The Breakdown - Kevin O’Leary on AI, Data Centers, and Why He Sold 27 Crypto Positions | The Breakdown

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

AI is reprogramming the social fabric — and nobody can agree whether that’s a good thing. Kevin O’Leary, investor and entrepreneur, joins us to share his framework for navigating the AI era across investing, data centers, and crypto. TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Introduction (01:33) One Shot, One Opportunity (03:20) Two Wolves (06:02) Nexo Ad (06:36) Interview with Kevin O’Leary (08:56) Datacenters as a Political Issue (12:13) How Kevin Uses AI (14:39) Nexo Ad (15:36) What Makes an AI Company Worth Investing In? (17:39) Thoughts on Negative Sentiment (19:09) How Does Crypto Fit Into This? (23:26) Marty Supreme Role (25:27) Developing Taste (29:45) Advice for Future Generations FOLLOW GUEST › Kevin O’Leary — https://x.com/kevinolearytv FOLLOW THE SHOW › David — https://x.com/dcanellis › The Breakdown — https://the-breakdown.carrd.co/ SPONSORS › NEXO Nexo is the premier digital wealth platform. Receive interest on your crypto, borrow against it without selling, and trade a range of assets. Now available in the U.S with 30 days of exclusive privileges. Get started at http://nexo.com/breakdown Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to the Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ DISCLAIMER As always, remember this podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely their opinions, not financial advice.

Whatever you might personally think about AI and the associated sloppification of all things. It's obvious that while on the technological level, AI might be in the same category of revolutions like the steam train at electricity. But on the cultural level, it's really like smartphones in 2008 and social media in 2011, in that whatever is happening has started to feel almost irreversible. And we are calling it iPhone. It's got everything you need, all wrapped up in one. Smart phone withdrawal can cause anxiety, insomnia, and even depression. Could this revolution happen without Twitter, Facebook? All of us can participate through these social media tools.

I think that's one of the most fascinating part. With social media, you're being subtly manipulated by algorithms. While few of us can naturally really agree whether AI is making life for the average person better or worse, AI, like smartphones and social media, is in the process of reprogramming the social fabric. We just don't really know to what end, but I suppose that's half the fun. Still, I can't help but shake an eerie feeling that it's all going to come to a head in very unexpected way. I'm your host David Canellas and this is The Breakdown. Let's get to it. This episode is brought to you by Nexo. Step into a new era of digital wealth. Earned interest

on your digital assets, borrow against them without selling and trade all in one platform. Get started at nexo.com slash breakdown. Nothing said on The Breakdown is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are opinions, not financial advice. Host and guests may hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed. Right now it's practically impossible to talk about AI normally. Bring it up and you'll need to already know how the other side of the conversation feels about LLMs and agents. Maybe they're totally one-shotted like Gary Tan or Mark and Dresen, and they're now in the midst of outsourcing most of their comprehension, analysis and overall

information harvesting to the machine. And just in terms of order magnitude like this is clearly bigger than the internet. We're sort of three years in to what is a secondly an 80-year revolution. In that case, you have little choice but to convert as a true believer or lest you be shunned as a Luddite. Or maybe they're still normie-brained enough to be totally disgusted by the idea that glorified auto-complete could produce anything of value at all, let alone reason better than they can. This is not a tool that is revolutionizing learning. This is a nightmare that is destroying learning.

A hundred percent of times when I see students use it, it is so they do not have to think. Although I would probably bet that person, likely a bona fide word cell, doesn't code. It seems more likely than ever that those two worlds will eventually collide. Consider that the International Energy Agency says that electricity demand from AI-optimized data centers is projected to more than quadruple by 2030. So within the next four years. Projections from epoch AI otherwise suggest that by 2030 the world may have enough AI compute installed to support potentially enormous numbers of always-on AI workers running in parallel,

as long as the models themselves get good enough. Now consider that one particular study by Pew Research Center found that only 10% of adults surveyed were more excited than concerned about the increased use of AI in daily lives, down from 18% in 2021, while 50% of respondents were more concerned than excited. It's not unlikely that we'll see that divide it much wider as AI seeps across humanity even further over the coming half decade. All that's reflected in how the air around AI and tech feels right now. Those who don't spend their days cracked over clawed might as well join the permanent underclass willingly, while the overachieving fast adopters are now working 14 hour days, seven days a week to escape it.

For those of us who are already living most of their lives digitally, then you probably find yourself bouncing between the two camps. On one day you're convinced that AI is about to replace all manner of white collar work. with whole professions doomed to be automated out of existence, including yours, along with a bunch of apps and services we've grown accustomed to over the past two decades, like Google Search. Catch you on another day after a full day of wrestling with Claude and running out of Pro Credits, and you might say that AI really is just an overhyped slot machine and the skeptics are right.

We really have all been gaslit by billionaires who have led us down a technological dead end, with every other company across the economy now dealing with an executive suite totally captured by the relentless founder energy that makes up accelerationist pro AI discourse right now. Now. Here's what happened to Gary. And I know this because it happened to me. It happens to everyone. You sit down with Claude and you have an idea. You describe it to Claude. And Claude goes, oh, it's a brilliant idea. It's a brilliant approach. Let me build that for you. And it builds it and it works. And the whole time, Claude is gassing you up. It's like coding with someone who's in love with you. It just thinks you're incredible. And after a few hours of this, after

this machine that sounds smarter than anyone you've ever met has spent an entire afternoon telling you that everything you do is genius you actually start to believe it you're like am i actually cracked bro at the same time you increasingly rely on AI to keep track of your gym workouts make you recipes of the ingredients in your home and strategize your career and that's even without maintaining a massive web of agenic puppets that do your bidding is your own personal r&D department maybe the pendulum is going to swing all the way back. And maybe your own brain and unique taste can get through life just fine without asking chat, GPD or Claude. And maybe it would feel better to do it like you used to a year and a half ago before the chat bot. But if that's really all AI ever was, an app

for helping to write emails, summarise documents, plan trips, clean up spreadsheets, generate code, prep for interviews, help with homework, troubleshoot DIY improvements and whatever, then I'm not really sure there would be the same level of anxiety about what's coming next. And maybe if exposure to AI snafus was only limited to maybe lawyers, football coaches, real estate agents and accountants, then our future might not feel as mysterious as it does right now. But doctors, surgeons, astronauts, electricians and armies are all using AI to varying degrees, risks and outcomes. All this points to a new type of culture war. Over how far we should really go to integrate AI into the fabric of our collective realities. And who better to

figure out a way through all of this than Kevin O'Leary, a storied investor and entrepreneur who's been riding the waves of culture and technology for four decades. I recently caught up with Kevin and here's some of what we spoke about. era of digital wealth with Nexo, the Premier Digital Assets Wealth Platform. Earn interest on your digital assets, borrow against them without selling, trade a wide range of cryptocurrencies, all in one place. Nexo is now available again in the US with an evolved product suite tailored to today's market. For a limited time, new US clients can unlock 30 days of exclusive Wealth Club Premier benefits,

including enhanced interest rates, reduce borrowing costs, and up to 0.5% crypto cashback on trades. Get started today at nexo.com slash breakdown. As always, investments in blockchain technology involve risk. Terms and conditions apply. Do your own research. With me is Kevin O'Leary, famed investor, Mr. Wonderful himself. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.

I mean, it's great to connect with you at such a weird and interesting time in the world. And I say that because, like, AI is starting to feel like what smartphones were like in 2008 and what social media was like in 2011. Like, I can't, I think all of us can't imagine a world without smartphones. and also social media, and I'm already feeling like I can't imagine existing without LLMs to chat to and kind of unpack everything that's happening around me. You've seen plenty of hype cycles before and even outside of tech as well. I'm curious your framing of why AI is different than the hype cycles that we've seen before

over the past couple of decades. Well, I think what differentiates it versus other hype, think of early 90s, Pets.com and the coming of the Internet and everything else, is AI tools are very measurable in terms of what they perform and provide for. If you're looking to measure margin enhancement or productivity or speed of task, all of that's very measurable. And so the skepticism that was around two years ago is gone because in all 11 sectors, the tools being used one way or the other,

from real estate, biology, health care, you name it, insurance, financial services, is very measurable. The cost to implement it measurable, the output measurable, margin measurable, productivity measurable. So that's where the skepticism is melted away, certainly in our companies, which are in all 11 sectors, every single one of them is using a tool or multiple tools for various reasons. And I also look at new opportunities to invest, and I do not unless there is somebody in there that is using a tool to enhance their business because their competitors are for sure. So if they're not doing it, they'll be cast by the wayside. So I'm not that skeptical at all. I think the market has put a tremendous valuation on it. But from my investment point of view, other than

leasing the tools for our companies, the space drive I've put more money to work is in the picks and shovels and infrastructure of AI, which is data centers all over the world. Norway, Finland, United States, Canada. We have projects everywhere. Yeah, I was looking to touch on your work with data centers, and I'm curious how you would respond to this idea that AI is going to become the biggest, if not one of the biggest political flashpoints moving into the midterms and then the next election also. And I'm sure you've seen the stories about, you know, city councilmen's homes being reigned with bullets because they've just all of a sudden supported some data center project.

And you're obviously doing a lot with data centers. Are you seeing data centers as a political issue? Like, because there's considerations around land and water and energy. And a lot of these are like very small town politics as well. Does that impact how you view investing in the AI space overall, the politics of it all? Well, yes. I mean, it is a political hot potato because the first iteration of data centers in Virginia, for example, all attached to the grid. And the utility price of power went up.

for the library, the hospital, the residences, the small businesses, everything. And so that became extremely bad and a very negative political story. You can't build a data center anymore on the grid. That model's gone. You have to provide your own power. And so I think where we're going to go with this whole industry is you have to find the power first. Right now, I think the most attractive opportunities in North America are associated with stranded natural gas or gas that's affordable. that can be put through turbines.

So if you're going to build a typical hyperscaler facility, 1.4 gigawatts, that's multiple billions of dollars. You're going to use stranded net gas, use turbines. But the better strategy would be to keep maybe 15% of what you're going to generate and offer it back to the grid. So all of a sudden, instead of being the enemy, you're part of the solution and you're providing the power you need for the hyperscaler. So that's kind of the model we're morphing into, you know,

of our projects. We're not attaching the grid at all. Now, policy has to change regarding attachment to the grid because it's called FERC in the U.S. and it has different names in different countries, but there's an old adage in Washington, D.C., I don't want to get FERC. And so you spend seven years getting screwed around by policymakers better. So what most developers have done like I have, we don't even pursue that. And we're telling state and local and federal government, look, if you want power, we're happy to give it to you, but we're not going to wait seven years for you to decide if you want it or not. So we'll just finance based on building our own, you know, facility that has nothing to do with the grid. And that's where we're at right now.

Yeah, it just seems like something that you have to be on the front lines a little bit in order to push it forward. And obviously, there's going to be push back against, you know, how you do advance, advance the space. And I don't think that there's a very nice. A very nice, neat way of going through it at all. It is just like a tug and war of the innovation as it moves forward. I wonder if we could like zoom in a little bit. Like how are you personally using AI and LLMs and maybe also the people working around you? Like I'm sure like your portfolio companies as you said are integrating it as well. But I wonder on a personal level how you're integrating it into your own life. First of all, on the, you know, some of the businesses that

I'm a large shareholder in like Wondercare watch insurance. a product I'm in partnership with Chubb that provides insurance for watches, as you know, I'm a big watch collector. But the problem with putting watches on your home packages, if the watch gets stolen or lost, the entire insurance for the home goes up. So we designed a product that just insures the watch. Now, the challenges in watch insurance and policy are state-to-state regulated. Historically, it would take sometimes two weeks to get a policy generated. We can now do it with data scraping in nine seconds. So that's enhanced that business dramatically, and it's been very successful in one of my fastest growing companies.

Personally, I've been a photographer for decades. I came up as a photographer and a cameraman and an editor. So I've using a lot of AI tools to go back. Some of my early images from the 80s and 90s, I took a picture, for example, of Jim Morrison's bus before it was stolen. And I rescanned the negative and used some very advanced AI tools to bring Jim back to life. posted it yesterday on Instagram when he said his famous words, the future is uncertain and the end is always near. Imagine a marble bust looking at you, opening its eyes and speaking to you.

It was daunting and haunting at the same time. But I did that in a matter of, I got up in the morning. I was in a hotel a couple of days ago at three in the morning, you know, with insomnia and created that maybe 45 minutes. So, and posted it and got a lot of feedback. So, you know, for me, it's an artistic tool. It's a financial services tool. It's a tool used for customer acquisition, content creation, enhancing ROAS, return on ad spend, you name it. We don't develop the AI from scratch. There's five stacks out there. I use them all. You know, they're all different. People think it's a commodity. It's not. These stacks are developed specifically for unique case uses, you know. And I think you should think, you should think. about it that way the more you use the tools the more you realize what their deficiencies are and what they're advanced at and so for me use them all i mean they're just they're there no one's going

to keep spending billions to to set up you know i think we have five maybe three of them survive i don't know who it's going to be but let the market be the market let's take a moment to talk about nexo nexo delivers a premier digital assets wealth platform designed to help clients build manage and preserve their wealth earn interest on your digital assets Access crypto-backed credit without selling your holdings. Trade with advanced tools, all supported by 24-7 client care. Now back in the US, NXO offers new clients 30 days of exclusive World Club Premier Access. That means enhanced interest rates, reduce borrowing costs, and up to 0.5% crypto cashback on trades.

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Yeah, that's right. And I think it's a really good segue into what I'm looking to ask you next. Is what actually makes an investable AI company? Because, I mean, of course we have like the frontier labs and there's some of the most valuable companies in the world. Obviously, Nvidia is huge. And then we have the hyper-scaleers. But what about like the startup?

and the smaller companies, like how do you value a company or a startup and the potential value in the future if they're still getting off the ground, but they really do want to integrate everything with AI or even advance AI as a technology itself? What is an investable AI company to you? Venture capital metrics and statistics haven't changed since the 50s. The best way to look at it is if you invest in 10 companies, including AI startups, only two of them are going to provide all your returns. Two will be huge winners. Maybe you get a thousand X on your money.

Six are going to be zombies and waste your time as they just drift into mediocrity. Nothing you can do about that. And two will go out of business in 36 months. That's typical. And so I don't worry about that. I don't get emotionally involved. I make a lot of investments in terms of diversification. Wait three to five years.

exit the ones that are successful, then rinse and repeat and do it again. So, you know, you can't pick winners. The only thing you can do is have diversity in your investments. And I say the same thing on Shark Tank, the same thing on AI. Obviously, I want lucky entrepreneurs, people with executional skills, but that doesn't guarantee success either. So you need a lot of things to work in your favor. And one of those is luck and karma for you to be successful, particularly in tech.

where there's very low barrier to entry in terms of AI tools. Yeah, it's curious because at one point, I imagine using AI and integrating AI into your business was an edge. But when everyone is using AI, then it does kind of revert back to the foundations of venture investing. That's the founders and what they've identified in the market and how they intend to execute. It's just a tool. I mean, it's not say, oh, it's going to change the way we're going to lose all our jobs. yada, yada, wuf, who, whiff, whiff. That's all BS. I mean, it's no different that when television came and displaced radio, didn't wipe radio out. There'll be a lot of mundane jobs that people

don't want to do anyways that'll be reposed verbatically, which I think is interesting. But AI itself is a tool with its limitations. So look, if I'm a politician raising money at a fundraiser, it's great to say AI is going to end the world. I mean, you've got to come up with something to break through the noise. But everybody knows that's BIA. And so I just think, you know, looking, for example, at the conflict in the Middle East, that was a unique war, maybe still ongoing war. And I hate war, obviously, but there weren't that many boots on the ground. I understand people went in to rescue the F-15 pilots, but most of it was precision ordinance driven by AI tools and advanced technology that allowed either side to use drones to inflict damage. And so the future of warfare will be based on who's got the best AI.

They'll win the wars. And, you know, the advancement of robotics and everything else and missile technology. So my attitude is maybe if I'm going to be an investor in this, I'm better off to invest in the picks and shovels, which is the data center themselves. And lease those facilities out to whoever wants to pay the most rent. It's that simple. That's right. Yeah. And this is, it's a good jumping off point to then bring up crypto.

like how do you see crypto fitting into all this? Because in many ways, like how I view it is that Bitcoin, like the rise of Bitcoin over the past decade or so, really primed everyone for this conversation about data centers. And there's also a lot of parallels between the crypto true believers who were hell-bent on seeing these innovations through, but then had a media and a public that were largely skeptical about whether those innovations were real.

And I'm seeing that also play out with AI, and that you have people who are tracking the developments of AI very closely, and they can see what is going to happen over the next few years, but then they're kind of bewildered why some parts of the media or some parts of the general public aren't as on board with what they're seeing. Do you have any – I mean, I guess you don't have any sympathy for the non-believers, I guess. But how do you see crypto fitting in to a world that is just wrapped with AI and the evolution of it right now? Well, I think the disappointment on crypto is because it didn't get adopted as quickly as people thought.

We had the Genius Act, which basically let stable coins exist as a digital payment system. So that market is growing and I'm an investor there and I use the product. But we need the structure or a Clarity Act to actually allow institutions to take on crypto. Now, I think that act will be passed in the next 12 months, which is good. But the bad news is this. Last October, when it was thought that the Stability Act would close at the end of 2025, right on the heels of the Clarity Act that made the decision on stable coins, it didn't happen. But what did happen was a lot of sovereign wealth funds that were planning to put a position on in crypto. We're doing the research, getting ready to decide,

well, which positions should I have on? There's 10,000 tokens. How many do I need? to get exposure to the market. And this is where the sobering reality struck. You know, and I even adjusted my own positions. I can get 97.5% or more in any one month of the entire market volatility with two positions, Bitcoin and Ethereum. So what do you do with the other 10,000 coins or whatever you want to call them, tokens or platforms or blockchains?

They're just poo. They're poo coins. And so there's no need to own poo poo. There's no reason at all because you can just have two positions that provide you with the liquidity you need and capture 95 or 97% of the volatility. So around October 20 last year, 2025. If you go back and look at the charts of all the poo pooh coins, they all collapse. Some of them down 98% and they never came back and they never will. There's no reason for. for them to exist. And it's sobering. It's, you know, I feel sad for the, for the entrepreneurs that worked on them. But it's the right thing to do for the market. A spatula comes down, you know, from the sky and scrapes all the poo away, which is very good for the surviving aspects. So I would say, so I sold 27 positions down to two.

I just, oh, well, actually three. I own USC. I own Bitcoin to own Ethereum. I don't need to own anything else. And all the other pooh-poo coins, they're in a sense screwed because they don't have any marketing dollars to, like, look at my poop-a-coin,

look at my poo-poo coin. Who cares? Because you can't get any institutional interest in the poo-poo. And without marketing dollars, I think to bring a new poo-poo coin to the front that you'd actually get on, you know, network TV would track, It costs you $200 million a year.

And which poo-poo coins can afford that? And there's no reason to own them on top of that. So I think it's healthy. Scraping away the poo is one of the best things that's happened since last October. Yeah, I definitely sympathize with that take. I'm wondering, would Milton Rockwell have bought Bitcoin? No, he just wants royalties. I mean, that's what I loved about that role.

The minute they mentioned Milton was doing royalties on ballpoint pens in 1950s. I said, I'm your guy. Like, that's it. That was fantastic. I had a lot of fun with that. And I, you know, I've always said, it's important to work outside of your comfort zone. And that's why I actually decided to try scripted and act because I've never done it before. And I think in a way, I would advise that.

I would give that advice to everybody. I mean, you really need in your life to find something you don't know you can do and try it. because it keeps the one muscle in your body that you don't exercise enough, your brain. You've got to do that. You have to try new things. And for me, Milton Rockwell, Marty Supreme, and acting with Chalamey and Guadalemay and Guadro and the other great actors in that film was something I just had to try. And I'm pretty proud of the outcome.

You wouldn't have known that. And it worked out well. No, I was saying before the call that we're recording here that, yeah, I really think that you crushed. It was a pleasure to watch you on screen. It was very cool to see you do that. And it's almost like you're reading my mind because these questions really flow into each other because, you know, I wanted to talk to you about taste. It's safe to say that you're a man of taste. You really enjoy the things that you enjoy. And I think that's a beautiful thing. But in a world where everyone is using the same AI, there's a theory out there that perhaps that that will water down

the collective taste if we're all kind of interacting with the same large language models, which then conversely would mean that having strong personal taste might eventually become one of the most valuable commodities in whatever our future culture looks like that's so intertwined with AI. How do you go about developing that strong sense of taste in a world where everything has been synthesized for us digitally through these, through these AI systems? I think you have to pursue things that interest you. I mean, I think in business, what makes you better as a manager or investor is that you have some balance in terms of how you use your brain all day. And, you know, I pursue photography, watch collecting, guitars, I play guitar. I try and find time for all of them

because they're different. But I would say that it certainly made me perform better as as an investor because it's the yin and yang the discipline of making money or losing it's very binary very black and white but the arts are completely different it's subjective and you know when i create a post like i did with jim morrison i get feedback from people and i consider myself when i'm doing that an artist same when i play guitar or you know uh pursue eclectic interests like that i'm a film editor from way back i still edit my own stuff and so i think art And science go together. And I think that's a philosophy that everybody should have.

I don't consider myself only a investor or businessman. You know, I'm also many other things. And I'm happy, you know, maybe I'm known for Shark Tank more than anything else. I don't know. But I would like to be known for my photography, my filmmaking, you know, my editing, my guitar playing, all of it. Although I have much work to do in all of those. Yeah, so I just might shift gears then to how you're filtering that through into your portfolio

and your investments. I know you spoke about reducing some of your crypto positions or at least centralizing them to the majors. But I'm wondering, like, maybe you could share some insight into how you're thinking about positioning in a world that is really, you know, I mean, the AI is just so powerful in the markets that it almost feels like the next leg up is so reliant on whatever does come out of these frontier labs. And it's very difficult to have a window in into what is happening there.

So how are you positioning your investments in your portfolio with all of that in mind right now? Well, I take a diversification approach. I took a snapshot of my portfolio and I'm marked to market every month. I'm about 40% in international equities, 20% in, you know, fixed income products. So I get some kind of yield, also global. And 10% in alternatives like gold and Bitcoin. And then 10% is some very eclectic alternatives,

like collectible sports cards. I have very big positions in those. And the crazy thing is they've outperformed everything of the other asset classes. We bought a triple logo man. and Otto last August for, in our syndicate for 12.93 million, just got offered 21 million for it. Here we are April. I don't have anything in my portfolio with those kind of returns.

Now, it's the only card of its kind in the world, so it's a piece unique. Watches are a big thing for me. I have millions of dollars worth of watches, and they've all appreciated over time, a very selective on what I buy. So I like alternative asset class, but they don't have liquidity.

That's the thing. You've got to understand. That's the issue. So I do hold a lot of liquid positions. And that's how I sleep at night. I concern myself with, okay, what should I have in liquidity? I really don't like it to be less than 15% ever. Were you tempted to trade oil perps or anything like that throughout everything that was happening with the straight of poor news?

I used to trade the commodity markets. It's very, very finicky because often there's leverage in the forward contracts and everything else. You saw what happened yesterday with oil. I mean, that was one of the most dramatic selloffs I've ever seen. And if you were levered, you got slaughtered. So that's not for me. I don't need to do that. I don't take that kind of this.

Yeah, fair enough. And I just wanted to maybe bring it a little bit more personal. We only have time for maybe a couple more. But, you know, you've got a couple of kids and they're all grown up now. Like, I've got a son who's turning three in August. And I think a lot of our audiences, perhaps they were quite young when they got into crypto and Bitcoin and they've now grown up in a world that's like rapidly changing and maybe they have some kids of their own. And with AI, it's really hard to tell what the world is really going to look like in 10 or 15 years and what environment, you know, our kids are going to be growing up in at that time. and I'm wondering your advice for for you know someone who might be 15 in 2035 or something like that

how would you know you go around navigating to build up an empire that that you've built up in an AI enabled world surrounded by crypto and all these like very attention-grabbing things that are that are very flash in the pan at times yeah I understand but I you know I've in terms to giving career advice in the past I've always said for like two decades just do engineering engineering engineering engineering and a night more engineering because you're guaranteed a job but today that's changed a bit engineering is still important but some of the highest paying jobs today because of what a i is provided is storytelling editing photography content creation um people that know how to use the algorithms on social media and can create content are extremely valuable to corporations.

So instead of being paid $38,000, some of these people are making half a million a year and they're not full-time employees because what they do is very measurable. If you can create a post and acquire 1,000 customers and your CAQ, customer acquisition cost is below lifetime value, you've made a lot of money for that company and they're willing to pay your percentage of it. And so those people have become extremely valuable and they weren't just 10 years ago. So artists are having their day in the sun as it reflects on AI and social media. Yeah, it's somewhat reassuring.

That's what I studied in university way back in the day was literature and writing. And then it's like I had done half a computer science degree and dropped out and decided not to. But then it's come back around that storytelling and writing and literature, it turns out to be very useful in a world that is kind of sense. synthesized for you, all the context is pre-synthesized before you even get there, essentially. But it's so cool that you are also really funneling so much of your time and attention into art as well. So it's a very nice reflection there that those two worlds can coexist, because for a while it seemed like those two worlds could not coexist in a very efficient way that was conducive to actually financial freedom and everything like that as well. well. That's true, but that's just the nature of what's happened. I mean, I think these are

interesting times to be alive, as you noted earlier. There's a lot of issues in the world, but advancing technology does not seem to be one of the problems. It just gets more and more interesting for all aspects of life, including defense, medicine, art, you name it, music. It's all tied up in AI now one way or another. That's right. I think that we can end it on that Thank you so much for joining us today, Kevin. I appreciate it. Take care.