The Breakfast Club - Dr. Boyce Watkins Interview

Episode Date: March 27, 2015

Dr. Boyce Watkins stops through to discuss finances and what steps to take in order to save money and start your own business. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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club we have a special guest in the building this morning that's right dr boyce watkins good morning sir what's happening brother how you doing oh everything's good long time pal of mine you know we've been having a conversation for the past two weeks about a financial i call it illiteracy you know ever since mr damon dash conversation for the past two weeks about a financial, I call it, illiteracy. You know, ever since Mr. Damon Dash left. And it sparked up a good conversation in our community just about finances and entrepreneurship. Investing. Investing and self-empowerment.

So I wanted to reach out to a financial expert that I know, Dr. Boyce Watkins. Now, for people who aren't familiar, tell them why you're a financial expert. Well, I have a Ph.D. in finance, and I taught finance for about 20 years, University of Kentucky, Indiana University, Syracuse University, et cetera. So, you know, I know a lot about money. I know what it's like to not have any money. I used to really want money. That's why I majored in finance. I wasn't even really supposed to go to college.

I figured if I studied money and learned about money, somebody would pay me money to talk about money. But then I really also learned how money can be used as a tool not just to liberate you, but it can also enslave you. I mean, we have a lot of multimillionaires in our community that are scared of their own shadow, that are just afraid of everything, afraid to be controversial, etc. And I think sometimes if you look at money in the wrong way, money, it's powerful like fire or like a drug. Like fire can either cook your food and keep you warm or it can burn you and your family alive. A drug can either heal you and make you better or it can turn you into an addict. So that relationship with money, I think, is important because most of us think about money several times a day, every day.

And you wrote several books on finances as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, I wrote a book called Black American Money. I have another book coming out called It Takes a Village to Raise the Bar, a new paradigm for black America. And it's basically talking about, uh, you know, just ways to think about money in ways that, that money can really be the next step in our civil rights movement, you know, because, uh, you know, if you have political power without, without any economic power, um, that's kind of like, um, having a driver's license, but not having a car, you know, like you, you're not going to go anywhere unless somebody else wants you, uh, wants to give you a ride. And then at that point, like you're not going to go anywhere unless somebody else wants to give you a ride.

And then at that point, you're still only going to go where they want to take you. Gotcha. Now, question. Dame Dash, we mentioned that earlier. What did you think of Dame Dash's interview? You know what? You described him as a breath of fresh air.

Yes. Well, you know what? Here's what I like about Dame. I liked the energy that Dame comes with. Like, I like, to me, I think that so many black men have been so emasculated economically. And it's not something that Dame comes with. Like, I like, to me, I think that so many black men have been so emasculated economically, and it's not something that just recently happened. It's been happening for hundreds of years,

that I like the idea of just having a call to manhood and kind of saying, you know, look, we can do better. You know, and sometimes, like, you think about it on the football field, you know, your coach that motivates you to play, sometimes he's going to punk you out. He's going to be like, you know, you were playing like a playing like a bitch you know get up you know you you need to win you know but uh the thing is i think with dame it's interesting because um you know he's he's a little bit like uh i think he was trying to be kind of like an economic version of a harriet tubman like you know i'm gonna get

these slaves off the plantation i'm gonna shoot you if i have to but um but you know we all understand that in order to uh escape the plantation you have to have a plan, right? To go to war, you have to have a battle strategy. But not having the strategy in hand right away does not give you an excuse to not fight. And I think that, and so that's what I like about Dame. I think Dame started a conversation. We weren't really talking about this kind of thing, you know, two or three weeks ago. So I'm glad he did it.

But it's deadly. It's very deadly, and it could hurt a lot of our own, especially a lot of you. There's a lot of different things that were said, some things that we may agree with, some things we may not agree with. Let's play some of Dave's rhetoric. Let's just start with that. So you enjoy the safety and the security of a job every day. But there's no pride in that to me.

Now, let me ask you a question. There's millions of people out there that don't have that opportunity and have a boss every day. So you're basically saying because they have a boss, there's no pride in it? I think because people on the radio tell people it's okay to have a boss. They don't understand that they can have more. It's just a pride you should have in ownership. So how do you get to that platform? How do you get to the platform?

By putting your own money up and investing in yourself. And that's the reason why we set up the platform so they don't have to do anything. You have a boss. But you know what else is interesting? You have a boss. How can a man say he has a boss and be proud? Okay, no pride in having a job. Having a boss is like calling another man daddy.

And how can you have a boss and be proud? I think that it's okay to have, I mean, everybody has some kind of a boss on some level. Like with the interview you did with Andy, I think is his name. Andrew, yeah. Andrew, yeah. has some kind of a boss on some level like with the interview you did with andy i think is his name um you know andrew yeah there's always you know even if you own your own business you have someone that you have to answer to you have something right every day when i get up and i'm motivated i'm answering to the boss that lives inside of me that's saying if you don't get off your butt you're not going to achieve your goals so everybody kind of has some sort of boss the question is whether or not uh you're being pimped by your life whether or not

someone is is boss is is your boss to the point where you don't feel free you know you don't have any degrees of freedom in your life you feel stuck in your own existence um i think in that situation you have to make a change because here's the thing here's the thing and a lot of people don't get this if if you work for me and i'm the reason that your children get to eat every day, I'm the reason that your wife has a roof over her head, you're not really the man of your house. I'm the man of your house. And so I think that having someone you answer to is okay,

but if you can somehow shift your situation where everything is a partnership, where you have options. You know, for example, one question you could ask is, do you have FU money? If somebody in your job calls you the N-word or disrespects you or you just hate your job, do you have enough put aside, do you have enough other options so you can walk in and say, FU, I'm out? If you can't really do that, then I would say you have to adjust something in your life. Just because you're committed to something doesn't mean you don't have options. So, you know, is there no pride in having a boss?

I mean, I don't think we can agree with a statement like that per se, because there's dignity in working hard no matter what. But I do think that if you are being pimped by your life, you've got to make an adjustment. Like I tell some of my friends who might complain all the time, I hate my job, I hate my boss, I hate this. I'm like, well, you can't complain about it for too long. You got to do something about it. In that case, if you really hate it and it's not what you want to do at some point, instead of complaining for years and years and years, you got to get up off, you know, and do something, change it, get a new job, create some more opportunities. Yeah, absolutely. I mean,

you know, a lot of what I think we have to embrace is the idea. And I want to believe I want to believe the best about what Dame was trying to do. And I think that this is a conversation that has to be had with a community, not with one person leading this was me, him or anybody else. You know, all these ideas have to be laid on the table. But I think that what we need to really consider is the idea and the importance of building things. We need a nation of builders. That's why I love Louis Farrakhan, for example. He's one of my favorite black leaders because he built his stuff. He didn't climb up somebody else's tree.

He planted the seed and grew his own tree and climbed to the top of that. I mean, the baton was passed. Right, the baton was passed. But at the same time, there's a building mentality within the nation of Islam that I think we can all learn from. It does not mean that you don't form partnerships. It doesn't mean there's no pride in working for other people, per se. I mean, I can't sign off on something like that. But I do think that we have to resurrect the pride of building as opposed to just borrowing.

Because what we don't understand sometimes is that, and I'm really talking about people of color right now, a lot of this stuff that's out here, it wasn't really built for us. You know, it wasn't. I mean, these corporations were created by other people of other ethnicities 100 years ago. And we get in there and we somehow become disappointed and surprised when we're treated differently because we're black and we don't get the same opportunities. But you can't really move in somebody else's house and then expect to be able to shift around the furniture. It just does not really work. So I think taking that pride in building your own house and being proud of that, right?

Because think about this. If you start your own business, you're not going to be balling for a while, if ever, right? But you have to realize you can't judge the quality of a tree by the size of the seed. Every tree is going to start tiny and you grow that and you grow that over several generations. Even large companies like the Ford Motor Company, if you look at the history of the seed. Every tree is going to start tiny, and you grow that, and you grow that over several generations. Even large companies like the Ford Motor Company, if you look at the history of a company like that, it started off as a tiny seed.

It was nothing. Now it's massive, and I think we have to ask ourselves not about what's happening in 2015, but what's going to be happening in 2115 with our grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-great-grandchildren.

What are you passing on to them? I think we're planting no seeds now. I think this is the first generation of wealth for black people. Civil rights act was signed in 1964. We were still in segregation 51 years ago. Yeah, but I'll tell you, man, I don't even know if black people have that much wealth. I mean, the average— Are you starting to see the first round of billionaires?

You're seeing some of the black elite doing extremely well. I don't think that the black middle and lower class are doing all that well. It doesn't take time though. One thing I do agree with is as a kid growing up, I didn't learn about being an entrepreneur or investing. My parents didn't. My pops was a police officer. My mom worked at Guardian Life Insurance. They didn't instill that in me. I instilled that in my kids because I was a little different. But the problem I had with Dame when I say it's deadly is, you know, you tell these kids, don't have a boss.

You get out there and do it. And see, the problem with Dame is, you know, if you listen to Dame or you listen to past interviews or you listen to Ho's records, you see that they started their business from illegal money. Illegal activities. Illegal activity.

So you're encouraging kids, well, I don't have a boss. I started like this. No, I went to college. I went to high school, got my degree. I went to college, got my degree. I started working, saved my money. And that's how I built my empire.

You know, and you're telling kids, well, you shouldn't do that. And that was my problem because a lot of kids listen. Well, he is saying sell T-shirts now. You're going to play dumb with that. But we're trying to get money to sell T-shirts, though. That's true, too. We're trying to get money to sell T-shirts. Yeah, I'm with you.

The drug dealer up front, you got to have capital. You got to have some coke or some weed. I'm with you. But you got to have some capital. And the way you get capital is having a job and putting money on the side. And I don't see nothing wrong with having a boss. Let me tell you, I agree with you. I think we can agree on that for sure.

And one thing I'll supplement with, and it's not really a matter of fighting about it one way or the other, is there's a book called The $100 Startup, which basically explains how you can start a business for under $100. And I know this type of stuff works because I started something with my brother for about $700 a couple of years ago. We made a quarter million dollars within two years. Right. So just from that one business. Right. So and the thing was, if I hadn't been thinking like, OK, what can I create? What can I generate? I never would have done that. Right. Because sometimes we get caught in thinking that a job is something that someone is supposed to give us. A job is also something you can I generate, I never would have done that. Right. Because sometimes we get caught in thinking that a job is something that someone is supposed to give us. A job is also something you can create.

It doesn't mean you have to do it. But one thing I do say is I think every parent, every parent who cares about their kids should teach their child how to have their own business, even if they go work for somebody else. It doesn't mean that you have to be an entrepreneur. Everybody isn't built for that. But what I would say is either run something or invest in something. So for example, if I got together with three other people and let's say the other three didn't want to be entrepreneurs, they didn't have the time, they want to keep their jobs. Well, everybody comes up with, say, $2,000. You pull together that six. I get my 25% of the company, but with equities because I've got free time. So I'm going to run the company because I have the expertise and the free time.

You guys are investors. Therefore, we all own something. Where do you get that money from, though? Well, if you're working, I mean, you know, if you've got a job, you can come up with $2,000 over time. It may take you a year to save it or whatever, but you can come up with that. I mean, we invest in so many other things. I mean, people always say black people can't really create jobs, and I don't think that's true. We create a lot of jobs for other people.

When we're spending all this money on these brands and all this other stuff that we do, we're not thinking where that money is going. And I think that is the problem that we're sort of letting our power escape. Like money is your power and you cannot give your power away because at the end of the day, you will be powerless. I just I recently read an article about an entrepreneur. He was working at a phone store, right, where a lot of the phones that they don't sell, they don't have anything that they can do with it. Everybody, you know, it might be some old phones that are just laying around. He started his own business that turned into a billion you, and he was selling those phones that they didn't use at the store. He was like the go-between person, selling them to companies that had to give their employees cell phones, and he turned it into a billion-dollar business just from working at this cell phone store.

It's all ideas. Yeah, it is. And I don't think he really needed much money to start that. He just started mediating those because he saw a need. He saw that there was this overflow of phones, and then he saw that there were companies that needed to give employees phones and didn't want to spend a whole lot of money. So he just merged the two ideas together. Yeah, there you go.

And the thing is that to come up with those ideas, you have to have a certain kind of spirit. You have to have, you know, I mean, really creating a job for yourself, it's a little bit like the difference between somebody who thinks that they can only eat if the grocery store has food or if the restaurant serves them versus somebody who says, well, actually, if worse comes to worse, I can grow my own food. I can cook my own food. I'm not going to starve. You know, so you should never starve to death because somebody would not bring food to you. You should know how to create your own food. So I think it's an idea, you know, in terms of creating opportunities, it's about building the entrepreneurial spirit, which starts with taking pride in that. I have more, so much more respect, you know, when I hear about young

brothers that don't have much who say, I own something, I'm building something. Then I have for people who say, oh, I work for such and such corporation, I'm making a lot of money. It doesn't mean that both people aren't accomplished, but, you know, i really think we have to build because i i really think that this affects us politically and socio-economically in the sense that people can never people don't respect you when you're always begging for something malcolm x talked about that he said look as long as you are begging for jobs from businesses that you do not own you will always be severely unemployed and if you look at the unemployment disparity in 1965, 1964, when Malcolm was saying this, to

2015, it hasn't changed that much. And that's why it's dangerous to tell people there's no pride in having a job. We're already complaining about being unemployed. I think that you can be proud if you are a proud person, but I think at the end of the day, you have to figure out what you're comfortable with, what you can live with. Let's be

real. Racism is stressful for dealing with there's an angry black middle class of people who did all the right things they went to school they worked hard they got these corporate jobs and they are pissed off because they know they're being treated unfairly but they don't feel like they have any options so and and some in as many cases i mean there's studies that show this affects your health i mean it for man a man, it kills your testosterone. You know, you get people get cancer. I mean, people get sick off of this stuff. So my thing is, you know, you have to find a way to liberate yourself and restore your manhood. Because I think it affects our families, because I think that black women have a hard time really respecting black men the way they should, because many of us have been so beaten down by the society. We don't know to do we're not in positions of power right right right and i'm not i'm not

saying this is there's some sort of fundamental flaw in who we are i'm saying that maybe we need to resurrect some ideas that can that can restore that that power manhood there was nothing better that happened in my life in terms of dealing with racism than when i figured out how to start my own stuff you know i mean it just it made me uh, I mean, it just, it made me stronger. It made me prouder. It made me more courageous. You know, I got into this crazy, when I worked at Syracuse University, I was, you know, I was dealing with all this racism and all this stuff.

And I got into this big fight with Bill O'Reilly about something. He had said, he made a joke. You remember that? Yeah, he got, he made a joke about lynching Michelle Obama. And I, and I didn't like that. So, you know, we got into it or whatever. Well, he worked really hard to get me fired. And I mean, I'm talking about really hard.

To the point where multi-million dollar donors are saying, we're not going to give money to your school because you've got a racism. You know how O'Reilly does. Is that why you stepped down? That played a big part in it, yes. And the only defining factor in terms of whether or not I could stand by what I said versus apologize for something I did not do was

whether or not my financial situation was right. The FU money. Yes. When your money, when your FU money is right, you have the ability to be a little bolder. I'm not more courageous than other people. I just check my money, check my bank accounts, check my business and said, okay, if I get fired, I'm going to be okay. Right. You understand? So, so that's the idea. And the thing is, it doesn't, it wasn't just my situation. I think this is a microcosm of what so many of us experience every day. Just make sure you've got options for yourself. If you've got options, I think you're going to be all right.

I want to ask you about what you said. If I'm misquoting you, let me know. You said that a man is not a man if he has a job. You're not the man of your house. The boss is the man of your house. You know what? I will say this. It is fundamentally flawed for you to depend on the descendants of your historical oppressors to get the things that you need in order to survive but the reason i ask you that because you like somebody like you you went to school you busted

your ass to get your degrees to put yourself in that position to make that money so it's not like they're giving you something you earn that that position. Yeah, I earned it. But understand, I mean, you know what? For example, when I when I got my first job as a professor, I was the first black person they'd ever hired in the 100 year history of that department. But I was not the first smart black person to apply for that job. Right. We've had brilliant black people since there since black people came into existence. But I was the first one to get that opportunity. So understand it. I mean, if someone doesn't force certain people to open the door, they just won't. They'll just when I in fact, I'll give you a good example. When I graduated from college, you know, I was the number one

student in my whole senior class. I won awards for it and everything. Got two bachelor's degrees in four years. I mean, I busted my butt in school. I wanted to work on Wall Street. And it's funny because I'm staying on Wall Street this week. And it made me think about this. I sent out 200 resumes to 200 Wall Street firms and got 200 rejection letters. Wow. Yes. You know, and I mean, hurt me to the core, right? But, you know. All you needed was one yes, though.

Yes, absolutely. One yes would have made a big difference in my life. But at the same time, sometimes not getting what you want, it's a lot like a relationship where, you know, you've been in love with somebody and they didn't want you. And then maybe a year later you realize you're happy that they didn't want you because you found somebody better. Right, right.

And it was the same way with that. I can't explain when you own your own stuff, when you get a chance to feel that power of being a boss, it goes far deeper than the money. If you're doing it just for the money, I think you're missing like 90% of the equation. I mean, I don't love money. I mean, you know, I studied capitalism and finance. I know all about that, but it's just, I breathe easier every day. I get up, I don't just crawl out of bed. I bounce out of bed. Right. You know, it's so, I think everybody should get a chance to feel this. And I think we got, we definitely have to start with our kids, you know, and don't, and there's no excuse to say well I don't understand entrepreneurship I can't teach this to my kids the best university in the history of the world is called google.com and youtube.com you can

literally go to youtube university and learn everything you want to know we actually have a website called financial juneteenth as well that people can go to but that's one of a billion this I would recommend that over just going to random youtube videos there's some poison out there too okay there you go all right there you go okay well I got the endorsement for Charlemagne That's one of a billion. I would recommend that over just going to random YouTube videos. There's some poison out there, too. Okay, there you go. All right, there you go. Okay, well, I got the endorsement for Charlamagne. Thank you, brother.

But, no, yeah, but in all seriousness, like, I mean, the information is out there. And sometimes, really sometimes, it's something small. It might be something like just saying to your kids, yeah, one day make sure you own your own business. If you say that a few times a year, your child will hold on to that. You know, I knew a guy who's a 27-year-old millionaire, and that's what he said. He said, my dad did not, he didn't have his own business, but he just always said to me, you should have your own business. He didn't explain how to do it. He just said, this is what you should do. So that's what I did. And now he's doing really well. And my dad was a cop like your dad. And so we understood the value of hard work. I don't know about your dad, but my dad was a very tough guy.

He was a Vietnam vet. And I think the reason that I don't have a big problem with what Dame Dash said is because my dad has a little bit of that in him. My dad, he would straight up punk me when I got to feeling sorry for myself or like, oh, the world won't do this for me, do that for me. And if you sort of sift through that energy that you're receiving that might bother you or assault your masculinity, you realize, okay, maybe he has a point. Because at the end of the day, nobody really cares that much about you in this world.

He's absolutely right about empowerment. He's absolutely right about ownership. Hold on a second. But you know what? It was my dad that actually made me become an entrepreneur because, like you said, my dad was a police officer, so he was very hard on me. And him being so hard on me, I didn't want to work for anybody. I would never want to have a boss like that's what it up so I started doing mixtapes and started on my own and selling because I didn't want a boss and for me like I told Dane radio was my

passion I love it like now people get up and you say you get that bounce in the morning I'm not tired I enjoy coming to work there's not a day when I'm like damn it I gotta come to work when I miss work too many days I start fidgeting like I'm like I gotta get to work I start calling Charlamagne like what you doing yes I call him, like, what you doing? Where you at? You know, because I love this job. But to back what you said, there's a lot of people that don't need to be entrepreneurs, that don't have that in their heart. So that people who need to invest, what can they invest in? Because that's something that people just don't know. They don't, they're scared of the stock market, so they don't know what they can invest in. They hear about the

stock market going up and down. They feel like real estate is too much money to put 10% down or 5% down on a home. So what would you advise for that person that doesn't want to be an entrepreneur or doesn't have the time or has kids that just wants to invest their money? What would you tell them to put their money in something that can make money, not just a bank where they're going to make 2% out of 100 years. Something that they could possibly make some money. Well, when I first got started investing, I put my money in mutual funds. And it's not complex. If you just go to your bank and say, can you show me some mutual funds I can invest in?

They'll show you what to do. They even have scenarios where you can set up a drip where you take a little bit of your paycheck. It could be $10, $50, whatever. And it goes in this account over time and i can tell you this because of the taxes it's right there go a lot of it yeah if you do like a 401k like a tax divert type thing or 403b um you know that that can be the start of kind of thinking about investing and what that's what i did i mean you know i had money going into my retirement account and believe it or not actually when i did finally leave my job and start my own business, my retirement account, which had built up over the years, it kind of played like it was it played the role of a small bank for me.

Right. Because sometimes you can't get the capital you want. Sometimes a bank won't lend it to you and you just don't have it. So sometimes I borrow against myself or whatever. And what I found, too, though, was that there are so many opportunities when it comes to investing in the black community. So many opportunities are just overlooked. And literally I was able to double and triple my money pretty quickly. Just off the bank stuff?

Yeah, just off of our... Diversifying your portfolio. Yeah, well, now the mutual fund part, that is diversification. Like a mutual fund is not something where you're picking a stock or trying to pick the right stock at the right time. Your money is invested in thousands of stocks. And really really i just put my money in and i just made sure i had a certain like balance as far as risk you know not too much risk not too little and then i just left it alone but that's you know that's longevity most especially african-americans

they want that money now like they don't want to wait 20 years down the line to see that money flip what do you better go sell that crack don't sell crack with something with more risk like what do you advise because you know the line and see that money flip. They want to flip that money. Don't sell crack. Something with more risk. What do you advise? Because I have my money in mutual funds and bonds, but you look at that money, my kids will see that. But what can they invest in now that says,

you know what, here, try this, or look at this, or maybe this might be for you where I can make a quicker flip. Well, two things. One, there are billionaires being created every day on the internet. I'm telling you, these Silicon Valley cats, they've got it figured out.

They create value very quickly with very little capital investment sometimes. All that social media apps with Snapchat, Twitter. Those apps are killing. And then, on top of that, I would say partner with someone that identifies a need and help fill it. It might be something as simple as,

my friend bakes cookies really good, and when she goes to work and brings her cookies, everybody loves them. So would you ball that guy's cookies? My son sells cookies. Everybody sells cookies. And I don't know what cookies might be. Dave's dad's son sells cookies too. Oh, really? Oh, does he? Yeah, I mean, maybe there's money in cookies. I don't know. I don't know. cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies cookies i don't know i i don't know i like cookies i like cookies i've been dave seven years and my son

sells cookies well you know i i mean you know so so a lot of times you know i can tell you i've made most of my money like that just identifying a little need and and and you know if i have a friend that wants to do something and they need $500 to get started, I invest. I own half the company or whatever and then you make money that way. Most of my money has been built from small businesses I created

online and offline as opposed to the long-term stuff at the stock market. So I think people should do both. A little bit of both. That would be real, realistically. So now you opened up a business. Who do you hire to run your business? Who do you hire as your employees? Do you hire African-Americans, or do you hire people that best suit the job? I think you do both.

I'm a big fan of hiring black people because people tend to hire people like them. That's why a lot of times people think it's a race issue with the employee discrimination, but actually it's just like, no, I'm just hiring people who I relate to. Right. Relate to me. Yeah. Sometimes black people, we're the only ones who kind of fall for that that lie that we shouldn't love our love people that are like us and support our own community. If you go to like Jewish communities and Arab communities, I mean, they are hooking up their family members first and foremost. Now, at the same time, you know, you don't want to hire relatives who are going to screw up your company or or ruin your relationship by doing a bad job.

So there are some relatives I would never hire in a million years. But but I'm always when I have an opportunity, I look to the people around me first. I take care of people in my circle, in my family, blood family or not. Right. And then if i can't find somebody in my family then i might go outside of that um this company uh sites like odesk and elance where you can find contractors at a good price stuff like that if you don't have a lot of money uh but but i'm i'm a big fan of supporting y'all i mean why wouldn't we do that i mean that's that's really essential to survive a lot of people are scared of our own a lot a lot of i think a lot of african americans are scared to hire our own and are fearful of our own. You know, it's one of those things. It's like you're scared of yourself. And I see that a lot.

You know, I think sometimes the biggest supporters of white supremacy are black people, actually. You know, we truly believe that we are a flawed brand of society. We, some of us, you know, we really, we say things about ourselves that are disparaging. Many of us, because we don't have we don't always have a culture to connect to. Remember, a lot of black history doesn't even start for many of us before slavery. We don't we have no clue what happened to us before we arrived on slave ships. So for many of us, we we might assimilate, latch our minds on to attaining acceptance within, say, white institutions as a sign of progress. Right. We'll say something like, okay, well, so-and-so was the first black man to get into Harvard, and I'm

very proud of that, which, fine, okay, Harvard's a good school. You should be proud of Harvard. Right, right, right, right. But here's the thing, though. You don't really hear white folks saying, well, this is the first white man to get into Morehouse. They don't care. They don't consider assimilation or acceptance by us to be a step up. But we consider assimilation

and acceptance by them to be a step up, and I just don't think that that's a healthy way to think i look at things like that i'm like it's not the black person that's making progress harvard is making progress because they're finally accepting us exactly exactly and and and i mean and we're i mean we are such a strong and capable people i mean intellectually physically and otherwise you know even if you look at sports you know like there there really is no sort of white version of shaquille o'neal, no white version of Kobe Bryant. I think that there is something about the fact that we survived hundreds of years of the most brutal torture ever dropped on any group of human beings on the planet. And I think that's what makes people fear us.

And so if you fear something, if you are a trainer of a big elephant and you know that elephant could crush you in a second, what do you do? You have to control the elephant's mind from the very beginning and make him think you're the boss and i think that's kind of what happens to us i think that we're trained to hate ourselves so much uh we we will kill each other we will you know dog each other out we won't support each other and i think that's a problem we will dis empire well you know what empire i don't think i think i think that lee daniels to some extent is might be dissing all of us you know i mean you know what? Dissed Empire. I don't think, I think that Lee Daniels, to some extent, might be dissing all of us. You know, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying, I'm not hating on people that enjoy the show.

I'm not attacking people who work on the show. But here's the thing. Black men are the most incarcerated group of people on the planet. I mean, there's no, we've incarcerated more black men in America than South Africa did during the height of apartheid. And if apartheid was considered the most racist regime in history and we incarcerate more black men than they did, what does that say about America? Right? So, given that that is

true, many of those incarcerations occur. Many of those men are innocent and women as well. It occurs Everybody in jail is innocent. Well, not everybody. I mean, that's what they say. Everybody says that. They don't say it, but there are so many cases. Everybody says they are. Oh, everybody in jail says that. Right, but everybody. I mean, that's what they say. Everybody says they are. They don't say it, but there are so many cases. Everybody says they are. Oh, everybody in jail says they're innocent.

Right, but every week on Your Black World, we're writing about some brother that went to prison in 1982 for something he didn't do. Did 30 years, then they gave him half a million dollars or something. Like, that's going to make it better. One brother, in fact, got $9 million because he was sent to prison for a rape he did not commit. But he was raped many, many times in prison. Caught HIV in the process. I just saw that story. That was awful.

Yes, and on top of that, the prosecutors, a year later, a year after they incarcerated him, found the guy who committed the crime, locked him up, but didn't release him and kept him in prison for 30 years, and he had a newborn daughter. This is the kind of atrocity, the kind of holocaust, really, that we're dealing with.

So in light of that, with that as the backdrop of all of this, we have to understand in many cases when that brother goes before that all-white jury a many a lot of times the prosecutor get a conviction all he's got to do is paint some picture of this black man being a thug that's why george zimmerman was released because they showed pictures of trayvon smoking weed like oh he was a thug but we know george zimmerman was the real thug right uh jordan davis when he got murdered for playing his music too loud they painted him as a thug in the courtroom there are a lot of that guy got sentenced to a lot of time he got he got his time thank god thank god but then you got brian banks the football player who was falsely accused of rape who lost his whole career because

of that that accusation his attorney told him he said brian you are a big black man uh if you go in front of that all-white jury they are going to send you to prison you're not going to get justice because you're a big black man. That's why you took the plea. A lot of brothers go to prison for taking the plea. We know this, right? So the question that I ask myself is- We're going to do an empire.

Right. Let me- I'm going to get the empire. The question I ask myself is, if you've got this all-white jury, many of whom don't even have any black friends, don't know a whole lot of black people, why is it so easy to convince them that this black man is a scary thug? Perception. Right.

Perception, which comes from many times in media okay so in my opinion it doesn't mean that i hate empire i saw it's a good show but i said you know i have to be a conscientious objector to the consistent uh the portrayal of black men as criminal thug gangster type people because that's not who we are i agree with you but this is my thing too. Art reflects life, right? And I feel like guys like Lee Daniels, they're only showing us one POV of African-Americans. They're not showing the guys like you. They're not showing, we need more stuff like Selma

showing guys like Martin Luther King Jr. We don't need any more slave movies. We could do it without the thug experience. We've heard that numerous amount of times in music and movies. So I don't think it's necessarily lee daniel's fault he's just showing us one pov of african americans yeah and in my opinion when i look at the trail of lee's work um he's showing kind of a very consistent pov that kind of shows this kind of the basement of black life just the the most the worst most disgusting things that happen in the black

community when i looked at precious i mean i was depressed when i walked african-american horror movie right it was like what the hell is this man like are you serious like that like this poor girl was getting crapped on the whole movie i hated it and then it's here's the thing when i found out it was i thought it was real but then when i found out it wasn't real i was like damn you could have a happy ending at least yeah it's like it's like it reminds me of quentin tarantino his movies are so sick that you're just like man man, like, what did you go through as a child? So I literally studied Lee's background. Like I read his Wikipedia page in detail and try to just understand.

And if you look at Lee's background, he's experienced some horrible. Excuse my French. I didn't mean you good. You good. My bad. OK, you know, he's gone through some terrible things. And, you know, the trauma, the abuse, you know, being, you know, denied love by his family. He talks about his sister as an obese crack addict. And I think that when you go through that kind of trauma as a as a as a black person,

which a lot of us do, you can somehow associate your blackness with just the very worst things that can happen in a society. So what do you do then? Then you somehow might be convinced that maybe on the other side of town, where the white folks live, that that's the paradise. That's where you want to be. That's where life gets good. And I think that that's unfortunate because I think there are a lot of healthy experiences that occur in the black community and I don't see those portrayed as regularly in me. I mean, but black-ish, you got black-ish now.

Yes, I love black-ish. Black-ish. But this is the problem though. You look at Empire, right? Or Love & Hip Hop and you say, you know what? This is not positive for my people, but it's going to make me a lot of money. Right? Then this is the problem. You say, well, if I don't make it, somebody else is going to make it.

So why don't I make it and make the money? Why we can't just look at it as entertainment? Like how you said about white people when you said white people. Because if I make the money, I can put the money into positive things and maybe help. Maybe he's doing it and maybe help the youth. Maybe he's doing it, maybe he's not. But I look at some things like that where, you know, you look at your love in hip-hop and it's an F-ed up show,

and you look at Empire, and there's so many stereotypes. It pisses me off sometimes. Like, they're fighting it. Telecop's F, like, it's so stereotypical that when I walk out my house, I feel like my neighbors are looking at me like, mm-hmm, you know what I mean?

Envy's right, but how you said about white people, they don't look at white people getting into Morehouse as an accomplishment. Do you think they look at their own entertainment and say, Quentin Tarantino is bad for white people? The stuff he makes, all the music that- Well, people are mad about the Sopranos and Mob Wives. Italians were.

Italians were. But do white people get upset like how we do? And say, it's not affecting our people. Well, I think the whites have the luxury. Again, this does come back to white privilege and white supremacy to some extent. I mean, because they own the media outlets, they get such a diverse array of portrayals. But I have a lot of friends in Hollywood, I'm sure you do too, who will say, you know, I get tired of going into auditions and having them tell me to be the black woman with the attitude,

swing my n***a, talk loud, et cetera. Or I get tired of being asked to be the black man who portrays a thug. I remember I was very proud of Idris Elba because he took a stand and was saying, like, there are certain roles I just will not play, even for Tyler Perry. And he was in a Tyler Perry movie. And so the thing about media to me is that media is just one of the most powerful forms of propaganda known to man. Michael McAtee. Right. You control the media, you control the mind.

Yes. I mean, Hitler used media to justify the persecution and the abuse and the slaughter of the Jews. All you got to do is you paint them as menaces to society, as these fundamentally dysfunctional people, these almost like roaches and maggots that you have to exterminate, and then people will sign off on allowing you to exterminate them. Well, it's hard to argue that that's not what's been consistently happening with black people i mean even when we were being lynched on a regular basis they didn't just lynch black people just for being black they would always have an excuse it would always be well he was he touched that white woman or or he stole some cookies or we back to cookies right right right

i guess i'm gonna eat some cookies after you know i know right i need some cookies but you know so so so you know at the end of the day i think I think that a lot of what we're seeing in media, we have to make sure we don't fall for this idea that it's just entertainment. I mean, that's how propaganda works is you convince people it's just entertainment. And nothing is just entertainment. Most of the time there's an agenda. Even Lee and his producers said that, you know, our goal is to blow the lid off homophobia in the black community. They understand that entertainment does have an impact on the way people think. and his producer said that you know our goal is to blow the lid off homophobia in the black community they understand

that entertainment does have an impact on the way people think that's true I actually said when I heard him say that statement I said I think

Lee you care more about homophobia than we do yeah you know what I'm saying I ain't tripping off it like that but the problem is

especially in our community we idolize that and like Charlamagne says all the time we like to go to the schools and talk to the kids but you know growing up in Queens I see my dad and I see my dad work mad overtime to make sure my Christmas was great and spent a lot of money to put me in Catholic school. But then I would see all the drug dealers driving up the block working an hour or two and they had the expensive cars, the nice jewelry, the women.

And I think for our community, we look at that as making it. We don't look at the family as I have my mother and father in the household, and I had my father there on Christmas, and my father never went to jail. We don't look at that. So when you see some of these movies, and we talk about some of these movies, Menace to Society,

and what's the other movie that you just said the other day that you love? Boys in the Hood. Boys in the Hood. Juice. Juice. What's the next movie? New Jackson City. You know, because those movies we love. We love watching it, and we enjoy watching those type of movies. I never gave a damn about Tony Montana. I was a little proud Stites movie. Oh, New Jack City, baby. You know, because those movies we love. We love watching it, and we enjoy watching those type of movies.

I never gave a damn about Tony Montana. I was a Neal Brown type of guy. He looked like me. Besides coming to America, I can't really think of a positive movie that I really— Yeah, but it was TV, though. Bill Cosby, A Different World. But we don't have none of that now. Martin was positive to me, because Martin had a job.

Martin did radio. And he loved the black woman, too. I mean, that's important as well. Absolutely. Besides that on TV, what do we have now? I'm going to be honest with you. You look at Scandal, it seems like the black woman, too. I mean, that's important as well. Besides that on TV, what do we have now? You look at Scandal, it seems like the black woman is the side chick. It's interesting because they just did an article that I was talking about in Deadline, right? And they were saying that right now the pendulum might have swung a bit too far in the opposite direction.

There's too few roles. Before, there were too few roles for actors of color in Hollywood. But now, according to this article, basically 50% of the roles in a pilot have to be ethnic, and the mandate goes all the way down to guest parts. And basically what they're saying now is that it's just swung too far in the other direction. I mean, I think there could be progress. I mean, I think that people being more sensitive to just here's the thing. The reason I like Black-ish is not because i believe that everything is is is cotton candy and cupcakes it's because blackish allows black people to be

human we're very diverse heterogeneous people um you know some of us are nerdy some of us you know some of us are scandalous whatever and i just like to see stuff that where where you're being black is not the first thing that people understand about your character right in fact when i went to south africa this week or a couple weeks ago um i love the fact that that people didn't care that i was black because everybody was black right you know at that point people want to know more about who you are as a person but sometimes in america the first thing people know is i'm a black guy and they and it comes with all this baggage and all these expectations and stereotypes and i think that's a heavy burden for all of us to carry.

I mean, that's like that in the media, too, because I'm the type of person, if I see a situation happen between a police officer and a young black male, I don't think this is a white police officer, black male first. The first thing I think is, what happened? I want to know the scenario first. Before I just jump to, oh, he was white, he was black, it was racism. Absolutely. I mean, that's what we would call critical thinking, which we have to do i mean and it's really important because we got so many cases that are being revealed now of of black people being shot by the police and i think the biggest mistake we can make

is assume is assuming that every white cop just wakes up with a bloodthirst and wants to kill black yeah who wants i don't want that kind of fear i find myself paranoid and scared like whoa yeah but at the same time we do know that racial profiling does absolutely it's very very real and i would say i would say envy can say i mean with your dad i assume you knew some cops that worked with your dad on the force um i know from my experience i saw the good and the bad right i mean i've seen cops that that just were good people that wanted to help and think about it i mean a good cop you know has a really tough job because you have to care about problems that are not yours you you know a lot of times you're helping people get a cat out of a tree or help, you know, just help somebody find directions or, you know, just little things that that a lot of us don't really want to do.

And then you're putting yourself in harm's way. But then you've got those cops who do abuse their authority. There are many reasons to be afraid of cops. We live in a society where people assume that cops are innocent and that if you are the quote unquote criminal, that somehow the cops should get the benefit of the doubt about what happened. Right. What also makes it difficult is when you had bad experiences with cops, that makes you not trust cops, period. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I think good cops should be taking the lead in terms of helping weed out bad cops. Absolutely. Because because it hurts. It hurts all of them. You know, because we need good cops in the world and in our community. I don't think anybody would want to live in a world without police officers. That's a fact.

Because I don't see a black cop and be like, he's good, and see a white cop and be like, he's bad. I just see cops, period, and be like, I'm staying away from all of them. Yeah, I'm away from that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, that blue wall of silence is real. Cops are, you know, threatened in many, many ways, sometimes threatened even with death for speaking up.

And I think that's, it's system that is really is the culprit there. So because you're just as likely to be abused by a black cop as by a white cop in many cases. So that's what we kind of have to deal with and not get so caught up in the black and white and not caught up in this idea that that every cop who shoots a black man somehow is a bad, evil person. I don't think cops just get up wanting to kill people every day. That's just my theory. But it's also media, though, too, because, you know, I look at my son, you know, and we live in a nice area in Jersey. So what he sees is what's on TV. So when you when you look on Channel 12 or Channel 1 or the news channel, all you see is young African-American on TV doing bad.

They never show positivity, never show show positive they'll say eight people shot in Newark this is what the suspect looks like eight people shot in Patterson two people shot in the Bronx two people shot in Brooklyn so my son starts to see African Americans as bad but you gotta show them different right I've never been the type to put that much cash a into the media my mother and father but my son has a dad there's a lot of people out there that don't have parents raising them, and they are raised from media and raised from music. There's a lot of kids out there like that.

That makes it difficult. That's what it's dangerous. And it's very dangerous. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, what we still, I think, have not quite figured out is that the mass incarceration epidemic that started in the 70s has obliterated the black family. I mean, this whole 72% of black children being born without a father in the house that didn't really start

until so many fathers were being sent to prison and marginalized i'll give you one example um there's a guy i know uh chicago mario lloyd sold some cocaine never killed anybody at least you know he wasn't convicted for anything like that somebody if he sold cocaine there you go well there was a family it was a good might be a woman that overdosed there you go somebody. Somebody could have killed somebody for that code. We got to stop saying that. Yes. OK. OK. Fair. Fair enough. He sold he sold cocaine. People were hurt by this. Right. Absolutely. But here's the interesting thing. When they when the feds took him away, they locked him. They gave him 15 life sentences for nonviolent first time offense. They locked up his mother. They locked up his sister and they locked up his sister, and they locked up his brother.

So the question is, when you... Conspiracy. Right, there you go. So when you lock up an entire family, what happens to those kids? I mean, 20 years later, Mario's son gets murdered in the same neighborhood that his father used to deal drugs in. You need those role models there.

You can't think a community's going to prosper when you're killing off all the men. But you know none of this would have happened if he would have never sold coke. And I mean, I used to sell dope, but it's just that simple. Right, I agree. I agree. Breaking the law is wrong. We all agree on that. But the punishment has to

fit the crime. I mean, 15 life sentences? I don't understand that. You know, another brother, Darryl Pageant, got 40 years for possessing a Graham McCrack. I mean, come on now. And if you really want to see people breaking the law, if you really want to see You know, another brother, Darryl Pageant, got 40 years for possessing a grandma crack. I mean, come on now. And if you really want to see people breaking the law, if you really want to see people possessing drugs, go to a college campus on the weekend.

But I guarantee you, they will never raid a college campus the way they'll go up in the hood and lock everybody up. And not only that, you said people shouldn't sell drugs. And I know this is going to be a tough statement, but I understand it at times. Like you said, you just named a young man that got to take care of his grandmother, his mother, and his brother. He's the man of the house. Get a job.

And you say get a job, but McDonald's making $9 an hour is not going to pay that job. Part of what makes that hard is the community, the environment that you grow up into. If everybody around you

is doing something and that's how you were raised and that's what everybody's doing, sometimes it's hard because that's the environment. I'm going to tell you why I don't understand it. I don't understand it because I've seen the outcome. The outcome is jail or death. Right. That's it. Right. everybody's doing. Sometimes it's hard because that's the environment. I'm going to tell you why I don't understand it. I don't understand it because I've seen the outcome.

The outcome is jail to death. That's it. That's it. So that's why I don't understand it. And Sandy is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. But I know people who have said, listen, I grew up in a terrible neighborhood.

That's what everybody's doing. That's what all my role models were doing, that everybody around me that just seemed normal. And so that's what makes it, I think, difficult sometimes for people. And then you give him 15 consecutive life sentences and he never has a chance to do something else or experience something else or get a second chance.

But there's always Jamal that didn't get the life sentences that made the money. There's always Charlamagne. There's the Charlamagne that didn't get it. But I don't think people get them type of opportunities no more. And here's another interesting thing. I mean, you know, when you talk about that scenario of working at McDonald's, I live on the south side of Chicago and a lot of those kids just cannot find jobs anywhere. In fact, there are some neighborhoods where a black youth or black man especially has an easier time getting a gun than he has of getting an education or getting a decent job.

You know, so so I think that is part of part of the issue as well. And then I think a fundamental question to really ask is, we know teenagers are just pretty stupid a lot of times, not dumb in terms of, but a lot of us did dumb stuff when we were teenagers. That's part of growing up. Antisocial stuff, right. So the question to me is, what's the cost of making a mistake, right? Why is it that for some people in our society, like you look at somebody like a George Bush,

that's what I was talking about. I actually wrote a book called What If George Bush Were a Black Man? Because I literally said, I said, thank you, brother. I appreciate that. I said, so what would have happened if George Bush were a poor black kid in Cabrini Green projects in Chicago and made the same mistakes he made? He'd still be there. Right.

Exactly. He would still be there or he'd be dead or he'd be in prison. He certainly would never have had a chance to become president and make up for his mistakes. Right. So I think that for some of us. Actually chance to become president and make up for his mistakes, right? So I think that for some of us... Actually, I'd become president and make more mistakes, but go ahead. Well, there you go. Well, yeah, I mean, well, he's a war criminal.

I mean, we know that, right? And so, you know, to me, I think that we have to really question why we have a society where, for certain people, one mistake at the age of 17 or 18 can destroy you for life. I agree with that. You know, my older brother figure, he was really my uncle, but he was like my older brother. You know, I remember when he went to prison at 17,

and I don't know what happened when he was in prison, but I know bad things can occur. And all I know is that when he came out, he just wasn't right mentally. You know, he only did two years, but prison is such a nightmare. I mean, people are being tortured in prison. Think about it. Getting raped. Getting raped. And we make jokes about that.. Think about it. Getting raped. Getting raped.

And we make jokes about that. That's not funny. Rape is not funny. It's not. It's okay. It's okay. Man rape is a little funny sometimes. No, it's not.

It's never funny. No. No. No. No. No. It definitely doesn't. No.

That's a nightmare. Right. It's a nightmare. It's torture. It's a human rights't. No. That's a nightmare. Right. It's a nightmare. It's torture. It's a human rights abuse. Yes. And so we put people through that, and then we think, oh, somehow you're going to come out and be rehabilitated. We know that's not going to happen.

No. And you're marginalized for life. You can't get a job. I mean, really, the truth here is that we live in a country now where incarceration has become profitable. So I think now we have a country where people don't really want you to get away from the system. Jails are on the stock market. There you go. Prisoners are on the stock market.

The private prisons. Exactly. Exactly. You need to come up here more often, man. I'd be glad to, bro. Let's play one more Dame Dash. Play the saving money clip. Because, you know, Dr. Boyce Watkins is a jack of all trades, but he's really good at finance.

And nine to fives aren't good because you hustling for a weekend. But, Dame, you act like you've never worked your way up to a position. You didn't just jump out of the tight room. I never had a job. But you didn't jump out of the tight room and got the oil and everything. Yes, I did. I went and grabbed it. I flipped.

From the womb? Yes, from the womb. I was Dame Dash the day I was born. But you didn't have everything that you have now from the womb, Dame. The way I got it was not by a job. I got it by putting up my own money. Like, one day I have a lot of money, and then the next day I don't. You know why?

Because I put it all in the street. You keep saying, yo, you just started. No, dog, I've always flipped. I don't put up money. Saving money is for suckers to me. I have so much confidence in me that I flip. And 20 years later, I'm still a boss, and you still got a job. I would love to close on this.

I think that the goal of being a boss is a good objective to have. I don't think everybody has to be Dame Dash. You know, there are many people who are bosses who have philosophies that might differ from Dame. I like the way he just he awakened the sleeping dragon with which is bold commentary. I mean, Dame Dash is Dame Dash. He's always going to be that person. But there's no Jay-Z without Dame Dash. We know that, that type of thing. And we have to give him credit for that.

Absolutely. His desire to take risk sometimes has led to tremendous fortune and sometimes some misfortune. But remember, you can't diss Dame's commentary per se just because he's not always doing as well as he might have hoped. Because remember, Donald Trump declared bankruptcy four times. Right. Right. So so so saving money for suckers. Right. Now, the idea of saving money being for suckers. No, I mean, come on that that you can't say that. But I would say that that simply saving money doesn't make sense. I think saving just doesn't make sense.

And having it just sit there. Right. Saving and investing is really the best approach, right? So the idea at the end of the day is find ways to keep your money in your pocket and put it into things that are going to empower you. Eventually, your money has to start working for you. And everybody can do it. Get out of what I would call the slave mentality. The slave mentality to me is when you will go work 10-12 hours a day because somebody told

you to come to work and they're going to give you a minimum wage paycheck, but when it comes to working half of that time to achieve goals for yourself, whether it be educationally or entrepreneurially or whatever, you can't put in the time. You ain't got time. You won't go get turned up. You won't watch Basketball Wives or whatever. That doesn't make sense to me.

Why would you spend more time building somebody else's dream and no time building your own? That makes no sense to me. I always tell interns, interns be like, well, how do I have time to go to school and have a job and do an internship? It's 168 hours in a week. You invest time in what you want to invest time in.

Period. There you go. There you have it. Dr. Boyce Watkins, we appreciate you joining us. Yeah, you got to come more often, man. I appreciate the invitation. I respect all you guys. Anytime you're in New York. Because, I mean, financial literacy is something that I think more of us need, especially after what I've heard the past couple weeks. I've heard some of the dumbest financial

tips from people. I'm like, y'all have no clue what y'all talking about. Well, I respect you guys and Charlamagne. I've always respected you. Back when we did stuff with you on Wendy's show, man, Charlamagne always respected me even when nobody else did. And that's why I love this brother. Thank you. Thank you, brother. Alrighty. It's the Breakfast Club, Dr. Boyce

Watkins. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka Stan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-A-S-T-A-N

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love.

I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself. You're trying your best, and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows, and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on. So join me, won't you?

Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people,

but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.