimmy the my cellmate and chino like everybody loves everybody loves jimmy and jimmy is just this amazing character

like people ask me do you keep in touch with jimmy i'm like no jimmy's a very dangerous person i do not keep in touch with jimmy was this guy who i was a cellmate's with he was a 18 year old kid high on speed and robbed a up in big bear and robbed a pawn shop and got put in jail for 20 years or something. And he was 18 years old. I remember him telling me he's 18 years old, and he looks at the calendar on the wall, and he looks at a whole decade of his life. He was on a football team at Big Bear. He was a troubled kid, but never had done anything.

But he was on meth and got high and did this horrible thing. And he was in there, and he was kind of my protector. But he was like my protector the way that a wild tiger that might turn on you could be your protector. hopefully he doesn't turn on you but you know he was clearly a total addict and he was one of these guys was in the system that just like it's so sad to see a guy i mean the chance of that guy ever recuperating from those years in prison to answer your question he was a i was in chino in an area where gang dropouts had been and he on his last day of when he was about to get out on his first

turn which is after like 10 years after an attempted murder charge he was told to murder a fellow gang member and he refused to do so so they attacked him and he got jumped out and once you've been jumped out of gang in prison you can't be in general population because you'll get killed. So that's that was his story. He was just, I mean, he's one of the best characters. I wish I came up with him fictionally because it's so, he was so brilliant. How do you, how do you avoid the gang system in prison if you're there for a long stint? Like it sounds like you, like it's like it sounds like the strategy that like keep yourself,

but you almost can't in a way. And so you almost like get forward. from what I've seen and when I've heard, it sounds like you get sucked in. How do you avoid all of that if you want to just do your time and get out? Because that's the thing that's scary, right? It's like, yeah. The only experience I have with that and this very limited experience was I was the big book thumper guy.

I literally had a big book. I meditated and prayed and read my big book all day long. And so, and I didn't fuck around. I didn't get money in there. I didn't do any favors for anybody. I never ate anything from commissary. I didn't play any of the games anybody plays. And I still had some run-ins, careful, close calls.

So it was almost like being the preacher probably in a jail. That's smart that you didn't get commissary because that seems like that's a big, a big thing in there. Yeah. I knew that. That's smart. I just did not play that game. Very, very smart. Yeah, just didn't do it.

So how long did you, you said you spent a month and a half in jail and then how long were you in prison? 120 days, I think. And what did it feel like when you got out? And I'm assuming you weren't drinking in. You weren't drinking. No, I've been sober for two years when I got out. Got it. The only reason I got out, well, that's the story in the book.

But it was through the 12 steps and the support of the people in 12 steps is why I got out without having to go back in because I was under a 90-day evaluation where I could have had to do more time, years more time. And I don't think I could have survived any more significant time in there. So when I got out, I went to stay with my ex-girlfriend who was also a criminal defense lawyer in West L.A., not too far from here, I just remember walking down the street and drinking a Starbucks and just being like, this is the best fucking Starbucks I've ever drank in my life. Like, oh my God. And just like walking her dog and just looking around and my history or what I deal with on a

regular basis. So it wasn't like I came out and went, everything's glorious now. I'm a two-strike felon, registered sex offender, disbarred lawyer. Things are cheery. But if you're in 12 steps, You know, one thing is that we take things one day at a time, one minute, one second at a time when we have to. And so at that moment, I remember being the happiest, maybe some of the most joy I'd ever felt my life. And one of the reasons is because I was free of addiction at that point. One thing about jail is it's a great rehab, especially if you did it the way I did it. Like I didn't eat, like I said, didn't commissary. I didn't smoke cigarettes.

I didn't drink any of the alcohol that was in there. I did push-ups and prayed. That's what I did in prison. Smart. Really smart. So what do you did you stop drinking for good after that? The night of my arrest was my last drink, July 26, 2003. Congratulations.

Thank you. That's cool. For people that are struggling with addiction that are listening to this story and hoping to turn their life around, like what do you think it was, I mean, outside of obviously going to prison and all these terrible things, but like was there was there a mental unlock or some tool that you found outside of 12 steps that was like, okay, this is how I'm going to turn it all around? Like was there an epiphany?

Was it or is it just day by day? and like how would you, for somebody that is struggling with addiction, like what would you tell them? It's obviously since then multiple author, like successful. Like your life's obviously married. Like everything seems to be going great now. Oh. Well, good question. I hate when people say good question because it makes it.

All of your questions been good. Who's better? Me, huh? You're both very good. I'm just kidding. Well, I guess what I'm trying to get at is I think that whenever we do these episodes, we get a lot of great messages from the audience. Either they have a family member or a friend that they turn on. And it's like, the idea here is like, I want to show people that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that you can turn your life around.

And if there is an unlock that you could pass on to someone, obviously we're going to link out to all 12 steps and, you know, all the recovery programs. But is there something that you have found that has helped you on your journey? One thing that probably differs, like separates me from a lot of other sponsors in in the 12 step rooms in all the different programs I sponsor in is that I really am into the power of 12 steps. steps and how that product that you will become. And what I mean by that is imagine if you're competing for a job with somebody. Again, we live in capitalistic society, right? You're competing with a job someone. I tell my, I tell my sponsor, imagine that you, you're drinking every night, smoking cigarettes, waking up barely in time to get to work. Okay, that's you now. Now imagine you're competing with this dude.

Sober 10 years, never late, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, takes care of his body, has a spiritual program, believes in honesty, integrity, and hard work. Who do you want to compete with? Whether it's athleticism, whether it's service, whether it's work, whatever you're doing, you're going to be very powerful as a recovered addict. So instead of thinking of it, you hear a lot in the rooms of like, oh, I'm a piece of shit. and I'm by the grace of God, I'm just, I don't drink and smoke anymore. I'm like, I'm not into that. I'm into, this is a self-improvement program, whether people, a lot of people say it's not. It is.

12 steps are a self-improvement program that involves spirituality. And just be honest with yourself, who do you want to be? If you really like drinking and you're willing to die young, commit, maybe commit, horrible acts and have liver problems and all these things, if you're that serious of a drinker, then be honest and say, okay, I'm cool with it. I'm going to die like that. But be honest with yourself who you are and what you want. It was very easy to me. I never wanted to be an addict. I always wanted to achieve certain goals. I've always been an athlete. The idea of smoking and drinking and being an athlete is ridiculous. That's probably, I don't know if that's a

it's an amazing answer. I hope it helps somebody out there listening because it's just, I just work with a lot of sober people, especially since COVID happened. I've sponsored a lot of people through, you know, all over the country, which I normally don't do because you can do it through Zoom. It's heartbreaking, but it's also like you just see there's so many people out there struggling with different things. And, man, it's so powerful to get control of your life. Do you see more alcohol, more pills, more hard drugs? What do you see the most? I see alcohol, cigarettes, and sex almost all the time, maybe a little pill,

here and there, but that probably has more to do with me than them. Yeah. Because they see my story and they know I was never a pill popper. Yeah. And I didn't do heroin or coke or any of that. I did a little coke here and there, but never to the point of addiction. So that's it. Your new book, tell us all about it and what we can expect.

So the Paul's graph revelation is where straight pepper diet left off. So if you haven't read straight pepper diet, please read that. I promise you you'll find it entertaining. You won't put it down. It's very entertaining and honest. And so this one's written very similarly, but this is the book that takes you from, okay, now that you've survived the worst scenario, how do you move forward? How do you live a sober life? How do you move forward?

And in my particular circumstances, I have this incredibly daunting label now. I'm a registered sex offender, two-strike felon, disbarred lawyer, right? how can you mentally, emotionally, financially, physically move on from that? And it's like my other book, it's a day-to-day first-person account of that of just like, first it was just straight up survival. Like, how the hell does a guy like me get a job? Like, who the hell is going to hire me? Like, coming to this podcast 10 years ago, I would have been freaked out.

I'd been like, the people at the desk are going to do a run a check on me. I'm going to get in trouble for even being here. It's scary to even be. And to have these labels. And now I've moved on to the point of where I rarely even think about it. I am 100% okay with the truth of what happened and where I am now and what I do with my life. But it wasn't an easy journey. This book takes how I got a job.

I ended up getting a job. I'll tell one thing that's in the book. I ended up getting a job in a Fortune 500 company as a registered sex offender, which is mind-boggling. and the way it happened was mind-boggling. People are probably listening to this thinking the registered sex offender thing. The reason it was, I should probably clarify that. The reason I'm a registered sex offender is because when I broke into that massage parlor, the DA opined that I was there to commit a rape. In California, we have laws that prevent evidence of alcohol being used as a defense to your mental state. So if I'd have been on crack that night, I wouldn't be here talking to you.

I'd still be a lawyer. But because you can't present that defense. or you can, but only in a limited way. And the fact that I am who I am and was risking 20 years in prison, I pled guilty to assault with intent to commit rape. And even though the guy, it was a man and you can't rape a man, they said that when I broke into the place, my intent was to commit a rape. So that's why I'm a registered sex offender. So it didn't have to do with the massage person.

It had to do with the guy. The massage parlor was closed. There was nobody in there. It was three in the morning. I just thought maybe they. you were going there to the massage parlor to like have sex with one of the girls there. So it was actually about the guy. They thought the VA thought that I had was going to break in the massage parlor with the intent to commit a rape on a masseuse, even though I stopped and got $100 and I was

out of my mind and everything. And so that's why. Well, and also I could be wrong on this, but because you're a lawyer, I feel like you had a much bigger target on your back as well. But they're going to make an example of somebody that has a law degree that's past the bar that is committing crimes. Yeah, I agree with that, especially since it gave me a chance with my DUI. And I had the same experience with DUI. I was very well connected in Riverside. I worked for one of the biggest law firms there and I was an up-and-comer and they were, they threw the book at me. And I think in Los Angeles, people will argue with this, but I think it was actually a bad move on my part to hire one. I had one of the best lawyers in LA. Oh, that makes a bigger target. I think the DA really was looking

forward to getting some publicity and trying this case. It's crazy, though, because all your struggles have made you this incredible author with two books. I mean, that's full to look at. That's got to be a good feeling. I think what we love about this story, especially for people that are maybe not as far along on the path of recovery as you are. It's like, it's a story of redemption. Like, even though you have all of these marks on your record, you're still functioning in society and still a successful human being. And I think that's what people need to hear is like, it's not there is a light at the tunnel if you work for it and you do the steps and you get into recovery. It's not like, hey, you have all these labor. and your life's over. You can turn it around. Oh, yeah. I mean, my life, I mean, I have sponcyes that are like

celebrities that have, that weren't celebrities when they started on the road to recovery, successful lawyers that had been not able to get their bar license because they were addicts. I mean, it's just amazing. But my life, so everybody has to start where they are. Obviously, it's a little different when you start where I was, given the things. But most people don't come to me with these type of situation. They come to me before that. Thank God. So yeah, totally. I mean, to give you an example of my life now, it's like I'm married to the, my wife, I'm absolutely in love with her and I'm just so grateful for her. I live in this beautiful house in Highland Park. I play golf twice a week. I'm in the best health I've ever been. I'm 50 years old and I'm as good as shape now as I was when I was 24 and middleweight kickboxer. And I get to help people. What a life. Yeah. Feel free to come back anytime. Where can everyone buy both of your book? I personally read your book on my iPhone when I couldn't sleep at night.

So I know you can get it there. But where else? It's on Amazon. I think we've exclusively gone Amazon. You can go to my website, Joseph W.nause.com, N-A-U-S as in Sam. And you can read the first chapter of both of them, I think. And you can go to Audible. They're both on Audible if you like audio.

I voiced both of them. And yeah, you can read them there. We'll link it all out. What's your Instagram handle? It's Joseph W. Nass, but you're just going to find golf swings there. Okay. Okay. And then my last question is, if someone is struggling with addiction and they're listening to this podcast, what's the resource that they should go to if you were to recommend one? Ooh, listening to this podcast and they want a resource. Well, they can go to any, they can just go to any, whatever their addiction is, they can go to the 12-step version of that and go find a meeting. If you're not at that point and you want some information and you're not sold on 12 steps,

I would highly recommend you read either of my books. And I would also recommend that you read the book called The Pleasure Trap, which sets out the scientific basis for addiction. Yeah, that's probably what I would recommend. Thank you so much for taking the time. Can I ask you guys a question? Sure. What's it like living in Austin?

Because my wife and I are just like smog, traffic, why am I paying this much for a house when I don't talk to work? I think of coming out. Can we convince you here? Not necessarily in Austin, but maybe some other places, it's a little more green. Well, I think there's a lot, there's an assortment of decisions. And Lauren and I did that episode on why we moved to Texas. But the biggest thing is we have a young daughter now. She's a year old. And we wanted a place where we had a little bit more open space, green, nature.

And I think the one beautiful, I mean, there's a lot of beautiful things about Austin. But the Austin particular compared to some other places in Texas. Like you get all that nature. You get the lakes. You get the rivers. You get the greenery. amazing food, amazing people. I have not missed one thing about California. It's very idyllic. Like, it's very, it's, it's what I envisioned when I was, like, was little for a family. It's very

serene and there is, it's kind of like a sanctuary. And we're in the suburbs, you know, we got, I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't feeling that in L.A. The air is so crisp over there. That's, like, the biggest thing, like, just breathe fresh air. Yeah. Even we just had that storm there. We were there with the crazy storm. Our life is so chaotic. So to be able to slow down and take walks in the morning and also it's amazing because it's two hours ahead. So by the time I've done all the wellness things I want to do a cold shower, a walk, sat and had coffee, I read my book, all these things. And it's 11 o'clock. It's 9 o'clock in California. So that's been absolutely fucking amazing to be able to be two hours ahead. Yeah. And even with the storm, we were just there. And obviously there's

an infrastructure issue in Texas with, you know, the power going out and all that. It was cold as shit and the roads are all icy. But even during that, people from California, and I'm thinking about coming back to California, I'm like, now, even with the storm, I still like Austin better. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. There's a lot of good. It's a lot of, and you know what it feels like right now? It's such a growth city, which I'm sure some people in Texas dislike, but it feels like there's just so much energy in the city, and it feels like so much is happening there. And it, to me, like I started to feel a little bit more stagnant in L.A. and bigger cities. And so I like that we're in nature, have space.

and we'll also have the kind of like, of this feels like it's a boomtown, like it's growing. Oh, okay. We're going to fly out there. Because I know, check it out. Because I don't know anything about Texas. I've only flown through there a few times. I did a friend who was in Austin. He said, Austin's great, but just remember, you're surrounded by Texas. That's what he always said to me. But I was like, because I never thought that it was green, but I don't know anything about it. All I see is they have a tournament, PGA tournament every year in Austin that they, and with the bridge in the background. Yeah, they have a great. Actually, that's really funny that you say that they have, the thing I keep hearing about it is their golf community. It's like everywhere. I love pretty much everything about Texas. Really? Pretty much everything. I mean, it's been, it's been good. Check it out. If you come out, you got to let us know. We also grew up here too. So it was nice to have a change of pace, right? Like we were from Southern California. I had some businesses in Riverside, actually, in Corona. Oh, really? Yeah, once upon a time. And so like, we felt like, hey, like, California is always going to be here. It does this. But like, to have a little bit of a change of pace and do something different. I think like it's good for people to change once in a while. Yeah. I'm definitely going to fly out there and we're going to check it out. Yeah, you got to check it out. You have a two year old? One year old. One year old? Yep. It's fun. Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. That's fun. Thank you so much for taking the time. But we will link out your books and come back anytime because

I feel like there's so many questions that I could have still asked you on my list. Maybe the next one we do with the studio in Texas. Yeah, thanks for, thanks for appeasing my curiosity. I'm sure people are curious about a couple of things. Taylor, don't you get any ideas back there about the massage parlor. Taylor's not even there. He already laughed. He's skin out in his car. Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah, no, they're rating them on a daily basis now, so don't go. Don't go. Cheers. Do you want to win a copy of Joseph's book? It is good. It is juicy. It is to the point. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode with Joseph on my latest Instagram at The Skinny Confidential, and someone from the team will drop into one of your inboxes. With that, make sure you've read it and

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