The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Andre Ward Talks Canelo Álvarez, Ryan Garcia, New Book; Killing the Image, His Father's Impact +More

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

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Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God.

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So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand-new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, The Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop.

Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history. Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. reforms, and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other.

So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipher on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning, everybody. It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are The Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes, indeed.

Boxing legend and icon, Andre Ward. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Yes, sir. Happy to be here. How you feeling, brother? I'm good, man. Happy to be here. How are you, sir? Man, I'm good, man. I'm juggling, you know, but it's all good. I'm working it out well i hope y'all read andre ward's book already killing the image of champions journey of faith fighting and forgiveness

you've always been like notoriously you know private with your personal life to a certain extent how did you know now was the time to reveal it all in a book man it's been it's been it's been a few years coming you know um you know i've said it many times you know promoting this book like i'm an 80s baby you know and i was raised to not share my business my family's business you know and it's it's not about this day and age because people overshare that people think that like being private is something weird or you know something something sneaky about you what you hiding it's like no that's a superpower to like keep my business to myself and not and not share it so but as i'm getting in the game and i'm mentoring a lot of guys you know i'm trying to tell them like bro i understand what you're going through i've been

there done that and they're like nah you always been like this and it's like nah bro like i'm telling you i probably did more than you so i started getting discontent and start feeling like man they don't have the full story and i was talking to my pastor man and he was like dre you got to kill the image and i'm like what you mean he was like nah who you are is real but it's not who you've always been you can tell that story now well people that don't know who andre ward is and how you got into boxing break that down a little bit what got you into boxing what made you love boxing my daddy my daddy i was uh my first love was baseball you know i was a pitcher in a shortstop and but i was always competitive always you know just competitive like i'm a sore winner and a sore loser and my daddy started telling me about his amateur careers you know he was at 15 and i

was a heavyweight i'm like what you mean you boxed and my dad you know you like i said he raised me as a single parent so i'm like i'm gonna do it i ain't even think about it and that was like that was the first seed that was sung and my dad dad being my dad, you know, and I talk about this in the book. And we're going to do it. We're going to do it right. You're not going to quit. But the first day I walked in that gym, man, it was love at first sight. And I didn't even really understand what that was. I just knew the sights and the sounds of speed bag, the heavy bag, you know, the smells of the gym, know hearing people ha ha hitting the bag and sparring i knew i loved it i knew i loved i wasn't very good when we first started um was he hard on you very but that's why my dad couldn't train me you know my dad was you know he was all or nothing

you know i told you to get your bleep bleep hands up man what you doing move your head and me i was shut down i don't respond to that and shortly after i started we met virgil my godfather lifelong trainer and and verge had a different finesse about him you know he would he would hey baby try this dude get your hands up now i responded to that so my dad was wise enough to pass me on the verge we don't hear those stories enough uh about single fathers yes raising kids how did that impact you not have a mother in the house you always hear about not having a father in the house man the good part of it was uh i got i got to see a man get up every day and go to work my father would always say you know

i got my struggles and my father he struggled with heroin addiction but he was a functional addict and my mother was a full-blown addict you know she was in san francisco i'm in the east bay and she's completely in her addiction and my dad would say i don't care what i'm going through i'm not leaving you know so just seeing him get up every day he owned his own business get up every day and go to work he struggled at night he had that monkey on his back when he came home but that showed me what manhood was about that gave me a strength about me and a confidence about me not having a mother there that um i didn't have that nurturing i was raised by a bachelor i didn't have that that that that gentleness that balance that a young man needs so now when i get into a relationship

i wonder why i got mistrust and distrust for this young lady my wife tiffany that i'm that i say i love i can't seem to trust because the most important woman in my life at the time she wasn't there so it took me time charlamagne to um start realizing the mother wound we talk about father wounds but the mother wound that i had going into adulthood and how that followed me and i didn't realize this until later in life and i had to do a lot of work and you know i'm in a much better place now but not having my mother there it definitely impacted me for sure how did you get over that i'm sorry i was gonna say how did you get over that i mean not having a mom in your life like you said that sensitive side that nurturing side because you know dads especially in that era is you fall get your ass back you better not cry that was

dads back then but you didn't have that other side of mom said well let me let me hug you let me hold you let me make you feel better so how did you get over that i mean the first thing is just identifying what it was it took a lot of lumps to get there you know i'm saying because i'm you know i'm not trusting and i'm blaming her i'm'm not I'm not, you know, loving her the way I should. And I'm blaming her. And it just took me, you know, really when I crossed over and got out the streets and really settled down and gave my life to God, I started really being able to hear my thoughts and really put the patterns together and then remember the struggles that my dad had. Like, man, my dad struggled with this, too. And then getting around, you know, they say a few good men, my pastor and a couple of good core brothers that I have and just them helping me identify certain things and talking through that stuff.

And for me, when I talk through things with the right person, it's cathartic. It's therapeutic. Like even writing a book like it's a lot of pain you pulling off old scabs and old wounds but but the end is is good so really just identifying what it was understanding what it was acknowledging it and then allowing the help to help me i wonder how did that uh how you talk about your your wife but i'm talking about this relationship with women period yeah how did that affect you not having a mom how did you look at women like throughout your whole life man like i said it was just distrust and mistrust yeah yeah did it ever come to a point like where your wife we all on a verge of divorce or separation or was she just always very patient and understood

from the jump oh no we went at it for sure yeah yeah. Yeah. But, you know, you got to realize, too, we started super young. Like, first child, we met in high school. First child, 16 years old. Second child, 18 years old. And I'm living with Virg, like I said, my godfather trainer, and his wife. And she mad. We going at it. And Virg just sit us down. This is how you want to carry yourself as a wife and as a woman.

Dre. And I felt like he was always taking her side I'm like why are you always taking her side you know how you say listen I'm trying to I'm trying to I'm trying to help you man sit down and stop talking and he would just sit us down and break it down he would open the words I mean this is how you supposed to carry yourself now look when he go to the gym and this is again we 17 18 years old 19 years old he go to the gym all day don't as soon as he come through the door start yelling at him and telling him what he didn't do you got to give him a chance to unwind

take a shower eat and then go talk to him so i see her listening then he get on me man you need to stop reacting like that bro you tripping it was that type of counseling that we had that wasn't even like formal counseling but it was him sitting down and this is in the middle of him going through his own personal marital stuff he would sit us down to educate us about what he believed a wife was supposed to look like be like and what a husband was supposed to be like and it was a lot and this is as growing up as teenagers y'all grew up together yeah well she she is from seattle and i'm from the bay and my half brother i don don't call him my half, it's my brother, but you know, we got different,

different moms, different, different, um, same father, different mothers. We went to high school together for, you know,

to, I think his junior year, my sophomore year, he went back to Seattle. I went to go visit him. I met her. That's how we locked in. And you know,

I talk about it in the book. For me, it was love at first sight. I'm like, man, who is that? You know, what's her name?

And we locked in that weekend. And we've been together ever since. But it got to a point where I'm ripping and running. I'm going up there to see her. I'm getting on Greyhound. 20-hour bus ride from North Oakland to Seattle. Because I'm whipped. You know what I'm saying?

And I don't know what love is completely. But but I feel like I love her. And versus look, man, what is it going to take for you to stop running into this wall? And because we got three years, bro, before the Olympics. What is it going to take? I said, I want her with me. And he brought her down. And that's where we live with them.

And I'm trying to chase my dream and clean my life up and get myself together and get ready for these Olympics. But she was also there with me. How did they know you were the one when it came to boxing? You know, because everybody I mean, you go to these gyms, everybody, you know, everybody thinks they're the one. You go to Gleason's and everybody's like the next. How did they know that you were the one out of all that? What was that something that somebody seen? I think it didn't start out like that you know like i said

i think it just started out something i wanted to do and i went in there and i had to really pay my dues the first couple years like i was getting beat all over the ring because you said the olympics like you was ready for it but it got to a certain point where once i overcame in that gym after that first year we call it being battle tested once i got battle tested in that gym then it was like all right let's go to the nationals once i won my first national title at 10 years old in 1996 um i actually beat curtis stevens who from brooklyn brownsville um and he was my rival once i did that i think everybody starts saying to me he could be the one and it sound crazy right i'm 10 years old but i kept winning and i kept winning and then we start you know verging to counter his hand but we got nine years to the Olympics we got seven years and I just I turned into this prodigy and I gave up my

whole childhood to do it so it went from me looking like I might not have it to all of a sudden he's gonna be the one so at a certain point it became a foregone conclusion I'm gonna go to the Olympics win a gold medal turn pro win championships and make a lot of money like that just was the conversation in my home it sounds crazy but that's what it was i want to go back to your parents just for a couple more questions were you ever afraid that the disease of addiction would would get you it did get me oh man it did get me and it wasn't a long time but it was long enough i had a two three year stint where you know some people say generational curses some people say generational patterns they had me and i was already you know

dibbling with weed and starting to drink probably 16 years old i mean it really stemmed from this i believe like i said my mother was a was a full-blown addict my daddy was a functional addict once i started realizing that my dad was struggling and i no longer was buying the lines and i'm just you know he would my dad would go to work all day and he would come home and, and, and, you know, talk to me and my brother and he would go up in that room and he would always had a water run and it'd be like an hour, two hours. And when my daddy came out, his face was flush and he just acting funny, slurring. And I didn't, I didn't understand what was going on. Then I started putting, putting it together. I found a needle. I'm questioning him about that. Then I got to the age where I'm like, man, you getting

high. Then that bitterness and that resentment and all that anger started to rise up so what i do is i go to what's familiar to my family alcohol and drugs but i'm hiding at this point when my father dies at at at 18 years old that was my excuse just to go buck wild and i did let me let me ask you a question jess and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago. And this is a no judgment zone. But I always wanted to know, like, when you see something affect your family in a negative way. Right. I think we were talking about Bow Wow.

Bow Wow was talking about he see Mac Miller do lean and passed away from it. But then he tried it. And I always wanted to know the mind frame of somebody seeing it destroy somebody. But saying, I'm going to try it. I can overcome it. Like, what's that mind frame? somebody seeing it destroy somebody but saying i'm gonna try it i can overcome it like what's that mind frame because you see what it what it's doing and you see what it does but you still say fuck it i'm gonna try it it depends bro you got to realize this force is behind them generational curses it ain't just natural right it's forces behind it and them forces follow you generationally and you don't have to give in to it but once you open

that door you say yeah i'm gonna try this now it's on and i wasn't uh emotionally mentally mature enough to be able to make those decisions all i knew was i was hurting i'm dealing with depression i'm dealing with anxiety um and i don't know that that's what it is all i know is when i drink something or when i smoke something i don't feel that way's what it is. All I know is when I drink something or when I smoke something, I don't feel that way no more. Yeah. That edge is taken on. Temporarily. But once I got myself together and, you know, I got clean and I got I kicked all of that stuff.

Then I started thinking the way you said, I'm never going to touch that again. I got to do something different for my kids. But I wasn't at that stage. I didn't have that kind of strength and power and it's interesting too because my dad my grandfather harold he was an a functional alcoholic great man but he had a drinking problem my dad vowed i never i never touch a drink because my dad only told me he loved me when he was when he was drunk and he never did. But then he turned to hear him. So it's a slippery slope. Yeah. Would you say you replaced one addiction with another when you took up boxing? I wouldn't say I replaced it. I would say, man, I got free.

And I would say that. I just channel. Who I am as a person that drive that focus toward the right thing. You know, I don't look at boxing like an addiction. And I always have tried to. And it's not easy, man. I don't want to sit here and act like it's a it's an easy thing. But I've always tried to keep that sport in its proper place because I knew it would end one day. And I'm fortunate that God always put me around people who would walk that walk.

My pastor, Napoleon Coffman, former Raider, he played All-American in college, six years as a professional running back, and he did. He went into ministry and never looked back. I had him to talk to me. Dre, listen, man, this is what you do. It's not who you are. God's got other stuff for you, bro. Hey, enjoy it.

Give it all you got, but it's not going to always be there. So I had people like that in my ear. So when the time came, the impact wasn't't as hard what effect did losing your father have on you and what was your relationship like i mean my dad was my mother and my father for many many years that was my everything and it's had a profound effect and i still feel it to this day now the sting isn't as uh as strong um but i had times when i'm with my kids and i just drift off and i'm thinking like man my dad could see this right now he lived long enough to see my first child dre jr and tiffany was pregnant with our second child malachi and then he passed uh in 2002

i have moments like that i think about how my career would have been different if my dad was here i think about me helping my dad and giving back to him and buying him a house or or or just you know just just doing life with him i wish i had my father there to talk about life i got questions man even even at 40 years old i just turned 40 i'm still trying to figure it out i think about that stuff all the time charlamagne it was a devastating loss man devastating loss but um i don't want to ever say I got over it, but I've been able to cope with it, deal with it, and, you know, hopefully make him proud with the life that I've lived. Because you retired at 33. Yeah.

Young. Yeah. He didn't know that, right? Yeah. So if your dad was here, you would have gone longer. You believe so? I don't know. Or what?

Like, my dad loved boxing, but he wasn't like, my dad was always focused on always focused on the man you know like he was always focused on me and my character type of play that he was always big on that so i don't my dad i don't think my dad would have been trying to push me to stay in the sport i think it probably would have been the opposite he might have wanted me to end it a little bit earlier than what i did how did you know it was time then because he was undefeated like yeah relatively young in the sport yeah in the sport. How did you know it's time to hang the gloves up? Man, I started feeling it two, three years before I did it. And I would always ask the other athletes, man, how did you know? And they would all say the same thing.

You just going to know. You're going to wake up one day and you don't want to do it. So I started hearing myself, Charlemagne, say that R word. Retired. Three, four years before I would just say stuff. And I'd be like, bro, you hear what you just said? And I would be aware of that. I'm self-aware like, yo, you talking like that.

But I still had to drive. I'm still looking good. I'm still sharp. And went through the lawsuit period with my promoter going through that where, you know, money going out, ain't no money coming in. And I'm like, look, man, I'm going to end this on my terms. They trying to starve me out. If I'm going to go out, I'm going to go out on my own terms my own term my pastor like no i don't do it my wife is too is premature don't do it don't don't send that that letter out you just wrote and got through that had my run with rock nation for three years and uh

it got to the point after the first cover left fight um i thought i was done after that my body was starting to break down you know i've had multiple knee surgeries and stuff and it wasn't boxing related it's just all the preparation all the training and man you just want your freedom back yeah like i'm the type of person that when i do something i really do it like i'm locked in like it's just the way i am i didn't want to be that guy all the time my body's starting to break down my kids were in high school it was like all these mitigating circumstances, Charlemagne, that start adding up. And, you know, I'm a numbers cruncher, so I'm crunching the numbers like, man, OK, if I get this just this much on my money every year. And it wasn't it just like my pastor, like, but you're not going to be able to figure that out. You have to step out on faith. So if you if you want to walk, you got to walk in faith.

If you're going to stay, you got to stay in faith. So I went and talked to him after COVID-19. And I was like, man, I think I'm done. I haven't been in the gym in three months. And that's not like me. I'm like, man, I have no desire to be in no gym. I just fought the dude that they said I wasn't going to fight and won a close decision.

Everybody's like, oh, you lost. I said, man, what am I doing this for? And he sat there. And I just knew he was was gonna co-sign what i was saying he sat there he was like i think i can see you doing one more and i'm like yeah but i ain't got the disease once you go you that fire come back and i remember leaving his office disappointed because every time i talk about retirement every time i talk about getting my freedom back somebody always giving me a reason to stay so it's weird right like i knew i was gonna miss it but i'm also fighting to get out of it and this is after i did this since i was nine so people don't do the math you're just 33 but you got to date that back to nine years old and the toll the toll that that takes mentally physically emotionally the things

that i missed the things that i couldn't be a part of and do, the pressure that I have on me. I hadn't lost a fight since I was 14 years old. That's pressure. So you get to a point that even though I can do this, I don't know if I want to do this. Went and fought Cobbler the second time, and I knew it was time. When you say freedom, what do you mean? The simple things like wanting to eat what you want to eat or not having to be on a training regimen? What do you mean when you say freedom?

Boxing consumes you i feel like it has to if you're gonna be elite like if i was on this trip right now i would have to be doing the math on was the last time i ran like i eat now i try to eat good for my health but i would have to eat good for performance right where you wait at? Well, hey, man, when you coming back? All of that kind of stuff. I was always on the clock. Always in obligation. Always on the clock.

And nobody put more pressure on me than me. So I was tired of myself. I need a break for me because I know how I get with competition. I need a break for me. And it's been a blessing, though. I miss it. And I have to be on the clock and to be able to enjoy my life and say, I don't have nowhere to be. Sometimes I go to the gym. I go to the lab in San Ramon.

My boy Bobby owns it. And they won't see me for a week. Where you at, brother? I said, bro, I got time in. I deserve to miss a week or two if I want to miss a week or two. That feels good to be able to do that. I wouldn't be able to do that if I was active. me ask you a question you said you were undefeated since 14 do you feel like and I ask every boxer when they come up here do you feel like that undefeated

category messes up boxing now where people instead of fighting fights they just they're looking for the perfect fight to keep it undefeated to keep the money coming in to keep the sponsorships to keep the the pay-per-views big because you and floyd kind of effed up the game with that it's messing up the game a little bit but it's also the game the game is messing up the game in some respects and the fighters are messing up the game in some respects right and what i mean is we put a lot of stock into a loss in boxing mma don't do that you got cats that are still revered respected all that they got six seven losses but he's that name he's that guy we respect him it's not like that in boxing if a young guy coming

up if giovante davis shakur stevenson devon haney take a loss oh my goodness they take a loss now it used to be like that though it used to be all these amazing like nobody can you lost they come back and get a rematch but now you lose it's like oh it's finished so so so that's part of it is the game the way the game responds to us and then it is the fighters right like some guys have to fight competition to make good money but if you crack the code and you're able to have a fan base without fighting top competition where's the motivation to fight top competition that's right so you had pretty boy floyd the first 10 years of his career where he had to get it out the mud and prove and show and scratch for every dollar then he crossed over to money may now i can fight who i want to fight so the youngsters they don't want

the pretty boy floyd era they want the money may wear the air that's what the game is doing right now so it's a pro it's pros and cons because for so many years fighters took huge risk and got no money so if i'm an air on the side i'm gonna say man get your money say you the best even though you ain't fought the best i'll respect your hustle you able to get it that way but for so many years it was the opposite so now it's shifted so i think it's it's a fine line right because everybody wants you to go fight that person right now do this well hold on make sure the money right make sure that the business handle will do that so it's pros and cons to the era that we're in right now in boxing i think about stuff like that right and i just use somebody like canelo as an example he's an he's an all-time great but then there's certain fights we wanted

to see like maybe you you you and canelo even now they say him and benavidez and i'm like well if he doesn't fight benavidez do you really put that as a strike against him absolutely really yeah okay and the canelo fans they they call me a hater because i'm telling the truth like me and this guy canel we never had we never looked each other's way different way of class and we shouldn't have. People say Canelo ducked me, he didn't duck me. The only reason why we brought up in the same

category is because we had a common opponent, Sergey Kovalev, when I retired so people start connecting the dots. Now you fought him, fight Dre now, call Dre out. So I don't, I'll never say Canelo ducked me because he didn't. It wasn't even on his radar, it wasn't on my radar. But in terms of his resume, it's a little website called boxrec.com.

And if you know what you're looking at, you can look at them, the opponents that he fought, right? And people say he fought this name and fought that name. Where did he fight that name when he fought him? He 32. He coming off two losses. He 35. Kovalev, when he fought Kovalev, kovalev when he fought kola kovalev was cooked he wasn't the crusher he wasn't a undefeated guy he had lost that and i'm not

knocking the hustle but you lose me when you start saying i'm the best fighter in the world or you lose me when you feel like you don't have to fight the best but then everybody else got to fight the best canelo is a is a really good fighter man but you don't really know how good you are until you fight the other best now you shouldn't fight other top guys every fight out that's not wise and that's not safe you need tune-up fights you need you know you need them kind of fight but when most of your fights are like that come on man well but if benavidez was to beat him now wouldn't people say the same thing oh canelo's older he's been in the ring a long time maybe he lost that's the risk you take

that's the risk you take who's the best the best boxer of all time to you man why that's come on envy is your country falling apart feeling tired depressed a little bit revolutionary consider this this. Start your own country. I planted the flag. I just kind of looked out of like, this is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly easy. There's 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Everybody's doing it. I am King Ernest Emmanuel. I am the Queen of Laudonia. I'm Jackson I, King of Capraburg. I am the Supreme Leader of the Grand Republic of Mentonia. Be part of a great colonial tradition. The Waikana tribe owned country.

My forefathers did that themselves. What could go wrong? No country willingly gives up their territory. I was making a racket with a black powder, you know, with explosive warhead. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Bullets.

We need help! We need help! We still have the off-road portion to go. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. And we're losing daylight fast. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,

where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High.

It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all it's light-hearted pretty crazy and very fun listen to post run high on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts so y'all this is quest love and i'm here to tell you about a new podcast I've been working on with the Story Pirates and John Glickman called Historical Records. It's a family-friendly podcast. Yeah, you heard that right. A podcast for all ages. One you can listen to and enjoy with your kids starting on September 27th. I'm going to toss it over to the host of Historical Records, Nimany, to tell you all about it. Make sure you check it out.

Hey, y'all. Nimminy here. I'm the host of a brand-new history podcast for kids and families called Historical Records. Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Flash, slam, another one gone Bash, bam, another one gone The crack of the bat and another one gone The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Bash, bam. Another one gone. The crack of the bat and another one gone. The tip of the cap, there's another one gone. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history.

Like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus. Nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. And it began with me. Did you know, did you know? I wouldn't give up my seat. Nine months before Rosa, it was called a moment.

Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records. Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha.

And I go by the name Q Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show Civic Cipher. That's right. We're going to discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people to hopefully create better allies. Think of it as a black show for non-black people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence, and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. Exactly. Whether you're black, Asian, white, Latinx, indigenous, LGBTQIA+, you name it. If you stand with us, then we stand with you. Q Ward, and some of the greatest minds in America. Listen to Civic Cipher every Saturday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone. This is Courtney Thorne-Smith, Laura Layton, and Daphne Zuniga. On July 8, 1992, apartment buildings with pools were never quite the same as Melrose Place was introduced to the world. It took drama and mayhem to an entirely new level. We are going to be reliving every hookup, every scandal, every backstab,

blackmail and explosion, and every single wig removal together. Secrets are revealed as we rewatch every moment with you. Special guests from back in the day will be dropping by. You know who they are. Sydney, Alison, and Joe are back together on Still the Place with a trip down memory lane and back to Melrose Place. So listen to Still the Place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You're asking a man who's ranked number 12.

I know. I'm just asking him. Come on, Envy. All time? Yes, sir. It's tough. We can go back and forth about that forever. I look at it like, who are my greats?

Right? Like, who are my goats? And Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather. That's my era. I'm a hybrid of all three of those guys. And, of course, you got the Sugar Ray Robinsons if you're talking all time. You got Muhammad Ali if you're talking all time. But why those three individuals?

Why Bernard? Why Floyd? That's who I gazed at. That's who I took from. Why Roy? I'm a hybrid of all three of them. I can shift and be Bernard Hopkins one round. I can be Floyd Mayweather the next round. I can be a young Roy Jones the next round.

That's who I looked up to. That's who I stole from the most. So those are my three goats. But I'm also, like I said, Robinson, Ali, you can't leave them dudes out. And other people. Salvador Sanchez, you know, Mexican fighter that, you know, he died in a car accident, lost his life very, very early. Great fighter. He would have continued to win.

So we can go back and forth about that all day long, but I look at it like, who are your greats? Who are your goats? Yeah. I want to go back to just Canelo real quick. Who hasn't he fought? There's a lot of guys he hasn't fought. He fought Triple G three times. Maybe I just know too much.

Yeah, that's what I'm asking like maybe i just know too much perspective like what's missing from his he didn't even want to fight golefkin hbo pressed him made golefkin get in the ring after one of his fights and call him out so he had to respond and do that and most of their fights were controversial so it's like canelo's a good fighter man but like and that's why even when people talk about floyd i don't i never say floyd duck this one to duck that one floyd had 10 years of giving y'all them kind of fights and he still took some tough fights even when he was getting older but he earned a right to pick and choose at a certain point i'm the show canelo hasn't you got to fight good and then you got to pick then you got to fight a guy that's not it's too much ducking yeah it's too much man bro i can go down the list like it is it but

it keeps happening though like this guy could rise up and then he'll duck that dude oh he just wants a payday like yeah they want a payday that's that's the position what you think this is so i just feel like man when it's a guy that's a threat like even even dimitri bivar to do you lost to you got to give him credit for going up and wait but i feel like he miscalculated though that was a miscalculation and if you're the all-time great don't you want to get that back he says he wants to rematch but you know what's so interesting that's that's the key though he yeah he says he wants to rematch it's not gonna happen so you got you got benavidez right now or you got terrence crawford right oh there's no credit if i fight terrence crawford well you fought amir khan that was way smaller than you and you knocked him out cold in las vegas at the t-mobile and i was there you didn't feel no of way about that. But now Terrence Crawford is too small and you won't get credit.

We got to we got to be consistent. So I'm qualified to speak about this stuff and speak out against it because it's all kind of double standards in the game. So I try to mind my business. And then when I'm asked about it, I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be on a good fighter. Box office got his country behind. You got to give him credit for all the marketing and the money. Man, get that.

But when you start talking about breaking down these resumes and start talking about who's the greatest and you mentioning yourself with other all-time Mexican greats, you got to have a conversation about that. So you don't think those two fights will happen? Crawford and Benavidez? It's not looking like it. Damn. But like the Gollefkin situation if they if they press him enough he may give in but listen bro get your money but at some point every now and again you got a total line and so you you the next one come on and he's just not

doing that there's no there's no appetite to do that is there any boxer that you looked at and be like i would have loved to fight him ah man it's hard for me to talk about the greats because I got a lot of respect for him but I would have loved to have fought Floyd just the styles really my three Bernard and Floyd at what weight

though huh at what weight it don't matter just a fantasy matchup yeah Bernard Floyd and Roy I would have loved to have seen my style against their style. It would have been a mirror of themselves. So, yeah, that's probably the three that I would have loved to get. And really, you know, the fight that should have happened was me and Golovkin. That's a fight that should have happened.

Why didn't it happen? He didn't want it. You're scared. I didn't say scared, but't want it just scared yeah i'm gonna say scared but you you were the boogeyman i just think man guys know they've been around the game long enough where you don't have to be an analyst to be an analyst they know this guy's a problem for me and i'm not a bully in the game you know he was a he was a smaller weight class than me he was 160 i was 168 but i take stuff personal when you start saying that I'm the boogeyman everybody's scared of me okay then you say I'll fight anybody I'm 160 I'll fight you at 168 which was my weight class or 175

now you're gonna get my attention I'm gonna speak out and then when we my team sends you an offer right and you didn't and you oh well maybe two years from now man come on bro I just don't like or respect that kind of stuff we're fighters bro this is what we do right you could lie to me but you lying to the fans you know your promoter he he to this day when i speak about this stuff they get mad oh you're lying they go crazy on social media why are you so emotional if i'm lying what's wrong i got emails right now that has them turning down a fight my lawyer said they turn the fight down in less than 15 minutes wow so it's just sometimes a lot of talking man and then when it's time to walk it don't the song and the dance don't line up i didn't know if oakland make andre ward the man

he is today i'll be honest i've heard you talk a lot i ain't never heard you sign this oakland like I just sound like you're about to rap yeah he do that's just your accent I feel I don't hear it obviously but yeah y'all from the east you from Baltimore? Baltimore yeah I can hear that we from the Carolinas we was talking about it in the back my boy Tate was like yeah I can hear that Baltimore

man it's just man the city as a whole just blue collar and you know my other brothers from you know like Marshawn Lynch And it's just, man, the city as a whole, just blue collar. And, you know, my other brothers from, you know, like Marshawn Lynch and many others that come from Oakland, man, we just, like, it's really about action, bro. It's really not about a lot of talking. That's how I carry myself in the game, you know, just blue collar.

And you got that grit and that determination about you. That's what Oakland represents to me. And I love it because they say we a small market, but I feel like we got some of the best talent in the world. And I love people saying, oh, that's that boy from Oakland. And that's what they used to say in the amateur, you know, oh, he from Oakland. Because, you know, I'm around kids, the Nationals,

you got kids from everywhere, Midwest, East Coast. And they would always, man, you talk weird. I'm like, y'all talk weird to me. Like, and they think California is LA. I'm like, it's not LA. I'm in the Bay. And I had to educate them on what the Bay was. I love representing my city, man.

It's just blue collar, Charlie, man. Just get it out the mud. Other than the accent, you know, and getting it out the mud, what from Oakland stays with you at all times? I just think the mentality, like I said, just blue collar, just willing to roll up your sleeves and work. You know, you got some places where it's a lot of show. Right. I think it's what a type of people that when the lights come on and it's time to go to work, we're ready. When did you realize you were turning generational curses into generational blessings?

That's a good question, man. I think when I start allowing God to get me together, when I start, my eyes started to get clear and I started to see things right. When I started to learn what it meant to mourn my father's death, didn't know what that meant. When I started being honest about where I was and being honest about my emotions and feelings when i started acknowledging the mother wound and how i was affecting my relationship with tiffany like when i started like that that's i believe that's being a real man when i was able to humble myself and really start acknowledging these things i started sensing that i was i was shifting the paradigm the paradigm was shifting and generationally the curse has to stop with somebody and i believe that god was using me and my wife to stop a lot of the things that have been in our family generational even even poverty certain poverty mentalities and i just believe i was

helping me and my wife to break that so self it started with me i gotta get me right i can't lead a family i can't leave my wife i can't leave my kids i can't do it unless i'm getting myself together perfect by no means but i'm saying them blatant things and blatant sins and things that generational things that we're talking about i can't do those things and be the proper leader but when it comes to god do you remember the moment or event that caused you to like really strengthen your faith and your belief in god my father always gave me a foundation in the word it's interesting because i didn't grow up in a church like that but my father had an understanding he would open up the bible and say man you got you know i probably gave my life to

god probably like 20 times when i was a kid just making sure that it worked you know i'm saying and just young not knowing no better and but i always had a respect and a reverence for god and you know when i started getting notoriety like you know i'm aging myself right now but the newspapers would come to the to the school and they would want to do an article on me and my brother my dad would be like man you make sure you give god glory and stuff and i didn't really fully understand it i was scared to do it at that time my brother he was outspoken this dude we're christian i'm like bro shut up bro like man you always like i wasn't there he was there but that's where it started and but that was my father's faith and then when i started going through life and then i lost him

i was angry at god i didn't want nothing to do a church god nothing like you allowed this to happen i didn't acknowledge that i was already slipping and tripping before my dad died it was his fault and every time i would smoke something every time i would drink something every time i'd be in a situation i felt like my conscious was still there i wasn't completely gone but i would think man you're not supposed to be doing this bro and verge used to tell me and i talk about this in the book verge was not only a boxing trainer but he worked in a probation department at juvenile hall for 25 years and verge had and has a gift for young men he can look at you and say something

make you laugh but also get at you at the same time and he used to sit there in the kitchen man in uh in east oakland man where we lived and he would say he's like brother you ain't gonna get god ain't gonna let you get away with nothing and this is when i'm in the thick of it and i would get mad and be like man why you hating on me man i'm just trying to do my thing and live my life you say look man i hear you but i'm telling you god ain't gonna let you get away with nothing and sure enough i'd be in a car full of dudes you come here i couldn't get away with nothing i could do a little bit but every time i try to step it up so those things were starting to chip away at me and i knew even though i'm still doing i knew like man this ain't gonna last long i'm not gonna have a long career in the streets i'm just not so it was that kind of stuff charlamagne when i'm in the thick of my situation and i'm rejecting him he's still running after me

right and it wasn't to the point to where life was really happening had another child um and stuff just start piling up i had to look up and have a conversation with god man i had uh i was off some ecstasy and i talk about this in the in the in the in the beginning of the book and my heart racing and i knew i was gonna die i just knew it and it took that charlemagne for me to get through my anger get through my frustration when the pressure hit i knew where to go and i looked up and had a conversation with god and essentially made a deal with him i mean you let me live i'm done i'm tired i'm sorry forgetting i i had this and i made it through that obviously wow and that was the start

of my journey did it happen overnight no but i started softening my heart i started being open to god again i started being i started listening Verge a little bit more, you know, the window was closing for the Olympics. I'm probably two years out at this point. And it was little by little, man, but slowly, but surely, man, when I saw God supernaturally take the desire and the taste for alcohol, drugs, and everything else from me, some people may have to go to a program and I don't knock that everybody got their different stuff. But when I saw that happen, I was like, man,

this stuff is real. When I started to develop my own faith in my own relationship and I started to sense and feel God speaking to me and helping me. And it wasn't just my father's faith no more. That was, that was, that was a memorial. I'll never forget that.

I'll never forget that. And then giving me the power to sustain me all these years in a sport like boxing, being a young father and a young husband. Like, man, I'm not that good. Like without a relationship with God and having that power working in my life. Oh, you're going to be reading about me on the bottom of the ticker for sure. In my mind, one part of my mind says, oh, you would have held it together. You would have been fine. But the other part of me saying you're not that good so that's the imposter syndrome yeah so it's

it's all the process that got me to his feet and then everything that ensued after i've seen too much charlamagne and i've experienced too much to go back i i just had personal experience was like dude and i'm not the kind of person that can just read a rule book and then try to follow it like i need to feel something tangible something that's real i felt that and i feel that to this day what made you start going to like seek therapy and things of that nature because a lot of people that's very spiritual they say oh god is enough what made you realize i needed something else well i got great counselors at my church i chose to go that route because i wanted a godly perspective with it you know i don't knock anybody else you got to know what's good for you right um but and it just

kind of naturally happened i wasn't like all right i'm gonna make a conscious decision i just started talking to my pastor and him being who he is a wise man man. He's like, well, tell me about that. And I'm all of a sudden in a counseling session and didn't even realize that I was in a counseling session. But I knew I felt better after talking about it. And then him. Well, man, you may want to think about that, man. Man, I see. I know you're going through that right now, but God's going to see you through.

And he had vision beyond what I was going through. That kind of stuff stimulated me, gave me hope. It gave me the ability to believe that I can do i can do this this husband thing i could be a father man i could i could be in this career still represent god and and not be weird obnoxious about it but just live the life in front of i can do this so it just kind of happened charlamagne it wasn't really a conscious decision but i knew i felt better when i did it i knew i felt lighter i knew it gave me hope and i do it to this day when i feel that pressure hit yeah i have my relationship with god but i got a core group of brothers that i call i got i got a few people at my church i can put past i need to holler at you i need to come what's up what's going on come to the house

i need that so i just begin to see the value of it over time you think every boxer should have uh a therapy corner where people they can talk to because they're going through so much yeah for sure yeah i think probably probably most probably everybody yeah and then like everybody else you said god sends you people sometimes you know what i mean like for that like you said you received counseling the church didn't even know that that is where you know that you were in counseling god will send you people you know just like that but speaking of what Envy just asked you I just reported a story about Ryan Garcia and everything he's going through now

we were having a conversation earlier about should they call his fight because he seems to be you know just going through so many things and just you know and publicly we're seeing it you know what I mean like how what would you what do you have to say to speak to that or he's in a tough spot right now because he's got this fight

coming up and you do not have time for self-care or you gotta prepare for war so it's it's it's this stuff is coming at a bad time and it didn't just come this up it's probably been going on yeah and it's just showing itself now i don't know about the social media stuff and if that stuff is him because he did put out a video saying that he didn't have access to his stuff yeah but the things that i've heard him say it seems odd it seems off and i'm not trying to minimize or marginalize what he seems to be going through but you know his father was like oh he's just trolling the wrong way i've heard him say things about trolling so i don't believe it's just trolling but you you know

he's got a lot of followers he's got a big following you wonder like man is this some of this stuff yeah but I think my gut is saying that it's real and it's just he's no longer uh able to to to hide it or keep it behind the scenes uh he's in a real tough spot right now because of this fight but I think and I don't know if he should cancel the fight or if he's going to be able to get through a training camp it's a lot it's pressure man every day you are grinding physically mentally you taking punches you dishing punches you got some type of training session and it's not just oh I'm just going to work out just to sweat like you you pushing your body past the limit two three times a day that's a lot when do you have time to focus on yourself you don't and he's not so it is it's really sad to see and it's really concerning to see because um young kid with a lot a lot of

money big following but it's clearly something going on and then also with that image a big image that they that these young boys have to live up to now because we have the internet we have the social media we have fan bases that are built off of you know their money their social media how they look so speaking to your book killing the images that which you're more so talking about yeah yeah i think what that is just you know by me essentially telling on myself and sharing this side of my story it may kill some images that people had man i thought he never man i couldn't see him doing that that may do that but that doesn't mean that who i am is is not real i'm just giving you the other side of the coin right

and when you talk about the social media stuff that's why for me like like it's not hard to create a viral moment for me like like the way my brain works. Like I know I can come in here right now and say certain names and get a reaction and get more clicks and views, right? That's not how I'm wired. And I don't, I don't get down like that.

Feel free for us. Yeah, I know. Feel free. I just want to slap a co-host right now. It's all kind of stuff. It's all kind of stuff. You can say,

I'll tell a tape. My boy tell you about, I said, bro, it's not hard. It's not. I try to let any viral moment i had be authentic and be real but what you win the people with you got to keep them with and ryan won the people over with sharing everything overly sharing right so now he's going through it he doesn't even feel like he can go through it in private he feels the need to like bro why are you sharing that why you do that video who told you to do that

video well i gotta let the people know so he's in a tough spot because what you win the people with you gotta keep them with that and that's the the tough spot you see him in right now he can't even he doesn't even know how to deal with life and deal with himself offline he's too young yeah and you can tell he's not he's not been told because i can listen to you and hear you share certain things and say you you shouldn't you shouldn't that you shouldn't have shared that now you shouldn't have said that why are you doing this at the press conference he's young he don't understand so he feels like it's all fair game and he don't realize that's hurting him even more yeah man that's so interesting because when i think about ryan i started liking ryan because he was a good

boxer yep right and and so the trolling and stuff that's kind of new to me and i feel like that came after he lost the tank and it's like you can't distract people from that loss you just gotta move on and i think all of this talk of good point devin gonna beat you up i think he's messing with him he don't want to experience that again yeah yeah to beat you up, I think it's messing with him. He don't want to experience that again. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. I think it is a distraction. Dude, like when you lose, people say, oh, you ain't lost.

But I remember my last loss. They say, you ain't lost in a long time. I remember it, which is why I ain't lost since. Yeah. It's like, bro, it's like a death. You mourning that thing, especially when it's a high profile loss and you get stopped the way that he did you think it's over we going home right you still living with that you waking up sunday morning you got to get on your flight now that that that last night what you did or

didn't do is it's it's starting to sink in the next coming months and year all you hear and see is the loss you got knocked out man shut up we don't want to hear that you got man you said you was gonna win you it's it so he's he's in a form of like mourning right now good point about him trying to distract people from it but he ain't doing it the right way and i don't know who he has around him to pull his coat tail and say bro little bro we not doing that that we not doing that well i gotta tell the people no you don't you need to win that's how you're gonna get over that loss right focus on this but and i say the other thing too i think that you were you were asking about y'all was asking about should

fighters get counseling and different things like that i think like most people should probably all people like i said should have somebody that they can talk to you got to be able to like life is gonna happen right and just because you're not talking about it don't mean you're not going through it but the alcohol and the drugs. That I'm even seeing in here and fight like it was a thing, but it's even more a thing. Right. Yeah. And some of that is trying to escape. Some of that is trying to deal with the pressure. Some of that is not having a counselor, not having a relationship with God and trying to deal with this pressure. But the only way I know how to deal with it is to go to the bottle or go to the weed or go to the drug or go to the women.

And you just I just you just again, I'm sounding like the old head. You live long enough and you just start to see like, man, you just don't want to have a good time. You running from something. And I try to do the best I can. I don't you know, I'm not in these guys business or nothing like that. But when my phone rings or they reach out, man, I try to give them what I what I had. And that's the power of and you talk about this a lot, Charlamagne, of of telling my story. Like I've had so much feedback about, dude, I had no idea. Like, can I talk to you about this?

Like I've had youngsters that I've been talking to for years and we normally only keep it boxing because they want to look a certain way in front of me. But now that I revealed that, can I talk to you about this, bro? I'm struggling with this. We need somebody to talk to, man. Absolutely. Yes, sir. Final question, because I want people to go watch the documentary

SOG, The Book Award, and pick up the book, Killing the Image. But on the back of the book, you have, What If I Die? Why did you have that question? That was the moment that I was telling y'all about where I felt like I was going to overdose. Yeah, that was the moment.

And for me being hard hit at that time in my life, that's what it took, unfortunately. But it's a moment I'll never forget. And, you know, I hope that that, you know, I just like it's a lot of inspiration out there. And I think we should have people who are inspiring. We got it. We got to be inspired. But I tried in this book, Charlemagne, and to give a roadmap. I want you to get inspired, but I also want you to have some practical things that you can take from my life, hopefully to help you through your situation. That maybe by reading my story, you can see beyond your situation. And I hope that the book, the book did that because this book will make you laugh

it'll make you cry it inspire you but but it also give you like i said some tools and some weapons to be able to fight your fight people think that fighting is just for barbaric people or people who got that mentality we're all fighting something and we're all gonna have to fight at some point time all of us gonna have to toe that line and say man i'm resisting this i'm not i'm not gonna give in to this it could be an addiction it could be a lifestyle it could be family members it could be anxiety whatever it is so this is not a boxing book just like i would tell people when i was pushing the dock it's not a boxing doc people always want to make it that this is the human interest story man this is about a young man who had a dream who almost lost it all and gave his life to God.

And it's just been trying to walk this thing out and, and, and do life. It, but just do it better than my family members did it. And hopefully my kids will do it better than I did. That's right. You have it.

Andre Ward. Thank you for coming, brother, man. Killing the image bookstores everywhere right now, everywhere you buy books, go get it. That's right.

And it's the breakfast club. Good morning. Wake that ass up in the it. That's right. And it's the Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. In the morning. The Breakfast Club. Had enough of this country? Ever dreamt about starting your own? I planted the flag. This is mine. I own this. It's surprisingly

easy. 55 gallons of water, 500 pounds of concrete. Or maybe not. No country willingly gives up their territory. Oh my God. What is that? Bullets. Listen to Escape from Zakistan. That's Escape from Z-A-Q-istan on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all

about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, my undeadly darlings. It's Teresa, your resident ghost host. And do I have a treat for you. Haunting is crawling out from the shadows and it's going to be devilishly good. We've got chills, thrills, and stories that'll make you wish the lights stayed on.

So join me, won't you? Let's dive into the eerie unknown together. Sleep tight, if you can. Listen to Haunting on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. Niminy here. I'm the host of a brand new history podcast

for kids and families called Historical Records. Executive produced by Questlove, the Story Pirates, and John Glickman, Historical Records brings history to life through hip-hop. Each episode is about a different inspiring figure from history, like this one about Claudette Colvin, a 15-year-old girl in Alabama who refused to give up her seat on the city bus nine whole months before Rosa Parks did the same thing. Check it. Get the kids in your life excited about history by tuning in to Historical Records.

Because in order to make history, you have to make some noise. Listen to Historical Records on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? This is Ramses Jha. And I go by the name Q. Ward. And we'd like you to join us each week for our show, Civic Cipher. That's right. We discuss social issues, especially those that affect black and brown people, but in a way that informs and empowers all people. We discuss everything from prejudice to politics to police violence,

and we try to give you the tools to create positive change in your home, workplace, and social circle. We're going to learn how to become better allies to each other. So join us each Saturday for Civic Cipherpher on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast