The Breakfast Club - Best of full interview: Mara Brock Akil Talks ‘Forever,' Black Love, Lessons From Storytelling, Girlfriends’ Movie + More

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

Best of 2025- Queens - Mara Brock Akil Talks ‘Forever,' Black Love, Lessons From Storytelling, Girlfriends’ Movie . Recorded 2025. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. She said, Johnny. The kids didn't come home last night. Along the Central Texas Plains, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad.

Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, The Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the shade is always shady is right here. Season 6 of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday. As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac were giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday.

Listen to reasonably shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes Shot Ready, a powerful, never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind. You have to find joy in the work you do when no one else is around. Success is not an accident. I'm passing the ball to you.

Let's go. Steph Curry redefined basketball. Now he's rewriting what it means to succeed. Order your copy of the New York Times bestseller, shot ready. Today at stephencurrie book.com. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Atria Health Institute in New York City.

I'll be talking to top researchers and clinicians and bringing vital information about midlife women's health directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause. Even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? Listen to Decoding Women's Help with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. We were in the car, like a Rolling Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what?

What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories on my 13th season of Family Secrets. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Whether it is getting swatted or just hateful messages online, there is a lot of harm and even just reading the comments. That's cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester on the Therapy for Black Girls' podcast. Every season is a chance to grow, and the Therapy for Black Girls podcast is here to walk with you. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, and each week we dive into real conversations that help you move with more clarity and confidence.

This episode, we're breaking down what really happens to your information online and how to protect yourself with intention. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Wake that ass up. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody, it's DJNV. Just hilarious. Salomey Nagar. We are the Breakfast Club.

La Rosa is here as well. And we got a special guest in the building. The legendary. That's right, Ms. Mara Brock Akeel. Welcome. Thank you. Good morning. Good morning.

Nice to be here. How are you? Bless Black and highly favorite. How's your energy? It's great. Okay. I'm really, I'm floating. How does it feel to have yet another hit TV show?

Another. Another hit TV show. show but this is global this is like the first time I have been on a stage this big normally my shows are on up-and-coming networks so I'm I feel like an ingenue actually I feel I feel both veteran and both I'm also an awe you know it's just this an idea is a global conversation that is kind of I'm sitting in that mostly my career I've been thinking about a national conversation but this is a global one and I I mean I've always known that our stories are global but for it to be a

reality it's pretty special and another hit right to be at it 30 years in the game 30 years in the game I love let's talk about it of course for people that are just tuning in you created shows like girlfriends the game being Mary Jane you've written on the Jamie Fox show and so many others but this one Moesha, Mo to the, so many. South Central. Oh, see. So many. I see you. This one's on Netflix.

Yeah. Yeah. This one's on Netflix. Yeah. So how did the Netflix play come together? We're doing forever. Well, I had a deal. You know, my career did garner me a really wonderful deal. Out of that deal, I did stamp from the beginning. I hope you guys all saw that amazing documentary that Roger Ross Williams directed, but about

Dr. I'm sorry about the racist lives. I mean, the myths of racism. That was my first offering in my deal. And this was the second. It took a minute, strikes and executive changes and whatnot. It took a minute to get this one out. But it was special from the beginning. I met Judy Blume, somebody else's, come on, come on.

Two of my favorite storytellers coming together. Come on. I mean, and that's God. Absolutely. First of all, I didn't even realize that the book was going to be 50 years old. by the time we released. It was not even in my thinking of that time. Yeah, it came out of 75.

75. But yeah, it took us a minute to get it out, but we got it out. And so when Netflix heard that my take on her story, she was about, they were like, we are about that too. So it was a beautiful synergy. One thing I will say about Netflix, when they're behind something, they are behind it, completely supported, resourced. I think that's what's important to me in this.

this moment of this hit show is that it was my vision was supported financially and and also the episode five we went to the vineyard taking your crew across the country in the middle of production that is another level of support and in a place that the infrastructure is not there thank you so much yeah so it was it was amazing to feel like wow I'm supported got money to have the vision that I want and to get the people that I need, the collaborators, it's been amazing. So short answer, is Judy Blume

is Mara Brock and Kiel, Netflix wanted all of that. When we approach Netflix, do you approach it differently? Because you know, what a lot of the shows that we spoke about is you have to wait for next week, right? So it's almost like you can't wait. You schedule it, you write it down. Well, Netflix, a lot of times, it's a lot differently

because everything is right there smacking. You can binge watch. Yeah. At your own leisure. Yeah. Correct. You know, that's, I think that's what I'm thankful for to know how to make television and be able to stretch the canvas differently given different circumstance. And so my job is to keep those, keep you on those eight episodes. I learned that back in the day when we used to have to do cliffhangers for the season like, you know, during girlfriends or even Moisha, we had to get you watching for the end of the season or if there

was a break in the middle of the season. So I learned how to craft that. Shout out to my mentor. I'm always going to shout out my mentor, Ralph Farquhar. I learned how to make TV. that way how to keep you engaged how to keep that binge going um so i understood that but it also was it was also sort of just a fun way to play in their sandbox how do you win on their with their rules and so that was for me as a creative is wonderful but there's an like that athlete spirit in me like i want the ball yeah yeah yeah yeah right i'm like i want the ball let's go so that was fun to figure out. You said Judy Bloom was your first permission slip

as a storyteller. Oh, my goodness. So how does your inner child feel knowing that you have done such justice to one of her iconic work? Well, how does my inner, she feels on Cloud 9. She is twirling. She is cartwheel. I used to cartwheel back in the day. I could cartwheel backband, all the things. She's

doing all of that. I'm very proud of myself. It was interesting because my body of work or I approach my work, I don't ever, I never saw myself as needing IP. I'm like, I'm full of stories. I'm full of original story. So, but when the opportunity to reimagine one of her books, there was no thinking.

My hand just went up. And I feel like it was a little protective as well. It was like, I want to protect that story. I want to be able to tell that story. But my little girl is like, she's, she cabbage patching. Does she feel like she made it? Do you feel like you made it about it? She's felt like she's made it a long while ago.

Okay. I think this is different in that it's a full circle moment. I feel, I often say that you become a writer as a reader first. And so I used to get lost in the pages of Judy Blum. And so for me to be just the divinity of it, like the divineness of it, that I would come full circle 50 years later, like those kinds of things, right? It's almost like it was written for me. It was written for me and Judy.

Matter of fact, I'm going to get a chance to meet her personally. I'm so excited. Is you going down to Key West? Yeah, I am. Yeah, I am. You live this life once, and I'm going to live in that dream. So, yeah, I'm excited to meet her. We met at the time on Zoom and talked on the phone and emailed,

but just to meet her and say thank you and have her sign my book. I'm just, that 12-year-old girl is running to Key West. I've done it a couple times. Yeah. Just to go meet Ms. Blue. Absolutely. I love it. Yeah, just to, you know, that's what I really would love is,

for people to honor more of their story, the craftsmanship, sitting in the chair and writing, that woman sat in the chair and wrote, I mean, like, it's like she never got out of the chair, just writing and that and what it would do, just someone sharing the story, just my own testimony, is it ignited something in me. And I think that even the feedback I'm getting from the show, not just the show, but the shows I've had in my career, it has ignited other storytellers. and I want us to do more by that. We have so many stories in us that will die in us if we don't even start crafting them and writing them down.

And I appreciate, like, social media and we can do things, video and content. I get that too, and that's a beautiful expression, but to literally craft story from a writing perspective, to have those layers of theme and complexity and understanding that her book is still, through this show now is still it still lives

it's universal it's it's forever but I did there the original book was written in the 70s yeah 75 why did you choose to specifically set this story in 2018 well I had to look at what would make it fresh today and what to maybe have to look at

what where the kids are today and Judy and I talked about well, they know a lot about sex. Like, there's so much, you can just hit Twitter, hit, hit whatever. But there's no Twitter anymore, you get the point. But intimacy, connection, those things, I think we're further away, even though we're more technic, I can't get this word out, technologically advanced.

We don't have, though these tools are meant to connect us, we are using them in very disconnecting ways. And I think that to bring the phone into the conversation, one is an opportunity to talk about something unique to this culture. Yeah. I mean, excuse me, culture, but this generation, excuse me, what it is doing to them personally, emotionally, their emotional self, their, and then how it's even affecting their physical self?

And then affecting their future. And that's what the book was about. How do we explore our emotional self, our physical self, while maintaining a healthy future? and this is my conversation today. Also between, I also want to talk about in the black family by changing the white family to black, it allowed me to also talk about a time

that I think is very important for us to document between Trayvon Martin's murder and George Floyd's murder. We as black people, we as black families, as mothers and fathers, we were screaming into a vacuum about the fear over our children. And there was no amount of fancy zip codes or education that can save your child, you know. And that was scary. And I wanted, I needed a place for me as a mother to release all of that fear.

And then also then look at how much we are out of love, but we are raising our children from that fear. That's right. And how that is hurting our children and their inability to have a natural right. of passage to explore, again, their emotional self, their emotional maturity, their physical self, their physical maturity to have sex or not have sex, who to have it with, what's the right conditions, all of those choices that they're supposed to be making right now to protect the beautiful future. And that's another thing. We need to open up some space because our children also need a future. And it's tough out there. And I couldn't imagine being them today.

thinking about what do you want to be what you grow up well what's out there and so and we adults need to get it together and so this is a part of my my offering when i was when the book so back in the 70s it was controversial because of the things that it explored today it's not controversial because we are so open like what you talk about when you were crafting like what the storyline would be and how you would redo it were there things that you were like i want to make sure i get to or make sure i get in this storyline because you also made it feel closer to home for like black teens. Like, now forever it feels like it's our story, but you had to do it a different way.

You know, I think it's controversial? Black male vulnerability. It's just, there's no room for it. I think there's no images for it. And yet when I'm looking in the world within my own children, their friends and the community beyond that, a lot of boys and more specifically black boys, they're not all that hard. You know, they don't have any room for their complexity. They don't have any room for their feelings.

Like it's always funny to me, especially by the group of boys that I'm around. They're all privileged. They live a great life. Time to take a picture. They were laughing two seconds ago. You're trying to take the picture and then they get that stoic face. What you mean mugging for? Like, you know, and you realize how much that's imparted on young black boys all the time about what is manly.

What are those images of what a man is? And I wanted to make room for their real reflection. I'm actually looking at the real thing. It's just what gets on that bigger screen and how important it is. I know we talk about representation matters. That's why it matters. You've got to see yourself in order to decide, is that beautiful? Is that how I want to look?

You know, is that right? Is that tight? You know, you can't see it. And I think, I also think boys, and working on this project, it made me look at something I hadn't looked at before. I think boys are getting their heartbroken a lot sooner. I felt so bad for adjusting the whole time. Why?

Because I just felt like some of the things that they were experiencing, like, I mean, I remember being that age and going through, like, my first, like, relationship things, but I don't know, it just felt like a lot of times the characters, they were yearning for this, like, space of, like, I don't know, to just be okay and then things would be going good, and then something else would happen to be something small. It would be, like, for Keisha, like, the video gets sent to her phone and she's finally in this relationship.

You know what I mean? Like, things were. just like happen and I'm like they're in kids like why can't they just be and not to deal with these things it's life yeah it's life and it's also technology yeah we didn't have we got some freedoms without you know that they don't they're not afford it and so that's what I want to talk about it's like are we making any room for them like one of the things that I love when we every production meeting I said we're making an epic and intimate love story within a love letter to Los Angeles right and what that meant to me is that we need to see them in

scope and scale and epic I need to see them their bodies in the space in Los Angeles what that means is that they it's a feeling cinematically that I'm making you feel that they belong here and when they belong here they belong to us and so

you would engage with our children differently psychologically emotionally those things are important in our image on the details the details on anyone makes them feel more human to you so I want to make just room for their humanity so that we think about the measures around technology.

We think about what the rules are for these kids. I mean, these kids are being told today that you make one false move. You won't get a scholarship. I mean, come on. It's the truth. They follows them for the rest of their lives. For the rest of their lives. And that, where is any room?

There's no humanity in that. That's how I felt. Maybe that was the, yes. At the humanity part, I'm like, yo, she's young. She made a mistake. Yeah. Now it's following her. And it's like, he's in love.

And he just doesn't know how to navigate. and now he feels like he's not a good person or not a good person he doesn't feel like he can win the girl in the beginning of things and I felt bad for that like but you know what back in the day back in the day boys had to walk across the room to ask you to dance and that was tough and that was and that was had you ever have you ever done that of course yeah how did you ever get rejected no I've never got rejected you know because I'll be honest I only went when I knew I was was going to be received.

If I knew I was going to get rejected or there was a 50-50 chance, I wasn't going to try. Because remember, it wasn't, you know, back there, it was a party and everybody standing on the wall. And you have, like you said, you have to walk across.

And if I knew this person wasn't feeling me, didn't weaken me, didn't have a crush of me, didn't write me a letter? Did it hold a stair? Didn't hold a day? I wasn't going. But if I knew that I got that little stare,

that little smile, I was going to go. So it was a Dominican girls. But see, all of those social cues that you have to learn in real time, we're not learning that. There's no space for that. So I'm advocating for, I want the kids to be back outside.

Like, it's even sad we shot on Fairfax Avenue, right? It's a ghost town right now. But back in 2018, where it was depicted, that was a place for them to be. But there's, we are, where are kids allowed to be? But that's why I love the scenes at Martha's Vineyard. I love the scenes at the prom. Oh, gosh. Especially at the prom, because I feel like in that moment, Justin was, you know,

everybody talks about he's chasing the young lady. to me it felt like he was chasing his blackness. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for seeing that. Yeah. You know, one of the things we're trying to say, trying to keep our children safe, sometimes we're isolating them. He had a pretty prison, but it was up on a hill, isolated, and he's looking for more, but I can also understand, Don, she's so scared to put him outside, you know, also scared is he going to measure up to where they are? You know what I'm saying?

She's probably not saying that, but that psychologically, it's kind of under there. But fun fact, I was so proud as a producer to put all those black and brown kids taking over the Santa Monica Pier. I don't, you know, I found one of the location. I think that's, I think the last time someone took over the pier at that scale was Tom Cruise. I was like, okay.

But that means something to me. That means something that we, how we take up the space, the epicness and the beauty of us. These kids are looking like this all over. country and we see it on Instagram or TikTok or things like but to put it on that scale that level of beauty Anthony Hemingway directed his butt

off in that you know the kids were just beautiful our costume designers amazing our production design was amazing our cinematography was amazing you know what I'm saying we had the thing lit up I was on cloud 9 that day that we shot and we got it out of their safe

and sound that's also important but it's our kids having space in the world chasing themselves figuring out who they are including of their blackness, including of their, you know, what they like, just who they are, even making room for, I know

I get a lot of comments around. Wow, he likes Narto. Yeah, a lot of black kids love Narto. You know, we're a part of the world, so that was fun. And as much as it's a story about the kids, it's a story about the adults, right? Like the way Judy Blume made people feel seen at 13, it feels to me like

you're making us feel seen at 40, something 50 something so what do those ages need that nobody's writing about i'm going to keep saying this over it just more complexity more more of our human side like i don't i you know i have said before i i don't you know i don't really believe in positive images i think they can be just as damaging as negative images what do you mean expound on that yeah break that down because okay so the negative image is is a product of a lie, going back to the documentary. Like, it's the perpetuating the lies and the myths of us. That's been out there.

So a lot of black people want a positive image because they want to rewrite the wrong of somebody else's view of me. But what that does as an artist, it keeps me behind the eight ball. I'm chasing up and trying to clean up somebody else's mess. I'm from the Zora Neal Hurston School of Thought. I know my people. I see my people. I want to be able to talk about them fully.

And in the spectrum of our humanity, there is light and dark. We are not perfect. To be perfect, that's just as hard to be perfect as it is to be bad. Like I want the spectrum of my humanity. I want to be able to make a mistake and have my village patch me up

and put me back out there. I deserve that. You deserve that. We deserve that. And so I want the spectrum of who I am. And sometimes I'm, you know, sometimes I'm not. great and sometimes I am in the same day in the same hour and I deserve that that sort of

exploration of who I am as a human being and I give that to my characters I think dawn for instance you know people there's a lot of conversation about her as a mother but that black mother has raised a lot of kids to get them to keep them alive does she deserve looking at herself yes is my hi my name is mara brockin kill and I'm a former dawn I put my pain on the screen. I think, you know, I wanted to, out of love, I'm trying to overprotect my children. And rightfully so. Yeah, but you end up, well, she ended up raising her child out of fear and not love. And that's a question I always ask because I feel like my father raised me out of fear and not love. Not meaning that he didn't love me. Yes. Oh, they love. And the kids know that.

The kids know that they love, but it still feels constrained. But that dynamic was amazing though. The way you had done, you know, being the overprotective parent who was raising her son out of fear and not love, but then the father, Wood Harris character, was, you know, high, high emotional IQ, you know, very vulnerable, soft with his son in a way that we don't really see on TV, especially between black men and, and between black men, period. You know, that was incredible. Thank you. I really, first of all, shout out to Wood Harris and Karen Pittman.

Thank you. I love those roles. You couldn't have cast it any better. No. I mean, oh, my God. I mean, as soon as we met Lovey and Michael and put them. together it was like come on chemistry off off the jump their chemistry was amazing um karen and woods you know I did want to depict two types of black families that are that

we that we recognize right but speaking about the Edwards for a moment it just shows you the need to have two partners in a home just the balance of it all absolutely I think that Eric could be that because he has such a solid foundation in dawn, you know what I'm saying? And vice versa. You know what I feel like he had, his emotional maturity is how much he is loved also by her. And so I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about Tennessee's Attorney General is suing a Nashville doctor.

In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant.

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause. It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that, one, they have dementia, and the other one is, do I have ADHD?

date. There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now. You know the shade is always shady is right here. Season six of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Giselle Brian and Robin Dixon is here. every Monday. As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives of Potomac were giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back. So come be reasonable or shady with us each and every Monday. I was going through a walk in my neighborhood.

Out of the blue, I see this huge sign next to somebody's house. Okay. The sign says, my neighbor is a Karen. Oh, what? No way! I died laughing. I'm like, I have to know you are lying. Humongous, y'all.

They had some time on their hands. Listen to reasonably shady from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets. We were in the car like a rolling

Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is choose an identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets.

Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The moments that shape us often begin with a simple question. question, what do I want my life to look like now? I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford. And on therapy for black girls, we create space for honest conversations about identity, relationships,

mental health, and the choices that help us grow. As cybersecurity expert, Camille Stewart Gloucester reminds us, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us. And so what we find is a lot of black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain. Each week, we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose. Whether you're navigating something new or returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow, and I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we were one of the longest running sitcoms with the black cast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled the joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black.

All black people know about the look. On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And he can allow for her fear in a moment like this.

Keep in mind, he's also aware of. her worries about her children wearing a hoodie. So he understands and boys and he understands how assertive she is and he knows all that stuff about her and that's a lot of my backstory when I'm writing those characters and how much. And it's and it is irritating in parenting when you have

different approaches at a very crucial moment when now the kids can talk back. You know, when they're younger it's a little you know it's a little easier on the parenting different dynamics sometimes but um the stakes being high right these these children are about to be out of the house those things get a little bit you know we all react a little differently well talk about the importance of that i think we miss that a lot uh we've seen it a lot more with my parents but i think in these days people don't i don't think care to really respect a two-parent household it just seems like it's it's very loose and people forget about what it means to kids and how important that is well it's just another witness to the

you know to the witnessing in a lot of ways like um you know one of the things i in my own parenting i used to get frustrated about why the kids seem to act up a little bit more with me than they did with their father and i was like and i would complain this lame all the time and then later i realized wow what a privilege it is that your children are the safest with you to act the you know what out you know and you're just like oh I am the safest place in the world for them to be to just show their and when you realize that honor it's like oh okay so then how can I then how can I just be fortified you know in order to take those moments right when I realize then I feel like the father or the second parent is the first bridge to the outside world and how needed that

role is because they kind of you know they they they rise up a little bit they you know they act they act a little bit better for dad you know sometimes and in the case of our home right and so there's a bridge to that emotional maturity that they can move through and then then you drop them off at somebody's house and they come back your kid is amazing they did this they did that and you're like also you do know how to ask and that and that That just rhythm, and then sometimes, you know, when I would be upset about things, I did have someone there to tell me, or you're fine, they love you. You're tripping a little bit.

You're just relax a little bit. But that level of care, that level of the dance between the parents and the child is actually beautiful when you finally settle down into it and get into the roles. They're just roles and it's okay to, it's okay to lean into them. And then there's sometimes that, like, I get things that they don't get. I get not just the acting out. I get those, I get those intimate details, you know? I get those real when they're really, really safe and they're telling you things.

You're like, oh, shoot, I'm trying to remember it so I can go back and tell. Don't tell dad, don't tell dad. And some things you don't for a while, you know. Well, so my wife will say, well, I'm going to tell dad, but he's not going to judge. You're not going to trouble. or, you know, some things, but I have the most difficult time with really being understanding, right? And the reason being is, it's similar to what you just said. Like, my wife will yell at my kids every day, right?

For something small, I yell once a week. Yes. And it's the worst thing ever. And I'm like, well, mom yells at you all the time. The mom doesn't yell like you. It's the same yell. But they feel like mom is that safe place. They can open up.

They can be comfortable. But dad is the barrier to the outside world. To barrier to the outside world. And to see that. And then on Keisha's side, being, you know, having a single mother, right, how much you need a village. So she's very resourced in, you know, the Edwards were more resourced financially. They got nannies and housekeepers and stuff. She's got the village.

She's got cousins. She's got her grandfather, her dad. And then we, that was purposeful. We revealed that the dad's been around. We just, he's not physically there all the time and he's not carrying his complete share, but he is present. Your friend is an ass. I just want to say that. Your friend over there is an ass.

He is an ass. Your friend is an ass. I will just say that everybody is represented in this show. Okay. You get on my nerves. What's the most uncomfortable truth you had to face to write forever, honestly? Just, you know, you'd like to think that you're an amazing mother. Just with my shortcomings as a mother.

I think when I acknowledge that I think not only my children and then our community, community of children need more space. I had to look at where I was allowing that. I think that was uncomfortable. I think the other part was the depiction of getting into the nitty-gritty around these, like, the sex tapes and then the betrayals that are happening with these children whose brains aren't fully defunctioned yet and making bad. Wanted to make sure I protected Keisha by also allowing the truth to be told.

you'm saying, and the way it is experienced and it can be the outcome. You know, even, and it's, and he's, he made a horrible choice. I actually think Christian is not, I don't, I don't, I know he, he messed up royally, right? But I also think that there's room for him, but I know that people are like, no. I was so, when he came back into this, not, I was, I was, I was like, why did, why is he back and around and all these things and she's dealing with so much stuff right now we don't make and that's the thing too i've seen grown women not make great decision you know what i'm saying and we just put all this pressure she's 16 you're young and we're trying to negotiate a lot one of the things

that um i was trying to arc out with the kisha character is what would it be like to be invisible at a pw i for most of your life not think not be reflected back that you are beautiful and then the first time you get attention from the baller you know what I'm saying who is how are we making those decisions how are we making those choices to be seen to be loved to be cared for in a time when speaking about sexuality especially that period and on young women are saying hey I have sexual urges I mean girls need love too they're they're the ones leading sometimes the blow job conversation they're like we can do so you're in this world that some things are really okay to do and just trying to negotiate all of these things um it's she made a she she made a bad choice he made a bad choice everybody's trying to impress somebody trying to these kids are managing a lot and then the the public record of it and the forever record of it is very hard to live with so i think that faith, your question was what's some of the hardest things,

trying to be honest about the times and honest about why people are making the choices that they are making, even when you are, I know there's not a lot of compassion for the Christian character, and I'm aware of that. And that was a very tough choice to make, trying to make it as honest and grounded as possible so that it can be the thing. in the middle of this love story that they actually move through. What's great to me about

the Justin and Keisha is that they both come from love. They know it. It may be a little complicated. It may not be ideal in times, but they know they're loved. And what's beautiful is to watch two young people choose love from having been loved. And I think what's beautiful for us as a community,

especially family, especially parents, is our ability to witness our children's choices while they're still in our home. What's also happening in society, they're calling it late bloomer. I think that's the new term. I mean, young people are not even getting to feel desired until they're like, damn, they're 30.

They're not even know, like, that reciprocal, like he like me, I like her. Well, they got to go outside. You got to get off social media for that, I think. There's that, too. And then, and that's the other layer we're putting on it. We go outside, but some of our kids and some, you know, that's, I wanted to talk about putting our kids in private white institutions. They go through most, there's a, there's an upside, right?

You're trying to give them the best education, set them up for the best, you know, future. But the consequence a lot to that is they're not being seen. That social, that social, they don't feel beautiful. They don't feel handsome. They don't feel important. There's nothing with marrying them back oftentimes. And that's what I feel like everybody. That, so that, that, so when you say they have to get outside, they are outside.

Doesn't matter. He should go to that party in the series and Justin tells her that she's beautiful or gorgeous and she stops. And I'm like, I mean, but to your point of what you just said, they're like the only black kids. Yes. So for her to hear that from him, it probably was a whole different type of your gorgeous or your beautiful, whatever he had said to her. But I didn't even think about that point of it. I just thought it was just her first time interacting with a boy she liked. Yeah.

You know, yeah. There's not enough to sort of like. And it may be that maybe other kids like. them but maybe they're conditioned not to for race reasons or things of that nature but I don't know that our kids sometimes they're outside but they're not always connected that's why we've spent a lot of time and money trying to get to the vineyard but it's that's two weeks yeah yeah that's two weeks but it's funny that you said it that's you know my daughter had the same problem and I wanted her

to go to a HBCU because of that I went to Hampton and she didn't she went to great schools a lot of white kids but nobody ever approached her yeah so she didn't feel beautiful she didn't feel away and then when She should be happy that nobody there approached her. No, no. Don would be very proud. No, but the problem is she never felt that love. Exactly.

So she was a little depressed. She felt like she wasn't as beautiful as she is. And then when she finally, when she went to NYU, there's no campus. So she felt even worse. And then COVID hit. So now if you, you know, Manhattan, Manhattan is your campus. So there is no campus. So you're going to venues and clubs with everybody.

And that made me nervous because now she's not well equipped. Yes. And thank God she found somebody that did find. But at first... A black man, too. Yeah. Yes, yeah. But at first, she was...

No, you have to say that because y'all kids are going to very nice school, so it might not always be a black kid. Yeah, but, you know, it was very difficult. But I felt guilty about that for years because I was like, am I setting them up for failure? Am I setting them up for somebody not to love them? Because I went to a black school. I lived in a black neighborhood.

So I'm seeing love all day long, and she didn't have that feeling. She didn't have those friends, which is probably why she's so close to me now, and I'm kind of like her best friend. Like, we go out and, we do things like right now she just texts me dad what time are you coming home and she's 23 years old but it's just that relationship but it gave me a guilt as a parent it's funny you ask me what I have to face that's that that there's I know we make choices for a certain reason but you're thinking ooh what you know my kids are fine but also that's what you've moved

through when you're just trying to give them the world the best education the best the best you can give them and you realize oops I miss that part so they are getting outside and in L.A. specifically, you know, these kids don't want to draw it. Like, I was at the DMV like at 9 a.m. on my birthday. They are not. So, I mean, that's what it's, so how are they even seeing each other?

That goes back to where are the spaces. I was at the skating rink. I was at this. There was, I was at the mall. I was here. That's not happening that much anymore. And so I, that concerns me as well. So I'm hoping that some of these images on the

show makes people want to connect, get outside, be back outside. I think we need that. I mean, but you know the beauty of it is. Let me get a damn question. Everybody. Mr. Kiel, how the whole town knew about the sex tape,

but he's your mother? Well, it's funny. That's why we were in LA that's why I did above the 10 and below the 10. Certain communities can know it and hold it and let you know it when they feel like it. But below the 10, she was able to keep

that she was able to keep that going. And that shows the disconnect of the village. There was no parent from those communities that thought to call Shelley. That is all, you know, that's the other thing I did make a commentary on that being a black parent sometimes in these schools, you're a parent, but are you really a part of the community sometimes?

And now, I'm not saying it's 100% like that, but sometimes that's where things do part, you know, when there is judgment or maybe not, Maybe that's the right, wrong word. When there's not real community, when there's not real connection, when there's not real care, that you're just seen as a part of this, like a sprinkle on top to our communities. And I say that in a generality,

I think there's certainly some families who are figuring that out. So it's not, these don't come from me that we can't figure that out. But what I've also noticed in these communities is sometimes, I mean, in these worlds. because Shelly's from a different economic bracket she doesn't live anywhere close to where these communities are she's further away from the information and it took Don to find out to bring it back to her

you know black love has been so commodified lately right like I feel like you know you see people doing the matching outfits on the gram or you know they have black love weddings but what makes forever feel real and not curated I would ask you what did what did you feel that I actually saw myself I saw me and my wife you know I saw my teenage daughter and her her friends I saw how I mean it's a little simple things like the conversations they was having it to cookout like arguing about you know Kanye yeah yeah yeah smoking the weed and then the kids come and they try to put it out but you know

they dance into their own music I just felt like that's just real aesthetics that's what real black love and black relationships look like and even things like you know not arguing it or trying not to argue in front of the kids or even if you and the you and your significant other disagree not showing that in front of the child it was times of wood would be like yo yeah and then she would know and then he would say what he said or vice versa and i just i just thought that was powerful yeah thank you i just be paying attention to my own life my life around me um just paying attention to us i think that's my job as a storyteller you know nina Simone says I'm here to reflect the times for me to look at us look at each other and find all those I know about your guilt because I have it and I have my own you know I know about these things I know about how how be loved by a black man who can be very strong in his opinions but it's not intimidating is that you know he might feel intimidated to the world but he's not intimidating to me that's right you know I know there's love there and also and he knows I'm strong black A strong black woman.

She's got an opinion. I'm going to say something. I can say it without losing my softness. I want your kids to bring home a black significant other. Yeah. Not because of racism, but because you want somebody that understands, you want somebody that's going to understand you and what you go through.

And protect you. And protect you. And protect you. That's what I mean, think at the core of a parenting, we want to love our kids and we want our kids loved and we want them protected. We want them safe in the world.

And so, you know, our history will tell us that it just seems like the odds are better that way. Well, first, to bring home the black significant other, when Dawn, she's upset. And Justin doesn't have his phone or whatever. But then at one point, she's open to him getting back into the world and having a phone or whatever because Wood Harris is like, you know, he met a girl, like, you know, he's up on him a little bit.

When they had that conversation, when she finances down with him and she's trying to, like, get in his business about who he's dating and who the person is, as a mom, yourself personally, what did you put into that conversation that you do with your own kids when you're trying to enter into their world and make sure that even though they're at the white schools and all these things,

the blackness is still there without being like, you got to be black because she was very like soft but she was also, it was obvious she wanted him to be with a black girl. We just talk real. You know, we've always just been honest with our kids from the jump, from their level of understanding.

You know what I'm saying? Using their language for their entry into the conversation. you know being very honest why I mean why I want you to be

with a black woman you know even though that could be challenging even though it's like I can yeah you can date whoever you want to date this is going to be your life but I'm going to tell you why and I just why I think it's beautiful I just think I just give my opinion

but make room for theirs I think that's what's important for me to make room for theirs for for so I use that I've used you know it's funny because even the music

I think one of the things music is a big part of the show and it's funny in my car I let them have the ox Why do you want to stay hip-hop? I just want to know I just want to witness them I want to know what they're thinking about

so every like fourth you know if you get like a Spotify account and you don't you do like the base you got to get a commercial like every four songs so in my car you get a lecture every four songs and we used to debate about okay if I don't let you eat McDonald's all the time because of XYZ I need you to understand what these lyrics are doing what you're eating and so he's like mom it's just

the beat it's just the beat well no it's more than beat so we've talked about that they push back so we talked about misogyny and things like that he was like well the women some of the female rappers I said yeah massagity is not particular to one group of people it's massagy it's like you know racism is racism it's it's so we get to talk to your kids and find out who they are and um and give them your point of view while the world gives them gives them their point of view and so i think if you remain a trusted place they're going to hear your voice god willing they will hear it before they get themselves in any type of danger or you know that kind of thing but i feel like um just giving them my opinion what emotional

and then showing my life you'm saying living my life you know um like even like with even like your career paths or your future path teaching them how I recognize that I'm a writer I remind it how did I know that I was a writer how did I know what my path was teaching them those things what it's going to feel like in your body what it's going to look like how you're going to act you know when it's going to take discipline where is the sacrifice in these ideas you know what even like you know yes mom and dad we we made a lot of money but understand we're built on a legacy let's go back to grandma and granddad and grand grandparents and let me tell you where you came from this is you know us owning more than one home is not new to this family it happened

over here understand that understand so you got to give them history opinion knowledge show it be it um you know even when we talk about dreams I talk about my dreams I still got and so and dreams take resources so are you going to hit that basketball train or not because I could use that money I want you to stay there for a second like how is your own evolution spiritually emotionally as a mother how does that influence the writing of forever oh completely so my writing styles I tend to muse off of I find a muse I tell the truth through fiction I'm a journalism major I went to Northwestern shout out to Northwestern office I'm always going to shout out.

I love Northwestern. One of the best stories I've ever made. I went to Medill. So a lot of my approach to a story, I start to lock in on, they'll be a muse. And then I open up to see what is happening in the zeitgeist. What is happening at strong sociology classes? Like, where are we at as a people? I was trying to figure out where the teenagers were.

Where are we at today? So my children were my muse because that's what I was concerned about. about. So I came into this project just as a concerned mother. My guilt, am I doing this right? Am I given enough space? Did we pick the right schools for them? Did we set up our life in a way that's really going to support them as you start to think about the more complexity parts of their life? And life was changing fast because of technology as well, right? So that's where I was at the same time that the Judy Blume opportunity came. And that's where my big bang happens.

And that's how I put those. So I'm musing off of my own parenting. I started therapy because of parenting. I realized, you know, you're an amazing mom, but I was like, I need to feel like a better mom. So let me start unpacking some of the things, all the things that therapists take you through. And so I started doing that and realizing. how I was parenting from a catastrophic place of fear, not just because of the times, but just all the things.

And you realize, okay, I need to let this go in order to be a better mother. And I think the best way I can do that is offer it in my work and mirror myself and allow, and I think that's the power of storytelling. When you share your story or a testimony in church, it actually hits the hearts and souls and spirits of so many other people. but that's that's why sharing of the story is so important it's not just about you it's about the collective us right and so um bringing all those things to bear and having this amazing opportunity with the book to place all of these things even in the translation of the book

i got to talk about what it's like to be black parents you know judy got to talk about what is like to be white parents of that time but let me tell you what it's like to be black parents in America I don't it's probably not that different from you know other generations but this is the these are the details of our time and this is what it looks like and this is why we love our kids just as much as you love your kids but they have it they don't have as much freedom sometimes and here's why black boys are just as vulnerable and actually are just as I'm nervous mostly about black boys when it comes to sexuality because before they can even say they love someone

they're considered enemy number one because of their they're not little boys anymore their bodies just getting bigger muscles on their body having a penis they're suddenly like a threat you have to talk about rape you got to talk about that with black boys

just your presence sometimes it may not be what you and the young woman consented to but you are still in the time if their parents say we witness that in real time these things are happening so we've got to be, we could be real clear on consent. We've got to be real clear on these sorts of things.

Wanting to put that, not just for wanting to not only protect my own sons, but all of these beautiful black boys that I get to, you know, be in community with that I love and I don't want to see hurt and I don't want to see misunderstood and misjudged just by their physical present. Nothing more than that. And because they don't like to smile because, you know, they want to keep it real i want them to see i want them to see beyond that i want to see black boy vulnerability i want people to see them as their fuel that that that they actually can cry and michael joker jokes like i got to cry again i was like yeah you got to cry again he's hurt he's more sensitive i said the character sensitive i said that um so um but yeah

because i just wanted yeah black boys cry and they also ball and they also go for their dreams and they want the girl, and they get the grades. You know what I'm saying? They do all. They struggle, you know, they're frustrated. They're all of those things. And then when they finally get what they want, it scares them for some reason. Because he know he didn't mean.

None of that stuff, he said, I don't want to give it away, but he ain't mean. None of that stuff on that last episode. I don't think he really wanted. I know he didn't want to walk away. Why? No, I think he was just afraid of what he was. He was afraid of losing it.

So he feels like letting it go would be less painful than just losing it. You know what I love about storytelling? Because it meets the viewer where they're at. You're going to see it that way. And someone's going to see that, wow, he understood that he did not have the capacity to let go of her and choose himself. So he needed to choose himself. He would have just stayed up underneath her.

And a lot of people do that. A lot of young people do that because it feels good to be loved. It feels good for somebody to call you and want to see you and hug you and kiss you. And you can get lost in that and you can lose time.

I think he understood time is ticking. And that's a reality to being young and making that leap in the, especially in a capitalistic democracy. You got to go. He understood that. And she helped him understand. it felt to me like he didn't um he wasn't chasing her by the end of the series though he was

literally just chasing an identity that he hadn't felt before like that like that real blackness like the blackness that you know his his mom and his dad wanted him to have and not lose by growing up the way he grew up by the end of the show he felt like yo going to that prom with her and just being around her and her and her and her say she wanted to go to how it didn't feel like he was just he was chasing her he was chasing his blackness to me and just he was going to I think I think all can be true all can be true but also imagine you get to Howard

and all you know is Keisha he might just be all up underneath Keisha and that and really I mean he I'm sure he played those scenarios out I know he did because we do as a writing team but but what I again what I love about storytelling

is that it meets the viewer where they are and this is what's beautiful about the show and all the different. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped

behind locked doors were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. It doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.

It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the hit podcast Family Secrets. We were in the car, like a Rolling Stone came on, and he said, there's a line in there about your mother. And I said, what? What I would do if I didn't feel like I was being accepted is shoes and identity that other people can't have. I knew something had happened to me

in the middle of the night, but I couldn't hold on to what had happened. These are just a few of the moving and important stories I'll be holding space for on my upcoming 13th season of Family Secrets. Whether you've been on this journey with me from season one or just joining the Family Secrets family, we're so happy to have you with us. I'll dive deep into the incredible power of secrets, the ones that shape our identities, test our relationships, and ultimately reveal who we truly are. Listen to Family Secrets on the the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health.

I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of Women's Health and Gynecology at the Adriah Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause. it can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it?

The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything, I never used to forget things. They're concerned that, one, they have dementia, and the other one is, do I have ADHD? There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids, to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life. Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now.

You know the shade is always shady is right here. Season 6 of the podcast Reasonably Shady with Giselle Bryan and Robin Dixon is here dropping every Monday. As two of the founding members of the Real Housewives Potomac were giving you all the laughs, drama, and reality news you can handle. And you know we don't hold back So come be reasonable or shady With us each and every Monday I was going through a walk in my neighborhood Out of the blue

I see this huge sign Next to somebody's house Okay The sign says My neighbor is a Karen No way I died laughing I'm like

I have to know you are lying humongous y'all they had some time on their hands listen to reasonably shady from the black effect podcast network on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast the moments that shape us often begin with a simple question what do i want my life to look like now i'm dr joyhart and bradford and on therapy for black girls we create space for honest conversations about identity, relationships, mental health, and the choices that help us grow. As cybersecurity expert, Camille Stewart Gloucester reminds us, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us. And so what we find is a lot of black women

are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain. Each week, we explore the tools and insights that help you move with purpose. Whether you're navigating something new, are returning to yourself. If you're ready for thoughtful guidance and grounded support, this is the place for you. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters.

Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years. But both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we were one of the longest running sitcoms with the black cast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled the joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All black people know about the look. On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show.

Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast. and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Different conversations that are coming up, all the different opinions that are coming up. This is us, this is the best dinner party you can ever have. Absolutely. You're just, this is what we think, and everybody's got opinions,

and what sticks to you is for you, and what sticks to you is for you, what irritates you. it's also for you. What irritates you as a writer, this is some game I give. It's like, a lot of times people are like, I don't like that. The I don't like that is just as important

as the, what you do like in writing. Because I say what sticks to you is yours. That's your examination. That's for you to examine. It's caught your attention. You can't shake it. You can't let it go. Good or bad.

Look into that. Investigate there. Dig there. I think that's what, I think that's why my, I think that's why I keep getting hits after hits is because I like digging deeper into our, to us. And I think who doesn't want to be seen? And I think a lot of our stories, either they're missing or they've been distorted. Like you said, the negative, like they've been distorted. I think when you start to really see yourself, you know, you might want

to tighten up here, a little tighten up there. But the most of you're like, I'm cute. I'm cute. I'm doing okay. I'm doing all right. You can lose five pounds, whatever. But for the most part, I'm doing all right. I think that those ideas of ourselves or what we're stuck on that may be for you to examine, you to look at. And I think that's why we need more storytellers out there. I just got three more questions if you got that. Yeah.

What emotional space does forever occupy that none of your previous shows have? What emotional space does it occupy? I think the cross-generational idea, you know, for the most far, I've written adult conversation, though I've had parents come into those stories. They're not, they're like drive-bys in a lot of ways. I just think the complexity of family and the generational connection.

And that I just really enjoyed that. I think also the scale, emotionally it allowed me to, really scale us and I enjoyed that and it you know the kids say take up space it allowed me to take up space for us and for myself and what did judy bloom teach you about softness and how does that show up in your characters now well softness is details I think especially in the book forever most of the book is about Catherine's internal feelings thoughts and and to use that much time on the internal space is really a privilege a luxury oftentimes most in our storytime

we're more observed than we are explored and I enjoyed being able to explore and that's what Judy taught in her writing all the books. She's an internal writer. And then she allowed us, she gave, as young people reading her books, you're validating these feelings inside that I don't necessarily show because I don't want to be embarrassed or I don't want to be judged or I don't want to be misunderstood. So kids are keeping a lot to themselves and she was being honest on the page.

So I believe I've been doing that in. in my body of work and I got to do it again to give young people a view of themselves today. Like she gave us, you know, 50 years ago. My last question is forever about love you've had, love you've lost, or love you still believe in? All the above. I believe in love. I believe in love. One of the things I'm really proud of with the ending.

I know there's a controversy about the ending. But what I love that Justin and Keisha showed us is how. love endures and it takes a shape shifts it can it's dynamic can change but love can stay present and they showed us how to let go and keep love in that in that ending I I think we could learn a lot from Justin and Keisha you know the question you know is someone is this is this a forever love or the one you remember forever and I would like to think that we as we move through our lives as human being that when we choose to use that word right I loves you that you there's a present that you

were so present and so loving that even if you don't last the couple doesn't last the love can last it just it might shift to um wow it might just shift to we always just sort of text each other on each other's birthday, that you matter to me. You know, one of the fun things you realize when you're revisiting the work, especially as young people, oftentimes that's where our big dreaming happened. And those young loves that a lot of times the best part of you is packed in somebody else's memory of you. And so to have access back to those people actually is good for you to remember who you are when you lose your way because you're going to lose your way and so love holds you there so it is about the past the present and the future and i think that love can take many different forms

you know i you know i have my my young one plays baseball and i've learned a lot about watching him sitting in the stands play baseball um long days long games long games but what's beautiful about it is everybody who walks into that batter box has a different fight and so I often think about relationship right did you swing the bat did you have a they call it did you have a good at bat and sometimes you're at bat you strike out but you still had a good at bat and I think that's what I think love is about are we having a good at bat are we swinging are we using our technique are we using all the knowledge we've been all week learning for this one to two times we get to walk in that battle box and are we using it are we do we you know do we whatever the shoulders and the hips and all the guys do we eyes on the ball eyes on the ball all those things all those things you got to do with this ball coming at you 80 90 miles an hour that's love and I think that I would like to think that we can all approach it at a good at bat um wow I have one final question

Regina King and her directing Yes Thank you for asking Yeah because okay So I was trying to look to see Like what the conversation around it was online But I remember when I found out that she was doing it My first thought was I wonder what their conversations were like

Like what changes she made And what she brought to the screen Because I heard you say a lot of it was about your life As a parent as well too No it's you move Let me be very clear I have a muse entry point And then once I go into that entry point

then I become a journalist almost and look at the world around. And then that's how I sort of craft my stories. That said, what's beautiful about the art form is that the art form is a collaborative art form. I had to sit in that chair. Judy had to sit in that chair to write that book. I'd go look at the book.

I had to sit in that chair and adapt that book. But one of the first phone calls you make after you have a script, you call your casting director Kim Coleman and then the second immediate is who is going to direct and I called Regina King and said I think it's time for us to collaborate again she first Virginia and I first worked together when she in early in her directing career she directed episodes of being Mary Jane and she went off to have a really wonderful directing career and it was like okay I need you to help let's help me reset the tone we both are mothers we both love our sons we

I needed Regina King I need that chemistry her iconic performances as an actress I would love them rooted in these characters especially helping us launch this love story within these two young actors anchoring them in their

chemistry and everybody knowing where they are in this play in this world then of course we built out the team and the decisions that we make together finding Cambio who is our DP, Suzuki, our production designer. We collaborate on the ideas of our, you know, our costume Mika and Tanja. These are the principal storytellers that we need to help tell our story,

just helping to make those decisions together. It was really lovely to help set the tone for it so that we can take off and run. I mean, you know, Anthony Hemingway coming in, Timby Banks, all of these major decisions are editors. You know, Carolina and Naomi and, It's just Gary Gunn, our composer, Kier Lehman, we put like, it's almost like, speaking of baseball references, it's almost like you have your baseball cards out. You're like, we should bring this for this. I got this for this. And you kind of put it together and it's fun to puzzle together. It's fun to sort of collaborate on that level.

So she and my company, Story 27, hers, royal ties, we've come together to help set a bar of excellence that we want the show to live in and thrive from. and you know what season two is going? I do. I mean, I have ideas. I still have to go through the process, you know, part of, well, I think another thing that makes me successful is how I honor my partnership. And I come into it respectfully and really to garner that,

to garner that energy back to me. But I have a concept of what I need to do. I won't share it until my partners are signed off on it. but my next steps are me coming into a meeting ready to talk to Netflix around hey this is where I see it and this is where I think it should go hearing their feedback their concerns taking that in consideration sometimes debating it for a while but finding a way to communicate why I think it's the way it to go and if not where is the compromise in that and feeling good about the artistic flexibility that I have

to craft story, to figure that out. So I'm looking forward to that, and success especially. No, sometimes success can make people tighten up, too. That's right. Stop playing with Marr, okay. Marr had hit after hit in multiple decades. That's right. Okay, screaming services, the linear television,

give her what she wants. That's right. Including the $50 million for girlfriends. Can we need closure? Okay. It's that simple. It's that simple. We've been talking.

about this. It's really that simple. And I'm excited. I think it's going to come. I don't know. I feel it. Like, I don't know. Last time I was here, we talked about it. And I think what was beautiful in my journey at that time was for me to claim the value and understand the boundaries

and understand what it is. I don't know. I think, and also this success breeds more success. So I kind of feel, I don't know, kind of feel like feeling. I think it's time. And the success girlfriends has had on Netflix. Oh my God. Oh, my I got.

They should see it. Generational success. I know. I watched that. I rewatch the whole thing with my mom. And I was like, this is so different. You know, it's fine. Finding out people are putting girlfriends on for their go to sleep.

They call it their comfort TV show that they put on and they just let it run. And some people let it run while they go to sleep. Blows my mind. Secondarily, my youngest son, I noticed that he will tell me, like, his friends are watching it. And they think your mom is cool because she does girlfriend. So I still got the street cred, y'all. I still got it. Mine is the game.

I'm up and down the game. All day. Up and down. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And this, I don't, I don't know what people will know, but 9-11 of this year marks 25 years of girlfriend. 25 years of girlfriend.

This year. So we need to make that announcement, right? It's time. That would be the announcement to make, right? It would only make sense. The first episode was 9-11, 2000. And all the women still look so good. Don't they look amazing?

They all of them. still looks like it. I saw Tracy recently. We went to go see the Whiz went back on the screen. Did anybody see it? No. On the screen?

Oh, you guys. I've seen the Whiz over and over, you know, but the Whiz on big screen, I haven't seen that since I was a young girl. And Tracy and I went together to go see it. We had a ball. And it was also really fun to watch her, watch her mom.

It was kind of like, oh, this is like very meta, right? So that was amazing. And then. Jill and Golden, was that your birthday? Yeah, Jill and go to my birthday party. So, to your point, they look smashing. To Persia, too. It has to happen.

It's going to happen. I know it's going to happen. Yes. Because it's like the one black sitcom that we really did not get any closure on whatsoever. And there's so many loose ends to tie up. You know, it's really not just loose ends. It's actually very relevant. I think it's a very carmic idea to have the show have a ending and a film.

I just want to do a movie. because of where we as a society have grown around the importance of relationships and Tony and Joan breaking up I think has been the hardest thing on the audience even over Joan not getting her man you know what I'm saying and so I think that that's an interesting thing to read to put back in the chat so it's still relevant to this day it's like how does friendship come back together or or not come back together right can you still find that love of your life when you choose you know what i'm doing all right by myself i'm doing there's nothing there's nothing wrong with me for not having had a husband like

we but that was a different conversation back at the time we were producing that show so where we have progressed today 25 years later there's a different um value in society around relationships and friendship and how important friendship is and the you know the the the sustaining of it, the care of it, the beauty of it, the complexity of it. And I'm like, okay, look at us grow. And then, and then also this idea that you're not broken because you're not in partnership romantically. It's not to say that you don't want that, but understanding that there's a different,

there's a different, you know, entry point into that. It's not just being married to be married. You know, you want to be really partnered with your soulmate or your, you're, you know those was it twin playing which one it is whatever to wait for everyone it is whichever one's the hot one that one I was going to say so Joan is we you can't say or anything but Joan is actually she does still want to be married and be with a person or she just going to do it by her I'm just talking about where we left her okay and I'm not going to give it too it's funny because I'm like it sounds like you know all by herself still

I'm just talking about where we are in society again because you would be I've shared with you guys very openly that my writing process my writing process is like who am I using on and then you open up to think where society is the journalist in me and that's where we are and that's all I'm sort of commenting on and that where we left the show 25 years where society is I feel the relevance of girlfriends is almost matched to where our ending was yeah wow and um so and even like and we talked about their physical beauty even that you'm saying even how as it's you know that's important you know and and also how do we get there?

What are we doing? Even my generation of women, which is also the generation of those women on girlfriends, we've pioneered a whole new conversation around. We're openly going to talk about paramedopause and menopause. We're not going down like the previous generations, being okey doked by the lies over there. So it's like those,

there's so much to talk about, I think in a new iteration of the ending that we're still holding on to from 25 years ago. So it's interesting things. to hold on to in terms of like the details of what I would do I'm not going to share that

because that's my currency you know my ideas are my currency my craftsmanship is how I make it you know everybody got a dress but it's how I make the dress that's right you know and so I'm excited for that opportunity I just I don't know energetically

I just feel it differently 50 million and maybe because I'm on your show now see it's like even that is a beautiful omen right because we talked about it last time I was there And now I'm back, and we're talking about it again. And, yeah, why not? I mean, there's nothing guaranteed, but girlfriends is a guaranteed hit.

I don't care what nobody said. Oh, I know. Global guarantee. Easily. I want to show you this. I posted this last week. Now that we're grown, which friend was the most toxic? No, what? Say, Joan.

Why did you even leave with toxic? Because we're grown now, so we have a different perception of all of them. What do you think, Charlie? Todd. Todd. Todd had no business. You know, Married Tony, Tony had no business, Maritime. But honestly, people always leave Lynn up.

Lynn would be considered very toxic nowadays because she didn't have no boundaries. She didn't respect nobody's boundaries. I think she was the most at one with herself to a certain extent. My was the only one that was unproblematic to me. But Lynn didn't respect anybody's boundaries. I have interesting theories about Joan and Tony. But let me ask you a question.

Why did you use the word talking about? Oh, I reposted to me. That was just a conversation started. I know, but why did you repost that conversation started? I think that they had traits that could be considered toxic. You know what I want to say about that? What I love about the vulnerability and the complexity of the characters that later they can be analyzed and give some language about what they were brave enough to be.

and what I look at between the generations is that when we there's this generation's we we have more language to label thing to label it I feel like those characters it's and so the word toxic I just sort of underscore highlight and circle because that can be this blanket over them that doesn't deserve to be there and that's what I'm saying is that we are complex now I'm not saying that the complexity means you you need to be friends with them for a lifetime you may not you may only complex for a while I'm not saying you can't grow from them I can't say you might like I said you might not have a good at bat and strike out but I don't know I just I want to be I think it's important to examine but not hold the label true absolutely and

because one of the things that Lynn represents to me and what she I think represented to the generation that was actually beautiful is that at the time that was writing that series all black women were presented that they knew exactly who they are what they needed to be in order to be accepted

Lynn represented she didn't know but she was still loved Trying to figure it out. Even in her sexual, like, she was, that was probably like the first time I ever saw a woman, black woman on camera that she was queer, but like we didn't know really what that was.

We didn't label it. Yeah, I didn't know and she was just Lynn. Yeah, I just thought Lynn was just like the girl who just did whatever she wanted to do. And everybody has that friend. Yes. And those friends, they have to be strong in themselves to a certain extent because you're so different than everybody else.

And if you think about Lynn and you put it in this new dress, she was break the no boundaries. She was actually, instead of it being, toxic, she was actually being progressive. Most people would align queerness to progressive thought, right? There was, she was

challenging notions why one could say the way she lived her life was communal living, which is now a conversation for the future. I'm just saying how we look at things and being careful not to, I think

it's beautiful to analyze because that's how we progress. But be careful not to then blanket everything with labels. Let's go back to forever. In 2018, we were saying ADHD, 2025. We're saying neurodivergent. Language keeps changing as we understand ourselves. And I think that's an interesting thing about the power of language.

And one of the things I want us to be mindful of, especially in our community, is how quick we are to say, oh, he's toxic, she's toxic, toxic, toxic, toxic. I would love to say, okay, maybe that aspect of that person needs some development, need some growth, Don, DJ Envy Mara, Dawn, we are in this, okay, our guilt fear, maybe as parents, we need to release that, understand what it is and let it go. But just be careful not to keep blanketing us

and our desire to grow and our desire to purge, you know, and get whole. So that's what I would say, I think what I love about the collection of those women, those characters, is as complicated or toxic as they were. Even in that, we deserve love. And they were trying to figure it out. And they're different ways to stay together in their friendship and in their respective relationships, you know,

and that how do we move forward together in the complexity of us? Because Carrie and Samantha fell out and nobody called them toxic when they fell out. Yes, they did. No, people love. Carrie is so toxic. You don't, first person on the rehearsal day.

What? People feel like Carrie is like, was wronged by Samantha and Samantha's just this free friend who just, eventually they still want to see them get back together as friends. People want Jill to never speak to Joan again. No, that's not true. Yeah, people feel like they were bad friends to each other. Maybe, but that's not true.

We definitely want them to get back together. That's part of the closure. We want to see if Jill and Joan become friends again Tony and Joan, I'm sorry These girlfriends argue all about this. Tony and Joan Tony and Joan. Tony and Joan.

But do you guys, no, but I'm asking you guys, do you really, I know you do, Charlene, you are very clear about wanting to see a movie. You are, you know. 16 years he's been clear. You don't have that very clear. And I want to also say, I'm always going to take a moment to say thank you

because you also, that means a lot to me as a storyteller, like, wow, that that level of impact on you and even the fact that you, me and Judy Blum were in the same thing thank you but now you three

are you going to go spend some money at the theater to go see a girlfriend I will walk to the theater I'm trying to be in the damn I'm just doing a check I agree My wife is taking me there so fast

It would be an event There's not too many events anymore It would be an event I think so too I think people would dress up I think people go out to dinner Michelle Mink, I have on this nice dress. She's going to have a nice dress,

some nice wig, or what? It's going to be something. You asked on Sherry Shepard for her to open her phone. She knows somebody with $50 million. Ask these two. Yeah, who you got in your phone? Let's call somebody.

Yeah. No, I'm trying to shake trees. Let's call somebody. Yes. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's on Netflix now. We appreciate it.

It's a long conversation. We appreciate it. I loved it. I love what you said. Thank you. Thank you. You've always been so intentional. And you're right.

Girlfriends gave us a lot of vocabulary. Yeah. So what? I had another question, but it gave us a lot to, it gave us a lot to have a conversation about. And I think that's really where everything is at. It's communication, have conversation, share ideas. We're not always going to agree.

But I think we all get to know each other. But what do you want forever to give people permission to do? And that's my last question, I promise. What do I want forever, love? I want people to think more about love. in every aspect of their life and actually even in for older that it's okay to want

that first love kind of feeling like what do we need to do to get back to that first love kind of feeling I don't know I just think it's I think as a human spirit having a human experience dancing with love all the time has got to be

our top endeavor so that's what I want Mara Brocka Kill the icon the legend we appreciate Thank you so much. We love you. We value you. Appreciate you and all your work. That's right.

Thank you. I really appreciate being here. Thank you, Breakfast Club. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. Earl. It's in the morning. The Breakfast Club. She said, Johnny. The kids didn't come home last night.

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