The Breakfast Club - Best of Full Interview: Mel Robbins Talks 'Let Them Theory;' Career Journey, AI & Social Media Effects, Mental Health +More

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Best of 2025- Best Sellers of 2025 - Mel Robbins Talks 'Let Them Theory;' Career Journey, AI & Social Media Effects, Mental Health . Recorded 2025. YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of breaking. bad drugs alcohol trafficking of people there are people out there that absolutely know what happened listen to paper ghosts the texas teen murders on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts wake that ass up in the morning the breakfast club morning everybody is dj envy just hilarious charlemagne the guy we are the breakfast club la rosa is here as well and we got a special in the building she's back ladies and gentlemen mill robbins welcome hey it's good to see you how

you feeling morning i feel great how are you doing bless black and highly favorite this is your first time in this studio you were here in 2021 when you had uh the high five theory yes yes but now millions of books later number one podcast in the world right now round of applause yeah round of applause yes congratulations congratulations six-year-old woman you know man it really feels like you've truly arrived. What do you, what do you think, you know, the success, what's made all this new success happen? Well, you know, it's not new success. Like, what you're seeing is the result of 15 years of just boring, grueling daily reps. Like, that's what nobody, like, wants to understand, is that you can be successful, you can achieve anything you want. You just have to be patient. You have to

get up out of bed every single day and put one foot in front of the other. You've got to be willing to do the things you don't feel like doing in the dark when nobody's watching and when you think that it's not going to happen for you, that is what it's about. It's about just consistent small moves being patient. I mean, there were so many times where I was just like, am I ever going to get out of that? Is anyone ever going to notice? Like, am I ever going to get invited to the breakfast club? Like, when is somebody going to notice? I'm sure this wasn't your spot that you wanted. Well, no, but seriously, like you kind of sit there because I mean, every one of us have had those moments, whether you're putting out music or you're starting a YouTube channel or you started a

business. And it's so easy to look around at what everybody else is doing and think that you're losing some race in life. The real game is with yourself. Can you keep going? Can you say to yourself? And this is kind of how I would keep myself going in those moments. I would say I refuse to believe that this is how the story is. I believe that at some point all of this work is going to pay off. I don't have to know how. I have to believe that it will. And if it hasn't yet, it's not meant to yet. There's some lesson. There's something I'm being held for that I don't know what it is, but if I choose to believe in this moment that things are going to get better, that things are going to turn out for me, that all this hard work is going to pay off, that

trying to be a better person is going to pay off. At some point, I will look back on my life and say, oh, that's why it didn't happen then. Oh, that's why it took longer. Oh, that's why. Either you weren't ready or God, the universe was holding you for a different moment. And so, you know, a lot of people ask me, what is this moment about? I think it's about 15 years of ridiculously hard work becoming a better person. I think it's about 15 years of just chipping away at getting out of debt and doing better in my marriage and being a better mother and getting control of my emotions and my mental health, chipping away at building a business

and I truly believe that I was being held for this moment like this 1,000% is my legacy but let me ask you a question Mel you talk about the reps yep for you it worked out and successful and great what about that person that is just not good

right that rapper that is not good like he's trying that podcast person that is doing a podcast that is just not good and everybody thinks they're good good to anybody. See, I don't believe that. But when do you stop?

Because you're a 60-year-old rapper? Like, you know what? Maybe. Why can't there be a 90-year-old one? See, maybe what the rapping is for is maybe it's not about rapping. Maybe there is something that you're doing when you are rapping and nobody's coming that is teaching you a lesson about patience. Maybe what it's doing is teaching you to believe in yourself when nobody else does.

And every time that you show up and nobody's there, every time you post a video on your YouTube channel that only your uncle and your son are subscribed to, every time you post, you're basically saying, you know what, screw the world. I believe in myself. I'm doing this for myself. And maybe you're not going to be a rap.

And I think that's the key that you said. I think, you know, with the podcast explosion, everybody did a podcast. Everybody's mama did a podcast. Everybody's grandmama did a podcast. But I think the reason that people have done it, and I think people can see through it is a lot of people did it for financial. Yes.

They seen the money that people were making and said, I want to jump on that train. Or they seen the money that rappers were making and I wanted to jump through that train. So it doesn't matter if you're doing it not for the right reason. I don't think it might not never connect because your intentions aren't there. But hold on a second. See, I actually believe everybody has woven into your DNA, this intelligent design and this kind of inner GPS that is either. pulling you toward things or repelling you from other things, that we are natural, energetic,

magnetic beings. And this isn't just some woo-woo garbage. Like there is hard science, not my science, but neuroscientists that will tell you that everything is physics and energy. Like the words, if you're hearing us speaking right now, what you are, you're watching us. The words coming out of my mouth are being translated through energy into your ears. And so you are a being that is wired to align with things that are meant for you and to reject things that aren't. I mean, you know, like, if you walk in a room and you immediately connect with somebody,

that's alignment. If you walk into a room, you're like, oh, let's like give that person some space. Because you can read the energy. That's alignment. And so for me, when you give the example of like the person who's a rapper who's just terrible, there's lots of people

out there doing stuff, they're just terrible. What I love is that they felt called to do something. I don't care if they felt called to do it because they wanted to make more money. I mean, hell, I was working five, six jobs back, you know, 15 years ago when we were $800,000 in debt because I needed groceries on the table. I needed gas in the tank. And so motivation to be safe and to make money or because of your ambition, that's a beautiful thing. But at some point you're going to go, I'm not that good at this.

But I believe, and this is what I think is super cool about life, absolutely every experience that you have in life is leading you somewhere and teaching you something. And I'm going to, one of the reasons why I share so much about what I've learned and the mistakes that I've made, I'm like the villain in every book, is because I'm stubborn. Like, it takes a sledgehammer from the universe for me to wake the hell up and stop doing something. Like, I literally get so into my groove, whether it's drinking too much or taking my stress out on my kids or being a jealous, insecure friend, that things have to backfire for me to wake up and go, well, guess I better try something different. So when you were in bed stuck at that lowest moment when you was in debt, what was that pivotal realization? What was that sledgehammer? Because I remember you saying that you had the realization

that nobody was coming to save you. What did it feel like to face that truth? It's very similar to that moment that you told me about with the steel toilet. See, you're one decision away from a different life. And you can make that decision any moment, any day. Like, you could make a decision today that changes the trajectory of your life

because a decision turns you in a different direction. Anybody that has gotten sober, anybody that's quit a job, anybody that's left a relationship or moved, you know what I'm talking about. That there is a decision, and typically, I don't know how it works for you, but for me, I have to get so sick of where I am

that I'm like, I'm done, like enough of this, Mel. And for me, that moment, you know, was 2008. We were $800,000 in debt. I was unemployed. My husband's restaurant business was going under, three kids under the age of 10. And I was drinking myself into the ground. I couldn't get out of bed.

And I think that what's interesting about life is, even in moments where you're struggling, you kind of know the things you could do, right? You kind of know when you're not, like, doing things to help yourself. You kind of know. Like, I knew you should get out of bed. I knew I should stop drinking. I knew I should look for a job.

It wasn't doing any of it because I didn't feel like it. I had lost hope. I was kind of in this mode, and this is what I also believe. You and I talked about this when, you know, you were on my podcast, that I think the single biggest thing in people's way, it's not a lack of skills. It's discouragement. If you don't believe that the simple things are going to work for you, you're not going to do it. And that's where I was.

I was like, why even bother getting out of bed? I'm about to lose this house and my marriage and my sanity. Everything I care about, why bother? and you know my moment the decision was I saw this rocket ship one night when I was drunk on bourbon and it gave me this idea that maybe maybe I should launch myself out of bed maybe if I moved fast enough in the morning I wouldn't be in the bed when the depression and the anxiety hit and so the next morning it was a it was a Tuesday morning in February 2008 the alarm went off and I remembered that stupid rocket launch idea. And for whatever reason, I just started counting backwards like NASA does, five, four, three, two, one. And then I got

out of bed. And that was the beginning of a completely new life because it was like that first domino that tips. And it gave me this thought, oh, wait a minute. I can actually make myself do things that I don't feel like doing. Huh. And, you know, the truth is when people ask me, okay, you're having a moment, that was, what it would, the math is like, what, 15 years ago, 16 years ago? It took me 16 years from that moment to get to where you are now. It took me 16 years of pushing my ass out of bed every day. It took me 16 years of taking a breath and not screaming at my kids. It took me 16 years of showing up and doing things when nobody was paying attention and

learning, you know, from every little thing. And 16 years of saying, one of these days, all this hard work is going to pay off. One of these days, I'm going to figure out what I'm supposed to be doing. One of these days, I'm going to, like, help people that are struggling and felt as bad as I did know that they're not alone. One of these days, I'm going to actually like myself instead of constantly hating myself and trashing myself for all the things I think I did wrong. You know, in church, we call that a testimony. It was like, God put you through all of those trials so you would have a testimony for this moment. Yes. And the true skill other than, like,

I think there's two incredible skills that I developed during this period of my life. The first one is teaching myself that if you just do the things you don't want to do, you will have everything you ever wanted. I'm going to say that again. If you just do the things you do not want to do, you will have everything you have ever wanted. Expound on that. Well, I mean, think about it.

Like, if you want to make a million dollars, here's my recommendation. Go to chat, GTP, and type in, how do I make a million dollars in the next two years, give me a day-by-day plan that I can execute in 15, minutes and it will probably teach you step by step how to launch a business online and get into affiliate marketing and if you actually do those things you will have a million dollars in the bank there are formulas for everything you want in life to lose weight to find love to heal your formulas everywhere find love oh of course Lauren you try that one that ain't going to work for you I'm good yes it is do not put discourage I don't even engage in conversation with neck I just let them

I want to go back to something that you just said because it's true, right? Somebody out there is listening to you and they was like, that ain't going to work. And that's exactly why you're not going to get it. Correct. Of course. That's exactly why you're not going to do. And so here's the other thing I want to tell you that really is a skill that really helped me. So if you look backwards at your life, you can see every twist and turn and every experience,

even the ones you didn't deserve, even the ones that were not your fault, you can look in the rear of your mirror and actually see how it all led you here and that there were lessons or things that led you here the skill that i want you to understand that you also have is that you could actually stand in this moment no matter how horrible it is and you can say i choose to believe that in the future i am going to get a point where there is a bigger possibility for myself in my life that I can't even imagine for myself right now but I choose to believe that I will get to that point 15 years from now 10 years from now and I will look back on this low moment where I didn't believe and I will go that's why that's why that happened do you

believe that so you believe that every single person has that in them I do not has it in them because I believe that but do you believe that every single person at some point in our life will unlock that No. Okay. Because for me, when I, like, am reading through this, a lot of what you're saying is comments and stuff, but I think even when you think about, if you have a friend group and there's two people who are really successful and two people that aren't, the difference is just what they choose to actually do. This book, if I'm a person that's choosing not to do that, how does your book stop that? Like, that's a habit. Yeah, it's a great question. So there's two things about that. So if you're in a friend group, you've got two people who are successful and two people who aren't, one thing I do want to validate because I do think in, like, kind of in culture, there's this myth that everybody's got the same resources. Not everybody has the same resources. So you might be in a friend group where there's two people that ended up not having college debt. So they started at a different starting line.

And so there might be things that are actually real things that contributed to somebody's success. Attitude, though, is a huge piece of it. Because I do believe, especially in today's world, with technology and with the amount of information out there, that if you commit yourself to learning new, skills and to just chipping away at it and continuing to show up, there are so many people on this planet. There is enough success for you, and you can figure it out over time if you keep chipping

away at it. And so, you know, the question is what's in it in this book? The let them theory is going to help you because if you're tired, if you're overwhelmed, if you're feeling like you keep trying and nothing is clicking, the problem isn't you. The problem is you unknowingly give all of your power to other people. You give power to what people say, how they feel, their expectations, what they're doing, and when you care more about what other people think,

and when you are navigating life based on what other people's expectations are. I literally wrote that down from you, look, first line. There you go, yes. That's the biggest thing for me with this book. I was like, my mom be saying that, but maybe when it's in a book, I listen.

Let them think bad thoughts. I want to just set it up about the book, man. There are some books that I believe, are must reads in life. The lectum theory by Mel Robbins has been added to that must read list. My wife got it for me a few weeks ago. And the book is just essentially about how you have to stop wasting your life on things that you can't control.

When did you get to that revolution? Oh, my God, it was 54. I had a slow learner. And the funny thing is, I'm married to the chillest dude on the planet. I mean, I'm married to a man who is not only Buddhist. He is a death dula. And, like, when you want to talk about, like, a person.

Yeah, that can just sit in stillness. I'm like a tornado of emotion. And so I've always wanted to let things go. I've always wanted to not care what people think. I've never known how. And see, when you're stressed or you're easily offended like I used to be or you have a lot going on, it is very hard to not get wrapped up in what other people are thinking and doing.

It's very hard to not let what your kids are going through, stress you out. And so, you know, I've been trying to do this forever. I mean, this is not a new idea. The serenity prayer is the let them theory. In fact, I sat down with Dr. Martin Luther King III and his wife, Andrea, and they both said we write about it in the let them theory. They both reflect on the fact that this concept that you have to give up control in order to gain control, that your power is in your response, that this is part of Dr. Martin Luther

King Jr.'s legacy, because your response is what dictates who you are. it's not what's happening out there it's how you respond to it with your thoughts and your actions and how you process your own emotions and so i did not know this until i was 54 years old and you know for me personally the power of these two words because let them we've all said let them in our lives a bazillion times i mean there's a there's a sermon circulating that's 20 years old kittie jakes doing this let them sermon so this is a concept that has been around since the beginning of time. And that's why this has resonated. I'm not teaching you something new. I'm reminding you of what you already know to be true. And I'm handing you this tool so you can

snap out of this crap where we're constantly worked up about what other people are doing to take our power back. You talk about managing other people a lot. And I've never heard the term put like that, but you use it to basically talk about how we're told what you're talking about right now. We're worried about other people, but also too, I think it's expectations of other people that we're making decisions based around that a lot. When did you realize this whole scale of managing other people and learning when the clock out of that job of trying to do that?

Well, so what it's going to happen is this. So when you start using the let them theory and it's so easy to use, the next time you're stressed out or annoyed or frustrated, and it's always with other people. Just say let them. That's how you use it. Let them. And you're going to immediately feel peaceful.

Your mom's in a bad mood, let her be in a bad mood. some old friend of yours is talking let him talk trash why you're not allowing it when you say let them you are reminding yourself there's one thing in life i can't control it's what other people say do believe feel and it's not my job to so when you start saying let them and you detach yourself from the responsibility of having to manage somebody else something interesting happens you realize oh my god i've lived my life in reverse i actually live my life giving time and energy trying to manage what other people think i have kept myself in a major or in a relationship or in a situation because i'm afraid to disappoint my parents or my friends i mean how many people

keep drinking or like keep going out at night when what they really want to do is launch a business And so they don't like take the weekends to work on the things that they want to work on because they feel like they don't want to disappoint their friends or people are going to talk about them. That's you giving power to other people. Like another way that we give power to other people is we, you know, get so focused on the headlines that we gaslight ourselves into believing that you have no power. It's complete garbage. Of course you have power.

I wish you were here a couple weeks ago. We'll continue on. And so when you start saying let them, it's sort of this revelation where you're like, oh my god i spend so much time in energy worrying about other people i spent so much time in energy letting them stress me out but is there a level of like when that becomes easier versus harder because like when you were just talking i thought about michelle obama yes in the podcast one of the podcast she did this week she was talking about how she realized she was doing a lot for other people not thinking about herself and she started making decisions for herself so she's going places

she wants to go do things people don't like that they don't and they think she's divorced because of it But it's like she's Michelle Obama, so it's hard for her to, like, the noise is so, it's a lot louder for her. Well, of course, but whether or not you pay attention to that is within your control. Whether or not you look at your phone, and we're all guilty of it, whether you are Michelle Obama or you're just going into your middle school, whether or not you give attention to the gossip, you look for the gossip, you mainline it. That is within your control. If you say, I can never, ever, ever, ever stop somebody from lying about me, from making up stuff about me, from, you know, saying whatever they're going to say. So why on earth would I spend any time in energy managing it? That's right.

And then you go, let me, this is the second part of the theory. Once you say let them, let them think negative thoughts. Let them make up all kinds of crap. Because if you know you're not getting divorced, what do you care about these idiots saying? What do I tell you all the time? that I know the truth. And when you know the truth about who you are,

you don't think about other people. When you live your life in a way that makes you proud, you don't think about other people. Mel, I tell them this all the time. You told me to read her book. And I already had the book because I think Eddie had given it to us

a minute ago. I was like, oh, I got the book. And for the moment. You got it. It will change your damn. I'm telling you. It will change your life because. But you have to get to that stage.

Yes. It's a process. It took me a while to get to that stage. It took you a while to get to that stage. He didn't. He think he was born that way, and I don't think that that's true. No one is born that way. So I've never truly cared.

But then even when I started to care, I realized things like the serenity pray, little simple things that you saw sitting in your grandmother's house, you realize that is absolutely the truth. God grant me the serenity. They accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And the easiest way to let go of what you can't control is just realizing you've never had control to begin with. And here's another thing that's really important.

This is why you're going to love it, is that what will start to happen when you say, let them is it's not that you're allowing people to do bad things they're already doing bad things you're recognizing that it's not your job to manage other people because this is a book that's about power and control and peace then you say let me remind myself how i respond to things actually is where my power is so do i give this any time and energy or not do i double down on just living my life in a way that makes me proud of myself, which is where your power is. And the thing that also changed me dramatically is I couldn't believe how much stress I felt and how I was bracing all the time. And when you start to say let them and you release that kind of obligation

to make other people happy or to make everybody know that you're not divorced or that everything's okay or like just let them think whatever they want to think and live your life in a way that makes you proud you're going to get all this time and energy back and what I love about this is when you're less stressed and when you're not bracing all the time because you know your boss is narcissistic so why on earth would you walk into work assuming that today's going to be anything other than what it already has always been let them be who they are I love the managing stress chapter And in that chapter, you say you can't control how other adults behave and stressing about it diminishes your power. You'll never reach the full potential of your life if you continue to allow stupid things or rule people to drain your life force.

Can you explain? Yes. So the two most important resources that you have in life, time, energy. That's what you got. How you spend your time, where you put your energy, it actually determines your experience of life. And that's why I say if you have this experience right now where you're exhausted. and overwhelmed and nervous and you're not like feeling like you can ever have time for yourself or your goals just aren't clicking. You're not the problem. The problem is all this time and

energy you spend dealing with other people. And so let them is a boundary that you draw where you start to recognize, okay, I'm going to let other people think and feel and do and have their opinions and I'm going to let them be disappointed. I'm going to let them misunderstand me. And I'm going to let me really take that time and energy back and pour it into working on myself and staying in my piece. And what I've found is that when I'm less stress, which I am, because I'm not allowing stupid stuff for other people to stress me out, I'm actually a better person. I make more money because I can use my brain instead of being in fire or flight. I don't like vomit on my kids, my emotions.

Like I used to be the kind of person that would come in after work and be yelling at everybody or mad at the dog for crying out loud. And then I'd be like, I'm sorry, it's a bad day at work, stressful day at work. Would the dogs say back? Yeah. You know, they kind of do this. And then they come back and they're really nice

because they literally dogs don't like punish you for that. And it's so sad that I used to leave the worst of me for the people I cared about the most. and then blame it on the stress of the day, that, by the way, when you use the let them theory, you have control over whether or not this stuff gets to you. You know, it's funny, I walked into a hotel tier, and everybody that was at the check-in desk were like, let them.

We love this. I'm like, well, if you work retail, which I have in my life, if you work in a restaurant or hospitality, having to deal with people? You got let them. You got let them. Like, do not let somebody's rudeness actually get to your spirit. protect it because your time and energy matters and it's important and this is these are two

boundaries let them be because the more I let other people be who they are the better my life gets the more I let other people live their lives better my life gets because I am protecting myself from unnecessary stress and drama and I'm reminding myself power is always in here and that's you know you asked me earlier do I really believe that actually everybody has in them a unique path and gift. And I said, yes. And I think the reason we don't unlock it is because we have given all of our power to something outside of ourselves. And so we have forgotten who we are. We have forgotten what it feels like to be peaceful. We have forgotten how much of a difference we can make in our families and our communities because we've just run ourselves ragged, allowing the

problems of the world to bring us down. And that's not to say there are problems. What I'm here to say is we need you to be in your power and in your peace so that we can better respond to the problems in the world. Isn't that society's fault, though? Because society makes us focus on the external so much and not enough on the internal? Well, if you blame society, you give society the power. I think that there are ways that we've been manipulated

through social media. I think there are ways that we have gotten lazy. I think it's very problematic that we've gotten a way, from the underpinnings that have really kept people tied to community, whether it's church or it's synagogue or it's a mosque or it is volunteering in your community, whether it is schools having more funding, whether it is people prioritizing a day of rest over running your kids all over for sports. Like we have forgotten the things that actually matter in life. And we're now spending six hours a day on the phone. And so if you blame the phone, which, yes, it's designed

to be addictive because the more time anybody spends on it, the more money people make because you're seeing ads. That's why it's addictive. It's just like a slot machine. And so that's not your fault. But when you wake up and recognize, wait a minute, do I actually want to give that much power to that thing? Isn't the phone supposed to be a tool that I can use for self-expression, communication, and to make money? Why am I the tool here? So when you see that, then you take your power back. It's sort of like this thing, like you can't actually get sober until you stop drinking. You can't take control of your life until you stop giving all the control to everything else.

Let me do it. I have a question. Yeah. In chapter five, you say, let them think bad thoughts about you, right? The question with that is when a lot of people sometimes, especially on social media, right? Yep. Nobody facts checks anymore. So sometimes...

I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. We have some breaking news to tell you about. Tennessee's attorney general is suing a Nashville doctor. In April 2024, a fertility clinic in Nashville shut down overnight and trapped behind locked doors.

were more than a thousand frozen embryos. I was terrified. Out of all of our journey, that was the worst moment ever. At that point, it didn't occur to me what fight was going to come to follow. But this story isn't just about a few families' futures. It's about whether the promise of modern fertility care can be trusted at all. It doesn't matter how much I fight. It doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this.

It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant. Listen to what happened in Nashville on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'scut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older.

Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentleman's cuthuburn.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I just fell and started screaming. If you lost someone you loved in the most horrific way. I said through you got 22 times.

The police, right? But what if the person you're supposed to go to for help is the one you're the most afraid of? This dude is the devil. a snake, he'll hurt you. I got you, I got you, I got you. I'm Nikki Richardson, and this is The Girlfriends, Untouchable. Detective Roger Goloopsky spent decades intimidating and sexually abusing black women

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Touchdown! It's never too late to turn your fantasy season around. Subscribe to the NFL Fantasy Football Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You might not care. You can let them think what they want to think, but that could affect your overall business, right? And we see that a lot, right? Because people don't clear and people don't do homework, right?

So if Lauren says something about somebody, people might automatically think it's facts. It's the true. People don't do their homework. But that could affect your reputation. That could affect your business. That could affect the way that your kids' teachers look at you or business that comes around. So what are you doing that example? Because you still want to fix your reputation, right?

Because it might not be that you care, but you want your legacy to go how things are factual. And that happens a lot, especially somebody, and I'm sure that's happened to you in this lovely spotlight. Of course. So what are you doing in those instances? Well, so here, this is a very tricky question because you're talking about the PR and the media swirl that has a life of its own,

which, by the way, you're never going to be able to control. And it's actually getting worse with AI because AI, like you guys watch this. Google, like if you ever go and Google yourself every couple days, the way AI talks about you, changes every day and because we all are broadcasters and we talk about all different types of topics like two days ago AI was reporting that I was divorced because I was talking to somebody who was divorced on the podcast like it's not like I don't care like I'm not divorced but you know what I mean

and so so it's just kind of a joke on some regard and so kind of understanding the ecosystem that you're in because if you've got a business risk issue then you need to make a very clear statement about what's truth and what's not, and then do not feed the fire, because the more that you feed the fire, the more legitimacy you give to this thing. And there are two kinds of people in the world. There are people who are intent on seeking the truth, and there are people who are intent on misunderstanding and spreading gossip. There are people who think about ideas, and there are people who think about people. There are people who are able to be intelligent and rational and really look at a situation. And then there are people who are intent on feeling powerful by stepping

on other people's heads. And that is just the world we live in, unfortunately. So PR is a little bit different. In personal, like, I think it's really important to understand who you are, whether you're dealing with rumors at a middle school or you're dealing with rumors in your community or you've got somebody in your family trash talking you. In order to repair your reputation, it is better to show than to tell, in my opinion. You prove the truth based on how you show up in life, not based on the words that come out of your mouth. And if there is somebody spreading things about you, the best way to handle it is to go directly to that person and to ask them about it. You know, I understand that you've been saying such and such about me, which is not true, can you help me understand

why you would be talking about me like this? Because people who gossip don't ever think that anybody's ever going to say anything because they're gossiping because they want to feel more powerful than you. When you have the ability to let them say negative things, okay, I just found out about it, let me choose. Is this something I want to actually address, or is this just data where I go, okay, now I know who this person is, noted. Now I adjust my time and energy and whether or not I hang out with you. Because those kind of people, the people that gossip about you

ultimately end up crumbling anyway. That's right. Because it always catches up with them. And I love that chapter, you know, to let them think bad thoughts about you. And you say stop allowing other people's opinions to hold you back from pursuing what you want and limiting the potential of your one wild and precious life.

It goes back to what you said, discouragement. Yes. Because when you hear that thing, you get discouraged and then you get down and you stop but I truly believe nothing can stop the destiny God has planned for you unless you stop. Yeah, you're the only one that can stop yourself. I believe that. Now that does not mean there aren't very real obstacles. That does not mean that you're not in debt. It does not mean that you know, if you have a criminal record, you have a criminal record and there are going to be things that are in your way and people that

will discriminate against you based on that. As a former public defender, I freaking hate that that is true because I do believe that we need to have the kind of society that allows people to change. We have to, yes. And so there are very real things in your way. That said, I believe in your capacity to figure it out. I believe in your capacity to tap into something that is bigger in terms of your potential. And I think people believe that too in themselves. Like, you know, it's the reason why when you hear an incredible sermon or you see a movie and you get all choked up it's not because of what you're watching on the TV it's because it's resonating with something that is deeply true in here and I think that's why this let them theory has exploded it's because I'm reminding

you of what you know to be true about life and about yourself and you know you feel it when that whenever you talk whenever you talk period but especially when you talk about the let them theory It is something internally that wakes up in me. It's like just a fire. Like, oh, it's just a reminder of like you said, what you already know. Yeah. It's an incredible thing.

And what I also love about it is, you know, it's kind of flying around social because when you say let them, you feel superior to other people. I'll let them go away without me. Let them walk out the door. Let them cheat on me. But the let me part reminds you that the only change in a relationship, it never comes from other people.

people, it always comes from you and you changing how you show up. And so the irony of this, it probably should be called the let me theory because it actually brings you closer to the people you care about. Because instead of trying to change people, instead of constantly being annoyed at your mom's mood or, you know, or thinking you know better than what your kids are doing now and they're all, no, no, no, no, people feel that judgment. And so there is distance right now in your relationships, particularly with your family, because we're judging, with our family but when you start to let them you create this space that is so awesome where you see your parents or you see your kids or you see your brother and sister as they are and then it's on you

to determine how do i love this person as they are instead of constantly wishing they'd be different that's i was going to ask you is how do you figure that out because sometimes that creates the distance too when you can't figure that out you're like i'd rather just not because you don't want to interacting something goes wrong or you say something wrong or you offend somebody yeah so it's a great question and you have to do it literally day by day like you get to choose if somebody's in a bad mood and they're the kind of person that gets very emotionally immature and they pout and then you know they kind of go silent on you you get to choose okay i'm going to let them be annoyed about this thing i'm going to let them be disappointed that i'm not going to make it to the family such and such thing

okay. Well, one of the cool things about really giving somebody the space to feel what they feel is it made me realize disappointment is actually a really good thing. Because if somebody's disappointed that you're not coming home for the holidays, it just means they love you. It doesn't mean you have to go. It just means that they just really wish you were there. Same thing with business. If you have a business partner and you can't make it to something, if they're disappointed, that's a good thing like what do you want your business part to be like oh you can't make it thank god i can't stand that guy no disappointment's great but it doesn't mean you have to take that feeling away by changing what you're doing and in that space you get to say what do i value what do i need to do for me

what kind of person am i am i showing up because i feel guilty or am i showing up because based on my values family's important so i am actually going to bend over backwards and go not for them I'm going because it says something about me and what's important to me. So I think we've also gotten to this point where relationships are so transactional. We text somebody, we expect a text back. You know, we do this,

we expect you to do something back. And so we're constantly waiting for the return. What if the secret to relationships was actually being way more flexible and just going, what kind of person am I? Am I the person that makes the plans? Am I the person that reaches out? Not because I expect someone else to,

but just because that's the kind of person that I am. And it's really shifted for me with friendship, this sense of, okay, am I in, am I out? You know, are they a friend? Are they not? And you start to realize there's so many more people in your life than you realize that care about you. There's so many people that are rooting for you. When you start to let other people live their lives and make their plans, but if you're the kind of person that wants to stay connected to people, you just reach out, just without expectation of return, you will be shocked at how much more comes back to you and you're not ripping it so much

and you're just doing it because it makes you feel good to check in on people. That's right. I want to go back to something, Mel, because you were a public defender. I know you did a little bit of radio, but I know some people

to hear this conversation because you mentioned being in debt, a lot, $800,000 in debt. That's a lot. Some people never seen $800,000. So you had to have some type of... I didn't have $800,000. I had a house.

Okay. And we took out a home equity line. I hate a lot. We then, and cashed that sucker out. We took out a baza. zillion credit cards. We had a little bit of savings, and we cashed that out. We cashed out the little bit of the kids college fund. And we took a loan on a car. So there was like that, and then what happened is they started factoring, which is a, I mean, predatory lending, which basically means every time

they swipe a credit card at a restaurant, they're charging interest toward it, which was part of our guarantee. And then, so it was, that's not like we had that as a nesting. You were in a But you had to have some type of success, though. Oh. Before. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I was a public defender and then I worked for a large law firm.

And then in 1999, I kind of got into that first dot com thing in Boston. And so, yeah, you know, we were in that stage of life, three kids under the age of 10. I'm working. My husband's working. We're making the ends meet. Yeah. But you just felt like this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing. Well, yes.

What happened is in 2008, I had. I had tried to do something in the media business, and it's a long, complicated story, but I basically got cast to be on a reality show that I was going to host, where it was going to be like an extreme business makeover show. And you remember that moved the bus show, so they wanted to do that for businesses. And by the time we went to shoot the show, they had changed the show entirely, and it was now called Someone's Got to Go. And I was the host of a show, get this, where people were going to get fired on national television,

on a reality show from real jobs. And I wasn't firing them. You were voting a colleague out. It was Survivor in an office place. So we shot two episodes. It was a disgusting show. I was literally popping Xanax because I was having panic attacks

the entire times. I'm like, this is not what I signed up for. The show gets tabled, and I got held in one of those non-compete contract things. And I didn't have a job. And this was right at the moment where my husband's first restaurant had done, well, why well, I mean, they were doing okay. You know, they were successful. They could pay

their bills. Friends and family had invested. And then they were, they raised a little bit more money from friends and family to open two more locations and the whole thing imploded. So now I'm unemployed. Friends and family have invested. They're working their tails off to keep this thing afloat. We both feel like we have royally screwed up our lives. I feel like I've been a public defender. I've worked in a law firm. I've worked at three different startups. I've tried life and business coaching. Then I did this show, which I thought was going to be our meal ticket, and now all of a sudden I'm in a non-compete. I can't get a job. And some people would say, well, just go back to the law. I'm like, do you know when you are in that position where you think

you royally screwed up? You have, you do not have any confidence. How do you go get a job when you're like, I don't have any worth? And I got to pretend that everything's okay because friends and family have invested in this business and the doors are still open and they're trying to save it. That was the backdrop. at the age of 41. And, you know, I think I'm a big visualizer and, you know, I love vision boards and that kind of stuff. But never in a million years was the vision for my life. Okay, at age 40, let's make a vision board.

I'm going to paste an image of getting divorced and being bankrupt and alcoholism. No, people put on like the Maserati and the beach house. So when your life takes a turn, you're like, I didn't plan for this. It's surprising how you can know what you should be doing. But all motivation to do, it's gone. And that's when I created that five-second rule, the countdown, four, three, two, one to just get myself out of bed. You know, in the book, you talk about how you felt paralyzed by imposter syndrome,

especially when you were teaching the five-second rule. I wonder what's changed since then? Like, what gives you the confidence and authority now to feel like you can go out here and teach the lesson there? That's a great, great question. So, you know how, well, first of all, imposter syndrome is deeply misunderstood. So imposter syndrome does not. mean that you don't belong in the room you're in. Imposter syndrome means you actually want to be

in the room you're in. And there's skills or there's experience that you need to gain in order to dominate in that rule. Imposter syndrome is actually not self-doubt. It's ambition. And so... Explain that a bit. Because it's always been said the other way. Yeah. And so if you really think about it, if you walk into a room and you don't feel imposter syndrome, it's because you don't want to be in that room. You don't care what people think about you in that room. If you walk into a room and you feel a sense of imposter syndrome, it's because you care about what people think about you in that room. It means your ambition wants you to succeed in that room. I was like push to stay sharp because you're trying to, okay. And also like, hey, I want to actually succeed around people like this,

which means what are the skills I need? What's the experience I need to set myself up? This is like a wave of your calling and your ambition. Like, I actually want to feel good in this room. So it's not a sign that you don't belong there. It's a sign like, hey, there's some work to do. And you can dominate in that room, too. And so to your question about how do I have the confidence to do it, I think it's literally because of the 15 years of just walking into rooms and sharing what was going on. And, you know, once the five second rule started to spread around on social media and people would call me and say, hey, would you come talk about this thing? And I would go. They weren't paying me. I mean, I would stand at a brown bag lunch 12 years ago and teach in somebody's office,

you know, a little real estate office in the, in the break room with the fridge that's got the moldy food in it. Like, that was how I started. And what I started to understand, and I think it explains a lot about, like, why I am who I am, is that I, we're all the same. everybody is dealing with the same stuff yes it's easier if you have more money and more resources but at the end of the day everybody's got a family member that they're worried about everybody has ambition they're not tapping into everybody has things that they want to pursue in their life

and they're kind of letting themselves down a little bit everybody struggles with a little bit of uncertainty and anxiety at times everybody has hopes and dreams and feels a little discouraged and overwhelmed and when you started a baseline that people would love to thrive and people thrive when they can and if they can't I believe it's because they're discouraged or there's some skill building or some experience or some mentorship that's missing that's it

but that you're built to thrive and so when you really start at that baseline whether you're like you know I make it a practice by the way this is this is one thing that'll change your life when you go into a public bathroom two things I always leave the space better than when I found it

I always you clean up public bathroom it depends now Mel no no no literally like I literally that's why I don't go into that stall but I don't know I guess no just hear me out

let them I gotta let I got it because if somebody like destroy especially women if somebody destroys a seat peas all over it and then they leave that is a human being that is so disconnected from the interconnection of the human experience. You are leaving that for another person.

And so making sure that you don't leave your mess for another person, making sure that you just kind of wipe down the counter. And then here's the second thing. If there is a human being cleaning that bathroom, please look in the eye and say, thank you. All the time. All the time. Thank you.

All the time. Like that right there is a simple thing that will make you start to shake out of that woe is me or that stress or that overwhelm let them know you appreciate and see what they're doing because it changes who you are and then you start to see all day long that there are like you know i can't look at you because i'm gonna cry um people are just walking around disconnected and the power of starting to be the one that wakes people up hey you know I always get an elder, hey, how is everybody doing? Like, it's shocking how we have gotten so far away from that sense of community.

And there's actually research around this. They call it either weak ties. I call them warm connections. Those people that you see in the building every day that you say hello to, the person that's walking the dog, that you know, know the name of the dog in your neighborhood. These relationships matter because they make you feel human again. Yeah, but like you said, it has to get back to community. It has to be the way that we raise our kids.

We have, I have six kids, but I have one kid, Jackson. And he does that times 50. And it's just something that's taught, that's seen. You know, when we get off an airplane, we thank the pilot. Yes. You know, when he plays basketball, he thinks the ref. He thinks the coach. He looks them in the eye.

And you can see from their reaction, they don't get that that much. But for him, he always says, I'm grateful because he didn't have to do that. That's right. And that comes from, we have to be a community again and start teaching from a young age. So our young kids could teach their kids, could teach their kids, because it's kind of like a lost art. Mel, you just fucked me over something so simple, too.

Because I hate dirty bathrooms. I hate when I walk in a bathroom and somebody leaves shit in the toilet or if it's a public restroom and they leave the toilet line around the city. I'm like, how could you do that? Like, don't you know somebody else is going to use this? Even in my own house.

You know, I got young kids, so you're not too mad about it. But I'm just like, yo, pay attention because there's other people that's using these bathrooms, but you just explained it in such a way those people are so disconnected from the human experience.

Yes. Yes, yes. And like this is where let them comes in. I think people get... No, I can't let them do that. No, but hold on a second. It's the reason why people are so disconnected is because the compounding stress

and overwhelm that comes from allowing the world to beat you down and the discouragement that compounds, that is what is in people's way. think we are innately built and wired to be connected to one another. That is our nature. We are innately wired to really like stay connected to ourselves. That is our nature. That is our intelligent design. It is woven into your DNA. And the state of the world right now, I think, is a reflection of the collective disconnect. You know, I really feel like there is this

massive awakening that is building and that in life there is always this balance between the negativity and the overwhelm and the toxic stuff that's going on out in the world and in the headlines and people then waking up and going I forgot what mattered I forgot why this is important I need to get to work I need to stop whining and worrying and you know just gaslighting myself that there's nothing I can do and this is oh there's always something you can do you have to wake up and recognize that it's not going to happen out there it's going to happen in here well you feel the impact um from what you're doing with your book in the let them theory um like you just got emotional just not even just about your impact but just talking about just change in the world how does it make

you feel like do you take a moment just of gratitude and be like because i saw all the tattoos in the book and i was like that's so fire like it's hard to make people like actually believe something that's tangible. One of the things that, you know, for me, I spent so many years, like, hating myself and feeling like I was a really bad person. And when you get stuck in life, it's easy to think you're the only one. And so I'm just literally on a mission to share whatever I can share and give people access, just like you guys give people access to incredible thinkers and experts and resources, you know, your work is reaching some way halfway around the world that doesn't even have a toilet in their house. And how incredible is that? And if I can save anybody the headaches

and the heartaches that I cause myself or the people that I care about because I didn't know any better, I didn't know what the problem was, I didn't know how to change myself, I didn't know how to push through the emotion, that is a life well lived. Why did you hate yourself, though? Because you can't do anything about what you don't know. Oh my God. We don't have time. I literally like from the amount of cheating I did when I was little to the like undiagnosed anxiety or the undiagnosed dyslexia and ADHD and how that created tremendous anxiety to the way that childhood trauma impacted me that I didn't even realize was impacting me you know and like it's just chronic I just did not think I was a bad

person and there's a lot of people walking around that have a hundred times more negative thoughts than they do positive ones and a lot of people develop a habit of being very self-critical it's never enough like you're never going to make it like y'all is so stupid why did you do that either because that's how they were talked to when they were little or because it's this like almost protective thing that if you beat yourself up first you're going to catch it before other people do and i got to a point and this is an important thing the only thing you need to make your life better is one decision. How I'm living my life right now and how it feels no longer works for me. That's all you need to know. If you can have the courage to say that to yourself,

you now know, you now have tipped the first domino because you've made a decision that you want to change how your life feels. You made a decision that you want to change how it feels up here. And for me as a mom, like your kids absorb the way that you treat yourself. And so having two daughters that I started noticing, my God, why are these beautiful young women picking themselves apart? Well, because I do. Why are they so hard on them? Because I was so hard on myself. That's how they learn it. And so I don't want them to do that to themselves. And, you know, the thing I was going to share that's made a huge difference for me is that I keep the impact front and center. And so we send an email out five days a week. There's a person on our team

whose job is to assemble all of the things that people are saying all over the world about the books and the podcast, not about Mel, but about what you learned. And I'll tell you, every day there's 20 to 30 of them. And just the other day, there was a person who talked about how he was a stepdad and the relationship ended and those stepkids were his life. And he didn't want to be here anymore. And somebody started to share the podcast with him. And he would go and take a walk every morning and listen to the podcast. And it started giving him a sense of hope. And now he uses the let them theory. This is a person that actually works in like a police operations control center. Never in a million years. What I think this is somebody that's listening to the Mel Robbins podcast or listening

to this kind of conversation. But it goes to prove that everybody wants to do well. Everybody wants to thrive. And you know when you're not doing well. You know when you're not thriving. The problem for most of us is just kind of feeling like I don't think this could change. And the fact is, of course, it can change. If you've ever been happy in your life, you can be happy again. If you've ever been proud of yourself, you can be proud of yourself again. If you've ever forgiven somebody else, you can learn to forgive yourself. Mel, I know you've got to go to this. This is my last question. How do you receive comments from people who say Mel Robbins is giving mental health advice with zero mental health professional training?

She should let the professionals speak. Let them. I love it. But here's the thing. I'm not diagnosing anybody. I'm not. I'm trying to make the intellectual and the academic and the scientific accessible to all of us. It is so important that if you are having an issue,

deserve to work with a mental health professional. I wish that the whole system would change so that it was accessible. Because I think about mental health. I don't think about mental health like you're crazy. Mental health is thriving. It's your ability to manage your stress. It's your ability to push through those moments where life is overwhelming and build yourself a little life raft to keep yourself afloat. Mental health is like building a muscle. And so I also think we hear that word and we think some like clinical depression. If you've got a big issue, go see a doctor for crying out loud. But we all deserve to have access to this information and access to the experts. And so I am absolutely distilling down the world's best research just like you are.

I'm absolutely sharing my experience, not because I think I know what's best for you, but because by God, if I can save you or one of your kids or somebody you care about, the problems that I've faced in my life or that my kids have struggled through because I made dumb mistakes that is fantastic I happily will take that criticism happily and you know also God doesn't call to qualify it he qualifies the call and you've been called Mel Robin I feel that I'm motherfucking love you man I love you too well we appreciate you for joining us it's been too long you got to come up more often absolutely I got to come up to Boston

oh I loved it I had a ball thank you for having me on your podcast he's you are You are literally a day away from being in the top 10 most listened to episodes. Wow. 3.5 million people have listened to that episode in the last four days. Wow. You were like church. You were channeling. But that was God because my wife literally gave me your book on a Friday.

And she was like, you need to read this right now because I was stressing about some people. And she was like, you need to read this book right now. And I was like, oh, I'm going to see Mel on Wednesday, literally. So that was just God. So I read the book and I got to sit with you. and now you hear again on The Breakfast Club, and I just feel full. Thank you, Mel. Thank you.

I love your new studio. It is unbelievably cool. All right. Well, it's Mel Robbins. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning.

The Breakfast Club. I'm investigative journalist Melissa Jeltson. My new podcast, What Happened in Nashville, tells the story of an IVF clinic's catastrophic collapse. and the patients who banded together in the chaos that followed. It doesn't matter how much I fight. Doesn't matter how much I cry over all of this. It doesn't matter how much justice we get. None of it's going to get me pregnant.

Listen to what happened in Nashville on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo.

This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gendelmanscut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. I know he has a reputation, but it's going to catch up to him. Gabe Ortiz is a cop. His brother, Larry, a mystery Gabe didn't want to solve

until it was too late. He was the head of this gang. You're going to push that line for the cause? Took us under his wing and showed us the game, as they call it. When Larry's killed, Game Must Untangle a Dangerous Past, one that could destroy everything he thought he knew. Listen to the Brothers Ortiz on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Who would you call if the unthinkable happened? I said, it was y'all 22 times. A police officer, right? But what do you do when the monster is the man in blue? This dude is the devil. He'll hurt you. This is the story of a detective who thought he was above the law, until we came together to take him down. I said, you're going to see my face to the day that you die.

Listen to the girlfriends, untouchable, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of breaking bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.