The Bossticks - The Points Guy - Brian Kelly On Travel Hacks, Credit Card Reward Points, & Credit Scores, How To Fly First Class On A Budget

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

#471: On today's episode we are joined by Brian Kelly also popularly known as The Points Guy. Brian joins the show to discuss the best travel hacks that people can take advantage of now. We also discuss the best credit cards to get to build credit and aquire points for travel rewards.  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) Produced by Dear Media 

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And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you alone for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. There were some other points blogs, but they were pretty, and they were pretty popular, but I would remember because they weren't monetizing then. Blogging's hard.

So the people would only update once or twice a week, and I remember being at my desk, being like, I want more of this content. I started blogging, and a couple months in, it's things started to go viral, which I didn't really understand at the time. but in the spring of 2011 is when my life changed because a friend from college was like, dude, you're an idiot. You're writing about the platinum card all day long and you're just linking directly to Amex.

He's like affiliate marketing. If you use my company's link, we'll pay you $300 per approval. And I was like, what? Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. That clip was from our guest of the show today. Brian Kelly, also known as the points guy. This has been a long requested, long overdue episode.

So many of you guys want to know about. travel hacks about credit card points, about which credit cards to get, about debt, about all these things. And who better than the points guy himself, Brian Kelly? We had a ton of fun talking to this guy. It was one of our favorite guests that we've had on recently. And we covered a lot of ground. So for those of you that are wondering, how do I travel? How do I get business class? How do I get upgrades? How do I use points? Which credit cards are the best? How do I stay out of debt? What about my credit score? All of these things are in this episode. You know, and I use Brian, And Brian, if you're listening, this is a compliment. I think about people all the time online

creating content and people that do it in such a smart way. And I think the problem that so many people run into when they're starting to figure out what should I create online is they think about so many different things. How big and broad can this thing be? And I talked about early days and not to take any credit away from Brian because obviously he completely executed and just crushed it with the points guy, which he'll get into. But this is a guy that started and said, hey, there is a niche here where people want to understand more about credit cards, more about the right credit cards, more about travel hacks, and more about which of these travel hacks are applicable to him at the time as a consumer. So he went on this long journey and created the points guy and basically shared what a lot

of people wanted to know. What's the best airline program? How do you keep your credit score high? What are the best credit cards? How do I use my points? And he exploited this whole area of business and created this whole area of content that has just exploded, right? And it's a massive category. And I think during the pandemic, the Points Guy was probably one of the biggest resources that we look to for travel restrictions, how to travel, where to travel, what to do all of that. So I just think it's a really good example of somebody picking a niche subject zoning in and then making an absolute killing on the business side and making it a huge category that so many people want to know about. Started very focused and obviously brought in into this massive travel brand. With that, Brian Kelly, the Points guy, live on the Skinny Confidential him and her show. Here we go.

This is the skinny confidential, him and her. My husband is the most anal traveler you've ever seen. And this is a fun fact for the audience. We have been together for like a million years. And never once, never once have I booked a flight. And we're huge travelers. I've never booked a flight. I've never booked a hotel.

And this is not because I don't, like I refuse to. It's because he has the strategy so down that if I even try to get into his process, he doesn't like it. But tell the truth, are you the anal type of traveler that gets their three hours in advance? At periods of time, I have been,

especially now with a kid. Because here's the thing, I don't mind necessarily the flight. And I mind all the shit at the airport. Yeah. I mean, it is, and especially with her, like we lay the suitcase out,

try to be methodical. And the next thing you know, there's like six more, and it's a whole thing. And like, I have to carry all the shit. It's just stressful. Tell the truth.

Is she ever able to carry on? No. You've, no. You've never, if you and I dated, I am your worst goddamn nightmare. I once went all the way to Venice, Italy, not knowing where I was going and didn't even know where I was going until I stepped off the plane. Well, I'll tell the story. So we, we, we, no, we can get into this, but I just to give you some context of how, like,

in the clouds she is with this stuff, at one, we were dating. And I thought, man, this is going to be like super romantic. I'm going to get so many points. I booked a trip to go to Venice. And I didn't tell her where we were going. I said, pack your bags. We're going to this place. and you know took it to the nines booked all the flights and I kept like looking over for her to like look at the ticket and be like we're going to Venice or like you know look at the screen or look at the thing when you board the plane or even listen to the fucking announcements she didn't know until we landed and they started speaking in Italian she's like we're in Italy I'm like we've been flying for 30 hours.

Why is our Uber a boat? I think it's just because I just trust him so much and if you and I were dating it would be even worse. Can you like I would just be. Wait so I want to know when you were on that flight. what, eight hour flight? Like, where did you think you were going? No idea. I didn't think about it. But you were so in love. You were just like, I'm just, I feel like I'm so easy going about travel that I'm just like, whatever. I didn't even think about it. I'm in the corner like this staring like waiting for the moment and just it never happened. It's like sitting there for 14 hours just like staring over and being like, she's going to notice now. Okay. So I want to get into everything about you. People are so excited that you're coming on the podcast. How did you get into this in the first place? How did you see the white space?

Well, I mean, I got into points in the 90s. I was always that nerdy kid. So I was born in 1983. So when I was seven, my parents got like a huge IBM computer. And I remember just like teaching myself DOS, which was like pre Windows, right? You'd have to do like little syntax commands. You know, I was on the internet in like 1991 when you used to have to install a modem into your computer, plug it into a phone line, you know. So in like 95, my dad got a job for a startup and he was traveling and working from home. And I was a computer. was and he's like, shit, Brian, I have to book travel. I have no idea how to do it. And that was the year travelosity came out. And it was so easy to do. He thought it was super hard. So I was charging him $10 or reservations for something that took me 30 seconds. So that was like my first job in 1995. Fast forward. Like in that winter, he was like, okay, I have all these frequent flyer miles. If you can figure out how to book them, I'm one of four kids. He's like the six of us, instead of taking a basic trip, you know, we grew up outside of Philly, you know, to the shore or whatever, Orlando, he's like, you know, wherever you want to plan it, we can go. So I booked us to the

Cayman Islands because I had just read the firm by John Grisham and it was like set in the Cayman Islands. I was just like this precocious little kid at age 12 booking our family of six to an international destination. It was the most amazing trip. And then so that was my dad and I's bonding. You know, he would travel, miss my basketball games, but every year he gave me his points and I would book our family trip to Barbados, you know, whatever. So never in a million years did I think that that would become my job. But when I look back on it, all the things that I love in life, like as a kid, I was a voracious writer.

You know, they'd say, write a short story and come into school and I'd write like a 30-page book. I've always had this imagination and love to travel. So it kind of makes sense that I am writing about travel and inspiring others to do it now. It just, it wasn't until I got a job at Morgan Stanley in 2007, graduate college. And then all of a sudden I became my dad where I was traveling like crazy. and I was in HR, so I wasn't making a lot of money at Morgan Stanley, but I was running college recruiting, meaning so I would charge, you know, the career fare at Harvard and $20,000 expense

on my credit card. And I called up Amex and was like, can I get points for this? And they were like, yeah, if you pay $95, all of a sudden, the wheels start spinning. And everyone at Morgan Stanley hated expenses because you literally used to have to tape paper receipts and fax them in. It was this most tedious process. But what I figured out was every little slip of paper is free points. So I became the guy in HR that was like, hey, everyone, I'm going to take one for the team and pay for this $50,000 event on my Amex. And people were like, Brian, thank you so much. And I'm like, suckas.

Like, that's literally a free business class trip. So I started, that was like my side hustle at Morgan Stanley was doing all the expenses. And then I was traveling a ton, you know, on. And during the recession in 0708, the travel companies were getting. giving insane bonuses because no one was business traveling. I would get screwed every year I was getting promoted, but they were like, your bonus is not getting laid off,

Brian, come back again, not next year, you're in your 20s, like, and I was so frustrated because being in my 20s, living in Manhattan, I was literally living paycheck to paycheck,

even though I was working on Wall Street. I mean, I would take a subway to JFK and fly Singapore Airlines first class with like $40 in my bank account. Just three points. And I would eat everything on the plane so I wouldn't really have to eat when I land. So I was living this like millionaire's lifestyle, points rich and cash broke is what I used to call it.

So finally my ex at the time was like, you're so good at this point stuff. Why don't you start a side hustle where you know, people pay you to book trips for them. And to me, that was like, oh, I mean, it's fun for me. It's literally like some people sit down to do crossword puzzles. I sit down and figure out how can I fly the Emirates A381st class and go to the Maldives. So I started charging people. So the points guy was never even a blog. It was just like this janky form that you would.

submit, I'm Lauren and I have Amics points. I went to Paris with my three friends. How do I do it? I would email you back and be like, PayPal me 50 bucks each. And then I would just write you detailed instructions like call the airline. This is the flight number. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that so it's kind of like a points travel agent. Kind of like a consultant almost. Kind of, yeah, like a travel. I mean, I was basically a travel agent for points, which didn't exist at the time. And even now, there's only a couple agencies that'll touch points because they don't make money on it. And then a friend in June of 2010, a friend was like, Brian, I'm an SEO expert. I had no idea what SEO was. And he's like, if you start a blog, blogs are all the rage. He's like,

that'll be the most natural way people searching for how do I use these damn amex points. We'll find you. It'll be free advertising. You know, just throw up a blog post every day. You'll get authority in the space. And I was like, and he set me up with my own WordPress blog. And so I was like, okay. And he said, just blog every day. Something good. It doesn't need to be life changing, but consistently all around points, travel, whatever. And he's like, they will come. Trust me. He's like, he was really excited about it too. Well, nobody else was really doing it, huh? There were some other points blogs, but they were pretty and they were pretty popular, but I would remember because they weren't monetizing then. So they would only,

you know, these blogging's hard. So the people would only update once or twice a week. And I remember being at my desk, being like, I want more of this content. And then one day I was like, why don't I fill in that void? And of course, at first you have imposter syndrome where you're like, well, I'm not the biggest expert in the world. So why would I, you know, I started blogging and a couple months in, it's things started to go viral, which I didn't really understand at the time. But, you know, the credibility people were sharing the site like crazy. In the spring of 2011 is when my life changed because a friend from college was like, dude, you're an idiot. You're writing about the platinum card all day long and you're just linking directly to AMX. Like, he's like affiliate marketing.

If you use my company's link. And I was like, no, I don't want to do this. My passion project. He's like, we'll pay you $300 per approval. And I was like, what? You know, because I had that time, I have 40,000 monthly readers, but I'm like doing the small conversion rates in my head. I was like, it doesn't take a whole lot of sign-ups to like fundamentally change the game. And literally, you know, the first month that was like five grand. And I was like, that's almost like I was making maybe 75 salary. And I was like, if I can just do this a little bit smarter. And then it just just took off the New York Times ended up writing a big piece about this points guy. You got a Well, like every credit card company, major credit, travel credit card.

All of them came. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So then it just blew up. So let's go, let's take a step back for a second because I think we're versed in points, but there's so many consumers, listeners, people that are listening to the show that have credit cards, obviously, may not even be aware of what kinds of credit cards they should be using, may not even know how to use points. I get this, even, you know, I'm not an authority in this space. I figured out a few things over the years, but I get questions all the time, like, how do you use points? What are points? What credit cards? What's the best for? this. So maybe taking a stab at one, points how they're used, what they can be used for, how they accumulate. And then two, like maybe listing a couple of cards that you think are just good for people starting out to book travel. We have interviewed the founders of Sakara on our podcast before and they're so major. They are so specific about having everything be organic, plant rich and nutrient dense. And I am just like a huge fan. And I'll tell you why. Not only do they have an incredible meal delivery service that you can get these amazing snacks and breakfasts and dinners and lunches straight to your door. They also have my favorite chlorophyll and beauty

water drops. So the beauty water drops are minerals and then the chlorophyll is just so good for your blood circulation, energy. And what I like to do is take those drops in the morning and add them to my water. I love sexing at my water. This has been something that I have done for the last 10 years, I always like to take water and, like, add something to it. Zaza and I have been growing a little mint leaf plant, so I'll take a bunch of mint, and then I'll put it in my water. I'll add some ginger, and then I'll add chlorophyll drops in there, some beauty water drops in there for minerals, tons of ice, and it's like ready to go. And the minerals and the chlorophyll just give me energy. I love taking it to my workout. You should know Sikara is a wellness company,

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You get 20% off your first order. Sakara.com slash Skinny. Fundamentally, every single dollar you spend, you should be earning points. And the United States is the global mecca for points. I won't go into the nitty-gritty details, but basically, every time you go to a restaurant or to SACs, that merchant's paying Amex or Visa, like 3% of your entire purchase, huge fees. Plus, you know, so basically the credit card industry is wildly lucrative because, and it's built into the cost of everything we buy. So if you're going to go to the store and pay with the debit card or cash, I just want you to understand you are. throwing money in the trash because you're paying with the cost of those rewards are built in

to give back, but you're kind of paying for, you know, the point system for everyone else. But don't fret. People think that this is just for frequent travelers, like frequent flyer programs are now frequent buyer programs. Like more points are created from spending on credit cards than they are from flying. So just think about how much money you spend every month. And the goal is to get at least more than one point per dollar on everything you spend. So when it comes to getting a credit card and before I even get into the details, like to win at the points game, you have to pay your bill off in full every month. Like if you are in credit card debt, don't worry. I was actually an idiot in college and got myself in the credit card debt, kind of put my head in the sand

and like ruin my credit score. So it's always kind of funny that like now I'm like the world's credit card expert and I was a moron. But I actually think that experience of going through it has helped me understand where people are coming from. Yeah, no, we've talked about on this show and had like finance experts on and we constantly recommend if they can.

Like, if you're going to charge under credit card, pay it in full every time, like don't accumulate the debt and start paying the interest. You just, it's a because if you're paying interest, even if you've got a lower interest rate card, you're negating the value of those points. In a nutshell, points are worth like roughly one cent per point. So if you've got 100,000 points, in general,

a conservative value of those points should be about $1,000. Now, the game is so we all agree that you're going to not if you're going to get a credit card you're not going to spend outside of your means just because you can you're going to pay your bills off in full and the wild thing is your credit score actually goes up the more credit cards and available credit you have and the less you use so if you go to the fico website and i know people are worried of brian i'm not getting into credit cards they ruin your credit card if i take out a card there is like a two to five point ding when you get a new credit card but that goes your score

goes up dramatically the two biggest factors are paying your bills on time and paying them off. So if you actually have a lot of credit available to you and you pay it off and it's zero, your score, and it's really crazy how quickly your score will go up. So in the points world, it's amazing. People are like, well, I get these credit cards that come with humongous bonuses that are worth thousands of dollars. So their banks are giving points away.

And then every dollar you spend, your earning points. And my score went up too. And a higher credit score means cheaper mortgage. I mean, it's having good credit in general, like you need to look at as an asset. So you can play this points game and improve your credit score and travel incredibly and have these life experiences that your budget might not have been able to afford, just like I did when I was living paycheck to paycheck, but still going to the Seychelles on a long weekend. So that being said, okay, great, I've sold you on credit cards and good financial health.

There's three main types of credit cards. So the type that you want to get, you want to diversify your points. because what happens is, you know, and I know people will be like, I love Delta. I just want to fly Delta. I only want Delta points. And Delta's a great airline. But what happens when your friends are like, hey, let's all go to Dubai and you can't use your Delta miles to fly any good airline nonstop to Dubai?

Like the goal of points is to diversify. So that's why this category of cards that I recommend is called transferable points credit cards. So Amex membership rewards, Chase Ultimate Rewards, City, thank you points. And then those are in Capital One. So you get these cards and instead of just accruing into like one single airline with Amex, for example, if you use an Amex gold, which is probably one of the best Amex cards, it's four points per dollar on groceries and I think most of your listeners probably spend overspended those categories. And if you're going out to eat or even, you know, see. And you can select the, I remember at one point, like I had a, at an agency and we selected the option to do like the marketing dollars. And with that we're online advertising. So you bring up a great point. If you've got a small business, even a tiny one. So at the point, when I sold the. When I sold the. points guy years ago, I actually negotiated to have all of the business expense still run through my credit cards because that's the number one way that I get points. Now we're spending like a million

dollars a month on Facebook, which is online advertising, which the MX business goal, Chase Inc. I'll give three and four X points on that spend. You're just like accumulating a few million, five million points a month. A month. So just on that one type of spend. Are you taking us to Dubai? Let's go. Have you guys ever flown Emirates first class? I have flown it once. And it It was I couldn't even, it was like orgasmic. I couldn't get off the plane. I know, and they're long flights. And we did use Amics.

Let's go. Let's go a couple more times. But did you do the A3A where you took the shower? I didn't take a shower, but I was too busy watching Beauty and the Beast with a glass of Brunello eating my caviar. I mean, I was in heaven. I took my mom and dad. And my mom was like, I don't want to take a shower.

I was like, mom, you're taking a shower. Because where else can you do that? A 40,000 feet going 554 miles an hour. Well, I think this is a good topic to touch on because sometimes, you know, people will see us travel business. And over the years, I've been thoughtful and figuring some of these things out. And most of the time, it's through points. Sometimes there's a small fee and like, you know, you might have to pay the taxes or whatever. But it's a fraction. I mean, for example. I mean, you talk about companion passes too. Like sometimes. It's like, sometimes. Like, you get a transferable points, too. Like, sometimes. And then you get a free. Like, Lauren's been able to travel with me free sometimes. Yep. Yeah. I mean, it adds up quickly. So basically like the get a transferable points credit card. Amex gold is. like is Primo in that they have really rich categories. Chase Sapphire. I would say if anyone who's just looking like the gateway drug for so many people in points, I would say is like the Chase Sapphire card.

The preferred has like a $95 annual fee. It's double points on travel and dining. Now back to like what I said, every dollar you spend, you want to be getting more than one point. And for example, if you've got to chase Sapphire Reserve, which is a really good card, you earn three points on travel and dining.

But I encourage everyone to look at the cards that you have and like see what that category means. In the case of Chase Saffire, travel includes parking garages, tolls, you know, in addition to all the obvious, you know, so there's every credit card has different perk categories that like, what I want people to do is look at what you, the major categories you spend money and then try to get, use a card that will give you a bonus in that category. Now, some categories like doctor's offices, there's no credit card that gives medical. So that for something like that, there are cards that like Chase Freedom, gives one and a half points per dollar on everything. And Capital One Ventures, two X on all

spend. So the goal is like when you're going out and buying groceries, you're used Amex Gold for 4X. And then if you're going to go to a doctor's office, well, you're going to get double points on venture. So you use that. One other card. What about cashback? So the transferable points is key category number one. That's like, that's what I think I put the bulk of my points. The second cash back credit cards are decent. Here's the thing. The transferable points cards are really valuable when you transfer them to airlines and sometimes hotels. If you want Amazon credit, if you want to use your points to shop at SACs, for example, that's a terrible way to use your Amex points because you're going to be getting less innocent per point in value. If you want to do

that, get a cashback credit card, right? Cash back, like city double cash, no annual fee, 2% back as long as you pay your bill on time. So that you spend 100,000, you get 2,000 cold hard cash. You can use it however you want. Like if you want simplicity, you don't have to want a emmerts first class but you should be using instead of a debit card which you're getting zero use a card like a cashback card and then the third type is like airline credit cards where once again a lot of people be like well i just love you know delta airlines so that's i'm just to use every credit card delta those cards are good but generally not for earning points they're great for perks free check bags but you can use that card but remember you don't have to put all of your spend on one card i

highly recommend you know don't get i have 25 credit cards oh jesus that's a little extreme i'm I don't recommend people to do that. But get a couple cards that are like solid, you know, where you spend the most money, office supplies, groceries. And then you'll see, you know, not only where you get a huge sign-up bonus for a card. And that's one other thing. Never, you know, if you've got a never upgrade your card with a credit card company, you always want to apply for a brand new card because you're going to get the sign-up bonus.

No sign-up bonuses can be 100,000 points or more. You know, if you call up your credit card company and say, I want, you know, want to change this card to that one. They'll be like, sure, but then they won't give you the massive bonus. So you just want to sign up every time. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Say you have a bunch of points and tell me if I'm wrong. You log into your credit card account. You see it there, there should be up in the right corner. It should say your points or however miles or whatever it is. What is the best way to start figuring out how to utilize? Because I think a lot of people are sitting there like, okay, I've had this card for forever. I've had an Amex and I'm sitting on all these point. What the

hell do I do with them? Yeah. Well, and I'll also just plug, we six months ago, we came out with our the Points Guy app, and it's the only app that'll give you your net worth in points. So you can attach all your credit cards, your airlines. We use our valuations for what points we have a whole, every month our editorial team comes out with the new ranking of how much each airline currency is worth based on general redemptions. So first things first is just seeing how many points you have. And people are usually blown away like, oh, wow, I have a lot more than I realize. And that's what we want to, we want to use technology to empower people. You know, the Points Sky's been around for 12 years. We've got 50,000 blog posts. Like, it is a lot to take this in and to really become an expert. Now, what I would tell

people is there is, there are so many resources on the internet, you know, the points guy, obviously, but there's plenty of other websites. So if you just say, I encourage people that if you've got a ton of capital one venture miles, Google how to maximize capital one venture miles. They'll be, you know, my writers who are the experts in their field that will bring you through each and every, or even just say, how do I get to say you want to go to the Maldives? How do I get to the Maldives? How do I get to the Maldives on points and there's tons of content that will help start you thinking through like, okay, what are actually the best ways to do that? For example, like, you know, flights are just one side, but hotels or another. So it's like, what's the best way to use Amex points for hotels or?

And do you think hotels are as, do you get as much value out of hotels as flights or as flights? Flights are generally, especially if you're redeeming for business, international and first, hotels can be redeeming like transferring chase points to Hyatt. For example, you can get park hyots for only 25,000 points. And those park hyots are over $1,000 a night. When you do the math, that comes out to four cents per point in value. If you're using 25,000 points and you're getting something $1,000 in value. So that's a great redemption. I'm going to the Rich Carlton, Maldives next month. And it was like $4,000 a night, but I was only spending like 100,000 points a night. And then you get the fifth night free with Marriott. So like there's all these nuances. And all I'll say is,

points, it's a currency. It's just like the, you know, crypto, the U.S. dollar, it has this inherent value. The coolest thing about points is the more you mine your knowledge in a certain currency, the value goes up. You'll have those aha moments and it seems really confusing at first, but once you start to speak the language and crack the code, and I tell you, it is worth it. Because when you transfer points to book that flight to Italy that you didn't think you were going to be able to afford this, you know, summer, and the taxes and fees are $41 for $4,000 flight, it is a rush. And once people do that, that's when they become like, okay, it's a little difficult. But I think in the complexity of all these points programs, it's like

solving the crossword puzzle. But instead of just having, you know, pride that you did it or a wordel, you get to take a trip. That's why I think this is like the most fun game in the world. What is the coolest, sickest thing that you've gotten from your points out of everything you've done? You can name a couple things because I feel like you have a couple. Better help, online therapy. You know what? Life is overwhelming. There's a lot going on. There's a hundred things to do. A lot of us feel tired, fatigued, unmotivated. And this is something that is such an incredible tool to have in your toolbox. Better help. It's a customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with a therapist. Here's the deal. If you don't want to see

anyone on camera, you don't have to, you can just talk to them on the phone. If you want to see someone on camera, great. If I had had this in high school when I was like looking for a therapist frantically, it would have made my life so much easier. I went to like 10 different therapists to help me through something that I was going through. And I remember it was just like such a letdown. This is something that's efficient. You can do out of your home. You can do video, call, whatever you want. And it's quick to book. It's therapy online. So if you're feeling burnt out from work, if you're feeling burnt out in relationships, whatever it is, this is such a good tool to take more time for yourself. I actually was talking to one of my best friends who's used

BetterHelp. She was telling me how incredible it was to just get on the phone with someone and just hash out all her problems. You could see someone once. You could see them a lot. It's whatever you want to do. So BetterHelp is a customized online therapy, like I said, that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera. if you don't want to. Also, you should know it's so much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash skinny.

That's betterhelp.com slash skinny. So I will start with the first thing is you can use points for charity. And so I'm gay and so lucky that in the United States I can be CEO and my family loves me and even have kids if I want to. but a lot of LGBT people around the world have it really bad. So I support an organization called Rainbow Railroad, and we actually, it's a global network, and we help people where being gay is illegal.

You can be imprisoned, you can be killed, and unfortunately it happens a lot more than you think. So Rainbow Railroad, you can donate your points, your Amex points or Air Canada Aeroplane, and we actually save people's lives with those points. So we'll get people out of Chechnya, where there's currently gay concentration camps. Jamaica, beautiful country, amazing people, but like trans people in Jamaica literally live under bridges.

They're called gullies. I went with 60 minutes to Jamaica and literally was able to witness people. And if you're trans in so many communities, you can't live. You can't get a job. So the best use of points in my life is helping save people's lives, getting them to asylum in countries where they can live their authentic selves. Plenty of other charities too, make a wish. We do a lot with, you know, their number one request from their wish kids is travel. So if you ever even have points just laying around that you're not going to use, I highly

encourage you to donate them. So many amazing organizations. And do you just go to those organizations? They have points and I want to figure out how to. Yeah. Each airline and credit card companies different in the charities they align with. But what you can also do, even if you can't donate, what you can do is for your kids school, for example.

I know a lot of schools hit parents up for fundraisers. You can actually use your points and say, hey, look, I'll book a $500 flight. Amex points are, you know, I'll book a $500 flight for someone in like a raffle. And then you can just use your points and book travel for other people. So there's a lot of different ways you can get creative about it. But the bottom line with points, if there's one thing you take away from this podcast is you've got to use them. Because they lose value over time because the airlines in general in hotels, they just, what we call a devaluation, they keep raising the price.

You know, 10 years ago, you could go to Europe for 100,000 miles in business class. That was like the going rate, you know. Now it's like 300. 300. Yeah. So that's, it's not doomsday because on the earning side, there's no better way than today bonuses,

those categories. So if you're smart about it, you can be earning tons of points so that you can offset that inflation in the price by earning more, you know? Let me ask you this. So say you have,

you're just starting out on your journey with credit and you don't, you don't have a lot of credit. What is a type of card that you would recommend people to start with? Like, say they can't get approved for an annex gold, even though like that's one of the start. You know, you know, There's Discover is a great card. None of them have fees. They're more entry level point.

You know, you may not got to chase Sapphire card, but you can start with the freedom, which has a little bit lower credit profile. I know a lot of immigrants, you know, you come, even if you're a billionaire immigrant, you live in London, you fly, you come to the U.S. There's no credit profile. You literally have the credit profile of a 15 year old and you can't even get a cell phone. I'm actually working with the company called Nova Credit, and it's the first ever international credit score where they're now integrated with Amex and Verizon, but if you have credit history abroad for the first time you can actually get the credit that you deserve because they transfer those international scores over.

What are the CEOs of all these companies got you on Speed doll or what? Well, it's kind of fun, you know, now. Imagine it. This is why there's some leverage going on. Investing. And I've still full on with the points. I sold it a decade ago. It's so fun. We're growing the company.

But now I think advising and investing is a real passion of mine. Just this week, someone came to me a couple of, Encore Jane, the CEO of Built, which is the first ever credit card you earned points on rent. We just launched it nationally with Wells Fargo this week. But we came up with this idea like most young people, your biggest expense is rent. And that's the one area in points. Like you could never, you know, you could pay your rent, but they charge you 3%. And once again, if you're paying 3% to earn points, like you're negating the value of those points.

So we have created this new credit card built, which is no annual fee. You earn points on rent. And because your biggest expense is now on your credit profile, your score goes up over time as long as you're paying it off and paying it off in full. So built it as an intro card for a lot of people, renters. It's a way to start earning points, you know, even if you don't have your own business or spending millions, you know, on advertising. Yeah, Discover card. You can even get a secured credit card, put $500 down and then pay it off every single month. The thing about credit is so many of us want to put our heads in the sand. It's too difficult or your score can go up really

quickly if you just have a strategy. I think people get bad advice. There's a lot of financial experts say like don't you i think there's a the message gets construed is like don't use credit and i think what those experts are saying is don't carry balances on credit with interest they assume the worst in people and dave ramsie look i mean a lot of people in america are in credit card debt and it sucks it's quicksand there are so many predatory i even when i was broke living in new york before i started the point sky like i refused to ask my parents for money so i got a payday loan and it was evil sorcery like i would pay it off but they would have all these stipulations and it's funny enough that the guy who owned that company is now in jail.

There was a Netflix documentary about this payday loan companies. So I get it. Like for people, when you have no money. People are scared of it. They're scared. They're like, it's going to hurt me. And you should rightfully be scared and have, you know, but if you have the discipline,

if you have cash in your checking account and you can pay your bill off in full every month and your score will go up and your points balances will increase. And that's what I like to teach people. It's not, it 100% is a game you can win. I got a weird tip. You can get a car. especially in a business card, especially, but also personal cards. And you can get supplementary cards for free on those and set limits on them.

And most of the time it's done when like a parent has a kid. I think that's a smart way if you're going to carry a credit card and you're scared to go over your balance. Like set a thousand dollar cap. And if you hit that, it's like you can't spend on it anymore. Absolutely. What cards suck? I would say there's like a Visa black card that is not the real. The real black card is Amex Centurian.

Funny enough. Like so I'm a MX Centurian card holder and it's $5,000 a year. And honestly, it's one of the worst Amex cards in terms of points. You only earn really one point per dollar spent, which is so wild to think the $250 gold card, you earn $4.X and three, you know. So I would say that there is a lot of super expensive credit cards that are,

it's more about the hype and having the card than it is actually the points. One other thing, but the one other thing we haven't talked about, points are amazing, but perks are another thing that can be incredible. So as we talked about, the airport can be a scary place these days. So if you really value being able to go to a lounge and not just get free booze in the lounge,

what people don't realize is whenever a flight gets canceled, you can't get through on the phone and there's a two hour long line to talk to a rep. Go to the airline lounge because the people at that front desk can rebook you and get you home on that last seat. You know, I always see those people waiting in line. I'm like, oh, you're doing it wrong. By the time you get to that agent, you're going to have no options left. Did you know that tip?

Yeah. That's a great tip. Well, and also, too, you like put someone with the Centurion and the plot. I mean, now we're getting to the operatelons, but like you can get to somebody much easier on the phone. Yep. And that's why, I mean, I started booking with travel agents, travel advisors. I have Amex like travel, which is pretty good. Whenever it's a 10-hour wait on the phone, I can message my MX rep and be like, hey, cancel these flights or change these.

I'll end on the worst credit cards. A lot of no fee cards. I know people have this natural version. I don't want to pay annual fees. the cards with annual fees actually offer the most benefits. And what I would implore people to look for is more than just the points. But look at perks. A lot of credit cards have what's called travel interruption or delay coverage.

So if you're delayed 10 hours or overnight, airlines are not going to give you a hotel stay or get you a rental car to get your destination. But credit card companies will. So while, yes, it's nice to look at how many points you're earning, but a lot of credit cards will have, you know, if you're in Africa on Safari and, you know, you're with your parent that has a heart attack. Like if you book on an Amix Platinum, they'll actually, they have evacuation coverage that can save you hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it's not just the points that you should be looking at, but also look at the perks. And I'll just say for people

who use like debit cards out of fundamental principle, you know, they don't have the purchase protections. You know, when an airline goes bankrupt, literally just dissolves overnight. And that's happened a lot. And if you're stranded, it happened in Iceland with this budget carrier, wow, where you're screwed. But if you put it on an Amex or Chase, there's so much that they can do above and beyond. And these days, travel continues to melt down. It will for a while. There's pilot shortages, all sorts of things that are going to make travel complicated. So having the right credit cards where you pay a little bit, you can get a ton back in terms of like the perks and benefits. Okay. I feel like you're a perfect person to ask this. I want to take this step by

step. Say Susie in Oklahoma has atrocious credit. Like, it's the worst credit you've ever seen. What would you advise her to do step by step, like really tangible takeaways for our audience? Yeah. The number one thing is you've got to pay down your balances. So your first goal, so we're not even going to think about applying for new credit cards or anything like that. You want to get your balances down. And if you have a card that's like you're getting 30% in APR, there are balance transfers that can make sense. So instead of trying to think, about a points card like look at cards that will offer you know zero percent financing and take advantage of them right you've got to neutralize yourself in the quicksand and just be maniacal cut your

costs you know pay off your debt as soon as you pay off your debt and you're paying it in every month your score will start to go up you know if your balances remain and the monthly fees will offset the minimum payment so you're going to be sitting in quicksand forever your score is not going to go up so the the goal is to just get your balances down over time and you You will see as you're spending. And once you have the big credit limit, you're whittling it down. That's when your score goes up. There's really not that much more to it.

There's a lot of scam companies out there that will sell you on credit cleanup. Take that money and pay off the principal balance. And you can do a lot of that stuff yourself. If there are inaccuracies, you can dispute them for free. I would just say to anyone in debt, just educate yourself on the resources available, talk to the lender, see if they have forgiveness. don't just put your head in the sand and walk away from it because, you know, and I know a lot of people like, well, you know, I have one late payment and in seven years

it'll be gone, so I might as well have more, but that's not the way to think about it. This is nuance and maybe high level, but I think it's worth mentioning. I remember one time we were going to France and I wanted to use Miles and it was through AMX. Was it through AMX or it might have been chased? Anyway, it's a transferable point program. And the airline we were trying to use the miles through wouldn't allow. So what I had to do was actually transfer the miles to like Air Canada and then Air Canada.

So I don't remember how I figured that out, but I think it's worth mentioning because there's also ways as you're transferring. Like you might want you might think I'm going to France and you fly Air France, but you can't. But if you transfer partners. Yes, partner programs. So the holy grow for us. So today you like and you know my favorite site to look up cheap flights is Google flights. It's free. You can search by calendar like what day is going to be the cheapest.

That doesn't exist for using your points as you just mentioned. So if you've got Amex points, there's 23. five different airlines you can transfer to. In the case of Airplane, it's actually one of the best transfer partners that people don't know about. Air Canada is a Starline's airline, meaning you can book Lufthansa, Singapore, and so many others. What we want to create at the points guy is the Google flights for award travel. You know, like you can go to online travel agencies and search paid flights because there's

like one pipe that the airlines have built to kind of display airfares. They don't have that for frequent flyer miles. So each and every airline has its own platform. we want to build the platform that will merge all of them. So if you have Amex points and some American and some Hyatt and you want to take a trip to the Caribbean and this week, we want to be able to reverse engineer that. But the airlines have been challenging to work with because, you know, when they created online travel agencies, it took business away from them. So how did I figure that out? I wonder, because I remember when I did, it was significant.

It was a lot of savings when I figured. And I don't remember if someone consulted me or if it was something I navigated through the site. But if somebody's doing this and going through the exercise and be like, oh, like, I want to figure out other ways to figure out how to use my points guy. Actually, in the points guy app, which is in the Apple App Store just as the points guy, it's free. We actually have a trip planner tool. So it'll say if you want to go Austin to London. So basically the logic gets crazy. If Amex has 30 different transfer partners and each of those airlines is a part of an alliance or has other airline partners, like the statistical ways that you could use those points are like, you're like.

So in our trip planner and the TB. G app will actually list all the different transfer partners that you have with that airline and how many miles roughly they would take for you to fly a certain route. It's not perfect because it doesn't pull in the real availability. In order to do that, the airlines would need to share their, you know, the APIs to their award availability. But I do believe we will get there one day. But the point is you can kind of surf around and not just take the first result and see

if there's transfer points and look around and bet your options. A great example of that is like if you got Amex points, Delta is a transfer partner, but don't transfer to Delta, you know, transferring to Virgin Atlanta, usually if you can find that same

Delta flight, it's at a fraction of the cost and fees. Once again, this is like with the transferable points, it's a tricky

game, but once you start learning it, that's when you get insane value. Let's say Brian is booking a flight to St. Barts.

I'm going next week for the first time, actually. Oh, look at this. I'm psychic. Let's say that you're booking the trip. Walk us through

every single little hack that you're taking to book this trip in the most bushy, extravagant way on a budget. That's a great example because, okay, one lesson is it's all about the plane people. Different types of planes, you can have a wildly different experience. And I am a snob when it comes to flying, like, I need a life lap bed. When you're tall.

I'm six foot seven, you know, sitting in a recliner seat. Any single, you guys. I know. If anyone's out there, six foot seven and single. And with points. With points. With points. So in my case, New York City, United Airlines actually flies a 767 to San Juan with lie flat beds.

And then from there I can take the puddle jumper. And it's cheaper to fly through San Juan. Most people, if you talk, yeah, everyone says, oh, we'll fly to St. Martin. It's actually St. Martin's much more expensive to fly to and they've got crappier planes. So when it comes to flying, like I always look at a site called seat guru.com can help you look at the seat maps and see what kind of plane it is. Unfortunately, New York to Austin, there are no live flats, but I feel like that's going to change one day.

Michael just popped to Boner when you just said Seek Guru. I've been on Seek Guru for years. You don't know this? I have no idea. I type in the number, the flight number. I go in there and figure out what the plane. He loves shit like this. I look at the pictures. Keep going. Keep going. Give him all the seat guru checks. You know, I'll answer. One of top questions people ask is like, I'm a nervous

flyer. So here's the thing. The bigger the plane, the smoother the ride. So you can, I always recommend take the, you know, and you can look get the type of plane that's flying on a certain route. Also, I recommend flying newer planes, like 787s, A350s are like quiet inside. And if you want to get sleep on a plane, some older planes are like, and if you sit next to the engine on a triple seven, like my head literally like shakes in its seat. So always try to sit as far front in the plane as possible, especially

internationally because you want to get off the plane first. Like if you're in the back, that could be an extra hour in customs. At the airport. You know, clear, TSA pre, all the programs. programs. My biggest thing, like I told you now, is like, how do I jet through in the most seamless way possible with my wife, kid, the Chihuahua, everything that's going on? How do you do it? All right. When I moved to Austin, I needed a doctor. And guess what? I have an app. It's free that shows you doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance, and are available when you need them. So instead of going to Google and like trying to figure it out and the reviews are fake and like people are boosting things. You can just go to Zoc Doc and you can read up on local doctors. You get verified patient reviews. Verified's very important. And you can see what other real humans had to say about their visit. So easy to find a doctor, especially if you're moving somewhere new or if you're already living somewhere and you don't have a doctor. And you also know when you walk into the doctor's office, you're set up to see someone in your network who gets you. I also think like just having the booking intro is so important because they take your insurance. They get what you need.

and they can be available when you need to see them. It just takes all the pain points out, which is so nice. All you have to do is go to ZocDoc.com. You choose a time slot and whether you want to see the doctor in person or you can even do a video visit. I love this. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to go to Zock.com slash skinny and download ZockDoc app for free.

Then start your search for a top rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C dot com slash skinny. Zocdoch.com slash skinny. Everyone should get global entry. Global entry is $100 for five years, to $20 a year, and you get, with that comes TSA precheck. And doesn't AMX include it in? Exactly.

And a bunch of different credit cards have free global entry. So just Google what credit cards offer free global entry. Sign up for it now. It'll come with TSA precheck. And global entry allows you when you come back to the U.S. to avoid the lines. You don't even need to put your fingers down. Now it scans your irises and you're through in two minutes. Same thing. TSA precheck is great. Some airports that precheck line like in Atlanta, it's so long, that getting clear, which also credit cards, and if you have top airline status with United or Delta, they'll give it you for free. But Clear allows you to get to the front of the TSA precheck line.

That's super cheap. Was it like 30 bucks a year now? No, Clear is actually a little bit expensive. It depends. Yeah, it's like $150 or so a year. I remember when they first started, it was cheap. It was really cheap because they wanted people on. Clear is also cool because it works at stadiums too. So Yankee Stadium, there's a long security line. There's Clear lanes that can get you to the front. They're starting to do it more at like festivals and they had some COVID vaccine passports through Clear. So it's a pretty innovative company.

But yeah, pre-check and clear is the way to go for sure. And then when boarding a plane, getting an airline co-branded card will get you, you know, instead of Group 9 when you're going to have to check your bag, wait, you know, go to the belt, getting on the plane matters, getting at least an airline co-branded credit card that will get you that zone three boarding. Lauren gets mad at me when I want to get on the plane. But here's my, here's my logic.

Tell me you to disagree. I don't want to stand in the tube with everybody holding all the bags. So I either want to get on first or at the very, very end if I have to. I mean, for me, I'm like as little time as possible on this tiny metal tube is good. But I'm,

you know, because you all stand there like, you guys are so different than me. I am so lax. I put my headphones on. I don't know what. I didn't even know there's different kinds of planes. But Lauren.

I have no idea. I'm in La La La Land. But I'm holding all the shit. I am in the goddamn clouds. Like I have... Which is probably the way to win these days. I just don't let all of these outside things affect me. But I'm like listening.

Are you a window seat or I'll see, girl? I don't care. I don't think about it. The reason you don't think about it doesn't affect you is because your husband is standing in the corner with 18 bags. He probably. Fighting with other people for that last spot. Maybe I'm a princess like that because I just let you handle it.

Do you know what she does? We get off the plane. This is a true story. We have a dog and a carrier. We have a child. We have three carry-on bags. We have a stroller. The flight lands.

She gets up, grabs her glass of water, walks off, and I'm staring at. And people look at me on the plane like, you poor, son of a bitch. Lauren, surely this isn't true. This is 100% true. I just think the plane is just, put your headphones on and have a glass of champagne and enjoy the ride. She puts the headphones on because she can't hear my screaming cries for help. I also can't control the plane or the pilot.

So I just detach from it. People always ask this. question about flight anxiety. I don't have any. How do you deal with that? Yeah. I mean, but I agree with you in that you got to control your own environment. So I always have my, you know, lately I like the Apple AirPods Max. You know, I can block out if there's a screaming baby, like, just crank up your music and get into your own zone, take a gummy of whatever choosing that you like to enjoy yourself. And just like, don't be so, I think people walk into the airport like ramped up, stressed out to begin with. And that's why you see so many psychotic people.

just acting like crazy. So I do believe like a good attitude. Like, and it's not, you know, we should be like thankful we're able to travel these days, especially after coming out of a pandemic where we've been cooped up. So and I just would say to anyone,

please stop yelling at airline employees. Like, because not just because it's a rude thing to do, but like these employees have all the power. They are paid nothing and they can control whether you get home or not. So screaming at them is literally the dumbest thing you could ever do. I think that's in any. It's so unbecoming.

when you're in line at the airport and you see someone losing their cool on an employee. It's it makes you look like a fucking dick. Yeah. Just stop. The employee is doing their best. It's so stupid. I'm a big believer in kill him with kindness. It's the best way.

That's how you get ahead, especially in airlines. And also these days, like plan extra. I'm sorry when people are like, I'm going to miss my 41 minute connection to go on my $20,000 cruise. I'm like, why would you, like these days flights are going to get canceled? the airlines are not staffed appropriately. Do not plan anywhere a 30 minute connection. You know, like I love when we land on time

and someone's racing from the back, I'm going to miss my connection. I'm like, why did you book such a stupid connection? And also the points guys on the plane, so maybe not the right plane to say that on. Well, you know,

I think you mentioned earlier, like am I the guy that shows up three hours? I think when I travel now, I want it to be leisurely, right? Like, I don't want to sweat or rush through. And even if that means I have to go a little early and go to a lounge for a little longer

or walk through connection. Because I was, that guy in the past was like, it was tight and it was going. And they're like, now I'm just like, it's too much now with a kid. Yeah.

And especially with pregnant. It's impossible. So I'm like, you know, make fun of me that I get there a little earlier, but I'm relaxed. I'm not like running like home alone.

I wouldn't say you're relaxed. I'm pretty relaxed these days. I actually created a character on Snapchat, probably about seven years ago called Susan. And Susan is Michael at the airport. Susan is, is Susan a relative of Karen? Susan is like worse than Karen.

I think it was the original. Susan is slamming suitcases, zipping things aggressively, pounding things on, eating quickly. I was the dad meme. It's just like calm down. I read this quote the other day about how anxiety does nothing for you. And it really doesn't do anything. It's a waste of goddamn energy. You know, though, it is, there is nothing worse than, like, I remember one time we were

leaving JFK is a bitch of a report to get out of. Before JFK, that's another tip. If you, yeah, just completely. Yeah. We had to go, there was a big snowstorm in New York and we were trying to leave and the traffic just got crazy. And then the flight got canceled literally right when we got there and getting a hotel, everyone got canceled.

So the hotels are limited out there and they're all like fucked up. Yeah. And so we had to stay and that was that was a mess. Like that's my worst nightmare. You have like post-traumatic stress over things. I don't even remember. I don't remember any of them. You put on Gone Girl and served me a breakfast restaurant.

That's what I had. That was my experience. I was stuck in a gun down. A gone girl. a dark room. Wait, I have to ask you guys questions. So I want to have kids one day. How has traveling changed with one kid and like how are you preparing for the second?

It's completely fucking different. You want the truth? This is completely different. I'm just telling you right now, hold on. You got to come prepared. And listen, I'm as you can tell I'm not a prepared person. Can you tell? I come with like dried mango puffs, apple crunchables, like tons of snap.

Let's clarify here though. I laugh at the parents that say it's hard traveling with a child that's a year old. It's not. I mean, it is. It's challenging. And I say that because I'm a parent who's done it. Try traveling 18 months to two and a half years when you can't reason with them, when they don't want to sit down, when they don't want to listen. But he's not there yet.

He's at one. But the reason I mentioned is because that I used to think when we were traveling at that age, I'm like, oh, this is challenging. This is hard. I was one of those. I look back on that. I could do that so easily now, right? There's certain things that I would get to do it. Let's get him through the first year.

We're not there yet. Has Zazz ever had a full meltdown on the plane? Are you kidding? What do you do when they're just like? I hand her to my God to get a glass of champagne. I have so much empathy now for parents when their kids are having a meltdown because here's this, I look at it in three stages. The first stage is you don't have kids and a kid starts screaming, you're annoyed.

You're like, oh, Jesus, the crying kid on the flight. The second stage is you're a parent who has a kid and you just look at that parent like, oh my God, I feel so bad. And then I think the third stage, which we haven't got to, but I see is older people that have had kids but don't anymore. And they're like, get it. Still in the life. I think that you got to bring snacks.

You got to bring a water cup that sips through a straw. It has to be a straw. Don't try to bring any other cup other than a straw. I also think you need a blanket in case they get cold because sometimes it gets air conditioning. You got to do like the barefoot dream. Yeah, you need like a barefoot dream mini blanket. You also have to have activities and the activity that. I'm obsessed with right now and everyone needs if you're a parent. My friend Hillary told me about it.

It's a coloring book, but it's with water. The pen is water. So when they color on the little coloring book, it shows up in color, but it's water. So mommy doesn't get any markers on her white couch. So if you bring colors on the plane, they're going to get it everywhere. You also, and this is the biggest one, you got to have a show downloaded. And don't come at me on Instagram and say, I don't let my kids watch TV. You got to have a fucking showdown. For your own sanity. I have a lot of friends who say, like, you limit the screen time, like, a lot on land,

but, like, any time on a plane, you just, like, let them go out. It's like, take the heroin. Never ever let them learn how to use the screens behind the seats. Yeah. Let me tell you. Like, there's, like, there's maybe parents nodding their head. Because it's, what happens is when they're in this in-between age, when they don't understand it, it doesn't act as an iPad and there's announcements or things

that chirp in, and they're, like, smack. It stops their show. So now I just, I pretend that doesn't exist. Yeah. There's things that you're going to. I've had like kids banging my seat like playing. You're going to call me in a year and a half and still. Oh shit.

Yeah. But you'll be, I feel like you'll make it seamless. Yeah. But it's definitely a different experience. And you need a lot of champagne. How so are you going to take a- So also has been on probably 60 flights.

Are you, are you going to take a baby movie? Like at what like while pregnant, like at what stage do you travel to? I don't have that much. interest in taking a baby moon. I would rather take a moon after I give birth. Because listen, I can't have a margarita in Cabo. I'm rolling around like an old sow. To have sex right now, it feels like someone's just like porking me from behind. It's like, it's just not like, these baby moons are just like, no, I don't get it. Like I want to have an afternoon. Like, where I feel like the baby's out, like we're good. I can have a margarita.

like it's hotter sex. Like after your first child, like how long did you travel without the child? Like, do you have guilt like at a certain? Yes. Because I'm just trying to think of my life once I have a kid. It's like, you know, do you feel guilty traveling without the child? I certainly want to like would want to like stay home. I don't know if it's so much guilt as it is like you do, like in our case, we do miss her.

But at the same time, I think it's healthy to knock out. Michael, we've taken one night trip away from the baby. And she's two years old. Yes, it is. We're taking two. Which one? Went to Vegas and then we went to, there's another place we went.

Oh, no, no. It is. I don't believe you. No, there is, but maybe, oh, not together. Yeah, not together. Yeah, not together. There has been, though. No, there's been one trip.

We, yes, we feel guilty. But the woman feels that I've noticed way more than the man. Like, the woman, because you're supposed to like, you're supposed to like be a stay at home mom, but also I work full time the same amount as him. It's so interesting. I was telling someone the other day.

Everyone asked me if I have a nanny. But no one asks him. And we work the exact. exact same amount of time. It's so weird. That's a different conversation. Anyway, so yes, you do feel guilt, but I think that for you, like, you're just going to have to manage it because it's part of your gig.

What, how, where, after Moon, what are your top destinations? Like, where are you dying to go once you're traveling again? I just want to sit in Cabo. I've never been to Cabo. What? Yeah, I've been to the Maldives six times, but never Cabo. I've never been to the Maldives. So do I need to go to Maldives?

Maldives are awesome. It's just like, they're, they're, far, but it's like just being on a tiny speck of sand in the most crystal blue waters. Just like-hint, hint, my afternoon. And you fly Emirates through or Qatar, like the Middle Eastern Airlines are sick. You make the trip. It's a long way there, but you make the trip part of the, you know. Here's what I think, what I predict.

So Zaza has been now, she's been to the UK, she's been to France, Switzerland. I don't know, but she's nothing to brag about because it's been a nightmare travel the whole time. I'm not bragging, but the reason I mention is because she's been on these distance flights. And it's great once you get over there and it's nice. But it's a lot of effort once they're over 18 months. And it's a lot of strain. And I think Lauren and I are now looking, okay, now that we're in this phase of life and we're going to have young kids for a little while, like, where are the places where you can

get there three to five hours in a bang and like really like have a great time, but not have the, like it's hard when you start a trip with 15 hours and a jet lagged kid. Yeah. It just is. But one of my friends went to Australia and she put her baby in a fucking car seat. You can't go anywhere The way we couldn't go anywhere And sat there for 15 hours

Well my mom used always Give me drama me And I was like mom I'm not sick She's like take this I bet that's illegal these days But can I interview your mom That's amazing I don't know what this says about me

But I learned that after I was born Like a few weeks later That my parents went to Europe for three weeks So I don't know what that's about Oh that explains it Yeah Where is your favorite place to travel If you had to give us your top three places

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Well, my top overall destination, I love traveling within Africa. Like South Africa is, have you, either of you been? No, I really want to go. Let me just tell you. I get chills even thinking about South Africa because Cape Town is like the stunning city, table mountain on the coast. There's penguins in the water. It's kind of got this, you know, European vibe to it, cool.

And then the wine country is 45 minutes outside the city. and it's these rolling valleys, insane wineries, like just a vibe. And then also safaris just, have you been on a safari? Safari, I mean, I love animals, but just being in the middle, like, you look at like the animal kingdom as what it's supposed to be. Like you really feel like these, you know, you're in a, in a Jeep, two feet, a lion walks by you. And you're just watching nature as it happens. It's like so exhilarating, but also like you go to a good like Singita Le Bombo, I highly recommend. It's in South Africa.

Sheik, chic, chic, chic, like gorgeous, you know, villas. You're on a watering hole, so you're showering and you see animals coming up to the watering hole from your room. And then at night you have sundowners, which is when the sun's going down on the savannah. They set up a beautiful, like cocktails. And it's just, so South Africa is like. What's the hotel to stay up there? Well, the Silo Hotel in Cape Town is the super chic design hotel. It's like in an old factory, but it's got huge windows really nicely designed.

and Singita Le Bombo in a Kruger, Sabi Sands is like amazing. So I always recommend South Africa. There's culture, there's, you know, food and wine and everything. Also one of my favorite trips, and for West Coasters, it's Tahiti's eight hours from L.A. And so Bora Bora is stunning, you know, you can use points to St. Regis and the Conrad are both really good hotels. But what I recommend is the island of Morrea. It's a smaller, you know, it's a small little island. And unlike Borobora where all the hotels are on, pretty much you have to get a boat and they're all separate.

Moraya, and if you love whales from July through October, it's whale season. But it's one of the only places in the world where they'll let you actually get in the water with the humpbacks. You can snorkel with humpback whales and Tahiti. And all I can tell you is, you know, you kind of, you got your fins, but I had this experience with like a mother humpback whale like 15 feet away from him. We just like, pull that clip. I have pictures of it. It's insane. I had this experience with a mother humpback whale

I'm pulling that out of context I'm just putting it out I mean when you're snorkeling in the Pacific you see a humpback below it's like a submarine It's a little bit it's not for the faint of heart I'll say But Tahiti's just I mean you don't have to swim with the humpbacks But it's could they eat you? No but but I have a video where I was go proing for a friend

Who loves whale she was in the hospital I'm like hey like and then literally at the very end of the video One breeches probably go 150 feet in front of me but just goes into the air Boom and I'm like If that was me underneath it. Like,

I'd be, you know. All I can imagine is Pinocchio. Yeah. Like when the whale ate. There was a story last summer that a fisherman, like a lobster fisherman was in the water and a humpback, like swallowed them and spit them out.

But I think that was started to get, I think it got disputed. Okay. Well, I need to know if humpbacks can eat you. But anyways. Well, the humpbacks are what you're worried about. These sharks follow the humpbacks that are, the guides that you're with have rods.

And if these sharks come up to you, they're actually, they're like dogs. They're curious. And as long as you smash. them in the face with the rod, they'll go away. But if you don't see them and they come up, they'll like actually start eating you. So you just have to always, maybe I'm not selling this whale experience in Tahiti, am I? Yeah. Lauren, I mean, I wouldn't want you to gar me with a rod.

Like, does you get in honey with the bags on the air? Yeah, I'm sure she'd be really attentive under there. She's like, I got my headphones on. My noise cancelling headphones on with my glass and champagne. So I want to tell the audience what it's like to sell a company. Yes. I mean, that's a big deal that you did that. What did that process look like?

And what's your, what's your after selling the company life? Well, I'm in a really unique. So I sold it in, so June 2010, I start blogging. March of 2011 is when I start monetizing. And it was like incredible, like life changing. And it was May of 2012 that a friend of said, hey, you should meet this guy. The company was called bankrate and bankrate.com is like the top site for mortgages. And they own credit cards.com.

And they, unbeknownst to me, they were like, well, the points guys is niche luxury vertical that we're going to acquire. So I actually didn't even use an investment bank. It was me negotiating with the CEO for six weeks. And it was like the most stressful and sane six weeks of due diligence. And when you're selling a company, you go through highs and lows. And I'm thankful for the experience. I wouldn't, you know, at age 28 or 29, it was kind of like, you know, I went from making like 70,000 a year in HR to now being a media CEO. and I had no investors, so it was like, it was amazing.

It was a life-changing deal for me. And so many people now will say, well, don't you regret selling because the company now has got 120 employees and it's very successful. But so many of my entrepreneur friends told me, like, take the money off the table, especially for your first thing that I had no idea. I mean, it was just this rocketing rise. I thought for sure it was going to come to an end. So I know, I would always just say I leaned a lot on entrepreneurs who had done it before to and try to get as much advice as possible. But choose the right partner because I sold to Bankrupt 10 years ago.

We were acquired by Red Ventures in 2017. And I just signed a five-year deal to stay on. And also I would say is you don't need to be the CEO in charge of everything. Like, yes, the point sky is my baby and my brand, but it's grown so much now that I think my biggest two years ago when the pandemic hit, I realized like I hate managing people. Like I love people. I'm not the greatest manager in the world. Do you think you would have scaled it to what it is now if you didn't?

I definitely, I mean, I had no, you know, I was a Spanish major. My first job was a buyer for Lord and Taylor. I ended up working in HR to bank. Like, so I was never like the hard, like, I'm an entrepreneur, the mechanics. Like, I'm a creative. I love storytelling. I love. I'm a salesperson.

Like, there's a lot of things that I love, but like the mechanics of the business. And I think if I did have all of that, I probably would have taken investors and taken a different route. But I have no regrets on what it is. But if you're going to sell your business, I mean, I've just been lucky to have really good partners. Like, after I sold the points guy, they were basically like, just do whatever you want for years. But Red Ventures has taken us to another level because they had tons of engineering expertise that's really allowed it to grow. Yeah, it is like one of the, if not the premier travel blog site platform in the world, yeah? Yeah, it's kind of crazy to think about.

We actually just the com score just came out and now we're above. I think CNN travel might be above us or USA. It depends on how you rank it. But when you think about like a singular site, we're by far the most profitable by many, many margins. So there's a lot of ways to measure success in the business. But it is kind of, I pinch myself, you know, when we surpassed, you know, Kani Nas Traveler in traffic several years ago.

And it's like these magazines that I read growing up. And it's like, wow, this little blog that I created now is like this little powerhouse. Well, I think it's such an interesting story for people to hear because, you took this niche and this passion that seemed maybe small to you at the time. Like, oh, I like booking travel and I like credit cards and figure out points. And you've turned into this massive platform.

And I think that's what the internet has done for some of people. It's democratized things. Things that could only be small things before can now be huge things. Yeah. Right? Like you did, if you started doing this in 1990, but I mean, or 90s,

but like 1970, like it just, there's no way. Yeah, yeah to scale it. I remember my dad said, Brian, you need to learn how to make money in your sleep.

And that's when I was doing, because I would come up from work. I'd be doing these bookings. And then I actually call it my phone sex operator phase. I was charging people $100 an hour to speak to me on the phone and I would give them travel tips. But that was like so hard to scale and, you know, in a direct to consumer business, there was. So yeah, being able to create content that today right now are content's monetizing all across, you know, it's been a really interesting journey to create a digital content.

But by leveraging affiliate. And in 2011, affiliate was kind of looked down on as like scammy, right? But now you see almost every major news network that today. show has a shopping platform and there's nothing wrong with it as long as you're giving value to the consumer. Brian Kelly, the points guy, you're unbelievable. Where can everyone find you? What are you working on? What should they sign up for? Give us the details. Well, you know, the points guy.com on and the points guy on all social channels, but I'm personally Brian Kelly on Instagram. That's my personal travels. That's where I update with hard hitting news like Starbucks mobile ordering, which is now

available in airports, which I just used today. Oh, yeah, it's major. You can order. You can order your Starbucks in an airport and have it waiting for you? Oh yeah, baby. And I highly recommend the wait times are long. Do it when you're going through security or even before. Because throughout the pandemic with staffing shortages, the Starbucks, I've been in line. I'm like, I might miss my flight. I need this cold brew. Michael wants to slit his wrist every time I get in line at Starbucks. The original founder CEO stepping back in to write the ship again. Oh, really? I think he's like, hey, we need to get Starbucks back on the map. I think the mobile ordering should help get them there. But no, I'm excited. I'm working on a TV show now. I'm rep by WM. We've

talking to a lot of really interesting people. So I'm excited to kind of bring the points in travel world and to do a travel show that like actually teaches you how to travel instead of just showing up in an exotic location and showing cool stuff. Like I want to get more people into points because it is such a no-brainer. Thank you for coming on. Come back anytime. Next time you come on. You got to bring Claude from the morning toast. That's that would be she's my best friend and I mean it would be a diabolical episode. I think we got to do it. We love a diabolical episode. We love having her on too. Next, when we come to New York, let's do a for some.

Let's do it. And also I invited you guys. I have a new horse farm in New Hope, Pennsylvania. And I have a mini horse named Ginger Spice. Who's like the sassiest bitch in the world. She's like becoming a star in the internet. And I think you guys would hit it off with her. I would love to ride her.

It'll be just like riding on an airplane. Zaza definitely can't. Oh, I can't ride her. It's a mini horse, learn. Oh, it's a mini horse. Okay. You're better with the humpback whale. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you so much for having. Thank you, man. Do you want to win a goodie bag? All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostick. As always, thank you guys so much for listening. Things are going on postpartum with the hair. You know that. You've heard me bitch about it.

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