The Breakfast Club - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez On Local Elections, Tucker Carlson, Nancy Pelosi, Dems Rebranding + More

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez On Local Elections, Tucker Carlson, Nancy Pelosi, Dems Rebranding + MoreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yep, it's the world's most dangerous morning show, The Breakfast Club. Charlamagne Tha God, Angela Yee, DJ Envy had to step out, and we have a very special guest in the building. AOC is here. What's up? What's up?

How are you feeling? I'm good. I'm good. I'm feeling good. I mean, it's election day. Yeah. There's nerves. There's a lot, you know, high stakes, but I'm feeling good.

I'm feeling determined. Well, I think you're feeling good. I'm concerned about New York, you know. Yes. I was reading your opponent, Tina Forte, has like a 1% chance. Yeah, yeah. Something crazy like that. But you're here because obviously, like, New York is in a crazy time right now.

What do you attribute that to, especially looking at the governor's race? I mean, there's so much that's going on right now. I mean, and just socially and everything that we've been through in the last two years. I think a lot of that is culminating to this moment. I think there's a lot of media narratives culminating in this moment. I think a lot of people don't know what's up and down and down is up. But, you know, there's a lot that's being discussed about crime and public safety and health care and wages and union fights. And all of this is leading to this moment where we're like, it's it's like the stakes are really high. And especially

out here in New York, we have Lee Zeldin running for governor. I work with him. He's a member of Congress. And this dude, he's not even pretending to try to be like almost like the way Mitt Romney tries to position himself as a more moderate Republican. He's not even trying with that. Like he's out and out, anti-choice. He he wants to roll back all of the bail reform laws that we've worked so hard to pass. He's, you know, it's not good news. Trump supporter, all of it. Yeah. Election denier, all of it. He was up here. He was up here, actually. Do you think the Democrats need a rebrand? And the reason I say that is because I saw Stacey Abrams say that it's not that voters have a lack of enthusiasm. They have a lack of trust in the whole party and it's affecting

all of them in their individual races. What do you think about that? I think, I think it, when I'm in these rooms with other members of Congress, I think there's a real struggle to try to, for people to kind of express the policies that they want to express in a way that appeals to everybody, right? Like that's the central problem is that you have Democrats that are running in very, you know, less diverse, predominantly white, affluent suburban communities. And then you have Democrats like me

who represent the Bronx. And those are two completely different universes with very just different realities. That's an understatement. Yeah. Yeah. No, but seriously.

And so I think it becomes hard for the party to come together and say this is what we believe because they think some things are too extreme. I think other things are too conservative or off base or whatever. And, yeah, I mean, I think it can be hard. I think it can be hard to say what what does the party stand for? Whereas the Republican Party, a lot of what they a lot of the communities they represent are very unified a lot more homogenous a lot more homogenous if you were running for senate in west virginia as a democrat do you think you would win me exactly i'm like me it's a completely different thing probably not but you'd have to be a joe manchin

type democrat that's why he won here's the thing. Like, yeah. But also a state like West Virginia was blue. Like states in the South were blue. Not that some of them have been red for a very long time. But some of them, a lot of places turn red in the 90s, not in the 50s or 60s or 70s. They turn red in the 90s. And a lot of that has to do with economic policy. A lot of it has to do with NAFTA, with trade, with a lot of union-busting policies. And so you don't necessarily have to be like Joe Manchin. I do think that you can be more progressive

in an economic sense. But the fact of the matter is, that's who has represented West Virginia for a very long time. Why are people so scared of progressives? Why does progressive messaging get turned into socialism and everything else? Like, why? Well, I think our entire political system is beholden to big money. Both parties have really big factions that really answer a lot to Wall Street. And so there are incentives in both parties, like incentivized on 100% of the Republican Party,

and then there are incentives in good chunks of the Democratic Party to brand people who want to pursue guaranteed health care in this country as extreme, who want to pursue just widespread increases in wages, which will cut the bottom line of a lot of folks on Wall Street, to brand us as too extreme, to brand us as just like way beyond the pale, extreme left, et cetera. And there's so much incentive to equate someone like me with someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, right? Like we're supposed to be equally extreme on both sides, except there's only one of us here

that doesn't believe American democracy should exist, and that's her, right? And she gives off white supremacists. You don't give off prejudice, sorry. Not to me anyway. No, no. But, you know, the right wing also weaponizes that because for a lot of people, equality feels like oppression. They're like, wait a minute. What do you mean?

I can't have these things that I've always had that were unjust. Right. And so, you know, I think that there's just a universal incentive to to brand the things that we believe as extremists. But then you look at American history and you look at the biggest champions in American history. And honestly, none of them were capitalist either. Martin Luther King, Ella Baker, Malcolm X, like these were all people that were saying we need to start really considering a world where people come before profit more seriously and what that looks like. Now, what do you think is going on with Kathy Hochul versus Lee Zeldin? How did he manage to close the gap the way that he did? I mean, I see a ton of ads, but what do you think it is that appeals to people when it comes to pitting them against each other? I think there's two things. I think there's there's like the Republican operation itself. And then I think there's a media operation

as well. When we talk about this narrative on crime, Lee Zeldin, I think, really ascended on this narrative of crime and complaining about New York City and really leaning into this media narrative that New York City is like this terrible crime ridden place. He had a drive by in front of his house. Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, I think. But the thing is, is that when you actually look at what he's trying to do, he's trying to make this problem worse, not better. Because it was Democrats that in the last couple of months, we passed the first major gun reform bill in 30 years in this country. We're the ones who closed the boyfriend loophole where people who were committing domestic violence could get a gun, which was one of the biggest drivers of of gun violence in this country. He didn't want to do that. You know, he it's this he didn't do that. You know, it was really us in the driver's seat. There were there were Republicans that joined on that, but it didn't happen until Democrats were

in charge. And not only that, but but when you look at what is driving a lot of the gun violence in New York City, it's guns that are not coming from New York State. They're coming from Republican states that have rolled back all of their gun protections. They're coming from Georgia, South Carolina, Ohio. And Lee Zeldin is trying to make New York's gun laws like those states. It's going to cause our shootings to explode even more. But why has he caught up, you know, in these polls? I think media, if you look at reporting, the actual level of crime and any changes in the level of crime is in no way consistent with the explosion in media reporting on crime. And I want to be clear that any level of crime affects a family. It's trauma. But there is really no justification for reporting on these things going up three, four, five hundred percent, which affects perception. We actually see that shootings are down when we see that huge indicators on the most violent crime in New York City is down.

Subway crime is up. But let's also note that subway crime is up after they committed so many more officers to the subway system. So that also tells us from a policy perspective, adding more cops to the subway isn't solving this problem. So there are other things that can solve this problem. We had the governor up here last week, and one thing that concerns me about some Democrats is that they still seem like they're, they feel like they can play nice with the fascists. Yeah. They're still talking about the Republican Party,

like that's the good old conservatives they grew up with. Like, this is different. And that concerns me. It's like, if you can't see it for what it is, you know, and can't call it out, I'm like, ugh, yeah, I mean, it's hard because I think some folks, they feel stuck between a rock and a hard place. Like you're running in these areas where that may be more competitive. I have a lot more Republicans. But so like I think there's an instinct there to play nice to it, to try to placate, to win people over. But the cost of that is that we are normalizing increasingly abnormal, erratic, violent behavior. And that is like,

they're just increasingly treating it as though these people are rational. And they're really not. I mean, you look at Lee Zeldin did not want to acknowledge he voted and he ask? God forbid he win. Why should he expect his election results to be acknowledged if he refuses to acknowledge any election result he doesn't like? Right. You think the whole system is not fair, but then if you win, it's fair. That doesn't make any sense. And that's their whole game. And I think it's really important for people to hear, too, that there because of mail in ballots and because of early voting, many states have passed laws that don't allow those ballots to be unsealed until Election Day, which means those ballots aren't counted. And so there are a lot of races that are not going to be called tonight because so many of the of the ballots are mailed in.

And Republicans have already indicated, like some of the major Republican lawyers, and they're already ramping up on this rhetoric that they're going to try to declare victory early or that any race that isn't declared by the end of tonight is going to be suspicious and that they're going to try to, you know, claim essentially setting up this claim that they're going to try to say that it was stolen. I saw Carrie Lake, she's running in Arizona for governor. She was saying that she wins no matter what the results are. She will not say that she'll accept whatever the results are. She'll only accept it if she wins.

And that's what fascism looks like. That's what fascism looks like. That's what fascism looks like. That's right. It doesn't matter how you vote. I win. Win or lose, I win. And it's very important that we call that out because here's what is dangerous about that. Let's say Carrie Lake loses today. Because of her rhetoric, she is priming people to have little, God forbid, mini January 6th at state capitals across this country.

I mean, they're already out there in Arizona with the guns. That's what they're trying to, exactly. They're out here, like this is Jim Crow. You know, people talk about fascism. They talk about, you know, Nazism, Nazism. But, you know, even even then, a lot of fascist movements in the early 19th century took their inspiration from the Jim Crow America. That's a fact. And the woman you're running against, she was there January 6th. She was there January 6th.

So what was she doing there? I mean. Partying. Certainly not having a tea party. Right. Because I want to be very clear. She was an insurrectionist. She was an insurrectionist.

She does not acknowledge the results of elections. And here's the thing is that if these folks are running here in New York City, they're running everywhere. I don't even think that should be allowed. You should not be allowed to run for office if January 6th you're at the Capitol rioting and endangering people's lives. Think about being black and brown. If you got certain things on your record, you're not even eligible for certain jobs, but they can run for elected office. Tell me how you have Ron DeSantis sending out people, arresting black men who served their debt to society. They served their time.

They got out. They want to reestablish their lives and be productive members of society. And he's out here arresting people and upholding things like Florida basically has upholded upheld poll taxes. And so he's out here arresting people, whether it is right or wrong. The fact of the matter is that he's scaring people enough to not turn out because they're afraid. So tell me how you have Ron DeSantis out here arresting black and brown men in the state of Florida, people in general. And then you've got people out here that were rushing the Capitol, storming the Capitol on January 6th.

And they're actually running for office in record numbers right now. Like if you were at McDonald's and you tore up McDonald's and beat somebody up, you can't go work at McDonald's after that. No, I don't like you know what I'm saying? I don't see how you can go get a job working in Congress. If you're in public housing and you live in public housing and you have a friend come over and on the way out your friend gets stopped and frisked and they find that there's you know they have some weed on him you could have you could be denied housing for the rest of your life you know actually we have a bill that's trying to change this but like that is the bar that is the standard that that so many black brown and poor communities

are held to. But I mean, this is really what the tale of two Americas is. And there's so much of a fear in talking about race. And I think sometimes this is one of the one of the issues that we have as a country and some of the most controversial issues that i think the democratic party struggles with they're issues of race when they talk about crime and mass incarceration and immigration these are like the three issues that it's like humina humina like there's not good answers on because we have an issue with discussing race and how it translates to policy

in this country. How does that, I'm glad you said that because like, you know, when you hear, when you hear the vice president or, you know, Mr. Clyburn say racism, when they get asked if there's racism exists in this country and they're like, oh, well, no, not really or whatever it is. How does that affect legislation when there's legislation that's based on race that comes across these desks? I think what I think it is is like is when people struggle to connect the dots.

I think there's a lot of people that will acknowledge that racism exists in like this theoretical, like, yes, it exists. It's a concept, you know. But I think people struggle connecting the dots in how it shows up in policy because they will claim that a lot of things aren't racist.

Or you look at our system of mass incarceration, our carceral system, and you look at debates around public safety and everybody, it just feels like they're just trying to race

to meet the Republican rhetoric, which is that like the way that you bring down crime is being quote unquote tough on crime. Like the only policy to make us safer safer is to just unleash like thousands more police to skyrocket police budgets like like that is the only answer when we know for a fact that there is not evidence there are there's very little to oftentimes no evidence that actually supports that those

policy responses actually make us safer. But there are other policy responses that do make us safer. Violence interruption programs, gun safety legislations, shootings in New York City are down 33 percent. And you would never know that from how all of this stuff is portrayed in media. But I feel like we need to portray that more because I don't feel like the messaging is amazing on the gains that have been made. We hear a lot of negatives. Yes. And we don't hear a lot of what's going on. So you might not hear that.

Yeah, exactly. And I think it's also because like a lot of folks want to shy away from that. They they and that's what I'm talking about. Like Republicans define the zone. And then Democrats kind of walk into this trap every time instead of being able to hold our own in the policies that we've passed. I mean, it's also lived experience, though, because if I hear shootings are down 36 percent, but every time I turn on the news, I see shootings, I'm hearing it in the street. I'm like, I don't believe that. Exactly. And it's also because like the zone is getting flooded with all this reporting that is not consistent. The volume of the reporting is really not consistent with with the volume of change that we're seeing on the ground. And that's when I think it's important to kind of talk about how media is not this like objective observer at all. It is an active participant

in our politics. It is. And I've seen it from day one. I mean, like the night that I was elected, I was actually laughing because I never saw this because like I was out. I was out in the Bronx. I didn't see all of the TV media coverage outside of local news that like that immediate night. And, you know, months later, someone showed me a clip from, I don't know, like like NBC or something like that. It was Brian Williams. And they showed this clip and he was like breaking news, this radical far left social. This is not Fox News. This is mainstream media. This is mainstream media.

Like five minutes after I was elected, the jig was up. Like it was in from the beginning. They saw what we were fighting for. They saw that we want to guarantee health care. They saw that we want public college to be tuition free in this country. They saw that we want to support a strong labor movement. to frame her as far left as the foil for what all the quote unquote moderate, even keeled, like, you know, more sensible, rational people are going to be pitted against instead of taking what we were saying seriously.

Right. And so and so like just like they played an active role there, they're playing an active role in like their decision to explode the coverage on crime in a way that is completely inconsistent and out of proportion with reality makes them an active participant. And social media as well, because they're not checking. I saw Twitter and Facebook is not trying to flag any type of misinformation that's going on amongst these elections. I saw you on Twitter going at it with Elon Musk. Are you planning to get off of there? I know you have a huge following on there, so it is important for you to give out the information that you need to. But at the same

time, are you like, I don't know about this platform anymore? I mean, I for me, it's going to be we're going to have to see you have a billionaire who decided he wants another toy in his sandbox. But it's very, you know, he's in a lot of trouble right now financially. Like he bought this thing for way more money at an overvaluated rate. And now he's going to end like he took on a lot of debt in order to buy Twitter. And he's he is now in a place where he is scrambling to figure out how to make more money out of this are you gonna pay eight dollars a month no why would I give a billionaire eight dollars no you're you're underestimating the stupidity of America they're absolutely going

to give that man eight dollars for a check for a verified check they're going to do it no not me now he said everything you say isn't accurate so how do we know what you just said was accurate? OK, so I would know. I mean, it's a it's a good it's a good question to ask, because a lot of people in my position do say like wrong things. I would say it's important to look at. It's important to dig into the numbers. So someone in my position, a politician, will make a claim, right? Murders are up or crime is up. Now, it's not enough to say,

okay, is crime up? And then, because from that objective analysis, people will say, yeah, but it's important to look into, like dig into like what goes into those numbers. Yeah.

Up from what? Up from when? A lot of people, it's up from 2020 into, like, dig into, like, what goes into those numbers. Yeah. Up from what? Up from when? A lot of people, it's up from 2020. And what type of crime? Like, a lot of the things that they're talking about, when they say crime is up, it's up from 2020 when we were all in our house and no one was outside. And so almost any level of crime is going to be higher than it was when we were all at home. And so there's a lot of statistics that are based on that. So, you know, when you look at some of the city shootings, when I talk about what's down,

I'm talking about recent statistics as of October of 2022. And we can look that up. New York City NYPD has a database called CompStat. You can look up things there. But then also I think it's important to follow actual experts in these fields and look at, I mean, you guys had Ola Yemi. Yeah, love her. And I'm a big fan of her work and what she does studying Rikers.

Rikers is in my congressional district. And so when you follow experts in these fields, they are able to kind of break down some of these numbers a little bit better for you. But if you're taking, if your primary source of statistics is a politician, you know, it's important. We need to cite our facts, but we also need to understand the space a little bit better, too. And, you know, I think one of the gifts of social media is that you don't have to be reading the news every single day to do that. I mean, that is one of the gifts of Twitter is that when you are following reputable people. Right. Reputable people.

And then get off of there and go look at other sources. And reputable people cite their sources. And usually there will be multiple sources. And so, like, that's really what we need to look at. We need to really bring in a lot more critical thinking into our environment because people will be out here saying anything, literally anything. That's right. When we say things like democracy is on the ballot or, you know, I like to say this country is fast approaching fascism. Can you break that down in Bronx terms?

Because I don't think I don't think I don't think people grasp what we're saying. I was I was saying the same thing, like when people say democracy is on the ballot or like our democracy is on the line. That does not communicate the point that we are at. And I think people the reason people use those terms is because they don't want to use that F word of fascism. They don't want to say that word because it sounds, quote unquote, alarmist. But they called us alarmist when we said that Roe v. Wade was on the precipice of being repealed. They said, oh, no, like you're overreacting. They said that we were overreacting when we said that we didn't believe Trump was going to acknowledge his loss in the election. They didn't take us seriously when we said that we were saying that

January 6th was going to be violent. And they didn't believe us. We have to use this word fascism. And what does fascism mean? There's like kind of an academic term of fascism, but then there's also the live reality. And in terms of this live reality, a lot of this is about really like our individual power getting taken away, period. And we see that in how it plays out, because when you look at who is funding the extreme right wing in this country, it's billionaires, billionaires. You have Elon Musk out here supporting and telling people to vote for a political party that will not acknowledge the results of an election. Why? Because once they get in power, they write the checks. They will let

the fossil fuel industry burn us to a crisp. They will allow the private prison industry to explode, which they did. And that also includes our carceral system, includes both our immigration carceral system and our domestic carceral system. I mean, it's really just about allowing all of this to go unfettered. And the way that they retain the political power to do that is by is by rallying this sense of white fear. And they say, in order to protect yours, you need to support us. Like the racism is a huge animating factor, but it also pays dividends,

which is why you see people, billionaires like the Mercers, why you see the Koch brothers. That's why you see Elon Musk. That's why you see all of these folks aligning with the right wing. Are you alarmed about this announcement that Donald Trump is set to make next week? I mean, alarmed like, yeah, I mean, I guess shocked. No, is I'm not shocked. Alarming.

It's always alarming. This person is this is a violent person. Like this is a violent person and he will do whatever it takes, including throwing his own vice president under the bus and potentially, you know, ending his life. Like on January 6th, these people were out here to hurt Mike Pence. And that was his own vice president. And he was just kind of out here like, what happens, happens. You know, this is a dangerous person who also is highly leveraged. We do not, we still do not understand his full financial picture. But it certainly seems like he is financially very beholding to a lot of

interests that are not the people of the United States. And he's going to do whatever it takes for him to come out on top. You think he'll be charged with anything? I mean, I think that the case is there. I think that the Department of Justice certainly would have a case on multiple charges, including obstruction of justice. And so whether they charge him or when they charge him is going to be significant. There's some speculation that the reason that he's trying to announce at this time is to avoid charges or try to complicate and delay the Department of Justice from issuing charges. I don't think the Department of Justice knows how to punish that level of privilege because, you know, that system is designed to protect that level of privilege.

It's true. It's true. I mean, there's there was a lot of time. So, I mean, how much time, months, if not over a year spent in discussing and wringing hands about can you charge the president of the United States with committing a crime or a former president with committing a crime? And even just the time it took to even resolve that question really speaks to how much impunity many positions of power have. And that trickles all the way down to even policing. Yeah. Because we still have qualified immunity

in this country. We can't even repeal that. I spoke to Michael Cohen and he said that, you know, I said if it was Obama, he would have been charged and everything.

He was like, no, it's because he's a president. Has nothing to do with race. I mean, I think that if Obama did the things that Trump did, I agree.

it would not be the same situation. I agree. It's also how Republicans act, too. Yeah. I feel like Democrats tend to be, you know, very kind of buy the books. I don't want to do this. I want to make sure we can work together.

Republicans are like, we're not working with y'all. That ain't working, AOC. That's not working no more. No, it's not working. It never worked. It never worked. And it's this idea that are like, we're not working with y'all. That ain't working, AOC. That's not working no more. No, it's not working. It never worked. It never worked. And it's this idea that like, you know,

like if we're just nice to them, here's what they do. They take whatever you give them and then they run with it. Like there's no, especially now. I mean, I think it's long been that way,

but especially now more than ever, like these are not people that are interested. And the people who do, the few Republicans that do reach out and do try to work with Democrats, they are immediately purged from the party. It's over. Yeah. What do you think about Nancy Pelosi and her husband? Because I feel like there's just not a lot of sympathy there for something like that that should have never happened. But that's alarming to me also yeah well i mean here's the thing is that it goes beyond sympathy right i mean first and foremost it is it's horrifying what happened to her and what happened to her husband and their family but what's not being discussed you know a lot of it

when it is being discussed it's like oh look at this terrible thing that happened to this woman and her family. Not, there was an attempted assassination for the person third in line for the presidency of the United States of America that was politically motivated and it, and was radicalized by Fox News and by right-wing circles. There is a major media outlet. There is a major news channel that is fueling political violence in this country. And we're acting like it's normal. It's not normal. Like I can tell you one hundred and ten percent. One of the largest sources of death threats that I get is Tucker Carlson. Wow. Every time that dude puts my name in his mouth the next day I mean this is like what stochastic terrorism is it's like this indirect

it's like we have when you use a very large platform to turn up the temperature and target an individual until something happens and then when something happens because it's indirect you oh, I had nothing to do with that. Tucker Carlson, God forbid anything happens. He plays a massive role in political violence. Like it comes on his doorstep specifically. Not I mean, it's not something happens. What do you mean to you or just in the country period? To me, to elected officials, any of his targets, because it's me, to elected officials. Any of his targets. Any of his targets.

Because it's not even just elected officials. He will target people that have, like... Other reporters. He will target journalists. But he will also target activists and advocates that do not have resources or an infrastructure of protection either. And it is extremely dangerous. This, he absolutely, and, you know, he was part of January 6th. Like, the violence that happened then,

he absolutely played a role in that. How do y'all protect yourself against that? Can you sue or? Well, as a public figure and elected official, you don't really get the same protections. So because like the the bar for libel is much higher, there's a lot that can be said in the in the public sphere. Right. Like just because someone says something bad about me doesn't mean I can go out and sue them. Even if someone lies about me, I can't really sue them. And that, I think, is part of what he uses as a shield. He knows that

that he is targeting a a legal class that really cannot issue consequence. And he uses that to drive an enormous amount of violence. And meanwhile, this dude cries like every time there's like someone around the corner that he feels like weird about, you know? But he does not know some of the, I mean. I'm sure he's going to use this on his show. Yeah, let him use it. I'm not going to say something to him directly.

Let him use it. Like, Tucker, come. Like, whatever like whatever you're gonna see meanwhile for you pardon you were saying meanwhile he cries every time someone's around yeah yeah i remember that because somebody put his address out there one time or something right yeah and but the thing is is like the thing is is that where it actually becomes crazy is that he drives so much of this violence and threat. But meanwhile, like I'm the one that has to pay for my own security as a consequence of his actions. Like I have to fundraise for my own safety. Like that's how raggedy this system is.

And so what happens if you speak up and you you can't fundraise for your own security? What like then you go into hiding literally in order to be safe, whether you go into hiding for a day or two days or a week. But then how much how much longer are we going to extend that? And this is when we like the the the clarity of what we are living in starts to come into relief, where people who are critical of systems of power have to go into hiding, where racial minorities are targeted to drive turnout. Because we know that targeting immigrants, talking about crime drives out turnout on the other side when we mischaracterize and play into stereotypes. When you have people who say,

no matter what happens to the results of the election, I will not accept it. I win. When you have DHS reports that just came out last week that showed that DHS was trying to like manufacture terrorism under Trump, like saying that BLM tracking people. I mean, this is what the seeds of a blooming fascist state look like. Yes. That's why we need to turn out this vote. I understand that, like, listen, not all Democrats are the same,

sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. And I understand it can just feel like a bunch of BS on your ballot. But for me, I would rather have an election than no election. And that's the direction that these folks want to take us to, no election, a one-party state. A true one-party state. That's why I actually enjoy listening to you because you say things that I feel like nobody else is saying out loud. Like everything you said, like political violence is a hallmark of fascism. We know this.

Like denying elections is a hallmark of fascism. But like you said, people are afraid to speak that word. Like they're not speaking to the urgency of the moment. Yeah. And so we try to use this kind of flowery language of like democracy's on the ballot but that doesn't no that doesn't connect like people don't know what that means democracy on the ballot of course it is i'm voting you know like it we have to paint the picture here and they do right like they are always painting these pictures of fear

and I'm not even saying that we vote out of fear but they are constantly creating these boogeymen for people to vote against and I don't again like I don't think that we rely on fear or drum up fear necessarily but I think we need to be clear about the stakes and I also think on the flip side that we should be clear about what we will do with power. You know, we get we send two more senators tonight and we hold the House. We're going to be able to codify Roe v. Wade in this country. Will they, though? I mean, President Obama said he would. He didn't do it.

Well, he didn't have a Senate that would. Well, he did in numbers. But, you know, usually for at least four months he did in numbers. Yeah. And so, I mean, well, that's the thing, is that he, he, the Democratic Party, I mean, this has always been, like, this is why I get in trouble, right? Because I talk about the conservatism of the Democratic Party

and that a lot of times it's been more conservative than people think. We did not have the votes to codify Roe v. Wade because Democrats did not support codifying Roe v. Wade under the Obama presidency. He may have, you know, President Obama may have, but he did not have like the Democratic Senate. You had Joe Manchin and you had a lot more folks like him now. Raphael Warnock, Ossoff, people in the toughest races, John Fetterman, people in the toughest races who have already said they're committed to passing Roe v. You know, codifying Roe v. Wade.

And so we get those. We're going to be able to do that. We hold the House. We're going to be able to do that. But we also need to engage people and be vocal about more because it is important that you don't just vote for any Democrat. Like we need to ask them, are you going to codify Roe v. Wade? Like are we have to we do need to press folks on the issues because if they're not clear, then they're giving themselves an out. But when we do the actual counting, we can get there. But, you know, it does it. It feels like it is this isn't even

about debating taxes anymore. This is like so far beyond that. And the fact that people's actual civil liberties and rights are on the line is another indicator that we are in this dangerous place in the country, in this country. I agree with you. And it's interesting that, you know, they've been saying that that messaging has been hurting Democrats, like Democrats have been focusing on things like the economy as opposed to, you know, abortion. What do you think about that? Well, you know, we have been pushing, especially progressives in the party, have been pushing for much more aggressive economic policy. But that requires tackling Wall Street. And I think it's funny because sometimes I think some moderate parts of the

party, it's like you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't fight against more aggressive economic policies when we're governing and then complain that we that we're not talking about economics enough when we're running for office. Right. Like we but we did do a lot of things, but we need to do a lot more. Like we were able to cap the price of insulin at thirty five to thirty five dollars a month if you're on Medicare, if you're insured. But what about people who are uninsured? Right. But we were able to also cap if you're on Medicare. But what about people who are uninsured? Right. But we were able to also cap if you're on Medicare, your prescription drug prices will not be more than two thousand dollars a year starting in January. We are in the House. We've passed a fifteen dollar minimum wage.

By this point, I feel like it needs to be twenty three personally. But we passed that. We've been able to and we passed the Inflation Reduction Act. And so we've been able we're we're creating nine million climate jobs in this country just on climate alone. We start doing that in August. But like if we want to run on economics, then maybe we stop trying to talk down the amount of student loan forgiveness that we're doing. Maybe we try to stop talking down, you know, like minimum wage. It was Democrats that voted against increasing some Democrats in the Senate that voted against increasing the minimum wage. So, you know, my recommendation is for folks that are trying to just like blame the left is the is like maybe you listen to the left we're trying to do things like expand health care and raise wages i got a couple more questions i know you got to go back in july people said you faked your arrest at the abortion hotel what was going on in that

situation no um i i have my summons i was arrested. When you're arrested, like, whether you are cuffed or not, it is standard practice, especially as an activist, that you put your hands back so that they don't get you for resisting or anything like that. And you're from the Bronx. You know the procedure. And I'm from the Bronx. And I represent from the Bronx. You know the procedure. And I'm from the Bronx. And I represent Rikers.

And I'm a woman of color. You know, like, I grew up in Stop and Frisk, New York City. Like, you don't catch any more charges than the one you're already catching. But I was arrested. I was processed. And, like, it's, you know, people call it performative or, you know, things like that. But there are consequences. Like if I leave office, I can't get I will have problems getting a security clearance again. Like there are real implications. It's not just that you quote unquote get arrested and you bounce and you pay $50 or whatever it is like there are now there's now precedent. And we know this as people of color where from the time you're 15,

you get stopped by the cops once. And then all of a sudden, like it's all up in your life. And so, you know, and it's not to equate those. I'm not saying that I'm equating my life with that, but it's to say that like it's it's not nothing. And for people who call activism performative, all activism has been performative in this country.

It is designed to create flashpoints of reaction and discussion. And we do need to talk about the fact that in states, women are and can be arrested for exercising their human right to bodily autonomy. That's right. We're not worried about your race. You got a 99% chance of winning. So give us a prediction for the country. All right. How do you think Dems are going to perform?

Well, I'll start in New York. If you're voting, if you haven't voted yet in New York, turn out. You can go to I will vote dot com to find your voting place, your polling place. And my recommendation is to vote along the Working Families Party line. New York, we're very lucky we have fusion voting. So if you vote for the you know, I'm a Democratic candidate and I'm a Working Families Party candidate. All of those votes funnel to the same candidate in the end. And the working, if you believe that the Democratic Party should be fighting harder and doing more for working people, vote on the WFP line and it sends that message. On one hand, I think people sometimes are being a lot more pessimistic than what is then like I think what may play out.

But I think just polling is so off. Like I see Joe Biden saying that we could lose the House and we could. Well, here's the thing. Right now, Democrats are projected or, you know, statistically supposed to, quote unquote, supposed to lose like 20 something seats. So there's a world where we outperform everything and still don't keep the majority in terms of polling. But also turnout right now is breaking a lot of projections. And, you know, who's breaking them in particular? Young people. Right. Young people that they always talk down on us.

They always call us naive. They always say that we don't turn out the vote. They always say that, you know, we don't show up. We're turning out in record numbers. And by 2024, millennials and Gen Z are set to outnumber in electorate people ages boom, you know, people, baby boomers and up. And so if we actually turn out and use this power, it's very possible that we could see a dramatic shift in our politics in two, three, four years if we can hang on to our democracy and so you know I think that a lot of the turnout numbers are breaking some of the early polling data and it's really important that we don't listen to polls as a determination for like oh it's it's not going to matter if I turn to me

it makes me feel like we gotta go we have to go when you're pessimistic and you're like this could happen it makes me feel more like I have to make sure that I go and that I tell other people to go. within one, two, three points out there. And what makes the determination is turnout. And when people turn out that aren't expected to turn out, that's literally how I won my race. Right, right. I won my race. My polls had me thirty five points like behind or down or at thirty five, you know, it's been a bit, but like there, I was down by, it was like 35 points. And the reason why the polling was so off and so broken in my race is because I turned out poor people. I turned out young people. I turned out working class people and I turned out black and brown people and I turned out you know young white folks too in a way that broke all of the models they don't count on us turning out and so yeah the polls gonna say we're gonna lose nothing's

gonna happen but what if you are a person that is usually counted out of our democratic process and you vote you break this system and you break what is predicted. Living proof. Yeah. And it wasn't just us. Then we went out and we did it again with Jamal Bowman. He overturned, Jamal overturned a 20 something year incumbent. That was one of the most powerful people in the House of Representatives. And we did it again and again and again. And so it's possible, but we need to like actually believe that we matter because we do. If there's a red wave, God forbid. How close are like the real one of the real fears here is that, you know, we have a Democratic president.

And so if we have a Democratic president and especially if we're able to have gains in the Senate or even hold on to the Senate, there's a limit in the bad things that Republicans can do, but they can inflict a lot of damage. They already said because spending originates in the House, they said that they will not authorize the debt ceiling, a debt limit which would be catastrophic for not just the U.S. economy, but the global economy. They will do that in order to cut Social Security and Medicare. But the real fear in terms of our democracy is whether they would certify the 2024 election, if it turns out in a way that if they don't win it, basically, that's the real fear here. And, you know, I know that there's legislation that has been coursing through Congress to try to beef up that protocol that was basically exploited on January 6th that let people believe in this delusion that Mike Pence had the power to, like, not authorize the election, which is just not true. But, you know, if that doesn't hold, then we have a very the immediate Democratic risk in small D or democracy is them not voting to certify any election that they don't win in. Wow. That's I mean, for real. And they've already indicated as such in places like Wisconsin and rhetoric like Carrie Lakes. Like they're saying it out in the open that you let us win this one time, then a Republican will never lose again.

That's right. And that's not because they don't actually, they didn't actually lose. Because they won't concede and it's because they will try to take things by force. And they have in the past. Say it with us, y'all. Fascism. That's why you got to go vote. Yeah. Yeah. For real. Right now. And then, you know, I talk about organizing the on season, the off season. Right. And the on season with elections. But what we do with those elections all also matter. And so, like, it's important for people to not only vote, but to also engage in a struggle of some kind, whether and anything that's important to you, whether it's housing and seeing if there's housing organizing, tenants unions that are forming in your area, whether it is criminal justice and whether it's, you know, like abolitionist organizing. I think it's important for people to engage in community. And at the end of the day, like that's our biggest long term defense of this is that when we engage in community, then it's a lot harder for these lives to travel the way that they do. We live in such an exploitative moment in history that

people are very isolated. And they're isolated because you got to wake up first thing in the morning, clock in, go to work, work one shift, two shifts, come back, sleep, eat, and you do it all over again. And there's no time to commune. And back in the day, like this was the labor movement's demand, eight hours for rest, eight hours for work, eight hours for what you will. And that what you will is when is that fabric. It's when you're in Girl Scouts. it's when you're in Elks Club meetings it was like all of that like kind of old-school stuff that we think about community

boards like engaging in community is one of our best defenses and so my recommendation to people is to really do that work. And like, it's not enough to be on Twitter. Like, who are you with in person? What are you building? And it could be literally anything. It doesn't have to be as political, quote unquote, explicitly political as people think it is. Like, even if you're just doing a food drive, even if you're just, you know, there's a lot of stuff that we do that people think isn't political, but it is. And when you engage in any sort of way, even volunteering, you're building that social fabric and you're inoculating yourself from that politics of division. Absolutely. AOC, thank you for joining us today. Of course. thank you.

I'm going to go vote now. Yes, let's do it. Polls open. They close at 9 p.m. in New York State. All right. It's AOC. It's The Breakfast Club. Thank you, everybody.

Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.

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