The Breakfast Club - Elaine Welteroth On 'The Conversations Project', Maternal Mortality Crisis + More

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

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Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building this morning. Yes, indeed. We have Miss Elaine Walteroth.

Welcome. Hi, guys. How you feeling this morning? I'm good. How are you? Good, good, good. Less black and highly favored. I love it.

I'm just really taking in this whole chair, the throne that you're sitting, that the two of you are sitting on. I'm just mad I didn't get a throne. Where's my throne at? No, we got it. I'm just really taking in this whole chair, the throne that you're sitting, that the two of you are sitting on. I'm just mad I didn't get a throne. Where's my throne at? No, we got it. We're thinking of something for the guests in 2024 to make them, because we're all regal, right?

But this is really just for television. Right. Because we're on BET and for the internet and stuff like that. Okay. And then when we add the new third person, they'll have a throne, so we're going to have a whole Watch the Throne campaign.

Okay, I love it. But we have to figure it out because the thrones will be too high to block the cameras, which we didn't think about beforehand, so it's going to be a cluster F. Right, right, right. But we're going to figure it out. You hear the cameraman talk about mm-mm. You hear the camera guy say he knows.

So now you're here for a conversation project? Yeah, the Conversations Project. Yep. Now what is the Conversations Project? So the Conversations Project, which is on Hulu, is basically, so it's inspired by the Harlem Renaissance Salon. It's like, you know, think back to the era when, you know, black intellectuals, academics, entertainers would rub shoulders and break bread and share ideas

in a safe space. And we wanted to recreate that on television and it's it's really incredible it's it's bringing together some of the greatest minds in our culture um from every corner of the world so you have you have artists you have entertainers you have we had a black astronaut um all coming together to really exchange ideas and you know you don't have anything like this on television, which is kind of crazy when you really think about it. It's like, how has it taken this long for a show like this to come about? But I'm so glad that it did. And we just talk about everything under the sun that affects our community.

And we talk about it through a black lens. And we debate. We laugh. We, you know And we debate. We laugh. We agree. We challenge each other. And it's really intergenerational. It's just a really positive, nuanced place to have conversations that matter in our culture. I feel like it's very hard.

I'm really proud of it. I'm sorry. I feel like it's very hard for us to have conversations nowadays. I feel like we're all talking at each other instead of to and with each other. defensively, it's really important, I think, especially in these times that are so divided, it's so divisive, to really give people an example of how you can articulate your point of view and also appreciate and listen to somebody else's point of view and maybe even evolve. Maybe your perspective might evolve in the process. So I think a show like this is so important. And for me, I always, whether I'm writing books or

on television, I want to create what I think the world needs more of. And I think the world needs more of hard conversations, examples of hard conversations that are being tackled in a really constructive way. I love that because I feel like, you know, over the last several years, we've seen all of these, you know, topics that we never discussed come to the forefront, but we're still not having nuanced conversations about them. We're not peeling back layers.

We're just telling you, you're trash if you believe this. You're trash if you don't think like this. But it's just like, yo, where's the exchange of ideas? So those people that you may not like the way they think about a certain thing, they might evolve on the subject if you just have a conversation about it. Exactly.

And you might evolve. I think that's the thing is to come to the table with an open mind and be willing to listen. I learned. My mind was open. You know, I came with an open mind and open heart. I think everybody did. And you know what helped?

I forgot to mention this. I can't believe I forgot to mention this. It's a dinner party. So you have like Michelin star, you know, a Michelin star chef who is giving us incredible food and black owned wines. And we are just like,

so I feel like everybody came in like maybe a little nervous, like what's about to happen at the table? Are they gonna, are there gonna be, there gonna be some gotcha questions? And then everyone just realized this is actually a safe space.

Sip some wine, you know, you relax, your nerves, you know, settle a little. And we really, we came to the table, many of us strangers, and we walked away feeling like we had extended community. We, like a family, honestly. So it was beautiful. And I honestly hope that it inspires people to have some of these conversations

at their own dinner table, with their own friends, at their work, at their church. Like whatever the community is that you are a part of, this is how you can have these conversations. And also invite people over to your house. Again, like we've all been in isolation for so long and we thrive in community, you know, but we, it takes somebody to be intentional about curating the right group, about sending that invitation, bringing people to

creating a safe space and really guiding the conversation. So I really hope that like, this is like the return of the dinner party. Who are some of the people that are, I know every episode is. You know, who are some of the people that are I know every episode is a different cast. Who are some of the people that are at the table? Yeah, we had a whole wide range of people, like I said, from black astronauts to entertainers to authors, athletes. So we had a couple of people we had that I really love. Phoebe Robinson. She's hilarious. Shine, Jim Jones, Allie Love, Roy Wood Jr. Notori Naughton. Notori Naughton, she was amazing.

Brittany Hall, Mark Spears. Yes, Lena Bloom. And so the hosts were, there's three hosts. One is the chef, David Lawrence. He has a restaurant in the Bay Area, but he's originally from the UK. And he's a little bit older. I call him uncle. And then we have Mark Spears, who is at ESPN and Anscape.

He's a Hall of Fame sports writer. And they conceived of this show. They pitched it. They got it sold, which is a miracle to me in this landscape. Absolutely. Especially for a black show, bringing together black folks to have black conversations that are, you know, smart, intellectual and not trash. Like we're not sitting there trying to trash each other, which is usually what you see

get sold. And then they brought me on. They wanted to have a woman's perspective at the table, someone who could help bridge the generations. And I immediately, I mean, once I understood the concept of the show, the spirit of the show, the intention of the show, I was like, sign me up. This is a dinner party I feel like anybody would want to be invited to. So it was an honor to be a part of it.

How did you pick the people you wanted to have a conversation with? Because, you know, when you talk about curating the right people, because even when you say, let's bring back the dinner party, I'm just not letting nobody in my house. Your energy got to be right. Your energy got to be right. Your energy got to be right. That's the part. I think we all just kind of agreed.

We all brought our lists. And we all kind of thought, we want to make sure every single table is really intergenerational. So that was a really important piece. We wanted to make sure that it was co-ed. So there was a nice mix of, you know, men and women.

And that everyone was represented. So trans folks, queer folks, I think the beauty of this show is that it showcases the spectrum of blackness. We talk about what it means to be black and queer, black and trans, to what it's like to talk about the biracial experience and everything in between. We got, you know, old elders in the room. We got the young folks in the room. We got the millennials. And what you see is that it just reminds you that blackness is not a monolith. We come from all different places all over the world with different perspectives. And it really, it shapes our worldview. but when we break bread with each other when

we break down these conversations together we realize how much more we have in common than than what divides us yeah what about the uh titles of the show like like those are the conversation starters within themselves like what it's called we him is one episode called we him yeah i didn't name i didn't name them oh got you got you i wish i could tell you that was episode five yeah we have did you guys have you. I wish I could tell you. That was episode five, We Him. We Him. Have you guys seen any of them? If you have not seen them, it's a six-episode series.

It's totally bingeable. Once you watch one episode, you will naturally want to just keep going. And I've gotten such great feedback from everyone that they're excited to see black folks coming together to have these rich conversations, these intergenerational conversations, especially in a time like this. Like, honestly, guys, it's dark times out there. Absolutely. And we need something that is feel good, that makes us think, that opens our mind. And I think this show is exactly that. And I hope we get to do it again and again.

And I hope we can bring y'all to the table. We'd love to. Next season. What's one conversation that stood out the most to you that you remember that's something that you was like, wow, this is going to spark a lot of conversation and interest

when this episode's released or when people see this episode? Yeah. So two come to mind. One is a conversation with Brett Gray, who's this Gen Z actor. And he brought such incredible energy to the table.

And he got into a kind of a contentious conversation with the older gentleman gentleman at the table who we were calling them ogs so david lawrence mark spears um they were talking about sort of how this older generation, we're talking about black manhood and toxic masculinity and how the older generation of black men, with the intention of trying to protect and guide the next generation of black men, sometimes their way can crush the spirit of this, this younger generation that aren't as oppressed, that aren't as, you know, they aren't, they aren't facing, they're living in a completely different world.

Correct. And, and so how can you prepare the next generation of black men to navigate the world as black men when they're in a completely different world than you came from and so he's he's sitting there with his like fly like denim jacket on it's sparkly he's got sequins and he's like to be honest i think that when you don't want us to sparkle when we sparkle it makes you uncomfortable you put us in such a rigid box of what it means to be a black man. And frankly, I don't identify with that. I'm more than that. I wanna be more than that, but you put me in the box

and you actually make me feel more oppressed than the world. And so it was like this really intense moment where you just know, like, this is a moment that is so powerful that people need to see. And I hope that it really sparks some debate, not some debate, but I really hope it sparks kind of introspective conversations between black men of different generations. And, you know, what's beautiful is I feel like there's a lot of conversation about women,

which is important. We've made a lot of, you know, what's beautiful is I feel like there's a lot of conversation about women. There's, which is important. We've made a lot of, you know, that that's been very intentional in media to focus more on the, on the woman's gaze, but there's so much ground that we don't cover when it comes to black malehood, manhood.

And so it felt nice for a moment to just sit back and know that like, this is not for me to participate in. This is for me to listen and learn and appreciate the way these black men are navigating this conversation. And you could see the OGs, you know, they're not, they came from a different generation where young people, you know, you're supposed to stay in your place. You kind of speak when you're spoken to. You respect your authority and your elders. And you don't take a certain tone and and um Brett was coming in there just speaking his mind he was very strong with it

and you could tell the OGs were getting a little like okay now young brother okay like you don't have to uh you know like you but they they really they they I was so proud of them in that moment because they listened. And there was a breakthrough, I think, for everybody in that room. And they made it clear, like, listen, they apologize on behalf of kind of like this generation of black men for breaking their spirit and clarify that our intention is to protect you and to help you navigate this world in ways that we didn't have male guidance in this way. And so while our way might not be perfect, know that it comes from love. And I just felt like it was a really kind of beautiful, heartwarming moment. Yeah, that's something I learned in therapy, though. therapy to like you know i think that our father or at least my father i speak i can't generalize but my father i think he was raising me out of fear not necessarily love yes he he was just

afraid for me in this world as a black man and he didn't want me to make the same mistakes that he made as a man right you know but all he did was instill that same fear exactly inside of me so it kept a generational trauma going you know exactly well he also raised you from the side of the times were different you know i mean you i mean racism is still big now but it was 10 times worse back then where you know my dad tells me stories where he couldn't go to certain bathrooms he couldn't drink out of certain water fountains where he looks at white people a lot different than we do because when he was a kid, he could never trust them because it was always them versus us. That's how my dad

kind of raised me, but for us, it's totally different. My dad was afraid that I was going to turn out like him in a lot of ways. You know, he had his good side,

but he had battled substance abuse and he was in the street and stuff like that, but I think he was more afraid of how if I went down that path, he knew the white man had a plan for me,

which was prison. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's what it was. 100%. I remember my first breakthrough in therapy was realizing like, damn, my dad used to punish me for things he never taught me. He would discipline me for things

that you never even taught me. You told me to follow your lead in a lot of ways. And then when I did, I would get punished for it. And I think part of this conversation is how does a generation of black men who didn't have black fathers in the household or whose fathers were really challenged by outside factors related to racism, you know, and that debilitated their ability to be a good dad. Like, how does that generation of fatherless black men turn around and figure out how to be great dads to the next generation when they didn't have a model for that?

And so, of course, they're going to make mistakes. And I think the important thing is now to have dialogue about, you know, how the next generation can do it differently and what they can learn in the process. And even like Chef David, you know, he's he has a son, a grown child, and he kind of he had some reflective moments where he said he could have done some things differently. And I think that it might have led to some offline conversations that were really healthy and really necessary. And I really hope that that's the result of this show for viewers who are watching. You know what I mean? I hope it triggers some conversations that are maybe overdue in our community. And you know what else too? It's not even it's not even about what we, what we,

it's about what we learned but what we gotta unlearn as we get older. Because you know, I'll be the first to admit we were a whole generation that was raised wrong. You know what I mean? A hundred percent.

You were raised wrong in a lot of ways, you know? So it's like, yeah, it's about what you have to unlearn as you get older too.

Yeah, and you know, I'm a new mom. I just had a baby 17 months ago. Congratulations. Thank you get older, too. Yeah. And, you know, I'm a new mom. I just had a baby 17 months ago. Thank you. So I felt like I was there listening more than I talk on topics around parenthood. You know, Roxanne Shante came on and, you know, she was one of the sort of our elders.

We respect her. And she was talking about, you know, parenting as a black mom, especially a single black mom, how parenting a young black man is different from parenting a young woman. And I really leaned in because I was like, because I'm a boy mom. And she talked about how there is this tendency in our culture for black moms to kind of overly coddle black men, which is, again, coming from a spirit of love and protection, because they know how harsh this world is on black men. But in the end, sometimes the outcome is that these men are not, they're not getting the tools that they need to be men in the world. And they're being coddled to the point of, you know, they're not standing on their own two feet. And so you so there was this

conversation about this generation, this generation of black men who were raised by mothers that were coddling them a little too much. And what is that impact on families, black, the black family in this generation. So that's something I hadn't really thought a lot about. And so I feel like I learned a lot. You know, normally you come into conversations, you feel like you have your talking points, especially as a journalist. Like I listened and I learned. And another really standout moment for me was Lena Bloom came on. She's a beautiful trans activist and model. So eloquent. I really encourage you guys to listen to watch that episode. But she sort of challenged the room. She looked around and she said, how many trans people have you ever invited to dinner or into your home?

And the whole table went silent. And she really made a compelling case for why we as a culture, as a community, really need to open our minds and open our hearts. And, and, you know, even if you do not understand the trans experience, it is your job to protect and to love your, your sister and your brother, your sisters and your brothers in the trans community and that we failed them, essentially. And I was really, again, I was really proud of the room for holding space for that difficult conversation. And I think we really heard her.

We really heard her. And I hope that, especially for the older heads, this is a conversation that's a little bit new. It's especially for the older heads, this is a conversation that's a little bit new. It's newer for the older heads in this space. I think it changed some of their perspectives. Yeah. You had your child at home, right? I think I read that somewhere. I did. Okay, you had a midwife. Yeah, I had a home birth with a midwife. Was it because of all the things that are going on in the hospitals and the way the black maternal death rate is, You just didn't trust it.

It's also during the pandemic, COVID, right? 17 months ago, right? No. No. Wasn't it? I mean, are we still in the pandemic? I don't know. I don't know what stage we are.

But I mean, well, listen, I got married at home on my stoop during the pandemic and I had my baby at home. I don't know what stage of the pandemic it was, but yes, it was because, you know, I went, I went into pregnancy thinking that I was going to have a hospital birth, just like, you know, my mother did and my grandmother did. That's the norm in our country. But, and I, I, I sort of knew about the maternal mortality crisis and the black maternal mortality crisis, like in a peripheral sense, like it's something that happens out there in the world. But maybe not as much here. I think I bought into this myth that it also, you know, tends to happen only in impoverished communities. And so here I am as this, you know, as black women go in this country, I am, I have all the privileges you could have.

So I thought I wouldn't have a problem having my baby in the hospital, finding a great doctor, finding great care. And I was so shocked to learn how difficult it is to find a healthcare provider in our current medical system that makes you feel safe, that makes you feel listened to, that makes you feel safe, that makes you feel listened to, that makes you

feel like, you know, there's a compassionate person that's going to make sure that you have the birth that you want. Are you based out of New York? I'm based out of LA. LA, okay. And so I went through from doctor to doctor to doctor. And this is me. I am like, you know, I'm pretty well connected. I got resources. I could go to the best of the best. And I had bad experience after bad experience after bad experience. It was so incredibly humbling. And it was the first time where I had to really confront the fear

that I could very well become another statistic. And what I learned as I went through this journey is that this issue is so complex. It is this crisis, this maternal mortality crisis that, you know, that overly impacts black women is very real. And unfortunately, the rates of deaths are actually surging. It's really scary. And I think when you talk about it with folks, I think people still have, there's this concept, this misconception that this isn't happening in this country, that this isn't happening to people who look like me or come from where I come from. You know, it's not happening to well-educated black women of means. It absolutely is. And as I've gotten deeper into this work and into the

stats, I realized that black women, black wealthy women are dying at higher rates than poor white women in this country during and after childbirth. So when you understand like truly where, where, what the picture is, how, how prevalent this issue is in our country, in the richest country in the world, you start to, you start to think about what informs your point of view on where a safe birth happens and who's delivering your baby and why these messages are what you believe. And so I always thought like, oh, to be safe, I should have... I've heard of home births. I've heard of midwives. Sounds beautiful. God bless. But to be safe, air quotes, I'm going to have my baby in a hospital. But is it truly safer to have your

baby in a hospital when you're a black woman in America? You have to really you have to unpack that. And so I decided to have my baby outside of the hospital really because it was the place that I found the best care. It's as simple as that. I am so lucky that I found black midwives, Kimberly Durden and Allegra Hill. They own the only black-owned birthing center in all of Southern California, which is wild. Wouldn't you think that there would be plenty

of birthing centers and black midwives there? But it's still, it's a bit of a desert as it relates to this kind of maternal care. But these women were like angels. They were truly like they're unsung. Midwives and doulas are unsung heroes in our community. And they came in and completely changed the trajectory of my pregnancy and really opened my mind, opened my eyes to this crisis. And I feel compelled now to do something about it. And I will say, I think we, I had a beautiful birth. I had a sacred birth. I felt

so safe and cared for. And I feel like we need to share more positive birthing stories with black women, from black women. Explain the process, because we've had a doula. Latham Thomas. Latham Thomas appeared several times. Latham Thomas. Is your wife pregnant? We had our last two. Latham was our doula for our last two.

Latham is incredible. Latham is like also another unsung hero. Oh, man. She's been a bitch every time. She's the best. So explain the process because I think what most women think, when you think of home, you think of pain, right? And I think a lot of people go to the hospital for that epidural.

They go to the hospital, make sure that if there's any complications, especially with the baby, that the doctor can take care. So just explain the process. I have six, but all at a hospital, all hospital, all hospital. Me and my wife, all hospital. But break down the process of the experience. So women listening, don't get frightened

because if I'm listening, I will get frightened. Now all I'm thinking about is pain. I'm thinking about what happened. I'm thinking blood. I'm thinking a whole lot. So break down the process. I'm so glad you asked this because we need to reframe pain for birthing

people. I too was so incredibly scared of not having access to an epidural. Like even when I found my midwife, I fell in love with her. I was like, I would love for you to birth my baby, but can we just have an epidural just in case? Could it just be there? And she's like, kind of like the whole thing. You can't have an epidural for a home birth. And that was the thing that made it, it was like the hardest part for me to overcome is like, what if I can't handle the pain? And I actually did not decide to have a home birth until 36, 36 or 37 weeks. It was like go time. And I still was like, you know, dating doctors and tiptoeing like that line. And ultimately I made the call because I was able to shift my mindset around pain. And I did that with the support and the guidance of my midwife. She talks about pain,

the pain of childbirth as purposeful, as directional. And she doesn't even use the word pain. She uses the word waves. She uses the words like intensity. And she made it clear to me that your body has been preparing for this since the day you started your period the those cramps that you feel that discomfort that you feel is the exact pain that you will feel as labor starts so it's not an unfamiliar pain like i thought i was going to be like like it's going to feel like knives in my the way the movies make it seem like it is absolutely horrifying. Like the movies and everything we've ever seen about birth is all inspiring fear.

None of it is inspiring self-trust. And what a midwife does and what my midwife did is completely, she gave my power back to me. I feel like we have been trained as a culture, conditioned as a culture to give our power away as women, as black women, as birthing people. We give our power away to these authorities in white lab coats that often undermine our intelligence, that often gaslight us, that take advantage of the power that we give away. We're not taught about our bodies. We're not taught about what we were built to do. We're not taught about how babies have been getting here

since the beginning of time, which was not in a hospital, right? We're not taught about how the OB, you know, obstrenetics came about and that it was set up as a business that prioritizes profit over patients. We're not taught this. Once you learn just how systemic and complex this issue is, you start to realize that like you need to, there's a lot of unlearning that we have to do. And I was so grateful that like this woman, this midwife,

the way she talked about birth was like pleasurable. And I was like, oh, that's how I know she's crazy. She's crazy. How is she talking about birth? Like pleasurable and i was like oh and that's how i know she's crazy she's crazy how is she talking about birth like it's a pleasurable experience but y'all when i tell you and i god as my witness my husband as my witness my midwife as my witness delivering my child at home in an unmedicated birth was the single most empowering experience of my life it was it was transformative it was oh my gosh i'm getting emotional it was spiritual it was beautiful like the pain was so secondary to the downloads that i got spiritually to the access to my power that was unlocked for me. It was absolutely beautiful.

And I just wish that more women were told you were built for this. You can more than handle this. You will, you will not just survive. You can thrive through your birth. And so this is not to demonize, you know, the epidural.

Listen, girl, if you want to go epidural, get the epidural, press the button, go for it. If you want to have a hospital birth, girl, do that. But make sure that you feel comfortable and safe and seen by your health care provider because too many of us are dying in the hospital system. And if you are not finding the health care that you deserve, that you need, look outside. Look into alternatives. Look into other options. Other options are available. are not finding the healthcare that you deserve, that you need, look outside. Look into alternatives, look into other options.

Other options are available and you can have a beautiful, safe birth experience outside of the hospital system. Let me ask you one more question, right? You said- Ooh, you guys got me emotional. I didn't expect to go there today, wow. It's real conversation

because there's a lot of women out there that need this information. Now, you said at 36 weeks that you were uh still quote-unquote dating doctors right i could be wrong but i thought a guy your gynecologist is the one that usually delivers your doctor and that gynecologist somebody that you've been with for a long time and trust is that that not the case because i have six kids right so the first the first delivery, Madison, effed up gynecologists.

It was like a dating the doctor type of thing. My wife went to somebody, was horrible, bad experience. My wife almost passed. She had 104 temperature for three, four days. It was very, very bad. We moved to Jersey and she got a gynecologist minority woman that we trust and delivered our other five babies, no problems. But that woman was somebody that we trusted. If my wife said there was a

problem, she dropped what she did to get to that hospital. She believed, she trusted. So when you said data doctors, don't most people use their gynecologist to deliver their baby? So it's somebody that they see that knows them, that they trust, or is that not true? No, absolutely. That's the ideal scenario, right? But you have to understand, we were, first of all, in a pandemic. I had just moved to a new state in a pandemic. I didn't have a general doctor. You know, I didn't have a regular physician, let alone an OBGYN. I hadn't gone to the doctor since the beginning of the pandemic.

I'm generally healthy. And so I wasn't thinking about seeking out a doctor or an OBGYN until I got pregnant. So once I got pregnant, I thought, okay, how hard is it to find a good doctor? Can't be hard. I live in the Mecca of, you know, I live in LA. So I got referrals. I did all the things you're supposed to do. I, I got referrals. I checked, you know, I checked everyone at all these doctors out on Google. I went in prepared with questions. And what I found is that I was met with, what is the word? I was met with resistance. I would say at best, It's like the most polite way I was, I was met with resistance when I came in with questions, when I came in sort of informed and when I had the audacity to,

you know, just ask what I thought were basic questions about how this would go to, and also just try to, when I tried to just form some sort of, you know, connection to this person, it was like, I was rushed the in and out girl. I was literally told like a fast food service, like a fast food service. I mean, I'm, I don't think people understand that when you, when you are pregnant, you are in your most vulnerable state, right? I didn't even know to expect that. And I was very emotional and I came in and I was rushed. These doctors would not look at me in my face. They just kind of toss medication my way

without even asking me. I mean, it was just, it was so inhumane. I had vials of blood, six vials of my blood taken on accident without apology. They tried to excuse it and act like it didn't happen. Like so many things happened. I was like, I now see how this happens. I just don't like how they don't allow you to film, right?

You pay for a service. You're paying for that. It's not free. Right. You're paying for that. But they won't allow you to film your birth in most hospitals. And they say it's to protect them. So if they do something wrong, you can't protect yourself. I just never understood that.

There's so much you can't do that I didn't know. In most cases, in many cases, I should say, you can't eat in the hospital once you're in labor. You have to have an IV in your system, which means you can't move around freely. That's right. You most of the time have to deliver on your back or in the bed, which let's just think about this for one moment. This completely changed my outlook on birth when one of my girlfriends was like, she had a home birth and she said, think about how gravity works, right? If you had to like push a bowling ball outside out of your body.

You would stand up a squat right does it make sense to lay on your back to push a bowling ball out of your body or does it make sense to be upright to use gravity when somebody said that i was like yo that is the most basic yeah thing and how come we why have we been trained to think that this is the only way birth should happen on your back with a doctor seated at the – that's for the doctor's convenience. And I'm not saying this in all cases. For some cases, you must be on your back. It's the safest thing.

In some cases, you need medical interventions. In some cases, you need a C-section. Like I am not anti-doctor and I'm not anti-hospital. But what I am is pro-woman and pro-baby. And I think that our needs and our desires and our wishes should be honored. And I've had a doctor literally in the middle of asking questions stand up and walk out of the room and say, you have exceeded your two to three question max and i've given you some grace but i need to go two to three question max i'm like i'm in my

most vulnerable state and i am coming to you with legitimate questions with a polite attitude i'm friendly and you are just shutting me down and walking out on me. And it just made me feel so small. And even as some, and I think it's important for someone like me to talk openly about this. Cause I, I think that people would assume that someone, this couldn't happen to someone like me, like no way,

you know, I'm, I'm outspoken. I'm a journalist. I'm informed. Um, I'm confident, but the experiences that I had with these doctors you guys broke me down wow it

made me question myself it silenced it silenced me it made me i cried after every appointment i started thinking some things may be wrong with me like do i need to smile more what can i do to make myself seem worthy of good care in the presence of these doctors. That is not the way it should be. I'm paying for the service. I'm paying into, so the whole medical industrial complex is, is poisoned. And there's so much change that needs to happen. There's so much reform that we need on every level within the hospital system, within the insurance system, you know, at the legislative level. We need to figure out how to create pipelines for more midwives, more doulas. We have to figure out how to create more access

so that underserved communities can have access to midwives and doulas if that's what they need. And by the way, the other thing that I learned, which made me feel energized around this topic, because this topic is depressing to a lot of people and they kind of like lean back. They're like, oof, I don't really want to talk about that. That's just, I'm just going to hope for the best with my, with my birth. But I think we have to lean in to this conversation. What helped me lean in was understanding that this is solvable. There are solutions. And there's a stat that was really staggering to me that basically if you have a midwife or a doula,

70% of these deaths could be prevented. 70% of these maternal health, black maternal health deaths could be prevented with the intervention of a midwife and a doula, that gives me hope. That's like, OK, well, if we if that's the way to solve this, let's figure out how we can create a pipeline of more midwives, more doulas.

Let's figure out how we can create a system that's it's more of a hybrid model where doctors, doulas and midwives can all coexist peacefully, can work well together. And so that's, as you can see, I'm just very fired up about this particular issue because I just think there's nothing more important than keeping mothers alive to raise these children that we are bringing into the world, especially at a time like this where more women are being forced into motherhood before they're ready. If we have the audacity as a country, if our government has the audacity to force women into parenthood before they are ready, we need to create systems that will keep them alive to raise those children.

It is as simple as that. So I hope next season, I'm bringing it back to the show, I hope next season this is something we can talk about and unpack. This is definitely a conversation. Can I just tell you, this is the first time I had this conversation with two men. Listen, I swear by doulas. You do. I have chills right now.

Just because of the experiences that me and my wife have had in the hospital, whether it was emergency C-section, she had to be rushed for our second child, and when Latham came in for our third child, my wife was dreading having another C-section. Latham was like, you don't have to have one. But the doctor was telling her they had to have one. And what you realize is it's easy for the doctor and it's more money because it's a surgery.

So the doctor can schedule what day to come in, cut her open, take the baby out, sew her back up, it's more money. But think about how much pain that causes for the woman. But they're not thinking about that. They're thinking about them. And surgeries go left. Surgeries can go wrong.

And I also feel like I need to say, things can go wrong in a home birth, absolutely. But I think the problem is we've inflated, like there's an inflated sense that home births are more dangerous than hospital births. And if you actually look at the stats, that's not true. And I feel like I need to also share that, like, while I had this beautiful birth that truly changed my life and my perspective on literally everything, I did have a complication after I delivered my baby. And I won't get into the details about it. But what I will say is that I had the most competent medical professionals in in my home,

who took the best care of me. And they were so not only did they take the best care of me. And they were so, not only did they take the best care of me and solve the problem in a speedy manner, but they protected my mental and my spiritual and my emotional state such that I did not even know I was having an emergency. I did not know until the next day. So when I think about my birth, I don't have birth trauma. I don't think about birth trauma. I don't think about this complication. I think about the incredible experience that I had. And that's because they prioritized my mental health and my peace and my sanity and my well-being in a 360 way.

I asked them, if I was in a hospital and this exact same thing happened, what would have happened? They were like, well, they would have rushed in. A number of nurses and doctors probably would have come in. You probably would have been separated from your child. You would have been rushed into a different room. You might have been given blood transfusion. You like, it would have been like, I mean, alarms would have been going off.

In my, in the safety of my home, I was taken care of. I didn't know anything was going wrong. They swiftly handled me and they were very prepared to call the ambulance if they needed to. And I think that's really important for people to know. People think that like there aren't mechanisms in place to navigate when something goes wrong. And their midwives, their actual job is to identify the point when and if you need medical intervention. If you need to call the ambulance, you need to get to someone to a hospital, there's already a plan in place. I had four backup hospitals. I spoke to doctors at every single one of them, spoke to nurses at every single one of them, because as a

black woman, I did not want the first time, I didn't want them to meet me for the first time in my most vulnerable state, in an emergency state. I wanted them to know my name. I wanted them to see my face. And honestly, who has time to go from hospital to hospital to do that kind of thing? I made the time because I knew it was a matter of life or death. And so I share that with whoever is listening. There's so much fear mongering around motherhood and childbirth in this country. And it's for a good reason. These stats are really staggering. They're real. It's very scary. But at the same time, there are pathways to beautiful, safe birthing experiences. And there are things we can do to empower ourselves and to advocate for

ourselves. And I think a big part of that is empowering our partners and informing our partners on how they can be advocates for us and how they can be allies. So I just really want to, I really want to hold space for this just to say like, thank you guys for even taking this much time in this interview to talk about this. And as fathers, you guys, I can tell you care. I can tell you're leaning in. And literally this is the kind of conversation we're having on the Conversations Project. So I just, to come full circle, I just want to say thank you so much for that. Well, to respond, I would say that, you know, the best thing about these conversations,

you know, Charlemagne has four daughters with his wife. I have six kids with mine. But more men want to know what's going on. Before it was one of those things, you go to the hospital, tell us when we need to be there, but we want to be a part of it. We want to know what affects you, what makes you cry, what hurts what your concerns are because now situation we can do it together yeah it's not just you on your own and same thing with us and with the stuff that we go through it's not just us on our own and we appreciate you for sharing your story that's also why duels are important too

when you're in those hospitals and have to communicate with those doctors and those nurses as a father as a husband when you see your wife in pain. You're wiling out. You're wiling. You're wiling out. You're not calm. That's right. One of our kids, they didn't have any epidurals.

The hospital had no epidurals. What do you mean? The hospital had no epidurals. You told me what hospital. That's where my wife delivered, which is weird. The hospital had no epidurals. So my wife had to deliver the baby. They could have went and got one from another hospital,

but she was already right there. So she ended up having the baby with no epidural. Like, what the fuck do you mean y'all ain't got no epidural? You know what I mean?

Like, that's how I'm talking to the people. You know, but when you have a doula, a doula communicates in a different way. Yes, 100%. So Luke the Latham always.

Love Latham. Yeah. And I will say, my husband was like my doula, by the way. Like, my husband, I call him my dad doula. We were in the bathroom.

We were in the shower. We were in the shower for the majority of my labor. He sat there with me and, and labored with me. It was the most, it was the most beautiful experience for us as a couple. And I, there was this one like triumphant, amazing moment where I got into this like deep meditative state. I was like in a trans, I was literally on another planet. And I was just breathing, breathing, breathing. And I got this like download where I thought, okay, what happens if I don't react to the pain? I feel the wave coming. What if I just breathe and just don't even react? Is that possible? Let's try. So I sat there and like every time I felt like tensing up or like my eyebrows furrowing or my hands,

I just breathed into those areas and I just tried to just smile and stay calm. And I was able to do that through three or four contractions. And my husband's sitting right in front of me in the shower, which by the way, the shower is liquid epidural. Ladies, listen up. The shower is liquid epidural. It takes your pain. Yes. I was in the shower with the water on. It took my pain from a seven to a two. Why don't we tell women this? Why don't we talk about this? Why do we act like epidural is the only pain relief available to us it's not water is it's the most natural thing so i sat there and i'm having my

water i'm having my like divine goddess feminine you know divine feminine moment i'm sitting there feeling so powerful so strong and my husband's sitting at like literally kneeling in front of me looking at me and he's and my eyes were closed and he and he he taps me and he's like babe do you think you're gonna have another one soon is everything okay and i just went i just had three and he was like damn like i never felt like more of a bad bitch in my life i'm telling you right now i never i was like yo i could do anything if i can do this. And I swear to you guys, that lesson that just was deposited to me in labor is something I think about every single day. When something happens that makes me uncomfortable, that pisses me off, something, a challenge arises, I breathe into it. And I'm like, how can I not react to this?

How can I rise above this? How can I ride this wave versus letting this wave take me down? These are things that, these are like just gems that would not have been unlocked to me if I didn't allow myself, trust myself enough to go through this process and allow my body to do what it was meant to do. And I wish more people talked about the spiritual side of birth, of unmedicated birth. And it's not easy. I don't want to paint like an unrealistic picture.

It's not easy, but we were built to do hard things. And by the way, my baby was nine pounds, okay? So it's a nine pound baby. Big baby, unmedicated. And I lived to tell the story

and I didn't just survive, but I thrived through it. Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story. Watch the Conversation Project on Hulu right now. Elaine Walteroth, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story. Watch The Conversation Project on Hulu right now. Elaine Walteroth, thank you so much.

Thank you, guys. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning.