The Bossticks - The Secrets To A Long Happy Life Ft. MindBodyGreen Founders Jason & Colleen Wachob

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

#591: Today we're sitting down with husband & wife, Jason and Colleen Wachob. They are the co-founders and co-CEOs of mindbodygreen, one of the leading brands dedicated to wellness, and more recently, they co-authored a book The Joy of Well-Being: A Practical Guide to a Happy, Healthy, and Long Life that has all the tips & tricks on leading a more health-conscious life. We cover a lot in the episode— the benefits of day drinking, the dangers of loneliness, the importance of breath, why you should be critical of the info you're taking in, how much protein you actually need and why you should lift weights, birth control, IVF and male infertility issues, and the secret to a long and happy life. Please welcome Colleen and Jason to the show. To connect with Jason Wachob click HERE To connect with Colleen Wachob click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Athena Razors Club Switch to the better razor & show your skin you care with Athena Club. You can find Athena in-store at Target nationwide. This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated organic formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase at cymbiotika.com This episode is brought to you by the Clean Simple Eats Clean Simple Eats protein powder is non-GMO, gluten-free, 3rd party tested, always grass-fed and made with zero artificial ingredients. You can get 20% off your first order by using code SKINNY at checkout at cleansimpleeats.com . This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby Use code code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off all Dreamland Baby Co items at dreamlandbabyco.com This episode is brought to you by eBay Ensure your next purchase is the real deal with eBay Authenticity Guarantee. Everyone deserves real. Visit ebay.com for terms. This episode is brought to you by Stitch Fix Stitch Fix is the best way to discover new styles and brands just for you. Visit stitchfix.com/skinny and get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a dear media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her.

We have such a complicated relationship with the word wellness. When we look at how it's reflected in society, comes from this place of restriction and what can I take out? We wanted to shift the conversation to a world of abundance and bring some joy back into all of this. What's the point of being around a living to a hundred if you're not having fun? I think so much of this conversation is about rigidity, as Colleen saying, and eliminating things from your diet, being so rigid, you know, the protocols. I got to do the hot and the cold in the morning sunlight.

And then it's like two hours have passed. My wife's filing for divorce in the morning. Like, you can't live this way. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. Today we're sitting down with another husband and wife duo, Jason and Colleen Washup of Mind, Body Green. We have been trying to get this duo on the show for years now. We've had an incredible time getting to know them and we really love this episode. They are such a wealth of knowledge. And like us, there are a couple that also has worked together, killed it together and is building an incredible life together. Some of the

things we get into in this show are the dangers of loneliness, the importance of breath, avoiding doctors turn celebs, and why you need to be critical of where you get your information. We also talk about diet, exercise, the importance of resistance training. This is a very much a wellness focus episode. And Lauren and I learned a lot, as we always do on the show. We really enjoy talking to Jason and Colleen. They're a wealth of knowledge, like I said, and they've built an incredible business talking all about this kind of stuff. We also get into the secret to a long happy life. Colleen's experience with birth control, male contribution to fertility issues and IVF. We really covered the gambit with these two. With that, Jason and

Colleen, welcome with the skinny confidential, him and her show. This is the skinny confidential, him and her. Okay, so why should we be drinking margaritas in the middle of the day, as opposed tonight? Talk to me about that. Do you want to take that one, Colleen? I mean, I'm giving everyone here permissions to day drink. I am someone who has struggled with sleep for over 20 years, literally was in the hospital in my 20s when I couldn't sleep for like three nights in a row where the doctor gave me a Xanax, which is where my sleep etiquette kind of started and stopped in the hospital. So I've kind of been obsessed with sleep since that happened. And I did wear an aura ring for about two weeks. I found it made me a little anxious about my sleep, so I don't wear it, even though

Jason loves wearing it. But it was great to see the data around alcohol and sleep. I don't think the answer is let's not drink. Let's not, you know, toast with our friends. For me, the answer's been, let's bring the margaritas earlier into the day so that it has less than an impact on my sleep. And I love to be that person at brunch that's ordering a margarita at noon. Obviously, if you don't drink, don't start. But if you do drink, enjoy it in the company of friends. And be prepared for, you know, I'm a guy who's wearing an oar and a whip. And last night we came into Austin for the first time in two years. We wanted to have dinner and sit at the bar like a normal couple does, things we don't do with little children. And they had a great cock.

I'm like, I'm going to have a drink. I'm going to be fully prepared for a terrible aura and whoop score. And that's okay. I love sitting at the bar with as a couple. That is so underrated. More people need to do that. I always tell Michael how fun it is to sit at the bar and eat dinner. Because you could talk with the bartender a little bit. Like if you're getting a little boring for me, Michael, you can just offset the conversation a little. And also it's, it, there's something about sitting up that's sexy. I think it takes us back to pre-kids dating life. Yeah, huge one. I mean, that's a tip in itself. So you guys told us off air that you are exploring more about connection. And you talked about how you do have a TV in your room. Talk to us about that.

It all goes back to sleep, right? And one of the most important things when you struggle with sleep that you hear and you're like, oh, crap, that's so obnoxious, where you have to let go over the anxiety about getting a good night's sleep. And when you struggle with sleep, you hear those words and you're like, you just get like all this frustration. But I've actually found that to be true and getting to a place where you can still enjoy going to bed and having it not be something that stresses you out. So we totally break all the sleep etiquette rules in the sense that we love watching TV in bed. And it takes us away from work and we travel to, you know, these wonderful non-wellnessy destinations. We get to fully unwind and learn stuff. You know, right now it's been a lot of Netflix Formula One, a world that's super new to us.

and also super fascinating. And it helps me relax. And I think with regards to connection, you know, it's been 14 years since we, to my buddy, Green. Well,

we've seen, yeah, it's been, it's been a minute. We've seen quite a bit. And our world has come so far. And we would all agree that, you know,

nutrition and exercise are foundational. You know, you got to eat right. You got to work out. You got to move. But where we sit today, there is a lowliness epidemic. The health implications,

I think are more serious than I think we're beginning to understand how serious they are. Free COVID in 2019, there was a study out of Cigna that said half of Americans, only half of Americans have meaningful IRL daily connection. Pre-COVID, 2019. Imagine what that looks like today. Today, if you look at the loneliness epidemic, we're off the COVID levels where I think it was almost a quarter of all Americans were lonely, now that number is 17%. but almost a quarter of young adults, under 30, are lonely. Now, if you think about, okay, what are the health implications of this?

If you are lonely, that, if you look in terms of whether risks for premature, being lonely is equated with smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So, okay, 15 cigarettes a day, I'm lonely. It is also, you are, it is twice as worse. being lonely is twice as worse as having six drinks a day. That's 42 drinks a week. I mean, as you're probably going to explain it, but why does it equate to that? So let me go down the list and I'll come back to it. So then, so we've got smoking, drinking, then lack of physical activity, it is three times as worse. Being lonely is three times is

worse. And then obese, being obese, being lonely is four times as worse as being obese. And so if you go back to like the mental health epidemic, when people lose heart, hope, when they lose connection, there are serious consequences for our health and well-being. And it's something we don't talk enough about. Like we've all, you know, someone's ever struggle with their mental health. Like, that's really hard to regain. And when you're lacking that connection, all sorts of things start to go wrong in the body. You know, there are studies that will say essentially exercise and nutrition can lower your risk for premature death, more or less the same, the 20, 40% range. But having a real meaningful relationships, being a loving

partnership can lower premature death by 45%. And so this is out there. The studies are there. And like, we are lacking connection. We're lacking joy. We need to have fun. We need to be with each other. I think we've learned the hard way. I think that that makes total sense because normally people who are elderly are alone and they obviously end up dying. And I look at some elderly people and a part of that probably is because they're lacking connection. My grandmother passed away in 90 and she was constantly on the move with tons of friends and working with me and we had sushi nights and she was, she constantly had connection. And then I look at someone else's grandmother who's sort of locked in the house and hibernates and gorophobic and they end up dying

sooner. So that makes total sense. Do you think that the reason that we're seeing such surge in loneliness is because of social media? I think it's all the above. I think it's social media. I think it's the lockdowns. I think we've, so many of the younger generation have lost the art of communication. I think it's one out of seven women don't have a single friend. See, that's one out of seven men don't have a single friend. One out of 10 women don't have a single friend. If you think about that, it's sad. And I hate to be ages. We're all relatively the same age. Oh, you guys are much younger than us. Not too much younger though. Like, what is it? Maybe I'm 48. Okay. So like a decade. Colleen's 43. Well, you'd be 44 in a month.

Okay. Do not add numbers to my age. She's 43. Do not add numbers. I'll be 49 in November. So you can add to me to 12. But I think, but we are one of of the last kind of, we're in the same generation, last generation to kind of grow up prior to having phones, social media, all these things. Like you kind of had to figure out all your social interactions. Like Lauren and I got our smart smartphones when we graduated college. So basically grew up, you know, without all these things. So you actually had to have a human interaction. If I wanted to meet a girl, I had to actually go speak to somebody. If I wanted to have a friend, I actually had to go meet up with them and do things. I think so many people now, they just like,

it's at their fingertips, especially when it comes to dating. You're just like swiping and tapping and all these things. And I'm not opposed to these. things, but I do think it makes some of these human interactions a little bit artificial. And I talk to our younger siblings and some of their friends, and they're complaining about these things that just weren't issues when we were coming up. And even, you know, we're joking that I'm telling people to get back in the office, but there's a lot of young people that work in the company. I'm like, listen, I know you like the lifestyle of having the flexibility of wanting to be at home, but there's something to be said about being around other people and going to lunch and

getting coffee and getting drinks and going and like, even if you're wasting time and you feel like that meeting's kind of useless. It's about being around other people. 100%. My all-time favorite study, which is in the book, is the Rosetta study. And Rosetta was a small town

in rural Pennsylvania in the 1950s. In the 1950s, this is when heart disease arrives in America, the exception of Rosetto. Men under 55 had half the rate of cardiovascular disease than the rest of America. No, sorry, 65 half the rate

under 55 non-existent. No, heart disease. By the way, you are phenomenal remembering stats, but keep going. It's all the caffeine I drink. I'm also very, very pro-black coffee. That should be in the book. Keep going. I don't want to do that. But I'm just saying, tequila and mescal last night. So it's working for me. You know, sorry, Dr. Amen. So, and so they took a look at Rosetta. What are these people doing? Are they doing NAD injections? Or they, you know, what, you know, I'm joking. It's 1950s. They are drinking. They are smoking, they are having meatballs, they are having pasta, and they're like puzzled. Like,

we don't get it. They're doing all the things you shouldn't do. They take a closer look. These people have like the strongest social connections. Multigenerational living was paramount. Grandparents were living with grandchildren. They were the drinking and the smoking was in celebration. You know, they were parades and parties. People were knocking on each other's doors. And that was the context for this. And guess what? 1960s comes. Community starts to break apart. People move away. Heart disease catches up with the national average and Rosetto. If you think about it, like, that's a pretty unbelievable experiment, and we kind of did the opposite of that in the last couple of years. And I think for me, that's a good reminder.

Because, look, I like the gadgets, the things. I got the aura. I got the whip. I've tried all the diets. Like, I like working out and trying to, you know, gain lean muscle mass right now as I'm starting to age and shrink. But it's something I need to think about. This is my theory with it. I think that there are so many different ways to get a hold of people now. text message, WhatsApp, email, Skype, Zoom, like Facebook, FaceTime, Instagram DM. That by the end of the day, people are fucking tired. And they need to recharge their energy because all day long has been interaction. The problem is it's not human interaction.

It's digital interaction. So when I think of myself, like, why don't I go out all the time with my friends? It's because by the end of the day, I've engaged with so many different people, you know, also with what we do with podcasting, that I need to recharge my battery alone. I think that there's something to be said that maybe people just have so much interaction all day long and so much simulation all day long that they almost get lonely at night because they're tired. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think we're just led to believe that a digital interaction is the same as a human interaction. It sounds like it's not.

Sounds like it's not as true. You know, there's data that, you know, when you actually get a hug from someone, it creates different brain waves and more oxytocin than when someone says, you know, I'm giving you a virtual hug. A hug and a virtual hug are not the same thing from a brain standpoint and the emotions that we're feeling, you know, as part of that human interaction. And we throw around words as if they're interchangeable. I have a community. Okay, a community in a digital community is so different than a community of people who are IRL there to support you and be with you and be that call at 12 at night when shit has hit the fan. Yeah, I'll tell you, I mean, I know we had you guys come travel in person, but when Lauren and I have tried to do these kind of things remote,

like you can go look at any of the ones we've done to run in the rare now, but they're just not as impactful. They're not as good because I don't, we don't have this to play off of. I don't see see the person. I feel. I'm looking at this screen. I'm kind of like you go. I go. I go. I can see you lap, I could see what's landing, what's not landing. I can like see your body movement. And I think again, people are missing that when they go and they focus on all these different kind of digital interactions and they don't actually get out and meet people in person. I think also in the dating world when you've pre-faced all of this and you're like swiping and talking online, like you haven't had that, you haven't had that spark to see like is there actual human chemistry here? And then people

are let down. It's like, oh, I like what this person said and who knows how long it takes him to come up with that response. I talk to my friends and they're sitting here. They have a whole group of eight people that are coming up with the response to one girl. I'm like, guys, you know, see what it's like to actually just go out and riff with somebody. But I think it's important. I don't know if we're going to get back to that place because the more abundant these platforms become, I just feel like the more people are going to lean into them. Yeah. Look, I don't think the, we're not anti-technology or anti-social media. I think they're wonderful tools for connection with maybe the exception of TikTok. I do not have that on my phone. But I don't know.

But I think, you know, what we need now, you know, I'll take a step back. And within social media, you know, we've got nutrition influencers, we've got fitness, we've got all types of influencers. Like, what about like connection influencers? Like, how do we leverage this for good? You know, it's so clear we need to get out. We need to meet people. We need to be out in the real world, like having eye contact, like hugging people.

We need to do more of that. Like, we'd love to create a conversation so that happens. Because I think we're just so hurting for connection. And we are always optimist, but when you look at the data around kids, you guys know we have two girls, six and four. And, you know, why we're so frightened of these wonderful little humans becoming teenagers is really because of the social media impact. And it impacts girls more than boys, although there's tons of data on how hard it is to be a boy right now, too. It's just really hard to be a human. But, you know, about 40 percent of teenagers suffer from loneliness. It's hiring girls, about 60 percent. I'm optimistic that we're going to understand. understand that the impact of social media on kids is equivalent as tobacco. In the same way, you're not going to, you know, give your 13-year-old some cigarettes to smoke. We're not going to be given our kids' phones, hopefully, when our kids become of age because the data is just becoming so clear where you just can't ignore it. So what's the solution? I wish I had it. The answer isn't

that social media is going away. Like there's such a huge boom in creators. 40% of Gen Z wants to be a creator now. Creators aren't going away. Influencers aren't going away. Social media is not going away. I just think we need to give our kids the tools to understand how to interact better with it. Because we just kind of gave them this amazing technology, lots of cool, shiny, bright objects, and then expected them to be able to control these super addictive, addictive apps. And we need to give them better tools. We need to teach them critical thinking in school so they understand, you know, how they should be interacting. And I think one of the takeaways is rather simple and this is something I've had to work on. So I've definitely men are worse. Men are proven

to be worse than women in keeping in touch with friendships. I go back to my 20s, you know, New York, all the guys I played basketball with in college. We go out all the time and that was great. Then the 30s happened and then get married and then kids and then boom, you lose touch. And happens to men all the time. We're terrible. And I think it's as simple as this is where use technology for good. A long time ago, you'd actually have to pick up the phone and like call someone and then wait, hello, who is this? You know, prank caller, prank caller. Now, like, it's a text message. Hey, so and so. It's been a long time. Thought of you for X, Y, and Z. How are you? Would love to catch up. It's as simple as that I'm reaching out. I think you'd be surprised

by the response. And, you know, I think approach people, you know, with empathy. A lot of people are suffering. And I think it's good to check in. This is an important conversation. I love it. You guys have had access to some incredible people being the co-founders of mind, body green. Out of all the people that have come on your platform that you guys have interviewed, what are some really great wellness tips that people can implement into their self-care if they're feeling down? I think maybe start with breaths since that's the first chapter of the book. And I think, you know, I think of the biggest objection people have to health and wellness is I don't have the time. I don't have the resources. And it's like, we get it. This is one of the

reasons the why behind the book because we started to feel this way. It's like, we're in this business. We don't have the time for everything. We like. We like. all the stuff. And if you think about it, breath from a pure ROI standpoint is an amazing place to start. If you don't breathe, you're going to die, probably after a few minutes. Maybe some people on the show can maybe do like seven or eight minutes, but a couple of minutes I'll be gone. You breathe 17 or 30,000 times a day. So you're doing it no matter what. And half the population is breathing wrong in that they're breathing through their mouth. You are more prone to anxiety when you're breathing through your mouth. You are more prone to suck in germs when

you're breathing through your mouth. And nasal breathing is an amazing tool. I think we could all benefit from, you know, our male listeners, you know, just shutting the mouth sometimes when the partners, the wife or girlfriend. Literally shut the mouth at all times. Yeah, it's just a fantastic therapy tool. Every time you're annoying, I'm going to say, breathe a high. I just suffer from loneliness. Loneliness I could not suffer from with my husband. I'm the opposite of lonely with him. So maybe sometimes I'll just tell you to breathe through your nose and shut your mouth. No, no, I read the reviews and they say they love it when I interrupt Lauren. That's like all the reviews say that.

So Colleen can finish the fantastic benefits on breathwork and I'll just zip it and do some nasal breathing. No, I mean, I think one of the wonderful secondary benefits of nostril breathing and there's so many great reasons to do it from like an immune response standpoint is really because it activates your parisempathetic nervous system. So the rest and digest system. And we talk about the anxiety epidemic. If you want to tune into feeling a little bit more calm, like nostril breathing is the

easiest place to start. And I like it because I, too, got, you know, perhaps frustrated with a lot of the more popular meditation and breathwork techniques that require 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes at night, which was wonderful before I had kids, but perhaps not as applicable at this life stage. So when there's something, you can actually activate when you're in a meeting, when you're in one of those, like, tense situations that you didn't plan for, that you weren't anticipating. Love it. I also think that there's ways to get crazy. creative when people say I don't have time. So you guys are telling me that breathing through your nose is incredible. Okay. So let's say I say I don't have time. Then tape your mouth shut at night.

Last night I taped my mouth shut the entire night. And for me, it's like I'm multitasking while I'm or passively multitasking why I'm sleeping. You're obviously going to sleep. If you want to implement more nasal breathing, tape your mouth shut. There's ways to like, or I'll give you another one. Today I made the bed and also oil pulled at the same time. I'm doing two things at once. Like, I think there's ways when people say they don't have time, I sort of, to be honest, think that's a little bit of an excuse. I think there's ways to make time for little moments throughout the day. Totally. We're all about integration. We are low on time as a family, as a couple. But I also see that the way you see health and wellness on social media assumes that a lot of people have a lot of

to do this stuff. You know, a morning routine is glorified where you're like, it's like 40 minutes. And fantastic if you have, you know, the time to do it. Are you guilty of that Lord? No, but I fall into your camp because I'm the guy, I'm the one, you know, I maybe get a little busier in the day. And so in the morning, I take on the kids and I let her kind of have her time. Like morning time is when I, you know, I make them breakfast and I run around. I deal with the chaos of school and all that stuff. That's a wonderful concept. He's a great, a great dad. I don't feel bad. I carried them for 10. But she's doing it at other times.

But I think to myself, like, I don't have the time anymore to have these extensive morning routines, at least until they get a little older and contrast themselves. You do little things, though. No, no, but I do. So that's what I'm saying somewhat what you're saying is I try to find the little pockets where I could do something quickly for five minutes or while I'm doing something else. You know, I think we're big believers in editing and not adding. You know, I think it requires taking an honest look at your lifestyle, you know, work, family

commitments and trying to fit things in and make wellness work for you and not. you work for wellness. I think January 13th was National Quidders Day at the gym this past year. So why is that? Everyone gets excited. They go to the gym. They make these extraordinary commitments that have no basis in reality with their life. And that's it. It's over. So like do the inventory. Where do I have the time? Where do I have the pockets? And you can find them. You just may have to be a little bit creative. And I also think, you know, why we called the book, The Joy of Wellbeing? Like, I'm a big believer. If it doesn't bring you joy, you're not going to do it. I hate running. If you see me running, call the police because I am in trouble.

I'm not going to do it. You know, I enjoy walking. I take the stairs everywhere. So, like, that's something that brings me joy. Of all the things you guys have seen running mind, body green for the last 14 years, what are some of the things that have maybe stuck? Like, are there things that you're like, hey, we've been doing this now for close to 15 years and that just stuck and things that you kind of maybe started doing like, hey, that's not sustainable?

In terms of content, I'll take food, for example. You know, we have a chapter of food in the book and that one that we've seen, so many, I'd say diets come and go. And I think where everyone can agree and where we agree is essentially eating a whole foods diet and avoiding ultra processed foods. That's like a big one where I think everyone can more or less agree. And that's what we believe is foundational. Anything else, I think we believe in bioindividuality. You believe in doing like some basic blood work and getting understanding of like your risk factors. There are some people. So like our mutual friend marks Marxist and Marks 69, he looks amazing, he feels amazing. He eats pretty close to a carnival

of a diet. And we have our other friend, Rich Rolls, 56, and basically 100% plant based. And he looks amazing and feels amazing. So who's to say like one's right, the other's wrong? I think there was a lot of that a couple years ago. And I think most people have come around this idea of like understand your genetics and your blood work and your risk factors, but eat whole foods. That's one thing, I think. The food conversations almost feels like political, right or left. It is like, Why can't, like, can we just all agree that everyone is different and, like, how their, how their digestion is different? There was a concept that I started talking about a lot during COVID, and I was pretty unapologetic about it. And I said, basically, like, extremes get answered with other extremes.

And I think that doesn't just happen in politics, it's in food. We got, we went so far extremes of these documentaries on plant base. Now we're going so far extreme with carnivore. Yeah. It's just, it's just a pendulum sweet. I have a lot to say on this. Go. So we, I'll just want to, the, the, what, there's a stat we have in.

the book on media and how media rewards extremes. And we referenced a study that Wharton did on the most emailed articles in New York Times, essentially like the most widely read articles in the world. Wiley read articles in the world. And they classify the articles by emotion. And the top three emotions were anxiety, awe, and anger. Guess what number one was. Anger.

Anger increased virality by 34%. In other words, if someone read an article in the New York Times and that article, cause that person to be angry, it was 34% more likely to go viral. I don't think the New York Times is unique. I think this is media in general. I get it, extremes play, and that's the world we live in. And if you're building a personal brand, you're talking about food. How many Mediterranean diet influencers, you know, say like have some olive oil, a little wine, maybe some sourdough occasionally. I don't see a lot of those. It's, you know, it's full on, you know, carnivore or full on vegan. We don't like nuance. I also think that there's an element to it of people,

having it as a part of their identity. That is exactly what's happening. And there was a Harvard study that as people moved away from organized religion, they applied this exact same fervor, passion, and when it goes awry, tribalism to their wellness practices. You see it play out. You mention nutrition. We say it play out now in Pilates,

where we're getting spicy and heated in the comments when someone suggests that Pilates is not going to give you enough muscle strength to protect yourselves from sarcopenia. It's just gone too far where people wrap it up their identity. And you know, we always say the only thing to be rigid about is being flexible. The science changes, your body changes. As you go through different seasons and decades of life, you respond to different things and your philosophies are going to grow and evolve, I hope. To your point, I'm not going to eat the same way that I ate a week postpartum with my baby as I do

now. It's going to be maybe more warming after I have a baby and maybe more soups and maybe now I'm eating more meat. Like, I just think like, you're right. It's different. seasons, it's being fluid, it's being flexible with it. And people do take their diet and their fitness as a religion. It's like a religious, it's almost like they transferred the energy towards religion to diet and fitness. Because they've made it part of their self and their identity. And if you question, if you question that practice or process, you're questioning them as a person. Yeah. And you know, like I think about, you know, running media businesses, you guys may relate to this and doing this show, I think the low-hanging fruit for us, if we wanted to, quote, unquote,

go more viral or capture more listeners would be to plant a flag in one of these sands, right? Like, if it was political, maybe I'm going to go super right or super left. Like, you know that that's going to garnish the most attention. If it was a diet thing, you'd say, I'm going to go super plant-based or super-carc. Like, Lauren and I think about that all the time. Like, there are things that could for sure light this on fire in a much different way if you just went to an extreme because you know, like, that's the stuff that plays. but I think it's much harder to have nuance

and try to have well-rounded conversations. 100%. I think we have similar conversations as... Listen, and I think like this is, there's a balance here where I personally kind of disregard creators or people on television if they have, if I can look at them and say, okay, I know which way they're going to go in any,

it's like, for example, if you take a political issue and I can basically look at you, okay, well, you're going to just go down the line on these issues to the right or to the left. I can't then take you seriously as a person because I don't trust that you might look at the world in a different way if you were presented with different information. Does that make sense? I can look at some of these. Like if you're plant-based and I present you information about, hey, maybe this study that was done

on meat's good for you, but because your identity is so stuck in plant-based, you'll disregard. Then I can't trust you as a person because I've realized that you're unwilling to look at any other data outside of the data you like. Same with someone who's meat-based. If they look at plant-based data, if they look at someone like a rich role and say, well, how do you answer this guy's lifestyle and see why he's in such good shape, and they disregard that. I'm like, well, I can't trust you either. And the same with politicians. If you're, if I can predict right away where you're going to stand, then I just can't trust you on anything else. We're all living in our own echo chambers of the algorithms that we live in. And, you know, we often say if we were individuals, like, we see the

incentive to just go super hard on an issue and not waiver and speak to your base because unfortunately that is what's being rewarded right now in the algorithms. Yeah, I mean, we, sometimes I'll see, like we'll have a guest on that people don't think we would have on. And I see some people that think we're a certain way get enraged by this. I can't believe you would give this person a platform. I can venture a guest. I can. Yeah, and there's a few people like that.

And I go, guys, like, the last person I ever want to be is the person that you can predict. Like, if you can, if at any point in time, you think I'm just going to always vote or look or think a certain way, then I'm not an evolved person. I've failed myself to, I failed myself as an individual to look at more data. information and create a more well-rounded version of myself. Like, I want to know, even if it's somebody I disagree with, why they think that way, because maybe I'm missing something. So a practice we did, I don't know if this was good for a sleep, but around the election,

Colleen and I would spend our time at 9 o'clock going, flipping from CNN to MSNBC to Fox. Just like, want to understand what's going on here? What's everyone saying? Wasn't good for a sleep. I would not recommend that. But it was like helpful. And I don't think most people do that. And obviously, we're not in the, you know, we're not in politics.

but I think it holds true to health and wellness. People aren't open to different points of view. What did Denzel Washington say again? If you watch the news. If you watch the news, if you don't watch the news, you're not informed. If you watch the news, you're misinformed. That's a good line. You know what my favorite thing about you is?

Yeah, I ask you. I take my content that I tell you and then pre-package it to yourself. I literally just asked you because you told me it the other day. One time he told my best friend a story with all the details. story that she had told him months before. Yeah, I made it my story. Well, I was trying to tell. No, I didn't make it my story.

I was trying to. Be suspicious when he told the story. I was trying to tell a story that she told me. Sorry, I didn't say it happened to me. I said, hey, I heard the story, but I forgot she told me the story. This was at a time in my life when I would say I was night and day drinking. You guys talk or you mention avoiding doctors turn celebrities. Can you elaborate on this?

It's funny. You bring that up. Because when we were doing a podcast interview with Sarah Godfried, M.D., who I have a ton of respect for, she's like, am I one of the doc stars in your book? And so there's good doc stars and there's bad stars. The answer is no. The answer is no in case there's any ambiguity. We love Sarah Gottfried. But going to our earlier point around people being incentivized to speak to the algorithms, there are some doc stars out there who will just beat that drum, whether the science evolves, whether it's not something that's the right information for everyone.

because they, you know, have the same flawed incentive structure where they are just going to go deep, deep, deep with one point of view. So I think we have to be critical of everything and every place we get our information. And ultimately, when it comes to our own health and well-being, what we encourage is to be your own, your own CEO of your own health and well-being. You can see the best doctors. You can see the best practitioners, the best healers. But ultimately, you are the only person that knows what's best for your body. You know what else I noticed too along to what you're saying is that a lot of celebrities will use a doctor to promote their agenda, which then makes the doctor famous.

So let's say a celebrity wants to launch a line of herbs. They'll get an herbalist to be their doctor. They'll promote the herbalist. And then they'll use the herbalist that they promoted, who they've then made famous, to promote the herbs that they're launching. It's very manipulative. Yeah. They'll use the doctor to content market

whatever they want to sell to the masses because they use the doctor as another sort of layer of credibility. Yeah, and doctors are humans, you know. And look, some doctors are great and very credible and everything they promote they believe in. But I think that's been around. I remember watching infomercials as a kit, you know, here's a doctor and I'm wearing my white coat.

And here's the, you know, Chuck Norris. like there have been so many celebrities who've done this. And look, I trust check Norris completely. I'm just kidding. But, you know, it is what it is. Doctors are humans too. Yes. Diet exercise routines, you guys have seen it all with your site.

Talk to us about that. What have you found? Overall, we want to shift the conversation to be more about making the cake than the frost. You got to bake the cake before you can. put on the frosting. And we think in general that there's too much signal, too much noise around a lot of the frosting. And don't get us wrong. We sleep on innate sleep. We like frosting in life. We're not saying don't go enjoy your cupcakes. But like you got to focus on the fundamentals. So our own routines are like extraordinarily simple, sometimes because of our time compression

and the life stage we're at. But Jason talked about walking, huge believers in walking. We are now from like a nutrition standpoint. Well, you can speak to that. Yeah, I think the biggest shift that's happened in our 14 years of Mind Buddy Green. So like the why behind my buddy green, yoga saved me from back surgery and kind of opened my eyes. And, you know, dating back to this is 2009, you know, the word wellness really wasn't a word. It was something equated with the spa. And it was through that experience. I went from a guy whose idea of nutrition was Palm and, excuse me, steak and martinis at the Palm Steakhouse.

Like, that was my routine. I consumed so much my faces in the wall next to Adam Sandler and Joe Namath at the mid. town, Palm and Manhattan. Is that true? Yeah. It's insane. I'm still there. See what it looked like at 27.

Much fuller face, a lot of vodka. Still eat meat, but not as much, so forth. So at any rate, it was that experience. Like everyone's got wellness wrong. True well-being is this fundamental, physical, spiritual, emotional, and environmental well-being. My mind but agreeing one word, not three. And so like yoga was like everything. We talked about yoga.

And I think the biggest evolution was yoga to where we said today is resistance training. As Colleen alluded to, sarcopenia is very real, this idea of losing your lean muscle mass as you age, lose 1% a year, and if you're in your 80s, half the population is living with it. I'm 48, we have two little girls. Men and my family have a terrible track record with regards to longevity.

My father died of heart disease at 47. My other grandfather, heart disease at 49, other grandfather cancer at 44. And so this is something I take really seriously. And the great thing about longevity is, there's so much data and science that, you know, I do believe in epigenetics that we do have the power to turn on and off genes and can live a long healthy life.

And I'm, you know, blessed there. And I think, so I went from yoga to resistance training and the why there is sarcopenia. There's this crazy statistic that a quarter of all Americans over the age of 65 is fall. If you fall and if you fall once, you're twice as likely to fall again. If you fall and break your hip,

there's a 30 to 40% chance you will die within a year. Keep in mind it's not dying from the broken hip. It's all the things that can go wrong. Complications and some surgery, infection, depression, and so on. And so for me, it was like, wow, like I need to, I went from, you know, being a college athlete, being strong, and I kind of lost that with yoga. I had a moment in the process of writing the book where I noticed I lost little weight.

And I'm like, nothing, everything feels the same. And I looked in the mirror. I'm like, oh my God, I got old white man's ass. white man's ass. My ass is like disappearing. Like I need to like get in the gym. And so that like resistance training is a big focus because one, I don't want to wither away. And two, why the resistance training. So let's just pretend you're about to fall. What do you want? You want the mobility so you don't fall. You want the strength so you can grab something or you want the armor so you can break the fall. And we have little kids. You know, I want to be running around and playing with, you know, maybe their

grandchildren and have that mobility and have that strength to pick up like a little 30 pounder and squat. And that like that's a big, we went from yoga to resistance training in our 40s because that's something that's very real and it's harder to put on muscle as you age. What is your resistance training routine? We are lucky that there is a gym across from where we live. That's amazing. So I do like 15 minutes, 15 to 20 minutes, sometimes a little longer when I can. Maybe that's through this week. It'll be three days a week. Sometimes it'll be five. And then when I can't make it, it before. I was a very big believer in just doing stuff at home, like your classic like air squats, sit-ups, push-ups, like make time for it in your day. But I don't think you need to spend an hour or two in

the gym. I really don't. And then like I put on seven pounds of lean muscle in six months. I'm like religious about doing the test and I'm not doing a ton. I'm eating a lot of protein, which is an emotional conversation discussion we can get into. But like I'm focused on it and it's possible. I'm going to put you on to the best razor. So my facialist told me that I needed to basically throw out my leg raisers. She's like, you have to start over. And the one that you have to try is Athena Club's razor. I got it in the mail.

It's thick and beautiful and silicone and all the things that I like. And it doesn't get all goopy after a few uses. There's a lot of razors that I use. and I feel like they just get like slimy. But this razor is so chic. Most importantly, though, and this is my favorite thing about this razor, I've recommended it to all my friends and family,

is it leaves my legs feeling moisturized. There are so many razors on the market that dry out your legs and give you like this weird razor burn. And this one is just like an amazing finish. It gives you zero razor bumps and also just like a super smooth finish. I like the white one. They have other colors, but the white one is so beautiful.

And I also feel like it differentiates itself from Michael's razor. So Michael has his like weird razor and I have my beautiful white sleek one. So they also have like a shaving foam. So if you want to even like up the soft hydrated leg, you could do that. I am a huge fan of this razor. I have text like I said friends and family about it. You can't go wrong. Switch to a better razor and show your skin you care with Athena Club.

Get started today by shopping in store at Target stores nationwide. Just head to the shaving aisle to find the razor kit. Cloud, shave foam, wax strips, and even razor refills. Enjoy. Quick break to talk about being dehydrated, getting headaches, not performing to our optimal state that we can be performing in. This is why I love Element. I woke up this morning with a massive headache because I overtrained you.

yesterday, didn't drink nearly enough water. So what did I do first thing in the morning? I popped a tasty electrolyte drink mixer called Element right into my water, replenish myself, and boom, feeling back to 100%. So what is Element? Like I said, Element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything you need and nothing you don't. That means a lot of salt with no sugar. It contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio of 1,000 milligrams of sodium, 200 milligrams of potassium, 60 milligrams of magnesium with none of the junk, no sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, no gluten, no filler, no BS. Many people don't realize sometimes you need more than just water to hydrate.

Element is formulated to help anyone with their electrolyte needs and is perfectly suited to folks following keto, low-carb, paleo diets, and electrolytes facilitates hundreds of functions in the body, including the conduction of nerve impulses, hormonal regulation, nutrient absorption, and fluid balance. It's an incredible product. I take it every single time I train. So does Lauren. And it's been an absolute game changer in our fitness routine.

And of course, right now, Element is offering our listeners a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single serving packets free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors or share Element with a salty friend. Get yours at DrinkElement.com slash Skinny. This deal is only available through our link. You must go to D-R-I-N-K-L-M-T-com slash Skinny. Element offers no questions asked refunds. Try it totally risk-free.

If you don't like it, share it with a salty friend, and they will give you your money back. No questions asked. You have nothing to lose. DrinkElement.com slash skinny. Symbiotica, one of our favorite brands on the planet. We just had Cherveen, the founder of Symbiotica on this show for the fourth time. I think it's a record. We were trying to figure that out on the show.

How many other guests have been on four times or maybe one, maybe two? And I can't think of them off the top of my mind. But four times, you know, if we're having somebody back that off. it's because they really know their shit. They're very interesting. They have the answers that we're looking for, and symbiotica has become integral to this. We take so many of their products.

We recommend so many of their supplements. One of my favorites is their vitamin D3 and KU10. They have just such an incredible line of supplements. I think the go-to that we were talking about onto the show is even if you're just starting with their vitamin D3 and their B-12 and their magnesium, that is a solid base for anyone to get their foot in the door. What I love about these supplements is you actually eat them.

It's like food. It's not like taking just a pill. You eat this stuff and you actually digest it. So it's a whole different delivery system and you get a ton of benefits from doing so. Symbiotica products are made with the highest quality, bioavailable ingredients and the most advanced delivery system. Like I said, and like always, we have an exclusive discount code for you. Just visit symbiotica.com slash skinny. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-A dot com slash skinny for 15% off-site wide.

If you're just getting started, I would definitely, like I said, start with the vitamin B-12. the vitamin D3 and KU10. I think those are absolute game changers that are going to completely enhance your life. Symbiotica.com slash skinny for 15% offsite wide. Again, symbiotica.com slash skinny for 15% offsite wide. Enjoy. I think, and I keep saying this when we get into this conversation on the show, I say it over and over. I think people are too scared of the scale.

They start looking at the number on the scale. They don't realize when you start to resistance train and put on muscle mass that the scale may actually go up. But that doesn't mean that you're putting on more fat or that you're heavier. from fat is because the muscle is more dense and it weighs more. And I think what people, they're conditioned to be like, I need to be X weighed on a scale. And if I'm over that, I'm not, you know, in good shape. And so I always tell people when they're starting to do this, like, don't not even look at the scale for a while. Like you just want to basically build that

mass and tone up. Because if you're so focused on a number on a scale, you're going to get scared the minute you start to put on muscle mass. And then you're like, oh, I got to stop doing this. Yeah, I'm lucky. I did one of those machines that they do, like your body fat and the whole. Yeah. And I work obviously with a lot of women. I've heard so many women say, I don't want to bulk up or what if I bulk up? Do you know how hard it is? You know how hard I work to try to bulk up? And it's, you know, even with all that time in the gym, it's not easy to put on that quote

unquote bulk. Like it's a myth. I also think girls today, fortunately, are growing up with different role models. We went by our kids high school gym. Girls are in the weight room. This wasn't healthy habits that I saw at a young age that I was thinking about, that I was understanding the importance of muscle. And so I'm just fortunate people are talking about it more and that girls are

developing this happen. Yeah, I think culturally it's okay to be strong as a girl. That wasn't a conversation at all. When I was growing up, and another, you know, more women are more prone. I figure what the statistic is, but way more prone to ACL terrors. And it's because women weren't doing strength training around like the muscles around the knee. So like it's really important.

I'm not saying this is for everyone, but I since giving, actually probably since my daughter was two, I've been weightlifting four times a week. and it has changed my life. I feel so much better. I have more energy. It gives me a dopamine hit. I feel tighter. I feel stronger.

And it's literally like I'll try on pants and it's like shrunk me in a different way than losing weight. It sort of like shrink wraps you. So I mean, again, this might not be for everybody. But as a woman experiencing what weightlifting has done for me

has been incredible. And I lift heavy. I mean, I don't lift like Michael heavy, but I lift heavy for quote unquote a girl. No, but I think it's important conversation because there's a lot of younger people that listen to this show. And to your point, it's much harder for me personally now in my mid-30s to build muscle like I used to when I was in my 20s. And I think the earlier you start and the more you get when you're early, the easier it's going to be for you. And I'm sure you found too. Like as you get older, it gets harder and harder and harder. So I just encourage people to start earlier than they think they need to start because you're just going to get such more, so many more tremendous results. Yeah, and I think for us it's, you know, look, everyone likes to look better and look good and feel, feel strong and muscular. But for us, it's very much about longevity, too. Like, I don't want to be the old guy hunched over. It's like, sorry, I can't play soccer because I can't move.

Yeah. No, kids change it for me because I started, I did this post. I was like, oh, I had like a dad bod with our first kid. It was not a dad bond. It was not. It was not. He thinks it was. I never looked at you like a dad bond.

For me, I felt like it was a dad bod. And I, to your same point, like, I need to be able to pick up my kids. kids and I didn't want to feel like I couldn't do that or I couldn't carry them up the stairs or I couldn't like if they were tired on a walk I couldn't throw them over my shoulder like that to me like I can't imagine how hard it is as a parent when you're out of shape and you can't do those things right like it must make it exponentially harder and you're constantly tired like supreme my god you just got to be in shape to like lug these kids around yes and they want to play with you now yeah that's not probably you know it's easy when they're a baby when they're you know

four years old and when we picked up it's like I got to like I got to dig deep yeah they do I want to play this morning. I woke up with my daughter's eyes open right in my face and she said, Mouth tape off. She literally said, mouth tape off. Are there things that you've both seen as maybe fads or trends or things that were popular that have just kind of gone by the wayside? What I'm excited about that's actually gained momentum is that the spirituality conversation actually has some science behind it. Because I think spirituality has always been a part of wellness that was like, that's woo-woo. You know, what do you believe the power of the crystals are? But one of our coconut grove friends, Dr. Lisa Miller, is P. H.C. at Columbia. And she has done some fascinating

research on the power of spirituality to give it a little bit more science and teeth behind it. That shows that when a mother, and you can substitute mother for parent, caretaker, father, grandparent, when a mother and child are high in spirituality, the child is 80% protected against depression. And what I love is that she has a very generous definition of spirituality. So it could be organized religion, it could be spending time in nature, it could be volunteering, caring for others, picking up trash. It's really just about this belief that there's something bigger than all of us. You know, and I take Dr. Miller's findings as something that you can apply to so many areas of your life. It's like when, you know, you and your child are high in movement, you know, eating healthy,

nutrition, whatever it is. Like there's likely your child's going to be more protected. But for me personally, getting science around spirituality finally has given it a lot more longevity. I think people too also are more open to to nature things like grounding and getting cold and getting hot. Whereas like if you look back 10 years ago, they kind of were like grounding. What are you talking about? Putting your feet on the ground. If I told my dad go put your feet in the sand, you look at me like, he'd probably smack me upside the head and you're an idiot. Yeah, you know, like people are more open to that. I've noticed, even like meditation, I noticed people are more, they let it in their ether. Yeah. You mentioned earlier, you said there was

an emotional conversation around more protein in your diet. What did you mean by that? Yeah, so this is where the science is really strong. If you want to put on muscle, in order to promote muscle protein synthesis, you need to ingest enough protein. And so the current RDA, and I always speaking grams not kilograms because I just can't I can't do it is 0.36 grams per pound and that that is really to survive and not thrive if you're serious about putting on muscle you probably need to double or triple that so is that it's just math is not my stress basically a third of your body weight to just survive survive so how if you want to put on muscle how much if if you're say you're let's say you're 120 pounds so let's just do 100 pounds for the round number

probably 75 to 100 grams of protein. You're going to need if you want to put on muscle. But here's the thing. The amino acid profile is really critical, specifically leucine. And so you need to have at least two and a half grams of leucine within the context of call it that 25 or 30 grams of protein to promote muscle protein synthesis. In other words, in other words, if you're not meeting that threshold, the protein just kind of goes to waste.

And so this is where it becomes an emotional conversation because animal products by their amino acid profile are much higher in leucine. Like you can do this if you're eating plant-based, but you need to consume so much more protein and so many more calories to get the leucine. Kids, it's different. Kids can kind of have everything.

They're good. For us, no. And so that where, you know, you got to have, if you don't want to eat, you know, meat or dairy, you're probably going to have to have a protein powder, but you really need to eat enough loosing. And the best way to do it is probably with animal, when it probably is with animal products.

When someone decides they want to eat plant-based, I have no qualms with that. But when they tell me that they can eat that way and get these same amino profiles, I'm like, well, you can't unless you're doing a lot of other things and eating a tremendous amount. And I think what they're then not calculating is when you eat that amount,

like you have to deal with a whole host of other issues because you're eating so much. You got to have a lot of soy. Like, it's possible. It's just a lot more difficult. It is significantly easier to get it through eggs, dairy, and meat, fish. I mean, if you pinged 10 people that's a their plant base, I would imagine nine out of 10 of those people would have no idea what we're even talking about here with aminos and

lucene, right? And so I think that's, and it's not a fault on them. It's just we're not educated as a population. So they think they're eating the right way and they're misinformed. And so people that have meat in their diet don't necessarily have as much of an issue with this kind of stuff when it comes to muscle building because they're getting these amino profiles. And the beauty it is you don't need to have like a 16 ounce rib eye. Like if you look at the serving size, it's like three to five ounces, very small portions of meat to get that

amino acid profile and the protein to pack on muscle. Do you know what I just had the other day? Liver. And you know what? I read about liver and it says now this could be wrong so everyone can go Google check me. But it says that if you eat a serving of liver once a week, it's basically like almost all the supplements you need for the whole week. Now could be wrong. but this is what I read and I will tell you when I ate a serving of liver I was bouncing off the walls

I can't do it it's not that hard it's not that hard I just put it I had onions tomatoes and the serving is like this big and you just wolf it down

it's cooked I think there's also you could do it I think again what's giving liver a bad name and listen we've had some of these people in the show The Lever King yeah funny story he was in our studios

in L.A. Anyways side story. But I think like when people see a guy like that and he's got a giant liver slab and he's biting into it raw with his bare teeth and there's all this other meat and heads around, like, okay, this, it's good for content and it's good to draw attention. But like the average person is going to be immediately turned off. If you said, hey, you're going to take a dime size portion of liver and have that once a week. I think people might say, okay, that's maybe reasonable to see if I could feel a benefit. Right. You don't have to have a giant bowl of

liver. Filled with vitamins and minerals. I love supplements. We have a supplement business. I take a lot of supplements. But with food, I just won't eat anything that I don't like. I get it. I get it. Hey, I'm not like yum liver. Can't wait. But I'll eat anything for beauty. If you told me poo was good for my skin, I might put it on my skin. This is another, I think, topic of conversation that again is like getting in some controversial waters. And I was reading Peter Atia's new book and he was talking about some of these like, what do they call them centurions, the people that live past 100. And like there was no kind of like, some of them smoked, some of them drank, some of them drank a Coca-Cola.

every day. One big factor was many of them were social to your point earlier. But a lot of the common theme as I was reading was like, these people were not stressed out all the time about what they were eating or ingesting or drinking or smoking. Like they were just kind of living stress-free, care-free lives. And I think sometimes when we go to these extremes and we get so rigid with our diet or our fitness routine, you're just like stressing yourself out constantly and smashing so much cortisol into the system. Like that can't be good for you. Yeah. I mean, you pretty much summed up one of the core reasons we have such a complicated relationship with the word wellness. When we look at how it's reflected in society, it comes from this place of restriction and what can I take out. And,

you know, why we didn't call our book the joy of wellness is because we wanted to shift the conversation to a world of abundance and bring some joy back into all of this. Because at the end of the day, if we're not having a lot of fun, if we're not enjoying life, if we're not connecting with others, like, what's the point of living to the centenarian Olympics? And so you mentioned it, Tia. And look, he's brilliant. I think it's, but, something that's changed also in the last 14 years is like okay this idea of lifespan like we can get you to age 100 and i think the 2.0 was health span we want to get to get you to age 100 but you want to be mobile and fit for 99 years 11 months and 30 days then rapidly decline overnight and die we like joy span it's like

what's the point of being around a living to 100 if you're not having fun and that's something we love about you guys like you guys have a good time yeah and and like you you you have to and i think so much of this conversation is about rigidity, as Colleen saying, and eliminating things from your diet and being so rigid, you know, the protocols, like I do the hot and the cold and the morning sunlight. And then it's like two hours have passed. My wife's filing for divorce in the morning. Like, you can't live this way. No, my perspective on this and I'm completely unapologetic about it is it's, and then people say work hard, play hard, but I want to live my life in the way we're saying, I have a great relationship with my wife and my friends and I'm social and I go have fun and I let

the wheels fall off and I'll go party and go crazy. Then I'll go run a business and I'll do a show and I don't see any point in excelling in just one area. Like I don't want to be the healthiest guy on the planet. I don't want to be the biggest businessman. I don't want to only be the I want to do all the things and have fun. And if that means I'm cutting my life a little bit short or I'm not reaching that extra dollar or I'm missing it. Like to me, I think people miss the mark where they just like focus so hard on being the greatest in one area and then they forget that like life is meant to be lived. Like I know so many success. people. I'm like, I would never trade spots you. You are a boring motherfucker. I look at these

guys that are out there on the circuit. I'm like, your life sucks. It's boring. You're not fun to party with. I would never hang out with you. Right. And I think that there's a lot of guys that you can point to that are like that. We've only got four thousand weeks on this planet. Yeah. You've talked about that, but it's had a profound impact on us. It really puts into a perspective. There are also seasons for life. Seasons like with their kids in this particular moment. Like there's a window of time where your kids actually want to hang out with you. And then that ends. And then when you have the time back, you know, it's like, okay. I can't when you say it ends. Well, it doesn't, it changes. It changes. And I think, you know, this idea of, well, I'm going to do this and achieve this. And then we'll

spend more time. And then the window's gone. And there are these seasons of life. And it's something that's really hit home with children. I think some of the, you know, I'd say the healthiest people we know, some of the most successful people we know, or also some of the most miserable people we know. and that should be part of well-being. You got to have fun. No, and we have a lot of people that are quote-unquote health experts and they come on the show and they're like, hey man, you want to hang out?

I'm like, no, you're boring. Like, I would never hang out with you. I like you. I respect your work, but we're not going on vacation together. I don't want to count my calories and be judged when I'm like slamming down or some shots of tequila. Like, I want to go have fun with people. And listen, to each their own, everyone has a different version of fun.

But I think we get sometimes we get so rigid in life and you forget, like you only get one shot at this. There's nothing else. I don't want to look back and be like, man, like, I accomplished all these things, but I was so boring, right? Like, go have fun, like live a little bit. Like, I love that you guys went out and got away from the kids and went to the bar and let loose a little bit.

Like, that's what Lauren and I do. We like that. Like, that's fun. Yeah. What are some joyful daily habits that you both practice? So for me, walking. Like, if I don't get my 10,000 steps, I am a grumpy dinosaur as my six-year-old would say. Do you tell him to go walk when he starts to act up?

Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah, that's what you go on. Pretty much. Like, I got to get my steps in. We have a rule. If it's less than five flights, I take the stairs. Like, I have to walk. There's nothing for me. Like, I walked around all over Austin this morning. It's like I woke up super early. I'm like, I'll walk there. I'll walk to Merritt and get coffee. I'll walk to Starbucks and get coffee. I'll walk to Trader Jet. Like, I just had to walk and get outside. It brings me joy. There's nothing like walking on like a beautiful day in Miami or Austin or any great city. I love it. And I think walking is like the most underrated longevity practice. Moving to Miami has brought me so much. Yes, it was a great move for our kids in school, but from like a personal well-being standpoint, I just find it so much easier to naturally integrate wellness into our life. So pickleball brings me a lot of joy. Going to the beach and just, you know, you have to physically decompress and put your phone away has brought me so much joy and just being in nature in ways that are just

so much harder to integrate into your life when we lived in Brooklyn. What is your favorite tip out of your book that you discovered while reading? searching. I mean, Marguerite is at lunch. He's definitely a fan favorite for obvious reasons. You know, we're just, we're just big into justifying alcohol. You know, but that is a, that is one of, that's high in the list as, as well as Dr. Miller's research on spirituality and mothers and girls. It is just so top of mind for us. Like our Y has evolved through these seasons of life. Like I started in wellness when at a near catastrophic pulmonary embolism from the birth control pill, and that was like my original Y. And that started a really long process of this

game of Marco Polo, of literally trying everything in New York, from Western practitioners to holistic healers. And when I wrote the article on MindBuddy Green about my experience with the pill, I heard from so many people who had had a similar tragedy happen in their families, oftentimes with a fatal result. And so, you know, the book we have now, The Joy of Wellbeing is a roadmap I wish I had, which have been a lot more efficient path to figure out for me what living a well-lived life meant. How did you know that you had something going on in your system and it was from birth control? So I did not listen to the whispers in my body as well as I should have because there were signs. I had, you know, gone to Miami for a fun weekend and came back and was like, I'm like,

I'm at a bad hotel though, so I don't think we had as much fun. True. I think that may have contributed in the spiritual sense. True. I came back and I was like, oh, my ankle's a little swivel. and, you know, travel back to 2012. I was like, oh, must be from too much TRX, because I think I was doing TRX then. And then I went to Tara Stiles, who is the godmother of our second child's yoga class on a Saturday morning, which was my usual Saturday morning routine. And I left and I was like,

I'm a little out of breath. And I called Jason. And I was like, can you like walk around the West Village with me? And I decided we needed to go home. And I took the train home and we were walking up the A train, which has really steep steps, and I collapsed on the steps. But then I did what so many women do, and I gaslit myself. I got out of the subway station. I was like, I'm fine. I'm dehydrated. I don't want to go to the ER.

That was a fluke. And so the rest of the weekend, I was lethargic. I took naps, things that are totally out of character. And I think women have more of a tendency to gaslight themselves than men. And then come, you know, Monday morning, I was working at Amazon at the time. And Jason was like, there's no way you are going to work today unless you visit your doctor on the way. So I went to my GP. And within a few minutes, he's like, you're having a pulmonary embolism.

And I was totally bewildered. He gave me a little sign that said, I'm having a pulmonary embolism. I wasn't sure if he was worried I wouldn't make it to the ER or if I wouldn't be able to articulate what was happening to my body once I got there. You know, sure enough, it was showers of clots in my lungs. How did he know that you were having that? That's scary. He did, you know, just... The swollen leg and then you couldn't breathe.

Yeah. That's a big one. If someone has a swollen leg, but I could see why you gaslit yourself. Like, you could be like, oh, my ankle sore from working out or I'm out of breath because I walked up the stairs too quick. Like, I could see, I can understand that. And so what was the, did you ever find out what the root cause was? Birth control.

Yeah. I mean, when a 32-year-old has a PE, they do every single test. And what's interesting and about it is I don't have any of the genetic predispositions to clotting. So like if you had gotten like the prenatal testing that you probably got before your, you know, first kid, I don't have factor five. I don't have any of those obvious symptoms. And I had been on birth control pills for like 10 years at this point. So it wasn't like, oh, you know, new medication that wasn't working for me. I had traveled to other continents.

But the combination, like once you start to say flight, swollen leg, trouble breathing, you know, then when you you get to the hospital and they do, you know, an ultrasound, then they can see, you know, the showers of clots that were that were in my leg. So I'm upset that I gaslit myself. I've always like moved on from this and, you know, you know, taken a lot of life lessons from this experience. But yeah, I do see how what happened? What did they do once they know you're having that? What's the protocol? So unfortunately, there's not much they can do. The clots have to work themselves out. They give you blood thinners. And it was, you know, we talk about how breath. is the first chapter. And it's because it was the first time in my life I had thought about breath.

I remember being on subway trains in New York. And it was, you know, the sweaty summer when I was dealing with this. And I was so worried that I wouldn't get a seat that I was like the person not making eye contact with the old people to make sure that I could steal their seat because otherwise I was worried about standing the whole train wide home. Like breath became this, you know, area of concern. And I had never thought about it before. And I started looking. at people who had overcome similar struggles in life. And I do think it's part of the value in sharing these stories of resilience because you're reminded of the resilience of the human spirit. And we look to people like Serena Williams and others who had overcome these types of tragedies because it's just

this interesting state that I had never been in where it's a true invisible illness. If you looked at me on the outside, I would look totally healthy. And no one would know that I was struggling for every breath on the subway. birth control is one of those things that's kind of like implants because I just came out and said my implants removed but birth control is a similar energy where we're just kind of told when we're young I'm go on birth control when you start having sex there was no conversation about what it does your hormones what what it could do your experience like you you just kind of are like okay go to plan parenthood and go on birth control I remember going to plan

parenthood at 15 and a half years old by myself to get on birth control and they give it to you. Okay, but there was no context around what I was taking. And I don't know if you had this experience, but I took it for like 10 years. Who knows what it did to my hormones. And getting off of it, there's all kinds of things it does. You get hyperpigmentation. I mean, it's not like it does nothing. I remember taking a 30 point test in college to be able to get birth control pills at the student health center. And all of the questions were focused on how not to get pregnant while you're on birth control pill. And there was so little education around clotting and what to you know, look for. And I had heard about clotting and birth control pill, but I wasn't a smoker.

I wasn't overweight. So I think it dismissed it as something that, well, that's not something I need to worry about when actually it definitely materially was. And then once we got off birth control, it took a really long time for me to get my period. And then we had a very long struggle to get, you know, to get our two children into the world. And I'm sure those events are, are somewhat related. Yeah. It's probably does something to our hormones. Meanwhile, the guy does nothing. Like nothing. It's honestly unreal. We have to take on this burden of this pill in our system for every single day you have to take it. I mean, that is wild. There needs to be, in my opinion, more content. and more education around women taking birth control, women getting implants, women getting an

IUD. I mean, like, there's got to be repercussions of sticking something inside you and leaving it there. I mean, I don't understand how there's not more people talking about these things that women are just doing casually every single day. If you are looking for a grass-fed protein with no artificial ingredients, that's non-GMO and gluten-free. I have you covered. It is by Clean Simple Eats. Okay, so most protein powders we know have like that shocky, thick aftertaste, but Clean Simple Eats is super creamy and smooth. So this is

something that you could mix into your matcha. I'm a big fan of protein and matcha. It's such an easy way to get protein. So you could like froth it in. You do like a little raw milk or some almond milk and you froth in your protein. They have this like. that's simply vanilla. And it literally tastes like ice cream. It's so smooth. And this protein is like all over TikTok. Everyone is like mixing it with all different kinds of things. You could mix it with orange juice. You can make like an orange Julius. You could do it in a shake and oatmeal. It just like frost everything up. But the best part is you're getting protein. I have completely up to my protein game, especially after having a baby and losing 50 pounds. And I think protein is key. And if there's ways to

sneak it in that are strategic, I'm all about that. One of the things that I love about clean simple eats is their high ingredient standards. So like I said, it's grass fed, no artificial ingredients, third-party tested, non-GMO, and gluten-free. So we have a code for you. I actually used my own code. You can visit clean, simpleeats.com, and use code skinny at checkout for 20% off your first order. That is clean, simpleeats.com, code skinny for 20% off your first order. I find it so annoying when people are like, oh, my baby's just so good. They sleep through the night. No. Having your baby sleep through the night requires strategy. And with towns, we did something that was absolutely life-changing. So we did a sleep sack, but a lightly weighted sleep sack.

This sleep sack has helped my baby sleep for eight hours a night. I'm not joking. I swear by this. I tell all my friends, I have texted it to family. It's like a gently weighted sleep sack that really relaxes and calms the baby. This makes so much sense to me personally because I use a weighted blanket, especially when it's cold. And I feel like it just calms me down when I'm anxious. So to have this for the baby makes a lot of sense. Sleep is so important, not just for the baby, but for the parents. So to be able to have a product that's safe and natural and actually works is in

incredible. So I tested this out basically probably when Towns was like one month and on. And I have to tell you, it has made him a champ when it comes to sleeping. They have all different colors. I personally like a neutral or the black. You could pick whatever you want. But this is perfect, especially if your kids like their arms out. Towns likes his arms out. It's soft. It's the perfect amount of weight. It's absolutely incredible. And of course, we have a code for you. So you can go to Dreamlandbabyco.com and enter our code skinny at checkout. You receive 20% off sitewide plus free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers. I'm telling you, I have had the sleep sack through all iterations of my baby's sleep, and it's absolutely incredible. I can't live without it. Dreamlandbabbyco.com, use our code skinny.

One thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is celebrities and influencers are using a personal stylist. And it can get pricey. So I have a hack for you. It's called Stitch Fix. So basically you have access to this personal stylist who's curating the perfect pieces for your unique style. They have all the things on their site. So think a wide range of sizes. They also have like over a thousand brands and styles.

I'm a big fan of rail. and Calvin Klein, those are on their site. I mean, you can really go wild there. They have like Good American page. I needed something pink for this Barbie party that I'm going to this weekend. It's my goddaughter's party. And I wanted something specific from Good American. So I went on and scoured their site. And what's so amazing is it's like you really do have access to a style partner. Your stylist will learn about your taste and collaborate with you on looks that you will be obsessed with. You can try on your pieces at home before you buy them, and then you just keep what you love and send back the rest. Plus, shipping returns and exchanges are always free. I'm telling you this is what the

celebrities do, the influencers, they use a personal stylist. And with this, there's no subscription required. Try Stitchfix today. You can go to Stitchfix.com slash skinny and you'll get 25% off when you keep everything in your fix. That's Stitchfix.com slash skinny for 25% off today. Stitchfix dot com slash skinny stitchfix dot com slash skinny i'm glad that a decade later women are talking about it a lot more than they were back then but totally agree there needs to be more education around this multifaceted thing because there was a moment in time when you know if you said something bad about the pill you weren't being feminist and luckily you know that conversation and dialogue has evolved and i don't know what the answer is as you know i answer is make guys do something because we're over it and we need a break

You guys go do something. Go take a pill that fucks up your hormones and gives you blood clots. I'm sick of it. No. Next question. Just kidding. On that subject, men are responsible for 40% of fertility issues. We've been talking about that.

I mean, we've been talking about that more. Huh. And so that was a big part of our story. It's in the book. We were trying to get pregnant and it wasn't working and then go. Hold on one side. To your point, they did. have me do two rounds of clomid before they tested jes jay so which was a major mess so then they tested me

and no sperm i'm like i don't understand like well no sperm and so i had this condition as uspermia and they didn't think it was genetic i didn't have a genetic mutation for it so they thought there was some sort of blockage something blocking the sperm so there was an easy test where i think north of 90 of the blockages occur and you know i had to go to the doctor i'll bend over i won't spare the details but it was painful and blockage wasn't there. And so it was a very low... Bend over? Wait, what do you mean? See, Lauren, hear you were saying they don't do anything.

Do you have the whole fist up there, Doc? Don't spare me. What do you mean? Bend over. Like up your butt hole? Yeah, the doctor went in there, elbow deep, and just went in. Wait, but how does that have to do with where the sperm's coming here? I was thinking it's the other way.

So there's a plot. He went pretty far. Okay. So the doctor went in there and the blockage was not in the. that spot where most of blockages occur. And it was kind of like we were hoping for that because that would have been the easier fix. And so they actually, it was a big question of whether or not I produce sperm at all. And there was a very small chance that the blockage was somewhere else. And so we went to a specialist. This guy flew in from St. Louis to New York once a month to do

this procedure. And this was like a factory, like a fertility factory show up there at like 7 a.m. a Saturday and we meet with this older gentleman and we sits us down he's drinking a Coca-Cola and right away I'm like we're not going to vibe here and he jumps into you know I hope it works out because adopting is a terrible idea that kids have all these problems oh jesus like we don't believe in this so I'm like we also believe in like having a strong emotional connection with your doctor and you know it's the healing energy and this guy was like the total opposite he's drinking soda he's saying if it doesn't work out you're screwed adopted kids have all these problems Let's go.

Let's cut your testicles open. And so essentially that was the procedure where they cut my testicles open. I had anesthesia from the legs down. And we were lucky enough, it was 12 vials of sperm. It was a gold rush. It was a success. It was very, the anesthesia wore off like an hour later, and it was laying in bed for a while.

And that was only like the living around for a while, like part one. They cut open the testicle. Hold on. Do they have to like get the sperm going? You are you, Lauren, saying guys don't do anything. The doctor's working this guy like a puppet. Does the sperm? Yeah, now I feel bad.

Okay, you're, you've taken one for the team. So the sperm is in the testicle. They cut open the testicle and extracted the sperm. Okay. And took out 12 files. I want to, I want to commend you for talking about this. Jason, this is so important for more men to talk about because what I notice is that the woman always gets blamed.

And the woman wants to protect. the man's ego. I've seen this a lot. And the woman almost will go along with the story, that she's the quote unquote problem of why they can't get pregnant when it's actually the man. It was. And look, this was getting to the starting line. It was still a journey in a couple year a journey and calling number of, like it was a tough process. But like to your point, like men don't talk about it. And there was a problem. To this day, I even went back after we we had our second children. I'm like, test me again.

Like, is this something spiritual? Or maybe it was like my homocysteine level or something weird. And like, sure enough, like, nothing was coming out. And the doctor was like, why do you care? I'm like, that's a really good point. Like you have healthy kids, you have sperm, it's all good. But like it was and then it still continued on. Like this was the starting line.

We got to the starting line and then we thought it would just be easy. Easy, fantastic. And it was a total of nine IVF transfers and 15 embryos to get to our first child. You had to do the shots to freeze embryos nine times. So I did four retrievals when you do the shots. Wow. And then nine transfers. And on the ninth transfer, my doctor put in four embryos. And the embryologist was like, what are you doing? So you could have got, You could have had four kids at once? I could have.

We just have one really strong girl. We just have one really strong girl. Killed all the others. Who was the fiercest six-year-old you'll ever meet. And then we have a second child. And the night before, or the day before, I had seen some twins. And I was like, hmm, interesting. I don't think I could handle twins in New York City.

And then I didn't sleep the night before my transfer. And I woke up and I was like, Jason, we're going to get pregnant. Called my doctor. And I was like, just transfer one. And that's grace. So you ended up transferring one even though he said four. No. So to get to Ellie, four were transferred.

And then on Grace, we only transferred one. Got it happened. Got it. So you had to be, I don't know what the right verbiage is. You had to, what's the turkey baster thing that they do? What's it called? When they. That's the transfer.

You would to do that nine times. Yeah. Yeah. And there was also like some false starts along that. So like there was times when I was having. these weird issues where my lining wasn't getting thick enough, but I would go through part of the transfer process. And then in like the most painful form, like the day before or the day of, they'd be like, we can't waste this embryo because this lining, you know, isn't perfect and we can't

waste a precious embryo. And like, it was just this really odd thing because I had all, all the great vitals. Like my AMH was fine. I'd produce all these embryos. And I, you know, I saw the, we had a couple miscarriages as part of those nine transfers. And I saw the guy you see in New York. And it was kind of like a funny full circle moment because last week someone pitched him to me as like an expert for our podcast. And I was like, oh, little do they know him. Colleen. We were such edge cases. This guy agreed to see Colleen because he was fascinated by her case because it should have been easy. But it wasn't. So there was this feeling of you're going to get pregnant. But at the same time, we have no idea why it's not happen. And to this day, we still have no idea why someone with so many, you know, well-tested embryos

took so long to get to the final result. And it is one of life's mysteries that we will never know. When you did the four rounds to get embryos, how many embryos did you get total to be able to do seven rounds of IVF? I would get a lot of them. Like the first time when we were at the factory, it was like a low-dose factory. We end where they don't give you as many hormones, so you don't produce as many embryos. Energetically, we needed to leave the factory, and we realized we needed to find someone. It was going to be a journey. We needed to find someone who was kind, compassionate, and had shared values. And Dr. Azeem of NYC, IVF, wanted me to get pregnant almost as much as we did. And I found this kind, compassionate doctor who didn't care that I was single-handedly destroying his

IVF statistics on his pregnancy rates, which each and every time he saw us. And, you know, that was kind of, you know, what we knew we needed. We'd go to these other clinics. And I was like, nope, I need the kind, compassionate doctor who believes in me. And then when we were ready for to do it again with Grace, Colleen called back. And we found out he had passed away. And he must have been really sick. There had been a lot of coughing going on in our appointments. And he actually, you know, between children had passed from lung cancer. And he and his wife were the co-doctors in the practice together. So then his wife was our doctor for grace.

But to this day, he's like such an important part of our life. Yeah. And I think just like with regards to fertility, like it was brutal. It was brutal. I mean, this sounds so stressful. What were you guys doing at the time to kind of manage those emotional swings? It also was just. Drinking earlier in the day.

Yeah. It was also such a different era of being able to talk about this stuff. Because it was 2012 when it started, 2016 when we got pregnant, 2017 when when Ellie was born. And, you know, we weren't remote working. I remember just so many horrific kind of moments of being in Kansas City and having to do a blood draw and finding like a lab corp on the way where I could get my blood drawn or like going to leaving a failed procedure and then having a meeting with. you know, someone who announced that they accidentally got pregnant. I don't understand. Like,

there's so many of those. Almost time to pause to realize, like there's a lot of micro traumas within what you experienced. Yes, it's incredible you have two children now. First of all, it's a lot. And second of all,

this is not like you can go back in history 100 years and be like, oh, this person did this this way too. Totally. It's such a like new age thing to be able to get pregnant with IVF, that it's not like you can call your mom. And you guys are running. a massive wellness business at the same time. And no one knows what to do and say. And I know everyone's so

well-intentioned. And you know, you're kind of, everyone's walking on eggshells around you who does know. And I didn't want to share with more people because I didn't know how long this insane rollercoaster was going to last. And I don't think it was until, you know, COVID went ahead, a lot of time to read, wasn't doing as much. And I read the body keeps the score. And I was like, okay, I think we had a lot to work through there energetically that it accumulated. I also think, and this is the reason why we're sharing it, people are more open now. And back then, it wasn't an open conversation. There was almost when we talked to people in our world, there was a lot of guilt and shame.

And if you weren't doing a natural birth, something was wrong with you. We went to all sorts of healers. I remember we went to one alternative healer for me. And he was like, oh, castor oil. And like, I tried it. I tried everything. It's like, give me a brain. Like, in retrospect, really?

Like, castor oil? Like, I never want to see castor oil again. Did you drink it? No, like rubbing castor oil, like, to undo the block, to stimulate and undo the penis, he says to rub Castro. No, no, it was above. It was like above. Lord, where is your mind going on?

I don't know. I'm just like, where do you put the castor oil? Do you drink it? Get the whole fist up there. Use it as loo? So, but, but, and there was this, there was a lot of guilt. There was a lot of shame that there may be something. was wrong with you or you were doing something wrong. And, you know, natural wasn't even a viable

option for us because of Colleen's, Colleen and pulmonary animalism was like, she's going to be high risk no matter what. Like, that's real. And so I, that's one thing. I think that's been positive of people are a lot more open. Now, back then, not so much. I remember when Colleen was pregnant, we weren't telling people for all the reasons. We were really waiting. One of our friends who was an influencer said, looked at Colleen and was like, I think you have, you know, like, Sebo. I think you have sebo. Like you looks like you're bloated a little bit. Like we just like kind of smiled and rub it off.

Like no, like Colleen's pregnant. I think that being open takes the air out of shame. Like when you can just be an open book and just share your experiences or your micro trauma or trauma or whatever you've been through when you talk about it, it takes the air out of the guilt. I could be self-aware enough to know that like that maybe comes more naturally to some individual. being open comes naturally to Lauren.

I just like, that's just how we've been. But I know a lot of people, I will talk to some people like, how do you just be open and how do you share? I don't think there's some great superpower. I think it has a lot to do with how you grew up, who your parents were, the environment, all these things. But to some people, it's very foreign to be an open book because whether they grew up in a more strict household or in a conservative environment or they grew up in a place where there was religion that was maybe a little more oppressive. Like there's a million reasons why people might not be. So I do have some empathy for people like, yeah, easy for you to say. But at the same time, I think what we try to do is take the stigmas out of things so that people

can not, their first reactions to not just pass judgment. And there's so many people going through a shared experience, right? There's one of eight. Yeah. And I think with men in this conversation, it's more difficult and look like I wasn't sharing this. This happened in 20s. Ellie was born in January of 17.

It's almost June of 23. So a lot of time has passed in something like our family knew, but like I wasn't like raising my hand to like post on Instagram. Hey guys. Just what surgery is happening. I mean there's not a lot of men that want to tell that story. Like, you know, it's just sure. It's just not one. And that's probably a comment on us as men, right? Like there's a like why do we feel shame around something like that when it's obviously to the betterment of your family and to bring joy into your life. But there is there is these weird pockets of society where we still feel like we can't share parts of the human experience. Yes. I think it's so cool that you're sharing this and both of you guys are sharing this. I think it's amazing. And I bet you you're going to get a lot of DMs about this conversation. What can we expect from the joy of well-being, a practical guide to a happy, healthy, and long life? Well, it's really fun read. It's not as boring as all the health books out there might be biased. But it's the roadmap I wish I had when I was struggling with my pulmonary ambulism. And I wasn't listening to the whispers of my body. If you asked me, what brought me joy at this point in life, I would have, you know, looked at you confused. It's the roadmap I wish I had then to help me live a better life.

And I think it squarely addresses the big objections to health and well-being, which are I don't have the time and I don't have the resources. And we started to feel that way too. And this book takes the 14 years of knowledge we have and all the experts. And we were so excited because, you know what? So much the great science actually points to practices and modalities and routines. are actually one or lowers lower no costs require very little time and effort and we think like we can get you like 80 percent there like you can do it it's possible no matter how busy you are it is possible

where can everyone find both of you and follow mind body green so mind buddy green is at mind buddy green and my buddy green dot com we also have a podcast and the book is the joy of well-being dot com it's also on amazon and every major book retailer and we're at jason walk up and at coline walk out. I'm going to go take a walk after this episode. Thank you both so much for flying out. We will let you know when we're in Coconut Grove. Maybe sooner rather than later. Sharing your story. Amen. We got to take a pickleball. Come to the Grove guys. Yeah. Thanks guys. Appreciate you. Thank you guys so much for listening. We have a solo episode coming up for you next week. It's so much fun. It's all my postpartum tips and tricks and workout hacks. I hope you love this episode.

please read it on the podcast app and let us know what you think.