The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Alencia Johnson On 'Flip the Tables,' Political Disruption, Reciprocity, Quitting Therapy +More

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Alencia Johnson To Discuss 'Flip the Tables,' Political Disruption, Reciprocity, Quitting Therapy. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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We are The Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRosa is here as well and we got a special guest in the building. Yes indeed. Her new book, Flip the Tables is out right now. We have Alencia Johnson. Welcome. Thank you. I'm glad to be here.

How you feeling? I feel good. Interesting to say that in the midst of everything going on, but I feel good taking care of myself and getting this message out. Well, we find joy where we can, right? Right, we have to. You got to. That's the only way to survive it.

Absolutely. I love the title of your book because I think that people don't ever expound on that part of Jesus enough. You know what I mean? Like that crunk Jesus? Yes. Flip the tables to everyday disruptors guide

to finding courage and making change. Break that title down. Yeah, you know, I'm glad you mentioned that reference. I'm a pastor's daughter. I love that story of Jesus. And in all of my work, I've worked on a lot of presidential campaigns. I've worked for Planned Parenthood. People constantly ask me, oh my goodness, how can I make change? They think it has to be at this massive scale. But what I realize is that when we find the courage to really be ourselves and to live in our truth and to speak up in rooms and do these small acts of disruption every single day, it doesn't actually require folks to quit their jobs and run for office. I don't think a lot of people should do that.

It doesn't require us to be like Dr. King or having these massive platforms, which are really important, but there are things that folks can do every single day. And I found that getting connected to your individual purpose and having the courage to be who you are is directly connected to being an everyday disruptor that propels our communities forward. And I think it's kind of divine

that it's such a time as this that it came out when I started writing this book five years ago, and who knew that it would come out three months after, a few months after Donald Trump was elected again. You worked on the VP's campaign, right? And you worked with Barack Obama? Yep, I worked on Obama's campaign, Joe Biden's campaign, Elizabeth Warren's campaign, and Vice President Harris' campaign. What bothers me is I know people like you exist and people like you work for these individuals. Why aren't they disruptive enough? Why don't they flip tables? Why do they keep, why do they don't, why don't they have the courage to disrupt the status quo?

You're talking about Barack Carmel, all of them. All of them. Well, you know, it's interesting because I don't, I don't want to say I look at, well, I don't think I look at all of them in essence the same. In democratic politics, in politics in general, elected officials, I think, tend to follow a certain path, right? And sometimes it seems as though making sure that the status quo remains. I do think if we step back a little bit, Barack Obama was a bit of a disruptor.

Because of him though, because of his identity. His identity, and because he, you know, folks told him he shouldn't have ran, and he did, right? Now, there's a whole system at play that folks, you know, when you become the president of the United States or the nominee for the president of the United States, you know, you uphold this party platform. But the reality is I don't look at them to disrupt what our country needs politically.

I actually look at us as the people and the groundswell, which is why it's just as important. Yes, I work for a lot of presidential campaigns, but it's just as important to work for these local races, to work for these primary races, to work for these governor's races, all of these people who are actually trying to challenge the system and get more reflective folks in position to actually push forward the policies we care about, like universal healthcare and racial justice and access to abortion

and all of those things. And so, it takes a lot of courage to shake the table and it takes a lot of courage to concede that if you're gonna shake the table, you actually might lose in the short term, but you're going to create a path for other people to push forward that change and it'll be a little bit easier

because you were there and you started something. How did you get into politics? What got you into politics in that part of the game? I think it was always in me. I talk about my late grandmother in the book often. I actually dedicate the book to her, Ms. Ozella Bennett. And she was one of those people who, much like a lot of our ancestors,

their names aren't in history books, but they were foot soldiers. My grandmother was in the church, I'm the daughter of a pastor, so I grew up in the black church, and there's a lot of politics there, right? A lot of social justice there. And just this understanding that where much is given, much is required, that my gifts are not my own

and that they are actually on loan and that I actually have to get those out and help the world around me. And my grandmother, no matter how much she had or what she didn't have, she always felt like she had to stand in the gap. And voting for me is just all, I mean, I would go to them with my parents to the voting booth, I had that little sticker.

But that was just like one part of it. I had to be an active participant in the world that I wanted to create. And so for me, it was just kind of natural that it would be a part of my life. Now how I got to my position, I talk about in the book, I didn't know anybody in democratic politics. When I moved to DC, I was working a corporate job. I just had a dream. I was like, oh, this black man is president.

I think I kind of want to work for his reelection campaign and figure it out how to network with folks that ended up taking a job that I wasn't even qualified for, but they took a chance on me. And I figured it out from there. And I can't just sit on the sidelines and critique something and not be a part of it. And I also understand how engaging, if so many more of us engaged in the process, the outcomes would look different, our communities would look different,

but we, for whatever reason, there are so many barriers for us to engage. And that's another reason why I wanted to be part of this because I felt like, well, if I can do this and people can identify with me, maybe it won't feel as hard, right, for me to engage in politics. Maybe, you know, I won't feel ashamed that I don't know every single term that they're using or every single way that the policies develop.

I'll be honest with you. Sometimes when I have to go and see an MSNBC and talk about something, I gotta research what I'm talking about because government class was in high school. I'm 37 years old. I don't remember everything. And so if I can't remember all these things, right, if I have to continue to inform myself, imagine all the other people who are just scared

to participate because they don't know. It's not that they don't want to. And so I know that I have to be a representative of that, but I also, again, it's this calling where much is given, much is required, and I'm required to make my communities better. I think right now with politics and how we're seeing people

get messages out through TikTok and stuff like that, things are changing. Absolutely. And I saw an interview that you did where you talked about you weren't the most qualified, but you were the most recommended when it came to working for the Obamas. And I saw another interview where you talked about your red flag is you chapter in your book.

Ooh, girl. And putting both of those together, I think that there's a renaissance of new political leaders, but they're afraid that they don't know enough or that they can't challenge the Trumps of the world. You know what I mean? So how do you speak to those leaders that are coming up in this book? Because they're there.

They just need to figure out how to do what you did. No, they literally are there, which is why I start the book with disruption of self, right? We actually have to look in the mirror and that's the hardest thing to do. One thing that I've realized in working in advocacy spaces and political spaces, I'm not gonna get in trouble for saying this, but we're telling the world to treat us well

and to vote for us to enact these policies that see us as worthy for humanity and all of these things, fighting for justice, and yet we're not treating each other well, right? And a lot of that is because we are not healthy, we're not dealing with the things that are holding us back from being who we are, we're not dealing with this trauma, and we are doing this interpersonal harm that is actually not allowing us to do the work that needs to be done for communities.

And so I put that chapter, The Red Flag Is You and the disruption of self section of the book, because so many times we are like, we are the ones that are getting in our own way of our own destiny, whether it is that professional pursuit, whether it's that personal pursuit. I write, I tell a lot of this in my book and a lot of this was inspired by a lot of relationships that were going the wrong way.

And I was like, I'm dating the same person, but none of them know each other. Like what's happening here? I'm holding myself back from career opportunities. I'm holding myself back. But yet I knew I had this big vision. And so if we remove those barriers within our own selves that are holding ourselves back,

we would be so surprised the change that we could have in the world around us, right? We would be so surprised at the doors that would not just open, but the change that we could have in the world around us, right? We would be so surprised at the doors that would, not just open, but the spaces that we create that somebody else was waiting for us to create. So many times people just sit on the sidelines to critique, but they don't have the courage to actually try and put themselves out there.

And that's why, you know, the only thing stopping us, sometimes, yes, there's the system, right? Like there's all of that. And yet at the same time, sometimes, it's us getting in our own way. I think it's us majority of the time. It is. I really feel that way.

I feel like, you know, yes, we do know the systems are there, but even just having that mentality, right, like, oh, the system's going to stop me, the system's going to stop me, you're already telling yourself no. That's right. You're already limiting yourself, right? And multiple things can be true at the same time.

I say it all the time. I have a friend who hates that I say that. But I'm like, yes, the system's there. But like, it's right. That where you're already limiting yourself, right? And multiple things can be true at the same time. I say it all the time. I have a friend who hates that I say that. But I'm like, yes, the system is there. But like, it's you. You sitting over here. And I talk about this as well. I talk about mental health in the book.

I was diagnosed with OCD when I was 15. So I've been in and out of therapy my whole life. And at one point, actually in the process of writing this book, which was really hard, I quit therapy. Because I was like, I'm sitting here having the same conversation every Monday at 5 PM and I'm not doing the work because I'm scared of facing myself. I'm not having that difficult conversation. I'm sitting here theorizing it.

Debbie Brown just said that. Literally. I mean, that's something she's always told me, but literally she was just sitting there and said the exact same thing. People will go to therapy for years. For years. And be afraid to actually do the hard work on themselves. Yeah.

And it's like, how do we as a society get to a place that we are scared to sit with ourselves? Part of how I got to this book was a very successful career. I'm extremely blessed. I'm sitting in this beautiful corner apartment. I got all the things. I bought all the things. I can travel.

Go to all these places. And I was sitting there, and I was crying, because I was not happy. And I looked in the mirror, and I was travel, go to all these places. I was sitting there and I was crying because I was not happy. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, what are you covering up and what are you running from? And what really hit me was when I realized you're running from yourself. And like, how sad is that that we run from ourselves? Like, we are something to be fearful of.

And so I had to change the relationship with myself. I had to change the relationship with myself I had to change the relationship with what success looked like with what? relationships look like and that you know tension and Confrontation and disagreement and relationship doesn't mean the end of a relationship right and that shifted my friendships It shifted my professional relationships, and it got me to this bold place of you know what I know what my purpose is I know that this is a means to an end, and if this doesn't go my way, at least I've tried.

Right? What didn't you like that you saw? Like what were you running from, particularly? And myself? Oof. One of the things is how hard I am on myself. I'm a Virgo in four houses, and clearly a high achieving person,

and I was just so hard on myself. What's your birthday? September 3rd. Very close to Beyonce. Same birthday. Same birthday. Birthday 12. OK, so you feel me.

And I got to a place where I was judging myself so hard. Judging myself for, I don't even want to say mistakes, but learning opportunities. Judging myself for outcomes that did or did not happen. And I had someone say to me, they said, if people around you that you love heard how hard you are on yourself, how are they going to feel you're going to be with them?

I was like, oh, wow. And like to really kind of beat myself down with, you should have done this, right? You could have done X, Y, and Z. Now I'm working to take should out of my vocabulary and embracing things as a learning opportunity. And I also, as a person of deep faith, I talk about grace and we talk about God's grace

and we talk about giving other people grace, but I had to learn to give myself that grace as well. And let go of that pressure to feel or strive for perfection because what really is perfection, right? And what is actually the goal? Because there is, the goalpost will move every single time. And how do you just become content with just being? I also realized that I didn't, again,

in therapy, knowing all the language, I didn't like to sit with my feelings. Oh no, I'm angry. I don't want to sit with that uncomfortable feeling. I'm going to go move on to something else. And then something that black women tend to do is instead of sitting with our feelings or whatever it may be, we go get another degree.

We go get another professional pursuit. We was just talking about that in my group chat probably like a week ago about how like now at this age, we begin to realize that the overachieving isn't like us a need to achieve is kind of like a escapism type of thing or trauma response. Yeah, or even you just instantly were even like a breakup, a breakup inspires a new business or like, you know, something like that. It does. And you know, those things are beautiful, right? You know, what is birth out of pain can be very beautiful. I talk about that too. But

I also talk about when I was in therapy, this conversation, a black woman therapist and I had, and she wanted me to answer the question of, who are you? And she asked me that question and I said, oh, OK, I'm about to rattle off my resume. She said, no, who are you unattached to your professional accolades? And you started crying.

I sure did. I was like, girl. And we still had like 45 minutes left, so I couldn't really hang up. It was $200. I'm sitting there looking at her, she's looking at me. We both look at each other like, she's like, sis, how are you going to answer that question? And what I found is that the answer is ever evolving.

And it was that search for myself. Right. And I wanted to drag everybody else with us. I tweeted that question and it went viral. And that was a whole chapter in the book. But, you know, I go back to that question of who am I, like when I'm anxious, when I'm feeling like, oh, I gotta strive for something else. No, I've done enough.

But who am I? I'm curious. I'm a lover. I fight for people. I love people, right? I'm actually not this person who's Teflon Don, who doesn't need intimate relationship in all forms, right? Like, who am I? And let me sit in all of that, and that is enough. You're not in therapy anymore. You said when you were in therapy.

When I was, so I, and I'm not discouraging people from therapy at all. I think for me right now in this period of life, I'm just taking a break. And I think mental health care is extremely important. Again, I mentioned I was diagnosed with OCD when I was 15 years old. So I've been in and out over half of my life,

majority of my life at this point. And there are times when I need extra support. There are times when I need an antidepressant. There are times when I actually do need to sit on that couch every single week. And then there are times when, okay, I'm going through the same motions again. Now, when am I going to do the work?

And so I think people need to look at it as a support system. It's like working out in a gym. Sometimes I feel like I need a trainer, even though I've been athletic my whole life. Sometimes I need a trainer, sometimes I can do it on my own and vice versa. And so it's a matter of tapping into your power and your needs at the time that makes sense for you.

I am so glad that you and Deb were doing a conversation this week. Are you having a conversation about how many books this week, or me? We're going to do it at some point. It's not public yet. Oh, I'm sorry. Because literally, she was just here, and a lot of that

is her new book, Living in Wisdom. She, a lot of that is in there. Yeah. Well, and here's the thing I shared with her, too. I'm based in the DC area, and I moved back to the DC area, not for politics, but to be close to my family. And it's so interesting because friends in politics are like, you're not at this event.

I was like, nah, I'm hanging out with my family and my friends and my loved ones. But I said to Debbie one time that that area needs so much healing so that folks get off of this hamster wheel of chasing what's next, of what is deemed important to society and really getting into ourselves. And I'm actually excited for her book too.

I feel like all these books are like now, all these black women's stories are coming out to like build upon one another. Well, you need them now more than ever, especially being that they're trying to take anything black history related to our schools, yeah, and universities. Literally, there's a chapter in the book,

and so it's in three parts, disruption of self. Disruption of vision. That's the hard part. Disruption of vision, and especially for black folks and black women, the first chapter in disruption of vision, goodbye to the boss, the ATCH. Yep, mm-hmm. That's a good one, because it talks about rest.

It talks about disrupting this notion that we are only supposed to labor and give birth to labor. Like, there is so much more to us as black women and how we deserve the rest and all those things. And then disruption of community. And right now, we need to radically change how we think about community and build community, but it really starts with that imperative healing and in disruption of community,

there's a chapter of storytelling. And I think folks look at storytelling, they think of Ava DuVernay and Ryan Kukler who are doing amazing work and preserving our history through artistic expression. But individual storytelling is extremely powerful. And I've seen it, even in my own life, but I've seen how individual storytelling is extremely powerful. And I've seen it, even in my own life, but I've seen how individual storytelling

shifts families and friendships. And then that expands your capacity for understanding of one another. And then so one person becomes 10 people and then all of a sudden you're understanding a complicated issue in a way that's very personal to you. Right, and so storytelling, if it wasn't so powerful, there wouldn't be all these attacks

on our institutions and our history. And I actually think everybody, whether or not you're putting a book out there or not, figure out a way to preserve your story. I was in Mobile, Alabama. I went to the, I believe the Heritage Museum where the Coltilda is, and where the remnants of that slave ship and

just going through the it's a very small museum but just going through it and they're talking about how Zora Neale Hurston had captured some oral history and I'm just thinking about wow so powerful for her to capture that in the 1920s for us to be reading about it right now and if we think about so much history is just passed down through these oral traditions What would happen if we can literally preserve them in a written way? Digital way like we have so many opportunities to preserve our history to pass down to the next generations I was gonna ask you talked about when you came in you talk about Relationships and you talk about friends and how you had to see things in yourself. Was it the fact that you expected too much of people?

I think and how did you get over that? Like, you know, cause you talk about, you wanted somebody to do things the way that you did it or quote unquote, as close to perfect as possible. How did you get over that with relationships and with coworkers? Well, again, facing the mirror myself, I was like, girl, you don't like yourself every day.

Yo, Kebob fans, it's your boy, Bumhunt, and I'm bringing you something epic. Introducing the K Factor, like yourself every day. idols and trainees, we're bringing you the real stories behind the music that you love. And yeah, we're keeping it 100 discussing everything from comebacks and concepts to the mental health side of the business because K-pop isn't just a genre, it's a whole world and we're exploring every corner of it. And here's the best part, fans get to call in, drop opinions and even join us live at events. You never know where we might pop up next. So listen to the K Factor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This isn't just a podcast, it's a movement. Are you ready? Let's go. Peace to the planet. I go by the name of Charlamagne the God and guess what? I can't wait to see

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podcasts. And you also disappoint yourself every day. And so how are you, you know, holding yourself to this impossible standard, but also holding all these other people to that, you know, those impossible standards as well? And so I got to this place of separating standards and expectations of people and myself. I have high standards, but I've, like, lowered

my expectations of people. And in essence, we will disappoint one another. We will get in partnership, whatever it may be, and we're not going to, to your point, do things the same way that I would do them. I thought about this when I started, so I'm an entrepreneur and hiring people. I'm like, okay, Alencia, does the thing need to get done

the same way you would do it? Or does it just need to get done? And sometimes it just needs to get done. And then I think about, as I've been really on this journey of looking at, again, all relationships in my life and friendships especially, you know, we talk about love languages with intimate relationships,

but sometimes we don't think about that and what that means for our friendships. We are always talking about how people, how our intimate partners should love us or show up for us and teaching them our love language. But the same with our friendships, right? Because a friend can be supporting you in the way that they feel is like big support

and you're thinking, oh no, I wanted you to like roll out the red carpet over here and they're like, well, I cooked you a meal. And we're missing each other, right? And so I had to really- I hate that though. What do you mean? Because like, don't tell me how to show up for you. If I got, I did me, like, you know what I mean?

And I, they say this is the thought that counts, right? But then it's not. Right. Well, yeah, but I think it also requires communication, right? One of the things that I realized was a red flag of me is running from difficult conversation. And when it comes to interpersonal relationships.

But if you have that conversation with one another, if you can quiet out the noise and actually be present in the relationship, you'll realize, oh, your love language is different than my love language. But that doesn't mean we don't love each other. That doesn't mean we don't care for each other. And also, you may not have the capacity to show up for me in this moment. And it has nothing to do with you not wanting to be there. You got all these other things going on.

The amount of calls I've had to make now, the book has come out, and it's been out, and we went through the book tour, and I'm like, oh yeah, my bad friend of really not being there for like six, seven months. But thank you for being my friend and showing up in the ways that you could and understanding that I didn't have the capacity.

But it takes intentional communication, and it takes something that, I don't know if you struggle with this, but as a Vir have the capacity, but it takes intentional communication and it takes something that, I don't know if you struggle with this, but as a Virgo, I struggle with this being really, really, really vulnerable about what you need and about what works for you. I used to struggle with it.

I don't struggle with it anymore. Same, yeah. I'm vulnerable so much, I don't even, it doesn't even bother me. Yeah. The big problem I had was people showing up for you. That was my thing. And what Charlamagne said, I would show up for everybody, But then when it was time for people to show up for me,

a lot of times they didn't, and it would bother the shit out of me. And then I had to realize that everybody's not the same. Just because you do something a certain way, that doesn't mean necessarily Charlamagne's gonna do it, or Lauren's gonna do it the same way. And once I let that go, I really don't, it just doesn't affect me the same anymore.

And that's beautiful, and it reminds me of, I'm a Delta, I really don't, it just doesn't affect me the same anymore. No, and that's beautiful. And it reminds me of, I'm a Delta, I pledge on college and my line name is Reciprocity. And my- Are you supposed to say that publicly? Yeah, you can say that. Yeah, I can come up with my line name. Put it on close and stuff.

Yeah, so I'm gonna disclose. But I'm- You didn't go to college talking about it. Are you supposed to say that? I don't know, they so secretive about everything else. We are, we are. Trust me, we trained to know what secret was that. But so my line name's Reciprocity, and my big sister who gave me that line name, she

knew I was like, Reciprocity, like the word out of that Lauryn Hill song, right? Like what are you talking about? And she's like, no, you give, give, give so much, and you expect for people to show up the same way that you do. And she's like, that is a struggle of yours and it's going to continue to be a struggle of yours. And she was right. It's this thing that we're talking about.

And again, it wasn't until later in life, this point in life that I'm in right now to remove kind of those expectations of people and just like, let us exist and love one another. Because I've even found too, there's a chapter in here called the Trailblazer Conendrum that talks about not isolating yourself even though you're blazing trails.

There are so many people in our lives who want to show up for us, who don't even know how to, they may not have the, I don't know, the business acumen to help us with something, the money, the resources, but in their small ways, it's actually really important. And so giving people the opportunity to show up for you in the way that makes sense for them is very powerful too.

You know, I wanna talk to you about the urgency in our chapter and the disruption of community. Cause that is what people always get mad about when it comes to Democrats, their lack of urgency. They don't have a sense of urgency. I would go so far as to say their lack of urgency is what has us in this situation right now. I would agree with that.

So why don't they have no sense of urgency? Well, I would agree with that and the decision makers in the power because I don't wanna erase some people that I talked about in the book and who wrote a beautiful endorsement for the book, Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. Love Ayanna.

Someone who was like, I'm bucking the system and I'm gonna challenge this incumbent. And there are a lot of those. I mean, you've seen AOC, you've seen, there's so many folks there, state representatives who do that as well. This whole notion of decorum and order, it is the reason we are where we are.

And this is the time, to be honest, for the new wave and the new thought that is coming in the party, and some of which is in the party, to challenge the status quo. How do we know it's not too late? Wow. You're already talking about doing a third term. You know what I'm saying?

Once we get to that part of the conversation and it's normalized, maybe we're too late. So if it's, but if it's, if we have that mentality that's too late, then people are going to be sitting there not doing anything at all. Is it too, it's too late or is it just not loud enough? Because all the people you named is like, you can point to those people, but like there, it's like, that's a handful of people. It is a handful of people, but they're also, so I mean, here's the thing. You all are media, you know, I'm on cable news. I will be on a show and for an hour, all we're doing is talking about Donald Trump.

And I'm like, there's over 400 members in the House of Representatives. There's a hundred senators. There's 50 governors. There's so many other people that we can talk about, which is they don't bring them numbers ratings. They don't bring those numbers and they don't bring those ratings. And that is the self accountability on us to be be paying attention to a lot of those people. The other thing that I'm so much more focused on and some of my journalist friends and I

get into this disagreement, I don't really talk to people who voted for Donald Trump. Like that's not, I don't need to talk to them because if we look at the last election, 90 million eligible voters did not vote. That's a whole lot of people that we can reach to understand that they actually have power to change the system. In the book, I talk about the labor movement and how unions are incredibly powerful.

That is a way that we can overthrow these companies that are run by these billionaires who are out of touch, the people power. And that's the thing that I'm focused on right now, it's the people power. And we've conceded our power to these people that we've elected, not realizing that I pay taxes, that means I pay your salary and you work for me. If people power wasn't so imperative, why did all these elected officials shut down those town halls because they didn't want to hear from their constituents?

Because those loud voices are disruptive. And so, look, the Democrats got a lot to reckon with. It's the reason why I work for myself so I can actually challenge them from the outside, because I think it is extremely, it's not just that it's too late, but it is harmful to communities who are dying because of what is happening that's harmful to communities who have been fighting against these systems and

And yet at the same time They are the ones that folks constantly look to to create the solutions. And so until the Democratic Party Just as much as we understand that, you know, Republicans subscribe to white supremacy, in the Democratic Party, there are folks that need to understand that their positions are privileged that they need to get up out of their seats. A real leader understands when they are in the way of progress, and I think until we really reckon

with that, we're gonna continue to see this fighting, and we will continue to lose in ways that quite frankly are killing so many of our communities. And I think you should talk to people who voted for Trump. And the reason I think you should is because then you'll understand the why. And I think that's what Democrats just simply fail. That's fair. Yes. They didn't know, they couldn't understand the why.

It's like, oh, how could you vote for the, did you actually have a conversation with them to see how? Because a lot of it does just have to do with a lot of policies that they just integrated. That's true. And let me clarify that. There are a lot of people with privilege and understanding exactly why they voted for Donald Trump, which is centered around race, that I do not like to engage with. But to your point, if I think about where I grew up, if I think about people who I may not talk to anymore,

but high school, college, whatever it may be, they probably did vote for Donald Trump, for whatever reason it may be. And so what is the conversation? Is it the economy? But then continue to ask all those questions. Is it because you believe this trope that other people are taking your jobs,

but the reality is it's these billionaires not paying you a fair wage? Like, what is it? I think it is important, but my frustration The reality is it's these billionaires not paying you a fair wage. Like, what is it? I think it is important. But my my my frustration is what happens every cycle of what we need to moderate. Democrats need to moderate our positions and placate to these phantom swing voters that are going to vote for a black woman.

And that's actually again, back to my 90 million. We're over here trying to get these few hundred thousand. But there's all of these people left untouched. Flip the book over, Alessia. I'm flipping the book. I can't flip the table over, but flipping my book over. So yes, yes. And thank you for clarifying that so I could expound upon that because I don't want to

go viral and it's like, she don't talk to people and she don't know about Trump. What about your arm? Because I know you did a lot of work with Planned Parenthood. And now a lot of what you were doing, they ain't supporting that. So when you do all this work, you stopped taking the rest, to fight to break this ground, and then you see this new administration come in

who is completely against it and it's stripping all of that. You feel defeated or like what happens now? Because you're not there anymore. No, I mean, and then they have the audacity to talk about, they want to put policies in place for people to have more babies and give people $5,000. I'm like, but you all voted against the child tax credit. So what's interesting about working at Planned Parenthood,

I worked there for six years at the national office, and talk about disruptive, being the daughter of a pastor, lover of Jesus, and advocating for abortion rights. People are like, how do you reconcile that? I was like, I just exist. Literally, I just exist. And the teachings of Jesus, the red text in the Bible, tells me a lot of ways in which I should show up in the world.

When I was working at Planned Parenthood, President Obama was still in office. And I was like, oh, we good. He believes in reproductive freedom. This is great. And they're like, oh, no, let's look at these state policies and these states that are overturning the right to access to abortion and not only access to abortion,

but sex education, contraception, all of these things. And just gutting health care systems and health centers that are helping people who have nowhere else to go. When I look at what's happening now at the federal level, and the Trump administration is literally going after organizations like Planned Parenthood, it reminds me that these people do not care about people at the margins.

They do not care about low income folks who have nowhere else to go. And if you actually wanted people to have more children in this country. You would actually support and bolster the healthcare system instead of gutting it. Last week was Black Maternal Health Week, and black maternal mortality is on the rise. Maternal mortality across the country, across demographics is on the rise in the wealthiest nation.

And so it's challenging, it's frustrating. There's this Alice Walker quote I put at the beginning of the book, and I'm paraphrasing it. You have to keep a healthy soul in the face of constant oppression, which reminds you that at the end of the day, there's going to continuously be something that you're fighting for. So how do you maintain your spirit in order to keep going?

And that is through the joy and the rest, and all of those things can coexist together while you're also still fighting for the ability to have agency over my body. The one thing I will say of everything being burned down from abortion access to everything that's happening in our country, it gives us the opportunity to build something better and something new.

I don't wanna rebuild the old because the old was clearly, it was able to be dismantled. I actually now wanna be able to imagine something even better that's actually going to work and how do we build that? And that's actually what gets me up at night. I'm like, I'm not fighting these people to rebuild what didn't work.

I have this vision that excites me to build something even better, even on the days that are hard. I agree with that, but then when I hear you say that Barack Obama was in the White House and you big on Planned Parenthood, he had the opportunity to code a viro, V-Way. He did, he did.

He had the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives for two years. He could have passed it in the federal law, any campaign that he would. I see stuff like that and I'm like, why do we believe these people again? Well, so I hear that, which is also why I think the work to shift culture is so imperative. If we think about President Biden, he actually is very, I would say, moderate in his position around reproductive freedom. And yet, he had to champion issues that quite frankly,

if culturally and as a collective, we're not pushing and challenging people to actually do something about these, he wouldn't have. And so that's where culture work is so important. That's where shifting how we think, how we understand things as a society is so important. But it's also how we show up and tell people, if you're not going to hold true to your campaign promise,

we are not going to support you again. And so I love President Obama. Listen, if Donald Trump runs for a third term, Obama should run for a third term. Alencia, you know that if Trump runs for a third term, it'll be just like in Russia, it's all for show. The fight is fixed, he will win. Sure, right.

I'm saying this and that, listen, I love President Obama and yet I have critique, and that is one of my critiques, right? And when we had the super majority and could have codified a lot of these issues, we should have done it. But that doesn't make me not participate, right? And that doesn't make me sit out and say,

I'm never gonna work for a presidential candidate ever again, even if I disagree with them, because there's a lot of, I don't agree with 100% of the things that any of the people that I work with are, but there's some fundamental things that, for me, that are non-negotiable. And if I'm not at the table,

if our friend Stephanie's not at the table, if you've had Ashley Allison here, if we're not at the table, we can't push these candidates further along and these elected officials further along. Is it? I guess it's just heartbreaking for me because it's like, you know, yes, when they overturned Roe v. Wade, it was like, man, they overturned Roe v. Wade.

But then when you see people like President Obama speak out against that, I'm like, but you had the ability to codify Roe v. Wade. You could have made it actual federal legislation. Wait. Yeah, I mean, the hard part about the abortion conversation is how the right has actually used religion, has made it a religious argument when, like,

that's actually not in the text. And the reality is the right and conservatives were losing on, they lost on segregation. And so they said, oh, we need some, well, we can't continue with this race thing. Now we're gonna have to go over here to this woman thing and let's actually make abortion a political lightning rod. And so when people fundamentally understand that, they can take away their personal beliefs

and actually realize, oh, people's right to make decisions for their bodies is their own. And that has nothing to do with me. If a lot of people stayed out of each other's business, I think our politics would be a lot better. Absolutely. That's too simple. Even, you know, I'm going back to the urgency and now,

when people ask us now, they'll tell us all of these different things that Trump is doing every single day. And they're like, what do you think of that? And I'm like, I don't know what to think. Because I'm like, what am I even supposed to do? Because it always seems like the urgency is put on we the people.

But then when these elected officials that we voted for from 2020 to 2024, when they were in the White House, they didn't govern with a sense of urgency. That's what always gets me about Democrats. Whenever it's election time, it's a sense of urgency. It's on y'all. It's a threat to democracy. You're going to lose all your rights and everything else.

But you don't govern like that when you get an office. Yeah you know it is frustrating I will say I don't pay attention to what that man is doing all day every day because then I'll just sit in this place where I'm immobile right but I do look for for small pockets of hope and to your point it does end up being us that have to save our own communities. But I think that's in general a nature of who we are as a people, and that is community. I mean, look at our friends who started State of the People,

which I was a part of, you all broadcasted, and now there's a whole tour. Through to Angela Rye. Shout out to Angela Rye and Joy Reid and so many folks who are just building something beautiful, reminding us of our power as community. And I think out of that births people who will govern with urgency of now. So I write about Ayanna Pressley in the book, but I also write about Shirley Chisholm, who was just fed up and was like,

oh, I'm going to actually be the one that changes, you know, David Hogg, who was the vice chair of the DNC, but was a survivor of the Parkland shooting and had done all of this activism, and now he's challenging, he's getting a lot of heat. He's getting a lot of heat. I have said that, I said that two months ago. Anybody who's not willing to fight

in the Democratic Party should be Primary I came Jeffries Chuck Schumer y'all should resign if y'all not the people that can meet this moment I really feel that way and anybody else in the Democratic Party who's not willing to fight should be primary I'm all for what David Hawkins knowing I said that months ago and and listen, you know There are some people who disagree with it But he said listen change, change has to, we can't just keep talking about change. You gotta actually go after it.

And whether or not you believe in what he's doing, whether or not you believe that there needs to be new leadership, whatever it is, change doesn't just happen if we sit around and wish for it. We actually have to do something about it. And sometimes, in order to get these folks to operate with some urgency, you gotta put some pressure and some heat under them.

That's why everybody in the party should have had a copy of this book, flip the table. Absolutely. A long time ago. I don't know if they're gonna do it though. They have no choice now. They don't have a choice. When do we ever have a choice?

No, there's really no choice now. I feel like it's always a fight or flight, do what you gotta do to get out of the situation for us. It's different. I could be wrong. I hear you, but I feel like it's always a fighter flight like do what you got to do to get out of a situation for us I could be wrong I feel like it is different, but I don't feel like anything has changed about the way that people are handling it I don't really feel the sense of urgency There was an interview that you talked about DEI you're like these companies are folding It was a glamour magazine

You said these companies are folding they don't understand that the proximity to the president isn't power. Power is showing him that he needs you. People are not gonna do that. Everything that we're talking about, people just don't do it. You know, but I think what I hear you, and I do have to remind us all that this man has only, he hasn't even been in office 100 days. Lord have mercy.

But because we are in such an information overload. It feels like forever. It does. It's like you open Instagram, and I'm seeing restaurants I wanna to go to and then I'm seeing what this man is doing in the White House. So we're in this information overload. And at the same time, I think about at the State of the Union, shout out to Congressman

Green and y'all had him up here. And I was like, oh my gosh, every single Democrat should have gotten up right after him and disrupted the entire speech, right? And then when Senator Booker did his filibuster, people were saying, yes, this is what we need more of. And now you're seeing more people in the streets. And I think people are, some of our elected officials are understanding that there's more that they can do now.

And then there are still going to be some who don't. And we have midterm elections and special elections, and I am all about getting people in office who are going to be effective. And also us participating in that. Whether you agree with them or disagree with them, if they represent you, you have the power and the right to show up and tell them what is working and what

isn't working. And I want more of us to do. I want our elected officials to be scared. I want our elected officials to be like, my constituents aren't going for this or my constituents told me I have to do this. And that's why I'm doing it. Absolutely. Well, Flip the Tables is out right now. Alencia Johnson, the Everyday Disruptors Guide to Finding Courage and Making Change. And this isn't a book, you a book just for people who are into politics, just in life.

If you wanna learn how to flip some damn tables like Jesus did. Yes, more of that. Yeah. Can you imagine Jesus flipping over tables? He was angry. Yes, I think you should. I think you should find a table to flip.

Listen, okay. That's a whole nother conversation for us to have. That Jesus. A little bit of wine. No, that's it. He turned water into wine. Lincea Johnson. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar. I host a podcast called A Slight Change of Plans that combines behavioral science and storytelling to help us navigate the big changes in our lives. I get so choked up because I feel like your show and the conversations are what the world

needs encouraging, empowering, counter-programming that acts like a lighthouse when the world feels dark. Listen to a slight change of plans on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Last year a lot of the problems of the drug war this year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports. It's kind of started a little bit, man. We met them at their homes, met them at the recording studios.

Stories matter and it brings a face to it. Makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the World Drugs Podcast season two on the iHeart radioio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm ready to fight. Oh, this is fighting words. Okay, I'll put the hammer back. Hi, I'm George M. Johnson, a bestselling author with the second most banned book in America. Now more than ever, we need to use our voices to fight back. Part of the power of Black queer creativity is the fact that we got us, you know? We are the greatest culture makers in world history. Listen to Fighting Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures, and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of 2B. We dive into the competitive world of streaming. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. There are so many stories out there and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience

is that they feel seen. Listen to Good Company on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.