The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Alex Joseph Grayson & Renni Magee Talk 'Outsiders,' Broadway, Vegas, ROC Nation + More

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Today on The Breakfast Club, Alex Joseph Grayson & Renni Magee Talk 'Outsiders,' Broadway, Vegas, ROC Nation. Listen For More!YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BreakfastClubPower1051FMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Shalameen the God, Jess Hilarious, DJ Envy. Envy's not here, but Lauren LaRosa is. And we got some special guests in the building, man. I went to go see this play a couple of weeks ago. The outsiders. How y'all brothers doing? Introduce yourselves, man. I'm Alex Joseph Grayson.

I played Dallas Winston in The Outsiders on Broadway. Good morning, Alex. I'm Rennie Anthony McGee. I play Steve and The Outsiders. Man, how did y'all end up into outsiders? The outside has been historically white for as long as I can remember. It was.

How'd y'all end up in the play? You developed this thing. Yeah. So, you know, in the theater world, we do these things called workshops before we try to get an out-of-town try-out. Which is just sometimes it's not even out of town. It could be in New York, you know, off-Broadway.

So I was doing a MJ on Broadway. It was my first Broadway show. I was a swing, which means I learned multiple roles. I got this audition. choreographers I had worked with before I was praying for it the choreographers I had worked with before I was praying for it and

when we did it we were working through and they were working with this idea of different races right because you have the socios and the greas so socioeconomically you know in the 60s with the exception of a small percentage black people didn't have much wealth

because this country did not allow us to have that so we were trying to show this story about those with who are less fortunate going against those who have it all but maybe are less fortunate in other ways because you know some of these we don't know what goes on behind rich family's doors

we do not no matter what the race is but that's kind of how we came in here you know Alex kind of slid in later yeah actually believe it or not I auditioned for an early version of the outsiders before the pandemic

I want to say it was like 2018 they called called me in and you know I got an email from my talent agent that was it was for the outsiders for for Dally actually and I was like is this is the mad Dylan in the movie this is this is interesting that they're calling me in for this but it was at a period of time in which I noticed I had been getting a lot of auditions for characters and these are non-fiction these are they're

fictional stories sorry so I but I did think think there was a trend where I was being called in to play these roles that were traditionally not black men. And I don't know if that was a reflection of something that was happening on Broadway and in theater where there was a movement to sort of change some of the faces that were telling the story, especially in a post-Hamilton world in which we're giving these American stories to people that are not necessarily being considered. like American in appearance. So, you know, I gave it a stab,

but nothing really happened in 2018 with that show didn't move forward for me. So I had actually stopped thinking about it for a while until about seven months ago. Now, it's been like six or seven months that I've been with the show and it came around again. I auditioned for the show

before it came to Broadway, but it didn't work out. And I let it go. And luckily, it came around for me and now I'm a part of it. And it's a really great. great group of people that I work with. The show is very exciting. It's very physically demanding. It's very dangerous, which I'm learning firsthand. So I have to take really good care of my body and my

health and every day take a breath. And everybody's got different practices. I know, Reni, I see you, I see you praying off on the side a lot. It's like we just have to really still ourselves and care for our instruments every time we walk on that stage. Man, I was just about to go into that asking y'all, y'all rituals or y'all practices. Because, listen, that Broadway, you need your voice and you need to be able to project. What exercises do you guys have to do? What can't you do?

And what do you have to do? Kegels. To get giggles. No. Well, you know, no, my. Go ahead. You know, I will say, I mean, above all else, as Alex mentioned, I'm a huge prayer.

I have noticed during the performances where I forgot to pray before, people have gotten heard. Now, for me, that's the connection already. You know, I pray for a speedy show. I pray for an efficient show, an enlightened show, a fulfilling show, because oftentimes we're coming to the theater with all of the things that are happening in this world, you know, and we have to get on that stage and tell this story, which is a sad story. So now we have to live in that. And, you know, one of the things they always talk about is when you're acting, your body does not know the difference between real and fake. So when you bring yourself to that point, you're there. Yeah.

Even if you subconsciously know, like, that sixth sense, oh, this is not really, really happening. Your body doesn't. You know, my mom read, you know, I love you, Pamela McGee, you the bomb. my mom she read there was a study that said people who go on stage they have the same amount of adrenaline as soldiers going into battle yes yes and then you know it's it's not too hard to believe because you know a lot of people are more afraid of public speaking than dying right so it makes sense so are you re-traumatizing yourself having to do that fight scene every play in so many words yes yes yes I mean that's a very that that's

I think there's more nuanced in that but yeah yeah I would say you know being being an actor like people get into it for all sorts of reasons I know for me personally I feel like I'm very much in in my purpose

I am here to be to be a conduit for for storytelling I'm here to bring messages to people um and i have been completely ushered into this this place that i am in my life it's not something that i that i sought out i've had so many people uh that have been guiding me to the the place that i'm at today it's not it's not a choice i don't by by any means and it's my it's my fifth broadway show and it's like it's not something that i try to uh really make sense of it's

just it's just where I am and a lot of what we do when it gets down to the sort of technical aspect just as an actor there's a lot of psychological stuff that we have to draw on a lot of past experiences trauma being able to experience emotional hardships highs and lows and then sort of like pull those things back up and it's not always a positive experience so I think to recover from that we have to be really really invested in and caring for ourselves like that like i spend so much time recovering like that's that's that's that's that's my free time my free time is about recovery rest uh just placing hands on on my my body just uh stretching every every moment is about um making sure that my my body feels safe reminding myself that i'm

safe, asking myself for permission to do all of this again, just like Rennie said, you know, we get out there and we fight and, you know, I have to then go like, I know in the show I sort of pound my chest every night. I bang on my chest twice in this one specific number and then I leave stage and I, I put, I place a hand right on my heart and I, I literally say I'm sorry I'm sorry that I did this and that it's okay that was that was just a story that we were telling and we trade we're trading our time because it's a job this is a job at the end of the day and it's it's a gift to people it brings people joy but it's also it's also a job and we're we're showing up because we have to we have to work we don't have a choice

interesting though right because you're you're black so yeah the show outside to me is it's largely about class but it's still the same you know obstacles hurdles you know prejudices black people would experience so you say you're safe when you exit to roll but then you go to real life sure so you go from class to race which is you know yeah so do you ever truly feel safe i don't oh you know yeah uh it's yeah so like and then what is what is the definition of safe Come on, now, what is safety? What is safety? You know, we talk about drawing on life experiences, you know.

And some actors, they say they don't. I don't, I've never necessarily believed that, you know. Yes, when you get in that moment, it's you and your scene partners. But you are all that you've ever been. That's never going to not be there. And like for me, you know, we talk about this idea of de-rolling. You get off the stage and you get out of the role. Some people, it's much easier than others.

Me, I go home, I'll put on a movie, I love movies. A movie makes me, I'm thinking about this person's issues now. Gone. And, you know, we talk about the prep that happens before a show, but so much of that prep actually happens after the show. Warming down, warming down your voice. So then when you wake up, you don't feel this horse. You see what I'm saying?

You can only do so much before a show that you can do so much after a show. You know, and to answer your question, no. I you know recently within these past few weeks on a personal level I have not felt safe you know I do the show I bring myself to this place because I don't even want to say tears but oftentimes it's tears you know I you know I'm on stage and I'm seeing another black brother and die in front of me and then another one and then I leave and I see that on TV on social media and you know the one thing that helps me is I I am very much, I'm just going to go in prayer, I'm going to journal, I'm going to watch some movies, I'm going to play some video games, and then I'm going to do what I need to do because at the end of the day, you know, when this show is over, I got another job to do. Whether it's a TV show or a film or another Broadway show, and then we have a whole other set of problems that that piece of work is going to bring.

But also a whole other set of joyous moments that that's going to bring. Are there resources that Broadway provides you then in those circumstances, like, are they're like because I know y'all got like coaches right and people that are helping you with live performance and the effects and all that stuff but is there someone there that's like let me check in on y'all real quick that girl is good like i like that way no yeah i mean uh so so i will say this and this is just in case you have any uh young listeners that are like i want to do i want to do broadway or anybody of any any age because it's not it's not just young people that um work on broadway i will say it is a it is a business first and foremost and i say this is this is

is this is the downside and I wish that uh Broadway would learn from professional sports leagues uh the investment number one should be in the health and safety of the people that are keeping the business alive the performers the athletes and I think the this unfortunate thing about commercial theater is uh all the attention is how do we get butts in seats how do we how do we sell these tickets and not necessarily in keeping the performers healthy. And that's why Broadway sort of has the issues that it has. I think the focus is in the wrong place. So there is an investment. We have a PT person that's there. We have one PT person on site. I don't think that's enough. A physical physical therapist. Physical therapist. I'm so sorry. Yeah. So we have one

PT person, I think there should probably be like three or four. There should be, there should be a mental health professional, like a sports psychologist person on site. I think there should be an acting coach on site. But that doesn't have to do with ticket sales. And I think that that's just a core misunderstanding because the people that are making the decisions about this thing don't actually have the ability or skill set to do the thing that keeps the business. this running they they provide they provide the real estate yeah um and the venue uh that and that's pretty much it uh so i just want the record to show to if rock nation would have got the casino on times square they wanted to do all of that for broadway uh performance just want to

throw that out there that's what i love about window pairs because window pierce has a same mentality yeah he has the same mentality but he also has a doesn't he have an organization or foundation that's trying to develop programs where you guys can have that where Broadway actors and actresses can actually have those resources even down to some of the women because y'all works six days a week

sometimes y'all don't have a break so like for child care and that's why Wendell was partnered with Rock Nation they were going to do all of that they were going to do the child care services the debt relief the mental health services oh you knew that it's called no we didn't we only heard about casino we only heard about

that's why they were out there like That's what made me realize the suck-it-up culture in Broadway when I started looking into the casino and why y'all, not y'all, specifically, but why people were so upset. And I realized that you guys looked at it like, okay, now we're going to have even more pressure to work because we've got to compete with this casino.

But they literally had a whole setup for wellness, health, poor money into you guys. They had a plan for Broadway. They had Broadway tickets for under-served communities. It was like a $20 million proposal that they were going to allocate to purchase tickets in boroughs, like the broadband. like the Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens.

They had Broadway workers support, which was going to be invested in the child care services, debt relief, mental health services. Yes. Damn, man. They never told you all any of that? I mean, we were not,

Broadway actors were not petitioning to stop the casino, but somebody definitely paid to put a big, no casino sign. So, but. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven. Two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over.

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on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, this is about territory. You know, this is, this is, this is, this is, turf, you know, so. I want to ask about that, though, right? Because I love Broadway. I've been going to, since I've been living in New York in the old six, me and my wife, I take my kids, I'll go to a lot of Broadway plays. But I feel like the Broadway audience isn't getting younger.

Like, I feel like it's still a lot of older people that go. And how many times are you going to go see outsiders? How many times are you going to go see Hamilton? How many times can you go see The Lion King? Like, at some point, I just don't feel like the audience is growing. I could be wrong. Well, it's also, I think, that. You know, the element that always affects everyone in this country and others, money.

Money. Money. You know, you know, you have a, there was a show on Broadway this year that set a record, and it is the highest grossing play on Broadway ever. We won't go into the name, but I'm sure we know which one that was. And, you know, it had two very famous film actors in it, you know, a very famous director. and... Why can't we say the name?

Othello. Okay, yeah, it was Othello. It was Othello, yeah. It was Othello, you know. Did Joe Joe, Joe, and I'm not like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm a record. It's what, it is, I think, the highest grossing play on Broadway ever. There were no nominations for that show, as far as I remember, you know. And I think it's the element of who has the money to pay to go.

Like you said, you are taking who, your wife and your kids. That's right. Your kids aren't taking you. They don't have the money. do right so i i would naturally think that as we continue to move in this into the future you know it's true the people who have the money are the people who have more experience you know the people who are older you know so i i and again the whole game is it's a business you know we we are like again why you know i'm sitting here like why didn't we know that all i knew about was the casino

No, that was probably done on purpose. Like you said, no nomination. Right? Yeah, it was the Tony's that it was. I think Broadway is ripe for expansion, especially like with, you know, all the AI stuff, just what's happening with...

Terminator. On screen work right now. I think, you know, studios want to save money on movie production, TV show production. I think this is a really, really great time for live theater to really have a renaissance but it it requires expansion and then you know it's like what is

Broadway people love Broadway what is what is it is it a known brand that is it is it only is it only these theaters or can can Broadway be um more than just these few theaters in the times square area can't can it be more venues like Like people do theater all over the place. And why does it have to take place in these few buildings here? And I think that there's a branding problem and there's an accessibility issue that's been going on for years. And it's not really, it's not really that hard, but there are a few people that have ownership of what that is. And I think that's what needs to expand, because once that ownership is sort of spread out a little bit, I think we can start to think a little bit more freely about how we get people into these spaces.

I agree with you because my biggest fear is that, you know, in the next three to five years, there's not going to be any real investments in that Times Square area. And if you see what Times Square is going out, like Times Square ain't a place that you really want to be. Like, you know what I mean? There's nothing there. It don't feel the safest. It's nothing new and sexy drawing you there. Like you're going for a specific reason, but the most people there are tourists. So in the next three to five years, if there's no new investments in the Times Square, what draw is there other than Broadway?

But how is that going to also impact Broadway? I mean, I always say, like, right now with where things are, what is truly the difference between Broadway and Vegas, a Vegas show? Right. What is, what was it in the 80s and 90s that made Broadway, Broadway and Vegas, Vegas? I can tell you what I think is drawing people to Vegas now. All of the legacy acts from our generation that are actually going there and doing residency, right? So it's the ushers, you know, GZ got what now, New Edition is being there. Ooh, I got to go.

I would love to see that. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about. That's it. Yeah. That's it. That's mine. That's mine.

That's it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So there have to be just something new injected into that area. But you know, you just made me think of that, Alex. You just, I, because I really didn't pay attention to that Broadway is only New York, Times Square. Yeah.

I literally did not even think about that being that way. It can be in L.A. It should be in L.A. It can be somewhere down south. It can be, like, why is it only subjected to? Let's get a Broadway in Atlanta. Times Square, Atlanta. That would be amazing.

Yes. You know, hell yeah, you know, I just didn't think of that until you said that. And it has, I mean, what, what, like, Broadway, you know, whatever it is, there's a, there's like a spiritual sort of like chokehold that it has on people. But, you know, what is it that relinquishes that hold so that people can find that same sort of joy and be willing to support? work that is not in those in those spaces uh theater art art should be art is for everyone right yeah broadway is the height of commercial theater uh it's not the it's not the greatest form of live performance that is happening but it's um it's got the loudest megaphone uh as far as you know advertising budget to to get the message about like come see our show but it's

It's not necessarily, like, cutting edge all the time. It's not necessarily making people really, really think, especially now, it's all about revivals. It's all about... Yeah, it's all about IP. But that's the same thing. That's the big thing with the commercial space. Like, the people with money only want to invest in these sure things. And what's the biggest hit show right now?

It's none of those things. it's Hamilton an original show which is I mean like the story is not original but like it is that idea is wholly original which is crazy because it feels like it's all the things that bro it does not like I'm just speaking from the outside looking at yeah Hamilton is hip hop it's black it's brown it's like we don't want that element over here yeah you have to take risks you have to take risks and you have to try new things to to gain the the trust and love of audiences Like, you have to go there. So, like, you can't be successful if you are playing it safe

and you're, you know, you're just trying to rehash these old things. That doesn't really work on paper, but how do you convince people that hold all the cards to take these risks? Money. And that's why, even another play that I thought generated a lot of great excitement on Broadway was Ain't No More, George Cooper. And it's a phenomenal, phenomenal show. Yeah.

But people didn't show up. to watch it like they should have. Generational talent. Oh, Jordan? Oh, yeah. Generational talent. I still think it's that element of, again, like when my parents were kids,

you had to dress up to go to Broadway. It was an event. Just like going on an airplane, you had to dress up to go on an airplane. Nowadays, and no disrespect, because I'm a firm believer in come as you are. But when you go and you see a line standing outside Broadway,

you know, one fourth of people are dressed up, that's usually the older generation. And then you got all the kids. you know when I was a kid I always thought Broadway is basically like going to church you know like there was no such thing as formal wear it was church clothes right you know what I'm saying so I think nowadays to like I said with the money aspect which has always been a thing and they're trying to make it more accessible but when you start when you start bringing in these IPs that it's like oh kids are going to love this but kids can't afford to see it you know so

then what you have like one or two days a year where it's like discounted tickets how discounted all the tickets. Right. You know what I'm saying? And like we're really cool. In about a week or so, we're going to start what we call our school schedule. So now we're going to have the schools come in during the matinees. Those are the best days.

Because then you see like all the theater, the crazy theater techno stuff you saw. The kids are like, whoa, you know, you know, and it gives us energy, you know. But I don't know what the fix is because it's been like this for so long. Yeah. You know? And it's the same. idea you know we as actors were always asking for things and I understand also where like the producers come from because it's like it's not like you're just going to stop asking for things

when we give it to you so there's that element too I don't I don't know what the fix is I just know like I think the goal for us is to keep bodies that look like us to keep bringing them in whether it is to do theater to work in theater to see theater you know and again Like I said, our lives aren't just theater. You know, we could walk away from the show tomorrow and he could end up doing a movie. I could end up doing a TV show. You know, we have to do everything nowadays, you know.

But I do believe firmly, theater will be the last thing to be taken over by AI if that ends up being a thing. Because you can't replicate real bodies in a real space. Not yet. You just can't. You know, this isn't Westworld. You know, this is in Terminator.

You can't do that yet. And so I think at the end of the day, it's going to be brainstorming, how do we make it more accessible? How do we convince the people who are making the most money from this to make it more accessible? I mean, for me, man, I think what you said is so true. When you look at something like Hamilton, right, if I was a producer in that space, I'd be looking for more of those. So, you know, what's after the Hamilton's?

It's adding people like you, the outsiders. But it's also there ain't no more. It's also the MJ, the musicals. Like if you see that audience coming there and being energized by it and people liking this style of play. Alicia Keys, Hell's Kitchen. Yes. Give me more of that. Give me more of that.

Give me more of a reason to, you know, want to be there. I have a story for you because as I said earlier, uh, also shout out to Miles Frost. I was a part of the original cast. I was a swing and him and I were pretty good friends. And it was interesting because I'm a Michael Jackson stand. I had another show that I could have gone on tour to do and because I said I would never swing. But I said, first Broadway show, and it's Michael Jackson, I'm taking it.

Those first few shows, the audiences were so low. There was not a lot of people in seats. We weren't doing publicity and things like that. And, you know, obviously there was some questionable things out at the time about Michael. After the Tony Awards, all of a sudden, our houses are filled. And I remember sitting there just with the faith of, like, being on Broadway for the first time, the excitement of it. people would be like, man, I'm worried, man.

I'm like, why are you worried? This is Michael Jackson. This is Michael Jackson. You know, the reason they're not in seats is because we haven't put it out there yet. But as soon as we put it out there, and you know what? That's exactly what happens. Because he's big in Europe. Well, he's huge everywhere, you know?

And like, no disrespect to anyone's opinions. But the bottom line is Michael is the goat. And that is why his show, I said, even if it was bad, would make. money because it's Michael Jackson. It just so happened to be brilliant. Our show, I personally believe it is brilliant. There is nothing like what happens in the outsiders on stage in America right now. There's nothing like it. But that's the issue. How do we get people to see it who don't have the money to see it? And I think that's what Broadway should be about. It should be about you know like when the kids come and they see the show and then they're sitting standing

outside and you know we walk outside it's like we're celebrities to them you know I'm like and that's that may be their first Broadway show I don't know what I don't know what the secret is I don't know what it is I don't know what the solution is but well I will say that uh you know that that uh Dallas Cowboys cheerleader show that was on Netflix the document was such a They did a Netflix series that was sort of like the process of like making the team and their tryouts and everything. Every Broadway show. Every Broadway show should have a fully produced series about the audition process about the cuts, allow people, audiences at home that don't, they don't even have to pay for the price of a ticket.

They could just be paying for their subscriptions. I don't know why Broadway tickets are not on a payment plan or carna or afterpay, come on. Come on, no. But you have to leave your tower to like see what's happening on earth to find out that information. But you create a series like that. You allow people to build a relationship.

We have so many things like this. We have American Idol. We have all of these sort of elimination shows. People are familiar with that. You produce those series. You spend the money. You get to people at home. You allow them to build a relationship with everybody.

And then they can go see the people in real life when they go see the show. And you've created stars that people have a personal relationship with. And then maybe if you can afford the ticket, you make your trip to New York and you see it. But I mean, they've kind of done that. They did that with legally blonde. And Greece. Back in the day. And Greece.

Michelle remember a cheer on Netflix yes they did that yes kind of worked all crazy for some of them but they turned into like really big stars like outside cheering and cheerleading and people who don't care about cheerleading got into their world and wanted to go see them cheers they were buying tickets to their competition accessibility that k-pop thing that was uh yeah no the dance academy it was like there's the group cats eye yes there's that group and they had that document they had like a whole competition show you know but no if that would be so small smart if they were people want to know what happens behind people want to know what happens behind

the scene yeah they do yeah they do that's genius though if somebody can pull it together and pull that off hell yeah i think that will make a difference well listen man um i got to see outsiders i'm the only i got really no i haven't seen it yeah i write the book i had to in school that's why when you said the kid's day i was like that's cool that y'all bring them because we have a book they get you yeah yeah i'm coming and again a testament to you know like i said you know my mother and my father we believe that Michael was going to be successful. It is because it's still on Broadway. And when I did Outsiders, you know, I had to leave M.J.

And I know my, you know, my dad was very much about, man, you know, in the future, you may not be able to do that if you don't have the funds to do this. But I was so glad I made that decision because outsiders, the book. Like you said, so many kids have read it. I was like, again, even if the show is bad, it will still make some money because the demographic is there. And these producers know that. They know that, which is why they fund something like the outsider. You know, as opposed to Hamilton, which back in the day probably would have been a risk, you know, because it's like, now you want to do this old American story that the majority of these people are white, but you're going to cast them as people of color? I could only imagine being in the room waiting for the producers, seeing what they say about that, you know what I'm saying?

But wherever we want to admit it, whatever people want to admit it in there, everybody like a little black. They do. They do. They do. They do. Listen, man, thank y'all for joining us. Make sure y'all go out there and check the outsiders out on Broadway. It's every day, right? Monday through Friday? Mondays are day off.

So, yeah, Tuesday through Sunday. It shows a week. Amazing. You all got to beat up white people eight times a week. Yeah. I don't want to give up the play away, but just. Damn, yeah, don't get it up. But, man, hats off.

I'm so proud of y'all brothers. Y'all do this. Y'all do this six days a week. That is hard. I know it's hard. And I know y'all barely have a life. It's fun, though. And I love that it is.

It's fun, too. But it ain't really much that y'all do outside of this, right? Yeah, but it's great that you love what you're doing. And I'm proud of you. I can't wait to see y'all on the stage. And tell them what to follow you. At Rennie underscore Anthony on Instagram. That's R-E-N-N-I-U-N-I-U-N-E-N-N-E-N-E-E-S-E-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-S.

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