The Breakfast Club - If You Knew Better: Jason Lee Knows the Truth About Influence and Fame

Episode Date: May 23, 2026

The Black Effect Presents... If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes! In this episode of If You Knew Better, Amber Grimes sits down with Jason Lee, founder of Hollywood Unlocked, for an honest conversation about personal growth, accountability, and evolving beyond public perception. Jason reflects on his journey from controversy to clarity, discussing the impact of reality TV on identity [09:09], the challenges of navigating public criticism [05:47], and how strategic chaos helped shape his business success [11:47]. He also opens up about ownership, influence, and authenticity [15:03] [17:57], while sharing insights on therapy, sobriety, and learning to regain control over his personal life [20:49]. The conversation deepens into responsibility, faith, and the importance of using influence with intention. Jason discusses relationships, accountability, and the illusion of control [29:09] [33:47], while emphasizing how resilience, purposeful partnerships, and self-awareness have transformed his outlook [37:36] [45:44]. From building a media empire to inspiring the next generation [50:00], this episode explores the balance between ambition and healing, offering a powerful perspective on growth, redemption, and becoming more intentional in both business and life.  Follow Amber Grimes on Instagram: @ambergrimes Follow Jason Lee:  @theonlyjasonlee  @hollywoodunlocked Get Amber's Newsletter on Substack Watch This Episode on Youtube Thursday at 6pm ET  Follow Amber's Book Club Get Amber's Book Club Merch  Read Amber's Favorite Books  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called, Hey Jonas.

We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy. Not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an Acapella band with their Between Songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the ice. Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know

there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the Alliance, This is, M&T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King

on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Why are we all so obsessed with romance? On the Radio 831 podcast, join us, Sanjana Basker and Tyler McCall, as we unpack all the trending tropes, fuzzy adaptations, book talk drama, and celebrity love stories with hot takes and sharp guests.

Each episode digs into what these stories reveal, about desire, fantasy, identity, and how we love now. Listen to the Radio 831 podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network and IHeartRadio. Well, there's been a few times I have crossed the line. I will say. One, I will say that I haven't talked about. The internet literally exploded. And it was Cardi B who called and just said, like, now you cross the line.

Today's guest is Jason Lee, a media personality, entrepreneur, and founder who has built one of the most talked about platforms in culture, Hollywood Unlocked. Jason opens up about becoming more intentional, how he moves, what he says, and what he truly stands on, from creating viral moments without a plan to understanding strategic chaos and building a real business behind it. This is a reflection on growth in real time. We talk about accountability, discipline, sobriety, and the people who've challenged him to level up. Plus, what it really means to invest in yourself, your platform, and your vision for the long term. And as Jason steps into his new venture with BET, he's in a different season, more focused, more grounded, and clear on what actually matters now. I'm so happy to have you here. I'm happy to be here.

I was so taken aback when you messaged me and said that you would come do the show. Of course. I saw it pop up on social media. went down the whole trope of what this was. And I was like, yo, I love pulling up for people who are, who look like me and who are out here doing their thing. And so, you know, you've been doing your thing for a while in music. So I'm like, oh, I'm trying to take my job. Let me pull up.

Never. I learned so much from you. I love your interview. So you were somebody who inspires me in the media space. So, yeah, it's just always an honor to feel the same way. Like, when I sat across from Charlemagne for his book, and I'm like, oh, Jason's coming. I'm sweating bullets. And Charlemagne is literally the guy.

Literally. That has been somebody that I've been, you know, following his, his, the way he's designed his, his brand and the trajectory of his career. So, like, I've been, like, really following him. And I followed him into therapy. I'm in the therapy. We have the same therapist now. So, like, yeah.

You obviously have this big platform that we're all aware of Hollywood unlocked, which has been amazing. But I think you do a great job of having this business, but also be in adjacently. And sharing your personal life, sharing your journey, sharing the story. You built all of this independent. which is so inspiring, but you continue to build your business and build yourself. You work on yourself. Yeah.

It's a beautiful thing. What do you hear when I talk about you growing and where you've come from? Yeah. You know, I recently did this interview with Forbes and I was saying to them that I've learned how to master code switching without switching up because like when people say, oh my God, he's changed. He's changed. No, I'm evolved.

I'm evolving. It's life, to me, is it evolved. experience and experiment where you start off as one thing and the world will say you're some of that one thing. But no, you get to do it all and be it all. So I've just been evolving. But the interesting thing is you're talking like I really feel like I'm evolving backwards because when I got into the industry, I had to give them what they wanted. They didn't want me to come in and be Jason Lee, the probation officer. Who used to work at probation? They didn't want me to be Jason Lee, the educator. I worked in education. They didn't want me to be Jason Lee, the union guy.

They wanted me to be the tea spilling internet wreckage being that I gave them. And once I gave it to them and saw the reaction and saw all of what it was doing and the money I was getting, I was like, yo, let me just keep doing more of that. Because it was that spaghetti thing, like, let me throw spaghetti at the wall and whatever sticks or when it sticks, just keep doing more of that. But then it's interesting because as I started evolving, I started feeling like, man, the people aren't going to want me to show up the way that I really am because they're not going to be able to accept that. and that's not who they fell in love with.

So I started to feel like I was enslaved to that person I created adjacently that people know. And then you get to a point where you're like, no, I just got to just live in my true authentic self. And there are days that I want to show up and burn the world down and I do in a different way than I did before. Before, there were no boundaries. There were no, well, there were boundaries.

Don't attack kids, don't out people. Other than that, everything was pow-pow. That you didn't even take grandmas out, then just kids. Grandma could get it for sure. Absolutely. And some grandmas probably got it. Yeah.

So I hear you, but I know that Jason Lee with the nasty read was always a part of who you were. Yeah. You're just saying you were more multifaceted than what you showed. Yes. Talk to me then about having to play this character, pick one character, make it larger than you. Yeah. than you and really like suppress some of the things like did you want you wanted people to know these other things about you that you have balance yes but felt like you couldn't yes i mean you can't build a

50 is probably more than 50 now 50 million dollar company from scratch and not know how to conduct business right so like yes i can give a nasty read for example recently i just went viral and i haven't told anybody talked about it but like you know i got this cease and desist letter from a basketball player Oh, man, the first time I said it was a basketball player. This person sent me a season to this or the start. Now, I'm like, I know this person that got my phone number that asked me to spend the night at the house, did not send me a season to this letter. Now, O. Jason probably would have started, I probably would have went and bought the jersey and a headband and start bouncing some balls and said, oh, I bounce these balls. I got to figure out how I want to say what I got to say.

I wouldn't even say no name because I wouldn't have to, right? That's the Jason Lee that learned how to master what they had to. people want to see. But the real message is, we don't need to play this game of let me go ahead and legally try to put a restraint on you because I'm afraid of showing up who I am, who am. My true authentic self. So the Jason leave from back in the day probably would have been doing all the extra charades and gone by or whatever. And so this time I was sitting on my couch and I just said, come on, come on. We don't want to do that. But the internet knows the Jason that lives within and it still did its thing like 1.3 million views in less 24 hours. It was

tagging in this. So I guess, you know, yeah, I know the internet. I've mastered how it works. I do create strategic chaos, have always created strategic chaos. I just think back then when doors weren't opening for me, gatekeepers keeping things close to their chest and not want me to getting people hating and trying to cancel what's uncancelable. I was just like, you know, you, okay, fuck it. I'm just going to kick all these doors down and I'll take names later and, you know, whatever. So tell me about that one chaotic moment

where you maybe said, I did too much. I gave the people a little bit too much of what they wanted. Well, there's been a few times I have crossed the line. I will say. One I will say that I haven't talked about was I was in a podcast and I didn't have a lot of people around me that would say,

damn, you shouldn't have said that, right? And so I would just say, and I mean, say anything I wanted. And at the time, I felt like, I just felt some type of way about Ariana Grande. And I said, basically what I was, what I said came off as misogyny and it was, and the internet literally exploded. And it was Cardi B who called and just said,

like, now you cross the line. You got to go back and fix that because you can't. That wasn't right. you're better than that. And so although nobody was around me at the time I said it or edited it and it went out, you know, Cardi was able to check me to go back and fix it. So I looked at it. I'm like, you know, I got five sisters.

I probably would have felt some way if somebody did that to my sister. So she didn't need it. I didn't need to deliver it that way. And so I did go back and apologize. But what I learned was, you know, and I made the mistakes many more times because when you're like on live radio or you're at the breakfast club and you just say something. It's like, that left my mouth. It ain't, you can't take it back. You know, do I regret it?

Nah, because I had to go through these experiences to learn the power of my platform, the power of the tongue, being responsible and owning it, right? And that it's okay to apologize when you cross the line because people do want to see you're human and know you're not just an emotionalist tree that don't care about other people's feelings. So, yeah, I've made mistakes, but I've learned from it.

There was a moment on TV that people remember. And I think you would say wanted to define you by, and what you did not allow yourself to be defined by this moment. Talk to me about that love and hip hop moment. Yeah. Yeah, that was the drink toss, the famous drink toss. I mean, I think the thing for me was that, you know, there were so many different doors I was trying to get into in the industry. Nothing would let me in. The only thing that opened was love and hip hop, which wasn't a show that I had thought, because they had already had its first season where I was like, oh, that is not the environment for me, because I don't know how to act like I'm not on TV. Like, I just am really in it,

whatever it is. And so when I saw it, it was funny because Queen Latipa, who I had known since I was 15, and Floyd Mayweather, who had become really close to, I went to both of them and said, loving hip-hop is going to let me do the show. What do you think? And Queen Latipa was like, nah, like, you're better than that. That's not for you. Don't do it. And then, Floyd Mayweather was like, you know, three people are going to tell you not to do it, a hater that don't want to see you do it, a person that don't need that door to open for them, and somebody that's already got it. And if that door is open for you, take it.

And I remember going, okay, I'm going to take it. So I took it. And when I went in, I run in just truthful and honest and open and said, look, I'm going to give you guys everything you want. I'm going to read people. I'm going to make their business my business. I won't give you my relationships because that's, That's private, never going to ever, never be on TV intimate with anybody or open or expose

that part of me. And then the other part was, I don't want to shoot with this person. The first scene was with that person. I didn't know, though. That's how TV works. They produced you. And I didn't know. They produced it.

Well, of course, I had the reaction. What I learned in the experience was a couple of things. One, I had to learn that I went into the show not wanting to show my intimate relationships It was because I didn't want to be put in a box of the gay guy, even though they did that anyway. You know, because I think TV, especially mainstream TV, does a really horrible job of showing what being black and gay looks like. We're not a monolith. We're everything from me to Billy Porter. Hey, Billy.

But what I learned in that experience was a couple of things. One, that I had to be completely comfortable in whatever experience I find myself in, whether it's shot. showing up in a show where combat and conflict is the chaos it creates in order to be successful. So I have to show up as much as much authentic itself, but also be very aware of what I'm doing. And then also I have to be very comfortable and confident with all of who I am, no matter if there's a camera rolling or not. And so that experience. And then third, I also learned that, like, we're all worthy of redemption. Like, and how do you navigate through the chaos?

So I had to like teach myself how to, from the minute that the drink was tossed, I knew I had six months until it came out. I had six months of preparation for the world seeing me differently than I saw myself because they saw this moment. And so I just rode the wave. You know, I let people hate me for a couple years. I mean, it was the hate. And then when I saw that that was in, I said, okay, let me rise up to meet them. So I gave them more chaos. And then it became normal.

And then I slowly started turning it down. And they came down with me because the advice that Queen Latifah told me was get the culture in the headlock and then take them on a journey with you as you evolve. And that's what I've done. So now there are some people that just in the airport the other day, oh my God, I loved you on loving hip-hop. I'm like this 11 years ago. Can you actually talk about what that experience is to show up somewhere and decide I'm going to be on TV and I'm going to give them what they want? What do they want? What are they looking for?

And how do you, if you could, try to maintain some balance. understanding what you understand now that people are going to look at you a certain way. But also, is this your big opportunity? How do you... You know, I was having this conversation with the artist the other day, and they were saying, and I was saying, like, why don't you... They were asking me, how should they come out as a bisexual artist? How, what does that look like?

I'm like, well, there was Frank Ocean. There have been examples. It's just, what are you? comfortable doing. They were saying, well, I don't really know how to navigate that because I don't really see how people will buy into me as a brand. I'm like, well, don't sell yourself as a brand. Just sell your music. Sell your art. What does your art look like? What is your art supposed to translate? And I feel like when I went into love and hip hop, the first conversation I had with Mona was when the network said, we want to own 10% of Hollywood unlocked. I was like, no, because I'm building a

billion dollar brand. So I don't want to give you anything. But I need to be able to promote my brand. Every event that I have is going to be about Hollywood Unlocked. Every scene that I start is going to start with Hollywood Unlocked. I need to be able to interview people on the show for Hollywood Unlocked uncensored podcast. So they agree to that, but they were like, okay, well, if you don't give us any percent, we're only going to give you a thousand dollars an episode that you show up in. So the first season, I only made $3,000 and I shot for six months exclusive. So I say that and say, I went in knowing what I wanted to accomplish. I went in knowing I have an exit strategy. I have a deck that outlines day one and the day I sell it. I know all the verticals I want to build. I had the

impact awards idea way back then, but it was blogger brunch because it was my idea wasn't as big as it was. I wasn't dreaming as big until I got in it. It was like, oh, this brunch is cool. But what if I went to the Beverly Hilton where Clive Davis does his party? And I make a better party than him. And I did. So yeah, I think it's been like one of those things where I went in knowing what I want to do. I don't know that people know what they want to accomplish anymore. I just want to go and be famous. Nothing worse than being somebody super famous and broke. And I never wanted to be that. So ownership from day one was always important to me. Ownership, freedom and being able to do what I want to do on my own terms. A long time ago, my first day working for boo, he told me the first day

you get a job, you need to be thinking about your last day. What are you going to do when you, if you get fired, if you quit, whatever it is, you need to make sure you've accomplished what you set out there to do or you just leave the company and now you're looking for another job and you didn't even, your resume didn't even get any better to get you to the next place. And so I have gone into a lot of opportunities exactly what you're saying, okay, cool, I'm working here. This is what I want to do here. And once I do that thing, I'm like, you know, if it's great, I'll stay.

But once I've accomplished what I came to accomplish, now I've been here for too long. There's nothing else for me here. It's time for me to evolve and go on to the next thing, which is why I've never been scared to leave a job. And so to hear you say that as the advice of like, hey, I know y'all kids want to be on TV. I know you want to be famous. I know whatever.

Why? Right. I don't think that people are asking themselves why. Is it because you were sheltered as a kid, didn't have no love, weren't popular? And now this thing, this drug of social media is making you feel a certain way. Because Melissa Ford used to always say fame is a drug. And most people needed to get that hit in order to feel like they were living.

For me, everybody knows I don't need to be famous. I want influence. My Y has always been very clear. Impact, influence, and making a shitload of money and just having total freedom and ownership. And so I never went into loving hip-hop saying, I need this show. I treated that show like I didn't need it. I wanted it, but I didn't need it. I could have went and found somebody at the Abbey.

Hey, let me give you $50 an episode. You're my boyfriend like the rest of them did. I ain't doing that. I don't need to fake love, fake act like we together, go give me a girlfriend and a boyfriend. Now I'm in a, now I'm going to, you know, because the way reality TV works is, you know that camera time will drive the insane story you come up with.

But now you're enslaved to that. The thing that I'm enslaved to is just being truly authentic myself. With Hollywood Unlocked, I know there's going to be an exit at some point. And this is the important piece. Like, as you've gone through your career journey and I'm going through mine, I'm not, whatever I'm in is not defunded. finding who I am. I had to tell somebody yesterday in City Hall, they were telling me basically you're, you're just way to beyond the scope of what a council member should be. You're acting like

you're this and you're that. I said, the craziest thing is this chair didn't define Jason Lee. Jason Lee is defining the chair. Just so you know, more people knew about me than they knew about Stockton. So would just be very clear, I'm never going to fit in whatever box you want to put me in. People that go into reality TV and don't have a plan is simply setting themselves up to fail. You're going in, you're going to get famous, then you're going to be broke and then be slave to an image that you won't be able to sustain. So why put yourself through all of that? It's not going to work in the long run. Hey, it's us to Jonas Brothers.

And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, new? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to it.

We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name, Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember. I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Well, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers.

This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, where people could call in and say, hey, Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys.

Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jared Adano.

You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet. Help! But there's so much more to me than that. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, hope from a hypocrite,

I'll be changing lives, helping people in need with my sage advice and thoughtful solutions. Sike, I'm a comedian. I'm not qualified to give good advice. Join me and my comedian friends as we riff rant and recommend some of the most legally dubious advice known to man.

If I'm calling you, even if you're on your phone, let it ring twice. One ring is too scared. Oh, cream of chicken suit. Hey, cream a chicken suit. This is Help from a Hypocrite, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrite as part of the Mike Coultera podcast network

available on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They hold and Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King,

recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this. At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment.

To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What is the difference between influence and fame? Influence is when you can actually move stuff. Fame is when you are just disrupting the space and you're a bunch of conversations. I feel like, you know, again, I'm not going to say names because there's people out there. A lot of people are famous. I went to a red carpet event. I was invited by somebody to go to a premiere.

So I got to the premiere. I walked in. I didn't want to be there because I don't even go to premieres. I don't want to be nowhere, really. I'm here because I want to be here. So I get to the premiere and I'm like, where's my seat at? And my seat was in Roqueue. I don't even know where Ro Q is.

And that's not even ego. That's just I don't sit in Ro Q. I mean, C, D, E. Okay. F, now we're fucking around and you don't find out. But F, fuck that. G, got to go. H.

Hell, no. Jay, you jackass put me over here. K. Okay. L, let me get the fuck out. Now, it's getting worse. I'm waiting. M. motherfucker.

Did you put me over here? No. No. Nah. Oh, shit. No. P, fuck-ass, punk. Okay, so it's getting worse as it gets higher.

So anyway, Q, I was like, y'all, I'm out. I'm out. And they were like, oh, no, no, no, we found you a better seat. I said, oh, okay, okay, because I was literally at the door. Walk back, Jay. Jay, y'all have a good night. And I left. So I just, I built influence where my influence matters,

and I never allow other people to forget that. And that's not ego. That's just, I've earned that. And my team, they'll tell you, I'll be on like, what are we doing? And part of that, though, is, as part of the team, always pushing people to acknowledge the influence that I've been able to amass. I know that any celebrity I want to reach, I know how to reach them.

All I got to do is go on Instagram. They're going to get it. So that's influence versus, you know, somebody that's going to go run against traffic just for the sake of going viral for one moment and then we forget you the next week. I will be putting the Jason Lee alphabet. I can go all the way to Z. I know you can. When you do cause chaos with no plan. do you believe you can still come back from that?

Is there a way to get that redemption, like you said, and to continue to evolve? And how do you do that if you went in, not focused on a strategy, just the opportunity? Yeah, you can always pivot, but you really have to be dialed into your why at some point. You can pivot at any moment. Yeah, I didn't go in thinking I was going to have this chaotic moment.

I knew I was going to go in and create chaos with the chaos with my business, but I didn't see that chaotic moment happening. once it did as part of my overall plan. I'm like, how do I go from this crash out moment into crushing it in my business? Because there's nobody's going to like me from that. And Floyd Mayweather said, if they say you're all of that, just go be a savage. Fuck it. Who care?

Just go fuck it. And I, fuck it became a mentality for a long time where it got to a point where I was like, damn, I got to know what I give a fuck about now because I had just said, fuck it so much that I didn't know. And so there has been a journey where I went from like complete chaos that was unplanned to strategic chaos to managing a library of chaos to then like controlling the chaos. And now the chaos is different. I don't have to go and blow up the internet like I used to. Now that I am an elected official as the vice mayor of Stockton, kids are watching me.

educators are watching me, parents are watching me. And I'm trying to balance politics and pop culture in a way where I still stay authentic to who I am, but I also create the type of impact that I want to today. You said something important a little while ago about not code switching and how you said you're not letting your seat in the district define you. Code switching, but not switching up. But not switching up. That is very important because I feel like now,

There's no room for anybody to just do one thing or be one thing. Like, the economy's bad. But it's very inspirational. I think for others to see that you can be an entrepreneur, you can do this, you can do that, and you can even go and run your whole, the whole city, the town that you grew up in. But I think most people would then say, I got to, you know, straighten up and fly right and do this. And then ultimately end up not being themselves. Not with Donald Trump kidnapping presidents, bombing leaders, killing them.

their whole families, getting $400 million planes donated from the Saudis, then flying, tearing up the White House. He tore, we don't let our kids go and tear people's house this motherfucker went in and tore up the East Wing. I have pictures in the East Wing. Can't find him anymore because the East Wing is gone. And he's going to build a ballroom so people can come and dance to the tune of whatever he's selling democracy for.

So, like, yeah, when you look at that, why can't I have an opinion about someone's music? Like, why is the standard for black people so higher than that? than other folks. If the president of the United States can call women fat, get found guilty of sex assault, say that a group of black kids of Central Park Five should be murdered when they were not guilty. Say the first black president was not even American. Can be married to an immigrant, then turn around and say every other immigrant that don't happen to look like that one has to go back to their country. now birth or rights or, I mean, like, this is, gas cost me $130 the other day because this motherfucker.

So I just think, like, why is it shocking that I'm the vice mayor? He's the president. We have to get out of our minds that we can't be anything we want to be. We could be anything we want to be. You know, and Donald Trump, I'll give him the credit, has shown us that we can't be anything we want to be, including pure evil. I'm not pure evil. I could be messy, but I ain't evil. How are you more responsible with your role and understanding that I can be whoever I want to be?

I can be all of the Jason Lee's in one, but I'm not doing those things. I'm more responsible with the position that I have and the people that I'm responsible for. Well, I'm not at City Hall saying I need this job. I don't need it. The people of my city know I don't need to be there doing this. I don't. I did a video once where I said, because the mayor, she's white. and I had supported her during the campaign.

I said she cares more about our penises than our policies. And she played it at city council. I said, can you rewind that and turn it up? Because I don't know if people can hear it. I need them to hear what I said. And then when she played it, I said, if you see me say it, I said it. I stand on what I say. I'm not running from that.

And then I used it as a moment to say, as black people, we know how you love our culture. We know how you love our men or our women. We know how you objectify, as sexualizes. But when it comes to standing with us in the fight that we have to, go through every day, where are you? You can't be found. So I didn't say it that way, because I knew that delivery I gave was going to get, it played at City Hall. So it was strategic chaos that I baited her into, she walked into it, and then I walked her right through the flames. And then when it was done, the people took that clip and put that out. So it just

only made it even worse. Yeah, so I'm very aware, like, when I'm in it, like, anything, I'm not going to be enslaved to City Hall like I felt enslaved to the chaos people had falling in love with because for a while I felt like I had to keep showing up being viral Jason in order to be Jason. I'm like, no, I don't have to be because I'm still making, I make the same amount of millions of dollars that I'm going to make without doing that. So why am I doing that? I'm doing that because I feel like that's who I have to be to make people happy. And I was like, nah, I don't have to do that. So I just stopped. And it's interesting because the other day I was in the airport and somebody goes, man, you used to read the hell out of people. And I go, damn,

this person, does this person think I fell off? Does this person think that I'm not that guy? But when I go back and look at the clips of who that guy was, I'm like, damn, who was that guy? That guy was a fool. You know, I miss him sometimes. But yeah, I can't. It's not the energy I'm on right now.

What part has therapy played in that for you? Sobriety. So I'm almost in three years of being sober. Sobriety was important to me because when I started therapy, Charlemagne, you know, me, Charlemagne and Tiffany Hage, we all shared the same therapist. We were at Tiffany's bar mitzvah and bar mitzvah and Charlamagne said to me, he says, why you always look mad? I said, nigga, what you mean? Why I always look mad?

Now I'm mad because you're judging me, right? And he goes, you always look mad. You need to go to therapy. And I felt like he was judging me. He would always tell me when I go breakfast. You need to go to therapy. You need to go to therapy. Well, one day Tiffany picked me up.

Tiffany came and met me at a party. And I had my sprinter. And so she got in with a guy. And she was like, oh, where we're going to go? I said, we're going to the Abbey. So we went to the Abbey. We got shit-faced drunk. This is when her and I both drank.

And this guy was there, and he's this straight guy just sitting there watching us. I mean, it was a zoo. Well, I found out that's the therapist. So he saw me in my crash hour. And I thought, man, he's going to judge me. So I go to my first session with him and I go, all right, Elliot, like, what's up? What's wrong with me? And he said, I don't think anything's wrong with you.

I just want to know what you want to work on. I'm like, oh, okay, so not judging me. I said, well, I kind of want to work on, like, not partying this hard. because I would spend like 50 grand a month on partying, drinks, whatever. And so he said, okay, well, try to go out without drinking. So I went out without, try to fail. Then he said, okay, well, try to go out and have one drink. So I know every review, you can't have one drink.

You have one drink, you go to sleep, you have two drinks, you go at the whole bottle. So it was like, I couldn't find a balance. Then it dawned on me. I wasn't in control of it. And then I had a birthday party where I super crashed out, and I was like, okay, that's it. And I literally stopped and having a drink since. So therapy's just been kind of like that ongoing check-in, like, how you doing? How you, what's going on?

And we work on whatever I want to work on in that moment. I want to talk to you about this because I stopped drinking when I turned 21. Oh, congrats. Thanks. Well, we don't have to age you, but that's a while ago. That's okay. Then, over a decade. Yeah, people know.

I have to remind people all the time. It's like a new thing for everybody all the time. After 15 years, like, I'm good, y'all. But it is probably something that has been. made me the most discipline. I owe all my discipline to that. And it's made me the most honest and most clear. And I get that from you right now because I'm an old season not drinking bet. And I go, oh, yeah, that's it. If I go somewhere and I'm not having a good time, I know I'm not having a good time when I leave. Makes you very honest. And when you do have a good time and

you're not drinking, you're like, man, this is a fucking good time. And I love that clarity. And you said the word control. I do just want to touch on that. You know, I'm not telling anybody they can't drink or what to do. But I also don't know if people are aware of the power of having control of yourself and your life and your decisions and your night. Everyone does not have that experience. So can you share with that? When we were going out, we had to have a driver for the sprinter because we had to have a sprinter because there were at least six or seven of us.

We had to have at least two security, two to three, because you. you had to manage the entire environment. I used to wear tons of jewelry. I was going out looking like a rapper, okay? Hundreds of thousands of dollars of jewelry, spending thousands and thousands of dollars going out. And then there was processes to when we got home, make sure we have all the credit cards,

make sure we didn't lose the ID, make sure we take off all the jewelry. If I brought somebody home or two, make sure that all of my properties in the safe and that nobody steals it, all my guns are put away. So, like, it became a thing where everybody around me was managing this chaotic experience. Well, I thought about it. I'm like, yo, this is, not only am I out of control,

I'm now forcing my friends to help me stay in control. Once I got sober, I realized you're not just in control you. You can control everybody else too. You can control every room you go in. You can control the day you're going to have. You can control the day the people that interact with you are going to have. You are in more control of everything, your business, your bottom line, you're saving money. So the discipline for me became a challenge.

And once I mastered it, people go, oh, when are you going to go back to drinking? I have no desire to go back to drinking. I'm not going to say I'm enslaved to being sober because to those people who are drinking, like, do what you want to do. But I do run across a lot of younger people in their 20s because I don't know how you were, but in my 20s, I was 30s, 40s, I was burning and I'm drinking. Just a few years ago, I was a mess. I tell people in your 20s, have a good time.

Have a great time. But had I known better or if I would have known sooner, I would have done all this sooner, so I would have had more years, but I don't regret it because I am where I am today because of all of it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad that you said that because you even brought in the control. Like, you literally, you can control everything. Everything.

Everything. Yeah. And there's a lot of people around you all the time that are very out of control and you really see it when you're in control. Think about when you own Hollywood Unlocked and you're having a bad day because you went out and burnt out. And now you're telling, you're seeing things and now you're driving the conversation that's driving thousands of people to talk about something. Like it's also being more responsible with the platform that you know could change somebody's day or life. Because we have had to do things and say things because of what's happening in a way that has probably caused some of the reputational harm that I had earlier.

Right. Like I love a lot of people. And when I see some stories, I'm like, oh. Now, I know we can say this in a way that's not going to hit the way that it's going to hit, but fuck it. You know, let's put it out. Well, now we're way more responsible, way more in tune, way more in control. And also, we're made way more thoughtful in how we approach stories and how we approach talent in our relationship management system is better than just fuck it. Like, let it fly and we'll do it later.

Where we used to do that. Now it's, you know, we will call and check in, hey, you know, so and so, this is out here, what's happening. we do try to make sure we're sharing their perspective. You've checked them with me. Yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, because it's just the responsible thing to do is disingenuous to have a relationship and then not really care when it benefits you. You know, that's kind of crazy.

Well, one, I want to say I'm proud of you. Thank you. It gets easier as you go. I don't think about it. It's not even a thought about do I want to have a drink or get drunk? No, but three years is fucking amazing. Yeah. And like, congratulations.

Thank you. And I'm very happy. for you to have the experience of control, clarity, and discipline. Yeah, I'd have been that vice mayor on the news. And, you know, when you're elected, it hits different. You know, like, I could make shade room and neighborhood talk right now. I can hit complex. When you're an elected official, you hit that news that, you hit that news in a different way

where they're like breaking news. I don't ever want that. I don't want it. You know, when I drive, even when I'm home and I'm driving, I see the police, I'm over the police department over the city, I still am looking at them like, don't pull me over. My tags are good. I don't want no smoke because that idea of having a mugshot as an elected official, you are very thoughtful.

Very mindful. Very well. Your future. And I think that that is what's missing sometimes for our young 20-year-olds that are just having a good time. You're going to grow up. Yes. And I want everybody to have a wonderful time.

I had a wonderful time. you need to be thoughtful always that you're going to make it to your 30s. And some people don't believe that they will. If you're going to make it to your 30s, you're going to make it to your 40s, going to make it to your 50s. Who do you want to be? What do you want to do? Like you said, ask yourself why, because I hear you now saying, I'm this type of vice mayor, but I ain't that type of vice mayor. And I have a friend right now who's, you know, he's late 20s, not late late late, but mid to late 20s.

And he's figured out what he wants to do. He's an athlete. And he loves to party. So when we go out, I'll let everybody come out. I'll get the bottles for people to drink who are drinking. And he loves to get wasted. And the next day, I'll just be like, like, okay, I don't want to be an enabler while I'm getting you drunk all the time.

But, like, why do you feel you need to get drunk all the time? Like, I used to be that person. So I want you to come out, have a good time. But I also want you to come to brunch or come just hang out at the crib. or just go over here with us, but we don't, why are you doing that all the time? Now, he's very, I'm not going to get drunk. I'm going to have one drink. So I see the influence I'm using back to influence and the responsibility.

I do see the influence I'm having on people. And I'm telling, look, I'm not telling you you have to be sober like me. I rent, that ran its course for me. You're still in your process and having a good time in your 20s. I had a great time in my 20s. But just be, if I had known better then, I would be more responsible. And so I could see it happening in a way where I'm not forcing him to do it or judging him for due. I'm just saying, like, as a friendship, like, why are you doing all that, you know?

Yeah. I mean, I sometimes that's all it takes is like one friend to ask you a thoughtful question. It's not judgment. It's not, you know, this is what's going to happen. You have no idea what's going to, what someone's future holds. But I don't know that there's a lot of people that are surrounding themselves or people that hold them accountable or are willing to ask them. Have you ever thought about this? But it's okay to let you.

friends know you care about them, you know, like just hanging out with me because my credit card is never going to get declined. Doesn't show me that you actually care about me. Like, when you're around me and you say, I think you just hurt that person's feelings. Or, you know, that fan that wanted a photo, you know, my friend was over there. He'll tell me, do you ever see how you like look at people sometimes? And I'm like, shut up. I'm always nice. What the fuck you're talking about? And he's like, that. But then, you know, one time we were in the elevator. and, you know, I was having a bad day, and this person was waiting to tell me

that they wanted to cook for me. And I was like, okay, so I got there. So this person right here said that they want to cook for you, and I said, I don't, today is not, I'm not having a good day, I don't want to talk for you. And I got in the elevator, and I was kind of looking down, and the person got in the elevator,

and it was real quiet, and everybody was just hoping that nobody said anything. And she was, oh, my God, I can't wait. I want to cook for you. And the door opened, I said, no. And I just walked out. And then I felt, bad when I did that because it was like literally it was so quiet in there that I know that person

built up a lot of courage to say I want to cook for you and and it was a nice gesture I want to cook for you and I was having my moment and being whatever still in my drinking phase and I but I wasn't drinking that day and I just as soon as the door opened and they go I really want to cook for you and I just turned and said no and I just walked out and I didn't even look back I then went back and apologize I was like you know sorry about that um and then found out out it was my friend's mom. I'm like, oh my God, this is really bad. So I had to call him and apologize. Anyway, so I've learned, and I have good friends around me who constantly check me because we all are going to have a bad day. Not drinking or not. We're just all going to have a bad day,

especially when you're an entrepreneur or you're in a relationship or you're in pursuit of a relationship. You're going to have a bad day. It just doesn't give you license to make somebody else have a bad day. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, huge news? We've created our own podcast. called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast?

Well, we didn't invent it. We just contributed to a... We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide range of podcasts. We're starting a trend. But this one's extra special. So how did we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. Oh, we were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band. Before Jonas Brothers was... This is how you guys remember it going to. don't? Yes. I have a very different memory of this. We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas, and then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite, unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends, me and hilarious. guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, S&L's Mikey Day and headwriter, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes.

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The story I've told myself about love or relationships can then shake my behavior. and that can lead me to sabotage the possibility of connection. This Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast deeply well with Debbie Brown and explore the journey of healing, self-discovery,

and returning to yourself. We explore higher consciousness, emotional well-being, and the practices that help you find clarity, peace, and self-mastery in a world that can feel overwhelming. The world is becoming lonelier. We're not becoming more social. connected. We're becoming more individualized, but we

actually meet people in connection. If you've been searching for a soft place to land while doing the work to become whole, this podcast is for you to hear more. Listen to deeply well with Debbie Brown from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewise franchise. The drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just. watching it, I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this.

At the end of the day, when people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't know if this is a new thing, but you're very good at holding yourself accountable or hearing your friends when they're holding you accountable. I'm not perfect to hold myself accountable. I have people, I will hold myself accountable sometimes. But I have everybody around me holds me accountable in their own way.

They know, like, I know when I have hit the asshole stage in any conversation. My publicity team, I know when I've hit the asshole wall. I'll give an example. My last publicity firm that I was with, there was this one person that I had on my team that I really, really liked. I think we took a trip to Stockton. This was when I was living in L.A. And I was going to Stockton for an event or something. We had got a jet, flew up there or whatever.

And I was a complete asshole. That person quit my team when we got back. I said, where that person go? I was like, damn, I really liked her. But I had lost that person. There are moments where I've lost things because of how I've behaved. and it will rain me back in. Or there were people who they know how to ask certain questions.

And it reminds me of when I worked with Ye. Yay had nobody around him but me. And maybe one other person that would say, like, you can't talk like that. You can't act like that. That's not cool, you know. And I always tell people, out of everybody he dealt with, he only disrespect to me one time. We only had to have that conversation one time.

But I saw that I had to hold him accountable because there was nobody else on him accountable. I never want to be that. And I'm not shading him. I'm just saying you get to a level of success, fame, fortune, influence, impact. And it's like, I don't want to be away from that because I need to gravitate towards that so I can get some of it. No, I want people around me who say, I will leave if you act like this. Or I will not be around you if you're going to behave that way or shoot people like that.

And I have friends that do that. You've said a couple of times here, which I also respect that you've said, okay, cool, my friends have hold me accountable. Somebody told me, and I apologized. everybody can't turn their ego down for that. What does that look like for you to balance that ego out and say, you know what? I need to like this right.

Life will sit your ass down. What you're talking about? What? I've seen. Life will life with you. I always joke around. This is the thing I think people that don't know me. When you do get to know me, you're going to see,

when you come to my homes, all I'm playing is gospel music most of the time. We're referencing some Bible scripture. I always say, touch not my anointed, do my profit is no harm. And I always say it to my colleagues at the council because they all be failing. Like, you just lost this, you lost that. You over here, you know, you ran out of Ozimic. Things ain't working out for you. It's because you're trying to do his profit harm.

You're intentionally trying to hurt me. And my friends will tell you it ain't even like voodoo. It's literally manifestation of God. I will literally say something. I'm at a party in Miami. true story, party. I look at the clock. It's 4 o'clock. I'm tired. I'm over it. We leave the party. We get in the car. We drive it down the street.

I'm like, man, Rihanna's not, this is before we were friends. She ain't responding to my DM. Why is I'm out here looking at she ain't respond to my DM? I don't have her numbers. She ain't responded. She doesn't. I'm like, I want some Doritos at 4 in the morning. Walgreens. Let's go in here and get some Doritos. I pull in the parking lot. I got a truck full of people. I tell my friend was over there and another friend. Can you go in and get some Doritos? I'm away in the car.

they go in, they're like, Rihanna's in here. I swear to God. I'm like, what? There's no way. There's nobody else in this Walgreens, but Rihanna and Rocky and their security. Nobody. So I walk in, I'm like, really? That's how I got to find you.

That's how we became locked in. That happens to me all the time. I had a dream the other night. I'm not going to get into the dream, but it was a really bad nightmare. And I woke up and I told my friend like, this is a nightmare I had. Later that day, the thing connected to the nightmare happened. So I really feel like when I say touched out my anointed, do my profits no harm, that's really real. When I say warning comes before destruction, I repeatedly say it over and over.

I tell people, warning comes before destruction, watch, and then the next thing, something critical happens. And that's because I really feel like I'm walking to my purpose. I really feel like I am connected literally to the source of every blessing that I've gotten. Every bad thing that's happened. Brother getting murdered. Tragedy. Would I be where I am right now without that experience? Probably not because that gave me purpose.

that showed me like I can survive, that showed me that, like, I know what the worst feeling in the world feels like. I know what it feels like. There's nothing anybody can do or take for me that's going to ever make me feel that. So never, there's nothing. There's nobody else on Earth that can die right now that will make me feel of that. Because since I felt that level of pain and survived it, I, like, know what it's going to feel like, so I'm prepared for it.

I know I'm going to survive it. And I know that for a while it's going to be weird or hurt for. and awkward or whatever, and it's not going to ever be the same, but you will be fine. My faith is something that I stay true to. My book, God must have forgotten about me, is a testament of the fact that God has not forgotten about you. He's literally showing you what trials, tribulations, and triumph is, faith over fear. He's showing you you're going to go through shit.

Sorry, God. But if you just stay steadfast in your faith and focus, you're going to be okay. And throwing the drink, it'll be okay. Mama on drugs and foster care, I'm going to be okay. Brother laying here dead, I'm going to be okay. Whether I win another election ever in my life or not, I did it already. I'm good. When I sell Hollywood unlocked, if it's a billion dollars or $500 million or $2 million,

that was what God wanted me to get. Now, I'm going to keep going in pursuit of whatever it is that I feel like I'm supposed to be doing. But I ain't going to be broken famous. That is never going to be. I'm never going to be broken again. I'm sorry. Ain't no way. I can't be broke.

Is fame required to be influential? Or can you start with the goal of being influential? So one of my friends is Robert F. Smith. Do you remember when that guy paid all those students? Yes. Okay. That's Robert Smy. So he's not famous as if he walked in the room and sat down right here. You'd be like, I know who that is.

But he's highly influential. He's at Davos with all the millionaire billionaires of the world, all the world leaders. He is the second wealthiest black man in the country. So yeah, you can be influential. You can go to a graduation, give a speech, and pay off everybody's student loans. That's influence. You can just see, they had HBCU Fest where he's always uplifting black voices, black culture. He's invested in earn your leisure, created a space for them with their conference. He's heavily invested in black. Him, Richie Lou, me. We're all connected in the sense that we're all trying to drive real influence and power for black culture and black people and black voices,

right? But he's not famous. I look at him online sometimes like, okay, you know, you're making the cute videos and all that. But are you doing that like Druski? So that way people say he needs to be on Netflix because Drusky started out with the sketches and comedy and now he's he's dominating culture right now in his lane. And so yeah, I think that you don't have to have fame to get influence, but if you want fame, know what you want it for and build that in order to have influence. Because when Druski's done, you know, doing what he's doing now, he may want to be behind the camera, but you have to have the influence of moving the industry and people seeing your value. Tyler Perry started out as Medea in the plays, and then he became the owner of

the largest studio in the business, and he's Tyler Perry now. So I don't think he wanted to be Medea to be famous. I think he wanted to build a successful tour in the Bible Belt and take those people on a journey with him and now that Lecorea is number one show on Netflix. Can you talk about the importance of ownership? Obviously, it's something very important to you. I'm not sure that that message comes across all the time, even when someone is just making skits or just doing something for fun, that there has to be a point then where you care that you own something at the end of the day. people say, oh, you need to own something so you could pass it on.

I ain't have no kids. I ain't even going to get foster kids. I can't pass this on to my dogs. So I'm not building something to pass on per se. I just don't like people telling me what to do. And I don't like people telling me the limits of what I'm able to do. And I like being able to do what I move to do. And in order to do that, you have to be in control of your own thing.

Even if you are, and I always say to my friends, like some of them who, have had successful careers working at institutions they don't own. You're doing all that to build their bottom line. Even if you make $5 million a year doing it, when they're done with you, that $5 million is over. And you've got to go find your next $5 million. So your lifestyle is going to be predicated on what they want to feed you. So you can do that.

And I understand doing it. But why not do it to save up to go and build your own thing? Because when you realize you really don't need nobody, all you got to do is put your head down, find a good team, work your ass off, stay dedicated to it. And that foundation, once you build the floor and then you start building the walls, all of a sudden, damn, you're in a skyscraper. You didn't even know because you was so far in the work that you looked up

and now you're in the penthouse looking down at Wendy or whoever that person is. Y'all can edit this shit later. I'm just saying power of ownership critical. Now I say that knowing I have employees watching my interviews, right? But I also tell them how far do you want to go? Because I'm going to keep elevating. So now that I'm getting in production, now that I'm getting into acquisitions, do you see yourself as the director of digital or do you see somebody as, do you see yourself as the vice president of digital? Do you see yourself as somebody who director of digital or now are we building a joint venture to go out and create documentaries?

So what are we doing? I'm open to partnering with my team and helping them get their own. And right now I'm looking at equity in this thing that I'm building for some of those have been with me from the beginning because I feel like you built this from the ground up with me. deserve to eat too. And that is why I think God's going to keep blessing me because I don't need to be the only billionaire. I do want to be a billionaire because being a millionaire is lonely. It's like this lies.

It's just I want to be in the billionaire boys club, you know? And I want everybody to get it. So, but ownership, man, is freedom. It really is truly freedom. And I feel like we all got the hot sauce. We just got to turn the noise down. Stop TikTok and all day long. Maybe a couple hours you're going to do it, structure your time, compartmentalize your time.

But like, what documentaries are you watching? Go back and watch Warren Buffett's documentary. I learned a lot from that. You know, start learning from other people. I watch Charlemagne, what he's been able to do. And then I look at other people who are trying to do what Charlemagne is. Like, you're not authentic because you try to do what Charlemagne did. What is your thing?

So, yeah, ownership is important. I love that and the people that you name because you're, all of the audacity and the confidence that you have is because nobody can tell you what to do. Not even Charlemagne. I'd be talking shit to him too. I love Charlemagne, though. But we talk in a way and I look up to him. And I love the fact that I've gone from somebody who's looked up to Charlemagne.

And now I'm his peer and there's mutual respect. I'm not submissive to Charlemagne. He's not to me. We share ideas. We share disagreements. We share resources. And it's not competitive. I celebrate him when he wins.

He celebrates me when I win. That truly is what Black Excellence. is where you're not looking at somebody and saying, man, I don't want that person to be better than me. And I will say, I feel in our culture, we do a really good job of going, I want everybody to win, but I want them to win more than me. And we do shit to institutionalize, obstructing people from making it. And that's why, like, I look at a lot of people now, and I'm like, damn, like, I could help you. But I'm going to let you starve because I watched how you let me starve. I watched how you intentionally try to stop me. So I'm not going to be the

better person to help you. I'm actually going to watch you start, but I'm going to help the person over there that literally needs me. And it's not a negative thing. It's just a, this is your karma or this is your lesson and hopefully you learn from it and do better next time. Absolutely. The Bible say when you know better, you do better. See it's scripture. So you talked about the power of ownership, but you have an incredible partnership coming up with BET. Yes. Talk to me about that. What can we expect from the Jason Lee show on BET? So the lesson. So the lesson. two lessons I learned. Let's go back to when I first decided I wanted to do what Wendy did. I want a talk show. This was years ago. I go to Queen Latifah and I'm like, I want a talk show.

I don't even have Hollywood on lock at the time. Queen Latifah's company, Shok Kim, and at the time Shelby Stone, and Yenley's over there now, but Shelby Stone and me, we went and pitched a show of the, it was, I think it was Jason Lee's show. I probably may have been Jason Lee's show. We pitched it to BT. This was so far ago. This was Robbie Reed, Laritha, and I forgot who else was in the room. Well, they didn't see it. They were like, have you ever done a show before? I was like, no.

Do you have a tape? No. Okay, well, so like, why are you ready for its show? I'm like, because I'm Jason Lee. Like, what do you mean? I wasn't ready. So they didn't, they said no. Then we went over to revolt.

Pitched it to Andre Harrell. He was like, this ain't what we do. I'm like, okay. So then fast forward years later, I've been on revolt, and now I'm at VET. So the lesson, first lesson was, don't never give up. Don't never give up in pursuit of whatever it is you're doing

because now I'm on the network that I first started before all of it, where I wanted to go. And I'm grateful for that. The second part is what I told BET when they did the deal, I ain't going to change. So get ready. You're going to get phone calls.

You're going to get complaints. People aren't going to be happy. And there are still conversations where I'm like, yo, I don't know why the legal wants to look at what I'm doing because you can see it when it airs. This is what it is. But there's such a respect there that they trust me.

And BET has said, we don't want you to be nobody but Jason. The deciding factor for me was in the trajectory of supporting black creators, BET is launching a creator studio for black creators. So I'm like, yo, this is aligned with a bigger purpose. You know, it's not about more money, more marketing. There's more marketing. But it's about like who else can come along with me, not behind me, along with me, to have a platform to create.

And that falls in line with what I have been standing for. So that was the deciding factor. And, you know, me and let me, we're on the phone talking about what else we're going to create together because he has the impact awards, which is coming up. And this year is going to be bigger than ever. And so I love the fact that I'm able to partner with him and a Black Creator and now be at BT with Lewis and Orkid and the new team over there that's taking BT in the direction that we all as people of color needed to go. You said that somebody asked you this question. I'm going to ask you this last question to close it out. today what does Jason Lee get a fuck about um okay and when I'm right when you said that I start feeling

a little emotion I will say the kids in Stockton like it's crazy looking at kids who like are literally where I was as a kid mom is struggling father's not there um violence and chaos around them lack of opportunity or disinvested community that they live in. And I'm like, damn, like, I know where I am right now. I know where I'm at in life. I've met presidents and I've traveled the world and I've seen things. I've been on private planes and, you know, and I've done all the things that I want to do.

And I'm like looking at these kids sometimes who have this look in their face like, they don't see it. That I care about. That's the thing that makes me go, you know, I'm going to go, you know, I'm going to go to CD Hall and deal with these motherfuckers today. Like, I don't want to. Like, damn, I don't want to see none of these people. A couple of my colleagues I do, but like, I don't even want to.

But that to me is, it's reminding me. I was at a school the other day talking to these kids. And they were out, you know, doing the day of action. But they weren't calling it Caesar Chavez because of what's happening right now with them saying about the sex and all that. But these kids, mostly Latino. And I said to them, today is a great day because you're learning how to use your voice. I just want you to remember throughout your whole life, don't never

let nobody tell you your voice don't matter. And they got it. So like that to me is like, that's, I give a fuck about that. I don't spend my time going to a bunch of events, speaking at a lot of things, taking a lot of pictures with people. But I tell people, if it has something to do with motivating kids, inspiring kids, helping to elevate the life of a child, I will do that because, you know, there weren't a lot of people that do that for me. So really, really fucking cool. Thanks. I mean, like, give a fuck about Rihanna, too, into that woman, that piece of shit woman, that piece of shit woman that shot up her house. Who shoots up Rihanna's house?

I think that Rihanna should be on all of our lists. Right. What do we give a fuck about? But no, I do just want to make sure I give you your flowers. One, you practice everything that you preach the same way that you just said you could help somebody else. You coming on to my platform, you didn't have to do that. And I am deeply grateful. Amber's the boss.

Let me tell you something. Amber being, she got an airport hook up, yeah. I'm just putting her out there a quick. When I saw Amber was in this little luxury. What is that thing? I don't even know what it's called. P.S. P.S. None of you know it because we can't afford it. It's the thing. She's in this thing where like she don't even got to, she drives up, hangs out in a suite, eats good food, gets walked to the plane. I like, yo, I need that. I aspire to be that.

So no, when I saw you on doing this thing, I'm like, well, she's doing her thing. I got to pull up. By the way, you have great skin. Thank you. Yeah. You kind of look like Sizzle a little bit. Do people tell you that? I know. I'm going to tell Siss's a lot. now. Oh, yeah, I could see it. It evolves with everyone. Maybe this podcast need to be on TDE. They got both of them, you know? But no, of course I had to pull up and support. I love supporting people who are like the real deal. I've always found you to be the real deal and always, you know, kept the real with me. So thank you. I respect this industry. I respect the media industry. I respect what you've done for it. So I just want to do my best. And it is so refreshing to be in a pivot state and to have somebody that I respect and the business support because that is not always the experience that you get when you're doing anything.

Of course. Even if you've been doing it for years. And so it means everything. And I'm proud of your growth. I'm going to celebrate every day, month, or year that you want to of your sobriety because I'm super proud of that too. And I can't wait to watch you on BET and all of your Jason Lee.

Thank you. Can you tell Summer Walker to unblock me though? Because, I mean, you got her number. Summer, stop playing. You know I fuck with you, Summer. I can share this. Summer, summer, spring, winterfall. Okay.

Unblock the damn Instagram. We cool. I love Summer Walker. I'm like, what did my team do the summer? But no, I just appreciate you, all your success.

She got a man, y'all. I met her man a minute ago. I don't got nobody. Well, not nobody permanent. But I still check my DMs, so they can't find me over there.

We will. You come back here and I'll get your life together with relationships. That's what you need. That's where I live. You know, I don't know.

Today I want one tomorrow. Probably not. A lot of people leave this house and be ending up getting engaged and stuff. So we got. My ring fingers empty. Let's do it. Dillie. Jason, I appreciate you.

And shout out to your team. Thank you guys so much for making this happen. All right. If you knew better, your goal would be to be influential or not famous. Period. Ain't nothing worse than being famous and broke. I'm telling you, I've seen it. It's horrible.

Jesus. Especially if you can't get your edges done. Wow. What? Or a line up. Let the people rest. Anyway. Good night.

Y'all, good night. If you knew better with Amber Grimes, a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Connect with Amber Grimes at Amber Grimes on all platforms. And make sure you subscribe for future episodes

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