The Boyscast with Ryan Long - THE WESTERN WORLD VS EVERYWHERE ELSE w/ Triggernometry

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Triggernometry is a free speech YouTube show and podcast ran by comedians Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster. The boys go over getting canceled, censorship, political ideologies, COVID in Britain AND MORE! SUPPORT THE SPONSORS AT Betterhelp.com/boyscast - 10% Off Your First Month SUPPORT THE BOYSCAST: https://www.patreon.com/theboyscast http://ryanlongcomedy.com MERCH - ryanlongstore.com Ryan @ryanlongcomedy Danny @dannyjokes Konstantin @konstantinkisin Francis @francisjfoster LEAVE US A FIVE STAR REVIEW! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, it is The BoyzCast with your hosts Ryan Long and Danny Polishuk. You already know what it is, coming at you, TheFox434, only streaming all the hits. And now here's another one from Justin Bieber. Is it too late now to say sorry? And we're back, and we're back folks, it was just a sample. Yeah, it's all we can afford. It's all we can afford on the boys' guys. It's a sample.

We're not trying to get sued over here. Do we are not rich men. But this episode is an interview episode. Came down all the way from the UK. And they're spending some time in New York. England. England. In it.

England. In it. In it. They didn't say in it. Yeah, they're coming through. They're doing, I think, Rogan in a month, too. Yeah, they're coming through. They're doing I think Rogan in a month too. Yeah, they're doing everything. They're doing the whole shebang. Yeah, so they came down.

We've been friends on the internet for a while. I did their podcast and super interesting guys killing it over in the UK and I'm sure a lot of you already know them but the boys from Trigonometry. The boys. It's the boys cast. It's the boys cast. The door. We're here with Trigonometry

Francis and Constantine And they're another Yet another people telling me and Danny That we need to live stream Dude, streaming's the future Live streaming's the future of the game This is, we're a bunch of fucking Luddites over here Down here, we're on the book

Pre-recorded pod This is, we haven't talked We were talking But this is exclusively a book tour for the immigrants love letter to the west i hate this is because are you he's trying to plant like seeds of division between us already fuck you constantine's book tours we're here to promote france it's nice of you to come by as well i'm here just to fuck shit off No but man We're having such a great time In America

Like It's seriously weird For us coming from the UK Like there's so much Like dynamism here Shit is happening here I felt like that too It's insane man

Are you the only Non-immigrant at the table? Am I the only Non-immigrant at the table? That's a way Well he's an immigrant Well based on that accent I guess he would be here

I would be here Like my mum is Is from Venezuela Okay So second generation That's a way to do it, isn't it? Well, based on that accent, I guess he would be here. I would be here. My mom is from Venezuela. Okay, so second generation. That's cute. Yeah, second generation. Second generation's cute, right? No, me and Danny moved here from Canada, right? Yeah.

But you find that more so since you've been in America? You find that it's already, you can feel the energy? The freedom? The freedom. No, this is the thing, man. In England, among stand-ups, there's a culture of going on and going, feel like the energy the freedom the freedom no this is a thing man like in in england among stand-ups there's a culture of going on going americans are stupid americans are fat americans are lazy they are fat yeah that is true but it's like you're a fucking idiot it's an american art

form oh yeah and not only that you're standing on stage you know with your converse t-shirt on your levi jeans your puns your night trainers drinking a coke saying america's shit it's like come on wake up it's just trendy to shit on america yeah it is it is but i am constantin loves america i love america i think it's great every time i'm here i just feel there's so much more opportunity than in the uk oh yeah yeah where when i moved here there was this there's this like idea that you can kind of actually do anything where i think that living in anywhere else you think that when you're like 14 and then everything sort of beats you down a bit and then you're just like well i couldn't just like start a huge company and you're just like no you kind of can do all the stuff and there's just there's so many independent people with such crazy amounts of money

yeah there is like anytime you start to kind of pop off, like all these people kind of come out and be like, yo, you want to make a movie? We can, you know, what are you trying to do? Like we, and to be honest, you're like, I don't even really necessarily need capital. I don't know. But it's available. There's like a magic that happens here where you meet people and you have a conversation and it takes you to a whole different place.

Like you just hook up with people and then suddenly like two days later you're doing stuff doesn't really happen like where we are at all you know Canada's same you sort of talk everyone talks about all like oh we should start a podcast in 2028 dude there's nothing worse right now than like comics we know who are like yeah I'm finally

doing the podcast Colm had the funniest now call him said this to me on his but he was saying that he has a buddy that's a comedian there's telling us he was like yeah i'm thinking about getting into posting clips yeah he's thinking about getting into it but it makes me think like how important it is to be first on certain things like you cannot wait like if you've got an idea in this modern world, you better fucking go for it. Yeah. You better go for it

because if we started Trigonometry three years later than we did, it wouldn't be anywhere. People aren't as triggered. People aren't as triggered. But the point was that when the pandemic hit, we already had something that people wanted to watch.

If you didn't have something before the pandemic hit, you didn't have a good opportunity there. Whereas we already had something. That's why the show grew. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just like,

it's a reminder for us. Like, if you've got an idea, you've got to go for it. Yeah, it's the right place at the right time, but you started it five years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm thinking into considering having an idea. We always talk about that with video stuff. A lot of comics will be like, yo, how do you make sketches

and stuff it's like I don't know go back to when you're 14 and do it every day for 20 years I don't know right make that

the actor that's popular that's like oh I'll try stand up and you're like yeah you should have done that 8 years ago this will be a nightmare

for you yeah and that's enough about Jeremy Piven he's a legend a legend pussy crusher Piven no that's the opposite it seems dark he came through yuck yucks toronto it was like do you imagine being like the star of entourage movie star and you're like catch me at yuck yucks we're not sold out yet because he had just been

canceled that was when he got kicked off of like he had like a biggest show and one of the biggest shows on cbs and then some girl was like, yeah, he tried to fuck me. You know, Jerry Piven tried to fuck women? Crazy. Wow. I was just about to ask when you guys are getting canceled,

but you've done it there. Yeah. I mean, it's up to YouTube. Danny used to get canceled all the time in Toronto. He was sort of a bad boy. I was a bad boy.

What was your biggest one? The original thing for you wasn't that you, when you kind of, the, you were biggest one the original thing for you wasn't that you when you kind of uh the you were going to do the university gig wasn't that kind of the first big like in the press thing so yeah i'll tell you the story basically i was i was doing a gig at a top secret i don't know if you've been to london but it's like the best comedy club probably in the uk it's incredible uh and i went outside at the time i used to smoke and this dude came up to me he was in the audience and said can you come and do a gig At our university

To raise money At our college Raise money for charity Well okay cool And then later A few weeks later I got an email From those kids

The students And they sent me This behavioral agreement form Yeah I remember this Which said They had a Zero tolerance policy On racism

Sexism Classism Ageism Ableism Homophobia Biphobia Transphobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia.

You can't even be xenophobic? Anti-religion, anti-atheism, and it also said that all jokes must be respectful and kind. Oh, God. You sound like fun. You're basically doing a gig for children. And they wanted you to sign it.

Yeah, and they wanted me to sign it. And what were the repercussions for violating it. And they wanted me to sign it. And what would be the repercussions? What were the repercussions for violating? I don't fucking know, man. Yeah. Like, were they going to really hold your feet to the fire being like,

you did this. Yeah. Would it be a fine sitting all just like with pen and pad? I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I don't think they thought this through. Yeah. And then when I turned it down, I had like,

I don't know, like a thousand Twitter followers at the time and I just tweeted about it and it just went super viral like around the world how crazy it was yeah

it was insane man that was probably when people were gaslighting people too being like none of that's happening it's good to be like look well that was right around

when Jerry Seinfeld was like you can't do comedy on college campuses and remember everybody was like oh yeah Jerry it's like so hard to do

sure you just think that and then this happens yeah yeah do you know one of my favorite moments of that is i remember when chris rock came out and said pretty much the same thing and there was this open mic comedian who then posted up on facebook what would chris rock know about comedy come on really man in in the UK a lot of the industry is like that like there's a super shit ton of like comedians who haven't really

achieved that much but they have a lot of opinions about comedy and there was a probably moment where those kind of

that brand of opinion was getting them on the chat shows as they call it yeah the panel shows right the panel all the panel shows

that you get to be on do those uh i i know we i used to write so uh what would the mass report be the equivalent of so the mass report would be like our version of the tonight show it's just more left wing and infinitely shitter okay well we have cbc in canada yeah right well what do you guys think that's where do you know i don't know how much you know about canada but do you think that i would say america's more but as far as like free speech stuff but do you guys think that's worse? I don't know how much you know about Canada, but do you think that, I would say America's more, but as far as like free speech stuff, but do you think that,

because you hear a lot about people in the UK being like, you know, going to jail and the tickets and all that stuff. And is it worse, do you think it's worse there than it is here? In America? Yeah. I think legally it's much worse.

Culturally, I think America is way further off the deep end. But legally, we've got a worse problem so we've actually implemented that shit in the law so if being offensive in a certain way is against the law yeah right you can have police invested we had a guy comedian called joe lysett he he was touring and an audience member reported him to the police. And they called him up and said, we need you to explain the joke. That's the old Lenny Bruce where they have to say it on the stand. Yeah. So legally, much worse.

But I think culturally. I was coming. But culturally, I think you guys in this country, it's way further. Like you're more polarized more angry more batshit crazy about shit but what we've done is we've taken the worst elements of that and put them into the law so there you go that's kind of what canada probably is but i think canada is more batshit canada there was a comedian we talked about but he had to go explain his joke to the supreme court was that mike ward yeah he literally had to go in front of the supreme court of canada

right and explain why this was a joke and not hate speech. One of the biggest ones in the UK. I know Count Dankula's one. So there was Count Dankula, but it's also, this doesn't just affect comedians. This is a really messed up thing. This affects ordinary people. So ordinary people post a joke up on social media,

and sometimes you go, okay, look, the joke isn't particularly funny it's offensive and the guy doing it he might be a bit of a dick but you don't fucking criminalize people saying dickish things online which is where we are now so this guy but i don't know if you've heard the story of the grenfell tower in london no grenfell is stabbing no if i see uk in the headline i spit welcome to america yeah that makes you french ryan but um so it's a tragic story where there was a fire in the tower and because uh people got the wrong information from the fire service they stayed in the tower and literally burnt to death

suffocated to death and this guy it's a great comedy it's a great comedy wait for the punchline and this guy did a replica of the tower and him and his mates got drunk they put it on a bonfire and then they videoed it right and then and it went super viral and then they ended up getting investigated by the police and convicted yeah convicted of just being tasteless uh I think it was grossly offensive. Like, we got all these sorts of... Sort of like the Logan Paul thing, I guess. And by the way, like, what a fucking horrible thing to do. Yeah.

Right? But it shouldn't be illegal. But we've had situations worse than that. So we have a supermarket chain called Asda. And they used to sell DVDs by a very famous British comic called Billy Connolly. Super respectful. He's been cancelled? No.

Well, he hasn't been because he's too old to get canceled. Right. But what happened was this dude who worked in the supermarket posted a clip from Billy Connolly's DVD on his Facebook about religion. Asda fired him for selling, for posting something from a DVD that they fucking sell. That's good shit. That's the position we're at, man.

It is absolutely insane what's going on. Because it's got into the law. That's why. And is there any chance for some sort of course correction or because it's actually in law? How do you go back from that? Who knows, man. Because until recently, even the right-wing party actually has been going on. We've got a bill going through Parliament now, which is called the Online Harms Bill, Online Safety Bill,

which will make it explicitly under the law that comedians have to filter their jokes. And the organization that broadcasts that stuff could be prosecuted if their jokes are found to be offensive. Does that make you want to just move? It makes me want to kill myself. But it's really interesting because it's worse in Scotland because Scotland has their own law. They do have wild stuff going on over there, don't they? Yeah, they do.

And they're even more batshit mental about this stuff. So Count Dankula was prosecuted in Scotland, and they're far worse. They're far more authoritarian. They're far more stringent when it comes to prosecuting people. It's something about the further north you get, man, the more liberal you become and the more authoritarian. Like you boys know.

I'm fucking Canada. You've lost your shit. Why is that? I don't know. I was going to ask you, why is that? I mean, to me, it seems like it's just cities. Just fun and near the equator. Yeah.

To me, it's cities because that doesn't hold up good here because here because if you look at los angeles is probably as crazy as anywhere yeah so i don't know maybe it's just like maybe there's something to be about i would say if there was something to that it's the richer people lived in the north um and the south is more like farmers and farmland who are more working class and then if you go up to places where it's cold, like you don't want to live there unless you have like a job in marketing. So maybe it's that people, like the people in the North are more likely to go to college and be like a college kid behavior.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's insane. It's insane the way things are going. And the thing that really blows my mind and the thing that really gets to me is comedians who are advocating for this. Yeah, they fucking love it.

That's because I think that people in entertainment will advocate for, I feel like most people, most of them, how many of them you knew that you are, they didn't think about adding you to this shit and then like three years later, they're all in. It was like, well, yeah, because it helped them. So I think that. Well, they've recognized that there's like this power game going on

and they're just now playing that game, right? Where they go, like, I can remove my competitors from the, you know, they're like, if this person I feel is a competitor, I can remove them under these new rules. I just rat them out. Well, yeah, it's like there's a new king in charge, and it's like, hey, we're giving huge grants out of where we're from. It's like grant systems, everything.

And it was like, yo, massive grants. Like, you get on the TV shows, all you got to do is pledge your allegiance to this thing. Everyone's like, yeah, okay, whatever. It's like, you know, every president in America has to go up and be like, yo, massive grants, like you get on the TV shows, all you got to do is pledge your allegiance to this thing. Everyone's like, yeah, okay, whatever. It's like, you know, every president in America has to go up and be like, I'm religious. Like, what percentage of the presidential candidates aren't Christian?

Yeah, like remember Trump, he would quote the Bible, but he would missay how you're even supposed to say it. He says his favorite book. He'd be like, Corinthians 1-2 or something, and you're like, that's not how religious people say it. I'll tell you what's kind of weird about what you said, though. Because it almost doesn't fit into that thing where you said that he posted a thing making fun of the Bible. Whereas I feel like here it's almost like you could, like, Bible's on limits.

You know what I mean? It's the opposite where you're just like, if you made fun of the Koran, you'd be in trouble. Well, it was about religion in general. It was several different religions. Oh, now you're getting into the problems, buddy. You want to make fun of fucking religious idiots from the South? You got our blessing. Well, this is the thing.

Have you noticed what's happened with comedy? The people I grew up admiring were people like George Carlin and Bill Hicks, and these were people who were pushing against the religious right, right? Because they were the ones saying, don't say that. You can't say that. You can't do this. Don't offend this. can't say that you can't do this don't offend this don't do that and now we've gone full circle where the people that are restricting what we what we can joke about and say the most are the religious left

they've got a new religion yeah the zealot they're the zealots right for their right their shit and i and the thing is like we've always been in the middle going like just stop telling people what to say yeah right and i don't care if you're left wing or right wing i just care about you telling people what to say but it kind of just goes around in these circles so i reckon 10 15 years from now we'll be back to like pushing back against some form of religious right quick too yeah i honestly even think a year ago i'm just like things have changed so like just the infighting and different things like movements sort of self-explode within like a year, you know what I mean? I've seen you sort of fighting with

both sides online pretty frequently, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, to me, that's what you're supposed to do. Like, that's what I think about. If you're trying to be like an honest... Broker. Yeah, broker. Well, then you're an ideologue at that point. If you just, one side, you go, oh, we'll just give you...

It can be more profitable. I mean, for sure it is. See, this is what people always say to us. It's like, oh, you're an ideologue at that point if you just one side you go oh we'll just give it it can be more profitable see this is what people always say to us it's like oh you're just like both sides like it would be the easiest thing for us to be like we're conservative because we've been spending a lot of time calling out this work bullshit so we do have fans that watch us who are conservative the best thing for us money wise

is just to go we're on the right we're just going to do the same thing for us money wise is just to go we're on the right we're just going to do this look for that daily wire check yeah right yeah right but we don't want to do that because someone has to hold the fucking middle yeah you know what i mean or just also like what do you actually think too right yeah i think it's easier to it's easier um to you know when you're kind of in some business models just be like you know what who cares what i think it's like being this cheerleader for like a hockey team or whatever you know i when you're kind of in some business models, just be like, you know what? Who cares what I think? It's like being this cheerleader for like a hockey team or whatever, you know what I mean?

Or whatever sports you guys play over there. Like also hockey. Football. But you know what I mean? If you get hired to be like that guy, yeah, that's probably, but it's a lot different than if you're just like, hey, I'm going to actually say what I think.

Because I always feel like if I leave what I think, then I go, then you're just like floating. It's like if you leave your own fucking compass. Yeah. And the thing is as well, it's like this, you know, you listen to talking points from the right. You're like, ah, you know, I believe in freedom of speech. You're like, great. They say, you know what?

I believe in self-determination. Great. You know, I, and then they go, I hate smoking weed. And you're like, Hey, that's France a foreigner. That's France's personal boundary. Yeah. And the moment they go, drugs are evil. Let's ban everyone from doing drugs. You're like, you know what?

I'm off your fucking team. You're making no sense now. Yeah, yeah. If you fucking want to come for the ganja, now you've got a problem. You will never take our ganja. But, you know, that's the thing. It's like every side. The left has got some fucking great ideas.

You know, the reason we don't talk about it as much is because i'm from the left and there's a lot that i i think it's great about the left and there's a lot that's that's great about the right but also they've got stupid ideas on both sides and you should be free to go you know what that's a great idea that's a great idea this is stupid this is retarded i ain't playing this game yeah but then you lose so many of them people forget pretty quickly can't disagree with us so many times

people it's like that's you know how many people like to use people so it's like you'll see someone be their number one enemy and then he says

something they like now he's your number one hero like that'll happen like the barstool guys loved and hated five times by the same people within the course of a year

but I always I feel like the way that people look at it it's kind of like so silly because it's like maybe i'm like i always when people talk about like liberty and like libertarian stuff i always feel like it's kind of like medicine you know what i mean where it's like well sometimes like a society needs that medicine you know where you're just like well if a society's like super right wing and everything's taking over it's like you actually don't really need right wing people like saying all that stuff. Right. It's almost like it depends on, I guess you could say it's a pendulum thing, but it's also like there's a culture creates the, you know, the political thing too.

What you're saying is Donald Trump was the cure. Yeah. Donald Trump's chemotherapy. That's the title of the episode. Chemotherapy very often kills the patient. Right. But, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot, man, because, like, this idea that you have to have a fixed political ideology that never changes, it doesn't make any fucking sense. No, I agree totally.

If you say to me, what's, like, because, look, the argument between progressives and conservatives is about one thing, really. It's about change, your attitude to change. Do you want change or do you want things to stay the fucking same? Right. And that's that's the argument that we are there having. Now, if I say to you, what's the best thing to do when you're driving a car? Do you speed up or do you slow down? It depends.

It fucking depends where you are. It depends where you are geographically. It depends what you're trying to do. Exactly. Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. So the same with sometimes you need to be a bit more conservative when society's going a bit too fast. And sometimes you do need to change because shit has got stale.

You can also think of it as like if you have like masculine and feminine like parenting and you have like three kids and you go, which one's better? It's like maybe it depends on the kid. Like the kid who's like crushing it and is like this like ultimate champion actually probably doesn't need like the coddling mother but the kid who's like a total mess and like it shuts down anytime it gets yelled at like that guy actually might need like positive like oh come on we go it depends but then if it's like the drug addict and you have them like oh let's just give them money to

solve this problem it's like you know maybe the money's making it worse you know what i mean but the problem is now everyone wants a fucking team that's just i mean i think always yeah yeah it's such an easier position to hold i've met people where they go like i'll never i'll never vote republican or i'll you know never vote i'm just like no matter what every time the time to vote i just i know who i'm voting for for the rest of my life i'm like it's crazy to me wasn't that the Republican guy this is America but he was like the guy that basically had like

a 15 year old girlfriend and it was like in fucking I don't know not Texas but somewhere like that and he was he was like the candidate and he's still like

I think he's still won or he almost won by like a pretty close margin because it's like people are like well what's the other option vote for a Democrat 15 she's old enough that's fine yeah and his Because it's like, people are like, well, what's the other option? Vote for a Democrat?

15, she's old enough, that's fine. Yeah, and he was kind of one of the, I think it was one of those things where you basically are like, they have laws where you're like, yeah, the parents consented, and you're like, technically it's legal, but pretty weird for like a presidential candidate, but everyone's like, yeah, what, do I vote for some fucking libertarian? See, we do things differently in the UK. Someone like that who's an older guy with a 15-year-old girlfriend, we give them a job at the BBC.

That's what we do. Boom. Francis loves getting that one in there, no matter what we do. Jimmy Savile. There's loads of them. I mean, I will say that it made him kind of famous over here. Nobody knew who he was before the Bucks came in. Well, it's part of his brand now. He actually had a 15-year-old girlfriend?

Oh, mate, more than that. Oh, no, this guy was like the most notorious like pedophile yeah they knew about it right yeah yeah they all knew about it and it's been a consistent thing so you know and here's the thing i remember my dad saying so my dad comes from a very working cast part of the north of england my dad i think it was his mom said they could put a donkey with a red rosette up for election in Wigan and the people would vote for it. Red is left in our case.

Red is left. Red is left, blue is right. That's weird. It's the other way around. So people have always had those identifications. Tribalism is part of who we are. It's so funny though that there's these kind of hallmarks of the colours

and then it's opposite. You go just across and you go, yeah, we do the opposite. I always thought it was bizarre that here the Democrats, their thing's a donkey. It was like no one was like, that's not like a good fucking animal. I don't know how that doesn't get made fun of more. Dude, an elephant, I mean, whatever.

It's something good, but you're like, hey, donkey's like, it's the worst animal to be called be called but no but that's just the way it is man and i think the problem is is that people don't investigate it enough they don't actually question it enough because if you did just spend five minutes and actually took time to think about what it is that you're advocating for and what it is that you're speaking about you might actually realize that you don't know as much as you thought yeah people don't like doing that yeah if you want to do work to then finally realize that you actually don't know what you're talking about and all this shit you've been spewing out publicly was and life is complicated yeah all this stuff or you just be

like yeah i'm on this team and sometimes we win sometimes we lose but i know what team i'm on well everyone can kind of remember being a kid where like you know you like watch some guy and it's sort of like you're like oh i just think all his things now yeah like i remember like howard stern was a little bit like that when he first came out or whatever everyone was like this guy's so sick and you know he'd be like you'd be like this guy's pretty funny howard stern be like that guy sucks i'd be like that guy sucks you know what i mean because you've got to go through that because that's the journey of a human being right you go you go too far into this and then you got to go through that because that's the journey of a human being right you go too far into this and then you go too far

into that and that's how you become like a whole person yeah so it's part of life man I think everybody's got to go through that yeah I think so too

there's like it is kind of it's just weird where people always kind of discuss like you know is voting important

or whatever and I was like do you think the prescription is what you said, where you go, you know what, you need to like actually learn this stuff. Or for some people it's like, no,

just fucking don't pay attention to any of this stuff. I don't know. Like, obviously you're in like, you're a cultural commentator and I, so am I. And a lot of people, it's like,

this is kind of sports for them too. Right. To some degree. Yeah. Or some people, you know, whatever care, whatever that means.

But like there is some, yeah, most people don't give a shit about any of this they just live some life well i don't know no a lot of people did over the last four years i think but i'm still saying as a total like you know subset it's still a subset of the population like overall i think most but you know what i mean though even caring when people go you know i really care about that you go even that it's like it's just a belief That you Like You can trick yourself Into caring Doesn't make any Like

Things can be like Fake and real At the same time You know what I mean Yeah You go I hate that guy And I have this visceral hate

But it's like Yeah but someone Like tricks you Into having that It doesn't make it Like authentic Just cause you So even if

Even if you have that emotion It still could be fake Is this too esoteric No I don't mean Like Maybe not exactly right But but with the abortion stuff and the amount of women in New York City, even comics right now, they go, they took my rights.

They didn't take anything from you. Nothing's been taken from you, but they just, I don't know, they just like to be angry and act that way. Is that as big of a topic over there, or is that just settled and done? This is the only place where it is a topic. What happens with politics in America

is that it starts over here, it has no impact in the UK, but it still sends everybody fucking mental. Yeah, I was saying

there was, I saw in Melbourne, Australia, there was literally a pro-choice rally in Australia related to Roe v. Wade being stricken in America.

What does this have to do with what's going on? Yeah, but Danny, we do this with everything. So during BLM, for example, we had people protesting in the street against police officers going, hands up, don't shoot. I remember that. They don't have fucking guns. Yeah, they don't even have guns. But we just fucking ate whatever you guys are doing yeah that's what we do

there was a pretty crazy one that happened here like there was well forget the guy's name george floyd african-american fellow no it was last it was last week And Okay his name was Andrew Teckel Sunderberg Oh yeah this is This is so interesting

But basically It was kind of You know he was shot And stuff like that And it was kind of Becoming a big You know news story Like another one

And in Minneapolis Yeah it was in Minneapolis Okay But then So they were protesting Outside of his apartment Or whatever And then the woman

Who he was like dating Came out and started Yelling at the protest And she was like He had a gun pulled on like my three kids and gun pulled no no no like all this stuff this guy went he lived he was like a woman uh uh i read this so she barely saw the video yeah she barely knew this guy okay he started shooting into her apartment she had like 10 she had two kids she's like my apartment was getting shot shot up she called the police the police showed up. He barricaded himself. And then snipers killed him six hours later after some standoff.

And they tried to get him out. And he wouldn't. And they were like, he had really mental issues or whatever. And then because he was black, there was a protest outside of her home against the police. And she's like, he was trying to kill me and my kids. My whole kitchen is riddled with bullet holes. And she was yelling and screaming at the protesters. She's like like my kids are black like there's nothing to do with race like this guy tried to kill me and my family the police did the right thing and then they're protesting and people are like literally at the protest being

like well at least you're not dead no one girl one girl goes not the time and the place yeah not the time of the place and then they set up time and the place. And then they set up GoFundMes, and his GoFundMe was way higher than hers. And she's like, I'm the victim here. Yeah. Snipers lives matter, man. She's like, I'm the fucking victim. No, that one was wild. That's a crazy one.

Yeah. I feel like people in America don't get what the public broadcasters have wild there. You guys get it because of BBC. But, dude our public and i've i've worked with cbc i like made tv shows and stuff there when i was in canada like dude i think this was maybe five five months ago but i was like one of my favorite ones where this the cbc released articles on how to do proper glory hole conduct because of covid and they've literally had one of the things they're just like one of the things in the government's article on glory holes was don't use gendered language at the glory hole it's like my favorite thing if you ever use glory hole you know not to do that anyways of course you don't know what i mean yeah you don't know who's on the other side

sir or ma'am or gender neutral yeah or it could be either yeah you just don't know who's on the other side of that. Sir or ma'am. Or gender neutral. You just don't use any gendered language. You just don't use any gendered language. Just suck the non-binary penis. What's the trans sports stuff in Britain? Is that as much of an issue? Yeah, it's a big issue. Are they winning?

They're fucking cleaning up over here. It's almost like they have an advantage right now. Are they actually like... Is there in colleges and stuff where there's transgender... Well, we don't have college sports system like you guys. So it's much less of an issue at that level. But we do have them in like in the elite sports. Oh, really?

It's a situation. Yeah, in cycling, I think there's a transgender. Oh, yeah, I remember. Emily Bridges. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, you know, people call Britain like Turf Island because there's a lot of gender-critical feminists

in the UK who are pushing back against it. Old school ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of very angry women, man. They're fucking angry lesbians. That is sort of okay, though, if you have like really like angry feminists and it's pointed at not you. Yeah, on their side this is great well as comedians we would naturally

be pissing feminists off usually quite a lot whereas now they're like on board for a while but that will i feel like that's not really not really that much here yeah not that much here no is that not the case here no i don't think so no I don't think so. You see one, that's the J.K. Rowling, people like that, it's like, no, you might as well go up and say

Hitler had some good ideas. It feels like something you're really, you couldn't do that and then go be a Hollywood movie star, for example. That's things you can't say.

No, in the UK, you'll get punished for it. Yeah, J.K. Row it. Yeah, for sure. J.K. Rowling is like... Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, we had a guy on the show who's a friend of ours. He runs the oldest family-owned Italian in London, Italian restaurant.

Okay. And he did a fundraiser for Ukraine with J.K. Rowling. Nothing to do with transgender issues, just a fundraiser for Ukrainian orphans. That's what he did. And then the next day, she tweeted about it, saying, I was really pleased to help raise this money. Next day, he's

got a bunch of negative reviews on his TripAdvisor. And the day after, there's no evidence that this is connected, but this I'm just telling you the chronology. Someone smashed the windows of his restaurant. Unrelated. Unrelated. Unrelated. I'm sure it could happen to anybody. Just coincidence. So it's not like entirely uncontested.

It's a problem. But what's interesting to me is this like fragile alliance between like comedians who believe in free speech, conservatives and like left wing women who are just tired of the trans shit. To be honest, you saying that makes me pretty kind of team trans. To be honest, it was kind of like a fun argument like a thing to argue about all these because girls were always like no it's actually nothing

you're just like no it's but if every girl in unison was like yo this is actually bad I'd be like this rules I mean I've always just said

with the sports stuff it's like I didn't care about women's sports before and you're not going to trick me into caring it's like if you guys want to ruin

women's sports go for it it's not some massive loss but you going to trick me into caring it's like if you guys want to ruin women's sports go for it it's not some massive loss but you know the thing that's so funny is like you know like you've got the like the hardcore

conservative commentators saying you know women should get back in the kitchen right and then you've got like the hardcore feminist going well at least he knows

what a woman is you know what I mean yeah that's so funny the prison stuff where they're like oh man we've got uh you know uh women impregnating they had there was there was a in new jersey one guy just got a couple girls knocked

up yeah he's a woman yeah a woman knocked up a couple women right yeah fucking bigot and uh yeah but it's and then they like had to move you know and they don't know what to do because it's such a new playbook they're just kind of going along with the, you know, going with the wind, if you will. I always thought there's a simple solution, which is if you got a dick, you don't belong in a women's prison. I mean, I know it's controversial, but. I mean. Would be the move though. Yeah, I can't.

It's not been tested, but I do think it's a good theory at least. It does come up with brilliant headlines, like woman ejaculates into wheelie that's a real story i'm not making it yeah like when they throw the semen at the guards and stuff like that yeah yeah so it's like this dude in a dress just jacked off into a wheelie bin and the next day it was woman ejaculates into it it's it's literal clown world man yeah so we got all that going on yeah man yeah it's and you can't joke about it well yeah so i guess it's illegal there what would happen do you reckon if you went on stage like the comedy store and did a joke about that really you really is that not even worth challenge like ricky gervais they special like

all about that see this is the thing that we always talk about when it comes to freedom of speech and comedy right Ricky Gervais Joe Rogan Bill Burr

you even us at this point Chappelle we have freedom you and I can make any fucking joke we want right

is that fair to say kind of yeah maybe not on TV but like on well not even technically on Twitter I'm sure there's a joke that gets you kicked off.

I got kicked off of things. Yeah, but you know what I mean, though. In an audience. If you're doing it to your own audience, you're going to be fine, right? Yeah. The problem is people who are just coming up through the circuit,

like we were, I don't know, five, six years ago. You're sort of early days in that world. You're dependent on comedy club promoters. You're dependent bookers they have zero fucking freedom of speech because at least in the uk i don't know what it's like over here if you're really good i mean you can i do i do think that because i actually know the argument you're making and i do agree with it for the most part and it is kind of irritating when really famous people are like you can say anything and it was like you can and then you're going to complaints and they're gonna decide not to make five more edgy specials because of you like you know what i mean it's if anything it's the opposite but then there

is the other thing of like when it's an audience of people yes if there are audience of people that are like hey we're here to get mad and like college kids it's like the we're here to get mad kind of audience there is one thing but if it's uh your average audience i feel like if you kill if you're saying wild stuff yeah you're not gonna you're gonna be on that other circuit right but i feel like there is comedy clubs maybe that's more here comedy clubs are i feel like for the most part the the bookers aren't pussies well see maybe that's true here and there are comedy club bookers that aren't pussies in Well, see, maybe that's true here. And there are comedy club bookers that aren't pussies in the UK.

But we are starting to see massively, a lot of our friends like Host and MC are the biggest clubs in the UK. They're getting faded out. What's happening is, after every show now, an audience member is coming up to the guy who runs the club going,

I don't want to see that guy ever again. He offended me. Yeah. And you're starting to see more of that. And 20 years ago, if you tried that in the comedy club, they yeah and you're starting to see more of that and 20 years ago if you can you tried that in the comedy club they tell you to get fucked yeah that's not what happens yeah yeah yeah as well but that's some of them still do that yeah so when i'm even toronto which is like the most of this stuff the guy that he like prides himself on you know people give him

complaints and he goes i put him in the filing bin aka the garbage right right yeah yeah yeah yeah but but here's like here's the interesting thing like i was gigging six nights a week before the pandemic started and we we noticed the the way that things were changing in london things were changed with the comedy circuit the industry and i remember going around and asking promoters of these big clubs these big established clubs in central london which have been going 15 20 25 30 years and going are people complaining now and to a person they all went yes no yeah we get far more complaints we get far no question yeah and and i know people who run businesses people take that more seriously now that's not their issue right everyone's afraid

so so the question for me is i hear your argument too, which is be better. I get it. That's a great argument, and I agree with it entirely. But also, if you're a newer comic, you are at the mercy. In the UK, there's one comedy scene. Well, both things can kind of simultaneously be true. There's one comedy scene. If you get blacklisted somewhere somewhere you're done in the entire

fucking country yeah you ain't probably the entire continent right right so so so but so people are self-censoring a lot to not go over that line so we're not even knowing we don't even know what the jokes aren't are that aren't getting said yeah that's the issue right no i mean if they're newer comics probably not much lost probably no that's why i'm like we were all there once yeah exactly right but there's always the um there's always like the macro and the micro because there's like the macro of like yeah you know there's like something that's happening that's bad or what you know what i mean like you could have a workplace that's this and then there's the micro of like what can you personally do about it you know what i mean

like and all you can do all you can do is create your own shit and be better. That's all you can. So it's like, yeah, you can... Which at least that exists. You know, I say like, probably even 10 years ago, in either your scenario

or any scene, where if they just go no, then you go, that's it. Yeah. Like if the gatekeeper said no, then you go, that's it for you. That's the great thing about this moment.

Make your own shit. Yeah. But there's a flip side to that, which is the TripAdvisor, which is Google reviews, which means club owners are more scared of their audience. They're more fearful because a bad review has so much more power than a five-star one. What if I was to say the opposite, where I go, would you not personally,

and, you know, there's obviously things that are fairly split in the world. If you went to a comedy club and everyone was like, great, no offense, like blah, blah, blah, I bet you there's a lot of people that saw reviews being like, the one guy was very rude, they'd be like, we're going there. You know what I mean?

This comic should be cancelled. Everyone would be like, oh, okay, it's the funny comedy club. And there is, you're starting to see... Guy said N-word 20 times. Honey, get the keys!

Get the keys! Yeah, doing a tour of Alabama. But you're starting to, not the N-word 20 times, but you are starting to see more and more comedians push back against it because you're realizing that the art form is becoming unsustainable. If you're operating in very tight parameters, unless you're a certain type of comic who like your seinfelds who do like pure observation which is great and you know all power to you if you do that but

everybody else who wants to test the margins who wants to do something interesting you can't do that because the overton window is just narrowing week upon week month upon month day upon day what do you think's worse like the way it is in comedy the universities or tech or like it's all kind of just the same thing or do you think what's what do you think's like the worst place the worst culprit the worst as in the culprit i i think social media has got a lot to answer for it's given so many dickheads a chance to have an opinion i realize that people are right here but i think it's made people they they have a sense of entitlement now. They think not only can I say my voice,

but my voice deserves to be heard. Even when I have got, it doesn't have any value. Yeah, they're just complaining. Yeah, they're just complaining. But it's squeaky wheel gets the grease, I guess. You know, if you're a business, sometimes you're like,

it's just the path of least resistance to concede. But it's becoming a little bit not the path of least resistance. Like you'll watch anytime someone just're like, it's just the path of least resistance to concede and be like, okay. But it's becoming a little bit not the path of least resistance. Like, you'll watch anytime someone just goes like hard cancel stance on someone, there is pushback for it. It's not free anymore.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It used to be completely free for people to be like, oh, that guy said whatever. Who cares if he's guilty or innocent? We detach ourselves from them. These things kind of become news stories right now

where it just ain't free anymore. But that's how you end it, man. That's what I've always said. That's why we have a lot of people on the show who are in that position where people are trying to cancel them because the way you end cancel culture is you make it not work.

That's how you end it, right? You make it so that the moment you try and cancel someone, they fucking explode. You know what, though? People don't learn that. You could teach that lesson like it's like touching a hot stove but if it's someone who's a canceler they don't they go like no just keep you're right because that's not what they're they're not in it for the cancel they're in it for what they get from the cancel yeah like they'll be like i'll

just keep on that's just a proof that the system needs like moreing. The fact that I'm unable to cancel with my two years of gender studies courses. I've got to just keep on. This is proof that patriarchy is real. They just, you know. And it's also, have you ever noticed, right? Especially with comedians, but also with other figures in the public eye. The more progressive, ultra liberal, cancel culture they are,

the more likely it is they're a fucking pervert and they've done horrendous things in their personal life. Is that true here as well? I feel like I, I don't know if it is

or isn't true, but it's definitely a news story when it happens, but like I'm sure there is kind of, like you know, if you think of like the classic, like fine perverts on both sides i think that every every i think every

culture has bad people but i think that the one thing that what you're right about is that people are like emboldened by the thing right where it's like imagine everyone's kind of like yo this like these fucking men are this like if you're the type of guy that wants to put a pill in your drink, you're a little hot right now. Whereas if everyone's like, dude, thank you so much for your support of women. This guy's a hero. You're like, yo, I could probably do whatever I want. So it's maybe that they, you know what I mean? I think there's a couple of things.

We've talked about before, but in Canada, the number one social justice-y comic was a trans man and then ended up getting cancelled for sexually assaulting women. Right. Well, this is the thing. Stealing our jobs. We joked. It really was a white guy. I think there's a compensatory thing with it as well, which is the people who are doing that shit, they want to cover for that by being outwardly virtuous. There's a lot of like, oh, I'm a nice guy.

I'm a male feminist. That's how we've seen a lot of that in our world. Do you think that... So this is one thing that I feel like I always go back and forth on too, because you wrote the book about how the West is so sick, essentially, right? and then it's kind of like well it's great and sick yeah but isn't it kind of funny that no i meant sick like oh oh sick well it's sick and it's sick right yeah yeah no but there but then also like all of the stuff that's crappy it's all here too you know what i mean yeah so how do you what do you like reconcile that because you know what i mean that i feel like there's so many yeah like even like farthest

conservative people there's like america's so great and it's like yeah it's like all the stuff you hate is like that you would probably seems like you'd like it better in china where it's like uh you know this is how you live your life and traditional values it's a lot of these people you think you'd actually be probably prefer russia like that would be more up your alley of like culturally so i'm like what how do you feel about that whereas isn't there kind of a lot of the stuff that is bad is also disease from the west being you know this is kind of my point uh actually do you know where political correctness comes from um bill maher no tell me where. From the Soviet Union, and then it was used in China.

I've told that. And the reason is, in the Soviet Union, political correctness was, if you said something that was factually true, but inconvenient to the party line, to the dogma of the party. That's why it's political. Right. They would say, it is factually correct, but politically incorrect. And it meant it was true but inconvenient right so my point about in that i make in the book and immigrants love letter to the west is that we're adopting foreign ways of doing things that are not the way that western society should operate you see what i'm saying yeah so all of the shit it's not

natural to the western idea okay well they Well, they have like the struggle sessions. Right. We're doing the Maoist struggle sessions, all of that. In late Soviet Union, my grandfather, he was like a physicist. He worked in an institute. They would have these letters go around where they have to say, I, comrade whatever, condemn this thing that's happening or this person that said the wrong thing.

Right. We're doing all of that shit in the West and we're bringing it over from a foreign culture that doesn't belong here this way of doing things do you understand what i'm saying right so it's not like we in the west have these crappy things and that we should it's we are importing you're saying all the bad things are from there but we're not we're not uh like doing it on we're not importing it on purpose so how does it kind of get over here well i guess that's a big debate i mean yuri bezman i don't know if you guys are for women just importing women do you are you familiar with yuri bezman off no so he was a kgb defector there's a couple

of he's the guy who has the video about how they like infiltrate the right demoralization oh i remember watching that yeah yeah yeah so the point basically is and he predicted it right well he was saying this he was saying this is what we were doing we were attempting to undermine american and western culture by introducing our ideas and supporting people within western society who are doing the shit like turning america communist or whatever yeah i mean look when you say that people are you you're some weirdo and that's not what i'm saying we're not america's openly does that other places right right right but the point is we are adopting things from foreign cultures and of course Russia and China we know this they are doing everything they can with their bot farms

and the troll farms to shape our society in that direction this is why you can't criticize China but the moment you do that the first thing they say is you're racist against China because they're using the shit that we are now obsessed with all this identity bollocks right to to undermine our ability to actually say well you know you're putting people in camps over here no no that's racist right so i'm not saying we are in a position where like the west is got these good things and bad things i'm saying a lot of the bad things are not Western. Yeah. Right? They're not Western, and we should be careful about what ideas we allow to enter our philosophical space.

How do you stop that? Right, well, well... Talking about it. Talking about it, right? The beauty of it is even if you challenge it, they go, ah, you're one of them. No, but things are harder to pull off. Well, that's what happened with me, right?

I turned down that contract. I'm from a Jewish background. Oh, all right, Nazi, straight away. Yeah, I mean, I had the exact contract I'm from a Jewish background oh alright Nazi straight away yeah I mean I had the exact same thing yeah Jewish Nazi I got Jewish Nazi in Toronto too

no but he makes a good point because when it is like anything is harder to do once it's been called out first right like you just imagine being a guy

trying to pick up a girl now imagine right before you do that two guys went over to that girl and they're like every time he talks to a girl he tries

to fuck them and then you go over your like hands are tied a bit right so if you kind of say like hey russia's trying to do all this stuff it's harder for them to sort of pull it off a little bit yeah like having it out in the open does make yeah but it's also about inoculating yourself like if you understand where these ideas are coming from you start to question well why are we pursuing you know why are we restricting what we say why are we restricting what we're allowed to think i mean

we we're supposed to live in this free society where we're allowed to experiment and make jokes and think about things from different points of view. But increasingly, that's gone. And now it's like, you better stay in the fucking box, right? And it's not just in comedy. It's in all sorts of cultural sphere. You better not have the wrong opinion.

Do you think the government of America a lot of times goes along with their political parties because it helps them at that moment yeah yeah and i think the right would do this if they were in cultural power too i mean everybody would do this yeah and that's why the people who hold the middle people like us have to hold the middle no matter who's in charge we just have to say like there are certain things that we don't ever sacrifice for the on the altar of getting what we want politically which is freedom of speech number one right and the other thing is you know we've lost the ability to talk to each other with with fucking respect man you know like if you disagree with me you're fucking evil oh yeah it's not just like we just disagree yeah no

no you're evil yeah and if you i disagree with you i'm evil like we've lost that and they probably don't have that in you know like china there's none of that nobody's and if I disagree with you I'm evil we've lost that and they probably don't have that in China there's none of that nobody's like if you disagree with me you're evil they all kind of just agree or they put you in a camp or you just disappear I guess in Russia he has a story because he's also from there

I'm not from but my parents are but like yeah my mom when we were in canada doing um like this stuff for the cbc like canadian broadcasting and then they started implementing all these like checklists and stuff like these and my mom's like this is like kind of what it was like when in russia 100 she's like this is like reminds me of what it was like when i lived in russia what were the checklists remember like the all the diversity boxes and you have to check every box and all how stuff? But how did they have that in Russia? They just had it for their shit.

For class. For class. For class. Yeah. Oh. Right. I mean, my mom was Jewish, so you're probably saying, but her passport said she was Jewish in her passport.

And then they would do stuff. They would have jobs and you go, we can only have one Jew. What would they have for the class? They'd say you can only have one. You had to have a certain amount of poor people or something if you were working class you would get advantaged in education and all sorts of other things

they would push you up it's the idea of equality you push up the people who are disenfranchised who are marginalized and then how would they do that your parents have to say how much money they made they would just say what is your background and you would say working class money they made and then... No, no, no. They would just say, are you like, what is your background?

And you would say working class or whatever. And they'd sort of work that out. Wouldn't everyone just say that then? Well, that's what happens. This is why everyone's fucking non-binary now. Because like you can just be non-binary and it's helpful. Right? It's the same thing.

So how did it work? Like, so you'd say like, there's only like, for instance, one Jewish person allowed. So what would you do if it was an accounting firm? Do you know what I mean? It would just be a crap. Every accounting firm sucked equally. Or just a Jewish guy in the corner doing all the fucking work. Can you imagine a world with ethical accounting firms?

No. No. And no one would go to them either. All of a sudden those super high interest rates all of a sudden disappear. But coming back to your point, I'll give you a story that I talk about in the book. So my granddad in the late 80s, he made some comments about a hot button issue in the Soviet Union at the time, which was the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. Everyone keeps fucking invading Afghanistan, right? It was a hot button issue.

They were getting torched. And within a short period of time, he lost his job. He was made unemployable and a bunch of his friends, who, by the way, relevant to modern times, they all agreed with him privately,

but wouldn't say a fucking word in public. They all ostracized him. And what did he say? He said we were wrong to invade Afghanistan. Okay, yeah. It's like my grandfather, literally my parents left Russia when they were in their 20 yeah it's like my grandfather literally like my parents left russia like in when they were in their 20s yeah and then my grandfather was like he was like

a pretty hardcore communist like he was into that shit your grandfather my grandfather and he had like you know some big job and all this stuff and just because my head left yeah russia then they were like you did a bad job raising a communist and he got kicked out and he lost everything yeah that's how it worked man yeah yeah but this is a real job raising a communist. And he got kicked out and he lost everything. Yeah, that's how it worked, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is a real purity show. Right, but it's also collective punishment. So if your kids turn out bad, they go, you didn't do it right.

But it's also collective punishment, right? Yeah, exactly. And again, that's the thing that, and so with example, my granddad, for example, right? Unemployable, lost his job, forced out of the country eventually, and his friends lost. Is that that different? For this one thing. For saying something, for an opinion. For an opinion. Not even a statement. And did he say it like he said it in private and someone ratted him out how is that all that different to what

the shit that we do now sometimes when someone says the wrong thing and suddenly they someone rats on them or this happened he said this and we fucking you're out of the industry yeah you're a bitcoin guy now this is my welcome to podcasting yeah welcome to podcasting in bitcoin yeah he had the his like that's what danny has a joke about this but yeah it's you had the same thing my grandma like literally you know i mean they probably russian people have a million of these stories but she had some neighbor who was you you know, one day was like, hey, do you know where my husband is? And people were like, no, we haven't seen your husband. And then it turned out he told some guy a joke in the lobby of the building about, you know, some government.

And they're just breaking rocks in Siberia for 10 years. So what happens is, so I talk about this in the book. So my grandmother was born in a g gulag in a in a soviet labor camp and she was born there because both her parents had been sent there separately and what happened to her mother right separately for two different things yeah well they were they were not married at the time they like met there oh yeah they met in the camp right so getting pussy in the gulag and the reason that she was there is her husband was taken away, didn't know what happened, right? So she left her newborn baby with a neighbor,

went to find out what happened to him, and oh, you're his wife. Guilty. Off you go to the camp. Never saw her husband again, and she met this new guy there, and that's how my grandmother was born. Yeah, she did.

You're taking this very seriously. It's like, you're family in the camp. I thought the moral of the story is that my fucking men in my family give a snizz I thought that's what you were saying

yeah yeah exactly no matter where you are you can still get pussy but you know this is what happens all the time with communism like in Venezuela

Chavez came to power in 99 slowly but surely you just saw for instance journalists getting attacked and then it it was happening

in private, and, you know, like the odd word, like, don't say this, don't say that. What were kind of the things you can't say? So you can't criticize the government, you can't make jokes about the government. All government. I mean, that's what it always starts with, don't, yeah.

Because that's how you, you know, like, derail a government, is you publicly criticize them, and everybody gets on board, right? And mockery is a very powerful tool to do that. You know, so, like, you so like the comedians started to leave and then pretty soon it was the journalists. And you know the rules.

You know what's going to happen if you transgress. And it's made obvious because the people, you see it happen to the people around you, so you're not going to do it. Of course. You're just not going to do it. And what we do here is kind of different but it's really interesting because you've seen what happens to people who

transgress yeah you know what's gonna happen and also as well you know that if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person in the wrong way and it can be misconstrued and let's be fair now context no longer matters yeah then the same shit can happen and they turn everybody into a spy and they also are like if you are sitting around and like this and then you hear someone say something and you don't rat them out then you're guilty of saying it so then you literally force everybody to distrust everybody and this is and the hint to this is in the language. What do they say when somebody is progressive like them? You're an ally.

Yeah. No, it's war terms. Yeah, it's war terms. And if someone disagrees with you, it's no longer that they disagree with you. You're the opposite of an ally. What's the opposite of an ally? Enemy. Enemy.

So it's cool for me to destroy you because you're my enemy. Right. It's been completely weaponized. Yeah. Just going to take a quick second here to tell you about a sponsor that we recommend, and that is BetterHelp. Now, for a lot of times with guys, you have stuff, life will throw you curveballs. It gets tough out there.

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and that's 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash boyscast. That's 10% of your first month of online therapy at BetterHelp.com slash BoyzCast. And this is the thing that bothers me about it the most. It's like if you want to be an asshole, be an asshole, but don't claim to be kind while you're doing it. It's like hashtag be kind, go kill yourself. Like that doesn't work. Yeah. Right?

If you want to go and mob people into suicide, by all means, but don't fucking claim you're progressive while you're doing it. Don't claim you're a good person. You're not a fucking good person. Yeah, there's so much stuff like that where you're just like, so your whole thing that if you add up all that you've done for last year is like you've gotten five people fired. You're unhappy. You kind of have a big fight with your family.

You've actually made things worse because you just got people hyped up on the other side so it's like all you've done is create a bunch of misery right and we have a you know we've known someone like that with joke wise it was all he was kind of that guy in my body i remember once said to him he was just like uh dude i like spent the last two years making people laugh and happy and you've spent the last two years making people miserable so who's yeah and you're and you think that you're the fucking good guy here? Yeah. And that's how they see it. And then they use another

phrase which just annoys me so much is on the wrong side of history. How the fuck do you know? Well, the winners decide that. Nobody's ever thought they were on the wrong side of history. There's not one person who's ever been like you know what? We're on the wrong side of history but let's do this anyways. Even Hitler was like, be on the wrong side of history. There's not one person who's ever been like, you know what? We're on the wrong side of history,

but let's do this anyways. Yeah, even Hitler was like, we're on the right side of history, yeah? Of course, everybody. Nobody's ever thought that, ever. I mean, it just depends on who writes the fucking book. For sure, but I'm saying they always go, oh, we're on the right side of history.

But nobody thinks they're on the wrong side of history. Everybody assumes they're... But see, Danny, this is exactly the problem with ideology, man, is it gives you license to go and do terrible shit. Yeah, of course. Just because you're on the right side of history. So you to go and do terrible shit yeah just because you're on the right side of history you know so you can go and do whatever you want you know and that's that's

my issue with all of it ideology right and left it's like if you if you think you're entitled to do terrible things to other people because you you you've got the right opinions fuck you i mean the communist government in china is probably telling these uyghurs are in these camps you go you're really on the wrong side of history. You're not even going to be in the books. You better shape up here. You don't want to be on the wrong side of history

with your blue jumpers in these camps. But it's also as well, like, everybody's now part of a team. So everybody is terrified because our hormones literally program us

to want to be part of a team. So nobody wants to get alienated by their team. No one wants to get ostracized. No, it hurts. Yeah, because it hurts. It's painful. It's not nice.

But what happens? We then get pushed into a type of behavior because the rest of the team is doing it. I would say this, though, in terms of like our journey, certainly it's like I'm a big fan of that fight club. It's only once you've lost everything that you're free to do anything. Like when we got kicked out of the comedy industry the way that we did in the uk that was the best thing that ever happened to us yeah i would definitely i do sometimes think because we have friends like in canada for example and they have like what's success there is not really like globally really like you would consider not success here but it kind of locks them into this thing where they kind of you know

they'll never really achieve like a ton because they're kind of locks them into this thing where they kind of, you know, they'll never really achieve like a ton because they're kind of comfortable in this thing. But it's not really great objectively. But in the context of Canada, it is. So they just, you know, and then eventually one day they go, yeah, we don't like you anymore. And it's over. But this is what we did. So when that happened with us, we were just like, we're going to create. That was always my thinking on it.

We're going to say what you want to say. And we're gonna create that was always my thinking on it we're gonna say what you want to say now and we're gonna create a siege mentality like like this is us we've been kicked out we got to make our own shit and it's just down to us no one's gonna help us no one's gonna help you just got to make it you just got to create something that other people are gonna enjoy dude there's so many people when you like if you you know in their books and obviously some of this romanticized but like so many popular thinkers and speakers or comedians or whatever they kind of they look back and they go and there was that was the time when i was like you know what i'm just gonna say everything i actually think yeah and then that's when they start like that's what yeah you know what i mean

yeah but see i was if you're not saying what you think if you're just saying the acceptable things you go everyone just like yeah okay yeah i know that's the thing i've also been like everyone else is saying that too do you know the thing that was the hardest for me was like i was such a naive idiot when i turned down that contract because i thought i'm like i'm i'm i'm taking one for team comedy here like we we comedians comedians were at this monolith doing this right yeah i was like i thought most comedians would like be on my side. That's funny. You were up for it. Well, they might have been

two years earlier. Yeah, they might have been. Can you believe they're telling us we can't make fun of religion here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it just turned out that for the majority of them, it was the exact opposite.

And that was shocking to me. But do you think it was just the self-preservation? Yeah, their self-preservation. They're like, I don't want to be the person sticking their neck out. Maybe, like you said, in private, they were like, thanks. Well, actually, Francis tells a very good story about a comic who passed away recently.

Yeah, so there was a comedian. Belt on the round the neck? No, he passed away. This man has no fucking values. No, no, man. He doesn't. Fucking cancel it. We don't know him. Grandma in the Kool-Aid.

Triggered. You getting this? But yeah, so like he passed away. And I was talking to him when he was receiving treatment. And because he was, I knew he was having a hard time of it. And we used to check in every once in a while. And he used to really like trigonometry. And he said to me,

do you know what, Francis, I could never be as brave as you. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he went, because I really love Douglas Murray, but when people come round to my house, I hide those books. And I can never be, and I would never ever say that I agree

with some of these opinions, because I know would happen you know I would be ostracized you know I do that with my lean I'm done I would have you know I would have friends turn against me right chorus you know so he went through treatment he sadly passed away and I saw and he was he was a lovely person he really was he was a really nice person. And when people were writing about him, they kept using the word nice. Now, what does that actually mean?

Compliant? Exactly. And it meant that he didn't challenge him. He didn't say, I disagree. He didn't go his own way. He didn't stand up for himself. And that's what, in many ways, that they liked about him

yeah and that's how it is man because for a lot of people they're too scared they're just too scared to stand up because they don't want to face the costs and the consequences of actually being honest about what they think and feel and that's it it's it it's it's it's really sad and you see these people going oh he was such a nice person. And I just thought, fuck you. You don't believe that. You just liked him because he just went along with whatever you. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. That's all it is. Yeah. I mean, it's difficult to go against the grain. It is. We've had a isn't it crazy the extent to which comedians die to like, I don't know if you've had that.

But me and Danny know like seven comedians that have committed suicide probably really well this is what we're talking about before we started like i don't do stand-up anymore man because i just love my life now and when i was doing stand-up i fucking didn't yeah a lot of people don't i didn't love my life then i love it now you know it's just stand-up is a hard lifestyle oh it's a hard lifestyle especially once you start having kids and you know you've got a family etc so that makes sense to me you know it's and it's just not it's hard physically like you eat mentally you never turn off the it's like all of the parts are hard i think yeah people yeah yeah yeah and then when you go online

it's not like you could do before like in thes, where you've done a gig or whatever else. And you can just switch off and you go back home and you watch a video, you do whatever you do. Never ends. Yeah, it never ends. And you just pick up your phone and you're like, how the fuck did he get that? Do you know what I mean? And that's constantly. That's so many things right now, man.

It's like, dude, yeah, that would be. It really is. I'd like to say, yeah, just shut it off. But it's like dude yeah that'd be it really is you it's i'd like to say yeah just shut it off but it's impossible it's just no because when you're saying the guy that you know he's very nice but it's like some people aren't built like that you know i know strong people this shit breaks them you're just like man yeah really is you you gotta figure out a way to fucking tape yourself off from this shit yeah but i think comics have an advantage because we we've trained ourselves not to take ourselves seriously. So when people come after me, I just laugh at them now.

You know what I mean? That does help a bit, yeah. Whereas if you're, like, this is one of the reasons. You've thought of all the insults people could say to you. Right. This is one of the reasons I think Jordan Peterson, like, keeps going through these periods where he, like, has a difficult time of it. Because he's someone who's very earnest. He's trying to make the world a better place.

Whereas, I mean, we sort of feel that way as well. But on the other hand, I'm just like, well, this guy's a dickhead. Jordan Peterson doesn't have that answer in his locker. He can't say, oh, this guy's just a dickhead because he's trying to help everyone. You know what I mean? Jordan Peterson, he can't quote tweet someone

with the words, I banged your mum. Do you know what I mean? Like that classic staple. But that's like the deflection tactics of the comedy are actually very good for dealing with people coming after you because you're just like that is like originally and it's not obviously not just comedians a million people are good at this that i know that aren't in the do specifically do comedy but you go one of the reasons it is there is like a yeah a way to you know be able to make your brain okay with what's happening right yeah oh yeah i mean i'm sure you've experienced a barrage of negative stuff comments on twitter during one of your things you're like

yeah even though you're prepared for it still kind of sucks yeah it does it does suck and the first time is fucking hard but it does it's also uh i feel like the more one thing that makes it easier is when you become more in tune with the levels of it you know what i mean like imagine like when you're just like okay i know that this is maybe a bit more than i'm getting than usual but it's when you when you've never experienced this it could be like 30 people are mad at you and i've had a lot of people call me and be like hey you get in trouble a lot like i'm like you know what i mean i'm like the go-to guy for a lot of old friends and stuff. But there'll be, you know, it's 30 people.

They're like, you know, my life's over. Like I'm deleting my Twitter. I'm deleting my Instagram. Because it's like, but if you go, no, what you did, 30 is actually nothing. Like this is, but once you kind of know what the waves look like, you can surf them a little better. Well, what happened with me is I got the big wave.

Like I got the tsunami wave on the first fucking go. So I had it like out. You know, for Francis, it was a slower process. Slow and sensual. That's how I like my cancellations. The hatred's just dripping in. He had the loop there. No loop for me.

But that's kind of how it was. And then once you go through that, you are genuinely free. It's a beautiful thing, man. Especially once you've got something like this where you're doing your own thing and you don't really give a shit what anyone thinks that's beautiful man that's real freedom you know and we interviewed uh one of our guests uh she's a youtuber she's from new york actually called ariel scarchella and um she's she's a gay woman and she called like when she came out on the right i mean she's a gay woman, and she called, like, when she came out on the right, I mean, she's a conservative, I think she would describe herself as,

as her second coming out. And in a way, like, I'm not on the right, neither is Constantine, but just going, like, I disagree with this bullshit, it's like a coming out moment because people are like, what the fuck? She probably lost most of her friends. Yeah. Like, if you're, like, you know, LGBT or whatever, and you're coming out as, you probably lose a ton of her friends. Yeah. Like if you're like, you know, LGBT or whatever, and you're coming out as, you probably lose

a ton of your friends. But it was sort of probably like, you know, having a, you know, being in a place where you can't have a certain book and you're just like, yo, check this out. Like certain people were like that. Like, yo, did you hear about this guy? Or like there was people that comics that were doing, you know, our little crew of people that some people would do like, you know, wild jokes and we're like, oh shoot, we're going to do that?

Okay, I think you almost need a little bit of a... It's impossible to do anything alone. You always need a little tiny bit of a community. Yeah, yeah. And that's the great thing about the internet, man, is we wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for the internet. Totally, yeah. So while all this shit is going on and it's bad,

we've also got to be present to the fact that there's a lot of great stuff going on as well. And there's never been more opportunity at the same time what do you think of all the countries like i know because you obviously know a lot about russia is is what's worse in terms of you know you can't say anything or you know they'll disappear you and all that stuff like is russia that bad now or is china worse or as you mentioned venezuela like what are the worst places for that kind of stuff right now China's worse than Russia but give you an example of what's happening

in Russia now so I have a lot of family in Russia obviously and when Russia invaded Ukraine a few months ago your family's living there currently yeah I have family

in Russia I have family in Ukraine my buddy's girlfriend her parents currently live there it's kind of weird it's like a war I guess yeah well exactly

so in Russia when the war first started some people were protesting against this so they'd go out and like 10. Yeah, well, exactly. So in Russia, when the war first started, some people were protesting against it. So they'd go out and like 10, 15, 20, 100 people, whatever. Bad idea. They'd all get arrested straight away. So then they went in single-person pickets. So that means you go on your own.

You have like a sign, and you stand there, and you protest. Get arrested. So then people started taking… What do they call it, sorry? Like a one-man picket. Just a single-person protest. Single-person protest. Oh, right.

Inside of a group. Because then you're not protesting as a group, which is punishable by more. Different offense. Oh, so they know that... I mean, it feels like some of them, the police and stuff, would just be like, yeah, there was four people. They'd just lie anyway, maybe. Well, right.

And so what happens then is you get people going out on their own with a sign. They'd get arrested. what happens then is you get people going out on their own with a sign they'd get arrested and then people would start making fun of that by going out and standing with no sign just their hands and they'd get arrested that's crazy oh god and this is standing like three months ago this is now yeah and this is people that were saying we don't want this war to happen yeah they're saying the the only thing that said that it is illegal in Russia. If you call it a war, you can go to prison for 10 years. What are you supposed to call it?

It's a special operation. Special operation. Just taking something back that was already ours kind of thing. Right. Well, it's a special military operation. You're not allowed to call it a war. You're literally not allowed to use a word.

So your parents right now, if they said, you know, if they said, oh, we're at war, what are the consequences? You'd get arrested and you may go to prison depending on... Like if posted that online you're fucking toast oh 100 there's been

people who tweeted something or posted it on some kind of social media deleted it seconds later but a bot has picked it up and they've been arrested for that and then how much time do you do i don't know i have there's a lot of different things going on right now so it's a lot of these cases they've just got arrested and they haven't been sentenced yet so we don't know but there's a lot of different things going on right now. So it's a lot of these cases, they've just got arrested and they haven't been sentenced yet. So we don't know, but there's a few people being sentenced to like 10 years in prison. That's like here. If you post the wrong thing about COVID.

Exactly the same. Yeah, man. So, so we shouldn't like, you know, of course I'm, I'm talking about the direction of travel in the book.

We should, we should understand we're not nearly as bad as some other places. All'm saying is let's not fucking go in that direction let's remember what we do here in the west which is we actually believe in freedom of speech and stuff like that yeah where do you think's the best country do you think it's still america or did you never think that i don't know do you know that america is such a big place with so many different states like you know if you went to California, you'd probably, well, we're going to go there soon. You'd probably think this place is fucking nuts.

But if you go to Florida, you go, oh, this seems kind of normal. You know what I mean? Especially if you take people from the places and you move them around, they go, this is crazy. A lot of influencers. The place that's the worst is Twitter, right? It's not in any real place.

It's the worst country of the world. Turns out the worst place on Earth is Earth. Yeah. So I was going to say, like, but New York, you're fucking crazy here. Like, my girlfriend is from New York. And she works for a very progressive organization in New York, right? And one of her friends, right, he doesn't eat inside because of COVID. Still.

Oh, I believe that. Wild, dude. He doesn't eat inside. And then we were talking, and she was, like, saying, oh, you know, she was talking with him, and she was getting advice from him. I'm like, what are you taking advice from this guy?

He doesn't eat inside. He's lost his mind, yeah. People have genuinely had their minds fucking broken. They must have that in London, though. There's people who just don't. Yeah, there are, but not like here. So you're saying people broke their brains about COVID more here. Oh, 100%. Do you guys have your own

Fauci? Is there like an English Fauci? Yeah, but he's not as despised on certain sections. Because the Canadian one, she kind of is. They don't like her. Yeah, but you guys went way further in Canada. Oh, went way further in canada like what the fuck is going on there yeah they're uh it was like popular people are put i mean it's just picture the whole fucking country's portland you know i don't know but like again it's the same as most places like the rest of the country doesn't agree with that the rest of the country like works on a fucking oil rig they don't think this shit right

they hate it. But you know, I find it so funny. Trudeau is the wokest dude on earth who every 10 minutes gets caught for blackmail. He's like your classic in a movie, the corporate guy

that's pretending. He got a really bad haircut recently and people were fucking making fun of him. He looked like Lloyd Christmas. I'm dumb and dumber. So that was with the COVID stuff. That was way more like it was aggressive.

You find it more aggressive in here than it was. We came close in the UK. Like it was getting a bit crazy as well. Like the polling numbers were incredible, man. People are like 20% of people wanted nightclubs to be shut down forever, irrespective of COVID. Just fucking shut them down. Oh my God.

We can't have these. Right. And where most- It's like grumpy people. Yes. The mother that wants her kids to be wearing like elbow pads to walk to the park is like, now it gets to have a say in what other people get to do.

Well, you go at least, every time I go to a park, I see this like kids, he looks like he people get to do. Well, you go early. Every time I go to a park, I see this, like, kids. He looks like he's about to go and, like, play in the NFL. Like, they've got helmet, elbow pads, the whole fucking lot. Because that's how we, like, mollycoddle them so much, you know? And with masks, like, there were some people, I think 40 or 50% of people at one point

thought we should just wear masks forever. It doesn't matter if there's masks. I've heard people still say that. I mean, you guys are going to California. They might be, they just issued a warning saying that they might be bringing back mandatory masks.

Well, and the thing is, it's like, it doesn't make any sense. I'm like Braveheart on that. That's the one thing that I'm just like, I'd rather not wear it and get in fights with people. I hate it so much. It hurts your ears.

Yeah, well, and that's the thing. We flew to Armenia via Frankfurt in Germany, right? So we flew with lift hands. I didn't realize what was happening. So we get to the airport. We stand in a massive queue, like face-to-face with like thousands of people, a lot of whom are coming on our plane. No masks, right?

And you get on the plane. Where's the mask? You get off the plane in Frankfurt. You've got a layover, two-hour layoff with the same people. Yeah. No mask. You get on the plane. Where's the mask? That's right in Canada. It doesn't make any sense. frankfurt you've got a layover two hour layoff with the same people yeah no mask yeah yeah you get on the plane there's a mask that's what i had in canada it doesn't make any sense you're with

the same people no i had the exact same thing in canada dude it was like as soon as you get on the plane with the exact same you're no one has a mask on then you get into the airport and you put your masks on yeah it's like pretty and on the way back it was even worse because i was sitting in a little cafe in the airport and the the crew for my flight came and sat down next to me like right next to me they were sitting all together close joking no masks yeah the moment they get on the plane they all wear a mask and make everyone else wear one too it's like what is some kind of just some stupid arbitrary rule right just yeah yeah and i think most people see through it, though. I was talking to this very... Last time I was in New York, I went for coffee.

I started talking to this very older, liberal gay guy, and he was telling me, like, he was like, Oh, honey, you know, I was... Someone's cold. Oh, old gays don't fuck with your shit. He was like, you know, I was on board with all of this. I was on board with all of this. All of it, you know.

I was like, mask, jab, whatever. And he goes, and then one day I went to a restaurant and I walked in and I had my mask on. And they said to me, right, okay, you can sit down. And so I sat down, took my mask off. And then the server came. He went, no, no, no, you've got to wear your mask. Wear your mask whilst you order. So I ordered.

And then he went, now you can take your mask off. Yeah, i remember we went to a place during covet and we were it was like dead of winter we were sitting outside and the guy would not take our order until we all put masks on we were outside yeah you just you just go at this point it's taking the fucking piss because it makes no sense you were literally taking the piss out of me that's when i started to lose it why do you think people went that crazy about it here fear i there is a part of it that's fear for a lot of people like there is people that i know that they're just safe about

anything like it's the same person if you said like hey someone uh someone here is sick like you know it's probably but there is a lot of it got politicized. So then just like anything, it's like making people's teams on board with that is a good way to make everyone else have... It's almost like... You know they're always talking about normalizing stuff? It's like you take these wacky outliers

and they want to normalize it. And it's like, well, why would you normalize? So you essentially took this super safe person and then let's normalize that by making it like one of the statements on our team that's half the country and then unless you want to get kicked out that's one of your new fucking platforms you think it's kind of like at a restaurant we're like we have a you know the servers like we have a good time we have smiles on our face and you're like the new one is like we are very worried about covid and they go i guess i'm worried about covid so i think that's kind of what it was i just don't want to go against it and girls i think it

was girls too yeah this is mostly do you think that um that they're like you know a lot of people say it's like left and right stuff but there's also you know a million other things like authoritarian non-authoritarian masculine feminine like do you find that uh like television or the industry and all that stuff is do you think that there is uh like things have gotten a lot more feminine or do you think it's not really do you not see it that way it's trying to get us to piss off the feminists yeah should we do it i don't think i don't think feminists aren't that feminine if you want to i tell you which is like so i was a teacher for however long and um you're a teacher yeah education is becoming more feminine way more

feminine and you know like uh so it's so there was one study done that for instance we treat boys a lot worse than we treat girls in school and there's many studies done and this has been verified however however many studies a boy who commits the same misdemeanor or transgression in the classroom as a girl will be way more punished than a girl. In many cases, a girl will be let off. The boy... That seems like all... Yeah, probably all...

Everything's like that, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Crimes as well. Yeah, and you know, and what has actually happened is it's the bigotry of low expectations. I went to... So part of teachers, being a teacher,

is you go to teacher training. And I had one person who sat me down and was explaining to me why I shouldn't expect boys to be able to write as much as girls in an English lesson. And that was explained to me. And they were like, oh, they just can't concentrate for longer. And, you know, boys are more active. They're more fidgety.

And it's like, no, what you're doing is you are destroying their chances of becoming and loving literature because you're saying that they're less capable. Yeah. This is the oldest thing in the book. Yeah. And, you know, as a kid, if someone just says, oh, I expect less from you, the vast majority of kids are going to go, what, I get the fuck about? Great. Yeah, for sure. And that is right the way through the education system.

But Ryan, why do you ask about the feminization? You feel like it's something that's important and it's happening? Well, I think it's sort of when you look at the – it's funny to me that when you talk about the comedy thing, like you say that you're sort of like a uh centrist type of guy that will get you know people would consider you this other thing i also feel like that's the same thing where i'd be like dude i was like this uh you know kind of musician artist guy with piercings tattoo like i would you know i mean but in a lot of ways i guess my way that my brain works and i'm very bloke culture sort of and for better words but like but it's funny where it's like i would have

been considered like look at this toxic you know it got my toxic male energy so i think it's happened in like a lot of different things but i'm kind of uh which is for super masculine dudes just talking about dude shit but i mean well for one it's like that's what our podcast talks about a lot but also my specific thing is that a lot of these things are yeah feminine energy taking over like whether covet or so if you just look at like i mean in a lot of ways you could say like canada kind of operates like a girl country and can't you know so but that's why in canada that kind of operates like a girl country it's like people are safer but they do want that so it's like it's hard to always say what's better like even when you look China, that's very authoritarian and you're like, that's

bad. And you're like, well, not if everyone thinks that. It's kind of weird. It's like, you have to put the what's happening on top of what they are, what their like natural culture is. Right. Yeah. A tiny portion of them probably don't want it.

Well, it's like, you know, if you think of, yeah, like, like just as a fact, like black culture is kind of more masculine than white culture. Like, that's a pretty thing. I think most people could agree with. So when then you say like, like hey they're operating really feminine here it's like well depends on what you're layering that on top of right right and and what what your own view of that whole thing is look the thing is i'm wary i i i love pissing off feminists but i'm now that we've done so many interviews with various feminists it's like i don't want

to insult them all because some of them are actually pretty cool and they're doing the right thing. Well, I don't necessarily think it's feminist because I think that, yeah, that's why I wasn't saying that. Like, I think that, to be honest, like what we've talked about a lot, like culture war stuff, but there is just underneath that, like male-female dynamics, like not in the realm of, you know, any sort of politics. You know what I mean yeah i have a very selfish view of that whole thing which is i think i think you're right society is moving in it's it's moving in a more feminine direction and men are encouraged to be more feminine now which is fucking great if you don't go along with it as a man it's a pretty good point yeah right yeah that's a great point. Yeah.

Because you're just like, yo, if... Because at the end of the day, the women don't want that. I mean, yeah. Women are not like, I want my guy to be way more feminine. No, no. So if you stick to what you know is healthy masculinity, you're going to... I'm happily married and have been for 20 years, but you're going to... 20 years? Yeah.

You're going gonna clean up that's my take on it just be be a man and be comfortable don't be too far into it and there's a more natural

contrarian generally not being far too far into anything is pretty nice but that's the whole fucking point isn't it don't be too far in one side or the other

but also don't allow people to sort of tell you that being a man is toxic because it's fucking not right yeah it's just and that's what i'm happy with that like i'm gonna be a man the way that my parents brought me up and i'm happy with that my wife's happy with that that's how i'm gonna bring up my son that's it and he's gonna clean up too clean up someone's watching this right now being like just seething he's two months old i'm projecting into the future but you know what i mean that that's the thing because a lot of this cultural shit like you can tell people this but when it comes to their personal preferences that ain't what they

want yeah that ain't what women but i mean i that's why i kind of always related back that because it's like if i look at so many things everyone can say all the stuff that they stand for and then in real life they're all just like yeah i gotta say that because of work like my point so it's everything's kind of um everything's i think moved in like a phony direction yeah which in my opinion is feminine because that's like if a group of girls are together yeah yeah no one would really say what they actually think a lot of the times so it all i don't always comes back to that where i feel like that's all of those things is and i don't even think it's what's better or worse. It just kind of like is, it's like, that is the natural like order of how a bunch of girls

kind of hang out in a natural order of how guys, so it's like a bunch of calm. So a lot of times, yeah, you're just like when a guy, a lot of times it's like, oh, I like this better. It's like, well, you just like kind of like girl dynamics better than guy dynamics. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of evidence as well. Like the women like this woke shit. Yeah. Yeah it well they yeah more than men well they like like

i think it's more about i mean the you if you everything has its positive and negative if you go the positive is that if someone's doing bad they want to help them up yeah yeah with the negative is if someone's going up they want to pull them down right it's you know women like to squish the meat they like to squish the mean. Yeah. And to me, the healthy thing for an individual to do is to try and balance those things up inside of yourself. So I've spent a lot of time observing female family members and learning how do they resolve, like,

because as a guy, you've got two options. Like, you fight or you leave. Like, that's kind of how you start out. But you've got to layer things on top of that. So how do you resolve situations a bit more diplomatically? Like I spend a lot of time observing the way my wife does things and going, how can I integrate some of this into who I am? What's a good example of like what a man could take from femininity? Diplomacy.

Sorting things out by talking about them, like understanding where other people are coming from. Oh, my girlfriend's way less diplomatic. I just watch her go, I don't want to do that. Don't want to do that. It's quite the opposite. Yeah. Yeah, just like the slightest, like,

listen, I understand how you're seeing this, like kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And a bit of empathy, which is not natural to me. Really? No, no, no, no. I'm Russian. Come on.

Right. Don't do it. Don't do empathy. Yeah, I feel like I'm more naturally like that. Yeah, yeah. But that's cool. Whereas I have to sort of shield myself sometimes the way girls do probably. Because I see where it's more like you can't have too many people's energy around you because you suck it in too much and feel bad, you know?

Well, the thing is all skills are situational, right? Some skills, like, for example, being strong-minded not giving a shit it's really useful in some context awful in other contexts where it's not going to help right likewise with the more feminine ways of being very good in some situations

not good in others so you got if you want to be an integrated person you got to put those two things together and find which ways you're good at

and which ones you're bad at find a way to shield against yeah you got to work on your weaknesses too and for me the feminine side was always a weakness so I always wanted to get better at that i think you're it all boils down to social

media too because you're right like in real life before if you were like an empathetic person you're just like i have these seven people to care and it's like that's how many i can handle almost and now it's like oh i have to like allegedly feel empathetic for millions and millions of people and i think it just overloads them and put that's maybe what puts people in like these war modes or whatever because you're just like not built to feel empathetic for millions of people yeah no and it's the problem is also as well we've been encouraged to behave like victims and if you remember like when we were brought when we were kids it was like you know the message was always like you know you get you go again, you stand on your own two feet, you know, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Whereas now, like, one comedian posted up on Facebook, this is quite a big comedian, about how somebody shoved them on a platform in a train station and it ruined their day.

And you go, what the fuck is wrong with you? This isn't for my business, yeah. Yeah, and you just... Tell your fucking, like, your wife this yeah yeah exactly and you just think like if you constantly train yourself to see yourself as a victim then you're going to end up being a victim and more importantly than that you're going to end up being desperately horrifically awfully miserable and here's an interesting thing about your point about femininity and masculinity right being a victim works for women.

It doesn't work for men. It works poorly for men. No one gives a shit, right? It doesn't. I mean, I'd say they probably give a shit more now than they did before, but yeah, still. Yeah, you'll get a few likes on your Facebook or whatever else. It ain't going to get you laid, mate. And to me, I'll be honest with you, that works for me.

I'm happy with that. Men need to go out and do shit. You're not going to get points for being a victim. You're going to get points for going out, building, creating, making things happen, rising in your status, career, whatever. That's how a man gets shit, right? Woman, different approaches, right? So this ideology is not good for men because it's not going to work for you.

The most people that i've seen that it kind of made them depressed and all that stuff is probably men wrecked them the most yeah yeah yeah because no one gives a shit it's the antithesis of our being when we do something when we achieve something we feel great you know your testosterone rises you feel good you feel powerful if you just constantly see yourself as, you know, life is putting it upon you and you have no power and whatever else, then you're done. You see it on Twitter where people go, bipolar, ADHD, or like that.

It's just that way of seeing the world is sick because you see these illnesses or these conditions as essentially a fundamental part of your identity yeah and you're never going to overcome that i've got adhd i call it fucking spaz brain right and like i forget shit and i you know but so what it's not your identity it's not my identity it means i have to have lists wherever i fucking go to like take it off yeah i can't spell spell no I don't have that mate I'm intelligent a couple of guys that can't spell but

so what's the alternative what I just sit at home put it in my Twitter bar and feel sorry for myself and watch my life slowly disintegrate

because I have no structure who's this helping it's not helping anyone it's not helping me it's not helping the people helping the people

trying to raise money on you I guess yeah right on your story this is the difference I think because if you're a woman, people naturally will empathize more and give you compassion and help you along. As a guy, if you're not doing well, most people aren't going to have empathy and compassion. They might try and help you, you know, to try and give you a kick up the ass, but they're not going to, like, hold your hand and stroke your hair or whatever.

Do you know what I mean? mean yeah you have to make it you i always yeah you i feel like with guys you want to give them like you offer them like actual solutions you're like hey i'm not here to hear your story but do you need a thousand dollars like do you want yo can i drive you somewhere like yo do you need a job you're like you know what maybe i know a body like you're like can i functionally help in the real world something but you're like i'm not listening to you go on and on. Sometimes women don't want that.

None of us that's helping. Yeah women just straight up are like I don't want that I just want to just cry about it. I think guys have

trouble with that sometimes. I had to learn that with my wife. I had to learn that. Because you're trying to offer a real solution and they're

like I don't want a real solution. Who wants that yeah yeah oh no no this is you're gonna take an entire evening yeah sit down you're like and shut up yeah it's a it's an eight hour story about how you're like 40 thing broke or whatever you're like i feel like i could buy it right now shut up yeah that's it that's it man so yeah there is a bunch of that okay the one thing i was, before I wrap up, you had an interesting point that I,

because you guys are both funny on Twitter and stuff like that, but Constantine, you said that the temperature-related deaths are 99% from cold and we only focus on the hot ones. Right. Which is just, I feel like I've heard this argument with the heat and everything so much,

and that point's never really crossed my mind, but it's like, that is so interesting. Is that a kind of, I guess there's a lot of moral panic about everything, right? And global warming is like one of those things, right? Yeah, climate change is the big one. So if you look at the policies that we're implementing, we're making in the UK, I don't know if you have this, thousands of elderly people die every year

because they can't afford to heat their homes. And they just die from being cold. They just die from being cold in a developed country. We are one of the richest economies in the world. Tens of thousands of pensioners die every year. See, we have the heat. Right. Here, they die from the heat.

No, that's what I would have thought. Look it up, man. Look it up. I think it's around the world. Which is interesting to me. So think it's around the world. Which is interesting to me. So that's a really big problem. If you think of homeless guys,

you're probably more like they're cold. So that's how it works in the UK. The UK is not that cold a country, by the way. So in the winter, we've now seen, because of the way that the policies are,

like 40% I think of our fuel bills are green levies. It's for green. Because they raise it all up and then these people can't afford it and then it kills them so so we're worried about climate change and climate change at the moment is about things getting hotter primarily that's and i'm not saying climate change isn't real by the way no i know yeah yeah it needs dealing with but my point is whenever you make anything religious which is what we've done with the climate you're going to do bad shit you're going to make mistakes and you're going to focus on the wrong thing i feel like a lot of things people they they just refuse to admit that

there's ever a negative it's like everything every policy you do pulls another lever well it's collateral it's collateral damage but they're just like they go look like i feel like they don't say that but i think in their mind no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Just first order thinking. Like you never, first order thinking is the way to put it. You're never thinking about the consequences of what you do. Yeah, of course. But this is one of the things that I've learned from trigonometry. One of the most important things. Never trust a simple solution

to a complex problem. The moment someone comes, the moment there's a complex problem, whatever it is, climate change, COVID, pick whatever you want and someone goes, oh, we're going to implement

this very easy solution. It's locked down. We're going to print more money. We're going to give people more money. We're going to sort it like that. And someone goes, oh, we're going to implement this very easy solution. It's locked down. We're going to print more money. We're going to get people more money. We're going to sort it like that. You've got to be suspicious because they're not addressing the whole problem. And if someone's presenting that to you, be very, very wary because you don't know what the tradeoffs are going to be. And likely they're going to be incredibly significant and unpredictable as well.

And they're just people doing this stuff. They not like some magical yeah beings or they're just people and then on top of that they're they're they're saying hey there's no trade-offs and also like if you even you know like why wouldn't you want this simple thing that's going to save lives and you're just like well obviously it's because i'm not convinced it will yeah you know i don't like the trade-offs but yeah or i don't like the trade-off and what happened during the pandemic is the moment anyone said that fucking bang you know you're getting banned off twitter or banned off youtube or whatever or just yeah it's like oh you're just saying that because you're against all the things yeah it's like because you love trump yeah yeah yeah i'm just like i'm actually yeah i feel like there was there is some people where they go well

yes obviously you think that like there is like there is certain people where like if they say hey we're going to raise minimum wage and they're like i'm against that and you're like you know shit like you know or whatever right there's certain people where you they are predictable but it's like there's a lot of people when they because yeah it kind of goes back to the simple solution thing but also when someone you already know what they think on every issue they can't kind of be trusted is my at least, you know, whatever. You already know that. But I feel like a lot of people would say that to use that argument against people like me when I was saying things like this. They'd be like, well, you would think that. And I'm like, I actually don't. I disagreed on this one, and I agreed on this.

Like, there was – I actually went and did go back and forth. It's like you're – so there's so many people. Yeah, it's like just the single order of thinking is a good one. Yeah. Yeah. You just got to think every issue through on its own merit just because you believe you know this thing about abortion doesn't mean you've got to believe this other thing about guns that that never made any fucking sense to me yeah you know what i mean it's like if or kind of yeah like why is that why are they

related yeah because it because it's team blue it's team red and everybody wants to be on a team yeah it's funny when some of them aren't even really very related like you know what i mean just like yeah what i think there should be like lower taxes and also i'm super into fucking kids transitioning how are those two things possibly connected and just just so happens that everyone who thinks one thinks the other so 100 man okay fuck yeah we're gonna be obviously Trigonometry on like iTunes Spotify every day and I did an episode too

like a year ago yeah yeah yeah it was great it's on YouTube that's where we're primarily right yeah and then and then you guys

are here till Friday but you're not doing any like specific shows yeah but and then the book when are you how are you doing

how are you doing well when is this gonna come out this will actually this is gonna come out next week next week and then the book how are you doing? how are you doing? when is this going to come out? actually this is going to come out next week so by the time it comes out I'm already on the Sunday Times bestseller list so it's going well I'm pleased man, my first book as well, and you know I was really, to be honest with you

I was very worried about writing a book because so many people now they get an audience and then they just produce more shit for the audience to buy okay and i didn't want to do that i wanted to write something that actually was worth reading did you take a long time to write i took quite a bit of time to write it and i just i really wanted to make sure that it would be because books are fucking expensive man it's like 20 bucks or something to buy a book right for a lot of people like we forget sometimes as well. I had someone message me saying, oh, I really want to get your book.

I've asked my partner to get it for me for my birthday. Some people sometimes wait like half a year to buy something that costs 20 bucks. Really? Yeah. You need an audience that isn't poor big.

Right, exactly. But you know what I mean? I sort of feel responsible about that. I wanted to make sure that it was worth people's time. And hopefully it is. Dude, it is a commitment, to be honest. A few times a year, maybe you go to a weekend somewhere or something and actually read a book or maybe on the plane.

But it's like your average person doesn't that often be like, all right, I'm going to sit down and read a book. So you're right. They're like invested. Yeah. The way that sort of podcasting became way more invested than everything else like book is the ultimate where you're like yo i'm sitting with this guy for fucking i mostly just buy books and then just look at them i got a few of those too one day i'm gonna get that yeah danny does the yeah danny's the guy if i can get rid of the

douglas murray because he didn't want to get in trouble. How to get jazzed. Danny's 90 pickup artist books. It's like 10 copies of the game. I go, let me just hide these. How to be a better ally. Front and fucking center. Orgasms for dummies. All my books are for dummies books.

Just from that collection. Oh, shit. All right. Well, thank you guys for coming on. Oh, yeah. Talk about producing Crap for an audience Yeah I'm going on tour

Oh fuck yeah Yeah From mid October Go to FrancisFoster.co.uk And come and see me on tour Where are you going to tour Glamorous places mate

South End Leicester Or you know They don't know where Any of that is I've been to London Yeah exactly I know Leicester Square It's something It's in London. Yeah, exactly. I know Leicester Square.

It's in London. Leicester is a city. Leicester is a city. I imagine the square is named after the city. It's all the best places. Just think of a good place, and I'm not going to be there. Think of a bad place, I'll be there. And obviously by this point, everyone's switched off,

but we are also doing some live trigonometry shows as well, including a Edinburgh Ember Festival. How do those go? Do you like doing those? Yeah, we do. We do. Yeah, yeah. That's going to be funny.

We do. Self-censorship in action, ladies and gentlemen. Well, it was cool hanging out with you guys. We like doing a few. Man, it's so much fun. Thanks for having us, guys. Cheers, man.

Peace, guys. Cheers, man. Peace, guys. The boys. It's the boys' cast. The lads. It's the boys' cast. The dudes. Prepare yourselves for the boys' cast. It's the bros. It's the boys' cast. The homies.

It's the boys' cast. The dudes. It's the lads. It's the boys' cast. The boys' cast. The song is lost The song is lost