The Breakfast Club - Fab 5 Freddy Talks Evolution Of Hip-Hop, Relationship With Basquiat, Blondie’s 'Rapture' + More

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Fab 5 Freddy Talks Evolution Of Hip-Hop, Relationship With Basquiat, Blondie’s 'Rapture' + MoreSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Charlamagne Tha God. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building, a legend when it comes to this hip-hop thing. Come on, man. Ladies and gentlemen, Fab Five Freddy. Welcome, brother. Hey, man. Pleasure to be here, man. What's happening? What's happening? Man, pleasure to have you, brother. Oh, man. Thanks so much. Man, first of all, how are you?

I'm wonderful. Thank you for asking. Yeah. And you know, we just celebrated 50 years of hip-hop. Incredible. What does that mean to fab five freddie man like i said it's been i tell you it's been incredible just going through the motions but at that yankee stadium gig uh the vibe in the amongst the people the energy that enthusiasm that like grown folks you know that lived through it been through it heard all these hits having an incredible time.

And then when them acts was on, I'm looking way up all around and people up in the highest points of Yankee Stadium rocking the house. So that hit me like, wow, this, people really feel this. It's just hard to articulate how much it resonated for the community that made this all happen. And to be in the Bronx, like it was just, it all came together for me.

Did you ever think that hip hop would take it this far to quote the late? I know. I love that quote. Not at all. Not at all. I mean, I mean, I was clearly thinking of like, you know, in terms of moves I made, having some control over the narrative, you know, being aware that people that look like us in previous generations of our culture didn't have that ability to host the shows,

you know, the footprint that you guys have and the things that others like us in media and do these things. So that was like a super significant thing that I thought about from beginning but to see it come to this point globally the most listened to form of music around the world still is just astonishing let's let's go back for people that don't know who fab five Freddie is you started off as a graffiti artist right yeah so let's let's start from the beginning how you got into this thing called hip-hop and what you created because you started off as a graffiti artist. Right. And I'm sure you were tagging trains back in the day because that was the thing to do.

The trains. That was the thing to do. The trains, the walls, the buses. Right. Anywhere. It was an audacious thing to do. And when I think back, so many New York teenagers back then in the 70s just felt like it was OK to put your name anywhere you felt it needed to be. And then the competition of that developed into a real, you know, refined and defined form of expression. Ways of using them spray cans that nobody ever envisioned anywhere. Like, you know, spray cans is just, you know, to paint an old piece or whatever around the house. Now we've created a way to make murals that kind of tell stories about who we are and where we are and what we want to be and do and all those things. It was like a fantasy. Kind of like rap was that too.

I'm going to invent myself and talk about all these things I want to do. And in graph, as it began to really flower it was like you know I'm a superhero and my name is big and you know all those things kind of took off in ways that and then you know early on I got a something clicked in my head that you know looking at pop art and what you know I used to go to museums a lot as a kid and looked at what Andy Warhol and these pop artists were doing and I was like wait a minute, they're inspired by the same things that we were as graffiti artists, like looking at popular culture, names, comic book logos, you know.

And that kind of made me want to be a visual artist like those guys were. And then that began a journey that I kind of helped lead taking graffiti art into galleries turning it into something called street art which is also like a global thing you know probably heard of my homie rest in peace Jean-Michel Basquiat, young brother out of Brooklyn and we met on that downtown scene had similar aspirations figure out a way to be artists like Malcolm X X said, by any means necessary. Was Basquiat in the graffiti too?

Yeah, he used to, Jean was tagging, but he was putting up these like poetic phrases, quotes that were not in any way like typical graffiti, but it was a part of graffiti, and nobody knew he was a young brother doing it. Initially, he started out doing something called SAMO, which was short for SAMO, you know what I mean? And then that developed and then we met and he was on the scene.

He turned out to be a brother. Like he was doing stuff around Soho in the village area. People didn't know he was a brother. And we met at a party, right as I'm kind of stepping on that downtown art scene. And we both had similar aspirations to try to figure this out. So we began to, you know, we kind of linked up and we're in the same circuit. Blondie was somebody that we met pretty much at the same time. I'm in their ear about this new culture. And then they kind of took us under their wings, so to speak, and brought out work.

Some of the first people to buy paintings from myself and Jean-Michel. And then took some inspiration from them stories I told them and made a record called Rapture. Hold on, we got to stay here for a minute. And Rapture was the first video on MTV. That was one of MTV's first videos, which I'm featured in, along with Jean-Michel. I tried to get Flash, who was supposed to have come, to be the DJ I had met. Cause you know, was working on the first hip hop movie, Wild Style, in that same timeframe, early 80s. I said, Flash, come down and be in this video.

You know, to think that there was no MTV at that time, so we did, music video was not a thing, but still, I'm like, they had this idea to create a music video. All the people we hung out with were in the video. Flash never showed up. So I said, Jean, stand at the turntables. And I tried to tell him, but Jean just stood there with a grin on his face.

So in the rap show video. Jean Chabasquiat. Yeah, Jean Chabasquiat. So as Debbie starts to rap, and the first line is Fab Five. Freddie told me everybody's fly. She's saying it to Jean. And then she, she you know the song goes on so that turned out to be one of mtv's first videos when the channel launched and uh

close to 10 years later they would they were kind of pressured into trying to you know to to do a show about rap music and i got the call yo mtv raps i want to hear more about bosky but i want to talk about blondondie too because we had these conversations about 50 years of hip hop and what I'm starting to realize is the role that Blondie played in helping get hip hop mainstream and we have all these conversations about white allies now. She was one back then because I saw something, I was watching the ladies first documentary and she put funky, what is it? Rob Markman Funky 4 Plus 1. and she put Funky... What is it?

Funky 4 Plus 1 on SNL. That's right. And that was me because I had been in their ear playing them old school hip-hop party tapes, breaking it all down. And so a lot of the things that she's saying in the rap were things that I

told her. You know, Flash is fast. Flash is cool. Fab Five Freddy told me everybody's fly. On the early hip hop scene, it was fly guys and fly girls. So I'm telling her the slang, explaining how Flash was the fastest DJ and how that was a big thing. And I was amazed that they went out and made that record. I knew they were feeling me, her and her boyfriend at the time,

Chris Stein, that was the nucleus of Blondie. And they would invite me to come hang out with them. And we would just talk pop culture. Chris Stein, he was from Brooklyn. He loved the graffiti on the train. So when I said, yeah, I'm one of those guys, oh man, I love that stuff. And then I began to share my ideas, trying to figure out a way to be a visual artist, trying to make it happen. It was actually them that took that. The first time I met Mr. Andy Warhol was through them. And then we, you know, me and Andy and I became friends. He was a supporter of what we were doing. And yeah, they made that record and it went number one across the country and many countries around the world.

And I don't describe it as hip-hop, but it was the first time people heard rapping in a context. And then also what she graciously did was shout me out and mention other things in the scene that I told her. Later when Flash did this record, The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel, where he literally made a record, an example of what he would do live, just masterfully cut up a series of records it started with using that

using that rapture song where you hear that thing and then he cuts it into a whole bunch of different uh other songs are cut in which is how do you think people like blondie avoided the label of culture vulture back then? You know what I mean? That's a good question. But that word, Culture Vulture, as a concept, didn't exist. And I think it was, I mean, if you were really dialed into hip-hop, which wasn't that big of an audience outside of New York, most people didn't know what the hell she was doing.

They just were big Blondie fans. She sang as the record opened in her lovely voice and then broke into this rap and was pretty decent at it you know all things considered it's not like i sat there with her and tried to teach her how to rap she had rhythm and just said oh i'm gonna make a record fat i've been in her ear a lot and this record was a reflection that it was such a gracious thing because it turned out to be a calling card for me nobody really knew who I was I hadn't been on TV then you know

and then when MTV happened and they decided to try it out immediately it had the highest ratings any show had had at that time then people began to figure out wait a minute that's the guy that Blondie mentioned on the rap show. Let's go back to Yo! MTV Raps so Yo! MTV Raps they flipped this the rap show. Let's go back to Yo! MTV Raps. So Yo! MTV Raps, they flipped this channel,

and they create this hip-hop show called Yo! MTV Raps. I'm sure at the time it was kind of like a stab against Ralph B. Daniels' video music box. No, not at all. No, Ralph was definitely, I was a fan of Ralph's show from the beginning. But they were resistant. What MTV was trying to do do it's interesting that you you guys are now you know have this big position doing radio the guys like you

absolutely the guys like you laying there yep well you know the thing was radio was pretty segregated and in the American charts I mean England was different that's why I reference America pop Pop pretty much meant white, essentially. So no matter what kind of record you made, if you could make a record that was pop in all the descriptive ways, the people doing it were black. They would most often end up on the R&B or the soul chart or the dance chart. And so MTV was set up to try to mirror that,

a visual form of what American radio stations were. And so when black acts got big, they were like, why am I not getting any love on there? And so with the exception of a little Lionel Richie, a little Prince, there was very little black music to be seen. And then I think it was Michael Jackson's label, Columbia's, CBS, if I'm not mistaken, Epic, whichever one of those, really pressured them. And they said, listen, we're going to pull all our other acts, which included Bruce Springsteen, off of MTV if you don't play Michael Jackson. I think that specifically was Billie Jean.

And then they played it, the numbers went through the roof, and then came Thriller and everything like that. So that really they had to realize that it's time to change up that attitude. And then there were two young white guys at MTV, Peter Daugherty and then Ted Demme. Rest in peace. Peter I'd known on the downtown scene. He knew moves I was making with Blondie and hip-hop's first film, Wild Style. And so he was in their ear.

Records were selling like crazy, Run DMC, LL. Some of those first early hip-hop records were going crazy. No marketing, no promo. And so they said, okay, we're going to try this out. And they tried it. And also I'd like to mention there was a European version called The Yo Show that a female named Sophie Bromley, a French woman, North African French woman

who was really cool, had hosted for a short period of time, only on MTV Europe, and then they decided that, so that's where the Yo came from. There was a Yo, and then they said, okay, well, we're gonna call it Yo MTV Raps,

and it went through the roof. And they called you first. You were the first host that they wanted. Yeah, I was the first host because I knew Peter, and they saw the moves I was making. They saw the Rapture video. They saw the film Wild Style, which I produced, did all the original music for, and then one of the lead characters.

So I had a bit of a presence, and they made this argument. And they said, let's give it a try. And the ratings were crazy from the jump. And so I held down the Saturday slot. They'd asked me about a year or two into it. They wanted to get a daily version of the show. And I didn't want to overexpose myself. Plus I'm directing music videos at the time.

The first video I did was my philosophy. KRS-One. KRS-One and then a whole string of videos. So I wanted to stay in my lane. I didn't want people to be like oh man I'm tired of seeing him him on the screen you know whatever

like a lot of those other VJs would be on there for hours introducing all these you know Duran Duran and whatever else and then they luckily found Ed Lover and Dr. Dre

How long were you working at YonTV Raps before they brought in Ed Lover and Dre? It was about I think it was close to two years, the first two, if I'm not mistaken. And you wasn't upset with leaving, or you wanted to leave, or was it? Well, when it ended, about six or seven years in,

which was an incredible run, it was kind of sad that it came to an end. But I realized, like, you know, those acts that debuted on your MTV Raps were so pivotal. They were so defining of the culture. Like, the first time people saw, you know, Tupac, N.W.A., you know, Luke, and them, I would go to these areas where they were. Yeah, you invented that. Everybody that's doing these shows now, where they go to where people are that's absolutely fab five freddie fab five freddie invented the on location conversation yeah and that was motivated by

the way mtv had been set up the vjs would be in a room it would have all these kooky images going on in the background kind of a crazy you know just mash of visuals. And they'd be on for two, three, four hours at a time. And it was like, I mean, they're like, man, I just want to see this video. I had a, you know, lame dude on the screen. What's going on? So I just was all about less is more was the thing for me. And yeah, so it was a beautiful run.

I know we're going to be all over the place because you just got such a great history. So many gems. And I know you say you didn't see hip-hop going this far, but as far as hip-hop becoming mainstream, you played a big role in that. When I think of the movie Wildstyle, what did that movie mean to you and hip-hop at that time? Yeah, well, that was an idea that I had had to try to create a better look for us. A lot of times in the media, when somebody was a young black or Latin person, when they were seen, you know, some cool street person was almost always in a negative context.

And I wanted to try to do something to change that narrative. Also, as trying to be a visual artist, which was the main thing I focused on, but dabbling in other forms of creative expression, I wanted to just put us all in a better light and then show what we were doing. So the idea that I had had for Wild Style was to show a way to show the connection between all these elements that are part of hip hop now. That didn't exist before. So the idea was to make a film that showed the connection between this rapping, this DJing, the breakdancing, and the visual form of expression graffiti. And I hooked up with this cat, Charlie Ahern, who was an underground filmmaker on the downtown scene in New York.

He had made a super low-budget movie about kung fu that had caught my eye. When I linked with him, I basically pitched this idea for the movie. And he said, essentially, let's get busy. So then we started researching, going to parties in the Bronx, going to the T Connection, the Ecstasy Garage, meeting Busy B, Cold Crush, Fantastic, Funky 4 Plus 1 More, including Shy Rock. And that was how, to jump back to the Blondie thing, when they got the opportunity to host Saturday Night Live, they also got to pick who the support act was.

And they wanted to bring somebody hip hop on. So we talked about Flash and the Furious Five, of course they were big, but then I said, you know, the Funky 4, similar to Blondie, has a female out front. And I thought it was a nice counterbalance. That's what they talk about in the ladies first, Doc. I don't know if you've seen it, but they break that whole thing down.

It was all because of Shaw Rock that Blondie wanted them to be the group. Correct. So that was me behind that, and that was incredible. I remember being at Saturday Night Live for the taping of that, and it was a young brother that had, I didn't really get to kick it with him that much, that had just joined the Saturday Night crew, and that was Eddie Murphy.

Wow. He had just started around, and I remember seeing, because it was another brother that used to be on Saturday Night Live in the beginning, Garrett Morris was his name. Absolutely. And then here's this young cat, Eddie, who would later blow up all over the place. I heard of him. I'm familiar.

Look at you. A little bit, man. You know, it's so interesting because, you know, I keep hearing you talk about you wanted to make sure hip-hop was presented in the right way. Correct. Right? So I wonder, like, what are your thoughts on the genre of hip-hop now? Well, you know, hip-hop has continually amazed me with the different turns and the

evolutions that have happened within it. That's been the most fascinating thing for me. And some of the things that I've hoped for have come to light. Like I remember in the very early days when it was all pretty much throw your hands in the air, waving like you just don't care. Everybody say, oh, it was pretty much a party uplifting kind of vibe and that was cool. But then I said, man if somebody can figure out a way to say something that was socially relevant, I knew that would elevate us and that was the message. Broken glass everywhere, you know, don't push me because I'm close to the edge. Really articulated how a lot of people were living in New York and other hoods. And everybody got the memo that we can now throw our hands in the air and have a party, but we can talk about our realities in these streets.

And that was exciting. And then, so there's been things that have happened along the way that I've been really enthusiastic about. Obviously, when the conscious movement came in me working with krs1 in the beginning and chuck d and everything that opened up a whole another chamber that was incredible didn't see it coming but it was definitely needed and i think hip-hop is going to fit it constantly figures out a way it evolves it's like a it's like a living organism and different things affected come in it may go off the track a little bit with certain things, and then it'll come back with something that totally blows us away. Like, I think the African, even though it's

not specifically hip-hop, it's very inspired by the things that we've done. So the Afro beats and the Ama piano, which is a sound coming out of South Africa, a young kind of dance type sound, which is unique, is incredible as well, as well as what the cats in England have figured out on the grime side, you know, Stormzy and those cats that were constantly early in the early days of what they were doing. They were constantly trying to emulate rap groups from over here. I went to England and covered them during the URMTV Raps era. I remember London Posse was one of the hottest

groups at the time that had a New York, East Coast kind of rap flow, but they never really blew up as big as they wanted to in England. But then they figured out how to do it in their own way, with their own slang and their own way of speaking. And they made some dope records and blew up.

What's your thoughts on a lot of the legends and OGs who were the founders and creators and made this platform where there are billionaires and people are millionaires, but they haven't got to just do financially. And a lot of those brothers are not doing well now, but if it wasn't for them, we wouldn't have this sound. They wouldn't be the movies, the music, the DJs, the rappers.

What's your thoughts on that? Because I always feel like, damn, should there be like a union for the creators of this, you know? Wow. There's something coming up that I'm involved in. I can't elaborate on it a lot right now. Is it with LL? Because LL said there's something coming up that he said he can't elaborate on either

yet. Yeah. LL is probably aware. I'm a part of what he's doing with Rock the Bells, by the way. He said you wanted to found it. Well, yeah, he reached out. You have equity in it. Yeah, I have some equity in that.

And he made an incredible presentation, flew me out to really pitch in a proper way. I would have got down with him. He didn't have to go that. But I was impressed that he wanted to demonstrate he had learned how to play that business game properly. And I got down with him, signed the papers, and I'm super impressed to see what's happening. So there's something that's coming up, which is something that's going to address that and do something significant towards people that haven't gotten their just due, but that have had a significant impact. Trust me, in the fall, something's going to go down. You guys are going to get the memo,

and hopefully we can continue that, and hopefully there'll be more versions of this that are a significant give-back to pioneers. Unfortunately, because in that very, very, very early, almost pre-record days or the beginnings of that, a lot of cats didn't figure out how to monetize and how to do the kind of good business that you guys clearly have both figured out, which is incredible. Brothers like those earn your leisure cats are laying out a roadmap for how we can be fiscally attuned and aware of ways of doing the proper things with our money. Sloot the EYL. One more time.

I said, sloot the EYL, earn your leisure. Exactly, yeah, the earn your leisure guys. I ran into them the other day, in fact, when those cats were here in New York. And so that's a problem, unfortunately, that is just what it is. But I think there's been examples. Once again, on the positive side, you've had cats that figured out how to how to do business right how to how to accumulate not just be rich accumulate wealth you know the difference between rich and wealthy and it's great to see cats working on that

now yeah cuz I thought about that with y'all like what was the future for VJ's back then like did y'all even know what the future looked like like what what did y'all aspire to be after the vj thing well good question thankfully for me i was doing something prior i was already making moves you know making art uh you know making films like wild style and the vj thing just came to me really honestly which was great people would run up to me really honestly, which was great. People would run up to me, I want to do this. How do you do it?

I was like, man, I'd be awkward because I'm like, I can't tell you how to do it. There's no go to VJ school to do this. It was just a moment. Clearly MTV is a different, you know, all that stuff like doesn't exist. People can do, millions of people do that on youtube you know if you will um so there wasn't really a clear path if you will but if you like you see like i think interestingly um ed lover going to radio along with dr drake initially and being really good at it was a great transition there were some people that had worked at radio behind the scenes and whatever that then came to mtv uh stephen hill had been a have been a radio person and then transitioned to become

one of the producers at mtv but yeah that's a good one man there wasn't too many clear paths other than radio or some type of tv announcing maybe commercials or whatever but for me like i wanted to just get back to doing the things that I'm doing. I'm like an obsessive creative. And so that's it, you know, it's just creating. And that's still what I primarily do. I mean, you had to be right. And man, when they hear you talking,

I'm like the role that art played in hip hop. When you talk about Basquiat, when you talk about Warhol, I feel like, damn, that might be what's kind of missing. Like that connection to art, like actual art. Yeah, well, you know, it's interesting too because of the continued success and awareness of Jean-Michel and other things that we've done,

how street art, like hip-hop, is a global form of expression. People in countries around the world take it to the streets. So people are aware of art in a way, and I think that's the great thing about using this tech to inform ourselves, because I'd like to say all this stuff that we really want to know, or to get at least an overview, is a few clicks away and um you could you know who sandy was you know you i was you know like me i was one of those cats that would go to the library

and love spending some time in some books and which is the foundation of a lot of things i've done but now you can you can click through it and see it and chat g GPT it, and use those things before those things use you. Were you surprised? I feel like Basquiat has gotten the light put on him because of hip-hop. And it's like back then he didn't get the opportunity because he died before hip-hop kind of took off. I guess it was, what, 88?

I was going to ask, were you surprised of the explosion because it came so late? Well, it was building, though. So Jean was just a fascinating character. So there was films and interests in his life once people heard who he really was and the things he was doing and the moves he was making. And yeah, so it just continues to grow.

It feeds and it's like an organism, the awareness of Jean and his work, and then the exciting stories about his life and basically how we lived back then. We're young brothers trying to figure it out and figuring out a way to get in. It's just that Jean has exploded in a significant way and inspired a lot of other people to just dig in and learn more about art. That was the thing that we both cut school and went to museums a lot as young kids and got comfortable with the idea of making art, standing in front of great paintings in the Metropolitan Museum, the Brooklyn Museum, and things like that, the Museum of Modern Art, and being comfortable with these important pieces that you would later see

in different books and stuff, and then going, look, I can do this too, and I'm going to figure out a way in. That was the strategic thing. There was really no clear way in. So we would huddle and think about ways to get in that weren't the kind of formal ways in, and that was through connecting with other people that was making moves like Blondie,

other people on the downtown New York scene at the time, pulled us in, and then we made things happen, put art shows up, you know, group shows and things, and then caught the attention of the major players that had to

acknowledge what was going on. How many Basquiat pieces do you have? I've had work. Artists that are friends usually will trade things with each other. So over the years, me and him being cool, you know, a few things would change hands, you know. How many people called you and be like, yo, I know you got some Basquiat pieces. It's crazy when it comes up.

Sell me some of them pieces. You know, the numbers on his work is so crazy. It's such an awkward conversation now. It's like somebody asking you about the value of things that you own or can buy now or whatever, which gets kind of personal at a certain point. But the thing's got so crazy. It's an awkward conversation to have because, you know, you think about the security and how you're going to hold it down

or can you keep this in the house now because it's so crazy like does this make sense to keep this here or should you just find a safer place not that not not just being stolen but you don't want the house to get flooded or catch on fire so yeah because it's an investment and one piece that was just your brother's art now it's like exactly Jesus so you got a lot I'm not saying I'm not going to get it. Freddie Favre said, you ain't coming to my crib.

You got enough. You got some things ain't nobody seen before. Oh, well, I'm getting, I'm getting, I'm getting pressed. You know what,

I do want to ask you about Basquiat and Warhol. Well, two things. What were those conversations like? Because you see all these Andy Warhol quotes. Like one of my favorite

Andy Warhol quotes is the, in the future, everybody will be world famous Warhol quotes. Like, one of my favorite Andy Warhol quotes is, in the future, everybody will be world famous for 15 minutes. Like, did he really talk like that? No, but he wrote a book called The Philosophy of Andy Warhol from A to B and back again. And that was where he had a lot of other really smart things. Andy was very perceptive, very astute about the whole pop culture game

before it developed into where it is now. So he literally saw things that were coming, you know. And so that was a part of the genius of Andy. But then his public persona was kind of like simple answers, like, oh, gee, no. So he would kind of come off like he wasn't that kind of savvy a guy that he but he really was it was a very kind of a cultivated persona so when you got to know him and you hanging out and talk he really was like a big brother in many ways

and he saw that we were coming up we were were having exhibits. He would tell you, oh, this gallery, watch out for that dealer. Oh, my goodness, he's this and that. I'd be like, oh, wow. So he would be very chatty and very talky when you got to know him. But his public persona was a whole different thing. It was a Netflix doc that I took part in. And then I felt a little awkward because Andy was gay. And I didn't know he was gay in that regard

because his whole perception was I'm asexual, if you will. So I was like, okay, you know, he's not messing with anybody, and I'd never seen him around anybody that was his lover, girlfriend, or what have you, but the Netflix doc got really deep into the relationships he had, and I felt like almost embarrassed to get all this info that I was like, man, he so strategically kept it positive to see it all laid out. And I was in that doc.

I took part in that, but it was a lot that I didn't really realize was going on. Did you care? He probably didn't even care. Not really. I didn't really care, but on. Did you care? He probably didn't even care. Not really. I didn't really care. But it was just interesting just how crafty he was and how on top of culture he was for a really long time,

way before he, you know, like into the early 60s. Like the Warhol factory in that scene, almost anybody could have came up in there to hang out and hang around. And that might be like Lou Reed, you know, just a whole bunch of, know jim morrison jimmy hendrix like artists people just doing wild psychedelic drugs or whatever would all hang out and then somebody just walked up in there and basically shot him you know this chick said you're controlling my life like you, you know, just the buzz on him was driving her crazy.

And so that then shifted him to shut down a bit and to close the gates, and then he went to another level with it. But imagine that. You just got shot by somebody who's clearly a crazy fan. Man, listen, okay? You're controlling my life. Well, stop tuning in to me then.

That ain't got nothing to do with me. Yeah, so that was a wild story. But yeah, he was a definite big influence on a lot of us. He had broke through in ways. And then when we started making noise and he started coming to events, we were having, it was a symbol that we were doing the right thing. And, you know, he was acknowledging the work. And then it took it to the next level.

Him and Jean-Michel collaborated on a series of paintings together and that was like unbelievable so that got Andy to put the brush on canvas in ways that he hadn't done in many years and it was any of those pieces no no when I think about y'all being you know young back then it's like you're what and you I don't know what were y'all what was your aspirations like what did you and a Bosque I want to do like we were just you know that's a good question to kind um we were just trying to have an impact as artists we were trying to rock our scene which was a downtown scene this was obviously

thinking this is pre the internet and pre access with anybody can have instant access practically to anything going on in the world pre big money yeah but it was pre big money and big money we were looking to be comfortable and be able to pay the bills and pay the rent and you know have good meals and take you know hang out with our friends and party we didn't have that it wasn't like a like a like a focused on just getting paid. It was really making an impact with our work and really being heard and being seen. That's something that led me at a point when I'm making paintings

and was doing pretty decent at it, I was getting a little restless with just painting. And John and I both had talked about using any medium we can get our hands on so make music which he he dabbled with a bit um produce films as well as be in films which you know we both did at that time and so that was um one of the motivating things that a lot that we that we talked about and were just driven to kind of find ways of expressing ourselves. Do you remember how much, and I know we ask a lot of questions,

do you remember, this was a long time ago, do you remember how much paintings went for back then when y'all sold paintings, you or Bioscal, even Warhol, like what they were going for price-wise back then? In the beginning, if you could sell your work for a few thousand dollars, that's great. And then if things move, then those numbers could either quickly go up or go up at a nice moderate rate. Because as people acquire the work and, you know, work is accepted and respected and, you know, written about and other people want to show the work, there's an incremental increase in the prices.

And then at a certain point, it can just go really, really crazy, which it clearly did for John. But, you know, he received a lot of that, like, while he was alive. And then sadly, unfortunately, you know, passing really young at 27, then it just shifted into a whole other level. Right. Which, you know, was just a part of it. But I think the great thing, though,

is there's a lot more young artists, just artists of color, even artists that laid the foundation back in the times of the Harlem Renaissance, significant black artists, Jacob Lawrence, Romare Bearden, Charles Austin. A lot of these artists, there's a long list of these artists

that were from the Harlem Renaissance period that were strong and incredible that because of the way racism was at that time, they just didn't get the kind of love and acceptance. But a lot of that has been changing. A lot of institutions and museums are reaching out to realize we missed getting these significant works, which is a part of the story of American expression, visual artists.

So there's a lot, there's a strong effort, and a lot of dynamic young artists now making moves, you know, in America now, way more than were ever doing it, that are getting, top-tier recognition, collectors, et cetera, et cetera. What was it like for you in 1991 when the New Yorker named you the coolest man in New York City? Yeah, that was crazy.

Susan Arlene wrote that article. It was a profile. It was about 15 or 16 pages in the New Yorker. Yeah, that was wild. Yeah, I'd wild. I remember, this one, yeah, I'd been written about a lot at that time, you know, different articles about hip hop, different aspects of the culture, being on URMTV raps. And here comes this woman who wants to do a piece on me. She comes and hangs out with me a few times. She knew nothing about hip hop. And what I loved most about that piece was how right she got it, how hard they worked

to tell the story accurately. People had butchered how to say my name. They would always ask how long I think it was going to last, meaning that they thought this was all like a brief passing fad. And here's this woman, Susan Arlene, came and she got real curious and wanted to hang out with me while I'm taping your MTV raps, while I'm having meetings, planning for music videos I'm directing and just

listening to me talk. Obviously, you know, I'm into a lot of stuff and she caught it all and there was like a 15, 16 page piece for the New Yorker which was incredible. The only thing about being in New York at that time it wasn't read by a lot of people in the space

that we were in at the time. Like Vanity Fair was kind of hot at the time. And I used to think, man, I'm kind of due for, you know, for like a nice write up and maybe, you know, like in Vanity Fair, something like that. And then the New Yorker came along, which is considered like the greatest magazine. Some of the greatest writers in American history

have written for them. And here they doing a 15-page profile on me, you know, this hip-hop person doing this cultural stuff. But it was pretty good. And it's amazing that it still pops up. People see it on the internet and stuff like that. Did your ego ever get out of control? Not really.

You know, the thing about my ego, I'm glad you got good questions. I see why y'all both are so nice. That means the world coming from you, by the way. Absolutely. Thank you. So I had, like, people in my life. Like, my father grew up with a jazz legend named Max Roach,

who became my godfather. He, to the drums, is what Charlie Parker, to the sax, Miles Davis, to the trumpet, Dizzy Gillespie. He's in that category of cats that defined a new form of jazz, late 40s, 50s, called bebop. He's featured with his then wife, Abby Lincoln, in Summer of Soul, performing up in Harlem. And so he'd come by the house all the time,

kicking with my dad, always wanting to hug me, and, hey, man, what you doing? You know what I mean? So he was just so cool all the goddamn time. I could never be like, be on some stupid, you know, you know, like with a crazy ego. And then even Blondie and them would treat me so good. I'd be up in their house, hanging with them.

The biggest pop group in the world, literally number one records all over the place. So I learned to, you know, always got to be cool with this. So you mean there was always people around that reminded you, like, yeah, I'm not really a big deal. Well, you just can't go crazy with it. You got to be humble with this

and appreciate the fact that you have these opportunities, you know. It's just, you just, but it's easy to get caught up in that. I've seen it happen too many times. But luckily, you know, some people, if they can pump the brakes and check themselves and realize, man, I'm out there being a clown.

I'm being an asshole right now. I shouldn't be doing that. And how did it feel at the time when you had all these rappers, right? And these rappers are coming up. And now they're not as local. They're selling millions of records. But they're mentioning you in their raps. Do you remember the first time you heard your name

in a rap besides Rap Tube? Yeah, nah, EPMD, couple of guys, man, that was crazy, man, just such a humbling experience to just be recognized. But you know, a lot of cast that really has seen Wildstyle, so early, like in your MTV raps, a lot of people that was really dialed in on the game kind of knew who i was which

was really my first real audience was other people in in the in the culture really which was so cool and then that began to spread out but yeah you know that was a special special special dynamic do you uh do you do you remember that day you shot with NWA when you went out there? Yeah, that was a good one. And it became a lot of people's favorite show. I remember vividly. We had been playing videos by Eazy on the channel. And Ted Demme, he would talk to Eazy often.

And Eazy was like, man, I want you all to come out. We have a new group and I remember them sending us a memo the day before so listen nobody don't wear anything red or anything black no black either no I'm sorry red or blue red or blue wear black is what they said and I was like man I've been to LA a bunch of times but I didn't understand the dynamics in the hood. You know, I'd be in West Hollywood, in and out, on some art business or what have you. And so we was like, okay, so we want to show people this scene.

So let's rent a flatbed truck and let's ride around because, you know, we hadn't seen, like, what the hood was like or any semblance of L.A. And so we meet at the Welcome to Compton sign, and then we get on this flatbed truck and ride around and do segments from the truck. They take us to a swap meet, and they give us a little insight on how they live.

And it was crazy. I knew it was going to be a great show. I get back to the hotel, and I put the Walkman on, got the cassette of the new album, the NWA album, Straight Outta Compton. I listened to it for the first time. And I'm literally snatching the headphones off my head. Can't believe the things that they're saying.

F the police and just the aggressiveness. And the music was amazing and incredible, but the things they were saying, I was like, man, MTV is not going to let this happen. They're going to pull this, man. We done shot this incredible show riding around. Nothing's going to happen. Well, the videos they weren't able to play, the video for Straight Outta Compton,

but they still had other videos and other content, and the interview played, and it took off. So lovely. Was there anything you saw in, like, Dre or Cube back then? You know, Eazy is an icon, too, but anything you saw in Dre or Cube that let you know, oh, I can see them being where they are now? Yeah, well, I couldn't predict how huge it was going to be,

but they were so smart, and they clearly, sonically, particularly Dre, had studied what Public Enemy had been doing sonically. With the Bomb Squad? That's right, with the Bomb Squad. Thank you. And the level of production and using those samples was the state of the art at that time. And they had did something similar. And I remember before I had listened to the record and really understood it, Cube, a couple of times between the interviews was like, yo Fab, what's G-Rap like?

What's up with G-Rap? And I said, yo, G-Rap's cool and whatever, whatever. But then when I listened and I heard the aggressiveness of what they were saying, I saw that Cube happened to study in G-Rap. G-Rap, of course. G-Rap was spitting harder than anybody at that time. You know, songs like Riker's Island. In fact, I directed a video for G-Rap,

Road to the Riches. Road to the Riches. Which was the first rap song and then the video about the rise and fall of a New York crack dealer. Right. I'm the first video to put the image of Scarface in the thing, and that led to me getting in a associate producer role on New Jack City

because when George Jackson came to talk to me I'm finishing up Road to the Riches and he bugged out and man this is what the this is the concept this is the idea in the movie the undercover cop which I see would play I had a hand in casting all those guys it's crazy so that was a snapshot of that and yeah but NWA man genius and Cube you knowing that he was a person that wrote a lot of that helped structure a lot of that record it was just amazing and the fact that it it had the impact it had was just one of the great things in rap to see it come together and then you know in the

process of doing that I'm one of the first people that once again I'm interviewing these guys I'm hearing this West Coast slang I'm getting to hang out with them and I'm like money what's what what are the switches when you're told by hitting switches yeah before you knew like what a 187 was or some of the things that they were dropping we've just had to get the 411 which is similar to what other people in other parts of the country had to do to figure out what we were saying in New York. You know, they had to break down the slang, the translation.

Since you've interviewed so many people and you've been to so many cultures, whether it was, you know, L.A., the South, New York, when you hear the Mount Rushmore of hip hop, right, who's on your Mount Rushmore as far as artists are concerned? Well, you know, when I get asked those kind of questions, I'm basically like, I've loved so many, and I'm also aware that there's different eras where different people were the most important people at that time. Right.

So as the eras have evolved, my Mount Rushmore, it would be various versions, but I'm a lyrics guy primarily primarily so based on lyricism oh man it'd be in the beginning you know I'll screw up and I won't I'm sure there's names I forget but in the beginning of course you know only before for every era, Kaz, you know, man, who else? Man, I'll screw this up. Cowboy, you know, and then going on further from that, you know, Kane, Rakim, G-Rap. Okay.

Oh, man. Jesus, yeah. People forget about G-Rap a lot, Oh, man. Jesus, yeah. People forget about G-Rap a lot, and I don't understand why, because when you listen to G-Rap, you clearly get it. His lyrical game was masterful. Just incredible way he played with words.

Who else was my other four from that early period? I guess I would have to put... I'd drop a Cube in there. Cube, okay. And then moving forward, you know Biggie, Pac, of course, you know. Oh, man. I'm stuck right now. I can't think of all the names that I would love,

but pretty much those that, you know, Nas, of course, who I luckily got to direct one of his first videos. One Mike, right? He did One Mike his first videos. One mic, right? He did one mic. One love. One love, one love. Yeah, that Q-Tip produced, you know. So, man, just, and then to see Nas still putting out incredible music on a consistent basis.

It's like a jazz artist. It's just, look, I got something to say. I'm not pressured. It's not about the paper, if you will. I just want to express this. I'm going to drop this on you. And so's just that from his pops probably one more time and he probably get that from his pops yeah yeah olodara who used to live near me in harlem and we would talk because you know and that's that's a key thing that naz has similar to something that

rakim has both of them Nas Dab's a jazz musician. Rakim had jazz musician, a singer, I can't remember her name, but earlier connection to jazz and that sensibility I think is a big part of his flow and his dynamic as an artist. You pox first interview right first first time on national tv a lot of those cats um the first time i interviewed poc was on this set of the movie juice and um and then we held that show until the movie dropped a few months later and then we aired it you know and i'm also did a cameo in juice as myself you you know, hosting your MTV raps while the DJ battle was going on. And, yeah.

Talk about that set, Juice. That was crazy. I mean, you know, it was, you know, I mean. Classic movie to this day. Man, amazing. So many stars from that movie, too. Yeah, a lot of good stars, a lot of just really good dynamics and I'm pretty sure Tupac would definitely have excelled

in acting and clearly would have been Oscar nominated by now. His dynamism on the screen was just something, I think, like people that have been able to do it in music and then do it on the screen, it's just a rare group of people that have

been able to do that and still you know resonate to us in such a powerful way but yeah pock and i were pretty tight now this this the second time i interviewed pock once again this was pre death row i like to this one because it was the first time he'd i knew his uh background like he had a Black Panther link family-wise, and that was the first time he'd spoken about that, when I pulled that out of him, and he explained how his mother was a Panther, his father, so that fire and that awareness of what they were fighting for was a part of his consciousness, which was really interesting. He was a part of his consciousness, which was really interesting. He was a dynamic cat.

I mean, he could be the most militant, F-O-Y, fruit of Islam, Black Panther, and then spin on a dime and just be the illest thug. And that was, I think, a part of the actor in him. He could completely be those people or any other people, I'm sure, he would have gotten to play in films he would have been super effective and compelling so that was a great loss you saw that back then you know absolutely okay because it was just you talking to

him he know and then he and be just super hood and I think the persona that he remained in for most of the his public life after was the persona of Bishop in juice like that was this character that you know he wanted to come on everybody and as many people wanted wish to have been a big dude on the New York scene or strong cat that can flex like in Harlem and all that and juice was his way to do that and because come on he he wasn't that dude prior, but he stayed in that character largely, and then unfortunately got caught up in this, that, and the third

on the New York side, if you know the drama, and then went West Coast, and you would think he was born in South Central, the way he repped out there in Cali, which sold super effectively. But he was convincing in any of those genres or any of those formats he would put himself in. I know you probably got to go.

I just got a couple more questions. Why do you think commercially, because you was there from the inception, why do you think commercially the West Coast took off, it seems like to me, before the East Coast? Like I'm talking about with the massive mainstream success that we see in hip hop now. Interesting.

I just, I don't know, that's... But would you say that? Because you had Run DMC, you had LL Cool J. Yeah, I thought it was their turn. Yeah, we blew up big and dug out and planted a firm foundation. That's why this culture still rocks so hard to this day because the roots went deep.

Without anything going viral too early or people jumping out there too soon. And Jeff Rose was a monster. Snoop Dogg sold, what, 800 plus thousand his first and second week. He was like the first hip hop artist on certain magazine covers. He really was. It was something else. He was like the first hip hop artist on certain magazine covers. Like he really was.

It was something else. That was something else. And it started with NWA to me, but. Yeah, it was. It was a big thing. They had an incredible movement. It was, I think it just followed, they added on nicely to the foundation

that was laid right here in New York. And then once again, I was honored to get to direct Snoop's first video for What's My Name and turned him into a dog. And then interestingly, you know, I'm in the cannabis business now with a brand called B Noble, which grew out of a film I made, which you can see on Netflix, called Grass is Greener. And I got Snoop as in my film. And Snoop tells a story, which I didn't know that he Dre I spent that whole

summer living with Dre in Calabasas because the first day of shooting Snoop's video him performing on VIP records right after that we changed locations in Long Beach that turns into a near riot that's like not more than a year after the LA riots. So we got shut down. Dre says, Fab, I gotta finish Snoop's album. If you can chill and hang, we will get the video done. But my priority is getting this record done. So I'm like, Dre, I'm here.

Why was it a riot? Because, you know, LA is deceptive. You can be in the hood, and I'm a New York cat, so I see cats in the hood. I see cats on the corner, on the stoop. I can feel the tempo of the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying?

In L.A., you don't see cats out. So I'm scouting locations. I'm like, oh, Dre, I got this. And Dre was like, man, it's kind of crazy in Long Beach. But I'm like, man, I've been there. It's good. I didn't see the cats that really live in the hood. At the video shoot, everybody comes out. Everybody's in the hood at the video shoot everybody comes out

everybody's in the crowd so you got this set that set i got the foy on set as a security nobody i'm that's like disrespecting like a like a priest on sunday um these dudes in foy's face you know talking smack to them and my assistant director came to me I'm at video village checking the monitors sitting next to Dre they said fab you know the crew can't work I said yo Dre is it possible you know you can do to Dre some and I can't tell them cats nothing so when I realized they wouldn't listen to Dre I knew that was gonna be a delicate issue so when we finished that location we went to the next location these cats now was ready to get it in

like three four fights had started. And the police came. The helicopter swung in. They basically shut us down. So it wasn't like a riot, but it was ugly. They just had a riot. So they didn't want no massive gatherings like that. So that led me to spend the rest of that summer out there

hanging with Dre in the dog pound, getting to know them real well, seeing Dre's process in the studio, which was remarkable. And then we would get a moment to run out and get some scenes that would be other parts of the video. And then towards the end of the summer, there was a big scene that I never got to shoot because Snoop got caught up, famously, murder was the case.

I said, man, I'm outta here. This is just so much going on. It's enough, enough. I'm going back to New York. But, you know, it was interesting. Snoop tells a story that the chronic had become the hot slang word for good cannabis on the street. He told Dre, the chronic is the hot thing.

We're going to call your album The Chronic. And Dre went with it. It was just amazing to get that story. Behind the scenes and see it come to fruition. See it come to fruition and get that story years later. And then amazingly, I make this film Grass is Greener, which looks at the connection between cannabis and America's music. So from jazz and Louis Armstrong, the greatest jazz people, that was their intoxicant of

choice because, you know, you get really high on cannabis, you still can play your instrument. You know, like if you get really drunk, that's not happening. Right. And so it was an important part of that. And laying all that out, looking at all genres of music from jazz all the way to hip-hop and then looking at the criminal justice thing inspired me to create a cannabis brand called be noble and I'm really fortunate that we were able to partner we own the company we made a licensing

agreement with the biggest cannabis company in America Curaleaf we give back a 10% of what we earn to organizations. And we're in nine states, organizations helping people victimized for nonviolent cannabis offenses. And we donate money. And then we take care of the brother that we named. The story that we focused on in the film, this brother was given a 13-year sentence for two joints of weed.

And he served seven. His case was a big case. Many organizations were fighting to get this brother freedom. When he finally got a parole, we flew back down to film him walk out of prison. And then shortly after that, I got inspired to create this brand, which is doing really well, and raising awareness about these issues while selling fire weed, actually, which is a growing business now.

New York, which has now gone legal, is expanding, licenses going out. I mean, there's some bumps in the road. So that's a fascinating thing because, once again, I feel so just blessed to be working in this space, enlightening people about this powerful plant, which has been vilified as a gateway drug and categorized next to heroin in the schedule. And there's a fight now because there's obviously medical benefits. With the opioid crisis going on and hundreds of thousands of people dying,

cannabis can be used in a lot of things that they prescribe opioids for, and so it's a beneficial thing. So that's been a big thing that I've been working on now, as well as all the other creative stuff, just to share that with you. You didn't bring any? Oh, shit, baby, I got something for you. I need a little something from a car rack. We got you covered on that, baby.

Well, you got the 50 years of hip-hop podcast series. And we'll talk about that before we get up out of here. No, that's what you're here for. That's what he's here for. That's what he's here for. I want to document. Fab, you need a document. Absolutely.

Like, you yourself. Like, you have to tell your story. Because, you know, I hear it in bits and pieces. I've seen Vlad TV interviews. And, you know, of course, read the New York articles and stuff, but I'm like, you need the proper telling of your tale. Well, I'm going to soon be working on my memoir and lay it all out,

and then hopefully out of that process we can get a doctor. You know, it's funny. You already got a deal? No, we don't have a deal yet, but I got an incredible collaborator who's a very accomplished writer that I'm most likely going to work with. And we've had a few conversations. Like I had a brief convo with Questlove actually started a publishing imprint. So did I. I'd like to bid on it.

So me and Questlove can bid. Oh, absolutely. My post is called Black Privilege Publishing with Simon & Schuster. I'd definitely like to bid. Oh man, no, without question, Charlamagne. I'm sorry, I really should have known that. But also it was great having you guys on the podcast

that we did, the 50 Years of Hip Hop podcast series, which was fun. I mean, my man here, Aaron King, who worked with my very dear friend, Rest in Peace Combat Jack. That's right, Rest in Peace Combat Jack. He was on the Combat Jack show, so it was great to work with him and to really tell some of those foundational stories

about the culture. You can go anywhere your podcasts are living, any platform. That's a Black Effect production. Yes, yes. That'll be on Black Effect iHeartRadio. Dolly Bishop, who is on your team. We work together.

And, you know, it's an iHeart podcast. And that was fun to get to relive and tell some of these foundational stories. And especially with you guys, when we did the show on hip-hop radio, it really hit me. Like, you guys have gone at doing this at such an incredible level, remembering the Supreme Team, Mr. Magic, and Red Alert, and when we just had an hour or two on the weekends, and now you guys are doing this at such a major level

and sharing those stories was special to be able to remind people of these journeys that we've been on. So easy to just get caught up in what we're doing now. But the greatest thing about this 50 years is we've been able to, once again, tell the story of this journey that we've been on and how this thankfully is still going on and going strong. That's right. And the main reason, I believe, is because a lot of people stepped up and we've been able to take control. Once again, when Max Roach, my godfather, and I'd hear my dad and those guys talk about stories

in the jazz era with Miles Davis and them, they wanted to have their own labels. They wanted to be able to control things. That just wasn't happening in the 1940s and the 1950s because of the way the dynamics in America, racism and things like that. It was always a part of me to want to be able to adjust that

to a certain point and be able to put that narrative in there, which is things that I see you guys do, and I really appreciate that. I got one final question. How did you get your name? Because your name, you predate Fab Five from Michigan, clearly. So how did you get your name?

And I know that they probably got it from you. Yeah, they definitely, the Fab Five, yeah. I became a part of a graffiti crew called the Fabulous Five. They were one of the dominant groups of graffiti painters in New York, which were known for doing murals on the side of the primarily on the Lexington Avenue No. 5 train. I wasn't a part of that, but I wanted to take this whole thing to another level. And I collaborated and got down with a brother named Lee Quinones, who was a premier member of the Fab Five graffiti group. And, you know, they had kind of eased off painting most of the Fab Five, and I connected with Lee and shared these ideas about taking it to another level,

like from the subways into galleries, museums, and stuff like that. So with the blessing of Lee and the other members, I became a part of the Fab Five. So what you would tag up was, you know, you tag your name and the group you was down with. And then sometimes I would be referred to as, oh, that's Fab Five Freddie, you know what I'm saying? That's Fab Five Freddie.

And when Blondie made Rapture, it just embedded it and solidified it when she dropped my name, when she basically was like, Fab Five Freddie told me everybody's fly. And I was like, man, wow, I never thought of it as the whole thing, but that's a good look. You know what I mean? She represented it and gave me a look, and it boomed. So that's how that really came together. Last question. I know you said that but I just want you to to tell people how

difficult it was to tag trains back in the day because it wasn't it wasn't easy it's not like the train was just sitting there and y'all had eight hours to do what y'all had to do I mean y'all had to deal with police you had to do with the train moving you had to do with the the electricity in the trains like y'all had some ish to deal with. It was. So just talk about that briefly. There's a great documentary that was done the same time we making Wild Style, early 80s. There was a documentary called Style Wars that illustrates. In fact, Kay Slade, who's a young graffiti writer named Des, is featured as a young graffiti writer. And you see him in Star Wars.

Yeah, I mean, you had to know where the trains, what we call the layup, or in times when the rush hour is not running, the extra trains are placed in different areas in the city, sometimes in tunnels, sometimes at the yards. So you had to know which train you wanted to get up on, where that train was going to be, whether in a tunnel or way up in the train yards at the end of the train line somewhere. And then you had to be stealthy on some ninja type energy to get up in there because one of the objectives is also, you know, not to get caught. And so you had to have all those pieces together to get in, get out, and hopefully not get caught.

You ever got caught tagging a tree? Never. Never. But what would happen to you back when it was raging, which was not a good look, if you get caught, one of your sentences was to go wash walls. Yeah, to clean the graffiti off the tree. You put on the overalls. They give you a bucket and a bunch of chemicals. And you'd be at some platform in some station having to clean walls, feeling like, man, I got caught out here.

I'm like a herb now, you know? So it wasn't easy. It was a very difficult thing to really develop it. So that's a crazy part that we didn't like to talk about a lot because a lot of the paint was actually liberated you know it's funny when you go anywhere that sells spray paint now in New York City they still have the spray paint in a cage it's like under lock and key yep and had a lot to do with that form of expression you know that's right something I'm sorry yeah no saying you know had to get that paint it's just

amazing how something that people thought was just vandalism back in the day became something so synonymous with New York City. It gave the city character. You see it in video games, cartoons, everything. That blows my mind. You know, graffiti fonts. You can get a font and just use graffiti letters. So that's really satisfying to see that a lot of these ideas we had have really worked,

and I'm excited for the next 50. All right. Well, we appreciate you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. Fab Five Freddy. Thanks for having me, man. Fab Five Freddy. It's an honor to be up here with you guys. Honor to have you, brother.

Absolutely. It's the Breakfast Club. So I'm getting ready to head out. I'm on my way to Burning Man tomorrow. I'm a part of the Burning Man world. I'm also on the board of directors. So I will be in the Nevada desert having a blast. Once again, I know it looks a lot of weird to people if you don't know,

but it's an incredible creative experience where artists come, make incredible sculptures. Everybody tells me that. Nobody's trying to sell anything. It's just amazing work out in the desert. It's like being in a sci-fi fantasy world of creativity it's amazing and i just want to tell you man um you are the shoulders that so many of us stand on whether you are journalists whether you're a radio personality the podcasters none of us would be here without the foundation

that a fab five freddie lay back in the day man so we love you and we value you and we appreciate you my brother absolutely thank you i appreciate that so much yes sir it's the breakfast club good morning yes