The Breakfast Club - Check Out "All the Smoke" Podcast

Episode Date: March 31, 2021

This episode on All the Smoke Podcast Charlamagne joins in on the discussion and speak about Nipsey's legacy, his top 7 artists, and looking up to Jay-Z. He also opens up about his most memorable interviews and social justice. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.

What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. We need help! That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay.

Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts

that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Peace to the planet. I go by the name of Charlemagne the God. Now, maybe you know, maybe you don't, but I have partnered with iHeartRadio to launch a brand new network called the Black Effect, all right? Podcast network. The place where black coaches celebrated and black voices are heard. One of the shows that, you know, I love, I was a fan of before we even partnered with each other is my man Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson, collectively known as All the Smoke, okay? All the Smoke is a podcast that talks about basketball, but really they just talk about life, man. And, you know, Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson, they don't bite their tongue

for nobody. Some people call them outspoken. Some people call them controversial. I just call them two real black men. All right. Two real men of color. All right. Two real individuals, period. All right. Matt Barnes and Steven Jackson. I've been on the show and that felt surreal for me because I'm such a fan of the show, man. But just to be able to say those are my partners and, you know, they rock it with the black effect. That means more than you would ever know, man. So in a second, you'll get to hear an episode I appeared on for the show. And if you like it, I hope you'll go find all the smoke in your podcast listening app and subscribe. So you never miss an episode.

Welcome back. Season two, All the Smoke, from our beautiful New York location. Excited about today's guest. Someone I really look up to in this space. One of the strongest black voices to me in the country. Charlamagne. Matt.

The God. Thank you, bro. Thank you for having me, man. What's happening? I love All the Smoke. I love when I get this opportunity to actually be on shows Charlie man, Matt the guy thank you, bro. Thank you for having me You know, I love all the smoke I love when I get this opportunity to actually be on shows that I actually fuck listen to and fuck with yeah That's how we saw that right this club. That's only right. We'll get into how we really working together later But let's just let's get into it man. The the climate of America is on the brink of changing I think it's it's finally reared its naked head and people are starting to realize that there's some real issues here.

What is your just thought of where we're at as a society right now? I think wherever we're at, it's no going back. I'm one of them dudes that first voted in 08 when President Obama was in the White House. And I'm going to be honest, I only voted for him because he was black. He was black and he was cool. He had the culture, you know. But I think right now a lot of us are more politically sophisticated. And we understand that you have to have the right people in office to make certain things happen.

You know, and I think those rose colored glasses that we all wore when Barack was in the White House, that's over. Like, I don't care if it's Joe Biden or Senator Harris, whoever's in there, we're not just going to be in love with them because they're in there. You know what I mean? That's not where the change comes. The change comes is continuing to push once they get in the White House. So I think wherever we're at in this country, there's no going back because both sides have been exposed, right? Like, we've been to it's not all sweet. And now the other side definitely knows it's not all sweet.

But then we also know that there's a whole other side. Fighting it hard. Everything is fine. What are you talking about? All this shit you're talking about. What are you talking about? What are you all this shit you're talking about? What are you talking about? That's what trips me out is we've been able to wake some people up and heighten their senses and step outside of themselves and be vulnerable to try to understand the pain that the black community goes through. But there's a lot of people that feel like we're crazy for even addressing this.

And what are we talking about? And it's all bullshit. Why would they want to relinquish that kind of power? Right. You know what I'm saying? They got power. They got privilege. Why would they want to relinquish it?

We're definitely going to have to fight for that. I kind of honestly feel like we're going to be in this spot until Indian and black blood have a fingerprint on the Constitution and how this country is actually ran. Because the president only can do so much. You what I'm saying and then again I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil evil is evil you know I'm saying and if we understand that the system is built for us to be in this position is still fighting to this day then we have to have a say so how it's ran and that's really the only way we gonna stop this shit you know I'm saying because a lot of times like I said we both for people that we don't even have histories of hating us absolutely you know I'm saying? Because a lot of times, like you said, we vote for people that have histories

of hating us. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? So what kind of situation is that? You know what I'm saying? We vote for somebody who we know hate us.

It don't make no sense. The way I kind of look at that situation, though, I mean, since we're here now, I think as a black community, we ask people to understand and try to grow if you are a certain way.

So the first thing everyone points out is Biden's track record. And by no means am I justifying anything. This is just kind of just the way I kind of look at it. We look at his track record and he, you could definitely say he was against the black community. Yeah. 86, 86 mandatory minimum sentencing, 88 crack laws. And you got more time for cracking coke, 94 crime bill. Like, yeah. So you can definitely like, so for him to say anything other, to me, I just...

You're right, I made a mistake. That's what I want to hear. That's it. And then to me, but also, like I said, so the way I'm looking at it, his track record, he's quick to look at my... Your track record ain't shit. I'm just going to be honest with you.

But to me, it's just like, can he possibly change? Can he possibly see through a different lens? Because did being with Barack for that amount of time rub off on him? So we're looking at someone who can possibly have changed where he came from. On the other hand, we know who the current president is, what he's about, what his makeup is, who his base is. So to me, it's just like people say the lesser two evils, and I would agree to an extent. But I'm looking at someone who can possibly have changed and if he's in office, he's going to have to prove that he changed because

he realized he could be gone after one term if he's able to make it. Or are we picking someone who we know who he is? Yeah, I don't even look at Joe Biden as a change agent. I look at him as a pathway to change. I honestly feel like old white male leadership, that ain't the pathway to change no more. Old white male leadership got us

in this position. You know what I mean? From the inception of how this country was put together, it was built for this old white male patriarchy. And everybody else was considered secondary, third, fourth. So I don't look at either one of them as change agents.

I definitely don't look at Biden as a change agent. I definitely don't look at Trump as a change agent. But I think Biden is a pathway to change. You know what I mean? And like you say, talking about forgiving, let me go back to that. Because you know how they do us. We could be on TV. That's right.

All the stuff we're doing right now. That's right. We got a great show. All the stuff I'm doing in the community. But as soon as I get on CNN, the first thing they do is talk about the brawl. That's right. You know what I'm saying? But they want us to forgive. They say it don't work like that.

That's right. You know what I'm saying? But they want us to forgive they shit that don't work like that. That's right. That's why I personally don't give a fuck about criticizing Joe Biden. You shouldn't criticize Joe Biden. You're going to ruin his chances. F all that. Like, why can I not critique him, call out his flaws,

call out his record, and still vote for him? Right. Like, what kind of world do we live in where I'm supposed to just, all right, just be quiet. That's literally, you're telling people to shut up and vote the way people tell athletes to shut up and drill like i'm not gonna shut up and vote i'm gonna vote based off my

interest and i'm gonna call out the things i don't like and if you put some things on the table that i do like hey i rock with that now you saying forget this person but you got a cousin that took two dollars from you that you think that you grew up with your whole life, but you ain't forgave them yet. Not one time. You ain't forgave them yet. Still mad at them. You don't want that $2. Still mad at them. Pivoting a little bit to the social justice movement,

you know, I kind of feel like when Kobe passed, it's been a domino effect of negative things to happen since then. I go back to Nip. Nip before the divorce. Life ain't been the same. I ain't gonna lie. I feel like there wasip. Nip before the, the March 4th. Life ain't been the same. Right.

I ain't gonna lie, I feel like there was a glitch in the matrix after that. Yeah. Shit just been going like, down, down, down. That's a great point. You know, so we get to the pandemic and then we get to the George Floyd situation, which, you know, my man right here was, was front and center for one of the biggest, or if not the biggest protest in the history of our country. What was your take from all that when that George Floyd video hit?

Man, I remember exactly where I was at because I was trying to avoid it. And the reason I was trying to avoid it, because I think sometimes, man, we pass, we just pass trauma amongst each other. You know, you be on social media and there's another video of this person, a video of that person. It's just like, damn, who are we trying to prove? We know what's going on in our country. You get tired of looking at it. Yeah. The other side needs to see that.

And I remember my homegirl called me. It was actually Tiffany Haddish. She called me. And we was on the phone. And she was telling me about it. And she was crying. I'm like, man, I'm trying to avoid it. And as I'm watching CNN, the video pops up.

So I was forced to look at it. And I think that the reason that video was so impactful is because of that exact reason. A lot of us that know what's going on, we can avoid it. A lot of white people can definitely avoid it because that ain't even their world at all. But when we were forced to be still because of that coronavirus and we sitting at home and we got to watch that eight minutes and 46 seconds, man, when I saw that, my immediate thought was I felt defeated. And the reason I felt defeated, because I'm like, man, if this black man can be out in broad daylight, this cop's kneeling on his neck, I'm watching all the other brothers and sisters around just feeling hopeless.

You know what I mean? Not knowing what to do in that moment. I know they want to help. I know they want to react, but they don't want to end up dead. It's just like I felt defeated. I'm like, what do we do? And then when I saw everybody start tearing shit up and burning shit down, I'm like,

what other reaction did you expect from people? Like, it's only but so much a community of people can take. Especially in the city where it's been going on. A lot of people didn't even know that. Well, I say, when the George Floyd situation hit, unfortunately when we, like you said, we become so immune to

it, we see police brutality. It's a shot and kill. We saw for nearly nine minutes a man suffer and beg and plead and call for his dead mom. You know what I mean? Like, I think that having to see, like you said, having to see that because the world was still is the reason that the light came on. And some people said, but then at the same time instantly he did this and his his past is this and he he was he was resisting and he was doing all this and he you know he had underlying to like i mean even the uh coroner came out and and gave you know a bullshit uh you know

an autopsy uh result so it's crazy that even when we when it's on your face in front of your children to your grandmother and everyone can see it, you still try to deny shit. Yeah, it was the lack of empathy for me. It was just the lack of empathy of watching that devil have his knee on the brother's neck. And no, you mean to tell me not one other officer had the empathy to be like, yo, man. Just for a second. Just for a second, like, God damn, not one.

Until you've seen the other interview, I mean the other view, where they go on the other side of the court and all of them on top of them. And all of them on top of them. It's like, yo, what faith are we supposed to have as black people in this system? Like, seriously. I can't remember the young lady neighbor when she said they should be lucky black people just want equality and not revenge. That is a very powerful statement to make because it's the truth. Like, we should all just be tearing this shit up based off the the history that we based off what we've gone through in this country and then the

first thing they want to point out is the fact that things are getting torn up but they never want to talk well like well why is it getting torn up why are they doing they're just are they just wild animals that's the way they want to paint us and act but let's address why they're frustrated why they're why did kentucky board up the downtown before they gave the result of the cops because it wasn't because they knew why did they tell the cops not to go on vacation and stay like because they knew they weren't going to serve justice like let's look at the root issue of why this other shit is happening i loved it too though because it activated so many people in our community like of all colors man when I saw

Steven and Trey and Tamika at that press conference man I'm just like wow you know and I know that it was people telling you to stand down They're like oh you good you got the dollars what you care for? But there's that like though, but they said they you know I didn't pay no attention to you know I am You know I've always been my brother's keeper You know I mean and like I said that's the closest person how I am. Mm-hmm. You know, I've always been my brother's keeper. You know what I mean? And like I said, that's the closest person, like I said, to my twin ever in my life, you know, even though we wasn't real brothers.

But I did for him what I do for any one of my brothers. Right. You know what I'm saying? But if it cost me to go stand up and use my voice and my status to speak up for justice for anybody, you know, I was going to do it, head up, chest out. But what was it like for you? You've been a leader in locker rooms and on the floor, but what's it like being a leader for a culture, for a movement,

for something that the country has never seen, the world has never seen? I just lead with my heart, bro. I just try to do what I know is right, you know what I'm saying? I treat everybody the same. I don't have a history of racism. I don't have a history of hate towards nobody. So I walk it how I talk it, you know what I mean? I wear my emotions on my sleeve

and what you see is what you get with me. But at the same time, I know I don't have all the answers. You know what I'm saying? I know, just like we talked about, I might not see what I'm fighting for. You know what I'm saying? But as long as I have, I know I had a hand in it, you know what I'm saying?

I know I'm living, my death is gonna be worthy. How do you feel, even though you are doing what's right, you're met with so much pushback, resistance, death threats. Like how does that, because I'm sure you've probably faced it, you're very vocal in space. I know I've faced it. I'm numbing death threats at this point. Especially on social media.

I get them so much, it's just like, oh okay, you wanna see me dead? I can literally tweet out, thank you God for blessing me with another day of life, and somebody be like, I was praying you died. Literally, every day. That's crazy. But what they don't know is, when they do stuff like that,

you're just showing how much you dine inside. You're showing how miserable your life is. But how powerful we are, and then they see like, tell them, they say, why would they ever want to give that away? Because they see us, they've done would they ever want to give that away because they see us they've done everything they possibly can to keep a whole community a whole

set of people down we continue to climb the ladder but that's because we divine I always say that like when I be speaking about black privilege right and people hear me say that and it's like oh there's no such thing as black privilege but I'm not talking about something systemic I'm talking about something spiritual you know what I'm saying I really do feel like it's a privilege

and an honor to be in this black skin, and I feel like where their power lies systemically, our power lies spiritually. And I feel like that's why things are shifting now. Because for, I'm not going to say for the first time, but for the first time in probably a long time, it's the collected mindset of black people saying, no, something has to change.

And they're putting energy towards that and speaking it into the universe. And it's just like, things are literally shifting around us systemically. Now we're getting the chance to really get like some systemic change happening. So I think it's a beautiful thing. At the end of the day, when this year is over,

we're going to look back and be like, that was the year that was the catalyst to change. You know, I face a lot of kickback personally because I'm biracial. You know, my mom is italian my dad is black and people are like well how are you so this isn't that because i've seen the good and bad on both sides i've got it i wasn't growing up i was never white enough i was never black enough so i've seen the good side and bad side from both sides but there was an incident in high school that kkk came in on nearly damn near burned my high school down and that's when i realized like no matter how

proud i am to be biracial like i'm looked at as a black man you look pure nigga to me that KKK came in and nearly, damn near burned my high school down. And that's when I realized, like, no matter how proud I am to be biracial, like, I'm looked at as a black man. And that's how I speak. You look pure nigga to me. 100%. I never knew he was biracial until you said it. Hey, when you meet his daddy, you're like, yeah, you a 100% nigga.

You meet his daddy, bro. His daddy out the chain. 2.15 in the morning. That's how purple he is. Yeah. People don't understand. Like, what are you talking about? You're half white.

I'm just like, you're right. And I'm very proud to be that. But in this world, you're not, as a biracial person, you don't get a choice. They make it for you. Like, Obama's biracial. But what is he? Our first black president. Right.

You know what I mean? So if you could drop a drop of black in you, that's what you are. And people have a hard time, even from the black side. You ain't black. I'm just like, all right. You got you got me you know what i mean so it's just like it's there's a lot of inter battles amongst the bigger battles that need to kind of cease and understand man if we come together as black and brown and then all of our other allies throughout the rainbow of colors we can really make a change but that's the only way we're going to do it it's not just going to be basketball in the bubble it It's not just going to be celebrities.

It's going to take all of us together to change something we didn't create in the first place. Do you feel like a sense of privilege? Me? Yeah. Never. Never, right? Never have I. And people think, well, you're rich because I work my motherfucking ass off.

Just with the ladies. But people, like you said earlier, like, Jack, stand down. You stand down you're rich like people that's the front when you got money You don't feel like we came from this this movie came from food stamps. We came from sharing bedrooms We came from moving what I came from drugs and drug abuse and violence and you know all that kind of shit I mean privilege from the white side no good if we know because I never saw I Wouldn't say privilege. I get lucky because I play basketball sometimes, so they'll recognize that side. But as far as just, nah. Because regular everyday life of police officer can't tell that you're half white.

Uh-uh. And don't care. Don't give a fuck. If you tell him that, he'd probably be like, we got somebody here on drugs right now. Can you send more, send backup, please? What do you feel like the NBA's role has been um in the bubble and did you kind of like the idea of them going back or did you think they shouldn't I like the idea until Steven made me think twice about it when he said

I was all for it so I saw Steven say man they don't need to come back we need to you know this is a chance to get some real change and I I was like, damn. So that was a whole other conversation that started. Should they go back? Should they not go back? And I felt like they should have went back because I knew eventually the news cameras were going to go away from the protest. Right. And being that I knew the news cameras were going to go away,

we needed those brothers on that stage to do exactly what they're doing. Continuing to push. You know what I mean? To keep that conversation going. They did. LeBron did. And I heard you say it on, I think it was the first episode of All the Smoke, where you was talking about how the little known players.

The lesser known. Just the lesser known players. They didn't have a voice. We wouldn't have heard them. Exactly. But now when they speak at that bubble, it resonates. Yeah, the NBA logo. And that was my only push.

And Jack and I agreed to disagree and both saw points on both sides because we were on opposite spectrums. I thought just what you said like their voice is much stronger it's going to resonate it's going to go around the world when they have the NBA logo behind it individually we're going to hear LeBron we're going to hear CP but do we hear Doc's plea do we hear George Hill's plea do we hear Fred Van Pleet like we don't hear these other pleas if we're not together in that bubble. What do you feel like now that we're coming to an end to keep the momentum going that the NBA in particular can do to keep this message going? I don't, to be honest with you, I'm not sure outside of, like, real donations into the black community.

Like, I saw the number that they put up. I think it was like $300 million over 10 years. That ain't shit for the NBA. No. Hell no. Thank you. But then how do we know where it's going, though? How do we know

where it's going? For 30 owners, that's my thing. I think the owners should step up because, to be honest with you, a lot of these owners are on the exact opposite side

of where their players stand. The exact opposite side. And when you're an owner, you're a billionaire, you have these connections to be able to start conversations, open up dialogues in whatever political avenue you're in. You know what I mean? So I just think it's more of, because a lot of them didn't want to talk. There are some that went out of their way to talk. There's a lot of coaches that went out of their way to talk,

but a lot of them sat on their, kept their mouth shut and sat on their hands. You know what I mean? So to me, it's more about align with your players, understand what your players are talking about, even if you may not completely agree, but just have this conversation. And we need the owners and players to come more together. And you hit it on the head. 300 million sounds like a lot to the average people, but over 10 years. Hell no. If you think about it, these owners are playing each, you know, their two-star players over 300 million.

You know what I mean? So it's not for 30 people to come. I think it's a great start, but I think it's not enough. And we have to continue to keep pressure on them because their arenas are in these predominantly poor cities. And people have to budget a whole month's salary to go to a game and take a family and to get food and to buy merchandise and that kind of stuff. I like Robert Smith's 2% plan where he wanted all of these top corporations to put 2% of their net income into black-owned banks. Because then the black-owned banks could take care, basically, of the community. People can go there and get loans, you know, house loans, whatever it is.

That's dope. That's something the NBA should commit to. Because a lot of these problems that we have in these communities can be fixed by people with money. They don't got to wait on government. So they should be talking. And I also think the NBA needs something kind of like the NFL has

with the Inspire Change thing. You know what I mean? Like, the thing Roc Nation is heading. Like, they need somebody to dictate where that money goes.

Like, give it to the brothers that's already on the ground doing things. And it's not necessarily a big name. Some of these big name corporations are just sucking money away

and it's not, we don't have no, but get in touch. You should have like a city leader in every city that you trust or some kind of liaison that tells you like, you know, that group over there is really doing something for that. That group over there is this. So let's allocate. Let's throw them three million. Let's throw them seven. You know what I mean?

So to really know where the money is because until you're walking, because every neighborhood is different. Houston's problems and Atlanta's problems are different than the problems in Sacramento and Oakland. You know what I mean? So you have to be in tune with who's in these cities to see which programs best fit and best work in these cities. But there needs to be transparency on where this money is definitely going. I thought the NBA did a great job of keeping the players safe,

first and foremost, with being in the bubble and being tested and doing a great job at that. And then you see this administration, reckless, maskless, calling it a hoax, making fun of whatever. And now the president has it. What kind of irony is that? I don't think that's irony. I think he earned it. I think he earned it, and he got exactly what he deserved. Like, if you're going to throw your middle finger to something and act like it doesn't exist, that's usually the thing that punches you right in your face. And that's what happened with COVID. And what did he say when he got the number of how many people died?

Is it is what it is? It is what it is. It is what it is. And so you cannot feel bad for people feeling like that towards him. Now, I'm the type of person, I don't wish death on nobody. I don't wish death on him at all. But I don't even believe he really got the shit. He would have to die in order for me to believe that he really got it.

I'm being honest with you, because it's October. We got that whole October surprise thing going on. You saw someone tweeted maybe two weeks ago, this is going to be, I posted it the other day, this is going to be Trump's October surprises. He's going to be sick and he he's gonna dominate the headlines for two weeks on how hard he's working with these fake Pictures of him working and scribbling his name on absolutely like the gimmicks are incredible And it might be a cash out plan right if he know that he leaving in November right? You know he getting voted out. He might have an investment into the pharmaceutical company

And he's out there telling people he's taking these experimental cocktails. I saw the stock shoot up for, um, it's something with an R. Bleach? No, no. It's something with an R. I can't remember the name of the pharmaceutical company. But it shot up 2% after he told everybody he took this experimental cocktail.

And they from Queens. He from Queens. The people, the founders of the company. I don't know. That's just how I be thinking. I think everything is conspiracy theory. He's always had a mean mean hustle to me before this presidency and before he kind of showed his head or whatever hand he's had to play to get to where he's at he's always had a mean he hasn't always won but he's always been a mean hustling business happy trying to benefit you got a motive

and everything you're doing bro i mean it's what role would you like to see the black community play, not only amongst us coming together, but on the federal level and the state level of power? We need more black people wanting to be a part of that system. You know what I'm saying? Because even though I think the whole system needs to be overhauled, everything. I think they need to start over. We need to write a whole new constitution, a whole new bill of rights, everything. Because we were not at that table when those things were initially written. But until we can do that, we got to have people that are in these positions of power and we have to empower them in order to be able to give them the strength they need to stand up to that system. Because what happens is a lot of us get in those positions and we just go along to get along. You know what I'm saying? We're not trying to rock the boat too much. It's just like, so what's the point of you being there? We don't need black faces in those positions and we just go along to get along you know what i'm saying we're not trying to rock the boat too much it's just like so what's the point of you being there right

we don't need black faces you know in those spaces just because i want you in there because you care about our interests so i would encourage like when i see scarface running for political office in houston i like that yeah i want to do some shit like that yeah i know you want to run for mayor i want to see killer mike get in the positive I want to see people that I know have our interests at heart get involved. Now, a lot of us might be scared because we know them background checks is crazy. But who cares? You know what I'm saying? So are theirs, though.

So are theirs. Absolutely. Their background's crazy, too. Absolutely. So I just want to see more of us in those positions of power. And I want them to know that we got their back and we're empowering them to really show up as their full selves. That's really the biggest thing, right?

You're right because that's been our biggest problem. We're scared to get behind our brother and even though we know he ain't going in that direction, we're scared to get behind him because we want to lead instead of just following him and being a team player. That's our biggest problem. I always say you can get way more done when you stop worrying about who you get the credit for. Right. I mean, that's a Doc Rivers thing. Be a star in your role. I mean say you can get way more done when you stop worrying about who you get the credit for. Right.

I mean, that's a Doc Rivers thing. Be a star in your role. I mean, everyone has a role to play. We all have a role to play in together. We know who the leaders are. When I see Tameka Mallory as my leader. Yeah. If you have to call yourself the leader, you're probably not the leader.

You're probably not the leader. If you have to give yourself a nickname, my nigga, that's not really your nickname. You know what I mean? Your nickname is I'm killer. Right. Someone else is supposed to... You're so dope at what you're doing is how you're supposed to be a leader or how you get these nicknames.

So, anyway, so how do we get to this point? Your upbringing, your parents, Jehovah Witness, your dad went from Jehovah to practicing Islam. What was that like growing up in a situation like that? I mean, you know, when you're a kid, you don't really have no say in the matter. You know, my grandmother's a Baptist, my mom a Jehovah Witness. When mom said, get up and it's time to go to the Kingdom Hall, it's time to go to the Kingdom Hall. When my dad gets this fellowship from the Kingdom Hall and he gets into Islam and he hands me the autobiography of Malcolm X, I read the autobiography of Malcolm X.

When he hands me Message to the Black Man by Elijah Muhammad, I read Message to the Black Man by Elijah Muhammad. When he tells me to sit down and you're going to watch these speeches from Donovan Minifigures, I sit down and I watch those speeches. It's really just about what sticks with you as you get older. And what I realize is a little bit of all of it, the stuff that Jehovah's Witnesses taught, it stuck with me. You know, except for the holidays. My wife and kids love the holidays.

So we definitely do Christmas. But being a Muslim, Islam, like all of that stuff sticks. I don't really consider myself anything, but there's a little bit of everything from all of them. You got to relearn yourself. You got to reteach yourself too. A lot of stuff that I was taught as a kid,

I don't believe now because as a man, an adult, I understand stuff differently. You know, so a lot of stuff was told. You got to see it in a point of view. But a lot of stuff was told to you as a kid

to really, to put a band band-aid over some shit. That's right. And not really give you the full understanding. That's right. But as you become an adult, some of those things you don't believe, you understand now. I heard you say, I don't even know what show it was, we were just talking off air, Blame It On The Weed, Not My Heart, that you've learned more in this last six, eight months than you remember learning your whole life.

Yeah. Like, you educated yourself and made the effort to educate yourself. Because I want to know what I'm talking about. You know, I ain't never talked to you about going back to school and getting my history degree. You know what I'm saying? I'm in the process of doing that

because it sparked, when bro died, it sparked something. God put me in a position that I didn't ask for, like I always say. But it sparked something that was supposed to happen. And my heart is in the right place. So everything that I'm trying to do, I want to know what I'm talking about and be educated, like I always say. But it sparked something in me that was supposed to happen. And my heart is in the right place. So everything that I'm trying to do, I want to know what I'm talking about and be educated about what I'm saying.

I feel the same way. I just know that I'm never going to be as smart as some people. Like, you hear Michael Eric Dyson talk. Oh, yeah, nah. You hear Killer Mike talk. You be like, hey, man, they just got it. I just want it. Some of the words that I can't understand.

To me, my thing is just knowing what I'm talking about. I can't be, you know what I mean? Some people are blessed to be educated and be able to just spit that. Like some of these rap, like Jay-Z is just very intelligent. He can just put it out there. I just want to have a proper understanding of things. Right. And even when we go back talking about religion, I remember when I started doing personal Bible study with one of the brothers at the kingdom.

I would come to my mom's house and do personal study with me. And as I started to read the Bible for myself, a lot of it just didn't make sense. Like I said, Adam was the first man, Eve was the first woman, they had Cain, they had Abel. Cain kills Abel and goes off and finds a wife. I thought there was only four people on the planet. What happened? You know what I mean?

And it's just like, I remember reading Deuteronomy 14.8. I think Deuteronomy 14.8 says, you should not touch the flesh of a dead pig, nonetheless eat it. And I remember asking the brother about that because we're from the South, we love pork. He's like, oh, if you pray over the food, you know, it's cool, it's good. So I'm like,

the Bible also says don't have sex before marriage. So if I pray over the pussy before I have sex with it... Same, same? He couldn't explain that as easy as he did the pork, though. I never understood it. It's really both pork.

They both pork. They both pork. As a teen, you got in your fair share of trouble selling drugs, witnessed a shooting, got arrested, had to go to jail, and you sat down for 41 days. Charlemagne had that pack? Yeah. I mean, you know what it was? I was in high school getting in so much trouble right

and like my dad was my dad my dad is a street dude like he comes from that like you know my dad had his bouts with alcohol and cocaine but he also was a guy that was good with his hands so he had his construction business as well you know i mean so he had kind of like that balance but he knew that the lifestyle i was living he would always say say, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree. That was his thing to me. And so when I started getting in so much trouble in school, I got kicked out of two high schools. I got kicked out of Berkeley High School in Montecito. What kind of trouble was it, though?

Disruption, man. Okay. I mean, you're in class. South Carolina. Yeah, you're cutting up in class, class clowns, fighting, just doing dumb shit. Whatever. Just dumb kid shit. And so then they transferred me to Scrapper

because that's where my mom went to school at. And it's just like, that was around 16, 17. So then you start dabbling into other things. You know, you see your boys selling weed. You see your boys selling a little dope. And you're like, well, let me get into that. Let me try to figure it out. Absolutely.

You know, and then I'm just the guy who hung around those guys for a while before I got involved. But the first time I went to jail, one of my homeboys shot at somebody. And, you know, that whole no snitching thing. So when they come to pick us up, it's just like, all right. Everybody got hit with a, it was an assault and battery with an attempt to kill charge. Everybody got, everybody.

How old were you at that age? I think 16, 17. They came and got me from high school. And I was either repeating 10th grade or I think I was repeating 10th grade. So therefore, I was supposed to be in 11th grade. So they were looking at 11th grade classes and they had to go to 10th grade classes? Most motherfuckers say either I was in the 9th grade or the 10th grade. It looks like either I was repeating 10th grade.

Oh, no, no, no. Once I got to high school, it was all bad. I failed 9th grade, then went to summer school, passed, went to 10th, then failed 10th. And when I failed 10th, I think my pops was like, nah, you staying in 10th. So I stayed in 10th. Because I was supposed to graduate in 96. I graduated in 98. Same with me.

Oh, for real? Yeah, but I'm just regular. That's what I was supposed to graduate in. Oh, that was your class? Yeah, I'm 96. We're 96. Yeah, we're the same age. OK, OK.

Yeah, Jack said he checked out in like 10th grade, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I really checked out. I really checked out. You didn't graduate high school? Yeah, I graduated, said he checked out in like 10th grade too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really checked out. I really checked out. You didn't graduate high school? Yeah, I graduated, but I checked out the way before that. Two, three years before that. And you were playing ball too?

It was all about hoop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was all about hoop. It was ball and pussy. The teachers was cool with it though. They didn't care. Yeah, they was cool with it back then. Now they ain't telling on you.

They was part of the plan back then. They rocking with it. They want to see you make it. Right. Now they got their own motives What was the path that got you going into radio, how did you know that was your calling or did it happen you wanted it? How did it honestly man radio was the first thing that I ever did in my life that felt Constructive and positive because before that like i was running the streets the

first time you know when you first get out of jail you got to get a job right so i worked at and just real accoutre company it's like a warehouse got fired from there two weeks then i worked at a flower garden i worked there for a week that that shit was modern day slavery it was like me and a bunch of mexicans out there and i'm like this ain't for me like so i quit that after a week and then i don to say modern day slavery either. I hate when people compare things to slavery. But it wasn't for me.

Then I worked at a clothing store called Demo in the Mall. I remember Demo. Yep. And then I did telemarketing. So I was the guy that would call your house and try to sell you 10 CDs for a penny.

And I worked at Taco Bell at one point. My sister, she fired me after two weeks. But I'm saying all that to say I wanted to do anything except for be in the street That's it, I did not want to be in the street whatsoever So your sister fired you after two weeks?

After two weeks She was the manager? She was the manager She hired me and fired me after two weeks How much free Taco Bell did you get during that time? Too much That's why you got five I remember the Taco Bell plug in high school was the lit

But that's why I just wanted to do something positive And I remember reading this acronym for peace, and it was positive energy activates constant elevation. So I knew as long as I'm out here doing something positive, things will grow, things will grow, things will grow. And then like most dudes in the hood, I wanted to rap. I'm clearly too short to want to play ball. So it's just like the people who I saw on TV that were successful,

that looked like me, were usually in rap or athletics. I started picking up the pen and writing. and I remember being in this recording studio. I met this guy named Willie Will and he did local radio at D93 Jazz in Charleston. I just asked him, I said, how'd you get into radio? He was like, I went down there and I got an internship. I'm like, yo, is that easy? He was like, yeah. Now this is 1998 in Charleston, South Carolina, so I ain't had to be in college and none of

that. And so that's what I did. I went down there and I got an internship and Like just being in that environment Like the radio, you know what I mean watching artists come in and out and being a concert stuff I'm like, this is what I want to spark something. That's it. Yeah, what I want to do. When did you come to New York? How were you 2006 came to New York for the first or not the first time I had been to New York once before I ain't I didn't get on a plane until I was like 21 years old, 21, 22 years old. I don't even remember when that was. I remember I came up here because my people's Never So Deep Records, Dr. Robert Evans, his son,

Bless, they had a studio, I mean a record label called Never So Deep. So they was up here mixing records and I flew up here with them for one weekend. But then to live up here, I came here in 2006 and that's because Wendy Williams and her husband, they were looking for a co-host. I didn't even know. And I happened to be up here with them for a party and she invited me on her show. And I was on her show for like 20, 25 minutes. And literally that night they was offering me her co-host slot. But it was like, yo, we can't pay you. We can give you a place to stay. I'm like, shit, I'm making $8 an hour in Columbia, South Carolina right now. I might as well make that move to New York and see what happens.

And that's what I did. I worked with her for a year and a half for free. How was that? It was the best and worst time of my life. Learned a lot, I'm sure. Learned a lot from her just because she's such a great radio personality, such a great media personality. But I also learned how not to treat people when you are in that position that they were in you know what I'm saying I always say that was the

best and the worst experience of my of my life cuz yeah they were terrible to people I wonder cuz I don't know and I don't like to judge but you hear that about Ellen and how she had to hold do a whole makeshift with her crew behind the scenes because people said they weren't treated right so it's that that kind of stuff used to fly under the radar but that shit's not flying no more and it's a good position to be in now though because once you call somebody like Ellen out the only apology is change behavior so now her staff probably getting car services and bonuses and can I help you? Do you need something? Yeah, rose petals being thrown on the floor as they walk, all types of stuff,

because that's the only way that she can rectify that. Prove it. So you had a learning experience with Wendy, which catapulted you a few years later into The Breakfast Club. How did you and Jen Envy come together? Well, I got fired from Wendy November of 2008. That was just because the economy was

in the toilet, so everybody was getting fired. I got fired on November 2nd. And the reason I remember that is because President Barack Obama became President-elect on November 3rd. So I got fired November 2nd. They fired like 30 people. So I was cool with that even though I had too much pride to go collect unemployment. You know what I mean? My wife was working at the time

so she was holding it down with the bills and stuff. And then my daughter, my first daughter, born june of that year so i was just a stay-at-home dad and then i got put on the radio in philly like around may of 2009 and so i worked in philly for like eight nine months and got fired again and that time i went home i was like man i said this city's your name for me i'm going back to south carolina we all packed up me my now wife my first daughter we going back to South Carolina. We all packed up, me, my now wife, my first daughter. We went back to South Carolina. I stayed there for a year.

But prior to that, I always had kept in touch with my man G-Spin, you know. And G-Spin was the assistant program director at Power 105 at the time. And he was the one that kind of like, he had bought Envy in. He had me on the radar. And then he was telling Cadillac Jack Jack who's another mentor of mine just about us constantly and so it literally man I was in New York for the summer once and I and that summer of 09 I remember hitting up G-Spin like yo I'm in town he was like yo come to the station right now so we I went to the station and when I went to the station he was like yo my my boss Cadillac

Jack he's been in here watching your videos all morning because me and Duval was doing a little Duval was doing the Hood State of the Union, which was like a web series that we would do. We would just talk about topics, you know, before podcasts. That's what we were doing. And Cadillac was like, yo, man, we had this whole conversation. He actually asked me about Wendy's husband because I had had a meeting with him before. And Wendy's husband was with me and when unbeknownst to me when we had left the meeting everybody that worked in that building was like yo you cannot hire Charlemagne if Wendy's husband is his manager really that guy is bad news right so I remember him saying to me uh is that still your manager and I said no he said why I said because when I

pray to God to take negativity out of my life he's's not swinging at things. He's swinging at people that are the embodiment of that negativity. And I'm like, he was like, oh, okay. And then he was like, how long can you wait for this job? And I'm like, for this?

Whenever the opportunity presents itself. And then like, I think we started November that year. That was 2010. You guys are 10 years deep now, right? Yeah. Next month, next month will be 10 years.

Yeah. Whenever they say, I don't know what they're saying, but yeah month. Next month will be 10 years. Whenever they say it, I don't know what it's saying, but yeah, November. November will be 10 years. Who were some of the most memorable interviews you had from the beginning to up to current? Man, that's such a broad question because I really sat down in front of people that I never thought I'd be sitting down in front of. You know what I'm saying?

I've been doing radio 22 years. When I sit back and I think about when I first started, I've sat down with Senator Clinton, Senator Hillary Clinton. Senator. Sat down with the Honorable Minister of the Fire Con quite a few times. I've sat down with Dick Gregory, you know, Angela Bassett.

Like, stuff like that freaks me out. Like, that's Angela Bassett. Like, I don't know how everybody else feel about her, but me, I'm like, yo, I've sat down with Magic Johnson. Like, I got to ask magic about catching hiv like you know i mean like and asking him a question that i've always thought about like when you first got it did you think about every little woman that you've been with throughout your whole life and be like damn i bet you it was a young lady from sacramento and he was like

hell yeah you know what i'm saying from Sacramento. And he was like, hell yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's fucked up. He said Sacramento. Go ahead. No. But it's just like those conversations. I never thought I'd be able to ask the stuff I've always thought about with people to them. Right. You know what I mean?

So it's just like, man, I can't sit here and say which one is more memorable because sitting down with Lorenz Tate is memorable to me. Right. You know what I mean? Like sitting down with Neil Long is memorable to me. This is memorable. Sitting down with a vice president, Joe Biden, any of those ones that go viral.

Like, you know what I mean? Like all of these people mean something to me in, in, in various ways. Was there a person or a time you felt kind of like, damn, I just interviewed so-and-so.

Like, I feel like I've made it now. Was there a time like a, that light came on? When did you feel like you had made it? like, damn, I just interviewed so-and-so. Like, I feel like I've made it now. Was there a time, like, that light came on? When did you feel like you had made it? Nah. No? Nah. I still, no. Because, you know, we live in such a fast-paced world. You're only as good as your last conversation. Yeah, you don't have time to sit and

So it's just like, I'm supposed to just sit back and be cool because Hillary Clinton talked about hot sauce. It's like, nah, what's next? And then literally, you know what's so crazy? That week, that Hillary Clinton hot sauce thing was Monday. that friday was bird man put some respect on monday so it's just like that's the way it moves it moves just that fast like hillary be your biggest interview on a monday literally that was our biggest interview ever on a monday and then friday no this is really your biggest like numbers wise analytical analytic wise this

is your biggest interview ever so So it's just like, I don't know, I don't never feel like I've made it. I haven't got to that feeling. I did get to a place of worthy. I got to that place last December.

You know what I mean? Just feeling like I'm worthy. Like not dealing with imposter syndrome. Like feeling like I'm right where I'm supposed to be because God wants me to be here.

Everything you get, you deserve. Absolutely. Yes, sir. But I never felt like, you know, I've made it. Who are some of the people you looked up to in this space or who have actually mentored you to be here. Everything you get, you deserve. Absolutely. Yes, sir. But I never felt like, you know, I've made it. Who are some of the people you looked up to in this space

or who have actually mentored you in this space? Oh, man, so many. I mean, from afar, people like Petey Green. You know, I love... Petey Green. You saw the movie?

That shit was dope. You know, there's a movie called Talk to Me that Don Chida played. Yeah, that's classic, man. And like, Petey is like... Petey is what I think every black radio personality should be, you know? And he reminded me so much of me because he didn't have no formal training.

Like he was a voice in jail, you know? Like that's how he basically got discovered and ended up getting put on the radio, you know? So it's just like him, the Tom Joyners of the world. Because when it comes to the business of radio, those are the brothers that figured it out early. They figured out that ownership part of it early. Steve Harvey, Doug Banks, Sway, Big Boy, Angie Martinez, Wendy Williams. The beauty of it, some of these people I've actually gotten a chance to get game from. I worked with Wendy for three years.

In your circle. I talk to Angie Martinez now often. Big um big boy he works at iHeart like me and him have conversations Sway's always giving me games so it's just like I learned from all of them you know what I mean because they all paved the way for me to even be doing what I'm doing you mentioned ownership which I love. You've recently teamed up with iHeart and created Black Effect. Can you tell us

what that's about? Yeah, the Black Effect podcast network, man. It's like the audio business is booming, you know? And I've been with Breakfast Club for 10 years, but I've been doing

my own podcast, The Brilliant Idiots, for like six years, you know? So I had a 10% ownership stake in a podcast network called Loudspeaker, you know? So I've been watching, you know, just the inner workings of the podcast game from that perspective for a long time.

And then, you know, when you sit back and you start seeing Bill Simmons doing what he's doing with The Ringer and you see what Gimlet is doing and you see what Anchor is doing, you see what Barstool is doing, you sit back and you're like, well, why there's no black network like that?

You know what I mean? You got these networks that have black shows, but what is the network that's like majority on black? And it's really paying attention to what's going on in our culture and really knows the voices that needs to be amplified. It's just like, hmm, let me build that. So that's where my mind has been for like the past three or four years. And I knew my my contract was up in December.

I think I put myself in a position to where they would want to negotiate with me. You know, I think I got a little bit of that. Did he cause it black leverage? You know, so I was like, look, man, you know, I don't want to be talent. Like, you know, you already know I'm in this podcast space. You know, I'm going to take this somewhere. So let's figure it out. Yeah. You know?

I love you. And they was with it. It was no hesitation. Like, literally no hesitation. So we created this whole other company called the Black Effect Podcast Network. I'm majority owner of it, you know, along with iHeart. And it's enabling me to use their resources and their finances to invest in us.

And I love it too, because like we said, with the allocation of the NBA money, they need to be able to work with pillars in those communities. You're a pillar of our community. So like you said, you're able to use iHeart's resources and all the amazing shit that comes with iHeart to help focus on us and help grow us. And, you know, I'm

excited to obviously having all The Smoke as a partner. Man, I'm so happy that y'all partnered. I remember when they hit me and they was like, yo, we might have a chance to partner with All The Smoke. I'm like, do it. I'm like, do it. Give them whatever they want. You know what I mean?

And it was like, same thing, Black Leverage, because y'all got numbers. Mm-hmm. Ain't no, like, they can't front on y'all. They can't tell y'all what they think y'all should get. The numbers don't lie. There's a market value, and you either got to meet that or don't.

We know what we work. We appreciate it, man. Like I said, we obviously, Showtime. Shout out Showtime. Shout out to Showtime. But yeah, now, iHeart and Black Effect, we're proud to be a out show time. Yeah. Now I heart and black effect. We're proud to be a part of that family too. You know, you and I talk once a week on just strategizing and how can, that was the first thing I told when I, when I, when we got over there,

I was like, bro, I want to help you really grow this shit. Like, you know, I'm not just a talking head on a podcast, like less, like they put someone in control now that really has a pulse for our culture. So that made me excited. Like that gave me hope. Like, okay, here we come. And what would I, I hit him the other day. I was like, what you think about a black bar stool? And he's like, shit, that's what we're trying to do? That's what I... It's funny, you just said that the whole time

when we was on the elevator, you called him the black Bill Simmons. Bill Simmons. Bill Simmons, yeah. Because I told you he was about to cash out, like Bill did. I told Matt, I'm like, yo, that's what I see all the smoke eventually being.

He wants us to give us a little... Let me tell him. Yeah, I want to see all the smoke have, all the Smoke needs is its network. It's on land. Where they just rolling out those voices in sports that are like y'all. You know what I'm saying? Like there's a, and only y'all know that. Only Matt and Steven know who those other voices are that are like y'all.

Those guys that are cut from that cloth. They're attractive. Absolutely. That's why this show works. Plenty of sports guys have gotten cut from that cloth. They're attractive. Absolutely. That's why this show works. Plenty of sports guys have gotten together and done shows. We ain't never seen sports from a real nigga perspective. Right. Never.

And that's just the truth to the matter. Yeah. I've also liked that you've been for a while. Like you said, you've had your podcast. You've dabbled in TV with productions. You have the Emerging Hollywood on YouTube. One thing that I thought was really dope, though, because we've been hearing your growth and your evolution as not only a black man but a businessman as well. But one thing that touched me was the Wi-Fi situation that you provided.

Was it in Columbia? Yeah, Columbia, South Carolina. Talk to us about that, because that shit, just like, that was so dope. Yeah, my man, Mayor Steven Benjamin, you know what I'm saying, Steve Benjamin, black man,

Columbia, South Carolina. That's why local politics is so important, because I can't pick up the phone and get to the president, you know what I mean? But I'm from South Carolina. I've lived in Columbia. My wife went to the University of South Carolina.

I can pick up the phone and hit my man, Steve, and it's just a matter of like, yo, Steve, what does the city need right now? Because I usually do a book bag drive every year. And I've been doing that for years in my hometown of Moncks Corner, but that just didn't feel right this year. So I just reached out to Steve and he was like, man, that's so, I'm so happy you hit me. And he introduced me to this company called Ignite Cities. And basically what Ignite Cities is doing is making sure that people have Wi-Fi in these various areas. You know, and it was just like, yo, this is how much it's going to cost and they can make it happen. I'm like, that's easy. You know, so now that I did it, it gets the ball rolling on the city because now the city look kind of crazy.

Like, oh, man, we letting one of our citizens outdo us. So now, the next round, they got to handle that. So it's just like, you know, that's why I don't really like to talk about things like that. But I realize it's just like why people stunt, right? People stunt and they get inspired. You see somebody with a car that you want, and you're like, damn, I want that.

You see somebody with a chain, and you're like, oh, I want that. Well, I want to do that now. Like I said, the fact that I saw you do that i was going to ask you how because i want to get to the point like people don't understand like we're in a new i mean i have kids and we're on online school and that shit is terrible but i couldn't imagine if my kids couldn't get online and get their schoolwork done you know what'd you say you saw some kids trying to take wi-fi from taco bell they're sitting right next to taco bell yeah it was an article i read and it was these kids they was literally doing their homework at Taco Bell.

In the parking lot. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that. And Steve had already told me about it. Benjamin, when I read that article, and he told me, I was like, man, we got to do this ASAP. Right. Let's get this done. I'm trying to do that in Sacramento, too,

so I need to get that info. I'm going to talk. Word. How important has it been for you in your journey like i said i just sang your praises but how important has it been for you to empower the black voice not only in your space but in the athletic space in the politics space in the community space that's all i care about like if i was an nba player i would definitely want to lead the league and assist more than scoring points like that's all i care about like literally like i've always regardless of what platform i was on whether

it was breakfast club whether it was my podcast whether it was the shows i was doing on viacom like uncommon sense like i always want to give everybody else an opportunity you know what i mean because i feel like that's how you live forever right eventually your star is gonna burn out eventually people gonna get tired of seeing you front and center all the time. So what keeps you alive? What keeps you alive is who you open the door for. When I look at guys like Jay-Z, like look at all the fruit off Jay-Z's tree. Dr. Dre.

No, Rihanna. Oh, yeah. Rihanna and Kanye and J. Cole, all the people like that. That's what I'm saying. Dr. Dre is another person who got fruit people like that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Dray. Dray is another person who got fruit from a tree. You know what I mean? Like, I want to be that.

Like, you want to be that guy that you empowered so many people. But you're doing it in a new space, though, too. A new space. You're doing it in a new space. Music has been, they've had their struggles, don't get me wrong, and they've been able to do it. But you're in this multimedia space that has been and still is dominated by a certain culture. Yeah, I just want to do it for the things that

I know I'm good at. Like, I'm good in the audio space. I'm good in the book world. You know what I'm saying? So being that I'm good in those spaces, I can provide opportunities in those spaces. Right. That's what's up. That's my fucking interview that's been going on. To me, this has been the most smooth interview we've done.

Just on pace, on beat, from thing to thing. It's flowing. He even slid in a couple questions. Yeah. You know it's still in it. We're coming to the end. This shit went by quick as fuck. Top five hip-hop albums in your mind.

Before you start, Good Trouble. Eight songs I'm dropping on George Floyd's birthday. I'm going to send it to you early, though. Good Trouble? Yeah, it's called Good Trouble. Okay. I know you got Dre on there. It's just me on there.

Oh, all right. Just me. Okay. Self plug. That's why we got a show. Top five. We can either do albums or we can do artists. Yeah, it's easy for me to do artists.

Okay, let's do artists. And I really do me to do artists. Okay, let's do artists. And I really do have a top seven. Okay, let me hear it. My top seven is Jay-Z. Number one? He probably means the most. Ghostface is my favorite rapper of all time. But Jay-Z is probably the most important rapper of all time to me. Right?

Then Scarface, Loveface, T.I., Jeezy, Killer Mike, and Nas. That's my top seven that I can go listen to any of their albums at any given time and be content. Who's yours? My top five or seven? Top five or seven? What are the top five or seven? I'm going Pac, Jay-Z, Face, Nas, Bun B. Yeah, Bun Cole.

Bun Cole. We forget about Bun only because he was part of a group. If I name groups, I'm putting you, GK. You know what I'm saying? But we forget about how cold Bun is, man. Yeah. I got Pac. I got Big.

I got Jay. I got Snoop. I got Nip. I was about to say, as much as you listen to Nip, bro, you got to put Nip in yours. I love Nip. I love, man, Nip, that legacy, that's what you call a stolen legacy, man. So fast. See, I gotta listen.

My brother always puts me on the music, so when I was coming to LA in 2009, 10, he was like, you gotta listen to Nip. Same. Like, he just, he don't fuck with him. So I started listening to his shit and instantly fell in love and then I came to the Lakers the next season, so I hit dude on a DM and instantly fell in love. And then I came to the Lakers the next season. So I hit dude on a DM and he hit me right back. I was like, yo, new to the Lakers.

You know, went to UCLA, come to a game, came to a game and just hit it off with him. I mean, he's genuine down to earth. And then I've seen him evolve from when he was riding around the little shows and I'd be following him to shows and we'd be upstairs. I'd be with a bunch of 60s upstairs on the Lakers smoking weed. Like, is that Matt Barnes from the Lakers back there smoking weed? You know what I mean? So to be able to see his elevation from when I learned on him in 09 to what he left us with. Like you said, that was a star shot down early. I'm saying with my homegirl, Debbie Brown.

She was doing radio in L.A. on K-Days. And when I used to go out there, she used to put me on all the new rappers. So it was Kendrick. It was Nipsey. It was Glasses Malone, Bishop Lamont. And I remember hearing that bullet saying, got no name? I was like, God.

Cole, right? Damn. But his evolution too, the content in which he rapped at, he rapped about his involvement too, and his evolution. You heard it through every project. Man.

Crenshaw, Mailbox Money, up until Victory Lap. And that was what's spooky. To think about, that was his first album though. Victory Lap was his first. I mean, obviously he has, if you know his history, he's got his history. But that was number one. And it was called Victory Lap.

Think about that. Your first debut album on a major label, which ends up being your last album, is called Victory Lap. It's almost like some foreshadowing. Some pox shit. Like, man. He said that. He said he's Tupac, his generation.

We got to ask him a question that we forget to ask our guests. So who do you think should be on our show next? But when you answer that question, you got to be somebody that you can help us get on here. This motherfucker know everybody, too. I know. He said Jay-Z. That's why I said it.

Jay-Z on All the smoke will be fire. I want to see Shaq on here for some reason. I just tapped in with Shaq. Shaq, you've been motherfucking Hollywood in this, bro. We hit you last year. You said you was coming. Then Jack hit you and you said you was coming. Then you disappeared and started doing all these motherfucking commercials.

I just talked to him last week, though. He gave me his new number. He said it's on. He said as soon as the playoffs are over. Playoffs are about to be over, Shaq. Man, we know you got to go to all these banks and make all these deposits because you're getting all this money. But, you know, just make a little time for us, man.

You know why I want to see Shaq on here? Because Shaq, he got some real niggas he's suppressing. Oh, man. Like a motherfucker. But it's only because of the position he's in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think if he get around y'all, we'll let it out. He let it out to me on text messages all the time.

Trust me. He let it out on text messages. Yo, he was one of the craziest team. I can't wait to talk about, man, the shit he used to do in the locker room. If he talks about it, it's going to blow people away. That motherfucker was a 7'2", 360-pound kid. Like, funny as a motherfucker. But see, that's the inside info that y'all have that other people don't have.

He was in the locker room with Shaq. Doing shit. So the conversations are different. Even if you watch a show like Drink Champs with Norrie, the reason Norrie can talk to these guys the way he does is he was on the roll with them. Inside information. That's what A.I. was

saying with us because we've been there. We felt every emotion. I like that, Shaq. Five dinner guests, dead or alive? Oh, man. Donable Elijah Muhammad, Martinq. Five dinner guests, dead or alive. Oh, man. Donable Elijah Muhammad, Martin Luther King Jr., Pop, Nip, and who? Maya Angelou. Considering the climate we're in right now, one book you would recommend for people to read?

Well, for black people? Or just in general? I tell everybody, man, if you've never read A Message to the Black Manijah muhammad that's an amazing book for every black man on this planet to read you know what i mean because there's so many different life lessons that we can apply to what's going on now from politics to diet to you know mental health mindfulness everything it's like the honorable elijah muhammad was was 80 years ahead of everybody when he wrote that book on the flip side people who are trying to align with us, a book you would recommend for them to read or understand us? Honestly, to understand us, man, I think the autobiography of Malcolm X.

And the reason I say the autobiography of Malcolm X is because you see what happens when a black man is put in a certain environment. Right. But you also see what happens when a black person is provided opportunity. Because I always say the greatest book about growth and evolution that I've ever read in my life is the autobiography of Malcolm X. Malcolm Little going to Malcolm X. And I think that's one thing people don't understand about the Nation of Islam. They provide that opportunity for black people that America's not. You know what I'm saying? They provide those tools and those resources for black people that america's not you know what i'm saying they provide those tools and those resources for black people that america's not and that's how you can get a malcolm

little to turn into a model x that's how you can get a cash as clay to turn into a muhammad ali you know what i mean so it's just like i i i think that if white people read that book they would understand that you know black people aren't inherently evil. You know what I mean? This system put us in a fucked up position. And in order for this system to really atone for its sins, it's got to provide things for us to get us out from this fucked up position. And since we know that's not going to happen, we're going to have to do it ourselves.

Straight up. Last question. Who is your one figure you look up to? Dead or Alive? A lot. Oh, that's Jay-Z, for sure. Definitely. Who's yours?

Good question. Explain yours, and then I'll give you mine. Jay-Z for me, and you're so crazy. When I first listened to Jay-Z, I didn't like Jay-Z, only because I come from the South. I was into the gritty, grimy stuff. So it was just like, this dude was talking about so much money and all that big willy talk. I was like, I don't want to hear that.

But the reason I look up to him is because it's just like watching his evolution from coming in the game as a rapper entrepreneur, but the things he used to talk about to all to always when I say always Always showing us where he's at in his life If you listen to every jay-z album you could tell exactly what he was at in his life He went from the player who was kicking girls out at 6 in the morning to now being the husband Family man going to therapy and if you've ever had the pleasure of just being up there rock nation It's just like that's what you would want your company to look like this is family and this is his longtime friends yeah he's really like the blueprint you know and the way he just quietly shows up for his people all the

time like and it's been doing it for years we just getting hip to all of the things that he's done but it's just like when I years. We just getting hip to all of the things that that he's done. But it's just like when I look at him, he's just a good representation of what I think a black man is. Like, you know, you dealt the worst hand. You make you make that you make the best of that hand. You would become a billionaire, but you take your people with you every step of the way. The people that are willing to grow with you, though, the ones that are willing to grow with you. It ain't meant for everybody, but the ones that are that are that are willing to grow with you, though. The ones that aren't willing to grow with you. It ain't meant for everybody, but the ones that are willing

to grow with you and they're supposed to be there, they're still with you. And he represents that to me. Jack, to answer your question, I guess I look at it different, you know, to be able to play as long as I play in the NBA. My transition into this space, there's people I look up to. So he's one of them.

Stephen A. Smith is one of them Michael Strahan who is to me the ultimate because he was able to cross from Professional athlete to sports but then to mainstream media too, and that's what I really want to do like I love sports But I want to transition into like real Life and then Kevin Frazier Kevin Kevin is dope Kevin's helped me in this space. You told me one. I didn't know I could name more. Yeah. Well, Jack surprised me. I wasn't ready for my own question. Who's yours? I think the only person I look up to is my little brother.

But it's simple fact that I wanted to be that guy that dated one woman through high school, had kids by, working, one family, doing everything the right way. I got kids all over the place. Yes, you do. You know what I'm saying? That's only because you're allergic to condoms, so that's not really your fault. That's not what it was. That's not what it was. But seriously, though, no, I honestly look up to my little brother because he's done everything the right way. Obviously, he wanted my life. He wanted to play basketball, but it didn't work out for him. But his life

and the way, the man he is and how he takes care of our whole family when anybody call he there for him that's the that's the man i really want to shout out to snap marley he got some twins too they same age as my twins yeah i got twins and a junior yeah that's crazy you say that about because it's guys that i've you know i'm totally faithful to my wife now. I've been faithful for four years, since October 2016. How long you been with her? 22 years, but that don't end. I like it, though, man. It's a change.

You got to start somewhere. You know what I mean? You gave us a date. With Jack, that is real. It's like, yo, we do look up to these guys that are faithful to their women. Yeah. Early on, you know what I'm saying? Like, I didn't have that kind of discipline.

Well, because you know how tough it is. You know how tough it is. You know how tough it is. I admire anybody that gets, because I've never been perfect when it comes to that. That's the hardest. Did he have options, though? That's another good. Well, I just think he understood what he wanted with his life

at a young age, you know what I'm saying? Like, seeing my grandmother, my grandfather, being together for so long, you know what I'm saying? My mom, you know, she really just dedicated our life to us. It's certain things that triggered him to do things the right way. He was around me. He seen me doing all that stuff. He seen women around me. He was just

so focused on doing things the right way. And that's what I wanted, but I was distracted by other shit. Yeah, I didn't want to do my household the way my father, and I love my pops, you know what I'm saying? But I didn't want to do my household the way I saw him do his household. Same here. You know what I'm saying? He got caught with his dick in the dirt. He's still with the same woman,

so clearly that was meant to be, right? Right. But him and my mom got divorced, and that kind of, like, to me, messed the family up, right? So I didn't want to do that in my house. Right. You know?

I can dig it. Right. Well, that's a wrap. Charlotte, baby, man, we appreciate your time. Thank you. Great show. They've been waiting on this.

Yeah, great show. It feels bad, man. Nah, thank you for having me. That's a wrap. All the smoke. You can find this on Yeah, great sharing. Goodbye, man. Nah, thank you for having me. That's a wrap. All the Smoke. You can find this on Showtime, Basketball YouTube, and the iHeart family, Black Effects. Yes. And All the Smoke Network coming soon.

Coming soon. Fuck it, heard it. You bitch you. You bitch you. Shout out Snoop. This is All the Smoke, a production of the Black Effect and iHeartRadio in partnership with Showtime. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe

not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best. And you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before.

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