The Breakdown - Bitcoin Is Digital Social Justice, feat. Tyrone Ross

Episode Date: January 2, 2021

The wealth adviser and CEO of Onramp Invest discusses why the Federal Reserve continues to ignore its role in income inequality and what the bitcoin community can do to be a force for positive change. Find our guest online: @TR401 Enjoying this content?   SUBSCRIBE to the Podcast Apple:  https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1438693620?at=1000lSDb Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/538vuul1PuorUDwgkC8JWF?si=ddSvD-HST2e_E7wgxcjtfQ Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9ubHdjcnlwdG8ubGlic3luLmNvbS9yc3M=   Follow on Twitter: NLW: https://twitter.com/nlw Breakdown: https://twitter.com/BreakdownNLW   The Breakdown is produced and distributed by CoinDesk.com

I've been able to work in whatever I wanted from home, Zoom, make money, not leave the house, not put myself at risk at all, and then turn around and look at the one device I've been using every day and say, I want to buy that stop and watch that stock go up. And then order groceries and I have to leave the house and do all these other things. That is a problem. The digital divide needs to be addressed, which takes us back to why we're hearing. The one thing that we love is cryptocurrency and digital assets is that closes that digital divide. Welcome back to The Breakdown with me, NLW. It's a daily podcast on macro, Bitcoin, and the big picture power shifts remaking our world. The breakdown is sponsored by nexo.io and produced and distributed by CoinDes. What's going on, guys? It is Friday, January 1st, 2021. We made it. We are through 2020. We are onto something new. and so given that, I had to kick off the year with Tyrone Ross. Tyrone is the CEO of OnRamp.

He's been named one of the 20 people who will change wealth management and is the host of On Purpose, a new podcast from Coin Desk. I'm thrilled to welcome Tyrone and is utterly unfailingly optimistic perspective back to the breakdown. So without any further ado, let's get into this conversation. All right, Tyrone, welcome back to the breakdown. always awesome to have you here, sir. Absolutely. Thank you again for having me. As you know, I'm your biggest fan. So I appreciate whenever you reach out and tag me to add my two Satoshis to the show.

Well, it's a good day for doing that. We're recording this on 20,000 day or whatever it'll be called in the future. So it should be a really fun conversation. And let's kick it off. Let's go big picture first. What was the most important economic story of 2020? The most important economic story, I believe, and again, you probably know where I'm going with this, is the, light that was shown on the massive income inequality in this country, we started to see that a lot of the policies that were implemented with the CARES Act and everything didn't really help those that it was intended to help in those that were on the fringe before they started 145 million working poor. So do I think it helped in some capacity? Yes, but I think it also

showed that chasm between the haves and the have-nots in this country. I mean, it's sort of in some ways serve to reinforce how bad at addressing these issues the Fed's tools are, even if you would take their intent as sincere, which is, I mean, obviously a lot of people debate, but by having to work through the banking system to get money into the economy, there's just a natural siphon off that happens, right? Absolutely. And they bookended it with coming out with the stable actors, whatever they want to call that. They were damning the technology and stable coins and this whole thing, which is literally as I've gone on record saying, the only inarguable use case that Bitcoin has is that it's a salve to the unbanked. Nobody can argue that. I've been saying it all year.

No one has challenged it yet because you can't. And when you look at Bitcoin and you look at stable coins, it's going to almost a trillion dollars in value transfer this year won't pay for that. When you look at stable coins and when you look at the most useful stable coin when it comes to the Bitcoin ecosystem is a gift card. And you look at the remittance market and the ability to use gift cards and get people overseas Bitcoin and them to be able to convert that into local currency, it's hard for them to say, all right, how are you justifying this not being a good thing for the people at the bottom and the economically impoverished that you claim you're fighting for? So it just didn't make any sense at all of me and a bunch of other people

that ranted and raped as well. Yeah, I mean, the stable act was interesting. It felt to me, and I'm interested in your take, is like, is it just a narrative hangover from people's frustration with big tech where they're not even really looking at these technologies on their own terms because Facebook was the one that introduced them to the idea of stable coins. Do you think that's part of it? I agree with that. I do think there's this connection with big tech that allows it the narrative to run away, as similar as it does in the crypto space and with Bitcoin. But again, as I think a few folks pointed out, I think Nick Carter pointed out on the Brink podcast is, well, if you look at what Square and Cash App has done and their greatest penetration in the country is in the South, I've been saying this as well, what they've done for the unbanked, you're looking at a company that, again, the first do engage the SEC about making Bitcoin available to retail investors. Square doesn't get their credit for that. They were the first to do it. And the SECs say, okay. So when you look at that, I think that stigma being attached to big tech, yes, but also, again,

as you said, they don't dig deep enough to see where the help is coming from. And most times than not, it's coming from those aligned with some way with big tech. However you feel about that, it's just true. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think it was either on Fourth of July or last year around this time. I can't remember. but sometime when you were on the show, you said explicitly that you thought that Square was the most important company in crypto.

How has that played out this year, do you think? Again, look no further than what they've announced and what they've done. I mean, starting with the news that I think is most important was rolling out microloans, huge, right? Not to the full platform, but a small segment. Massive, massive, massive thing. Because again, if you go back to the 16th century and you look at the Sousoo, which is if you look at any video that's teaching people to base, of a blockchain and cryptography and how Bitcoin comes about. A sous is that. It's just a digital version of that. It's the first thing. Second thing is when you look at now, you know, Dorsey's saying,

all right, well, we're all in. We're going to start putting some of this money in some of our, you know, reserves into Bitcoin. And now this is going to be something that, yes, we make available, but we're also going to start looking at it from a corporate standpoint. That was, again, not the biggest signal in the world to me when Apple does it, right? It will matter. But I think Square is going all in, which is why I continue to say, whether it's the cash app, whether it's, you know, on the balance sheet, whether it's, you know, Square crypto and going all in, I don't think that changes. They're still the most important company. And again, if you look at if the government had just them and others, current, there's a few other companies out there, just align with some of these companies that can simply, quote unquote, air drop, right? People's stimulus checks right into their cash app to their Venmo or their PayPal now. That's super powerful. I think at the end of this year, 2021, we'll say that'll probably be PayPal because the reach that PayPal has. And also, if you look at 53% of the people that shop at Walmart being those that make $50,000 or less, Walmart providing so many different financial services to the

unbanked, the underbanked, them trying to become a bank three times. 2019, Walmart puts in a patent for their own stable coin. Again, we'll see where that stands, but also their partnership with PayPal to be able to allow people to use Walmart cash through the app and buy things or whatever. And oh, by the way, if they really wanted to now, they can make Bitcoin available to those people. So I think maybe at the end of next year, we're talking about PayPal being that company and not cash app simply because of the ecosystem that they have directly into lower income homes. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting. Cash app, if PayPal does ascend to that sort of spot, you'll definitely have to give

cash app and square credit for forcing their hand in some way, right? I mean, it's just, the success that Cash App had was unignorable if you're a competitor. For sure. You have to look at that and go, all right, and you look, right, Venmo is going to roll it out. You had PayPal now. And again, you also have to look at, which doesn't get appreciated is the way Cash Approts, they unabashedly market to that community through hip-hop artists, through podcasts that are geared towards the black and brown community. They make no bones about it. And I've had some conversations with some of the folks over there through DM or whatever

and just being a fan of each other's work. When they were announcing the microloans and that whole thing and how they were going to roll that out, I continue to be impressed because they zeroed in on the market and they nailed that market. And it's incredible what they're doing. And it is a model for others. I don't know if they'll be as successful as far as penetration goes,

but definitely they will be as far as reach in the mass amount, especially for PayPal that they'll be able to reach. Many investors want to be a part of the next bull run. Others seek to build their dream home, finally launch that startup or fund their education. Try Nexos instant crypto credit lines and borrow against any major cryptocurrency with no minimum or maximum withdrawal amounts,

no fees whatsoever, no credit checks, and flexible repayment. Not to mention the APR starts at just 5.9%. Stay on top of your investment game with nexo.io. And remember, it's your crypto, your credit, your choice. Get started at nexo.io. Let me ask you a question. It's sort of a variant on the first one. So what is the most important or what was the most important economic story that people didn't pay enough attention to? Oh man, that is an awesome question that they didn't pay attention to.

I will say this. Almost 70% of the country is financially illiterate. I think most people didn't pay attention to how much money the government printed and what they did, right? As I was just reading 25% of all the dollars printed. I think what was in the last six months, eight months or something like that. So I don't think folks understand the money supply. They don't understand the velocity of money. They don't understand any of those things. I think the majority of people walking around. And to be honest, most of those in our industry just don't understand what that meant. And then what the signal was to large institutional investors and macro folks that all right, all you had to do was look at Real Vision and what Ralph Paul and all those guys were talking about,

but even go back to last year, all the massive gold buying that was happening before that. Then you have $18 trillion of negative yielding debt now. Like, there's so many different factors there. But I think in here, when you look at what the government did, I think a lot of people just don't understand what that meant from two sides. One of what it meant for asset prices and those that own things and have and stabilization of the economy. you look at Warren Buffer yesterday saying he actually thought what the Fed did was positive.

And then on the other side where you have from a negative standpoint where you look at what that means for those that are illiterate or don't have access because they don't have a mortgage so they can't refinance at lower rates or don't have stocks so they don't participate in the market that is going up and to the right for the last 11 years. They're not aware of crypto or Bitcoin or any of those things. They don't have accounts or whatever else. so they can't participate in any of this, and they're not even aware of what it means in terms of inflation or whatever else. So I just think it's easy to say, as I say on my walking talks,

is if you keep throwing crumbs over the fence, the people are satiated. The basic needs are met enough for them to survive, but not enough for them to thrive. So the government keeps throwing crumbs over the fence to keep the people happy. Here's a $1,200 check. Meanwhile, there's $1.2 trillion and go into all of these other organizations and things, and the majority of people don't understand what that means and how it impacts their lives. So I think that, again, as much as it was front and center for those of us that know, I think the privilege that a lot of us have

and a lot of the people that are going to be talking on your podcast and mine and others, we're privileged, we're in the know. We're a very small few. We're the ones that have done well enough to be able to zoom from our living rooms for the last eight, nine months, where the people that had to be on the front lines had no idea what was going on behind the scenes. They were just walking out to the mailbox every day to see if that $1,200 check came. And the long-term effects of this for everyone, I think, are unknown here.

So, again, I think it's right in our face with the Fed did. But I think the long-term effects here, a lot of folks are guessing and trying to figure out what that means. But we're in this weird mix here of things that is just weird. It's a parallel universe where rates are, where stocks are, where foreclosures are, but yet housing prices are going nuts. It's just a really weird time we live in, man. Are you worried about that kind of gyre widening over the next few months?

I mean, we have like mortgage forbearance that's potentially coming to an end. We have some rent forbearance that's potentially coming to an end. Do you see it getting worse before it gets better? Like the narrative is so focused on the vaccine and kind of that top level stuff that I just wonder about your take on that. I do. 50 million people, right, facing eviction. You have 9 million people that could lose their unemployment. insurance at the end of this month, but not even at the end, what are we, 10 days from now.

So I do worry about that. And again, a step up from that is all of the small business owners that are continuing to wipe down. As I talk to you now, I have a friend of mine, what my best friend, his mom, has to move now because the landlord is just like, I can't do it anymore. I have to sell the building. So she has to move. So even if it's indirect evictions, as opposed to a direct eviction, which I've experienced more times than that is a very, awful thing to happen to anybody, to have your stuff put in the street, and especially at a time where there's a pandemic and it's cold. So we're just setting up for a very weird time here. And then you have, again, folks that are parading around and taking laps on doing well.

And I get it. I definitely understand it. But just want to be sensitive that, you know, a lot of what we've seen here is you get to give. So the more you get, you should give. And there's nothing wrong with that. Listen, it just comes down to this. And I'm going to keep saying it until people listen. We've addressed the race issue in this country. We know where people stand. Cool. We knew it. If you were in the Northeast, which I've said is the most racist area of the country, we knew it. But in other parts of the country, it was coming to. We know where everybody stands now. Race is out. We know. Cool. The class issue in this country, and more importantly, the cast issue in this country is on front street, big time. And when we address this, which we are going to have to,

over the next couple of months to your question, it is going to get very, very sad and tragic because these are things that have been festering for years and decades. And now they're coming to losing a generation of children that haven't been able to go to school, access technology, people facing eviction. The long-term unemployed now, if you look at that number, has been risingly increasing. The second, third wave, I don't know what wave we are now of COVID. There are a lot of things here. Again, you can look at it, Pollyanna as well, some good things happening, but with the vaccine and all that, but that undercurrent, that bubbling up of what you saw with people in the streets, riding and looting and all that. A lot of that was built up

from years and years of other things. I don't care how you feel about riding and looting. They were doing that for a reason. And then when you look at, you know, what's on the precipice of happening here, we are going to have to address the class issue in this country. And until we address that, I've been able to work in whatever I wanted from home, Zoom, make money, not leave the house, not put myself at risk at all, and then turn around and look at the one device I've been using every day and say, I want to buy that stop and watch that stock go up. And then order groceries and not have to leave the house and do all these other things. That is a problem. The digital divide needs to be addressed, which takes us back to why we're here. And the one thing that

we love is cryptocurrency and digital assets is that closes that digital divide. It's one tool of many that needs to be put on the table here. But we have a class issue in this country that is so, so bad that we're going to have to face. And when we do, I think a lot of people are going to be blown away at what we're seeing and what we have to address in order to fix it. So education and closing the knowledge gap is obviously only one part of it. It's more structural than just making sure people have knowledge about crypto or any other thing, right? However, I wonder, I guess, did we make progress this year? I mean, this is something you and I have been talking about for, you know, a long time now.

Did we make progress this year in terms of resources available for people to learn, you know, help bringing more people in, or do we just, you know, still have a lot of work to go? It can be both, I guess. Yeah, it is both. and I will say this. One thing that I've learned is that struggle hurts. Pain hurts. Suffering is insufferable. And I think that's what we got through this year for as bad as it's been. We are finally now looking at the things we need to address. So yes, I do think there's progress there because progress all the time isn't just, oh, you know, I turn two into four. Sometimes

the best progress is losing your two and being at zero. And I think that's what we did. We've taken a major step back in this country in a lot of ways, but it's a beautiful thing. because now we can start to rebuild, we can start to align ourselves, we can start the network and lock arms for solutions that are going to get everybody, again, like I always say, there's nothing wrong with the haves and a half mores. We have the haves and the have knots right now. That's a problem. So I think it's just really important that we address what's going on here. We've done that. And I do think, yes, we've made some progress now because you're starting to see for as much as she's getting beat up about it and it's laughable to me, McKinsey Scott.

working to give away. I don't know if she's giving away $4 billion this year and she's getting ridicule for it. That is laughable to me. But you're starting to see people give it the roots and make the solutions as big as the problem. And I think that's what my goal is with a lot of the things that I'm doing and other people say, all right, we know what the problems are now. We get it. We've been saying it. Now our solutions have to be as big as the problem, and which is why I'm saying Bitcoin is digital social justice. Anybody that talks about income inequality now or financial literacy, financial education or banking, me, I'm bad, all that other stuff. And they don't put Bitcoin on a table. I tune them out. I don't want to hear it because that means you're not serious because the problem is so bad we have to put everything on the table. Don't really care how you feel about Bitcoin little B to price. Bitcoin Big B, the blockchain, the technology needs to be on the table. We are going to talk about bringing everyone into skipping right, them into the traditional financial system, but also leapfrogging and putting them into the digital financial system, it has to be on the table. If you do not bring that up, don't bring up ESG,

don't bring up social justice, don't bring up any of that because it needs to be in the conversation. And again, for those of us that fight for that, not only fighting for the power of Bitcoin and the love of Bitcoin and, you know, digital assets, but for the love of humanity, the love of people, and equality is one thing. Equality is, one thing in and of itself. It's equity. Equity means that I'm going to get an equal shot based on my need, right? Some need more than others. And equity is what gets people really itchy in America. Oh, they're all good with inequality. Oh, okay. Yeah, everybody should see the game, but you've got to see the game from standing on top of that building up there. You can, you know, it look like pebbles

down here to you. But equity means that I'm giving a front row seat because I literally was sleeping on the street before. So I get to see the game field level. So, We need to get comfortable with that. And I think, you know, digital assets in a digital asset space is going to allow us to do that. Tyrone, awesome stuff. I really encourage anyone who wants to hear you talk more about this. Follow you on Twitter if they're not already somehow. Listen to the new podcast on purpose.

One question just to wrap up. What's one prediction that only you have going into the next year? I think next year we will see a large RIA say that they have a really significant amount of their client portfolio is allocated to Bitcoin. And it will be the news of the year. Love it. Awesome. Well, sir, always great to talk to you. Standing invite to the show. And keep up the good work. Exciting year for you and a lot more good stuff to come. Absolutely. Thank you, man. Be well. Again, if you listen, please feed a hungry child. I appreciate you, man. Thank you for your advocacy.