The Breakfast Club - INTERVIEW: Bozoma Saint John On Embracing Change, Dating As An Alpha Female, New Beauty Line, RHOBH + More

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Bozoma Saint John To Discuss Embracing Change, Dating As An Alpha Female, New Beauty Line, RHOBH. Listen For More!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on the R&B Money podcast, Tank and Jay Valentine sit down with the one and only Snoop Dogg. I wanted to be here personally to come give y'all your flowers and let y'all know y'all doing an amazing job. I love the outlet. I love how y'all treat the artists that come on here. I love how y'all speak to the realization of R&B music and R&B money. Snoop Dogg on R&B Money.

Listen to this episode on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey. With Up First from NPR, though, it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 easy minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, and a casual tone that you can take in with breakfast. Begin your day informed, ready and refreshed. Begin your day with Up First. Subscribe to Up First from NPR on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Calling all Yellowstone fans. Let's go to work. Join Bobby Bones on the official Yellowstone podcast

for exclusive cast interviews, behind the scenes insights, and a deep dive into the themes that have made Yellowstone a cultural phenomenon. Our family legacy is this ranch. I'm an architect of my life. Listen to the official Yellowstone podcast now on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. This is Lexi Brown. And Mariah Rose. And we've got a new podcast, Full Circle. Every Wednesday, we're catching you up on what's going on in women's basketball. We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea. Full Circle is an iHeart women's basketball. We've got you with analysis, insight stories, and a little bit of tea.

Full Circle is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. Listen to Full Circle on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Wake that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club. Morning everybody, it's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the guy, we are the Breakfast Club. Lauren LaRosa filling in for Jess.

And we got a special guest in the building. We have Bozema St. John. Welcome back. How are you? Thank you, thank you. I'm doing all right. How you feeling? Good to see you.

Thank you, nice to see you. I'm sending you positive energy and love and light because we just saw that you lost your house in the LA wildfire. Yes right in Malibu. You said you found out on social media? Yes, I found out on Twitter, a video. Yeah somebody just driving down PCH and I was like oh that's my intersection. Oh shit there's no house. Did you get a chance to go back to see what whatever was there to rubble if you could find anything? I haven't been able to be back yet. So it's like, you know, everybody's just waiting to see when we're allowed to go back and see

what is left. Although, you know, there's nothing left, but I think there's still something about the grief process where you just need to see it, just to know yourself that it's totally gone. I was gonna ask you that. Do you feel like, is it a grief? It is a grief. Yeah, because it's a loss. I was gonna ask you that, do you feel like, is it a grief? It is a grief, yeah.

Because it's a loss, it's a big loss. You know, it's like, I think, you know, people have said things like, oh well, at least you have your life, and you know, it's just things, and you can replace it. I'm just like, you know how long it took me to get there? Mm, yeah, yeah, yeah. 25 years of hard work.

Did you lose pictures, passports, all that? Like so many things. When you evacuated, what were you able to grab, if anything? Nothing. Well, first of all, I wasn't even in the country. You were in Zambia. I was in Zambia. Yeah.

Your birthday, right? Yes. Happy belated. Thank you so much. Happy belated. 22? Yeah, thank you. That's a lie.

But it was like, it was just, it was so scary and overwhelming because, you know, all you know is that the fires are coming, you don't know which direction they're going in, and the evacuations happen so quickly that, you know, the people who are in their homes, like really, you don't have time to think. I think we've all had that moment, right, where you've been like, oh, you know, it's like, if there was something like, who would you save, or what would you take? And you make those theories, but in reality, it doesn like if there was something like who would you save or what would you take and you make those theories? But in reality, it doesn't work like that. There's this panic and

For me since I was so far away. There was really nothing I could do and who's I gonna send to go get myself I was gonna do that, you know, so you got to let it burn Did you see online which I thought was was was horrible and detestful people were saying, you know When rich people or wealthy people were losing their cribs, good for them, they could get another one and all that. You know, and I'm thinking like, it doesn't matter if you're wealthy, if you're not,

you're losing things that care and mean the most to you. So how did you feel when you're seeing that? Like now you just lost all your property, you lost all your things, and then you see this online. Well, it pisses me off, because it's like who you think gave me the house? Right. You know, you think somebody just came here

and gave me the house? You don't know that I worked for it? So what if you worked for it? You should just lose it and it should be all right? No, of course, I'm sad, I cry, I'm mad. You know, it's like, yes, of course, I'm in a better position, because I will be able to replace things,

I will be able to rebuild, but who wants to do that? That's right. You know, we got enough going on. I don't want to have to do that too like can I get some peace? Just want some rest and so it's like it makes me upset when people say stuff like that. What was the most important thing or the one thing that you you are so upset that you couldn't get or that you missed out on or you lost? You know to be honest I haven't even really thought that far into it I think it would be too

overwhelming for me right now. But what happens is that every once in a while, I'm just like, ah, damn, that thing was over there. That was there. You know what I mean? I go reach for something, I'm just like, ah, it's gone. And that's the part that is really upsetting, because it could be such small things.

And then there's the really big stuff that you can't replace. Me and my wife were talking the other day when we seen all we were like you know what would we grab like we try we try to start setting things up in the house and she's like well I gotta go get the photo albums I gotta get the pictures I need the memories and then she was like but damn what about Mike the kids first outfit you want to be able to pass that on and then you're thinking what about this I'm not the kids I got 13 of them. You know what? It's just two of y'all. And you're like, baby girl, how's she dealing with all of this?

Because she's young and explaining it to her. She's 15. And I think it's a tough time. You're already a teenager with all these emotions going on. But she has friends who have also lost their houses. So at least she has some community that she can talk to about shared experience. But how do you comfort a child who's like, well,

what if the fire comes again? Then what? So it's just a tough thing. So what happens with school? What happens with school and living? Well, first of all, was that your main house? Cause you got money. No, it was my second house.

Oh, your second house, okay. I love that for you. All right. Yes, thank you. Thank you, sis. They, it's my second house. Oh, your second house. I love that for you. I love it for you. Thank you, sis. They definitely not going to feel sorry for you on Twitter now. I feel like anybody, the only reason why I say that, I don't know any of the other celebrities personally, but for me when I moved to LA, you were one of the girls that a lot of us

were watching when you were in marketing and now you're on the show. And you worked hard for what you have. So I love that it's my second house and you can still go through things as well so exactly and the thing is that the second house it's like look I still had to fight for that house I still had to battle racist neighbors for that house I still had to put my house in a trust inside of a trust so nobody would know a single black woman was buying the house and so I'm like yes it's my second house but like look I should have a third house, I should have a fourth house.

All these people get it, so why can't I have it? And so yeah, I get pissed when it's like people are like, oh, well, that's all right, you know, you have another one. No, I want more, and we deserve more. So it's like when I get it and then I lose it, I want everybody to be pissed off. It's like, you know, we don't get a chance to buy in these neighborhoods. And so when we do and then we lose it, we should all be pissed. Because then by when it's your turn?

And then you can't buy it. That's right. How are you able to show up and do this though? Cause I mean, the show must go on, right? You got your new beauty brand, E-Bot Bars, you promoting the reality show, but then you got all of this heaviness on you. How are you able to even show up

and just do what you're doing right now? Well, unfortunately I'm not unused to grief. Yeah. You know, it's like I've faced a lot of it in my life and one thing I know for sure is that the sun's gonna come up the next day, people are gonna keep moving, and if you don't move with it, you'll get left behind.

You know, and it's like, look, I think one of the things for me is that, yes, I do wanna rebuild, yes, I do want another house, yes, I want more things in my life, and how am I gonna get it? Nobody's gonna give it to me. That's right So I gotta get up and go do the work myself. And what made you do a real housewives of bebly hills? Why did you jump into that? That's the first thing I said

I was like, I didn't think it was boredom I just thought I was like well, maybe this is gonna like lean into like future business like, well, maybe this is going to lean into future business courses. I said she was promoting something. I said she got something. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,

I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said,

I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I us, you know, that it's like, look, the corporate girlies who are ambitious, who are smart, who are loyal and will defend their friends and all of that, they don't exist in this space. No disrespect to anybody else, but they just don't.

And so I'm like, well, I've already represented in so many different spaces, like why not do it here? And also work on a bigger platform and also do things that I want to do in a different way. So why not? I guess we always look at you as an executive like I want to run down some of your resume you were the global CMO of Netflix, CMO of Endeavor, CEO, CBO of Uber, head of marketing of Apple Music and iTunes, head of music and entertainment marketing at PepsiCo. Am I missing

anything? God's favorite baby. So what would you say the key to all of that success has been? And do you prefer being behind the scenes or in front of the camera? Yeah. Oh, that's an interesting... I mean, I think the key to success always has been that I truly am myself. You know, I think that a lot of people like to say that. It's hard to do. Because when you're in these spaces, conformity is what wins. You know, you've got to just be like everybody else.

You've got to wear the gray suit like everybody else but anybody who has seen my career or seen me walking around has known that like I am a black girl first and foremost. I represent exactly who I am. I don't try to pretend not to be. And so for me it's like that has been my key to differentiation and what has made me successful. And so now moving out of that space is just another unexpected thing. You know, it's like, look, you read my resume and it sounds great because people are like,

oh my gosh, you did that and that and that. But it's like, if you were there with me day to day and were advising me, you'd see that people never cheered me on, even when I made jumps. Like people never did. So when I left Apple to go to Uber, people were like, why would you do that? Like why would you leave Apple?

And at the time I went to Uber, was like the company was going down in flames. They were like, why would you do that? And I was like, yeah, because first of all, y'all think that I'm getting these jobs as some sort of token. And so what I'm gonna show you is actually I'm the greatest marketer alive.

And that a company that is on its knees, I'm going to help rebuild. And when I do that, you can't ask me another question. And then it's like, okay, I moved from Uber to Endeavor, and then Endeavor to Netflix. And Netflix, I joined right at the start of the pandemic. And people were like, oh, why would you do that? Like, it's such a big company, like the spotlight is on it.

If you fail, you're gonna fail big. And I'm like, yeah, but if I can do that, then again, you can't ask me whether or not I can do this, right? Because now I've done it at four different companies. Who's going to deny me? And then I was inducted into the Marketing Hall of Fame, and I was like, yeah, OK. There, I'm done.

Retire. Thank you. Well, the Real Housewives franchise is shooting down. So I guess you're there to save the Real Housewives franchise, because that franchise seemed like it was going down. Well, I think that it deserves a reinvention. I think the relationships between women has been really shown poorly in ways that are not helpful.

I'm not saying that there's not conflict. There's always conflict. There's conflict in the boardroom. Okay, the fights I had in the boardroom were far scarier than any fight I've had on this damn show. Do you know any of those women? Oh, yeah. Were you friends with them? I knew one of them, yeah.

Lisa Vanderpump. Oh, okay, because people thought that your connection to the show was Lisa Vanderpump because you guys were at that awards ceremony in LA. I know, we were like at one event together in LA like seven years ago. It was like you were like two other people in the picture. So they thought, I thought that maybe you knew her because she does so much business in Beverly Hills and then she ushered you into the show, but no. No, no, no. Sutton you into the show. But no.

No, no, no. Suddenly because just socially. Got you. You know? We know each other that way. But yeah, I just think that there are opportunities for us to continue to show the diversity in relationships with women.

And I don't know that this is like a one trick thing. We should have more ability to show the drama and conflict and the things that happen in your life that don't necessarily have to be with you, you're screaming and yelling at people needlessly. You know what comfortable feels like both? Do I know what comfortable feels like? Have you ever allowed yourself to get comfortable?

I don't think in a workspace, no. That's what I mean in a workspace. Yeah, I haven't, no. Why not? I don't know. Because there isn't one. You know, not because I haven't no, I don't know Because there isn't one you know not because I haven't allowed myself to but because That's just death You know, it's like if you get too comfortable in the corporate spaces

Somebody's gonna come get you. You know, and I don't think that there's any Nirvana For black people or especially black women in these spaces. And so I'm like, yeah, you always gotta watch your back. So I don't think I've ever been comfortable, no. I'm glad you said that too, because I feel the same way. And I think that sometimes when you get too comfortable, you start to play it safe.

And then that's when I think all of these industries start to die out. Yes. Because you got people who are playing it safe. And my thing is like, they probably gonna fire you if you play it safe. And my thing is like, they're probably going to fire you if you play it safe. But you might as well take the risk

and do something innovative. Yeah. Because if you get fired doing that, at least you feel good about yourself. Well, Sean, I've always said that, look, when I leave a space, I want you to know that I was there. I will never leave a space, and you were just like, oh, was she even here at all?

No, I've got to leave some sort of footprint. And so it's like, how am I going to do that if not representing for who I am and my community and all of those things? Now look, I recognize the fact that it is a burden to be in these spaces and to be the one. And people always, you know, when something happens to black people, they turn to you and be like,

oh, so what do you think we should do? And yes, that is annoying. But at the same time, it's like, yeah, well, maybe that's why I'm actually in this room to actually say the things that are hard to say and the things that they wouldn't know otherwise. And so for me, the comfortability aspect has never really been part of what I have tried to achieve because I know that that's not my destiny. That's not what I'm meant to do. So are you staying in the room to do that?

Because people think you're leaving the show because of the post that you put up on Instagram. I know. Are you leaving? No, I'm not leaving the show. That was about something else. But then my house burned down, so then I couldn't even talk about it.

But. Oh, so you was gonna quit something else? You had an announcement coming in. Yeah, no, I was thinking about like life changes and things I need to do, not about the show at all. Gotcha. Yeah. How will eliminate, well, you see Trump's in office now

and you know, all of these DEI initiatives are getting eliminated all across the country. How will that impact us, black people? Oh, well I mean in a terribly adverse way because everything is cyclical, you know? So it's like you just look at society and culture and realize that things just go back around and around and around. And so we are headed back into like the mid-80s, you know, with the idea that America was only

great when you had, you know, a monolith. Only, you know, a few people at the top who were going to make the decisions. Yeah. And so everything else has felt like you're taking away from that community and from those people. And so, yeah, it's like they're coming back to be like, hey, look, everybody get out. We need to make this country better. And we can't have all of these people telling us what to do.

They're not even the majority. And so until we actually come together as multiples of communities, we're never going to be in power. And so that's the thing that always confuses me. I'm like, I realize that there are challenges for black people that are different from Latinos or different from Asian people or anybody else who's of color, but the challenge is that we can't fight the battles individually.

We really can't. I wanted to know from, we're proud of you as a community from what you've done, what you've accomplished, but you know, some people might not know the educational background and how you got there. So for people that's in your field, that admire you and want to say, damn, I want to even go a notch of what she did. How did you do it? Right.

What is the education? Right. Well, I mean, I have my bachelor's degree. You know, I don't have a master's degree. I decided after my bachelor's that I wanted to jump right into work, you know, that I had the opportunity to go to Spike Lee's advertising agency, which is where I got my start. And, you know I think the the difference with how I did it is that I never thought that a job was too small you know for me to actually like say that again because people I don't think they heard you in the back. And did you get paid at first you didn't get paid at first. Oh God I got paid nothing.

But you know the jobs were never too small. Like I brought my full self to every single job. There was never a time where I was just like you know the jobs were never too small. Like I brought my full self to every single job. There was never a time where I was just like, you know what? When I get into that corner office, that's when I'm going to do da, da, da, da, da, da. No, I did that when I was an assistant. You know, it's like you can ask Spike today and he will tell you that like I crushed.

In fact, like when I was getting inducted into the Hall of Fame, he did an interview and he said he knew then that he would work for me one day. And that happened when I was at Netflix and he got an overall deal while I was the CMO. And so for me it's like, look, there's never been a moment in my career where I felt like I can't wait for the next thing.

I brought everything to the job I had. And so even now as I sit here and doing this show and all that, I'm bringing everything Everything I have you know because I want to be able to have the next opportunity and the next option and the next opportunity Do you know when the job is done? How do you know when your time at a place is? Complete that's a very complicated question. Like I think some of it is intuition You know just feeling like the energy has shifted so but that requires knowing yourself and knowing what it is that you're trying to do and accomplish, you know?

Back to what I was saying about people not cheering for me when I was done with the job and moving to the next thing, because they always feel like they know when you should go. You know, they're like, oh, wait, but you didn't do that big thing, so you should. And I'm like, well, but I can feel it. I can see that either I'm not gonna be able to do it because somebody's in my way or there's something that has stopped me and why stay in a place when you're

gonna have diminishing return it's like at some point you've got to realize that you got to get out when you're on top and that's how you keep at the top you know if you come down towards a decline, it is much harder to rise again. It's much easier to jump from top to top to top. Do you consider yourself an alpha woman? Absolutely, yes. So with being an alpha woman, how is that in relationships?

Do you feel like you have to submit a little bit? Do you feel like you have to fall back a little bit? You couldn't pass that question to Lauren, huh? You couldn't pass that question to Lauren, huh? You couldn't pass that question to Lauren, huh? No, no, no, because she's so successful. No, because when it comes to the Real Housewives franchise. That's out for women, you can relate. No, absolutely.

You know what? No, my wife watches the show, so she's a fan and she loves who you are, so she's always asked, like, damn, I wonder how is that in a relationship, because she's very strong. And she had that question, she also wanted to know, did you feel like those friendships on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills are real friendships,

or do you think it's bullshit? But start with the alpha woman. Okay, so here's the thing. I can't diminish who I am. It's not possible. So yes, I want the soft girl life and the whole thing, and I can have that too. But at the end of the day, this is who I am.

You know, I walk into a room and I demand things. It. But at the end of the day, this is who I am. You know, I walk into a room and I demand things. It is my energy and my aura. And so the need for a partner who is not threatened by that or not afraid of that is absolutely necessary. You know, so it's not necessarily about me dimming or getting quieter or being more subservient is that like who's just gonna match my energy? You know, my mom says every pot has a lid and I feel like now I found a lid How did you know that Keeley because also to not only is he coming and you're like already this super successful marketing Hall of Famer But now he's having to be introduced on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, right?

I've got questions after your late husband as well. Right, yeah. How did you usher him into all that? How did you know he was fit for that job? Right, well also I have to add that like I also respect him a great deal, you know, so that that has to be at the bottom of it, you know, which is like that's where we have to start. I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and so the conversation even telling him that like, hey look, I'm on the show, right? I would like you to be on the show, but let's talk about on whether or not

you feel comfortable doing it. And when he said he did, then I was like, all right, look, you haven't been in the scrutiny like I have. So we're going to have to talk about what that looks like for you. And so to me, it's like there's a responsibility that I have to him, you know, in being my partner, on being on the show, and therefore making sure

that he's also protected. So perhaps that's even where the alpha woman shows up, is that I feel that I wanna be protected by him, but I also feel a responsibility to protect him as well. And as for the relationships on the show, look, I'm the first one to tell you that I really thought that these conversations were played up. I thought it was production. Oh, you thought they were like, producers just make it up.

Yeah. People are like, oh, she talked about you, da, da, da, da. And I was shocked to find out that the relationships are really real. So people get upset about real things, you know, and that you really don't know. It's just like life. Like you don't know if somebody's talking about you behind your back. You do not know that. And so you're making assumptions based on the facts that are given to you. So you might be really nice to somebody, but yet she was over here talking about whatever it is that she wants to talk about you and you didn't even know and so

You see it on screen later and people be like, oh she should have known she was fake and this and that you're just like How do you know that you'd have to be psychic you wouldn't know and so I'm I am continuously learning about The relationships between the women and myself And then also how it appears on camera the relationships between the women and myself And then also how it appears on camera Reunions are gonna be very interesting. That's all I know. Could you have a house husband? Like if it was just a guy who wasn't as successful? No, I don't believe so

Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so He's a nice guy, he looks good, he's putting it down, he cooks, he cleans, he keeps everything. I think it's probably more about mindset and ambition than anything else. I'm way too ambitious, I think, to have somebody who would not want to also be ambitious. I also noticed on the show, they changed a lot on the show. I watched the show with my wife, that's our little thing. But I noticed on the show, when I do do watch it I love seeing them women bow down to you a little bit like they tiptoe around you and you know like you could

everyone's forgotten who runs this valley time to remind them Yellowstone fans step into the Yellowstone universe our family legacy is this ranch. And I'll protect it with my life. Hosted by Bobby Bones, the official Yellowstone podcast takes you deeper into the franchise that's captivated millions worldwide. Action. Explore untold behind the scenes stories, exclusive cast interviews, and in-depth discussions

about the themes and legacy of Yellowstone. You know the first stunt is to settle this valley fight and it was all they knew. Whether you're a long time fan or new to the ranch, Welcome to the Yellowstone. Bobby Bones has everything you need to stay connected to the Yellowstone phenomenon. I look forward to it. Listen to the official Yellowstone podcast now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go to work.

Experiencing the news each day can feel like a journey. With Up First from NPR though, it doesn't have to be. Welcome to 15 easy minutes of breaking news, clarity on international and national affairs, I'm so sick of hearing men talk about women's basketball. If only there were a professional WNBA player with her own podcast I could listen to. Hey, this is Lexi Brown, WNBA player and professional yapper. And this is Mariah Rose. You may know me from spilling the tea on Hoops for Hotties on TikTok. And we've got a new podcast, full circle. Every Wednesday, we're catching you up

on what's going on in women's basketball. And not just in the WNBA, but with Athletes Unlimited, Unrivaled, and college basketball. We've got you with analysis, inside stories, and a little bit of tea. I know you guys have seen a lot of former and current basketball players telling their stories from their point of view.

And I just think it's time for the girlies to tap in. We want to share all of the women's basketball stories that you won't see anywhere else. Tune in to Full Circle, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Welcome to My Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends, Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Each week, we'll sit down with inspiring figures like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen,

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter. And their plus one, their ride or die, as they share stories never heard before about their remarkable journey. Listen to My Legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. This is My Legacy. Tell that they look for your approval. Do is my legacy. You know, because you just don't know. You got to test the water, right? Now, if I come back for second season, I think that would be a different situation. Because now they know.

They know you, right? Right. And they're like, oh, OK. So she's got her opinions. She can stand up for herself. And they'll have a different way to interact with me. I'm sure that's going to happen. How did putting out your book, The Urgent Life, My Story

of Love, Loss, and Survival, how did that being vulnerable in that book prepare you to be vulnerable on reality TV? Oh, that's a great question. It was so hard to write my memoir. It was so hard because I think what happens is that, as I was saying, with grief, you just want to get it behind you. You want to feel better. You want to feel it behind you. You know, you just, you want to feel better. You want to feel quote unquote normal.

And what happens is that we don't realize that the, you put away the sadness and the fear and the anger and all those things, which also put away the happiness and the joy and all the good things that were a part of that. Because your brain doesn't know how to separate any of those things.

And so in writing the book, I had to go get all of that stuff back. I had to be really honest about how I was feeling in a situation or what was my true feelings about the thing in order to write an honest book. And I didn't feel like anyone would connect with it if I was just writing fiction.

And that absolutely prepared me for this particular role because I don't have the need to hold back from my personal life. You know, so much of my life has been about my professional pursuits and so in writing the book I was able to talk about love. I was able to talk about, you know, things that made me cry and things that hurt me. And so now it's like I can do that more comfortably because I've already done it by writing it. How do you, this is a different, back to the show stuff. How does it feel with you and Garcelle?

Like you guys are like the two black women on the show. Yes. Right, you already talked about like feeling like you're there to say certain things that people can't say or whatever the case may be. Does it make you feel like a token? You don't give the energy that you would just be okay with that, but does it make you feel like that?

Do you ever have to be like to producers, like, no, I'm not doing that? Not happening? Oh, yes. All the time. Well, the thing is that I don't necessarily have to tell producers I'm not going to do whatever it is that... because they're not really orchestrating anything. But I know that I'm not doing the thing that perhaps would be expected of me to do. Right.

You know, it's like, I often said that, you know, I wasn't going to come down into the mud. It's like if you have a conflict with me, you're gonna have to rise to where I am. Okay. You know, in order for me to look. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not I'm not having petty disagreements, right? No, it's like I have enough going on in my life that I don't need to go down into like some small little things now You know if there is conflict about what is right and how somebody is perceived or what I believe is like

Indefensible thing. Yeah, then I'm gonna talk about it. Do you feel the need to like do you and Garcelle? I don't know what your relationship is off-camera. Yeah, what is that? Like it's a good relationship Okay, do you feel the need to defend her when certain things happen and she like I know she was going through stuff Well, I did were attacking like I think it was her son or her kid right right right now There's a lesbian common thing if you were dragging her for that with Carl Richards Yeah, see here's the other challenge is that like I feel like I can defend things when I am present. You know, it's like I think it's a very thin line when you start to talk about stuff that you're not present for. I've already said, I was at it publicly that like, if somebody says something about my child, oh man, I don't

know that we'd be we'd be friends today. You know, it's like I don't know that I can get over that. I and I have yet to talk to Garcelle about how she got over that, just because I just felt that it just crossed such a line. And perhaps she is more evolved than I am. Maybe she hasn't gotten over it. She's waiting on her shot. Maybe.

Maybe she's waiting on her shot. I don't know. That's a good point. But I do think that for her and I, I hope that what people are seeing is that there It's a possibility to be more than one type of black woman You know that like ourselves an accomplished actress who has her own life and her own challenges and issues and the conflicts that she's had with the women don't necessarily have to be my conflicts because I don't I don't have those

Conflicts with them. You know, I have I probably my own. And so why is it that we can only have one? Like I really hate the comments when people are like, oh okay, Boz is here, now Garcelle can go. And I'm like, why? Why can't one of the white girls go? Like why has it gotta be her? Why are we pitting she and I against each other? You know, so I'm like, no, there can be more of us

in these spaces without having to be, oh, there's only one type, and that's it. And I know you've experienced that too, being the head of marketing in all these places, because they'll turn to you and say, what does a 17-year-old black guy in Newark care about? Like, I ain't a 17-year-old guy. I don't live in Newark.

I hate that shit. Exactly. We've been in meetings like, so what does a black, 32-year-old black woman in Paterson think? I'm like, how the fuck would I know? How would you know that? Exactly. We've been in meetings like, so what does a black, 32 year old black woman in Patterson think? I'm like, how the fuck would I know? How do you know that? Exactly.

I'm like, that's why you have research. You have research departments. Go do your job. Or just bring some 32 year old black women in here. Or do that. Yes, that part. That's a better answer. That's part of the research though, yeah.

But you're right. Yeah. Now I have one other question. You know, with the fires in LA, who do you blame if you blame anybody? Do you blame the government for not having enough water to city, to town? Do you blame? Who do you blame? Well, God and I have had this discussion because I don't really delve into conspiracy theories

and do all of that stuff now. Look, I think our public officials have a job to do to ensure that the response teams have what they need in order to do the things. But if you saw any video of Los Angeles on fire, you knew that was Armageddon. I mean, it was just, I don't. It looked apocalyptic.

Yeah, it's like I don't know that there was any amount of water that could have saved a majority of the houses you know, it's like people were taking their own hoses and You know like wetting their houses and then the thing was dry in like five minutes because the heat of the fire So I don't know that I lay blame on a human, you know I'm like that's why there's insurance and it's called the act of God. Mm-hmm Now are you still again going back to the show again? You had talked about you're using a platform for stuff like being able to

talk about like fibroids and I thought it was interesting because you mentioned that you weren't in like a dire situation where it's like you're in pain you had to you're just planning because you want to have another kid right? Yeah. How you feeling like today Yeah, I feel really good today. I'm just glad that I was able to talk about that publicly, because I don't know why it is that when we talk about reproductive health, especially for black women, it's like this point of shame.

Yeah. It's like, I don't know how many people sent me messages, commented on the posts, friends who were texting me and being like, girl, I went through that last year. I'm like, why did I not know that? You know, it's like there's some strange shame that's associated with it, as if, like, we're not good enough or that we're not whole women because you have fibroids

and you've got to get that removed in order to have any kind of, we can't reproduce at all. And so I'm just like, wait, but no, this is a health issue. You know, and it's like, if we take care of that, we take care of ourselves, we will be in better shape. And I don't know that there's any benefit to hiding any of that. I think you also brought up a good conversation too, because one of the things you said was, like, I'm not getting any younger, so I'm going to make these plans now.

Have you been having conversations with those same people about you know just you're not getting younger but you do want to have another kid right now and what that looks like for you and how you're planning for that. Yeah I mean Keely and I of course talked about it you know my daughter and I talked about it because you know well they're the two people who be impacted. I don't really care about anybody else's opinions. But for me it was really important to talk about the risks because I did not have easy pregnancies in the past. And so I wanted to make sure that I am in the healthiest place that I can be. And again, thank God that I'm in a position to have insurance and the access to health care.

And we know what black maternal health looks like. It is dire. It's like we're dying at a rate faster than everybody. So for me it's like look I wanted to be able to use this show to talk about health, to talk about my reproductive health, and then also I do think that there is a conversation to be had for the corporate girls who've waited a long time to have their babies. Your baby is 15 years old right? Yeah exactly. You would start all over again right now. Yeah I would and I think that there's a lot of women who are doing that you know, it's like I like I look at a majority of my friends who are in their mid 40s and A lot of them don't have children yet

Some of them haven't gotten married yet either because they were focused on their careers and didn't you know make that commitment or? They didn't find partners who could manage their alphaness, or whatever the reason is, but who want families. And so I'm like, again, there is no shame in that. It's like, you can say it out loud, that I want a baby, or I want a family, and then take the steps to get it. I just think we should remove the shame from it.

So yeah, I'm gonna be an old ass mom, but I'ma do it. You know, I got one, I'll go ahead. I was gonna be an old-ass mom. I'm gonna do it I was gonna ask you mentioned marriage. Yeah, and I know that you know, you've been married before Now you and Keely together. It seems like I saw y'all pictures on your way Is that gonna be is that a conversation for you? Yes, it is a conversation Well, because I I want to have a family in a nuclear unit So I want to be married and then have babies. So we're gonna see an engagement on the show. Look, girl, talk to him.

Where's he at? How do you keep Keely from getting gassed up because of the TV show? Because the camera's in front of him. Getting a little hot now? You know what, I think that, I think I'd probably, if I didn't know that he would be all right,

I probably wouldn't have wanted to be with him in the first place. Because you gotta have a level head. You can't let anybody make you feel like, oh, now I'm a big man on campus. That can't be the way we behave. So I trust that he's level headed enough to take everything with a grain of salt.

People love you one day, they're gonna hate you the next day. You just gotta take it as it comes. Y'all should get the t-shirts, Keely my me and my me and my me. I know. But we appreciate you. I got one last question about DEI. Because to me these corporate DEI initiatives

have always been some BS because the number of black CEOs never increased, the money corporations pledged all these black organizations, they never gave that out. And I think it was easy for them to get rid of them because they never wanted them to begin with. Whoa, yeah. So I keep saying real DEI has to be created by us.

What does that look like? I completely agree. And the other issue, and nobody wants to talk about this, is that the DEI offices never were funded. And so it's like, as a CMO, I had a billion dollars to spend. My DEI partner, chief diversity officer, zero budget. And so you had all these companies and organizations where those officers would have to go asking for money for their projects. Now if I have the ROI on what I'm doing with my money, why would I give it to you? I don't know

what you're gonna do with it and I don't know that you're really going to turn it into more profit because you probably can't. And so how am I going to trace that the money I assigned to you is going to do the thing? So most of the time those DI officers didn't get any money at all. And so I don't know how you succeed. I think the whole system was set up for failure. And so yes, I agree with you in that it does have to start with us. It has to start with executives who are currently

in roles who are afraid to hire black and brown people because they don't want to look like they have bias. And I'm like, no, you should have bias. That is actually your job in that role. So even though like in the roles I never had DEI against my name, I absolutely put that as part of what I want to do, increase the number of my employees and the people on my team who were black and brown or other that I don't have the perspective of theirs and I need it in order to do the job well,

so it just made mathematical and business sense. But also that, you know, we have to look at the other offices and make sure that those folks are also feeling the responsibility of promoting D&I, of doing the work, because once those offices go, don't think that you're safe. That's right. That's right. I got one more show question. Yes. So I know that there was an episode that aired yesterday. Go don't think that you're safe Yes Do you so I know that there was an episode that aired yesterday

I didn't get to see the episode but y'all were at the y'all did like the tranquil spa day. Yes Messages. Yes the serenity soiree. Yes. Do you still feel like Kyle Richards was on BS? Yeah, you know, yeah, so you think she was trying to take old girls husband. No, no, no No, I don't think she was trying to take old girl's husband? No, no, no, no. I don't think she was trying to take her man. What do you think it was? But I do think that she was talking trash about her. I think that she was saying- Well, why even do that?

Like, what is the overall goal then, do you think? Because they were friends, and if you're talking about, like, I'm going to put myself in the shoes because that's how I reviewed it. I'm like, look, if you're going to say something about me, you should just say it to my face, no? But don't go say it to my man and then say that you're going to keep it a secret. And they're separating at the same time.

Yeah, I'm like, so well, whose side are you on? You know, I just think that that breaks the girl code. And in real life, does that make you and Kyle Richards? Now, y'all are at odds or like she? Well, you have to watch the rest of the season. Oh, all right. It's my last fan question. Oh, it's been great. Thank you so much. of season We appreciate you for joining us My boss. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Well, so yes, so by the way when I retired from corporate life

And promoted my book and all those things. I thought they're like, okay, that was it. I'm done But interestingly enough, I like it or not. my hair has always been a topic of conversation in my corporate career. I mean, it's like when I did the Apple keynote, I was the first black person to present technology on that stage, and half of the tweets that night were about my hair. And I have always been an advocate of being able to use the laws and the rules that have been written, whether it's the Crown Act or anything else which allows for you to be fired or suspended from school if your hair isn't

straight or whatever. Those rules still exist on the books. And figure out, well, how can I celebrate that? How can I encourage us? How can I make sure that, yeah, if I want to wear my hair any kind of way I want, let me do it in the way I want to do it. And when I looked at the hair extension industry, 80% of the consumer base is black women or women of color.

Yet we don't have any ownership in manufacturing and distribution and innovation. So I'm like, why is a lace white? Like I could see your lace. Yes, because it's white. You know what I mean? Like why? And look, you could go on YouTube or Google it and you'll find 14 million videos of black women kitchen chemists who are out here telling you how to lay your lace and make the color

like you. And I'm just like, why is that? So I went to China by myself and to the biggest hair show in the world and just walked around and asked questions. And then when I realized that like, oh wait, hold on, this is actually an industry that's making a lot of money, but we're not anywhere in the seats. I was like, well, I'm going to do it myself. I'm going to get in there.

So I built a factory in Ghana. I started manufacturing. And then now I'm selling it to the world. How is it going to impact your business with Trump and the new administration? Well, look, as long as the tariffs are of hold, I'll be fine. But the good news is that there are really great trade agreements between Africa and

the US and the UK, and so I can distribute anywhere I want. What'd you say, you said you built a factory in Ghana? Yeah, I did. That's a flex. The girls should be getting vendor lists. You went and built a factory. No, I built a factory. Because the thing is, I also didn't want to argue with people.

I'm tired of that. I'm like, look, and I used every dime of my own money to build it. And Nasrani investors, I was like, you know, again, I've worked for 25 years. It's like, I have all these stocks and all these companies. It's like, why not invest it in what's gonna help us and what's gonna be better for us?

Of that. Wow, so how did they buy some Eve? www.evebybose.com. Evebybose.com Evebybose.com You have it. Boses and the Sages. Why the name? Based off the Eve from the Bible?

Well, yes, a few reasons. My first child actually did not survive her delivery day. Her name was Eve. And also the Eve in the Bible and the Eve in science all originated from the continent of Africa. That's right. And so I was like, you know what, we are the original woman.

And so we're going to take back that narrative too. Because when I looked at all the pictures for Eve as I was like concepting the brand, all of them were pale and redheaded. I was like, why is that? Where's the black Eve at? So I was like, all right, that's going to be the name of the company. Amazing. Yeah.

Osama St. John, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's The Breakfast Club. Good morning. Wake that ass up. Early in the st. John. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me It's the club. Good morning. Wake that ass up in the morning the breakfast club This week on the R&B money podcast tank and Jay Valentine sit down with the one and only Snoop Dogg I wanted to be here personally to come give y''all flowers and let y'all know y'all doing an amazing job.

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