The Bossticks - The Dissenters, Debra Messing & Mandana Dayani On Activism, Voting, & How To Constantly Educate Ourselves To Be Better

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

#272: On this episode we are joined by The Dissenters, Debra Messing and Mandana Dayani. Debra Messing is an actress, activists, mom, and founding member of "I Am A Voter" and Mandana Dayani is the creator and co-founder of "I Am A Voter", an entrepreneur, activist, lawyer, public speaker and media personality. On this episode we sit down to discuss activism and how to get involved, voting and the importance to of exercising this right, and  how we can constantly educate ourselves to be better.  To listen to The Dissenters Podcast click HERE To learn more about I Am A Voter click HERE To connect with Debra Messing click HERE To connect with Mandana Dayani click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by GOMACRO Enter promo code SKINNY for 30% of your order at check out. We love these all natural, plant based, and organic bars. We keep them in our bags on the go and love that they are a completely natural and farm produced bar.  This episode is brought to you by THRIVE MARKET. We use Thrive for our online grocery delivery on a weekly basis and we also now get our wine at Thrive! They provide the highest quality products and ingredients delivered straight to our door with unbeatable prices.  Be sure to grab our deal by going to to https://thrivemarket.com/skinny to select your preferred memberships package and start saving today! This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that's reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you're ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your 'Lifelong-Health-401k'. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by Ritual. You guys know I'm a human guinea pig and I'm still here taking ritual and loving it. It's filled with iron, vitamin E, magnesium, folate, and omega-3. Kind of everything. It's made in the USA without synthetic fillers. 95% of women do not get the vitamins and minerals they need on a daily basis, so Ritual created a smarter vitamin with the nine essential ingredients women lack most.

Go to ritual.com slash skinny today. to choose clean ingredients backed by science. Sign up now at ritual.com slash skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic

are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. This idea that dissent is just saying something is not okay or saying, wants, you know, the world should be better or I'm, I'm creating space for improvement. And I think today and, you know, you see everything that's happening. Descenting is being an ally. It's, it's listening. It's allowing, you know, it's learning, admitting that you may not know everything and being open to

learning more, reading the article, reposting, you know, it's not just like reposting it, but learning about it and growing through it. Welcome back, everybody. How are we doing? Getting through the week. World is trying to fall apart on us and we're doing our part to try. and hold it together. I think we are. I think we're going to get there. We're trying. For those of you that are new to the show, welcome back.

Or actually, for those of you that are new to the show, welcome here. For those who are not new to the show, welcome back. My name is Michael Bostic. I'm a serial entrepreneur and brand builder. Most recently, the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And across from me, the creator of the Skinny Confidential, my wife, looking, looking good, got your hair did today, got your, looking, where are you going right now? What are you up to?

Don't pop a boner. Hey guys, what's up? I'm Lauren, like Michael said, the creator of the Skinny Confidential. Today we have a fire episode. That we do indeed. We have the dissenters on the show. And for those of you that do not know who the dissenters are, it is Mondana Dianni and Deborah Messing of the recently, wildly popular, recently launched and crushing it podcast, The Dissenters. And they're on Dear Media. They are on Dear Media. It's a really dynamic show. So, you know, today we wanted to jump in and just have a conversation about all. all things activism, voting. I think it's a very timely episode. Together, these two have really spearheaded the I am a voter platform and movement, getting young people and all people to vote. Vote more.

Really, guys, if I haven't said it before, it's very important to exercise your right to vote. I've been vocal about that before. So has Lauren. And so on this episode, we're diving into a lot of things, activism, voting, dissenters, and really just getting into all things with them. So on my Instagram stories, I also shared I am a voter. It's this amazing Instagram feed where you can. can actually click the link in bio and just register to vote. So know that. We talk about it throughout

this episode. Like Michael said, it is very, very important, especially what's going on to vote. With that, Deborah Messing, Mandana Diani, welcome to the show. The dissenters, everybody. Here we go. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Madonna, I feel like Raina has guarded this relationship for so long. I can't believe we haven't had a chance to do it. I'm going to have to give her some shit. I text her. I'm like, you know, I'm finally getting to talk to and dawn after all this time. I'll be able to working together. And I see you guys in the office all the time in the voter meetings. And I was like, what the hell is going on here? I, I pretend like I work

there. So when I schedule meetings now, since I do, I'm a voter and I kind of quit my job, I literally list your office as my address for work. So I pretend like I work there. This is, this is being it at least a little bit more real. Yeah, I know the people that Raina really cares about. She's always careful to introduce me to, which I wonder what that says about me. Yeah, what does that say about you? I don't know. I'm going to have to talk to her about it. But anyways, thank you all for doing this. Deborah, nice to meet you. Nice to see you. Great to meet you. Great to see you. A lot going on in the world. It's doing it's damnedest to fall apart on us while we're all at home. But holding it together, how have you guys been doing with everything going on in the quarantine? Everything going on in the world. How are you guys holding up? Oh, Lord. I mean, the quarantine, I'm in New York City. So it was very scary when it first hit. I have.

have since learned how to play the ukulele and piano and taking singing lessons. Oh, you're making us all look back. Oh, my God. I have done none of those things. I bought a giant bouncy house that I moved all of our living room furniture and put a bouncy house and bought every indoor, outdoor toy available on Target and just put it all over so that our kids can be entertained. She wins the mom the mom award.

We got a four-month-old. She's in the other room right now. I'm hoping she's going to hold tight and not wake up during this thing. But if she does, congratulations. Guys, how's that going? It's going. It's been interesting in quarantine, but we're making the best of it. And I feel like to have my husband be able to have a paternity leave is pretty lucky.

So there's pros of it. Amazing. Are your families here? No. San Diego. But before this happened, I went right back to work after two weeks. And so in a way, I'm kind of glad. I don't say glad. That's the wrong way. But it's been nice to get extra time because I was right back at work right after Lauren gave birth. And it's giving me a lot of time now to spend with the baby over these last four months. It's been nice. Oh, my God. So I want to

just give the audience some context. How did you guys meet? How did you get involved with each other? give us some background. Well, Mondana and I met like 15 years ago, was it? A very long time ago. A very long time ago, like for five minutes in passing. And then cut to a couple of years ago. And we were both in Nantucket. We were both invited to a friend's home.

And that's when we fell in love for real. And this is like a day into us being in Nantucket. And Deborah, I'm sitting with my husband. husband and our daughter and Deborah walks out and she's like, I can't believe that you didn't tell me we had met, like 10 years ago, whenever it was. And I like didn't want to be the person that goes up to the famous person and is like, hey, remember when we met like 11 years ago at the mall? So I just didn't want to say anything. And then she was like, I can't believe I didn't know that we knew each other. And then I don't know. We just were like, we had this ongoing joke about how we

were like the only Jews in Nantucket and how funny it was. Because we were. We were the only Jews. funny like trying to figure out in Antucket because everyone wears like pastel colors with like lobsters and whales and we were in all black. And then I think we really started to realize just like how much similar work we were doing in our own lives and how many people we knew and come in. And then we spent like the whole week on this island together. And we left and Debra and I just started sending each other articles of all these people that were doing really cool things because we were also at the same time working on IMA. a voter together. And then I would say a year, like exactly a year, almost exactly a year ago, we were together. And we started talking about these, these heroes and these people.

And like, it kind of started as like, hey, what if we had a podcast so we could meet these people? No, I think we don't. I think the way you said it was, you know, if we do a podcast, we can force these people to talk to us. and be our friends and get their phone numbers. They would actually have to be in a room with us for an hour and answer all of our questions. And so that's how it began. When you're a podcast host, you're the host of the party.

Totally. You just kind of cracked our secret. Like we always knew like, hey, we're not going to be able to just get to anybody. But if I could say, hey, come on this platform. Right where I want you. I can ask you anything. That's right. The irony is like our, like the people that we think are like the coolest people

and like the biggest celebrities to us are these like Nobel Prize nominees and these people that are doing these incredible things. So for us it's like we fully fangirl, like hyperventilate like we're dying to speak to them. We are super nerds. And so we do excessive amounts of research. And we spent like a year basically putting together

like our wish list of who we wanted to like honor as a dissenter and thought a lot about what this concept of dissenting means and why it's so important. And it's important to, of us, I think, as activists, but also as moms and how we raise our kids. And we really wanted to kind of tell that story and show, I mean, the tagline is, you know, there are heroes everywhere, discover them, become one. And we, I mean, that really is what we wanted to build was just showing people that, like, there's always more you can do. There's always more that you can learn.

There's, there's so many incredible communities that you can be a part of. And also to dispel, also to dispel the idea that you have to be, you know, a certain level of education, or you have to have a certain number of followers or, you know, in order to be able to enact change that actually through all of this, we, you know, we met people, extraordinary people who were still students at Harvard and, you know, just decided one day, you know what, that's not cool. So, all right, I guess I'm going to try and change it. And then they did. How can someone be a hero in this climate today. Like what do you see happening? I agree with you that it doesn't matter how many followers you have. It can be anyone. What are some tools that people can use that want to help in the world's

climate like today? They can act today right now. Hold up. We are going to talk about a mother-daughter owned business. Okay. It's called go macro. We've talked about this on the Skidding Confidential multiple times. These are the bars that I carry in my purse so my husband doesn't get hypoglycemic. Okay. If you have a husband like me that gets grumpy when they're hungry, these bars are for you. They're packed with 100% plant-based ingredients. So you know that they're in a fuel your body in mind. They're not just some random bar that's full of all these weird ingredients. Macro bars are made from simple, high-quality ingredients. They're certified organic, vegan, gluten-free, kosher, non-GMO, clean, raw, and soy-free. You know Michael and I do our research when it comes to vetting partnerships for the show.

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about in our first podcast with Glennon Doyle, who is like the mega hero for both of us, right? She's amazing. I'm obsessed. She says, you know, one of the things that she said, which is so true is like activism is not something that you let other people do. Activism happens at the bus stop on the phone with your mother. It happens in your classroom. It happens at the dinner table.

Activism is, and that's why the name like dissenters was so important to us because obviously Ruth Bader Ginsburg is our ultimate hero. but this idea that dissent is just saying something is not okay or saying, I want, you know, the world should be better or I'm creating space for improvement. And I think today and you, you know, you see everything that's happening. Descenting is being an ally. It's, it's listening. It's allowing, you know, it's learning, admitting that you may not know everything and being open to learning more, reading the article, reposting, you know, it's not just like reposting it, but learning about it and growing through it. You know, we, Deborah and I, learned so much through this process. I mean, and, and we are not afraid to ask what people think are dumb questions because they're not dumb questions. You know, it's, it's just, it's like, I think being supportive and learning and growing is so critical. Obviously, voting is the most critical version of dissent. Yes. I think for all of us, I think there's so many things you do, but you need to vote on those issues that you care about, whatever they are, whatever side you land on,

because those are the policies that ultimately affect your life and the country that you live in. I mean, for me, I would say those are by far the most important ways that people can feel like they're active. So there's so much that we can unpack here, but I want to take a step back for a second for our audience that's just learning about the dissenters and the platform and the new podcast. Deborah, I'm sure many of our listeners are familiar with your work as an actress, but how did you both fall into activism and how did you both become so passionate about it? I've thought a lot about this. And what I landed on was I grew up in Rhode Island in the rural suburbs. My parents were Brooklyn born and raised, and we moved into a community that had no Jewish people. And I remember being a child and waking up on Halloween, and there was a swastika painted on my grandfather's car.

And I remember, you know, in second grade, a kid saying, Kike get to the back of the line and me having to say what does that word mean? And so at a very young age, I felt like an other. And I felt shame and I felt fear and I felt misunderstood. And it just, I think it started there sort of wanting the world to be fair and for people to be kind to to each other regardless of what they look like or what they believed in. And then my brother, when I was in high school, he was a sophomore at college. He decided to run for state representative, which was crazy. He wasn't even 20. And so I went door to door with him. I knocked on doors with him. And I remember the election night, and he lost by 500 votes to a 41-year-old incumbent who had

gone to Harvard Law School. I think just, just... Just seeing people at a young age who wanted to make the world better in some way just sort of got into my blood. And then I think it's no, I think ultimately Will and Grace is my whole life was sort of moving towards Will and Grace, which really became a platform for, you know, helping change hearts and minds ultimately. Well, and then you did so much work in activism and then. And I think when she started working with PSI and went to Africa and really started doing all this work to bring awareness to AIDS. And I think from there you just kept going and going. Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, I knew nothing.

And I was asked to be a global ambassador for youth AIDS. And I just said, you know, if I could be of service, use me. And they were like, all right, we're going to Zimbabwe. for 12 days. I was like, oh, oh, okay. And it was, you know, I was thrown into it. And, you know, 11 years later, you know, and many, many, many trips later, you know, being able to see the work on the ground and to see how it affects people and then being able to go to the hill and to bear witness, you know, to be able to say, I saw this with my eyes and this is changing lives and saving lives. And and to be able to, for example, get $100 million for Zimbabwe for treatment and prevention from our government,

you know, it felt really, really good to be able to use my platform for good. You know, this country obviously has its issues, as does every other country. But, you know, one thing that I've been very vocal about in Lauren has, too, is like the left, right, middle, wherever you lean, the importance of exercising your right to vote. And I want to talk about I am voter because there's a lot of young people that listen to this show. And for me, like, you know, individually when Lauren and I are talking to people in our life, like we cannot stress the importance enough of voting. And I want to talk about how I am voter came about and talk about the mission behind it. Because I think there's a lot of young people that just need to understand how

important it is to vote. We're not pushing an agenda left, right, but whatever they, however they want to vote. But they have to go vote. If anybody wants to enact change in any kind of positive way, That really is as an American. That is the first start. That's the first step, in my opinion. A thousand percent. A thousand percent. I came to this country as a religious refugee.

And, you know, we fled not great conditions and came to America. And so I think I grew up very aware that America saved my life. And this is kind of the irony of what's projected sometimes in the media is like immigrants are often the most patriotic people because we're so grateful to be here. We know how shitty our lives could have been somewhere else. And I think I was always raised with this idea of like the difference between me and everyone else who didn't get to leave was mostly luck. And I felt so lucky to be here. I felt so lucky that I could do whatever I wanted with my life and be safe. And so I felt like this I was, I was felt so indebted to America. And I was kind of raised with this, this sense of guilt and obligation to give back. And I started giving back, I think, when I was in fourth grade. I mean, it was really just something that was a really big part of me. And, and I was. this energy every day of just like, I'm so lucky. I want to help everyone that I can. And then I went to law school, you know, we lived like the full American dream. My brother became a surgeon. I became a

lawyer. We literally came to America with not a dollar. None of us spoke English. And after a while, I worked as a talent agent and then I ran a fashion and media entertainment company. And then I worked in tech. And all of this, you know, I was really engaged in politics, but as like a passion project. And I think over the last like two and a half years ago, really seeing this divide in our country really broke my heart because I do believe America is good. I believe people love this country and I believe people are way more united than what is projected in the news and the media. But we also experience this against a backdrop of feeling like nothing is getting done. You know, 90% of our country wants background checks. Why is that not happening? And you're like, what is happening? Like I just remember sitting there every day and being like, what is happening? And, you know, I started taking meetings with different senators and congressmen because I was sitting on a bunch of different boards and doing things. And I was like, I should just give back. I should figure out like, how can I help these people as like a marketing person? And everything just kept coming back to, well, if this is the change that you want, then people have to vote on it.

Oh, if this is the change that you want, well, then people have to vote on it. And I didn't really know enough about that to understand it. And so I just kept looking at the research and I kept looking at the data. And it was like when you actually look at the numbers and the support, for the issues that all of your listeners care about, regardless of where they fall, the reason they don't feel represented is is because they're not voting on those issues.

The thing I never understood, I always thought that like when someone is your congressman, they represent everyone in their city. They don't. They represent their voters. They represent the people that voted in their city. So when you're not voting, they're not representing you.

They don't know what your opinion is. They don't know where you stand. And their re-election is not contingent on you because you're not voting anyway. And you're in this classification called non-voters. And politicians don't care what non-voters think because they're not voting. All they care about is winning their seat again. And that was just this huge, like, light that went on for me.

And then I started looking at the numbers. And I was like, okay, wait. In 2018, 31% of the youth voted, which is the crazy low number. And then I was like, that is the highest turnout amongst youth in a quarter of a century. I'm like, how is this possible? I didn't even know any of this as a person. And so I'm a voter really came about by just the more I saw all of this. And I was like, there has to be a campaign that explains this to young voters without talking down at them, without shaming them, without making them feel like the nagging mom that's like, you need to vote.

It was like explaining it to them, giving them the research, giving them the facts without any of the partisan stuff. You know the politics. You know where you stand on issues. You're smart enough to research them, but really explaining, like, the importance of your vote. And so I sent an email to, like, 20 of the most incredible women I've ever worked with, including Deborah. And we all sat in a room and really started building this campaign that was, you know, the goals were that we would always maintain a very positive, very empowering perspective, that it would remain completely nonpartisan, that we would, we would always focus on giving people the tools and the information to make their own decisions. And the point of the identity behind I'm a voter was that it is something aspirational.

It's a declaration. It's a statement. It creates accountability. Like when you say it, you need to vote. But also it's this halo. Being a voter something you should be proud of. It's like being, you know, I remember it's all kind of, we did this amazing video with the Warriors basketball team. And just watching each guy, you know, each player went up. And he said, I'm a father, I'm a vegan, I'm a basketball player, I'm a voter. And they all kind of went down this list of who they are. And it should be one of those things that you're so proud of. And really the work we've been doing is continuing to work on registration, but it's a lot of just changing culture. Wait, hello.

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Love Thrive. Check them out, guys. Have that date with almond butter. Thank me later. All right, let's get back into the show. Yeah, I think also like, you know, I read a lot of history and, you know, the founding of this country. In the beginning, you better believe, like, if you had the right to boat, it was such a novel thing.

everybody was running out to vote. And I think we've lost a little bit. And maybe our, our generation somewhat responsible for this is that I don't think people realize how lucky they are to be able to go and exercise that freedom and that right. You know, as an immigrant yourself, coming from other countries, people in other places don't necessarily get that right. They don't get the opportunity to enact change by going out and just voting. And so I think it's also like teaching people and not talking down, but teaching people like how fortunate they are and educating around how lucky they are to be able to exercise that freedom. I mean, Debra and I would always talk about this. It was, you know, if you're going to march for, you know, march for our lives or women's rights or any of the things, those are so impactful. But they will not make a difference if you don't vote on those issues. They will not create the change that you actually want if you're not at the polls. If every person that we see marching in our country registered and voted, we'd have a very different.

country. It would be a game changer. It would be a game changer. And it's really about, you know, harnessing that passion, that passion to, to have a voice, to have that voice be heard and say, okay, you're doing it on the streets. Now one day, every four years, you know, you get to go in and do it, at least for the presidential election. And, you know, we're hoping that it will be, the same as, you know, the pride you say when you say, I'm an American, you know, that it's, it's the same thing to say, I'm a voter, that they, they, they're synonymous. Yeah, one thing that I always used to bug me is when people would say, like, the young, the youth is so apathetic. They don't care about anything but their cell phones. But that's just,

like, not true. When you look at the purchasing decisions of, of young people in America, like, they care about the brands. They care if they give back. They care about their hiring practices. Like young Americans are so informed and they genuinely care about good. They care about the environment. They care about each other. They're in all these communities online and offline. I really just think that it's it's empowering them and informing them to your point, Michael, about the vote and how critical that is in that in that formula of all the other things that they care about because it is going to make the biggest difference. in their lives ultimately.

And the young generation, I mean, the young voters are going to be the largest generation America's ever have. They're going to outgrow the baby boomers. And so we're like, you could determine America forever if you actually voted,

which is crazy. Speaking of our generation, Deborah, you said something earlier. You said you knew nothing when it came to activism. I think with everything that's going on in the black community right now, there's a lot of millennials or Gen Z or Gen.

Do they just feel like they don't know where to start because they haven't done, they feel like they know nothing. So what would, what would you tell them, besides voting, where would you tell them to start? You know, I, I feel like I'm a perpetual student. And I think that if, if you look at yourself as a student, as someone, you admit, okay, this I don't know anything about. So I'm going to look to teachers and experts. And there are so many. resources. There are so many books out there that can explain, you know, how we got to where we are. And there are so many movies and so many organizations that you can support in any way that feels comfortable to you. You know, what I've learned is that it's our responsibility to do that,

to do the homework and to do the self-educating. It's no one else's responsibility to teach us. But there are so many sources out there. And I, you know, I, the thing that is so beautiful about the dissenters is that through the people that we've met, it's like, I feel like we've, we've sort of found our people. You know, people, other people who are, are just as excited and passionate and determined. And we didn't know anything, you know? And I think as long as you're humble, you know, I mean, we literally sat there and we were like, explain this term. We don't know what this term means. Yeah. I remember there is this incredible, yeah, who we spoke with. He is the first trans NCAA Division I athlete and his story about being a swimmer and, you know, and what it was like to for that whole, his whole life experience was so amazing. But, you know, half of. through the conversation, I was like, you know, but Deborah and I both were like, can we just

stop because we, we realize, like, we don't even know how to properly use pronouns. Can you explain this to us? How do you, you know, Deborah explained like a real life situation she was in and she was like, how do you ask this question without? And, and his response was, thank you so much for asking because a lot of the times people are so afraid to ask that they don't know and then they don't want to offend people, but they continue to not know and feel like more afraid than they should feel. But by asking, you're giving someone the opportunity to share their experience and share their information. And then you can go on and share that information with others. And we realize like it, it is a little bit scary sometimes to admit you don't know something. But asking is just like the

first step to learning. And you'll find like people are thrilled to share the information. I think that's what differentiates our podcast is that, you know, we, We don't pretend to be experts. We don't pretend to know anything. We are just Uber fans. And, you know, so we're just celebrating and honoring these people and what they've done. And it's just like, okay, teach us what you've learned. You know, you have come up against obstacles.

You have come up against rejection and failure. What happened that made you decide, I'm going to keep going to. going. And really, ultimately, it's about inspiring and empowering people. Hot little break to talk about ritual more than ever in quarantine, especially right now. It's important to be taking our vitamins. Now, for me, I'm postpartum and I notice that my hair is a little lacklester. My nails are a little lackluster. I'm just not getting all the nutrients that I should be getting. So to have ritual on hand and know that they're in great. ingredients are legit is very helpful. So their whole mission is to reinvent the vitamin industry. And I think

they've done a fabulous job. They left out any mystery ingredients. There's no synthetic fillers. There's no shady ass, weird shit that you don't know how to pronounce. Okay. This is for the obsessive label reader, someone who likes to know what's going in their body. They use vegan certified non-GMO gluten-free and allergen-free ingredients. I just feel like when you go on their website. You can see everything streamlined in front of you. It's so laid out. You can tell how well researched the vitamin is. It's like I don't have time to be dissecting every little thing in my vitamin. So to know someone has done it for me makes me feel great. I used to like to take this first thing when I woke up, but I found after giving birth that what I like to do is I like to take it

after eating fruit. This may sound weird, but it works for me. Michael takes his at night. Anytime works. So like I said, I take mine after fruit. I take two. It tastes like peppermint. They also have a prenatal, which I was on while I was pregnant with Zaza. The one specifically that I take is the essential for women, and it's shown to increase vitamin D levels and also increase omega-3DHA. So daily changes can lead to big results.

So start small today. Ritual is offering all TSC, him and her listeners, 10% off your first three months. Try it out. Satisfaction guaranteed. go to ritual.com slash skinny to start your ritual today. That's 10% off during your first three months at ritual.com slash skinny. Okay, let's get back to the show. Yeah, you know, one thing that keeps Lauren and I so excited about the podcasters have been in it for a little while and now is being able to start normalizing a lot of conversations and just like having open conversations, making people

feel included in an extension of that. Like why I'm so happy about the directions your media is moving in is we have so many different voices coming on this platform and sharing all these perspectives. I think stuff like this is really powerful because a lot of people, it's like, I believe the high majority of people in this world have good intentions, but they don't want to be singled out. They don't want to look bad. They don't want to be insensitive. They don't want to feel stupid. And so a lot of times they're either quiet or they're not including themselves in these

conversations because they don't want to make a misstep. And so if these types of conversations can normalize some of that and we can step back and say, hey, you know, it's okay to fuck up and make a mistake and say something wrong as long as your intentions in the right place and we can all work together to educate ourselves. I was like that that's the point. And I think for so long, like a lot of these conversations have been so taboo and people have felt scared and uncomfortable and unable to have them. And so can I just say that the only regrets I have in my life are the things I didn't do because I was afraid. Like I literally didn't know anything about voting when I wanted to start. I'm a voter. Like I was literally Googling like voting laws in every state. I still don't know enough about voting. And I think that what you. What we learned over and over in our conversations was how much all of these people learned as they moved along. Because very few people begin anything at a point where they feel like they know everything about the topic. Like if everyone felt like they knew everything about every legislative agenda before they ran for office, they would never run for office.

I mean, Shannon Watts, who we speak to, who's like our hero, started, you know, moms demand action in every town, the largest grassroots organization in America. She was a stay-at-home mom of five when she started it. She had 60 friends on Facebook or something. And she said, I knew nothing. I learned as I went. I had great teachers. I asked questions. She's like, if I had waited until I learned everything or I felt like I knew everything

I should know about this issue, I still today would not have started. You know, it's, it's, and so I think the message consistently is like just jump in, you know, commit to learning along the way. And knowing that this idea of doing anything, is already not failing. Like doing nothing is the failure, right? It's even the smallest act of, of dissent or compassion is already a step forward, you know?

How do you handle the naysayers and the negativity that comes along with that? As a digital creator, I feel like whenever I post anything, I am constantly told that this is wrong, that I'm doing this wrong, that I'm doing that wrong. And I think what I've tried to do is just, only respond if it's constructive. But like, is there any, is there any tips that you could give the audience for putting themselves out there and for getting that negative feedback? Well, Debra,

who's been attacked by President Trump multiple times? How did you handle that? That's a good one to start with. Yeah, that, that, that's a good example. Deborah, you have a PhD in this subject, I feel like. I know, I know. It's so funny, too, because I was never on social media. It wasn't until I was on a TV show and NBC was like, we need you to have a presence so that you can tell them, okay, Thursday, we're going to be on at 9 o'clock. So literally that was all it was about. And then all of a sudden I became very, very, very vocal. Yes, when Trump called me out on Twitter, it was very, very surreal. It happened right in the middle of, you know, the crisis on the border, children in cages being separated from their parents. And he, I remember so vividly, it was like a

weekend and he, he did this post. And of course, he's got 80 million followers. So I got tons and tons and tons of things. And I just, I just thought it was ridiculous because I'm like, there's so many other things that are much more important going on in the world than, than me. Like, you know, don't be, don't be using your platform to, like, come after me. You have, do something else. So I just thought, I just, I just thought it was surreal. I didn't, ultimately I didn't let it get to me, but I would be lying if I didn't say when I first, first put my neck out there and started giving my opinions and people, you know, came back hard. That was, that was a shock and it threw me a little bit.

And like you, I try to respond constructively. I always am just trying to share information from people who are smarter than me. Like that's the way I usually do it. Back to what Michael said about intention, though. Your intention's in the right place. No one's going to be 100% perfect online at all times. We're human. But you have to be human to get these conversations started.

Everyone's going to misstep. But also, Lauren, there's people you're going to piss off. And that means you're doing something good. Right. There's some people you should piss off. And I think that it's understanding the difference. And I think there are some people that are just out to hurt and to cause division. And if you're pissing them off, then that's okay.

And if you're pissing someone off because you did something incorrect, it's being able to learn from that experience and admit like, hey, you know what? I shouldn't have said that. You know, and I'll move forward. But I mean, I think that as an influencer or as anyone with a person, or as anyone with a platform, like being authentically yourself is part of the responsibility you have for the content that you're creating because people are there for you, right? I mean, there's so many creators. They're there because they find something incredibly fascinating or exciting about you and giving them the opportunity to actually know all of you is, is like honest and it's real and it's true.

And even if they don't agree with you, if they can continue to love and learn from you, then that is a real community, right? I mean, if communities and villages forever were just people, pretending to be perfect versions of someone that they think everyone would like, then that would just never be an actual community of people. Yeah, I think those are the people that get in the most trouble, right? Because they got this curated, this curated version of themselves. That's not authentic. I know that word authentic's been thrown around. But what happens is like, if you keep doing this and you keep talking on a mic or you keep sharing content or you should keep writing, like over time, like you're not going to be able to keep that facade up. And then what happens is it breaks down. People are going to be much more critical on you. For me, and Lauren, I think we'd rather just throw it all out there and be like, this is who we're going to make some misups. We fuck it up. But at least you know where we stand. You know where our intention is. Doesn't mean we're going to be perfect. A lot of the time we're not. We're going to say, a lot of stupid shit we do. But at least people know. I mean, trust me. Same, by the way. But I weirdly get the most sad when I piss off my family, which is all the time, you know, and that's what's hard is like I grew up in a very religious, conservative family. And so sometimes I'll say things. And then my mom, I'm like, Mom, I'm so sorry. And for weirdly, that's the

hardest part for me. But the, the trolls or the people that just want to be angry, I just, I think it's white noise for both of us. As long as you're able and willing to apologize when you make a misstep, then you're good. You know, we're human. As you said, Lauren, you know, we're human. We make mistakes. We hurt people unintentionally.

And as long as we are quick to apologize and say, I will do better, then I feel like, then everyone should be able to give each other some grace. When it comes to the black community and everything that's going on, how do you guys think as a country that we can do better? What are some small things that we can be doing at home? I don't know if you've seen Campaign Zero. That just launched. And I think their website, hold on, let me just look at it because it really is one of the best. We, Debra and I were actually talking about this this morning. It's joinCampaign0.org. And they have provided really, really, really great tools for everybody.

Like tools for how you can learn, tools for how to be an ally, tools for how to participate, tools for where to donate. And the voices that have come together to build that, I think, are incredible people who we both really, really trust.

So for us, I would say that's like one really great place to start from like the actual leaders of the movement. And, you know, there are always opportunities for you to volunteer and, and be involved, even on a very small scale, you know, you can do texting, you know, from your

couch, you know, you can say, okay, I'm comfortable doing, you know, a certain number of text in order to encourage people to register. Like, maybe that is your thing. You're like, you know, I'm going to support the community by supporting the voting initiative. And I'm going to do it from my couch because I'm not the kind of person who could go out in front of people. I'm shy. I'm uncomfortable. You know, there's something for everybody. You said it's called really quick. You said it's called campaign what? It's called campaign zero, but the website is join campaign zero. And then a really quick, just like a yes or no question for everyone out there. Can you register to vote through I am voter too? Yes. I would say the easiest thing to do is text the word

voter to 26797 and that will let you find out if you're registered, it'll register you. And you'll get every election reminder you ever need and your polling location. Once you're on the platform, it will make sure you vote. Super easy. So as we start to button up against time, let's talk about the dissenters as a Dear Media show. It's a unique show in the sense that there's some, there's some specific parameters around the guests you guys have on the show. It's really interesting guests. And I want to talk through that a little bit and talk through the vetting process of how you bring a guess on what type of conversations you're looking for and why and what people can expect to hear. We wanted to really highlight people in a lot of different sectors. We really wanted to show

this idea that there are heroes everywhere and that you can be a hero yourself. So we wanted to have someone that was in the Latino community, someone that talked about gun violence, you know, Jane Fonda in climate and, you know, some people in politics. We wanted to talk, you know, sports and seriano and fashion. Yeah, for us, it was really just showing that no matter what you do and where you are, there's a way for you to dissent or participate. We have one woman who's a friend of both of ours who talks a lot about, you know, how to do this at home with your kids, how to talk about activism, how to raise, like, children who are engaged and who care. Every episode was really about showing, I mean, this term that we use a lot on the podcast is accidental activist. And we realize almost all of these people were exactly. that. None of them started because they thought they were going to build a massive foundation.

Most of them didn't even know what they were starting. They just really took one step forward and said something and then kind of just like organically built. Mostly Deborah just has a hundred people a day that she finds on the internet and sends to us because she's literally, she sleeps at six in the morning. She's like up all night. I went to sleep at six this morning. Every day I have like 20. I have like 20 text messages a day from Deborah that are just like people. all over the world. I mean, she just never talked to getting Greta Thurnberg.

That was one person that we wanted, you know. But yeah, it's really just people who are the first at something. Because I'm such a big, huge Glennon Doyle fan. Can you separately tell me your favorite piece of advice

that you took from your first podcast with her? I am such a fan of her. Well, first of all, you should listen to it because she has a really interesting conversation about race and how to talk about it and no responsibility to show up. And that was really informative. I, I can't pick one thing. I would say, I know this sounds like a very weird thing, but like, so I struggled my whole life with this idea that I have to be perfect. And I've always, I always, up until like really this activism

tried to like project perfection and, and was, it consumed me in a horrible way. But, you know, she wrote something in her book that said, that talked about how all feelings are for feeling. And it really resonated, I think, for both of us, because I spent my whole life. And the way that I was raised was that, like, you should be happy. And when you're not happy, when you're sad or you're anxious, that's like a mutation. And your job is to, like, go to therapy and fix anger and fix sadness and fix anxiety so that you can reach a state of happiness. And, you know, Glennon talks a lot about how all of those things are meant to be felt. Those are all critical feelings. They're as important as being happy. And you have to feel those things so you can evolve as a person and you can learn from them. But anger is a really, really important feeling. And especially for women. Yeah, she's like, she's like, there's only two people I respect in the world right now. Either people that are angry or people that are in an active coma. And if you're in an active coma, wait till you wake up because I have some shit I'm going to send you.

And it's going to blow your mind. Be very, very careful right now telling my wife to act on that angry emotion. We've been locked in the house together for a time. Your anger is valid, Lauren. Watch out. But it was really like, you know, and that made us feel good because sometimes you're like, why am I sewing? You know, what are these feelings that we have? And I think she's such a truth teller and she says the most obvious things that you can't actually like figure out in your own brain. And you're like, oh, that's so obvious. But I just couldn't figure it out myself. I don't know. I feel like she's like microdosing and like telling us all what's in our subconscious that we need to know. A thousand percent. Debra was like sweating and hyperventilating half the time because she's so. obsessed with her too. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. And, you know, what she said that

really hit me was, you know, your feelings, your big feelings, your anger, your frustration, your passion, it makes other people uncomfortable. And you have been raised to worry about your effect on other people and making people uncomfortable. And we have been raised to not make people uncomfortable. And so we have suppressed all of this. And she's like, until you, you're not free. You're not free. So true. She said on Lewis Howes School of Greatness Podcast, she said the more successful a man becomes, the more he's liked. And the more successful a woman becomes, the less she's liked. And that's an actual study. And that's something that also needs a huge conversation. Like, we need to start talking about that. Yeah, we actually did talk about

that a bit on the podcast with a couple of the guests. I will be listening. We also like kind of use the podcast. Like so Deborah has this huge crush on this guy. Oh. And I have a huge crush on this guy named Prit Barwara. So of course they're two of our guests. And we both like fully were just like blushing idiots before meeting.

I fell to the floor. And the whole time. I fell to the floor. Debra was hyperventilating when he came in. You don't understand. Yeah. Zach. So his.

He started... And he's like ridiculously handsome and he's the most amazing story. They're both crying. I felt like I was like the third wheel on a date. Like they were having this like beautiful conversation about animals and rescue. And his story.

Like this guy almost died and like his dog saved his life. I mean, it was the most incredible story you've ever heard. And but then he also has this poodle named Cora who doesn't have front legs and she walks on her back legs. And I've been upset. With two legs, she was hot. With two legs.

And I've been obsessed with Cora forever. And I said, you know, would you bring Cora? And he brought her. And it made me so happy. Lauren, you better talk about me like this. You better start hyperventilating. That's lucky that Rana allowed a dog in the office. Raina, I'd like to bring my dog in the office too.

I asked, I said, I was like, don't you want to come meet Cora? And she just was like, nope. Listen, the fact that you were able to get a dog through past Vanessa. I didn't ask her. I work there, remember? Yeah. I selfishly would love to ask you guys one more question before we go. You can ask us a thousand.

What is? And Michael might have one too. I don't know. But I would love to know what your morning routine is. And if you use a morning routine to set you up for success, especially in quarantine with everything that's going on. A bandana does. I mean, so we're like very scheduled during quarantine with the kids.

But my morning routine is, God, I don't even know. My kids wake up so early. They wake up at six in the morning and they jump in my bed. So that's my alarm clock. How old are they? Five and two. I've like an agreement that my husband makes me coffee every morning and that has saved our marriage. So he wakes up immediately upon the kids entering the room and goes downstairs and makes a coffee and it makes a milk for a two year old.

So that is his contribution to the morning. And then I have my coffee and I take the older daughter with me. We shower. We come out. And then I like start forming into a normal person that can function. And then I have like the barrage of news and debuts. is articles from three in the morning. Yeah, I have no, I need structure.

I have no structure. She has no morning. She wakes up at 12 p.m. I know, I have no morning. I'm trying to wake up by 11. Like, that's my goal. But the problem is, is that I literally, I literally am reading all through the night.

And I can't put down what I'm reading. And then I get all messed up. So I, basically, is it breakfast time? What time is it? You're very much like an artist with your work, though. Like there's a lot of artists that would stay up all night and sleep during the day. You're an artist in what you do. It's interesting.

You're very creative in maybe a different way than a painter, but it's, it is an art. No, that's why the two of us are so funny, because I'm like a computer. And, like, I'll go into the abyss to build our website and figure out how to, like, code things from, and then. And then Deborah is singing and playing the ukulele because she's, like, coming up with the idea for the next season. And I'm like, what just happened? You know, it's amazing. And I'm like, Mondana, what, you built, you built our website? How did, I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't know you could build a website. And she's like, I just learned today. I was like, oh, fuck you. Well, you're playing piano and ukulele. Yeah, but that doesn't contribute to our life. I didn't even know what a ukulele was. I was like,

what's a ukulele? She's like, you can do the intro, the jingle. That's right. Well, listen, I'm really glad we got to do this. This has been a really interesting conversation. I wish it was in person. When we get back and we can actually get back to the studios, we've got to do it again. A thousand percent. Can you leave our audience each with a book, resource, or podcast that you would recommend that they go and listen to that would provide them value? It could be anything. Any resource you guys like? I was just, I was just recommended a book called White Fragility. I thought it was incredible. I would suggest people follow Jessica Yelling. on Instagram and listen to the daily podcast every day just to feel informed enough so that they don't feel overwhelmed by the world. And follow, I'm a voter. Yeah, pimp yourself out. Where can everyone

follow both of you? So on Instagram, we're the dissenters. Oh, everywhere we're the dissenters. And you can see the full list of the dissenters on the website, which is thedecenters.com. We have 20. Which I built and I'm very proud of. And then our Instagram handles are at the real Debra Messing, at Mandana Dejani. And then at I'm a voter. And again, if you want to register or check, make sure you're registered, text the word voter to 26797. I feel more informed after listening to this podcast and I hope my husband feels more informed about bringing me coffee in the morning. Thank you both so much for coming on. Thank you. I cannot wait to listen to your first episode. Thank you guys. And for all of our

listeners, this can be found on every Dear Media platform for those that are already listening to Dear Media shows, dissenters out. Check it out. Thank you guys for coming on. Thanks for letting us do this. Letting you. You believed in us at the beginning. Well, thank you. And Lauren, let us know what you think of the Glennon, the Glennon interview. Oh, I can't wait to listen.

Yeah. I can't wait. Thank you guys. Thank you guys. Stay good. If you guys enjoyed that episode, I would love to know. And I would also love to know who you want to see next on the podcast. Let us know on my latest Instagram at the Skinny Confidential.

And a couple people from the team will drop into a few of your inbox. boxes and send you some cute new cheeky stickers. We want to hear from you. We really want to amplify voices like we said in the last episode of people that have been unheard. So leave some recommendations on my latest Insta. And with that, we'll see you on Tuesday. This episode was brought to you by Thrive Market, our favorite one-stop shop for all things, grocery, household supplies, pet food, beauty, supplements they've got it all and even wine now. Wine. Thrive wine. Guys, to try Thrivemarket. Go to Thrivemarket.com slash skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle. Again, that's thrivemarket.com slash skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle. Everything is 25 to 50% below retail,

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