The Breakfast Club - Decisions, Decisions: From Porn to the Pulpit (feat. Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord)

Episode Date: February 28, 2026

The Black Effect Presents... Decisions, Decisions!  **Trigger Warning: SA, SH, Trafficking ** This week on Decisions, Decisions, Mandii B and Weezy WTF are joined by Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord, author of From Porn to the Pulpit, as the episode opens with prayer before Danielle shares her introduction to ministry, the difficulty of speaking about mental health, and her early experiences with exploitation while underage, including her pregnancy and the moment her mother learned the truth. She discusses running away after giving birth, entering the stripping industry, the assumptions placed on her about sex work, being introduced to drugs through a church connection, her first client, life on the blade, and her transition from prostitution to porn, including the reality of her clientele, while the conversation also explores morality within sex work, the possibility of returning to a corporate career, the classification of sugar babies, and the demands tied to maintaining a luxury lifestyle. Danielle recounts surviving multiple overdoses, the role of scripture in her life, the emotional response her story brings out in the room, her turning point, a kidnapping in which she believed she would die before being freed by a stranger, and the events that redirected her path back to faith and ministry, along with a discussion on language, her story being adapted into a stage play, and her present-day work. Support Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord: https://linktr.ee/daniellewmm EP 460: From Porn to the Pulpit (feat. Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord) OUT NOW “No Holes Barred: A Dual Manifesto Of Sexual Exploration And Power” w/ Tempest X!Link Follow the hosts on social media Weezy @Weezywtf & Mandii B @Fullcourtpumps and follow the Decisions Decisions pagesInstagram @_decisionsdecisionsDon't forget to tag #decisionsdecisions or @ us to let us know what you think of this week's episode!Want more? Bonus episodes, merch and more Whoreible Decisions!! Become a Patron at Patreon.com/whoreibledecisionsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When I got there, dancing was not a part of the plan. She was basically like dancing ain't it. If you want to see some real money, you got to, you know, you're going to have to sell that thing. And so my choir member from my church was like, yeah, we're not dancing. We're going to be hobs. We had sex one time and I got pregnant at 13 by the 27-year-old pimp. I hid my pregnancy until I was six and a half months pregnant and my water broke. I went from school to the ambulance to the hospital where I gave birth to my first son.

who died in my arms because he was premature. And that's when things kind of took a turn. All of this is 13? 13. Holy like. Yeah. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

Decisions. All right. I know this is funny, but let me just pray real quick before we do it. No, no. We're going to have fun, but we're going to. No, no. Okay. No, this is how we start an episode.

Let's break. We're going to start this episode. Okay, okay, okay. Let me tell you, we haven't heard. held hands than deniers. Whoa. Or if ever, whoa. Wow. Lord, we thank you. We honor you. We give your name, glory. Thank you for this platform. Thank you for this opportunity. We come against any distractions. We come against any flaws. And we just ask God that you would just give us the right answers and the right responses. We pray for the viewers that somebody will laugh, but they will also be transformed,

healed, and delivered through this as well. Bless these hosts as they continue to bring laughter, information, entertainment, in Jesus name, amen. Amen, but also I heard hoes, not host. I just, I did too. I heard hoax. Oh, oh, we both, hold on, we both open her. Hold on, I heard hoax. By the way, hold on, hold on, by the way.

The audience, we got, it was. By the way, we hold the hands. You said hos, we both looked at each other like, we both look at each other like, uh. It's a good host. Oh, we need to click that. I mean, okay. First of all, red heels. Now, I know y'all are looking at your phones, looking at the TV screen, looking at your laptop, like, did I tune into the correct podcast this week?

Y'all welcome. Hallelujah to another episode. No. By the way, they say I sound like a black past all the time. So welcome. Everybody to Decisions Decisions. I'm your girl, Mandy B. What I can't.

I'm her co-exam. Ho-ho wheezy. And before we start this week's episode, I do want to give a trigger warning only because we are going to be talking about some deep topics that may trigger the listeners. So anyone who may be triggered from any conversations around sexual assault,

sexual harassment, survival sex, sex trafficking, please just proceed with this episode with caution. All right. Now, I do have a little introduction for who our host is. Now, I used my husband to help me with this. So if he forgot something, let me know. My husband is chat, ChiPT. I know.

Don't judge me. Dang. Ain't no judging in the poll pit, okay? So today, y'all, we are... The pole pit. That's a good strip club name. Look at you. The pink kids.

Keep going, get on. All right. Y'all today, baby, we are joined by Apostle Daniel Williams McCord, a dynamic voice in faith, leadership, and spiritual empowerment. Apostle Daniel is known for her unwavering commitment to God's truth, her passion for healing and restoration, and her heart for people, especially women, walking into wholeness and purpose. Through her ministry, teaching, and prophetic insight, she challenges believers to grow deeper in faith while living authentically and boldly. She is also the author of From Porn to the

pulpit, which has most recently been turned into a stage play and is traveling the country. I am so excited to dig into that book. Listen, because even just flipping through the pages, I was like, this is juicy. Juicy, just like your story. Welcome. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Now, thank you. I'll tell my husband he did a good job girl because he like words of affirmations. Oh, is that crosses in the ear? It is. You have those and you shouldn't need me wearing. You know what? I am a child of God. He is here for me all the time. Now, let's get into a little bit about you first.

So, y'all, this is a whole episode. We listen and we do not judge. Now, me and weezy judge our friends all the time, but we're going to come in not judging because I think that your story is different. It should be told. And I think being a woman from a religious background and from the church,

where there is a lot of shame in truth. There is a lot of shame in life experience, especially for women. I love that you are so brave in sharing it and being like, this is me. I can't imagine just sharing it, getting to a point where you felt comfortable to share it. Because I know that you must have said

the title of this book to somebody, and they were like, are you insane? Absolutely. It took a long time to get bold enough to talk about it. Who wakes up and says, hey, how you doing? My name, Danielle, I used to be a hoe. You know?

Have we introduced ourselves like that, I don't know. No, I feel like that's an alcoholic, anonymous, like, especially in church. and in the complements of empowerment groups and things like that, it took a minute for me to be able to get to the point that I'm at now. Oh, but you really don't introduce yourself like that, do you? I mean, it's straight to the point from porn to the pulpit. I wanted it to be self-explanatory, right to the point.

I want to come with no save title, no church type. People just look at that and put that down. From porn to the pulpit, it's going to catch your attention. And it's literally my story. Did you have, like, okay, because it seems now even being a pastor, like, you're still fun, you're still sexy. so, like, there's still some of that personality. When you were doing porn, did you give churchy girl?

Not at all. Okay, so that personality didn't lead it. I didn't give it. You look like you have some fun. Yeah. Okay. Now, I do want to start off then with your backstory. Like, how early did you, were you raised in the church?

Like, what is your early relationship with the church specifically? I do not have any recollection of my parents taking me to church. Okay. My mother or my father did not take me to church. It was my grandparents that gave me God. Okay. They gave me God. And so what did that look like?

At what age did you start going to the church? Because that's where this all started. By the way, y'all are going to be surprised that baby, it was really from the pulpit to pour into the pulpit. So let's talk about it. Okay. So prior to me in church, I had started in the strip club. Okay. Yeah.

The pulpit, literally. Okay. Literally. So before I got with my grandparents and really got rooted and grounded into the church, I was an out of control team, straight out of Compton, you know, all of the things. But I had been molested and raped at a very young age. Eight years old, it started with the molestation by my babysitter's son. Our black community, our brown and black community don't really talk about mental health stuff.

But my father was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. And he tried to kill me when I was 10. He tried to drown me in a bathtub. He beat me halfway to death and then tried to draw me in a bathtub. I kind of bounced from family member to family member. He was having an episode when it happened. Ended up in L.A. with my mom. And we had a neighbor, you know, that family friend who ended up inviting me into his home.

And he raped me when I was 12. You're at 8, 10, and 12. 8, 10, and 12. And also, you spoke with no one at this age about any of this that had happened. Like, because you led with, it's really hard within the black community to speak about mental health and things that we go through. And a lot of that stuff is brushed under the rug. Unfortunately, for so many women and boys, right? Or girls and boys.

So 8, 10, and 12, no one kind of came to your rescue during these things taking place? No. So at 8 and at 12, an abuser's objective is to instill fear. So the babysitter's son, so I was 8, he was like 14. when I was 12 this was like a 40 plus year old neighbor So their Their job is to instill fear

Make you feel like nobody's gonna believe you Or if you tell I'm gonna do this Or I'm gonna do that So I had I was scared to say something Right So I didn't say anything Even when my dad trying to kill me

I think I went to They took me to like therapy once or twice And then it was like okay It's over with So I didn't I never got the proper help That I really should have got Through the 8, 10 and 12

When you were going to through these experiences, and you said you ended up going to, was it another family member's house? That's when God was introduced to you? No. Wow. So much trauma happened before I finally found my peace. Okay. Yeah.

So 12, 13, in L.A. Standing at the bus stop, waiting for my bus to come. On Fig. Oh, wow. I know what happens on Fig. Yeah. And this guy pulled up, and he was the finest thing I ever seen in my life. He pulled up in like this goal Lexington.

I was like, ugh. And he got out the car, he tried to talk to me, whatever, and I'm young and dumb at 13 years old. He's 27. 27, found out he was a pimp trying to pimp me. I didn't know that. That wasn't the introduction. I'm just thinking I'm a young girl. This cute older guy is interested.

We had sex one time, and I got pregnant at 13 by the 27-year-old pimp. I hid my pregnancy until I was six and a half months pregnant and my water broke. I went from school to the ambulance to the hospital where I gave birth to my first son who died in my arms because he was premature and that's when things kind of took a turn. You gave birth to him? I gave birth, had to push him out.

Ectopic pregnancy. No, no, no. No? But what is it? When it's still. Still born? No? He was alive, just premature.

Oh. And then NICU and didn't make it past. Didn't make it pass. There you go. Didn't make it pass. and going back to what you said. All of this is 13? 13.

Holy like. Yeah. Going back to what you said, 8, 10, 12, now 13. Trauma after trauma after trauma with no proper therapy or help or anybody older to try to mentor me

and help me through that. So my mind just kind of. Who did you hide your pregnancy from? Who were you living with? My mom. Wow. So she, after leaving your dad, you also felt like wasn't someone that you could speak to.

No. Okay. And I want to touch on that because I think a lot of young girls, we go through this thing with our moms sometimes. And now she's my bestie now. That's my girl. I mean, I hid my period for a year from my mom. Yeah.

So it's weird because I also don't know how, especially like with so many of my friends now being mothers, it's almost like there is no teaching or right way or blueprint for you to gain that trust and safety net with your daughter all the time. It's very difficult. Yes, it is. It is.

And so just at 13, there still wasn't that you didn't feel like you could go to your mom. I couldn't tell her, hey, I'm pregnant. Like, I just couldn't. The words could never come out. I don't know if I could have a mom that cool at 13 to even be like, it's hard to. You know what I want to go back to?

Like, just thinking, and I'm curious now, especially in the era of, like, the Epstein files. I love Deepak Chopra and just found out he was making poems about his lust for little girls. So it's like all of our faves are just going away, right? I mean, for example, it could be something like, I think Jay-Z is on the list because he was on a list for a party. But right, everybody has a different type of party, or Mom Dani, the mayor of New York, because mom went to a film screening of something. So, like, anybody could be connected, and then there's the ones who were actually having sex with little girls.

What were some of the things that you remember him saying to you? Like, the pill? Yeah. Were there any things that when you were in the car or when you guys met that acknowledged maybe your age or he knew your age or was there something that he was trying to be talking about this. 27 year old knew she was underage. Of course. A 13 year old. I just want to know what he said to you specifically to where you knew he knew you were 13. I don't think he knew I was 13. He knew I was underage like 16.

I think I'm 16 and 15, 16. Either way, he knew I was a minor. Yeah. I just don't think he knew that I was. I was that young until I got pregnant. When I got pregnant, the first thing was I told him, and the first option was abortion. So I think that's when the conversation about my age came up because he's like, well, if you're 16, you can go to everybody yourself.

In California, I get in LA, I think you can go like 16 by yourself. And I think that's when it came out. Well, I'm not 16. I'm 13. And then I said, so he was like, 13. I'm like, yeah. So he was like, I said, so you have to take me. You're going to have to play the brother, the uncle.

You got to do something. And he said, okay, but he never showed up. And so at that point, I was still early in the pregnancy. But when he didn't show up, I just, 13, I thought, out of sight out of mind. If I don't acknowledge it, it's going to go away. Oh, my God, we're so dumb. Aren't we dumb? Literally.

Like, we're so dumb. So then at what point was your mom aware of your pregnancy? When they called her and when I was in labor. Your mom found out when you were in labor? My mother and my grandparents. because I tried to leave the hospital while I was in labor because the time was going

mind you, my water broke at school. So I'm like, all right, I've been here a couple hours it's getting late that the street lights are coming on. I'm still a child. Did you know what that meant in your head when the water broke? Did you knew you were going to labor? I don't know.

I don't think I knew the severity because I was trying to go home. Like I literally, the police came out. What were you thinking? What were you thinking like, I'm going to give it up for adoption? Yeah, I was going to leave it at the hospital, go home and then come back the next day

and figure it out. Yep, that sounds like a 13-year-old thing they could do. Yeah, I'm going to go home. I crashed a car. I crashed a car, but I hit my parents' car when I took it out at 13. I remember thinking, it's okay. It's on the right side. My mom enters from the left side.

By the time I find somebody, I'm going to take my dad's checkbook. The way you, it's the- You try to process things as a child. The frontal cortex is a development, not even close. It's not there. Okay, so she found that out. You have the baby. Do you remain in this relationship?

with the pimp. Because now also, is your mom now aware clearly of the baby but the relationship in who you have it with? I think I concealed his age. Okay.

I did. I don't think I told how old he was, nor that he was a pimp. Were y'all sleeping together while you were pregnant? I had sex with this man. Wow. I had all of this because

when I got pregnant, he was like, let's get the abortion. Then when he didn't show up, he said, well, just have the baby. I'll take care of you while you're pregnant, but once you had a baby, you're going to have to get on the blade.

What is? On the street. On the track. Yes. You're going to take care of you while you pregnant. You had a baby, and then you're going to have to get the work. Because you were bottom bitch now.

At this point, yeah. Yeah. I said never, no, no, no. I said no. And it was funny that I said, I had enough sense to say no to him, but not to the girl that introduced me to the actual institution. So you let me get there.

To tie it to romance. Or we also tie, we don't, we don't a lot of times tie harm to women as a woman, especially young, especially if they become friends. Like, you don't think a friend is going to put you into some shit. So the baby doesn't make it. You're 13. Let's fast forward a little bit to this introduction and who it was, where it was, because it was in the church. Absolutely. So, let's get to, you are a stripper.

You... How old were you when you started So I ran away after the baby. I just ran away. Rebellion kicked in. My mom is like, how did you have all these questions? I don't want to talk. I'm mad.

I run away. Get a fake ID. Run away with another pimp. Did you know he was? I didn't at first. But the difference between him and the baby dad was he didn't force me or try to get me to do it. He offered, I was like, no. The problem with him was, this is where the strip club came in.

He was like Mr. Jack, what they say, Dr. Jack? Mr. High. Yes. He was really nice when he was sober, but when he would get high on Coke, he would beat the crap out of me.

And he was a dope dealer. So one of his customers was a stripper. So when she would buy her little stuff from him, she'd see me all beat up. And she's like, hey, you ain't got to deal with this.

You can come to the club with me and make some money. So in her mind, she was helping me. Well, I mean, she kind of was. Innocent. Innocent.

And how old are you now? I'm almost 40 now. No, no, no. No, no. No, no. Oh, okay. Let me just, I'm almost, okay. So in the time of the story?

I was 14 at this time. Whoa. Okay. So I started dancing, but. With a fake ID. But it was some grown people stuff going on in the strip club that a 14-year-old wasn't ready for. And so I was like, nah, I can't do it. Does that strip club still exist today?

That was the after hours in L.A. Okay. So I don't know if they're still open, but it was the after hours. And it was a lot of stuff going on. At 14. what were some of the things that, like, at that age you saw and were wowed by? Like being in that type of environment? Sex in the champagne room.

Girls getting beat up by their pimps because the money wasn't enough. People doing drugs in the corner. What Ebony from Players Club said, I just came to dance for y'all. I just came to dance, but they wanted it. They was like, no. At that time, how much do you remember sex being in the club in the champagne room? I don't know. when they offered me, I was so, I felt so disrespected.

I was so like, how dare you ask me to do that? Because I'm 14. So when I hear strip club, I hear dancing. Dancing. I'm thinking dancing naked, dancing in sexy clothes, not prostitution. Because there is a difference. There are some clubs that only allow you to dance. If you do anything else, they will put you out.

So that's what I'm thinking. But not over here. It's like, yeah, you dance. That's the appetizer. But, you know, after that. We go back there. We fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And at 14, I wasn't ready for that. You know, I actually don't know if in my lifetime I've been in a private room and not been offered more. Like, there was a place I went. I don't know if it still exists in New Orleans called The Passion Pit. And I was only 18 or 19. Went to the back room because my friend bought me a dance. And the girl literally said to me, okay, do you want me to eat your pussy? Have you ever had fingers in your pussy?

Like, how much do you want to spend? And I remember thinking to myself, oh, my God. Oh, my God. What do I say? And I'm thinking like, these people bought me to dance because they knew I was coming back here to do this shit. And it's not really, to me, something that I don't know as common knowledge. We think, just like you said, stripping is dancing. Yeah.

I'm sure you had no idea that later in your life, you'd be at the point. I feel like any stripper we meet that started at stripping, then it became to, it's like no one ever saw that trajectory. Absolutely. But when did you start to see it happen? In the strip, like right away. Right away. As soon as I started doing. For yourself, I mean.

So when I left the strip club, I went to Compton with my grandparents. Okay. In order to be in their house, you had to go to church. And this is what age now? 15. Okay, you didn't last very long. You said one year. Oh, I was gone.

I don't think I was in there a year. Okay. I don't think I was at my grandparents for a while, but when the prostitution started, it was 15. Where were you staying? Like, where was your home like when you were 14? I was living with the drug dealing pen. Oh. And then I left.

started stripping with the stripper who introduced me to that and then I was like yeah this ain't going to work So in your grandparents' home the rule was that you had to go to church Got to go to church

Okay so by 15 Church is introduced Yes At this point Did you feel like church would be like now this new reawakening or rebirth or you felt safe

Yes Like their church was okay Let's get into then you You're getting into church Yeah so I got into I got into stability with my grandparents. It was stability.

I got into, got back into school. Okay. I dropped out of school, obviously. So I got back into school. Okay. Got me a little summer job. And then they had me in church

all day, every day. Not all day. Oh, my gosh. Oh, you had those type of grandparents. I had those type of grandparents. It was something every day. And so I was like, you know what? I'm going to be here.

I might as well do something. Find something I enjoyed at that time I wanted to sing. And so I joined the youth choir. And so I was singing for Jesus and I befriended this. young lady in the choir. You know, my grandparents knew her mom and I knew

her from visiting the church. And then when I joined the choir, we really got to... Y'all were the same age? No, she was 18. I was 15. And one day she pulled me to the side after choir rehearsal. Pulled me to the side and she was like, I know you used to dance.

I'm like, well, how do you know that? How do you know how you did that? Your grandparents, Renée Malchuk. You know they talk. Your grandparents, Renée Malmow. Yeah, doing good. now she was out in the strip club but she over here with her. You already know it.

It got around. They were probably real proud. And so she was like, I know you used to dance and I'm like, she was like, but don't trip. I dance too. Present tense. And so I'm like, okay.

And so she was like, you don't have to stay with your grandparents. I got my own place. She was like, look outside. You see my car? She was like, I'm dancing and you can come stay with me and we'll dance together.

So I'm like, oh, okay. You know, this is my friend. This is my girl. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I run away from stability. Oh, God. I run away from my safe place to go move in with my friend to dance. However, when I got there, dancing was not a part of the plan.

She was basically, like, dancing ain't it. If you want to see some real money, you got to, you know, you're going to have to sell that thing. And so my choir member from my church was like, yeah, we're not dancing. We're going to be hos. Did she want some of your money? No. She wanted a little partner and crying. I later found out she was with a pimp.

It was a scheme that Todd set up. She didn't tell me at first. Not a scheme that Todd spent up. I didn't know at first, but in the beginning. I knew she did. She not hit with... Girl, housewise. Oh, okay.

Oh, Pastor Tons? No. No, friend. Wait. Todd is Candy's husband. Todd is... That's his name? Candy's husband?

Was Todd? What you see what you did? She is the TLC girl. You're not in the Pian. Now you bring up a fat white lady in Nigerian. I know who this. I'm going to help her. While she's coming down to Atlanta, she needs to know housewives of Atlanta.

Okay. Brun, it's embarrassing. Okay. Because even my baby daddy, no, Potomac. I'm like, please. But that's Mama Joy said that. Anyway, anyway. So it was a scheme that she probably set up with her pimp.

Absolutely. To bring you into the fold. What? fire from there. How long were you did this? Because I ain't going to hold you. Godden. This is once every year it's like trauma. Oh sorry I can't say God. I said God. You got to say God. Got got. Got. Got now. My bad. Oops. If y'all are watching this on the video, we came in our church fit. You know church fit. Ain't no cleavage. Sorry fellas. Ain't no

the cherries give horror for you. They mesh the shirt. She said, the good these holes today. You know what? I would like to play it back. We're going to play it back. If we had to subtitle it, I bet you didn't hear the, it didn't hear the t. But okay, so what ended up happening during this time that you're with this friend and her pimp? I wasn't with the pimper.

Okay, no. So just with her, she basically got me ready for the first date, you know? We literally went from singing for Jesus at our church to now she's dressing me up. How does she find? What were you like? I was taking to Jesus the humming on ball. Oh my God.

Wait. Wait. Is that? No, I can't say that. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Okay.

I'll just go. Well, you ain't wrong. You ain't wrong. But yeah. So she just got me ready for the first day. What were, what were,

how were you feeling? Like, do you remember like your nerves? Like, yeah, what does she tell you? How does she prepare you? Like, did she tell you about condoms or maybe like what to put on?

Like, what was that first day? experience like? I mean, it was a whole rundown. And I think it just was like, have you ever just sat there just, you hear them, but it's like an outer body experience. Like, I'm really getting ready for this. And then she was like, well, I got something to calm you down. So not only did the choir member introduce me to the prostitution, she introduced me to drugs.

So I started with the cocaine and the X and all that. Hold on. Cope calms you down? Or maybe she just wanted you out your head. I mean, you would know. Oh, oh. Not she to call you. That's what I said.

I don't know what she's talking about. I thought it was for the turn-up. No, it was, I don't know if she was just trying to come, you know, get you out your sobriety, get you in another place. So it was just introduced. Oh, you know what? Confidence. There you go. There you go.

Coking confidence. Yeah. Wow. I don't think you ever forget your first client. What was he like? Was he white? Was he black? Was he old?

Was he young? Was he old? Was he fat? They always tell you don't do black. don't go black because he's either a Pimp or a police. So he was Armenian. It was in the valley in L.A.

I've never heard that. I always hear don't go black because they got big dicks. That's what I heard. Wait, because if you look, for those of you that may not know we talk about, if you are ever on a site or you're ever seeing women

talk about who they're looking for, they'll list out that they won't take black men. A lot of sex workers. Black women won't take black men. Well, my home girl that used to be on Eros, she told me she didn't. take black men because her cap was six men a day. She did alcohols. Um, but they either went too long or too big or, and I hate that she said this, but this was her words, or aggressive. So because

of that, she steered clear of black men as clients. I was just told it was either a pimp or the police. Wow. Okay. Okay. Interesting. Okay. So your first client was Armenia. Armenian. That's very LA. Very much. So in the valley. Yeah, for sure. He was like, honey, honey, honey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was your name? What was my name?

I don't remember. I know they used to call me a little bit before I changed my name to Queen. Okay. So I think I was just going by that because I always was short and I was smaller in stature, so I just went by that.

Were you in a car? I was in the car. Yeah, she took me straight to the blade. Yeah. You were on the blade at 15? At 15 years of. Where is the blade? because I've heard about fig.

Maybe we could, if you could give context. I know people may not know Fing. Didn't they do a documentary about this particular strip? I thought you've talked about it. Yeah, I just know about Figg. Okay, but I've never heard of Blade. So in the Valley, you got Sherman Oaks, Sherman Way.

You have places in like, where are some other ones? Obviously, a sunset, you know, Hollywood Boulevard, things of that nature. Wow. Yeah. So this is still today, then, a place where you can get. Okay, so you're 15. You've had your first John.

Does it get easier, harder? Do you disconnect? And then we're going to get to you going back to the place that brought you this. But how long were you doing prostitution? And then did it go to porn from there? Yeah. Okay, girl, you did all the stuff. I'd like to ask you a question that might be uncomfortable.

But I'm curious, a lot of my friends that do sex work, we may laugh about the fun moments together. or something silly. Like, girl, he couldn't get it over. He wanted this. What was the scariest moment for you? Oh, we're going to get there. Okay.

Oh, it got real bad. I think that was the turning point. The scariest moment was my turning point. However, before I got there, I went through things like pimps trying to kidnap me and, you know, tricks pulling out guns and knives. I've been robbed on the blade on the track or whatever they call it. Were you getting robbed because you weren't giving the money away? So you had the money on you? Well, some people go out there to rob the prostitutes because they know they're getting cash.

It was way before cash apps and squares and binmo and PayPal. You know, it was a cash transaction. We only had Western Union back then. That's all we had. Western Union, you had to go to the public. Yeah. So for the most part, a lot of men and women know that. That's an easy lick.

Go out there with the women are a little bit more less vulnerable than men. You know, they're less of a threat than a man. So an easy hit is to go on the track and hit a prostitute, get her money. or whatever, so I went through a lot of that. What percentage of men were trying to do things without condoms? Really run into that a lot. I mean, you have a few, but I didn't really run into that a lot. I think I started seeing that more so in the porn industry when my clientele changed.

Wow. Now, that's what I want to get to. Yeah. So you go from prostitution on the blade to porn, so doing it on video. Mm-hmm. Now, you talk about your clientele. Uh-huh. And it brought you kind of back to the church just a little bit, kind of, sort of.

Well, okay. I need to know about your clientele that was God fear of men. Yeah. So even before, I think before porn, a lot of my clients were pastors. Now, this is interesting. Men in church, yeah. Do you, you said you just left Orlando. Do you remember hearing a story about New Destiny?

Mm-mm. There was a church I went to growing up in Orlando, and the pastor of the church died in New York and a hotel room. They set up a cocaine overdose, and he was with a sex worker. His wife, and now I think with a new husband, now runs that church. Maybe she named it something else. But I had heard my whole life that, like, the highest pain customers or, like, the most frequent or sexy to talk about. Just crazy in a story. We're always pastors and policemen.

They told you they was pastors? Some of them. Did they have kicks when they was like, who called me past away? Like, how did you know? Like, Well, some of them were well known, so I just kind of knew.

Oh. Yeah, some of them were well known. I ran into some in church because, so this is the thing. I would have paid to see their face. Oh. So it was times where, like I said, prostituting before I got into the porn industry,

I still went to church. Okay. Like, it didn't matter what I did. I was on drugs at this point. I was prostitutes. student stripping, selling dope, in and out of jail, but I still went to church. And I thank God that my grandparents gave me that because even though I was living while, I was wild, but I still had that relationship with God.

People say you're a hypocrite or whatever. You know, like, for those of us, I feel like I'm someone that casually goes when it's a holiday or a friend drags me, right? When a friend drag me. And when it happens, there's something I want to change that day. How did that never happen? Or did it happen? It happened.

But then when the money gets low, that flesh rises again. So when you go to church, you'd be like, I'm doing the wrong thing? Of course. Yeah, especially if that message is right, that song is right. And then it's like, dang, I'm going to go to the club. Or I just left a married man. Or I just left doing this. You know, it would hit.

But, you know, you have to make a decision. And sometimes we're just not ready to make that decision. And so I would be in church and then I see the dude that I would just wit the other night. And that's how I will find out a lot of them had positions in church. They were pastors, deacons, ministers, or whatever, just by trying to go worship. had times where I was literally in worship crying, snotting, ugly crying, and want to tap me on my shoulder and it'll be one of my clients. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah. It was very. With their family. With their families. What about, I'm something I'm curious to, like, you're almost 40.

This is happening to you as a teenager. Yeah. Do we think sex work is so moral and bad now? Dude, what is your opinion now? In comparison, you were basically saying that at the time you felt like you were doing the wrong thing. I mean, but also back then, I remember when I was in high school, one of my close

friends, her sister was a dancer at Magic City. And back then, being a stripper was so taboo. You didn't. They weren't proud, but they made money and they were the girls in the strip club, right? But now with only fans and with, you know, the, like, IG models, we know

what some of them are doing on the trips that they go to, it's a lot more normalized. sex work now than it was back in that day. But I think normal more than today. You think? No, I'm like, direct question, do you think it's wrong? Yes. Oh, you do? Yeah. And so knowing that one, somebody could be happy and doing legal sex work. And even if it's something like a virtual, a sexual relationship, just sharing nude photos, you feel like it's wrong or you believe that it is wrong because of the Bible. Where does that come from? I've never met a happy prostitute. We know how to pretend. There's no woman that likes to be degraded.

We like the money and the lifestyle. There's no woman who will sit down. They'll tell you, oh, yeah, I'm getting money. I'm getting bags and all of that. That's great. We're going to portray that, especially if you have celebrity clientele, especially if you're buying bags

and you're living a luxurious lifestyle. But internally, you're not happy. Now, what about if you're not sex for money? What about if it's porn and it's, or it's stripping? or even if they're making money off their feet. It's sex work. Right, but she said prostitute. So I want to know.

Foreign is prostitution. It's just legal. Is there any kind of sex work that you think is moral? No. Okay. Mm-mm. No. Does that come from experience or because you're a pastor now,

you know so much more and maybe have such a close relationship to God. I want to know if it's because your experience pushed it away or if your relationship with God is telling you that. Both. my experience and then obviously my relationship with God, but even before I was really rooted into that as a woman who did it. It is, no, we know how to make it look good, especially when I got into porn.

Shout out to my best friend, Shana, our mutual friend. I met her on the porn set. Oh, wow. So we literally met when I was 18 years old on the porn set. We were doing the orgy scene. That's how we met now. That's how me and my best friend met. I was 18 years old and we just hit it off

and we became really good friends and we're friends. to this day, I'm the godmother to her child. She introduced me, because I was hood. You know what I'm saying? I was one of them, I was hood. Okay, I was from Compton. I was one of them hood strippers, fighting in the clubs and all that.

When I got with Shauna, it was like, you can't do that because we have a different crowd. I hang out with a different type of people. And that's when I was introduced to the celebrities, the rappers, the ballplayers, the Hollywood lifestyle. And so even in that with the money and the clientele of the celebrities,

and high-profile people, you're still not fulfilled. I don't care how they portray it. I've never met. Even the women that I work with today because I work, my ministry is different. I always talk from that other church. I'm not super religious.

It's like I don't fit anywhere. I don't fit in the church because they say I'm too worldly and I don't fit in the world. They say I'm too churchy. So, you know, I'm in my own lane. But I deal with a lot of women who are sex workers, even men, who have prostituted themselves.

I never sat with a happy person. prostitute, porn star, or stripper. Now, do you feel like out of the women you know and men? I feel like I can name maybe one or two. I will say in my 20s, they made it seem like they did it because they enjoyed it or they liked it. I will say at 35 now, the people who have either had to go back to resort to it or the women that at their lowest right now would rather ask me or someone for help before laying on their back. Because that's my thing too.

They've all laid on their back. A lot of my friends have laid on their back from me. And so I even be like, bro, at some point, though, in your big age, just go do it again. In the way, how they feel about themselves now and how they've worked through traumas or childhood things or their self-worth, they physically cannot imagine doing it again. You know, like I actually, I think it's like going back to an office job for you. Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not even close. No, not even close. No, no, no.

Can I tell you why I believe this? Please, not even close. And I'm going to die on this sword. Okay. Nobody wants to go back to something that they had to do before they elevated. Right. And a lot of the times when we talk about sex work, because everybody else congratulate you when you're done, that's why I think people don't want to go back. Oh, no.

No. No, no, no, no, no. It is the image of doing it. No, if I think about going back to a job. You literally said on the break of stuff, I'll never. Never go back to office job. Well, I don't want to go. No, no, no, no.

But night and day, for me saying literally, I wouldn't even know today what my price would be. Like, because of, there was pride in actually working at Goldman Sachs and things like that. At this big age and in the book that we talk about survival sex, there's no pride that I have in having to sleep with men that I didn't like to pay a bill. But at the same time, you date rich guys to give you cash. No, no, no, no. There's a big difference from also dating men who give me money than me having to date or have sex.

But I have sex with fair in line with sugaring and sex and money. I'm not, I'm not sugared by any men in my life. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about thin line between cash for money. If you are a sugar baby, you are a sex work. That's prostitution. I'm saying a woman dealing with a man with money who gives her money and she likes the man and they're in a relationship.

That's different. That's way different than. In a relationship is also different from women. women dating somebody, they'd be like, oh, girl, you know, he'd be giving me X, Y, Z. This is all just subjective to me. All of it is sex work. This whole hierarchy of... It can be, but if a woman can make the money to live on her own and not have to depend on a man,

I highly think that 99.9% of women, if they had the skills, the degrees, the ability to make money without having to lay on their back, to not having to depend on a man. I think some of these girls that wouldn't do that would also date a rich dude that was fucking them, didn't care about them and giving them money. They will, but I was saying this is all of the same. And we act like prostitutes that are on a blade or fig are different from a lot of the people. She's saying, though, that none of them are genuinely happy with having to do that for to live. So this is, they wouldn't choose it.

A woman who is dating a man because he has money or she likes him or he's taking care of her is different from a woman who has to wake up and go online or pick up her phone and sleep with strangers to spend or. her life. I agree with that. That's different. So if I meet a guy, if I'm single and I meet a guy and he has money and he's not super attractive, but I know he has money and I'm going to give him a chance because he has money and as time goes on, I start to like him. Does you get to know a person? Sometimes you start to like them, the ugly day ain't that ugly. Like they said, if he got the little one and feel big. They grow on you. Right. They grow on you. But me having to wake up and go and sleep with different men so that I can have a roof over my head so that I can feed my kids, but I can pay my bills.

I've never met a woman whether she's on only fans, whether she's on the track or in the strip club, who is genuinely happy with this decision. I think that it is different from the level of sex work. And I only say this because I have 10 women in my phone that are fucking ball players that don't care about them, that they're sharing around with different friends, X, Y, Z, and I bet they would do it again and again and again

because the money looks different. It's less of a risk. And I also believe that the luxury lifestyle is a high, that I don't think a lot of women would get off of. But I'm saying, that to me is happy, prostituting. Now, whether it's short-lived or not, I don't think, I think this is all of the same. You talked about these same girls, though, that deal with these ballers, that then cry because they're not being seen more. Of course.

I agree with. But I agree with what you said. I've not met one, you saying that you have not met one woman that is happy being degraded. And I think that, again, when you reach a level of self-worth, which is what I talk about, too. So for a lot of women, they don't know they're unhappy because they don't see themselves as someone that is deserving. And I talk about that in my journey with even men now. Casual sex is different for me now. Like, I finally feel like I'm deserving of a man caring about what I'm doing in life, considering me, my feelings, talking about that.

Like, caring about what's happening with my family. I deserve that. And so now the idea of being with a man who doesn't proposes me. And I think that that's the thing, too. there's so many women that haven't gotten to that place yet. Absolutely. Of valuing themselves. I think that women don't know that they are in the place.

I agree. I think that's really what I'm talking about here. So then I'm curious for you, when was the turning point? Because you thought it was all for a while, the lifestyle, hanging with the ballers, the actors, the celebrities, going on the trips, the yachts, was fine. But what happened? What was the turning point of you saying this ain't right?

Well, going back to what weezy says, she said luxury is fun. It is, right? But what you have to do for it is what changes the dynamics. And so even though, like you said, all of those things were great, right? But my drug intake increased. I overdosed three times because I could not be sober doing that. I had to be high.

I had to be drunk. I literally will wake up and take a shot of Jose Cuabo before I brushed my teeth and got out of the bed so that I can function in a lifestyle to have the luxury stuff. I had to sniff a line of Coke and pop almost three pills of ecstasy just to be able to get through a weekend of sleeping with strangers for money. And so, yes, I had all of these things, but I was dying. There's a scripture. I know we don't go to church, but there is a scripture that says, what profit is it to a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?

Which means you can have everything given to you, all the luxuries in the world and still be dying on the inside. And I think that's where a lot of us, that's where we misconstrue the image of sex. work because it looks like they're bawling. It looks like they're having a great time. And they are in that moment. But when the high comes down and when the sobriety kicks back in, now you got to deal with you.

Now you got to look yourself in the mirror and say, I got this bag because of all the men I just slept with. I got this house and I'm living in this penthouse and this high rise. But this is what I have to continue to do to keep it. That's where it starts to get. Did you ever have an exit plan that wasn't real? I'm over here about to cry. You so?

Because literally, yes. Yeah. what you're willing to do for it is what it changes. But also or what you have to do because you need a roof over your head. You need to eat or like, and I thought like that was my hardest chapter in this book because, yeah, it doesn't feel good. And when you get into therapy and you realize when you have to hold that mirror up and realize what you thought was fun, the trips and all that. And it's like, wow, like you look at yourself and it's like, wow, you didn't think nothing of yourself. Nothing.

Nothing. Because you said something earlier, women who could get it on their own, if we could get on our own, it's so much more satisfying and so much more rewarding versus standing in the mirror knowing I got this. If you did it because you built a platform and you built businesses versus I did it because I sucked a million penises. Right. You understand what I'm saying? We got the same thing, but what, it costs me more. Yeah. You understand what I'm saying? Even when it cost you, the cost wasn't there, but inside, yeah. It costs my morals, my soul. It wasn't hard work. If you built it because of hard work versus I built it on my back. Right. It doesn't equal out the same. And then it goes back to self-worth.

What do you think of yourself to let multiple strangers do whatever they want to you? You don't get to pick and choose because once, I mean, you can say no. But once you're in that room and they gave you that money, they can do what they want. They can say what they want to say to you. They can come where they want to come. They can call you what they want to call you. They can do whatever. And once you're in the moment,

what you're going to do as a woman? You know what's hard about this conversation for me. Many people have heard me tell this story, but I do a TV show called Sex Cells, and we explore businesses and how they make money from sex. I was brought a TV show called Sexit, and they initially wanted me to hope, and Sex Cell now on my fourth season.

In Sexit, they wanted me to cover people that were leaving the sex industry. And I was like, well, I can't do that on this platform where I celebrate sex and I celebrate autonomy. And there is a big part of me as much as I can feel this moment and be empathic that still stands on wanting women to be able to have the right to do what they want. No, I can. And I want to be clear, my journey, her journey, we can, I'm still pro-sex for women that have to do that. Well, let me tell you what I'm saying this, though. I think it's because I refuse to believe all of it is bad, but by the notion that nobody is happy, it's hard to then celebrate something if I think people are going to be in a dark place.

I want anybody that wants to make money safely to not hate that they have to do this or feel like they're low or down and out. And that's what makes it hard because I've felt like that. I've also had sex for money. I've been there and then I wasn't. I've had ups and downs and lows. We all have. But it's hard because I don't intrinsically believe that every single sex worker can be unhappy. I think that circumstantial sex, which is what both of you are talking about, is what makes us unhappy.

I need to have sex for my rent, and that's tough. I need to have sex or else this is my last option. But there are other sex workers in the world that, let's look at the highest paid porn star or whatever. How come they haven't pulled out yet? You just said it. They're the highest paid. But that's what I'm saying, right? I think, and that's the circumstance versus choice.

So when someone is making the choice to do it because they're either enjoying their celebrated, et cetera, lifestyle, but also being celebrated. I don't know. And I know that this is a hard combo to have, but I can't be who I am for the last 10 years and believe that everyone is unhappy. Let me say this. And even with the show and geared to those who want to do, you know, like you said, choice versus circumstance, you're, you have a platform where you celebrate it. So of course, if I'm still in the porn industry, I'm going on here and talk about the great things about the porn industry and the money that it brings. And I'm going to act like I'm so happy and this is so wonderful because that's the platform that I'm in. But half those people that have been on your show, send them to me and let me have a conversation with them. I guarantee you the conversation. is going to be there. The same people you have had on your platform that celebrate sex work and they love it and it's this, that, and a third. Let me sit down and talk to them. But I'm in this conversation too when I've sold myself, right? And I think, how did you feel? Well, I never had it because I needed to. It was sugar daddies. It was things like that. It was never for food. It was a different story, which is probably why I'm able to have this conversation. Like, I know I didn't feel that way. and why I said I can be empathic, but at any point, I could have stopped. I did that with a corporate job, right?

Like, because it was this, oh, well, he can give me this at a bigger apartment or et cetera. And that's what I, at least my choice, that's what I hope every story I'd hear is. It was a girl who was safe, and I've had sexual assault happen, but it wasn't from any of those transactional moments, right?

So it's a different, and it's not me trying to say this elite, And that never happened to me. I know why I can tell that story in a different way. But I... But you say you had a sugar daddy. Well, no.

I had a sugar daddy that... We could believe this out. I have a question for you. We can believe it out. You felt that way in... B-H... B-Hs was not a sugar daddy. B-Hick was a sugar daddy.

I didn't love it, but I also, at the same time, you got to remember, I didn't need to do it in that moment. So I believe that because I've never been pushed to this is it die, I think that's why I hadn't had those super, super low moments. Did you enjoy it? I mean, my chapter, that's not true. Please don't speak for me. My chapter is very different.

And I wouldn't see here. No, I'm talking, I'm talking about that. No, no, I'm talking about enjoying it. I think, I hate my job sometimes and love my job. But what I will tell you is there were 90% highs for me in this. And also, I had a lot of business acumen while I was sleeping with someone for money, right? Like, mine is called, I think it's like why buy purses when you could buy stocks. There's a lot of, and maybe because also I always, my next question to you before we started talking about this was actually, did you ever have an exit plan and what was your job or business you wanted to start? Because I think everybody wanted that. I did it. Maybe every woman did not, right? Or get their chance to, right? We're always saying, I'm going to do X, Y, Z.

This is going to be over. I'm going to stop selling drugs. I'm going to start doing this, right? So that's where I'm in this crossroad of this conversation because while I feel like God called you to be a pastor later in your life and having these experience and helping people out of that lifestyle, I don't know if it's all 100% bad. The only thing I think is 100% bad is drug use or being abusive to other people. But having autonomy of your own body and making money on it, I don't know.

Calling it autonomy and making money off your body, whatever it takes to make it sound good for a lot of people. What they say, whatever it takes for you to sleep at night, it still doesn't take away the fact that we let people degrade us for a dollar. Do you think it should be illegal? It is illegal, isn't it?

In a lot of places it is. Prostitution is illegal, right? Are you saying like... I guess all across the board. Like, there's brothels. Like, escort websites are legal, but you can't have sex. Like, do you think it should all be out

so that women don't have this option? I think it should be legal to be safer. It being illegal creates a lot more unsafe. Right, right, right. Women could have to be judged. Yeah, like, if you legalize it, the same way now you legalize weed, you can get it on a, like, it's more regulated. If prostitution was legal, there would be more ways that you could see the Johns or you could, that you could share information. Agreed.

Everything is dark web because of it being illegal. I do think it's got to be legal for the safety of the women, actually, over anybody else. I mean, just from a safety standpoint, but, I mean, we talk about it being the oldest profession. You know, and we can all have different ways of how we view 90% happy, 100% unhappy, whatever. But, um... And wait, let me say this. Don't get it twisted. I had moments where I had good times.

Yeah. But they were short-lived once the high wore down. Once the high wore off, once the drinking, all of that. And I had to deal with the reality of what I was doing. The start of your story answers at all. I don't even know how it could... I think even your high times are just better than the last. Yeah.

Like, to me, it's very painful to be a teenager. go through that. I'm a consenting adult at the time that this is happening for me, right? In hearing you talk about that, it's just like, it's terrifying because I want to have children imagining them just on the internet. It's like, you never know. One of my close friends, she told me her sister was sex trafficked and the first thing out of my mouth was, didn't y'all grow up with money? Like, because that was really where my brain went. I'm like, didn't you all live in this big, like, what the fuck are you talking about? And she's like, guy on the internet, boom, took my sister. But you know, that's what we assume.

We think that these stories come from some kind of poverty living. Or like you couldn't have had a good family. Like, it's really a kid just being a kid and ended up in the wrong place. And I'm kind of scared to hear now hearing everything. What was your turning point? Oh, scary moment. Yeah, like, holy, like, all of this sounds scary. But what was the turning point that you were like, this is it?

Yeah. So a guy. me to New York. I was in L.A. and it was nothing unusual because men flew me out. You know, this is back in Craigslist days, back page days. So my space, things of that nature. So contacts me online said he wanted me to come to New York. Nothing out of the norm, you know. Long story short, he flew me from L.A. to New York to New York to get this money on a one-way ticket. So it was a disaster from the beginning. But I'm high out of my mind, you know. I'm going to New York, go get this money. I'm coming back. Um, he got me. Everything he said to me online was a lie from where he lived to what he drove, all of the things. But the first three days, he whined and die. I mean, he took me to get drugs.

He took me shopping. He took me to eat. We, you know, he gave me money. Um, we end up going to a club in Manhattan. I'm there to work. I'm there, you know, this is not a girlfriend, boyfriend thing. You pay for a prostitute. So when he went to the bathroom, I started trying to work.

You know, I was talking to other guys. And he saw me, got really, really upset. And he dragged me out of the club. And he fought me until we got into the car. Now, I'm good. I'm going to fight back a little bit. But he looked at me with such a devious look in his eyes. And he said, I'm going to kill you.

You are not going to leave here. And like I said, as a prostitute, I went through a lot of things on the streets. But this was different. He ended up taking me to, like, this old abandoned house. and took me into a basement and it looked like something out of a horror movie. It was a big basement, but it had a small room. In the room was an old TV.

It was a boarded up window, a small closet, and a mattress on the floor with like a sheet on it. And he threw me in this basement and he raped me and he beat me. He was a Haitian man, so he chanted voodoo over me. He tried to do rituals and he told me over and over again, you're going to die, I'm going to kill you. And when they say you have near-death experiences and like your life flashes before your eyes, it is true.

I knew that I knew that he was going to kill me. It was like after he got done with his torturing and whatever he would get off on, he was very sadistic. So I felt like once he got done doing whatever he needed to do to please him, he was going to kill me. Again, I told y'all, I stayed in church no matter what I did, no matter how I lived, I still went to church. I still had a prayer life. It was very low, but I had one. he would leave me in that basement for hours at a time

and it was one particular day because I felt like the time was coming I was only supposed to be in New York for like three days I was in there for almost three weeks in his basement what? Yeah, I was supposed to be there three days

how were you counting time? I watched the sun go up and down Wow watch the sun go up and down it's almost like hearing about a movie literally literally literally I don't know

there's a Kennedy Ryan books where she has the same story Just because this is a movie. It is. Speaking, girl. I wanted to be. I was a book and a play now. I hope you get your feel.

Thank you. And so he would leave me in that basement and it was one particular day. I said, he's going to feel me. I just knew I felt it. I was 19 years old. Were you like, how could you not escape? Were you like chained or something? Or you were just scared?

I, so the door that he had me, the room he had me in it locked from the outside. Oh, okay. So he would have to unlock the door. This is another movie. This is the house made. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his mom, he would let me go upstairs.

Let me know, Yomi, if I need to pick up my mouth, because I'm just like, his mom was in house? Yeah. One time he let me go upstairs to take a shower, and I'm assuming that was his mom. It was an older lady, but she spoke no English. They were Haitian, so she only spoke Creole and French. So I was trying to get her attention.

He was watching me, though, the whole time, and I'm trying to get her attention. She was like, I'm a mind my business, and plus she didn't speak English. So it was like, because I heard how he's talked to her, So I'm like, I don't know if everybody in the house is crazy. It's like the hill has to have eyes in this house. I don't know what's going on.

But she didn't help me. She didn't even look at me. Like she knew. The setup of the basement was as if he's done this before. I was going to say, of course he has because if that night went well, maybe he would have let you go. Yeah. Yeah. Or he was just waiting to be triggered.

Yeah, because he brought me on a one-way ticket. So I'm like, maybe you already had your plan. You just didn't think it was going to go that way. but yeah. So he would leave me in the basement and this one particular day I just knew that the end was coming and something in me said pray.

You knew the end for your life? Yeah, I knew the end for you escape. No, the end for him to kill me. Wow. And so something in me said pray. And I prayed and I said, Lord, if you get me out of this, I'll change my life. You just don't let me die.

Don't let me die like this. I'm in New York by myself. My family wouldn't know where to find me. They wouldn't even know where to put my body for my funeral. As all my parents, my mom and my grandparents just knew, Danielle just met me and with money. Nobody knew I was stripping. Nobody knew I was prostituting. They sure didn't know about porn at that time. All they knew was, because I was dating football players. I was dating rappers. I was in magazines. So they're like, she meets me in with money. She's a beautiful girl. Yeah. And so they wouldn't even know where to find. And I was just like, God, please don't let me. I didn't tell this story so many times. I don't know why I'm

getting to it. I, because it's so. real and it just it takes me back to a place that's how nobody can tell me god is not real and i just i called on them and i said please just don't let me die not like this a few days later um his friend for whatever reason came to that house and i'm scared i'm thinking he's a part of it it's his turn now for whatever reason and i know it was god because he came down there to that basement and opened that door, and he looked just as horrified as I did, like, what's going on? And I'm telling him, like, your friend had me locked down here because he remember, he was in the club with us. So he remembered me.

He was like, you're still here. He didn't know I was still in New York. Were you going in the bathroom in the basement, everything? Is that why? Like, he could, did it, what did that room look like that he was like, what's going on? So the basement looked like a regular basement. It was a room in the basement, like a little room that I was kept in. I don't know why that man came downstairs or whatever.

reason, but I thank God that he did. And he heard me or I guess he was calling the dude and he was like, hey, where are you at? And I was like, huh? And he opened the door and he's like, because mind you, I'm beat up. I'm, I look all disarrayed. I'm all jacked up. Right. So he's like, this ain't the same girl that came out and, you know, I was beautiful and I look great. And now I'm all disoriented. And he's like, what's going on? Tell him your friend is psycho. He's trying to kill me. Please help me out here. He was like, come on, come on, come on. He helped me out. and he was like, do you have anywhere to go? I knew somebody in New Jersey.

He took me to the train station. I got on the train and went to New Jersey and somebody bought me a flight back to L.A. And I never looked back. Wait, wait, wait. You almost left the house too quick in the story for me. When he took you out, where was the God? I have no idea.

I have no idea. So he came to the house by an angel? It was nothing but God. He was not at the house. So I believe he was supposed to meet him there. So the friend got there before he did and came in the house. heard the noise and came downstairs thought he's not upstairs so let me go downstairs see if he's in the

basement or whatever and end up finding me down there had you ever heard from the guy again the friend no the friend who helped you i didn't want to talk to none of them i didn't know it's like right that i went out in my head like did he ever say like are you okay try to like like i think he was so everybody was we were all like what's happening he probably like what's up with homeboy i'm still like are you a part of the craziness but when he took me to the train station that's when it was like, oh, wait, like, oh, he really did come to help me. He really is helping me. And he got me out.

I took that train of Jersey. I got back to L.A. And you never, never went back? Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. That is terrifying. And then what led you to a life of ministry and getting back into this church after the church was also a part of this becoming your lifestyle? Right, right, right.

So ministry was never part of the plan. Okay. I just wanted to live for God because I think a lot of times people think being, a Christian or being whatever you are, you have to have a title or a position. You don't. You can serve God. I'm so glad to hear you say that,

then. It's like whenever I make a post like, hey, y'all, look out for ice. Go be a mayor. You want to make a change? Like, damn, I can't say no. Golly! Ice out.

Like, I can be, you know, for good things without having to really be fully involved. And so I just, I remember the vow that I made it made to God. Now, don't get it to us. It was hard because that's all I knew since I was 14 years old.

So it was absolutely hard to stay on that, on that path. But I knew that I knew if I went back, I wasn't going to make it out. You know, and so I just wanted to be saved and live by the Bible and get into church. What was your first job after? Like, how did you get normal? What was your normal girl? How did you get normal? How did you get normal?

You said I wanted to be normal. Yeah, I did. I wanted to be normal. I didn't want ministry. And so I did. I ended up getting a job at the post office where I met my mom. husband. Yeah, he was my boss. My husband was my boss. Oh, this is a story. Yeah. This is all...

No, I wrote that before I met him. Yeah. Okay. No, now we need a part. It's in my other book. And then me and your husband at the post office. When I saw your wedding ring, I was so curious. Like, I'm not going to lie. This sound like the American dream. I do. From prostitution to the post office. Yeah. Right. That was my first job. And that was my normality. That's all I wanted. But in the midst of me being normal, um, I said, no, you have too powerful of a story. And you didn't go, a lot of times we don't go through

what we go through for ourselves. We go through it for somebody else. That's what I feel about this podcast. Yeah. This is me sharing my story and us writing this book. Yes. It's for whoever.

It's for somebody else. It's probably why to me, when I saw your ring earlier, I think to myself because it's the question people always have for me. What does your boyfriend think of your show? Or how do you date with a podcast? We've hear that for, hear that for years.

And when I was looking at your ring and you're telling the story, I'm like, I wonder if he learned to be comfortable or if he just knows people need to hear it to go through their own journey. People need to hear this. How does, yeah. So how does your husband feel about you sharing this story? Was it a conversation? How has he gotten comfortable with everyone else knowing that this was your truth?

Well, when he met me, he knew the story. So when he met me, like I said, he was my boss and then we became friends and he's older than me. So he had daughters, all girls. And he was like, my daughters need to hear your story. You know, they need to sit down and hear your story and see what life could be like. So he bought a book. And read the book and came back to work

and was like, I want to show you that all men are not bad. And clock out, let's go on a day. Now I'm going to tell you being here. There might be a little too much hope for the holes that's a lot. Yeah, no, I want to give hope. Too much hope for the hose.

It's hope for the hose. It's hope for the hose. Because I hear that. They need to hear that because it's a lot of times where we hear once a whole, always a whole. Ain't nobody going to wife you. Who's going to marry you knowing you didn't just do your strip or just prostitute, but you are on film. You know, and so what man would marry you? Right.

And they need to know that listen, can't nobody, what they say? When God, what they say? When God say yeah, can't nobody say no. And if that's, if you have a desire, I don't care what you done in your past. If you have a desire for a monogamous relationship, if you have a desire for marriage, who in the helicopter is somebody to tell you that you can't have that because of your past?

I'm not going to lie. Who in the helicopter? That's my safe. That's my same custom. That's my same custom. You tell us before we get out of here, what are your alternate cuss words? Do you say, Frick?

Helicopter. And what in the Ben Diesel is going on? What in the Ben Diesel? And shut the faith up. Yeah. Shut the faith up. This is hilarious. Now, real quick, also before we get out of here, just because I think it is important,

not only where can people get your book, but when are you bringing it back to the stage? What's happening? Because from porn to the pulpit is also now a stage play. Yeah. How do we go see the play? Yeah. How do we support this? Okay.

Okay. So the book is on Amazon. Okay. Self-publish? It is. Okay. Y'all support. You all support a self-published black woman author. Period.

They definitely buy in this book. I don't know if anybody ever sold the book more. I'm excited. You ever, I thought you were going to tell the book? No. To know that it's, I need it. Yeah. Okay.

I gave you snippets. It gets raw in the book. So anybody that's overly religious and sensitive, they probably go like, she's a minister. She wrote like, I'm very real. I'm very transparent. God told me to continue to be me. You know what? You're also human.

That part. But sometimes the church makes you feel like you cannot be. And church people make you feel like you cannot be human. Yep. But that's okay. You know, I'm going to be her. And so the book was written and it's on Amazon. I did the stage play.

I prayed that I could take this worldwide. We did a few shows. We did a couple of shows in Atlanta with Young Jock. We've had, who else did we have? You went to Charlotte. I went to Charlotte with Terrell Car. I went to Baden Rouge with Darren Henson. We came back to Atlanta with Mama D and Willie Taylor from Day 26.

And so the goal is to- Oh, that was the play. Yes. I remember Mama-D. See, I know some shows. That's loving hip-hop, girl. You know, I want to call something for you because since I've been doing this show, I've had so many opportunities working from any TV show, any network.

And what I've learned is so many people listen to this show. So if you work anywhere where it could be in writing you could be freelancing if you are

somebody that can produce films or you just know someone and can send the email please please if you are an

angel investor a sponsor you just got money and don't know what to do with it give it to me so I can

take this show around and then make a film obviously that's the go so I've given 824 because listen

you got to think Zola and this is way more interesting in Zola. Zola came from tweets, and I think what we kind of forget when we're sharing our story is to ask. I ask all the time, like, do you know X, Y, Z?

And people are giving jobs to people to ask me for stuff. Yeah. You know, so you might be watching this and may be connected in a way that you don't even realize, but it's always very, very helpful when you're thinking of something,

and you know why else I say that too? Whenever I hear a good idea from somebody, I want to make money on the idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on, we all. I was like, girl, I said, you having all these different actors. I'm acting now.

Yeah, yeah. Come on, me. Girl, we got induced you to Tempice. Yeah. No, this is great. Thank you. And you guys supported us and helped us become New York Times bestsellers. So if you're looking for a book, this is nonfiction.

Girl, it's 100% nonfiction. Okay. Yeah. And so was our book. Yeah. So make sure that you, again, support this independent book. And whenever you get it back to back on the road, let us know. We would love to let our audience know where they can come and support.

And how do they find you online? Oh, I am on All the platforms Facebook, Instagram, TikTok Is that anything else? Give your name And we'll put Minister Danny

Yes, and it'll be in the description of this episode as well And thank you so much for coming on And sharing your story Thank y'all Because I know y'all

Be too churchy So if y'all Let's go So thank y'all for love to the helicopter Listen, I know y'all Y'all mad at me Wizzy wants to stay a horn

She took the tappiness But you know what I find that a good to have conversations that get sticky because the thought is still there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, now I gave the trigger warning and I'm over here. Sorry, God.

Yeah. Not everything here. Yeah, I always say you don't have to have done porn or been a prostitute to relate to some aspect of my story, whether it's self-worth, I'm sorry, whether it's drugs, alcohol, whether it's molestation, essay, things of that nature, or just, you know, the relationship with your mother,

you're going to see something about yourself within my story without having to go. Girl, you hold in every trauma. It's crazy. Yeah. If you, anything, you went through therapy before I sent that book, that's what you say. Her thing, friend. Well, thank you so, so much for joining us. This was, wow, different.

You know, I know we've been doing the solo pods, but hopefully you like the direction that we went with this guest. But this was, it had to be Beyonce for them to be happy, but they're going to be real happy with this song. No, this was great. And I hope that y'all see our improvement on our interview skills. They did very well. Y'all said, look, y'all change.

Look at Weezy's dress. I know. I ain't going to hold you. I ain't never seen Wazy look for a hosome. She looked like a wholesome. She looked like a hosome Puerto Rico. She looked like she just did my choir. You know what I'm saying?

She's my choir director. I was telling me, and Diggily, I said this was the outfit when I go to my boyfriend's parents. That's what I consider a church fit. No, very. I just knew I wanted to come to talk about. And, you know, they church you, too.

They do a happy birthday for, like, there's a bunch of nieces and nephews. And after they sing happy birthday, they start singing, J-E-S-U. I'm not joking. It sing for Jesus, too. Yeah, happy birthday, June.

And then I'll be like, we're on our way to a threesome baby. Oh, my goodness! Well, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Make sure again you purchase from porn to the pulpit. Make sure you also purchase

No-Hose Bar to do a manifesto of sexual exploration and power. And make sure if you want the sex and launch and the X-rated shit, head on over to... Shit, can I say shit? Ship. If you want the X-rated ship

The stuff Head on over to the Patreon That's patreon.com backslash horrible Decisions, baby Hallelujah And thank y'all so much for tuning in To another episode of Decisions

Decisions. We should ask for donations That would be Yeah, yeah Past offers for it. Hey, y'all can donate on Patreon Bye y'all This is an I-Heart podcast

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