The Bossticks - The Hills' Jason Wahler & Ashley Wahler On Codependency. Addiction, Gambling, & How To Help An Addict In Recovery

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

I would go to sleep. I was super pregnant. I was exhausted. I would go to sleep in the room. And he would be in the office, like up all night, drinking by himself. He like go down to the liquor store in a hoodie and then come back. And I was like, I remember one day he came in. It's like really sad. He came in and I was super pregnant. And he kind of started crying and he's like, fuck, like you're like really pregnant. Like I don't even barely

remember like you being pregnant. Like you're about to have a baby. And I'm like, yep, this is me. It's hard to hear the damage that we do because again, it's such a selfish and self-centered disease where you don't really realize a lot of this is happening because where Ashley's about to go is I was actually on the first floor at Hogue Hospital why she was giving birth to Delilah on the fourth floor. Have we got an episode for you? Jason and Ashley Waller are on the podcast. And I'm sure you recognize them from the Hills. I mean, Jason was like iconic with Lauren Conrad.

She didn't go to Paris because of him. And then he ended up marrying this beautiful, dynamic, smart entrepreneur, Ashley. And together they're like this power couple. And of course, you've seen them recently on the Hills. You also may recognize Jason from Celebrity Rehab, which we get into. This episode definitely does discuss the Hills and Reality TV, but it's also very focused on addiction. Recovery, addiction, you know, codependence.

We went pretty deep on this episode. I really enjoyed talking to these guys. Very, very, very, very smart. And I think what was so cool about this episode is that we had someone who is a, you know, an addict on the podcast, but we got to see how. how the attic affected his wife. And we got to hear her side of the story and how she felt. And I think that that's not talked about enough.

You know, I have an addict in my family. And to be a family member, to be married to someone who has an addiction problem is really, it's really hard. And I think that the people who are around the attic don't get talked about enough. I'm really grateful for Al-Anon, if you haven't checked that out. And if you have someone who you're dealing with that's an addict, that's a really good place to start. But this episode sheds light on how this disease can affect a lot of different people, not just the addict. With that, let's welcome Jason Waller. He's a host, an actor, a TV personality, and a philanthropist who, like I said, have appeared in many hit shows. And then his wife,

who's a hairstylist, a colorist, a designer, a mom, and she has a new haircare accessories line called the Gold Collection. Let's welcome him to the podcast. Ashley and Jason, take it away. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Thank you for having us. This is nice. Thank you so much. I've wanted to have you guys for so long. I feel like I obviously told you I was a Hills fan.

And then I saw Ashley rolling her face with another product. And I was like, no, no, no. We have to get her a skinny confidential ice roller. And people were messaging me pictures of Ashley rolling her face. Oh, yeah. She still does it to this day. I love it. My daughter loves it, actually.

We got to get your daughter one. Yeah. It's amazing. It's like so good for your face. I have such a bad rash right now. It looks like I was stung by a bee. I have so much makeup on right now and the ice roller like saved my life. Oh, you look great. Oh, thanks. Thanks. No, you know, I get really bad migraines and that is the only thing because I get really bad neck pain in the back and so I'll take the ice roller and use it on the back of my neck actually. And it's so helpful because it makes the inflammation go down and then I don't have a migraine anymore. Thanks for the plug. Code skinny. Yeah.

Thanks a couple of it. All right. So I'm so excited to. So I'm so excited to to have both of you guys on. I have been such a fan of the hills, Laguna Beach, all the different things. I also was a fan of Celebrity Rehab, which we're going to get into. I wanted to have you guys on to talk about your experience with the Hills and how you guys met, but I also wanted to just talk about everything you guys have been through. I think to kick it off, I would love to know how you guys met. I'll let you take that one, Ashley. Well, do you remember Los Palmas in Hollywood? We met at a club. Kind of Michael and I have in San Diego.

Yeah. Did you ever come down here? What year was that? Oh, God. Yeah, 2009. It was still out. Las Palmas. And is he,

is Jason, like, out partying, losing having fun when you guys meet? Okay. The only clubs I knew was like that place sound. Remember that place? It was called, was it sound? I feel like you're not the person to talk about clubs.

I don't know about that. Boyer was one. Boyer. Boyer. Yeah. What I worked at Ladoo for a while. You did. Rock Monday.

For like one second. Yeah. So I worked at Gasha House. Oh, yeah. Lonnie and Sill, yeah. Yes. Wait, the owner was Lonnie. Yeah, Lonnie and Till, yeah.

Lonnie and Sil. Yes. Never would have remembered that. Dolce Group. Shout out to Dolce Group. Yeah. Okay, so tell us how you met. Okay, so my girlfriend, we walked into Las Palmas, and she and I were looking

around, and you know, back then, you're wearing like your cute little tiny dress. Now girls are like in cropped up some jeans. It's weird. But you got all dressed up. You went to the club, and my girlfriend was like, oh, my God, there's that guy Jason from the hills. We should go over and drink his alcohol. I'm like, okay, whatever. Which is like what you did back then.

So walk for the table. I don't know where you're going with this one. Hung out with him. And yeah, it was kind of a wild night. We hung out. And I just remember both of us were like really wild. Was it a connection though right away? I need to know.

What is wild? Yeah, what does this mean? Well, my mind could go to a lot of different places. Me and then he kissed my friends. So it was one of those like crazy night. You dog. You know what though? That works.

It does. It worked out very. very well. So we didn't talk for a year after that, but he ended up coming into Geisha House all the time and he'd have a water bottle. And my girlfriend had called- It wasn't full of vodka anymore. No, my girlfriend had called me a couple days later and she was like, hey, you'll never believe who's going to be on Celebrity Rehab. I'm like, who? She goes, Jason Waller. I said, yeah, right. That guy is trouble. Like, there's no way he's getting sober. But then he continued to come into Geisha House with water. And then he ended up living in Newport with my girlfriend's

boyfriend. And so that's kind of how we reconnected. And we went on a date almost a year when he was sober. And literally, we went on a date and we were together ever since. I want to ask you something. This is just because I'm trying to think about like those kind of like 2009, 10 club days. I imagine that wasn't the easiest to go to those places with just a water bottle. It's like you're still kind of. No, you were still in the mix of it. But I mean, at that time, I'd really, I mean, after when I started coming back in, I had acquired some time of sobriety. And so I was already moved back to Orange County. got out of this environment. But I still had a lot of friends up here. So I was coming back and forth. And this was, you know, eight, nine months down the road. And when I was back down there,

actually, after Celebrity Rehab, I lived with Jason Davis. Unfortunately, he's no longer here. A kid by the name of Andrew, who was friends with her friend. And that's kind of how we all reconnected again. But yeah, no, it was, I wouldn't recommend that in the early stages of it. But, I mean, I was at such a different place. And then after, right after I got out of celebrity rehab, for the first time, I actually got like a real job. You know, by the time I was, I grew up playing baseball, it's all I kind of had to do, go to school, get decent grades, and then the show happened, and then just went off the deep end, you know what I mean? And just thought I was living the dream, being paid to party and travel the world at 18, 19, 20, 21. So long story short, though, when I connected

with Ashley, I'd actually had a real job. I actually was... You're 24. I remember his first real job, 24-year-old. Yeah, I started working in the treatment industry, and I was a recovery advocate, and I worked with Mike Netherton, who was the president of Betty Ford for 25 years, Betty Ford's right-hand man. So I had a great mentor. Dr. Drew is still a very dear friend, but he was a mentor for me back then as well. And I really surrendered.

And so that's really when things transitioned was July 23rd, 2010. Do you think being on the hills contributed to the spiral of addiction, or do you just think it helped propel it? So this is what I, it's a great question. I do not blame the shows for my addiction, right? I mean, I was pre-genetically disposed.

I got half my family struggles with addiction and or mental health. It just sped everything up. Definitely, it added feel to the fire because it created access. You know, for an alcoholic, I have an overinflated ego with an underestimated sense of self-worth. And when I'm in the depths of that and you're adding all this falsified reality out here that I can escape with, it just kept adding feel to the fire, you know? And at 18, you know, most of your friends are looking for fake ideas and we're being paid to go around the country. I mean, different-

Girls are coming up too in short dresses out of nowhere. Stripe shirts, you remember that? Yeah. They got friends? Was I got a striped shirt? No, your friend. I'm just kidding. I'm like, I think I was in a green dress.

She's like that. I wasn't a stripe, Jason. Yeah, sorry, poca dots. What, walk us through someone who doesn't have access to the kinds of things that you had access to at that time, what it looks like. Like, is it, is it like you just walk up to the line and they let you in? Is it girls trying to like literally sit on your dick? Like, what are we looking at that's like contributing to the, I mean, look, I guess we can kind of freely speak, right?

Oh, yeah. Earmuffs. No, I don't need earmos. I know everything. I don't even care. Michael doesn't have a pretty fast either. So, again, coming from Laguna Beach, which is kind of like a sleepy, you know, a little surf art community to, you know, never forget, Tallin brought us up to L.A.

Because Talon was kind of up in the mix at 17. You left high school. And we came up here in Frankie Delgado, who I've known now for that long since I was 18 years old, we went up. And we tried to go, I mean, just think of the process getting alcohol, going to 7-11, bro, can you get us some? Or if you don't have a fake idea or anything like that. So we walk up and we go to the back,

I think it was called Element at the time back in the day. And we're like, dude, how the hell? We weren't even on television yet, you know? And he's like, trust me, I got you, bro. We go into the, he walks us through the back door and we're in. And we were, I remember Cedric was with me, Talon, and we just kind of looked at each other. Like literally, it was probably, I forget what movie it was.

But I'm thinking of, I forget, I forget what the movie it is. but it was like we both looked at you. We're like, dude, we're fucking doing this. Like, we're in here at 17. And that's when, I mean, that's when my addiction definitely started to kick off and just having this access. So we're up here every weekend. Because like all your, everybody else in high school is right there, you know, they're down.

And that's a sleepy town doing the house party thing. And you're like up here. Coming up here. And so I was just thinking about how, okay, well, because Talon was on the first season, Laguna. That's why he had this access. I came back from boarding school. So then that's when I came back.

And then we ended up having, you know, the second season came out. But that's kind of how it initially happened because town was on the, on, on, on, on the and on, on the guna. And he started dating Lindsay Lohan and stuff. So that's, yeah. So we, that's how we kind of got into the mix. But it was, it was, it was crazy. I mean, that's, I mean, for this, the access being able to get in. Everything was free. Now you're getting paid to come to these places. I mean, unlimited girls. It was, it was, it was, it was gnarly. I've always wanted to ask this question. This, I don't know how I've never asked this question on this podcast. When you're on such a popular show and you're single and you're

young and you're out having fun, especially in L.A., can, and I think you're going to say yes, can you spot the girl that has desperate energy because she knows you're on the show? There's, there's kind of like, what do they do? Tell me what they do. Like, what has they at? God, it's, I mean, they're just overly, overly flirtatious and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, almost a desperate side to it, you know what I mean? Or they're just kind of like, hey, can we, can we get a drink? Like, they're just overly flirty. It's, it's just very apparent. I mean, it's almost, there's not something like very, very, very, particular that they'd do that.

Oh, that's how you called out. But they were just, I don't know. Like clingery. They're very clingy. Well, here's the thing. Like, speaking of someone who... I love it. That's good.

As a guy who, like, say you're, like, another experience didn't have that access. Like, random girls aren't just popping up out of nowhere. You know, no matter what kind of, like, even if you're a good looking dude. They're not coming out of nowhere and just being like, hey, like, correct. A little bit of a pursuit. So it must be weird when it's the other way around because it just doesn't happen

normally to men. I think that's probably one. why Jason liked Ashley, though, is because it sounds like you were like kind of underwhelmed the first night and you were like, eh, work for it. I mean, that's true. I feel like I was. What do you think? I mean, I don't know the first night.

I don't remember the first night either. I remember being there and I remember like that we met there, but I don't really remember what happened. Yeah, same. My alcoholism at those stages, I was, it was blackout. So I don't remember like when I drank, I would black out. Do you remember the first moment that you just. this is time for me to get sober without someone else pushing you? Or were there things that led up to it?

Was there an epiphany? Was there a rock bottom? I know everyone's stories different when it comes to this. Yeah. I mean, again, keep in mind after going to 12 treatment centers, you know, being arrested a ton of times, you know, and having everything that society says is amazing, whether it's money, access, notoriety, you know, girls, whatever it is, I was still that individual that was just so lonely, so depressed, so ashamed, you know, that not only did I contemplate attempting suicide, actually tried committing suicide. By the grace of God, I was found and I'm still here. But the turning point for that was actually, again, as I have a very tight family dynamic, my parents have been married that coming up on 50 years of marriage. Yeah, this year, 50 years. And going back into a therapy

session with my parents for the hundreds of time, you know what I mean? And this was right before July 23rd. It was like a few days prior to that. My dad never seen a breakdown. He's kind of like the patriarch of our family. And the only time I've seen him break down is when his mom died. And he basically just looked at me with my mom there and tear coming down his eye and just saying, hey, look, Jason, like, we don't know what to do anymore. You know, mom and I, our marriage is suffering and were like two planks of wood, laying in bed, just waiting for the phone call, you're dead. And whatever that was, and again, there's conversations, there's multiple interventions

that have happened, but there was a moment of clarity there. There was a real light that came on that I saw through my dad. And I didn't have enough motivation for myself at that time to get sober, but my family because I had such a tight dynamic, I said, look, I don't care enough about me right now, but you guys would become my motivation and my inspiration. And that was the time. That's when I really transformed my life. Was alcohol your drug a choice?

Yeah, I would say alcohol is my drug of choice. But I mean, anything that would make me feel different, I was addicted to. I mean, I loved cocaine. I loved anything, any form of uppers. I mean, I tried all types of pills and stuff. But I never got into the, like, heroin or any needles or any of that type of stuff. Side note on cocaine for anyone who's listening, and you could probably speak more eloquently on this.

but I heard that, like, recently, cocaine's being, it's completely different than it used to be when you were doing it. It's like laced with fentanyl and stuff and people, is this, maybe you could just do a little, like, sentence on this. It's one of the most dangerous times right now. I mean, anyone who's listening who's doing cocaine, you could, if you know anything about it. Yeah, no, I mean, I just think in general, there's, drugs are way different than they were just overall. I mean, I'm talking about marijuana. You're talking about any forms of prescription drugs. I mean, pills nowadays that are, that look just like a Xanax, it looked just like an oxy that look just like a

volume. They're actually pressed and they're actually fentanyl based. So yeah, you have to be really careful. It's sketchy now. We had a hundred. So we have to understand addiction is the leading cause of death in America for 50 year old individuals and younger. I mean, just kind of keep that in mind. We had 100,000 people just this last year die from overdoses. That's not with, you know, dealing with heart attacks, cirrhosis of the liver, you know, although that's just purely over a hundred thousand people. And it's the only disease in American history that's been on a steady incline. with the amount of people dying with a steady decline with the amount of success. Wow.

It's one of these charts going like this, as opposed to it should be going up together. And the pandemic. I've seen so many people that, like, I would never, like, they're like, I'm drinking more. I'm taking more pills. So sad. Even when you watch some of the reality TV show, you can tell like something's off. Yeah. You know?

It's so sad. Yeah. You guys know what the number one form of happiness is, right? What? Longest Living State at Harvard. You know what it is? What? Human connection.

Yeah. I did not know that. Whoa, that just gave me chills. And you wonder why, again, as I think the tip of the spear is, this is my belief, right? I'm not a doctor. I'm not, I mean, just working in the space, I've been around it for so long. I think we have not even come close to seeing what the repercussions are from the mental health standpoint from 2020. Oh, sure. That's such an interesting topic that you bring that up and kind of on a tangent. I was talking to Michael the other day. I'm like, I feel like the world was in fear for two years and now everyone's burnt out.

and I think that people don't acknowledge the micro traumas that everyone has been through. And I think there's going to be almost like a PTSD from this that we haven't even, we haven't even hit yet. Yeah. 100%. A hundred percent. Every single morning without fail, I start with my chlorophyll water. I like love it.

It's become a routine. So what I do is I wake up. I do my light movement hydration. Open the shades. I try to get some meditation in. and then I do one of those tanks cups that everyone has on Instagram because it makes the water freezing cold with tons of ice. And I fill it to the top.

And then I do a couple drops of chlorophyll and also the beauty minerals. And both of these are by Sakara Life. I am so obsessed that I harassed the brand. Like, I emailed them and said, can you please send me more? I ran out and then I emailed them. I'm like, can you send me more? Can you send me more? Can you send me more?

Even to the point where I'm using my own code. I've got my dad on chlorophyll. It's so good for your blood, your brain, your gut health. There's so many benefits, you guys. I've been talking about it on the skinny confidential forever. And now to have it just as a part of my routine, it's just been seamless. So I feel like everyone needs to get on board with these drops. I talked to one of my doctors about it.

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power. Yeah. So when you decided to get sober and you're on a date with Ashley, was this the like, was this, was this it? Were you sober from then on out? And how did you sort of of support that. And were you guys dating at all ever in between, like when you're using and when you were sober? Give us like kind of your journey together of how that was working. So we didn't talk for a year after we met at the club. And then when he started when he started coming into the restaurant in Geisha House, that's when we decided to go on a date. I actually was going to fit him and I was finishing my degree. And he, I don't know how we reconnected. I think through social media like Facebook or something. And we ended up trying to get together and our schedules weren't

working out. And then finally we went out on our first date. We went to Ovo Trisante in Brentwood. love that restaurant. I remember it so well. And it's actually a funny story because of the stage five clinger earhorn situation. When Jason came to pick me up, he did not have a date planned. He just said, hey, do you care if we go and hang out with a few of my friends? So Jason did not take girls on dates anymore because there were so many psycho fans that he had to take girls on group dates in case he had to leave the girl with his friends. Yes, seriously. What a move. Yeah. It was that bad? Yeah.

It was really weird. Like, I mean, the shit that I, like, that was. Because I imagine people are, it's hard to decipher who's dating you for you and who's dating you for what they think you are. 100%. Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? Like, they would like, what are they doing?

Michael had a girl that chewed glass. What? That was weird. That's pretty legit. That's really weird. Listen, you know, wasn't, that was weird. It wasn't, it was kind of a turn on too at the same time. He was chewing glass.

But, yeah. So they were just. It was right through the wine. They would just be so weird that you couldn't even. It would just be overly, it would be like overkill with what they'd do to the point of like it being super uncomfortable and awkward. And like I literally wanted people there. Like I don't know if they're going to try to sue me or like what, you know what I mean?

It was just like it was like for anything. And I also have to understand I was in a super sick state of mind like this like that last year or two years. It was like it was almost protection for myself too, you know, just because I was I was such a bad alcoholic. But you were sober then. I know. But I'm saying in general when I started doing that towards.

It was just more of like to make sure how this is important. Yeah. 100%. So you go on a date with his friends. Well, there was like a nutritionist and then like another friend. I don't look like I was in shape, you know? And then another friend. I think there were two more friends.

I think Brendan came with us and then you're a nutritionist and then maybe one more person. And then we ended up like leaving them. It's such a good memory. I remember exactly what I was wearing too. I was wearing like these like probably cheap lace up boots from Melrose. and like this shirt, gray shirt that had like a skull on it or something. I don't know. I can spot the time.

And like, remember the really tight, tight skirts that you used to wear the bandaged skirts? I think I was wearing one of those with like the lace-up heel boots. You guys should be yourself for Halloween one year when you met. Oh, that would be so bad. So did you fall in love with him the first date or was it not like that at all? First date. I think it wasn't necessarily that I fell in love with him, but I felt like this really weird sense of home. My parents have been married for 32 years.

I grew up in an Italian family, very strong, like, Catholic morals. And his family was a very big family, too. His parents had been married for a really long time. So we automatically kind of hit it off with having that, like, very strong family dynamic. And we left his friends and we literally laughed the whole entire car ride. And I just felt like this weird sense of peace. I don't know. It was like a feeling of home.

So at this point, had you already been on celebrity rehab? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, you were done. with it. Yeah, I didn't date you when I was on celebrity. Let me ask you a personal question. And Jason, please don't take offense. But when you

see someone that's struggling and they've been on celebrity have and they've been on television but you still have the foresight to be like, hey, this is my person. Like, what are you seeing and what are you able to ignore? Because I think a lot, you know what I mean? Like a lot of people would look at as me like, oh, this is a fix-it project maybe. And I don't mean that offensively. Yeah. None taken.

So honestly, I had no idea about addiction. I grew up, but like my parents gave me alcohol when I was eight, you know, with like a little glass of wine with dinner because that's just what was very normal in my family because we grew up very Italian. So maybe you didn't realize like what real addiction was. I really had no idea what addiction was. And this is such like 2009.

Like people weren't even talking about struggling with addiction or anything like that. So when he had told me though that he, you know, the first thing he said to me actually in the car was, listen, my sobriety is number one. Nothing comes before that. Not you, not anybody. Number one. And God. And without that, I literally have nothing.

And so that moment on, I didn't drink around him for like a year. like literally stopped drinking as a support to him because I felt like I I'm not you know drinking for me is not like really a big deal whatever I could do to be a sport to him I loved him so whatever I could do because we used to go out we would go to hide we would have fun and I wouldn't drink around him because I didn't want him tasting alcohol in my breath you know I just felt like it was kind of rude so yeah I didn't drink for like almost a year out that's pretty amazing yeah I want to go back because I feel like we skipped celebrity rehab okay what was that experience like is what we see is what we get.

It's pretty, pretty is what you see is what you get. I mean, I went on there, you know, I went on there to change the public's negative perception of the way they perceived me, you know, just as a whole. You did. You did a really good job. I appreciate that. And I mean, I went in sober. So I had like, I think like 20 days or 20, like maybe 30 days sober.

I forget the exact amount of time. I was actually in a treatment center came back and then I transitioned into there. So like I said, I kind of had my own motives of going in there. And I also respected Drew and I like Bob. And I thought that they had. Bob forced. I love Drew. on here, hi, Drew, but I think Bob Forrest is an angel sent from somewhere else. I mean, that guy,

even with us for some things, like he just wants to help people. He does. He does. He's a great guy. And again, so having those two guys, which I love and respect dearly. And again, they've been instrumental in my recovery journey all the way to today. But getting their insight, getting their perspective on everything. But it was like a TV show for me. I mean, I was in there. I was already detoxed. I was already kind of going through the motions. And, you have to remember, I'm in there with, you know, Laf Garrett, Janice Dickinson, you know, Jason Davis.

I mean, there was some people that were really coming off some heavy detox. So it was almost like, for me, it was like being on a TV show, but watching a TV show. Hold on. I have to do it. I'm sorry. I was like a background problem. I am obsessed with Janice Dickinson. And I'll tell you why. She's the right. I like, I'm attracted

to people that you never know what's going to come out of their mouth, aka my producer Taylor. like she's like on another planet in the best way I've read all her books she's lived a crazy life was she

is she how she is yep I mean we hang out with Janice I've been friends with Janice I've been friends with her for years you should have her on here

I would die I would die I think I would stop podcast weren't you talking to it when are you trying to work that I was talking to her I was talking to her on Instagram but like I don't know

I feel maybe you guys can say that like Lauren's obsessed with her I love her she and the The coolest story about her. She's doing phenomenal. She actually married a psychiatrist from UCLA. Yeah. That's cool. That's why you can't really haven't heard from her. She's like doing really, really well. So, but I'll connect you to. Yeah, she's the best. She's, she is exactly what you see is what you get. Like in your point, that's how she is. I mean, I'll never forget when we had her up in Arrowhead. We went, I mean, gone on the boat to the village and it was like, oh shit, dude, like we're going out in public, you know, like, I get a bummer. Like, but just all these, you know, all these families and stuff. And it's just she gets off. off the bed and she's just, it's who she is.

She goes through the grocery store and she starts opening all the lotion bottles and putting them on her body. Like, she owns the fucking store. I'm like, Janice, what are you doing? We haven't purchased these dishes. Like, I don't care. Like, just putting them on her body. She's like, I'm so, my skin so dry.

I'm dying. Oh my God. She is like, she's a cartoon character. She's legit. She's amazing. Okay, so go ahead. So you're in the house. Did you name everyone you're in the house with you?

You said, Leaf Garrett. Jason Davis. Yeah, Jeremy London. Jeremy Jackson. No, not Jeremy Jackson. Rachel, you could tell Tiger Woods, like, main mistress, Jason, Frankie, Keisha Cole's mom. And then... And no one can hook up and no one can do any substance.

Correct. And I don't think anybody hooked up. No. And Eric Roberts was in there with us. Julia Roberts. Brother? Brother. Eric Roberts.

Did you like the experience and did it actually help? I thought it for... So as a person in there, yes, I gained education and stuff like that. And from a viewer, because I actually watched other seasons and stuff like that, I think for somebody to get an understanding and to get more education, I think Dr. Drew is a very well-educated doctor and he does a very good job at explaining stuff. So I think there is an educational component for the audience. But as a person in there, yes, I took stuff away for sure. That's cool. Let me ask you this. It's kind of a strange TV deal, right? Because you're going through the throes of addiction. And then they're like, hey, but come on here and do it on television. So there's like the television deal agent, manager component. but they're also going in to get sober. Is that strange to navigate? Carrie Uma have been saving my feet from gaining weight with pregnancy. It's been a bitch on my feet.

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again, not Drew, I want to be very clear, but the producers like, hey, you got 25, 30 days of sobriety, whatever was. Like, do you mind relapsing? I was like, No, bro.

Yeah. What? You didn't tell me this? What the, people are fucked. Yeah. That's gnarly. Yeah, for TV components. Are you fucking serious? Yeah.

I remember my dad's like, my dad's like, that's when he was just like, you just like, you know, lost shit. Yeah. Oh, Ashley's like, I'm gonna be pizza. I was still, I mean, I know you're an adult at 22, but I mean at that at that age, I mean, it's still, again, is I was literally had the, the personality of like a 14 year old kid. You know what I mean? Or this the wherewithal of a 14 year old kid. even though I was 22, just lost all sense of everything. That is gnarly.

Yeah. So you had a good experience besides that. You meet Ashley. You're sober. Is anything going on after that or are you just sober after that? I was sober for almost five years. Almost five years. Yeah.

And then did you guys get married within that five years? Yeah. We got married. We had like the perfect cookie cutter, Orange County Life. We got married. We bought a house. We got a gold retriever. Yeah.

King Lou. And when did you have your first daughter? We had not had her until Jason was actually not sober anymore. So do you want to tell the story? Yeah, well, so we got married 10, 12, 13. We got married that date. Oh, what's our date? We got married.

Do you remember? 1012. 13. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. That's literally why we did. I wanted to do 11, 12, 13. It was taken.

The weather was kind of funky. We got married to Melvin. But no, after having the five years of sobriety, and, you know, obviously did a ton of work on my to get to where I was at and you know down the road as life got busy and stuff I stopped doing the things that I did to get me sober and my my program went off track and other things became more important I lost side of God it's lost side of my routine a lost side of my structure and actually went to a psychiatrist and somebody that did was my history and I said hey man like you know

and I was prescribed at like 11 12 years old with ADD I was prescribed a Adderall at a young age hated it never you know never thought anything of it so I saw the psychiatrist with no intent of actually abusing it, honestly, because my life was, everything was in order. I had a really good job, all these things. But I just, again, wasn't doing the things I needed to do, self-care and stuff like that. And so I wanted to, you know, I wanted instant gratification, even though looking back, I know all the things I could have done differently and got prescribed to Adderall. After five, I would say five years of sobriety, started taking it within three months. I ended up getting prescription dyslexia. And so taking one every four hours, I would take, you know,

for every one hours. And it just became this domino effect where I was up to about three to 400 milligrams a day of Adderall. Adderall makes you, I feel like if I even took a 20 milligram or 10, I would be so irritable. Were you so irritable? I was fucking taking apart my shredder. Like literally tweaking. It's pharmaceutical synthetic grade. It's hair.

I mean, it's meth. It's pharmaceutical synthetic grade math. This is the reason I wanted to have you guys on, though, is this conversation because I would like to hear your side of when this, like, did you start to know that he was like, like, kind of like Jonesing maybe to to do something? Did you feel that? Was the energy changing? Like, what was your vibe during all of this?

First off, I think it, like, down traits, too, from my family dynamic. Like, my mom's very codependent. And I always was taught, like, take care of your husband. Like, he's kind of the one that's responsible. He's the one in charge, you know? So when I had met Jason and he was having, I mean, he was like the breadwinner of the family, he was the one that had everything kind of in order. So I never really thought anything was wrong until,

I kind of started noticing the alcohol, I remember, in the garage. So just for clear, just real quick, clarity. Atterol was about six, seven months where I was just trying to manage that. And I was getting sleep deprived. I was literally like hallucinating shit because I would be up for days. I couldn't sleep. So I had to start drinking this to, I literally started drinking to fall asleep. And I remember the first time we were in, we had our garage.

And I remember the first time I found that alcohol. And I remember you lied to me and you were like, no, it's not mine. It's our neighbor. Chaz. Yeah. Sorry, Chas. I did say that. I remember that.

That it was our neighbors from next door. And I was like, okay. You know, like totally aloof. Was this just hard liquor that like you're just like swinging out of a bottle? Yeah, like whiskey or something. And I just remember like my gut, I think was telling me something was wrong. But I did not want to believe that that was my life because I didn't have support. I didn't know what to do.

I didn't have any tools. I didn't have any programs. I really didn't have any idea of what to do. Like I always thought, okay, my husband's sober. He's going to be sober forever. so everything's going to be fine until he's not sober and then I'm like, shit, well, is he going to be okay? And then I'd ask him and then that's when the manipulation starts because now, great, Jason's got caught. No, honey, I'm fine. Like, everything's great. Don't worry about it.

How did you, did you not notice he was so irritable at all? Oh, for sure. Like towards, towards like the end, you'd say it all. Yeah. But you get so good at the lying conniving, the manipulation where it's like, oh, it's work. It's because I'm dealing with addicts. I'm dealing with all this stuff. You know, people are, I mean, the pressures. And the other sad part is, is I'm dying inside, but I'm also trying to help save people's lives, like where, again, that doesn't make any sense. But I was literally working 90, 100 hour a week. You almost believe that lie yourself. 100%. So it's easy to lie because it's like you believe, you're conditioning yourself. Actually, I imagine that you, all you want to do is protect your husband from also your friends and

family, making sure that he looks good too. So that's such a, like, hard position for you to be in. Yeah. And you have to remember, like, Jason's working in the treatment facility. That's like what was our income. And so he would say, like, if you tell anybody about this, like, we're not going to have our, I'm not going to have my job. So of course, then I'm like, well, shit, now I'm living with this huge lie. I don't really have anyone to turn to because here's like, Jason, you know, everyone's looking up to this man. And here we are living with this horrible secret. So it was just, like, sick. Like, I was addicted to his addiction. I would check up on him. I would look for things. I would look through his bags and him and I would fight. He would be, the manipulation was crazy. I was a

dormat. Like, everything. you could ever imagine of what it's like to live with like an addict or an alcoholic, that's what it is. But then also, I'm deteriorating as a person because I'm starting to live this lie that I don't even know what reality is. Like, I could not even tell you what my favorite color was, what I like to do, who I was. I had no idea because I was so lost in this like false sense of reality of our life that I almost didn't want to believe it was true. So I kept pretending like it was. The scary part, though, is like when I used to use way back in the day, it was like, dude, guaranteed you're getting trouble, arrested, something would happen, right?

And the scary part is, is only she knew. I'm working with doctor. I'm working with nobody knows. And so that I was able to, I'm sure now that it all makes sense. I've talked to a lot of people in there like, yeah, obviously now, like we can see how it lined up. But I was able to mask and even manipulate people with that, which was the scariest part now is because now I'm able to hide this. You know, I mean, from all of them and just kept getting deeper and deeper. And this is a primary chronic and progressive disease.

Do you start to believe that you have it under control? Yes, for a while. I did. You're like, I'm managing this. Correct. And then it got to a point where obviously everything that she's saying. I mean, internally, it was basically we were imploding from the inside out, you know, as opposed to usually it was from the outside end.

This was all happening internally now. Let me ask you one more question because you, and tell me if this is not your quote, because I wonder like, and maybe we skipped over this a little bit, but you went to the psychiatrist or therapist, you got Adderall. But it says here, relapse begins before someone even picks up a drink. I don't know. Yeah. I attributed to you, but were you in a certain mindset that, like, you started kind of slipping back to it even before? Yeah, and that's what I was saying. There's a big difference between being abstinence of drugs and alcohol versus living a life in recovery.

Like, I'm sure you've heard the term, you know, you're a dry drunk, right? And so that's just the mannerisms and the behaviors. That's what I was saying. And so I stopped doing everything that I needed to do to stay sober. Like I have a very structured routine. And structure creates consistency, which creates safety. And that's for most, that's with kids, right? If they're on routine and stuff, they do very well. As an addict for me and for me as my alcoholism, when I have routine and structure, I'm in a much more safe place. I need to have, I need that structure in my life. And a lot of that stuff went by the wayside. Again, as I was starting to lie. I was starting to manipulate. I was starting to do things where on a daily basis now, I mean, just like one of the things I do at the end of the day to clean up the wreckage of my past is I actually do. a little bit of an inventory, look at where are the things that I did wrong? Who do I need to make amends with? And what are the things that I did right? What are the things that I did good? And so it's like there's a whole process that I have that I'm happy to share that I do on a daily

basis. That's what I was just going to ask you. If you could share that with the audience, like just on like a side note of what those things are. Yeah. So in the morning, look, the first thing I do is when I wake up, I do a morning meditation. I do a prayer and I actually do a gratitude list of three things I'm grateful for not only what, but why. That's where the meat of everything is. And then I get up and I spend time with my daughter and my son. I mean, I always take that first 30, 40, 40 minutes with them. And it's an important side note is the first 20 minutes of your day will dictate how the rest of your day goes. So whatever you are inputting into your life in that first 20 minutes will really outline how the rest of your day is going to go. So I always put

something very positive into my mind. And then I always, I incorporate the gym is a very important thing. I mean, your brain produces more potent chemicals than heroin. You just got to let it work. So exercise is a huge thing for me. I do at least three to four times a week. And then I have, there's a core group of guys that I meet with, especially during COVID. I used to go to meetings all the time, but there's a core group of people that I get together with on a, on a multiple times throughout the week. I call them like accountability buddies, people that we can hold accountable. They're more mentors than anything, you know, much older, but a safe place to be able to go. And then I'm of service. You know, I kind of live my mantra. My day is do something nice for somebody

and don't get caught. And that's kind of how I go about my day, honestly. And I try to be of service as much as I possibly can, which is a big part of my program. And then, again, as incorporating God, I have a Bible study that I do with a bunch of guys on Thursday mornings. and then I go to church every Sunday. And so those are kind of the main structural pieces that I have in there. And then at the end of the night, like one of the biggest things that I started doing now is this daily reprieve, though, is doing an inventory

and taking ownership and accountability of my day, right? Like, okay, like if we were driving up here and I flick somebody off, fucking guy couldn't drive, whatever it is, just those little things that you don't think add up. Those are little dominoes that fall. And that's when active addiction can come into place. If I don't take ownership and accountability for the things that I have done, before you know it, it's a week down the road,

all these little dominoes that I could have picked back up, get too heavy. And now they're just starting to take off. And you understand that analogy I'm explaining? I'm going to do, I'm copying you on this inventory. It's amazing. So it allows me the opportunity. And it gives me an opportunity to be credible for myself and pat myself on it back. It's not always this negative thing.

It's like, hey, man, like, there's amazing things that you did today. You know, there's things that you were, like, there's texts that I've gotten in the last few. I mean, that's why I love what I do is to get texts from people's daughters from their husbands or wives. That's pretty incredible. Someone helping. You saved my, like somebody's a very dear friend of mine who's wife passed away. He, a very, very successful individual, but was really struggling the last couple years of his life. He was sober the last two years of his life before his wife died.

And to have the whole family reach out and to say, like, we can't thank you. And again, that's, that's the motivation and the beauty behind this. And so I know I've kind of, sorry, a rabbit hole to all this. No, no, it's interesting. But it's, that's what, that service piece is so big. But that inventory piece for me is like, when I have something bad, I can fix it. You know, there's something I can do immediately.

And that way I start my next day, it's completely fresh. I don't have shit from yesterday. Lord, I don't know if you know this. What? But I've been on fire lately. People are very interested in the supplements. And here's the real deal. This is a no-b-s, real deal, what I do every single day of the week.

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to do is visit athletic greens.com slash skinny. Again, that's athletic greens. com slash skinny to take ownership of your health and pick the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Athletic greens.com slash skinny. You know, it's funny. I take inventory of my day, but I only think of all the things I did wrong. But you said something in there that I'm going to do. I also need to think of the things I've done right too. I think that that's a mistake to just be like sometimes I can be hard on myself, also adding in the things you did right. That's really, really cool. I love, I'm going to copy on that and be like. Everybody's so hypercritical on themselves.

You know what I mean? Really, everybody needs to get themselves more grace with stuff is because we're our biggest, you know, I mean, we're so negative. I'm so negative on me that I have to constantly remind myself like, dude, show out. Like you've gone through the ringer, you know, and it's, again, it's nice to be able to be kind to yourself. I'm going to take inventory that I was 20 minutes late. That's one thing.

I did wrong today. We just did a podcast with this guy. Ethan Crosser wrote a book called chatter and a lot of it was like the voices that's in our, or basically what's in our mind. and you said for, you know, study after study just shows like how hard we aren't. Like, we say things to ourselves that you would never say even to your worst enemy, right? Right. Bitty, bitty, shitty committee.

That's what we call it. Yeah. Ashley, when did you see Jason? He said you were imploding from the inside out. What was the last straw where it was like, you need to go get help? I can't deal with this anymore. It's too big for me. I had a moment like that with my sister.

And I literally just, I had to, she said it earlier. You had to surrender. So there were like a few because it happened. happened a few times. But when we, so we ended up having to sell our house, Jason on top of it had like a really bad gambling addiction that was on top of the drinking and everything else. And just for the audience to have context, was the gambling addiction before the drugs and alcohol addiction? Or is it simultaneously? It was simultaneous sports bets, sports betting. Yeah, really bad. So we ended up selling our house. And then it was kind of like this thing

because I was heartbroken when we had to sell our house. Because Jason grew up very different than I did. I did not grow up with money. My parents always had like hand me down furniture. So this was like a house that we moved into where everything was like restoration hardware custom. You know, I was very attached to my things at the time because I never really had like super nice things.

Whereas Jason had grown up on jets and always had really beautiful built houses. You know, his dad was a home builder. So everything, you know, they'd always lived in like fresh homes and everything was great. But so when we had to sell our house, it was very heartbreaking for me. And, you know, Jason always promised, you know, this house has really bad memories for me. So this is also where the manipulation comes into place. If we move, I'll get sober. Because this house has bad memories now. So if we move, I'll get sober in this house. I don't have any bad memories. So I remember we moved. We moved to Corona-Amar. We lived in this like really beautiful house close to the beach. And can I just really quick

asked to, did you know the reason you were moving was because of the gambling addiction or were you manipulated into thinking it was something else? No, I knew it was. I knew it was a gambling addiction. And had you talked about it or was it something you just knew inside? I mean, so much money I couldn't hide it. It was just, yeah. It was just. And do you tell your friends and family or do you protect him? No, I don't say anything. Yeah, that's what I was. Like literally. That's what I was so. Bucky's going to come break your legs type situation or is it? No, I was always just good about my good about my payments. And I mean, just got to a point where I ended up stopping, but everything was so backed up now that I was just kind of like, and I was in such a bad place where kind of needed,

it was kind of like the, we had so much equity in the house. It was kind of like, I just wanted to clear everything. And you become addicted to keeping a secret. Yes. So that's what she, I want you to talk, but that's what people need to understand is wherever there's an alcoholic or an addict, there's a codependent and sometimes they're just as sick, if not sick. Yeah. So now I'm just contributing to the disease because I'm not saying anything. I'm letting everything happen. And I kept thinking like, if I say anything, my life's going to fall apart. But my life was a fucking mess. You know what I mean? So it doesn't matter. I think I had this false sense of reality that if I say something, something bad is going to happen. But I was already living in disaster, you know, so it didn't matter. But, well, well, I'll stop and then I'll keep going

into our criminal house. And then when I ended up like putting my foot down. So we actually moved to our house and things were still getting bad. And they were going to worse. And I thought, maybe if I have a baby, it'll get better. You know, I kept thinking, like, maybe if we have a kid, he'll get sober. I kept thinking of all these. A lot of people think better about, too. So this is probably helping a lot of people. Yeah. A lot of variables thinking that, okay, if we bring a kid in the mix, he'll have to get sober because we'll have a kid, we'll be so busy. That didn't happen. And it got to the point where I was so close to having the baby. And I said, there's no fucking way. I'm going to have this kid by myself. Like, it had just

gotten so bad. That's when you were taking a ton of Adderall. You were drinking like a fifth of vodka like a day practically. I mean, it was in front of you? No, I would go to sleep. I was super pregnant. I was exhausted. I would go to sleep in the room. And he would be in the office, like up all night drinking by himself.

He'd like go down to the liquor store in a hoodie and then come back. And I was like, I remember one day he came in. It's like, really sad. He came in and I was super pregnant. And he kind of started crying. And he's like, fuck, like, you're like really pregnant. Like, I don't even barely remember like you being pregnant. Like you're about to have a baby.

And I'm like, yep. This is me. It's really, it's like really, hearing you talk about, it's really, it's really sad. But it's, it's your addiction. And I think that it's helped so many people who are listening that have addiction. I mean, it's, it's, it's a true disease. I mean, it's, it's super cunning, baffling and powerful. But it also, again, it's, we've made, you know, we've cleared the wreckage.

But it's also, it's, it's hard to hear the damage that we do because, again, is it's such a selfish and self-centered disease where you don't really realize a lot of this is happening. because where Ashley's about to go is, I was actually on the first floor at Hogue Hospital why she was giving birth to Delilah on the fourth floor. He was in detox when I had Delilah. I had to AWOL him. So I...

What does AWOL mean? Like, basically, AWOL is basically where you take him out without him being cleared. So he hadn't been cleared yet in detox. I needed... Not AWOL, babe. It's AMA. I had an AMA.

Right, you leave against medical advice. And so long story short is, was in detox for 48 hours. Ashley's water broke. I got the, like I was sleeping, you know, all you do when you're coming off of that much Adderon and stuff you just sleep for days. And so then I got woken up and then like your wife's coming into the hospital.

She's going to be up to the fourth floor. So I actually was sober. I mean, you know, coming up there for the most part. For the most part. Which is heavily detoxing. Heavily detoxing off of like tons of otterol drinking. And you're like, shut the fuck up. I'm about to squeeze out.

Oh, you have a bad idea. vagina, you little bitch. Michael is complaining about how sleep deprived you know. Oh, I cannot even. So I call them because I tell them. I'm like, I just want to let you guys know. I'm about to have a fucking baby any day now. Like my mom and coming to town. Now my mom knows because I told my mom I'm like, I don't know what to do. Like I'm going to have this baby. Jason needs to go to detox. And I remember calling his parents. His parents were like shocked. Like what? What do you mean he's in detox? I'm like, well, I'm about to have a baby and he's in detox. And this is what's happening. And I remember calling them and telling them like, I'm in triage. I'm about to have the baby. And they're like, the guy on the phone.

Can you just let him sleep for a few more hours? I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, get his ass upstairs. I'm about to have a baby right now. He can wake up? Like, oh, can you just let him sleep a little longer? I'm like, no. So he gets up and comes up.

He gets up, comes up. And I remember we were both really emotional because he was like sober, thank God, for the birth of Delilah. But he was just like exhausted. And only it lasted about five, six days. And then because I didn't actively arrest the disease and get stabilized, I went back out for about six months.

And that's what's really important, too, that I want to touch a topic on because, yeah, because of the fact that I did pull him out of detox, he didn't go back to residential. He didn't actually get the support that he needed. So he ended up using again after like a week. What do you mean you went back out? Like you went back using. Meaning back to using. So how are you using if you just had a baby?

Are you in the same household? Yes. Yeah. I had a brand new baby. Well, he just was basically spent. Yeah. So basically I went to, I was in detox, went and watched. to be born. What I should have done is I should have went back into a program because so I didn't

actively arrest a disease or get stabilized, meaning I went back to the house. This was had five, six days of sobriety, no support system, you know, no therapy, no, you know, no psychiatry. Which sounds impossible for anyone. It really is. And again, part of, she just had the kid and I was able to kind of like this mask it all, you know, and ended up going out for another six months until I actually was intervened on by my, one of our dear friends, Ashley, my parents. And it was kind of like the biggest relief, though, is because even though I wanted to detox that time, still nobody really knew what was going on. I mean, maybe five, six people.

And then when I actually went to treatment. This was seven months when Delo was about seven months old. It was not everybody knew. And it was crazy because it was kind of like God, it's amazing how God works and brings humility to the situation. So there's people that were coming through the hospital doing tours. are all people that I used to work with or that worked for me. And it was just a very humbling experience. And it was kind of like this,

a big weight that was lifted off my shoulders of like having to live this, this lie. I mean, I'll never forget. I flew out to Washington, D.C., and I got the Voice of Recovery Award from Congress. And I was,

I did not have eight years of sobriety. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Not Congress, but it's from voices of recovery. I mean, out in Washington,

D.C. It's, again, that's what your disease does. I think I had like 30 days of sobriety at that time. Do they let you keep that award? I need to give it back to love. We need to give it back. But can you imagine living with that like shame?

So on top of it, like he's receiving this award, I'm here knowing that he's lying about everything. So now I'm already resentful. And you have postpartum. And I'm and I had a baby that's colloquy that literally cries for six months straight. It was hell. And yeah, I remember I got so nervous. So basically you're in like the twilight zone. You know, I hadn't slept.

in so long. I had no idea what the fuck I was doing with Delilah. I was in a trauma lifestyle anyway. And on top of it, she's crying. And I'm sure that's because I was so stressed around my whole pregnancy that when I brought her into this world, she was probably like, let me back. Like, this is not safe. You know, like, I'm scared. I ended up having her. And then close to seven months, I remember, I remember just Jason. Like, he was, he was never abusive or anything like that. But I just remember being very nervous because he would pick her up and hold her. And I thought, fuck this is not good if he's drunk he goes in there and picks her up what if he drops her yeah they're like fragile at that so fragile the open fontanelle area i like oh my god i can't even

talk about that area it's so delicate so it's just it's just scary and i think that's when i finally because you know you're like six months in so you're like a little more alert of the situation and you're like all right this is not going to happen anymore like this was the yeah but you also were like putting your head on my chest to make sure i still breathing yeah it was bad there's so much trauma like i mean because when i the amount that we I'm just lucky you didn't die from the usage. You know what I mean?

Just from heart attacks or whatever. But I remember just waking up in her head. I'd be like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm just making sure you're alive. Yeah.

You mentioned suicide. Is this before or after? Way, well, so the actual attempts were before Ashley, but the suicidal ideations, all, they came,

like, I mean, when I use, like, it's not, I'm in a horrible place. There's no, what is, what can you explain that

to anyone that doesn't understand what that means? Suicidal ideations. It's just basically the thought processes of wanting to kill yourself and and kind of like planning, planning out what that would look like, just being suicidal. So you actually like think of like ways that you would do it? And the drugs enhance that.

Yes. And so again, is when I use, I'm, there's, this is the way I explain my use, right? It's at first drinking and using was fun. It became a lifestyle and then it became a way of survival. So when I actually go and use again, like if I'm using, it's not like, hey, let's go, let's go have a beer and let's go watch the races or let's go. He's like, Maybe that would work for a week or two, but I mean, like, when I'm out and I'm drinking, like, I'm the type of person that will drink, like, a fifth before I go out with you and be like, all right, bro, let's have a couple beers, even though I'm already, like, there's, there's no fun left in it. Like, you're, like, it's pretty blacked out before even.

Correct. It's, and I'm, I got to be in, I'm in a miserable state of existence if I'm using or drinking. Like, there's, I'm at that. I look at it if you, like, compared it to, again, cancer is its own thing. But if, like, alcoholism was looked at as a cancer. Like, I'm a stage four alcoholic. Like, when I, if I'm drinking, it's because I'm trying to escape. and I'm trying to get as far, far away as I can.

As you guys know, we just interviewed Nicole of Ring Concierge. And she is so major and she is so knowledgeable when it comes to buying any kind of jewelry or diamond. I am so inspired by her story because she's really a resource when it comes to the diamond industry. She's a founder that believes in transparency and it's such a male dominated industry. So to be able to actually deal with a woman who's so transparent and totally like gets the style and the taste of what you want is a home run, in my opinion. You've probably seen her through

a lot of celebrities and influencers. She's like the ultimate luxury jewelry designer. And what I like about her, especially after meeting her in person, is that you can tell that she has a real style about her and she gets that each person is unique. So she's going to work with you to create the most beautiful engagement ring or wedding ring or wedding band, whatever it is you're looking for. I'm even looking for like a specific bracelet and a necklace and I've like gone back and forth with her over text and she really listens to what you want. She's redefining the idea of luxury and fine jewelry for a new generation of women. You want to buy your own freaking ring? Nicole's about it.

The best part is you can keep building your collections. She has stacking rings, bracelets, necklaces. And of course you can also go to her episode, turn it up in front of your significant other and give them a little hint hint, nudge. I'm sure you've seen this, but you can find ring concierge. on Instagram at ring concierge or on their website at ringconcierge.com. That's R-A-N-G-C-O-N-C-I-E.com. And I am so excited for you guys because she gave the listeners of the Skinny Confidential an exclusive 15% off code for all fine jewelry at Ring concierge with code skinny ring. So you're going to go to ringconcierge.com and use code skinny for 15% off. Use code Skinny Ring. And again, go listen to that

episode if you want to know anything and everything about jewelry and diamonds. So after seven months, you got sober. You went to treatment. Yeah. You had an intervention on you. I'll never forget. We had to like buy you booze just to get you to go. Can I ask you something about treatment?

Because it's like, you know, I have that video. There's a lot of, I think especially Orange County, I mean, this area that we've all grown up in Orange County, San Diego, L.A. There's what I would call like the fancy rehabs. Like eventually, I think when your sister got so. were like, it was not fancy anymore. Like, this was a place that you just, you don't want to be, right? It's like, you know, you couldn't put this place on television.

Right. Of all the places you went, was there a certain type of facility that ended up helping the most? That's a good question. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that you bring up a really good question. And I think, look, not to diminish any of the ones that are like high in, but I think some of them, it's like you're going to having sushi and like, it's, you know,

like, finally when Lauren's sister got sober, like it was. You're right. Yeah, yeah. There was, there was no glamour when, when Faye finally. got sober. Like, it was not a glamorous place. No, you bring up a really, like you bring up a phenomenal point, and that's been the struggle in the trial in our own industry is, look, treatment does work in recovery as possible. But unfortunately, for me personally, there's out of the, let's call it 15,500 facilities,

I'd refer to about 10 to 15% because there's about the other 80%, 80%, it's not even, it's not there's, there's probably a good chunk that are, there's 20% that are bad that don't have the right practices, the right policies, procedures, the right doctors, the right psychiatrist. I mean, it's just, it's run and operated bad. And then there's others that just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're, they're, they cut corners. They do different things. And again, that's just my experience, right? Is take it or leave it. But, and I've been, I've worked in the space for a long time. I've seen a lot of facilities and there is, it is very, it's so individualized. It's not like one program's, this one plush place is

going to be better for her sister than this one nonplush, more indigenous type of facility that's run by the county. I mean, it's, it different strokes, different folks. And it honestly, it really comes down to the assessment. I think it's, it's very clinically incentivized and we've learned that. So when somebody actually goes and goes into treatment, it's so important that they're properly diagnosed, right? And I mean, I think that's one of the biggest things that so many people are misdiagnosed when they go into treatment. You know, when they do these biosec socials and get a full assessment of an individual, oftentimes you're getting somebody being schizophrenic. You're getting somebody that's showing signs of bipolar or sleep deprivation and you're getting

you're misdiagnosing them when they're not even properly stabilized. So they're actually not getting the best type of care. And so I think, again, it's so important in the beginning stages that it's when you look for facilities again is, it is important to have, make sure, look at the medical director, look at the doctor, look at his credentials, look, is he an ASAM certified doctor, addiction specialty in medicine, you know, the psychiatrist, what is her background, what is their history, how long have they been in this, you know, is it. And that's like one the things is looking at all the staff, look at how long they've been in the space, look at the turnover rate. Like actually, when you go to a place, I highly recommend that you tour it. And

And when you are in there, you are actually able to, when you sign in and you're, because you're signing away the hippocompliancy thing, when you're doing a tour, pull a client aside and say, hey, how's this program? You know, do you like, do you like, do you like, you know, your research. It's just like if you had cancer, you're not just going to go, I'm going to go, I'm going to go to check out this place on the corner. Or, you know, I'm going to go to Dr. Google and go to the highest paid Google search. It's like, do the due diligence, do the research around it and go in there. But it's like, for me, any place that, like, I send a family member, a loved one, friends and stuff like that is, is I do the due diligence. and I put my, I see, feel, touch it. And I go over there and I see how many times is a doctor, is a doctor running the case or is he handed it off to a nurse practitioner?

Like, there's so much information that you can really get. And it's, again, it's a multifaceted disease. It is very complex. And it's so important to get versed on it. So people that are struggling with people that have addiction, like in this case with Ashley, like my biggest advice for people in Ashley's shoes is to get educated. Yeah. That's why I asked. You need to have a resource podcast.

I that was really like there's even that like bit of information I feel like you should have a resource podcast for for people who are struggling to go to listen the reason I asked the question and I'm basing it like being ignorant to those type of facilities and places but I and I try to consider myself somebody that does research and is educated but even if even someone like me who's looking and is curious like I still don't know right so I think there's many people that just have no fucking clue you know what I was just not talked about right I think if I was using like me myself. And I wasn't ready to get sober.

And I'm just being really self-aware. I would want to go to these boogie places because it's like, oh, while I quote-unquote get sober, I can get all of these different things. So do you think that sometimes people are going to these boogie recovery rehabs to just, I put it in quotes, get sober, but not really get sober? I mean, yeah, there's people that go to treatment. and they're not in a place.

I mean, again, you're talking to a guy that went to date, just went to 13 or 14 different places, right? And there's many times, I went to treatment in Hawaii. I surfed all the time. Like, you know, there's times where, and again, the treatment was fine, but it was also my motive wasn't to get sober. And everybody is in a different point.

And, you know, so I think there's, when people are going to treatment, I think there's people that are really going there, and they're accustomed to a different type of lifestyle and they want those types of amenities, whether it's a sea level executive, entertainer, whatever it may be. There's just a lifestyle that goes towards that and for a comfortability.

And there's other people that obviously want to take advantage of that situation. But for me, I went to treatment. I mean, I went to some nice places and I went to some very normal places. Can you say a name of the best place that you would recommend if someone's struggling? Or are you not allowed to say names? I'm more than happy to do that. But it's more, it's so individual. It's because like if somebody, what Mike's going through, it was completely different one,

and Ashley might be going through. Okay. It's different. If there's not one, that's the biggest thing is there's not a cookie cutter program. There's not, no, there's, it is, there's a really good primary eating disorder. There's a really good adolescent program. There's a really good, you know, mental health. There's still diagnosis programs that people don't realize.

Maybe a more like tangible or practical question is like if you were going to start doing the research and try, like, say you're somebody that has a loved one that you want to get help for. Where would you start like just? Well, we actually have, we actually started a nonprofit coming up on two years and we gave away almost a million dollars in scholarships this last year. So, but one of our things is creating the most safe and trusted environment for people. people that are struggling with mental health and or addiction. So you can come to us and we can help you go through, navigate the situation that you're in to best point you in the right direction. We're not affiliated with any facilities, anything like that.

But we actually have clinicians and case managers that will help direct you to the place that it could be the most appropriate, help you get educated, help you get versed on that. Because, again, I think it's, I want to point this out there. Like I always say, Dr. Google, because people will go there and they go to these glorified business cards being these websites that get, you know, it's highest SEOs. Business cards?

I want to say, I used to have an agency, and I don't know if I've ever talked about this, but we got approached by a lot of facilities, like treatment facilities, right? Trying to get us to run traffic or to run SEO to like rank them. And I always felt strange. Like, we never actually ended up doing it because it felt strange to kind of use marketing practices to rank facilities. That makes sense.

But I think to your point, that's what I'm, that's what I point is. A lot of people just go on Google and they see these things that populate because they're maybe doing marketing practices. So my advice would be is talk to people. Everybody knows somebody that's. gone through addiction. I mean, and if you haven't, again, is ask your, ask a doctor, ask, you know, friends, ask your church group, ask some type of, there's, it's like a degree of separation to find somebody that's gone to treatment. Plug into a meeting. Plug into a meeting, but it's,

it's asking people that have had success with that and sharing your story for relatability and connectivity. And then, you know, looking them up and going there. And then again, going over everything that we went over, looking at the turnover rate, looking at the credentials, looking at the doctor, looking how long they've been around, look at what they treat, and ask the questions, how are you going to best serve or, you know, will you treat somebody with my conditions? And go in there and have the conversation with them. And again, is, I wish it was just as simple, like, and that's what we're hoping to make Red Songbird Foundation for everybody that struggles with addiction.

What's the Instagram if someone wants to go check it out? Red Songbird Foundation. Perfect. Yeah. So go there. And again, is we have scholarship applications every month. So people don't have the means to get the help that they need. We are here to provide that.

And the other piece of that is for someone who feels that they've been an abler or wants Al-Anon or something like that, is there somewhere that you went after he went and got sober after those seven months that you had been postpartum? So I went to like the family program, which is basically just like a few meetings at his treatment facility. And that was where I started plugging back into Al-Anon. But I will say, which is so interesting. and this is probably what a lot of people do,

but I actually was going to Al-Anon when he was using, and I was lying in Al-Anon. So I went there still pretending like my husband was sober, living this wonderful life, which is like the worst thing ever. That's when I was even the sickest.

So that's what I'm saying. That's why we're saying it's like two sides of a coin because Jason's over here telling his story, pretending like everything's fine. I'm here in meetings now lying about the fact that my husband's, he's sober, blah, blah, blah, blah, and not really telling my, true story. So I'm not getting any help. I'm just super sick, just as sick as he is.

When he finally went into treatment and I finally went to one of my first Al-Anon meetings, I went to an all-women's meeting. And I remember standing up and telling my story as if I had been to a meeting for the first time ever. And it was like freaking the heavens were parting. I just remember this huge weight lifted off my shoulder and all these women coming up to me afterwards and being like, we're here a few, we'll give you all this list of numbers, you know, just having like a full support system. And it was the first time in my life where I felt like the shame started to being lift off me. You know what I mean? Like I started to feel less shame. There really needs to be a program though for like the shit that she went through. There's no reason that she should be, I should

have got different treatment than she did. There's no way. I should be able to go to a facility and get so much fucking treatment because he's over there getting treatment and help. And here I am living with regret, regret, trauma, all this new baby. I mean, there's so much, you know what I mean? It really needs to be, because there is places out there that help like with a week long or a two week long intensive, but there really needs to be something for the families. Yeah. Start it. Yeah. Him and her facility. I mean, honestly, it would be incredible. Just having like a loved one to be able to go and just get. It's really the rest. Could I use it if Michael annoyed the fuck out of me?

I could just go for like a week just to take a break from him. The resentment facility. The resentment foundation. Come release your resentments. So once you get sober, I have to ask you, what made you decide, and we talked about this a little off air, to do the hills again? Well, it was originally the whole thought process of going back on. So again, just for timeline of everything, is relap, or go to, go to treatment or go to detox. Delilah's born, relapse, get about seven, eight months, make the decision to go on the hills for the first time. And that was because, again, as I feel like God was giving us an opportunity for me, it was almost kind of like, hey, this could be a cool opportunity to show what recovery looks

like again. Because again, as I don't discredit everything I've learned over those last 10 years, right? A lot of this was documented through all the different television appearances. Yeah, well, from 2010 to Delilah being born, TV was, I wasn't on TV anymore. So there was a gap between that. But again, as I don't take away anything that I'd gone through, it's like, you know, those fall downs were just added experiences for me. And I thought it'd be a great opportunity to have my story and Ashley's story to be able to be like, hey, look, here's the alcoholic side of it. Here's the codependent side of it. And we can share and we can kind of navigate and have this opportunity. And that's really why we did it because honestly at the

beginning, I was like, I don't really know that we want to do it. And so once we actually made that decision to do it, again, is I was not in the right frame of mind. You were newly sober. Newly sober. And I had a lot of my own insecurities that I was dealing with, just with the way I looked, with weight. And I mean, by this time, I mean, I got so bloated. I was like 220 pounds and just in the war shape, physically, just mentally. And it probably, wasn't. To your point, it probably wasn't. I think there was more of like an ego thing of like, this will be really good for you guys to be able to go do and with the right intentions, honestly. And we should go do it. But internally after looking, it was like, you know, I had a lot more work

I needed to do. And again, thank God, the relapse because of the time that I'd had, the support system that I'd had set up, it lasted a day. And I was able to hop right back on. But it was also an opportunity to be able to walk through that and to give people some relatability and some connectivity that like we are all human and stuff does happen. Again, is I don't think relapse is a part of recovery. I think it's actually a lack thereof. And there's a lot of things that I could have done differently

to prevent that. But again, as I was not in a place to talk or open up or share those types of things. And the more I'm doing, like the more I've, you know, after just having celebrated two years of sobriety on December 17,

I can just see that I'm just like, it's cool to hear when I came in. You're just like, you seem like you're just become more patient. And it's just like, I just really changed the way I look at it. life in the way I can be in a good place. I will say, since a fan of the show

from the beginning, you have a lot of charisma, you seem very secure, you seem very chill, so do you. Thank you. And I think that you almost had to maybe go through all this to get to the other side. I mean, this is a real complication. We get a lot of people that come in here and some of them are great

and some of them are a bunch of... I'm just kidding. We do this a lot. And like, both of you, like, you have an immediate charisma and likability. I mean, that's called And you have an interesting story, both of you. And I think it would probably, it's a shame if that light is dimmed, right, with all these other things. Yeah. Because this is clearly working much better.

Yeah. 100%. What is it like being on the hills with 27 different personalities and demands and all these different things with everything that you guys are already dealing with? How is that? That's a lot of personalities. I was exhausting. Then be pregnant. Yeah, I don't know.

Fuck. I was like, oh my gosh. I mean, literally, they kind of pictured me to be a little bit more of a square than I was, though. Because I was having a lot of fun. It's just they kind of made me like- You didn't seem like a square. You seemed like you're pregnant. It's a lot. It was a lot.

Yeah. What are you supposed to be doing? Like, yeah. I don't know. It's like, it was a lot. This last season was really hard. I went to about at 7 o'clock. So, I mean, well, and you're filming to like 11 o'clock.

I remember some nights. I'm like, I got to go to fucking bed. Oh, they would get my worst side. Tired. Yeah. Well, yeah. And then you have people screaming in your ear, not wearing fucking pants. You're like...

Dr. Dr. It's like a lot. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. And Ashley, I mean, I will say, I think she got kind of a shitty edit on some of the stuff. Because Ashley's a, I mean, very outgoing, very fun. She's like, you know, they kind of would make her look like this. Like, even though scenes were, like, totally would cut it to make it look like she was like, just overly annoyed when it's like, that was like, way later down the night.

You know what I mean? And how that... My fucking grandma French twist and Heidi's, like, screaming in the back. And I'm thinking, really? Like, you guys? come on. I actually was having fun. I think the audience is savvy enough to know, though, that there's edits.

Like, I immediately liked you. I mean, I like you too. I mean, I like, uh, I didn't like that edit. I don't know. I know. I know, but you know, I mean, we understand the business. I mean, we all live here. You think about people that are in Wisconsin

and they're sitting there, like, commenting on your thing. Like, you're such a fucking square. Is it weird when the show goes live, when people go to your Instagram and start giving me. opinions about stuff they don't know about. It's kind of funny.

Yeah. Yeah, for you. I mean, well, the first season was really hard. I mean, Jason was like, Ashley, like, you got to stop. It's really ridiculous because I was obsessing over it. I would try to preparing. I was just like, I was trying to get through the rodeo. Yeah, and she, but, I mean, because you have to remember, I started this in 2005.

Yes, you don't give a fuck what anyone says. I could give two shit. And I'm sitting there like, like, because she was getting, like, it literally got to a point. And that's where like the coat and like the whole coat of, like the, that whole coat type of thing came, like untreated codependency, not just for me, but for herself, right? Because now people are saying stuff. So it's really affecting her. Yeah. And so it, that became a whole another thing where, again, it's, I mean, it's outside my wheelhouse. But I mean, I was trying to give this best insight and best directions as I could with this because I'm like, you've got to just

fucking step back. Like, if people have the time to say this shit, like, you're taking, you're taking up rent in their head. Like, you're not thinking about them, you know? I realize that, though, whenever I give advice on that, it's one of those things that you have to just go through to get to the other side. Like now someone could say anything to me. They've said it all. Same. And I'm just like, eh.

Like, you know, but when you first happens to you, you're like, oh my God. And I can't even imagine being on a television show. I'm not on a television show. But like, you almost have to like, she almost had to probably go through feeling like upset and like jumbled. And then to get to the other side of not giving a fuck. Yeah. I feel a lot better now.

I think the biggest thing too is once, once that first season happened, it was like, okay, then the second season, I felt a lot more comfortable. But now I'm pregnant, so I'm just like hormonal and irritable. And then people are saying shit about Jason. And that's when I was like, oh, no, no, no. Yeah, like Mama Bear came out for sure. So where are you guys at with the show not being renewed? I'm so sad.

What are you guys doing and working on and putting your energy towards now? Well, I launched a hair accessory line. I know. I want to hear all about that. Your hair looks beautiful. Thank you in September. And so I'm actually working on my second. collection, so that I'm hoping will come out this year. And we're maybe going to do a podcast. I'm

blogging right now, our whole entire journey. I see it for you guys. We are moving cross country. So that's going to be really exciting. We're just ready to have some land and slow down and just enjoy our kids, you know? I kind of feel like as much as it's sad that we're not going to be able to be on the hills anymore. We're still very good friends with a lot of cast members, so I know we'll be in touch. But I think the biggest thing is that I feel, really happy with the way things ended and like the conclusion of the show because now we're on to, you know, focusing more on our kids and that's really what we want. No, I think everything happens for a reason.

You know, again, it was great opportunity to be back and, and cool if it happened. If it didn't, you know, it wasn't like what dictated us. We didn't go on the show as this was our career. We already had paths and stuff prior to going back on the show. And for me is obviously I want to carry out and continue helping build and grow this foundation. You know, I've been on the board for Los Angeles mission for many years and always been just very philanthropic and wanted to give back. And I serve with Nancy Davis on cure addiction now as well.

And so really doing doing a lot more work in the research and working with a lot of doctors and different areas of addiction and actually doing studies and white papers and stuff on that. And like I said, supporting the foundation and then doing a lot of advocacy work. You know, I do a lot of speaking and stuff around addiction and mental health and putting together, you know, some panels actually. We just started doing speaking together where we talked to some companies about addiction and codependency, which has been really, really cool. And talk to companies and stuff. we're actually doing one with Terry Bradshaw's daughter on the Sunday.

Cool. It's coming up. Her brother had an overdose. So we're going to go out and do some awareness around that. Brandy Ledford, myself, Hillary, some of our board members and stuff. So do a lot of speaking engagements.

But for me, too, is like with this move, it's like being born and raised in, you know, California, specifically Orange County and Laguna. It's a, it's a challenge.

You know, this is all I know down here. But I'm also really excited to, to Ashley's point, to have a change of pace and to really embrace. and to really embrace this time with my kids, it's not like I'm going to go retire right now, but why my kids want to be with me and want to hang out with me

and I can have the most influence on them, you know, in 10 years, when they 12 years and then they don't want to, like, you know, I can pick back, work back up and stuff like that. So I'm also doing the real estate investment stuff, and we have some fun projects that we're working on that are, again, in the real estate side of things. So I think it's really just, it's right now we're excited about kind of having a little bit less on our plate and kind of really just seeing how this goes,

but really embracing the time with the kids and with one another. It's an opportunity for us to grow even further. You know, we moved from L.A. to Austin. And I will say we came here this week, obviously, to do a bunch of podcasts and stuff. And I looked at Michael last night. And I just said, I can't wait to get home. And it's nothing against L.A.

It's that Austin, for us, is so grounding. And that's the word I've realized. Like, it's just, it's not even that it's, like, slower. It's just more nature and, like, just more focused on things I actually want to put my energy towards. But listen, I think at some point. if you're curious about a big city and you haven't been in one, like it is a, it is an interesting and maybe positive experience to come and, you know, live in a big city. It doesn't have to be LA.

It could be New York. Any big city, Chicago, whatever. But I just don't feel it's a natural way to live, right? And my entire life, I felt like I've been called to a place outside of a place like this. And I just like, you know, it was kind of like in a weird way. Like when we came here, it's like, yeah, we're here. Like, it's briefcase mentality. like we're working, we're not really going out, but we always find ourselves wanting to leave.

Right. I'm like, that's weird that we want to leave the place we live so often. And I just think like it's a lot of it's because it's so artificial, right? This is not how humans evolved to be in these like massive structures with all this shit everywhere. Our point is, is you guys, I think are going to love it. I'm so excited to watch your next journey. I wouldn't be mad if you did a Tennessee reality show with Justin and Kristen. Who knows?

Yeah, who knows? I would love to see that. I also wouldn't be mad at a podcast. You guys both are very good on the mic. Where can everyone find your hair collab, your Instagram, Jason's Instagram, you shared your foundation's Instagram, but maybe one more time just for the audience.

So my hair collection is Ashley Waller gold collection. It's at basic extra.com slash Ashley Waller. You can also see it on my Instagram at Ashley Waller. And then you can click my link there. And you can see our whole journey about our lives and everything we've been going through moving across the country. Gone. That's it.

You're good. Keep going on you. Thank you. Yeah, if you want to find out more about myself, just go to Jason Waller on Instagram. We can go to Jason Waller.com. The foundation is Red Songbird Foundation. So if you are a loved one is struggling, please don't hesitate to reach out and we're happy to provide some insight and direction.

And honestly, if you guys have any more questions, seriously, DM us. We go through them all the time. We have so many people that reach out to us that talk to us about their struggles, their family struggles, and we try to reach out to them as much as possible. So Jason, Ashley, come back anytime. I could have gone even longer. There was so many questions we had. We normally don't even go that long.

You guys were so good on the mic. We normally go like 45 minutes to an hour. Normally, get the fuck out of it. Thank you guys. Thank you. Congratulations on two years. I think the story's going to help a lot of people, honestly. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Crem de la Crem. Do you want to win some Ashley Waller beauty clips? They have the prettiest limited edition hair accessories. They are so cute. They're pieces that you can wear in your hair for everyday wear or you can wear them to weddings.

Very pretty pieces. She is offered to do a little giveaway with you guys. It's called the Gold Collection. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic and make sure you're following Ashley on Instagram. With that, we'll see you next time.