The Boyscast with Ryan Long - THE GREAT AI DEBATE w/ Andrew Yang

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Andrew Yang joins the Boys to discuss UBI, the inevitable AI takeover, and how to prepare for an uncertain future.   SUPPORT THE BOYSCAST! Go to https://patreon.com/theboyscast for a premium episode every week plus bonus content   SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Shipstation - Go to https://shipstation.com for a 60 day free trial with full access Hims - Go to https://hims.com/boyscast for your FREE online consultation Marek Health - Go to https://marekhealth.com and use code BOYSCAST to get 10% off Marek Health and Marek Diagnostics   Upcoming Shows:  Boston - July 17 Denver - July 23-25 Albuquerque- July 31-Aug 1 Nashville - Aug 12/13 Kansas City - Aug 14/15 Tacoma - Sept 17-19 Phoenix - October 16-17 Edmonton- Nov 5,6,7 Calgary - Nov 12-14 DC - Dec 3-5  Providence - Dec 10-12 Punchup.live/ryanlong   Danny Shows: Tacoma, WA - July 15th Spokane, WA - July 16th Atlantic City, July 19th Punchup.live/dannypolishchuk   Ryans: https://youtube.com/ryanlongcomedy @ryanlongcomedy Dannys Channel: https: youtube.com/dannypolishchuk @dannyjokes  FELLAS FELLAS MERCH! http://ryanlongstore.com   To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] with Subject: Boyscast   Ryan @ryanlongcomedy Danny @dannyjokes Instagram: @ryanlongcomedy Twitter: @ryanlongcomedy Facebook.com/ryanlongcomedy tiktok @ryanlongcomedy  AUDIO  PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-boyscast-with-ryan-long/id1498829489   Chapters: 00:00 - Introduction 02:27 - Noble Mobile 13:39 - Capital / AI / Attention 22:55 - Call Centers / Waymo 26:34 - AD - Shipstation - Go to https://shipstation.com for a 60 day free trial with full access 28:26 - AD - Hims - Go to https://hims.com/boyscast for your FREE online consultation 30:13 - DATES - Go to https://punchup.live/ryanlong and https://punchup.live/dannypolishchuk for tickets! 30:32 - What are the outcomes after the AI takeover? 40:40 - What are the odds the government spends the money wisely? 42:37 - How much did AI factor into proposing UBI? 48:05 - Everyones a populist now / Bernie 52:15 - Proposal for the boys 56:36 - Counterpoint 1:02:48 - AD - Marek Health - Go to https://marekhealth.com and use code BOYSCAST to get 10% off Marek Health and Marek Diagnostics 1:04:17 - If you were president could you enact UBI right away? / National debt 1:13:50 - DOGE 1:16:35 - Getting kicked off social media and losing your income 1:23:50 - Is AI overhyped / Can it replace human creativity? 1:28:04 - If you were 20 right now what would you do? / What would you study in university? 1:37:34 - Wrap up / Plugs

The Boys cast. Fresh off a call with the wife. Yes. Now it's time to forget about her now. Showed up with the interns. Yes. Which is how many interns do you have? Right now we have four.

This is, okay, so this is my, I feel like me and you have had like some weird, so I did Jules' podcast at your studio. I actually met you at the stand at a Dave Chappelle event. Oh, like 2019. Yes. Thank you. you. And then also, which I always thought it was cool that you were one of the first people

to kind of like have Shane Gillis on after the whole episode and kind of be like a comedy first person. Then you have the forward party that I know has over the year has posted a few of our videos and because we've done a lot of kind of making fun of both sides content over the years. Yeah, so you have and so we have. Yeah, exactly. So I feel like there's been a lot of things where I've been I don't know, I always just thought that everything you were doing with the forward party and stuff like that was really cool. And then on top of that, me and Danny have been having like, kind of a pretty, one of our number one, like, this is the AI debate. The great AI debate. I'm more of a dumer. He's more of a, everything's an overreaction. All right. I mean, we can dig into that.

We can dig into. Well, we don't have to dig into that immediately, I guess. First, so you have a new company, you have a new book. And what, like, what does mostly your days look like now? Because I know you have a, you have a big staff. What are you up to for the most part? Yeah, where to begin, where to begin. So I spend my time as the CEO of Noble Mobile and what the fuck is Noble mobile mobile. It's like an obvious question. So check it out. I'm the magical Asian man from the future who wanted to give everyone money.

That's why, you know, people follow me. And so I was like, how can I get people money now when I don't run the country? I don't have, you know, you got kind of close. Right. and so I went through what we spend money on and number eight for most people is our wireless connection so this has never come up in all of your podcast convos I'm sure but who do you guys use as your wireless provider and do you know I have Google

Fi that's a very good smart one I've gone back and forth a bit of times some of it's because of sponsors oh really oh who sponsors this shit oh I'm too late no anyway so I they're gone tomorrow Yes, get them the fuck out. I was on Verizon. I was paying them $150 a month, which makes me a chump. But the average American spending 83 a month on their wireless, the average European is 35 a month.

Oh, yeah. You guys are from Canada, which is actually... Oh, Canada is the worst. Yes, because you don't have any competition, really. There's no competition. There's a duopoly. Yeah, it's a lot of... There's Rogers and Bell, and then they each own all these different ones.

So let me start on the airlines. Yes. Okay. So average American 83, average European 35, that delta, that difference comes to about $100 billion a year in extra wireless spend. And so I started going under the covers of the industry. I saw the $100 billion is going to, I mean, not a shocker to most people, but $11 billion is going to Verizon shareholders, the dividend every 12 months.

$7 billion is going to AT&T shareholders. The dividend three is going to T-Mobile. So that's around $21 billion. then there's another 10 billion or so in marketing spend, and another 10 in storefronts and the rest of it. So I was like, okay, wait a minute. There's a lot of bloat, a lot of fat. Can I get people wireless for closer to what Europeans spend?

Because then I'd be putting $600 a year back into your pockets. And so we cut a deal with T-Mobile, where Noble mobile we get unlimited data for up to $50 a month. But the kicker is that if you don't use all the data, we give you half the cash back. So that is the, hey, put your phone down, look up, touch grass. The average noble mobile user spends 42 a month. And they use their phones about 17% less because when you're doom scrolling.

So you're getting money for it. Yeah, yeah. It's like you know you're causing some money at the margin. So it's like a date of rebate. I have friends who work from home and are on Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi doesn't count. Yeah. So they're paying us like 32 a month.

They get back 18. And when you travel abroad, Canada's included, Mexico's included, but when you go to Europe, on Verizon or AT&T, they charge you 10 or 12 bucks a day on the travel pass. Yeah, it's crazy. And then on us, we cap it at five bucks a day and only 10 days per billing cycle, and then we don't charge you for domestic data. So the highest your bill can be is like $75. Would you consider some sort of like hardware component where when you're on your phone too much, it just like electrics you? Yeah. So it like a like shoots out spikes. Something. Just something that's more of a, I should have brought over some of our swag. So we have a bag that

cuts off the signal to your phones. Like the Faraday bag? That's a genuine Faraday bag. And then, yeah, like Chappelle, we were bonding over that. Like, he has the yonder bags

and he was taken away from you. I saw him last month in L.A. for Netflix is a joke. Yeah, you were there. Yeah, we were there. And man, that dude has the best parties. It's insane.

Anyone has a chance to go. He does sort of let it rip, eh? Yeah. I mean, like, I started throwing no phones parties in part because I was hanging out of Chappelle. And I was hanging out of Chappelle in Ohio.

And he was like, go to the club. It's like Wednesday night, winter, Ohio. And I was like, what the fuck is the club? So we go to his club down the street in Ohio. He meant the comedy club. No, not even the comedy club. Not even. So he's the firehouse, the comedy club. He just went to like their little clubhouse that's also in town. And then he made a couple of phone calls. Then like a DJ shows up and then all these people show them to start partying. And again, it was like a random Tuesday or Wednesday night. So it's like this guy's like a party on command button. It's like the greatest thing in the world. So

I you know We started throwing no phones parties in the name offline And now 10,000 people have come You put your phone in a bag And then you have no choice But to make eye contact with each other Sure

It's impossible by the way And not to put your phone down Because every That is to me The everyone I mean for us It's specifically hard Because our job is on our phones

It's like yeah You're addicted to it It's like Yeah When I was recently I've been trying to I was like Cut out

most carbs, all that sort of stuff. And then I realized I wasn't hungry. I was like, was I ever hungry? Or was I just, like, addicted to certain sugars and this and that? And it was kind of like with phones. But that's what it feels like constantly where people are like, well, yeah, just be on your phone less. You're like, quite the contrary. As the time goes on, I'll be on my phone more.

Yeah, yeah, soon we're going to have just the AR glasses. Did I went to my body's bar in Austin and they have a bar that you're not allowed to have your phones there? And legitimately, you're kind of like itching the whole time. Yeah, yeah, it's a fan of phone. It's like a part of your brain. It's like a body part. Yeah. This is me.

Yeah, you start touching the touching the touch in the pocket. I mean, there's, anybody knows the greatest dread you feel is if you think you lost your phone. That's not a great feeling. Yeah. So there's a, uh, an aphorism of saying that Tristan Harris is, like, brought back, which is we have, uh, Stone Age brain, medieval institutions and then Godlike supercomputers in our pockets. Yeah.

And so then the Godlike supercomputer wants to talk to you all the time. You know, you can't resist. Uh, because our brains. aren't really that stronger at all. And also society's structured now where if someone like messages you for like and you don't respond for four hours

like there is certain things where you just if you don't respond to things for four hours it does feel like people people have also registered that we're like what are you doing that you can't respond? Like you have to almost like let everyone know that you go I'm the kind of guy that doesn't respond to anyone. Well you guys are baller comedians and quasi famous

so you definitely can let everyone know it's like look I'm not here to be your bitch slave when you tell that to my wife or DM me or whatever. My wife is cut from a cloth where if I don't get back to her immediately, she's like, what the fuck? Like, where were you?

There we go. Yeah, I got it. Easier said than done. 30 seconds later, I get a text that she says, hello. Yeah. Do you think that's one of the biggest problems right now is the phones?

Like, just the, like, technology taking over our lives and the, like, what's doing to people's brains? Do you see that as like? Oh, yeah, 100. present. You know, Hassan Minaj calls them our rectangles of sadness. Yeah. But like one of the jokes I tell is that it's unusual for your neighbor to come and scream in your face. But we all get that feeling on our phones just about every day at social media. And maybe they're not screaming at you, but you're witnessing the screaming match. Yeah. And it's completely screwed with our brains. How old do you guys?

I mean, I don't know. Florida information. So you guys are old enough to remember the before times. You had your brains form before the iPhone. Like I remember getting dial up internet. Yes, same. I was like probably 10. And I thank God for the year of my birth now all the time because these kids had never actually had any waking hours without like the social media and the stimuli and the rest of it. So has it screwed up young people's attention spans and ability to concentrate all the stuff? 100%.

And the comparison I make for people is. is that I used to have a sense of direction before ways in Google Maps, but now I can't find shit. Yeah. You know, and so what AI is going to do is AIS going to do that to a lot of the ability to write a first draft or form structured thoughts or all that for the next generation. It's like almost like, remember like when you were a kid and then you couldn't use like a calculator on like a test and then your teacher's like, you'll never have a calculator all the time.

So you need to. And now you have, it's almost like where they're like, why do I need to learn a thing? I'm like, I'm just going to have AI all the time. Yeah, it's one reason I love comedians generally. and you guys in particular because you're the best of all of them. But that, I mean, you're creative, human. You gather people in real life, you know, to have a good time and put their phones down maybe and like, you know, put their cares aside.

All that stuff is the antidote, in my opinion, to what most people are experiencing, which is, hey, I'm in my basement, I'm going down an internet rabbit hole. I'm not going out. I'm not meeting people. I'm not drinking. I'm not having fun. Yeah. Not to be a downer.

No, no, no, no. Well, there's a positive, like, there's, I'll tell you, even with younger people. So there's two sides of that, because the other side is, because we grew up in the normal world, you treat the internet like the normal world, whereas a lot of young people, I remember I have a friend, and she was like, she's like younger, and she was, she's like supported Mondami, all this sort of stuff. And then she had, like, a phone call with an agent. They were talking about a role. And she was like, so is it like a lib-tard sort of?

of costume. And she was like, it's all just like, you know what I mean? You'd go you go, you go with this big mom-dami supporter. You think it's one way. But you're like, everything is just kind of like this joke to them in a weird way, where it's the internet stuff and the people making comments. They're almost like tapped into the fact that you're just like, well, you need,

yeah, of course people are going to argue. You let these idiots argue. And but then it's almost older people in a weird way where, okay, so if you look on the line right now, it feels like there's like a race riot going on. But then if you look at real life, you go, yeah, it's like, people have different races kind of like making fun

of each other but it doesn't have it's not a, it's like actually how people communicate. Sure. How dudes make fun of each other where it's like, I have friends where it's to be like a black guy, like send you something and be like, oh, is this your guy kind of thing and vice versa? Where that's in real life

it's not a big deal, but I think that sometimes people that grew up in it can treat it with the proper like gravity as well, so it works both ways. Interesting. For me, when people send me this crazy video of someone getting beaten down on the subway or like someone, you know, like beating up a spurs fan or whatever it is. I mean, I never amplify it. I never send it anywhere because my

attitude is like, look, this is going to find its audience without me. But also, there's like a sense that fucked up shit happens every day. And like I don't want to be someone who's like passing it along. Right. But it's hard to look away. But it's hard to look away. And so, that to me is that this social media world is that that's like the coin in the realm. I mean, that stuff is, you know, and that's not, that's not the norm. That's not what happens when you walk outside. I mean, a lot of people think New York City, you know, looks like, you know, looks like in a dangerous city.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you're just like, hey, you know, if I can live here and walk around and like, like doing everything else, it's fine. Same is true with L.A. where I just was yesterday. I took a red eye back. And, you know. Some areas of L.A. Some areas of Alia are rough.

Some areas of San Francisco are rough. I mean, they were both, I mean, Chappelle was, like, in San Francisco and said, like, you all need your own Batman. Like that kind of thing. So there's, like, the real life in the digital world. And what you said about, like, look, maybe the younger generation kind of has a good humor

or doesn't take you that seriously attitude. I mean, for one, they're not afraid to be embarrassed. That would be like a per- because, so if we were growing up, if you were on video doing something, like, embarrassing, you're like, my life's over. You know what I mean? I think that because everyone has a million of those now,

it's treated with like, yeah, I don't know. If you're going to be existing as a human, you're going to have to be embarrassed. And you might get famous from being embarrassed. Right. Also, you can get rich from being embarrassed. Like that couple at the Coldplay concert. Right.

I think that's like, yeah. I mean, I'm not sure there's coming back from that. I think she lost her job and the rest of it. That had serious repercussions on her future. Yeah. You can look at it like a game. Well, so there are three things. that are now

more, you know, the joining together in a vortex and that is like, one is AI, two is capital, and then three is attention. And so these three things are now, what's the capital one? It's just money. It's like if you have enough money, you can like access attention sort of,

that it doesn't work that well, and you can pay for it. And then, you know, it's just like, so, or what right now what's happening with the biggest AI companies is they're spending literally a trillion dollars on the data center. It's like the, most expensive investment ever to get the compute resources necessary to give everyone all the

intelligence that they can ever use. So we can all make stupid photos. So we can all make stupid photos, but for companies, and this is somewhat controversial, but I'll just give my point of view, because I'm here and, you know, whatever. So then about three months ago, a bunch of the AI CEOs got together and said, guys, we got to stop talking about getting rid of workers, because everyone's freaking hating us. Jim Altman had a Molotop cocktail and someone fired his house in the same week. And it was stupid of them. Yeah,

I mean, that's, but the reverse of it is like, so you're telling me you're going to spend a trillion dollars plus and counting on intelligent machines and no one's going to lose their job. Like that doesn't. And this isn't factoring in robotics. Yeah,

and this isn't even factoring robotics, which are, uh, you know, coming our way. And the reason why Americans don't see the robots that much is that America, American industry generally, is way behind the robotics.

You know who's way ahead in robotics? China, yeah. So do you see the, the, the new year's? The New Year's? And like the difference between one year,

like how much different they were? Yeah, they've decided that being number one in robots is the path of world domination. They might not be wrong. They have dark factories that literally just, they didn't bother with light fixtures

because it's all robots walking around. They don't need lights. That's crazy. So, so. That's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. So this wave is coming. And I'm,

One of the more of like the, you know, forward-thinking tech folks, I'm more robot dubious than a lot of folks. Like, I think they're going to be robots in the warehouses, sure. Like, but the robots are useless, my opinion, for a long time at like repairing your HVAC, you know, showing up to a plumbing appointment, cleaning a hotel room. Like cleaning a hotel room is actually kind of tricky. And the person, the human being that we use to clean up the hotel room is kind of cheap. And so, like, you're not going to have hotel clean, you know, room. There's that company in New York now where they are giving you free cleanings, right? So that they can program the AI.

They literally, like, someone comes in your house and they're, like, covered in cameras. Is that other than the sex robots too? Probably. And then they just clean your house and it's training their whatever. Yes. So I'm among the folks in my circle that are more like, look, man, the robots, there's a lot of shit. Like, it's just going to be too much of a pain in the ass than to do and, like, the rest of it. That's been my experience with a lot of stuff.

Yes. But even me, I'm like, if you have a controlled environment, like one of these Amazon warehouses or fulfillment centers, that's going to be Robot Central. That's going to be all robots. Yeah. And that's happening right now. So you have AI that's going to do away with customer service, you know, phone operators, coders, and lawyers, accountants, marketing, research, like all this stuff's going to get eviscerated, my opinion. even the call center workers it's 2.9 million a lot of how many overseas too

yeah so some of them moved overseas and then the AI is going to replace both overseas and the domestic but the domestic is a bigger priority because we're more expensive so it's one of the joys of being American is that we're more expensive and so the incentive to automate us is higher and so they're going to go through various roles where the rubber hits the road is the truck drivers and the Uber drivers

to me that's the biggest one that is the biggest one That is the biggest one in terms of headcounts. I mean, New York City, like all the food delivery. The food delivery, yeah, true. I mean, right now the food deliverers in New York City, we all know, are, like, it seems to me, like, most of them are undocumented. They've rented a social security. Okay, so now, if you were making the argument against that, like, would you not say that, okay, so you go, oh, they're going to get rid of Uber drivers, you go, that didn't exist 10 years ago, right? So it's already you're saying this thing that, this job that's only existed for 10 years.

years, they're going to be getting rid of that. And you go, well, there'll be a new version of that, you know, like, if you look at, so you think that, okay, so I'm, I'm literally like, you're, me and you are like, fully aligned. I'm not saying this. I've been saying this for a year. Like, I mean, I've referenced this before, but I'm sure maybe you've, have you been on the Allend podcast before? I'm sure you know it. Yeah. So they had, uh, an episode with Travis Kalanick. And he has this new, like, ghost kitchen company. Sure. Right. Where he's essentially like, you know, we're, going to replace every Chipotle is going to be besides

the cutting up the vegetables, the entire process is just going to be this it's a giant box and the inputs going in one end and it comes out bagged at the other end and I watched it and at no point did they say like hey what are these people going to do

because they're not high skilled people right no. I've been going around town losing this argument to everyone yeah yeah you've been getting no one dumby. No one agrees with me. Ryan's rocky at this point. The reason why you have the point of view you do, Ryan, is just you're an optimistic dude. You're like, you're like progress is good, future will be better than the present, like abundance, not scarcity.

And I generally love people with your attitude and mindset. You're, you know, like better company. But I think the facts are all on the other side myself. I wrote a book called The War on Normal People that went through various. jobs and what the automation trends were. If anyone wants to dig into my thinking on this more recently, I wrote a blog post called The End of the Office that calls this time the fuckinging.

And it goes through also some of the recent data. I think this is going to be terrible. Yeah. And I mean, the second point to that. So I agree there's optimistic. I would add in there's also like a lack, maybe like a low fear tolerance or whatever the right word is for that. or a high fear tolerance.

From who? No, I'm saying that I, like in COVID, for example, when everyone was freaking out. I think he's not optimistic. I think he's a contrarian. No, it's not. So there's another part of it. It's like, you know, I'm going to be okay. Everyone's going to be okay.

Well, they're not replacing the comedians. We're not worried about that. I think I have aversion to when everyone decides to freak out about something, a lot of times what that leads to. They're being a bunch of pussies. No. To be honest, I get it. Listen, I'm not, I can see that people are going to lose their jobs.

And then you can, you know, I'm not saying there's going to be nothing bad. I also see the negative things that are coming out towards us because of this. I also see like the negatives to society. And then you go, you know, we've joked that like, yeah, that's your future. Every girl's on only fans. Every guy is an influencer. You know, if you're a plumber, like, you're a YouTuber or whatever. That's a bad.

But then the other side of it where you go, every time there's like, kind of a new technology. I mean, I'm sure I'm just saying basic arguments right now, but like they've generally been wrong, but more importantly, the, the, the, like, overreaction from the public often leads to, like, worse outcomes than was originally going to happen, if that makes sense. So you're not choosing between, like, a, uh, uh, AI dystopia or, like a, a solved problem. You're choosing between an AI dystopian or this sort of like government regime dystopia and they're both, you can look at them as both bad. Well, I'm with you that sometimes the reaction is counterproductive or makes it worse. And that there's a backlash. There's definitely a backlash coming right now.

And what I say to folks is, look, will AI create some wonderful new jobs that we haven't predicted? 100%. Will it eliminate a bunch of jobs? Yes. the question is which do you think is going to be greater in number? Yeah. And what is the pace? What is the rate?

How long will we have to adapt? Things like that. And so people hit the way back machine to the Industrial Revolution and say, look, you know, we've been through this before. Cotton Ginny. Yeah. Or like the transition to industrialization really. Like, yeah, they say like New York was all horse-drawn carriages and then like overnight.

I know all of the historical patterns. Yeah, that was, yeah, I sure you do. Yeah, but it's that, but even in the beginning of the 20th century during the Industrial Revolution, you had mass riots that killed a lot of people. That's why we have Labor Day today. Yeah, people do graze over that a bit. Yeah, yeah, people are just like, you know, so it's like, oh, it's going to be like the Industrial Revolution.

I'm just like, look, our economy is, let's call it 50 times bigger and more complex than it was then. We're going to get rid of jobs faster and across more industries. and last time there were mass riots that killed people. So like where, which of this makes you feel great? I mean, that's, that's kind of my concern is the rate of change. It's like the speed of it. Because like, you know, and I specifically referenced like the call center employees, like, conceivably there could be none in by 2030.

Like that could just be a job that doesn't exist. Yeah. Right. It's not like we're phasing them out. No, it's going to happen fast. They're just going to be gone. It's a nightmare though. Imagine you're calling.

It's not. It's going to be way better. The nightmare is waiting on hold for an hour. Verizon just released data saying that their agents scored 13% higher on customer satisfaction than their human operators, which is a massive precursor. Well, a lot of their human operators can't speak English. Well, that's, yeah, but that's what we have. That is the point.

So you're going to call someone and you're actually not going to be sure whether it's a butter or human, but it's going to be delightful. And it's going to be a... There's going to be no hold. There's going to be no like, let me check. It's going to literally have all the information. And they'll be like delighted by it. The other thing is that a lot of younger people don't want to talk to a human anyway.

Yeah. You know, if you can give them an option where like, hey, it sounds my problem and I have to deal with someone like dope. Yeah. I've written in the Waymo's and they're awesome. I got to they're awesome. And they're around here now. Have you seen them around New York? Yeah. Like I was always even, you know, a year ago, I was like, well, they'll never figure out New York. Because New York's a zoo. York's safe, right? But they're here. As far as I know, there hasn't been any incidents. They're testing them. Right. But I see them in the West Village. Like, I've seen them a few times now. Okay. So you're riding a Waymo and you're a woman and you have no worries about being harassed or any kind of weirdness. You can like, you know, like shift something or like whatever at the back.

For me even, you can play music that you choose. Yeah, conversations that you don't feel like you're private. You can have confidential conversations. now in theory they could be audio recording you but because there's no human there like your concern levels very low and you know it'd be a problem if they were audio recording you um and in your case it's like you know it's like there are a lot of perks to it um and it's cheaper the whole thing guys and it's and it's and i mean it is arguably i'm not arguably it is safer statistically i'm sure it is statistically has to be safer yeah so uh so let's but this is the thing i want to distinguish between ryan is that i'm fairly pessimistic on some of the

macro trends and its impact on a lot of people. I'm extraordinarily optimistic in my own life, my own projects, my ability to like, make a difference to the rest of it. And so I actually see you in the same way where you're just like, look, I'm going, you know, I'm just going to make good things happen. It's going to be great. Like, da, da, da, dot. It's like the trick is.

On an individual level, it's easy to say. Yeah. I mean, there's never been more opportunity individually. I'm so glad to hear that for you. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Individually for any person, like, you can start, you know, you know, going to clot or whatever.

And, like, you can whip. up a whole business website, cost you nothing, takes you a day. Yeah, this is part of it is like, Yang is doing great. But, you know, the question is, like, all of the, you know, folks I met on the trail in Michigan, Ohio, New Hampshire, like South Carolina and the rest of it. And I remember meeting a lot of them being like, oh, I wonder how this is going to play out. And that's why I ran for president in 2020. It's why I started the Forward Party.

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So one versions of the future you think it could be. So like one option is the dystopian version. Yeah. And then what is the other option? All right. Here's the opportunity, and it takes a little bit of vision, so bear with me, guys. So AI is going to increase our societal wealth and GDP very significantly. Even if you think that the current investment environment is a bubble, which I do, there are still going to be massive productivity gains and top line gains. GDP, as we're having this conversation right now, is $84,000 per person. AI is going to push it over $100,000 a person. So for the first time, in American life, we're going to flip from there's not enough to go around to there's actually more than enough to go around. We're going to flip from scarcity. If you don't grow it or kill it, you die to like, hey, it turns out we're now in a world of abundance where I can give you stuff

and it doesn't matter. And the question is, do we actually embrace that abundance scenario? Or do we take the pitchforks out and start stabbing each other? Well, you give them the money so they don't stab each other. You're saying that it's necessity to avoid guillotine's. That's my argument. And I go to some of my rich friends being like, look, man, everything sucks more in the dystopian extreme inequality scenario, even if you're one of the hyper winners, because you then have private security for your kids and bulletproof cars and a bunker.

And it sucks. Yeah. That argument I understand. Yeah. Yeah. So that, and that argument works on a significant proportion of them. So if we can get to the abundance and start distributing it broadly, and this is an Elon like, hey, it's going to be universal high income. He thinks that the AI plus robots create all the value.

The thing that Elon right now is leaving it to our political system to sort out is how the value gets from the AI and robotics companies to the random family or worker or ex-worker, you know, like on the street here in New York or in the Midwest or wherever. And that's what the political system theoretically should be focused on right now. So that's why I ran for president to be like, look, guys, we're going to be hitting abundance, let's get the money, and let's just start distributing it to people. And I was saying $1,000 a month, which now doesn't even seem aggressive enough.

And now people look at that and be like, huh, by the time it was like, oh, that's crazy. It seems like the companies want that. Like if a lot of the, like if you think anthropic, I mean, he was just talking a lot about, you know, they just got, was it the government shut down Yeah, the shutdown their mythos.

But it's like they want like this like kind of big regulatory regime and distribute it's almost like secures monopolies. And I guess also we're Canadian. I don't know if you know that. I do know that. You sort of like. Yeah, you sort of watch what it looks like when you know

they have like a government. They're like trying to get like have like the government AI that like runs it. You go you kind of like watch these scenarios play out and you go it didn't end up better. It kind of ended up the same but with less money or something. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's one of the major unknowns right now is you have these mega private companies like Anthropic and Open AI and SpaceX and you're the government and the government's looking at it. You have various folks like Bernie Sanders being like government should own half these companies. And then Trump's like maybe not half, but we should own some of you. And then Open AI is like we need tens of billions of dollars. And also we need to be regulated. Ooh, spooky. Yeah, and please do regulate us a little bit. And then you have the Chinese AI companies.

I'm going to tell you guys an AI joke. It's fun. Yeah. All right. How far behind the U.S. is China in AI? And the answer is 12 hours because they just wake up and see what we did the... Right. Sure.

Is that money? Yeah. So... Kind of does seem like it. No, no. They do, though, have some structural advantages in that their shit is cheaper because they're, in some cases, you know, just pirating shit and copying. But also they have...

So intellectual property. Yeah, but they have subsidized... Like electricity and power. Yeah. government is like existential for us to win is AI and robotics and everyone get on board. Everyone's like, we got it, we got it. Here you're the private firms who have been able to access hundreds of billions of dollars in capital to compete, but their cost structure is way higher.

Yeah. And Open AI is hemorrhaging money. Like open AI's path to profitability, you'd have to be very, very, very optimistic. shall we say. So, and these models, too, there's like a bit of a zero-sum competition where, let's say that we all start using AI. In my opinion, naturally, there's going to be one company that dominates and wins. Like, when I was on the presidential debate stage a number of years ago, I was like,

guys, when's the last time you binged something? Right. It's like everything kind of goes to the winner take all as soon as they become like the best answer, the best search engine, the best nav nav. Well, I was saying this earlier, like I feel like with a lot of AI now. the answers you get from each of them are the same. Like it's almost commoditized to the point where it'll be a bit of like a race to the bottom or who can provide it the cheaper.

Which is going to make it very, very hard for them to get a lot of pricing power. Yeah. And plus like we're all broke anyway, like how the fuck we're going to pay for this stuff. And then for the companies, the way they're going to pay is by cutting workers. Yeah. It's like, hey, I spent a trillion dollars plus on this AI. Like I need billions from you. And then the company's like, well, I can get your billions.

Or it's just going to be an ad every single query. It's just going to be like 10. Yeah. See, I would see it more like the, you used Google. I see it more like Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, like those kind of. I think you see more like that because it's very easy for all these companies to be like, oh, it comes with something else you need. So you know what I mean? Unless it was free. Interestingly, Ryan, so you have, the reason why Anthropics valuation is shooting up is because their revenues are shooting up from corporates. Yeah, yeah, they're becoming like the. Yeah. So what happens is, and by the way, I run a like a mobile company. And we use. Claude. And we are not hiring junior engineers or junior analysts that we might have hired, but don't need them because we got Claude, and we spend a small fraction of it. One of the arguments I made on CNBC last week was, look, if I hire you, I'm not going to, I mean, obviously, like, if I hire, I'd like, no one would fucking hire Danny now. If I hire, if I hire, like,

if I hire a recent college grad, I'm going to pay, and the employee is going to pay the equivalent of 45% of the money in taxes and Social Security and health care and all the stuff. And I use claw don't pay any of that shit. It's like we're advantaging AI

over human labor. We're actually disadvantaging human labor by a factor of two at least. And so if I'm a business operator, which I am, like, what am I going to do? I mean, it's just not like solving the problem with the problem.

You're just like, they put all these regulations to make this really hard to hire and you're just like, well, maybe we, We should do the, it's like a, you keep, you know, when you keep filling up the different glasses to try to. Well, what I'm saying is we should try and get, um, the costs off the human and onto AI.

So it's like a both end. The biggest one, the obvious one is healthcare. It's like, I hire someone I pay for their health care. If I wasn't paying for their health care, then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's cheaper for me to create. So you pay like an AI dividend that's the same amount. Or the AI companies. And by the way, a lot of the major AI companies have raised our hands and been like Dario

Amadehthropic taxes on our tokens. Sam Allman, create a national wealth fund off of AI revenue. Now, they make these proposals, and then they might have full confidence that it's not going to happen because all the legislators are scared of them, and that's a true story. Is that your opinion? Because the way that I saw it was that they want regulations so they can, like, regulatory capture it. Well, some of them are sincere. Like, they actually are, because I'm going to say first, they compare AI to electricity. In what world would you have electricity both be unregulated,

untaxed. That makes zero sense. Yeah. So someone's going to have to regulate it and tax it, obvious. Yeah. Now, right now, though, our government is so behind the curve that our legislators are like, can't regulate it because we don't know what we're doing because we're dumbasses and they're so much smarter than us and we need them to win to beat China. And number two, can't tax them because we're afraid we're going to lose to China. And if we tax them in a little bit, we're hurting our ability to compete. Now, I'm going to suggest that both of those are just complete abdicated.

responsibility. And the second one, in my opinion, doesn't even make much sense. It doesn't even make much sense in the sense. Like, look, whether we win or lose to China is not going to be won or lost based upon, like, you know, what our Dario proposes a 3% token tax. It's like, we're going to win or lose. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, I mean, it'd be one thing that's like, we're going to like tax at all. It's like, okay, I get it. But if you have some kind of marginal tax, that's not going to control whether you win or lose vis-a-vis China, especially because our costs are so much higher already that you kind of need like model superiority to win this competition anyway. So, so logically, my opinion, if I were president, I'd be like,

look, guys, we're going to regulate you, and here's what we're going to need from you. We're going to need, like, early access to models and, like, safeguards and an off switch. Like a commission, a bunch of stuff. Yes, because right now, if you're like, if you're like, hey, if your agents go fucking berserk, how do you turn it off? And half the companies can't even give you an answer. Because they don't have that process in place because all of their incentives are go, go, go. I mean, one of the jokes is that there are 100 times more regulations to open a hot dog stand

in New York City than there are to launch a model that will touch millions of people. There should be regulations on both. And then the money has to go to people as quickly as possible. And a lot of the AI companies are on board because everyone hates them so much. Their approval rating right now is 26% lower than. an ice, for example, that they're probably getting, you know, they probably already have private security because they're scared to, you know, be around normal folks. Everyone I talk to is just like, yeah, fuck it.

Data centers, all that stuff. Now, what is, you know, assuming they tax it, like, what are the odds that the government even, you know, uses the money wisely versus what they normally do? So this is one of the major innovations one must make, my opinion, is you create a direct conduit toward the people. because to your point Danny if I gave the government you know whatever 20 billion dollars in an AI tax revenue five people get a dollar yeah they just like plug it into like the machine yeah they just add it in they never be seen again and and so what you have to do and then people are

going to mad at this like the Saudi oil dividends sort of yes so there there are models to this so Alaska has a petroleum dividend and it all gets distributed to Alaskans every year Saudi petroleum, same thing. You could do a version of that. And one of the things I campaigned on was a data dividend. I was like, look, our data right now is being sold and resold for $300 billion a year. And that was a few years ago, so it's probably hired now. I actually like that. Yeah. And then it's like, because these models got built on our data. I've written four books. I got a note from one of my publishers saying, hey, one of the AI companies wants to eat your book and put it into AI and they will pay you $3,000 for the privilege.

So what did I say? I was like, sure, I didn't even think they were going to pay me for that. Right. They were just going to like rip it. And there was some small part of me that was like, ooh, the AI is going to have my ideas in it. So maybe, you know, there'll be some Asian jokes there. Oh, good.

But then, you know, the $3,000 was for a book I published, like the average American seeing $0. Right. And even the $3,000, it's like, you know, no offense to anyone, but like, you know, like I probably spent that like pretty quick. Yeah, yours. One night with Chappelle. Yeah, one night with Chappelle.

That guy never picking up the tab. I'm kidding. He's very, very generous. You guys probably know. Like, I go and like, it's one reason why hanging out is so much fun. It's like the land of abundance. Sure. Yes.

Sure. When you were first proposing the UBI stuff, how much of this AI stuff was factoring in it? Because I know it was a bit before the AI was getting rolled out. Well, if you listen to my stuff, including the Joe Rogan, podcast from 2019. I explicitly was like AI is going to come. It's going to eat the coding. It's going to eat a lot of jobs. Did I know the exact year? No. Did I know what company? No. Did I know it was going to be like a large language model first? No. Like there were much stuff I did not know. Just kind of generally. But was I totally confident based upon my conversations with folks

in the industry that AI was going to happen over the next, you know, like five to 15 years. Like, oh yeah, I knew that. And then I also knew. So, One of the experiences I've had is that I was a miserable corporate attorney for five months in my 20s. And that is such an automatable job. It's insane. And that's a job. You go to law school for and you get paid six figures for and it's bullshit document review where it's like, you know, does this lease have the change of control provision? It's so AI-friendly.

Tax? It's ridiculous, huh? Like all like accounting? All like, like, unless you get a shady accountant. Anything that's rules-based and structured is. catnip for AI and that's accounting law a lot of finance and coding you know it's like and so these are the professions that you typically had to get a fancy education to occupy and then you get paid six figures and these are the most automatable because they're they're you know like there's a

right and those people are probably the most uh influential in terms of their getting mad at stuff and people listening well that i mean that i mean that's one of the interesting tests to this time. So the most powerful lobby in this drama is going to be the medical lobby. Medical lobby's like, no, yo, no AI, like, you know, doctor, it's got to be a human because we're special and the rest of it. Um, you know, on the other end of the spectrum, like call center workers, no one gives a shit. Yeah. Um, interestingly, like the coders, lawyers, accountants also more on the powerless end of the spectrum. The medical lobby, everyone's scared of them. Like, they're, they're, they're, they're, organized. They're like crouching there. They're like no one fucking touch our shit. It's one reason why we haven't opened any new medical schools in a million years because the medical lobbies constrain supply of doctors. If you think about it, that's some fucked up shit where we've had primary care

doctor shortages for, you know, as long as I can remember. Sure. And I went to, they constrict it. They constrict it. And one of my, you know, it's an Asian thing too. Like, you know how many pre-med people I went to college with? Sure. That would have been happy to like be like your doctor.

They're like depress the wages if they just all of a sudden have so many doctors. You know, the thing that pains me too, Danny, is it wouldn't even depress the wages because we have these massive swathes of the country that just don't have any doctors. Yeah. And so you could put it another issue there is that that doctor is not going to get paid a lot. Like if you get old-timey, you would be like, hey, I'm like the town doctor and I see random people. It's like primary care.

That shit doesn't get paid enough. The, or at least not enough for, you know. I think I could do that job. It's, people come in. You, they either have a colder strep throat. Or you tell them someone else. to go see. This would be if, like, you know, if I'm emperor or president, I'd be like, look, guys,

if you get a really warm, compassionate, caring human with AI, they can handle 85% of the routine things that people are going to come in in that town. They don't need to go to four years of medical school that costs like $300,000. And then after they have this $300,000 in debt, they don't want to go to. with a small town. Like if you took a caring human who right now might head to some other field and say like, hey, great news. You can like make people in this town healthier and will equip you. And then if it's like a real fucking crazy ass emergency, then you're going to have to go on a million dollars in debt to do it though. I mean, like in my world too, it's like it's like lightening it up. So what happens right now is

doctors have this debt and then they're like, fuck, I'm not going to become a country doctor some bullshit. Like I'm going to become a surgeon. Like I'm going to specialize. I'm going to become like a... Yeah, yeah. And then I'm going to get paid a truck ton. I'm going to have the penthouse in the West Village with my boob money. I'm going to work three or four days a week in a major urban center.

And, you know, and like that, that's the most competitive stuff. So what you need is you need people actually driven to help people that aren't as like interested in how much money they make and be like, hey, great news. And those people do not need four years of medical school. like all of my Asian friends who were trying to be doctors, whatever, they took organic chemistry in college, which washed out a lot of them because it was very hard, totally arbitrary. In my opinion,

does being good at organic chemistry mean you're going to be a good doctor? Like, I don't know. You probably not using it. It's just the same. Yeah, you're probably not using a lot of it if you're like a GP. Especially now.

I mean, you fucking forgot the formula. I mean, you don't need the formula to, you know, like be a good doctor. But they can just like look that shit up. I mean, like, so it's like our,

our, systems right now, I mean, it is again that quote. We have Stone Age brains, medieval institutions, and then God-like supercomputers in our pockets. And the medieval institutions are going to fight like mad. Yeah. And Americans are getting super mad about how behind the times the institutions are. And so that's why you wind up my opinion with like Trump winning twice with like all this other shit. I mean, I can go into it. Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone's like a populace now. Oh, it's like and look like I'm down in the sense that like I think the institutions have failed right left and like I've been like you know busting my ass trying to get some of them to work harder I am

the co-founder of the third biggest political party in the country by resources which is saying very little it just means I'm better at this than the greens of the libertarians yeah it's not hard to beat the libertarians yeah the guy in a unicycle yeah but you know Canada has how many parties five six five or six yeah so Europeans come to me and say love what you're doing because where I'm from a new party comes up every cycle they have like 20 parties in some of this Yeah, and then they merge and, like, you know, form coalitions and the rest of it. And the U.S., it's all about, like, you know, like, let's have as much control as possible, which means as little dynamism and genuine competition as possible.

So it's good fun trying to speed us up. I mean, you know, like I'm trying to speed up our institutions so they can actually respond. And what I say is that D.C. is on a 20-year tape delay, which has gone from being inconvenient to catastrophic, because the rate of change has accelerated so much. Like if you want to get something done, you're just like, yeah, we might be able to slot that in for 2040? Well, you know, I mean, we have an 80-year-old president right now. The average senator is 65.

Like, a lot of them have never checked an email in their life. Like AI, it's like sort of an abstraction to them. It's one reason why I enjoy Bernie is because Bernie, like, you know, he's old, but he gets it. He's like, yo, AI's going to fucking decimate workers. We got to do something. Like, you know, I mean, I always got along with Bernie on the trail. Bernie's like smart, cares about people, has great instincts.

What are your thoughts on his whole 50% owning 50% of the AI companies? Yeah, I don't see it happening in real life, but I get where he's going. Like I get where he's, I get what he's trying to do. You know, like, it's not necessarily the path I would choose. Like I've got this vision of like share the well, share the bounty. my concern around a lot of the Democrats approach is that they want money to jam into dysfunctional systems and institutions

and like I want to skip the institutions just give it to the people. Yeah, like without any explanation. And it's almost seems to start into it. It almost feels like a little bit more like I kind of used to have this thought where like America in a lot of ways how to get popular or you know

build like a political following. and I don't think you did this and I don't think a lot of some people did this but it was you find a group that has an enemy and then you'd be really mean to the enemy and it's like however much pain you can inflict on the enemy of this group the more they'll love you and...

Oh, that's a thing. Yeah, and it kind of describes, so a lot of that becomes more about like how do we punish an enemy and the, well, what happens this money and how does it help people? It gets pretty lost along the way. Dude, the people have become

almost completely irrelevant in our political system because our quality of life is degrading and deteriorating. You can see it in like any measurement you want to look at. And we're being manipulated by a two-party system and their accompanying media mouthpieces that are just like, everyone's settled down and we're going to give you this like fake conflict. And, you know, if you're mad, it's because big orange guy or if you're mad,

it's because like, you know, these libtards or whatever it is. Meanwhile, your- Is your slop. Meanwhile, your kids are never going to own a home, like, College is like, you know, a quarter of a million dollars and they're not going to have a job when they come back. And you're increasingly useless. Your daughter is a prostitute now. Yeah, it's like, yeah, go get the cameras for your daughter.

Like, let little Betty, like, show her where. Yeah. It's like, it's like, it's a lot of, he's not leaving. Yeah. And so, like, our way of life is, is degrading. And it doesn't have to be this way. We genuinely are the richest, most advanced society in the history of the world. we could give people much more in the way of possibilities and opportunity.

And here's like, I'm going to drop this on you guys. I don't think I, I'll see how you react, whatever. Maybe you'll like it. All right. Americans right now have been trained to say, like, we all have to be market productive and ass kickers in this capitalist system. And so you pretty much have to be capital efficient. The problem is that AI and robots are going to be able to do more shit

that a lot of people do just better and faster than most of us. And my joke in this context is, look, I'm past 50 now. So if I don't get dumber in a given month, it was a good month. Meanwhile, AI is going to get twice as smart that month. So it's like, oh, but if I just like, you know, if I just like, you know, take a course or or work or no, it's stupid. Like, I'm going to lose. It's like, I'm like John Henry with a fucking hammer.

It's like, it's stupid. I lose. And it has nothing to do with it. All right. So right now we're in this transition zone where everyone's going to pretend. like it's like no you can still make it if I just like you know build the AI around you and like you know make make it make you take this plumbing course like you're going to be okay it's bullshit so the reality is that AI is going to create gazillions of dollars of wealth if we can get our hands on it then we give it to everyone then what does everyone do and what we do is we actually create a new economy around arts and creativity so you guys would be among the most like baller people in the universe you'd be getting paid in like dollars I mean influence that already kind of happened in a weird way where it's like, I mean, I spent my, you know, most part of my early life, like, making videos and stuff like that. And then that became the thing that everyone has to do. Like, who saw that comment?

I saw your videos a million years ago, man. You're fucking talented. You're funny. Yeah, no. It's like every big company. Like, who would have thought that like every company had, like, guys went to went to medical school and now they have to be like a video maker. Like every big company is a podcast. A thousand percent. So you have the arts and creativity pillar. Then you have the health and wellness economy. And my example of this is at this point, we should be paying people to go to the gym. Like they shouldn't be paying to go to the gym. Like we should be paying them.

And then we should pay the asking. I'm on board. I mean, just for the healthcare side of that. Yeah. It's like the state. Or you get mandatory costs along. And then like that,

that energetic, awesome motivating trainer that's there, like whipping us all into shape. Like that person gets paid in the health and wellness bucks. And then they can go to the Knicks game for free or like, you know, like go get a burrito. So you create a health and wellness economy. And then you create an education.

nurturing and caretaking economy for folks like my son who's autistic. And the market totally disregards like a whole set of, you know, activities around like the old and the young and all the stuff. And so, you know, people aren't having kids. I mean, there are all these issues. So you build these new economies. And then you say, hey, guys, it's cool. You've got like the monetary economy for folks who want to make a go of it there.

And then you've got. So I was a nerdy Asian kid growing up, played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons. And so you had different classes who are like good at different things. Like that's what we need to bring to the U.S. There are people who are good at different things. The issue is that a lot of the things are good at. I'm basically a teenager. Not you.

I'm just saying in this scenario. Like, you know, if you're kind of not worrying so much about like, you know. Yes, it's going aptitudes. Like that guy, I mean, one of the things I said when I was running for president was like, we should have fucking free MMA gyms and like towns around the country just so the knuckleheads can go someplace where they can like get the aggression out and then have a national competition where they like kick the shit out of each other. Like who's the toughest guy in Kentucky?

Okay. You know, like just, but then you could build like various, the problem right now is that there's no market incentive for me to give the unhealthy person like access to the gym. Now could I say that you, you characterize like what I was saying is, you know, it's being very optimistic. Could that not just be the exact same thing? That is, I will say, yeah, that is pretty optimistic that people will go to the gym. just because it's free. Right. And like, you're right.

There are people like you. No, we're paying you, man. We're paying you. If people like you had unlimited time, you might find ways to use that and you might say, you know, like, you know what? I'll become an expert of this. I'll become an expert of that. And that might be all the people that probably would have been fine anyway. And what you might, you actually might end up with is

people that get their enough to live, like sit in their basement, have an AI girlfriend and or on Discord. And that's like, it could be actually that's what it looks like, you know? Oh, well, it's certainly going to look that for some people. Yeah.

And you'll certainly be disincentivizing for people. What if, but you go, what if people, I guess it's not like it's all at once. Like these things happen little by little and you make changes and iterations, but you kind of, the idea that,

you know, like, I have lots of friends that, okay, if you said now all your money's paid for, you don't work or it. What they'd actually do is probably just become like the craziest pussy hounds. And alcoholics.

Yeah, just be like, I just party nonstop. That's all I do. Look. And this, is one thing that, you know, I think most, most people, like, I'm for individual agency and choice and, like, I'm not someone who's like, look, like, everyone's going to be successful in any

version of the economy or any version of the world. It's like, some people are going to be unsuccessful, some people are going to be successful. And if your data was used to build these models and we give you some money back and you, like, you know, sit on your couch and, like, drink and, like, party and, like, go down various internet rabbit holes. It's like, it's your fucking life. And all the money will go back into the choice. It goes back into the system. Yeah, part of it, too, is that capitalism doesn't work so well. People don't have money to spend.

So it's like, if you got money, you choose to do this with it. Now, if we create avenues that people are excited about and you choose to pursue it, I saw this piece recently, you guys might have seen it, where this dude on the internet, very popular music critic blogger, YouTuber type went through the rabbit hole and was like, hey, it turns out all of our pop stars now or all of our musicians are from rich families. because being a poor musician is not a thing anymore. Like you can't just go and like, you know, make it that way. Yeah.

So. Is that true? Yeah, you can look that up. I mean, he, but he went through a document and I was like, I'm convinced. Like, is what I feel like it,

I mean, I don't know what pop stars, but I can think of like so many people on the internet. I hear a country guys who are definitely not that. Yeah, I can think of someone because right now all you need is a phone, right? And then you go viral on TikTok. I think money can't buy that.

I know like Taylor Swift's family. I was like, he might have taken a particular category or genre music. Like, it might be, yeah, I see what you mean, though. Like, there's definitely especially, people say that about, like, you know, moving to New York or L.A. It was like, you used to be able to go do that. And now it's, like, difficult. I sound like such an old man or I feel like such an old man.

I was talking to my friend who was a rocker. Moved to, move to Williamsburg, Brooklyn in 99, 98, maybe. And I asked him, how much were you paying in rent for that? off. They paid me. And he was like $520. Yeah. And it was a nice place. He was crazy, right? And it was a nice place. We're not talking like a shithole or a shoebox. I was like, that place was dope. Yeah.

And so he could then go be a rocker and do some random temp job and make ends meet. Make mistakes. And yes. Yeah. Like, and now that's just not a thing. That place is $8,000 a month. Yeah. Exactly. So I mean, I agree with that a lot. In some ways, we, we've definitely, you know, Like creativity, you can do various things. But to me, it's like, look, create a foundation and then create real like opportunities and avenues for things that we all dig, enjoy value. And then people will pursue them.

They don't pursue them. It's like, fine. You know, it's your life. But if people do spend more of their time and energy like in these avenues and we look at it and be like, okay, like I like my, you know, old, like, you know, mom or uncle, like going to that gym and having a delightful person like stretching them out and like them getting wellness bucks and being able to like live a great life is is dope and you know it's like and on and on like so ryan you were you were joking about how um it's like oh oh shit andrew i mean like

this is more optimistic than any of the stuff i am and and the reason why um i'm i'm where i am is because like i see this as the only way out of what otherwise is going to become this like massive extraction of work and value, uh, into these trillion-year system of humans. And like the K-shaped economy, the permanent underclass, all of that shit is math.

Like the, and like I'm like the, make Americans think harder like the math guy, but like I know the numbers and that's where we're heading. Um, but we're also heading towards over 100K, uh, in GDP a person and we're heading towards record levels of dissatisfaction with the

two parts. parties, you know, an appetite for change. So we can like make good things happen, I think, faster than than most people imagine, both positively and negatively. So like I spend my time trying to grind towards the positive. And I, you know, I still hope. I think we can do it. Yeah. Genuinely. I mean, all you got to do is like get this guy elected and then I start distributing the yang bucks. And then it's like, yo guys, let's go to the gym. Let's get that guy. You make a good point because there is something where as you go, unfortunately the conversation of this is good or bad.

You're like some version of this is happening at some point, whether you can design it yourself or it can be done to you. Oh, and I see the path of least resistance. I see where it's going right now. How do we do this without guillotine? And so one of the things I say is like, look, I'm a capitalist, but capitalism plus AI is no one's idea of a good time. It's no one's idea of a good time.

So the question is how do you transition into a different kind of human-centered economy as quickly as you can, and then who makes that happen? And I have nominated myself. I mean, I did. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I did. Well, and I mean, some of these ideas I just took from other smart people, but like I entered public life confidentially. Just being, look, my job is to alert the American public to the oncoming fourth industrial revolution, AI onslawn. I'm going to be the Paul Revere of AI in automation. And who, like, whoever solves it, solves it, like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I'm just going to do my part. And then fast forward now how many years later. It's like, okay, I guess like I'm still,

uh, like I, I still might have some more stuff to do to try and get us there. Now, do you get down call, town crying? I'm like, still Paul Revere like eight years later. It's way worse. Everybody. They're not going to be way worse. Um, boys, you've been hearing a lot about GLP ones, TRT peptides. And there's a ton out there. And if your health is number one priority, you want to make sure you're doing it right. That means, clinical guidance, medical oversight, no gray market stuff. That's Merrick Health. They work with compounded pharmacies right here in the U.S., pair you with a health coach and a medical provider and actually build a full picture of your health, not just throw something at you and

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you would be able to enact something like that day one? Like, did the president have that power? Does it have to go through the comments? So the gym membership? Well, let's just start with the checks. I think the gym membership might take a little more finagling. Some of this is very much on the table now. Like is an AI tax on the table?

It should be. Sure. Is like distributing the right and the left. Is this? Yeah. Fired up right now. Is distributing the gains quickly and broadly to people on tap? Like, yes.

I mean, to me, the problem is going through the tax system or the pipes, which I'm not against. Like, you know, I mean, if it's there, but I'd rather just go direct. And one element that has been like used to kind of as an end around is, I'm people going to mad at this too. But Michael Dell and his wife donated $6 billion to poor families. And they're doing it through Trump accounts. I thought the Trump accounts are a cool idea. The Trump accounts are a good idea.

And so, but like one of the things. It's only for three years though, right? I think it's just 25 to 28. Yeah, yeah. It's like new newborns. You know, you make less than a certain amount of money. It's $250 a head still. The theme is like money straight to you or your kids.

It skips the government. You turn 20. You got like a trust fund essentially. You hope, right. And I, you know, Michael Dell and I like met. And one of the things like I suggested was like, if you said Michael Dell, hey, Michael Dell, give the federal government $6 billion. He'd be, like, not really excited about that.

But if it's like, hey, Michael Dell, six billion to, like, these fucking poor kids, some of whom you'll never meet, but, like, you know that they exist. Dell also got a $10 billion dollar Pentagon contract, like, two months later. Sure. But, like, you know, other philanthropists, like, actually maybe not $6 billion, but they were like, you know, I'm going to give money the poor kids in my state or my community. Like, there are ways you can get money out to people like that if you're, motivated. Like if I were a president, I got the guys

together and be like, look, guys, I'm not going to ask you to give us the money. I'm going to ask you to give like the poor people in your community money. Like, I could get a truck ton of money. And they did them with stimulus checks. Like, there is the mechanism where they just send you a check to your house, I suppose. Yes. Yeah. So love the stimmies.

And, you know, Trump got a lot of love for them. But that is actually, in many ways, like the theme of this time is like, you have this government layer. It's not, not spectacular. There's a lot of waste. A lot of mistrust. the idea that they're going to, yeah, like the ideas that you come up with where you're like, and this is how, yeah, we agree that we're going to take some of this money, we're going to distribute it,

how are you going to do it. It's like, well, we're going to buy, you aren't involved anymore. And they're like, no, I don't think the next, next idea. Well, and so this is one reason why Forward Party and Andrew Yang, it's like, we're like this interesting figure because, you know, we're trying to bypass the institutions and the institutions don't love it to your point. They're like, hey, how about we just, you know, elect some business as usual Democrat and like let things sink into the mud. Because again, what happens to us irrelevant to the parties and the structures, it's like they're these billion dollar.

The parties themselves are billion dollar corporations. Yeah, yeah. Like hovering above us. And they'll pit us against each other while things get worse. Are you concerned about the debt, the national debt? Sure. How this all plays into that. Yeah.

versus, you know, like giving people money versus I said America is going to have to start repaying the debt. Wow. You're going to see Nancy Pelosi coming out and say, who wants it decorating from a patriot? America only fans. Like, so that this is

I mean, I've seen the arguments where it's, you know, AI is essentially going to we're going to grow our way out of this. I've seen that claim made. Look, I mean, I have some ideas on this front, but like I think it's solvable because it is math. it's like we we have uh you know it's called like peen shit it keeps growing so i we're about 39 in

change right now 39 trillion that's the number i was going for thank you dany so you have like a 39 trillion dollar economy the government um no that's the dad i think might be like oh you're thinking 39 trillion in debt yeah he has the counter no no but interestingly the the size of the debt and gdp i think are similar yeah i think i believe you right um so uh so we're the equivalent of like a family that's making 100,000 a year, that it was 100,000. Not great. But you can get your way out of it. Yeah, it's manageable. It is manageable if you did some straightforward things, in my opinion. So one would be, you either need a value out of tax or a minimum corporate tax, because right now you have very rich companies that are not paying shit for taxes. They're funneling it all through Ireland.

Every other industrialized country in the world has a value out of tax because it's ungameable, out of it. You know, you can't wriggle out of it if you're a company. You just pay it and you're done. we have a lot of very wealthy, successful corporations in this company. And if you had either a minimum corporate tax or a value out of tax, you could get hundreds of billions very straightforwardly. And, you know, people would be like, oh, fuck you. It's like what? They're going to leave like the biggest market in the world.

You know, it's like, of course not. Is that mean whether you're based here or there, you still pay the same amount of tax? Yeah, that's part of the genius of the value of taxes. Even if you're a foreign actor, you come, you sell. Don't you kind of do that anyway, weirdly? like, I don't know, like, for example. The answer is no.

I do. No, like you might because you're like a human being and you pay. I mean, I kind of know what you pay in taxes and it's very high because I know because like I live in New York City as well. Yeah, of course. It's very, very high. It's really high. It's about as high as it gets.

If you saw what we paid relative to what these companies are paying, it would make you mad because there would be like a company that is, well, like, they'll be like, oh, we didn't even make any money. It's like, oh, we didn't make any money because you expense this and you move the earnings there. And it's like any multinational can game their way out of paying U.S. taxes, even though they're selling a truck ton in the U.S. So if you solve that problem, like imagine and like this is like, if it's, if all the expenses that are human capital, I guess you get the tax anyway. So, um, all right, check it out. Like I've run companies. You guys run business,

uh, business of your own. So, so what you do is you look at it and say, okay, I've, I've got this like, you know, debt that's going up. Um, So I've got a revenue problem and an expense problem and then like a debt and interest problem. So you just tackle each of them in turn. So you go to like their rich companies and being like, hey guys, like, you know, shell games over. Like why is the U.S. the only one without a value out of tax? It's because our companies just lobby the shit out of it and prevented it. So if you had an appropriate corporate tax and an AI tax, you can like address your revenue problem.

So that one seems kind of easy. Like that to me, it's like. I would probably solve the whole K-shaped situation because you're kind of removing. from the wealthiest. It would bring down the top of the K, you know, a bit. And then the expense problem is interesting because, you know, like a very, very big expense items are a defense budget. So if you're rational on this, you'd be like, hey, guys, you'd probably trim down a little

bit. I was going to say we should invade Ireland. Hmm? I said we should invade Ireland. We either need to invade Ireland or trim the shit. But like, so like, now I'm going to say something too that like some people are going to hate, but it is whatever. You have a very significant federal workforce.

and in the age of AI, you probably could lighten that up. Oh, yeah. That's a tough one. But the reason why that's like a third rail is that workforce is generally unionized. And also, if you're a Democrat, you're like, are you fucking kidding?

Like, all those people are incredibly important and indispensable and fuck you for saying that, you know, you need, it's like, really, like, I've actually been in some of these government buildings and I bet you cannot tell me what half of them are doing. They don't know what I don't know. Especially if they have clod up on their screen, So you want to be a non-asshole about it.

You don't want to be like, hey, guys, you're all fucking gone. Like, you want to, like, you know, but you be like, hey, guys, great news. We're going to have the most fucking, like, generous retirement packages that have you guys have ever seen. Great news. That if anyone. I'll start with the good news. You're retiring at 40, but it's going to be very generous.

Yeah. And it's like, you know, and you cannot help but win if you're trying to, like, reduce your burn. over the long that you could give that person almost like anything in our retirement you're going to save money because right now like you come back 10 years that person's still going to be there 20 years person still making you know 50% more money yes and they have very very um um healthy packages and benefits and structure yeah like all of it so so there are expenses you would have to take you know like a a long hard look at um but on the interest rate

we pay in our debt, one of the reasons why the costs are getting worse is because no one thinks we're serious about actually getting the shit under control. If you were to go to the markets or the, you know, the world lenders and be like, okay, guys, we're fucking like getting serious on the revenue front. We're getting serious on the expense front and like our debt's going to be good. Like you can actually keep that from spiraling in a weird direction. And I'd be taking this on even though I'd also say like we're going to start giving money to people because our way of life has gone to shit and we have the resources and to the extent we're going to take we're going to take from the top of the K and some of the waste in the guts of our government and there's a lot of it you know

I mean they tried with the Doge stuff seemed like those so the Doge stuff too and like I feel bad about everything it's like what they ended up doing is like they ended up picking on the softest target that had the least amount of protection which wasn't great and it wasn't a meaningful amount of money anyway it was USAID and like all the the foreign yeah they're like we're not giving 200,000 dollars to some foreign country. Yeah, yeah. So they, like, again, if you were serious. Is it there's no truth to the argument that you go, well, that's where the most

scams were taking place? I just think the money was. Scams are everywhere. The money overall was so insignificant. In the scheme, yeah. Like, if you're serious, you have to go to the defense industrial complex. But then no one wanted to touch that shit because every party's like, can't touch that. Gotcha.

You're right. You're like, that whole thing was like that missile. that we forgot about in the corner. I mean, we wouldn't have won the war in Iran if they did that. I mean, I think, you know, so I went to high school with a guy who was in the Air Force, and I saw him back in town. I asked him how things were going. And he's like, good, good.

And then he told me a story over a drink. He was like, you know, my least favorite day of the year is when I fly over the ocean and just dump fuel into the ocean. And I was like, well, why the fuck do you do that? And he said because we have a fuel budget. And it's based upon how much fuel we use. Right. I know. That stuff where you go, yeah, our budget doesn't go up unless we spend to the penny, right?

I said this before, but I had a friend who worked outside of Toronto at a school board, and it was like near the end of their fiscal year, and they had a bunch of money left over, and they bought $10,000 in chocolate business cards. They didn't know what to spend it on, but they're like, if we don't spend the money, then we get, they don't increase our budget next year, so it just has to get spent. You know who are a big part of the Yang Gang were military veterans and some of them would come up to me and be like, sir, I have experienced universal basic income because that's how we all live on the military base. You know what I mean? I mean, like we're doing versions of this in various ways.

I'm not, you know, like I'm very pro veterans and like, you know, pro taking care of people. But, you know, like, there's a reason why there is military production facility in every congressional district in the United States. it's so that no one can... Well, you just said it's bleeding us dry. Well, no one can touch it because it's a job killer in your district. It's just like you can't get elected with that. Yeah, so, I mean, do you think, guys, do you think objectively it makes sense that you'd set up a production facility in every congressionalist?

That makes zero sense. Yeah, yeah. I mean, or it's the greatest coincidence of all time. Yeah, it's just that, but they did it because they're like, look, we're going to just try and make this as politically bulletproof as possible. It's clever. Let me tell you one of my things that I think is like one of the biggest problems now. Maybe it's going to be more people, but, okay, so for example, if someone gets kicked off the internet, like, if you get kicked off, like, you know, Facebook, YouTube or whatever, right?

90% of businesses, like, essentially run through there, even, like, small ones run through there. So I had an issue, like, my got kicked out of, I got hacked, and I got kicked out of my business studio, right? And basically, 90% of functionality I can't use anymore, right? And there's, you can't, you know, I've probably spent four years trying to deal with this issue, calling this person, that person, hire. this person and there's you would think like people go okay if you have a landlord that is trying to kick you out or a tenant that's not paying they have like a court system for that and the fact that there's these issues where you go you can basically make someone not exist their ability to and then there's no and I don't think this is like an executive thing you think

this would be like a judicial system the same way they for everything else when I think the problem my boss fired me for the wrong reason I can go somewhere if Facebook decides I can't have a business anymore. Right. Well, I think it's because one, well, most people don't pay them. But I think you can take them to court,

but you're like, well, you can take anyone to court by doing it separately. I'm saying if my, there's a specific landlord court. There's a this court. And there could be enormous economic consequences immediately.

And there's like no cost to go. You're costing people millions of dollars. Yeah, totally. I mean, the moment that that thing was like actually put into practice, they would just get their shit together. No,

no, this is a real problem because a lot of the tech companies are essentially running quasi public commons and if you get kicked out of the commons then you die or you starve or you can't Yeah yeah yeah yeah and so who can you appeal to it's like well there's some giant headquarters In California that doesn't give a fuck about like you know whatever you're going to say and it's like they'll even take your call yeah yeah it's like I get on the property yeah so um and you know I I have friends who've had versions of this and you know they're like massive economic consequences it's one

I mean so like I have friends with a lot of people who are creators on YouTube and whatnot and the algorithm changes like oh fuck and like you know all the stuff it's one reason why you guys hustle the way you do you're like I've got my live shows I've got my videos

I've got this podcast with yeah it's like because you're trying to you know like make sure you can't get fucked by any one platform yeah but I mean one of the reasons

and they can though I mean you run 90% of like ads that people run for their businesses like think about forget about creators. Think about the amount of businesses that are run through Facebook ads. Like that is, that is like the business model. Then that's Facebook, Instagram, like all those ads kind of run through that business studio. You just arbitrarily get it. You go, yeah, yeah, your business that was like crushing it. You go, you just don't have it anymore. And you go, that's picking, that's picking and choosing losers. Like that would be the equivalent of like a company

that was making a million dollars a year. Their landlord just says like, you're out tomorrow. And you're like, well, I have a 10-day lease or a 10-year lease. And they go, now we decide you're out. You go, can I, can I, can I, there's no one. And they go, you're screwed. Like, that seems like a third world shit. And it's not even being done by a person when you get the boot. It's just some. Yeah, no, it's a board.

Yeah, like, some AI, no, it's some AI detection just says like, hey, you're gone. Like, it's definitely not a person to do it. Yeah, so to me, that seems like one of the biggest things they have to figure out with that. And it's not a more government thing because it's a judge thing. You need, like a, it's a discretion thing. It's a judgment thing. You know, something like that's happened to me gently with various platforms, but then, like, I'm so cool and plugged in. I just got someone on the phone

and was like, yo, what's going on? And then I've got fixed. I've had a few of those. They can't do this. They can't solve this one. And so I feel your pain because I actually thought to myself, what the fuck would I do if I didn't like have that back channel comes? I don't fucking know. Yeah, yeah.

Like, you know, that'd be. The old thing would be like, well, too bad. Not everyone gets to be this, but you go, and there maybe wants some validity to that, but nowadays it was like, well, that's actually not true. Like, most people do actually have to be that. Yeah, I mean, meta for sure, but most of the big tech companies see themselves as bigger than countries themselves. You know what I mean?

We're not really subject to laws. We've got like a billion people on our platform all over the world. And so they're quasi-governments, to your point. Yeah, they're governments without a judicial system. Yeah, I know. They have their own judicial system and it's like what's some random. I know meta has like that person. They have that appeal.

They have like an appeals board thing. I don't know how it even works. Yeah, I mean, it's a wild world, guys. I mean, one of the things that I've really learned over the last number of years is, you know, there are like massive gaps between what you think of as like policy or government and like the companies now see themselves as above most of that stuff, you know. And then if the government comes breathing down their neck, they can just be like, you know what?

I'm going to like put a little bit of lobbying here and this, then, and that, that, that. like, do you really want to go down this road? And like, no one does. You know, like, it's one reason why everyone's so pissed off. Like, you know, like, I consider myself a nice, constructive guy or whatever. But if I were in charge, I'd be like, look, guys, like, you know, like, can the bullshit. Like, you're a landlord of, you're essentially like a landlord of people's business operations. Yeah, like, let's get it together here.

Let's, like, you know, build some kind of billion mechanisms and, like, come to the tail of humanity. And then if someone continued to be an asshole and be like, fuck you, Yang, I'm now. last you and be like, oh, I'm going to make you work. I'm going to make you make, make this very, very unpleasant. Like, it's my general way. It's like I want it to work without being a dick. But then, you know. And at least this country is they can't really, because like Canada tried something

similar with, uh, they wanted to tax all these social media companies. Like if you go like, you said you were just in Toronto. So if you went on Instagram, if there was a news link, say like in your story, if you click on it just says, like, like cannot be displayed in your region. Wow. Yeah, because basically the,

the Canadian government said, hey, this news, you know, outlet is providing free content, so they should be compensated, right? Even though they're not providing free content.

Also, we'll decide which ones, uh, get that money. Yeah, and we'll decide which ones, but they're a business. And they're like, so the Canadian government's like,

we want money. Every, you know, if you're going to show our, you know, articles on whatever, meta we want money and meta was just like nope

no thanks oh yeah they they get pushed too far they're like fuck you we're gonna like but they I don't think they could do that in the US they can do it in Canada because Canada is relatively small market yeah this is the point is it needs to come from DC

it's like the only chance we have really but like I've now been down there a fair amount like see it and whatnot and just like need a very different form of leadership. I mean, I'm not a Trump fan. You know, I think, though, that he got elected because of all the frustration and anger. And I feel the frustration, too. You know, I think there's still some very positive possibilities. I mean, that's what I hold out. On a personal level, like,

on a personal AI level, like, aside from, like, the dystopian future, I'll say that one of the things for me is every time I'm on it trying as hard as I can to be like, you know, at the forefront of this to some degree, right? Yeah. The most I've found is most of my friends. I have so many, dude, I have like so many friends that are like trying to be at the forefront of all this stuff. And it feels like most people have figured out how to have like kind of unlimited crappy employees. But to do anything like above that, I mean, even just like to make a flyer or something like that, right? It's like, I kind of have to use all four of them,

and then I put it in Photoshop a bit. So there's that part where everyone, in all the, I brought this up before, but people say that thing where they go. And I was reading the news, and it was right about everything, then it was when it was talking about the thing that I know about, it was wrong.

And then, you know, and it feels like I'm being told in every other industry and every other thing that AI's changed everything and everything that was changed. And then all the things that I know a lot about, not that much has changed. Yeah.

Well, I certainly rely on your own experience, you know, more so than the hype and whatnot. I mean, I have invested in a couple of AI companies. And I know that they are having a real impact in various commercial settings. I'm actually not as convinced in like the folks who use it for all their personal decisions. And it's like, yeah, you know, it's like you can maybe get a little more efficient and do this. and like in some ways like a revved up search engine where it'll like you know that's how i feel give you details um but i know in some commercial settings i you know that they can actually home in on like a task set um so i i don't disagree with anything you're saying ryan and we're

the arts so what i said we're in the arts do you think that there's something about a type of create human creativity that is hard to like you're yeah you're like a economics guy and a math guy and in some ways I think of things a bit like that but then there is something about like human creativity that is like I don't know if random is the right word but it's hard to replicate. So I was at a tech conference last week in Aspen. It's called Fortune Brainstorm.

And one of the demos was of an AI actress named Tilly Norwood. Oh yeah, we don't Tilly Norwood. Future of the industry. And so they busted her out and had her do like a custom thing for this conference. And it was like, oh, this is pretty impressive.

And then I was in L.A. yesterday and the day before and talking to some folks in the industry. You know, it's one of those things where, like, AI is 100% going to end up really, really hitting the creatives. I mean, you could replace actors with a homeless guy on the street and no one. Yeah, yeah.

Like, that's the thing. But, like, there will also be, like, a need for storytelling and humanity. The storytelling and humanity. Like, it's a both and. My comparison to this guys is this shitty M. Knight-Sharmelon movie called The Happening in 2008, when the trees decided to kill us. And they start with the cities.

He likes it. The cities. And then they go to the suburbs and then they, you know, end up in the countryside. And so Mark Wahlberg and Zoe Deschanel are like running in the countryside to like be ahead of the happening. So AI is going to home in on any groups of people doing work together and learn. large clumps. So if you had like a group of coders, a group of computer science, of, of customer service workers, a group of designers, AI is going to come and be like, ooh, what are guys doing? And be like, oh, I want to fucking bust that shit up.

Yeah, yeah, maybe two at you stay, the 80 of your guys. Yes, yes. So then they're going to be, so they're going to be a couple of creative humans, like, and the rest of it, but don't get too many of you together or AI is going to come and fucking. That's kind of a pretty good way to put it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I like, if you were to say to me, like, Danny, and you're a producer, it's Like, are you guys going to be fine? Like, sure, you guys are probably going to keep on thriving, you know. But if you hired 300 people, I'd be like, yo, this might. Yeah, you're probably going to have not 300 people. Yes. So if you were like 20 right now and obviously you have a lot of, you know, I know you always have kind of like young people in your system that you're helping

and kind of a learning from you guys. If you were that age right now, what would you do? Well, like would you go to university for, you know, Like, what would, do you know what I mean? Oh, totally. I'm actually working on a, like, you know, like I blog about this. I wrote, is college still worth it? I'm recently.

You go to Andrew Yang.com. You can see some of my stuff. It's not one size fits all, but people should take debt very, very seriously now because it used to be, there was something called good debt where you would get an expensive degree, but you would be able to make it because, make all the money back because you get some high paying steady job after. And by the way, you know who had a version of me? Like I graduated from law school in the 90s with six figures in debt, but then someone paid me six figures straight out. Now, in my case,

I quit that job after five months to start a venture that flopped. So I, you know, went a little Asian crazy. But isn't that the opposite of Asian crazy? Asian crazy would be staying in the job. No, that's Asian sane. That's a good Asian. That's like crazy for it. You do the safe thing. My parents would have been pumped with that Asian. So the risk reward was pretty like positive for expensive degrees X years ago. But like now I tell people it's like, look, the debt is real and the opportunity might not be. Like if someone were to go to law school today, it's like, are you confident you're going to be able to get a legal job three and a half years from now? Or are you confident maybe that you're going to be fine regardless?

Like are you that type of person that even if that thing closes down? you're going to be able to shift around. And if that were true, you might be more shiftable without the debt. Because now... I mean, imagine you took the cost of that education and put in the S&P 500. Or Bitcoin. Or whatever. Do let it do its thing.

Sure, if you were that sort of person. So I was at a college campus. I sure do do a lot of speaking. But I was at a college campus and someone was like, hey, I'm applying a law school. And I was like, sure you want to do that? Because, you know, you're going to owe, in this case now, like maybe quarter of a million something ridiculous and then is there going to be some high-paying legal job for that person three and a half years from now it's like I really don't think there will be um but I can tell you the

debt collectors will be there so you know it's like lean and mean would be my order of the day and so if you can go to college and stay lean and mean somehow I'm into it if your parents are paying because they really want it sure but if it's going to be on you and you're actually going to have to repay that shit back and it's going to like um the other thing I will say numerous studies have shown that if you have a college degree, you tend to be more positive and optimistic through life. It's just like, you know, just studies, whatever. So there are reasons to go to college, but, you know, you just want to try and get the best value you can avoid the debt load and don't think that it's going to be waiting for you because, like, I really don't think it's a good way to

put it. You're like, yeah, don't, because you're, you're kind of like, if you think of the, like, millennials, a lot of times, they sort of made these mistakes and a part of it was it's like they're going through the world with like a backpack and weights on that kind of like are when things get tumultuous the backpack and weights are that's the guy who dies when you're running away from the monster or whatever and when you have if you can keep yourself super lean in tumultuous situations you want to be you're going to be the best position to live yeah lean and mean scrappy like you know um totally uh you know i mean that that's where i am for sure what would you tell someone like what to take if they're set

ongoing. Yeah, what's not getting demolished? I don't think it's like a course of study thing. I think it is being adaptable and someone who can solve problems and build ideally. Like I have two boys and one of them is really into STEM.

And I don't think that that's going to have any commercial value because AI is going to be able to do advanced math. you know, very quickly, but I'm very happy for him to do it because it's at least giving him confidence and structured thinking and a work ethic and all that. So that's where I am in terms of like course of study. Like some people like humanities, I mean, I love the humanities, but like, as long as you're actually pushing yourself and grinding at it and getting something back, then to me that's the most important thing. Yeah. It's not going to, you know, because five years

ago you've been like learned a code and it's like now. Yeah, I know. Well, that's the craziest thing. It's five years. There's people who are probably graduating. right now who were five years ago. It's like, yeah, slam dunk, learn the code. It's terrible. To the extent that there's something I push people to do, it's like, look, the only way you can never get fired is if you're your own boss, like these guys, like this guy.

Like, you know, I mean, it's, now it's a bitch to start your own business, but. Less of a bitch now. Yeah, but to the extent that you can start inching down that direction. So that to me is sales. It's like, it is trying to start something and then, because the first thing I started flopped, And then, you know, you learn, you get better, you get better. You got to try and get some reps in. If you can use college to get some reps in, then you have a much better shot.

Yeah, so it's a... Like, when did you guys start getting comedy reps? I started comedy at 25. Yeah, so it's about the same. So late. No, I'm kidding. It didn't feel that way. At the time, it did feel that way.

Well, I remember I did music before. I was kind of doing music and comedy simultaneously, but I was making videos, but then stand-up comedy. I started at 25. So I was making videos and doing stuff like that when I was 16. What kind of music? Kind of like punk band. Nice. What were you in this band?

A drummer, singer. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. I like it, man. But no, you, but there was a... I can see that. Anyone who hasn't met Ryan, he feels like a rock star. Yeah.

A person is the tats. Oh, yeah? He's taller than you think. He's got all the stuff. Yeah, he's got all the, all of the, he's got piercings. Yeah. He's got all the accoutrements. You do that, um,

like anything that you get great at, like almost regardless of what it is, is useful in the future. So like when you're talking about someone getting greatest, like someone not getting great at it, but like if someone actually does it where they're like, no, I'm actually going to become great at this, that's almost always,

the same reason that like athletes a lot of times overperform afterwards. It's like even though they were just spent their entire life doing athletes. You're not going to be a pro athlete, but it's still all of the teamwork, resilience, coachability, like, you know, positive reinforcement, all that shit. You know what else? Being in a school play, it's a lot of the same shit.

It's like you think, oh, you're not going to be an actor or actress, but being in your high school play actually corresponds to academic overperformance and attending college and a bunch of other stuff. So that's where I'm with young people. It's like, you know, and this is tough because my kids are not athletic at all. But it's like. Math Olympics. Would you see?

Yeah, yeah. Like, but if someone comes like, oh, should my kid do? it's like fucking team sports that kid you know they can because they'll all like the right attributes that's why that's why i think when you talk about um the not having debt but also allowing people like make mistakes or whatever i think that urgency i see that with a lot of like young people where they're kind of like i need this now and you're kind of like you're the next five years like failing at something but actually try that's around that seven year mark you'll actually start surpassing the people that it felt like they that they're the next

they took like an easier route. So some, but if you don't have the, that kind of like wiggle room, uh, you do, you do avoid properly actually digging in and getting great at something. You kind of surface level,

stay okay at something. So you can do it quicker. I, I love that, man. I just did some math. It took me nine years. Uh,

so I started a business that flopped and then joined another company that went, ran out of money and then, um, became a party promoter here in New York. Uh, and then wound up, the CEO of Ignition, NYC, some good times. What was that like?

That was great. Rock and roll, yeah. He doesn't want people to know that side of them. I don't know. I was a cool guy. I'm just the math guy. He's out here. Just the math guy.

Running parties. It's got the glow sticks. But it took me nine, yeah, that's right. It took me nine years from leaving the firm. So yeah, your seven-year rule? Like, I feel like, you know, you're on to something. That's, well, yeah, thanks for coming on. Is there anything else you think I'm missing?

about AI? Dude, like, and the great debate. Dude, I mean, what I say to folks is like, I certainly hope all the optimists are right. You know,

it's like, I have a feeling that, I'm a feeling that me and Danny are probably going to get born out over time, but. I mean, yeah, like,

I hope I'm wrong. When you're just begging for your rations from the pod to come down. A little mouse feeder. I was joking with my team. It's like the gruel cannon where like they come around the like self-driving cars

just like start launching like nutrients. And we have these. receptacles to like collect it. They were like, the China influencer farms where it's just everyone has their cubicle of like doing their dances. Said the drones out and they start like making announcements in Mandarin for no reason.

Yeah. You can see a dystopian version of it. But thank you guys. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was great to meet you again in person. Yeah, yeah. You guys got to come by Noble Mobile HQ. No, 100%.

We're cranking stuff out today, but I would love to. That'd be awesome. Cool to check out. Excellent. And I got to catch a show. And I'm definitely, do not forget, hey, Yang, where is my thousand bucks out now? Book number four. That was $1,000 in 2019 money.

Right. Oh, yeah, that's true. It's going to be like, four bucks. You need like a little like those birthday cards have where it has like a digital. And the alternate title, which was said to me in the real life was, hey, am I racist or are you, Andrew Yang? and then I said like I don't know the answer to the first but the answer to the second is no no I'm not fucking racist I wouldn't do that I'm too nice a guy I was like yeah yeah

I'm not a Nazi but my algorithm is how about that sure all right see you guys later