The Bossticks - The Branding Whisperer Shaun Neff On How To Build Brand, Avoid Branding Mistakes, & Launch A New Brand

Episode Date: March 31, 2020

#257: On this episode we sit down with Shaun Neff. Shaun is known as The Branding Whisperer. He's worked with everyone from: Snoop Dogg, 2chainz, Wiz khalifa, Kendall Jenner, Shay Mitchell, and Millie Bobby Brown to launch many well known brands. Some of those brands include Neff, Sunbum, Florence by Mills, Moon, Beis, & Pattern. So when it comes to branding and how to build brands, Shaun knows his stuff. On this episode we cover all things branding and what it takes to build successful brands. To connect with Shaun Neff click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Versed. Versed is the non-toxic, cruelty-free, and vegan skincare brand that's hyper-focused on bringing you real results at prices your bank account appreciates. Their products are made with proven ingredients at skin-changing levels, without the fussy packaging and conventional markups. You only pay for what matters—the goop inside the bottle Get 10% off for first time users when you shop at versedskin.com with promo code SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 25,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for free. That's right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/TSC.  This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work.  Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to by Skillshare. So, for those of you that do not know what Skillshare is, Skillshare is an online learning community that offers membership with meaning with thousands of classes online for people like you and me. Skillshare is a proud sponsor of the Skinny Confidential. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash TSC and get two free months of premium membership. That's two whole months of unlimited access to thousands of classes for free.

Get started and joined today by heading to Skillshare.com slash TSC and TSC. That's skillshare.com slash TSC. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness.

Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. The branding side of it, right, that ties in your packaging, how you look on the shelf, how, you know, how you're going to pop. Like, you look at Sunbum, right? And that brand, there wasn't a ton of big celebrity support or marketing, right? It was killer packaging that stuck out on the shelf, that wood grain with the yellow monkey. And that was iconic. Coming in live, coming in hot from the bunker, the quarantine bunker.

Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. That clip was from our guests of the show today, Sean Neff. Boy, oh, boy, do we have an episode for you? you are interested in building a brand and understanding how to build brands. Guys, my name is Michael Bostick. I am an entrepreneur and brand builder. Most recently, the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And across from me, my very quarantined, very social distance wife, Lauren Everts, Bostick.

Hello, hello, hello, hello, quarantined. Ooh, things are wild. We're trying to stay positive. And I think this episode will breathe a little positivity into your life. So whether you are just hanging out with your dog or, you're cooking in the kitchen, doing laundry, doing your makeup. I hope we can add a little positivity to your day. And listen, guys, I want to say thank you to everybody that listens because during this

isolation, I have not felt, and I don't know if like, I probably could speak for my wife, that isolated because we still continue to produce this podcast every single week, sometimes twice a week if it's a, you know, one of those every other Fridays. And, you know, we're still out here. We're still talking. Can't shut us up. I can't feel isolated because Zaza is just so cute and sweet and I'm obsessed. Basically on paternity leave now.

You know, basically a stay-at-home dad now. That's so challenging. Doing all right. Okay. You complained about 300 times. I'm getting very efficient with my time. No, you guys. He doesn't know what to do.

He looks at me. He goes, oh, wow, whoa, wow. There was someone that commented the other day and said, well, just wait until he has to spend more than five minutes with the baby. Look, I spend hours and hours with the baby. He does spend hours and hours with the baby. I'll give him that. But then you get to a point where it's like, you need me.

You look at me and you say, okay. It's true. After like 19 hours, I need you to step in for about time. out your tit, Michael. That's true. And I wouldn't want to. Guys, we got a good episode here. If you guys are interested, and listen, I know there's a lot of young people, a lot of people just in general that listen to this show that are interested in building a brand. Well, we have an amazing brand builder on the show today. His name is Sean Neff, also known as the Brand Whisper. He's worked with everyone from Snoop Dog, Two Chains, Wiz Khalifa, Kendall Jenner, Shea Mitchell and Millie Bobby Brown,

creating brands like Neff, Sunbum, Florence by Mills, Moon, Bass, Pattern. I mean, guys, this guy's created a lot of amazing brands. And I have to hop in here for my own personal self and just tell you that if I were a listener of this show, this would be one of my top five episodes. I am so into branding. It's like if I wasn't doing what I'm doing as a creator, I would be into branding into that's kind of scope of work. So to have Sean on the show and pick his brain was like really just like orgasmic for me to be honest. I mean, there's so many people, so many young entrepreneurs that get sales confused with branding, they are two completely different things. Branding is more important. I'll tell you that. Building a brand is more important

because the sales come if you have a big brand. If you don't have a brand, sales can fall off really easily. But brand will always protect you, which is why if you're interested in building a brand, this is an episode that I would pay special attention to. Take your note, pat out. Sean's an expert. He's done it multiple times. There's a lot of gems here. So with that, guys, Sean Neff, the brand whisperer. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. So you're a freshman in high school, not college. College.

Oh, college. Freshman and college. Okay. And how do you think of this brand? Yeah, for me, because I grew up in Southern California and I was always into skating, snowboarding, surfing, and kind of loved being a consumer and, like, buying those brands, like what it meant to rock that T-shirt. This means my vibe.

what I do on the weekend. So in high school, I just was always had the dream like, oh, when I grew up, I'd love to have a brand like that because I was just obsessed with like buying that stuff, being a part of that brand. So literally freshman in college, I was like, I don't know anything. I've never really done a business or anything, but I want to start a clothing brand. So I literally tried to register a bunch of different names. It didn't work. So I was like, well, that Bob Hurley, dude just did it on Hurley. I'll just use my last name, Neff. And it was just short four letters. And I printed some t-shirts and ran around school hustling kids coming out of class that I thought had like dope sneakers trying to pedal t-shirts. And that's where I started my first brand Neff.

So you were essentially an influencer kind of before there was such thing. Ish. Like, and I knew how to leverage like the influencers in that town, right? Like the dopest DJ. the best kid at the skate park. Surfers. The surfers. Yeah. And Neff really started with the top surf skate snow athletes in the world. Like the true ghetto hustle story is I started selling a bunch of t-shirts.

And then I ended up meeting a lot of these big pro snowboarders and became friends with them. And I was like, hey, can you rock this t-shirt? And they're like, no, I'm on Burton or I'm on Nike. I was like, oh, I've never seen a contract. Can I see your contract? and read through it and it said nothing about headware. And true story was there was an Olympic qualifying snowboard event up in Park City. And I was like, oh my gosh, like, do you think I can make like a beanie and put NEP on it and have them rock it?

I was like, probably not because their sponsors are going to get bummed, but whatever. That was my only angle. So I went to a 99-cent store, bought like 20 of the most ghetto beanies and headbands you've ever seen, and bought a Sharpie. And I wrote Neff on like 20. 20 pieces, went up there, rift with the agents. I was already friends with a couple of the pros. And there on the, right on the podium was the dude rocking my headband after he, you know, won with my last name on it. That is such a good story because I feel like there's so many people that are listening that feel like they have to launch with something that's perfect.

Yes. Can you kind of speak on that how you just, it sounds like you just launched fast and adjust it. I also think people think they have to spend all this money to make this amazing, like, brand story. It's not always necessarily the case. Here we go. At home, we're learning skills with Skillshare. Everybody, Skillshare. Don't BS me and tell me you don't have time on your hands right now. I know you got time on hands. We all got time on our hands. We're locked down. We're in quarantine. We're not going anywhere. Yeah, it's time to explore new skills, deep in existing passions, and get lost in creativity with Skillshare. Guys, there is time right now. Like Michael said, no one can use that excuse. This is the perfect opportunity to use Skillshare. Like I could not think of a better

opportunity. So we've been talking about Skillshare for a long time. They've been a partner of this show for almost as long as we can remember. As long as this show, I'd like to think as long as this show has been in existence. But for those of you that may zone out once in a while and, you know, maybe miss the boat on Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning community where millions come together to take the next step in their creative journey or careers with millions of classes inspired by people like you and I. Listen, what I love about Skillshare, I was always a bad student. I couldn't relate to the teachers. I couldn't relate to the curriculum.

And what I love about this platform is it's people, just everyday people that have acquired a skill, put it online, teaching. I feel like, you know, it's more relatable. It's easier digest. For anyone who's thinking about launching, just launch. Michael always says this, launch fast and adjust. You can go on there. You can learn all about how to use Instagram video.

You know those videos that we do with our podcast and we brand it. We learned how to do that on Skillshare. A lot of us are sitting around right now wondering how do, we stay productive in this current quarantine environment. And I wanted to point out one of the classes that I've referenced before is a class called Productivity Masterclass, Create a Customs System that works with Thomas Frank. This is an amazing course from productivity. I need to revamp the whole way I thought about productivity sitting in this quarantine. So to try Skillshare, we have an amazing offer. It's a proud sponsor of the Skinny Confidential. Explore your creativity at

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Skillshare.com slash TSC. No, and I love that. It's, and it's weird now, right? Because now I'm continuing to build brands and that's what I do for a living and like launched four different companies in the last 12 months. And those have just been like, buttoned up, pretty dialed, right?

Big talent, Alta full chain rollouts, boots, UK, whatever. But when I go back to Neff, it's like, yeah, it was like that first, like, intuition that like, yo, I think I could do this. Like, this feels like I'm supposed to do this, right? And I know business plan, didn't even know what a P&L was,

didn't know I need to have X amount of funding. and I think that's what got me in the game. Like if I would have known what I know now, I would have never started Neff. Like our first trade show, it was like the big trade show, and I like hustled on a phone call. I was like, you know, young kid calling this big director

and I'm like, hey, I've got this brand Neff, but we're just starting, but here's the athletes that we signed. And it was like, if it was basketball, it was like we'd have LeBron and Coke, I'd be the biggest guys in the world. But I was like, we don't really have money, but I want to be right next to birth.

because they were kind of the leaders. So they gave me a little spot. But then I was like, oh my gosh, you have to have a booth. I didn't know. I thought they might provide wall. So I was like driving past a haunted house that was closing down. And I hustled the dude for 50 bucks to cut me like, you know, a square of a haunted house booth. It was 10 by 10 that fit the regulations.

I literally gave it to them, but I printed it out. That was my booth. But like today I would never go show up at a big trade show with the most ghetto thing in the world. But the fact that I was there and we had culture. And I used to look at Burton like, oh, they're whack. They spent $5 million on a boot. That's lame. So like that gritty first hustle, I think, yeah, people are jaded on the idea that you need to go raise a ton of money and you have to have this buttoned up thing.

It's like go do something that no one else is doing. And sure, down the road, that stuff will fall in place. But like I always talk about dream, believe, and hustle. You look at most people's first businesses and it's mad ghetto how they start and it's just gritty and you blow it up. I think if you, like you said, if you hear all the things as the person now in building all these brands, you know, there's a huge checklist of things when you launch a new brand, right? Also, you have the resources, the people, the money of the time to do it. Different game.

But if you told all those people that are starting up for the first time that they needed all the things you have now, they would be like there's no fucking way out. Yeah, there's no way they could do it. No. So how did you scale neff and when did you know it was time to scale neff? Yeah. So, you know, the world, it's different now. With social media, you can go zero to a hundred quick, right?

which is good and bad. Good that you can blow something up overnight. Like I look at the businesses we're doing at Beach House and like how big these things are getting in like four or five months, right? You could never really do that back in the day. Back in the day it was nice because you had to like start small. You had to test the concept. Like for Neff, it was in like we started in snowboarding.

So it was all over like the best shops in Park City in Utah and Colorado. So we like were very limited and we were like the first year in like, you know, 15 stores. So it was super tiny and you know we were buying beanies from I found a website that made beanies and I was literally paying retail buying those taking it to my wife's aunt who lived not far away she would take off their labels and sew mine on like just the mad get I was like I don't know freaking make a beanie. So like the crazy hustle but that allowed me to kind of figure out some stuff and then we created you know buzz and we were in a niche of headwear so I was able to call the Burton sales rep for, you know, Southern California and be like, yo, we're non-competitive.

We're a beanie company. We have these athletes. So there was a lot of unique little ways that we got in. And it just started, you know, catching on, but pretty slow, right? And we did, I mean, slow, but I was stoked the whole time. It's like, you get in one store and you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, I would, like, sit in front of that. Milo was our first snowboard shop we in it.

And I'd, like, park outside and be like, whoa, my hat's in that store. Like, whoa, someone just walked in and like, whoa, I wonder if they buy my hat. And then, like, the first time we got in a magazine, it was, like, at the checkout at, like, a Vaughn's. I, like, chilled at the Vaughns. And I was, like, whoa, like, 10 people just, like, bought something, and they just walk past the Neff thing, right? So I was, like, super stoked on the journey.

And that thing scaled from just, we put together the right snowboard athletes, and it went into skate surf. We had good distribution. And then I started working with, like, Snoop and Wiz and Dead Mouse and Mac Miller. And we did a ton of collapse, Scarlet Johansson, and just kind of over. a good, you know, 10 years kind of scaled that brand. We were in like 70 countries. We were a top brand in like the Zumi's, Tilly's Nordstrom of the world. When you say scaled, it's not a small scale. It's like, yeah, half a billion dollars in revenue or so. Yeah, as of now, yeah, we've done over

a half a billion in revenue. And I sold that company about four and a half years ago. Is it hard to sell a company with your name on it? Yeah, it was interesting. I mean, it was my first hurrah. Meaning hard like not. Yeah, because it's my last name. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was strange. It was two things. It was one, it was like, whoa, this is going to be weird because it is my last name. I've always been like Sean Neff of Neff. Everyone calls me Neff. So like that's going to be weird that like the brand's going to do its thing because it was so a part of me. Like every collaboration, every store was kind of like my hustle. So that was challenging. But I think for me it was like I had to separate and be like, look, this is a business. We've created this unique opportunity. It's growing tremendously fast. And for me, I always, you know, being very opportunistic, I'm like, if there's never an opportunity to get an exit that can change your life and provide for your family and do that kind of thing. It like to me, that was always a part of eventual goal because I always felt like some of the best companies in the world. There's other people trying to buy them. That really means you created value.

So it was tough and it is still a little funky not being involved. But I look at it as, hey, that's where I cut my teeth in business. forever grateful for that brand and what I learned. And back to what you said, you nailed it. Like, so many people are so scared. It seems so daunting to, like, start your own business and you hear all about these fundraisers. But, like, the people that get it are like, it always usually starts ghetto. Yeah. I mean, we started this podcast out of our kitchen living room with the shittiest equipment, like now this and 30 shows under management. I mean, it's just like, there was no funding. It was just literally her and I having margaritas one day, be like, hey, we could do this.

It would be fun. And a lot of fucking fights, to be honest. It sounded like fucking shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? That's terrible. But that's, but people can relate to that, right?

Like you built credible audience. People are like, yo, they're in their kitchen. Like if you would have went from, it's our first podcast. You're in this dope big studio and, you know,

these crazy lights. People were like, what happened? Like, who's behind them? Is it real? Like, who funded? Like, you know, I think you got a star hustle.

In the beginning, it was like this awkward, grainy video. My sister was asking us questions, but she was like half in, half off the camera. It wasn't great. It wasn't great. So how did you start to dip your toe into working with other brands? Yeah. So during while I had Neff, I did a bunch of different advising and consulting. So I was Sony Electronics kind of youth culture advisor for a couple years. Like, you know, what are the trends pop in? What are the color ways that are relevant? Like what does certain talent mean at certain places? So that was cool. And then shortly after that, Target hired me. They were in the process of reading.

doing their kids apparel business used to be Sean White Mossimo and Cherokee. Then they reflipped the whole thing and kind of did two brands, art class and cat jack. And so they hired me to kind of help with that process. And I worked heavily on art class, which was like their cooler brand, you know, better unique products. And they worked with influencers. So I dabbled there. And then the next hurrah I got on to was about seven years ago I got a phone call. At the time, it was a small little company that was running out of capital and needed funding and some expertise. And I ended up funding that company about seven years ago. Kind of at that time became the second largest sharehold. And we ended up just selling that like seven months ago. And that was sunbum. So that was an

amazing. We sold that company sold to SC Johnson. So I just got a huge box from them for the baby. Isn't there? There's a baby bum. Baby bum. I was going to list some of your brands here. I mean, outside of Naps, Sunbum, Florence by Mills, but Millie Bobby. Billy Bobby Brown. Yeah. I'll pass that one up. Moon with Kendall Jenner. Yeah. How many brands at this point have you worked on?

Yeah. A bunch. A lot of big brands. Yeah, a lot of big brands. So like, yeah, now, I mean, as of a couple years, I've been pretty focused at Beach House. That's kind of been the new company and it's going incredibly well. Like you said, we launched those four businesses in the last 12 months. And it's been insane.

We met with like over a hundred different talent, like some biggest talent in the world. you know, and I've been lucky enough. And then my partner, PJ at Beach House, we have really good relationships with all the CMO, CEOs of the biggest, you know, retailers in the world. So back to where, like, when you start, you got to hustle now, you know, I wouldn't say it's easier because for a brand to stick for a consumer to think they need it, that they're going to put money out of their wallet, is it better than what they're used to buying? It's still very challenging.

But at this stage, it's nice to be able to, you know, like Moon. It was like, what I love doing is walking around aisles at stores. And I just go like, yo, what aisle looks bad or what aisle needs something new or unique, right? Fucking genius. Yeah. And like, oral care was like that aisle. I'm like, oh, there's those same big blue and green bottles I've seen forever that are ugly. Here's the red, white, and blue toothpaste I've seen forever.

So I was like, there was nothing that looked good. Oral care was always something that someone wants to hide or put away. and I'm like, yo, let's look something dope right next to like your Chanel perfume or like, let's make it look good. And then we had this concept of oral beauty. Then we created this whitening pen. And I had known Kendall for a while. So I went over to Kendall's house and said, yo, here's moon. Like let's go disrupt oral care. So she became a partner. So yeah, now Beach House, we're just incubating primarily beauty brands. I mean, we have base, right, with Shane Mitchell, which is on the travel side. But primarily everything now is beauty. And it's been a fun, crazy year to, I just look for a.

amazing, you know, it starts with killer product. Like if you don't have good product, you're done, right? Like if your podcast wasn't rad and people didn't want to listen to it, you wouldn't have a podcast next week, right? So like, whatever your product is, it's got to be great. And then from there, it comes down to how are you going to let the world know? So that's why we've been very focused on killer product, something that we feel is not already on the shelf or we can tell a different story. And then go find a storyteller that can tell the world that you exist. So that's been kind of the Beach House model.

And how do you guys at Beach House work with an influencer or celebrity? Like how do you structure it? Is it like they're in charge of going out marketing it and distributing it and you're in charge of the brand or is it collaborative? How does that work? Hold up. Let's talk about pants. Pants that hold you in beta brand.

Okay. If you're lazy like me and you don't want to change out of your pants and you just want to get ready for work and just be super comfortable and then be able to go to happy hour and not have all these buttons and pop. pockets sticking in to your skin, then you're going to love Beta Brand's dress pant yoga pants. I'm telling you, these are not the pants that you're unbuttoning at a stoplight because they're cutting off your circulation on your love handles, okay? I've been there. I get it. There's nothing worse. These pants are your friend if you want to tighten things up and flatter your ass.

I'm telling you. It's like everything just lifts up. These are your dream pants because they take you from the office to home to happy hour, kind of anywhere. Also, just be warned, Michael always tries to smack my ass when I'm wearing them because it kind of gives me a lift. They're comfortable. They're very stylish, chic comfort, if you will. They have dozens of colors. I always go for the color black, but you do you. They have patterns, cuts and styles. So bootleg, straight leg, skinny, cropped, I'm a fan, you know, of the skinny jeans. I just feel like they keep everything looking long and lean. And if you're more of a denim girl, they have a premium denim with the same flexibility and comfort as the yoga pants. So everything basically with Beta Brand is just really,

really comfortable. You don't have to sacrifice comfort or function for style. I concur, Lauren. I do concur. You concur, Michael? I concur. Okay. Michael concurs. Right now, our listeners can get 20% off their first order when you go to Betabrand.com slash skinny. That's 20% off your first order at betabrand.com slash skinny. millions of women agree that these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work. Sign me up. Go to bedbrand.com slash skinny for 20% off your order. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, so in the beginning, it's very important we find someone that wants to work.

Like, they understand it's a business. That's the key. Yeah, that's not always the easiest thing to find. Oh, no. So that's critically important. And then they're incentivized like we are, right, to build a business. So we don't write big upfront check. and we don't say, hey, you're a big talent.

Let's pay you money to do this. It's like, no, let's create a business. They're incentivized. They all have a nice chunk of equity in the company, right? So they're incentivized like us to go build a brand that's valuable that maybe potentially one day can have an exit or is kicking off a ton of cash, right, that they can along the journey. So that's kind of the big piece of our model. So we find people that they want to work and they know what they do, right?

Like, you know, and everyone's a little bit different. And I think we find people that want to be very into these business. I mean, like Shay Mitchell drives base, the design, the look and feel, the product development, the marketing. Like, she's all in, right? Same with all of our partners. But we want to find people that want to work and they know that their big value is going to be pushing it through their social channels, doing events, getting friends to post it.

That's kind of their main hurrah. but tapping into their secret success, like Shea's authentic to travel. Like she's done Sheikations for years. So it wasn't out of the blue that Shea Mitchell has her own travel brand. It's like makes sense to people like anything. You have to have like 50 things align for it to work. So we try to.

There's a lot of digital talent that does the opposite of that, which is like they, you know, they have a platform and they've been talking about travel for all these years. And then all of a sudden they go and do like clothing. You're like, what the hell's that? I know. It's a huge mistake. One of my questions here for you because you're such an expert,

it is what do you think makes a solid brand? Like there's a couple key elements. I think people get marketing and branding confused. I know they're like they share. They're in the same world. But I think when you can see a distinguishable brand, it is so clear. And I think so many people, if they focus a little bit more on brand and less on marketing, it would be so much further along.

Yeah. No, that's a great point. I mean, you know, the branding side of it, right? That ties in your packaging, how you look on the shelf, how, you know, how you're going to pop. Like, you look at Sunbum, right? And that brand, there wasn't a ton of big celebrity support or marketing, right? It was killer packaging that stuck out on the shelf, that wood grain with the yellow monkey. And that was iconic, right?

So I think if people can focus on the presentation, how it looks on a shelf, how it can pop. I mean, that's a massive distinct ability, right? Because marketing, yeah, sure, you can have a big personality say, hey, go buy this. but the people walking through a target one in a 10,000 of them have ever heard that that celebrity talked, that Kendall Jenner is a part of Moon. But if they walk by and see a dope N-cap that's all black, that's sleek, that the packaging looks amazing and it's toothpaste, people walk by and they're like, whoa, I've never seen toothpaste that looks like that, right? And you get a ton of customers.

So the actual branding piece, which is the packaging, it's what you say. It's like for us, oral beauty. Like, that's branding. Like, we could have just made dope packaging and put Kendall a part of it and go, but the fact that its position is oral beauty. We went to Ulta and we're like, you don't have oral care. Like, yeah, we're not in the business of oral care. Like, we don't buy toothpaste. And I'm like, cool.

Well, have you ever bought oral beauty? And they were like, oh, well, what do you mean oral beauty? In essence, we're selling toothpaste, but we changed, you know, we branded it. and put it in a light that was different where they were like, that makes sense. And now, I mean, like Kendall's whitening pen has been like a top 20 skew at Ulta ever since we launch, which is crazy. That doesn't surprise me. But that is true what you just said.

He created his own category. Yeah, I feel like the best brands are also things that the general consumer, it says something about them, right? But when they buy a brand, it's also an expression of self. 100%. Yeah. Community buildings, massive. I mean, we're seeing that with Millie Bobby Brown right now in Florida.

I mean, she's, I've never seen it. She's an anomaly. Oh, unicorn, right? Like, her audience, the stickiness. I mean, we just did something a couple weeks ago. We're like, all she did was one swipe up. And it was like, hey, Florence family, you know, what should we make next? Within 24 hours, 97,000 people send in comments and product ideas.

We're like, holy shit. And even when we launched, we collected almost, I don't know, 130,000 emails, 24 hours. We launched the brand. I mean, I think community too, like you talked about it earlier, is so important. How do you think that you can leverage your community in 2020? I mean, social media, obviously. But say you're just starting out. Like, how important is community?

Yeah, it's massive, right? Because in the end, right, as a brand builder, you're only as good as what the customer. thinks you are, right? So like so many brands like sit in this nice office and be like, oh, we're so rad and like, look at this cool thing we just created and look at our product, it tastes so good. But then it's like if the person walking the shelf that doesn't think it looks good or when they taste it doesn't think it tastes good, right? The brand's dead. So I think it's important that a, you're making product that's fit for a community, right? Like you need to be very particularly like patterns a good example like Tracy Ellis Ross the curly coily hair market she's an

absolute figurehead in that market and has been for several years and she used to as a young kid call a phone number check the humidity level and literally go how am I going to wear my hair today right so like take someone like that that is already a leader in that community that's already dealt with that problem. And now she goes out to her friends in that whole community and she represents them for what she has never found in product. And then you bring the whole community with you on the brand journey. Right. You never, I think it's important to never like act like like Tracy's does in a great job saying, hey, this is where we started. Here's some key products that have worked for me and my friends. And now we're continuing to talk to that community about what works, what doesn't.

do you want more of this and more of that? So I think people sometimes sit there and go, yeah, we're so good and our brand's so dope and we're killing it. But yet they lack the collaboration with their actual customers. Yeah. And I think as an influencer too, like if you're going to launch a product, you touch on this later, like it's so important to content market like you just said and tell us story. So when you do launch product, it makes so much fucking sense that the consumer has been on this journey with them, that they have to buy it from them.

I think you have to be really careful right now as an influencer not to sell everyone else's brand and really refine how your content marketing to launch your own product eventually. Like I think that there's so many influencers out there right now that are just hawking everyone else's brand and it's saturating their own brand and their ability to content market to eventually launch what that should be. Totally. So Shea Mitchell's brand, you've brought this person. The purse is gorgeous.

It's like the office tote. It's so cute, you guys. It's like black snake skin. It's huge. The first thing I noticed when you walked in. How did you guys work together to build that? Hot Break to talk about skincare. One of my favorite subjects, especially now that I'm quarantined.

You guys have seen that I have really up to my skincare game since being in the house. Like every day I give myself a mini facial. So there's this brand. You've seen it on my Instagram stories and on my Instagram actually. And it's called Verst. Verst is this non-toxic, cruelty-free and vegan skincare brand. we are really, really careful with the brands that we vet for the show, and this one is legit. The reason I like it is because you get results, but it doesn't break your bank account.

So the products are just really effective, but they're inexpensive, too. So all their products are affordable and they're backed by experts. My absolute favorite versus product is the conditioning lip oil. I feel like it stays on your lips for a long time, especially in this weather. I feel like, you know, like when you get like little fine lines on your lips, this fills it in. I like the fact that it's non-toxic and effective and I'm putting that on my lips and I just know that there's no like nasty chemicals in it. Another thing you should know about this brand is that they banned over 1,300 toxins and questionable ingredients. If you're on their site and you're looking

for other products to add to your cart since it is so inexpensive, definitely check out their dew point moisturizing gel cream. Fashion Lash Erica is a huge fan of this, talks about it all the time, and their baby cheeks hydrating milk. You can expect all their products to be pastel vibes. And what I like, too, about their Instagram feed, if you go and look at it, it's at first. They educate you on each product and they tell you how to use it. They tell you how to layer your skin care. They just give you, like, all the specifics. So definitely check them out.

I think you guys are going to be very, very obsessed with this brand. It's definitely one that I think is very much on the pulse. All Skiny Confidential, him and her listeners, get 10% off for first time users when you shop at firstskin.com with promo code Skinny. That's V-E-R-S-E-D-S-K-K-I-N dot com with promo code skinny. That's 10% off for first-time users with promo code skinny. All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, so I had known Shea through a mutual friend for several years,

and we had always rift on business ideas. Like, you know, what I loved about Shea is even when the first times we met, she was all about building a company, right? She wasn't like, hey, like my goal. I mean, she still has obviously an amazing acting career and she's going to do her thing, but she was just as thrilled, if not more, thrilled to start her own company and do something in business. So I really latched on to that and was excited about that passion she had. So for her, it was like natural that she said she wanted to do a travel brand, right?

So we obviously like all of our businesses, right, like, who am I? I mean, now I'm, you know, I run around. I'm connected with some of the. amazing people and I'm kind of a good ideator brand positioning, put everything together. Hey, you know, and in the end, it's our individual teams that crush, right? So like in any business, it's all about execution and it's all about your team, right? So I think at base, which we do with all of our brands, we had to make sure that we got hire people that have worked in the luggage space, that have credibility, that know the business in and out, that, you know, a good product

designer that's built amazing bags for the last 20 years and then She can go in there and say, I like this, I like that. I bought this bag in Italy. Here's what I liked about the handle. And it's been a really cool process because Shea is so involved and she's got such good style. And even down to all of our product, like she created this little flap that, you know, she's always on planes. So she created this little flap that kind of sits in kind of little pocket on the back of the seat and it kind of blocks out a little space where you can put your phone. and your stuff and your books. You're not getting all the, you know, gross, you know, stuff of the guy that was on the flight before you, right?

So she's really smart. Not only does she have good style. She's super smart about the product. Practical stuff. Practical. So we just try to put the right team together that can go and operate and execute this business and let Shea do her thing. There's a lot of young people that listen to. There's a lot of aspiring brand builders here.

Awesome. And I think maybe you're the best person. to ask this, what are some pitfalls or mistakes aspiring brand builders make when they're setting out and they're starting to build that brand? Like if there was a few things that you give them to say, hey, stay away from these. These are big mistakes when you're building a brand. Like, what would those elements be? Yeah, I mean, one is maybe don't worry about trying to blow up overnight. Like, I think nowadays people just see these big influencers or, hey, I've got 13 million followers. And overnight, I make this T-shirt.

shirt and now I have a $5 million clothing company, right? The gratification is so quick. So I think to everyone out there that's going, you see these success stories. But what you don't see is like by the time they blow up, it was like there was five years before that of like, I think this is going to go out of business or this is horrible and you got to pivot the idea. So I think that's one thing, like have patience. And patience is critical because very few things pop overnight. And if something pops really quick. It's kind of scary because it could die really quick, right? So you want to build with momentum. I would say just have patience and then just know what you're great at. At Neff, I was the CEO and, you know, we had, I don't know, 150 plus employees and running this big business

and I'm like wrapped in everything. Right. I was reading like a book of like Jack Welch who's like this CEO guy and I'm like, I want to be a CEO guy one day, right? I'm like young and I'm like, I'll never have that title again in my life. Like, it's just not me. So I think it's important to figure out what you're great at. Like, I know what I'm good. I always talk about, like, in any business, you're going to sit around a table.

There'll be, you know, four or five chairs. Like, what chair are you sitting in? We're like, no one, like, I know what I do and, like, I do me. No one else is worried about trying to do this. But then I look across, whether it's a strong financial head, right? A CFO type person or a good. good operating person or a killer product developer. You just got, I think that's the biggest mistake that everyone makes is they think they can do everything. Like even me at a point, I was like,

oh, I'm CEO. And like, I'm working through these documents to see how we can import into Rotterdam. You know, I think because that's what people tell people they need to do, right? Yeah. That's my biggest thing. Know what you're great at. And as quick as you can find other people that are great at what you're not good at. And that's the only way you're going to win. Let's talk about branding on social media. How did you transition from being a freshman in college where there was no social media and you had a brand to now the importance of branding on social media? Do you like that switch? Because the brand that you built when you were building Neff was a completely different way to build brand back back. Yeah. I mean, there's probably similarities, but it's different. Way different. I like, for me,

I'm like, it's been perfect, right? Because like the one that I started when I was super young and like was the mad hustle for, you know, not making money for a lot of years. I was able to do when I was young, right, and kind of learn and kind of build a brand, in my opinion, the right way, starting out small, testing, slowly growing. You know, that was fun and I learned a lot, but now I'm like, at this stage in my life, I'm like, I just want to swing for the fences and get there quick, right? So I love the dynamic on how my life rolled out. It was like I learned a lot when it was slow and now that I might know a little,

and have access to good people, we can go fast. But from the social media side, yeah, it's so different. I love it now, and it's so important, right? It's the touch point. We were looking at one of our brands yesterday, and, you know, from our digital sales, 89% of them came from, you know, a phone, right? Like, legit, right? And it's crucially important.

I love it because you can, within a second, you know, out to your fan base you can control your story you can give them the imagery you want because I'm a big fan of retail right I love like everyone's been all caught on this like oh D2C's the golden era like the last 10 years was all this hype of like raise a ton of money figure out your algorithm and try to get customers and 95% of those businesses are all dying and even though they have been big companies they've never made a dollar right it's just a tough model paying so much to acquire customers yeah they're just paying so much to acquire

customers. It's not even, to me, it was always jaded because I was like, why I try to have some smart tech people figure out how to convince someone through like a code and a discount to buy your crap? Why not just make something that looks dope and people want to buy it again? But let me ask you this though with D to C. I think a smart strategy and tell me if you think that if you agree or disagree is launching D to C to build a fan base and build a moment and then go retail as opposed to launching in retail where you don't before you have any leverage with a customer base. I've seen both sides where people, they rely so heavily on the retailers in the beginning before they've built. Give your honest opinion. I want to know which one you think is better.

No, I want it only honest opinion. And so I believe there's a combination of boldness but I think people dive into heavy retail deals before they've actually built a loyal consumer base and then they get screwed because they're at the mercy of whatever that large retailer wants to do. Yeah, 100%. And I agree. If you look at all four brands that we launched this year, we launched all of them on D to C first. So we data captured. We took in emails. We took in phone numbers. We can control the message. It's the first time anyone's seen the brand, the product, the look and feel, right?

Because if you're on, you're on a shelf or you're on a retailer's website, you can't tell a story. It's not how your brand wants to look, right? It's just, it's tough. So I agree with you. I mean, that's all the brands that I'm launching now. It's literally launched D-2C, own that. But not rely solely on it.

Yeah. So, like, you know, every brand's different. like, you know, base, we might have been six months online, then we went to Nordstrom. Moon, a little bit different. We were like six weeks on our website and then Ulta. And then three months later, Target, right? So to me, it's great to have revenue and drive a big business on your website and create exclusivity and drops and excitement and brand building.

I think that's how I look at websites. It's like, tell your story, release unique things, keep people excited. excited if people, you know, your core fans want to get it there, they get it there. But the flex of 2,500 stores at a retailer sitting next to brands that have been around for 30 years is also just as important. What's a brand that you look at that's not your own? That you're like, oh my God, this brand just gets it. Ooh, that's a good question.

It's bad, like, because I just think of like heritage. I'm like, yo, Heinz ketchup's dope. No, that's, I mean, that Heinz ketchup is a brand. I mean, that's got to be over 100 years at this time. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's just like, for me, I'm jealous of like a Heinz ketchup bottle. That makes sense. I get that.

It's like, it's iconic. It's red. Everybody in the world knows what it is. It's in everyone's fridge. When you think ketchup, that's all you think of. Yeah. So it's like, I mean, obviously there's new brands that have come out that I think have done, you know, great jobs, you know, on marketing and positioning and done some cool stuff.

But I love those, like, brands that like, like, like Heinz ketchup. next year they're not worried about like a cool marketing campaign or a cool thing and I think those are the brands that I always like obsess on like the Coca-Cola's right I mean obviously they've been around they've done a lot of marketing to get there but just those commodity like simple like no one needs another ketchup brand any new brands yeah geez so new brands over the last maybe more digital yeah more digital like I think I think ones that stick out right now, I think that Hymns brand's done some rad stuff with how they kind of, what I like about what they did is, you know, the packaging's okay, whatever, but I think it's just smart. Like they looked at a male demographic and look at pain points of like, you know, you're the losing your hair or you're not good in bed or whatever it is.

Like those are real, like problems. and like if someone buys that once and it actually works somehow, they're freaking buying it for the next 50 years, right? And I think how they used Snoop was like easy, it was like the cartoon head, it was simple and they did a good, you know, when people think TV's dead, it's kind of like they buck the trend and got rid of digital. But then, you know, digital brands, I mean, I don't know,

it's easy for me to go to like skims, right? But then it's like Kim Kardashian is just a crusher, right? Or like what Kylie's done with Kylie Cosmetics. So I think that's what I love about business. There's not one way to build it. I look at like Neff that was like worst product ever the first three years, like legit. And we built it on Circegate, snow peeps in personalities and being relevant, right? So like that was that model.

And then like I was lucky, you know, from a heavy key investor role at Sunbumb was rad to be a part of that journey and go, okay, it's not about the hype. It's not about marketing. It's not about digital assets. It's about efficacy because moms want to know that if they're going to put this sunscreen on their kids, that it works. Right. And it's got a good smell, which is the second most important thing is sunscreen. And then the packaging looks dope. So, you know, I don't know.

There's so many good brands out there, to be honest. I see a ton all the time. So say someone in our audience is going to launch a brand tomorrow. Where would you tell them to start? like what should they pick their colors, their tones, their smell? Like what are you telling them to sort of look at if they're going to launch a brand tomorrow? Yeah. So if you're an influencer, like what are you known for?

Right? Like what's the one thing? Like, and a lot of them can be known for a handful of things, but what is the most off? Like Kylie worked because it was Kylie and then it was her like people like her lips and she's good. Right. So she was already known for kind of that. vibe to build color on it, right? If she would have done clothing, it wouldn't have worked. So I think it's important to know, like, who are you at your core, right? Like, if you're all

about fitness and being active, right, like, that would trigger you a place to go. If you're about being funny, like, because I've seen it, we had, I started a merch company and, you know, we do Liza Koshi, Lily Singh, sisters for James Charles, a ton of other people. And I've seen, right, like everyone has their own different lane, right? So I think it's important to pick your lane, know your lane, and how can you be smart about it, right? And not so the obvious. Like merch is obvious for everyone,

but it's like it doesn't translate. Like we've seen people that are like funny on Instagram and have 35 million followers and get 2 million views and, you know, 14,000 comments and they sell like 9 T-shirts a month. because makes sense. What their audience is there for. Yeah, it's like no one's, no one's going there. Like, you're there for entertainment.

You're there for entertainment. Like, no one cares how you dress. No one cares about your style. Such a good point. So don't try to sell me a t-shirt. So if you're funny, I don't know, make some freaking funny mugs. It's like me sitting in this seat when I'm vetting talent to figure out, like, which shows produce. It's a lot of the time it's actually not about the big fall.

Like, say there's, I'll use an easy example, like a fashion blogger. Yeah. It's on the street to take a bunch of, their audience is there because they want to see how to put together outfits. clothing trends or doesn't necessarily translate to, hey, I want to listen to you on a mic for an hour every single week, talk about whatever. People get confused now about macro numbers on social and conversion. No, someone who's done such a good job, you'll have to check her out, is Birds of Papaya. She just joined the network and she's, her niche is talking about body image issues. She just lays it out on the line. And her translation is just wild. This has been like the decade of like perfectionism.

Yeah. And she's done the exact opposite. And her audience is just like thousands of comments, just gnarly engagement. And I don't even think she has a million followers. She has like... In a different way than probably both of you. I said, I'm like, what will this show look like in five to ten years or what will the brand look like in five years? And if it's just surface and I don't care how many...

I have to build a show that people actually want to listen to. Yes. A book, podcast, or resource that you would recommend to our audience that has to do with branding. Ooh, what's my favorite one there? I know my favorite books is the tipping point. If you've ever read that, yeah. From a branding standpoint, it's so funny, like, because I don't have, like, one book that I don't think sticks out on branding.

Because to me, branding is something, it's kind of like focus groups. Your content marketing to write your own book. Yeah. But it's kind of that vibe on, what's the Pixar, dude? I know there, what's that book? It's red. Yeah. Finding creativity.

Yeah. Is that what it is? It's red with a... That's a cool book. Yeah. That deals with branding and how they kind of set up Pixar. But like for me, it's funny. It's, it's...

That was a crazy story, too. I know. It was wild. You were going to say if branding is innate. You have like a guide in you. Yeah, it's kind of like focus groups. Everyone's like, whoa, what did, you know, did... So when you launched this business, like, who did you talk to you?

And did you have a bunch of focus groups? And like, did you get a lot of feedback from people to make sure that, like, you nailed this? And I'm always like, no. Gary V says fuck data. Exactly. Oh, creativity, ink. That's the one. Yes, creativity ink.

You use your intuition. Yes, I think, but I also, like, get inspiration everywhere. Like, my kids might have, like, a coloring book out and, like, the color palettes there. How they're, like, mixing watercolors trying to paint this, like, weird little book they got for Christmas. It's, like, I geek out on that stuff or, like, the Mexican restaurant and the fonts or, like, the cool, like, you know, sculpture in the corner and like the weird, like, colorways. Like, so for me, I kind of get branding inspiration, not necessarily from, because sometimes it's like business books are cool and I'm kind of whatever, I'll read a little bit of them. But then, like, when I talk to, like,

my brothers or I talk to, like, other friends that are like, you know, out there trying to build a business, it's so boilerplate. It's like, you know, oh, you're going to have so many pitfalls. just keep going and it's like you know and then you have like people that are i think like the common keep going for 70 years and like do someone needs to tell that maybe don't keep going it's like don't keep coping refocus right and do something different but i i think what's great about life is especially now like everyone should feel they could literally wake up tomorrow and accomplish anything like i am no more special unique better than anyone i've been very fortunate and lucky to have build the brands, been around great people to kind of accomplish what I've accomplished.

And I'm maybe in a fortunate situation because of what I've been able to do and the great people that have been around me. I know have access to do other things. But like the odds of me being, you know, the guy that started a youth culture brand that literally, you know, for good four or five years, you couldn't leave your house without seeing Neff somewhere or a T-shirt. Like, if you knew me in high school, you'd be like, okay, cool, but like you wouldn't think I would be that guy. But it was just kind of like, I just felt it and went for it. So I think everyone, world's different. You can do stuff quick.

You can find people. You can fail or go down a path and then meet someone else that changes that bad idea into a good idea. So it's like, but you want to be smart. You know? I think your advice is amazing for millennials. There's a lot of young people that are going to get value from this. Yeah.

I mean, I do think you need to write a book or do a podcast or do something. on branding you deal you have to you're like really sick i got to sell a couple more companies get some more credibility write a book do the cover in bright orange i like that he's wearing right orange bright orange with gold stripes yeah yeah yeah where can everyone find you and your businesses on instagram well i guess i'm sean neff which kirsten over there made me get back on instagram because i didn't post for like four years and then now i was starting to do all these brands and then i was You have to have Forbes call me the brand whisperers that kind of took on his little thing. So I'm like, all right, maybe I'll post here and there.

So I'm not good at that. But more importantly, the brands is, yeah, they're like Florence by Mills on Insta, base, pattern, moon. Yeah, all on Insta. Guys, check him out. He is the Brand Whisper. That's your book name, The Brand Whisper, Bright Orange and Gold. I like that.

John, thanks for coming on, brother. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. Have a good one. Guys, wait, don't go. Make sure you've rated and reviewed the Skinny Confidential, him and her show on iTunes, because every week we do a giveaway. This week we're giving away the cutest new TSC pops bucket. It's like three hearts all stuck together and says TSC. It's on my phone right now. You will love it. All you have to do to win is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at the Skinny Confidential.

And someone from the team will drop into a bunch of your inboxes and send you this new hot. cute pop socket. As always, thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next time. This episode is brought to by Skillshare. So for those of you that do not know what Skillshare is. Skillshare is an online learning community that offers membership with meaning with thousands of classes online for people like you and me. Skillshare is a proud sponsor of the Skinny Confidential. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash TSC and get two free months of premium membership. That's two whole months of unlimited access to thousands of classes for free. Get started and joined today by heading to Skillshare.com slash TSC. That's

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