The Breakfast Club - Ed Sheeran Gets Personal w/ Charlamagne Tha God

Episode Date: July 15, 2019

In a worldwide exclusive, Ed sits down with Charlamagne to discuss love, life, and the making of his latest album, No.6 Collaborations Project.   Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Mess with Sydney Washington and Marie Faustin on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell us where we're at right now. We are in my treehouse. This is a treehouse. You got a treehouse studio. Yeah, this is where I made Divided and where I now do all my sort of work. While we're here, let me play you some Number 5. Number 5. Number 5. That was your original collaboration project.

Yeah, 2000 and, oh god, I want to say 10, but it actually came out first week of 2011. So this is before you was poppin' poppin'? Yeah, this is actually what made me pop. How do you think that shit held up? I mean, it's still one of my favorite projects I've done. Okay. I played one other one. From the top! And that's the project that got you signed, number five Yeah, well I did, I basically did five EPs before I got signed

And because I did, I was into so much stuff Much like with the project here There was, I was influenced by so much stuff So I had one record that I just did fully with the band The next record was like What my first album pretty much ended up being, and then I did one that was just completely acoustic, that was all written with this one girl as a duet, and then I did a live DVD and a live album of all of those, and then I did this, so this was number five of the EPs, and it was kind of like the momentum

of all of those that ended up getting me signed. Was your thought process the same when you made Number 5? Like, yo I'm just going to work with artists that I like? Yeah. Or back then you could only get the artists you could get because you wasn't like... No, no, because at this point, Devlin, Wiley, P Money, Jamie, Michael Payne, Getz, Random Impulse, Sway, Wretch, Dot Rotten, they were all top of their game. Gotcha, gotcha.

Like, and it was like, I actually had to like do a lot of convincing because I was quite, you know, I was a new artist. But what I'd do is I'd just turn up at like the studio with them. And then I was just persistent.

It was just like, we have to do a song, we have to do a song, we have to do a song. And then made it happen. You had a DJ Khaled level of annoyance. Yeah, but I think

I've had that same thing on this one, number six, just because you have to be persistent. You have to be on people to make it happen. So this one got you signed. What do you hope this project does, the number six thing?

What do you hope the number six does for you? When I made this, it wasn't like I'm going to get signed by making this. I made this because it was so much fun to make and it was all the artists I wanted to work with and I made these songs that I was just so proud to play my friends. And it's pretty much the same with with this one. If I was like, oh well it's gonna help me do this and help me do this. The fact is I've like I've already achieved more than I thought I could. So right now I'm at a point where I'm just having fun. Bruno Mars and Ed Sheeran, two kings of pop. Why the hell y'all did a rock record? Because exactly that.

Exactly. I think people do not expect that. Anytime I play that to anyone, the first chord, the first... Instantly people go... Instantly and I love that. I love that. What kind of rock is that? I mean, school me.

What is that? Heavy metal? What is it? I think it would just be rock, classic rock. Classic rock. I mean we did loads of songs and loads of different things, but we ended up on that song and it was purely by accident with having Chris Stapleton and it just seemed the most interesting. So nobody said, hey we should do a rock song?

No, well I mean Chris had the riff. Chris was there and then... What was it? And he played us the riff which was... And then we were like, oh let's write a song about that. Bruno took it away and unbeknownst to me, him and Chris had got together and fucked with it a lot. Throughout my whole career I've never had an excuse to get a band and now that's an excuse to maybe tour with a band. Because I think playing that live would be a different level.

I've seen you live a couple times. That would be difficult for you on stage with just the guitar trying to do that. You think you can pull it off? I had an idea to do both. I think people like my loop pedal and no one's seen me with a band that I think you could have a show that incorporates, I think it's time to have a show that incorporates both of them, personally. How long have you known Bruno? Because I feel like y'all have had similar paths. I met Bruno in 2010. I opened up for him at iTunes Festival.

Yeah, in 2011. And then, I don't know, we just hung out. I went and guested with him a couple of times on tour. We've had nights out together. It seems like y'all got an organic chemistry together. Yeah, well, I mean, he's a phenomenal writer. Phenomenal writer. I mean, he's written so many other songs. He did the Cee Lo Green Fuck You and God, I don't know. So yeah, Bruno, he's just a talented writer.

And he's so musically talented. He's played every instrument on that. Played the drums, played the bass, played the guitar. Like he's like different level in the studio. You really respect songwriters, man. It's like the same thing. You were listening to Howard Stern yesterday. And Howard Stern is like one of the greatest radio personalities.

You've got to look at your peers and the people you look up to. And, you know, I have a great respect of people that can do things that I can't do. I was shocked to find out that you get no help with your writing. Like you write everything yourself. Lyrically yes and but I think I need a lot of help with production and making songs you know and there'll be songs like The A-Team and Perfect and stuff like that that I'll just go in and I do a hundred percent myself whereas there'll be a song like Galway Girl which is quite a collaborative thing I'll just go in and I'll do it 100% myself, whereas there'll be a song like Galway Girl, which is quite a collaborative thing.

I'll go in with a folk band and then we'll all write it together with the folk band, but I would write the lyrics for that and then it would be shaped in it basically. Do you look at other artists different when you find out they don't write their stuff? Only if they have nothing to do with it. I just find I need to write songs to make me feel better about myself. You get out all your demons in music and then it kind of clears out your head. It's like therapy. It's exactly therapy. I saw Elton John call you one of the best songwriters of this generation. That's very kind of him. I don't know. I like writing songs, but I feel like I'm improving

day by day. By going in the studio with people like Chris Stapleton and Bruno Mars you're just expanding your palette and learning new things. I think you're growing by just living life. The older you get the more experiences you get. You can't become better unless you're around people who can teach you things. If I just worked in this studio things would start sounding a bit stale after a while. Which is what's so great about doing this collaborations project is I've worked with so many different people and seen how like Bruno's process versus

Travis Scott's process versus like Chance's process, we'll get onto it, but he literally puts a mic up and he just has the verse repeating and he's just there in the studio and it's kind of starts off as a mumble and then like words go in every now and then and then like the first sentence is done but the rest of mumble and he'll just do it over and over and over again and then the verse is done the most amazing thing I've seen people do it line by line but in terms of like he's memorizing all his mumbles and the cadence of the mumbles and then thinking of the lines and then memorizing the first lines and then getting to the end like there was no point that he stopped. It was just two hours of that, and then the verse was done,

which was a completely different thing for me to see. So I'm learning stuff like that every day, and since then have tried that. Tried putting, I mean, I can't do it yet, but putting songs together where you find a melody, and then you mumble the words and keep going, keep going, and then it starts to fit. So it's like learning stuff every day from people. So what did you learn from Bruno? Since you look at him as another amazing songwriter, was there any tricks you got from him that could make you better?

We kind of have the same approach for a lot of things. You know, you throw a lot of ideas at the wall. His ideas are just different to mine. When I was in there, he was like, look, the reason we're working together is we're both trying to get something from each other and if you just play the usual chords that you do, you might as well just be working on your own. So what would work is your melodies and lyrics over this and then if you have some chords that would go over this, then my melodies and lyrics go over this and then that's what

makes it interesting. So that chorus on the Blow song is a mixture of Chrisris a mixture of me and a mixture of bruno and it all kind of came together like that basically do you find yourself battling uh battling him oh yeah massively yeah yeah they make the amount of arguments where we're just kind of like you know i think at at the time he might i think he had two diamond singles at that point and i had one and and he and he was just like but I've got two diamond singles. And there'd be kind of like back and forth like that and then the next time I went in with him I'd got two as well.

So we kind of had a battle on that front. First world pop star problems. Jesus Christ. I know. What's next? South of the Border. Why did you pick those two young ladies to collab on that record? I've always wanted to make a song with Cardi B. Cardi B just, personality-wise,

even if you just had to talk in on a song. I love her. Cherry's obsessed with her. I've got to meet her a few times. She's very animated, very lovely. I always wanted her on a record. I met Camila in 2013 at the VMAs when she was in Fifth Harmony.

We've kind of always kept in touch and she's, I don't know if you've met her, but she's very, very, very sweet, very, very nice. It has a Latin flavor, you could say that. You know, she's from Cuba, she speaks fluent Spanish. And Cardi's Dominican? Yes. Yeah, and I just felt like it was a good mix. Spanish and Cardi's Dominican. Yes. Yeah.

And I just felt like it was a good mix. Since you and Bruno have such a friendly competition, when you see him have these records with Cardi, does that make you want to do that type of collaboration? I definitely saw the Finesse tune and was like, wow, man, gosh, I wish I'd done that. But then I couldn't have done it i can't dance like that it's just it would have been weird it would have been a weird thing so i feel like that is me and i feel like bruno does his thing with cardi but then cardi's like cardi's on a lot of records she's just you know i like bruno doing really well because it spurs me on to do really

well hopefully if i do well it spurs him on it's not like a there's never a vindictiveness in it it's just like oh he's doing that. I should work harder and do this rather than like, I want to be doing better than you. You and Cardi got similar energies too though because Cardi is authentically herself and you're authentically yourself. You think that's why you gravitate towards her? Yeah, I mean, I just, I love how unfiltered she is. You know, she's literally, she's so media trained not to be media trained. You know, like her whole shtick is

she goes on and says whatever she wants and that is what works for her. Whereas I never had a media training either. And I feel like I get to just say what I want. And she's successful because she is who she is. There's no one else that can beat Cardi B. And there's going to be countless people now that try to beat. She's had her success. And it's going to be fake. That's no one else that can be Cardi B. And there's gonna be countless people now that try to be.

She's had her success. And it's gonna be fake. Yeah. That's what I call trying to be fake real. You're trying to be fake authentic. Yeah, trying to be fake Cardi, yeah. Yeah. What's next?

Next is the Chance the Rapper and PNB Rock song. Don't worry about it, that's my C, that's all me. Just know if you cross her, then you cross me. What made you wanna get Chance on a record about your lady? You can just tell just from the way that his approach was to it His whole verse was like, just that line we were talking about yesterday The never say hi to me without her There's just a... you can't teach that level of respect

He's obviously brought up with a very, very strong loving mother And probably with a lot of women around him and it's good. I'll play you what we actually got the sample from, because it's a PnB sample. Oh, it's a PnB rock sample? Yeah, XXL, Freestyle. That was it. PnB made it a hotline, you her then you cross me. Push her up. This is all my- Woo! PnB made it a hotline, you made it a hot song.

That's hard. You said it's hard to write about, no it's easier to write about heartbreak than it is about love. But I feel like you captured that in that. I think it's easier to write multiple songs about heartbreak. To find the right fucking angle to write a love song about, which isn't just a, you make me feel this way. And it's like, find it, it's about finding different angles now for me.

It's not about, I've done Thinking Out Loud, I've done Perfect, I've done the love songs. About finding different angles now to do that. That's a different type of love song right there though. That's expressing love for you. Precisely. And I think, my view of it is that because it has so many ups and downs in the song, you know there's the bit where it just cuts out. You'll be dancing and then just suddenly you and your girl will rap this to each other.

And everyone will be doing that. I think it'll be fun. What was your lady's reaction when she heard that song? She said, finally. Finally you didn't make a depressing song about me, something we can dance to. Yeah, no, she likes it. She likes it a lot. But she likes, I think she likes the message of it, because it's quite, it makes her feel

like badass as well. You originally hear the song and it sounds like it's me being like, I'm going to be protected, but actually it's- Are you scared people might try her now because you got her out here looking like a tough guy? No, because I'm not a tough guy, but I've got a security guard. Hey! But he's grumpy, so he'd scare me away.

What's next? The Stormzy one. You're such an intriguing artist because you're a pop singer, R&B, but it seems like UK rap has influenced you just as much as all that other stuff. Yeah, well I think rap in general, but UK rap was the first intro for me into this was me doing that collaborations thing and I've been working with UK artists since then but you know we've kind of been friends for a very very long time but never really worked together. He remixed Shape of You for me but never really worked together

on a song. Everything happens for a reason and I feel like this happened for a reason. What's next? Next is the Yeba tune which I'd like to say I played this to Charlamagne yesterday and I played him Yeba just before I played this to Charlemagne yesterday and I played him Yeba just before I played him a song called Evergreen and he was obviously blown away because she's amazing. But then I do my verse on this song and he's like, I can tell she's just going to come and body you.

She's about to body you. And I was right. She bodied you on this record. And this is why you're doing the interview because you're honest. God damn. We did that here actually. Really? All in here, yeah.

Thank you for introducing me to her. Yeba. She's phenomenal. And she bodied you on that record. Thank you. But you know that. Like that's, right? But I think, as I said to you when the song was playing, you should only be working with

people that you think are better than you, so it helps you grow as a person. Like when I did the song with Beyonce, she definitely bodied me on that. Did the song with Bocelli, like these people are the peak of their game. Yeah, yeah. Perfect is a little debatable. That was a good back and forth.

Oh, well thank you. I mean, this is a good back and forth too, but you know. Yeah, but I feel like, you know, I don't wanna do, I don't wanna have a feature I don't want to have a feature that isn't amazing. Like she hit a note on there and I'm like I don't even know what that was. Yeah.

Sounded like you could have been like some effects on it or something like that. Yeah but like if that had you know someone that it didn't compliment it, I don't know I feel like if you have a song that you think is good and you put someone that you think is amazing it instantly makes the song incredible. So yeah, I'd taken her on tour in 2017, so we were in touch anyway. And she came to see my Wembley show recently and we reconnected there. We've been on email and she sent me demos of her songs that I've listened to and stuff like that. So we've always had a really cool relationship.

I got on the phone with her one day and I was like I have this song, send it to her. She sent back her verse and then I was like we have to get in and make sure that the chorus lifts and we can sing it together and it sounds like we've actually been in the same room and made it. A song like that you can't really make remotely, you have to be in the same room. Sometimes I play people artists and some people will be like oh my god they're the best thing in the world and some people are like I just don't get it but there's no one that doesn't get her. It's so easy to get. It's just like, wow, she's incredibly talented. Yeah, I mean, people like her just let me know that it's just a matter of timing.

Because you know, when you put me on to her and I posted Evergreen on Instagram, there was people in my comments like, oh, you're late. Oh, I listen to that song all the time. She's dope. But there's late and there's late. There's people that would have been on Travis Scott from the very, very, very beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that would be like, oh, you're late if you got into him at Goosebumps or whatever.

So I think, you know, you can't be there from the beginning. Was she willing to be as open as you were? Or did you have to kind of, like, push her? Yeah, well, I said it on the phone. I said, like, for me, I was writing stuff that was embarrassing to me, my deepest secrets. And I said, if you're going to write a verse, just make sure that each line is uncomfortable for you to write.

You'll be like, oh, gosh, should I be telling people this? That's the kind of vibe I wanted to have. Is it healthy to think that the best of you is another person, though? Maybe not, but I'm sure you think some of the best parts of you are your wife. A hundred percent. Yeah, and I think it might not be healthy, but I feel like it's a human flaw. To be like, I constantly wake up every day with Cherry and I'm just like, why the fuck are you with me? You could literally be with whoever you wanted and you've chosen me.

I'm saying all of the things that I think are wrong with me, but you still want to be with me. And I just find that amazing. But doesn't that keep you in a constant state of anxiety, like constantly questioning whether or not... No, because she doesn't add fuel to the flame. Got you. I think if she was like, well, yeah, then you'd get anxiety.

But I think it's quite a sweet thing to, I think it's quite sweet to always think that the person you're with is out of your league. Imagine if you were like, with your wife, like, yeah, you're with me because I'm fucking amazing. Like, it's quite a sweet thing. It keeps you on your toes. Yeah. And you don't ever take it for granted. Yeah. And you don't ever take it for granted. Yeah. Mate, and that would be the worst thing, to just be, yeah, to take it for granted.

I tour a lot. I spend a lot of time on the road. And I think I have to go on the road and have this belief that, you know, where this is meant to be. What's next? Eminem and 50 Cent, remember the name. When do you know a record is completely done? I don't. If it's up to me I keep tweaking it. It's weird, the musical side of it, if it sounds good it's done.

For me, even if the guitar is slightly out of tune or the vocals are a bit rough, if it sounds good it's done. But when it comes to mixing, you have to listen to it on so many different speakers. So we've got like two different speakers here and then I'll usually do a mix on like just regular headphones. I want it to be good on so many different things. Like it could sound amazing in here and you take it in the car and it's all kind of so yeah, that's when you don't know it's done.

But usually the deadline comes and then someone takes it and it comes up. I feel like that record is like a childhood dream of yours, like the pub is, the pub in New York. I had two songs I always wanted to do with Eminem. I was like, if I ever get to work with Eminem, there's two songs I want to do. And it's one's like an introspective storytelling one, and one is something that kind of is more of a nod towards some of the cheekier songs on the Marshall Mathers LP or like the Eminem show. And I was like when I work with him, because in my mind I was like it's always gonna happen I've just gotta wait. I'll do those two songs and one led to the other so I did the River song with him for the

revival record and then through that got to know him and then I was able to sit down with him in Detroit and approach him with this song and it didn't feel weird and now And now I feel like I've ticked my two boxes Feels yeah feels good in your verse you talk about people in being your private life Did you started to go a little Eminem on the blogs on that verse just a little bit? It was actually before me and cherry got married and I knew that we'd be married by the point that the song came out So I said watch how the lyrics might get twisted My wife wears red but looks better without the lipstick. And I was like, someone's gonna hear that and be like, they're married and I didn't know

how that would be construed but obviously it's already come out. The other thing I think is funny is I say I mentioned Ipswich in it, which is a town near here which is like Eminem would never ever know where Ipswich is so to be able to have a song with Eminem and 50 Cent and the first line is... Just to be able to have that, just like whenever I go to Ipswich now, there'll just be someone who'll be like, thanks man. Oh, so that's how it is in America. If you shout out a certain community or a certain hood, they'll be like, yo, good looking. So it's the same thing over here too.

Yeah, and I mean, you know, there's only a few musicians that have ever come out of Suffolk as a county, as a whole county, let alone, shout it out, Ipswich. So I feel like it's good. So you'll get free fish and chips in Ipswich for the rest of your life? Oh, I'd never get that. They'd be like, you can afford it, mate. I made that song in Sweden with Max Martin, who's a really big songwriter producer and I was writing my verse and then cheekily at the end of it I just said right Max I

want to like I want to wish this into existence like it's um let me listen to my verse again. The power of the word. Yeah. Wanted to make it big I wished it to be distance. Yeah so at the end of the verse I said I want way more than I've already got. Give me a song with Eminem and 50 Cent. And I said to Max, I was like, I'm going to London tomorrow to go on guest with Eminem. So I'll ask him about the tune then and see if he can get 50 Cent on it. And I walked in Eminem's dressing room and it's him and 50 Cent in there.

And I was like, this has to be, has to be meant to be. I think they were quite they were quite weird about it because I was like do you believe in fate and uh they probably thought she was just trying to make conversation yeah you know I did walk in and I was like look I'm I'm a great believer of things things are meant to be the way they're meant to be because that like you can't you can't get to my stage in my career and think that it's all down to some, like, just hard work or just this. Like, there's definitely things that I was in the right place at the right time and this

and that. So it was actually quite a cool meeting because I played him the song and I thought we'd record it then. But he was just like, leave it with me because he writes and writes and writes and writes and goes over. So we just sat and chatted. It was the day after Kamikaze had come out and no one knew it was coming out and then suddenly it came out and I was like fuck I'm seeing

him tomorrow. I get to kind of like talk to him about it. Y'all got a lot of similarities in a way though. I really relate to him and we have such different backgrounds but I really relate to him and even more so now. Like as a kid I related to him just because I felt like a bit of an outcast. But even now, like the way that we've both stuck in our hometowns

and we both live here, we've both got to a level where you're so famous you cannot go outside and so you have to kind of live in your little compound and having a conversation with him about it

and how he tours now and it's like i'm kind of looking at the way he does things being like that's how i should do it when i'm like because he's got kids and stuff and he's a very very good father and he's there the whole time and my greatest fear is not raising my kids because i'm constantly on tour so what he does is he you know he makes an album and then he goes out and does like a month of touring and then he comes back home and then that's that that's it and i can talk to him on a level and he can understand where I'm coming from and I can understand where he's coming from.

Yeah, that's how I meant it on the same way you just described it. The fact that both of y'all still are in your hometowns and it's like a level of self-isolation. You know what I mean? Cherry's trying to get me away from it. She's scared that the pub and the cinema and like just, I've made it that my friends can just come here now rather than me going out. So Cheri's always trying to get me to go out more and more. But it just gets-

Well just take her out one time and let her get mobbed and then she'll be like, you know what- No, she's seen it. She's seen it and she obviously doesn't like it but she's like it's not healthy to do this. So how do you stay in tune with what's going on? Because your music does not sound like you're isolated. I listen to your show. Every single day.

Stuff like that. I read the news every single day. I keep up to date. I don't know, I lost the ability to be able to go out to a supermarket and buy a loaf of bread about, not even that long ago, like three years ago. And it's just different now. There's certain places I can go. That's why I live here.

People around here treat me pretty normally. But London, because London's such a melting pot of so many different people, you can never preempt what people are going to be like. It was definitely very, very fun to work with Eminem again. If you could have told 12-year-old me I would rap on a song with Eminem when I was older, so many people say that I can't rap, but I'm allowed on a song with Eminem and 50 Cent rapping, so why does it matter? 12 year old you is now 28 year old you, so they're still around all those years later. Yeah.

I've played as people of my generation, who, Shady Records was just us when we were 14. We were just obsessed with it. So playing that to my best friends now, they're all excited about it, but there'll be my best friends now are all excited about it, but there'll be people from your generation that are excited about it. And there are people from a completely different generation who maybe haven't, they're not really that aware of it, but maybe they've heard Shape of You

and like Shape of You that will listen to this project. It has a different impact on somebody that's my age though, because I'm thinking, damn, 50 and M are such an underrated combination. Cause you start thinking about like patiently waiting. You know what I mean? All those songs that they've done together. And you're like, okay, I like hearing that.

That was why I really, really wanted to get the two of them. I could have just done that with M. But it was like, I mean, the hook that I wrote is so 50 Cent. It's like, no time to call it a day. It just had to be that. The only thing that song is missing is Dr. Dre drums. I know. I just think it's weird to go with someone with a complete track and just be like, please just put your name to it. I think if Dr. Dre does end up watching this, which

who knows if he will, but he is someone I would love to work with and I wouldn't feel comfortable being like, here's a song, put your name to it. I'd want to go in and create a song. Let's hear that Bieber record. I love this tune. What made you want to reach out to Bieber right now? Bieber just got married. I just got married. That song is about being at an industry event with the woman you love, or even the person you love,

and kind of being like, fuck this, let's just have fun ourselves. And I was like, it was actually Cherry's idea, because she was like, why don't you get Bieber? He'd be perfect for this. It just fits it. And you know, I have quite a good relationship with him. I met him at Z100 thing. He came up and said, oh, I'm a big fan fan and I was like, wow, have you heard my music? So we kept in touch, I wrote some songs for him and with him for his projects.

You know, we've just hung out a bunch of times. I wanna work with Bieber, he's got one of these voices that just works on anything. And he's got a personality when he sings. Were you ever a social person? Cause it seems like you're social, but you only get anti-social at industry functions.

Well, I used to be super social at industry functions. My hobby was to go out to things and meet people that I admired and then go out and drink with them

and end up at a bar. That was like my favorite thing to do. So, you know, I kind of like ended up meeting all my musical heroes and going out to bars

with them and having fun with them and then it's just now when I go to these events, I just have social anxiety. I just can't, I hate large groups of people, which is ironic because I play shows for a living. But I just don't, I feel claustrophobic and I don't like being around too many people. You think people, it's because you are Ed Sheeran and people demand too much of you? Yeah, but it isn't even that.

I don't even mind talking to people. I have no problem with having a conversation with people. It's just when people film me and shit and just kind of stare at me, it makes me feel weird because it makes me feel like I'm not human. You coming up and having a conversation with me makes me feel human, even if we've never met, even if you just come up. The thing that instantly shuts me off is having a moment like that with someone that's so human and so nice and at the end being like, oh but can I have a picture?

And it's like, what? It kind of then puts you back down to earth and then you're just that. You're literally just 15 likes on Instagram and that's all you are. It makes you wonder if the conversation y'all were having was even genuine. Yeah, like sometimes I have these conversations with people in this, where was it? I was at a Marilyn Manson show and this guy just came up to me and he literally just shook my hand and went, I like your music, man. And I was like, wow, that was such a short thing and such a simple thing, but that meant

so much. Yeah, so I think I get kind of anxiety because if I was eating in a restaurant now, I would prefer to have a private room because if I'm eating in the room with everyone, I get people filming me eat my food while I'm with my wife. It's just, I just find it a bit, you feel like a zoo animal. And I don't mean to be complaining, because I have a very, very cool job and life. But if I can avoid it, I will. Yeah, I wouldn't want nobody to record you eating fish and chips either. Because you may feel like a zoo animal, but you eat like one as well.

Thank you very much, sir. I just want you to know that. If you could have the success without the fame, would you take that? I think my success has happened because I'm so recognizable. You know, it's like I make good, well, I think I make good music, but I make music that people like. But you can remember who I am. And it's my own fucking fault as well.

Look at all these tattoos I've got. And then I start wearing glasses again and then that's just another thing to make me more recognizable. So I definitely don't help myself in that. What's the next song, my brother? The next song is called Antisocial and it's the Travis Scott one.

It sounds cleaner. Don't touch me. What's that record about? It sounds self-explanatory but... Probably what we were talking about earlier, having the anxiety of being in a club. How often do you get in the mood where you don't want to be bothered? Every day. Every day.

That's why I live here. Every single day. That's why I live here, yeah. But when you go out, you know that's a necessary... No, I just have to be in the frame of mind. When I go to an award show, I'm like, right, today it's just happening. I'm not going to get anxiety because this is just has to happen today. I don't know if it just creeps up on you and then it's just there.

Is the hat low a signal to people that you don't want to be bothered? Are you letting them know like, look, you see me out with my hat low? Well, that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. That's good. That's a good signal then. That's like, you should. Yeah. But I don't really, I don't really go out to clubs anymore. I used to when, you know, Cherry used to live in New York, so I used to live there in her apartment and we used to go out like most nights. But it was different then as well.

Shape of You brought me to a different level of fame. Like, I thought I was like at my peak and then suddenly it was like a completely different world. It's the world of your Beyonce's and your Jay-Z's and your Adele's and it's just the suddenly there's so much interest you know. How hard is it to protect your energy? I'm talking about you, your mental well-being, your mental space.

Well I find I've been working on it for the past eight years and whether it be getting rid of a phone and only answering emails like twice a day or whether it's like cutting down my friendship group to the bare bare bare minimum just so i trust everyone or whether it's living in the countryside in the middle of nowhere and kind of closed off a bit from reality i think all of these little things are in place to protect this i think my my my mind and um it's all working i think it's all working, I think. It's all working. I think if I lived in central, central London,

in Leicester Square or Mayfair or something like that, and then hanging out with people that I'm not really sure whether they're friends with me for who I am or who I am, you know? You'll never know what that feels like again, especially with the new people that come into your life. You'll never know if they like you or they like the artist. Yeah, but I don't ever really let people, I let people in from a let's hang out place. These boys have come to film now and we hung out in the pub yesterday. There's letting

in and there's letting in. When you had that conversation with Travis about that record, did he understand where you was coming from? Yeah, because I think he has it and we were talking about it. I think he's very lucky with the girl that he's with. He says that they have a similar thing where they just have their little circle. But he's with the biggest family in the world, almost. Yeah, but I think they're all different, aren't they? They all want different things.

Yeah, I don't really know. I don't really know. But he struck me as someone that I had a lot in common with, basically. He doesn't seem to me to be the type of person that's chasing fame. I think it's all to better himself as an artist. What's the next record? The next record is Beautiful People. Beautiful People featuring Khalid.

Khalid. Why Khalid for this particular record? You don't think he's a beautiful person? No, he didn't know. I mean, a couple of reasons. His voice is so crisp and warm and soulful, but in a very weird way. He's got runs that aren't soul runs. He's got runs that are more folk music. He's a soul singer who sings like a folk artist. He sings in a very unique way. But that song for me is warmth. It just feels cozy. And that sounds weird to say his voice is cozy as well. But that was my initial thing.

He's definitely the same as me. He doesn't really strike me as someone who's glitz and glam. How unhappy were you living in LA miserable I hated it I hated it yeah I'm now like I like going to LA because I go in for like three days and I see people I love and then I'm gone but it's the same everywhere like I was miserable when I lived in New York as well because it's just I just have to be home it's like there's a book there's a book that I read called his dark materials and it's about parallel worlds and you basically this guy that has a knife that can cut into other worlds and his dad discovered the worlds before him and his dad ended up dying

because he was away from his world for so long and it just drained him being in this other world and for me it's that like being in not just England but being in Suffolk just keeps my, even on tour I'll like come back here and I'll feel revitalized and just, I'm not American. I don't belong in America. Just like you living here, you'd probably get sad at some point and be like I need to go back to Carolina or I need to go back to Jersey. I'd get fat as hell living here. Between all the beer and the fish and chips, I'm being fat as fuck.

Was there ever a moment where you felt like you were about to conform and become one of the beautiful people? I definitely did though. I definitely did for like six months. That was it. I was in. I was hanging out with fucking people that were on Disney shows once upon a time and we were like hanging out in backyards.

Every day I'd meet someone new and it'd be like, oh this is so and so who was on this movie and then so and so who did this song and just, I don't know, you kind of get sucked up in that world and there's always a different event to go to. You go to One Oak or you go to fucking, what is it, Bootsy Bellows and there's always something on. And it's just that every single day, every single day and it just, I just felt myself getting a bit drained from it. Why is it hard for people to be themselves in the industry?

And does the industry allow that? Yes it does, yeah. But you have to have success being yourself. So it's quite easy for me to be myself because I've been every step of the way, every time I've been myself I've had success in it. But I think it's hard when you've had a lot of success musically, maybe doing something that you didn't believe in 100%. You know, sometimes the success that you find isn't actually you being yourself but also i think it's the fake it till you make it attitude of if you let people

think you're successful then you will eventually become successful but you have to really put that on yeah i think i just think being yourself is so powerful and i feel like a beautiful person without sounding weird about it but because of it i have now a confidence in myself because because of being myself all now confidence in myself because of being myself all of these great things have happened. So now I can walk into an award show dressed however I want and be super confident about it because it's like I've done what I set out to achieve without compromising. Imagine when you were standing next to Beyonce on stage performing perfect.

Great moment in Johannesburg. If you're paying attention to what you should actually be paying attention to which is is just the talent, you're like, damn, that was a great duet. But then you go look online and everybody's clowning you because of how you looked standing next to her, what you were wearing. Well, I know, but I think the main argument was just men and women's standards being held. The main thing was just like, look at this. He's allowed to wear that and she's allowed to wear that. When really what they should have been saying is like,

they've both made a choice to do this. Like Beyonce can wear whatever the hell she wants and i can wear whatever the hell i want and that is because we've worked to be where we are to be able to do that i quite i quite liked that i found that quite quite funny because it was it was ridiculous you look at it and you're like yeah actually that's pretty weird and like the skate company that i was wearing the t-shirt off were like really excited about it because it was on every single blog in the world and they were having people buy the t-shirt they wanted to send one to Beyonce but I was like I don't know if she'd um I always say this to kids that get I meet a lot of kids and their dads are like they're going through a tough time at school and I'm like although it's like super tough now that's the best thing that can happen for you if

you fit in you're just boring. You know, you're just one of many people. If you're like, there was this one kid the other day and she was like proper out there, proper quirky. And I was like, you're going to be such an interesting adult and you're going to do such an interesting job because you're allowed to be artistic and don't let anyone fucking dim your light.

Like, you should always shine as bright as that. But it's about instilling confidence in people. And I think me having success, I can say to her, look, I was really weird and I've managed to have success, so if you just carry on doing you, you're going to have the same thing. Yeah, it's like why fit in when you're born to stand out? That's why I feel like all of us have our very own unique DNA that can't be duplicated at all. There's no one in the world that can do what you do. Absolutely.

But there is someone in the world that's going to try and they're going to fail because they should be doing what they do best. Absolutely. Yeah. So the next song is I Don't Want Your Money with Her. Fuck your money, your lady wants your time. Precisely, yeah. And I find myself always thinking, like, why am I out on the road as much as I am?

And I always come back to the conclusion it's because I love it. But, you know, something has to give because, you know, I'm starting a life with Cherry and I'm not 20 anymore. I can't go on the road for three years and not come home. Do you have guilt

because you're not around no because I think I think that's I think that's unhealthy because I'm only not around because I'm living my dream

trying to achieve and I think it's unhealthy to feel guilty about wanting success but I definitely I feel like I'm missing out I don't

I think there's not so much guilt in that but I definitely feel like I'm missing out on a lot of things. But it wasn't just when I was with Cherry. It was like I missed every single one of my friends' birthday parties or events or New Year's or stuff like that. So I feel like... Parents getting older.

Yeah, well, actually, I mean, saying that, like my success has allowed them to slow down and, you know, my dad doesn't work anymore and he can come out and tour. them to slow down and you know my dad doesn't work anymore and he can come out and talk. I actually have more quality time with my dad now because it's allowed that to happen. At what point did you realize it wasn't about money, it was about your time? At what point did you realize that? Sounds a bit ridiculous but when you discover something like a private jet and

you're like I can buy another day with Cherry, I can wait until tomorrow and fly home at 5 p.m. or I can book a jet now and I can fly home and I can gain an entire day. When I was like, money isn't the object, but time is. I'd rather spend more time with you than save more money, basically. That's interesting, though, because you need the money to be able to create more time with you than save more money basically. That's interesting though because you need the money to be able to create more time. Those opportunities and that's a very sort of first world problem to have. I will always turn down every single offer for New Year's Eve gigs just because I'd rather spend it with my family and friends.

And it happened very early on in my career because I never wanted for much and I achieved a level of success financially very early on that I was happy with. So ever since then I can, I now can't be bought because I don't need it. But that isn't because I'm now doing a stadium tour, that was like back then doing theatres. I was like well I don't, if I can earn by playing the songs I want to play why would I need to be able to be bought basically. And you said you go on the road because you love going on the road. Yeah, I really love it.

So is there ever a time where you have to ask yourself what do you love more? Do I love going on the road or do I love my wife? No, because again, she understands and she comes out on the road. I mean, she's got an office job so she doesn't come out as much as she would like to. When you're so busy and you're always doing a whole bunch of everything, sometimes it's good to just sit down and do nothing, to watch that movie for the hundredth time. Like, watch Star Wars again.

I feel like doing nothing makes me want to work hard again. So that's why I feel like I need to do nothing because it reminds me that I do love working. It's only going to get more complicated once you have kids. Yeah, but I think kids are different because instantly, whenever I've spoken to parents, it's like your life ceases to exist for you anymore. Your life is for your kids. So I don't think I'd have any problem sacrificing things that I enjoy for them.

If it was really like, you can't tour for the next 10 years, I'd be like, well that's what I signed up for. I've had kids. True. You know, there's lots of things that people have to stop when they have kids why'd you pick her for that particular record because I really liked her album and became a fan from her from there uh when I found out she was a fan of me I then asked her to be on on this because you can't ever assume that people just want to do records with you what's the next one? What we got, what we got? Thousand Nights with Meek Mill and A Boogie.

Mm. I've been on for a thousand nights. What does being on for a thousand nights mean? Touring. You know, I'd been on tour for, I mean, it's not technically a thousand nights, but almost like seven, eight, 800 nights on tour. So it was basically New York to London,

it's a different city every day. Does it all become a blur? Does it become redundant when you're out there like that? Definitely it is. I don't really remember 2014, 2015. Yeah, it does all become a blur. But then I now bring my best friends on tour, so I've got four best friends out with me and we enjoy it all together now.

So it's not really a blur because we remember going to nice dinners and then we go out to nice things and then go back to my hotel room and have a bottle of wine. Why'd you grab Meek and A Boogie for that record? Because I don't think they can relate yet to that level of touring. Well, for me, originally I had a different beat. I had a different beat originally and when I made the beat, and Meek actually said it when I played it to him, he was like, you know my tempo. For me, it just sounded like a Meek song. It just sounded like a Meek actually said it when I played it to him. He was like, you know my tempo. And for me, it just sounded like a Meek song.

It just sounded like a Meek song. I always try and go two verses. I always try and go for two, like 24 bars. And we'd done 16 bars and it just seemed too short. And I just bought a hoodie season and I thought I'd reach out to him. What's the next record? The next record is Put It All On Me with Ella Mai. You like this one?

I like that tune. Yo, you front when you say it's hard to make records about love, bro. That's another love record right there. I've made so many records though for this project. So many. Obviously now you're hearing the end product and you're like, oh, it must be easy to write love songs. But I write so many songs and then I just pick the best ones.

So then they end up being the good ones, the good love songs. I like the up-tempo love records though. Everything don't have to be thinking out loud. I'm Meffin Man and Mary J. Blige, All I Need remix. That's what me and my wife danced to at our wedding. You know what I'm saying? So it's good to have those up-tempo love records. Why'd you choose Ella Mai for that one?

Well, I, like the rest of the world, heard Boo'd Up, and then I found out she's from Mitcham in South London, which blew my mind because I just didn't know she... because it's so rare, one, for English people to have success in America, but two, for English people to have success in America before England. She was big there before here, so I was intrigued by her anyway. But someone I knew had a contact for her. So when we were making that song, I remember we were saying, what girl do we know that we could go on this?

And me and Fred, who made the tune, were both like, we should get Ella May. And I was like, I know someone that knows her. So we had that wrapped up, I think, within two days. Because usually you do the song and then you have to get in Touch with the artist and then it's finding a day to do a studio We sent that off to Ella May the day that we wrote it and then I think she'd recorded her bits Two days later. I didn't even know she was from the UK till I heard her album Yeah, because in between she's talking and you hear the accent. Yeah, so I was like, oh she's from the UK

I didn't even realize it. Yeah, she and she's sick man and she's super sweet, but I just didn't expect her to be English. She's got the same kind of thing that I was saying about Khalid. There's a way that she sings and the riffs that she does. She'll go hard and soft and hard and soft in her vocal tones. It's kind of operatic. I don't know if she's classically trained or not, but it's a very different way of singing. When you do a collab with somebody like Ella May, do you feel the need to, even in the future, constantly say, hey, I wrote this for you, just to keep the London thing up

there? I mean, as I said yesterday, it depends on timings and stuff, but if anyone gave me their time to work on this, whether it just be any small favour in the future, I'm always going to be there to do something. After this record, I'm going to go away for a bit, so I don't think we're going to be releasing anything like that, but yeah, I just really appreciate that people are giving me their time, you know? So this is Feels with Young Thug and J Hus.

You're not doing these records because of who's hot. You're doing these records because you actually like these people. So what did you like about Young Thug? I mean I first heard him when he did the Rich Gang, did a lot of shit just to live this here lifestyle. And I didn't really get it. And then it was more, I think it was that Jeffrey project that really made me understand it. He's got a tone that is, sometimes you don't understand what he's saying, but it kind of, the way that he does it is just musical.

So I was always very intrigued to work with him. Huss is someone I've always wanted to work with. There's not really anyone like him in the UK industry, so in his own lane. The worst thing I find is when you have blatantly labeled things where they leave a 16 at the end. Ah, it's the worst. And I never wanted to do that with Huss. I feel like if you're going to do a song with Huss, it needs to all fit in.

I got his number and then I FaceTimed him. But usually every single person I've worked with, I've never not had some sort of relationship with them. So, I hope I get to meet Thug soon. I would think that's a difficult record to write. Because that's about heartbreak. You're in love. That was written from imagining what it would... Now it's all scenarios rather

than things that have actually happened in terms of writing breakup songs. Ed, I need you to dismiss those negative thoughts out your mind. Okay? I'm the type of person, whatever I want to happen, I constantly think about. The things I don't want to happen, I don't think about at all. Or Sam. I know, but my job is writing songs, so sometimes you just have to write songs. You know, like, people who write murder mystery books don't want to get murdered in their sleep. They just, they write books about murder.

So that's not necessarily about you in real life? No, no, no, no. That's like, if it were to happen, that would be my reaction. And it's for whoever needs it, because somebody out there is probably going through that. There's so many people that make songs that aren't necessarily reflecting the situation that they're in at that time. Oh, trust me, I know. But we've all felt that.

Yeah, I listen to a lot of hip hop, okay? I know, right? There's a lot of people saying some things that they are not really living. Yes, I get it. Why is Skrillex holding up the record? Skrillex, I mean, I've worked with him before. Actually, I have a great fucking story about Skrillex. He came to Chicago to work on track.

Afterwards, he was like, let's go out to a bar. So just me and him and my touring crew went out to this bar. And he was like, fuck fuck man, this bar sucks. Like, the music, like the music's just not, it was like they were, I don't know what was happening and he was just like, I've got my laptop in my bag, should I just do a set? They were like, okay. And so Skrillex got up in this like bar in the middle of fucking nowhere in Chicago and just did a three hour set for anyone in the bar.

And they just locked the doors and just kept everyone in. It was amazing. I feel it. Can you feel it tonight? I feel the fire between you and I. How did you know Dave was going to be good for this record? Because everything I've heard from Dave that you let me hear, because you put me on today, was like deep.

Well, I gave him a deep song. I gave him the choice of two. Because I really, really wanted to get him on the project project so I did two songs and he chose that one. But I think it's good to have him on something a little bit different because he does a lot of deep stuff for his stuff. Y'all collaborate on more than just music though right? Yeah we did a Love Music Hate Racism interview. I like that whole concept of love music hate racism.

You know we're both from two totally different parts of England and from totally different backgrounds and coming together and just talking. It's good to show how it can be completely normal. I met him at, there's an award show over here called the Ivor Novellos and they have like three main awards. There's best song, most played song and then songwriter of the year and that's and and and that's it and he I won songwriter of the year and he won best song um and they're like really difficult so there's only like three of them a year they're really

difficult to win so I met I met him there and we kind of swapped emails we've just been back and forth I kind of like talking to I say up-and-coming people but I love I love the kind of new wave coming through. And it was one of those things like I'm putting the project together, it would just feel like a bit of a shame not to have him on it. So I'm glad we could make it work. The other artist is a guy from Argentina that I've recently become a fan of called Paulo Longa. We got him on. Really like him.

Listen man, number six. Hey, thank you for having me bro. Nice one. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this.

It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh, my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zaka Stan.

That's Escape from Z-A-Q-A-Stan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast,

Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As a kid, I really do remember having these dreams and visions, but you just don't know what is going to come for you. Alicia shares her wisdom on growth, gratitude, and the power of love. I forgive myself. It's okay. Have grace with yourself.

You're trying your best and you're going to figure out the rhythm of this thing. Alicia Keys, like you've never heard her before. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on.

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