The Bossticks - The Gift Of Forgiveness With Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt - Inspiring Stories from Those Who Have Overcome the Unforgivable

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

#251: On this episode we sit down with Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt to discuss The Gift Of Forgiveness. This is Katherine's second appearance on the show. Here first was Ep. 87. For her second appearance we are discussing how to forgive and the potential benefits of forgiving. We also discuss how to respect other people's process in forgiving and how we can all potentially benefit for reserving a place to forgive others and move forward with our lives.  To connect with Katherine Schwarzenegger Pratt click HERE To listen to Katherine's first TSC appearance click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by OUAI OUAI was created by celebrity hairstylist Jen Atkin. Ouai crowdsourced and tested these formulas with their community and used real customer feedback to develop these shampoos and conditioners. With Biotin to strengthen hair, chia seed to thicken and volumize and keratin to reduce frizz and flyaways. All color safe, sulfate free, cruelty free, and sustainable. Shop new shampoos and conditioners at THEOUAI.COM and don't forget to use code SKINNY to receive 3 FREE samples with your order.  This episode is brought to you by THRIVE MARKET. We use Thrive for our online grocery delivery on a weekly basis and we also now get our wine at Thrive! They provide the highest quality products and ingredients delivered straight to our door with unbeatable prices.  Be sure to grab our deal by going to to https://thrivemarket.com/skinny to select your preferred memberships package and start saving today! This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that's reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you're ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your 'Lifelong-Health-401k'. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. This episode is brought to you by Ritual. You guys know I'm a human guinea pig and I'm still here taking ritual and loving it. It's filled with iron, vitamin E, magnesium, folate, and omega-3. Kind of everything. It's made in the USA without synthetic fillers. 95% of women do not get the vitamins and minerals they need on a daily basis. So Ritual created a smarter vitamin with the nine essential ingredients women lack most.

Go to ritual.com slash skinny today. to choose clean ingredients backed by science. Sign up now at ritual.com slash skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. A lot of people, and I think for myself included, forgiveness is an ongoing process. It's not a one and done thing. So, let's say it took me seven years to forgive somebody.

It doesn't mean that after that time necessarily I'm going to be done with it. I'm never going to have blips with it ever again. It just means that I feel like I maybe have a hold on that specific situation. And if I, you know, I also say in the book that if I have moments where I feel like I need to go back and work more on that, I try to be gentle with myself. And I encourage everyone to do that just because forgiveness is really challenging and it's really deep for a lot of people. And it's really hard and emotional. And so I think to be gentle with yourself in that process and understanding.

understanding it is also important. Here we go. Here we go. Let's see if we can get through the intro. That clip was from our guest of the show today. Catherine Schwarzenegger on this episode, we are talking all about forgiveness. My name is Michael Bostic.

I'm a serial entrepreneur brand builder. Most recently, the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And across the me, finally, back in the studio, my wife, drum roll please, Taylor, add some music, Lauren Everts, Bostic. It's getting confidential. Bostick, I don't know about after last. I just planted that baby in you. I'm pretty sure we're both bossics now. So you're going to have to decide if you want to be involved or not. Okay. Well, yes, I'm back. Michael did the last two intros by himself. Did you guys miss me? I kept them short and sweet and people wrote in and said, I love you doing the intros. Michael. They said they've never heard better intros. Those were fake accounts. You know what? I'm surprised that you can talk through the mask that you have on right now. Listen, I saw a couple sniffles in this office. There's a lot of people in here between DBA and Dear Media and then I saw some people sick. I,

I just changed the whole work from home policy to accommodate. Honestly, everybody was excited because I changed the policy and they're like, wow, like we get some more. We get like work from home days. And I said, well, listen, it's not. I hope that's good as, you know, the employer, but I mostly did it for selfish reasons because I can't stand when people come in sick and get me sick. And so just change the whole policy.

Like, you know, don't come in. Yeah. You know what was interesting? Three weeks into my postpartum journey, Michael decided to get sick. So after I gave birth, I had to hear for about, you know, 100 hours. about how sick you were and how sniffly you were. Let me tell you something. That was fun.

No. What happened was I took, you know, the full week off the first week when the baby came. Then I came in each day, the next week just for an hour or two, just to keep everybody on point. And then finally, going into the third week, I was like, I'm back full time. I came in for one day. I'm convinced, Taylor, I'm convinced this was you. You're patient zero. You came in sick.

And then you got everybody else sick. And I had to literally fucked my whole rhythm up. He's literally smiling. I can see it in the reflection. And he doesn't realize that we can see him in the reflection. so it was for sure him. I know it was you, Taylor. You know that scene from The Godfather

when he like kisses Fredo and he's like, I know it was you. That's how I feel, Taylor. Taylor, there's nothing worse than coming into the office sick and sweaty and getting everyone else sick. That's unfair. You know what?

And he's always like moving weird plates and dishes around and touching things. Yeah, one time I opened his drawer and he had a whole fucking color. He sat in there. All dirty. So anyways, guys, we're back. We're back in the studio.

Back to regular programming. You know, we batched a few there. So, you know, some of you may have been frustrated. Like, hey, this is not exactly current. But listen, we're current here. We're back. Everything's smooth again. Anyways, guys, we have a good friend of ours on the show today. Catherine Schwarzenegger. This is her second appearance on the show. She was a guest really early on back before we had the studio, back before we had Dear Media.

Back when we were like literally carrying equipment in a suitcase, we did record it in this same office that we're in now. But it was, you know, it was a little bit more ghetto back then. We had to kind of piece all the equipment together. Now we're professional. We're professional operation, learned. So many of you may be familiar with Catherine Schwarzenegger. she's an author of multiple books, Animal Lover and Advocate, ambassador for best friends,

Animal Society. We did a podcast here with her together with pedigree, so she's many things. And also married to Chris Pratt and the daughter of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver. And she's on the show today

talking all about her new book. It's incredible. It's called The Gift of Forgiveness. Inspiring stories from those who have overcome the unforgivable. Guys with that, Catherine, welcome back to the Skinny Confidential,

him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, Him and Her. Can you butt my headphone up a little bit? Come on, you know the drill back there. I just want to know how you find time to write a book because it's not a joke to write a book. No. At all.

And you've written two? Four. Four. Yeah. Four? Yeah. I did my first one in college, which was amazing but also very challenging with, like, classes, of course.

And I did my second one when I graduated college. And then I did my third one, which was my children's book. And then this is my fourth. What's your favorite? to write. I mean, the children's book was a lot harder than I had anticipated. Really? Yeah, because having written two before that that were adult books, I kind of went into the children's book thinking that it would be really easy because it's a children's book. But there are just so many things that you don't think about when writing a children's book, like what specific words children respond

to versus how we speak to each other. So that one, I had to do like 20-something drafts of the text of that book. But then after you know what the text of it, the illustrations are really fun. So that makes it in the book tour for that's really fun. But I think for me, this, the forgiveness book, I think for me is the most exciting just because I feel like my hope with it is that it will help a lot of people in their journeys in their lives. And the difference with this one is my other topics were very specific, like for graduates, for people who are interested in body image, for children. This one, none of us get through life without dealing with forgiveness. So it's for everybody.

needs this book. Thank you. Forgiveness is a hard thing. You've got to put your ego aside. Yeah. So I want to know if there was like a time in the morning and you know how I like to get specific. You wrote or was it just you wrote when you felt like it? Mornings for me. I'm an early riser. So mornings for me were essential. Like I usually started, I would walk my dog in the morning. And then my writing process was I'd wake up, take Maverick on a walk, come back and just put myself in my office from like eight to three. And if I needed a break, I'd take a walk around the block. Eight to three, you wrote. Yeah. And then it would change, of course, for people's interviews, because I interviewed every single person in that book. So of course, you have to be flexible

people's schedules, as you know. And it was really important to me that I, you know, worked with people's schedules if they wanted to meet in person, if they wanted over the phone, whatever they wanted to make them comfortable because I'm asking them to talk about something that's, you know, not super fun to talk about most of the time. And also it requires, you know, being really raw and vulnerable and talking to me about things that are really challenging and emotional for a lot of the people. So it was an incredible experience. So it kind of shifted a little bit, my schedule per se, shifted with, you know, the interviews and things like that. But who surprised you out of the book? Like who was someone that you thought, oh my God, this story is so incredible.

And this is my favorite one. I don't have a favorite one per se, but I would say, Sebastian Marquin, who is Pablo Escobar's son, he was, I went into it not knowing what to expect, because I think in America, we've watched these shows on Paulo Escobar. We've, you know, learned about him through movies and documentaries and things like that. So to hear about Pablo Escobar from his son and to also hear his son, who is so evolved and amazing and has dedicated his entire life and his entire life's work to forgiveness and changing everything in Columbia and going to each of his father's victims and asking for forgiveness on behalf of his father.

That was incredible to me. And the way he spoke about it, he was so eloquent when he spoke about it and spoke about it with such honesty and realness and very aware of what we know about his father and also what his father has done. but also speaking about it in a way where he's the son of his father and has, you know, incredible love for his father, but also understands that there's a lot of forgiveness that needs to be done there. Quick break to talk about ritual.

Surprise, surprise. I am a vitamin snob. You know this. I have told you that I obsessively researched what vitamin I would be taking every single day. And that ended up being ritual for the last two years. I was taking the essential for women, got pregnant, didn't know I was pregnant for seven weeks, and then switch to their prenatal, and I could not be happier with it. First of all, it tastes like lemon, which you know I love more than life. In fact, I love it so much. I hope Michael gets a tattoo of a lemon,

but that's another story. The essential for women actually tastes like peppermint. So you can't go wrong. You're either going to get lemon or peppermint. So when I researched ritual, I found they had no weird additives. They didn't have synthetic fillers like most vitamins have. And there was no shady extras, like nasty rat extras that you can't pronounce the name of in these vitamins. You know what you're getting. You don't need to like you're being duped. They give it to you straight up. And if you don't believe me, go head to their website.

Everything is so clear. It's so seamless. It's straight to the point. This is also really important because I feel like I've gotten this question via DM. They have this delayed release, no nausea capsule. So it's gentle on your stomach. So you know sometimes when you take a vitamin and it makes you feel like sick and gross, Ritual doesn't do that. That's a big one for me, okay? Big bone. Rituals, vegan certified, non-GMO,

gluten-free, and allergen-free, tons of amazing ingredients. It's got iron, D3, boron. Go check them out. They have the full list, like I said, on their site. Daily changes can lead to big results, so start small today. Ritual's offering all TSC, him and her listeners, 10% off your first three months. Try it out, guys. Satisfactions guaranteed. Go to ritual.com slash skinny to start your ritual today. That's 10% off during the first three months at ritual.com slash skinny. After interviewing all these people, was there a common theme of their process of forgiveness? It's funny because every single person that I talk to about this book, I think especially because forgiveness is such a complex topic, wants like a quick crash course on how to practice forgiveness.

And what I tell every single person is that forgiveness is different to every single person. Every single person has a different relationship with forgiveness. What it means for you is different than what it means for me than what it means for Lauren and etc. So everyone's process is very different and we need to understand that and respect that and know that for some people they can forgive an instant like Chris Williams in the book forgave in the instant. And other people it takes years and months or weeks. And then other people never get there.

And that's okay. So the common theme in the book was definitely that it's a different process for everybody. But I would also say the most common theme with every single person who's able to to practice forgiveness is that when you're able to practice it, it's a huge gift that you give yourself, not to another person, which was a huge change and a shift for me. Because I think for me, I grew up and I think a lot of us think that forgiveness, when you say I forgive you, it's a gift that you're giving the other person. Like, I'm going to forgive you. It's mostly for yourself, right? I'm going to forgive you for saying that your hair hurts when I'm every facet on my body.

I'm never going to live this down. You will never live that down. It's unbelievable. So I think it's it's just shifting that and looking at it as work that you really just do for yourself in a process you do for yourself because a lot of people struggle with forgiveness thinking that they will by forgiving you betray your own pain and hurt in that process and so if you shifted and look at it as something that you're actually doing for yourself it sometimes helps people in their journey with it so let me ask you this and i'd be remiss to to not ask this you're a public person public life when you and you wrote this book about forgiveness in your own personal life when you think about your process for going through forgiveness like

Like how do you start to process and say, okay, I'm going to start to forgive somebody? Yeah. How does that manifest us up with you? Yeah. Like you said, I think it's different for everybody. Yeah, totally different for everybody. And actually, my own life experiences are what inspired me to write this book and each of my books before.

For me, it's different with every situation. But it was interesting because when I decided to write this book, I became interested in the topic of forgiveness because I was struggling with it in my own life. And I, you know, had a friend that I was trying to practice forgiveness with. and I was really struggling with it. And I went to church one day and heard a whole sermon on it. And I went to go try and find books and tools to help me in my own journey with forgiveness. And I felt that everything I found was very religious focused, which is great and okay and

really helpful to a lot of people. But I really wanted something that I felt was more giving me advice on, you know, everyday people's stories. When you say struggling with it, like, how was that made? Like, what was that, what was the impact on you? You were just. That I was, you know, it was years after. I had had an argument with somebody and that I had a big falling out in my life. And I was still

struggling. I just couldn't get there. And it was constantly like something was popping back up in my life. And I just felt like, you know, have I practiced forgiveness? And I honestly, to be honest with you, I thought that I had. And it wasn't until I actually started writing this book that I had moments of constantly feeling like being reminded, actually you haven't forgiven. You're not done with that process. And for a lot of people, and I think for myself included, forgiveness is an ongoing process. It's not a one and done thing. So let's say it took me seven years to forgive somebody. That doesn't mean that after that time necessarily I'm going to be done with it. I'm never going to have blips with it ever again. It just means that I feel like I maybe have a hold on that specific

situation. And if I, you know, I also say in the book that if I have moments where I feel like I need to go back and work more on that, I try to be gentle with myself. And I encourage everyone to do that just because forgiveness is really challenging and it's really deep for a lot of people. And it's really hard and emotional. And so I think to be gentle with yourself in that process and understanding it is also important. I have a lot of people in my life that I know. And I'm also going to refer to myself, too, that sometimes when you can't forgive, it ends up turning into resentment. Yes. Have you, did you notice that when you were writing the book that the people that maybe couldn't forgive as easily like it did actually fester and turn into resentment? For sure. And I've actually noticed that with a lot

of people in my life. Just I see a lot of people who are older than me. I look at them and I'm like, you know, however old you are and you really have not done any work on forgiveness. And I see what that's like. They're very angry. They hold on to that. It becomes, you know, much bigger than I think a lot of people realize it is. And it controls a lot of aspects of their lives, which is why in the book, you'll see a variety of different situations of people, you know, forgiving at various different points in their life. A woman in the book forgave 30 years later. And I asked her, I was like, do you wish that you looked back on that and you forgave sooner? And she was like, no, it came at the exact perfect time for me and the exact time that I was ready for it. So you have to be patient with it is the thing that I've

also realized is that, you know, some of us might look at someone and say like, you know, wow, it was 30 years ago. Are you really not over that yet? And it's like it's different for everyone. And everyone has a different relationship with it and understanding of it. And it's up to them how they want to handle it. You know what's really helped me with forgiveness? Stoicism. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. I don't know if that if you found that anyone else said that. If there's any like specific philosophy that you found that's been helpful. Stoicism has really helped me with being able to forgive because it's like you can't you can't control. Sometimes I think when I notice that I'm trying to control things, that's when I start to get resentful. So I think

when I relinquish control, it opens up space for forgiveness. Yeah. One of the women that I interviewed named Nadia Boltzweber. She is a pastor, but she does a lot of videos on forgiveness. And she did a video that really was impactful for me when she talked about it as taking your power back and cutting the chain off of being associated or owned by that pain or that incident or that hurt. And so kind of speaking, what you're saying is just like not looking at it like this is something that's going to control my life anymore, but looking at it like the emotions to that, I'm going to try and cut off and in my mind cut off any attachment I have to whatever it was that happened or whatever the person is that you need to forgive. And I'm going to take my power back

in the situation because I want to practice forgiveness for myself. Quick break to tell you about my latest. It has to do with Thrive Market, obviously. So what I did is I went on and I bought Michael's favorite pretzels. They're the classic sea salt ones. I have them on my page. Okay. They're by Quinn. And then I also bought the Enjoy Life Dark Chocolate Morsels. So good. And what you do is, you melt the chocolate morsels over these non-GMO pretzels, and it tastes amazing. Pregnancy cravings are weird. What can I say? I even might have put a little lemon on top.

You can't go wrong with this situation. And then while you're in my curated store, you can just go ahead and pick up a tongue scraper. Not only is Thrive Market's tongue scraper insane. It's actually pure copper. So one, it's cute. And two, it's BPA-free. Taylor got the one that's plastic and you don't want to do that. and you can scrape your tongue after you eat your chocolate lemon pretzels.

Yes, Lauren. Everything's cute. Everything's, everything's BPA-free. But the biggest thing is everything is also 25 to 50% below retail when you shop on Thrive. So you're saving 25 to 50% on your order every time. And you're also saving yourself that pain in the ass trip to the grocery store. So here's the deal. Go to the Skinny Confidential Thrive Market curated page.

Pick up the pretzel situation. Get a tongue scraper. Maybe you can pick up my favorite coconut flake cereal. Everything's there. it's ready to go. You can add it to your bag and then before you know it, it will be efficiently delivered to your door. There are three different membership options. We choose the $5 a month, which is basically only $60 bucks a year and then get the savings of 25 to 50% below retail in every order. And also, because we love our listeners, get up to $20 of shopping credit

when you join today at thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Again, that's thrivemarket.com slash skinny. And then cashing in on those savings. Again, thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Let me ask you this because I think there's a lot of similar to a lot of people in the book, especially people like Pablo Escobar's son, like some people, including you that have to figure out the path of forgiveness in a public setting, right? Like, you know, if something happened, maybe not us anymore either, but if something happens a normal person that's life is not public, you know, they can go through that process on their own without everybody else's opinion, right?

Like maybe they have their close family and friends, but for you and for a lot of people in this book that have to go and find forgiveness while the general public is constantly chiming in and saying, like, you should do this, you should do that? Like, how do these people navigate? How do you navigate it? Does it have an impact or not? I think when you're, when it's a public situation, I think that there is certainly different pressures that would come into it that, you know, are a huge factor.

And people say like, oh, you shouldn't because this or you should because it's, it's really like they don't, they're not there living that experience. Totally. A hundred percent. I fully relate to that. And I think that a lot of people in the book who've had public situations in their lives can relate to that as well. So I think that there's a little bit of a pressure factor.

there, but I don't think that it is necessarily something that prevents you from going through it if you're committed to doing the work on your own and in your own life. That's definitely not to say that people's thoughts and opinions and comments don't get to you because I'm... It makes it harder. It does for sure because I think a lot of people, and I notice this with just comments on, you know, social media or however people think when they look at someone's life and choices in life, whether it's what you're posting, how you're choosing to live, of your life, how you conduct your relationships. People always have thoughts on that.

And for people to comment on it, not knowing at all about your healing process, about your intimate family process, your intimate relationships with people is really challenging. For sure, I was very blessed to grow up in a situation where my mom and dad gave us kids very private childhoods. And also because my mom grew up in a well-known family was able to give us a lot of us, kids, a lot of advice on how to handle and manage those kinds of things. Obviously, she didn't grow up with like Instagram, but she definitely grew up with people making comments about certain things. And I think the most important thing is that you have a really great relationships with your, you know, your core people that can be around you to support you and love you in that process and make sure that you don't get caught up in all of those unnecessary comments and people's criticisms and unfair judgments of how you choose to handle your life.

Tanya Brown, whose sister Nicole Brown Simpson, you know, had their whole tragedy. She talks a lot about that, about, you know, the public and the trial having gone through that. and how that dragged on her healing process and her family's healing process and how every single one of our family members handled the healing process of losing her sister in a very different way and how hers was actually delayed partially because of the fact that it was so public and there was so much attention on that i mean that was like the biggest case ever and so there was a huge amount of attention and focus on her family and also on her sister and and obviously o j simpson And still, of course, there is attention on that anyway.

But she talked a lot about that healing process. And then you have somebody like Scarlett Lewis, whose son, six-year-old son was shot in Sandy Hook shooting. And there's a huge amount of attention on her about how she's going to heal, how she's going to forgive, is she going to forgive? Like, how do you go through that process? And she also has a son, another son, to be mindful of her healing process and how that's going to affect him.

So you definitely do hear a lot of people in there who talk about having to deal with that in a public way, but mostly. on a personal level. The Nicole Brown Simpson thing, too, like people don't realize I think that what you just said, everyone in the family deals with it differently. Yes. And what that ends up doing is it creates dynamic within the family where then you need to almost forgive certain members of the family because everyone deals with it differently on their own pace. Yes, 100%. Which is so wild. And I'm learning as I get older, like, just because, you know, me and my sister grew up the same in my mind, we have completely different views of things. A hundred percent. Different narratives. It's so interesting.

I agree, as you get older and also I'm the oldest of four, as we all get older, my sister and I are 19 months apart. And, you know, Patrick and Christopher, we're all super, super close. Like, we're a very close group of siblings. What's the farthest age gap? Like, from your youngest siblings. I'm eight years older than Christopher. Okay.

But we all, like, we all loved our childhood, but we all reflect on it in very different ways. You know, like even my sister and I, very close in age, we have very different experiences of our childhood and growing up. different memories, different things that, you know, something that I might thought of was amazing. She might not have thought of was amazing. And that causes dynamic, though, within, totally. It's crazy, though. Yeah. It's wild. It's very. And it also, my mom talked to me a lot about that because she was like, she would say, because I would, especially growing up and you're like, wait, that wasn't amazing for you? Or wait, you thought that was amazing? I don't think that. Like,

it's just so different. My mom was always like, you need to understand that everybody has a very different perspective on their life and their childhood. And if you went out here and you saw a car accident and there were five people watching the car accident, each one of those people would have a completely different recollection of what exactly happened in that car accident. And it's just weird when it's family though, because you're like, we're related. Like how did you not see the same thing I saw? Yeah. Yeah. It's frustrating. It's the biggest thing I've learned on the four years of doing this show is something that I may think is not a big deal. Somebody else would think is a huge deal. It's something that I think is a huge deal. People think it's not. And like something that I think

is offensive. So it's like what I try to do now is just like reserve open space, open heart to be like, okay, if that's your perspective, even if I don't agree, like at least like honor. Respect it. Yes. Yes. Yeah. This is a sideball question.

After meeting you and now meeting your brother. Yeah. You guys are both very grounded people, normal people have grown up with very public parents. I think about, you know, with this little baby on the way like, okay, this baby is going to come into what? We're not, you know, listen, we're not in the world. No, no, no. But you guys are very, yeah, public.

Yeah. But it's public. And I think what do you think, what do you think you're, what do you think your parents did right in order to basically make you guys what I would say normal people. Like what do you think those? Yeah, you guys are you know, you're very level-headed. I just sat with your brother. And it was like, just a normal person. Also, you guys grew up in L.A., right? Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, in L.A., like you get, I mean, my Pilates class, I'll just like overhear stuff. And I'm just like, this is a wild city.

Because we're from San Diego. Let me just be wild. Let me be blunt. Let me be blunt. Like from the moment I've met you, I've always thought, both of us have thought you're extremely grounded, like nice, great person. Thank you. But you meet a lot of assholes up here in their life. People are just like, like, what the fuck? You look right and like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. You know, and so my fear as a new upcoming dad is that like I want to have a child that

whether they grow up public or not is that they're just, they're grounded. It's like, be curious on your take on it, like what you thought worked for your childhood and like what made you guys grounded people? Yeah. I mean, I think it's interesting because there's a lot of things that, I mean, I think even having a steps on myself now, it's like you think about a lot of the things you reflect on your own childhood, what worked. what didn't work. And I have to say, I know this sounds crazy, but I look back on my childhood and I,

I'm so grateful. I can't really figure out, there are certain things that I think I would maybe do a little bit differently, but I would say majority of all of my parenting from my childhood, I think my parents had an incredible job with us. And I don't say that in an arrogant way at all. Because it's not like your parents are like kind of known. Like, you know, you're talking about two of the most known people. And so I find it interesting that you, when you reflect on your childhood, that wasn't like a huge factor for you. little break to discuss hair. All things hair. Specifically, Way. I mean, I'm sure you've heard of it on Instagram, on social media. It's everywhere. The owner is celebrity hairstylist Jen Adkin. She is so fun to

follow on Instagram and the New York Times calls her the most influential hairstylist in the world. Anyway, she wanted to create the first socially connected hair care brand to drive conversation and innovations in hair. And what I love about Way is they ask their community which products they want instead of telling them what they need. This is such a strategic smart business move, and I'm about it. Okay, so let's talk about the products. They have shampoo and conditioner, and they're all problem solution-based shampoos and conditioners. So they have one for fine hair, they have one for medium hair, and they have my personal favorite, one for thick hair. What their products do is they give you the same outcome, which is healthier hair. I need this so bad right now

postpartum because your hair just doesn't feel the same as it felt during pregnancy. It definitely feels finer and thinner. So I'm all about a really great shampoo and conditioner. Like I said, the one I like, the thick shampoo and conditioner, it cleanses without stripping. And it also leaves your hair feeling super buttery and hydrated. It's like frizz-free and it just feels like a smooth, nice, beautiful finish. Specifically, the ingredients are Shea butter and avocado oil and this is going to hydrate more. And then it also has a marshmallow root, yum, that detangles and fights frizz. And of course, their products are color safe, sulfate-free, cruelty-free, and sustainable packaging. So eco-friendly. I love it. So shop new shampoos and conditioners for fine, medium, and thick

hair at the way.com. That's spelled OU-A-I.com. That's spelled OU-A-I. And don't forget to use Code Skinny to receive three free samples with your order. Guys, try it out. Let me know what you think. And with that, let's get back. into the episode. No, but I will say that I think it helped that my mom obviously came into a relationship with my dad, someone who was new to that world. My mom came into it knowing and having experience growing up in that world. So it was super important to my mom since day one to give us children a very, very normal upbringing, very normal childhood as normal as possible. She never, my parents never took us kids to anything public. We were never photographed,

talked about, it wasn't like they were like, we don't have kids, but she always was very respectful of the fact that she wanted our privacy and our identity to be something that we formed on our own and not be the children of or that kind of thing, which you have inevitably. But at school, we always went by S. We never used our last name. She was always really hyper-conscious of that. And my dad was as well. And I think the only time that I ever felt like maybe we weren't normal as normal as the other kids was the fact that I didn't have a mailbox at our house. That was like the biggest thing to me because our mail was all sent to my dad's office. And so like the biggest thing for me growing up was I thought it was strange that like my dad would drive us to school in a Hummer with no doors and no

roof for sure. But I- No doors and no roof. How do you get out? It was just like you sat in the car and had a seatbelt. There was no door. What do you mean how do you get out? There's no door. You don't have to just pop up. I thought you meant like it was like all closed off. It was a giant metal. Yeah. It was a giant container that they sealed them up in. Okay. Okay. I'm like, yeah, like that I thought was a little different for sure. But like other than that, I look back on my, you know, all the way through high school. And I had a very, very normal. And all four of us kids had a very, very normal childhood. My parents also raised us for to be, you know, do your own thing, find out what you're passionate about. If you,

love animals, do something with animals. Whatever you do, be passionate about it and we're proud of you no matter what. Like it was always very focused on our individual personalities, you know, pursuing and doing whatever we wanted to do, not making us do anything that we didn't want to do. It was always, you know, my mom focused a lot on that. It was a really big deal to her. And I think that I look back on that and I'm like, the greatest thing that you can give a child, especially growing up in that situation and for your guys kids is that the ability for them to have their own identity and the ability for them to create their own persona separate from you guys they'll always be the children of you guys of course but to be able to create their own identity within that is a

really challenging thing and to be able to encourage that and nurture that as parents is a huge gift that you give your kids I look at like kids in your thing you're not kidding more you're I'm a child you just turned 30 we want to do we want to do we want to do we We want to talk about age on the show. But I look and, you know, one thing that's important to us, too, is I always want hope, I'm hoping that this girl coming out, like, has her own drive and, you know, you, it's, there's people in your situation could also just like, oh, I'm just not going to do anything, and not having any drive.

It's about, like, all of you guys are very driven in doing your own thing, and that's your fourth book, right? And so, like, that is important as well. I don't want a kid to come out and be like, oh, cool, it's like, you just chill. Right. It'd be terrible. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's also a really challenging thing growing up in Los Angeles, though.

And I'm sure you'll see that being parents in Los Angeles. It's like you want to give your kids everything and you want to spoil them and make them happy and, you know, do all that. My parents were super strict with that. I was the only kid in my entire high school and friend group who had a curfew, who had chores, who didn't have a, you know, unlimited credit card. My mom would give me $20 at the end of the week and she'd be like, this is for your weekend and for the next week. Like my parents, my dad is very old school with his, you know, rules, laundry, making the bed, turning off the lights, clean up your stuff. You know, it was very much like we might, as your parents, we have this life because we've worked for this life.

You have to make your own way. It's not yours. I hope you're listening to this because I'm very, like, I'm very into this. Like, like, we're not doing like a BMW for the 16th birthday. It's just so you know. It's something we've been talking about a lot where like a lot of parents think they're helping their kids by giving them all that stuff, but like subliminally what you're really telling them is, hey, we don't believe enough in you to go get it on your own. And so I feel like over time,

it does more harm to the child. Because like, we're scared if we stop giving you all this stuff that you're just going to fail. So it's like, it's basically signaling to the kid that we don't have enough faith in you that you can live a life on your own. Yeah. I remember my, my mom, when I was in like ninth or 10th grade, one of my friends got a really fancy pair of high heel shoes. And I was, I said to my mom, I really want that pair of fancy high hill shoes for my birthday and my mom said, I can, I can give you that for sure. I can afford that. I can, your dad and I can do that. Will I do that? Absolutely not. I'm not going to give you those pair of shoes for your birthday because if I give those to you now, what will you have to look forward to?

And I was like, what do you mean? That's terrible. Like I was, you know, hysterical about it. But I look back on it and I'm like, thank God. My mom didn't do that. And thank God my parents didn't just like give us all of that that we wanted instantly. And, you know, just say that, oh, I wanted by this dress. I want to go by that. It's very hard growing up in Los Angeles and your kid will go to school with a lot of people who have very different parenting styles than you. And it's challenging to be the parent, I think, and to be the kid that has all these rules. And it was challenging for me when I was in high school because I would look at all my friends and I'd be like, why don't your parents call the other parents before they come over? Like my mom would never let me go to a house

until she spoke to the parent. I'm going to be in a fucking tree with binoculars standing. Yeah, but you need to come down because you're already like trying to. It's trying to to spoil a fetus. Like, you need to, no, you need to, you need to, you need to, this is really important that you hear this. One to four years old, you cannot, like, they don't know. But after that, it's like time to, time to, I think,

at that point, it's okay, four years old, maybe you're going to choice. I want a level-headed, grounded daughter like this. Why don't you guys, it's so sweet. Why don't you guys come over for dinner? My mother, you'll get a crash course in Maria Shriver parenting. I'll take all the hell if she's parenting. Like, you're the one that's... Maybe I'm getting a little over-excited right now, but I'm spoiled it.

You're the one that is the bad one. I never had a daughter before. Okay. I thought, I was like, I'm going to have a son because she thought it was a boy for a long time. And I was on my marriage as tough young man. He's got to do all these things. It's going to be really hard on it. And then it's a girl, I'm like, oh, shit, I'm going to take the softie ever.

Yeah, but you can't, you really need to, like, relisten to this episode. It's really important. My dad was like that, though. I think my dad, like, was, you know, I'm the first. You have a daughter. You want to, like, spoil them. dad, of course, was super loving and still is today, very, you know, an amazing father, an amazing parent, but also, you know, my dad had very strict rules with us and, you know, held us to certain

standards of like, this is what you're going to do in this house, this is how I grew up. And I love it. I'm so grateful. I don't, I never leave my bedroom now without making my bed, ever. Boy never leaves our bedroom without making our bed either. Except this morning. Well, listen, you know, I noticed you're doing the same. I was talking to Hillary and she was like, well, KSP is going to come.

I didn't know what the fuck she was talking about right now. And I noticed you're doing the same thing that Lauren does. You're doing the Catherine Schwarzenegger Pratt. She does Lauren Everett's Boston. Yeah, that's everyone wants to keep their last name. I'm going to start calling you KSP now because I was like, okay, I know Catherine Lohannows. It sounds like you're, you weren't that public in your childhood. But now obviously, who you're married to, I feel like you guys are photographed everywhere.

Is that annoying? That would be a lot for me. I try not to focus on it like ever. You just don't even give it energy. I mean, I would be lying to you if I said that it didn't bother me sometimes for sure. But I also grew up in it and I, again, not to like completely toot my own, my parents horn all the time, but my parents, I watched my parents deal with it, right? So I also watch my parents deal with it in a very graceful way of just you focus, keep moving forward, you live your life. And I have also,

you know, extended family that I also watch deal with it. And I try to just do the same thing, which is just like, don't let it bother you. You keep living your life and do your own thing. And it is what it's so if you feel if you have an ugly day which i don't know how you could have an ugly day but i'm like like right now like i don't want to go outside like what do you do you just hide no never i never ever want to ever feel like i have to hide in a place or anything like that i've never it would never hopefully enter my mind to do that but of course you have ugly days you have days you don't want to like go outside and do whatever but like you know kim kardashian said at create and cultivate it was like what's the hardest part about being kim kim kardashian she's like

like sometimes I just want to go outside in my pajamas and like let my fat roll and my sweatpants and buy a churro. I'm like that's that, I mean, that's like very real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But she has it very bad. I don't have it like that.

She's like, I mean, she's probably followed every, like every second. That would be a lot. Yeah. So beauty tips and tricks I have to ask, sorry, Michael, that you did to prepare for your wedding. Beauty tips and tricks. I mean, I went to Vanessa Hernandez, who you went to. She's lovely.

Yeah. I went to her a lot for that. And what else did I do? Spray tan eyebrows. Did not do a spray tan. Nothing. Absolutely not. Yeah, I don't think you need to spray tan.

Grew out my eyebrows for two years with Christy Stryker. And then I did my Pilates and then I just like really would spend a lot of time with my family. Your body looked insane. It still looks insane. Thank you. Before your wedding, I saw you. What were all the secrets there? I just like would constantly go on walks with my dog with my family with my husband.

He went to Pilates classes with me. We did it as a couple, Michael. Oh my God, get me in trouble. You've never gone to Pilates with me. I do other things. I think couples Pilates is not only hilarious, but makes a workout go by very quickly, but it's also great.

I got problems with my, like, so-eyes and my hips. No, but you'll also realize it, and it'll be very enjoyable for you. You'll realize how not strong you really are, like your core, because Pilates, you work out muscles that guys who are, you know, really strong and do things in the gym that a lot of men do, you go out on a Pilates or form when you, I'm not actually that strong.

Pilates is hard. So you're telling me I'm going to go and be humiliated. Yes. It'll be so enjoyable for her. One time she took me to that, more like a hanging yoga class and I was in a little more she's out. Oh my God, I want to do that really bad thing.

Yeah, that's good. But I want you to come to Pilates with me. Okay. Jackie Schimel said her husband goes too. Okay, I'm getting beat down by everybody. Come on. Listen, I'm pretty, like, I'm one of those guys. I don't know.

Like, come on. Like, okay. Okay. So I want to know, like, food things. Like, what are your food go-toes? Is there like a smoothie? is it like coffee? Like what are,

what are your things that you keep going back to that you feel like are really healthy? I would say, if you ask my husband, he'll tell you that I have the palate of a four-year-old child.

I like anything that's simple. Serial, pancakes, eggs, toast. I'm on board with that. The simpler, the better for me. I don't like anything

that's super fancy. I'm not into that. I just, everything that's super, one of my news resolutions is to learn how to cook. So I'm going to definitely, definitely do that. But I definitely think that my, my palate is, I like smoothies, but I think that's probably the only adult thing that I enjoy. I told Lauren, I was like, if you could learn two, possibly three recipes, I'm probably building a child right now. I'm not in a half you need to let's.

Listen, I'll go learn something. I'm saying I'm probably good for life. Like, I only need like two or three items. Last night I asked him at 10 o'clock at night. I said, can you please make me Annie's mac and cheese? And you would have thought I asked him to prepare a 10-course dinner. Because I was running around doing chores. Her family came over. I'm making drinks. I'm doing all these things. And then she waited to the very moment. I don't care. I don't care if I woke you up at two in the morning.

She has like a couple of days left of this. A lot of demands. And then there's a mini her coming and I'm in real trouble here. I hope she's the devil to you. We're not calling you dad. I may need that parenting. What are you going to call him, Papa? Papa.

Taylor, you were doing it yesterday, a long drawn out Papa. I don't want Taylor. calling me pop-paw. No, Taylor, please just do it once, just for everyone. Pop-pa! Your mic's on for one time. I can't believe it. Wow.

I didn't have to sit there in sculpture. I love that. Really long drawn out. Very excited to hear that. So coffee, like alcohol, like no coffee. I'm not a drinker. Not a drinker. No.

Ever. No, I mean, I had a drink on my wedding, but I'm, or, yeah, I did. I've never been in so strange. I've never really been like a drinker ever. My parents aren't drinkers. So then you won't mind being pregnant because I miss a margarita. No, I don't think I will. Because I'm not, it's not something, I mean, I'll have, if I go out to dinner with my girlfriends

or something, I'll have like a glass of wine or something, but I've never, I've never been like a drinker, really. I love an oat milk latte, but that's from where? From Blue Bottle. Oh, I've never tried it. I've never tried it. An oat milk latte, is it hot or cold? Hot.

I don't drink. The cold coffee is not something that I'm into. Okay, a hot oat milk latte from Blue Bottle. You need to give my wife a crash course in L. She's all, you need to show her all the places around. Yeah, I don't really know a lot of the places. I feel like I need, like, I don't want like the trendy places, though. I want like the hole in the wall Italian restaurant that no one knows about that has homemade pasta.

You know? Like Forma. What's Forma? What's form? Forma. They make it in a giant Parmesan bowl. Oh, that sounds good. You can take me there.

A giant Parmesan bowl. You just throw me in there right now at this point. Before, before we go, I want to ask you a random question. question. So you wrote a book on dogs. Yes. If someone is out there and wants to rescue or adopt a dog, and I know this is so random, but I have someone in mind that I'm speaking to, what is the best way to go? Like, is there somewhere you recommend they go? Is there a number they can call? How do you adopt and rescue a dog in the right way, I guess? I mean, the greatest thing that I was able to do is foster first because I fostered seven puppies with my sister beforehand. And it was the greatest

ability to be able to kind of dip your toes in that water. So if you, if it doesn't work out for you, you're not like, oh my God, now I have a dog and I can't do anything with it. Like I, you know, I really bit off more than I can chew. So you're able to kind of see, you know, do I really like getting up in the middle of the night? Do I like getting up, you know, early in the morning to take the dog on a walk? Is that part of my life? Is that part of my routine? Do I have people in my life that are able to be part of this community to help me take care of the dog when I, you know, need to go do something? There are a lot of factors that I didn't think about. before getting Maverick, and I would not have thought about had I not have this ability to

foster first. So I always tell people foster first and then. Because there's somewhere you recommend. I think a lot of places have and are in huge needs of foster people. So it can be, you can go, it doesn't matter where you go. No. I mean, not in my experience. I know there are a lot of great local rescues. Love Leo Rescue is an amazing organization and they do a lot of amazing work. Best Friends Animal Society, obviously, ASPCA, they have and are always in need of foster. and they have a lot of different, you know, you can say I have this allergy or I need a small dog or I, you know, can take a big dog, a senior dog, whatever it is. And they can work with you to figure out a dog that would work for you and for your family and your situation in life.

I would like to adopt another chihuahua. That was kind of a question for myself. You need to calm down. Let's get through the baby first because that's going to take some research. There's so many chihuahuas in Los Angeles. Yeah, Michael. I love, listen, I am a chihuahua whisperer. I love chihuahuas. I saw the last night on her videos. Listen, if there's a chihuahua, they will immediately gravitate. towards me. I could use another chihuahua. I know, but the problem is is Lauren said we were going to get this, we had a girl chihuahua who's like literally like the love of my life. I almost tear up thinking about her. Like even more than more. Like you're crying. Almost crying. One time a guy told her to stop peeing in a bush and I don't think he was a kid at the pizza shop. I literally almost just, I almost killed the guy. I love that. I was like, listen, you can push my wife. Don't push the dog. Maybe not now with the baby. But and then she's like, okay, we're going to get this other dog and that because the one dog won't get off of me. She just. sleeps like on my face. She's going to get this another dog and she'll,

that dog will go with her. What's happened now is they both sleep on my face. And so I literally suffocated every night with Chihuahua. One, the first one we bought when I was, well, I bought when I was 18 and the second one, we rescued.

He was living in a cage. And it is interesting to see the difference of their personalities. Yeah. One wakes up. He's so grateful. He's wagging his tail and the other one's like more aloof and brownie. Yeah. It's literally a clone of her.

It's probably why I like it so much. But I am, I'm a very, very big advocate of rescuing chihuahuas, because like you said, aren't they one of the most? Chihuahuas and pit bulls, they fill the shelters here in Los Angeles. They have a really big problem with specifically those two breeds in Los Angeles because there are so many of both of them here. I think we should rescue a chihuahua.

That's what I'm getting out of this. Okay. I want to talk about the book a little bit more. Great. So when you think about writing this, like, if all the people listening, there's a couple, who, what kind of person or maybe what kind of mindset of the person is going through? will this help the most? Like when you think like, I know everyone has to experience forgiveness, but when you, when you thought about like, who were you writing this for? Was it more therapeutic for

you? Was it for somebody in mind? It was definitely a therapeutic and healing process for me for sure. I mean, doing this entire book, as I said before, I had moments in writing this book and it, I wrote it over a year and a half. And in that year and a half, I had a ton of moments of different people in my life in situations from my past that came back up. And I realized that I needed to focus more on and do more work on forgiveness in those situations. So it was definitely I had moments of being tested throughout writing this book. I wrote this book definitely with the mindset of, of course, myself being interested in forgiveness, but also feeling like the most beneficial way that I've been able to be helped in my forgiveness

journey is by talking to everyday people about their journey with forgiveness and learning from their own experiences and their struggles and their challenges dealing with it and then being able to apply what they've learned to my own life. My goal with this book is also that you'll be able to pick it up and put it down. You don't need to read the entire book in one sitting. Because these stories are so heavy and they're so raw and there's so much amazing information in each story, I really hope that you read it, you pick it up and that you put it down and take time to digest after every section. For me personally, when doing these interviews and writing people's sections, it was a lot because a lot of these stories are very heavy. They're very emotional. I mean,

people are talking about losing family members, you know, very traumatic, horrible things. And so even after I would do the interviews, I needed to take time to just process and digest what I had just talked about because they were so incredible. And also it was a huge gift to me to be able to talk to people that I'd never met before and have them sit with me and tell me these very, you know, deep and emotional stories that, you know, oftentimes we don't tell our friends of 15 years. So it was a huge gift to me, but I really hope that people go into it having an open mind to hear different people's perspective, go into it with empathy and understanding and compassion. I have Sue Klebold in the book, whose son, Dylan Kleboldt's one of the Columbine shooters. It's a very fascinating

interview for me and also a really interesting section in the book. I encourage people to read that again with a huge amount of compassion. But every single person in that book told me their stories and wanted to be a part of this book with the hopes that their story will be able to help another person in their healing journey with forgiveness. So the book comes from a really beautiful place of a desire of people, including myself, to be able to share their stories and help other people in their own journey and really also be able to open up the conversation around forgiveness because I don't find that it's something that we often talk about because it's such a complex and complicated topic and subject. Well, I think like the one thing I love about books like

this is and I think where people can use a little help in the push is it offers a ton of perspective right like like I said in the beginning reserving space for people to understand like hey your issue may impact you and maybe you may think it's a big deal of some of the people may not but this book shows that like there's some people that have had some real real serious trauma some real things that they need and so like also someone can read maybe they're like they see they hear a story like there's like okay maybe my situation's not so bad right because like these are extreme stories right but first first chapter is Elizabeth Smart. Like that's an extreme story.

And so maybe someone's like, hey, maybe I can reserve a space to forgive someone because if they hear these crazy stories, it's like, okay, maybe my situation is not so bad. And I think we're in a society right now where, you know, a lot of press and a lot of media, it's a lot of negativity. And so people think like everything is so bad. But in my opinion, like the world's getting better and better as we go on more and more. And I think people just need a little bit of perspective to realize like, hey, maybe my life is not as bad as I think it is.

Yeah, I think it also, I mean, if people have that reaction, wonderful. I think it's also for me not as much about making people feel like, oh, my situation isn't really that bad, as much as it is being able to read a story and feel inspired by the other person's ability to practice forgiveness, whether it's Elizabeth Smart or someone else in the book, to say, wow, they were able to practice forgiveness. Now let me look at my own situation in my own life and say, it's, you know, really horrible or really, really challenging and really painful for me. I'm inspired by Elizabeth's ability to forgive and I want to be able to do that in my own life. Because she can, I potentially can too. Yeah, because I never want to ever, you know, minimize anybody's pain or hurt in any situation.

I have somebody in there, you know, whose husband was unfaithful to her and she needed to learn how to forgive. Or another girl, a woman, Cora Jakes, who had a huge falling out in her friendship with her best friend. I think a lot of us hear things like that and we're like, oh, that's not that big of a deal. But for her and for plenty of other people, it's a monumental deal in their life. So I never like to compare pain. Obviously, there are, you know, stories in this book that are some you can relate to. Others are, you know, just the most insane stories ever and very tragic and traumatic events. And I think the overall theme that, you know, I wanted to kind of get across in the book is that no matter what the situation is, we all have something to learn from forgiveness.

And we all, and every single person in the book, no matter what their incident or situation was, also. is able to speak on forgiveness, their struggle with forgiveness, but also be able to express the huge amount of opportunities and possibilities in life that come with practicing forgiveness and giving themselves that gift. Is there rules to forgiveness? Like, meaning like once you've said, like once I've said to Michael, I forgive you for talking about your hair when I'm pregnant. I accept the forgiveness. Like is there is there a rule that like I can't bring it up again? Yes, I think so. That I need to actually let it go. that I shouldn't hold resentment.

Like, what are, like, the requirements that you've seen? I don't know if the requirements is the right word, but what are the sort of unspoken forgiveness rules? I think it's different. I mean, you'll see in the book it's different for everybody. Like, some people create rules in their relationship on how that works. And if it's forgiveness within two people or in a marriage or whatever that is, you know, being able to establish what works for best for you guys, but other people don't and they

constantly have to go back to it. That's why, you know, forgiveness is really for a lot of people. an ongoing process and something you, you know, you might be upset about his hair today. You might be forgiving tomorrow. And then you go back to it and you remind yourself what place of forgiveness you're able to come from and focus back on that. So that's definitely a common theme in the book of, you know, some people saying, I mastered forgiveness and I'm good. And I grew up in a certain way where I practiced forgiveness and I had a great understanding of it. And I feel confident on practicing forgiveness. There are other people who say, I'm actually never be able to practice

it. And that's okay. And then there are some people who say, like myself, who say, I've been able to practice forgiveness. Will I be a struggler with forgiveness for the rest of my life? I'm sure. But that's okay. Because I look at it like I'm going to be gentle with myself. I'll take each situation as it arises throughout my life. And I'm a fellow struggler with forgiveness.

And that's why I wrote the book is to help other people who are struggling with it. I'm never going to ever say I'm an expert on forgiveness. I'm certainly not. Even after writing this book, not an expert on forgiveness. I'm a fellow struggler with it and I will continue to be, but to be able to take these nuggets of wisdom that are in this book and from these people's journeys and stories and experiences and to be able to apply them and keep them in mind. So when you do have those moments where you really feel like you're struggling, you're able to think of them and hopefully have that

inspire you to forgive. It sounds like a muscle. It is. Well, actually, funny you say that, a lot of people talk about the forgiveness muscle. Yeah. It's a muscle that you need to train. It needs to build muscle memory over time and that you're able to go. back. And if your forgiveness muscle is weak, you know, work on it, train it and how that, you know, grows over time and your ability to forgive in 20 years from now might be better than it is now. And that's great. And it also still might be the same. And that's okay, too. After this episode, I'm choosing to forgive Taylor for going to a strip club the night of my wedding, pissing himself and getting a lap dance.

Taylor looked big. This is my final question because we're talking about individual for forgiveness here, but Lorna and I have experiences our own life. Like, there's a family dynamic, and you've experienced this too. Like, say, we don't have to get into specifics, but there's an issue with the family and maybe I choose to forgive, but maybe my spouse doesn't or my sibling does. Like, how do you get people, like, in these experiences, all these people have family members. Like, say one of them says, I'm forgiven, I've moved on, but not everybody in the family is on the same page. Like, how do you deal with that one? It's like, I've moved on, I've forgiven,

but somebody, maybe like a sibling or whatever, a wife is constantly bringing it back up. You have to have empathy for their journey. It's everyone's different. Yeah. I think understanding that everyone's different is number one. Understanding that everybody has their own journey with forgiveness is super important and their own relationship with it is super important. Also being patient with the process and also being very patient and understanding

with other people's processes on forgiveness. Because, you know, I think we look at a lot of people and even in our own lives, you know, we look at people, I look at people in my life and I say like it's, you know, this many years ago, are you able to forgive? I see a lot of people who, you know, something may have happened to them 40 years ago and they're not able to forgive. And I'm, and sometimes I wonder, well, they ever be able to forgive? And they're very adamant. Absolutely not. So it's being understanding to their journey and their relationship with it. And you need to respect that. And I think a lot of people in the book, you know, Tanya Brown speaks about that. Chris Williams speaks about that. He lost his wife, his pregnant

wife and two of his children in a car accident. And he forgave in that instant. And, and, you know, And his mother had a very, very challenging time with understanding his process with forgiveness and how he was able to forgive so quickly. And he talks about needing to be patient with her process, needing to respect her process, let her be angry. Because you need to work through that, right? You go through different phases of forgiveness. It can be anger, sadness, pain. You know, it's different for everyone. And you need to respect everyone's own journey with forgiveness.

What's a book besides your own? podcast or a resource that you would recommend to our audience that's brought you immense value. Well, of course, your guy's podcast brings me immense pleasure all the time. I think for me, I mean, I'm definitely big on headspace right now, just being like very good for mind, body, and soul. That's something that I'm, you know, super into using. It's one of my New Year's resolutions. And I know this sounds like very crazy, I'm sure, because it's my mom, but my mom has the Sunday paper that she sends out every Sunday. And my mom. It's like an email or is it? It's an email. And my mom, as I've gotten older, I've always respected my mother.

But as I've gotten older, my mom is like a well of wisdom. And I'm just like, I constantly am asking her all of these questions about different things in my life because she has so much wisdom. And I just want to soak it all in. You seem like you guys have a really special relationship. Yeah. My mom and I are super close. My mom is, you know, we're all super close in my family and I'm super close to everybody and everybody's super close with each other. But my mom, she has a Sunday paper and if you subscribe to it, you can get it on Sundays.

And she writes kind of her thoughts and reflections each week. And she works so hard on it and does such an incredible job. And it always leaves me thinking much deeper about something. It leaves a lot of people in my life messaging me and saying, I read your mom Sunday paper and I'm thinking about this in my life differently or this. So that to me, I would say probably really changes the course of my life. and if not my life every Sunday, someone in my life's life. So I think that's probably one of the most impactful and meaningful things. And she's always strangely talking about something that you need.

First of all, she needs a podcast called Sunday Paper. Because then we can listen to it on the go too. Listen, here's what we'll do. We'll go and I'll get some parenting advice and then we can talk about a podcast. I think at one point we were talking a little bit of podcasts. How do you subscribe to the Sunday paper? You can go on Sunday Paper. I think it's Sundaypaper.org.

I have to get the exact link for it, but you can sign that for it or on Maria Shriver.com. You can sign for it on it. I'm going to sign up for it. That's so nice. Thank you so much for coming on. Where can everyone find your book? Where can everyone find you on Instagram? Pimp yourself out. I'm under Catherine Schwarzenegger on Instagram and on Twitter. The book comes out March 10th. It's available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, anything online, but it's also going to be in bookstores on March 10th. And we will go on a book tour. So I'll be posting about dates and locations that I'll be doing certain events and things like that. But it's out March 10th. And potential podcast?

Yeah, potential podcast. That'll be coming up shortly, hopefully. And it's available for pre-order now, though. Okay. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm so excited for your baby. Oh, wow. We're excited too. I'm like just wondering how it's going to get out. I can't wait to hear about all the details about it. I just, and I know she'll give it to me, so I'm just like, I'm really looking forward to it. Oh, I'm eating my placenta. Jesus Christ. Are you going to do those pills? Yeah. I hope you guys love that episode on forgiveness. to win some TSC swag. Think the new pop socket, stickers, maybe a bookmark. Just leave your favorite part of this episode

on my latest Instagram at the Skinny Confidential and make sure you've rated and reviewed the podcast on iTunes. It takes two seconds. And if this podcast has brought you any kind of value, we would really appreciate it. With that, we will see you next time or you will get Michael and I solo.

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